King James Only-ism: Is the KJV King?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
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Dr. Ehrman's analysis: • Bart Ehrman: What Kind...
0:00 Introduction
3:14 History of the KJV
7:11 Origins of KJV Onlyism
11:00 Sponsorship break
12:01 KJV Translation: Is it good?
20:15 Analysis: Fundamentalism
Bibliography:
Bill Combs, “Beginning of KJV-Only Movement,” dbts.edu/2012/03/09/beginning...
Daniel B. Wallace, “Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible is the Best Translation Available Today,” bible.org.
David Anderson, “The Perfection of English and the Making of the KJB,” PBS Religion and Ethics Newsweekly, September 20, 2011.
J.K. Elliott, “Patristic Evidence in the Apparatus Criticus of a Greek New Testament,” in Studies on the Text of the New Testament and Early Christianity, 55-70.
Mark Heuer, “An Evaluation of John W. Burgon’s Use of Patristic Evidence,” JETS 38/4 (December 1995), 519-530.
Margaret Bendroth, “Christian Fundamentalism in America,” 2017.
David Norton, The King James Bible: A Short History from Tyndale to Today, 2011.
Brenda Brasher, Encyclopedia of Fundamentalism, (New York: Routledge, 2001).
Jon Nielson and Royal Skousen, “How Much of the King James Bible is William Tyndale’s?: An Estimation Based on Sampling,” Reformation, Volume 3, 1998.
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Is there an annotated version or something similar of the KJV that you can recommend? I always prefered the KJV for its poetic style, it somehow always touched me on a very deep emotional level, much more so than the other translations. That's why I would still like to use it as my go-to translation, but it would be nice to have annotations that point out issues or inaccuracies in the text like the ones you talked about in the video.
I love your work sir
Did you include the video lecture by Bart Ehrman? I don't see it in the description.
@@jamesgardner5149 Yeah, I'm curious about that one
I am curious what is your religion? I understand though if you don’t want to answer that question..
Still has my favorite Biblical phrase - those that "pisseth against the wall."
"...he stinketh."
😂😂😂
Where?
*"Against thine wall"
Dafug
I once heard a preacher say of the KJV, "If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me." He said that unironically.
😆😜😝🤔😣🤔
Wow
This might make some sense in the way that if Jesus allowed this version to be the most popular then it is probably the best type mentality but if he meant literally then well...the flaw is pretty obvious here
I suspect he meant as a joke.
@@larrytruelove8659 Sadly...likely not.
The old fashioned language in the kjv is what makes it a powerful text. It adds a layer of separation from contemporary life which in turn lends a sense of mystery to it. Joseph Campbell said something along these lines in reference to the Latin mass in Catholicism. The inaccessibility of the language was what made it feel divine because it took you out of your day-to-day experience. I think the kjv does something similar for Baptists.
It was not the language of the day. The king James was written that way to invoke those feelings even back then.
@@jessec2138 A great deal of it was the language of the day; the major difference was that the translators were communicators who knew how to do elegance in common words.
The greek text is better
Right. This is why Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon in the same language. He wanted his book to “sound” like scripture.
imo for the New testament it would be the Novum Testimonum Gracae. Which is a collection of old sources that are very close to when the books were written
We had a hilarious classroom moment once when a professor got tongue-tied when quoting from the King James said, "Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of the loom".
Word of that got around the campus enough that when the school president was speaking at a special event some time later he made mention of "a variant reading regarding holy underwear". Most of the audience was visitors so they didn't get it, but the part of the audience resident on the campus totally lost it and the president had to pause for half a minute.
Those women really dug the blessed man's Fruits of the Loom!
He must have gotten in confused with the Joseph Smith translation
I’m Greek Orthodox and I’ve had an interesting experience with a Protestant. He was telling me only the kjv should be read because it’s the original version. I said, well, I’m Greek, I read the Bible in Greek, it’s the language the apostles spoke. The Protestant said, well the kjv is based on the original manuscripts , I said, I read the original manuscripts! His brain literally didn’t compute and he said to me again, the kjv is the original bible based on the original manuscripts.
I just said , ok, no point arguing with him. I guess he didn’t know the original language was Greek
What is your opinion of the Orthodox Study Bible?
@@brightbite I use it mainly for the commentary which is very good , however the actual text is not as accurate as it should be and many orthodox doctors and scholars have pointed that out.
One issue is that the official OT of the Orthodox Church is the Septuagint; but the Orthodox Study Bible is based on the Mazoretic.
Jesus disciples spoke Aramaic. Later Christians who spoke Greek wrote these gospels. They were anonymous and in the second century, the church gave them name attributions
Welcome to the wonderful, denial-based mindset of Protestantism.
I don't want to argue as I'm Orthodox too but it was written in ancient Greek not modern Greek. Still compared to KJV its basically 1 to 1 translation
The KJV-only debate is my go-to example if I want to explain to someone with a different background how intense the fights in fundamental Christianity can be. A professor at my Bible college was fired mid-semester because he taught that it's possible for other English translations to be God's word. To be clear, he wasn't teaching that any other particular English translation was appropriate for Christians to study; he was teaching that it's POSSIBLE for another God-ordained English translation to exist.
There was also a fight over whether Jesus' blood sparkled, but I'm not expecting a video on that one.
Yeah I was struck by how many of my sources were from confessional Baptist websites. But Baptist scholars are apparently the most likely to address this topic.
@@ReligionForBreakfast The Bible college I went to (which was Free Will Baptist) was far stricter than the conventions I was used to at my home church, so learning how much stronger feelings were about the KJV on campus was one of many culture shocks for me. But I think you have a point that Baptist scholars might be motivated to argue against the KJVO position because the people most likely to be KJVO are fellow Baptists. The resistance to centralized, hierarchical church structures in Baptist denominations also explains Baptist quirks such as the debate around this topic. My experience has been that most Baptists caught up in the KJVO debate are Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, which prioritize the autonomy of local church leadership. I think "Baptist scholar" is the highest authority you'll find among that crowd because their church structure is resistant to any orders coming from outside the local church.
This shows me that everything is absurd. Just fighting over silly ideas. Adults.
@@daithiocinnsealach3173 nah these are not silly fights it's about life and death
it was really bizarre to me when I first met kjv only Baptists when I went to college, growing up german Lutheran. many of them flat out didn't believe me that king james was a man, that kjv wasn't the first readable ( non Latin) translation ( extra wierd to hear as a Lutheran lol), and that we've discovered older texts since 1600.
I quickly arrived at the conclusion they're uninterested In any type of reality and are just too indoctrinated p.s. im only speaking of my experience with a few members.
they also seemed very culty to me so that was also odd.
We had accurate translations in Deutsch ("german") and Nederlands ("Dutch") well before the KJV even existed.
It's also fascinating that they consider Latin unreadable. Certainly, they (and most people today) can't read it, but at the time the translations were done, it was probably the most readable choice.
@@noyota I'm in the midst of learning Dutch, would you be able to provide me the accurate translations you're talking about?
@@user-bc7cb8uu7e literally only the clergy could read Latin, that may have even been by law. Why do you think the printing press made such a revolution, it's far easier to learn to read your own language than some extinct nonsense.
@silencesfell I know right, then where did the James come from, they're just dull zeolites I guess. They'd get genuinely mad about questions like that I got hit by one girl and definitely had a few guys who I could tell wanted to hit me over some basic questions.
I’m an atheist, I didn’t grow up in any religion, and I know basically nothing about religion. A couple months ago I became curious about religion/Christianity/the bible and found your channel. I am ‘wowed’ by every one of your videos, it’s a whole new fascinating world to me. I think because of my upbringing, my reaction to anything religious or supernatural was to roll my eyes but as I’ve found your videos i have found so much wonder and fascination from the way that religion & Christianity in particular has influenced our modern culture, how Christianity has evolved over time and the anthropological/historical study of the Bible. It’s absolutely amazing that scholars have been able to preserve, and piece together this ancient story. Amazing! Thank you for your incredible research and hard work. :)
The fool hath said in his heart that there is no God...
@@joejacobs3537 lol got em
Knowledge is power. I can truly appreciate that you are not leaning on your own understanding of this world and instead seek understanding.
Surely you see how absurd it is also?
@weebmaster9591 Your lack of research will lead you to believe that.
My mom still laughs bc when I was young, one of our elders told mom and her friends to be careful. We might try to read other versions of the Bible if they didn’t watch us closely. My mom was like ummm yeah we can HOPE our kids are trying to sneak and read their bibles 😂
That is very funny. I'll have to use your anecdote in a sermon sometime.
Hilarious
Love it! 😂🤣
I can't think of anything more terrifying for a parent than to catch their teen reading The Message. Oh, the horror!! 😂
@Fresh off the Turnip Truck It is a horrifying thought...That is a wicked translation...
Once heard a saying "If the KJV is the only word of God, then I sure feel bad for the Chinese"
If the Chinese have the only inspired word of God, then I'm in trouble, since I don't know Chinese.
Whats the deal with calling translations ordained? I mean, if you would go to how it was written, you are going to have to call them interpretations. God loves everyone, why would He exclude people who don't speak a certain language? It's not the style, but the music you play.
I mean, I do see some flaws of the KJV bible. For example: the word "Pneuma" in the Greek version gets translated to "holy spirit", but it is much, much more. It means "breath of life", "Wind"(as in weather), also "God's breath" I think? The Hebrew parallel of the word is Ruakh.
I hate to break it to you, but the "Chinese" HAVE the KJV!!! SO, no need to feel bad. Ther KJV has been translated into THE WORLD'S Languages. And I'm niot a KJV only person!
@@adrienneshearer4284 Why would a fictional book need so many translations? For the 50 or so Chinese Christians that communism didn't convert?
@@ANDROLOMA for the thousands that the CCP kills.
Thanks for this.
A year ago, I left a strict KJVO church and movement. While being in it, I focused my energy in learning the Bible with the KJVO lenses. It led me to become very hostile toward non-KJV.
Now that I’m out, Church and Bible history has become so much better! And I’m probably a better person now.
I appreciate this video and your research. Thanks for sharing. Really helpful in my new journey for truth.
I was involved with a United Pentecostal Church for a couple of years in my teens. They used only the KJV and taught it was the best translation. I remember some of the kids in the Youth Group calling the NIV “The Nearly Inspired Version” 😂 It is my belief that high control groups like this push the KJV so much bc it’s harder for laypeople to understand and easier to twist the words thus you have to rely very heavily on “the man of God” and others in authority for interpretation. It makes it much easier to control people that way.
This is exactly what I believe on the matter as well.
We called it the Nearly Infallible Version
With how cheap phones are and google translate being free + free Bible apps, i dont see how people cant read it and understand. I am not a native speaker but i have read most of the OT in KJV and understand it. The grammar style juat make sense after reading it long enough and some prayer.
Why does it have to be a negative if someone holds to any particular version of the Bible? And the king James version isn't written on a crazy high reading level. It's pretty easy to read. Understanding what you're reading is a different story but that's a different topic, and there are legions of scholars who don't understand the Bible.
Yeah KJV is easy enough to understand but you do need to look up some words occasionally. It's not like Latin
As a non-English non-American, I've always had a difficult time listening to people claiming that the KJV was _the_ God-inspired literal truth, if only because it hinged on a language that is not my native tongue. Thank you for an interesting explanation about the background of this movement.
"because it hinged on a language that is not my blasphemous, demonic tongue."
ftfy
:P
2 Tim 3:16 God inspires Scripture. Focusing on Bible versions is bad advice. Focus on Scripture. Look to the Lord and ask Him to guide you to Scripture and understanding. It is the Lord who divided up the languages. It is not a problem for the Lord to inspire Scripture in other languages. Not all believers speak English only. There are believers all over the world. Scripture is inspired in other languages. You will have to go to the Lord and ask.
@@catdude5567 the KJV is in English, and Jesus spoke English. It is the language of God, and his nation: America. I’m not gonna let some heretic lead people astray. “Believers around the world” better learn English if they wanna save their souls.
@@jakemckeown9459 huh
@@jakemckeown9459 "the KJV is in English, and Jesus spoke English."
And Jesus was an American who packed a Winchester too. There, I think we covered all the bases.
I keep hearing "the KGB bible" and I can't stop laughing.
The Bible who inspired Vladimir Putin I suppose.
@@orzacioan21 Nah, by Felix Derzhinsky and Yuri Andropov.
@@orzacioan21 well vladimir is Russian orthodox
Now I'm thinking of what a KGB translation would be comprised of.
@@PaintedHoundie "And when General Secretary Jesus fortold them the collapse of the Kingdom and the Tsar the Spirit of the Communist ascended upon them and the flames of the revolution appeared over tjeir heads" Stalin 19:17.
In the late 70's I met a young man recently from Eastern Europe. He barely had a grasp of English. Someone had given him a KJV bible and he was stumbling through it. I suggested a more modern translation. He rejected this thought. The KJV was God's version!! Even a translation in his mother-tongue was too suspect. I left him stuck with the KJV and 1600's English. Btw one of my favourite efforts of reaching fringe groups was a Hippy New Testament. Among other things it refereed to the Trinity as "Big Daddy, Junior, and the Spook."! Peace
If people know nothing of what the Bible teaches they need to go to a church, ask questions, join a Bible study etc. the language is t that hard, in many cases KJV is plainer English. I’m not opposed to people using other versions but if anyone is serious about ‘finding’ Jesus, then they shouldn’t find getting help difficult.
To me the interesting thing about fundamentalism is that its characteristics are shared to the point where a Christian fundamentalist and an Islamic fundamentalist have more in common with one another than they have with Christian and Islamic moderates, respectively. The phenomenon isn't limited to religion. Died-in-the-wool members of politcal parties are likewise pretty indistinguishable in terms of their behaviours and resemble one another more closely than they resemble moderate members of their own party. I believe the source of the trouble is the human love for a sense of belonging because the common theme uniting the elements of fundamentalism is a magnification of the "us not them" features of the group. Ultimately what prevails is hostility to any proposition that could water down the group's sense of identity. The most important aspects of the group are the features that exclude because these most strongly reinforce the group members' sense of belonging.
Well said !
It's much deeper than that I believe.Toni's husband
This is the reason why christian fundamentalists in the USA are derisively called "american talibans"
What I find interesting about this being a Baptist phenomenon as a Baptist myself is that at the time of the publication of the KJV, Baptists were being persecuted by the Church of England. At the time, both Puritans and Baptists saw the KJV as propaganda. This is one of the reasons Baptists fought for religious liberty.
the roles inverted when coming to America it seems
What it says is: "If you want to be perfect/teleios, then give everything you own to the poor and follow me [as basically a Jesus-Buddhist monk]." Which some Catholic monks supposedly do to this day, although my sources (very honorable and trustworthy friends who would be kind worded even about their enemies) say they often run schools instead and wear expensive watches and drive expensive cars...with even more riches such as Golden Eating Plates and Utensils if they work their way up the ranks to work at the Vatican in Rome.
Jesus says a future helper will come within their generation before Jerusalem and Rome are laid to waste by each other in that order. Muhammad, the very wealthy camal merchant son of the servant of Allah also wealthy but from Arab priest family money, came around almost 700 years after that. Paul the "late" 13th Apostle has more of a claim of being this "another" than Muhammad.. which Paul DID claim... But Christains do not care about their contradictions and didn't when their families were polytheist (the Arabs were different than the Greeks)... So they see this "other after Jesus and sent by Jesud" as "The Holy Spirit". Religions are just religions because people are just people.
@Shalom Shalom how many times are you going to copy/paste that irrelivent comment?
@Shalom Shalom *Muslim Spotted*
Watching this from an old European country with a Latin/Greek-based language and a Catholic history. It's... weird, to say the least, that a religious text commissioned by a monarch, and translated to a language with barely any similarly to the original texts, is considered "perfect".
If you read the Bible, perfection is found in the end of the thing, not the originals or beginning. For example, Adam and Lucifer were originals from God.
I cant read Greek but I can compare something like an nasb to the kjv, and they are basically the same so I'm not sure what you mean. And for what it's worth the Vulgate and the LXX were both considered inspired translations. I think I've read that is still the stance of Greek orthodox in regards to the LXX. Its still a bogus idea, but not one without historical precedent.
Same here from México
A language with barely any similarity to the original texts? More than 60% of all English words are derived from Latin or Greek roots, sometimes without much change at all. If you wish to know how to speak English, you must also know (to a substantial degree), Latin and Greek.
Not Muslim, but now I know why Islam refuses official translation. Just learn classical arabic 😋
In my experience (growing up as a Baptist and being ordained into the Southern Baptist church) the KJV only movement is not as strong as it once was, but it still has a very firm foothold in rural areas in the South.
so, they don't have proper schools down south??
@@noyota It's the South. Still the American hotbed of racism, poverty, undereducation, and poor nutrition and resultant obesity.
@@noyota no they don’t
For years I was involved in prison ministry.
The average prisoner probably had a seventh or eighth grade reading level.
I gave out a variety of scriptures, the living Bible, good news for modern Man, etc.
I cannot tell you the number of men who came up to me with tears in their eyes thanking me for giving them the scriptures in a easy to read format. All of them had growing up on the king James version and found it impossible to read and understand,
People can argue all they want about the “correct “Bible version. All I know is that thousands of men have come to know the Lord without ever having read the KJV.
So true because coming to God through Jesus Christ it's where you have salvation. What happens after word is called Growth that is why we should sincerely desire the pure milk of the word of God. Well you're not gonna get growth is with lies. Here's a couple lies. Won the ESV second Samuel 21:19 has the wrong person killing Goliath. Secondly take a look at Matthew 18:11, Mark 7:16, Luke 17:36 and compare them to the KJV please, Love to know what you think the differences is in these verses. And at the mouth of two or three witnesses I'm going to include this last one here. Often I will share with Jehovah witnesses and I will ask them if they remember Jesus rescuing the woman caught in adultery, and they clearly do know about that. I ask them what their best Bible translation is and they say they like to use them all but obviously the most modern and most accurate one is the version called the New World translation. It is the pinnacle of Wescott and Horts Greek manuscripts, and even though they're not familiar with wescott and hort they would say the New World translation is the best translation. Then I asked them to go to John eight verse one in read with me.. And to the surprise and to many others modern textual critics don't believe that John 7:53 to 8:11 should even be in the Scriptures.
What is your take seen that Wescott and hort are the prime source for modern textual scholars? Should these verses be included or excluded, for people in prison, like woman caught in adultery.
I took two years of college-level ancient Greek classes in high school, and every so often we'd translate stuff from the New Testament, and sometimes my teacher would have the corresponding Greek text aside a few translations. My classes always preferred translating as literally as possible, as opposed to translating into more fluid English, so we'd translate the Greek as literally as possible (with help from our teacher (who also happened to be really into religion as a scholarly endeavor)) and then we'd look at all the different translations. The NIV, RSV, some others were generally pretty close to our literal translations, just in more fluid English, but the KJV was always markedly different from the literal translation and sometimes just wrong, at least in terms of modern English.
@@SeekingAlfalfa Not sure, but I would expect it was the more academically rigorous, pieced together version. There being only a 1% difference though, I'm not sure it matters much in this case
@@SeekingAlfalfa This video is not meant to promote any particular theology as True, or incite arguments over theology. Notice he didn't actually say whether the KJV is the divinely inspired word of God. The entire channel is about the academic study of religion. Many people are not open to critical discussions of the development of religious beliefs and practices, but that's their problem. Just about every video he does that touches on the Abrahamic religions will upset some people who cannot stand anything that might lead them to question even a tiny aspect of their faith, but that's true of any academic study of Western religion or the history of the Levant.
@@SeekingAlfalfa He studied comparative religion. And although his specialty is in the archaeology of ancient Christianity, I'm not even sure he's a Christian. You can't expect him to go into as much detail as you'd like in a 23min video; you're expecting dissertation-level analysis. His goal was to present a broad historical background of a particular issue. He succeeded in that endeavor.
In my high school Greek class, where we too sought a literal translation, we would reference the NASB when we got stuck while working on homework, and I don’t recall it failing us.
@@SeekingAlfalfa You're worrying about "God's word" when that is not at all what this video is about. The Codex Sinaiticus is confidently dated to the fourth century, making it one of the oldest NT manuscripts in existence. It is reasonable to conclude that it is closer to the original versions than medieval manuscripts. You can decide for yourself whether you want to consider it authoritative for your faith, but that is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. The question is not "which version best conveys God's message," but "which version is most accurate to the original texts?" Like many historical questions, that can probably never be perfectly answered. This channel is not about the Word of God, and I don't see "mobs" being incited.
Ironic, Americans celebrate dunking on the British Monarchy yet read the version written for a Monarch's propaganda!
America is full of contradictions: they also still use the imperial system of measurements when Britain has moved on to metric. They are fiercly proud of their freedom of speech, but you can't say the "f-word" on TV or radio. They are extremely proud of their democracy, but you can lose your right to vote for relatively minor crimes (it only has to be called a "felony" for some odd reason). The country was founded by very religious christians ("one nation under God", "in God we trust", etc.), but it's most devout conservative polititians will actively fight against christian principles in politics - like helping each other (health care), taking care of the weaker brother (social security) or welcoming strangers in need (immigration). [To be fair: you can make this latter observation in many conservative christian polititians all over the world.]
America seems to thrive on this kind of contradiction. From the outside it is fascinating.
@@KonradTheWizzard
Alright the first one isn't a contradiction. The US is far bigger than Britain and it would be of very little use to switch to metric. All science and trade fields already use metric.
Freedom of speech protects you from the government, not private broadcasters who are fully allowed to limit what you say because it's a private business.
Felonies aren't minor lol
in God we trust and one nation under God were added to the dollar and pledge respectively during the cold war, not the founding of the US.
Christian politicians do make policies against their own supposed interest however, that is true. there's a lot wrong with the US, no need to misrepresent situations to make a point
@@KonradTheWizzard from the inside its maddening.
@@kaiden7063 profanity laws were top down, imposed upon 'private companies' by the government.
It's not totally worthless. If you watch the whole video it's between 98-99% in concordance with recent and direct translations (scholarly critical). The level of concordance with the other translations makes the issues between translations somewhat trivial from outside perspective. There's about 5-10 translations in that 99.9% concordance zone.
I wouldn't say that concordance is the measure of a good translation, but I would definitely state that it's a good sign.
Ayyy I was a TA under Brian Wilson, and he was also my thesis advisor. Great professor. He taught an American Religions class, and I learned so much about American religious history just by being the TA sitting in on his lectures. Dr. Wilson is one of those profs that changes you and inspires you to dig deeper. So glad you referenced him!
I was a traditionalist Catholic (the guys who still use the Mass in Latin) for several years and some of my peers preferred to stick to the Douay Rheims translation (which is a bit older than the KJV) out of suspicion of post Vatican II translations like the New American Bible and that was my attitude as well until I left that movement (and arguably the amount of people using that translation is probably way smaller in numbers than the KJV Only movement), I was sort of reminded of that while watching this.
The Jerusalem Bible and Revised Standard Version are pretty good translations. Problem is, Sedes are gonna sede
Fun fact that one of the very early KJV printings, they made a few errors including omitting the word "Not" in one of the 10 commandments. "Thou shalt commit adultery."
Another printing of the KJV had Jesus saying “Go, and sin on more”
Given that a monarch four centuries ago commissioned it, an "error" like that could've been a planned loophole...🙄
@@StudeSteve62 Hahaha, "Whatever you say, Mr. Bible!"
@@StudeSteve62 nah it's known as adulterer's Bible it was immediately corrected
It was a re print of KJV original KJV was a largely faithful translation
@@StudeSteve62 in fact it caused a huge uproar the bibles with this error immediately burned and printing was stopped
And here I am, raised as a german christian with a german bible translated by Luther, shaking my head over all the fuzz.
Also, in bible school, we visited a bible printing museum in which we were shown old bibles with translation errors. Apparently, the people who drew the illustrations did not question the text and thus, illustrated Moses coming down from mount Sinai with 12 horns on his head. (Which was the translation error.)
Statues of Moses with horns are pretty common
I've been humbled by just how much has been learned since my "authoritative" study of the Bible at a conservative seminary which has corrected longstanding mistranslations. The one that has me reeling lately is that for generations everyone has gotten the numbers of people in the Exodus wrong because words meant as organizational designations were treated as numbers. The huge numbers in all translations weren't just unbelievable, they didn't git with the described events -- but with the retranslation based on recent research makes everything fit. Another has me in awe: evidently the first Creation account in Genesis is three different types of literature at once, fitting each genre very well indeed -- a work of genius deserving of respect even from non-believers.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to guess the translation error that gave Moses twelve horns on his head.... I can't conceive of one in Hebrew or Greek. maybe in Latin?
I think Johanna meant "fuss", but "fuzz" is also a good description. Fuzzy thinking is definitely obvious in many comments about this video.
@@traildude7538 it wasn't 12 horns. It was just two. The actual Hebrew word said that his face "shone". And apparently the word for horns was very similar so the mistranslation happened.
Former evangelical, protestant, fundamentalist - your explanation of their beliefs and motivations is accurate. There are some fringe groups but there are exceptions to every rule.
"If the King James Version was good enough for Moses and Jesus, it's good enough for me."
That is what many of them sound like.
Lol...That’s the kind of thing a tent revivalist would say, for sure. Ignorance at its finest.
The kjv is the words of God in its original version. Amen 🙏
It's like in Star Trek VI when someone talked about hearing Hamlet in the original Klingon.
I think I just had a minor stroke.
As a Greek orthodox I find the King James only movement wierd.
As a former brazilian Catholic, I think the same.
@Skydaddy Myth-Busters I bet you're fun at parties
@Skydaddy Myth-Busters lol
As an atheist, shut up. "Designed to project authoritarianism into the dumb minds" it was certainly not designed to this, they geniunly believe this. And everything before you said this was just "They do kinda weird stuff and rituals" and im sure I dont have to say why this is wrong? The only thing I agree with here is brainwashing techniques used by almost all churches
Doesn't the Greek Orthodox church exclusively use Textus Receptus bibles though?
Thank you for a very honest and humble approach to a difficult subject.
The Bishop’s Bible scored 7% on the tomatometer, lol. Man, I love this channel. 😅
My favorite KJV-ism is from the story of the resurrection of Lazarus where Mary says, "Lord, by now he stinketh!"
I love it, the truth, warts and all!
*gathers stones with malicious intent.*
I legit got in trouble in middleschool while I was at my Christian school because I was constantly arguing with my bible teacher who was a KJV only guy
Was that a trend at the school, or was it just the teacher?
@@diegotobaski9801 just the teacher. The school lacked any consistent theology
I got a lower grade in the Bible class at are Christian School for bringing and ESV to class because the teacher was KJV only.
Im still so confused on where this kjv only stuff is so heavily inspired from.
@@PaintedHoundie people just latched into it. I guess in these days they just prefer god to talk in thees and thous
Very good video. Love the way you weave history into your work and can easily explain the driving forces of things like the publication of new Bible versions as material/social phenomenons
No copyright protection. The real magic of the KJV.
It is not under copyright in the United States of America. It is under copyright in the British Commonwealth. The British Crown owns the copyright.
@@tryingnottobeasmartass757 That explains why it is so popular in the US and not in the UK.
So THAT'S why the NIV changes every few years! That makes a lot of sense.
Have you ever looked into the numerical patterns in the KJV ? Here's a few very interesting videos to check:
"SEVENED | God Perfected His Name in the KJB".
"SEVENED - Part II"
"The Author Signed His Work | Psalm 44:4"
"Irrefutable Proof in 60 min: The KJB Superseded Hebrew and Greek"
"New Discovery in FIRST and LAST Verses of the King James Bible! [2023]"
"The 1611th Mention of LORD (And Why It's a Really Big Deal)"
"What on EARTH is going on in Acts 16:11? New Discovery!"
@@GizmoFromPizmo Thats from the ever evolving study of Hebrew, Greek, Samarian, and trying to find English words to convey His true Word.
One of my favorite yarns from childhood is, "Where do you find Shakespeare in the Bible?" The story goes he was one of the translators of the KJV, and was translating Psalm 46 on his 46th Birthday. If you count in 46 words from the beginning, you find the word SHAKE, then count 46 words from the end and you get SPEAR. Does nothing to prove or disprove the translation, but it's more G rated than the wall pissing verses.
Interesting. Got my KJV out to check. Can confirm the above. Sadly, William Shakespeare was not a translator and according to a reliable source knew little Greek and less Latin. Great old story, though.
Fun fact: there's somewhat of a KJV only movement in Mexico... However it's not for the KJV as that's an English Bible, it's for the Reina Valera Gomez translation (which kjv onlyists promote for spanish speakers) and the "main villian" of their movement is the RV60 translation.
Is that the Spanish translation of the King James Bible, or is it a wholly original translation?
@@pennyforyourthots i believe it's a daughter translation of the KJV, but I'm not fully sure.
@@pennyforyourthots Hello, a Colombian here. No, the Reina Valera translation is an original one and the first popular translation into the Spanish language based on the original source languages. It is a Protestant translation, and it was made before the Catholic church agreed with the circulation of vernacular translations and before the KJV was completed. However, the translation (which was done in two phases, each by a different guy, namely Casiodoro de Reina and Cipriano of Valera) has some noise from the KJV, because it is based on the Masoretic text and also on the textus receptus. The language it uses is not as elegant as the KJV and has never been as popular because Spanish-speaking countries have been mostly Catholic. Some Spanish speaking protestants have also tried to copy the KJV only-ism with the Reina Valera and denounce any attempt to update its language (Spanish-speaking Protestant churches are heavily influenced by American fundamentalist churches). That movement made a weird merge of the Reina Valera version and the KJV and created the Reina Valera Gomez (adding to its name a third translator), but that version is popular only among very few people. (sorry for the long comment and the bad English).
@@camilorodriguez5560 I'm talking about the Reina Valera Gomez not the other Reina Valera ones. The Gomez came out recently in 2010 while the previous ones came out long before that, and even long before the "modern era and technique" of translations we see today.
@@camilorodriguez5560 oof I didn't see that you mentioned it before I made that comment
I grew up KJV only Baptist. It’s weirdly prevalent. I know ours hinged on the idea that the KJV was the only version that was translated from Greek and Hebrew manuscripts where others were just updating the language into more modern English without considering the original languages. My parents fell out of the belief upon finding versions like the NASB and ESV which also used manuscripts in their translations and are better for understanding and readability. They still quote using KJV because that’s what they memorized though haha.
And that belief is so factually incorrect.
There are definitely instances of modern English translations changing stories. I was just at a Baptist checkup at the pastor was talking about the how in the Bible they have in the pews, they changed a word from present tense to future tense in the story of Zachius and or completely changed the context and meaning. The King James has it correct. He uses the original Greek as a point od comparison.
Just being the Bible study beforehand there were other instances of translations changing the meaning of the stories too I could see from someone else reading a modern English translation and me reading the King James. Sure, the other bibles are not herasy, but there is a good chance they are not as accurate either.
@@comput3r have you even watched the video you're commenting under?
@@comput3r I wonder if you realize how much this comment and your choice of words is telling people about you. Not in a good way.
@@comput3r check your pride my brother, have humility. Pride is what led to the fall of man, don't let it be your downfall too
So fascinating. Really great video. One of my favorites of yours.
"All I Know Is That If The KJV Was Good Enough For The Apostle Paul, It's Good Enough For Me!" er...
I say this all the time! Hahaha
That's like my visit to a Baptist church when visiting my grandfather, where one man shouted out "English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!" and got many "Amen"s and nods from the congregation. Small town west Texas.
@@kathryngeeslin9509 How does that old saying go? Something about:
"My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge."
Sad, Skeeerwy, Frustrating, but ultimately a SOTTimes - Fortunately, He soon brings this evil age to a close -
Thanks for the shout back - Take Care!
@look2thesky
who said that? Jon Snow? ("You know nothing, Jon Snow")
Wow, the poster at 0:41 even has Nestle-Aland among the rubble. That isn't even a translation, but an edition of the New Testament in the original Greek. Just wow.
Oh, they hated Nestle, Aland, Wescott, Hort, and the others who produced the early critical editions of the Greek NT. Nestle-Aland was the main challenge to the Textus Receptus in the 20th century.
My thought exactly. It reminds me of the meme of an Evangelical telling an Aramaic Catholic how he doesn’t live according to the original Christians.
Didn't you know that Jesus and the apostles spoke Elizabethan Englische?
@@jaqian He probably spoke with a Tennessee accent as well y’all
To be fair Mao was also on the list so I don't think they put much thought in it
As a collector of Bible versions in print, for this and many other reasons, I love this video.
I wish you had mentioned the role of "charismatic" Christianity in this KJV Only idea and the connection between American denomination inflation and "American exceptionism"/manifest destiny thinking.
Seems "KJV only" is much more prevalent in the US than in the country of King James', the UK.
I just bought a NRSV Bible with apocrypha cause apparent it's the easiest to understand and the closest translation. Not even religious but it's had such an impact on humanity I figure it should probably be read at least once.
It's not the easiest to understand: the NRSV is written at a high school reading level (similar to its sister translation, the ESV), whereas something like the CSB, NLT, and NIV are written at a junior high reading level (and some translations even manage to hit a 3rd grade reading level). That being said, it is indeed the most reliable translation.
@@MAMoreno Ask me to show you why NIV is seriously biased, the worst by far I have seen.
@@ralphgoreham3516 Oh, I'm well-aware of how biased the NIV is, especially in the 1984 edition. The 2011 revision toned down the problems quite a bit, but the earlier edition was quite infamous for importing inerrancy apologetics into the text rather than translating the words honestly. (And that's not even getting into its subtle anti-Catholic translation choices, which are still mostly present in the current edition.)
@@MAMoreno I did not know it had a revised edition. Thank you for the info.
I love reading the Apocrypha because it's ridiculously easy to see how they don't fit at all with the rest of canon scripture. The additions to Daniel where he becomes Sherlock Daniel, mystery solver extraordinaire are probably my favorites.
I grew up in a hardcore kjv only cult (independent fundamental baptist). I'm so pumped for this video.
Edit: many fundamentalist believe that the KJV overshadows everything else. Some extremists believing it is sin to study Greek and Hebrew. And some saying translating the Bible is useless and instead we need to teach people everywhere to read English instead. I also met some people who were "translating" the KJV into Spainish because the Reina Valera wasn't based on the KJV.
Unfortunately the IFB online community is actually growing greatly...
If you don't mind me asking, what's their stance on the many non English speaking Christians that therefore have no chance of reading KJV at all?
Though I wouldn't call it a cult, just a denomination that has foolish philosophies.
@@amerigocosta7452 well I know I'm not him, but 99% of KJV onlyists think that non-english speaking christians should read their own language, BUT they should use the Textus Receptus lines of manuscripts that the KJV used.
@@amerigocosta7452 in general their bibles are "ok" but not as good as the KJV. If the language translated from the "correct" texts (masoretic and TR) then they were fine. And in a few rare cases, as I said, non english speakers should learn English so they can read the bible.
A well-balanced and level-headed presentation. Thank you very much!
I would love to see one of those vídeos explaining more about the history of the Portuguese Almeida translation!
Growing up in a baptist family and a baptist preacher grandfather, I totally understand that they preferred KJV. However when we moved and went to a baptist church that used NIV I felt like I could understand so much better. My mom had gotten a study Bible that had 4 different translations. I find it to be so interesting and learning the original language is so important understanding the Bible, how it can effect the way we read it and apply it to our lives.
baptists are hands down the worst denomination
@@seniorvenusdigital3904 Baptist is hands down the best denomination
@@seniorvenusdigital3904 eh.... they are pretty tame compared to Evangelicals. It really depends on the church tho and the people running it. I had a great teacher growing up but I may have been lucky.
@@jonunciate7018 evangelicals and baptists are, the majority of the time, the radicals who make everything political or amplify general nontruths
@@coolandhip_7596 no
When I visited the US I was surprised by the number of Americans who were convinced that the Bible was originally written in English and that all the versions in other languages were translated from KJV.
In what context did that pop up?
@@Eddies_Bra-att-ha-grejer It was really bizarre. I was in a fast food restaurant in Georgia with a friend and a random xenophobic guy complained about my accent (ftr, I grew up in Britain and I have a thick Northern English accent) and told me to speak English "like in the Bible". I was quite confused and my friend, who is from there, explained to me that was a common misconception. I'm a linguist so I'm absolutely into this stuff, so I started asking people I met what language the Bible was written in and, much to my surprise, quite a few answered that was English.
@Uncle Pete They got taught that crap IN primary school (or sunday school, which often was the one they listened more attentatively to)
In my experience, this belief is held by people who may be intensely religious, but either do not attend church services beyond maybe Christmas and Easter, or belong to a "non-denominational" church that is lead by someone who is not an ordained minister. I'd like to believe that it's pretty rare, but I cannot say. I have almost never experienced this in my daily life, but it may be more common in the bible belt and I just tend to stay away from there.
Sadly, I would not been surprised but interesting observation by you.
One of the best videos I have ever seen thanks Andrew
Thank you for this informative discussion.
Wow, imagine getting people to believe that your preferred translation is the right one by telling them it was divinely inspired.
... I wonder if it occurred to them how many new religions / sects / cults get fabricated in that way.
What KJV-onlyists don't understand is the KJV has become the focus of their belief system. The Bible calls that idolatry.
@@baltichammer6162 If it's the divine word of god, given to man to know his message, it can't be idolatry.
@@rainbowkrampus It absolutely can be.
@@rainbowkrampus God supposedly set out a few things that people were supposed to leave alone (ie the fruit of the tree of knowledge). So yes, god can make an idol that we aren't supposed to idolize.
But much like asking if Adam and Even had belly buttons. We must first prove that Adam and Eve existed.
So the argument is moot until the existence of the christian god can be proven, that divine inspiration is possible, and that it was specifically the christian god that inspired it, and not some other supernatural entity messing with us.
In the meantime the obvious default is that people merely said it was divine inspiration to manipulate their followers.
@@PracticalBibleStudies How do you show that to be the case here?
Way back when I was doing religious studies at school, we had about three or four different english translations to pick from. Granted I went to a catholic college, so we did shocking things like comparative studies, and learning about ancient Greek and Roman philosophy...
I like to imagine you did the same pose in your profile pic when you were doing comparative studies lol
Excellent summary, in digestible form, of how the KJV came to be. I read all this before, but you clarified it beautifully.
A pastor I know said “you shouldnt read the King James Version of the Bible unless you know what the phrase “Wherefore art thou Romeo?” means”
Basically the word “wherefore” meant “why”, so Juliet was really asking “*why* are you Romeo?” not “*where* are you Romeo?” like a lot of people assume because of modern English. If you can’t understand Shakespeare, you shouldn’t read KJV
The first octavo version of the King James Version (1612) contained a funny printing error: "Printers (instead of "Princes") have persecuted me without cause" (Psalm 119.161) (Oxford Guide to Ideas & Issues of the Bible, a very interesting book btw). You would think that God would also make sure that the people who print bibles don't make mistakes if he bothers to inspire the translators.
a very apt mistake in context
Either that or he has a great sense of humor.
Take a look at a (scholarly) Greek New Testament sometime -- one of the most striking things is what's called the "critical apparatus" in fine print at the bottom of every page showing the different ways we've found verses written. Yes, by far they're mostly simple things such as transposed letters, missing letters, extra letters, different ways of spelling a word, missed words, and so on, but for those who expect that God would make sure His written word was handed down perfectly it's very unsettling.
The proper question is "Why did God allow all those bloopers?" since He is in charge and didn't prevent them. My answer is simple: it's to keep us humble, to remind us we trust a Person and not a book.
Being Roman Catholic in the American South I saw a lot of this King James Only-ism...I also saw quite a bit of it in Kansas...
It's funny, because Roman Catholics on the West Coast (at least, in my area of California) regularly had other translations in stock and wouldn't bat an eye.
Its stupid and severely misguided
@@tonystout1545 The king james bible is PERFECT. Jesus loves you! Read Numbers 5. Read Genesis 40. Read John.
I was raised southern Baptist and we always used the "hard core southern Baptist" version aka HCSB-Holeman Christian Standard Bible
I remember going with my grandmother to her church when I was young and hearing everyone go on about how King James was the original Bible and that's actually how Jesus spoke. I didn't even bother to argue. Can't debate total ignorance I guess.
@silencesfell true there was no internet, but somehow I managed to know some history before it existed. And I know the pastors who went to seminary knew better. Just another way to keep the masses ignorant and unquestioning.
@@EmpressMermaid how did even that happened? Bible made it clear that the events of the book happened in the middle east(Isreal, egypt, Babylonia...... )
@@dragonfire3727 Because some people believe what they choose to believe and only know what they choose to know. Sadly my grandmother came from a society that unquestionably accepted whatever the pastors told them. Yes, the pastors knew better, but they had a vested interest in keeping everyone ignorant.
I'm just glad that my dad managed to find his way out of there before I was around.
@@EmpressMermaid but it's written in the Bible that jesus was in Jerusalem how you grand mother didn't see that??if she read the Bible then she would surely know example :"So when he came to Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him, having seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the feast. For they too had gone to the feast".John 4:45
@@dragonfire3727 Again, she only knew what she chose to know. She also came from a time and place where most folks were minimally educated and barely literate, so she knew very little of the world past her own front door. She was born in the backwoods of Alabama in 1919 and only attended school for 4 years, so that was her entire world. Middle Eastern ethno-geography was not part of her knowledge base.
Not saying this to excuse her ignorance or say it was right, but that was simply her reality.
To listen to some real hard KJV onlys the KJV takes precedence over the Hebrew and Greek it was originally written in. The KJV has an advantage in that theres no copyright fees, which makes then cheaper to produce than many modern translations.
You may like to Google "What scholars have commented on the New World Translation. You will be surprised.
@@ralphgoreham3516 I know the JW's have a pretty good translation from a scholarly aspect. It gets evangelicals foaming at the mouth though. It can be argued that the the NIV is biased towards an evangelical standpoint. But whats this to do with KJV only ?
@@stephentaylforth4731 NIV Mono genous yios = Only begotten son. All 5 times Begotten has been omitted. Rev 3:14 Says arche there means ruler of Gods creation whereas John uses arche 38 times and nearly everyone of them in every bible I know it says The beginning of Gods creation, John 1:18 they have added "Who himself is God. duh! I have to hand some 50 translations but the most tampered with is NIV. There is more How many times they have translated "auto" as he him whom, instead of it, itself. I,d say at least 50 times. (I Know most of the 100s of other versions do that to. )
@@ralphgoreham3516 OK, Ill grant all that so again, whats this to do with kJV Only ? So were clear, I.m an atheist who thinks the only use the Bible is is as an insight into how ancient middle eastern people thought#.
@@ralphgoreham3516 "most tampered with" ... LOL you are aware that KJV was based on a catalogue of demands and doctrines said King James wanted ABSOLUTELY to be shown in "his" bible... and the translation committee delivered pretty much any single one. If that isn't tampering, idk what language you even speak.
Raised and use to be Mormon, and attended a Seventh Day Adventist school for a few years, so I’ve got a special place in my heart for the KJV...and I’m an atheist! It’s a good piece of literature and an interesting historical topic. Thanks for taking the time to go through the KJV Religious For Breakfast!
Nice to see an atheist with an interest in religious materials.
I grew up non denominational. Not KJV only but that was the main bible. Atheist now though still very interested in the stories and practices of religions.
@@xx-knight-xx2119 religion would make a good tv show if done right.
@@humanity600 there are many of us, as we generally study various religions during our crises of faith
@@shinobi-no-bueno 😎🤝
1611 was also the year of publication of John Speede's Map of Britain.
Brits don't rely on it for directions any more.
Also, King James, this go-to guy for biblical truth, was the most flamboyantly homosexual king in British history.
I have added a number of comments here and in reply to others in the debate from the perspective of a British historian who can give insight into how what we call the Authorised Version came to be which I fear a lot of people have misunderstood. I love Andrew's work and this is one of his best. As far as I am concerned, he can gives us religion not just for breakfast but for lunch and dinner plus anytime snacks!
I like how it’s so poetic, but because it’s so poetic, I can’t believe people think it’s the most accurate translation
It’s just old.
It actually only sounds 'poetic' because it's close to Shakespeare (less than a century). In Jacobean times it was the vernacular.
@@thealternativeulsterman It's more archaic than Shakespeare. The writers felt they needed to use more formal or high-sounding language to translate the scriptures. Easy enough for a bunch of elderly clergymen: how they wrote may have been close to how they spoke in their sermons.
To be fair, the original Hebrew was poetry. It was just very different from modern langues poetry
The reason for the demise of thee/thou was that it began to be used as an insult. While superiors were to be addressed in the plural you, deliberately using thou insulted their position and demeaned them. This increased until it was perceived more as insulting than being familiar. The reason we create alternative plurals, like y'all in the US, and yous in Belfast English, is that there is a vacuum of confusion using you for both singular and plural now.
Andrew, I found this one to be the most fascinating video you've done so far. I was raised in an environment where the KJV was the only version not considered questionable, and everyone in the church used it, usually in the Scofield reference edition--which, by the way, would make for another interesting video, as well as one on biblical Dispensationalism. One thing about fundamentalism is that anything that is believed must be believed 100%--there is no room for doubt and little room for discussion.
The channel called Renegade Cut did an amazing video on the history and complete historical insanity of rapture theology/post millenial dispensation etc with a focus on the wacky importance of the Left Behind fiction series and how much it's impacted American Christianity whether spiritually or politically
@@thishandleistacken Thanks. I hadn't heard of that channel before but it looks interesting and I just subscribed. I was not able to locate the video you referenced. Can you help me find it?
@@BruceM8 yup here ya are: th-cam.com/video/hRxN1DXmSdA/w-d-xo.html
@@BruceM8 Oh just to add to that the channel is certainly interesting and while I'm a Leftist he's probably a little farther Left than myself and we don't agree with everything... all the same I enjoy his content but especially that one video which is truly fantastic. Again the link is this: th-cam.com/video/hRxN1DXmSdA/w-d-xo.html
The best religious TH-camrs though are the academic ones of which I'd recommend: Religion For Breakfast (obviously as we are here), ESOTERICA, Let's Talk Religion, Angela's Symposium and Seekers of Wisdom.
Esoterica is my favorite Dr Justin Sledge is an amazingly well informed and talented teacher. Let's Talk Religion is a close second with Religion For Breakfast being an even closer third
@@thishandleistacken Many thanks for the link and for your recommendations!
Very interesting discussion of American Fundamentalism at the end there - thanks.
I tried reading the King James Version and i had a lot of trouble with it. I ended up with the New Revised Standard Version with Apocrypha. Its much easier to read and understand for me
Tbh I really like your breakdown of this I’ve long been looking for the best translation. One of my issues is the omission of some texts some versions have. I try to use interlinear bibles for study but just reading you kinda don’t wanna have to do that
I see your view and just want to present this. Is it omission, or is the other version adding? I use ESV but have a KJV NT at my workplace. I think both are great, prefer the ESV. But I've had KVJ only people say the verse Rev. 22:19 to me which says "and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life..." and they say this as to why the ESV is bad because its "missing" verses. But in Rev. 22:18, one verse prior it says "...if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book" So it says not to add and also not to take away. Both are equally bad. Most modern translations will have footnotes of the "missing" verses, but plays on the side of not including them in the main text because we are commanded not to add, and since they're in the footnotes on the bottom of the page, nothing is actually taken away.
0:53 I usually try to respect people's religious beliefs, but, sorry.... I found this hilarious.
Lol same
I didn't find it really comical, but did do some eye-rolling...
It's some delightful idolatry
Yeah really
@@sharpe3698 geez, right? I actually gasped out loud.
Uh oh, you showed a clip of Kent Hovind, he's gonna have to whack his spongebob toy
what? is this something he does?
@Shock Yes
They let him have a Spongebob toy in prison? Last I heard he was still in jail for cheating on his taxes and Florida was about to charge him with something similar on the state level
@@shock_n_Aweful Part of his "wack-an-atheist" bit. Don't worry though, none of his arguments have changed since the early 90s.
@@erwin669 He was in jail for preaching Genesis and the Word of God in Jesus name! He was PERSECUTED by the world for teaching Genesis! That makes him the leading expert on preaching against evolution. He is blessed! That's why in "tax case", they desperately wanted to confiscate his video on the evolution religion, th-cam.com/video/kqCx2j9Ig1I/w-d-xo.html
One important fact that you missed is that for a long time The KJV was in every room in hotels and motels! That's a great way to spread it around!
The KJV-only movement is just baffling for anyone who's been raised Catholic, even if you are lapsed like me, because having multiple translations and versions of the Bible at hand is just the norm, and new versions are published with relative regularity. Not to mention that holding one particular translation of the Bible as the one and only goes againt the very spirit of Protestantism and the push for translating it to every language and dialect. How could it possibly be that this very specific translation to one particular language be the end all be all?
Because it's the only way literalists/fundamentalists can get around the very contradiction of holding one book as the sole truth/absolute truth, though the book itself is made up of hundreds of sources spread over the course of centuries. It's a deliberate agenda, in the end, to control discourse and affix any interpretation to a very limited source, one that happens to be in English. Unsurprisingly, there is a direct correlation between evangelical fundamentalists and the projects of white supremacy,
@@comput3r Well you certainly sound like the kind of intelligent, well-informed person with whom you can have a nuanced conversation.
We have something similar going on in the Netherlands, where we have the 'Statenvertaling' from 1637. Some churches stil hold on to the original while there are several revisions.
Ik vind de katholieke Willibrord vertaling het beste in Nederlands.
Has anyone make a Bible version tier list?
All Fs
I like the ESV. If I come across a verse that doesn't make a lot of sense I'll pull up the NASB and NKJV on my phone. I've never noticed a significant difference.
Da Jesus Book is S Tier
Most translations fall somewhere on the scale between two translation styles: dynamic and formal equivalence. ▪︎Dynamic equivalence (sense-for-sense translation, eg. NIV, NLT) tries to translate the *intended meaning of phrases* & focuses on the _readability_ of the passage (the flow of language & easy to understand) - for example your average Joe may not understand certain idiomatic expressions from that time, so these translations take the liberty by simply stating the phrase's meaning or by providing you with a modern equivalent. ▪︎With formal equivalence *(word-for-word translation,* eg. NASB, NRSV, ESV) the words are translated more _literally,_ this is typically preferred among scholars & better for serious Bible study.
In my opinion, the *ESV* is a great translation for the average person, it reads well & is quite literal. The *NET* is a nice compromise between the two styles (with the added bonus of having tonnes of insightful footnotes). Just stay away from _paraphrases_ such as "The Message" and "The Passion" translations, those are pretty awful.
Lots of people, but Google Dave Wallace, who was named dropped in this video. Her has a video explaining his preference. Keep in mind the differences are mostly for your benefit. Find one you like and read it regularly, keep others for when you are puzzled by a verse.
I’m a Seventh-Day Adventist and was brought up in a quasi-sorta SDA home. They were KJV only-ists, so that’s what I was brought up on. If only I had access to more modern versions, it might have changed my life sooner. I was never a fan of reading some language I wasn’t that familiar with. It became a matter of what were they saying, and how do I interpret that into plain English. Today, I’m still a Seventh-Day Adventist, and I rarely refer back to the KJV. I prefer the NKJV and many of the newer translations, primarily because of our greater knowledge from more recent and older manuscript finds, like you mentioned. There is much bad theology built into most English versions that seems to have started with the KJV and continued, but not with all versions. For example in 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, most versions leave you believing that once you die, you go straight to heaven. But not with the Voice, and The Living Bible. Those 2 correct have it that you die, and at the resurrection, which to you will be immediately, you put on your new body, and are given new life. Jesus in Matthew said that nobody has gone to heaven, and in Acts 2, it is told that king David hasn’t gone to heaven yet because his tomb (of his bones), are still with them. Paul preached much about waiting for the resurrection. The belief of a soul going to heaven at death doesn’t come from correct translations of the Bible, but are based on pagan religions from the past.
I do not have a favorite version, but several versions I refer to, such as New King James, NIV, Voice, AMPLIFIED, Young’s literal translation.
I had a leather bound KJV with 24k gold edged pages that I threw in the trash. It was a gift, I'm probably cursed or something now. But, so far I haven't been struck by lightening, or anything! ⚡️
Extraordinary how the most passionate around any issue seem to go to such great lengths to alienate potential, or even actual, allies, isn't it...
KJV-only devotees could be seen as doing something biblically naughty, too: "worshiping the creature rather than the creator"...
Excellent video.
Quite the golden calf
You can give that reason for anything. For example, most religions believe in God or gods, so why not just join up in an ecumenical religion of a one world God? There are many people claiming to be the Messiah, so why not just join up? No, there is one God, one Jesus, and we take it to its logical end, there is one Bible.
to steal a concept from Flat Earthers "reification fallacy" ;) (turning the model mistakenly into the reality you try to describe)
@@SamGarcia Yes there is only one bible...
And it's not the KJV, it's the Bible in it's original languages of Hebrew and Greek.
@@k-techpl7222 God hates anything original. Original Adam, sinned. Original Lucifer, sinned. Originals suck.
The KJV is lovely as a bit of literature and hugely historically important, but it is not the best for the faith formation, catechesis, or intellectual development of a serious Christian. It is strange to me that that's a controversial statement to anyone.
What's a serious christian?
@@rainbowkrampus I assume that it's those similar to someone who learns something once and all know everything as not serious. Since, you need to do act cross reference, ask your own questions that would give you doubts also be intentional and proactive about your faith; hence "Serious Christian".
@@rainbowkrampus assuming it’s referring to people that want to understand as much as possible, thus needing to be serious about knowing why you believe what you believe. So they would look across different translations to grasp the true meaning
Your use of the term "catechesis" makes me think you might lean towards the New American Bible Revised Edition
Rainbow Krampus the opposite of casual christian, in the middle there is normie christian.
have to watch this guy on .25 speed to understand.
When you slow it down and listen tho, its pretty goooood
When I became a layreader (read old testament and epistle during the service), I learned that some translations are good for study and some are good to read to the congregation. I think the KJV had better writers than some modern translations.
The small group I am in is studying Exodus. I am using the standard American Jewish translation with lots of foot notes quoting ancient learned Rabbis. The footnotes are interesting.
Forget the footnotes. Get a king james bible and believe. Read Numbers 5. Tell me what you see.
Try Benjamin Tsedaka's translation of the samaritan torah. It's interesting.
Calling Kent Hovind simply a "Baptist Apologist" is the greatest understatement I've heard on TH-cam so far this year.
@Skydaddy Myth-Busters He's always Inmate #06452-017 to me.
@Skydaddy Myth-Busters you are too kind to him. He is a heritic and a cultleader who has drank his own coolaid. I grew up with him as my "science" class. He is... Someone we should remove him.
He's either a brilliant conman or possibly proof that evolution is sometimes a two way street.
@@ManahManah77 Nah. It's both. I have come to believe that the best course is to ignore him.
@@alanthompson8515 It would be easier to ignore him except for the fact that he influences so many people to believe things that are proven false while at the same time convincing them that what is true is the real lie. I admit I'm a bit more passionate about it because I live in the middle of it here in the south, and my own dad is just about as bad as Hovind.
This is an incredibly important video and I hope it gets many more views (and likes)!
I first noticed the issue of bible translations when I did Hebrew at university; my teacher gave me Bibleworks, and for a short paper on Isaiah 14:34 I looked at the available translations. Which absolutely blew my mind.
As a philologist, I remain absolutely stunned by the idea of the KJV as "the ideal bible".
Thank you for going into detail on this phenomenon, learned a lot!
you may like to Google "What scholars have commented on the New World Translation", You will be surprised
Read Numbers 5.
Do you mean Isaiah 34:14? Chapter 14 only has 32 verses.
Woe! To those who changed God's word
I went to a Christian missionary boarding school and there was a this outreach program from some other church and they were distributing free bibles to students, but despite many of my classmates being Christians they never signed up for it and i had asked them why and they told that it was Kjv and that it’s not their church’s bible
Isn't there a "stronger" version of the King James Only movement that argues that it's not just the best TRANSLATION, it's the ONLY TEXT that should be read at all. People like Gail Riplinger oppose the study of Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.
It's almost as if they believe that King James was divinely inspired to bring his Bible down from that mountain in the picture: Mount Ararat? Maybe he translated it with the help of magic spectacles, like Joseph Smith used for his golden Egyptian plates? They certainly don't want to look at the Ugaritic and Babylonian originals of the Old Testament stories.
@Alpha Omega The "King James Only" crowd are kindred of the "British Israelites," in that they go in for selective study of their text but are not so keen on actual scholarship. They are not aware of how much of the American Civil Religion they have absorbed, e.g. "Manifest Destiny" has extended from the US conquest of the Philippines to conversion of the world to Baptist Christianity.
@Alpha Omega
As a black dude. I really hate the Black Hebrew Israelite movement. Its just taking advantage of people who have neither the time nor the education to look into their claims. Then there's the people who are looking for something to validate their own existence and BHI groups do exactly that.
All their arguments are complete nonsense.
But hey, that's religion for you.
I assume that image at the beginning of this video is an expression of that "stronger" form of KJV-onlyism. It doesn't just show translations in the discarded pile but also books titles "Nestle" and "Aland", with Nestle-Aland being the major critical _Greek_ edition of the New Testament.
Yes, there is a faction that believe the King James actually corrects the original Greek. I want to say that's blasphemy but it certainly is heresy.
Peter Ruckman taught that God himself gave the KJV translators the exact words to use.
Nice to know you share my preference for the NRSV. I got my copy of the NRSV because I wanted to read the Apocrypha but the more I learned about the philosophy behind it, the more I liked it.
This (imo) really summarized why separation of church and state is 100% A MUST!
Every translation of every text of every religion is written through self serving, power grabbing filters.
Great video
Not so sure about that. Martin Luther had to go into hiding to finish his translation. I don't think he was in it for a "power grab". However there are a ton of other problems with Luther's teachings, especially the rampant antisemitism and later on he was indeed on the side of the people in power when the the peasants tried to revolt against their dire conditions. Since Luther did at that point believe that people should obey all worldly authority. (Which he took from Paul's letters.)
He wrote that the peasants and farmers rising up to revolt against the monarchs should be killed. I think he later regretted that statement however.
At first I thought it was silly for people to get so passionate about which translation is used, but then I remembered that I consume a considerable amount of Japanese media and that translation/localization can cause equally big schisms in the gaming and anime communities.
This is why I sometimes like to joke that Japanese is basically a holy language to some really passionate anime fans and those who like dubs are treated as heretics (also I've become interested in Shinto as a result of my consumption of anime so I do sometimes watch livestreamed rituals I barely understand out of curiosity), I used to be part of a very conservative interpretation of Catholicism that insists that the Mass should still be in Latin like it was before the 1960's so whenever I see something like this I'm reminded of what I used to be.
In a conversation with an evangelical, I brought up the ending of Mark not found in early texts and the addition lines of the Lord's prayer (not used in the Roman Catholic church) as examples of how the Biblical text has changed over the centuries. He must be a KCJ only as he said he would no longer discuss with someone who does not believe in the "Sacred Word of God"!
You can't reason with evangelical Protestants.
@@TheDesertRat31 no, you can't reason with some people
Additional lines of hte Lords' prayer? IF you mean the phrase "The Kingdom and the power and hte glory are yours now and forever", they do include that line during mass.
@@michaelflores9220 But only since Vatican II. It does not necessarily needs to be used.
@@TheDesertRat31 I'm an evangelical protestant, well...on file atleast (haven't gotten around to de-register from the Norwegian Church, which is ....OK, more money for them to upkeep old and interesting building)
But my point is the Norwegian clergy is as far as I can judge a pretty mellow bunch.
Thanks for this. Well done sir.. The toned down passion you have compared to the usual critics is refreshing. The information is clear and concise. The depth is also refreshing. Not kiddy pool nor Mariana Trench. It won't help the onlyists, but it should help to begin straighting up the ones who see the convoluted thinking of the strident cult like adherents to the movement.
I love the poetic speech of the KJV, but when it comes to accuracy I 100% hands down choose the NASB
Always learning and never coming to the Truth
Words cannot describe how much PTSD I got when Kent Hovind appeared twice in this video 😖🤬
There should've been a warning like what's done for "disturbing content". LOL
Why? That man is based Dino man
@Skydaddy Myth-Busters I need to rewatch a bunch of YT videos debunking his “lectures”. The school I went to used his videos as part of our science “education” and I’m still miffed that I had to unlearn some things and relearn others all over again. I’m lucky in that I have the curiosity to unlearn those lies in the first place though
@Skydaddy Myth-Busters Hovind is such an easy target its almost unfair to beat up on him and his loony ideas.
@@rachel_sj Aron Ra is currently doing a great series debunking Hovind's "Lies in the Textbooks" series.
Tyndale was a pretty cool dude actually, his story is quite powerful
Andrew, noticed this post today. Pretty good research and central presentation generally.
Having been in possession of the ante nicene fathers volumes, othodox bible editions (earliest independent text base sources from authorship), also Jay Green's translation work, specifically his Interlinear Bible and Literal Version Bible (LITV), and Robert Young's Literal Bible (YLV), with George Ricker Berry's New Testament, these combine in my view to provide a good group of "witnesses" for textual translation review.
Having dived into the many "test" verses known to divide the success of many translations to deliver an accurate and literal rendering of the base scripts to the reader, I have used the above as a reliable basis when reviewing and reading scriptures.
"Known mistranslation" errors exist with NKJV (maybe under 100 from memory) and more with the KJV transalation. Now that I think of it, Green did publish and Modern KJV to address many of the KJV and NKJV translations aligned to this format or base. Helpful to these adherents and to those who would not likely dig further. For these reasons I think these outputs of his life are incredibly helpful, although not widely known, and due to his other publications, may not be the most palitable because people judge the man and discount the work more often that not.
All modern versions fail in some of these test script translation attempts, including your preferred NRSV, RSV, other "literal" attempts such as NASB, ASB, the NIV along with others accepted and in use today.
This subject is indeed a minefield.
From my many hours of research, year on year when this was a subject of interest in years past, I have found Greens LITV the simplest and most reliable go-to translation and resource for immediate, accurate literal renering from both old and new testament work. If you want to dive into the research deeper, his interlinear version gives the reader the translation codes and original languages - yes from a selected text base, but also aligned to those I have mentioned, including the earliest commuted pieces still available.
Jay Green Sr has since past many years ago - RIP.
Mr Green did devote himself to these volumes, to his credit.
Some of his other work is in line with the belief's from his Indiana church roots.
Don't discount the translations, even if his other works may cause some offense or caution.
Thanks for the stimulating subject matter, something I rarely ever comment on or discuss, for obvious reasons.
Best
DM
I love the touch that Peter Ruckman's strong southern accent gives to all this mysticism
Awesome video!!!! This video is a great argument for studying Biblical languages. I will say that one advantage the King James Version has is that reader knows whether "you" is singular or not. Great job!
I can't find it online but when I was taking college Spanish and one thing we did was translate parts of the Gospels from Greek into Spanish one of the students had a Bible called something like "The Great South Version". It made "you" quite clearly singular because the second person plural was "y'all". We'd used that when in Greek classes we finally got to the New Testament in order to keep the singular and plural clear, seeing it in print made us all laugh.
@@traildude7538 🤣🤣🤣🤣 As a grandchild of Southerners, you made my evening! Blessings to you and yours!
What about the Douay-Rheims Bible? An english Bible writter before the KJB. Its a translation from Jerome's Vulgate. Catholics use this Bible.
The Douay version has pretty much been supplanted by the Challoner version of 1750, which was revised with influence from the KJV. In the US, the Challoner was gradually replaced by an official translation, called the Confraternity Version, which evolved into the New American Bible, which is still their official translation.
@@fnjesusfreak NAB is not the “official” Catholic English translation. There is no “official” translation. The English don’t use the NAB for example. The USCCB does, and it’s usually read at mass, but it is not official.
I personally prefer the Doay-Rheims Challoner and RSVCE.
Douay Rheims is english? I thought it was a french version.
I didn’t expect to hear my hometown referenced in the first 20 seconds of this video. But when I think about my experience growing up there, it’s actually not that surprising.