StarCraft 2: Goblin MASSES PHOENIXES vs Reynor! (Best-of-3)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Phoenixes are not a very common unit currently at the professional level of StarCraft 2 in the Zerg versus Protoss matchup. We see them from time to time, but these days it is all about Void Rays and Carriers. In this video I cast a best-of-3 series of Zerg versus Protoss between Reynor and Goblin.
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I can’t wait to overestimate my platinum league skill level and attempt to pull off this Phoenix +1 attack opener.
Normal day on the platinum ladder
Hold my silver
spam phoenix is how I get my daily win vs elite AI, should do fine on plat ladder :P
Not gonna lie I managed it of in diamond 1
In 2v2
While being carried by my teamate...
But hey that still counts
@@missbelled6700 Elite AI is absolutly trash :D.
Phoenix? Whats that? What type of Void Ray is that?
It is a nerfed purifier void ray, rarely seen but almost as effective as normal nerfed nerazim void ray.
It's the pew pew void ray
@@iseektheholygrail2055 no no no they are made with a gateway?
@@mso2013 I’m pretty sure it’s a robo bay
I remember a time where Zerg was the race that you couldn't leave alone. Oh how the turns have tabled.
This dropped perfectly aligned to my dinner time. Now I don't have to worry what to watch.
My man.
Not to be that guy, but you never have to worry what to watch since there's about a 100000+ really good and interesting vids to watch on YT as we speak.. So you got all your entertainment lined up, but always, not enough time to watch it! ; )
F for that single high templar eating 3 biles at 18:05 :(
He shall be one with the khala now
F
F
F
F...
...OR THE SWARM
51:00 You're not blind Lowko. He built it under the overlords so Goblin wouldn't notice. =)
Lowko send this replay to Harstem and see if Protoss is imba or Raynor (almost) sucked 😅
Harstem will just stamp everyone with his you-suck-stamp. :P
But the fact that everybody plays mass Voids on the ladder is a sign that something isn't well balanced. Voidray does 28 dps and 44 vs Armored. For comparison: Mutas do 9 dps.
I also don't think Goblin played all that well. He didn't even split his air to cover both bases, and he lost both!!!!!!!! xD What if he didn't? Reynor had to struggle already and barely won.
I'm only diamond 3 but my experience in zvp is protoss either cheeses and gets very salty if it doesn't work or turtle skytoss and usually beat me
Jumping between plat 1 and diamond 3 and yesterday it was the first time saw a colossus ... weird unit ... i was lucky my blind corruptors are able to hit it
a 53-minute B-O-3?!
if I didn't have to go to work in 40 minutes, I'd love this!
well, I still do, lol
People who watch at 2x speed:
"I don't have such weaknesses"
@@tiredtraveler4536 😆
Put 2x speed, or 1.5x, and enjoy
F*ck yeah! That was an fun bo3 in a while. Entertaining commentary as always Lowko!
Lowko you should make a scale called the widow mine scale, which tells you a unit's tankinesss based on how many widow mine shots it can take, because if a widow mine can't one shot it, it must be pretty tanky
For me ZvP on the ladder is cannon rush or skytoss 80% of the time. I'm in Platinum btw.
Goblin threw by fighting over those spores for so long while letting his economy get ravaged. If he just recalled and built up his interceptor count while containing the zerg on 2 bases he coulda won.
That was a intense game thought Protoss had it in the bag with that massive air! Well done sir
Lowko the key thing to remember whenever your in a situation like in the last match here is as Zerg you have more buildings than the Protoss and a much easier to move armery, in other words, ignore the death ball, kill all the buildings and win
I am a platinum 1 zerg player in the European ladder,tbh with you,i was a campaign player.i was watching you for a loooong time,every single video, noting things and slowly learning by the greatest players you have been casting.then I decided it's time to give it a try,so i climbed all the way up to plat 1 with 80% winrate(dont wanna flex or anything) but i think thats really impressive for a "new" player like me.And for this particular match up,i have to say this:when the protoss player wasn't dead until the 12th minute mark,good bye my mmr,good bye my mental 😂 although recently I managed to take my very first win in a ZvP late game,and im really proud of myself!after all, those videos of dark and serral,and all the other guys from the tipity top of the world,helped me quite a bit,just as much as you.sorry for the big comment😂
Korean atheletes get military exemption if they win gold in major international events or any medal in the olympics..But not esports.. I'm still very upset about Stats getting drafted :(
Well 500+ APM has its uses in military. 💥🔥
even better would be to like, not have a draft
@@anarchosnowflakist786 Even better would be to like, not have North Korea as neighbourgh.
Well, serral was awarded by finnish government for his performance in esport.
@@iseektheholygrail2055 yeah but also golfs and donates a bunch for the local golf tournaments
Holy Crap! What a series!
I'm not a player, but I'm SO GLAD the cheese sit back and max out strat did not squeak out the victory. And yes it should not have been even close. It requires the Zerg to play PERFECTLY every step of the way or lose, while the Protoss has literally no risk and nothing to control or miss-play until the maxed engagement, where let's be honest you control one slow moving blob instead of multiple parts.
34:45 same as you, pretty much. I do a Lot of Brenda Pushes and ocasionally try Muta-Ling-Bane against the Mass Void Ray on Double Stargate. On late game... Ocasionally Hydra-Ultra-Infestor-Viper (Shroud and Spam Fungals and Para-Bombs, Hope that the Ultras smash the HighTemplars)
I'm 4.4 on BR server
Same here but my late game strategy vs toss is to gg :P
same experience here.
I would have loved to have seen Goblin make a forward (hidden?) outpost with shield batteries for the Phoenixes in game 1.
34:50 Diamond Zerg here. I die to two base all-ins because I drone too hard expecting people to play macro ever. Very tilting to lose to players who have never built more than 35 workers in their Starcraft career, but it's my fault for not scouting properly.
why would you expect people to play macro
@@missbelled6700 maybe it's a hope more than an expectation? macro games are more fun
wooah that was a tense finale!
That last match was AWSOME O.o :-D
Thx for sharing this epicness with us ^^
the phoenix seems like a death by paper cuts kind of strategy.
It's been 10 years and it's the first time i see a zerg save workers with burrow
Just got out of work and now i get to relax with my favorite caster
Holy crap! Reynor you monster! Nice game 3! That was intense!
Amazing game 1. I can't believe raynor held for so long. Great work by goblin
Wtf who is this guy? I haven't watched Lowko's channel in months and now there's this random dude taking over the casts???
Lowko just giving away the name of the upgrade instead of doing trivia at 12:30 is mildly upsetting and abnormal
im forgetting the name of this TH-camr, he normally reminded me every intro
Heeeeeellllllllllo everrroooooooone, my name is...... Damn. Forgot. :(
Nice--that's how you do it. Nice micro by Reynor to pull out that win.
I don't play StarCraft and its the only Esport I watch and when I say I watch it I mean Lowko is the only gateway to professional StarCraft I use.
Man. That 1st game. How many of us would of gg after that first wave of Pheonix attack. Still able to make it that long anf able to max out.
35:00 goofed target fire on the extractor lel
I too have a lot of spite built up towards all protoss players. I have never felt like professional protoss players were anywhere near as impressive as terran or zerg.
The last game felt like the opposite of that, Reynor shouldve built extra hatcheries with his 6k bank and as soon as he saw Goblin go for his main base he shouldve rebuilt his buildings on his leftmost base.
As a Terran on ladder Zerg is extremely frustrating because I can get them to one base, 8 larvae, and no tech buildings like in this game and they still somehow not die. And most Protoss just die to mass Viking before they get to max out
34:53 - Reynor attacks his own gas for not protecting the hatch.
Couple of days ago i got tilted after losing to 3base Skytoss vs 8 of my bases, i got tilted so badly that next game i picked toss, funny i got PvZ, i sit back on 3 bases, Maxed Carriers (with +3 air attack) and A-moved zerg eating pizza with another hand. Zerg tried everything, hydras infestors, mass queens, spores and corroptors at end. He had 3/4 of map, he even blocked me preventing to explain that was my experiment how broken Skytoss is vs Zerg. He just felt exaclty how i felt game before
Loving you man, and all your fans too. Party on!
INCREDIBLE series!
I got a question, for the last game where toss had just air. Y didn't Raynor leave his lings n ultras attacking the tosses base instead of sitting under his corruptors?
Lowksi ya gotta fight the toss early lately... Helps alot
This is the sickest game i've seen so far...man, i mean this is SICK)
In the last game Reynor could have denied goblin a little bit longer by getting burrow and using it with the zerglings. Goblin still had no observers when he wanted his 3rd base and would have been forced to get up cannons for detection of the burrowed lings. He did get observers later obviously, but that was very late, and is quite common for stargate protoss.
I feel like Reynor could have went harder in the protoss base with the zergling ultra force to just clean out all of the buildings. A base race would have hugely favored the zerg, as the protoss would have had to fight over the spores, while at the protoss main, there wasn't much static defense. 3/3 adrenal zerglings eat buildings like popcorn. Fighting the fully upgraded armada head on seems like a losing battle.
Idk about professional play, but I personally love vsing skytoss as terran. I wish I saw it as often as lowko complains about it. Everytime I vs them just run a hundred marines under them and win.
Ah, het is weer tijd om de vaat te doen :)
I love seeing pro's struggle against normal ladder strats! :D
@LowkoTV, if you struggle against that, just play like Reynor. ;)
Either way, still glad Reynor won, that was tense.
Lowko ma boi! Putting out bangers everyday
Edit* i hate zvp. Protoss only needs one battery one void and one immortal. Sit back chill and then a move. Its obnoxious. I have played over 10,000 ladder games since 2010. Toss is pretty easy to win with. Zerg became really hard with this last "balance" patch.
"If I were a betting man, which I am not" *cough* *cough* Rank Roulette *cough*
LowBlind confirmed.
Imagine those three voidrays not dying when they got rallied accross the map :o.
if he had those in main army he probably would have won, he needed more dps, his lack of money/ interceptors really hurt him
Tbh if goblin went back home and clinged on to hope like a true bronze league hero and built a nexus he could have won.
That's a no go since reynor have ground units and spire also has more economy than him
I think he threw the game so hard. After he won the huge fight, he could have easily just killed the hatchery in the upper left corner (he saw lings running from there all the time). If he does that, reynor has 1 base and cannot build the spire there. Which is automatically gg, coz reynor had nothing.
As a main Protoss I'm very upset how my fellow Protosses play mass-air-and-do-nothing. Glad Reynor won!
I think the Voidray got a bit too much buffed. If the cost were 225-150 and speed upgrade like -0.3 from where it is now, it could be the best spot. I don't expect that to happen ever though.
Reynor: I'm gonna base contain my opponent
Goblin: Okay, then I'm gonna supply contain you. * Kills all the overlord * Enjoy using all your larvae to remake overlords .
And without queen injections to boot
Can we get some F’s in the chat for the dog that died in the mineral line at 39:51?
F
It's to no surprise that critter killer lost that game. F
Thanks for thr video anyway lowko i always wait for these before starting my grind sessions.
It was so close!
I´m a happy man when I don´t forget my 2nd pylon and get supply blocked, let alone finish it before min 2 lol
_"You can see that, well, the world champ, right here, made a jugement call to go for the nydus network and it turns out : it wasn't the right call."_
11:48
I'd argue that it was the right call instead : having deployed the Nydus contributed for spreading the creep into the Protoss northern natural expansion. Since goblin went for pheonixes, he didn't spare ressources for making a robotic faiclity, then an observer to spot the creep tumors the queens delivered during the push and get rid of it to get access to his northern expansion until later.
If anything, the real criticisism that should've been directed against Reynor's play is that he should've taken that opportunity to expand the creep further north with the tumors already present to give himself more map vision. But considering how he's been harassed by goblin and having his overlords being sniped by the dozens (litteraly), it's perfectly understandable that his mind wasn't on the creep (and i am perfectly aware that it's very easy for me to criticise when i wouldn't be able to deliver a hundredth of his skill. Nevertheless, i maintain that the Nydus was a good call ; it just lack some following with the tumors.)
Someone tag @Day9 ! This is some Brood War PvZ level shenanigans haha
Absolutely fantastic 3rd game. Holy cow.
TFW your race's best AA is the same building every other race gets
Except it can move :P
Just as an avid viewer of SC2. I think the obvious strengths of the Protoss army are countered by other weaknesses. How many times do we see a Protoss player do extreme economic damage to a Zerg or Tarren and still lose because of the robustness or ability to recover, of those races economies?
I love SC2 because each race can be argued to be wildly overpowered, if their abilities are examined in a vacuum, and that what makes it a great contest. No race is objectively the weakest or strongest.
I watch my masters Zerg friend a lot which isn’t incredibly high rank but it’s not bad but he plays a lot of investor viper with hyper aggressive early game kinda like raynor and he’s managed to climb a lot with it with either corruptors, queens or hydras on the side
just got back into sc2 after many years away
It seems to me there will always be 1 race that just sits back and turtles, right now thats toss cause carriers. and before the nerfs it kinda felt like zerg did that :/
seems to be the nature of the beast imo - cause all 3 are so good at defending xD seems to make turtle veryyy easy to do.
Indeed. It was: gotta pressure the zerg like crazy to force them to build stuff they don't want to and prevent them from getting too many expansions. (This strategy can still work depending on what the zerg is doing... Though perhaps this statement is true for every strategy xD). And now we see the same result against a protoss: heavy aggression and trying to make acquiring bases painful. Though it's difficult because protoss really have good defender's advantage.
@@WindsorMason All very true :)
Protoss has great defense, but i think so does zerg and Terran. Terran is slow to maneuver, zerg can move their static defense and queens with transfuse are just insane
Goblin should have just gone around killing bases and tech structures after he took the natural and the fourth. He probably thought Reynor was going to collapse on him with reinforcements but that slight hesitation where he didn't know what to do after he broke Reynor is what lost him the game
I think it’s a bit of a balance problem voidrays are good against so many units/ structures that are supposed to counter them.
Lowko, what race do you suggest me to play because I am new and I don't really know which race is the best. What do you think I should play?
Last game is nice example how broken is late protos vs zerg
no, is not .... Toss had 160 army supply vs Reynor's 110 army supply...Not to mention that about 20 to 30 of the zerg supply consisted of zergling and untra's which both don't shoot up... OFC Goblin would have won the first battles... If you don't realize this, than let me explain in other terms... 160 - 110 = 50... 50 supply means 25% of the entire supply available to make units in 1v1 SC2 games or, better still, 50 is almost half of 110 which means that Raynor's army was with almost 50% (45% if we do the math) smaller than Goblin's...
So, pretty much Goblin had 25% supply worth of army more than Reynor, and you Zergs complain you can't kill that... We can also argue about which army is more expensive to make... but before you say anything just take into account that once carrier cost 410 minerals and 250 gas to be fully operational (i.e. with 8 interceptors) so my money is that Goblin's army was probably twice more expensive that Raynor's at the start of the battle...
I wonder if you guys play the same game with the rest of us, or you just like to complain to much....
What a series!
I dont understand why Zerg Pros hate to rebuild buildings before they die.
You see a huge Protoss Army move towards your main base - you have like 20 secs time until it is killed, why not just build a backup spire just in case? Would have definetly saved Raynors ass that game
He had two
@@LowkoTV
At 43:12 his first spire dies without him rebuilding it or a lair beforehand
At 44:40 he finally notices and starts rebuilding a lair with 4k and 4k in the bank, if that was all in Corrupters he would have probably been able to kill goblins army.
at 46:50 his new spire finally finishes - imagine if he had that 3 mins earlier
And yeah, he had 2 spires, but they were right next to eachother (main and natural) - why not just rebuild one on the other side of the map, just so you can be sure you will be able to spend your resources
Helloooouuuw my name is Peteeeerrr ... and we're missing the most epic intro of the century.... yet again! :(
if goblin didnt misrally like 4 voidrays into spores and instead used them in his army or to defend his probes he might've actually won turteling
He also could have killed the last fully mining base and last spawning pool + spire a lot earlier at no cost instead of wasting time and interceptors on spore crawlers at a practically mined out base.
@@arne8158 also true. But maybe he didnt know another spire / pool was building and even where it was. Which you would expect for someone of his level but idk.
I mean Zerg gets twice the army size to be sloppy about so I think that balances it out y'know. Like after he'd defeated his first army and then he queue'd up 17 Corruptors doesn't feel good on the other end.
Lowko, I also believe that late game Zerg isn't as good as other races late game. I do feel like you need a higher skill ceiling than the opponent in order to have a chance late game. But then again I'm not especially good and don't have the skill to employ many strategies.
Seeing Goblin lose that last Game hurts my soul. Reynor denied Goblins 3rd 5 times, then left him to eco up on 4 Base for free while idling, failed to adapt in time against Skytoss relying on about 20 Queens (Ground getting outmanovered by Air big surprise), losing his entire Techtree and then still winning because 18 2/1 Corruptors can still beat 60 Supply of 3/2/2 Skytoss.
Interfestor - an infestor using neural parasite on a raven to use interference matrix.
I actually think that if goblin cancelled his pylons after seeing Reynor pull all drones it might have put him in a good spot. In the first place, seeing a full worker pull for that long is pretty worth it.
You wanted to know my feelings about ZvP? They're the same as your feelings about ZvP.
play as protoss and see how it feels from the other side... you need reach GM with Toss and if you do that you can actually say if Air Toss is "imba or if you suck"(Some Harstem for you here) :)...
The main response of the zerg are Queens, Infestors and Vypers all casters with pretty long-range cast abilities... Honestly Queens are one of the best units in game (shared position with the marine) due to their incredible versatility... Pretty much queens are good in any stage of the game.... Of course you need separate control group for the casters and at least 1 or 2 control groups for DPS units...So you will get up to 5 control groups...
The toss needs also separate control group for each type of unit mostly because carriers, void-rays and Tempests have different attack ranges and you need to keep those unit as far back as possible or they will get abducted or mind-controlled if you miss click...Void-rays are a pain to control since they are generally targeted by hydras and parasitic bomb and one mistake and you lose all of them and then the corruptors will have field-day against carriers... More over the Air units are vulnerable without support units. Best here are Templars for Psy-storm and feedback but you also need oracles for the revelation ability... However templars are vulnerable to lings so they need a lot of baby-sitting or they will just be useless gas balloons so they might need one VoidPrism to keep them alive... This means that as a toss you need 2 (maybe 3) control groups for attacking unit, 1 control for Templars, 1 for Oracle and if,you reach that far on your Keyboard, one for Prism... Why a control for Prims? because you might want to deploy it to bring some reinforcements which probably need to be added to the control group with Void-rays... Alternatively you may want a control group from MotherShip for the same reasons as above...
Carriers are incredibly expensive units: 350 + (4 x 15) = 410 minerals just to have it operational... Interceptors die quite easy so during prolonged fights you might lose 10 - 20 interceptors per carrier and that will cost add about 150 - 300 minerals per carrier more.... Mother ships is a 'joke' of a unit (IMHO), because you can only build one and is big and slow and its abilities (except for clock) are not that impressive... Timewarp is fine but you cast it on an area and if you don't pick you battle properly that ability will have little to no effect in battle, compare that to Fungal Growth, and I would say fungal grouth is a bit better because: you can have several infestors casting it an you can cover the entire enemy with it, and more important, it denies some ability like blink and loading into Prism and also it reveals clocked units... So, pretty much 2 infestors can out-trade a mothership... I can honestly say that BroodWar Arbiter was a far better unit....
Because all these reason running out of bank is something that is much more likely to happen if you are protoss... and if you alse factor in the re-max ability: carriers, tempests and mother ship take a lot more time to be built than Corruptors/Hydra and Infestors. In the end, the only real chance that the protoss has it to either win a battle so much one-sided that the zerg won't be able to re-max in time... or to, somehow destroy zerg's infrastructure which is what Goblin tried... But, in all honestly the moment Reynor took out Goblin's long-distance mining probes, I knew he'd lost the game... Because, well, carriers without interceptors are useless...
Conclusion: I honestly don't think that you need to be twice as good as a protoss player to beat him/her, you just need to be better and that will do the trick...
Still confused why it's called Skytos when Floatos is /right there/
i Call if airtoss, it fits for every unit
@@st4ndby *woosh
@@xitaris5981 no, I got the joke… my comment was a joke as well… nobody calls ist airtoss
Even though not perfect composition in game 3, I can’t bring myself not to like Goblins decision. This is what the Golden Armada is. Just devastating.
that was the craziest all-in I have seen in a while... since he and not bases, no probes not ability to remax...
Pros really need to start to research burrow in those situations. Would have shut down the entire phoenix shenigans, and you could just hide ovies in a 8+ spore trap.
imagine what its like in plat/diamond if they get that army nothing i do wins :( haha
yeah and its not very easy to prevent them from getting that army either... if you want to harass enough in early/midgame there are 3 batteries and of course.....protoss units
One day there will be E Sports in the Olympics
as a zerg main that offrace protoss
i agree that it is much harder on the zerg than the protoss. for example I am M3 zerg after 2500 games and i got to D1 protoss after 200.
BUT I really feel like Reynor didn't prepare correctly for the late game (not that i can to any better).
when the protoss crossed the map he barely had any corruptor and had 20+ queens and had a large bank.
Can u do the most recent series of reynor vs maru it's really good
34:58
Brenda taking all her anger on the extractor : .
Why don’t more people focus on overlord hunting in these situations? Is supply-blocking your opponent not an efficient strategy compared to focusing on army units? Seems like it would cause all sorts of havoc
Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but I would like to see some offensive batteries with these builds.
If youre talking about proxy voidray then I think that Zerg can just produce lings faster than 1 or 2 voids can kill them early on. It might work if the Zerg literally doesnt scout and doesnt make enough queens but besides that, I dont think you can proxy battery voidray
Since whe double gas opener is standard?
I tryed to Cannon-Rush, but he played like Reynor.
The biggest tilt a sc pro can show... typing g instead of gg
Personally, I struggle so hard against skytoss as a terran. Mind you, I almost exclusively play as Terran with a Zerg friend in 2v2 in diamond. We've been playing for years and the main problem is when we fight against T+P. They always put tanks, thors and marines under a skytoss army whilst turtling. It just unbeatable in my opinion. We literally proxy every single game vs T+P to get it over with in 4 mins, win or lose.
Terran has the best counters against Skytoss. Marine/Medivac with Ghost or Mine support destroys it, but of course you can't attack into tanks with that comp. If they are turtling you can just max out on a mech deathball (mass Thor+Tank) which murders Skytoss.
I feel like that 3rd game Reynor could have harassed the main with those ultras and kings more at the end.
Different ranks have different problems with skill differentials.
I am diamond random (Tho my fave is terran) And I see most zergs do little to no micro at all, just f2 + a and swipe floor with everyone.
If you ask me Terran is the most micro intensive (Particularly when you account splits). With zerg being second and toss being last.
Don't think there is such a thing as the most micro intensive race, it depends on the unit comp. Adept/Phoenix is insanely micro intensive, as is Blink/Disruptor. Bio is very micro intensive.... Mech not so much.
@@glowyboi7175 Most certainly compositions vary in micro considerably, but I was speaking overall/generally, taking all their comps in to consideration.
U basically explained it. Expand while they expand and cannon up and then the death ball just kills u.
14:45 looks like you forgot about the link
Thanks for the reminder! Added.