Using Full Metal Jacket for Defense? Ballistic Gel Test! 9mm, .38 Special, .40 S&W and .45 ACP

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 587

  • @kevanhubbard9673
    @kevanhubbard9673 3 ปีที่แล้ว +49

    The .38 was a surprise as I was expecting it to stop in the first quarter of the second block.Shows that you shouldn't underestimate the .38.

    • @chuckhaggard1584
      @chuckhaggard1584 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The difference between the various calibers in this test being the round nose or flat point. RN bullets tend to yaw and penetrate less, FN bullets tend to run straight with no yaw, which is why guys like Elmer Keith used SWCs for large game.

  • @jeremiahjohnson9908
    @jeremiahjohnson9908 3 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Fmj is a killer, just a slower killer....also, wound depth has to be taken into account for overall wounding affect.
    A hollowpoint causes more damage in a shorter distance, a fmj causes less damage but on a longer path, so shot angle, target size and shot placement must all be factored in when choosing ammunition.

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      I carry 9mm NATO 124 gr in my 9's. 180 grFMJ in my 40's, 230 gr FMJ in my 45's and 158 gr LRN in my 38's. I see no reason to spend $ on the hollow point of the week. Hard ball is very underrated in my opinion. I love when I'm buying ammo. They always ask if I want "target" ammo or defense ammo. I laugh and tell them their "target" ammo is my defense ammo. They always get a real confused look on their faces. They really seem to think FMJ is just good for shooting holes in paper.

    • @PetuniaIii-pd1ww
      @PetuniaIii-pd1ww 3 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@shadowwolf2524 We've heard the same...somehow the millions of soldiers and civilians killed over time by ball ammo doesn't register with young people...

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@PetuniaIii-pd1ww I've talked to family members and friends over the years that are combat vets and have used FMJ ammo to take out enemy combatants. They have no complaints and are very comfortable using it in their carry guns now. Their real life experiences carry alot of weight.

    • @Gieszkanne
      @Gieszkanne 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I once read an article which said that statisticaly fmj shots are ending deadly more often than hp.

    • @perplexingperceptions8888
      @perplexingperceptions8888 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      There wasn't much of a difference in cavities between HP & FMJ in the gel.

  • @professorpewpuew
    @professorpewpuew 3 ปีที่แล้ว +58

    I was really surprised by how far the 45 ACP penetrated. I would have guessed only about 20 inches, but its mass, despite its low speed, gave it momentum to keep up with the 9mm. I still think, if I could only have one of these calibers, the 45 would be it. If all I could find is FMJ, I figure I would still be alright.

    • @PetuniaIii-pd1ww
      @PetuniaIii-pd1ww 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Plain old ball ammo of all calibers has put away a lot of people...with .45acp fmj you are likely to have an big entry and a big exit hole, which is never a good feeling for the target...I agree, you would be alright...

    • @exothermal.sprocket
      @exothermal.sprocket 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Lead round balls were nothing to scoff at back in the cap 'n ball black powder revolver days.

    • @m.loughlin1915
      @m.loughlin1915 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      While I am by no means whatsoever a 1911 fan, the 45ACP hardball round has stood the test of time and then some as a manstopper.

    • @exothermal.sprocket
      @exothermal.sprocket 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      IV8888 did a test some time ago on 45acp at increasing distances. From a carbine barrel, the Federal 230gr FMJ penetrated 2-1/4 inch pine lumber at 440 yards. Estimated velocity at that range was 614 fps.

    • @professorpewpuew
      @professorpewpuew 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@exothermal.sprocket I tested round ball in cap and ball revolvers in gel a few years ago. It can't compete with conical bullets in terms of raw penetration, but it gets plenty.... if you don't hit bone. If you hit bone, it will flatten out and flake away from bone and still go quite a ways.

  • @lanedexter6303
    @lanedexter6303 3 ปีที่แล้ว +55

    Interesting! Takes me back. 40+ years ago, I decided I wanted the .45 (I had a .44 special too), because there were no good options for expanding bullets. Col. Cooper suggested a 9mm handload for the Speer 125JSP that was considerably hotter than anything in the manuals, and he handloaded a 200SWC in .45, so basically it was down to the old system of going with bigger bullets if you wanted more stopping power. Today we have many great options, but I’d still feel decently armed with .45 ball.

    • @dennisthurman8161
      @dennisthurman8161 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I was just wondering I have a Taurus G2c in 40 cal and the 40 cal flat nose bullets seem like they kind of balk when being chambered,they go on in but not smooth like my round nose 9mm,have you had any similar actions with your Smith and Wesson 40.i have polished the feed ramp also, and I don't know if it's the flat nose or the bullet case where the bullet is pushed in it seems like there is always a ridge at that part where the bullet meets the case,and thanks for a great video and the 38 penetration surprised me as well.

    • @mattnw42
      @mattnw42 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@dennisthurman8161 the ratio of diameter to length in the .40 is terrible. It is a short, fat cartridge. The best feeding auto pistol rounds are bottle-knecked, 10mm, and .38 super

    • @sogosensei
      @sogosensei ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Agreed

    • @themudshark1106
      @themudshark1106 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I had a friend who was a MASH Medic in the Korean War he saw body's hit with .45 ACP 230 grain hardball and said it blew big holes out the back.

    • @lanedexter6303
      @lanedexter6303 ปีที่แล้ว

      When no expanding bullet ammo is available, it helps to start out with bullets that are “pre-expanded.”😉@@themudshark1106

  • @jtns2845
    @jtns2845 3 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    fmj hardball ammo has been killing our enemies for 120+ years. uncle sam gave it to me in 1972. i have never bought any so called defensive handgun ammo, either the product or the idea behind it. i am so happy to see folks crowding an ammo counter looking for the wonder rounds, leaves more ball ammo for me.

    • @sosuapimp8449
      @sosuapimp8449 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Agreed,Hollowpoints are overated. 2 well placed FMJ rounds beats 1 hollow point round

    • @leonardpiskacsr.7111
      @leonardpiskacsr.7111 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      As an ARMY M.P. who used 45acp 230gr.Ball I agree have no Hesitation trusting my life to Ball Ammo....Shot Placement is and Always has Been Key!!!😉

    • @DustinSilva
      @DustinSilva 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hollow Points are effective at creating a bigger wound, but they are also intended to stop over penetration, thus reducing the chance at hitting a bystander, or someone in the next room. Just what Ive seen online/been told, never done these tests in person or had to use a weapon defensively. That said, Id trust my life with both, though I have my defensive guns loaded with JHP's, with a stack of mags for each loaded with FMJ's.

    • @davidh9659
      @davidh9659 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@sosuapimp8449 with that logic there's no way to justify going 45 over any of the smaller.

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Roger that !

  • @factsoftheconfederacy7151
    @factsoftheconfederacy7151 3 ปีที่แล้ว +172

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the .45 ACP is underrated today.

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 3 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      Roger that ! I'm an old timer. For years,45 hardball was the bullet. Now it's treated like it's a BB gun. I still believe in it. One of my house guns is a 45 auto loaded up with 230 gr FMJ. I have no doubts about it stopping a bad guy.

    • @biggunshandguns3687
      @biggunshandguns3687 3 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      I agree the 45 had been with me for a long time and just picked up another for my edc. The 9 has little recoil and high velocity and capacity so if you don't train are recoil shy and believe in ft lbs energy b.s. you'll love the 9mm. But for me it's a 45 because shooting someone twice is just silly

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@biggunshandguns3687 And too expensive !

    • @guarddog318
      @guarddog318 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@shadowwolf2524 - They are all too expensive these days.

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@guarddog318 My local Academy now has ammo-finally. But their 115 gr Federal FMJ is $22 a box. They have a 4 box limit and it's flying off the shelves! And my local gun shop here in town wants $30 a box for the same ammo. I'm glad I stocked up on everything when it was normal price and available. I haven't had to buy this overpriced stuff. Now my wife understands why I was buying all that ammo every week. And friends that laughed at me then are trying to buy ammo from me now. But it's not for sell.

  • @red9man2130
    @red9man2130 3 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    Sam I knew (from experience) that the .45 due to inertia and low pressure was going to excel at distance. What surprised me was the penetration on gel! Back in the day when I lived in Texas I was given a large quantity of steel cased .45 acp ball from ww2! WE shot it in a junkyard at an old ford pickup truck. The jackets were steel so it,s penetration on auto body steel was impressive. The 9mm seems to yaw considerably more than I would have suspected. Ball DOES overpenetrate AND the Medium calibers really seem to shine with hollow point ammo the most as opposed to small calibers like .25,.32 and .380. The really big calibers like .44,.45 and .40 are already at the size other rounds are looking to get to. The take away from all this is that do not underestimate ball rounds! They are still very lethal.

    • @rob6850
      @rob6850 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      It amazes me how much the .45 penetrates, without even breaking 900 fps.

    • @supergreatairgunreviews
      @supergreatairgunreviews 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The reason it penetrates is because it's going slow. When the projectile is moving faster it displaces it's energy faster, and penetrates less.

    • @andybreglia9431
      @andybreglia9431 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Lethal, but they can over penetrate and hit noncombatants. On a battlefield, this is not an issue, anything downrange is considered hostile, not so in self defense shootings.

    • @supergreatairgunreviews
      @supergreatairgunreviews 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@andybreglia9431 Ya that's what makes +p hollowpoints great in pistols. Lots of energy dispersed very quickly, with no over-penetration. Heavy and slow rounds, aka .45, will penetrate further but isn't necessarily better.

    • @filippocorti6760
      @filippocorti6760 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@supergreatairgunreviews Yep, more momentum means it loses it's energy at a slower rate when it hits something.

  • @billss396
    @billss396 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I want that sign below the gel. Perfect example of truth in advertising.

  • @jimreed6875
    @jimreed6875 3 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    I was really surprised at the penetration of the .38. It had such low energy that I didn't expect it to penetrate nearly as much as it did.

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Same here. I mean, for a .38 standard pressure, over 200 FPE is pretty respectable, but I assumed it would be like the round nose FMJ I recently tested that stopped at around 20", and the energy was close to the same. So that flat point really made a difference.

    • @PetuniaIii-pd1ww
      @PetuniaIii-pd1ww 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@GunSam was that round nose .38 shot at a similar target...? we have 125gr hornady loaded, but in a pinch we have mostly 158gr ball, and I'd like to think the target ammo is somewhat viable...

    • @0BRAINS0
      @0BRAINS0 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@GunSam do you own any black powder revolvers? My pietta 1860 colt .44 caliber with an 8 inch barrel , .454 sized ball,does about 950-1100 fps with 30 grain pyrodex pellets.

    • @lethenhitch9439
      @lethenhitch9439 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It is small diameter and did not tumble like the 9 mm

    • @ernestdement4869
      @ernestdement4869 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@GunSamIt's physics. For every action there's an opposite reaction. Sometimes you'll see that even 357 magnum will penetrate less than a 38 special. More speed doesn't necessarily mean more penetration. Body tissue will resist and push back against the force of a bullet and a faster impact means more resistance.

  • @nathanlambshead4778
    @nathanlambshead4778 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The more I see HST in tests, the happier I am that I bought a couple boxes recently. Planning on rotating my carry rounds with them. My preferred round is the Gold Dot 124 grn +P, but now i have the 124 grn HST +P as well. A confident with either one.

  • @drewmoore365
    @drewmoore365 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Thanks Sam was looking forward to this

  • @yellowboxster06
    @yellowboxster06 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    FWIW: I agree with your assessment. However, the M&P 40S&W kind of impressed me as well. In my case, I generally carry a Colt Defender in 45ACP. Hands down the two rounds this little gun seems to like the best: Flat nose 185 gr FMJ and the Federal HST 185 gr +P JHP.

    • @northernninety7
      @northernninety7 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      My 1911 prefers 185 as well.

    • @bigclen6456
      @bigclen6456 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Where in the world are you finding 185gr +p hst never seen it.

  • @franklinAll8735
    @franklinAll8735 3 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Cool. I think flat points may have a little edge because of better energy transfer & shock. Just a thought before watching.

    • @lanedexter6303
      @lanedexter6303 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Yep a flat point is an improvement over round. So if you must have FMJ, make it a flat point. 👍

    • @richardziemies8247
      @richardziemies8247 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@lanedexter6303 with my revolvers,I use a semi wadcutter flatpoint. Especially in my 1st gen JM .45 AUTORIM LOADS.

    • @lanedexter6303
      @lanedexter6303 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@richardziemies8247 yep, takes us back to Uncle Elmer saying “big bullets let out more blood and let in more air.” A big flat point with full caliber cutting shoulder proved reliable many years before we had good expanding bullets.

  • @mikegoldstein8168
    @mikegoldstein8168 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I've done a lot of testing of 230 gr 45 ball in water jugs, and in virtually every test, at many different velocities, they always tumbled, as witnessed by keyholes after the first jug. In fact they tumbled in every jug into the 5th jug.
    Jim Higginbotham, in his article "The Case For The 45 acp," noted the following:
    "FMJ-RN often tumbles on game in the 200 pound range giving about 14 - 18 inches of penetration"
    The 230 gr 45 ball does not tumble in ballistic gel, but in flesh and blood the story seems to be different.
    This tumbling effect, along with good shot placement, may be the reason Alvin York was able to dispatch over 5 attacking men with one shot from his 1911.
    A tumbling 45 acp is close to .7 inches measured base to nose, and creates a large wound channel.

    • @DanTheWolfman
      @DanTheWolfman 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Nice post

    • @gtmike916
      @gtmike916 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And that’s why I’m confused to why this man said 9mm did more damage. The 45 ACP LITERALLY tumbled through the ballistics gel and it was one shot. The 9mm had two shots going through.

    • @timd729
      @timd729 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@gtmike916 lol, it seems like he forgot he put 2 rounds of 9mm through the same hole. He was saying 9mm looked similar to 45.. no it did not. The 45 clearly made a bigger hole in the gel.

  • @red9man2130
    @red9man2130 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Sam it always amazed me that more ammo makers do not offer a wider variety of FLAT POINT BALL!

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      As knowledgeable as I am on ammo, I never really understood the reason why .40 is not in a round nose FMJ. I have never truly researched that question, but I assume there's a reason why.

    • @robertlemaster7525
      @robertlemaster7525 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      A lot of older auto loading guns were designed with the standard round nose configuration as well as a tapered case (I'm looking at you 9mm parabellum from 1902!) as a way to enhance feed reliability. If you don't believe me look at some of the first generations of auto loaders. Their feed ramps are steep, narrow and very unforgiving.
      Trying a superior terminal shape of a flat nose or God forbid a hollow point on these early guns would be almost suicidal. So most producers try to accommodate the widest variety of firearms for the best feed functioning, even though modern autos consume probably 95% of current handgun ammo sales.
      So you are correct, this lack of bullet nose diversity really doesn't have much basis in reality anymore.

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@GunSam I've always had the same question about the 40 SW.

    • @maxtheroofer8004
      @maxtheroofer8004 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      the reason .40S&W is Flat point, is because it needs to fit in standard 9mm sized magazines and frames.

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@maxtheroofer8004 That makes since. Thanks for the info.

  • @Jack72607
    @Jack72607 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Here in Italy where I live jhp rounds are outlawed for LE use as well as personal defense so Fmj is 99,99% of what is used in gunfights. I have spoken with a coroner and he thought there wasn’t any great difference between pistol calibers but definitely thought the 9mm fmj to be a bit more lethal than .45 or .40 fmj because of its propensity to tumble. .45 acp ball can be devastating when hitting dense bone like the pelvis but will just plough through soft tissue pushing it aside at low speed, 9x19 will almost always upset and tumble at speed inside a torso after 4-6 inches (vital organs depth) leaving a noticeably larger permanent wound cavity for a few inches , especially in liver tissue. Said that it can be seen with .38 spl and .380 acp as well but less pronounced. Just like with rifle rounds, if you can’t use expansion tumbling behavior is much more important than caliber in determining lethality (just like 7n6 vs m43)

    • @robwilson3749
      @robwilson3749 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      If you ever have an opportunity to read the report or a synopsis of the report on the Biggy Smalls shooting, I believe you will find that your coroner acquaintance is quite correct indeed. 124gr. 9mm. FMJ did the fellow in and it was an astounding read as to what those pills did to the poor fellows insides.

  • @biggunshandguns3687
    @biggunshandguns3687 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thanks for another cool and fun video that teaches us all something useful. Your 25yd shots are getting faster and faster. The 38 days speed and hits were impressive. The 75yd shots were very impressive. Who ever thought up shooting at steel targets would be fun was a smart man.
    Thanks again for a cool video and as always you make learning fun

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for watching.

  • @mountainhobo
    @mountainhobo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    .32 ACP would have been nice to add for comparison. I have a feeling FMJ would look just fine alongside its bigger brothers.

    • @selaxlife7621
      @selaxlife7621 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I currently own a tomcat 32 acp and I use 72 grain.....its pretty stout..considering it's size. (That's what she said)

    • @simplydesaninitaly1644
      @simplydesaninitaly1644 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      32 ACP or S&W L wouldn't overpenetrate...

    • @sparky_-mf2cs
      @sparky_-mf2cs ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@selaxlife7621 its not stout at all 😂 i have the same.pistol

  • @turbo-bike7999
    @turbo-bike7999 3 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    I would argue the 45 also had a larger temporary cavity than any of the lesser diameter rounds. Aside from hole diameter, the temporary cavity is the one which moves things out of the way or more accurately, forces the surrounding media to accelerate from nothing to 830fps and back to nothing. The old question, would you rather get hit with a baseball or the baseball bat?

    • @OTSOBerg-pn5gm
      @OTSOBerg-pn5gm 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Depends on whose throwing the baseball.

    • @onpsxmember
      @onpsxmember 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The momentary cavity doesn't matter as long as the elastic threshold isn't exceeded and that doesn't happen at handgun velocities.

    • @ladonnaghareeb4609
      @ladonnaghareeb4609 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@OTSOBerg-pn5gm I'd chose neither one thank you.

    • @turbolegend3976
      @turbolegend3976 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@onpsxmember not all organs are very elastic though. Temporary wound cavities would destroy organs lacking elasticity.

    • @onpsxmember
      @onpsxmember 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@turbolegend3976
      Are you suggesting that matters cause you'd aim for the gallbladder or the liver based on a lower Young's modulus? Keep in mind that there is a lot in the way to make room and share the stress if not hit directly and the mechanism behind hydraulic based damage further from the impact is to start a tear and that takes a lot more velocity than handgun rounds.

  • @Me2Lancer
    @Me2Lancer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    When I served in the Navy in the mid-1960s we carried a 1911 with .45 acp fmj rounds.

  • @Maddog2047
    @Maddog2047 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Sam, Good test and video. I agree with your conclusion about the 45 APC. I love this round and trust my life on it. Good job and keep up the good work!

  • @danoneill2846
    @danoneill2846 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    RE double action @ 75 yds , most people won't do well at that , looks like you pulled to the right . At that range , easy to do . I would go single action when ever I had time if past 15 yds . That 45 did good !! I like that Glock !!

  • @jeffersondavis2530
    @jeffersondavis2530 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The best reviews of cartridges out there. Some myths are exposed and some are proven.

  • @electrochubb
    @electrochubb 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This test was great, I'm amazed the 38 slid thru all the test material. Almost armor-piercing level.
    Sam's tests are the best of the best on YT...Thanks Sam.!

  • @m.loughlin1915
    @m.loughlin1915 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Hardball definitely its place.
    In my SHTF stash, I have 250 rounds of full power 357 Magnum I55 grain conical nose FMJ just in case I need to penetrate a car door or the gas tank. 1450 fps from a 4 5/8" barrel. Just shy of 1500 from a 6 incher.
    Not joking. You never know what's happen if the fan ever does get hit......with $%iT!!

    • @m.loughlin1915
      @m.loughlin1915 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Correction of previous post.......only 200 rounds stashed!!
      Used up 50 last year on some old damaged 55 gallon drums and finding my sight adjustment at 100 yds. Funnest range day ever.
      I won't say here what the loading info is but I took it from the infamous Speer #8 reloading book from 1970. Back when magnums were REAL MAGNUMS. Use caution.
      From sandbags on the bench, 5 or 6 inch groups @ 100 yds. No problem hitting a 11.5" gong @ 100 yds. standing Weaver stance. All you young whippers with your plastic squirt-gun looking 9mms don't know what you're missing!
      Happy shooting!
      Toodles.

  • @hk93shooter
    @hk93shooter 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    it has kind of gone to the way side , but the 40 bore is still my favorite.sig p229,g23. also 10mm for woods cary. back when it first came out , then gaining popularity in the mid 90's. early 2000. i would fill my bags with 40sw brass every range trip. everybody had new guns and not to many reloading it. i have a life time supply i think. nice video.

  • @livincincy4498
    @livincincy4498 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Good topic & presentation.
    Expansion consumes Bullet energy. The retained Velocity after over penetration tells a lot. The 45 Hard Ball has shown 50%+ retained Velocity after over penetration.
    When you look back shooting lighter bullets was all they had to avoid over penetration. John Browning was a pretty good balistition. His 380 ACP was on par with 38 S&W.
    While hollow points expand they typically do not make an exit hole. That is by design. If you miss a vital critical wound shot by 1/8 +/- inch the hollow point will hit it. Will this always reduce the number of shots required ?
    Quick, accurate, follow up shots in Bullseye Shooting are typically done with slow moving and light for caliber bullets. The range is 25 or 50 yards. Putting (10) holes in the #10 & X ring at this distance makes doing it at only 7 yards easy. You don't need expansion with critical hits.

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you.

  • @andrewprice1774
    @andrewprice1774 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This just shows that shot placement is the most important thing!!!

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Not really. If you have an anemic caliber or cartridge that cannot stop a threat immediately despite ultimately a lethal hit, it's definitely not the most important thing. Not even close.

  • @alexsw7777
    @alexsw7777 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    As usual, awesome Video.
    I was very interested in seeing the .40 Flat Nose Penetration (woods defensive ammo) but it wasn't very clear to me if it went sidewise or what happened to it. That is for comparison against Hard-Cast Solids or other fancy ammo such as Xtreme Hunter or Xtreme Penetrators. I'm under the impression that FMJ Flat Nose perhaps perform almost the same as these other fancier ammo.

  • @craigcanales5589
    @craigcanales5589 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I’ve been a fan of 9mm ball for some time. I have reason to be confident in this cartridge particularly the NATO configuration. Thanks for this demonstration.

  • @traviscochran6280
    @traviscochran6280 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I use fmj ammo in my Beretta model 81. I figure I need the penetration with that cartridge. I also go with ball ammo in my 1911 .45 because it feeds that type of ammo reliably and it's twice the weight of a 9mm and starts out about as large as a 9mm jhp expands to.

  • @rorybybee5937
    @rorybybee5937 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I would have thought that the .38 would have had less penetration given its slower velocity and lighter weight. You did quite well with the 75 yard shooting.

  • @danoneill2846
    @danoneill2846 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Near 30 K Subs !! Great Job !!

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks.

    • @rob6850
      @rob6850 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Criminally underrated, in my opinion. Doing the type of tests Paul Harrell used to do more of, but broader scope and more consistent methodology than Paul. Good shit 👍🏻

    • @Gieszkanne
      @Gieszkanne 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He deserved at least one 0 more!

  • @andycraig6905
    @andycraig6905 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    .40 s&w ball is surprisingly effective

  • @nailswood167
    @nailswood167 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Every time you shoot that .38 Special revolver, I am impressed with your accuracy and precision. Your insights into misses are fantastic. It is obvious that practice makes better. But, it isn’t always as apparent that practice with multiple firearms makes you more quickly adaptable and skilled in what is likely to be most firearms…And, for 75 rds you riddled that target area and scored a whack of hits!

  • @LowIQinHQ
    @LowIQinHQ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    The 45 acp is the only reason why aliens haven’t visited

  • @v.german11b
    @v.german11b 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another excellent, practical ballistic test offering information for individual conclusions. Well done 👏🏼

  • @nathanmanley4203
    @nathanmanley4203 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think you should dip into the .357SIG in these semiautomatic tests

  • @bobcatforever3485
    @bobcatforever3485 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Good video. Interesting comparison of the various calibers. Take care.

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks!

  • @DrHanes
    @DrHanes 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Very interesting, thank you!

  • @davidlee8551
    @davidlee8551 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great demonstration. Thanks.

  • @SheikOutdoors
    @SheikOutdoors 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    was about to type in 380 fmj for defense then saw this at the top of the recommended, convenient coincidence

  • @jackboone9416
    @jackboone9416 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have 9 40 45 been shooting them catching rounds in things for years. 40 makes a big enough hole with fmj hits hard enough and will most likely stop in the person if not pop out 10 feet and land on the ground. To many people worried about over penetration with a pistol especially with 9 thinking it’s a laser beam that goes though 5 houses. I’ve seen accidental discharges they just end up in the wall or bounce off shit and land on the ground in the weirdest gemetrical way

  • @MichaelWilliams-nu6lv
    @MichaelWilliams-nu6lv 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I carry the Glock model 41 in 45 caliber and I always trust the 45 over other calibers ♠️

  • @josealvarado4996
    @josealvarado4996 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Woow I definitely was not expecting that much penetration from a fmj 38 special it's very impressive

  • @CeltKnight
    @CeltKnight 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is a timely production as I've heard some folks who are out of/can't find good JHP ammo have resorted to toting FMJs on the presumption that A bullet is better than NO bullet (and we know FMJ will do the job, FBI even says JHPs aren't really "more" effective -- the problem is greater chance of a downrange hazard). Of course, the downrange threat is even greater with rounds that miss so whatever is in one's gun, they need to be sure they can HIT the bad guy.

  • @guarddog318
    @guarddog318 3 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    Somehow I just can't imagine someone getting hit with 9mm ball saying "Oh stop... that tickles!"
    As far as overpenetration goes... as long as the bullet doesn't travel half a block while retaining enough energy to kill an unintended person, I'm good with the bad guy/gal having holes that start on one side of 'em and go all the way to the other.
    But then I live in the middle of nowhere, not in a crowded city, so my situation is different than many other people's.

    • @PetuniaIii-pd1ww
      @PetuniaIii-pd1ww 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Yup, two holes with the same bullet can't be a good feeling for bad guys...

    • @guarddog318
      @guarddog318 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@PetuniaIii-pd1ww - Oh I don't want but one hole... I just want the doc to be able to see through it to the other side. 😉

    • @jeepsblackpowderandlights4305
      @jeepsblackpowderandlights4305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@guarddog318 its actually better if the bullet stays in the body... the doctor has to dig into you to get the bullet out.. if it goes through and it isnt a kill shot then they just stitch you up

    • @guarddog318
      @guarddog318 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@jeepsblackpowderandlights4305 - You've been watching too many western movies.
      It doesn't matter where the bullet ends up, as long as it hits the right things while it's inside the body.
      A bullet that hits an arm, then passes through the ribs and into the lung, only to stop before reaching the heart, might not stop an attacker.
      One that keeps going and exits the other side probably will.
      ( A person isn't always going to stand squarely facing you. They may present you with a lateral shot, or some angle in between. ) ( See the 1986 "Miami Shootout" for an instance of this happening. )
      And who cares what happens to the person after the shooting? The goal is to stop the person doing whatever it is/was that cause you to shoot them.
      Stitch them up... bury them... it's all the same to me. So long as they haven't shot or stabbed me before they fell down, I don't have a problem with anything that happens to 'em afterward.

    • @jeepsblackpowderandlights4305
      @jeepsblackpowderandlights4305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@guarddog318 no what im saying is real life as well. Its better if a bullet or arrow passes through if it hit places non vital. Than for the bullet to stay inside. I dont care either way. I use fmj not hollow points. Im not worried about over penetration

  • @linguisticman
    @linguisticman 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hey, I know you hear this alot, but thanks for putting time/money into these tests. They teach me quite a bit, and yes I am subscribed.

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thanks. I hear it, but not as much as I would like to so thanks again. During the first day of posting a video I do get a lot of praise from my normal subs, but if I get comments on an older video it's usually "you done it wrong" type of comments mostly lol.

  • @JohnDoe-du6yi
    @JohnDoe-du6yi 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    In the end you were talking about the lighter bullets doing weird things at long distance. That is them Unstabilizing as they drop down through the sound bearer.

  • @joshuabrown4030
    @joshuabrown4030 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The .45 and 9mm did about what I'd expect. Both were designed to go through a man within 100 yards according to the ideas of what was desirable militarily circa 1900.
    38 special punching through the block was a real surprise, though!

  • @alanjackson4104
    @alanjackson4104 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I load fmj on really cold days when i may be looking going through several inches of clothing.

  • @redesert_boy8202
    @redesert_boy8202 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Appreciate making the comparisons....as others have noted .45ACP is underrated, however as you have also noted the .45 ACP is not as much for everybody as the 9mm. As .45 ACP capacity is almost always less than 9mm, it is good thing the longer sight radius and barrel help in the accuracy as you have less rounds available to miss with. Thanks Gun Sam sir!

    • @redesert_boy8202
      @redesert_boy8202 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SuperD00D Good points….I think it comes down to purpose, preference, and skills. If the intended purpose dictates the need for a bullet with more mass such as living where the threat is different like large wildlife encounters than just urban/suburban concerns then in todays world many might choose 10mm over 45 or .357. Also, your skills and comfort level with the weapon of choice are important i.e. if you do not like shooting it or it’s not what you shoot best then find the one that does those things. Just because someone may have a favorite cartridge like say .45 Colt or .45 ACP doesn’t mean their EDC isn’t a 9mm 80-85% of the time as most would agree this meets the self defense requirement with a wide variety of weapon, ammo, and holster choice. Be safe and well sir.

  • @dk1480
    @dk1480 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In hollow points, more velocity leads to less penetration, this is apparent in carbine vs handgun tests (.357, etc). It may be the same thing happening here OR flat point bullets simply have more penetration regardless.

    • @filianablanxart8305
      @filianablanxart8305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What's happening is that properly designed Truncated Cone or SWC bullets are more Stable . ie if they remain point forwards with minimal yawing , they will penetrate farther ( and straighter ) .
      Round Nose bullets , depending upon ogive and length , are more likely to tumble . The 158gr Lead RN around which the .38 Special was designed circa 1899 , and was the default " basic " bullet for 100 plus years is more likely to tumble and/ or slightly deform than the shorter 130 gr FMJ .
      * If both penetrate point forwards * , a flat meplat ( flat part of the nose) will create some degree of more tissue damage , and somewhat larger diameter wound channel . But a tumbling bullet will make more damage than a point forwards bullet .
      Which is " more better " ? All depends on preference and context . For hunting or large animal defense , deep straight penetration is ( usually or often ) desired . For anti personnel , maximum damage within the torso is desired , and whatever remaining energy remains after passing thru is at best wasted . and at worst a hazard in itself .

    • @dk1480
      @dk1480 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@filianablanxart8305 judging by the wound tracks, ball ammo did more damage via tumbling than flat nose bullets, did not expect that. There is a post from buffalo bore stating that flat nose bullets are more effective than round nose because they crush tissue instead of slipping through, so it's crushed tissue vs tumble wound track. I reckon one ballistic dummy vs shotgun test where he used ballistic torso simulation with bones and organs, 00 buckshot which penetrate between 14-18 inches in gel, in this video pellets reached the back and almost exited, so ball ammo may tumble inside of a vital organ.

  • @kenleedy9132
    @kenleedy9132 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    don't blame the wind when there isn't any. love the chanel.

  • @stephanmackie5281
    @stephanmackie5281 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video.
    I’m commenting early but hope you run the 9mm again. Surely you’d have different results and maybe a pass through. Would have thought for sure the 124 in 9 would have zipped through both blocks like the .40. And can’t believe the weak .38 did what It did, holy shiznit. That’s one caliber I can’t believe they still make ammo for. Really appreciate the fmj’s in rhe clear ballistics. Surely there’s someone else who’s done it but I havnt been able to find it if they’ve got on TH-cam. You’ve got a bunch of good videos. Keepem comin please sir

  • @LionquestFitness
    @LionquestFitness 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Rough and long week. Nice to kick back and chill out with Gun Sam and Legacy Collectables.

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks you. I have seen a few of their videos.

    • @DanTheWolfman
      @DanTheWolfman 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Indeed greg.

  • @williambeasley2582
    @williambeasley2582 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Way back in ancient times when I was at the Alabama state police academy we were issued a model 10 service revolver that had probably been around in the 1940s. Next issue was 38 special ammo no hollow points or wad cutters and no plus p ammo long about 1990 we started receiving some 9MM semiautomatic pistols . Damn am I that old lol

    • @davehoward2791
      @davehoward2791 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Damn brother, I remember being pulled over by the Phenix City police dept. back in the late ‘70’s early ‘80’s and the officer had a S&W .41 Magnum on his hip. He got no trouble from me, lol.

  • @mkshffr4936
    @mkshffr4936 ปีที่แล้ว

    I failed to mention that I appreciate this test as it is almost impossible to find gel tests for the .38-40 but since it is a ballistic twin to the .40 S&W this subs pretty well.

  • @johngregory4801
    @johngregory4801 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another reason to enjoy the fact that I've never shot a pistol more comfortably than a 1911. Oddly enough, it was the WW II Remington Rand that sold me, the High Bling $5,000 one I shot malf'd before I finished the first magazine. (Failed to go into battery) My old S&W 659 was a tack driver and I loved it...
    But once I shot that ancient warrior, I was hooked.

  • @RamPatriot
    @RamPatriot ปีที่แล้ว

    Good info. I’ve carried 9mm FMJ in backup mag, guess I should rethink that practice.

  • @jimmyruger7529
    @jimmyruger7529 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I must say brother Sam, good video, n great Ruger hat !

  • @CraigTodd-x9d
    @CraigTodd-x9d 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The problem with alot of 45 acp jhp's is penetration..which with proper shot placement is far more important than expansion imo. A 9mm jhp may or may not expand properly but a good ole 45 hard ball doesn't shrink ;)

  • @johnnorman7708
    @johnnorman7708 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hornady did a flat point FMJ for and with the USAF. I LIKED that 230 grain .45 bullet. Accurate. The 124 grain 9mm version was an improvement over round nose no doubt, but I didn't use that one as much.

  • @Lucas12v
    @Lucas12v 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I shoot defensive style handguns at 50-100 yards pretty often for fun and I've noticed a large difference in accuracy between brands of ammo. On top of that velocity has a bigger impact on poi than you might expect. My point is that it's hard to judge a firearm or yourself too much based on a particular load. Still, pretty good shooting and very good testing.
    I generally prefer 9mm for capacity/gun selection/training cost but if i had to carry fmj, I'd choose 45 even though i have no scientific evidence for it other than feeling/nostalgia.

  • @ethanmac639
    @ethanmac639 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    .40 s&w is my favorite and ideal cartridge caliber, but 180gr was always too heavy for the .40 s&w, great for the 10mm auto though, between 135gr minimum and 165gr maximum parameters is best, with 155gr/150gr bullet weight being ideal

  • @marco529
    @marco529 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You should try recreating James Arness's shot from Them, a 2" antenna from 50 ft. with a 2"snubby.

    • @classicgunstoday1972
      @classicgunstoday1972 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Or James Whitmore’s 100 ft with a 4” service revolver.

  • @onpsxmember
    @onpsxmember 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I'd love to see the gel test at a further distance. When will hp no longer open?

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It's hard to do. I have thought about it and the only legit way to do it, is to simulate a hand load that will replicate 25-50 yard velocity.

    • @onpsxmember
      @onpsxmember 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@GunSam
      Or a table with a bag...I know, I know...hard to transport there. If you can hit that steel at 75 yards, you can hit the gel at 50 yards on a foldable workbench with a bag. It'd be an adventure.^^
      Or GiGn style with a bipod on a rail or one of those tripods the prs guys use. You could do a lot more tests if it works out instead of working a lot on those handloads. The journey to the setup would make a good video series.

    • @filianablanxart8305
      @filianablanxart8305 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's still only partial replication . In flight , the forwards velocity slows much faster than the rotational spin , ie RPM . Does that effect expansion of expanding bullets ? Maybe . Maybe sometimes . Does it effect the likelihood of Tumbling ? Absolutely !
      More relevant than long distances , is differing muzzle velocities with pistols of different bbl lengths , especially when advertised velocities don't have much margin over expansion thresholds . Think 4 inch vs 2 inch .38 Special , Beretta M85 vs subcompact in .380 , full size Government Model vs Commander or Officers size in .45acp , etc where it was historically a design challenge to expand acceptably in all bbl lengths .

  • @robertmartin2387
    @robertmartin2387 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    147 grain semi-wad cutter in the .38!

  • @patricknolan1625
    @patricknolan1625 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just stumbled upon your channel, while falling through the TH-cam vortex...good stuff. Time to binge all your videos. 😁

  • @mattkaiser8984
    @mattkaiser8984 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think over penetration would be bad. One, I don’t want a projectile to continue. Two, the pass through could potentially do less damage. Three, the pass through will perhaps “hit” softer.
    I’d imagine the energy transfer of the hollow point was greater than the energy transfer of the FMJ.
    I’d love to see a way of quantifying energy transfer and physical shock.

  • @chrisgabbert658
    @chrisgabbert658 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    👍 good info ,first you have to hit the 🎯 and what you can handle for recoil.

  • @crusiethmaximuss
    @crusiethmaximuss 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I was honestly surprised by the .38's performance during this test.

  • @ronaldhaylock6958
    @ronaldhaylock6958 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The last bag of bullets I bought were 158 gr FPRN copper plated lead. Knowing these are actually swaged, not hard cast, it would be great to see how these compare to factory hardball when hand loaded to the same velocities.

  • @raouldukejj
    @raouldukejj 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dude I think we all wanna see more bologna packs. If your gonna run mostly ballistic gel nowadays, you should put bologna pack, mdf, then gel block. The gel shows the wound channel which is good, but the bologna is so dramatic, it's good content

  • @brianshuler6951
    @brianshuler6951 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    In defensive applications, there are no FMJ ammo winners when compared to comparable premium JHP/balistic tip ammunition.

  • @MC-uj4co
    @MC-uj4co 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Good old 45acp fmj is hard to beat

  • @Patriotx-gx4ce
    @Patriotx-gx4ce 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    FMJ is the round used by militaries for specific reason that they kill very well and travel longer and are more accurate.
    Hollow point is "civilian" ammo marketed as safe as it wont over penetrate.

  • @scubaguy007
    @scubaguy007 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Nice comparison. .45 for the win?! Who’d a thunk it? 😉

    • @filianablanxart8305
      @filianablanxart8305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      When it's apples vs apples vs apples for FMJ , Bigger ( diameter) actually Is Better .

  • @adamkaminski
    @adamkaminski 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Since I saw some .45 HP ammo consistently expand to 1 inch (that's a significant hole and damage) and having amazing penetration too, why would I use ball ammo? Ps: it also goes through a car door and a wind shield...

  • @ratagris21
    @ratagris21 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great presentation, and shooting Sam. Nice to see these FMJs in a side by side comparison. 🎩☯️♠️

  • @sergiorives7031
    @sergiorives7031 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excelente trabajo ! muchas gracias !!

  • @bigtoad45
    @bigtoad45 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I understand the concept of over penetration and agree for home defense it is something to consider. But for SHTF I stock up with Igman 124gr FMJ. I take accuracy over anything else and the Igmans are damn accurate in all of my firearms.

  • @bluetick71
    @bluetick71 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    with a FMJ you want the penetration that's to shoot through things your threat is behind ,the 40 would be the best round for this

    • @MaddenMagician
      @MaddenMagician 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Heavier bullets penetrate more why not just use 45 super if that's your issue

    • @bluetick71
      @bluetick71 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MaddenMagician the 40 is the right balance between the 9 and the 45 more speed than the 45 more mass than the 9 the 40 out preforms the 9 and the 45

    • @MaddenMagician
      @MaddenMagician 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@bluetick71 but the performance is meaningless both guns aren't very dangerous there's been numerous studies they all kill and fail around the same rate so I want a gun that's more accurate I want a gun that I could do more with like change it to Rowland or make it very quiet with the suppressor. The 40 makes no sense is probably the worst round ever created just go 10 mm if you want a high pressure round. 357 sig outperforms 40 every time as well but again these bullets aren't inherently dangerous. You want a gun that's going to bring you close to hydrostatic shock get a 10 mm and put Liberty civil defense in it you're going to be getting a bullet going 2400 ft per second this is a carbine

  • @sisleymichael
    @sisleymichael ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a 45 ACP load with a 200gr lead SWC (medium hardness) that chronographs at 900fps. I have shot several hogs with that round. The results are impressive. I have recovered about half of the rounds on the off side of the animal and the other half exiting. Because the lead is not hard cast, they still expand, not like a HP, but s decent amount. No lost hogs as the farthest one ran was about 30yds. I did once shoot an opportunity hog with a 230gr RN bullet FMJ, Blazer ammo. It did not exit, and that one was maybe 20yds away. The bullet was deformed some as it went right through the shoulder bone due to the hog quartering towards me slightly. It was a bang flop and the heart was destroyed. Gel is not a perp, just as a pig is not either. If over penetration is not an issue, I cannot see why as a defensive load, the RN 230gr will work.

  • @scottphipps3577
    @scottphipps3577 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is exactly what I wanted to see from the 38 for large animal defense, in case I am unable to find 357 mag hardcast at some point.

  • @ernest9606
    @ernest9606 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cool video Sam. Love all your videos.
    ..I personally believe when it comes to defense I would us HP ammo. That being said I prefer the 45 acp fmj than a hallow point. You just can't trust the 45 to expand ever time. And it's bigger than
    9mm that dues expand.

  • @JB-cs4jt
    @JB-cs4jt 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    These look like they would make a decent woods Carry load.

  • @bhunterbmw335is2
    @bhunterbmw335is2 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Technically speaking penetration is what is most important, and that wound channel from the 9 FMJ was bigger than the hst

  • @danoneill2846
    @danoneill2846 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    They all fall to Hard Ball ......... Paul Harrel has used 45 acp wt bx , in lots of testing , it has always done well against all wiz bang rounds . Mostly not the first choice , lots better than a sharp stick . BTW in full size 10mm FM Case flat point @ more Vel would likely win as the most useful .

    • @factsoftheconfederacy7151
      @factsoftheconfederacy7151 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I’m unsure about that. The amount of loading variety you get with a .45 ACP is impressive.

    • @DanTheWolfman
      @DanTheWolfman 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Winchester white box that's from 5"....won't expand like that less than 4.25"

    • @danoneill2846
      @danoneill2846 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@DanTheWolfman I tested G19 & SIG P229 4 " and G17 4.5 " it did fine in bare jugs . I started putting stuff in front of the jugs , POSSIBLE it was shot through packing foam & packing tissue or cut off shorts >2 layers of old denim . They expanded & were in the 3rd jug . Blew up the first jug .

    • @DanTheWolfman
      @DanTheWolfman 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@danoneill2846 talking about the .45 jhp Winchester white box 230 fyi

    • @danoneill2846
      @danoneill2846 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@DanTheWolfman I have not had any of them . 45 has that issue with some H Ps , the 185 gr JHP are likely better for that . I had some Ranger T 230 gr JHP , they did very well for me from a 4.5" SIG , ( 1 " ) in bare jugs . Sam shot them into jell & they didn't expand . I think the jell is good most of the time , one more test , not the ONLY test . I have heard in REAL PEOPLE .. they expand to 1" more often than not . The 148 gr Ranger T , 9mm also had trouble in the clear jell , I got almost 3/4 " in bare jugs fron 2 - 4" 9mms . I think even the 124 +P+ didn't in jell . I think it is the jell Vs that type Hp don't work well together ?? I don't know why , I didn't test the +P+ . I think I heard they also work VERY WELL in people . ?? I think that is a test for the meat target & jugs ?? Test the test .

  • @exothermal.sprocket
    @exothermal.sprocket 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    9mm has to expand in most cases to be effective. 45 doesn't shrink. For wounding, a bigger hole is a bigger hole, if there's nothing on the projectile to tear up tissue.
    Then again, good ol' lead round ball did pretty well back in the cap n' ball revolvers.

    • @SoWavvyy
      @SoWavvyy 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      22LR is effective. Shot placement is most important. Edit: Check out Xtreme defenders. They do good damage and don't have to expand.

    • @exothermal.sprocket
      @exothermal.sprocket 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SoWavvyy "Shot placement is most important"
      Which is to say caliber IS important.

    • @SoWavvyy
      @SoWavvyy 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@exothermal.sprocket and a 9mm does just fine.

    • @exothermal.sprocket
      @exothermal.sprocket 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SoWavvyy So long as you're deeply invested in it, because ownership is validation right?

    • @SoWavvyy
      @SoWavvyy 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@exothermal.sprocket no uh… I own a 45 acp and a 9mm I love both rounds but both do really good. I don’t understand why people doubt 9mm and I don’t know why people doubt 45. The fact that I’m getting at is shot placement matters more than anything. Doesn’t matter what caliber. Sure 45 makes a big hole. I wouldn’t want to get hit by a 22lr dosent matter what caliber… it will kill you if it’s shot in the stuff that you need to survive on. Heart, lungs, brain, etc.. simple

  • @podsmpsg1
    @podsmpsg1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I think JHP would be best for defense. FMJ just penetrates without transferring energy to the target.

    • @guarddog318
      @guarddog318 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The thing is, nobody is going to do very well with a hole all the way through them.
      And if that hole happens to pass through something vital, like the heart or spine, energy transfer suddenly becomes unimportant.
      Also, trauma surgeons claim they don't see any evidence of a temporary wound cavity in the people they work on, so it's really unknown exactly what effect if any energy transfer has, if it doesn't also destroy vital structures.

    • @podsmpsg1
      @podsmpsg1 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@guarddog318 even if a JHP doesn't expand, it still, depending on bullet weight, goes deep enough to hit vital organs, which can very likely kill. JHP just increases the chance and likelihood of energy transfer.

    • @guarddog318
      @guarddog318 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@podsmpsg1 - I think you missed the point that it's proving to be that energy transfer isn't actually doing the work, except when it destroys something vital. Doctors aren't seeing any evidence that it adds to a round's ability to put a person down.
      Most "one-shot stops" seem to be due to either psychological reasons, or the fact that some component of the body has been altered ( destroyed ) in such a way that a person simply can't continue... ie. a central nervous system hit, or a shot through the heart. Or even destroying a joint will work.
      Yes, I like a good, proven hollow point design... but I also know that even those can fail to get where they need to. ( Look at some of Sam's vids where things didn't go quite as expected.)
      So, a bullet that "parachutes" and stops too soon is a problem.
      A bullet that will go all the way through a human body though - from any angle - still has the greatest chance of hitting something vital and ending the threat.

  • @ultrafuel2559
    @ultrafuel2559 ปีที่แล้ว

    When it comes to ball rounds velocity matters when it comes to wound cavity. Faster bullets are going to dissipate energy quicker.

  • @alfonsorj70
    @alfonsorj70 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good video..keeping bringing us good test ..

  • @davidlee8551
    @davidlee8551 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for SHOWING what the TOOLS WILL DO.
    For WOODS WALKING FMJ would do the JOB on
    ANY LARGE ANIMAL. “OVER PENETRATION” would
    NOT be a problem but a “FEATURE” ( ; ) . . .
    In Battle in “modern times” I believe the highest number
    of enemy KILLS was by a Rhodesian solder using
    9 MM FMJ. . . . Not saying that that 12”-15” penetration
    isn’t a great standard for home defense or other
    crowded areas.
    Thanks for the GREAT work and your honest opinion.

  • @badnewsBH
    @badnewsBH 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Interesting test, and some nice shooting, too. :)

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks.

  • @MrBuckeye63
    @MrBuckeye63 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    My Uncle, WW2 veteran , carried a 1911 ..stoked with 230 ball… and a S&W model 38 loaded with 148gr LWC in his pocket …
    Thanks for testing the 38Spl 130gr FMJFN
    I wonder if it would have similar results in a snubbie?

  • @willo7734
    @willo7734 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Haha interesting result on the 45 penetration compared with 9mm. I always like it when experimentation contradicts the established dogma.

  • @OldManMontgomery
    @OldManMontgomery 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    One must object to the accuracy testing phase. The pistols and revolver shown are seemingly fairly new, in good condition and possiby tuned a bit. In contrast, I fired a friend's High Power, a bit worn. It was a WW2 survivor and would group (for me) at about eighty yards about twice the size of a military silhouette target. That is of course at the 'south end' of the spectrum, but a multitude of hand guns are 'average' at best. Then add the human element...
    I would suggest a Ransom Rest or something similar. But that adds expense and time to reset the handgun. Not much chance of getting a government grant, either.
    I am not a proponent of FMJ ammunition as a defensive round. For most revolvers, I favor a bullet shaped like a cylinder. Flat on both ends. A Keith type semi-wadcutter is also rather useful and makes the cartridges look more familiar. Auto-pistols are more difficult. Any cartridge (bullet shape) must feed reliably and as you note, FMJ is not so 'social'. There must be a bit more care in selection and preparing the arm. Some throating is advised, but this is likely NOT something the non-enthusiast will want to spend money to do. Happily, much current ammunition will operate in most current arms. (I prefer and carry Colt Government Models and one variant thereof, and S&W revolvers: None made within the last forty years or so.)
    Good video with the monetary limits available. (I would like to provide fresh gel blocks for each handgun or round, but I'm not Bruce Wayne, either.) I must say I find the premise - testing FMJ rounds - is flawed. But if that's what viewers want...
    As you do now, keep it real.

  • @rob6850
    @rob6850 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Good stuff as always, Sam! One question, have you done this sort of test with 9mm flat nose 147 gr FMJs?

    • @GunSam
      @GunSam  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks. I don't think I have done that yet.

  • @6daemonic6
    @6daemonic6 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for the video I’ve always wondered about this. Would love to see someone test WWB 165gr .40 . They have a very flat, wadcutter type shape

    • @shadowwolf2524
      @shadowwolf2524 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I carry that round in my Glock 23 quite often.