How Metroidvania's Invented The Soulsborne Genre ( Video Essay )
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- From the castle of Dracula to the colony of Ceres, let's explore the origins of Soulsborne.
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Thanks for watching everyone, let me know what you think. I will eventually cover Zelda & how it shaped Souls as well, but I wanted to spotlight Castlevania, Metroid & more in this video. Subscribe & share to give my life meaning. And thanks for 20K that's a lot of people, so that's insane.
Big kisses muah muah muuuaahhhhhh
You should check out Megaman Zero series you might like it.
Now stop, wait a minute!
You've started your video with Symphony of the Night, the glaring example of the metroidvania game in the series (not the first per se 'cause there was not only Simon's Quest for NES you've mentioned but also the version of the original game for MSX which was MUCH CLOSER to the Symphony of the Night in it's gameplay choices) but in that interview (at 3:19) Igarashi was talking NOT about SotN but the PREVIOUS games in the series, obviously. So the question is are you talking about the metroidvania (i.e. Symphony of the Night and beyond) or the Castlevania in general?
I mean, everybody by this point know what the term "NINTENDO hard" means and it has nothing to do with any particular genre or game series. It was simply the style at the time (and funny enough, it was more like that in US, not in Japan where those games came from in the first place).
In other words, that early part doesn't make any sense, even though I'm completely agree that Demon/Dark Souls/Bloodborn has a certain Castlevania vibe and that's good)) My comment is more about the structure of your script, just so you know.
Have you covered how the original Metroid is heavily inspired by The Legend of Zelda, so the Metroidvania genre is basically just zelda-likes?
Grew up playing all of the Castlevania games, and hadn’t played a Souls game until Elden Ring. It was about 20 hours in when I saw the DNA and realized that it was a open world Castlevania game done perfectly.
Their previous souls games have even more blatant CV inspirations due to their non-open world design
Now play them all!
Dark Souls and Bloodborne are more similar to Castlevania than Elden Ring
Mega man got a mention! And in such a great way! Using abilities from bosses you’ve beaten on future bosses is a great observation
Thanks for watching I really enjoyed making this video
I love this comment for many reasons but reminding me to listen to megaman zero 2 Departure again is a huge plus 😂
Looks like my next 20 minutes are now booked, I'm excited to see the connections between some of my favorite game series
🤘🏻🔥
I thought I was the only one who constantly compared Castelvania to Soulsborne! I always thought Dark Souls was 3D modernized Castlevania since the very first time I played Dark Souls 1, then it got even more SUPER apparent when I played Bloodborne for the first time. I think it's so crazy so many others I talk to about games don't see the similarities as much. Dark Souls is basically modernized 3D SotN but with the difficulty of the first 3 classic NES Castlevanias.
Now, if we could just get a 3D Remake of Symphony of the Night in Soulsborne style by Miyakzaki, that would be so hype!!! And fits perfectly IMO.
Another game I find as a near perfect modernization of an older classic game is Returnal to Metroid. I really wish modern Metroid games played more like Returnal, it would just fit so well IMO. Returnal fits Metroid better than the Metroid Prime style and obviously the Other M style. The only big difference I see is Returnal lacks puzzles like Metroid. Metroid Dread was decent, but it was it was more of the same. Returnal to me feels like the perfect modernized Metroid. Returnal is also super underrated too.
That whole DNA analogy made me realize...somehow, it always goes back to Nintendo.
Mario. Zelda. Metroid.
Mario lol
@wallacesousuke1433 All platforming games are Mario's children. Zelda is the blueprint for literally any adventure game. And Metroid literally has a genre named after it along with it's offspring. Metroidvania which spawned the souls genre.
@@Noel-b5sZelda is just a colossal cave adventure love letter. Legitimately.
I'm glad you mentioned Mega Man X for this essay. You Sir, are true gamer.
Metroid Prime is a good example of a 3D metroidvania which depends on tools for progression as much as a 2D game. Also it’s a fantastic franchise
The "interconnected" part of metroidvanias is an illusion, the rooms are individual worlds separated by loading screens, and for the most part are still linear but with backtracking, there is no level scaling in most metroidvanias so there will always be a recommended path from easiest boss to hardest boss, there are so many systems in metroidvanias, it's clever, it gives you the illusion of non- linear and interconnected but neither is true
You did an amazingly good job with this video hitting all the great points of the metroidvania genre and referencing some of my favorite games like hollow knight, blasphemous, and tomb raider and future favorites like steelrising.
The age old comment in the internet is about dark souls and castlevania is; that dark souls became what 3D castlevanias should've been. We see similiar thing happening with palworld and pokemon.
I'd grown up with Castlevania, having played Castlevania 2 & 3 on the NES, Super Castlevania IV being one of my favorite SNES games and Castlevania 64 being the first game I'd ever pre-ordered...
Despite owning a Playstation before I did an N64, SotN initially flew under my radar, and I didn't pick it up until years after its release (imagine that it's the year 2000; the internet is still in its relative infancy, and a 14-year old wanders into your EB Games, skips the shelves, comes up to the counter and asks "Do you have Castlevania: Symphony of the Night on Playstation?"; the cashier literally asked me "We should... What made you come looking for this game?")
It became one of my favorite games of all time.
When Dark Souls came out, I'd heard vague praise surrounding the game at the pub; from what I gathered, it was very good and very challenging.
I eventually got around to trying it myself, and it became one of the only games I rage-quit less than 30 minutes in; a full-on uninstalled, "I'm never touching that again" situation.
... But something in my brain said "No, give it another shot."
So, a few days later, I was re-downloading the game on Steam... Once I dove back in and discovered a different (more forgiving) route from Firelink Shrine, it all started to click.
Once it all did, the very first thought that popped into my head was, literally, "This is so cool; it's like a really intense, 3D incarnation of a Metroidvania."
Nice video, very insightful. Good to know all this history that I missed out on.
The funny thing about Hollow Knight is that the devs stated they haven't even played either Dark Souls or Metroid games at all. Their main inspirations were Zelda and Faxanadu. They themselves don't even label the game as metroidvania, they call it an action platformer. And yet the game is hailed as probably the best metroidvania.
Hype. Another banger!
🤘🏻🔥🔥
I've always said that Souls was a Metroidvania. Thank you.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed a lot of same elements in between these two genres, metroidvania & souls-like games. Which is why these two genres are often being mixed in the new indie titles & modern gamers can’t really tell which one is a true metroidvania, a souls-like or a little bit of both. There’s is one clear distinct difference though, aside from the difficulty, which is enemies spawn when you enter the next room and back to the previous room in order for you to farm gold/exp while souls-like doesn’t spawn enemies unless you rest in a save point.
My first Metroid game was AM2R and I loved it. I went looking for similar games and someone recommended “Dark Souls” for its world design/layout. At the time I thought DS was just that super hard game that masochists played, but I looked into it anyway. Changed my gaming life forever.
I love to see it*
I feel like soulsborn games would exist after all metroid and castlevania were made without the inspiration of metroidvania games because humans can create things by themselves.
brilliant video!
How pong inspired call of duty and possibly invented first person shooters
CV: Bloodlines and Dracula X were between Rondo and Symphony.
Oh nice, a video about the genre's origins. I can't wait for the inevitable video on Fromsoft's Kingsfield series. Also the influences of analog games cited by Miyazaki like Dragon Pass or Fighting Fantasy could make a good video if there's enough interviews and examples to go off of.
on the mention of Chrono Trigger you could also add up the different endings in the game depending of what you do (well in Chrono Trigger case was mostly related to when you beat Lavos.)
Zelda 1 had NG+ in the form of "second quest" where all the item and dungeon locations are different.
Fair enough, I like to think Chrono Trigger was still a big influence but like I said I’ll get to Zelda in a future video
Great video that mirror my impressions of souls games after playing games from both franchises! The level design, invisible, breakable walls, shortcuts, the "door doesn't open from this side" stuff.
Souls combats to me feel like a blend of classic Castlevanias (the linear ones that came prior to Symphony of the Night), and Monster Hunter (albeit more simplified and straightforward), namely things such as getting staggered and temporarily lose control of your character, non-cancellable animations that force the player to learn the enemies moveset and when to attack, proper positioning, getting attack near ledges could end up in death from falling down..
Also Simon's Quest (1987) was one of the first games to implement toxic swamps that slow down your character's movement! And some CV's and Monster Hunter first came with mechanics that boost your damage at low HP, Soma has a ring that gives you massive poise (Havel Ring anyone?), and like Monster Hunter, in DS1 you can cut off the tail of certain monsters to obtain weapons :D (and until DS3 came out, in souls games you also had to stand still in order to heal yourself and the animation was non-cancellable!).
And I suspect that the alluring skull mechanics was inspired by the killer down soul ability From Aria of Sorrow.
I don't really think souls-like is a genre of its own, it's just a collection of ideas from Metroidvainia, Mega Man and Zelda with some other ideas mixed in there. oh they also take from roguelikes
What an incredible video, I had no clue about the inspiration of Metriodvania in Souls game..
Unless you've never played a Metroidvania Castlevania game before the differences are very obvious.
Been waiting for this video for a long time man
Thank you for watching it! Consider sharing it to help its reach 🤘🏻🔥
Keep up the hard work brother. You're doing great. Love the content
Thank you, bummer this video isn’t doing well but I am still proud of it
is the Zelda video out? I'd love to hear a documentary on the Zelda influences in Dark Souls
Honestly it's like someone asking when Skyrim 2 is coming out. I've been playing games since the 90s and when I played demon souls back when it came out on PS3 I realized the similarities to metrovania titles lol soon after dark souls came out and people didn't even know demon souls even existed. It's unreal how many people I had to explain to that dark souls wasn't the first souls game.
Good video, however I’m pretty sure he said it was ico, and shadow of the colossus that was his inspiration, and as well as old mid evil stories that he couldn’t translate very well. Which does explain how he writes his stories. If you want to talk about level design, sure, that can be inspired by sotn, but everything else is a different inspiration entirely.
Great video! Last faith looks more like Bloodborne done as Blasphemous imo
you could say, they are the CastleVania's of soulsborne
i miss those type f videos you used to do
None shaped the series like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, no Ico no Miyazaki.
Pretty sure the Souls games were based on the "Kings Field" series.
Which doesnt precluding From from stealing ideas from other sources such as CV/Metroid/Zelda/Monster Hunter/Berserk
@@wallacesousuke1433 Stealing? That doesn't even exist in the world of video games. Unless you also believe in "cultural appropriation".
@@niemand7811 unless a game copies something from Souls games, than it becomes a souls clone, right fangirl?
That is what we call a legacy.
Castlvania 64 seriously look like 64 bit Bloodborn demake
For me the big leap that Soulsborne made was allowing the failure state to be a part of the world, a thing that happens and you move forward from, not just as a player, but your character also deals with it.
I wish the phrase. "The dark souls of..." used this mechanic as their comparison. Think of a world where the phrase: "dark souls of racing games" would mean that losing a race happens in the game and you dont restart or save scum, you just have to go upgrade and practice to return and beat that opponent.
I always thought Metroidvanias were an ancestor to Soulslikes given that a big separation point between the two consists in the jump to 3rd dimension with a heavy focus on combat, just needed the time for the right game to nail it to the point it worked for real but in a distant way from fast paced pure action games. And sounding cool enough to name the genre itself 😂
(I know 3d metroidvanias do exist but they keep combat and navigation/platforming balanced.)
I didn't do this on purpose but I always wondered why the 2 genres I enjoyed the most were metroidvanias and soulsborne/souls like, and I'll also throw in roguelikes/roguelites, maybe it's because of the challenge of these 3 genres but I fell out of love with traditional RPGs because of a lack of challenge
I have aways said that DS1 gave me the feeling of SotN in 3D.
Blasphemous was soo good 🔥
A very fun game that I should replay since they updated it
Actually, Dark soul also inspire from Berserk.
Yes both metrovania mix Berserk.
Babe wake up he posted
I hope you enjoy the video!
Play a Castlevania in Hardmode and that is 2D DarkSouls
Outstanding video xD
Thank you for watching, please consider sharing it to expand its reach since it’s not doing too hot right now but I’m still proud of it
To me Aria and Dawn of Sorrow is the best Castlevania, but yeah, Symphony Started it all.
Order of Ecclesia >>>>
@@wallacesousuke1433 I love it too, I'd put it over Aria, but below Dawn actually. I just don't recommend it to people who haven't player those two. And it's very sad that it was the last one in the series(well 2D series anyway). Though there was that multiplayer one I still haven't played, Harmony of despair I think.
@@ivankovachev8835 I was just joking, OoE is my favorite but not by much, Aria is excellent but I wish it got remake with better graphics, content and upped difficulty. Dawn is cool too but I honestly didnt enjoy it as much
@@wallacesousuke1433 To me Down was an improved Aria in every way, except the story, which isn't the main focus of these games by a long shot. Weapons, systems, progression, level design, the quality and smoothness of the mechanics, it was great. And it made sense, since it was a DS game and not a GBA game.
I would love for them to remake, and I mean properly remake them, not just copy-paste with better graphics and some minor additions and changes for the switch and other systems.
@@ivankovachev8835 many people only focus on dawn of sorrow's mistakes like the touchscreen gimmick or the excessive grind to get strong souls, but to me dawn have the most balanced combat in the series making every type of weapon and most souls feel strong and fun to use, if aria and dawn both have a remake in a 3d enviroment they would be considered the best and popular castlevania since Sotn.
Konami has so many good IPs that are just rotting away cause they couldn't care less about them atleast the spirit of castlevania lives on in the soulslike genre.
Konami should sell to Sony imo
@@EndymionTv Atleast it'll lead to something rather than franchises like silent hill, metal gear and castlevania just sitting there and fading into obscurity these games deserve to be preserved.
This is a natural mental path progression of why I grew up playing castlevania and fell in love with souls games.
But soulsborne don't fuck with 3D platform jumping which is the best thing they removed.
Until Sekiro & Elden Ring brought it back!
@@EndymionTv true. Didn't play Shadows Die Twice due to my very large backlog of what I call Hard R RPGs. Since it's an action adventure game with platform elements I don't see me getting around to a carpal tunnel franchise any time soon.
Elden Ring was meh. I enjoyed it far less to any other souls for some reason. It's still considerably better than most games out there.
@@CobaltContrast Sekiro imo is better than Elden Ring
Great video! I really enjoyed it, you always upload awesome videos. Unrelated question, Elden Ring dlc is rumored to be revealed at the Tokyo Game Show this weekend, what would you like to see in Elden Ring dlc?
Is that right? Well let’s hope it does. I mean the obvious answer is Miquella DLC. So I’m hoping they do that but whatever they do I hope it’s more legacy dungeon design wise than just open world stuff imo
@@EndymionTv I agree, I would like a series of interconnected legacy dungeons with 4-5 bosses. If they do an open world setting, maybe the size of the weeping peninsula.
Now stop, wait a minute!
You've started your video with Symphony of the Night, the glaring example of the metroidvania game in the series (not the first per se 'cause there was not only Simon's Quest for NES you've mentioned but also the version of the original game for MSX which was MUCH CLOSER to the Symphony of the Night in it's gameplay choices) but in that interview (at 3:19) Igarashi was talking NOT about SotN but the PREVIOUS games in the series, obviously. So the question is are you talking about the metroidvania (i.e. Symphony of the Night and beyond) or the Castlevania in general?
I mean, everybody by this point know what the term "NINTENDO hard" means and it has nothing to do with any particular genre or game series. It was simply the style at the time (and funny enough, it was more like that in US, not in Japan where those games came from in the first place).
In other words, that early part doesn't make any sense, even though I'm completely agree that Demon/Dark Souls/Bloodborn has a certain Castlevania vibe and that's good)) My comment is more about the structure of your script, just so you know.
The problem with both metroidvanias and souls games is there is so much gate keeping and elitism in both communities that no developer can innovate and move the genres forward without gate keepers considering them to be not in the genre, some of the best metroidvanias are either considered metroidvania lites or just 2d platformers even tho they have 90% of the mechanics
And now i want to play Sotn again.
Do it! It’s remastered now too with trophies
@@EndymionTv yeah I already finished it on ps4 with that amazing bundle hahahaa
I know SOTN very well ( I can complete it 200 % in my sleep),however I have never played a Souls game except for 1 or 2 hours.
So I can't tell who influenced who.All I can tell is the "connected world and linearity" are bs.The so called non-linearity of SOTN is pretty much an illusion.
Great video, but you focus on Sotn to much, the original Castlvania trilogy all ready has slow metodical gameplay wich souls is take inspiration from.
18:01 what boss was this?
It's from Strangers of Paradise, made by the creators of Nioh and Ninja Gaiden
@@wallacesousuke1433 I've been meaning to play this game for so long.
@@ivankovachev8835 I prefer Nioh to it but it can be fun too :D
Also, you should give some credit to Fromsoft for allowing Miyazaki to make his vision a reality without that the souls series won't be a thing but would be not more than a canceled project.
I give credit where it’s warranted. Obviously Miyazaki is instrumental in all of this, without him we have no Souls
Sad that this happened, souls games should have never happened
@@wallacesousuke1433 why do I recognize this name? I'm pretty sure it was from a soulsborne music discussion if so I know you are capping hard rn.
@@ducky4605 From's impact in the industry has been nothing but negative, be it for holding back progress, teaching other devs that you can be lazy and still profit hard and from all of the lame "souls-like" shovelware it has helped spawn.. (only Nioh was a positive thing amid this shitty trend but that's cuz it's barely a souls-like)
@@wallacesousuke1433 I think like any sports game has already shown that to a great degree. I guess you were just a troll huh?
Nice
Haven't played Hollow Knight and I do some day intend to play it... it's truer to old castlevania games. From what I understand is that it's not a hard R RPG. I need a better phrase to describe the fact that it doesn't have a leveling system that castlevania SotN.
Hollow Knight isn’t an RPG, it’s very much an action adventure game. All your upgrades are found or bought, there’s no skill tree or anything. Give it a try
@@EndymionTv some day some day. I just have so many RPGs in front of it. All my peers say how great it is.
Hollow Knight is actually much more metroid than castlevania or even dark souls but you should definitely play it anyway.
I wanna point out a connection I think most people miss, but Order of Ecclesia's MP gauge combined with their sigil system actually functions exactly like the stamina bar from Souls games.
I wish I included that but I played that so long ago I obviously forgot. I do remember that game being really hard in the beginning and then it got stupid easy like halfway through tho
The stamina bar and most of the combat in From games was most certainly inspired by Monster Hunter
I thought it was inspired by the manga berserk tho.
Ofc it was, from an artistical standpoint, but level design and combat have tons of similarities with Castlevania, Metroid and Monster Hunter
@@wallacesousuke1433 Not even close. Gameplay wise Dark Souls for an example has more in common with Diablo, Medievil and Nightmare Creatures.
@@niemand7811 🤣
I don't think Castlevania is explicitly the inspiration for souls borne games. I don't get the feeling.
Yes, metroidvania influence is present, but to say (paraphrasing:) "Castlevania has big wolfes, so its souls borne inspiration" is a big meh..
It's ONE of the many sources they ripped off ideas from
Yeah, i can see you never played any castlevania
How many times have you fought death in any Castlevania game
@@Emoyo have you played older games in general? This argument is bulshit. Oh look, you die often in super mario so its a souls like?
@@lonelySires in Castlevania Death itself IS A BOSS, bro lmao.
Miyazaki has stated a lot that he is a fan of Berserk. Berserk is refrenced a LOT in many of his games of Soulsborne, and the Dragonslayer, Guts' iconic sword is just flat out featured in Elden Ring and in Dark Souls 3.
Artorias the Abysswalker using movesets and poses from Gut's Berserker Armor, the darksign being a brand like feature that appears on people is a reference to the Brand of Sacrifice, Rapidfire Crossbows are featured in both the Souls games and is used by Guts, the wheel skeletons in DS3 are blatant references to the undead wheel skeletons in Berserk, the red eye orb is a direct reference to the Crimson Behelit, the Taurus Demon is a nod to Noseratu Zodd with his design, Man Serpents are a reference to the Snake Lord apostle, Pinwheel is a reference to The Deific Image, The Moonlight Butterfly is a reference to Rosine the apostle, Andre of Astora looks very similar to Godo the Blacksmith aka the guy that made The Dragonslayer, the Iconic Onion Knight Siegmeyer's armor is a nod to Basuzo's armor from the golden age arc of Berserk, the Erdtree is a giant glowing refrence to the World Spiral Tree, the swords on the hill that provide exposition in elden ring are nods to Berserks "Hill of Swords", and many many more references.
While Castlevania may have had a smidge of inspiration for Miyazaki, but we would all be lying to ourselves as Souls fans if we pretended the legendary and late Kentaro Mirua and his equally legendary Berserk IP had nothing to do with Dark Souls. Berserk is, has been and always will be the REAL reason Soulsborne exists.
yes everyone knows this but thats not really his point, he could have featured all these designs inspired by berserk in any type/style of game, he is saying that soulsborne games play they way they do because of metroidvania, souls games play exactly like a 3d sotn would
The atmosphere, art direction and tons of ripped-off characters and enemies are obviously taken from Berserk but level design and many gameplay elements are clearly stolen from CV games and Monster Hunter..
And funny enough, it seems that Miura himself took some inspiration from CV, as seen in that sphere of corpses that clearly resembles the Legion from CV