The Trainer #70 - EVAP Testing Tips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- The purpose of the Evaporative Emissions system, lovingly referred to as “EVAP” by many of us, is pretty straight forward - keep the fuel vapors locked up and out of the atmosphere.
Well, it sounds straight forward, but it can be a little overwhelming when it doesn’t work as it was designed to. The first order of business is to understand what type of system the vehicle in question is equipped with. Even if you work on only one model line, you are still faced with variations on a theme, so it is always an important first step to identify what kind of detection strategy is in play. For example, using pressure to test a system that the ECM uses vacuum to test could lead you to miss the mark.
Handling EVAP DTCs related to component issues is also relatively straight forward. It’s locating the source of the “small leak detected” that can cause you to pull your hair out. In this edition of the Trainer, we’ll cover tips and techniques to help you quickly handle a variety of EVAP abnormalities, with a focus on finding those pesky leaks!
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Due to factors beyond the control of Motor Age, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. Motor Age magazine (UBM Americas - Automotive Group) assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Motor Age recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of Motor Age, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Motor Age magazine or its corporate parent, UBM Americas. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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i just looked at this video today and it gave me a fantastic overview of the EVAP system. I am a weekend warrior trying to fix my own EVAP problem and your explanation of the EVAP system was the most useful video I found. Thanks very much!
I loved the video, especially when you pulled out the CO2 detector… blew me away. I don’t say this much, but I was upset when the video came to an end. I feel there was much more to learn. Thank you for the time you took.
Finally EVAP explained. As a Saturday mechanic this has been the best video on the topic ever. I now have a better idea where to go with these problems on my cars.
Thanks for taking the time to comment !
This is a wonderful video on how the system operates and especially how to find leaks. I have an EVAP leak on my truck. I purchased a smoke machine to help me find it and you gave me some ideas on how to use it. Thank you.
Grow a BRAIN!!!
Has to be the BEST EVAP explanation video I have come across; the knowledge you shared was unique and to the point!
I have Subscribed to your Channel as I can only imagine the wealth of knowledge I can learn for sure, thank you!!
I am a DIY Mechanic working to help find and fix a P0456 DTC on my Mom's 2008 Lexus ES350 with 55K miles.
I have purchased the new Autoline Pro Ventus (All-In-One) Smoke machine and just recently purchased a new Topdon ArtiDiag Pro so that I can have the Bi-Directional controls to manage the Vent Valve (primarily) and the Purge Valves open and closed states. I will work on this project today and hopefully find the leak.
Thanks for your videos. I recently started at them. God bless you and your family and business and give you patience and time to keep making them for us to learn. Blessings.
Best explanation of how to troubleshoot an EVAP system on YT!
Intelligent, thorough and well presented - thank you for such a good job!
This plumber really appreciate you.
CHEVY
Excellent informative video! Much appreciated knowledge on understanding the EVAP system and how important it is to understand prior to troubleshooting. Thank you!
very informative video. especially the diagnostic tip about inaccurate data.
Thank you sir for this training. I really enjoy learning from you. Good job. Thank you Motor Age.
Outstanding as always. Going over many scenarios. Thank you.
This is awesome!! I love learning more about a issues I having. It is one thing to just start bolting parts on because others did it to fix it but learning root cause troubleshooting you can truly fix the problem. I have two cars maybe 3 but it’s too old for odb this was my 1st time watching and will not be my last. Thank you for the wisdom and knowledge. The CO2 is a great idea as using shop air was worrying me because I really don’t want the fire and a sniffer for CO2 is simple too.
I felt the same way, and that CO2 sensor blew me away! I was impressed.
Great review. I started with the service valve on the purge valve under the hood of my Jeep. I added a balloon at the other side of the line in the back and watch for deflation. If it did not I added a component and watch again. It is how I checked the purge valve and the LDP as well. I isolated the fuel tank and the canister and worked my way though the system. For pressure, as it is 7.5 inches of water, or 1/4 PSI I used a bulb you get of a blood pressure cuff. Easy control. It took me a while to really understand how this EVAP worked but once I did I just processed it. Of course I had a leak on top of the EVAP line on top of the fuel tank. Not much fun but did fix it. Learned a lot. I do have a Launch 431 scanner but there too you have to learn specific tests. You also need to know how it looks when all is well. So starting of with failed system made that difficult.
Best explanation I've seen on this system yet. Thank you!
Thank you very much for explaining this so well and in such great detail.
well explained and precise video. thank you very much now i understand the concept of EVAP system. i would like to see more videos like this i am a mechanic student from Italy i really appreciate your videos. once again thank you so much .
Super. Thanks for sharing all that knowledge. keep it up with that excellent work. God bless
good training.I learned more about EVAP monitor
Very good instinctual video. Thank you.
Thanks for very precise and useful information . salute from Learners beginners .
Very very useful tips here that are so easy to forget. Great video!
Ink pen and paper
The color changing foam is a great idea
Very well explained. Great video
Thank you very much Sir!
Great video indeed!
Thanks Sir! you helped me ! Just Got a evap code on my 2011 crown vic CVPI and my fuel gauge started to act up, Happy New Years !
Was it the fuel pump assy?
Good information. Thanks!
Very helpful! Thanks!
Thanks, very informative.
Hi from Dubai, great information video
Sir, a very clear and honest way of checking EVAP. What is your source of experience? Is there a "common" issue associated with EVAP? Last question...would EVAP have something to do with the fuel nozzle clicking off, frequently, while fueling vehicle? Thanks again for a great video.👍
Great video...
Very helpful good info as always thankyou for sharing.cheeeers
Ok thanks for gathering that info that's what I had dialed it down too also the only problem is evap pump module is part of the canister for theses years don't think you can replace just that component unfourtantly without replacing evap canister which is bout 4 to 6 hundred dollars lol
thanks for your help
Thank you ..very helpful
Thanks very helpful!!
When engineers stand in front of tool boxes and talk. Lol
Pete you're the greatest
Appreciated. Have Subscribed....
I'm a novice actually. IMHO vehicles with outdated hoses that should have been maintained properly cause detecting such leaks a headache trying to trace a leak. So for sake of argument, many hoses are so bad they need replacing. With that done then comes checking the actual components, which would make it much easier to find the culprit component.
Very good tip thx
Thanks sir you are the best well said 👏 ❤😊
thanks for information, 2011 tacoma code:456 (Evap small leak), smoke test shows smoke coming from small tube that is attached to filler hole. OEM gas replaced and filler hole was covered but small tube attached was left uncovered and smoke was coming out. any advise. thanks again.
My 01 xj is currently throwing a large evap .. trouble shooting I replaced my gas cap the o ring was another dry rotten .. after this it tossed a code to my purge valve which I also replaced .. but still throwing the code after reset ... My next two bets would be the gas line or charcoal box ...? If these two things aren't the cause.. would my leak detection pump the cause ?
So since N2 Nitrogen molecules are slightly larger than CO2, would one really be better than the other? I have a tank of Nitrogen for welding is why I pose the question.
I only have the P1494 code, which is leading me to believe I have a faulty solenoid/LDP, versus a leak in one of the vacuum lines. Any thoughts?
EDIT: I also noticed since my check engine light came on, my cruise control doesn't work as well as it did prior to the P1494 code being thrown. FYI...
Well done!! Very well spoken and broken down the right way, I e looked everywhere, I have a 2007 Volvo S80 3.2 , I have a P0458 code , also codes for all 4 O2sensors? Could this Evaporator emissions system purge Control valve circuit low be the cause of all of my O2 sensors throwing codes?THANKS FOR ANY AND ALL HELP! I work on my 2003 x5 BMW but this is my first Volvo....
nope
@Motor Age Pete, EVERYTIME I perform the EVAP Purge/Seal test on my 2004 Trailblazer EXT LT 4.2L 6 cyl. my car stalls immediately ONCE I HIT THE SEAL BUTTON, and all vacuum in tank(I usually pull vac between -7 to -10 inH20, that's like 60% command on the Purge) goes immediately back to 0.00 inH20 and the FTP sensor voltage goes down from 3-4 volts back to atmospheric 1.5v. EVAP Diag seems to be my nemesis! Any thoughts, suggestions, remedies, tips, ANYTHING? Thanks in advance.
On the road today...send me the full story (pete.meier@ubm.com) and I'll take a look when I get back
I'm actually curious to know what became of this.....
Co2 isn’t smaller than air. Air is majority n2 which has a bond length of 1.09 angstrom compare to 1.16 of c=o. Keeping in mind co2 has two of those bonds. Also the molecular mass is 44g/mol vs 28. Using the co2 detector is a great idea.
I am new to this.i used my scan tool driving live data -1300 driving & idel around -100... Says should be -35 to 50. That mean a lead or bad conester? Thanks
Po447 and po448. Tuf to find on my 2006 subaru sti. Spent lots of money in ct.
Great tutorial.
Could you please provide information on that smoke machine.
I'd like to buy one.
Thank you.
Here you go! smokewizard.com/
Link is no longer good.
Great tips. I worked on a 2017 Sonic last week that had a faulty purge valve. It would only fail when activated by the PCM (pulse width modulated), and created a p0171 code. No EVAP codes though.
Did the vehicle have a rough idle?
😊 👍😊👌
Want to say ty.
Great video, nicely done. No crazy music, paced at a good speed .Videos like this really help. I need to get information that tells me what % that the purge valve should be open at different RPM. Any idea where I may find that,. What causes the EVAP purge valve to open in the first place? Could a stuck "open " purge valve cause the engine to go to about 2500RPM? thank you
The purge valve is either open or not - it's how long it's open that I think you're asking about. The ECM commands the valve open under specific conditions (unique to the vehicle) to allow the collected fuel vapors in the canister to be drawn into the engine and burned. If the valve is open when it shouldn't be, it may cause a rich DTC - usually at idle. Is the car you're working on a MAF or speed density system? (MAF or MAP sensor?)
@@MotorAgeMagazine Thank your reply.
Let me give you some background on the vehicle that I working on.
2002 Buick Century about 150K miles
problem idle speed sometimes gets as high as 3400 RPM. No fault codes so far.
I have replaced TPS, IAC, PCV valve and hoses. Cleaned MAF sensor.
The condition is INTERMITTENT.
Reply to you question. I have both MAF and MAP sensors and I get readings on both.
I'm using a Tech 2 clone. Can't tell you how good it really is because I'm not familiar with scanners and don't know for sure what the one I have is actually capable of doing.
It shows around 40+ parameters on Engine data.
The idle speed sometimes is "normal" and then goes all the way to 3400, hasn't done that lately it lately, RPM stayed around 2500.
I have noticed that IAC goes from about 30 to 60+ counts ( depends on RPM) I had as much as over 90 counts.
TPS shows increased % and voltage as RPM increases. However I think that the plate is actually closed. Why are these parameters changing.
I suspect that heat may be having an effect on the problem,
It is most likely to occur when engine is warm up.
Yesterday I had an event when the engine ran in the 700's RPM for about 15 minutes, then things went out of wack. All this sitting on the driveway.
I have watched your videos, signed up for Motorage connect but have not seen anything that resembles what is going on.
Someone suggest that it might be the PCM.
I ordered a LOADpro and the companion book. Prove arrived DOA. I'm awaiting for the replacement.
I want to do what you suggest on the video and check as many connections as possible. I want to be as sure as possible that if there is something that caused the PCM to fail, it can be identified and correct before a new one is installed, if that is the course of action.
This thing has baffled quite a few people.
If you have any suggestions, as far as any of your videos, material from MotorAge connect, or your personal suggestions, I would be greatful for anything that might help with this puzzle.
Thank you
@@dveloso150 did you find a mechanic? what was it?
@@i.jackanov7382 Thanks for asking . As it turned out I became the mechanic. What I did is I purchased an used IAC ( idle air valve) controller. I found out that the IAC valve is a step motor and is controlled by the ECU. Since no one can really tell me what is going on, and I have tried many different approaches without a desirable outcome I decided to just make it happen as best as I can. The IAC controller can be plugged in the valve and the idle can be moved up and down. I chose some RPM that sounded and felt like was ok and set it at that. Never connected the ECU plug back to the IAC and I now have a vehicle, which is not perfect, but is a hell of a lot better than the moody engine that I had with all the extreme variations. It hesitates a bit when the engine is cold but after a few minutes it runs reasonably well. I don't recall if I told you that I replaced the ECU and the car ran fine for a couple months and then it started with the huge idle variations. It now has a IAC valve which has been set and the computer can't communicate with it to operate the step motor. Life is not what one wants but what one can get. That is my answer to the problem that no one was either able or willing to answer. Thank for contacting me.
@@dveloso150 Check to see if your solinoid operated EGR valve is sticking. If it sticks , it will act like the throttle is being opened.
What is the problem when you when you get a tighten up gas cap when your gas tank get low po po445
I had diagnostic run on my 01 Dakota, evac pump was only code. Truck stalls when stopping sometimes, would evac have anything to do with that ?
Sorry for the late reply - out on the road attending an event! What code was it?
Believe it was p 0455
Thank you.
Hello:)
Should a evap solenoid be clicking while car is in idle?
Can stuff be faulty an not throw codes?
No, it should not and yes, it is possible to have a fault that does not trigger a code.
@@MotorAgeMagazine thank you very much:)
Yes there's a video on eBay
I have a 2011 porsche panamera and I smell a strong carbon exhaust coming into the cabin when at idle could it be a bad purge valve or a clogged pvc
If you're getting an exhaust odor in the cabin, check for an exhaust leak.
I had a Evap leak code. I looked under the car and found that the line coming from the tank to the canister was broken. I glued it back in place, and the code went away. But the problem of a rough idle after fueling still exists. Is it the purge valve, the glued piece, or the system is dirty? No code yet after many miles.
What year, make and model are you working on? Any codes - set or pending? Do you have fuel trim information?
2008 Ford Escape XLS 4 cylinder. I am using Blue Driver to read codes and it just has mode 6. I can gather some fuel trim info, what am I looking for? Short term or long? I fueled up again today, and it still has trouble starting and idling. No codes popped up yet.
@@cloudchaser907 If the problem is occurring ONLY after fueling, then I would suspect a problem with the purge solenoid. When you fill the tank, the fumes should be contained but if the purge solenoid is open it may be allowing excess fumes to enter the engine - creating a momentarily "rich", or even "flooded", condition.
Try disconnecting the purge line from the intake and closing off the nipple on the intake to keep it from sucking air OR try holding the throttle all the way down on start-up in "Clear Flood" mode to see if that helps.
Sir Good Morning and nice to meet you! I have a 2003 Dodge Caravan and i have 2 evap codes P0442 & P0455 and i have performed several smoke tests on the caravan but i have no scan tool with bi-directional controls to command the evap system to seal, what other affordable tools can i use to seal the components of the evap system?
Chrysler uses a Leak Detection Pump to identify leaks in the system. The only thing to close off is the vent solenoid, and you can do that manually. Personally, I like to break the system down in sections and test each one separately. And be aware that the smoke may not be making it to the fuel cap - fuel can absorb the smoke. Look at the pressure decay too. Here's a video that may help: th-cam.com/video/CSn0ljUS6kI/w-d-xo.html
@@MotorAgeMagazine Good Morning! How can i manually close the vent solenoid?
@@AF1MIDS You can use Mode 08 on some vehicles to close the system, or you can remove it and block the line.
@@MotorAgeMagazine I dont think the 2003 Dodge Caravan has a vent solenoid but i do see a vent valve on a hose connected to the charcoal canister
@@AF1MIDS Same thing
another thing you can use, if your in an emission test facility or have a 4 or five gas analyzer, sniff the whole evap system when sealed and under pressure
What Should i Look For With This Issue ? System too lean off idle bank 1 , System too lean Bank 1 , Evap - Purge ( High purge flow ) ?????? Need Help !!!!!! Thanks
Need a bit more information - What kind of vehicle are you talking about (year, make, model, engine)? What are DTCs are stored (give the DTC code numbers)? Let's start there!
i want mine fixed. it is causing ocassional hard starts i am thinking. and runs a tad poor and more fuel.
When you're pumping gas into the tank, where do the vapors in the tank go? I see no pathway in your diagram that would allow flow because it looks like the vent and purge solenoids would be closed. I have an '09 Tundra with all the usual codes on that will not take gas at the station anymore without over flow. But if I leave the truck for hours and then pour gas in with a 5 gallon can it flows in fast with no problems.
The layout and design of EVAP systems is unique to the various OEMs. This is a fundamental overview of the role of the EVAP system. But to answer your question, I would inspect the vent solenoid to make sure it is open (normal position - only closed for testing purposes). And the line from the canister to the tank. Something is restricting air flow from the tank to the canister - necessary as the air is displaced by the fuel you're trying to add. Hope this helps!
Can a stuck purge valve create a p219b code. I’m trying to find the source. my mechanic said might be a vacuum leak. He said injectors are okay. I have a rough idle and a p219b code. I already replaced pcv valve. It runs smooth at road and hey speed.
This DTC indicates a detected imbalance between the banks air/fuel ratio. So first, I'd try to determine which bank was abnormal. What are the fuel trims for both banks? (STFT and LTFT)? Also, what kind of car are we talking about? (Make, model, year, engine, mileage)?
2014 Grand Caravan 3.6. Just had all the rockers and exhaust cam replaced along with spark plugs but the code was there prior to the repair. I have a cheap code reader only and all it tells me is there are 3 DTC’s all p219b.
2014
@@rydgomez2 What are the fuel trims at idle and 2500?
@@rydgomez2 Did a bit of research and a common cause on your vehicle is aging upstream oxygen sensors. They are not responding fast enough and may set a code. If you have high mileage on your van, try looking at them.
Any DIY scanner you would recommend me. As I said, for a DIY person, not a mechanic, something that would help me out with my 2013 Toyota Tacoma, v6 with automatic transmission, thanks, blessings.
If you just want to access emissions-related information (stuff that turns on the Check Engine Light) then any scanner built to meet SAE Global OBD II standards should work just fine.
@@MotorAgeMagazine What scanner are you using in this video ?
@@coyotespirit7128 LaunchTech X431
If you overfill your gas tank, or have a full tank and go over large bumps in the road could this damage the vapor canister by causing liquid gas to go into the vapor canistor
No, an overfilled tank will not cause liquid fuel to enter the canister.
I have same problem .. If I overfill the gas tank I found liquid gas in vapor canister.. And I found code P2188 by obd2 checker.
Hyundai Elantra 2013 1600cc 230k mile
Motor Age, Scotty Kilmer says don’t overfill th-cam.com/video/7BJTilcHYP4/w-d-xo.html
Do you have a link for the co2 regulator.
Here you go.
www.automotivetestsolutions.com/
Didn't put his hands on anything..lol. I'm going to see if Dave has any new Ninja videos out..Potlickers!!
Strange most youtubers talkin about EVAP systems say the charocal canister air intake is open all the time, and your saying it only opens when the purge valve opens, which makes more sense, so which one is it may i ask? LOL
The canister vent is normally open, not just when the purge valve opens. It is closed to seal the system for testing.
@@MotorAgeMagazine Thanks heaps
I'm getting a blinking Monitor icon, "EV", yellow LED indicator light, No DTC's presently stored in code reader's memory. Also, NO Engine light is presently showing on dashboard.
Vehicle info? (YR,Make,Model, Engine)
@@MotorAgeMagazine Thanks. It's a 2012 Dodge Grand Caravan stow 'n go. I've been driving it back and forth around town 5 miles here and there but am old at 75 and can't do much traveling and am in fear of a cop hitting me for an expired inspection ticket at $200-$250. After changing the thermostat and Heater-blend door actuator (clacking noise/teeth broken), I cleared the codes in hope that the computer would run its recognition over time.
@@jerrymontalbano3222 Can you take a picture of the cash with the light on so I can see it? Send it to pmeier@endeavorb2b.com
My method to shut the solenoid was I ordered a solenoid connector wire and put a fuse to it with a toggle switch and ran the wire from my battery to the solenoid... Basically I made a jumper wire to shut the solenoid off...
Multiple leaks that sum to 0.020" ?? How ??
If the gas guage doesn't work will that make the computer run the car differently?
It can impact the EVAP testing the ECM does, depending on the design. The same signal used to operate the gauge is also used to inform the ECM how much gas is in the tank,
@@MotorAgeMagazine Thx man i appreciate it. My fuel guage wasnt working, then the fuel sending unit finally quit working. After a shop put the new one in it still doesnt work. They said it was a bad cluster. I parked on a steep incline one day and the fuel guage began to work and i gained normal power to my vehicle for 15 minutes til it quit again. I don't know if they did something wrong or not. I had other shops do diagnostics and couldnt find nothing. I just found i have a leak in the plastic intake manifold gasket, i put GDI intake cleaner in and all my vacuum leaks showed up when the system pressurized when i shut it off. Do you think the intake leak could affect my fuel tank from pressurizing properly and not get a reading on the gas guage. My 2004 explorer 4.0 flex fuel GDI engine has been a complete nightmare.
@@lebeckchris No,, that's not going to cause the fuel gauge to read incorrectly. Sounds like you may have more than one issue going on.
Any 1 that knows the evap system of vw cc 3.6.. did several tests but no conclusive answer... drop your email pls
Let's start of by getting some more complete information. Make, model, year, engine size, auto or manual trans? What is the issue or DTC you are attempting to fix?
Shot an even problem in my 4 runner now and it's driving me up the wall
What's the problem?
I’ve got an evap issue somewhere also that has kicked on my traction control and skid lights supposedly that’s is a fail safe thing for Toyota don’t have a scan tool to shut valves so I may have to go with a smoke machine
@@davidblankenship7599 What codes are you trying to diagnose? And what year is the vehicle?
I’ve since got a exhaust leak but my code are as follows p043E,p043F,p2401and2402 with a p2419 code but I know some of these codes can cause other codes
I have replaced both vsv valaves under the hood and replaced several vacuum lines and I know that on my 2006 Toyota 4 runner sr5 that the purge valve is built into the charcoal canister
I will like to have you check my car.
Your info. In hindi language
Evap systems are incredibly badly designed. They use cheap steel lines that run along the frame rails that are exposed to the elements and rust out, in some places rubber hose is used that deteriorates. If quality materials were used for the lines and other key points in the system, like the pump retaining ring problems would be greatly reduced and repairs could be made more accurately, and less expenive. This is another effort to make what is a basically simple system overly complex.
Put you at a half a tank of gas
damn how many times do you need to repeat yourself
Ban ice and go electric. A hell of a lot simpler ..
Buy a cheap smoke machine off of amazon , use it then send it back as broken for a full refund
Your sense of ethics and morality not really well developed huh?
@@FranktheDachshund your just mad you didn't think of it first.
And then wonder why shit costs as much as it does,lol
Very informative, thank you