I really love those wacky tries at innovation. It's always a treat when Ian spends 15 minutes detailing how it operates, what the requirements were and all, but you KNOW at the end he's gonna say "It sucked and they moved on"
Though it seems for this one, it's more a gradual, slow build up to that conclusion as Ian goes through the rifle's features to let you come to the epiphany that this thing was one big, green, plastic boondoggle, like with the AN-94. Personally, I got to that point the moment he explained that the soldier who was expected to use this thing wouldn't be allowed to take off that three-barreled engine block strapped to the front of his rifle.
@@yetanother9127 Plenty of the videos get to that conclusion with "but fascist governments make silly requests, so nothing came of it until sensible people found it after the war"
I would love to see some forgotten ammo episodes. Would be nice to see some of those flechettes and duplex rounds showed alongside their respective guns.
"Turns out training everybody to be competition marksmen is a waste of time. We should instead focus on multiple projectile ammo." "But then how would we teach them to be competition marksmen?! D: " It's a wonder the military procurement system accomplishes anything.
most military procurement was corruption fest at every corners of the earth and generals usually fighting yesterday war until too many grunts died, us military is obviously the main star of this show but miraciously able to work around or make improvement their toolish tools since ww2.
@@oldesertguy9616 except if you look at combat videos, 90% of the time it just looks like their shooting in the general direction of the enemy. Though I've never been in combat, so i don't know for sure. If any here had been in combat, how often do you shoot at a specific target versus in the general area?
I love SPIW. It's goal is so practical and sensible yet the means to achieve it were so... not that way. And the acronym is incredibly apt, given that the concept revolved around the idea of _spewing_ projectiles at the enemy.
@Matheus Falango Not exactly the same, the ACR prototype rifles worked markedly better than the SPIW prototypes. The program still failed to meet expectations, but you could see that technology was improving how close they were getting to actually accomplishing the original goals of SALVO.
@Matheus Falango It wasn't a complete disappointment though, the ACR program did show that low magnification optics provided a substantial improvement in hit percentage. Which lead to the M1913 Picatinny rail and the large scale deployment of tactical optics instead of iron sights.
In 1987 I wrote a defence economics paper on the SPIW program, working from an archived copy of the project reports to determine what worked and what didn't. All it had for imagery was often-photocopied photos of the actual rifles submitted by the trial companies. So cool to finally see one in real life!
@@HellYeahCorp It was sincere. They have amazing stuff, but not a lot of presentation on it for those that go. So to have someone like Ian give a gun-by-gun tour of some items that NEVER left government control (and never will), is a pretty perfect combination.
@@RockIslandAuctionCompany That's not at all what I was commenting on. Just the fact that (shortened) Rock Island responded to a video about (a different) Rock Island. I too think it's great that Ian is showcasing "hidden" weapons like this.
LOL as a retired Weapons Instructor and Maintainer this weapon makes me really appreciate the M16-M4-M203 system. Those wing nuts on the bipod I hope they would be gone IF it ever went to into production. Armorer Only thats funny, believe me the solider would find a way to take that thing off.
I'm guessing it's a placeholder. No point in developing a proper one until the design is finalised, better to spend that time desperately changing whatever deficiencies show up before the trials conclude.
@Joshua Bressel the M203 is a great add-on, no need of improvement. I fired one on an MP5 Carbine, 20-30 HE Frag , was tons of fun and accurate. I don't get this new M320, seems they are reinventing the wheel (M79) and the M203 is accurate enough, besides being always there and not demanding a person only having a grenade launcher in their hands(losing a rifleman)
There was a project in the '90s to design guided shells for aircraft cannons called BLAM (Barrel Launched Adaptive Munition). I'm pretty sure they started with the acronym, and worked backwards.
Just when Ian thinks he can escape his mortal enemy the BAR bipod it strikes in the most unexpected of places. You might want to check outside your window before going to sleep...
From the mid-seventies through to 2010, I collected "Project Salvo" and "SPIW" cartridges and projectiles. This video is a real treat. I sold off the last of the collection early last year but kept a copy of Blake's SPIW book. A great reference tome.
@@vidard9863 Yes, 7.62x51 duplex cartridges (designated M198, I believe) saw service in Vietnam. I've read an anecdote from a Huey gunner indicating that they were used in M60s. Placing coins in the M60's buffer tube was apparently a fairly common practice, and I believe the combination had an effective rate of fire (projectiles per minute versus cartridges per minute) approaching that of an M134 on its low rate.
"Get my grubby hands on this.." Haha its white cotton gloves material. I love these obscure one off prototypes. You just can't see them anywhere else and it teaches you a lot of history, not only firearms technology but also about the military politics of the times. Thanks Ian keep it up !
I see this in everyday life. A $100K sports car revving its engine to go 25mph between stoplights. A pick-up truck with dualies and chrome push-bars used to pick up groceries.
You know, my favorite thing about Ian is that I’ve been watching his videos for years and I can’t remember him saying anything bad about another content creator, I have no idea who he votes for, and I have no clue as to his personal life outside of the fact that he really enjoys making videos about firearms history. Thanks for just sticking to your topic. It sounds like a stupid thing to like, but too many TH-camrs get so off topic that I just can’t stand it.
My grandfather was in the army right before vietnam as a mechanic and rifle instructor, and actually got to test prototype weapons. I remember him raving about a "22-06" (i believe but i may be wrong on the name) which was a 3006 with 2 bullets. He found it to be one of the more accurate and better prototypes, and wished the army adopted it.
Ian did a video a while back on a M1 Garand chambered for the .22-'06 during Project SALVO. It had been in a civilian collection and was being auctioned at RIA.
I like that sticker on the eletrical switch behind Gun Jesus that says "DON'T SHUT OFF", while it is shut off. Guess that background noise are the ghosts escaping the containment unit.
Really minor correction - the .30-06 necked down to .224" was a 68gr homologue of M1 ball. The 41gr was a necking down of .30 carbine - the average of the two does bear a suspicious resemblance to M193. :)
Pvt Snuffy would have got that grenade launcher off in less than 10 min. If you want to break something or have it disassembled give it to an infantry soldier and tell them they are NOT allowed to take it apart.
Big chunk of metal? Check In the front of the gun, making it pain in the butt to carry? Check. Forced to carry it everywhere? Check. Private Snuffy will have the grenade launcher as his paper*weight in few minutes after being assigned to man the gun. *porn images, naturally
The fact the US Armament Department is more concerned with having things their way and winning meaningless competition over developing effective weapons, or even keeping existing designs unchanged and functional, is absolutely insane to me
i would have loved to see this fireing. i mean, the whole gun is crazy (as always) as a concept, but the actual happening of a huge bunch of flechettes travelling above the speed of sound with that pulling part thing would be an intersting thing to witness
As a side note, as time went on the grenade launcher was reduced to 30mm. Same High/Low design. Had a few of the dummy cartridges and one cut-away, very slick.
That was more during the 1970s as part of the follow-on Future Rifle System/Future Rifle Program. I think George Reynolds is still alive. He worked on the 30mm single-shot and multi-shot grenades while working for the US Army, and afterwards, he continued his work on a stand-alone 30mm semi-auto launcher at Knox Engineering.
I remember using flechete rounds in M203 and M79 40mm grenades in Oz in the 1980's. Lots of tiny holes in the targets. Working the butts was scary they ricocheted all over the place.
The armory is a cool place to visit. Used to go up to the Quad Cities to ride my bicycle along the waterfront trails and would crossover the Mississippi on Armory Island.
It honestly looks like whoever designed this forgot about it until the night before it was due and put together something that looked like a future concept/kids toy/ bad prop gun out of what they found in their garage. I hope they got an F for effort
Aberdeen Proving Ground said as much in one of their reports - something to the effect that Winchester did not understand the specifications nor the program's importance.
Very cool Ian. Thank you for spewing all thay history, to explain this amazing military rifle. This channel and a few others keep youtube going. Thanks for the video. I wonder if you can find ammo, i would love to see this thing shoot. That launcher looks amazing and the rifle looks so barrel heavy.
The history of the contracts is SO NECESSARY. Thanks for always doing an excellent complete job. I binge and then rest from your channel and every time I'm in one of my periods binging I'm just so glad that you're doing this... There is no way at all that I could ever hope in my life to have all the conversations go all of the places and read the thousands of books necessary to figure out all the cool little stuff you show us with all of the details of the how, The who and the why.
Who gives thumbs down on these videos? I mean really. It's exactly what you'd want. An in depth history and tear down of guns that you may have forgotten. The camera work is good. The clarity, the editing. If I could like it 10 times I would
When the Elbonian Army sends their entire paratroop force, consisting of five soldiers and two cats aboard their single 1947-era Antonov AN-2, to invade the US mainland. Due to an unfortunate error in navigation they bail out directly over Camp Perry during the annual All-Army Marksmanship Competition.
TBH the grenade launcher was the most interesting an impressive part. The whole feed mechanism and self loading feature just seems so crazy. Too bad this gun didn't have field testing, I'd be curious to see how the grenade launcher worked in combat.
Seems like it might have worked better had they scaled down to 25-30mm grenades and made it sort of an upside-down tube fed mechanism with the bottom of the handguard.
No disassembly? Dang. You would've thought that Rock Island would have also gotten and stashed away or written down some documentation about that when they got the rifle. Ah well, hopefully when you get to AAI's ACR you'd be able to pull it apart.
Lol, love the fact Ian looks like he is in an electrical closet. Also I wonder how M14 fan boys will like to see what looks like a ghetto-fied green M14 thing with a another....thing under the barrel
I don't have a crazy love for guns. I've never fired one but I enjoy the mechanics, have read warfare related stories since I was a young boy, and I play lots of violent video games. I am not interested in most gun channels because they are often run by Americans who put a lot of emphasis on how awesome guns are and how cool it is to own them. I adore that you focus on the mechanical, historical, and practical aspects of firearms which is the stuff I am interested in. Its hard to think of killing people as cool but obviously the inventions are and all the little mechanical differences and the reasons behind them/generation of the ideas behind them is super cool. Thanks for keeping it classy.
I live just across the river from the island, in Iowa. That place is really neat, so much history is there and passes thru. My friend's dad helped fund and found R.I. auction company
Morning folks. This was a nice commute audio. I was a pmc for 7 years, can count on one hand the number of times we were in contact with an enemy beyond 200 yards. Granted I was mostly urban or similar, but that report isnt *all* wrong. Lol
Kidding aside, we treated everyone who wasnt in our team as hostile, for better or worse. It wasnt nice, but everyone caught on quickly language barrier or no. Non bad guys cleared out immediately when we showed up so generally speaking only bad guys remained. That wasnt a fool proof system and ugly things did happen. Never said I was happy about it, but thats how it was. Dont buy diamonds. Lol
I saw the SPIW at the former Ordnance Museum that used to be in Aberdeen Md. You fail to mention as to how the fiberglass splinters from the fletchette sabots could blind the shooter (as was mentioned in the museum display), but still an ultimately cool piece of history, even if you wouldn't want to shoot it without a ballistic face shield! I tend to doubt that even the Old Western Scrounger could find SPIW rounds though!
Awesome videos! Thank you for all of them and for the information. I love watching your videos and learning about all of the strange weapons you get to check out and experience.
Excellent! I've been there, and wondered if you ever had been. There's so much I enjoyed there - best I'd been at since the old Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen. (Also: "DON'T SHUT OFF" on the turned off switch box on the background is amusing.) Also, 'Glass-Nylon hybrid' would imply glass-reinforced/filled nylon which isn't all that unusual but probably required a lot of tweaking.
I don't watch for regular gun stroking (which there is next to none here) I watch for the weird guns, the odd stories, crazy ideas, which is what Ian enjoys too. Especially these weird never to be seen prototypes
Rule #1 of a combat rifle: a Idiot should be able to figure out how to disassemble and reassemble it. This rifle fails in that aspect. Edit: Gun Jesus is NOT an idiot.
The Browning Museum has an extensive collection of prototype weapons not found anywhere else. They used to have a team of stuffed horses pulling a cassion and artillery piece, but horses became so tattered they pulled out of the exhibit. They also used to have a Kiowa scout copter with a mini gun on it, but that too was removed. Budget cutbacks have limited their hours of operation and made it difficult to get there despite the fact that I work on the Rock Island Arsenal about a mile away. Still the museum is a fantastic place to visit with tons of history. The RIA isn't easy to get into these day and require a visitors pass to be issued by access control at the Moline gate. That takes 20-30 minutes, so ask for a 12 month pass.
Davvero molto interessante questo strano progetto del 1960 , e lo apprendo grazie a "Forgotten Weapon " ormai un punto di riferimento sulle armi storiche e sconosciute oltre ad ogni nuovita 👍
Keen! A real science fiction needler! I was part of the navy side of project SPEW in 1975. Beers were a dime in the beer machines and 15 cents at the EM club. Those were the days!
Awesome video! i was hopeing you would get to a SPIW rifle at some point, shame you guys couldent figure how to take it apart, funny how something that was competing to be a service rifle at some point is now so lost to history we no longer know how to take it apart, i wonder if its covered in the trials reports?
With all of these mega weird and interesting ideas floating around in the US military's head about wanting to attach all this stuff onto rifles, it makes me wonder why they never considered, or if they did why it didn't go anywhere either, making these flechette/grenade launchers into separate, hand-holdable weapons. It seems that they put all the work into developing cartridges but failed to make a delivery system for them that would actually work. At least to me, it seems like they could have easily taken the undermounted launcher from this rifle (or other such designs), developed it more to stick a stock and some sights on it and have a working launcher. Maybe it wasn't worth it to them to make certain soldiers carry around an additional, heavy weapon? But at the same time it must have been pretty obvious to them that the "all-in-one" designs were exceptionally unwieldy anyway and would cause troops to get bogged down with them.
There was a working launcher available at the moment this launcher was developed, it was called M79. Multi-shot launcher for the same 40mm grenades existed too, it is now called a "China Lake prototype". Flechette launcher is the rifle itself. The order was to design a rifle that fires one flechette from every cartridge.
The most effective piece of military equipment responsible for Soldiers actually killing the enemy instead of shooting at them, is the man shaped silhouette target. Human beings have a natural aversion to killing other human beings, unless you specifically train it away from them. Archers en mass rarely direct fired at the enemy, and people with swords are normally actively defending their own life while fighting. A man with a rifle looking at another man 300m away is a different story.
psychoaiko666 at least one arms manual of the time suggests that if you only have a sword against another knight you should grab your sword by the blade and beat them with the hilt.
A: Grossman's book is trash that's based on flawed and outright wrong research. B: Archers absolutely engaged in direct fire. They basically had two modes - area and point. Point targets for an English longbow were actually as far out as 200-300 yards. It also helps that their main targets were either lightly armored peasants or the only slightly better armored warhorses of rich guys as arrows were pretty ineffective against any decent armor.
I really love those wacky tries at innovation. It's always a treat when Ian spends 15 minutes detailing how it operates, what the requirements were and all, but you KNOW at the end he's gonna say "It sucked and they moved on"
Though it seems for this one, it's more a gradual, slow build up to that conclusion as Ian goes through the rifle's features to let you come to the epiphany that this thing was one big, green, plastic boondoggle, like with the AN-94. Personally, I got to that point the moment he explained that the soldier who was expected to use this thing wouldn't be allowed to take off that three-barreled engine block strapped to the front of his rifle.
"It sucked and they moved on" is generally how regular weapons become Forgotten Weapons, one supposes.
Yeah those are best the forgottenweapons-vids for me, its like company is asked to build something but nobody told them whats it for.
@@yetanother9127 Plenty of the videos get to that conclusion with "but fascist governments make silly requests, so nothing came of it until sensible people found it after the war"
@@yetanother9127 Yeah but this never became a regular weapon, like so many Forgotten Weapons
the ambient sound in that armory is suited for any horror game
The sounds of a power transformer in a utility closet. I love it though.
All very Half Life esque, gun included
This guy realize that some people own guns don't understand reciprocating
Glad I wasn’t the only one who picked up on it.
@@junioraltamontent.7582 I was just thinking that.
The rear sight is almost like "oh crap, I forgot to do that!" Runs over to the M70 line and grabs a rear sight assembly
It bothers me that the large switch behind Ian’s head says “don’t shut off” and the switch is in the off position. Yes I’m an electrician
thanks.....i did not notice until NOW....
What's the point in having a switch if you're not supposed to shit it off?
Great ... now I am bothered.
Lol
electrical engineer, different job description, same worry
White gloves on u know Ian's serious
When is Gun Jesus not serious? Seriously love this channel it's Christmas everyday.
He has stated that some "owners" prefer that he doesn't use white gloves because it makes his hands slippery and more likely to drop things.
I think he’s stated before that he prefers not wearing them but some collections and museums require it
Or you know he's handling a museum piece :) The museum would be crazy to allow someone to touch something as rare as this with bare hands lol.
WB Jesus?
I would love to see some forgotten ammo episodes. Would be nice to see some of those flechettes and duplex rounds showed alongside their respective guns.
"Turns out training everybody to be competition marksmen is a waste of time. We should instead focus on multiple projectile ammo."
"But then how would we teach them to be competition marksmen?! D: "
It's a wonder the military procurement system accomplishes anything.
Did you just described the Shotgun?
I would have to disagree on that. Marksmanship is still a desirable trait. Spray and pray just wastes ammo without much effect.
@@oldesertguy9616 Conserving ammo doesn't need to be taught really. It is just forcing people to break the habit of wasting ammo
most military procurement was corruption fest at every corners of the earth and generals usually fighting yesterday war until too many grunts died, us military is obviously the main star of this show but miraciously able to work around or make improvement their toolish tools since ww2.
@@oldesertguy9616 except if you look at combat videos, 90% of the time it just looks like their shooting in the general direction of the enemy. Though I've never been in combat, so i don't know for sure. If any here had been in combat, how often do you shoot at a specific target versus in the general area?
I love SPIW. It's goal is so practical and sensible yet the means to achieve it were so... not that way.
And the acronym is incredibly apt, given that the concept revolved around the idea of _spewing_ projectiles at the enemy.
In UK slang, 'spew' means to vomit...
@Matheus Falango Not exactly the same, the ACR prototype rifles worked markedly better than the SPIW prototypes. The program still failed to meet expectations, but you could see that technology was improving how close they were getting to actually accomplishing the original goals of SALVO.
@Matheus Falango It wasn't a complete disappointment though, the ACR program did show that low magnification optics provided a substantial improvement in hit percentage. Which lead to the M1913 Picatinny rail and the large scale deployment of tactical optics instead of iron sights.
@Joshua Bressel Spoken as a true 'Murican.
More dakka!
I see the "DON'T SHUT OFF" label was super effective.
It's the containment chamber from Ghostbusters...
What gets me is that they took the time to label it and not label what it does
betting it was for equipment that would have been loud on camera.
I was hoping someone else would notice this 😂
In 1987 I wrote a defence economics paper on the SPIW program, working from an archived copy of the project reports to determine what worked and what didn't. All it had for imagery was often-photocopied photos of the actual rifles submitted by the trial companies. So cool to finally see one in real life!
Neat. Would love to see more of the stuff in their collection.
This comment was an odd sensation.
I mean, someone from RIAC *winkwinknudgenudge* might be able to facilitate such a thing...🤔🤔
@@HellYeahCorp It was sincere. They have amazing stuff, but not a lot of presentation on it for those that go. So to have someone like Ian give a gun-by-gun tour of some items that NEVER left government control (and never will), is a pretty perfect combination.
@@RockIslandAuctionCompany That's not at all what I was commenting on. Just the fact that (shortened) Rock Island responded to a video about (a different) Rock Island. I too think it's great that Ian is showcasing "hidden" weapons like this.
Would love to see more of your stuff. In my house. But I'm poor.
LOL as a retired Weapons Instructor and Maintainer this weapon makes me really appreciate the M16-M4-M203 system.
Those wing nuts on the bipod I hope they would be gone IF it ever went to into production.
Armorer Only thats funny, believe me the solider would find a way to take that thing off.
I'm guessing it's a placeholder. No point in developing a proper one until the design is finalised, better to spend that time desperately changing whatever deficiencies show up before the trials conclude.
Souns like a challenge! *starts bashing rifle against deuce and a half bumper*
@Joshua Bressel the M203 is a great add-on, no need of improvement. I fired one on an MP5 Carbine, 20-30 HE Frag , was tons of fun and accurate. I don't get this new M320, seems they are reinventing the wheel (M79) and the M203 is accurate enough, besides being always there and not demanding a person only having a grenade launcher in their hands(losing a rifleman)
Give a G.I. two steel ball bearings and walk away. Come back ten minutes later, one will be lost and the other broken.
And would
Project SPIW? They missed a golden chance of calling It the project SPEW PEW.
Personal Emergency Weapon. PEW
Standard PEW weapon for space combat.
There was a project in the '90s to design guided shells for aircraft cannons called BLAM (Barrel Launched Adaptive Munition). I'm pretty sure they started with the acronym, and worked backwards.
It was pronounced spew
Just when Ian thinks he can escape his mortal enemy the BAR bipod it strikes in the most unexpected of places. You might want to check outside your window before going to sleep...
With all those requirements for the weapon, it's almost as if they wanted it to fail.
They were still pissed about the M14 being a giant pile of steaming shit.
@@orion8981
Did you mean m16?
@@SPastaL No he meant M14, the problems with the M16 were caused by active sabotage from the Ordnance Department who wanted to use the m14 instead.
@@arieheath7773
I'd just never heard an m14 being seen as bad so it confused/surprised me
@@SPastaL m14 is good as a gun, just not as good as a weapon
From the mid-seventies through to 2010, I collected "Project Salvo" and "SPIW" cartridges and projectiles. This video is a real treat. I sold off the last of the collection early last year but kept a copy of Blake's SPIW book. A great reference tome.
did you ever get a chance to fire one out of something?
Howdy, never did. John @@alexdemoya2119
@@johndrake5014 did any of the duplex cartridges make it to market?
@@vidard9863 Yes, 7.62x51 duplex cartridges (designated M198, I believe) saw service in Vietnam. I've read an anecdote from a Huey gunner indicating that they were used in M60s. Placing coins in the M60's buffer tube was apparently a fairly common practice, and I believe the combination had an effective rate of fire (projectiles per minute versus cartridges per minute) approaching that of an M134 on its low rate.
"Get my grubby hands on this.." Haha its white cotton gloves material. I love these obscure one off prototypes. You just can't see them anywhere else and it teaches you a lot of history, not only firearms technology but also about the military politics of the times.
Thanks Ian keep it up !
"Entirely cool, completely impractical."
I think I'll start using this in everyday life.
Was this weapon designed by a hipster ? Great idea on paper, innovative concepts, very impractical, and basically forgot in a few years.
I see this in everyday life. A $100K sports car revving its engine to go 25mph between stoplights. A pick-up truck with dualies and chrome push-bars used to pick up groceries.
A solid 7 minutes of background/exposition and I am still glued. Good work Ian 👍
You know, my favorite thing about Ian is that I’ve been watching his videos for years and I can’t remember him saying anything bad about another content creator, I have no idea who he votes for, and I have no clue as to his personal life outside of the fact that he really enjoys making videos about firearms history. Thanks for just sticking to your topic. It sounds like a stupid thing to like, but too many TH-camrs get so off topic that I just can’t stand it.
My grandfather was in the army right before vietnam as a mechanic and rifle instructor, and actually got to test prototype weapons. I remember him raving about a "22-06" (i believe but i may be wrong on the name) which was a 3006 with 2 bullets. He found it to be one of the more accurate and better prototypes, and wished the army adopted it.
Ian did a video a while back on a M1 Garand chambered for the .22-'06 during Project SALVO. It had been in a civilian collection and was being auctioned at RIA.
I like that sticker on the eletrical switch behind Gun Jesus that says "DON'T SHUT OFF", while it is shut off. Guess that background noise are the ghosts escaping the containment unit.
The arsenal museum is probably one of the greatest firearm collection I’ve ever seen. I check it out about once a year! Very cool video Ian.
Really minor correction - the .30-06 necked down to .224" was a 68gr homologue of M1 ball. The 41gr was a necking down of .30 carbine - the average of the two does bear a suspicious resemblance to M193. :)
No faith in Pvt Snuffy's preferences. How unfair! ;)
Pvt Snuffy would have got that grenade launcher off in less than 10 min.
If you want to break something or have it disassembled give it to an infantry soldier and tell them they are NOT allowed to take it apart.
If it breaks in Joes hands before combat then you do not need it in combat.
Don’t give it to the Soviets
They’ll try to eat it
Big chunk of metal? Check
In the front of the gun, making it pain in the butt to carry? Check.
Forced to carry it everywhere? Check.
Private Snuffy will have the grenade launcher as his paper*weight in few minutes after being assigned to man the gun.
*porn images, naturally
Well, Pvt Snuffy is related to Pvt Snafu, so . . .
The fact the US Armament Department is more concerned with having things their way and winning meaningless competition over developing effective weapons, or even keeping existing designs unchanged and functional, is absolutely insane to me
Years of tradition, unhampered by progress.
by the same token, the number crunchers wanted their rifle a specific way, end user be damned - and it turned out like this.
Look at the Congressional requirements for the M-16. You'll see crazy: a rifle designed to wound not kill.
@@GorillaRepYou realize that it takes more staff, time, and resources to deal with a wounded person than to bury someone?
@@kennethtaylor964 you realize that wounded people can still shoot you? did you serve?
i would have loved to see this fireing. i mean, the whole gun is crazy (as always) as a concept, but the actual happening of a huge bunch of flechettes travelling above the speed of sound with that pulling part thing would be an intersting thing to witness
Awesome museum. They also have a open air museum with vehicles and rockets. I'm a local and love going down there.
As a side note, as time went on the grenade launcher was reduced to 30mm. Same High/Low design. Had a few of the dummy cartridges and one cut-away, very slick.
That was more during the 1970s as part of the follow-on Future Rifle System/Future Rifle Program. I think George Reynolds is still alive. He worked on the 30mm single-shot and multi-shot grenades while working for the US Army, and afterwards, he continued his work on a stand-alone 30mm semi-auto launcher at Knox Engineering.
Came for the guns.. stayed for the story. Like always. Hope you never stop what you do. Love all the history that comes with these vids.
Religious argument:
Could God make a gun so complicated that Gun Jesus himself cannot disassemble it?
Yes.
conradkolo, well in the same sense that Santa can build a toy that is so complicated that a parent can't put it together.
@@zxgbrider9192 santa and God arent the same person ricky
@Baron Von Grijffenbourg that was a quote from trailer park boys
.. i am not even getting into this convo
We will find out at Christmas with the G11!
PROJECT SPEW: An early film by Ron Jeremy, turned into a sexy dart throwing green stocked beast of a rifle.
When will Kel-Tec have this in stores?
YAHTZEE. This idea will go far.
When Kel-Tec actually increases production beyond just getting enough guns for reviewers every year...
All 5 will be built and then sold but they will take orders for 5 years before they try to make more
That would be Hi-Point ,sir!
I think, right after they get my SU-16A fixed, which should be any day now, it's only been a yr and a half.
I remember using flechete rounds in M203 and M79 40mm grenades in Oz in the 1980's. Lots of tiny holes in the targets. Working the butts was scary they ricocheted all over the place.
The armory is a cool place to visit. Used to go up to the Quad Cities to ride my bicycle along the waterfront trails and would crossover the Mississippi on Armory Island.
The grenade launcher site looks awfully fragile, and able to snag on anything.
Given the play when he showed it, I'd imagine that's been its fate at least once in its life.
It honestly looks like whoever designed this forgot about it until the night before it was due and put together something that looked like a future concept/kids toy/ bad prop gun out of what they found in their garage. I hope they got an F for effort
Well it wasn't adopted if that's what you mean...
Aberdeen Proving Ground said as much in one of their reports - something to the effect that Winchester did not understand the specifications nor the program's importance.
Looks like a high-school science fair project that was done the night before the fair lol
Very cool Ian. Thank you for spewing all thay history, to explain this amazing military rifle. This channel and a few others keep youtube going. Thanks for the video. I wonder if you can find ammo, i would love to see this thing shoot. That launcher looks amazing and the rifle looks so barrel heavy.
"...three lug bolt, up in here."
Me: *_UP IN HERE? UP IN HERE!_*
No?
_(car crash)_
I thought of that too lol
Y'all gonna make me act a fool
Absolute beast of a video, Ian. We got history, we got ingenuity, we got eccentricity. So cool, man!
There was limited use of duplex 7.62 nato rounds in Vietnam but they were issued to some special ops units
Cool I didn't know that thank you ian should do a video on that if he is reading these
second
Amazing Bond Gun!! Cheers from Argentina !
The history of the contracts is SO NECESSARY. Thanks for always doing an excellent complete job.
I binge and then rest from your channel and every time I'm in one of my periods binging I'm just so glad that you're doing this... There is no way at all that I could ever hope in my life to have all the conversations go all of the places and read the thousands of books necessary to figure out all the cool little stuff you show us with all of the details of the how, The who and the why.
You did a great job of explaining what is not explainable. Thanks so much for all your efforts. I don’t often leave comments but you are special.
I would love to see any footage taken during this platform’s conception and fabrication. Any high speed footage on the range would be amazing.
"Wow" that would be a truly forgotten weapon! Never even heard of it, Thank's Ian!👍
Can't believe he didn't show some of the flechet rounds. I was really hoping to see some of the different rounds made for this.
Who gives thumbs down on these videos? I mean really. It's exactly what you'd want. An in depth history and tear down of guns that you may have forgotten. The camera work is good. The clarity, the editing. If I could like it 10 times I would
"How do you win at Camp Perry with a duplex cartridge?"
Seems easy enough to me, pull trigger once, hit all targets at same time. Game over, go home.
You win twice !
When the Elbonian Army sends their entire paratroop force, consisting of five soldiers and two cats aboard their single 1947-era Antonov AN-2, to invade the US mainland. Due to an unfortunate error in navigation they bail out directly over Camp Perry during the annual All-Army Marksmanship Competition.
I don't think there will ever be a gun that can "do it all", but that gun and others like it are still extremely fascinating. Thanks Ian.
They gave you the best place to shoot this video. Nothing like a utility room to say "Thanks for coming".
Well, guaranteed no interruptions!
i think you are the best gun review / gun historian dude on youtube. you are extremely informative on stuff that is not boring hahah
Looks like a sweet rifle. Too bad it was ruined by having to have a grenade launcher
TBH the grenade launcher was the most interesting an impressive part. The whole feed mechanism and self loading feature just seems so crazy. Too bad this gun didn't have field testing, I'd be curious to see how the grenade launcher worked in combat.
I don't know much about guns, but with all the parts to it, it seems like it would jam easily. @@benlzicar7628
Seems like it might have worked better had they scaled down to 25-30mm grenades and made it sort of an upside-down tube fed mechanism with the bottom of the handguard.
@@ToastyMozart like the pulse rifle from aliens
No disassembly? Dang.
You would've thought that Rock Island would have also gotten and stashed away or written down some documentation about that when they got the rifle.
Ah well, hopefully when you get to AAI's ACR you'd be able to pull it apart.
Lol, love the fact Ian looks like he is in an electrical closet. Also I wonder how M14 fan boys will like to see what looks like a ghetto-fied green M14 thing with a another....thing under the barrel
I don't have a crazy love for guns. I've never fired one but I enjoy the mechanics, have read warfare related stories since I was a young boy, and I play lots of violent video games. I am not interested in most gun channels because they are often run by Americans who put a lot of emphasis on how awesome guns are and how cool it is to own them. I adore that you focus on the mechanical, historical, and practical aspects of firearms which is the stuff I am interested in. Its hard to think of killing people as cool but obviously the inventions are and all the little mechanical differences and the reasons behind them/generation of the ideas behind them is super cool. Thanks for keeping it classy.
Soooo... can I bid on this or not?
No
No, but you might be able to make reproduction model if you have all the paperwork in order?
So cool to see a big channel like this in my hometown!
The grenade launcher looks like it belongs in borderlands
I live just across the river from the island, in Iowa. That place is really neat, so much history is there and passes thru. My friend's dad helped fund and found R.I. auction company
Morning folks. This was a nice commute audio.
I was a pmc for 7 years, can count on one hand the number of times we were in contact with an enemy beyond 200 yards. Granted I was mostly urban or similar, but that report isnt *all* wrong. Lol
There are no allies in south africa.
;)
Kidding aside, we treated everyone who wasnt in our team as hostile, for better or worse. It wasnt nice, but everyone caught on quickly language barrier or no. Non bad guys cleared out immediately when we showed up so generally speaking only bad guys remained. That wasnt a fool proof system and ugly things did happen. Never said I was happy about it, but thats how it was.
Dont buy diamonds. Lol
PMC = private military contractor.
Saxon, can you say where you were? I married into an SA family, have heard many stories from Angola and the like...
Id rather not be specific but sometimes near AngloGold Ashanti and other KZN
Have to clock in but ill be back later. Hope everyone has a good day.
Great to see you visit Rock Island Arsenal! They have some great stuff.
"it turned out in testing, this was pretty much a terrible gun" hey, no guts, no glory.
The age old argument that boils down to how many projectiles you can throw in the air in the general direction of the enemy, more being better.
I saw the SPIW at the former Ordnance Museum that used to be in Aberdeen Md. You fail to mention as to how the fiberglass splinters from the fletchette sabots could blind the shooter (as was mentioned in the museum display), but still an ultimately cool piece of history, even if you wouldn't want to shoot it without a ballistic face shield!
I tend to doubt that even the Old Western Scrounger could find SPIW rounds though!
Seven and a half minutes of historical context and background.
Beautiful.
You got to love government departments spend tens of millions on perfecting something and never use it
This is really cool. Thanks for continuing to make these videos, Ian.
Thank you sir. Once again you have kept me enthralled.
Despite being a Rhodesian, I'm not usually into firearms much.
Awesome videos! Thank you for all of them and for the information. I love watching your videos and learning about all of the strange weapons you get to check out and experience.
Excellent! I've been there, and wondered if you ever had been. There's so much I enjoyed there - best I'd been at since the old Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen. (Also: "DON'T SHUT OFF" on the turned off switch box on the background is amusing.) Also, 'Glass-Nylon hybrid' would imply glass-reinforced/filled nylon which isn't all that unusual but probably required a lot of tweaking.
Is the ordnance museum the one that Atwater curated?
@@awmperry - Yes, but they have since moved the entire collection from Aberdeen Proving Ground to Ft. Lee.
@@awmperry That is correct.
I don't watch for regular gun stroking (which there is next to none here) I watch for the weird guns, the odd stories, crazy ideas, which is what Ian enjoys too. Especially these weird never to be seen prototypes
Somebody...
TOUCHA MY FLECHETTE!
I'm sorry.
13i0Hazard666 don’t be.
GET OUT! Kidding.
No you are not
You better be
Thats ok
I love the history lesson and the technical aspects of this video
Rule #1 of a combat rifle: a Idiot should be able to figure out how to disassemble and reassemble it. This rifle fails in that aspect.
Edit: Gun Jesus is NOT an idiot.
An idiot should never be handed a rifle. A moron perhaps, but not an idiot.
Taxtro what’s the difference
It's crazy to me that Ian does this entire explanation in one long take.... Shows he really knows the material and not just reading of a script.
3:55 I didn't realize they made a Remington 11-87 in the 50's.....
It was the 11-48.
@@danielwatters1203 I know that... It was a joke.....
Awesome channel. The usual quality review is delivered once more. Thank you!
Cool, would have been interesting to see samples (even inert) of the ammo.
The Browning Museum has an extensive collection of prototype weapons not found anywhere else. They used to have a team of stuffed horses pulling a cassion and artillery piece, but horses became so tattered they pulled out of the exhibit. They also used to have a Kiowa scout copter with a mini gun on it, but that too was removed. Budget cutbacks have limited their hours of operation and made it difficult to get there despite the fact that I work on the Rock Island Arsenal about a mile away. Still the museum is a fantastic place to visit with tons of history. The RIA isn't easy to get into these day and require a visitors pass to be issued by access control at the Moline gate. That takes 20-30 minutes, so ask for a 12 month pass.
Dont forget the not so small arms outside, like the M65 "Atomic Cannon"
Davvero molto interessante questo strano progetto del 1960 , e lo apprendo grazie a "Forgotten Weapon " ormai un punto di riferimento sulle armi storiche e sconosciute oltre ad ogni nuovita 👍
This is the 1960s OICW. Or, more accurately, the OICW was the 1990s SPIW.
Keen! A real science fiction needler!
I was part of the navy side of project SPEW in 1975. Beers were a dime in the beer machines and 15 cents at the EM club. Those were the days!
Saw another version of the SPIW at the Ordinance museum at Aberdeen, great museum ! One of the photos I took there even made it on mythbusters.
Green tipped Duplex rounds were produced in large amounts. Used to have thousands of rounds of it and people still have it.
From iraq .. i want to say you are the best sir .. nice show and nice youtube channel.. i like forgotten weapons
I love project names. Spe(i)w is so fitting for this weapon.
Awesome video! i was hopeing you would get to a SPIW rifle at some point, shame you guys couldent figure how to take it apart, funny how something that was competing to be a service rifle at some point is now so lost to history we no longer know how to take it apart, i wonder if its covered in the trials reports?
Without the grenade thing, and with a normal magazine, that would look like a pretty cool rifle, aesthetically speaking.
When I saw the thumbnail, I thought this was some insane ye olde underslung grenade launcher
Your videos are always fascinating, great work.
With all of these mega weird and interesting ideas floating around in the US military's head about wanting to attach all this stuff onto rifles, it makes me wonder why they never considered, or if they did why it didn't go anywhere either, making these flechette/grenade launchers into separate, hand-holdable weapons. It seems that they put all the work into developing cartridges but failed to make a delivery system for them that would actually work. At least to me, it seems like they could have easily taken the undermounted launcher from this rifle (or other such designs), developed it more to stick a stock and some sights on it and have a working launcher. Maybe it wasn't worth it to them to make certain soldiers carry around an additional, heavy weapon? But at the same time it must have been pretty obvious to them that the "all-in-one" designs were exceptionally unwieldy anyway and would cause troops to get bogged down with them.
There was a working launcher available at the moment this launcher was developed, it was called M79. Multi-shot launcher for the same 40mm grenades existed too, it is now called a "China Lake prototype". Flechette launcher is the rifle itself. The order was to design a rifle that fires one flechette from every cartridge.
Thanks, good stuff . Very good Collector Grade book on the subject.
The grenade launcher is kind of a genius design
Thank you , Ian .
Informative and entertaining .
Perfect way to start my morning
You know you're in for a good one when Ian takes 5 minutes to explain why something ever occurred to someone as something that needed to exist.
The most effective piece of military equipment responsible for Soldiers actually killing the enemy instead of shooting at them, is the man shaped silhouette target. Human beings have a natural aversion to killing other human beings, unless you specifically train it away from them. Archers en mass rarely direct fired at the enemy, and people with swords are normally actively defending their own life while fighting. A man with a rifle looking at another man 300m away is a different story.
psychoaiko666 at least one arms manual of the time suggests that if you only have a sword against another knight you should grab your sword by the blade and beat them with the hilt.
A: Grossman's book is trash that's based on flawed and outright wrong research.
B: Archers absolutely engaged in direct fire. They basically had two modes - area and point. Point targets for an English longbow were actually as far out as 200-300 yards. It also helps that their main targets were either lightly armored peasants or the only slightly better armored warhorses of rich guys as arrows were pretty ineffective against any decent armor.
4:25 "If you SPIW, SPIW in this." - Garth