Thanks for the video. I shoot 158 grain 38 special round-nose lead from a 5-inch barrel Smith & Wesson. I do not shoot +P ammo through this gun because it is an old gun that belonged to my Grandfather. I shoot 95 grain 380acp flat-nose FMJ from a 4-inch barrel Hungarian Walther. Based on my soft-target penetration tests through clay and my hard-target penetration tests through pine boards, the 38 special has slightly deeper penetration.
Know you get tons of suggestions so I’m going to throw one more on the fire. When you go shopping for a new handgun consider one of the full size 22WMR pistols to see if their closed 5” barrel will boost the velocity enough to matter. Again enjoy your content.
If I can find the ammo. In the past I got rated velocity in the LCP indicating that in a bigger pistol the .380 HST would be at 300 ft lbs energy. But who knows, all barrels are different.
Interesting video and good shooting. I like the EZ .380 a lot, but I seem to carry my snub nose .38 more often. It just seems more reliable even though I've never had a malfunction with either gun. Old habits are hard to break.
@@LionquestFitness The snub is just a tad too fat for me in a pocket. That’s why the LCP with a 7 shot mag in a Desantis deep cover holster is my choice. I left the speed loader far behind ( also too fat) decades ago for just that reason. I find the regular LCP trigger to be as safe as it gets pretty much mirroring the snubby in double action and get 15 rounds in a smaller space than the snub itself takes up.
Really good comparison, for me. I have the .380 EZ and have a 2 inch Taurus snubby on layaway. Don't know how the 2 inch would compare, but really appreciate this effort. BTW, my EZ has been 100% reliable over 800 plus rounds, so no complaints. I just want something more pocket-friendly and the 856 seemed to fit the bill. Costwise, too.
Sam, Thank you for taking an interest in the .380 lately. Ballistics change with a longer barrel in that caliber. I have noticed the Hornady Critical Defense in the shorter barrel .380s (like the Ruger LCP and LCP Max) tend to penetrate a bit better but expand less, presumably because of the reduced velocity. It would be interesting to see the test results of many of the .380 JHP rounds at the higher velocity in your EZ. Thanks for doing this stuff in spite of the bitter weather.
Hey Sam! Very interesting video. As a former Michigander, I appreciate your dedication to presenting this information in the winter. (Cold sucks!) Judging by your flood videos, I assume you're in the Flint/Owasso/Saginaw area. Gonna be wet this spring again judging by the snow!🙂 Keep up the good work & thank you.
Thanks for the test Sam. I carried my S&W model 60 with Golden Saber + P for several years. When Smith came out with the M&P 380 EZ I started carrying that with Critical Defense. Your testing gave me a real world comparison.
glad to see this, glad you are using a Big 380, makes it more relevent to me, I am currently carrying the brand new Ruger Security 380 (literally a Security 9 Compact rechambered for 380), saw the title and wondered about the 380 you were going to use. not surprised at all with the results, everyone is concerned with penetration, over or under, I stick with good ol' ball round, though weirdly I have run across more flat tip/semi-wadcutter in .380 than I ever did in 9mm I stick with ball round, lil chance of over penatration but perform better than HPs, and I chose the Security 380 to have 15 rds on tap to make up for the lower power.
In a previous video, he couldn't hit anything with the EZ .380 at 75 yards using ball ammo...if I'm not mistaken. But didn't do bad at all at 75 with the Hornady. Have fun and be safe!✌️
Nice Job! I like this comparison too. I have the new Ruger Security .380 and it has virtually no recoil with a 15 rd magazine. I like to use the Underwood Extreme Defender +P ammo in .380....... non expanding rounds are the ticket for .380 caliber.
Thank you for your videos. They are the best ammo rivews on youtube so far. I live in Brazil and now we can only have 380ACP and 38SPL or less for self defense so you testing this calibers ammo helps us a lot. Ammo here is really expensive and the ammounts we can buy are limited. If you have a gun registered for self defense you can buy 50 rounds/year and if you have for sport the ammount changes with the "shooter level" you have. If you could test Magtech ammo it will help us a lot. Thank you!
Those 25 yard shots you took with the EZ are the definitive reason for why the .380 is my favorite carry round. Could see that you started to quicken the pace naturally. That’s confidence, and that’s everything! That’s not the most accurate .380, not like a Bersa Thunder or other fixed barrel design. Ballistics were lackluster. See if you can get you hands on some XTPs. Hornady loads American Gunner and “Hornady Black” which are both basic XTPs. I’m a FMJ guy for .380 regardless, but I bet the standard XTP performs well from the longer barrel.
Interesting video… I was interested because I carry .380 a lot (LCP max) and I keep my wife’s S&W 642 loaded with that exact 38 spl round due to your past recommendations. The critical defense wouldn’t be my first or my second choice for .380 ( I carry extreme defenders or XTP’s) but it is my first choice in .38 spl… thank you for another good test
In the current legal environment if you are successful in your self defense shooting you stand a better chance in your legal defense with the 380 than the 38+p that is designed to blow all the guts right out of the body causing instant death and risking the lives of innocents in the next county, but then that’s only in blue states. Even though I live in South Carolina that’s why I carry a 380, it is however 10+1 with a spare mag. I’m in my 70’s and starting to suffer from shot placement deficiency.
I’d like to see a test where the gel or dummy has as much clothing as what we wear in winter; T-shirt, sweat shirt, hoody, then a large thick Dickies or Carhartt type coat and see what happens especially with the more questionable calibers. Criminals may not wear all of that, but in winter I layer up..big time. If I don’t find one, I’ll try to create and post just for info purposes. Anyway, great video! I enjoy watching all your tests!
I think this test was a pretty fair comparison. The problem with the .380 is that in shorter barrels, the hollow point expansion is harder due to lower velocity (a lot of short-barreled guns are carried for self-defense). The 3-inch length is sufficient, so it is now a question of personal choice.
I have several older Taurus revolvers, 85s, in both 2 and 3 inch versions. I've never had the accuracy problems shown here. I'll not hesitate to carry any of them, and my wife carries one.
I'm impressed withe accuracy of the Smith...if one were to choose it for SD, it would perform well. 2 shots with the 380 would end hostilities...like right now. Great test Sam.!
One thing I've learned from your channel over the years is to not underestimate the .38 special. It seems to be the perfect "enough" caliber. It lacks the power of the .357 magnum, seems slightly behind 9x19mm in some loadings, about the same in others, but (like the 9x19) it just works. Heck, it seldom seems to overpenetrate, at least in gel, even using rounds that one expected it to. I guess it's no wonder it was THE police cartridge for so long. In the end, I suppose it wasn't the effectiveness of .38 that ended its career as the go-to police round, but just the need for having more bullets on board to combat criminals who were toting hi-cap weapons.
.38 Special has a bit of everything. I like the versatility of wadcutter to +P JHP's to heavy LRN. Pretty on par with the fundamental needs of a duty caliber, as where the .380 is just a bit shy of that.
Well the +P 38 spl is more powerful than a .380 and we all knew that. Gel block: I like the little insert. I wonder about the temperature since i think those gel blocks are meant to be used at 70 F. Accuracy: I sort of fast forwarded the latter half. I want an RMR or Holosun on my carry guns if longer ranges are part of the gun's mission. I would only use a .380 in the mini pocket guns like what ruger, keltec, an seecamp make. It is an in your face gun. That 380 that you were using is about the same size as the smaller 9x19 guns. I go slightly larger in width on my 9mm, still about the size of a snubnose j-frame. So I would rather see a G26 compared to a j-frame. You are using what looks like a K frame equivalent 38 special revolver. 110 grain at about 1060 fps is very close to what lower end standard pressure 9x19 will do in the shorter subcompact guns with 115 grain projectiles.
Sam, what are your thoughts on the new Rossi 357s. I thought about a 6 shot Taurus 38 3 inch, but the 357 Rossi looks like it is improved over the Old ones
How are you liking the shield easy 380? I have the Performance Center model, and I love the thing. Other than every once in a while the last round in the magazine shoot straight up into the chamber instead of loading into the barrel
So far so good. Have about 100 rounds of ball and 50 rounds of HP ammo through it, no malfunctions yet. Typically pulling that off means it will remain reliable. Only time this was different was with my current Glock 41, was reliable but then started having issues.
@@GunSam good to hear. Wonder if S&W fixed the mag issues on these. The fiber optic sights on the PC model are awesome. I love mine. Hope yours remains reliable
Happy to see you brought out that 50 yard target. And was able to hit the 75 with the .380 with that different ammo. You always make it interesting and fun. Thanks brother, be safe. Let's Go Brandon!🇺🇲👍🇺🇲✌️🇺🇲
Been catching up and watching a lot of your gel tests. It has me rethinking my Ruger LCP and every since I got my SW 642, I've been carrying it a lot. Have you ever done a video on what you carry for different seasons type of gun and caliber? I would be interested in that. Great testing thanks
Only one, and I did it for a social experiment. About 10 years ago everyone was screaming about "it's not an assault rifle" so I shot my friend's AR and labeled the video "30 Rounds Assault Rifle" on purpose to see what would happen. Of course the people like myself who are into freedoms were flipping out that it's not an "assault rifle". I had maybe 900 subscribers at the time so I didn't care, I would never do that now days lol. But as far as ballistic tests, no I stick almost exclusively to handguns simply because in my state my permit only allows for concealment of handguns, so I do my filming around my own life, and I train with what I can legally carry in cars and on person.
Thanks for the vídeo. It was nicely paced. Since one of the advantages of a revolver is its ammo tolerance, it would have been good to try some wadcutters or semi wadcutters, maybe resulting in an advantage in the "tissue" damage. I don't think it's unfair to introduce ammo that the semi auto cannot shoot. I'm sure you're too experienced to milk the trigger, but the results hint at that, so maybe that Taurus doesn't fit your hand as well as you thought it did.
No. Taurus replaced it and I am just done trying with it. I don't carry the thing and my tests are limited with using it on the channel. I will probably trade it in one of these days.
Have you heard of the Defiant ammo 80 grain 380 solid copper hollow points? Allegedly 1100fps out of a 2.75 inch barrel. 75 bucks for 50 rounds. 13 inches of penetration in gel.
The .38 special mdf in this video looks almost on par with the 44 magnum shots while the .380 looks on par with the .357 shots from your .357 vs .44 magnum video, again, just less penetration For example the wounding looks just as wide on the .380 as it did on the .357, but 12.25” vs 17” and 19” from the .357. And the .38 special looks on par out to 10” with that the .44 magnum did to 20”. Not bad at all
Taurus is an oxymoron. Jeckyl and Hyde. Hit or Miss. There are some bad designs floating around. Get the most up to date model that's been out for a minute. Be careful with brand new ones. Oh and don't dry fire the spectrum if you can find one. Nobody says anything about em but there's a firing pin return spring that will become stuck and break apart.
The Spectrum only handles brass standard pressure, but does have a double trigger press. You should always use a snap cap to protect the firing pin in any firearm. Unless you don't care about your tools good luck with that.
@@danielaramburo7648 Consider yourself fortunate. I've owned over two dozen and most have malfunctioned or flat broken without having been used much. Three went back for warranted repair (PT1911, PT111, and 627 Tracker).
Sam I just bought a Ruger LCP2 and wondering what your 380 carry choice is? Are you carrying the Federal IRT now or still the Win white box FN? I’m debating this and it’s a tough call. My choices so far are the IRT, Underwood Hard cast, Win white box, or Underwood Defender or Penetrator. All the HPs seem no good for 380 except for the Hydrashok Deep which is tough to find.
I don't carry any .380's currently, but I was always fond of the old Win USA JHP and Remington UMC/HTP JHP as they would run in my LCP and get slight nose deformation, penetrate enough in gel.
The M&P likes that Hornady ammunition. It was designed to be easy to use by people with weak hands. Also it should have considerably less felt recoil than the typical 2.7" barrel micro pistol. Have you found that to be the case? The light rack slide should also be a good selling point. As for the ammo, I know that neither the 380 or 38Spl+P is the most powerful stuff on earth. But Hornady's Critical Defense line seems to be consistent across all calibers I've seen tested. I bought a case of the 38Spl+P back when you did that Remington vs Hornady in 110gr 38Spl+P test in 2" revolvers. I haven't shot anyone with it yet. I still have a lot of Gold Dot 135gr, Remington, etc. Plus I have the magnum stuff.
I have noticed low recoil, but for me I have a hard time being able to tell fine differences. Like, if I shoot a .44 Mag I know it, a .357 Mag I sort of know it, a .45 ACP+P I am sort of aware. Anything lower like 9mm, .40 S&W, .380 ACP, .38 Special etc all feel the same to me. The light rack is sort of valid at least for me. It doesn't feel lighter overall if I try to use my palms and rack it along with my 5" M&P's or Glock, however for it's size that is comparable to my Db9, LCP or even G2C where more fingers are used than palms for racking, I do see a difference and can appreciate the light rack.
@@GunSam You shoot enough heavy stuff that you are less sensitive to recoil. When you get your ported S&W MODEL 460V REVOLVER and start shooting the hot stuff in it, you will probably start to consider the 44 Magnum wimpy. I look forward to seeing those gel shots and penetration tests! 😏
Your comment doesn't make any sense. It's synthetic gel, it's internal temp is about 65 degrees. It comes out, goes up and I shoot it. After the videos I often cut the bullets out while in the field, and warm my fingers in the gel block.
@@GunSam Its synthetic, but I would imagine that temperature might change its firmness, no? I guess if you bring it out and just shoot it and don't really give it time to get cold, that makes sense... Gel is still mostly water, so if its 25 degrees out, that would make the gel "harder" than it would be on an 85 degree day, right? Or am I missing something?
@@SquireSCA temperature has some effect...as for the cold & how much? That'd make for interesting testing. Someone could do an entire video, or series, on just comparing gel(s) and testing variables. G-Sam has shot in the extremes enough that it's perhaps not enough difference to even notice or care about? Would have to shoot a whole lot of the same ammo into gel in various conditions. The company told me they recommend use at 70degrees. I've been able to see pretty clearly some effect in regards to bounceback, by putting a BB in it in the 70 degree house, vs taking it outside and leaving it sit in the sun for a spell. And don't get me started on "calibrated"
Be careful out there in the snow -- I would hate to see you come up missing because of the Abominable Snowman --- I don't think a 380 or 38+P is enough to ward it off!
I have seen sassy one time as a youth. Scared me a bit. Sounded like a horse when running, but ultimately did run from me so I don't think i'd have to take one down.
I have recently acquired my 1st 380... The shield ez... Super soft shooter, but... Not yet sure I "trust" my life to it yet. Very smooth shooter, accurate, but not too powerful.
@@rob6850 I wasn't a fan of the grip safety either... But it is really unobtrusive when you're actually using this firearm. Again, very soft shooter, very accurate, but limited power in ammo. I found the SIG elite v crown works pretty well, as far as expansion and penetration in combination with each other... I am intrigued with the liberty civil defense ammo... I think I like the way it "explodes" on impact... Particularly in a small caliber firearm, but I want to see more data on 380 performance specifically.
Why can't Hornady just stick a little more powder in those cases? How hard could it be? Borderline isn't good enough. Taurus needs to take that piece back and set the barrel square to the cylinder. I would bet that bore isn't square to the frame, isn't square to the cylinder chambers.
Love your videos. But I have to say that the only time that the 12-18 inch threshold applies is when it is shot through four layers of denim into real gel.
I like that 380 ACP will probably not exit. It depletes all muzzle energy. I understand that some will debate that expansion does not require much or any muzzle energy. The usual explanation is expansion threshold velocity alone causes it. Yet, you hAve yet to show a bullet expanding before it hits your ballistic test block. Many choose a truncated cone shaped bullet in this caliber.
I have a 3" barreled Charter Arms 380ACP Revolver which has about an equivalent of 1" "barrel-travel" advantage over that S&W EZ Shield. That should give it about a 38fps advantage for 1008 fps (203 FPE) for the Hornady 380 Critical Defense Ammo. Now that compares very well to the results you got for your 2" Snubby with Hornady Critical Defense 38SP +P of 905 fps (200 FPE) th-cam.com/video/HnaWXZAsaIY/w-d-xo.html This might surprise most people who've been told the 380ACP is a do-nothing round.
The Hornady CD (which I have several boxes of for my .380, and for my 9mm too) really, really (really) sucked big time--real disappointing. You should try Underwood's Xtreme Penetrator 90 gr. +P (or standard pressure) for (from what I've seen elsewhere) will be vastly superior performance from a .380. It's what I now keep in my .380's.
Hornady used to nickle plate those critical defence, not anymore they blamed covid for supply problem , maybe get some from Underwood who never ran out.Companys that skimp to get their claws on a few more penny's are to be scrutinized. Premium defence rounds should have nice plate, a round you carry next to your body should be plated .
Underwood has some nice plating. I don't recall what it's called but it's one step better than normal nickel plating, like it doesn't allow any brass stretching at all. Only Underwood uses this process I believe.
Preferably the .380 over the .38. Less weight, better accuracy, less recoil, smaller package for concealment, easier to carry more rounds. Now that being said, an LC9s is my daily carry. Why? Accuracy, Accuracy, Accuracy. The .380 accuracy with better performance than the .38 🙂
I don't know, what I do know is three things. One, I use Clear Ballistics which is not technically ballistics gel. Two, the center of the block is room temperature yet 99.99999% of people assume the center is cold. And three, Clear Ballistics is stable between -10F and +95F and I have never filmed outside of those conditions, either way the gel is about 70 degrees in the center all year round.
As much as I am a revolver guy at heart from a self deffense standpoint I have turned to the auto's as first choice,,,,WHY?,,,because of rounds available without reload for starters,,,, criminals seem to run in packs just like wild dogs more now than ever,,, and having only 6 7 or just 8 rounds even if those rounds are more powerfull is still trumped by having 10 or more (in the case of my 9mm daily carry it's 21 with one chambered), in the case of a pocket gun for those times when you just can't go bigger I now will take my LCP max 10 to one over my 5 shot pocket revolvers, truth be told also by the time you get into that sub 2 inch barrel of a pocket gun even in 38 special the playing field becomes less of a gap between something like the LCP max and it,,, as a bonus the LCP with 10 rounds often weighs less than the 38 special and is a bit smaller also,,,,, so I'll take the 380 LCP max hands down,,, now if the 380 was only holding 6 7 or only 8 rounds at best then the 38 special would make a bit more sense,,, what is lost on me is why would you carry a 380 that is size compatible to a 9mm????,,,,...
Yeah in the old revolver days it was one per customer and one shot stops Then come the auto mostly 9 mm it was shoot till the threat was stopped Now with all the drugs and the two and three to one ratio of bad guys to good guys it's DUMP the mag I'm phasing out my Snubby also
It's all debatable. Wolf pack comes, you might wound a bunch with small calibers. Or maybe 6 rounds of .357 Mag would be enough. If you literally blow away the first guy, the others probably won't want any of that.
@@GunSam could be truth in that Sam but my money is on not,,,, remember even 357 magnum ISN"T 100% on stopping man size threats,,,close but not quite,,,,, and in modern times with modern and much improved ammo even in the smaller calibers are up to quite a bit more ability to stop a threat than years gone by,,,, you're a reloader so I chalange you,,,, in a 357 magnum of say three inch barrel length, because anything longer starts getting a bit too hard to conceal and carry comfortably,,,, and because at three inch barrel length is where the revolver of even the 6 shot persuasion becomes as big or bigger and as heavy as or heavier than a 4 inch barreled auto packing 15 rounds of 9mm,,,, now add to this the pretty much hard fact that in a 3 inch barrel 357 magnum it's damn hard to exceed the velocities of that of that 4 inch barreled 9mm,,,, example,,,, many loadings are out there of the +p variety for 9mm that will push a 124 grain hollow point bullet to the 1200 to 1300 fps range without much trouble,,,,now while I aint gonna dig out my rather extensive log of reloading and ballistics data I have acquiredover the 40+ years doing just this kind of stuff,,,yes no shit I have been at this crap that long and have even had freinds that worked at or still work at the ballistics labs where CCI/ SPEER bullets/ammo is made ( I will always know it as Omark industries) who I have learned a ton from over the years,, it's kinda my home town Lewistobn Idaho if you chose to believe me,,, so "I have a pretty good grasp on this stuff,,,, and like I say while calibers like 357 are great in longer barrels because they need them to use up all that powder space available that is intended for slow burning powders that means they fall flat when the barrel gets shorter,,,,sure you can exceed what a 9mm (just one example) can muster for raw horsepower,,,but not when the barrel gets short enough to be of comfortable packing size and even at that you are down way more on ammo count have much higher recoil noise and muzzle blast to contend with,,,,I commend you on being faithfull to the revolvers,,,, God knows I love my revolvers and own quite a few,,,they are great for up in the woods where a bad bear or the such is the most likely thing you will face,,, give me a good 44magnum six shooter there hell yes,,,but when it comes to human vermin a 9mm packing no less than 15 rounds in the magazine or a pocket pistol in 380 packing 10 or more if i can get oneis where i am going anymore hands down,,,, it's a whole different storey when you are possibly facing a gun wielding enemy or possiblly morte than just one attacker in general,,,you might think you could do the one shot one kill thing but you would be only playing the fool at that point,,,under the strees of it whatever group size you can make just goofing around will tripple in size under the stress of being attacked like that,,,it's majorly proven to be so,,,, the revolver had it's day and is still a fun range toy but for serious self deffense it just don't hold a candle to an auto, as much as my love for revolvers that hard to admit but it's the truth.
Lose that Taurus and get anything that shoots straight. You should like what you own. And it should run as intended. I'm just pushing the Algore rhythm.
I’d get rid of that horribly inaccurate.38 and use the money on a better gun. Just my thoughts. I have a Ruger SP101 in .38 and at 30 feet distance, the thing shoots like 2-feet high! I think the gun was made on a Monday.
You DO realize that your accuracy at 75 yards is ASTOUNDING? Another useful test of ordinary guns for real people!..............................elsullo
I'll say for you brother, The 38 special Is the winner. I don't want any of them as my daily carry. My life is worth a whole lot more than to risk it Period . I'll just go with the sick and weak or small and weak 40. That's why 327 Sig, 357 mag, 10 mm. Can't go wrong with any of them.
They are not equal because you are using plus P ammo for one why don't you try 380 plus P Underwood extreme defender, that penetrates 15 in and leaves a big wound cavity that will kill that 38 special you got right there
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Some ppl say that 380 or 38 isn't enough, but they've both filled many Graves over the years. Great video 👍👍
I recently upgraded to the LCP Max & appreciate your tests of this round since it’s what I currently carry.
Thanks for the video.
I shoot 158 grain 38 special round-nose lead from a 5-inch barrel Smith & Wesson. I do not shoot +P ammo through this gun because it is an old gun that belonged to my Grandfather.
I shoot 95 grain 380acp flat-nose FMJ from a 4-inch barrel Hungarian Walther.
Based on my soft-target penetration tests through clay and my hard-target penetration tests through pine boards, the 38 special has slightly deeper penetration.
Enjoying the different 380 loads like the 22mag loads you shot, it’s nice to see some different loads that are actually carried.
Know you get tons of suggestions so I’m going to throw one more on the fire. When you go shopping for a new handgun consider one of the full size 22WMR pistols to see if their closed 5” barrel will boost the velocity enough to matter.
Again enjoy your content.
Good night from Brazil 🇧🇷. His tests are a spectacle, realistic and honest. Thanks for another video. I love the .38 and also the .380
Can’t wait to see an hst test from the 380
If I can find the ammo. In the past I got rated velocity in the LCP indicating that in a bigger pistol the .380 HST would be at 300 ft lbs energy. But who knows, all barrels are different.
Interesting video and good shooting.
I like the EZ .380 a lot, but I seem to carry my snub nose .38 more often. It just seems more reliable even though I've never had a malfunction with either gun. Old habits are hard to break.
That's for sure. I can't shake carrying a .38 snub. It fits, it works, it conceals.
@@LionquestFitness The snub is just a tad too fat for me in a pocket. That’s why the LCP with a 7 shot mag in a Desantis deep cover holster is my choice. I left the speed loader far behind ( also too fat) decades ago for just that reason. I find the regular LCP trigger to be as safe as it gets pretty much mirroring the snubby in double action and get 15 rounds in a smaller space than the snub itself takes up.
👍 good job as always. I always enjoy your videos.
Really good comparison, for me. I have the
.380 EZ and have a 2 inch Taurus snubby on layaway. Don't know how the 2 inch would compare, but really appreciate this effort. BTW, my EZ has been 100% reliable over 800 plus rounds, so no complaints. I just want something more pocket-friendly and the 856 seemed to fit the bill. Costwise, too.
Sam, Thank you for taking an interest in the .380 lately. Ballistics change with a longer barrel in that caliber. I have noticed the Hornady Critical Defense in the shorter barrel .380s (like the Ruger LCP and LCP Max) tend to penetrate a bit better but expand less, presumably because of the reduced velocity. It would be interesting to see the test results of many of the .380 JHP rounds at the higher velocity in your EZ. Thanks for doing this stuff in spite of the bitter weather.
Another great video brother, love the ballistics and performance testing! Awesome content!
Thanks!
Hey Sam! Very interesting video. As a former Michigander, I appreciate your dedication to presenting this information in the winter. (Cold sucks!)
Judging by your flood videos, I assume you're in the Flint/Owasso/Saginaw area. Gonna be wet this spring again judging by the snow!🙂 Keep up the good work & thank you.
Closer to Saginaw but still a good hour from there.
Thanks for the test Sam. I carried my S&W model 60 with Golden Saber + P for several years. When Smith came out with the M&P 380 EZ I started carrying that with Critical Defense. Your testing gave me a real world comparison.
I already tested and filmed the Golden Saber .380 VS .38 Special also. Will release probably in a week
glad to see this, glad you are using a Big 380, makes it more relevent to me, I am currently carrying the brand new Ruger Security 380 (literally a Security 9 Compact rechambered for 380), saw the title and wondered about the 380 you were going to use.
not surprised at all with the results, everyone is concerned with penetration, over or under,
I stick with good ol' ball round, though weirdly I have run across more flat tip/semi-wadcutter in .380 than I ever did in 9mm
I stick with ball round, lil chance of over penatration but perform better than HPs, and I chose the Security 380 to have 15 rds on tap to make up for the lower power.
Got the Security 9 and M&P 9. I prefer the M&P overall so went with the EZ.
In a previous video, he couldn't hit anything with the EZ .380 at 75 yards using ball ammo...if I'm not mistaken.
But didn't do bad at all at 75 with the Hornady.
Have fun and be safe!✌️
Nice Job! I like this comparison too. I have the new Ruger Security .380 and it has virtually no recoil with a 15 rd magazine. I like to use the Underwood Extreme Defender +P ammo in .380....... non expanding rounds are the ticket for .380 caliber.
Thank you for your videos. They are the best ammo rivews on youtube so far. I live in Brazil and now we can only have 380ACP and 38SPL or less for self defense so you testing this calibers ammo helps us a lot. Ammo here is really expensive and the ammounts we can buy are limited. If you have a gun registered for self defense you can buy 50 rounds/year and if you have for sport the ammount changes with the "shooter level" you have. If you could test Magtech ammo it will help us a lot. Thank you!
Those 25 yard shots you took with the EZ are the definitive reason for why the .380 is my favorite carry round. Could see that you started to quicken the pace naturally. That’s confidence, and that’s everything!
That’s not the most accurate .380, not like a Bersa Thunder or other fixed barrel design.
Ballistics were lackluster. See if you can get you hands on some XTPs. Hornady loads American Gunner and “Hornady Black” which are both basic XTPs.
I’m a FMJ guy for .380 regardless, but I bet the standard XTP performs well from the longer barrel.
Interesting video… I was interested because I carry .380 a lot (LCP max) and I keep my wife’s S&W 642 loaded with that exact 38 spl round due to your past recommendations. The critical defense wouldn’t be my first or my second choice for .380 ( I carry extreme defenders or XTP’s) but it is my first choice in .38 spl… thank you for another good test
both would do the job in a normal civilian self defense scenario. better than a sharp stick...
Thanks, good video. Nice comparison. As you commented, both seemed to do well. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thank you, take care.
In the current legal environment if you are successful in your self defense shooting you stand a better chance in your legal defense with the 380 than the 38+p that is designed to blow all the guts right out of the body causing instant death and risking the lives of innocents in the next county, but then that’s only in blue states. Even though I live in South Carolina that’s why I carry a 380, it is however 10+1 with a spare mag. I’m in my 70’s and starting to suffer from shot placement deficiency.
Boa noite aqui do Brasil 🇧🇷. Seus testes são um espetáculo, realistas e honestos. Obrigado por outro ótimo vídeo. Amo .38 e também o .380.
Nice review! I too was surprised you managed to get the FTX to not expand as they nearly always seem to.
I miss the bologna pack. 👍
I’d like to see a test where the gel or dummy has as much clothing as what we wear in winter; T-shirt, sweat shirt, hoody, then a large thick Dickies or Carhartt type coat and see what happens especially with the more questionable calibers. Criminals may not wear all of that, but in winter I layer up..big time. If I don’t find one, I’ll try to create and post just for info purposes. Anyway, great video! I enjoy watching all your tests!
Sell the Taurus! Your assessment was valid. Thanks for another great test. 38 Special is still a valid round.
I think this test was a pretty fair comparison. The problem with the .380 is that in shorter barrels, the hollow point expansion is harder due to lower velocity (a lot of short-barreled guns are carried for self-defense). The 3-inch length is sufficient, so it is now a question of personal choice.
thanks for the video. if i could please request for you to include data with a snubnose it would be appreciated.
thanks Sam!
I have several older Taurus revolvers, 85s, in both 2 and 3 inch versions. I've never had the accuracy problems shown here. I'll not hesitate to carry any of them, and my wife carries one.
I'm impressed withe accuracy of the Smith...if one were to choose it for SD, it would perform well.
2 shots with the 380 would end hostilities...like right now.
Great test Sam.!
One thing I've learned from your channel over the years is to not underestimate the .38 special. It seems to be the perfect "enough" caliber. It lacks the power of the .357 magnum, seems slightly behind 9x19mm in some loadings, about the same in others, but (like the 9x19) it just works.
Heck, it seldom seems to overpenetrate, at least in gel, even using rounds that one expected it to. I guess it's no wonder it was THE police cartridge for so long. In the end, I suppose it wasn't the effectiveness of .38 that ended its career as the go-to police round, but just the need for having more bullets on board to combat criminals who were toting hi-cap weapons.
.38 Special has a bit of everything. I like the versatility of wadcutter to +P JHP's to heavy LRN. Pretty on par with the fundamental needs of a duty caliber, as where the .380 is just a bit shy of that.
Good video. I'd be interested in your take on the Rock Island 200 series vs that Taurus.
Well the +P 38 spl is more powerful than a .380 and we all knew that.
Gel block: I like the little insert. I wonder about the temperature since i think those gel blocks are meant to be used at 70 F.
Accuracy: I sort of fast forwarded the latter half. I want an RMR or Holosun on my carry guns if longer ranges are part of the gun's mission.
I would only use a .380 in the mini pocket guns like what ruger, keltec, an seecamp make. It is an in your face gun. That 380 that you were using is about the same size as the smaller 9x19 guns. I go slightly larger in width on my 9mm, still about the size of a snubnose j-frame. So I would rather see a G26 compared to a j-frame. You are using what looks like a K frame equivalent 38 special revolver. 110 grain at about 1060 fps is very close to what lower end standard pressure 9x19 will do in the shorter subcompact guns with 115 grain projectiles.
Sam, what are your thoughts on the new Rossi 357s. I thought about a 6 shot Taurus 38 3 inch, but the 357 Rossi looks like it is improved over the Old ones
So Glad you got the 380 ez got 1 for my girl n it does shoot GR8 , can't wait to c ur videos on it.
You are a pretty decent shot. Great video!!! -Gunny T sends
How are you liking the shield easy 380? I have the Performance Center model, and I love the thing. Other than every once in a while the last round in the magazine shoot straight up into the chamber instead of loading into the barrel
So far so good. Have about 100 rounds of ball and 50 rounds of HP ammo through it, no malfunctions yet. Typically pulling that off means it will remain reliable. Only time this was different was with my current Glock 41, was reliable but then started having issues.
@@GunSam good to hear. Wonder if S&W fixed the mag issues on these. The fiber optic sights on the PC model are awesome. I love mine. Hope yours remains reliable
Thank you.
Time to trade that Taurus for a Smith or Ruger. Good video
Sam, I prefer an underwood extreme penetrator in my S&W bodyguard .380. It will punch through heavy clothing and still 'do the job'.
Maybe I missed it but would you do a review on the best budget revolvers eliminating Ruger and Smith & Wesson.
Surprised they failed to expand in denim & fiberboard. But would be a hit if they are a hit just the same.
I love my shield 40 Smith & Wesson Greater knock down power. But I also have the 380 easy.
Happy to see you brought out that 50 yard target.
And was able to hit the 75 with the .380 with that different ammo.
You always make it interesting and fun.
Thanks brother, be safe.
Let's Go Brandon!🇺🇲👍🇺🇲✌️🇺🇲
Yay for more testing ....
great test.
Been catching up and watching a lot of your gel tests. It has me rethinking my Ruger LCP and every since I got my SW 642, I've been carrying it a lot. Have you ever done a video on what you carry for different seasons type of gun and caliber? I would be interested in that. Great testing thanks
Thanks. I don't change carry based on season. I wear the same type of pants and pocket carry the same snub all year long.
@@GunSam What caliber?
Right now it's .327 Federal Magnum, been that way about 3 years.
I see the 856 is working. Ps. good practical test.
Great video Sam
thanks
I like what I see from the 38spl.
Another interesting video my friend.
Do you have any videos on 556 or 223?
Only one, and I did it for a social experiment. About 10 years ago everyone was screaming about "it's not an assault rifle" so I shot my friend's AR and labeled the video "30 Rounds Assault Rifle" on purpose to see what would happen. Of course the people like myself who are into freedoms were flipping out that it's not an "assault rifle". I had maybe 900 subscribers at the time so I didn't care, I would never do that now days lol. But as far as ballistic tests, no I stick almost exclusively to handguns simply because in my state my permit only allows for concealment of handguns, so I do my filming around my own life, and I train with what I can legally carry in cars and on person.
Got here faster than a speeding bullet. First!
Thanks for the vídeo. It was nicely paced. Since one of the advantages of a revolver is its ammo tolerance, it would have been good to try some wadcutters or semi wadcutters, maybe resulting in an advantage in the "tissue" damage. I don't think it's unfair to introduce ammo that the semi auto cannot shoot.
I'm sure you're too experienced to milk the trigger, but the results hint at that, so maybe that Taurus doesn't fit your hand as well as you thought it did.
I like the Underwoods - they're heavier at 125 grains... And they even make a great +P hunting round.
the green jacket your wearing Sam what brand is it I want to get one for myself. Thanks for making awesome videos
Men's Levi's Four Pocket Hooded Parka
Don't forget that the .380 also might JAM! And then what would you do? /s
That Taurus though ... thought a couple of them went low but...wow.
yep
Did you take that 3" to a gunsmith to see if its barrel has a defect?
No. Taurus replaced it and I am just done trying with it. I don't carry the thing and my tests are limited with using it on the channel. I will probably trade it in one of these days.
@@GunSam The whole deal is a damn shame, I tell ya'... It should've been a great gun like the 605...
Have you heard of the Defiant ammo 80 grain 380 solid copper hollow points? Allegedly 1100fps out of a 2.75 inch barrel. 75 bucks for 50 rounds. 13 inches of penetration in gel.
I use Buffalo Bore +p soft lead hollow points. Judging by the recoil, they would be nasty SD rounds.
The .38 special mdf in this video looks almost on par with the 44 magnum shots while the .380 looks on par with the .357 shots from your .357 vs .44 magnum video, again, just less penetration
For example the wounding looks just as wide on the .380 as it did on the .357, but 12.25” vs 17” and 19” from the .357. And the .38 special looks on par out to 10” with that the .44 magnum did to 20”. Not bad at all
First time watching your channel and enjoyed a relaxing straightforward comparison. Was not impressed by .380.
Taurus quality - a new oxymoron.
Taurus is an oxymoron. Jeckyl and Hyde. Hit or Miss. There are some bad designs floating around. Get the most up to date model that's been out for a minute. Be careful with brand new ones. Oh and don't dry fire the spectrum if you can find one. Nobody says anything about em but there's a firing pin return spring that will become stuck and break apart.
@@marshmower Thanks for the warning about the Spectrum.
The Spectrum only handles brass standard pressure, but does have a double trigger press. You should always use a snap cap to protect the firing pin in any firearm. Unless you don't care about your tools good luck with that.
I own 3 Taurus guns. No complaints.
@@danielaramburo7648 Consider yourself fortunate. I've owned over two dozen and most have malfunctioned or flat broken without having been used much. Three went back for warranted repair (PT1911, PT111, and 627 Tracker).
Why was there more penetration through denim and MDF than through gel alone?
Sam I just bought a Ruger LCP2 and wondering what your 380 carry choice is? Are you carrying the Federal IRT now or still the Win white box FN? I’m debating this and it’s a tough call. My choices so far are the IRT, Underwood Hard cast, Win white box, or Underwood Defender or Penetrator. All the HPs seem no good for 380 except for the Hydrashok Deep which is tough to find.
I don't carry any .380's currently, but I was always fond of the old Win USA JHP and Remington UMC/HTP JHP as they would run in my LCP and get slight nose deformation, penetrate enough in gel.
The M&P likes that Hornady ammunition. It was designed to be easy to use by people with weak hands. Also it should have considerably less felt recoil than the typical 2.7" barrel micro pistol. Have you found that to be the case? The light rack slide should also be a good selling point.
As for the ammo, I know that neither the 380 or 38Spl+P is the most powerful stuff on earth. But Hornady's Critical Defense line seems to be consistent across all calibers I've seen tested. I bought a case of the 38Spl+P back when you did that Remington vs Hornady in 110gr 38Spl+P test in 2" revolvers.
I haven't shot anyone with it yet. I still have a lot of Gold Dot 135gr, Remington, etc. Plus I have the magnum stuff.
I have noticed low recoil, but for me I have a hard time being able to tell fine differences. Like, if I shoot a .44 Mag I know it, a .357 Mag I sort of know it, a .45 ACP+P I am sort of aware. Anything lower like 9mm, .40 S&W, .380 ACP, .38 Special etc all feel the same to me. The light rack is sort of valid at least for me. It doesn't feel lighter overall if I try to use my palms and rack it along with my 5" M&P's or Glock, however for it's size that is comparable to my Db9, LCP or even G2C where more fingers are used than palms for racking, I do see a difference and can appreciate the light rack.
@@GunSam You shoot enough heavy stuff that you are less sensitive to recoil. When you get your ported S&W MODEL 460V REVOLVER and start shooting the hot stuff in it, you will probably start to consider the 44 Magnum wimpy.
I look forward to seeing those gel shots and penetration tests! 😏
How does the freezing temps effect the ballistic gel? Does it cause it to get too firm, which might help expansion at the expense of penetration?
Your comment doesn't make any sense. It's synthetic gel, it's internal temp is about 65 degrees. It comes out, goes up and I shoot it. After the videos I often cut the bullets out while in the field, and warm my fingers in the gel block.
@@GunSam Its synthetic, but I would imagine that temperature might change its firmness, no? I guess if you bring it out and just shoot it and don't really give it time to get cold, that makes sense...
Gel is still mostly water, so if its 25 degrees out, that would make the gel "harder" than it would be on an 85 degree day, right? Or am I missing something?
@@SquireSCA temperature has some effect...as for the cold & how much? That'd make for interesting testing. Someone could do an entire video, or series, on just comparing gel(s) and testing variables.
G-Sam has shot in the extremes enough that it's perhaps not enough difference to even notice or care about?
Would have to shoot a whole lot of the same ammo into gel in various conditions.
The company told me they recommend use at 70degrees.
I've been able to see pretty clearly some effect in regards to bounceback, by putting a BB in it in the 70 degree house, vs taking it outside and leaving it sit in the sun for a spell.
And don't get me started on "calibrated"
Be careful out there in the snow -- I would hate to see you come up missing because of the Abominable Snowman --- I don't think a 380 or 38+P is enough to ward it off!
I have seen sassy one time as a youth. Scared me a bit. Sounded like a horse when running, but ultimately did run from me so I don't think i'd have to take one down.
@@GunSam glad you're ok 👍👍
I have recently acquired my 1st 380... The shield ez... Super soft shooter, but... Not yet sure I "trust" my life to it yet. Very smooth shooter, accurate, but not too powerful.
No jams yet with mine. At least there's that
Never having touched one, only looked at them, it is the idea of the grip safety that puts me off. I worry about fumbling with that in a time of need.
@@rob6850 I wasn't a fan of the grip safety either... But it is really unobtrusive when you're actually using this firearm. Again, very soft shooter, very accurate, but limited power in ammo. I found the SIG elite v crown works pretty well, as far as expansion and penetration in combination with each other... I am intrigued with the liberty civil defense ammo... I think I like the way it "explodes" on impact... Particularly in a small caliber firearm, but I want to see more data on 380 performance specifically.
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Why can't Hornady just stick a little more powder in those cases? How hard could it be? Borderline isn't good enough.
Taurus needs to take that piece back and set the barrel square to the cylinder. I would bet that bore isn't square to the frame, isn't square to the cylinder chambers.
Love your videos. But I have to say that the only time that the 12-18 inch threshold applies is when it is shot through four layers of denim into real gel.
I like that 380 ACP will probably not exit.
It depletes all muzzle energy.
I understand that some will debate that expansion does not require much or any muzzle energy. The usual explanation is expansion threshold velocity alone causes it. Yet, you hAve yet to show a bullet expanding before it hits your ballistic test block.
Many choose a truncated cone shaped bullet in this caliber.
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Not quite enough junk in the trunk to do the dew, for me.
My elderly dad only likes .38 so he needs to be aware of this. Thanks.
Where are you at that there is that much snow on the ground ?
MI
I have a 3" barreled Charter Arms 380ACP Revolver which has about an equivalent of 1" "barrel-travel" advantage over that S&W EZ Shield. That should give it about a 38fps advantage for 1008 fps (203 FPE) for the Hornady 380 Critical Defense Ammo. Now that compares very well to the results you got for your 2" Snubby with Hornady Critical Defense 38SP +P of 905 fps (200 FPE) th-cam.com/video/HnaWXZAsaIY/w-d-xo.html This might surprise most people who've been told the 380ACP is a do-nothing round.
Hood testing. Both will do the job. 38sp not what use to be.
The Hornady CD (which I have several boxes of for my .380, and for my 9mm too) really, really (really) sucked big time--real disappointing. You should try Underwood's Xtreme Penetrator 90 gr. +P (or standard pressure) for (from what I've seen elsewhere) will be vastly superior performance from a .380. It's what I now keep in my .380's.
I'd go with .38 Special over .380. I just think it's more powerful.
Hornady used to nickle plate those critical defence, not anymore they blamed covid for supply problem , maybe get some from Underwood who never ran out.Companys that skimp to get their claws on a few more penny's are to be scrutinized. Premium defence rounds should have nice plate, a round you carry next to your body should be plated .
Underwood has some nice plating. I don't recall what it's called but it's one step better than normal nickel plating, like it doesn't allow any brass stretching at all. Only Underwood uses this process I believe.
@@GunSam yep the hold up better reloading, when companys start skimping you have wonder what else you can't see is being altered for profit?
Critical defense didn't expand for me either
Preferably the .380 over the .38. Less weight, better accuracy, less recoil, smaller package for concealment, easier to carry more rounds.
Now that being said, an LC9s is my daily carry. Why? Accuracy, Accuracy, Accuracy. The .380 accuracy with better performance than the .38 🙂
I wouldn't bother with testing any HP rounds from that .380. It's nothing but loadings using the Lehigh Xtreme Defender bullet like Underwood for me.
Same statement goes for the .38 spl
Critical defense is a shallow penetrator in 380! XTPs much better they penetrate deep 14 inches or more.
How does temperature affekt Ballistics gel??
I don't know, what I do know is three things. One, I use Clear Ballistics which is not technically ballistics gel. Two, the center of the block is room temperature yet 99.99999% of people assume the center is cold. And three, Clear Ballistics is stable between -10F and +95F and I have never filmed outside of those conditions, either way the gel is about 70 degrees in the center all year round.
As much as I am a revolver guy at heart from a self deffense standpoint I have turned to the auto's as first choice,,,,WHY?,,,because of rounds available without reload for starters,,,, criminals seem to run in packs just like wild dogs more now than ever,,, and having only 6 7 or just 8 rounds even if those rounds are more powerfull is still trumped by having 10 or more (in the case of my 9mm daily carry it's 21 with one chambered), in the case of a pocket gun for those times when you just can't go bigger I now will take my LCP max 10 to one over my 5 shot pocket revolvers, truth be told also by the time you get into that sub 2 inch barrel of a pocket gun even in 38 special the playing field becomes less of a gap between something like the LCP max and it,,, as a bonus the LCP with 10 rounds often weighs less than the 38 special and is a bit smaller also,,,,, so I'll take the 380 LCP max hands down,,, now if the 380 was only holding 6 7 or only 8 rounds at best then the 38 special would make a bit more sense,,, what is lost on me is why would you carry a 380 that is size compatible to a 9mm????,,,,...
Yeah in the old revolver days it was one per customer and one shot stops
Then come the auto mostly 9 mm it was shoot till the threat was stopped
Now with all the drugs and the two and three to one ratio of bad guys to good guys it's DUMP the mag
I'm phasing out my Snubby also
It's all debatable. Wolf pack comes, you might wound a bunch with small calibers. Or maybe 6 rounds of .357 Mag would be enough. If you literally blow away the first guy, the others probably won't want any of that.
@@GunSam could be truth in that Sam but my money is on not,,,, remember even 357 magnum ISN"T 100% on stopping man size threats,,,close but not quite,,,,, and in modern times with modern and much improved ammo even in the smaller calibers are up to quite a bit more ability to stop a threat than years gone by,,,, you're a reloader so I chalange you,,,, in a 357 magnum of say three inch barrel length, because anything longer starts getting a bit too hard to conceal and carry comfortably,,,, and because at three inch barrel length is where the revolver of even the 6 shot persuasion becomes as big or bigger and as heavy as or heavier than a 4 inch barreled auto packing 15 rounds of 9mm,,,, now add to this the pretty much hard fact that in a 3 inch barrel 357 magnum it's damn hard to exceed the velocities of that of that 4 inch barreled 9mm,,,, example,,,, many loadings are out there of the +p variety for 9mm that will push a 124 grain hollow point bullet to the 1200 to 1300 fps range without much trouble,,,,now while I aint gonna dig out my rather extensive log of reloading and ballistics data I have acquiredover the 40+ years doing just this kind of stuff,,,yes no shit I have been at this crap that long and have even had freinds that worked at or still work at the ballistics labs where CCI/ SPEER bullets/ammo is made ( I will always know it as Omark industries) who I have learned a ton from over the years,, it's kinda my home town Lewistobn Idaho if you chose to believe me,,, so "I have a pretty good grasp on this stuff,,,, and like I say while calibers like 357 are great in longer barrels because they need them to use up all that powder space available that is intended for slow burning powders that means they fall flat when the barrel gets shorter,,,,sure you can exceed what a 9mm (just one example) can muster for raw horsepower,,,but not when the barrel gets short enough to be of comfortable packing size and even at that you are down way more on ammo count have much higher recoil noise and muzzle blast to contend with,,,,I commend you on being faithfull to the revolvers,,,, God knows I love my revolvers and own quite a few,,,they are great for up in the woods where a bad bear or the such is the most likely thing you will face,,, give me a good 44magnum six shooter there hell yes,,,but when it comes to human vermin a 9mm packing no less than 15 rounds in the magazine or a pocket pistol in 380 packing 10 or more if i can get oneis where i am going anymore hands down,,,, it's a whole different storey when you are possibly facing a gun wielding enemy or possiblly morte than just one attacker in general,,,you might think you could do the one shot one kill thing but you would be only playing the fool at that point,,,under the strees of it whatever group size you can make just goofing around will tripple in size under the stress of being attacked like that,,,it's majorly proven to be so,,,, the revolver had it's day and is still a fun range toy but for serious self deffense it just don't hold a candle to an auto, as much as my love for revolvers that hard to admit but it's the truth.
Lose that Taurus and get anything that shoots straight. You should like what you own. And it should run as intended.
I'm just pushing the Algore rhythm.
Insert comment here.
I’d get rid of that horribly inaccurate.38 and use the money on a better gun. Just my thoughts. I have a Ruger SP101 in .38 and at 30 feet distance, the thing shoots like 2-feet high! I think the gun was made on a Monday.
Bump
Carry one of each lol. more guns more fun.
You DO realize that your accuracy at 75 yards is ASTOUNDING? Another useful test of ordinary guns for real people!..............................elsullo
I'll say for you brother, The 38 special Is the winner. I don't want any of them as my daily carry. My life is worth a whole lot more than to risk it Period . I'll just go with the sick and weak or small and weak 40. That's why 327 Sig, 357 mag, 10 mm. Can't go wrong with any of them.
They are not equal because you are using plus P ammo for one why don't you try 380 plus P Underwood extreme defender, that penetrates 15 in and leaves a big wound cavity that will kill that 38 special you got right there
More gun of flubber tests.
Can you capture all nine rounds of 2/34 inch 12 ga 00 buck in a ballistic block?
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