South Park vs Mainstream Media: LGBT Representation
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2017
- A look at and comparison of how the cartoon South Park and mainstream media handle LGBTQ Representation. Check out this video and then head to our site to browse more LGBT content! How do you think representation is being handled? Comment Below!
In this video essay, Jess from PrideBrary looks at how LGBT representation is handled in South Park and compares it with popular mainstream shows and movies in mainstream media such as The Walking Dead, How to Get Away with Murder, Orange is the New Black, Beauty and the Beast, and more! When the comparisons are made an analysis can be done as to how we can get better representation for queer people in the media.
Links!
Read my comic!
Kyoko: kyokocomic.com/
Kyoko Mobile: bit.ly/Kyoko-Chapter-1-Webtoon
PrideBrary: pridebrary.com
Jess’s Instagram: / iamjessdotson
Credits:
Written, edited, and performed by Jess Dotson, emulating my hero Tommy Wiseau.
Big Thanks to!
Kiba680:
/ @danielstoryartist
Shivery-Sapphire:
/ shivery-sapphire
• Video
We Live Entertainment:
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South Park Instrumentals: / @southparkinstrumentals
All rights reserved to their respective owners, all content is used for educational and analysis purposes only.
“I like gay Craig. i love you. Here’s 100 dollars.” was honestly one of the best gay reps ever on media
"I used to believe that being gay is choice, but it's not. Japan picks who they pick, and that's that."
its simple logic
🤣🤣🤣
Thailand too.
Yes, Japan picked me #survivor ♥️😔
its a dicease
South Park is the definition of:
"I'm not bigoted I hate everyone equally."
A perfect balance
Yes
Exactly perfect and balanced as everything should be
Yeah, south park raised me to hate everyone.
south park always make sure they insulted everyone
It's funny how South Park likes to make racist, political, gay, offensive, poop, christen jokes...but it has way better LGBT representation than most shows that try to incorporate that into their shows.
That's because they're not kissing anyone's ass and don't have someone breathing down their neck, telling them to do this and that because that's what they say on social media.
@@Strikernofear
True lol.
Yes, that was the point of the video. Thanks captain obvious
I dunno about the T in the LGBT though... I just remember a lot of offensive things about Mr. Garrison.
Lgb. They don't cover trans topics well at all.
Japan picks who they pick and that's that.
floooooooooooooooood 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Why'd they pick me??
@@movedchannels7470 I don't know. Who can discern the workings of the Japanese?
I didnt even know Don King got raped
Japan has grown powerful during the years
the gays are really out here thriving in south park
What? No they aren’t
My girlfriend is trans and is terrified of SP because of their treatment of trans women
Buby-Wan Kenobi Nah that was hyperbole
they've got nothing against gays, neither have i. but this video is wrong in every way shape and form.
all they did was use gays in the show to have more drama to write about. to develop characters. mr garison wouldn't be very interesting as just another straight forward teacher. they made him hilarious by being this secretly closeted gay who puts rats up mr slaves ass. but of course mr macky is cool too because of his head and m'kay catchphrase.
when it came to the lesbian bar, again, it's more fun ideas for the show. ms garison scissoring with another woman. they really wanted to get that in before they transitioned him back to be the original gay garison.
mr garrison got the sex change right at the start of season 9.
in that episode they even mocked it with exaggerations. kyle being tall and black. his dad being a dolphin! xD
that's also what kyle was understanding when his mother were explaining mr garison's sex change.
and they mocked garison, since he thought he'd be able to have his own kid. which he then says to the doctor, well then i'm not really a woman, i'm just a guy with a mutilated penis! xD
+DLC ENERGY My girlfriend was just telling me about that episode. I've never seen the show. Gender Identity Disorder causes severe depression so things like that make it worse, which is what happened for her seeing that episode. Trey Parker and Matt Stone can do good work, and probably have nothing against gays in real life, but you're right they do use them for drama. Basically, I can't believe the OP is retarded enough to think this show is "for the gays".
I love that they made tweek x Craig canon because it shows that it’s ok for two character of the same gender can be in a relationship without it being sexual I always hated that so many straight relationships are shown between two minors and nobody bats an eye but as soon as you make a gay relationship with two minors it’s all of a sudden sexualizing kids
yes. it's because of yaoi fans, i hate them
@@NebulaBubbles it’s not just yaoi fans it’s also straight cis parents who “don’t want there kids exposed to that at such a young age” or what ever, if you look at the reviews for Disney’s out short film it’s full of parents complaining about how they don’t want there kids to know what gay is because they can’t just see it as a relationship filled with love and compassion for each other but can only see it as sexual. So I’m glad that South Park made this ship Canon and then built on it because now we have one of the most healthy couples in south park and they stay together even after like 30 years in the post pandemic special, southpark dose an amazing job not sexualizing them and just seeing them as a couple there whole personality’s aren’t that they are gay they each have different interests and hobbies and all that even if the town only sees them as gay they have s great friendship and I’m glad southpark let that ship happen
I never thought that there was sexualizing when two kids got together. I tend to think its sweet no matter what gender each one is and if its more than two
@@Isabella-tu9fb obviously but a lot of homophobes dont see it that way
I'm so tired of the "two people really love each other it has to be sexual/romantic!" Platonic love exists! I wish it was shown more
I think their skewing of Caitlyn Jenner wasn’t about her being trans. Her introduction was shortly after she caused a car wreck that killed another woman. I think Matt and Trey were trying to point out that transitioning didn’t make her the hero so many people worshipped her at the time. I don’t think it was an attack at trans people and transitioning, (it was unfortunate that she was the first real trans figure on the show), and more of a warning to not put celebrities on a pedestal
Wasn't the first garrison? He hd reassignment years ago
She was the first autogynephile on the show =P. With narcissistic personality disorder =P.
This is exactly it, well put.
Yeah I think they were frustrated that the fact she murdered someone by being a reckless driver was totally outshadowed and forgotten by society when she transitioned.
I was only ten when I watched that episode so I had no idea who she was so I was confused. I also hated PC Principal because he was being mean for no reason. I now realized as I got older, some of that was starting to happen around late 2017
I actually really liked Big Gay Al and Mr Slave, because while they started out as flat stereotypes they were given stories that slowly fleshed them out. There are some LGBTQ people who do match up to the stereotypes. And Al and Slave are proof that it’s ok, that a gay man can be flamboyant but still be so much more.
Jet Kismet Those two are probably my most favorite characters.
True and like with Al it’s a side he can’t hide, and the show represents what that is like fairly well
Remember the episode where Big Gay Al got fired as the boy scout leader because he was gay (couldn’t be trusted around little boys) but then the new leader the parents get turns out to be an actual pedophile
Also just like big gay al was legit my first introduction to hey it’s ok be loud and proud about it it’s ok to be the “gay guy” and that’s kinda been part of me
Lets not forget that one time Mr.Slave saved the world and told emotionally absent Mr.Garrison to go fuck himself.
I love how they represented creek. Out of all the relationships in the show, Craig and Tweek are presented as one of (if not THE only) healthiest relationships in South Park.
DepecheModeObsessed except they arent in a relationship it was a fucking joke
UndertaleSkeleBros in my opinion i think its canon cause there are some moments where craig and tweek act like a real couple even when theyre alone which means they arent pretending anymore
Its kind of just a joke and canon at the same time, thanks to the yaoi obsessed 12 year olds.
off topic but ASh omg i love your pic ❤️
UndertaleSkeleBros they are together, watch put it down, play the fractured but whole, it's obviously canon
Thing about Big Gay Al is he's very campy and flamboyant, but its never ever played as negative or obnxious, and the boys love him and see him as a good role model and boy scout captain.
Also another thing I love is you pointed out that Matt and Trey have grown. One of the biggest examples of this is on climate change, they made fun of al gore and climate change in the mid2000s, with manbearpig. In 2018 they made a 2 part episode thats basically a self reflection on this callrd "Time to Get Cereal", where you guessed it, manbearpig turns out to be real and absolutely fucking shit up. Trey Parker has stated he's a libertarian before, but in the episode "Unfulfilled" and "Bike Parade" they seem to take a really critical stance on capitalism, going so far as to have Kenny become a marxist and a character reference the communist manifesto. If theres one thing you have to give the boys credit for, they dont have much of an ego ans theyre willing to evolve.
@@fruitylerlups530 I like how they still committed to making Al Gore look like a bellend lol
When you think about, it South Park was talking about these issues way before mainstream media did. The Big Gay Al episode was in 1997 iirc. Sure, Al is a stereotype, but they talked about the issue maturely at a time when gay characters were mostly nothing but comedy relief.
South Park was saying being gay is ok over a decade before Hillary freaking Clinton started being pro-gay marriage.
Yep and Hillary cuntsen tried a no fly zone and fucked up Bernie Sanders with fake news
Hell, during that time she was against gay marriage. She's now pro-gay marriage because it's cool.
In the 90s when Bill was president, Hillary compared Gay Men to Dog's "they are just animals" but after Epstein "killed himself" No One talks about the Clinton's
But the Sarah Silverman show, that was the show that had the two best gay couple ever. Just two dudes who were gay, no over-the-top or nothing, the best normalized view on gay people. My role models growing up as a kid, Steve & Brian.
I like the fact that even Big Gay Al being a ass big stereotype, he's like, one of the most, if not THE MOST good person in the show. Principle speaking for the adults.
Like, he's a good man, he's humane, who do good stuff and live his life peacefully, not a crazy one or dumb as fuck like every other town citizen in sp.
Bru the bisexual/bicurious speech Butters delivered almost had me crying! Thank you Butters!!!
Exquisite Corpse
That’s why I love South Park so much. They can be really funny and inappropriate but they’ve still got their priorities straight. They can deliver a powerful and meaningful message without being obnoxious.
DUDE STOPPED A CHILD FROM COMMITING SUICIDE
WHILE THE CHURCH DID FIRCKING NOTHING
truly beautiful it made me proud of South Park for doing something like that
edit: it’s been a year and I still agree with this
Yeah, that speech was so cute
@Kenny McCormick so freakin' wholesome
I don't think it's necessary to avoid stereotypical gay characters entirely. Sure, the idea that (for example) all gay men are effeminate is a harmful and incorrect stereotype, but it's not like there aren't effeminate gay men. To say that nobody is ever allowed to create a character who is an effeminate gay man is to deny that they exist in reality and to ensure that they will never see themselves reflected in characters from media. Erasure hurts, too.
Obviously, don't have all your gay characters be effeminate. But having some mixed in with others who aren't isn't bad. In fact, I'd happily argue that it's a good thing.
Thankk youu this is exactly what I was thinking
Stereotypes all come from.somewhere. While they might not be true for everyone in a certain group, there are people who act like certain stereotypes about certain groups of people so you're absolutely right.
It's 2018....be glad when ppl just stop complaining about everything. Who cares if someone gay dies or is displayed over the top....it's a fuckin show for Christ sake.
It's not incorrect though, when they have done studies on gay men they found all of them were effeminate in childhood. It's called "straight acting" for a reason. Gay men don't want girlfriends =P. If you think gay guys aren't feminine get them drunk and watch the queen come out.
GabrielNicho
*Actually thats incorrect, because according to the encyclopedia of gdjfivjfjevskxndodjdirvugjfpb*
Craig and Tweek is legit my favorite cartoon couple. They don't need to be extravagant, or super handsy with each other, like some couples that kiss all the time and whatever. Hell, those two haven't even hugged. They just hold hands and spend a lot of time together. You can usually see them in the background together nowadays, but they haven't had a major episode like Put It Down after that. I heard they got renewed up to the year 2022, so if they did make another episode with them as the focus, I would be soooo happy.
On a side note, not explicitly said, but this is the connection I made. In season 3 Tweek Vs. Craig, there was a comment trying to stir Craig saying that Tweek said something bad about his guinea pig Stripe. In the video game, Tweek says he wants HIS guinea pig back because he had the receipt for when he bought it when they were together and it's his then he'll return the laptop. This leads me to believe that the original Stripe died while they were together, and Craig was so down that Tweek went out and bought a new one, they named it Stripe, and they raised a guinea pig together. That is absolutely adorable. Thanks SP, I haven't spent this long actually thinking about a pair like this before now.
Saw the “sooo happy” reference and I just had to like
i’m pretty sure their last speaking roles were in splatty tomato, also in the fractured but whole craig’s basket for stripe says “Stripe #4”
Then that makes it worse because Tweek wants something back that was bought as a replacement for Craig’s dead guinea pig.
Y'ALL WATCH THE COVID POST RIGHT!???THEY ARE STILL TOGETHERRRR WOO
@@red_racerr Yayyyyy!
I really like how they didn't make Craig's dad out as "evil" but as incorrect. It allows you to still root for him as he learns throughout the episode.
I was laughing as tears went down my face in the scene where craigs dad says hes ok with him being gay, bc its a heart warming moment but its hilarious af
edit: HOLY SHIT IT WAS 3 YEARS AGO I POSTED THIS AND IT HAS 3K LIKES??
DaWereKitten12 “here’s 100 dollars”
@@PINKSIGNN
XD
@@PINKSIGNN I love that is perfect representation of fathers often not knowing how to handle emotional shit!
It's was commentary on how people want to look progressive so they buttpat and reward the downtrodden, but it ends up being patronizing to the "victims"
Ikr but Craig looks so sad I felt so bad
I'm sorry but
*Here's a 100 dollars*
Samarfia well I'm gay know
funny, i'm straight and i always get money out of no where.
...
wait.
@@noah.1185 Oh
😂
I came out expecting 100 dollars
Got a jesus lecture instead 👊😔
I thought it was weird that I found myself never wanting to see LGBT stuff on TV and in movies because it just made me uncomfortable and yet I’d watch South Park and wouldn’t blink when a LGBT character came on. I’ve come to realise that it’s because of the WAY that LGBT is presented not the actual representation. I wanted to see more LGBT stuff and see myself represented but yet I didn’t and it made me feel weird and self hating. But I’ve leaned mainstream media just makes LGBT stuff feel gross while South Park is just like “here it is, whatever” so I hope people will learn that South Park is somehow the best LGBT representative yet!
u watched the lesbians episode? that was cool d9smpwiw9wjeie
There's lots of good movies and shows with good LGBT representation
@@Isabella-tu9fb slowly over time sure, it’s getting better but bear in mind it hasn’t always been this way and they’ve been stumbling around in the dark for a long time; also I mean “main stream” not so cool less known stuff that’s great
Yeah heres ur gay couple, ur welcome😞
@@Amethyst._balls Damn
Also, the point that the HIV episode makes it Cartman and Kyle via blood transfusions rather than gay avoids the stereotype of HIV being the 'gay disease'. The fact that money is the cure is also a genius plot point.
holy shit, i never saw it that way
As someone who lives with HIV, that episode is one of my favorite depictions of HIV in any form of media and i'ts hilarious af.
There was also an episode of South Park where Big Gay Al was the boys’ scout leader and the parents got him fired because they weren’t comfortable with him being around their children. The boys, however, loved him as their leader and didn’t understand why he was being fired. Then they get a new “straight” leader who they don’t like but the parents love. It turns out the new leader is actually a pedophile and it ends with Big Gay Al being their scout leader again.
Edit: I remembered the ending wrong (see cynicat74’s reply under this comment) but the message is still the same.
That was the episode jimmy was introduced I'm pretty sure.
I remember that episode. I loved it tbh.
what was the episode name?
@@wwandmitskicripple fight
No it doesn't. It ends with Big Gay Al saying that he doesn't want his freedom of choice to effect other people's freedom of choice. The episode ends with him saying that despite appreciating all the support he got, he still wanted to respect the Scouts' choices, as he wants other people to respect his.
I've just got two things to say:
- The depiction of Lorde is considered to be the most accurate and sympathetic portrayal of a trans person in the show, and there's also a small implication that Stan is gender-questioning. So take that for whatever it's worth.
- Big Gay Al has made it abundantly clear that he's expressing himself the way he wants to, which I see as flying in the face of just being another stereotype. There are also times when he defies stereotypes, such as pointing a shotgun at a bikie.
IRL example from my town
The gay beautician from my town was Challenged to a fight...
HE PUNCHED THE SHIT OUT OF THE GUY!
Me: O_o
Mom retelling me: you know just because he is-
Me: He doesn’t look like he fights!
Mom: Oh, yeah you’re right. That’s why you don’t mess with people!
XD
What do you mean Stan was gender questioning? Was he unfortable with trans people
@@Isabella-tu9fb Stan was questioning his own gender pretty much
@@buried4430 He was? Its been a while since I watched it
@@Isabella-tu9fb yeah, in the episode “The Cissy”, a subplot is that Stan is confused with his identity and doesn’t know which bathroom to use.
My heart melts when Craig calls Tweak "Babe", it's so genuine I could cry.
Waggot
@@ALPHA.ZONE_ youre 8
And Honey :')
Fun fact: Most characters in South Park are based on real people Matt and Trey actually know. Believe it or not, Big Gay Al is real.
He's real and COMING FOR YO-
@@dodsonboys Thank God it's Big Gay AL and not manbearpig.
@@l3nsman I love this shit.
@@l3nsman is that confirmed though? 😏
@@ennuiblue4295 For Mr. Mackey, especially, it's confirmed (Matt and Trey have gone on record saying "he could so sue us"). For the others I have mostly heard rumors.
Looking back, I'm actually fine with how Kaitlyn Jenner is portrayed. She's portrayed as a monster because being trans doesn't automatically make her a hero (I think there's a line about that on the show). Given how she treats the Trans community is now- she really is a monster.
*Wo Wo Wo Wo* Do you have a problem with Kaitlyn Jenner? Because she is a stunning beautiful woman, and if you wanna call her anything else, I'm ready to fucking throw down.
Caitlyn Jenner REALLY proved to me that trans people are the gender she identifies as- shes just as entitled as every other rich, cis white women
agreed. the issue is they don't have ANY legitimate trans characters. The power lifter that Strong Woman competes against is just a man lying a day before the competition (its done really grotesque with twitching balls if i remember lol) and the commentary is that trans people shouldn't be mixed with cis people for sports. Not a super positive message.
then we had the Cissy episode where cartman pretends to be a trans girl to get his own bathroom. Wendy pretends to be a trans guy to annoy/protest against Cartman. Stan is shown to kind of play with his own gender expression & experience, with him singing Lorde being equated to gender exploration from randy/lorde being a persona more similar to drag. So at BEST we have a vague vague hint that Stan might be some kind of nonbinary genderqueer, or maybe not - but hes exploring it which is a nice message.
But thats... it. No normal average non-monstrous trans people. Idk if they outright hate trans people lol, i doubt it, but I do think they haven't decided to dedicate screen time to trans issues like they have gay issues. The water is MUCH more murky for their views on trans people vs their pretty darn supportive view of gays. Even when gay people are joked about its not shown that they're hideous monstrous dangerous faking it etc.
I think she was portrayed that way because she fucking murdered somebody by driving recklessly but was portrayed as a hero because she transitioned after
south park is the definition of i may bully you but i will respect your pronouns
"what are your pronouns btw? i might be about to tell you that your parents mever had an ounce of love for you but i can still respect you as a fellow human" 💀
I've done that lmao
"I'm wanna talk shit about you later, but I also want to respect your human rights. What're your pronouns?"
I wanna tell you bad news
What are your pronouns
@@ashreo8286 “human rights” aren’t policing your speech lol
characters like Tweek and Craig are important because their whole characters aren’t defined by their sexuality. They were fleshed or characters with real problems and real personalities! it shows that LGBTQ+ people are just like everyone else because we already know and like them as characters
also- it’s pretty healthy ngl. like in most mainstream media it’s hyper sexualized and fetishized for straight womens appeal.
*Cough cough* Yaoi *cough cough*
Or hyper sexualized lesbians for men’s appeal.
@@padparade Sadly, yes that’s also very common
@@Dudjssnmahc9599 thats usually more so the case then gay men cuz lesbians are more marketable/digestible
@@bugeater2763 Agree
This is why I love South Park. Honestly South Park is even more progressive than the real world. I have leanred a lot of good morals from South Park believe it or not. This is why I always tell my friends South Park is my favorite show. Sure there's toilet humor and stuff but still you can still learn stuff from it and even laugh at the world.
You do kknow they are republicans right LOL
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5557163/South-Park-creators-reveal-REPUBLICANS.html
BullShark And? How does that effect their work being progressive?
@@bullshark3771 theyre libertarians, neither left nor right wing. They joked abt being republicans just to piss the liberals at that event
@@bullshark3771 a n d
@@engineerxero7767 I was just putting it out there cuz it’s a bit ironic and interesting since Hollywood is so progressive yet suck at their own shit
In conclusion- all of our homophobic parents need to give us 100 dollars.
yes this is obvious
so true!
Fr
ofc!
facts
Tweek and Craig are some of the most well-written gay characters I’ve seen. And I never noticed the parallels between Craig and Sparky
On one hand I think it's amazing and funny that Creek exists because they were making fun of yaoi fangirls and then they actually realized how well they fit together and they are now canon. They are super adorable.
On the other hand it's so depressing that the only legit healthy LGBTQ relationship we get is from South Park.
big gay al and mr slave is basically THE healthiest couple in south park lol!
I think the episode ‘Cissy’ makes the most unambiguous pro-trans statement in popular media, at least in regards to the bathroom debate
South park has made me cry my eyes out more times than i would like to admit... butters bicurious speech was huge for me as a young kid, as was Craig's dad's speech later in life, and when my sexuality brought me to the worse depression in my life, stan sees the world as just being shit, stops talking to friends, and it struck a nerve no other show has, three separate times!
Oof yeah those episodes with Stan are heavy af
Here's the problem with Disney and LGBT representation. Theres a lot of gay people in the world. Theres a lot of homophobes in the world. Disney wants money from both sides
My mom and I had a debate about Luca being LGBT representation. My mom said they were "really good friends," and "just because you want gay doesn't mean gay. They're too yo--"
YES. THIS IS WHY WE NEED CONFIRMATION . WE NEED CONFIRMATION ON LGBT CHARACTERS/REPRESENTATION
I watched Luca together with me gf without knowing beforehand anything about it and neither of us thought its about gay people. We legitimately thought its about friends and friendship, maybe about being a foreigner, too
At most the creator of LUCA confirm that the movie is about summer friendship, being courageous in the face of unknown, summer adventure, and being true to yourself. The queer undertone, much like Harry Potter coming out of the closet and into the wizard world, wasn’t intentional; but there nothing wrong in reading it that way.
@@SuperEasywalker the thing is: i think part of it was intended. im saying this cos the creator of luca kept liking alberto/luca fanart in which they were portrayed romantically and said the relationship was up for interpretation, although it was inspired by his own friendship.
too young yet it’s cute and adorable when kids have bfs and gfs
I think the thing with South Park stereotypes is everyone is stereotyped, no matter when race, gender, nationality or sexual orientation, and they are all made fun of. But then they break down the stereotypes by fleshing them out into full characters.
satan and Chris’s relationship was super funny.
That was the funniest thing ever LOL. Definitely not realistic but hilarious
i feel like the caitlyn jenner and mr/mrs garrison idea made sense. being trans doesn't always make you a good person, the same way being gay doesn't automatically make you a good person. though I do agree that it would be a good idea for them to put some positive, normalized representation, but at the very least they've explained the idea of being trans in a respectable way (while keeping the chaotic sense of mr/mrs garrison when he transitioned to a female and then de-transitioned).
they still don't have any positive trans characters
@@aSmallGreenDot I really hope they make one bc theyve attacked us so much and even made that one disgusting episode 💀
People are expecting Kenny to be trans but I had a better idea for him to die and be reborn as a girl and he wants to revert back to his old self so for maybe a season before he dies again, Kenny is FtM.
@@DerpDerp3001 I used to think Kenny was a girl originally because of his voice lmao
@@DerpDerp3001 but he liked being a Princess-
God I remember when SP asked for Creek fanart LOL
My friend and I RUSHED to draw some
WE didn't get in LOL BUT a lot of my favorite artists at the time were in the ep
I loved every single thing about this! I have strangely shipped Tweek and Craig together since I first started watching the show as a kid (probably around 2001 or so), and what made me start watching again was them getting together back in Craig x Tweek. I was so certain they were gonna play it off as a one-time joke or make them straight, but I was beyond excited when they actually ended up making Craig and Tweek stay together and realize they were gay. It's not even just the fact that two gay kids are being represented (although even that is great), it's how healthy of a couple they are on such a messed up show. Craig was the kid that the other kids' parents hated, he beat people up, showed no emotions, etc. Tweek is mentally ill, has literally fucked up parents that feed him meth, and is just shown as being deliriously paranoid and crazy. When they got together they both changed for the better. Craig started showing emotion and becoming nicer, and he began learning on how to best comfort Tweek when having an episode. IT'S JUST SO FUCKING CUTE.
Also agree that the show does need to work on trans representation. Garrison is justf bat-shit crazy and doesn't really count and Caitlyn is an idiot, so it's fine that they show them like that. I just wish they weren't the ONLY representation.
I think overall south park has a perfect balance of making fun of marginalized groups while also treating them respectfully. They've been praised before for their disabled characters like Jimmy and Timmy, and I've also always loved Token Black. His character is the perfect foil to his name, since he's not a 'stereotypical black' character at all.
Basically....South Park is a conundrum of a show. They believe in making fun of everyone equally, but I think the essence of what they actually believe in usually shines through. And I loved your analysis of it :D
I also love how it is kinda how kids start relationships,sometimes they'll start a fake one as a joke but actually end up together it's kinda perfect in a way
in the game Tweek cannot distinguish some coffe related things, I think it's also because of the breakup they are facing but I like to think he got used to not do such things staying with Craig
Oh and he is calmer and shakes almost never with Craig im dead
That was such a good speech omg I need to save it
And they’re still together :).
its TOLKIEN🙄
This is a really beautiful analysis! I think you’ve hit the nail right on the head and it is kinda amusing that you can play as a trans or nb character in TFBW but I can’t think of any other game that lets you do that.
Dream Daddy let's you choose to play as either a cis man or a trans man (the trans guy will be wearing a binder), and seeing as that's already quite the lgbtq+ friendly game, I'd say the game creators really had all their corners covered!
I think monster prom lets you play characters with they/them pronouns
The Sims 4.
A decent amount of visual novels do. I recently played hustle cat and they let you use they/them pronouns too
Undertale has Frisk, or whatever the player names the character, who’s referred to with “they/them”. The game is pretty friendly to the community in some other areas as well (Alphys and Undyne’s relationship has my soul)
I honestly love the gay men rep we get in the show, from Big Gay Al to Mr Slave to Tweek and Craig (Matt and Trey have confirmed they're a real couple). They play into stereotypes because that's the aim of the show but there are earnest parts to all of these characters that go far beyond their sexuality.
It's also cool to note that in The Fractured But Whole, you can pick a wide array of genders and sexualities and, whilst the sheer number of them is a joke about labels within itself, the choices do not lead to any mockery or unfairness within the game itself. If you pick anything other than cis boy, they actually poke fun at the first game, The Stick of Truth, only allowing boy characters by having Mr Mackey call your parents to say "We were under the impression your child was a boy this whole time. Oh, it's no problem, this actually makes everything much clearer now."
Matt's quote at the end is why I love the show. They're honest, which means that sometimes they get it wrong. But honest mistakes are opportunities to reflect and grow, and honesty can lead to really great stuff. Phoning in the socially accepted bare minimum doesn't really say anything. You don't know what that person truly believes, just that they're towing the line.
"Give it to Rebecca, nobody liked her" 🤣🤣
you forgot the episode the cissy! its the best transgender episode there is.
But butters sucked I can only watch the episode 15 times more max
@@sleepingonyourroof wha-
@@LeGoodMusica23 I can only watch the episode 15 more times because butters wasn’t funny in it
@@sleepingonyourroof lol
How dare you forget about the Gay Fish?
the relationship that craig and tweek have is probably the healthiest gay relationship than in any other type of media. the fact that south park was able to make creek a healthy gay relationship really has to say something
sees gay for pay
cough cough *Voltron season 7* cough cough
E X A C T L Y, dreamworks just kill Adam before that we could know if they are engaged or in a relationship with Shiro, AAAGH
EVEN PIDGE'S DOG SURVIVED! BUT ADAM NOT!!!!!!! fuck u dreamworks, at least we have Akira and Leo xdddd
@@mikey4388 ikr
HDHDHS YAAASSSS
i really feels like lgbt rep could’ve happens if dreamworks wasn’t such ignorant asses. the staffs of voltron actually care about having rep and worked real hard for it. but dreamworks only cares about moneys and wants to sell out in other country who are really ignorant to any lgbt.
Your hair is very pretty
christi corcoran I like it too
no lies here
Looks like yarn 😀
"I can get that in a cartoon where people eat shit but I cant get ina disney movie!"
Oh how much the truth hurts, also I wheezed so hard on that part
craig and tweak makes me SOB
LIKE THEYRE REPRESENTED SO WELL AND THEYRE SO FUCKIN CUTE
THEY WROTE CREEK SO WELL AND SO ACCURATELY
I saw big gay Al as a parody of the stereo type to be honest in the same way as that butters confusion scene (but just not spelled out completely). I don't think many people start seeing people in one dimension from just stereotypes in bad writing or jokes - think that's more the effect of propaganda.
Equally gay characters being killed off after it is revealed might just be a case of "ohh shit we are going to kill off this person but nobody cares.... lets give them a love interest!" more than any real statement on the relationship between homosexuality and happiness.
i dont think that mainstream media is intentionally trying to say that LGBT people dont deserve happiness - they just love drama and care more about dramatising the lives of LGBT people than portraying us tactfully. So they show LGBT life as full of toil and misery, then we'll find love and the minute we start to be happy with who we are one of us will die to drive us further into despair again. it's lazy, not intentionally malicious. But laziness with unfortunate implications is still deserving of criticism.
Chell Ray yes, laziness is still worth criticising, I was just trying to say the motivation probably isn't homophobia. I also think mainstream media dramatises everything because it's entertainment.
Not completely related but upon rewatching it came to mind, marvel LGBT representation is nonexistent but this almost certainly isn't because they are bad at representation. After all, Joss Whedon implemented gay characters into Buffy. I doubt this is because America couldn't handle it either. The real reason is a world wide audience would reject it with many governments censoring it.
+Glady my point is that it doesn't matter if they are being intentionally homophobic or not. Their laziness has created homophobic implications in their story regardless of their intent and they ought to be critiqued for such implications.
Chell Ray motivation in my opinion matters here in a similar way to murder vs manslaughter - it should colour how you treat the creator of the media.
@@GladysthehomunculusThe author of this video essay isn't really arguing for the homophobic intent of mainstream media, but of the homophobic nature of mainstream media. I agree that motivation matters to some degree, though. However, to follow your analogy, murder and manslaughter both still result in the death of another person which, I hope you agree, is a bad thing. The same could be said for mainstream writers. They could very well be the least homophobic people, but if they aren't careful, they might accidentally write stories with homophobic implications.
I know I'm VERY late to this video, but I have something to add about the South Park game. Whenever you get done with choosing your gender, you get jumped by a group of hillbillies who make fun of your gender expression *while validating your gender expression*. Throughout the fight, they use whatever pronouns are associated with the gender expression that you chose in the councilors office. I just thought it was a really nice addition as Trey and Matt didn't make the A.I. be extremely transphobic like they could have, but made them respect the characters gender despite the whole reason behind the attack being that you have a gender identity. They do this for EVERY gender too, even if you say you're a cis male like you're perceived to be in the story by the other kids. I just thought it was a really nice addition that not only poked fun at the ridiculousness of bigots, but also showed respect for the player throughout each and every showdown.
And remember, the creators of South Park are conservatives, specifically, libertarian leaning... and they wrote some of the best LGBT representation on television while expressing multiple issues facing the LGBT community. I feel like a lot of people forget that people are people and not political parties.
matt and trey aren't conservatives
@@moonialin they are , they like voted republican
@@pringleaddict5827 doesn’t mean they’re conservative, they said themselves that they aren’t and hold left wing views on a lot of social issues
@@moonialin im conservative and im pro legalisation of weed and prostitution lol
They describe themselves as centrists. Although I dont like centrists, or even liberals because they are too right-leaning, there is a difference between a Republican and a centrist
It's cool that even the most stereotypical gay characters can do something besides showing their sexuality. I'm talking about the Scout episode. There's an almost perfect moral at the end, love this!
I LOVE TWEEK AND CRAIG SO MUCH
Stereotypes are really only bad if they are limiting or derogatory, otherwise we need them! Southpark in my opinion is just excellent. It encourages freedom of thought and doesn't call for hatred. How many holy books can say that?
The book of Mormon LOL
Basically all of them but the quaran?
"Stereotypes are really only bad if they are limiting or derogatory, otherwise we need them!"
Wat
Your not wrong they can be safeguards from danger stereotype of a masked man coming into the store is some shit is about to go wrong either you being robbed kidnapped or somebody getting shot overall some are good some are bad but most are based off some level of truth
Fun fact!!! Star Trek actually removed the kiss scene because it "crossed the line" :) :) :) :)
Funny story: the first time I thought about seeing girls as more than friends and my first thought was: "no! I can't think like that! That's wrong!".
At that point in my life nobody had ever told me that being gay or liking girl is wrong in anyway. I still thought it was wrong and bad.
And this is the reason we need representation. (At least one of the reasons) if I had representation showing me it's okay, I never would have been confused and I'm sure there are a lot of people like me, who wouldn't have had to go through years of confusion.
Put it Down is one of my favorite episodes. It’s super gay and is a pretty accurate representation of what it’s like to be close to/in a relationship with someone who suffers from severe anxiety. It’s discouraging to me when my friends automatically write off South Park as racist and stupid (or when someone I’m interested in says me liking South Park is a dealbreaker and refuses to go out even once 😑 which happens more than you’d think), because it’s a pretty solid show, as long as you have any sense of humor at all and don’t take things too personally. Awesome video, I agree with almost everything you talked about!! 😘 Also, your hair and your voice are so beautiful I thought I was gonna have a stroke 😭😍
I think S18 E3 has the best commentary on trans rights. It doesn’t introduce any trans characters but it still offers the best ideas the show has on the subject.
it’s the same with disabled people!! like jimmy,timmy,nathan,mimzy etc… i’m disabled myself and have been all my life. i have never come across a movie or series that just has disabled people in it without shoving it down everyone’s throat or having them in there to prove a point or showing that they are sooooo divers. southpark just includes them and treats them like normal children (because that’s what they are) without making it a disabled kids campaign. it’s adequate representation because they don’t treat or showcase them differently. that’s exactly what we want. being treated equally shitty.
It’s weird how South Park and Always Sunny seem to have better rep than some of mainstream media 🤷🏾♀️😅
I think there’s using stereotypes and landing back on them. South Park is satire and isn’t perfect but I’m glad they speak their mind. I highly agree with you about shows not normalizing homosexuals but much rather making that their entire personality.
I’m extremely happy that South Park has stereotypes and legitimate representation because that’s just like the real world.
The south park creators have always been very libertarian, which doesn't mean alt right or any of that non sense, it just means they are for people doing whatever they want to make them happy as long as it doesn't harm others from doing what they want. My only criticism of your video is the fact that you said its ok that they make fun of lgbt people bc they make fun of literally everything and then in the next sentence you kinda get annoyed that they poke fun of stereotypes with big gay al(who is a great character btw). Its either all ok or none of it is, I vote nothing is off limits nobody has to find it funny but somebody will
I always thought the Craig and tweak arc was about how social pressures guide our lives. They didn't choose to be fetishized, but due to social pressures, became a couple. Sure, maybe they love each other now, but it doesn't change the fact that their relationship was preordained by the hivemind essentially. As they say "You don't get to do that, that's up to Japan".
Zachary White they could have chosen to left and never talk to each other again after the hype of them being “together” went down
Mad respect for traditionally marginalized groups who are able to laugh at themselves, or not take themselves too seriously (but while still reasonably demanding respect). I liked your video a lot, and you have a lot of really cool points
Love the video, but you actually moved me toward a very different take from yours on Big Gay Al.
He's basically the personification of the idea of gays "rubbing it in your face", and usually South Park would play that out to its most damaging extreme to play up the ridiculousness of fears about it, but in his case, it's just... not a problem. He has no difficulty convincing everyone to accept him as the flaming stereotype he is, because there's nothing actually wrong with it. And now that I think about it, that's f'ing radical.
i love craig and tweek’s relationship so so much! they’re literally so adorable and healthy, literally my otp
"Queer women are shown in south park just very rarely" just like how queer men & queer boys are very rarely shown in kids cartoons and when they are it's almost always gay dads that show up once in a blue moon (kipo is litterally the only family friendly kids cartoon with good, balant and often shown lgbt male rep)
I literally had this exact thought.
Um. South Park makes fun of everyone and everything. It makes fun mainly of ignorance.
the only reason im not liking this comment is because theres 69 likes
That's what she said in the video fam. Watch it
Dats Da point
I legit was going to be so pissed off at this video thinking she was going to trash South Park and say that South Park stereotypes gay ppl by having big gay al and mr slave and that they need to be removed blah blah blah like that terrible Indian comedian that made a video about apu on the Simpson’s to the point that they actually removed apu from the show because of his stupid video controversy. but then I watched and am glad to see she didn’t. But yeah big gay al and mr slave are stereotypes but guess what who cares? South Park stereotypes and makes fun of literally everything and everyone and I love that about South Park. Gay ppl that are more flamboyant DO EXIST there is no denying that fact and there’s nothing wrong with that they should be represented! And because they ALSO have tweek and Craig showing another representation of a gay couple showing diversity as they don’t have particular gay stereotypes about them but are also STILL GAY. Great video.
Craig and tweak are my favourite couple in Southpark by far ❤️
Ironically, I think Satan is a very good representation of gay people in South Park.
Not because "gay = evil", but because he's a quite fleshed out and down to earth (eh) man with several issues, notably in his relationships but that never boils down to him being gay.
Unpopular opinion
Satan > god (in South Park let’s not take that out of context)
this is comepletely unrelated but seeing a black lgbtq member say that they also like southpark makes me feel better abt also liking it
Same I’m a black queer person, and I told my friend that I liked the show and she judged me😭. Honestly I understand if I hadn’t seen clips of the show I would have still thought it was this racist, homophobic, toilet humor, family guy type show
@@jaydajohn5041 SAME I thought it was going to be awful but then i genuinely started to enjoy it 😭. I get why she would judge you tho bc some shit in the show isnt okay but theyre slowly getting better and thats one of the reasons ill keep watching sp
Creek is legit my fav canon cartoon couple bc they're genuine and cute in a way that doesn't seem forced, it's not their whole personality/dynamic
Also it's really funny how they were just fake dating for the town but then over time started to actually like being together and continued dating for themselves
Gay men are at higher risk of contracting HIV, it is a big topic in the community, so it is actually a good thing to cover that topic.
bisexuals are another factor that spread it to all other people.
PrideBrary Have you seen the "Dallas buyers Club"?
They are not at a higher risk anyone who has unprotected sex has the same risk
Marshall L. That is factually wrong. The CDC reports that receptive unprotected anal sex is the most responsible for spreading HIV. Not to mention the fact that HIV is so much more prevalent in the community. It puts them at such higher risk.
PriBrary have u ever seen Rent? Roger isn't gay but has AIDs and his GF DIED FROM IT they did too much drugs.
I love the relationship of Craig and Tweek it's just so cute
matt and trey are my fucking idols, they never make excuses for what they did wrong and better themselves instead, which shows incredible bravery especially since they're so famous now. they admit that what they used to do is wrong and change rather than brushing it off as "it's just a joke" even though it would be so easy to do that given that it's offensive comedy, not to mention how perfectly they balance making fun of minorities and respecting them at the same time. what i hate about "offensive comedy" is it's usually targeted to right-wing viewers where minorities and leftists are made fun of, but south park doesn't give a single shit and makes fun of EVERYONE. that's how offensive comedy SHOULD be, it should poke fun at everything regardless of political stance. i'm a leftist myself, and south park is without a doubt my favourite show.
i could go on forever about how great south park is, but i think your video is enough to do that. it's fucking hilarious to see the whole creek fiasco, but it's heart-warming at the same time because they're pretty much the only healthy couple in the entire town, and their relationship makes both of them better people, as well as their differences filling for what each of them lack. it's funny to see mr slave and gay al be so flamboyant and stereotypical, but we should also remember that they're actual sweethearts who are much saner than any other straight person in the show (like goddamn gay al is literally such a sweetie and an incredibly talented and smart person). token is such a genuinely good person despite how easy it would be to make fun of him for being black (and he IS made fun of for being black, but it's never shown as right or even rational).
just... south park is a good damn show
I can’t be the only person who thinks stereotypes aren’t just bad no matter what. If they’re used well and in a funny/clever way I think there’s nothing wrong with that
There are ways to twist them but when people just play into stereotypes it’s kinda boring IMO like family guy shit
@@shnpio but family guy is playing into stereotypes as a way to show how stereotypes are stupid, South Park does the same thing
I can never watch Tweek x Craig without nearly crying. It's just impossible.
"Although the transgender community isn't exactly portrayed in a positive light"
*Nervous laughter*
This was before Heather Swanson wasn't it...
We all know Matt and Trey don't give a crap.
@@DerpDerp3001 Not true. The episode isn't even about trans people, that's just the plot device they use.
There's a line from Big Gay Al that I remember. It was when the boys were calling a Biker Gang 'Fags' and so wrote 'Go Away Fags' on a building. Big Gay Al and Mr Slave were walking down the street and saw this and Al's reaction was incredibly realistic and kinda sad. He just said 'I thought we were past this!'
I know this is just Matt and Trey showing that the boys were just mimicing adults and had no real hatred for any of the groups, they were just annoyed at the bikers
Honestly, representation is huge to me. When I write my lgbt characters, I attempt to make them as real as possible. Not some stupid stereotype about how they act, but as normal people. South Park is the show I strive to write like
South Park has the best LBGT representation in all of media.
Butters bicurious speech: happens
Me, a bisexual: sobbing
Matt Stone and Trey Parker earned my respect in 2000 when they dropped acid and attended the Academy Awards. That's that shit I do like.
I think the whole Lorde episodes also explored trans really well imo.
(As a gay) Never cared and never will care if there is any gay characters represented in anything I watch. Like, I really don’t care if I see gay characters, I just watch the show for the show and I don’t get offended when they don’t have gay characters. Just my opinion.
Edit: also, I don’t think people have the wrong idea about the lgbtq community. I’m pretty sure most people know an lgbtq person, and we laugh (well, at least I laugh) when there IS a stereotype of any race, gender, or sexuality, because it’s a joke, and most people know most gay people don’t ACTUALLY act like that (but there are also people who do actually act like that). like that overly flamboyant character in South Park, he was meant to be taken as a joke because he was the stereotype but amped up to the maximum. I can connect or relate to any character, I don’t care if they’re not gay, they don’t actually have to be gay or look anything like me for me to relate, as long as their personality is like mine.
So you never felt alone and shamed growing up because media portrayal of people feeling like you felt... was of it being something that had to be hidden, to felt embarrassed about ? I mean, even if you didn't feel that, didn't it made you feel unimportant by assigning for gay representation characters that are always underdevelopped, empty, easy to kill off...?
I mean, I'm pretty happy for you. Your experience seems happier than most. (The rest of us would rather never again experienced alienation because of this (lack of) representation.) As I see it, it's a lot easier to do violence against a gay/black/women/other person if you can't identify with them. And media insists in not making us empathizable, that's a problem...
I am a person who found out I was pan/poly, and they were like "ok cool" and continued about their day.
Being yelled at/discriminated against/otherwise harassed over my sexuality has never been something I, and I'm sure a minority of other LGBT people have to deal with. Not to mention I have been surrounded by a fair few people who have been LGBT themselves, so a lack of representation in my own life has been absent. Imo, I think that's why I don't see the burning need to have gay characters/feel unhappy when a show doesn't have any.
Do I think we should get representation? yeah i mean, we exist, but is it necessary to be shown off everywhere? no
"I mean, even if you didn't feel that, didn't it made you feel unimportant by assigning for gay representation characters that are always underdevelopped, empty, easy to kill off...?"
You bring up something OP didn't mention once, and imo that's not purely a gay problem. It's a bad writing problem. Bad writers will underdevelop any type of character under the sun and kill them off, though we take more notice when they're a minority.
Nadia Rey I personally think nowadays it’s harder to harass gay people and minorities (in America at least) because they could also be charged with hate speech usually along with the assault if you do. I really don’t think the media should is portraying gay people badly, actually, I think it’s pretty good. I personally feel safe wherever I go where people know I’m gay, I mean, we have a whole month to ourselves AND the community even gets to have a parade! Of course, there are still problems, but, where I live I feel happy and accepted. I personally don’t think we really need representation in tvs and movies, I think we have enough, and funnily enough, I see a lot of pride and stuff for the lgbtq community on social media. I personally don’t watch movies or tv shows and have an instinct to want a gay character. Idk, I can relate or connect with a character no matter who they are as long as they have a likeable personality or something like that. And to be honest, I don’t even mind if somebody is homophobic, as long as they keep it to themselves and don’t advocate to hurt gays. I don’t mind if there’s a gay character, of course, and I don’t care if they kill them off either, or if they were even likeable in the first place, because there are a lot of straight characters who are unlikeable too, and I don’t think making all the people in the lgbtq community in tv shows and movies saints is good either. There are also movies that are solely based on gay romance too, I think the best one is "call me by your name" from what I’ve watched, and I think it was even nominated for something too. I like those, but I also like straight romance movies. As I said, just my opinions from my experience.
Espeon yes! Totally agree with you. Of course being discriminated sucks, but it really is happening less an less, thank god I was born after the 70’s, but even having a developed character who was gay (which there have been anyways) wouldn’t change the mind of a homophobic person anyways. As I’ve said before in my other reply, I don’t even care if they’re homophobic as long as they keep their opinions to themselves and don’t advocate to hurt gay people. And I don’t think people have the wrong idea of what gay people are like (which, is usually just acting like everybody else) because they probably know a person in the lgbtq community in their life anyways.
Pale Shadow barley any media now is homophobic, and if they get homophobic, there will be a giant amount of people hating on them and boycotting them. Why are people mad if there is NO representation in the media? It doesn’t say anything bad about gays, and even if a homophobic person watched a show where there was gay representation, it wouldn’t change their minds, instead, they probably just wouldn’t watch the show.
Summary of the entire video: Don't write characters to be gay to further a plot, especially of the writing is weak. If you try to pander or appeal to any demographic; it's going to suck.
The big thing that kills me about Sulu is that George Takei himself has said he views Sulu as straight and just because he plays Sulu doesn’t mean he’s gay. iirc it’s established in one of the movies that Sulu has a wife and daughter
In conclusion, South Park does everything well, because they do it because they want to and not to please certain people who believe they are always right coff coff twitter coff coff
PD: Just want to say the fact that Butters isn't bi-curious, his dad is
His dad is bi curious? What episode?
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 butler's very own episode or something like that. He is shown having lots of gay sex. Lol
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 "Butter's very own episode", last episode of season 5 if I am not mistaken
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 Not just bicurious, he was banging dudes at the YMCA.
9:01 yeah Adam was definitely a casualty of the Bury Your Gays trope considering we had all but two scenes with him
butters didn't even know what he was talking about and he STILL handled it better than 90% of america
best character second only to tolkien
ok but the fact you were playing put it down as the background music melts? my? heart??
looking back at this episode after episodes like "The Cissy" makes me happy that the dialogue for the trans community is getting better, but also disheartened with the Strong Woman episode.
Strong Woman is a nuanced episode. There really is physical difference in sports. Focus on the final conversation between PC principal and strong woman.
You just got a new subscriber!
Great video! I got recently into South Park once I've watched a playthrough of the game "The Stick of Truth". And despite the impression it gives at first glance, the show has more depth than I thought it would ( I decided to give it a try since it seemed a comedy).
Thanks :). Stick of Truth was awesome! I really want to play their new game, The Fractured But Whole. That looks dope!
the way main stream media portrays gays just sometimes makes it feel like they’re trying to stuff gay shit down our throats for cash like making one characters entire personality gay isn’t representation it’s just more fuel for the fire on the gay hate train, but south park doesn’t make being gay a huge part of some character’s personality like tweek and craig for an amazing example, tweek is still his anxiety filled self and craig is his analytical wanting things to stay the same self, they aren’t just ‘the gay kids’ they’re just normal 4th grade boys who are in love and that’s what real representation should be mainstream media need to fucking learn that money isn’t everything and a real way to be making a shit ton of money is not giving a fuck and putting actual time and effort into your characters and representation they’re trying to incorporate, moral of the story, be like matt and trey, don’t give a fuck, and put time into your work
To be fair about the Walking Dead, they do that to every character no matter sexual orientation. They get you to like them and then kill them.