Lapping the Flathead 80 Cases Together
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ส.ค. 2022
- Not real difficult, but lapping the mating surfaces of the crankcase is of major importance. The time is not wasted and it makes for a nicely sealed and proper engine.pacificmike.com
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In case my fellow Mike, Mike, and wireless mic fans don't know, valve lapping compound comes in both "oil mix" (suspended in a light grease/thick oil) and "water mix" (suspended in a thick soap solution). Both do their job equally well, the difference is clean up. Oil mix is a bit more tenacious, but you get best clean up results scrubbing with a petro-friendly solvent or a caustic bath, water mix gives best clean up results with hot water and detergent. The "old wisdom" is oil mix is for parts you toss in a hot tank full of caustic to clean (iron and steel), water mix is for parts that don't mind being boiled in a tank full of tide but caustic stuff tends to etch/eat them (aluminum, magnesium, pot metal). Either works on all parts of course, the only real difference is what you thin them with, and clean up with
Thank you. A very informative explanation.
Thanks Mike , appreciate showing your techniques, I remember seeing you do this on an older video, never gets old and just think all this knowledge being put on video and the Internet will forever be invaluable for future motorcycle enthusiasts, thanks again!
Thank You.
@@pacificmike9501 I thought it was cool how you used the engine stand in the vice, when you lapped the evo cases.
I appreciate the attention to detail. These kinds of the things are the difference between a job done right and a half-assed attempt that may run fine, but will soon start showing oil leaks.
Thank You.
One of my many favorite memories of building my bottom end with you was you setting me up to lap the cases together on my EVO. Good times.
Yes sir. Way fun.
I’m not sure how I came across your channel some time ago but I really appreciate your videos. It makes me reminisce about when my dad would teach me about taking time to do things right and the old timers at my job shedding random knowledge about stuff like this. It’s great and I love whenever I can be a part of it so thank you 💯
I think we both look at it the same way. Thank You.
It's awesome that those cases still exist and are being used and taken care of. Thanks for the information Mike!
Thank You.
Every time I watch your vids it humbles me to know I’ve got so much to learn
Me too. It will always feel like that. Don't forget it. It makes you more careful and you'll make less mistakes.
Hermetically sealed .Mike I am very meticulous,, I think you have me beat,,lol ..I learn so much from you ...I wish that there were some mechanics just like your self here in Prescott ,Az....Thank you Mike ..I enjoy your channel
This should be taught in "Early Model Harley Davidson," at MMI. It should be easy to find where you live. We always did it from early right on up to Evos (which are now considered "early model"). It's actually what the service manual calls for. Sadly, I never went to school for training. I studied under "old guys." Thank You.
@Pacific Mike . I love your videos. I have the utmost respect for you sir as you have probably forgotten more that I I have learned. While I am looking for a shovelhead to build, this video was helpful in things to keep in my head when prepping the cases. With kindest regards!!
Thank You. Happy hunting.
I like when CMM asks questions. It feels like a real conversation and he gets to ask questions the rest of us may have. Great job guys
Thank You.
Always a pleasure .
Thank You.
Always love stopping by the garage, have a blessed week my friends.
Thanks, you too!
I enjoy your meticulous attention to detail. As in just about anything one builds if you don't strive to keep things straight, square, plumb, level, and in this case, mating you will have nagging "headaches" somewhere down the road, literally! Thanks for what you do.
Thank You.
This is very interesting. I never built the bottom end of a motor. Thank you of this learning experience. 👍
Thanks for watching.
Man, America wasn't involved in World War 2 when that engine came out of the Harley factory! My Ma (Helen) took her first motorcycle ride in a sidecar pulled by a 1940 H-D flathead. A year before, My Ma and her folks fled the Nazis. The guy behind the bars was Joe Robison. Ma Helen (RIP) Joe Robison (RIP) Great info in this video, Mike! All the best on your flattie project!
That's some interesting history, the history of why you're here. My respect and gratitude to your family for you.
@@pacificmike9501 -- I wish I still had some pre-WWII photos of my Ma in that sidecar. My Ma told me that Joe took a detour across a freshly plowed field. Ha! She nearly flew out of that sidecar! Guys rode those old Harleys all over the place! Many kind thanks to you, Mike. You're truly a great gent!
I love your phrase “surgically clean”. Made me chuckle.
It's not an original, but it's what I was taught a long time ago.
That's looking good, Mike.
Thank You.
Thank you for showing this trick.
Not a trick. It is standard procedure. I realize a lot of people don't do it. But the factory recommends it. Thank You.
@@pacificmike9501 All this have been neglected and after all this time, many people don't know (as me) than it is standard to do this.
Absolutely beautiful
Thank You.
HOWdy Mike,
Thanks - lap - Lap - LAPPING the CASES for perfect FIT
Thanks
COOP
...
You got it!
Thank you for sharing. 👍👀
My pleasure
Lapping the cases is so damn cool . Great job only way to go . Honorable.
Thank You.
Thanks Mike another great show. see you on the road
Thank You. I'll look forward to it.
Thanks Mike, have a couple of sets of Pan cases I will be building myself and looking forward to more videos like this one!
Cool. I'll see what I can do.
Nice one Mike👍
Thank You.
Hello Mike thanks for sharing and learning a lot Gods Bless
Thank You. And the best to you and yours.
Quite interesting. Never seen anyone else point this idea out. Now I need to go look at the cases on my 76 Shovelhead engine I am building. Might have to try that myself. Thanks Mike, really like your videos.
It's a standard procedure and the old way of doing things. It can be found in Harley Davidson Service Manuals.
Great video Mike thanks for showing the proper way to seal cases. I think I mentioned to you a while back when you showed lapping the evo cases I had a leak in the cases right below the oil filter on my street glide with an M8 motor 1200 miles on it. Dealer resealed cases I doubt they took the time to lap the cases. but so far so good but it's always in the back of my mind. Keep up the great work Kenny
Thanks again!
Super Mike . Always a gentleman full of knowledge with experience . I would love to dream of a 4 - 1/2 stroke Flathead 80 with t&o torque monster wheels with gearing set at 2,700 rpm @ 80 mph . Chrom moly frame . Ride on , Mike . Hope I meet and greet you in my lifetime. All the best, Wild Bill New Hampshire
I believe the torque monster wheels are pretty close to original weight on the big Flathead. I really thing I'll save a lot of grief if I stick with the 4 9/32 stock stroke. The thing is still a boatload of torque and I've got it geared up into the clouds. I'll look forward to meeting you.
@@pacificmike9501 AAA HHhH thank you Mike with those thoughts I spend my money elsewhere keeping mine stock following in your footsteps for gearing too . No copycat just compliments on the steady thoughts. Maybe soon see you on the road . LOL
Amazing job Mike, Rom was not built in one day!!!
I think you're right. Thank You.
Thank you, great video and instruction. Now, if I could just find an old bike to buy.
They're out there.
Mike I hope to look that good at 82 years old. More sage advice also, sweet! I wish you was closer to us. Got my Sportster together and now the starter relay isn’t working. Decided to keep it also for the time being. I got three months to move out where I am living.
Thank You. Moving is a big change. Take care.
SWEEEEEEEEET Mike👍👍🙏🙏🏆🏆 82 YEARS, OLDER than ALL of US WATCHING. I THINK😮😮😒😒🤔🤔
There are some oldtimers out there that watch just to keep me in line.
@@pacificmike9501 😮😮🙏🙏
Good info Mike on this video. Valve lapping compound good for getting stripped screws out too!
Thank You.
How ??
@allynmcfarlin2074 I worked at a MRO A&P Mechanic. Just put some on the screw head, the screw pulls out.
Another great learning video.. Mike it seems like more and more stuff is the same product with different stickers or packaging!!✌🏻
I think a lot of stuff is.
Awesome very cool
Thank You.
🍀 CLOVER
Yep.
Amen ; my morning breakfast for my head - 😁
✊🏻👍👌
Good morning!
@@pacificmike9501 ✊🏻👌👍
Good evening Mike and Mike . How are you ? Thank you for this video.
Good evening. You are quite welcome.
Smooth as a babies hinder end back laying cases now I see thanks Mike LEMAY
Thank You.
Good info as aways
Glad you enjoyed it
I lI’ve the way you explain everything about what you are doing and you still remind me of a old friend that has passed away years Gary Woodford he taught me several things I did not know how to do. And that’s a huge compliment to you my friend. I hope I do see you on the road and I hope you would let me have a picture with you. Stay safe and I hope I will see you on the road shining side up. MLLH&R
Mike, I hope you can get a belt drive to line up pulley-to-pulley with some degree of accuracy. When I first started running belt primary drives, I found it difficult to get decent alignment. That was due to my using tapered engine sprocket shafts and of course; a tapered main shaft on the transmission. Splined sprocket shafts could allow for shims which could aid in pulley-to-pulley alignment of the primary belt. In short, those belts have to be pretty darned straight, or they will wear out quickly along the edge of the belt. Running a Ram Jet "tamer" (clutch retainer) and long needle bearings between the clutch hub and clutch basket helped somewhat. Thanks Mike! Ride safe! -- W
It's all about alignment. I've shown this alot on our videos. I've done them since the early eighties. I've worked with all of the brands. Our videos can be found on our TH-cam Channel. We'll do it again when I set up the belt primary on the Flathead.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks Mike!
Great video Mike. The only thing I would add is to be meticulous about deburring the cases with a flat fine file before lapping because any burr is going to get dragged across the mating surface and interfere with the intention of providing an absolutely perfect mating surface. Later bro.
Good point.
airplane engine cases, i.e. Lycoming and Continental, are sealed by using a thin coat of aviation gasket sealer and then a silk thread is placed in the middle of the flange. They are similar to the Harley cases in that respect.
Yes. I've known several Aircraft mechanics. They are a real wealth of knowledge.
Wish I had someone like you in Australia. Some one who knows his stuff on the older bikes . That’s hard to do here in oz
I think there are a few around. Years ago, I used to go to the Custom Chrome Show. It was an awesome trade show visited by people (shop owners) from all over the world. I don't remember names, but, I met some old mechanics from Australia that could really drink.
Loving it. Quick question, I have a 1990 FXST that I'm thinking about building a striker out of it. I was wondering, if I decided to go with later model EVO heads that are head breathers. I would plug the port in the case, would I also have to go with a later breather gear, or are they the same?
You can do it quite easily. Stock breather gear should work fine. Using both top breather heads and a breather out of the crankcase too relieves a lot of pressure and that stroker probably won't leak.
@@pacificmike9501 right on, thank you
Hi Mike . Just a quick comment. To check the mating surface I have used machinist layout blue on the mating surface then apply the compound. You will know that the surface is flat when the blue is gone.
Yep.
I really like watching you doing all this work Mike and of course I have a question about my 46 knuckle, I have been out on it, [ love it] and it seems to be dripping too much oil, mostly under primary along frame in 3 or 4 spots, could it be the breather putting too much oil on the chain and leaking through primary cover, or pressure set too high. I dont see any oil leaks on motor. Thanks for any light you may be able to give me. Dom
Nice bike👍👍
If the primary is a chain (as it was designed), it is a "total loss" system. The oil comes out the breather tube onto the primary chain, into the bottom of the primary cover, and from there, onto the ground. I've shown this in several videos. That's the way it was originally. Personally, I extend that breather tube behind the primary cover, turn off the oil flow to the breather, put a seal on the motor sprocket shaft, and install a primary belt drive. In the old days, dripping oil out of the primary chaincase was just fine. Harley did this up until 1965 when they installed cast primary covers an oil recirculating system.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks Mike, I'm new to these older bikes and will just keep an eye on my oil level for now. I will put a video up of it soon on my channel.
Mike when do expect to start assembly on the big inch side valve ?
I'm retired and have a lot of things to do. Most of the work on this motor is prep work, research, and waiting for things, some to be shipped, some to be made. If I had to be in a hurry, I wouldn't do it.
👍🖖
Thank You.
Hi, are there locating dowels in the castings or just the bolts for alinement. Thanks.
The cases have specific studs for assembling them together. There are two of them that are very specific in their diameter. We'll show them when we assemble the cases.
Does this work for the late shovel as well?
Certainly. It's even in the Service Manual. I've done this on my Shovelhead every time it's been down that far.
Hello Mike, What sealant do you recommend between cases surfaces to avoid oil leakage ?. Thank you in advance
I made recommendations on the video. Yamabond, three bond. There are several on the market. All that I've tried have performed fine. Currently, I've been using Three Bond.
@@pacificmike9501 thank you very much Mike. Greetings from Ecuador South America 🇪🇨
Greetings!
And people sometimes wonder why custom hand built motors cost so much. The amount of hand fitting to be done to have them done right.
And coming up with the right combination of stuff and procedures for the job the motor is going to do. And the "experimentation" goes on forever. Ain't it fun?
Interesting how they managed to machine that lip into the edge.
Once set up, I'm sure it was done on a Bridgeport mill, probably quite quickly.
@@pacificmike9501 Seems like it would be better to turn that lip on a lathe. More precise, better finish, and quicker.
Way back when I used toothpaste and cigarette ash for a mirror finish.Have you ever heard of that? Smells good too HahaHAha
Toothpaste is great for polishing things. I used to restore dash knobs in old cars with it. It really does wonders on some of the early plastics and soft metals. When lapping cases, we don't want a mirror finish. We need an even, matched surface, smooth, not slick.
Suddenly I have a desire to tear my shovel down and lap the cases!
No, we do that when we're doing a complete rebuild.
I was attempting sarcasm
If pistons are the feet of things & con rods are the legs,
pushing crank pin knees around a set of flywheel pegs.
If main bearings are the hip joints, then the cases are it's pants,
well cast in al-you-mini-um (to invoke old 'wordsmith' rants).
With a pair of leg holes up the top , & stiffness all around,
to help stave off incontinence, they like their edges ground.
. . So, we must leave our hero lapping a pair of rigid shorts for his flathead, & ponder the curse of vertical gussets. Y'all : )
Hey Mike, I won't be able to make that swap meet, but if you happen to find a complete forward control set for a 82 Sturgis FXB. I would absolutely make it worth your while to pick those up for me. I have some extra cash I want to put into my old Harley.
It would be nice if we could all do that for each other, but not really possible.
Are you going to give the cases the Glyptal treatment or leave them raw?
Huh? I think I missed something. You may have to s'plain at Chopperfest.
i love the trouble these rich TH-camr's go to for a 'give away' bike.
Sorry Mike, i know it wasn't funny the first time i made that comment.
All the best.
Giveaway Bike? I'm building this to ride. The reason it takes so long? Not just effort, money. And I wish you every bike you lust after. That's what we do.
Mike, you're a long time mc mechanic and probably prefer having bikes that are still manageable to work on. Have you ever owned a M8 are considering buying. What are you're impressions of them. Having the test equipment and constant software upgrades is probably prohibitive to do the deep dive on the electronics.
Not exactly my cup of tea. This morning, I road my old Shovelhead in the mountains. It was a beautiful morning. Climbing the mountains with that kind of raw, homebuilt torque was a real party, way more power than I could even use. It's the kind of party I crave.
Hi Mike hope you getting everything sorted out I miss the days of my life taking off with my good frainds and going down to the doggy dinner to see all the bikes a lot of attitudes and good people we would take my frainds dad's Norton pull the baffles out disconnect the speedo cable after a while Jim his dad found out he told us I now what your doing and that's OK but Dam it to hill leave the speedo cable along now go and have a good time I was 16 year old at the time there was one guy down there he would look out for us and he told us if I till you wet assessment to leave I mean it so that was the way I got enclosed with biking it was in my family to my mother's first husband own a bike shop in penole calif my mother would help break down the bikes and her husband would do the repairs so bikes were always in our family Lemay
Very Cool. Great memories.
ALSO Mike HOW DO U KNOW IT'S the PADS, WHAT ABOUT the PAD BACKPLATES NOT HAVING GREASE OR NOT ENOUGH. OR NOT IN the RIGHT SPOTS. HOW DOES ONE KNOW Mike , WHICH IT IS ?
Trust me. Some pads are noisy and some are not. Sometimes the material the pads are made of is noisy. Sometimes the material holds debris you picked up on the road. My solution to disc brake noise is Kevlar. How do I know this? From the same experience over and over again.
@@pacificmike9501 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
By the time you are finished lapping you will have a Flathead that will not mark its territory.
Interesting theory
That’s the Love, if you jelly roll fat belt machine’s you could put those on a diet!
Okay.
2:00 or-don’t run a 82 year old engine in plus 100 degree weather over 80 mph …
Wow. Thank You.
Abraid
Yes, like aircraft?
@@pacificmike9501 i think i was getting at the abrasive action of the lapping compound.