Hylas 56 Review - now being produced under the Bluewater Yacht name
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ธ.ค. 2022
- This is a tour around a 2013 Hylas 56. It was our favourite boat at Annapolis this year. A bit large for a cruising couple, but it really makes us want to see an old 49 (which had an encapsulated keel) or the new 48.
This is a bit more complicated than a straight Hylas review though. Showing us around is Kyle from Bluewater Yachts. Kyle is planning on keeping the Hylas 56 going under the Bluewater Yacht name. Hylas themselves have discontinued the 56 and replaced it with the 57 and 60 which have redesigned hulls with twin rudders.
It seems like a complicated, and not an altogether smoothly running, story with Bluewater Yachts buying the mould and originally taking over the tooling for the 56 at the same yard that builds the Outbound. In fact, hull number one was released as an Outbound.
Whatever the complications of the brand if Bluewater Yachts can settle down to producing some of the classic Hylas boats as well as Hylas did, or better (they have a list of improvements on the original design but still keeping the hull shape) then this will be a good thing.
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My favorite part of this vessel, is that incredible nav station. That sold me.
I have done a lot of sailing on a Hylas 44 and later a 46. They are really lovely boats and, as others have said, probably underrated outside the USA.
Such a beautiful boat. I met Kyle at Annapolis last year, I think on a different 56. The build quality and equipment is just amazing. I sat in the cockpit and dreamed about being 100nm out from Bermuda. 😁
Brian, Thank you!
I like your reviews! I see them geared more for those of us with little sailing experience, yet still giving common sense information from two people that are live aboard(?)cruisers. Don’t know why so many people are quick with snide and snarky comments...keep up the excellent videos!
Very interesting. Thanks!
very nice video. Thank you
👍 Nice looking boat.
Love that nav station
@Mal Yes, you´re right - a hull window would be great, but considering the low down and hidden place, sometimes I like to isolate myself when I need to work.
I’m not sure if it ends up being personal choice or just what you get used to. When we brought Fair Isle I thought ‘living in a Hobbit Hole’ would be a down side, but we both love it.
I love this is boat.
This yacht is defiantly a 56" that is awesome for a cruising couple and I think even a single handed sailor.
I think that you might be surprised how easy these big boats are to handle. In my view Hylas have always been a little underrated outside of the US. Frers designs have always been good. Outside of the US Hylas have suffered from lack of EU certification, which limits the secondhand market, and the 110 volt systems.
The main problem with these longer type boats is that so many European ports and marinas are difficult for boats over 15 metres.
Yes as I said in a previous reply it’s not the handling that I think might be a challenge for a cruising couple so much, it’s the cost and effort of the upkeep, it’s a lot of boat to keep on top of!
Mike, We did have the H56 CE Certified as well as certifying the 56 when we moved yards and are building as our new Bluewater 56. With one mold we have been limited to 4/5 new builds for this design every year. With these limited production numbers we simply made the decision decades ago to not make an effort to market in Europe. We did build and deliver for several European owners over the years for owners who sought us out however we have never advertised or marketed in the UK directly. We did set up a broker in the UK for several years who sold a handful of new builds there but we were simply sold out each year here so kept our focus in the U.S.
Falling in love with this boat. It seems to compete well with brands like Swan and Oyster.
As a cruising boat yes definitely. The Swan is too much of a racer and Oyster have sold out to compete with cheaper production boats in my opinion. Older ones are nice though.
As a cruising boat yes definitely. The Swan is too much of a racer and Oyster have sold out to compete with cheaper production boats in my opinion. Older ones are nice though.
I nearly felt emotional watching this all my memories of the 1980’s came flooding back. I have also never heard of having less access to your engine being a positive. As you may know we have a Beneteau Oceanis 58 which has access from three sides and would I swap it for an engine room, in a heart beat.
I suppose sailing is a mater of opinion, for me a modern yacht wins every day of the week over a yacht design from 40 years ago, and that may be why HR, Oyster et al are all moving that way. 22:16 22:16
Interesting observation and do know our Bluewater 56 is still very much of a "modern" design which was created in 2011. As I point out in another response below, the move toward wider beams and twin rudders has more to do with competing for entertainment space and even more so, competing against catamaran designs which have dominated the marine market for almost two decades. These new designs are extremely vulnerable for those who wish to circumnavigate South America or attempt the NW passage. The reality is a collision can happen anywhere and the Twin Rudder phenomenon is very recent. The result will be numerous stories in the coming years of yachts colliding with an unknown object and being abandoned. It happened again this week aboard a trimaran several hundred miles offshore. A J133 Vamoose which I have raced on, rescued the crew who's yacht went down two hours after being picked up 250nm NW of Bermuda. Story was in Scuttlebutt this week.
@@kylejachney I am not sure about air quotes around modern. Look I understand people barking back to a nostalgic time, we nearly bought a Morgan car at one stage and I also commend you for fill that gap in the market of yachts that want to travel through the NW passage and down to Cape Horn, it is a market my wife and I have often said needs plugging. I thought Aluminium yachts were more likely to do that, but you should be a healthy alternative. I also hope you are successful.
What I have an issue with is this idea that all designers are wrong and we will find out that twin rudders are completely bad and you are right. Other than yourselves and the Kraken, which is a truly awful yacht, who is going down your route, are Garcia, HR and Oyster misguided in the direction they are going?
I have an issue with this devotion to single wheel Center cockpits that mean visibility very limited and the space for your crew in non existent, again get with twin wheels.
Nice boat I liked the standing rigging thats wire rope instead of solid rod there are places like the heads I would be fitting glass particions the minor things when you are trying make something your own all in all a good boat I don't think the price was mentioned ? Thanks jf
“We are not looking at these boats for something to buy”… as Oscar Wild said “I can resist everything but temptation” 😇
Have you seen Fair isle? True love
Great tour, comon sence says the 49 but I would get the 56 all day.
Do you have any plans to review the Island Packet 439 (Capsize Screening Formula: 1.81)?
Yes it’s on our list, got to find one first!
Guys I think you're putting too much emphasis on capsize screening ratio (ie some emphasis). That number was conceived after the 79 Fastnet and was slightly useful for quickly identifying IOR cheater boats that had pushed beam too far. In that context it sort of meant something because it compared boats that were broadly the same and those two variables (displacement and beam) said something about how quickly a boat might recover from a 180. It doesn't indicate the boat's stability but rather its inverse stability. What you don't want is a boat the is stable upside down, ie a wide shallow dish.
But the formula reveals nothing about where the weight and buoyancy are (the inverse metacentric height), the buoyancy and form stability of the topsides, the watertightness of the topsides, the amount of water captured by superstructure in a roll.
Yes don’t worry I look at all the figures and construction, you just need some easy ways of quick pointing out differences in boats without taking half an hour to do it and making a boring video. These are just quick boat tours that I try to give a little bit of extra tech information in. We will do something specifically on in depth boat design at some time, I just need to find a couple of good expert interviewees for that one.
Yachting World made a poll, and readers came back with Hallberg Rassy as no 1 choice for ocean cruiser. Die Yacht did same with German readers choosing X Yacht for no 1 choice for Ocean cruiser. I am sailing X Yacht for 12 years with 4 Atlantic crossings and one single handed, and have so much trust in my X, that delivers speed under all circumstances without sacrificing comfort or safety and high comfort due to high stability, and the excitement of sailing. I find that your choices are to take the bus rather that to go sailing for the sailing part. Per, X Yacht Mathilde
Yes if you want to sail for the experience of sailing the X Yacht will give you that! We sail a lot with our friends on an XP55 & it’s a fantastic sailing machine but for most cruisers it’s far too much boat!
Per, the X Yachts are excellent designs and I have friends who own these and race these competitively. Do know though that in the case of our Frers designed 56, design with an extremely similar design and pedigree to the Swan 56, just slightly less draft, performance has been a strong suit to our design. Our 56 has a PHRF rating of 55 with a similar/relative IRC rating. She rates better than all of our competitive builders including the Oyster and HR designs in this size. This is not a design that you will do a buoy race in however as an offshore, point to point design such as Bermuda Race, she does exceptionally well. Our 56 has won its class in the Annapolis Bermuda Race, place very well in the Bermuda Race, has won several Great Lakes distance races and in the Annapolis-Newport Race, our 56 led every yacht boat for boat out of the Chesapeake and up the East coast. This is not a cruisers race and almost every yacht around her owed our 56 time. The polars have her as an easy double digit design and I have sailed/surfed her to speeds flirting with 20 knots (documented). Enjoy your X Yacht, it is a great boat!
Love me a Hylas and the 56 is my favorite, but If you need to replace the engine, how is it removed without tearing the boat apart?
Thanks for this review guys yes it's a lovely boat.... couple of questions if I may.... is the single rudder skegged..... what's the hull thickness and finally is the anchor lazerette totally seperate please?
The rudder on the Hylas was skegged, but not fully. If Kyle is on here he will be able to tell you more about what exactly the Bluewater will have, I know they have some changes in the pipe line.
Also, am I to assume the keel from what I can see is a lead bulb bolted onto a fully enclosed shoal keel style.... just seen her up for sale and lifted out?
Frank, the Bluewater 56 rudder, similar to our previous design, the H54 are partially skegged rudders. The skeg is a 60% skeg which allows full steerage and control even if any of the sacrificial section below is lost. Hull thickness is significant. between 20 to 24 layers in the lay-up schedule. What is most important and unfortunately, I did not stress strongly enough in the review is the use of Twaron (Carbon Aramid) in the hull. This is laid in alternate layers and makes the hull literally 2.5X stronger than a straight FRP lay up as used in many yachts in this class. Finally, yes, the sail locker, both stern lazarettes and the stern garage are all watertight to the interior if the yacht.
@@kylejachney thanks Kyle for the confirmation here on these points and if possible would you happen to know how far back in other size builds this design and build go to please? Finally, as a fully integrated keel would the lead bulb attached toa shoal keel be bolted on please?
@@future-frank Frank, the predecessor to the 56 is the H54. My father created the H54 back in 1997 and the first of the 54's was introduced in 1998 of which we built almost 60. I redesigned the 54 to the 56 in 2010 with Frers which features a 31" longer water line, much larger cockpit and new styling to the coachroof. This slight increase in volume allowed us to make changes within the engine room as well as owners head and galley. The other designs our family introduced include the H49 in 1992, the H46 in 1995, H66 in 2004, H70 in 2006 and H63 in 2014. All Frers designs and with bolted keels with the exception of the H49 which was S&S and with an encapsulated keel. Regarding the Keel, to be clear, whether the design is Shoal or Standard Draft, the keels are solid lead with the stainless bolts recessed into the keel molds more than 50%. These keels are solid through the bulbs, the bulbs are not attached or integrated separately. I hope this helps.
Nice boat, Are you going to review the Amel 50?
Would love to, have to find one first!
We may need to reevaluate 'our' idea of what a Good offshore boat is.
Hi Guys, a question. You spoke about this Hylas being too big for you at it's 56 foot length. Why is that? Not particularly this yacht, but yachts of the same size and bigger. Hallberg Rassy, for example, are always emphasising their yachts ease of handling, they're even building a new flag-ship model, the HR 69 which they also say can be short-handed (two people). The Amel 60 can be single handed, and with it's bow and stern thrusters, can also be maneuvered easily in marinas. Would be good to get your feedback on this, perhaps as a section in one of your upcoming VLOGS. 🙏
Yes very good question. I'm glad you asked it because I wasn't really talking about the size in respect to sailing. Fair Isle is actually 57 foot overall with the bow sprit, so in terms of ease of handling has all the vices of being a big boat in a small marina! However this isn't a problem I find even with her full keel, a HR with bow and stern thrusters would be a breeze by comparison! (well maybe not the twin ruddered variety as these are a pig to maneuver & you will 100% rely on the thrusters) Fair Isle also has the sail plan of a 57 footer of course but because she's cutter rigged not a problem. I do think going over 45 foot you need to be cutter rigged short handed so the sail sizes are manageable. Yes you can have power winches, but I think for cruising this isn't the way to go (not if you NEED them to sail anyway) So yes bigger might = more difficult to sail in some ways, but the real reason I personally would not want to go that big is not sailing it's maintenance and complexity. We have a quite maintenance heavy boat with Fair Isle but this is mainly cosmetic, woodwork and the like. It's a lot of work but it's mainly mindless jobs, I related it cutting the grass if you own a house with a big garden! The jobs that get on top of you are things going wrong and there's just more of them on a larger boats. Maybe if money is no object and you don't mind sourcing good workers then go for it.
@@svfairisle Thanks for your comprehensive answer 👍 I understand the issues with twin rudder setups, also understand why most are going or have already gone that way. What I don’t understand is why such twin rudders don’t have any protection forward of them like on the Kraken (single rudder I know).
It's actually a very difficult thing to do (skegging a twin rudder) When full keeled boats gave way to long keeled so the rudder could no longer be keel hung, they started adding skegs. Now a lot of these early skegs had the problem that although they could protect the rudder from most things a really hard grounding they could rip the skeg straight out. This obviously gave you an even bigger problem, a big hole in your hull! Building a skeg tough enough is difficult enough when you're mounting in on the bottom of the boat (the keelson) Mounting something that strong on the side of the hull would be impossible/too expensive I would think
I always ask, on passage do you want to be in your cockpit or on your aft deck while underway? Some so called off shore cruiser helm positions would not be nice places to be in a blow. Sadly finances mean that I will have to stick with my ageing Contessa.😁
Contessa 35? Great boat!
Really liked the boat, but the draft seems to be around 1.90m - too much in several places (my boat´s draft is even worse: 2.10m). If I were to buy a boat right now I would buy one with a retractable keel.
You won’t get a boat that size with a more shallow draft. Unless as you say you go for a drop keel, but that means twin rudders. Would you be comfortable nosing into a shallow anchorage with the keel up knowing if you did mess up yould use your rudders? My feeling is that the whole shoal draft thing might be great on paper, but does it work on practice?
@@svfairisleIt depends on where the boat is. For example, in Brazil, north of Rio de Janeiro, there are very few places where you can enter with a draft of +2.0m, and sometimes the distance between available ports are more than 200 miles.
Pedro, I agree with SFI in that you simply cannot, will not find yachts in the 50+ size with drafts much less than 6.5'. As it is, this shoal design does compromise performance by several degrees which adds up to miles and time offshore. There are always places that less draft would be ideal. Even in the Bahamas our standard draft of 7.5' is still very mangeable even if it means anchoring out a bit further.
@@kylejachney You´re right, there is no 50+ size boats with fixed keels and much less than 1.90m draft (my own boat has a 2.10m draft). I know retractable keels may not offer the same performance, but in some places a 2.0m draft is too limiting and retractable keels may be preferable. One such place is the South America east coast. It is an open coast where, with the exception of some regions where there are bays, such as Salvador, the south of Rio de Janeiro and the north of São Paulo, you cannot enter almost anywhere if the draft is too great. And being anchored offshore on a beach dozens of kilometers long and with braking waves is not a very viable option.
Awesome review and walk-through. Question: why not twin rudders? Seems like a lot of the industry is going that way, and sounds like a deal breaker for you. Curious for your thoughts why.
Well that would be a long answer! But briefly it’s not just about the twin rudders, remember in most cases the twin rudders are their because the hull shape has been designed first and fore most for the interior capacity and that has led to the need for twin rudders. The rudders themselves may not be a deal breaker if you’re sailing local sailing grounds that you know well as 99% of sailors will be. And if you want a sporty weekend sail then even better. But for us cruisers who go into new anchorages and harbours every day and want to go to remote locations, having two exposed rudders sticking out the side of your boat is really the last thing I would want.
New unfortunately is not necessarily better. Twin Rudders has never been determined to be superior a single rudder for performance, every competitive racing class sailed around the world, from the J70 to TP52 is designed with a single rudder for a reason. Twin rudders is simply a result of designs getting wider at the aft end. These new designs with width are occurring because more and more of these yachts are becoming entertainment platforms and not based on long term cruising design. Builders such as Beneteau, Jeanneau and Hanse are competing against the catamaran industry which has dominated the marine industry for years and eaten a large share from these builders. There are real performance issues with twin rudders and no builder can give you a straight answer as to how these have improved their overall performance. Wider sterns, with the aft chines buried in the water further aft negatively affect upwind pointing. Again, these rudders are required due to beam carried aft. This beam is a direct result of competing for deck/entertainment space. And do not buy into a "second" rudder adds redundancy. As Steve points out in is Oyster review, the twin design does not handle the loads well when one of the two rudders has failed. Case in point is the Hanse 588 which was abandoned during last years ARC.
@@kylejachney Thanks! I am not well versed enough to have an opinion, but I do see more modern hulls having them and also seeing them winning offshore races. One item I have heard is at serious angles of heel they provide more grip...anyway, thanks for the discussion!
@@ezmn9663 Loss of steerage is one of your greater risks while out at sea and for bluewater boats. Having twin rudders that are out of line with the keel lends to that being more susceptible and possibility of lossing your steerage. With more and more stuff out in the waters today, this is an important consideration for bluewater boats.
As kylejachney stated twin rudders came about not due to superior performance, but they came about due to racing sailboats that are light hulls that were hoping to have better chances to plane. So when they started to develop planing hulls for racing. These hulls were designed as flatter (less wet area) and longer, but this meant it had more form stability issues. So they designed wider aft ends. Now the problem is you have a racing hull that is close to planing or is planing at faster speeds and with that wider aft stern and it is heeling over. They had an issue with so much of the stern lifting up and out of the water (as it is wider and flatter) and rudder being in the center was also coming so far out of the water that it was not allowing it to have as much control. So to fix that issue ... Twin Rudders. So you have a rudder no matter which way the boat is heeling and gave it much better performance with that hull shape. Now cruise boats did not care about performance as much, but they did like that wider stern and being less rounded, all of which gave more interior space particularly for an aft cabin and also for boats with bigger aft ends or bigger aft cockpits. So production cruising boats have loved this wider aft ends concept due to appealing for better space. Twin rudders for such a wider aft end when it heels over so much, can work better for that type of hull shape. But they do not work any better for more redundancy nonsense nor give it any more better performance. As we are talking about cruising boats that are loaded down, and not about light racing boats. While twin rudders is better for that hull shape, that comes at a big cost or con of making your steerage more vulnerable. Nor is it the rudders themselves that has improved performance, but the shape of the racing boat hull that was designed to plane. Once a boat can plane, then it has better performance.
If the rigging will be converted to rod rigging they will save a lot of weight high up. On a big boat furling rig is easy and practical, may worth the compromise..
Yes, and I’ld like to see some manufacturers going dyneema for the shrouds.
Fantastic boat. A little large truly. I need to ask why nobody speaks about the sleeping position on center cockpit boats. Even if aft cabins often have limited ventilation I'll surely choose the aft sleeping position because of no slamming. In fact I don't know how to sleep in a forward cabin as a couple on passage. Doesn't anyone care about sleeping comfortably together? I can squeeze myself in an aft cabin on an aft cockpit design but for two almost none of them will do it for living on board. Good sleep is such an important point and moving around all the time is not an option to me.
Yes good sleeping is very important and you’re right centre cockpits should mean you get a great state room aft cabin. But actually with a properly designed boat for ocean sailing you should have no slamming that is a product of modern designs. We have no slamming even in heavy conditions going to wind on Fair Isle so the forehead cabin is fine to sleep in (ours is just small)
@@svfairisle But the movement of the boat is still far heavier than in an aft cabin. Noise or not doesn't improve the situation very much. A bad ventilated cabin can be technicality solved. Heavy movement cannot.
I’m on the fence…..The Hylas 56 or Allures 51.9? I welcome your Thoughts 💭
Can't really comment with any confidence as I've never been on an Allures. But for me Hylas I think. I'm not a fan of metal boats (only from a maintenance point of view) and I just prefer the interior of the Hylas/Bluewater.
The Allures is a nice design though several significant differences. The Twin Rudder issue cannot be downplayed. Friends of mine rescued a crew several hundred miles offshore this week who hit something offshore and holed the hull of the port ama of an offshore trimaran design. In just one year there have been boats abandoned due to rudder failures/impact. The decision on metal is a subjective one also. Carbon laid hulls have proven impact wise to be as strong or stronger than metal. It is an interesting design though and you just need to get aboard/sail both.
I've always liked Hylas - I wish they had not jumped on the current monohull design bandwagon. The 49 is very highly regarded by people like John Kretchmer. Question: This or the Kraken?
It’s a difficult one! For the ultimate safe cruising boat, the Kraken, but for somewhere nice to live the Hylas. If you pushed me I think I’d go for the Hylas
This is where I will politely disagree with SFI regarding the "safe" cruising boat. I know the Kraken design well and the K50 was built directly next to my last two BW56 hulls at the Hansheng Yard in Xiamen prior to their moving to a new yard in Turkey. First, I will say that the Kraken is in fact an excellent design. There are just a few items I think we intentionally offer a better design option. One aspect of the Kraken selling point is the "Zero" keel. There is nothing unique in the design. It is an excellent encapsulated design. My issue with this style design, and Kraken is not alone in this, is that there is solid lead at the bottom of the keel. The "structure" of the Keel however is FRP and not solid lead to the remainder of the Hull. We make the argument that a "solid" Lead keel from top to bottom that is attached via 16 massive and deep keel bolts is in fact much stronger and less vulnerability to the main hull in the case of hard grounding or collision. We also prefer a partial skeg vs. a full skeg. This design decision was made after our Hylas 49 design had a collision and the Skeg impacted the rudder rendering it useless which is not ideal offshore. Finally, the most important part of the yacht is the Hull. I should have made this point much more strongly in the review which is that our Hull's are laid with alternaite layers of Twaron (Carbon Aramid) through the entire lay up. Not just a layer or two in a few key areas. Our hull lay up is structurally significantly stronger than Kraken, Oyster, Hallberg and Amel. It is not that the hull design is superior, we simply are the only builder that uses as many as 12 layers throughout the ENTIRE hull lay up. As a consequence we are simply measurably stronger. Four days ago an Offshore Trimaran design was holed through the Hull by hitting something 250NW of Bermuda. This was not the keel or rudder but in fact the hull itself. I do appreciate that SFI would still choose our design regardless!
Dick is certainly a cleaver salesman, but he's definitely not ignorant. He builds boats that HE would want to cruise from years of experience actually cruising himself. I agree with you both that there are good ways of attaching a keel, and an encapsulated keel doesn't have to be a requirement for a good cruising boat, but I would still go for an encapsulated keel every time. No I don't think a properly constructed bolt on keel is going to fall off, but you ground it hard and you'll want to be lifting to check those bolts, you'll also start to worry about them as the boat ages and want to have them checked. This is just another expensive, time-consuming and nasty job to have to do. i disagree completely about the rudders however. Yes you can build them strong enough to take the ground, but that is in a very controlled way on a good surface. Both boats I have experience of who were rendered without steering after a small knock were boats that were designed to take the ground. I'm sure it's possible to design good systems for twin ruddered boats, I'd like to find out who does it the best and then see how robust that system really is. Anyone know who makes the best system?
@@deerfootnz I don’t quite know how you get to that! The whole industry it seems, with very few exceptions, is now selling boats built for partying not for going to sea. That’s okay I suppose as the vast majority of buyers want a boat for fun and entertainment not for passage making. Dick absolutely stands out as someone who is making a proper voyaging boat. He could sell more boats and make much more money building boats for the mass market I’m absolutely sure of that, but this isn’t what he is about. When you spend time with Dick it’s clear to see his boats are his passion, in many ways he would rather be out cruising full time himself and forget the whole boat building thing ( he doesn’t exactly need to make more money to do that) When we interviewed him he had just stepped off the latest Kraken after personally being on the 500 mile shake down cruise. How many companies do that, let alone have the CEO on the boat? There would be no reason for him to build a bog standard boat, Kraken will be his legacy, We need more people like him.
@@deerfootnz I still don’t get your point. Dick isn’t referring to the cheaper production boats when he talks about spade rudders. It would be slightly disingenuous to just do that if it was a boat built and marketed as a coastal cruiser. Actually in this respect I think he’s been very restrained because 1) some of these boats do still have the cheek to call themselves ‘blue water boats’ 2) even the one that put the effort in to build them properly end up with something not as robust as Krakens design (just arguably lighter to steer with more feed back. But having sailed the Kraken I would say it has plenty of feel & I 100% agree with Dick, you don’t need fingertip steering with a cruising yacht) 3) this is the main point. He could just compare the kraken to twin ruddered boats because this bizarrely wouldn’t even be a cheap shot any more, With the likes of Oyster, Hylas, Hallberg Rassy etc going that way he would actually be comparing apples with apples. It just that one is a big strong Bramley sitting snug in the tree close to the trunk and the others are a couple of French Golden Delicious hanging out at the end of spindly branches both overhanging the path where the tractor goes just trusting the farmer won’t ever drive too close!
Saw the new Hylas 57 in Sausalito, absolutely beautiful. Makes this boat feel outdated and old. I’m sure this boat will sail well and safe. But design has moved on.
It all depends on what you intend to do with your boat
I think it's hilarious that people get upset about the weight of the sails in in mast furling... the sails weigh the same amount whether they're rolled up in the mast or not....
Not sure what you mean. The weight of a rolled up sail in a mast along with the mandrel in the mast that it wraps around is really significant. In a storm you want the main sail down and the weight at boom level not up the mast.
Interesting that you mention Hylas no longer building the 46 and the 49. You said it’s just the newer style, twin rudder boats being built by Hylas. But you completely glossed over their beautiful 48!
Yes the halberg rassy 48 mk2 in my book is the perfect cruising yacht
Yes I agree the 48 is lovely, but sadly it's bitten the dust as well.
I think you’re mistaken. The H48 only began deliveries in the last two years and is actively marketed.
@@Dan-sw8pv You’re dead right, I’m getting my models mixed up. The 48 is a great Bill Dixon design and still being made. The only none twin ruddered model they have left.
The H48 originally was introduced over a decade ago as the Saturn 48, of which three were built. When our family and QL separated, the 48 was available and was reintroduced as the H48 and is still available to be built under the Hylas name.
My Discovery 55 is far superior to the Hylas 56. Purchased "Discovery Awaits" new in 2008 and have sailed to most of your cruising grounds. The Hylas looks very well built but also old fashioned.
It's a shame discovery went into receivership, great boats. I prefer the look of the Hylas but that's just personal choice.
The Dicovery 55 is/was an excellent design and know this yacht well. It is not a superior design, simply slightly different in its cruising approach. The D55 design focused on the Pilothouse approach only, the original owner of Discovery I believe made a mistake in not offering this design with both a Raised Saloon as well as Pilothouse option. The specs/interior volume coefficient are very similar to the original H56 as well as Oyster 56 and while we both offered that as an option, the Pilothouse was almost never chosen over the Raised Saloon. I think the design would have had a much longer run if this was offered/considered. Discovery, like Oyster and HR also do not offer carbon in their lay up as we have when we built the Hylas and now Bluewater designs. For a nominal cost increase, the increase in hull integrity is significant. The 56 is in fact a design that is eleven years, newer in design than the D55. Just as the 55 evolved to the 57/58 we evolved the 54 to the 56 in 2011. The appearance as with most of these designs are subjective for all owners.
You can not beat the raised dinette of the Discovery.
@@sailawaysoon4476 It is a great design option. In the U.S market it never was of interest. Like having teak decks. We offer the 56 with this option. After almost 100 boats built between the 54 and 56, given the choice owners always chose the Raised Saloon option. This was true for Oyster as well. One of the few drawbacks to the raised seating/Pilot House was the shortening of the saloon overall and the added steps back and forth to the galley and cabins. All subjective.
Look at the quality and not at the price
But how many sailing folk actually ‘need’ a true bluewater sailing boat? You guys (so far) haven’t needed one and the overwhelming majority of Europeans will remain coastal and/or in Mediterranean waters. Some may push out to the Canaries and Cape Verde and on to the Caribbean, but providing you are careful with the weather, crossing the pond with trade winds is not exactly arduous. In my opinion, the vast majority of recreational sailors do not need to pay so much more for a ‘bluewater’ sailing boat when their actually sailing is likely to be well controlled.
Yes that’s true very few people need a blue water boat, so why do manufacturers insist on calling just about every boat a blue water boat? They should just be honest about it as say, this will do just fine for what you have in mind. If that happened then maybe the few boat builders that still want to produce boats to go off shore would do better and more would survive and stick with good designs. There will always be people like us that want to circumnavigate and it’d be nice if there were always good boats around to do it in ( that were less than 30 years old!)
I have a different twist. I have owned 7 sailboats in my lifetime. Ranging from 23 to 37 feet. All classic plastic boats. Until recently, i bought a double ender cutaway full keel Ted Brewer design. We sail on the Pacific Ocean. The stiffness and ruggedness of this vessel surpasses anything we have owned. Out in a blow of 30k, you feel remarkably safe. The Beneteau Oceanis did not. But in reality, how many do want to cross oceans? If you did, i would take a true bluewater vessel. Matt Rutherford from Red Dot on the Ocean does a podcast and does deliveries to the Caribbean and back and sometimes Atlantic crossings of all different boats. His perspective is to get a bluewater water boat if you can from his experience. Matt, being a true middle class citizen, knows they are not cheap.
Basically that is a correct statement until A) the weather and sea conditions do deteriorate quickly and unexpectedly and B) you run into that container, log, or some other unexpected object. As I point out in one of my other responses, a yacht was lost four days ago after hitting an unknown object. Friends aboard a J133 I have raced on were able to rescue them about 250nm NW of Bermuda. This is where hull integrity, rudder and keel designs all come into consideration. To argue to your point however, more Catalina's have sailed around the world than anyone so you have that argument! For companies that build yachts such as our's, we recognize we are marketing to, and building for a very small part of the sailing market. Even in our best years, between the Hylas designs my family was building at the time, Oyster, HR, Amel, Discovery and throw in Swan, collectively we have delivered an average of 30-40 yachts a year in the U.S. Our clientele in general are sailing much further than just the Med and making the downwind trip to the Caribbean.
As someone who has never sailed before, but wants to learn, and in a decade or two, buy a boat and do this, I can tell you that I won’t be feeling mega-adventurous. All I would likely ever do is sail the med, maybe cross the Atlantic, and do the Caribbean. And maybe alternate between the two locations every couple of years. I can tell you that I’m NOT a thrill seeker, and even now, the idea of being in the middle of the “so-called” easy trade winds of the suppose toy easy Atlantic sound pretty daunting to me.
Maybe it’s naivety and inexperience, but I can’t understand why anyone would cross an ocean in a non-blue-water boat. Everything about genuine blue water boats seems obviously safer and common sense the only option.
"If you need to ask the price, you can't..."
we as in the the cheap labour employed to build this boat..... please
Phil, yes, the walk through is a sale discussion and discussion for understanding the caliber of yacht and systems we have offered for decades. You are correct that we have the advantage of excellent labor rates. We are also working with a job force that has an incredible work ethic and skill set. I have worked overseas in Asia building for close to 40 years and they are impressive. The line of yachts including Nordhavn, Hylas, Outbound, Passport, Tayana, HH and many others are all built within 100 miles of each other. It is important to understand as well that actually more than half the cost of these yachts originate in parts from all around the world including many parts of Europe and the U.S. The rigs, sails and electronics are a significant parts of these builds and all are built and most often installed in the U.S. "We" are involved in every aspect from design, to customization, production management, commissioning and service. I hope you make it aboard sometime tot appreciate it.
sales talk
Kyle is a Flim Flam man and a scam artist of the first order. While working as a rep for Hylas he took our 100K deposit and never sent it to the shipyard who was to produce the boat. He did this to many other people. Run, don’t walk, in the other direction. Never deal with this dishonest person.