I actually almost threw up recording that one scene. You're welcome. Build info: wiki.blackthum... Socials: Instagram: / blackthumb.tv TikTok: / blackthumb.tv Website: blackthumb.tv/
Today I have learned the following: Why people use corn juice How a flex fuel sensor works How air and fuel combination works with different fuel types (Here in Norway we mostly only have '95 and '98) Santa isn't real Easter Bunny isn't real Tooth Fairy is real And that I am adopted. 10/10 would watch again
I have a 2005 Dodge Neon. I've been running E85 in it for almost a year now with no problems. The only thing I did was swap out the injectors with ones from a Ford Mustang that have a 25 percent greater flow rate. The computer did the rest, without a tune.
I'd love to see the computers learning values. Also, have you ever had to put 93 in due to lack of E85 in the area? We have E85 in most parts of this area, so not a huge risk to go corn-only here, but those long trips would be sketchy.
@@BlackthumbTV I have added a couple gallons of regular 87 gasoline a few times when I was running low and wasn't close to an E85 station. It ran fine and I actually couldn't really tell a difference. It probably just ran a little rich. For long trips, I run the tank down to less than a gallon and swap the stock injectors back in. Then I fill up with 87 gasoline and disconnect the battery to reset the computer. I did this before a 500 mile road trip during which I used 87 gas exclusively. I don't think the stock computer advances the timing when the E85 is added, so I don't think using regular 87 after using the E85 has any effect on predetonation (knock).
I tried E85 in my Mercedes, not into an empty tank though, i think there was like 60-65% ethanol in the tank. Ran just fine, no misfires or overheating or anything like that. Didn't even feel like there was a lack of power.
Fun fact, Amazon sells e85 ethanol distillation systems so you can make your own fuel. Another fun fact, ethanol fuel was founded by Henry Ford which he called gasohol and every Ford vehicle till 1974 was designed to run on it. Ford was paid by oil companies to run vehicles on gasoline. But before gas stations dotted the maps people made their fuel at home with Ford's fractional distillation system. Amazon also sells e85 conversion kits for most vehicles. Enjoy your freedom from the pump!
This is my fix for cars away from cars. I gound you while i was on vacation and not able to be home driving/wrenching on my own car. Solid content, information is easy to understand even through the complexity of the topics. Seriosuly, i appreciate these videos so much!
I absolutely love your videos, I attended uti and was very dedicated to learning as much as possible. You are a better teacher than lots of those guys, and I really enjoy your style. I recommend your channel to all my buddies when they ask me about this kinda stuff
What where typical limits before OBD2? Old GM vehicles had variables called "block learn" and "integrator", both from 0 to 255, with 128 being the target fuel trim. Does that mean that 0 to 128 only accounts for 0 to 15% richening change in lambda/fuel injector pulse width?
13-17 kia soul has factory wideband and does not give a shit, factory lsu4.9 will add tons of fuel quickly and then retain it in long term no issue, only time you might notice is freezing weather cold starts when it does not have enough to crank, but long crank and itll fire and adjust again very quickly. just some comments from a casual observer on a daily not a stand alone boi
many many other cars might be exactly like this, just wanted to give you first hand experience from someone "rolling with my shit off safety" (kinda sorta not, because fuel trims with wideband factory)
This is quite interesting! I know you play with factory ECUs a lot. Do your tools let you inspect current learned values? I'd love to see the data the factory ECU is learning. One of my favorite things about cars is seeing data logs! I just looked up virtual flex and that's nuts, must suck to tune around without knowing it's on!
@@BlackthumbTVanother good example is the 2014 Camry se. Very very adaptable factory ECU. Frankenstein motorwerks has managed to take it from 170 to 210 up with no tune just intake and exhaust. Still ran correct afr.
I refuse to run e85 now , I ran it 5yr ago when its price was equal to the mileage loss you'd get but now ,it's the same price dang near as 87oct gas , tgats just dumb and the govt ripping us off. When e85 1st was hitting the pumps , it was less than half the cost of 87oct
Have drivning volvo 245, volvo 945 bothe turbo and na, renault clio etc on 100% e85. Just put a cheep chinese btr and adjusted it to little higher then original pressure
ALL spark-ignited internal combustion engine vehicles can use E85, regardless of whether they are flex fuel or not. You may not want to fill your tank with E85 if your vehicles is not flex fuel, but you can definitely splash blend something approximating E30 to E50. You will save a significant amount on each gallon of E85 compared to E0 or E10, and you will get equal or better MPG.
E85 can contaminate your oil, and you'll need to change your oil waaay more often. Also, E85 can cause serious fuel system corrosion if the vehicle isn't designed for it.
I’ve been experimenting with blending E85 in E10 and had some success with it! During summer I always blend 50/50-60/40 E10-E85 respectively. No extra parts needed, no check engine lights, slightly cheaper to run, more power and most importantly: It’s greener lol
@@richarddesimone960 There are many good reasons to run Flex Fuel. Your comment does not give any good reasons to go against it. I could tell you don't dabble with flex fuel much. Flex fuel cars are still around by the way. People love flex fuel especially your bang for the buck type person.
@@richarddesimone960 "Flex fuel" gives you the option to run pure gasoline or mixed up to 85 percent. So why wouldnt you just setup for it, and use it when needed, like a track day or a spirited driving. Plus keeping the emissions low. Flex setups make it easy to adjust on the fly. By the way i have 30+ years of owning and operating a custom high performance and service shop. So I think I gotcha beat bud. But that honestly doesnt matter. Its what you know and how you apply it.
I used to run E85 in my 96 Lincoln Towncar. That car loved it. Engine light would come on for the lean code. But it wasn't that bad, aside from its higher octane rating, ethanol also burns cooler. And it's great for cleaning carbon from the valves, pistons and heads. Similar results running corn juice in the 2003 Chevy 1500 van and my 2016 Ford Flex. When it was time for annual state inspection just run it low and refill with normal gas and the light goes away. Yes, all 3 cars had improved power, all 100% stock.
I see a few common questions, so here's some answers! - E85 is better for performance engines as it has a ~105 octane rating. Research how octane rating effects high compression and boosted engines for more info. - E85, while technically getting "worse mileage", is still cheaper doller-per-mile than 93 (at least in my area) - E85 burns much cleaner than petrol meaning less carbon deposits, and even tends to clean existing carbon off engine internals. - The jury appears to still be out on whether or not it's "environmentally friendly" on the whole, I see sources on either side of the fence. - "IT RUNS FINE IN MY NON-FLEX CAR!": Some cars ECUs will learn around the additional fueling requirements different than others, this is an example of what can happen and how it can cause damage. Show me datalogs, then we can talk. None of this is new, this info has been around forever. All we do is show the literal data coming from the car in the real world and describe the potential ramifications. Not sure why some of you are trying to make this political, but take that crap back to Facebook (or whatever hole you crawled out of.) This is a low-buck performance car enthusiast channel, we don't do that here. Go outside.
i ran E85 on a Stock Citroen from the early 90s for quite a while, you need to slowly change over from normal fuel to E85 and back, if i quickly changed over it then went into limp mode and got the same issue as you did, i am guessing the ecu might be able to correct both long and short term fuel trim and thats why it's fine? I don't really know tbh, it just worked.
the regular gasoline lubricates the rubbers and casings of everything in the fuel system. stuff will start becoming brittle and cracking leading to shorts in things like the pump if you run e85 too many tanks before switching back to regular fuel. I like the idea of mixing the 2 getting the best of both worlds with low knock from e85 and lubrication/longevity of regular gas.
When running e85 or an Emix you need a tune most of you are already aware I'm sure. The big thing with runnjng more than say a e25 mix on a stock fuel system is going to cause potential misfires because the more ethanol you run the more fuel volume required for combustion, stock fuel systems typically the HPFP aren't meant to run usually beyond a e15 mix on a naturally aspirated all depends on the specs of the vehicle make and model, also another note you should never leave heavy e85 mixes just sitting in your car, it has alcohol and it seperates into water and leaves a gummy oil gunk mess if you dont frequently run higher octane fuel like 91 afterwards and run 2 tanks of regular fuel after your e85 mix, basically only run the e85 mixes when you are planning to race it or test it
My emissions were to high during the yearly inspection. Filled the tank up with e85 and passed. In the end i did replaced the lambda sensor but it was funny to look at the face of the mechanic when he looked at the numbers.
I put some in my Toyota Prius coming back from Virginia to New York. It was substantially lower priced than regular 87, so I pushed the button and filled my gas tank just to see what would happen. The answer is, nothing. I believe my fuel economy went down slightly, but the car ran 100% normal, cruise control set on 75, not so much as a hiccup. But I think on the long-term it would be a problem. At least that’s what I have been reading.
E85 isn't better for the environment though, it takes more energy to grow and harvest corn than the corn ethanol saves. It's also not anywhere near cheap, the government subsidizes it so heavily, (and corn in general) that they can afford to sell it at a loss. In fact, these corn subsidies are also why corn syrup is in so many foods. Normally corn syrup would be more expensive than sugar, but it is cheap as dirt, as it is a byproduct of the corn ethanol production process.
I E85 converted my old ford Sierra 2,0 DOHC. By simply opening upp the tamper seal on the fuel pressure regulator and was able to adjust it with an allen key untill it ran good on idle. I know thats the wrong way of doing it but it worked and passed the emissions test. Ran it for about 2 years like that untill someone stole it. Edit* im not saying you are wrong. Im just saying that i am a cheap ass and got the car for 200 dollars and didnt give a f if it blew upp. It was essentialy just an experiment because i could.
I would never put that in my classic. It's bad enough that the ethanol already in normal gas destroys my carburettor and fuel pump if I leave gas in there for storage (made the mistake exactly once).
Fun Fact: In Brazil, Ethanol and Gasoline are the norm of fuel. Diesel is only for trucks. Ethanol gives more power, but more consuption. The gasoline is the opposite. ALL Vehicles from after 2005 have Flex Fuel Capabilities. Great video to see how a normal car behaves with Alchohol. (In Brazil its made with Sugar Cane). The car with Flex Fuel can run in ANY mix of gasoline and Alchohol. But it has its downsides, as the engine is "bogged down" having to work with two fuels, and there's a saying that goes somewhat like this: Flex Fuel Engines are Engines that are made to run Ethanol, that are forced to run with Gasoline. There are engines that when running in 100% Sugar Cane it gives 5 hp's more! (its not insane but its quite a bit more power).
In 2003 VW Launched the Flex Fuel with the Gol G3 1.6 Power, and generating a whole new Flex Fuel ecosystem here. (In the late 70's and mid 80's when the fuel crisis came, we found out about the sugar cane fuel, and to prevent having no gas, vehices from that era, specially after 1976, were manofactured to run on Ethanol instead of Gasoline, with cars returning to gasoline in the mid 80's) Specially back then, the Ethanol vehicles needed special carburetors and fuel systems to handle the water on the Alchohol, that could corrode the normal carburators and rubber hoses.
I have an 09 Impala that is a glex fuel ready vehicle and I just stsrted having the issues starting when its cold due to the sensors thinking its starting out with more fuel than it actually is. If I press the gas pedal a little it starts right up which is a known issue with these vehicles and replacing my Idle control sensor or Cooland temp sensor should fix this issue in my case. My point is that even in vehicles that are E85 ready the CPU can have the same issues if a sensor starts to malfunction or the ECU cant properly detect which type or what mixture of fuel is actually in the tank.
I have 06 ford f150 with a yellow gas cap And I checked today with Ford. And they told me my truck's not compatible with E85. I've been running it in my truck for 3 months now. Why would they give you a Yellow gas cap with e? Eighteighty five on it, if you can't use that? And my truck ran a lot faster with it. And my truck ran good, but my check engine light came on with running to lean. But my conspiracy is ethanol is a lean fuel. It's alcohol so wtf
I Try that experiment on a 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 4.0 with over 400k miles it liked it started just fine except when it got below 40° you would have to mix it with 88 15% 50 mixed ran ok get around 2 mpg less
I personally break the law this is probably like the 10th E85 video I watched in past 2 days. Been wanting to modify my car, specifically my prius, for flex fuel for so long. I know it's doable, but to do it proper it's a project (for me) and there is no real value to doing it, I just want to!
It makes one wonder that if E85 produces cleaner emissions then why aren't all modern vehicles produced with flexfuel capability. It would have to be flexfuel since E85 isn't available everywhere. I'm installing a flexfuel kit on my Mustang this weekend in preparation for a supercharger. I've been told that I can run E85 without a supercharger but as you mentioned in your video I would need to upgrade the injectors regardless if I have a supercharger installed. Not sure if I need to upgrade the fuel pump for more flow just yet. I just replaced a defective fuel pump last summer - that sure was fun 🙄.
The BIGGEST problems running e85 in an AMERICAN unmodified engine is: A: the fuel lines: if they are neoprene lined you’re good there but most aren’t. B: e85 can pit the engine and that’s not a good thing C: fuel pump lubricity Remember the very first model t is e100 compliant. Henry ford envisioned a world of vehicles running on his heavily advertised “corn gas”.
I have run moonshine (that my DAD made) in a 72 Maverick- and it burned the wheels off-- later when we dismantled the engine for rebuild- it was clean as a whistle inside- NO carbon AT ALL. It was like racing fuel...for real!!!
People shit on the LS4 being a FWD LS engine but my Grand Prix GXP was one of the easiest cars to add Flex Fuel too I've ever worked on, the factory injectors and ecu are both compatible with a tune on a stock (for now) engine and all I needed to add was an Ethanol content sensor and it ran better than it ever did on 93, plus where I live e85 is readily available and 30%+ cheaper than 93 so it was saving me money too
I have an 01 Audi A4, it's been very modified. Plus I personally tuned it but I switched to E85 + methanol injection. This car uses lamda not AFR. So when I switched to E85 there was very little tuning involved. Honestly it probably would have ran fine without. This is after a much bigger than stock fuel system.
Love all the plot twists throughout the video, every single time I was about to write a comment addressing a caveat it was immediately addressed. Something that wasn't addressed though is that your stock fuel pump might be too weak to supply fuel to all injectors upon an upgrade, I've only seen this happen to really old cars which were due to have it replaced in the first place though.
Dude! I have never watched your show before but the very first impression I get of it was how cool the dude is this he would go great with Seth Rogen as his older brother! You remind me so much of him. Which I might add he's a great actor. Funny as all get out😂
The science behind this is Alcohol has 30% less power per given amount than gasoline plus is extremly hydroscopic and and a very srtong solvent so with some 1st grade math you can find how much power loss there is plus if the vehicle has rubber fuel lines and O rings it will destroy it also will ruin some fuel tank linings if mot designed for it
Ironically, it'd be easier to get a carb setup to run with E85 than a 90's or most 00's EFI. Bigger jets and less CFM. Of course, that fuel would be _really_ bad on the carb.
This is 100% true. It's kinda sad that we're so locked out of our own cars ECUs, so we can't just turn them to run on a different fuel real quick. Right to repair!
I use 50%+ E85 in my 2005 PT Cruiser GT (turbo motor). Been putting in E85 for a couple of years. So far, so good. (Had an 06 PT GT before that that I used E85). I do get a little less mileage to the tank vs. pure 93 octane dino gas, though. *edit - I'm also running a Diablo Sport tuner with the factory Diablo tune.
How would this apply to carburetors and tuning it to run Richer may be a stupid question but would this not mean it's going to burn just as inefficient due to it needing a high volume of fuel to burn rught
I’ve run a few tanks of e85 in a 95’ ej22 under a 96’ ej18 intake manifold and sensors and ECU. Idk if the fact I swapped it made any difference but it did it happily, mostly highway miles at like 3000-4000 rpm at like 80mph
i have a tune on 85 which is my primary tune but when i went to michigan they had no 85 and only 91 and i had to go to e like nothing in the take bc i could switch tunes wish i was pure fuel flex
I tried it once on a Carbureted 9.1 to 1 compression V8. It didn't work. The compression wasn't high enough, It was way down on power. The fuel hoses and any rubber - ish parts turned to mush or turned rock hard. I had to rebuild the carb internals and replace the mechanical fuel pump. What a mess. But it sure does smell Good !
Secrets and lies, don't follow the money, follow the pumps, see the line from the e-85 pump that goes to the gas station's restroom toilet? The gas station sells beer, people drink that beer and use the gas station's restroom, and I will leave the rest to your imagination.
Flex fuel vehicles are OK to run regular petrol gasoline or E85, including a mix of the two. You will get less "mileage" on corn, but it is cheaper. So you'd have to do the math to see which is cheaper at the end. Best of luck!
Takes a while for it to eat away at the file lines and filter. What you can do is do half and half. And don't use it on such an old ass vehicle. Any vehicle made 2005 and later can run it and it's computer can adjust for it.
Lets see you do it with a carburetor car and for you guys who say it will eat up the gas line back when alcohol was added to gas the line was made to handle it
I contend that you're wrong, and your use of a modified car with safety built into its maps confuses the issue, especially since I'm presuming you have a wideband O2 sensor. E85 screws up the loop. Because it is a more oxygenated fuel, there's more O2 being produced in combustion. This reads as "lean" condition because the computer can't tell O2 from the air vs oxygen from the fuel. So, the computer tries to dump more fuel into the system, actually running it *rich*, which only causes more O2 to read, and keeps looping this until the engine inevitably shuts off due to quenching the spark. Go on... Test that. If you can't chip tune your vehicle, you need to trick it into running correctly by either dumping more air into the intake, displacing air from the intake, or by tricking the O2 sensor into doing what you want.
The best way I can describe this to you is that O2 sensors don't sense air or fuel. They sense exhaust gasses and thus read independent of what blend of fuel you're running. They don't read in AFR, they actually read in Lambda and in fact are often called Lambda sensors. The ECU will sometimes display this in AFR, but that's just a simple math conversion. This isn't anything new, and this is all quite well documented. We just do a live demonstration in this video that shows what actually happens.
Hmmm... Such a layman's question from a person who has never tuned a car. Let's assume that we have everything factory, including the computer, and we want to make the cheapest possible conversion to E85. Knowing that 33% more fuel is needed, would it be enough to install injectors with 33% higher flow than the factory ones and the factory computer would handle it correctly?
If this is a commuter car with no power goals whatsoever, it MIGHT work, but probably not well. When switching out injectors one must remember that more than just the flow rate changes. Things like "dead time" and performance at different battery voltages can substantially change the way an injector performs, and all these are programmed into the ECU from the factory, specifically for the injectors the engine came with. Changing the injectors means the ECU has those parameters wrong and that's tough for the ECU to learn around, if not impossible. It's better to just re-tune the ECU with the new injector parameters as well. This still doesn't solve the problem in that you can't mix E85 and regular petrol, IE run true flex fuel.
Would be interesting to relate the 30% more fuel need for E85 vs the reduced cost of E85. Seeing you would get worse gas mileage running E85 for a car not designed for it ( regardless of of how "well" the engine runs )....seems overall to be a bad deal. I don't think E85 is fully 30% cheaper than normal gas to make it worthwhile.
In my area, it is indeed cheaper dollar-per-mile than 93 octane. My reason for running E85 is for performance, as it has a much higher octane rating at 105 which is necessary for many performance builds I do.
Ford said my truck's not compatible. But why do I have a yellow gas cap wtf I've been fueling up for 3 months ! And my truck ran the same I think it ran better faster and better mpg
Problem with running a standalone ECU, is emissions regulations. I live in a Nazi emission county in my state. If I replaced the stock ECU, I would fail the missions test, and not be able to renew my registration. The only real solution is to wait for the vehicle to hit 25 years of age which is about 10 years from now.
Today I have learned the following:
Why people use corn juice
How a flex fuel sensor works
How air and fuel combination works with different fuel types (Here in Norway we mostly only have '95 and '98)
Santa isn't real
Easter Bunny isn't real
Tooth Fairy is real
And that I am adopted.
10/10 would watch again
Always glad to help
This dude is pure gold! 🤣
Today years old when I found out I was adopted…
Peak automotive content 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
This is the truest comment on YT
Try burning one while watching 😂😂😂 pure gold, and the content itself is primo 👌
I have a 2005 Dodge Neon. I've been running E85 in it for almost a year now with no problems. The only thing I did was swap out the injectors with ones from a Ford Mustang that have a 25 percent greater flow rate. The computer did the rest, without a tune.
I'd love to see the computers learning values. Also, have you ever had to put 93 in due to lack of E85 in the area? We have E85 in most parts of this area, so not a huge risk to go corn-only here, but those long trips would be sketchy.
@@BlackthumbTV I have added a couple gallons of regular 87 gasoline a few times when I was running low and wasn't close to an E85 station. It ran fine and I actually couldn't really tell a difference. It probably just ran a little rich. For long trips, I run the tank down to less than a gallon and swap the stock injectors back in. Then I fill up with 87 gasoline and disconnect the battery to reset the computer. I did this before a 500 mile road trip during which I used 87 gas exclusively. I don't think the stock computer advances the timing when the E85 is added, so I don't think using regular 87 after using the E85 has any effect on predetonation (knock).
You not wrong I did the same thing in my Ford Focus and the check engine light went away
fellow neon owner
I tried E85 in my Mercedes, not into an empty tank though, i think there was like 60-65% ethanol in the tank.
Ran just fine, no misfires or overheating or anything like that. Didn't even feel like there was a lack of power.
Just watched a few of your videos in a row loved them all. Great content, goofy car comedy once again spot on. Keep being you.
Fun fact, Amazon sells e85 ethanol distillation systems so you can make your own fuel. Another fun fact, ethanol fuel was founded by Henry Ford which he called gasohol and every Ford vehicle till 1974 was designed to run on it. Ford was paid by oil companies to run vehicles on gasoline. But before gas stations dotted the maps people made their fuel at home with Ford's fractional distillation system. Amazon also sells e85 conversion kits for most vehicles. Enjoy your freedom from the pump!
BRO! This content is incredible. Keep it up dude. Great balance of silly and scientific
Should probably let people know e85 eats rubber and ruins all the seals in the engine….. maybe you didn’t know 😂
P0171 incoming!
Mine did that too.
This is my fix for cars away from cars. I gound you while i was on vacation and not able to be home driving/wrenching on my own car. Solid content, information is easy to understand even through the complexity of the topics. Seriosuly, i appreciate these videos so much!
I absolutely love your videos, I attended uti and was very dedicated to learning as much as possible. You are a better teacher than lots of those guys, and I really enjoy your style. I recommend your channel to all my buddies when they ask me about this kinda stuff
15% is the limit the epa sets for every North America ecu. That came with obd2 in 96. Every car on obd2 has to have a o2 before and after the cat.
What where typical limits before OBD2? Old GM vehicles had variables called "block learn" and "integrator", both from 0 to 255, with 128 being the target fuel trim. Does that mean that 0 to 128 only accounts for 0 to 15% richening change in lambda/fuel injector pulse width?
That shit felt targeted talking about my rusted out 350z 💀😭
13-17 kia soul has factory wideband and does not give a shit, factory lsu4.9 will add tons of fuel quickly and then retain it in long term no issue, only time you might notice is freezing weather cold starts when it does not have enough to crank, but long crank and itll fire and adjust again very quickly.
just some comments from a casual observer on a daily not a stand alone boi
many many other cars might be exactly like this, just wanted to give you first hand experience from someone "rolling with my shit off safety" (kinda sorta not, because fuel trims with wideband factory)
even more useless knowledge do you know what "virtual flex" is lol oh boi
This is quite interesting! I know you play with factory ECUs a lot. Do your tools let you inspect current learned values? I'd love to see the data the factory ECU is learning. One of my favorite things about cars is seeing data logs!
I just looked up virtual flex and that's nuts, must suck to tune around without knowing it's on!
@@BlackthumbTVanother good example is the 2014 Camry se. Very very adaptable factory ECU. Frankenstein motorwerks has managed to take it from 170 to 210 up with no tune just intake and exhaust. Still ran correct afr.
Thankyou for this, need to make an admission, I have just binge-watched your channel. You're welcome. Please continue with the brilliance 😁
I didn't realize that's all that FlexFuel was, and that you could upgrade an existing car to it. Thanks for real, bro!
I refuse to run e85 now , I ran it 5yr ago when its price was equal to the mileage loss you'd get but now ,it's the same price dang near as 87oct gas , tgats just dumb and the govt ripping us off. When e85 1st was hitting the pumps , it was less than half the cost of 87oct
Have drivning volvo 245, volvo 945 bothe turbo and na, renault clio etc on 100% e85. Just put a cheep chinese btr and adjusted it to little higher then original pressure
ALL spark-ignited internal combustion engine vehicles can use E85, regardless of whether they are flex fuel or not. You may not want to fill your tank with E85 if your vehicles is not flex fuel, but you can definitely splash blend something approximating E30 to E50. You will save a significant amount on each gallon of E85 compared to E0 or E10, and you will get equal or better MPG.
E85 has awful fuel economy. That’s a big downside.
Well of course, he just mentioned it uses 33% extra fuel.
No one running E85 is using it for its fuel efficiency
E85 can contaminate your oil, and you'll need to change your oil waaay more often. Also, E85 can cause serious fuel system corrosion if the vehicle isn't designed for it.
I’ve been experimenting with blending E85 in E10 and had some success with it!
During summer I always blend 50/50-60/40 E10-E85 respectively. No extra parts needed, no check engine lights, slightly cheaper to run, more power and most importantly: It’s greener lol
What kind of car/truck?
@@richarddesimone960if your car has a turbo it sure does. A significant hp gain!!
@@richarddesimone960 There are many good reasons to run Flex Fuel. Your comment does not give any good reasons to go against it. I could tell you don't dabble with flex fuel much. Flex fuel cars are still around by the way. People love flex fuel especially your bang for the buck type person.
@@richarddesimone960 "Flex fuel" gives you the option to run pure gasoline or mixed up to 85 percent. So why wouldnt you just setup for it, and use it when needed, like a track day or a spirited driving. Plus keeping the emissions low. Flex setups make it easy to adjust on the fly. By the way i have 30+ years of owning and operating a custom high performance and service shop. So I think I gotcha beat bud. But that honestly doesnt matter. Its what you know and how you apply it.
@@ahhasonI refuse to believe a business owner would make their profile picture straight wax 😂😂
Some info here is not completely accurate.. but a good video.
This is a terrific video that clearly lays out the details of converting to E85 or flex fueling.
Can’t believe youre not more popular man 😂 got 10x more knowledge than every other car youtuber. I learn a little something every vid
If you've ever watched gaming youtube channels, Blackthumb is the GeneralSam of cartubers lol
I had a 96 Toyota truck and ran e85 in it all the time ran just fine!!! 🤷♂️
Now how would E85 affect a Volvo S60 from 2001 with BSR chip tuning for 50 more horses and fuel economy.
Most importantly upgrade your rubber fuel lines if it's and older car .
i noticed a 50% regular gas plus 50 % e85 gives more performance with only sacrificing some mileage
I remember I accidentally put e85 in a Chevy Corsica and it blew a spark plug out of the head from running so lean.
That’s why you can typically expect 2 to 3 miles per gallon less on the 85. So it really doesn’t save you any money by running only E 85.
Dollar per mile it's cheaper than 93 in my area, and it's 105 octane rating makes it extremely worth it.
I used to run E85 in my 96 Lincoln Towncar. That car loved it. Engine light would come on for the lean code. But it wasn't that bad, aside from its higher octane rating, ethanol also burns cooler. And it's great for cleaning carbon from the valves, pistons and heads.
Similar results running corn juice in the 2003 Chevy 1500 van and my 2016 Ford Flex. When it was time for annual state inspection just run it low and refill with normal gas and the light goes away.
Yes, all 3 cars had improved power, all 100% stock.
I see a few common questions, so here's some answers!
- E85 is better for performance engines as it has a ~105 octane rating. Research how octane rating effects high compression and boosted engines for more info.
- E85, while technically getting "worse mileage", is still cheaper doller-per-mile than 93 (at least in my area)
- E85 burns much cleaner than petrol meaning less carbon deposits, and even tends to clean existing carbon off engine internals.
- The jury appears to still be out on whether or not it's "environmentally friendly" on the whole, I see sources on either side of the fence.
- "IT RUNS FINE IN MY NON-FLEX CAR!": Some cars ECUs will learn around the additional fueling requirements different than others, this is an example of what can happen and how it can cause damage. Show me datalogs, then we can talk.
None of this is new, this info has been around forever. All we do is show the literal data coming from the car in the real world and describe the potential ramifications.
Not sure why some of you are trying to make this political, but take that crap back to Facebook (or whatever hole you crawled out of.) This is a low-buck performance car enthusiast channel, we don't do that here. Go outside.
Dayum boy
Hella fun this guy
i ran E85 on a Stock Citroen from the early 90s for quite a while, you need to slowly change over from normal fuel to E85 and back, if i quickly changed over it then went into limp mode and got the same issue as you did, i am guessing the ecu might be able to correct both long and short term fuel trim and thats why it's fine? I don't really know tbh, it just worked.
the regular gasoline lubricates the rubbers and casings of everything in the fuel system. stuff will start becoming brittle and cracking leading to shorts in things like the pump if you run e85 too many tanks before switching back to regular fuel. I like the idea of mixing the 2 getting the best of both worlds with low knock from e85 and lubrication/longevity of regular gas.
When running e85 or an Emix you need a tune most of you are already aware I'm sure. The big thing with runnjng more than say a e25 mix on a stock fuel system is going to cause potential misfires because the more ethanol you run the more fuel volume required for combustion, stock fuel systems typically the HPFP aren't meant to run usually beyond a e15 mix on a naturally aspirated all depends on the specs of the vehicle make and model, also another note you should never leave heavy e85 mixes just sitting in your car, it has alcohol and it seperates into water and leaves a gummy oil gunk mess if you dont frequently run higher octane fuel like 91 afterwards and run 2 tanks of regular fuel after your e85 mix, basically only run the e85 mixes when you are planning to race it or test it
My emissions were to high during the yearly inspection. Filled the tank up with e85 and passed. In the end i did replaced the lambda sensor but it was funny to look at the face of the mechanic when he looked at the numbers.
I put some in my Toyota Prius coming back from Virginia to New York. It was substantially lower priced than regular 87, so I pushed the button and filled my gas tank just to see what would happen. The answer is, nothing. I believe my fuel economy went down slightly, but the car ran 100% normal, cruise control set on 75, not so much as a hiccup. But I think on the long-term it would be a problem. At least that’s what I have been reading.
E85 isn't better for the environment though, it takes more energy to grow and harvest corn than the corn ethanol saves. It's also not anywhere near cheap, the government subsidizes it so heavily, (and corn in general) that they can afford to sell it at a loss. In fact, these corn subsidies are also why corn syrup is in so many foods. Normally corn syrup would be more expensive than sugar, but it is cheap as dirt, as it is a byproduct of the corn ethanol production process.
I E85 converted my old ford Sierra 2,0 DOHC. By simply opening upp the tamper seal on the fuel pressure regulator and was able to adjust it with an allen key untill it ran good on idle.
I know thats the wrong way of doing it but it worked and passed the emissions test.
Ran it for about 2 years like that untill someone stole it.
Edit* im not saying you are wrong. Im just saying that i am a cheap ass and got the car for 200 dollars and didnt give a f if it blew upp. It was essentialy just an experiment because i could.
I would never put that in my classic. It's bad enough that the ethanol already in normal gas destroys my carburettor and fuel pump if I leave gas in there for storage (made the mistake exactly once).
Fun Fact: In Brazil, Ethanol and Gasoline are the norm of fuel. Diesel is only for trucks. Ethanol gives more power, but more consuption. The gasoline is the opposite. ALL Vehicles from after 2005 have Flex Fuel Capabilities. Great video to see how a normal car behaves with Alchohol. (In Brazil its made with Sugar Cane). The car with Flex Fuel can run in ANY mix of gasoline and Alchohol. But it has its downsides, as the engine is "bogged down" having to work with two fuels, and there's a saying that goes somewhat like this: Flex Fuel Engines are Engines that are made to run Ethanol, that are forced to run with Gasoline. There are engines that when running in 100% Sugar Cane it gives 5 hp's more! (its not insane but its quite a bit more power).
In 2003 VW Launched the Flex Fuel with the Gol G3 1.6 Power, and generating a whole new Flex Fuel ecosystem here. (In the late 70's and mid 80's when the fuel crisis came, we found out about the sugar cane fuel, and to prevent having no gas, vehices from that era, specially after 1976, were manofactured to run on Ethanol instead of Gasoline, with cars returning to gasoline in the mid 80's) Specially back then, the Ethanol vehicles needed special carburetors and fuel systems to handle the water on the Alchohol, that could corrode the normal carburators and rubber hoses.
This super cool info, thanks for sharing! Vai Brasil!
I have an 09 Impala that is a glex fuel ready vehicle and I just stsrted having the issues starting when its cold due to the sensors thinking its starting out with more fuel than it actually is. If I press the gas pedal a little it starts right up which is a known issue with these vehicles and replacing my Idle control sensor or Cooland temp sensor should fix this issue in my case. My point is that even in vehicles that are E85 ready the CPU can have the same issues if a sensor starts to malfunction or the ECU cant properly detect which type or what mixture of fuel is actually in the tank.
06:00 was wondering how you were getting the table stats!!
As a 2002 Subaru Legacy Outback owner.... I love you ❤❤❤(and want to see what happens to this car) 🤣🤣
I have 06 ford f150 with a yellow gas cap And I checked today with Ford. And they told me my truck's not compatible with E85. I've been running it in my truck for 3 months now. Why would they give you a Yellow gas cap with e? Eighteighty five on it, if you can't use that? And my truck ran a lot faster with it. And my truck ran good, but my check engine light came on with running to lean. But my conspiracy is ethanol is a lean fuel. It's alcohol so wtf
I Try that experiment on a 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 4.0 with over 400k miles
it liked it started just fine except when it got below 40° you would have to mix it with 88 15% 50 mixed ran ok get around 2 mpg less
I personally break the law
this is probably like the 10th E85 video I watched in past 2 days. Been wanting to modify my car, specifically my prius, for flex fuel for so long. I know it's doable, but to do it proper it's a project (for me) and there is no real value to doing it, I just want to!
It makes one wonder that if E85 produces cleaner emissions then why aren't all modern vehicles produced with flexfuel capability. It would have to be flexfuel since E85 isn't available everywhere. I'm installing a flexfuel kit on my Mustang this weekend in preparation for a supercharger. I've been told that I can run E85 without a supercharger but as you mentioned in your video I would need to upgrade the injectors regardless if I have a supercharger installed. Not sure if I need to upgrade the fuel pump for more flow just yet. I just replaced a defective fuel pump last summer - that sure was fun 🙄.
The BIGGEST problems running e85 in an AMERICAN unmodified engine is:
A: the fuel lines: if they are neoprene lined you’re good there but most aren’t.
B: e85 can pit the engine and that’s not a good thing
C: fuel pump lubricity
Remember the very first model t is e100 compliant. Henry ford envisioned a world of vehicles running on his heavily advertised “corn gas”.
I was like...this dude just swapped a fresh motor to grenade it with e85? no way haha
My concern with E85 is rubber parts from the tank to the exhaust..
Isn’t E85 more damaging to standard fuel designed rubber components?
Ethanol can make rubber and plastic brittle if not designed to handle it.
I have run moonshine (that my DAD made) in a 72 Maverick- and it burned the wheels off-- later when we dismantled the engine for rebuild- it was clean as a whistle inside- NO carbon AT ALL. It was like racing fuel...for real!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA my actual reaction to my CEL on WOT
HEEEEYAWWWW lets give her hell
0_0 OH SHIT WHYD THE FUCKING CHECK ENGINE LIGHT JUST COME ON
People shit on the LS4 being a FWD LS engine but my Grand Prix GXP was one of the easiest cars to add Flex Fuel too I've ever worked on, the factory injectors and ecu are both compatible with a tune on a stock (for now) engine and all I needed to add was an Ethanol content sensor and it ran better than it ever did on 93, plus where I live e85 is readily available and 30%+ cheaper than 93 so it was saving me money too
All of these lies have warped my fragile little mind! 😢😢😅😂
P.s. I actually AM adopted! Ha HAA! The tables have turned and now I have tricked you!😈
Ur the only person other than me and my friends that say johnson
My '87 Nissan Hardbody ran like a Scalded Dog for once with a tank of E85. But the fuel pump soon died. E85's a little dry.😂
I have an 01 Audi A4, it's been very modified. Plus I personally tuned it but I switched to E85 + methanol injection. This car uses lamda not AFR. So when I switched to E85 there was very little tuning involved. Honestly it probably would have ran fine without. This is after a much bigger than stock fuel system.
Instead of more fuel, what if you injected propane into the intake to prevent the engine from going lean?
Love all the plot twists throughout the video, every single time I was about to write a comment addressing a caveat it was immediately addressed. Something that wasn't addressed though is that your stock fuel pump might be too weak to supply fuel to all injectors upon an upgrade, I've only seen this happen to really old cars which were due to have it replaced in the first place though.
Dude! I have never watched your show before but the very first impression I get of it was how cool the dude is this he would go great with Seth Rogen as his older brother! You remind me so much of him. Which I might add he's a great actor. Funny as all get out😂
I got e85 once and well... car ran like shyt... but ran and drove just fine...
The science behind this is Alcohol has 30% less power per given amount than gasoline plus is extremly hydroscopic and and a very srtong solvent so with some 1st grade math you can find how much power loss there is plus if the vehicle has rubber fuel lines and O rings it will destroy it also will ruin some fuel tank linings if mot designed for it
Better than donut 👌🏻
What i learned today: Seth Rogan lies just as much as Joe Biden..lol
I always wondered if I was adopted. Thanks for clearing that up.
i know this is an old video but, who the hell says "lahmda?" It's pronounced "lamb-da."
Im betting old cars with no ECU would prolly run E85 just fine with some rejetting.
*SOME* factory ECM's can utilize a flex fuel sensor, and be (relatively) easily tuned, to run on any blend of ethanol up to 85%.
Ironically, it'd be easier to get a carb setup to run with E85 than a 90's or most 00's EFI. Bigger jets and less CFM. Of course, that fuel would be _really_ bad on the carb.
This is 100% true. It's kinda sad that we're so locked out of our own cars ECUs, so we can't just turn them to run on a different fuel real quick. Right to repair!
I use 50%+ E85 in my 2005 PT Cruiser GT (turbo motor). Been putting in E85 for a couple of years. So far, so good. (Had an 06 PT GT before that that I used E85). I do get a little less mileage to the tank vs. pure 93 octane dino gas, though. *edit - I'm also running a Diablo Sport tuner with the factory Diablo tune.
the key is mixing it. running it pure dries out the plastics and wire casings because the alcohol. the lubrication from regular gasoline is key.
8:30
Talk to us nice😂😂😂
How would this apply to carburetors and tuning it to run Richer may be a stupid question but would this not mean it's going to burn just as inefficient due to it needing a high volume of fuel to burn rught
Just put a small capacitor on the injector connector so it stays opel slightly longer. Should work right? xD
I’ve run a few tanks of e85 in a 95’ ej22 under a 96’ ej18 intake manifold and sensors and ECU. Idk if the fact I swapped it made any difference but it did it happily, mostly highway miles at like 3000-4000 rpm at like 80mph
i have a tune on 85 which is my primary tune but when i went to michigan they had no 85 and only 91 and i had to go to e like nothing in the take bc i could switch tunes wish i was pure fuel flex
Awesome content, I will leave you a like and sub to your channel. Oops I lied, I hit the dislike and left.
I tried it once on a Carbureted 9.1 to 1 compression V8. It didn't work. The compression wasn't high enough, It was way down on power. The fuel hoses and any rubber - ish parts turned to mush or turned rock hard. I had to rebuild the carb internals and replace the mechanical fuel pump. What a mess. But it sure does smell Good !
My 2002 Triumph Dsytona, you have to download the new mapping.
Secrets and lies, don't follow the money, follow the pumps, see the line from the e-85 pump that goes to the gas station's restroom toilet? The gas station sells beer, people drink that beer and use the gas station's restroom, and I will leave the rest to your imagination.
I want whatever this guy is on lmao
In a non flex fuel car, it sucks. Mileage drops 40% and it runs like ass. Has a hard time starting
Question: is it bad for me to put 93 octane in a flexfuel chevy express van as an example? Does it only accept corn juice?
Flex fuel vehicles are OK to run regular petrol gasoline or E85, including a mix of the two. You will get less "mileage" on corn, but it is cheaper. So you'd have to do the math to see which is cheaper at the end.
Best of luck!
98 is the top notch fuel at every servo in aus but there's 1 servo where I am with e85 for 2.53 a L compared to 2.01 L for 98😂
That's rough
Longterm trim should compensate over time
lies its all lies how can we trust anyone anymore ..ok im lying it seems like it could true but he may be intoxicated from corn squeezins
ford doesn't use a flex fuel sensor, and i believe dodge doesn't either. I think they switch fuel maps based on O2 readings.
GM has this and calls it Virtual Flex Fuel I think
Ran my 98 tahoe and 98 dodge ram..on it for a year.i dont think ive hurt anything..so far..other cars idk
Takes a while for it to eat away at the file lines and filter. What you can do is do half and half. And don't use it on such an old ass vehicle. Any vehicle made 2005 and later can run it and it's computer can adjust for it.
I just stumbled upon your channel for the first time ever and immediately fell in love with your style of content!😁
Thank you!
Lets see you do it with a carburetor car and for you guys who say it will eat up the gas line back when alcohol was added to gas the line was made to handle it
Ok forget cars with an ECU. Try it on an old carbureted 350 small block.
You couldn't pay me to run a carburated engine
I contend that you're wrong, and your use of a modified car with safety built into its maps confuses the issue, especially since I'm presuming you have a wideband O2 sensor.
E85 screws up the loop. Because it is a more oxygenated fuel, there's more O2 being produced in combustion. This reads as "lean" condition because the computer can't tell O2 from the air vs oxygen from the fuel. So, the computer tries to dump more fuel into the system, actually running it *rich*, which only causes more O2 to read, and keeps looping this until the engine inevitably shuts off due to quenching the spark.
Go on... Test that.
If you can't chip tune your vehicle, you need to trick it into running correctly by either dumping more air into the intake, displacing air from the intake, or by tricking the O2 sensor into doing what you want.
The best way I can describe this to you is that O2 sensors don't sense air or fuel. They sense exhaust gasses and thus read independent of what blend of fuel you're running.
They don't read in AFR, they actually read in Lambda and in fact are often called Lambda sensors. The ECU will sometimes display this in AFR, but that's just a simple math conversion.
This isn't anything new, and this is all quite well documented. We just do a live demonstration in this video that shows what actually happens.
Hmmm... Such a layman's question from a person who has never tuned a car. Let's assume that we have everything factory, including the computer, and we want to make the cheapest possible conversion to E85. Knowing that 33% more fuel is needed, would it be enough to install injectors with 33% higher flow than the factory ones and the factory computer would handle it correctly?
If this is a commuter car with no power goals whatsoever, it MIGHT work, but probably not well. When switching out injectors one must remember that more than just the flow rate changes. Things like "dead time" and performance at different battery voltages can substantially change the way an injector performs, and all these are programmed into the ECU from the factory, specifically for the injectors the engine came with.
Changing the injectors means the ECU has those parameters wrong and that's tough for the ECU to learn around, if not impossible. It's better to just re-tune the ECU with the new injector parameters as well.
This still doesn't solve the problem in that you can't mix E85 and regular petrol, IE run true flex fuel.
Would be interesting to relate the 30% more fuel need for E85 vs the reduced cost of E85. Seeing you would get worse gas mileage running E85 for a car not designed for it ( regardless of of how "well" the engine runs )....seems overall to be a bad deal. I don't think E85 is fully 30% cheaper than normal gas to make it worthwhile.
In my area, it is indeed cheaper dollar-per-mile than 93 octane. My reason for running E85 is for performance, as it has a much higher octane rating at 105 which is necessary for many performance builds I do.
❤️in love with this guy 😊
dude your videos are fire why haven't i found this channel until now
I ran E85 in 2014 Chevy Cruz 1.4 turbo one time no problems
Ford said my truck's not compatible. But why do I have a yellow gas cap wtf I've been fueling up for 3 months ! And my truck ran the same I think it ran better faster and better mpg
Po171 code Did come on my first fill up with e 85
Problem with running a standalone ECU, is emissions regulations. I live in a Nazi emission county in my state. If I replaced the stock ECU, I would fail the missions test, and not be able to renew my registration. The only real solution is to wait for the vehicle to hit 25 years of age which is about 10 years from now.
No chance of making a plug and play system, so you can limp the car to get inspected on stock ecu, them pop the standalone back on?