Jonathan Pageau Plays CS Lewis to Russell Brand. Pain is God's Megaphone for a Deaf World
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
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Russel Brand needs our prayers.
Agreed!
Two years ago ,I asked God for wisdom and today I ask for strength. This is going to be a long ride isn't it?
Yes it is. You just have to hold on until you die, after that it gets a whole lot easier.
Be careful what you wish for from God. He will give it to you, but it won’t come without a cost. Salvation is free, but the consequence of receiving gifts is more accountability and more temptation from the enemy. E.g. Solomon.
@@usedname9467 Yes. The visit from god and now here's the bill.
@@Pseudo_Boethius "it gets a whole lot easier." I find Christians some of the most fatalistic groupthink bunch there is. We can suffer through this life so we can get to the next. Next what? Be careful what you wish for, as someone pointed out, You may be sorely disappointed when you get there?
The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live.
@@sitka49 -- If only it were about just being moral. The problem isn't so much our being moral, the real issue is there are far, far, far, too many people on this earth that could absolutely care less about even pretending to be moral, and yet, we are forced to live with them, since we are not allowed to strike them down, no matter how much they may richly deserve it. And yes, it OFTEN gets to the level that if you don't join them in their debauchery, you WILL pay for it.
Once you realize about 80 to 90% of the population of the earth will happily embrace evil of any kind as long as they don't have to suffer for being good, then you are truly awake, and you are truly saddened at what an evil world we live in.
"Pain is God's megaphone for a deaf world."
PVK, I will be thinking about this phrase for years and years to come.
Is RB perhaps JP's shadow Jungy...or visa versy?
One of the best moments for both these men. A sincere attempt at connection.
As Jonathan would speak, I was focused on Russel’s face and it was riveting to see the raw emotions surging there.
Here before you’re canceled. Thanks for the video, Paul.
A crossover I did not expect, I sooner expected a Lex Fridman crossover with either Jonathan or Russell than a Russell/Jonathan crossover. Thanks for the video, Paul.
Excellent. Loved this review💜🙏NIreland
cliché as it sounds, the real trick is acknowledging that pain, and letting the suffering spur your own volition on to voluntarily loving...
embodying Christlike obedience.
But also alleviating the suffering of others in so loving. Otherwise (as it too often comes across as) Christianity becomes masochistic.
Russel had a look to him here that I don't think is usually present. I think he was almost opening up to somethin that he has never noticed.
Thank you for being here Paul. And making videos.
Pageaus embrace of suffering contrasts nicely with Sam Harris’ aversion to it.
What if the answer to Sam’s question of how to ameliorate suffering is to participate in a religion?
I think this is key; the amelioration. Christianity too often comes off as masochistic.
I just won VanderKlay Bingo with the C.S. Lewis "Miracles" reference!!!!! at 10:00!
I was only one “Paterson New Jersey” away!!!
Yeah, what is going on?! It's supposed to be a quiet Christmas break 🤣
15:56 The embrace of suffering that leads to a freer existence makes sense however counterintuitive (I always think about becoming healthier through exercise in the simplest of examples).
But insofar as the suffering is portrayed to be necessarily a positive willing or good (or “wanting” it to be the case as Jonathan puts it) - something of substance - it makes God out to be cruel. It is only necessary if we’re committed to the idea that this is a “total sum” game in an “infinite equation” and that there can be no “deeper mystery of created freedom” as DBH nicely puts it in Doors of the Sea.
I think it’s an important distinction to make.
A little late but merry Christmas to you Paul!
Russell has been humbled and it is obvious even in his demeanor, We need to pray for him, because even if he tries too hard to be verbose and philosophical, he has a heart moved towards the search for Truth. Many Christians do not ever do this.
"How much ritual was in Aristotle?"
I seem to remember reading one of Plato's dialogs (or maybe it was in the Republic) where he was being hosted by a man who wasn't at the table because he was busy off doing a sacrifice. He was pointed out as admirably (but remarkably) reverent. Apparently even in Plato's day, following religion to a "t" was unusual.
Symposium
"At your lowest point, that is when you are most _open_ to *change*" -Avatar: The Last Airbender
Cheesy but in theme with the discussions on transformation and suffering, how we can change when we have exhausted all other options believed available to us.
Great video! I actually went and looked up Pageau on RB's rumble page after starting your video on this and ended up watching the whole thing first lol. Is there a copyright concern about showing the rumble video on TH-cam? Cause otherwise i dont see what the issue would be just showing the rumble stream 😅
Can’t wait for PVK to do video series in last air bender when he watches it with his grandkids 10 years from now
I support the coining of the adjective “Buddhisty” at the 12 minute mark!
I wanted to relisten to Molly Worthen for a while but couldn’t remember her name! I struggle to navigate without an effective directory xD perhaps I should have asked for guidance. Anyway, glad to hear you mention her name so I can seek her videos out.
Sounds fun!
WOW !!!
Oh my god. I thought of Charles Taylor when he said porous too. Do you have any videos where you discuss your thoughts on his work? I keep wish people like Jordan Peterson would interview him.
Let's be honest, Sam Harris is pretty easy to poke out. He's quite unselfaware.... But then that can get you up the status hierarchy pretty quick
I think alot of what Gene Wolfe said about how we live in pagan world becoming Christian and this is what he aimed to show in Book of The New Sun
Probably even more so in The Wizard Knight.
@@apokalupsishistoria i just started reading the Wizard Knight
@@croinkix I thoroughly enjoyed it and it continues to linger in the back of my mind. I only just had a first read through this summer so I’m by means no expert. Lots of Norse heathenry shoutouts which I enjoy. I’m a big Odin guy.
Think I remember someone saying it’s basically Christian morality in a pagan world.
2:09 lol same!
Is the turkey story real!?🤣😭
Like Doll's Eyes...
Knowledge in the past was a lot harder to hold on to over time. Nonessential nuances quickly fall away without continuous investment and relevance.
Without suffering we would not know when we are harming ourselves. Pain is necessary for survival.
a great majority of the time the suffering is out our control. Job loss, divorce, cheating, death in the family ect.
Yes, I think much of the issue is the notion of God construed as voluntaristic omnipotence, wherein some other method would be possible. But Lewis nicely dispenses with the notion of God's omnipotence allowing for freedom and thus love in multiplicity without the possibility for conflict as logically incoherent.
Paul - Premiere will do a transcript as well.
Merry Christmas 🎉🎄🥳
Christianity and Hinduism are huge systems of religious practice that have existed for 2 or 3 millennia respectively. But Christianity is trans-ethnic like Buddhism and Islam. It is just about impossible for a Westerner to become voluntarily Hindu; you have to be mostly born that way in India or elsewhere to Hindu parents who practice puja. Judaism is similarly ethnic. It should come as no surprise that "new religions" haven't passed the test of time, because they either died out or are too new to prove it.
Islam is TRANS-ETHIC??? Are you really sure you want to make that claim? Or do I need to summon my inner Strategic Air Command and blow that proposition to kingdom come? 🙂. Really, it's just Christianity and Buddhism. Winning converts at sword point doesn't count.
I'd say people are reasonably raised up through God's logical love; this is why Jesus keeps His scars; there is a logical flourishing from the past as a consequence of bio-logical love that sacrificed energy. The new person keeps an inherited genetics that advocated and advocates bio-logical stewardship.
The youtube public portion of Peterson/Harris was remarkably boring and predictable. If you had asked ChatGPT to write the script it would have been more interesting.
This is possibly the first ever interview of his I'm not even remotely excited to see. Though I probably will anyhow
Whoop...der it tis!
Any good bits on the daily wire section?
To be fair Harris is always remarkably boring and predictable.
Well Harris has always been uninteresting. He just perfected a demeanor that makes him “ feel” smart to his fans. I can’t recall a single thing he said that sounded clever for that stayed with me, usefully.
I heard a Korean crediting Confucius as a major catalyst as to why Christianity caught on in Korea
Hi I have kind of a personal question. I hope you take it the right way. What is preventing you from truly reflecting on orthodoxy or Catholicism? Is any of it related to the ego death related to giving up being a pastor and having your own church?
Emjay might have a comment on Brand's branding of 33 on his arm.
Wasn't Jesus 33 when he was crucified? Let's give Brand the benefit of the doubt and just say that he's a big fan of Jesus ;-) In all seriousness though, when I look at this interview I see a timely metaphor....
@@EmJay2022I think Brand is a Christian, arrived through the gauntlet of his drug addiction and other problems.
I find Brand interesting for several reasons, but his faith only because he is not vocal about it. I don’t know if it is because Brand fears being disregarded because of it, or if he wants to downplay his own bias, but either way it is unusual.
@@TheSpicyLeg What makes you think he is a Christian?
@@anselman3156 A couple reasons. Obviously, I don’t know for sure, nor do I know what Brand has in his heart. But several months ago Brand referenced the Nicene Creed (quite odd).
@@TheSpicyLeg I'll take that as a hopeful sign, that he is at least knowledgeable of it.
As soon as your Church has women Ministers and doesn't repent of that. Then your church has departed from the Faith.
The gay marriage controversy is inevitable by that point.
prima scriptura is a mistake
Just to let you know, your video had an advertisement for cannabis. Kind of weird.
A very good plant when in the hands of good people.
When you say "turkey" do you mean bird or person?
bird
Book recommendation. Inklings on philosophy and worldview by Matthew Dominguez.
JPs Maps of meaning reminded me of RW's the purpose driven life.
You would think napoleans wars were about promoting the french brand but they were really about getting rid of tall people
Damn revisionist history....
21:01 maybe he’s not trying to prove the resurrection, he’s just trying to prove that believing in the resurrection is valid?
but is not about suffering, is about gratitude and grace .... oh welp😮💨
If it is not at all about suffering: why the passion?
Why 'take up your cross and follow me!'?
The cross is a symbol of ultimate suffering and death. Christ has overcome this, and is risen! But with his suffering wounds.
And in the end, we should try to immitate Him in all that we do.
Gratitude and Grace are very important! They are gifts from God and keep us close to him. But i don't see how Christianity works without the acceptance of suffering, escpescially regarding the climax of passion and resurrection.
@@MrsYasha1984, thank you for your thoughtful response pointing at the significance of suffering in Christianity,
particularly its connection to the Passion of Christ, which I view as God's profound commitment to humanity,
as exemplified by His choice to participate in suffering through His only son.
This unwavering commitment is expressed vividly through the incarnation.
Such commitment allows for a level of discernment that enables us to see beyond hardships,
recognize broader perspectives, and embrace the divine calling inherent in the incarnation,
aligning ourselves with God's will, Devine Grace and Love, where's the suffering in that,
I don't see it unless is coming from my individualist perspective, which happens all the time :0p
It's all of it dude
vanderclocker
I wonder if it would be interesting for you to have Redeemed Zoomer on. He has some interesting things to say about meaning/beauty in the modern world in relation to his Reconquista project.
@phlebas9204 yes, he does when he goes on other people’s channels.
+1 for redeemed zoomer. His strategy of fighting the good fight within the mainstream denominations is admirable and one I’d like to participate in.
23:00 PVK rejects Sola Scriptura 😳
HWhat?!
He's trolling you Luke... :)
I would have said that the Old Testament scriptures are very descriptive of the sacrifices. So much detail is given. The words are sufficient for us to know what they were like.
@@phlebas9204 PVK seems to be off here. Has he not read the detailed descriptions in, say, Leviticus?
prima scriptura is idolatry
You should get actors to read the script so it is similar but different enough to avoid copyright.
if that happened i would love to offer my voice. I went to school for acting but left the industry after someone offered career advancement in exchange for sexual favor 😅
it would be nice to use my rusty old chops for something of value.
"Not Buffered But Porous"...... meme this.....'>......
*Porous* at 15min, is a point that Rupert Sheldrake recently makes to Iain McGilchrist, referencing Charles Taylor's concept of Porosity.
m.th-cam.com/video/ZAvwy2LTLMM/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUhcnVwZXJ0IHNoZWxkcmFrZSBpYWluIG1jZ2lsY2hyaXN0
It's a recent talk, and I imagine Rupert Sheldrake would be one creature of many in Russel Brand's brackish waters.
Possible dot-dot.
Russell is a Christian so that’s probably why he was keen to talk to Jonathan when he became aware of his work, and why he chose to air the conversation at Christmas. I think Russell's way of speaking is quite poetic mostly. The verbal gymnastics are a characteristic that he has always had. I think his words are a window into his mind, which works very fast and covers vast terrain.
No, he's a Hermetic. Pray he gets serious
@sillygoose4472 Funny how he talks about Christ as the way to his salvation then...Christian mystic types are still Christian...Through Christ's Love & resurrection we are saved...
@@thecrookedtrail679 Where does he talk about this? Does he speak of the Lord Jesus Christ saving him in the way that the New Testament describes?
@@anselman3156- prima scriptura is a mistake
@@RightInChrist What do you mean?
Sam Harris doesn't claim Christianity but pretty much wholly embodies Christ in as much as a human can act "Christlike"
Very thoughtful conversation between him and JP
idk I'm getting Pharisee vibes from Sam
Russell Brand 10:25 - 10:29 ...
😂😂😂😂...flashbacks
I thought of a snake when saw this. In a neutral sense.
@@Orm-zn6fl 'in a neutral sense'?
It's amazing that more folk haven't picked up on this...
...Brand is not at all difficult to follow -- certainly, he is verbose or poetic, if you will.
Russell has great confidence, wit, and intelligence -- whereas you, Paul, have a more ditzy-blonde-aw-shucks plaintiveness.
Both approaches are fine.
Tho i prefer Russell if i were forced to choose.
Dear Pual , I enjoyed your video, indeed more than Russell Brand's rant, because he can be very obnoxious when he does a Chatgpt3 lol
However, I am at odds with you worldview, and that if Brand*s, since I do not believe in magic.
Jesus Christ probably never existed.
The town of Nazareth did not exist at 1 BC.
th-cam.com/video/zmEScIUcvz0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/gHOK66qj9xc/w-d-xo.html
These are two beautiful documentaries, where scholars digging into the historical Jesus persent their findings.
For me, it was a relief to realize, as Dr Price says on that second video, minute 1:41:05 ;
it does not matter if there ever was a historical Jesus ( or a Zeus), because the myth around the man was definitely a fabrication...
...in this case by the Flavian family within the Roman empire, and taken up by Konstantinople.
(BTW I actually really wanted to believe in a god, but realized it was like having an imaginary friend with powers, offering illusionary comfort)
Ok, now conciousness. IMO give an AI a body (robot), and it will become concious. By all definitions. We are no different.
We are little machines, trying to make sense of the universe. But don't worry, your alive time will exist in eternity. In fact, your future already exists.
just science
take care
PS to Sam Harris, you listen!
I loved the PS. :))))
Paul, I know when one is as productive as you in the volume of comments and ideas you generate, one is doomed to produce a few bloopers -- and that is what you have done here, in so much as you have used comments by CS Lewis to talk about Hinduism as a legitimate path as opposed to Xtianity. From what he said in "A Severe Mercy," as well a what else I could find on the Web, it's fairly obvious that Lewis had an extremely superficial knowledge of Hinduism. I read a few of his books 40 or so years ago - Screwtape, Problem of Pain, Mere Christianity etc. I think I got some value from these writings at the time - they influenced me in a positive way, but from today's vantage point he strikes me as the Sam Harris of those times, albeit with a different orientation to theism. A bit of a poser.
But the resurrection is not how reality works. This is so bizarre .
So you don't believe the Gospel
second
This is a bunch of gnostic clap trap. There are many profound reasons to believe in God. We are self evidently transcendent beings at least in part. We think and have ideas and “consciousness.” That refutes materialism. Materialism is anathema to consciousness and transcendent being. As soon as you try to make an argument for materialism you refute it by affirming transcendent thought with your argument, good or bad as it may be. Morality does the same thing. If you say, “that’s not fair!” You have affirmed a transcendent standard. People don’t think about these things very deeply and it always surprises me that we are so easily fooled and duped into believing and saying ridiculous things. If we are transcendent, at least in part, then it is evidence that there is a transcendent realm and it is the beginning of a realization that there is a God. The physical universe is another huge pointer to God’s existence. There are more nuanced arguments but this should suffice for any thoughtful person who has not been jaded by anger and cynicism.
This Pageau guy is perverting Christianity with paganism. Death and resurrection are NOT normal! As much as Jordan Peterson would like to impose his psychological mumbo jumbo onto Christianity, it’s just not so. There is a God. He is self evidently ident both rationally and in our experience if we will humble ourselves to admit it. God is the creator of the universe and all that is in it. Only God can raise people from the dead and turn our failures into something good but that is not a “natural” principle. To suggest that Christ’s resurrection is a normal characteristic of how the world operates is ridiculous and it should be rejected and scoffed at.
Death is not part of the circle of life! Death is utterly destructive, dark, final, and it should be terrifying. Death is not terrifying because we will cease to exist but because we will cease to exist without any access to God and He is the source of life and all goodness. Death is hell. Just like the dark is not light and no one gets light from darkness, nothing good comes from death. The restoration of life comes from life and that is God.
I am tired of these people with their shady words and their darkened understanding telling people lies about what is true. People want to feel good about death and about their lives so they spin things to make themselves feel good. Here is the truth. You, me, and everyone else are utterly awful, deplorable, and corrupt. We deserve hell. We will get hell unless God intervenes and does a miracle. That’s where Jesus comes in. He did the miracle and we can be saved but it’s not by some new age, weird, psychological, post modern clap trap. Pray to God, ask Him to reveal the truth to you, ask Him about Jesus Christ. There are many religions but religion will not get you where you need to go. Jesus Christ is not a religion. He is reality and it’s best to confront reality as soon as possible. You may find that the man who said “I am the way, the truth, and the life” is more merciful, loving, and healing, then what we can imagine. CS Lewis once said that ‘it’s not that Christianity has been tried and it has failed, but rather, it has been hardly tried at all.”
Yes. I was very disappointed in Pageau here (not that I follow him closely to know what to expect from him).
I disagree with your comment, but it's so darn Calvinist I have to admire it.
Orthodox Christianity has baptized entire nations and produced countless saints and martyrs. This hyper legalistic boomer street preacher version of Christianity you are espousing is a late western phenomenon that led to the atheism and nihilism we are experiencing today and that they are addressing in the video.
I don't really disagree with this, but I'm not sure if I would say he is a pagan. I find he emphasizes the current world and how things work here too much without talking much about life in the new heaven and earth. I know he knows about it, but I'm not sure he's fully made that distinction and whether he is careful to acknowledge that our current world is not normal. Now, I'm not perfect. I've made similar errors before in understanding scripture so I would be a little more hesitant with this than I would with someone who's consistently going against scripture and showing a deceptive spirit, but I do think we always need to be gracious and charitable. This could be something he is simply just wrong about and needs correction on, this is fine. If he truly believes in Jesus then he will be guided back to the truth. Being discerning while maintaining humility is something that can be extremely difficult, but I think it's what we're called to do, even if we may constantly fail at it.
I hate that ‘best version of ourselves”… moderately disagree with Jonathan. Jesus prayer of John 17 says exactly what he wants us to be …One just like he was one, completely unified to him and God, it is our true self it not just better it is the ultimate self. Jesus was never not himself never not in union to the will of the father, Jesus is the ultimate individual complete and completely unique. That is what we are to be so much so that he prays for us who believe to be like him…ONE. The culmination is the receiving on a unique name ,secret written on a white stone. Then we are ourselves, identity returns, we know then who we are, more than just better, complete. We become Automatic we no longer have to search for our identity.