It's true though, isnt it? Being a lot in debt from a very early age can significantly cripple you later in life - which is an insane choice to make when you're in your teens.
@@steve00alt70 uni is expensive in Australia. Luckily we have student loan called hecs so nothing is out of pocket, but the subjects for me cost 2-4k and I was doing 4 (minimum required)
Great video. And as a former art institute student, I will ride on the previous comments by also saying to avoid them like the plague. Absurdly overpriced tuition, predatory tactics, and an "education" that is not even close to up to snuff. You're better off learning from youtube exclusively or looking to schools in Europe as the US schools are way too expensive. Another alternative is also taking CGMA classes. You don't need a degree in this field, so save your money.
Thanks for your input! It's very interesting hearing from people who's gone through one of these expensive schools. It's amazing what you can learn from online training today (Such as FlippedNormals *cough cough*)
Haha indeed. Online training is honestly what helped me get my first industry job right out of school. I could have very well ended up as another student horror story had it not been for Gonomon, TH-cam, 3dMotive, etc. Again, massive props to you guys for putting out this video, I wish i could go back in time and show to it my high-school self.
I will add in to this. please dont do 100% youtube. use it as a side thing. Find a website like Pluralsite. Learn the basics , work flows of the programs. Then go find a website directly taught by the Artist. Like Ryan Kinglien and stuff. This are more of workshop classes that help teach you the art side and the industry side. So you can become better. Just youtube will have you all over the place.
I really want to drop out of my art school, because they didn taught the fundamentals well at all, and had us learn many unrelated subjects. For example, we didn learn any techniques shown in scott robertson's perspective book and they expect us to design and paint characters, creatures, vehicles and environments. But i really want to work overseas like in US as they are really no job opportunities in my country but i need a degree to be a working visa in other countries, i really hate this...
WhoFedHacker I use mainly open-source softwares, none of overpriced rentals. I find some good books in Amazon. There, I always read highly critical reviews before buying books. I used to buy magazines like 3D World, Computer Art, etc.
I’ve been taking pursuing a career in the animation industry a lot more seriously recently and this video has been EXTREMELY helpful. Even though I am not a VFX artist, this is some really valuable information. Thank you so much for sharing!
Speaking from experience, Truth is you don't have to. If you are very self motivated, you can learn everything on your own. EVERYTHING is online now, even critical feedback from top artists in the industry. Clients only care about your talent and skill, and your portfolio will speak for itself. Traditional art skills is still more desirable than technical mastery of cg tools. However, if you are the kind of person that is not self motivated and impatient, then your learning curve will be much slower than someone who is forced to study and work at school. Also the best thing about school is the social environment you get to hone your maturity in, and the social network you get. Definitely prepares you to deal with the office environment much more than if you are just home schooling on your own, which in my opinion does the exact opposite, makes you rusty on dealing with the politics of an office environment. But of course, you can always go "freelance" and see if that works out better for you.
Thanks for your comment! We agree with everything you just said now, and it's a pretty good summary of the video. All the info you need is online, but schools are fantastic for networking and meeting friends.
Yeah, that was a main reason I wanted to go the route of a class, my productive side had been falling behind a lot on me over the last few years, and I felt like it needed a firm kick, and what better way than to have rigid deadlines I can't just keep pushing off, which is what a class environment could provide. Also been a great way to help push me out of my comfort zone to try more things I might of otherwise just pushed to the side to try 'someday'.
I went to art college and took a course in fine art and design. It was hugely deficient. After college, I re-taught myself to everything and unlearned bad habits. I am familiar with the old-schooled ways of sketching and painting, portraiture too. I had read many vintage art books that were very useful. Also, I picked up tips from renown traditional artists, some whose artist parents gave them old-schooled training. One elderly nun in high school gave me traditional art training which was more than I had ever picked up in art college. In her art classes with tight rules, I practised lots of cross hatches in pencil shading, but no joining the ends of hatches. Also, I was forbidden to use eraser during exercises. Most art schools today *DON'T* teach right the skills in traditional art, nothing like what Andrew Loomis, Joseph Redouté, Hans Holbein, Caravaggio, and other old masters were taught in their old days. They don't even know how to ink comics the old Marvel way. When I watch videos of today's Disney's key animators roughing out their sketches, they are drawing hairy outlines instead of sweeps of bold quick strokes. Their pace of sketching is *TOO LEISURED* by pre-1950s' art school standards. Some don't even hold the pencils the right way, the bad habit resulting in Artist's Callus on fingers. Traditional art training is immensely useful to anybody in CG. In 3d modelling, I start character from a hip and work my way outwards. Sometimes, I start from feet up to head, while most artists today normally start from head to feet. I choose only whatever ways that are economical and quick. In portraiture, I start from nose which is the most central feature; from there, I work my way outwards. That way is *BETTER* and *QUICKER* than starting from eyes, especially when you are working on a moving sitter who won't sit or stand absolutely still for you. It is truly the old-schooled way.
Guys, this is pure gold. I was about tO go out for jogging, and I was writing a comment tO suggest you to put these talks on sound Cloud, and ...oh wait, it's already There! Great job , really.
Don't go to school, learn online. Learn ART fundamentals. I did everything the "wrong way" and still ended up working on Black Panther due to my art skills and being a pleasant person to be around (I think! :P) Now I will say this if you are purely after a "job" then yes maybe go to the right school and you can be a cg clerk for the rest of your life... but if you are trying to be a competent artist and this is a lifelong ambition mind you not something you do for a job... then learn everything you can. Great vids guys!
I can't agree more with you - the key is to learn art fundamentals. If you don't have them, everything will feel like a struggle. That was one of the main reasons I went to school actually, as I wanted to learn the fundamentals. Technical 3D you can always learn from courses, but the fundamentals can be tricky to get by yourself. Also congrats on your success so far! You have some lovely pieces on ArtStation :) /Henning
Thanks Henning... you guys are killing it! Look forward to seeing more work from you guys and always a pleasure to see more Flipped Normals content pop up on my feed!
Would love to see you guys talk about good habit vs bad habits to learning CG and how to make the most of your time learning especially for all the freelancers or self-taught individualds.
Man oh man, if only I heard this four years ago. xD A lot of what you guys touched on about colleges for CG is very true and it's something I'm going through right now. Luckily, I have an indie job that pays decently...but I'm nowhere near being able to hit the companies in my area.. I figured it's going to be another 1-3 years or so of working on my portfolio before I can reach my dream company. Which is super sad because the college I went through wasn't very cheap at all, was supposed to be this amazing college that has a ton of companies like Bungie, Blizzard, Amazon, start ups like V1 Interactive, etc. come through and the college is always like, "Oh we make the best of the best and because of it, everybody who graduates gets in with a triple A company!" Not very true, unless you're a programmer at that college. It was good for networking, which is also super important for getting a job in the industry. I've seen people with mediocre skills get jobs just because of the people they knew. During my studies, I always had to do a ton of self learning because the professors weren't doing a good job. To this day, I'm having to go back through and fill holes that should have been filled in my freshman/sophomore year. I know they changed their BFA program a bit, but it's still not really worth it. You can spend less money and get good quality information through things like Cubebrush, Pluralsight, TH-cam tutorials even, books like Valorie L Winslow or books through 3Dtotal, forms, etc. I've been using a lot of these things and it has helped a ton.
A really inspiring talk to listen to while I am working on my projects! Would love to hear some more. Parts of this talk are very recognisable.. I went to an awful university first. Although it was cheap because it was in The Netherlands. It was absolutely one of the worst games art universities but I only realised that after the second year, because I had no experience and knowledge about the games industry beforehand.They showed off all these people that had worked at Guerrilla Games, who did indeed maybe attend the uni but only for one or two years. Most of them failed the uni because they did so much work at home evading the essays etc, but it did gave them proper jobs at big studios. Now the uni uses their names for their marketing Now I'm attending an university for my MA in the UK that is one of the top Games Art courses and everything that I learned at my BA in four years they showed me how to do properly in 4 months. Getting proper feedback and have motivating classmates around you is so important! (Yes I know a MA is useless to have in the industry, I have my own reasons for doing this)
Thanks for your comment! I feel you're spot on here: You often don't realize the course is terrible until you're a few years in, or worst case, you've finished it. When you're a rookie, it's impossible to judge the quality of the course. This is also the exact thing we're talking about in the video: Just because somebody now works at GG, doesnt mean it's related to the school. I've met very talented people who are where they are not because of their school, but DESPITE their school; they actually felt their uni was hindering their career. This is obviously not true for all schools, but for far too many, this story repeats itself. I'm glad that your current course is a lot better than the former one! Can I ask which school youre attending now? /Henning
I'm attending the University of Hertfordshire. The nice thing with the MA here is that it is actually just one full year. There is only MA class one morning and one afternoon, mostly for learning academic research and doing bigger projects. However we can attend every class of the BA from their first to third year, which really made it worth its money for me. It's nice seeing companies coming in, doing live briefs for companies etc. It's useful getting direct feedback from the industry, while being in a safe environment. Also an interesting note maybe; As soon as i put "Hertfordshire" on my LinkedIn/Artstation profile I got a lot more traffic/ freelance offers.
Ah cool! I've heard a lot of good things about Hertfordshire; it seems like one of the few courses in the UK which is worth attending. Glad you're having a good time! :)
My husband and I talk all the time about how much money we feel like we've wasted going to school. If you CAN, don't. IF you have a mentor or can learn by yourself, do it. You're going to save yourself from possibly hundreds of thousands of $$$ creating "school projects" that you will never look back at and think "Oh yes I can put this on my portfolio." On the good side of school, College is where I met some of my best friends, met irreplaceable connections, and even got recommendations for some of my first freelancing jobs. I grew as an artist because I was forced to learn things I may or may not have wanted to learn. It pushed me to learn 3D and understand the different elements, even if my discipline doesn't revolve around most of it. It's also such a valuable source to have instructors help you face to face because they can truly explain to you things that pertain to YOUR project that saves hours of research for (possibly) one simple answer. There are so many resources out there now though; We have books, video tutorials like here on TH-cam, Lynda.com, Pluralsight.com, CGCookie, I could go on and on. A lot of artists in College in their free time will learn different trades this way anyways, so why not try before getting into school? (If you're interested). If you are learning 3D, join clubs. Join discords. Get out there and ask people to genuinely help you out and most people will. There are so many opportunities for either, college or not. Nobody is born knowing Blender or Maya, or whatever. Anybody learning art is going to take the same steps of "learn, practice, work". So, get out there artists, do your thing!
Hey, I couldn't agree more with your comment. Unfortunately we see way too many people who feel they wasted an insane amount of money going to art school. The resources your mentioned are absolutely worth their weight in gold, as the information they present is at least as good as most universities, if not a lot better.
You guys are awesome. I've only recently decided to try my dream at working in this field. I have been doing this as a hobby for years, dreaming of it becoming a career. My husband went to college for art and he hated it, leaving with skills he, for the most part, already had. He is very talented at creating realistic and beautiful skins, textures, and designs. For him this video is 100% right and he made it no where by going to art school, people only cared about his quality of work. My dream is to work on video games, to understand how to create a well designed model, character, etc for any potential job. I've been practicing day and night, watching videos and learning from your channel as well as many other sources. My dream is to help make beautiful video games, but ultimately to produce a game with my friends, my husband, and hopefully be successful. I need more experience first, I need skills I dont yet have. We all share this dream, we are anxious to work hard and learn our trade so we have something to bring to the table. I'm stuck though, while I know my practice has made me better over time I'm still very unsure. What, in y'all's opinion, is a good place to start? Freelance work, CG clerk, applying directly to studios, etc. What is the best option that you know of; I have no clue where to begin. I know I'm not a great artist like you guys, I have taught myself everything I know. My biggest concern is starting somewhere too advanced and failing, getting a bad reputation. Or starting too low and ending up never going anywhere, in a place that doesn't challenge me or give me anything to learn. Thanks guys, even if you dont respond, I always appreciate the videos. I will keep working and hopefully someday I can look back here with a copy of my own game being sold.
Its nice that u aspire to be an artist I loved drawing from a young age In elemwntary school we had this class were we wrote a small text about a topic and then we drew something similar to the topic i loved that so much when it was the time to draw ever since i was the picasso of the school Untill i gradueated i went for coding in uni and i hate it I do 3d now as self taught My theory is that school makes u hate every bit of the trade u want to be When i joined uni i remwmber that the teachers made me hate the lessons But i mean i like art more anyways compared to coding I feel kinda lost on how to get a job even in a small studio after improving my skills tho In my own judgement u should focus on marketing ur art and selling ur own art first Its a + if u have people in ur circle to form a mini indie studio I wonder how much u have improved and if ur doing well after 3 years have passed
I went to school to get to be around individuals who had similar goals to me, I choose my school for what I thought were the right reasons. Every art class I took I felt helped me towards my goals, until I hit my CGI course, the instructor knew less than I did to the point where I lead classes with the teacher following along with the rest of the class and asking me more questions than any other student. I ended up teaching so much that I never worked on my own portfolio, my lesson plans were mostly off the cuff and focused on questions posed by the class. Now I work in a completely different field with very little ability to apply any of my knowledge. So my word of advice is try and sit in on a high level class before you get through 75% of your coursework without a safety net in place and nowhere to go.
Thanks a lot for sharing your story. It really breaks me hearing the very real consequences of bad CG/art schools. Students aren't just pawns in a game, but very real people who suffer very real consequences as a result. Are you doing CG in your spare time now, or have you quit completely? /Henning
Yes, you can learn all the technical skills you need online. But school is very good at forcing you to work, it motivates you and makes you work with people you usually wouldn't work with. It teaches you professional practice and how to work with others. You'll struggle to develop that working at home by yourself on a solo project. Learning how to work with others and deal with team members who aren't pulling their weight isn't something you can learn online. It also gives you structure, and something to follow. You just have to go to the right uni. I went to uni, but I also did a load of online courses/ tutorials in my own time because I wanted to be the best I could be within 3 years. It annoyed me that alot of the things I learnt online weren't taught at uni, but I still value what I learnt from going to uni. It's great life experience. So I think it's worth it, but only if you work hard, attend every class, and don't expect going to uni to be a one way ticket into the industry. You still have to work hard in your own time to get a job.
I'm pulling out my hair reading the comments. I have a masters and work for one of the top entertainment brands in the world. I know people who own their own companies and have ivy league degrees. It is possible to earn a degree and study as you please. There's also an assumption of working in the arts because we studied the arts. I am happy to have a broader education. I don't want to be the audio engineer who only studies music and ends up a** out when the industry shifts.
"But school is very good at forcing you to work it motivates you?" what a Bulshit! Bulshit asf!! probably your motivate coz of the debt and tuition you waste and also time yes it motivate.....thiers so many things that can motivate you!!...
I feel like what you guys are talking about is so true, but the thing is, making these wise decisions, doing your research properly, having proper insights and doing good cost/benefit analyses, these are things that most 16-18 year olds haven't figured out yet... and educational institutions know this. It's a sad state of affairs and a trap I myself am still stuck in. By the time these students come to realize their mistake, they're already in too deep. Lucky are the viewers who watch this vid and have yet to pick a college. Anyway, thanks for all your info, a few vids from you guys have indeed taught me more than my "art education" taught me in 3 years. They don't even understand the concept of sculpting.
From my experience, I definitely cant recommend college. I'm 3 years into college, the first year I went to a foundation course, learned a variation of skills but the lecturers couldn't teach specifics for the life of them, AKA; The lecturer teaching animation/ anything to do with software was the graphics design lecturer... so he knew the literal bare minimum on each thing. Year 2, I got into second year at an IT doing animation, because they needed more numbers and every lecturer I talked to in the colleges and unis said that animation was the closest thing to concept art (which I really wanted to do)... I spend 80% of my time animating... 19% sculpting and 1% concept... I still do my own stuff in my spare time but that seriously cant compare to concept designers who spend 12 hours a day on their craft. I decided to move into 3D because of the things the college taught, I enjoyed that and I picked it up really quickly. It didn't help that the college hired someone who was fluent at 3D Studio Max to teach Maya... The college uses Macs and 3DS Max doesn't work on Macs and we couldn't exactly learn Max from him (In his defense the college didn't say he would be teaching Maya so I would blame it on the art department for poorly communicating the job details). We just finished year 3 and I don't have the skills I need to land a job. I can't use Zbrush, Substance Painter, etc. which the college has refused to touch (which im learning in my spare time now) I'm being pushed by my parents to do 4th year, because they are convinced that a piece of paper with a stamp of approval from an institute of technology will get me a job in art. I think I did earn some valuable experience from college, it did force me to learn to figure stuff out for myself and it got me aware of events where I could meet other artists from the industry and different colleges, and it sorta taught that having a deadline (no matter how long) can be good motivation to work harder. At the same time, a 2 hours video of how to self-teach would have also done the trick. I will convince my parents to let me take a year out (if they don't threaten to kick me out of the house again) to work on an actual portfolio because college has been dragging my standard down the drain in the areas I actually want to advance.
Being a teacher in one of the smaller, cheaper 3D/VFX schools in Europe, this was very interesting to listen to. It's absolutely ridiculous that some schools can get up to 100k or even more. Hell, even 50k is too much, if you ask me. In my humble opinion, no one should ever actually acquire a crippling debt without any guarantees and there are no guarantees in this field. One thing I cannot agree more about is parents and grades. I would honestly just eliminate grades from our school and just leave nothing but feedback in evaluations of student works and reels. But parents seems to always demand grades and it's seems to be futile to explain to them that no one, literally no one will ask for their kid's school grade while considering hiring them. Interesting discussion, guys, thanks!
Thanks Nick - Much appreciated! Its really interesting hearing your perspective from a teachers point of view. Do you have any ideas on how to improve general education in our field? /H
Good question, but I don't think I have any idea how to improve it overall :D The thing is those kind of predatory schools that you mentioned don't understand that there is a symbiotic relationship between students and the school. The school has a self-interest in making sure its students have impressive reels and go on to work for big studios, because then the school itself has an impressive reel and its students can give positive feedback about the school, especially to big companies. The problem here is that, as you've noted, some students choose the schools so carelessly that they don't even take interests in reels. The school that does not show a student reel (and a good one at that) should never be able to get a single student, but this is more of a problem of capitalism overall than of VFX. We assume that the market will balance itself out and the bad products will disappear, because there will be no buyers for them, however this assumes that all the consumers are educated and rational ones and nothing could be further from the truth. Sadly, there will always be people from whom such businesses will gain. As for the overpriced schools, I have no idea how it got that bad, but I suppose that's not only a problem of VFX either and has more to do with social phenomenons of which I'm unaware. P.S. I think my students loved your channel! Will probably make my job easier :D
I actually got a degree in game design but then decided several years later to get into art. I started off self teaching with online tutorials to get up to date on my tools, but realized I needed a bit more structure. My job gave me access to Udemy, but even then it felt too loosey goosey. I got back into online classes only because with my transferred credits, I was able to focus entirely on art courses and get my BA degree in 1 single year of classes for a pretty low cost (relatively). The program is pretty accelerated, so it has a lot of holes, but ive used it to help structure my own studies on the side with various tutorials. Many of the professors have also helped answer questions that youtube or reddit have failed me in. So my case was prettttttty lucky in school being a worthwhile endeavor, but idk that I'd suggest an entire, expensive 4 year program unless you're SURE you're passionate about it and have no idea where to start / struggle with intrinsic motivation.
I feel like the top reason I would consider going to school is just for the social aspect. To be around people and make good friends. That's honestly the only thing that really has me torn right now. I feel as if it's far better to learn on my own but then... how do I get to know people? How do I stay sane by myself?
Sorry to necropost but this is absolutely one of the main reasons I started to go to Full Sail. It really bears down on you to network and put yourself out there, get known and find a job. Not a lot of unis really do that though which is questionable as to why they are teaching students how to regurgitate information in tests instead of teaching them how to work in their field.
You guys are awesome. I have your podcasts running while I work...and yes I am learning from youtube videos like yours because of all reasons you explained so nicely here. Keep up the good work!
I feel I've wasted 3 years of my life at uni, even though I graduated. They taught very little about 3d modelling, plus what they taught were out of date methods. If I had the choice to learn via online sources such as courses and youtube, I would. But I was pressured into staying on at uni by my parents because it was seen as "the way to get a job and be successful in life". For this industry, it simply isn't the case. The only upside to going to uni, was meeting the other students. My advice if you're considering going to uni, be sure to know exactly what they say they'll teach you, plus who your tutors are. Because from my experience, I had tutors who were ex-students from the year before and they were terrible tutors. This video highlights exactly my experience in that respect. After uni I chose to take an online course focused on 3d modelling and game art that lasted 3 months. And from that ONE course I felt that I learnt more than I did in the 3 years I was at uni. A lot of my friends from uni felt scammed by choosing to study there. So, to those thinking about going to uni, look into online courses first (hell, even free sources and forums), and get a good idea about what discipline you want to follow. You'll save time and money, guaranteed.
Shannen Matnarudin thanks for posting your experiences. I keep coming back to this video to see what people are saying. I think what might be a nice idea, if possible on this video, is to create a poll of opinions as to which 'online course' destination people are using. I'm sure this info is also on forums as well though. Would you be willing to share which course and uni you studied Shannen? Perhaps also your online destination? It gets real hard to decide.. Udemy, course era, future learn, open university, pluralsight. A lot of those I listed are wide ranging (business, art, IT , etc, ) whereas a couple I heard of recently 'Animation Mentor' and the expensive 'Escape Studios' (run by a college I'm London) (postgrad) course, are dedicated to 3d. Escape studios in particular, just to look at it for moment... They have industrial links with MPC, THE MILL, and ubisoft (in games) where they take students on directly to those companies as interns. Quite special. But veeeery expensive. Escape studios course for example (1year, £10k), even £15k for one of their courses. AnimationMenor though I've heard from 2 people who made it into rockstar games (North) afterward. *talent obviously not a direct result of the course.
Hey dude :). My course at uni was games design, so it was really broad in a sense. Initially I was told we'd learn about 3d, which I was stoked about because I wanted to become a 3d artist. But we barely covered it during my time there. I tried persuading my parents to let me leave and learn online. Unfortunately, they didn't see past it. I prefer not to give my uni away... it wasn't a prestigious one I'll say that :P After uni was done, a friend of mine from uni (who left after the first year) recommended taking a course that was focused on game art. I decided to take the course because the biggest hurdle for me at the time was understanding the software and the workflow, which I knew practically nothing about. And that's what the course taught me. It boosted my understanding how stuff worked. The course itself was from Game Art Institute and I took it at the start of 2016. It was a mentorship I think I paid around £700 for 3 months, which may seem on the pricey side, but if you think uni costs £9k per year and you're only in 2-3 days per week for that? Not bad :P. If you're looking for a course, I'd first say look into mentorships because they are more likely to teach current workflows, plus the 1 to 1 aspect is great. I think the most I've paid for any tutorial online is £20 aside from that game art course. Usually, I find artists who I like on Artstation, browse their work and then stumble across a tutorial they've uploaded or one that links to a tutorial they've made, which you pay for. I've purchased perhaps 5 or so tutorials from Gumroad and Udemy by following through from Artstation. So in hindsight, if I had the choice again, I'd choose to do a course that is focused on a specific area. And if you can find a good mentor, then consider giving it a shot. Before you decide to do a course, first work out where you're at in terms of; your own knowledge, how you feel and what you want to do. Because the chances are there's a free answer out there. I've never heard of Escape Studios before but they look ok and internships are opportunities that not many people get a chance to be a part of. But again, do research into the mentors and what they teach, the software you'll be using etc. There are a lot of courses popping up everywhere nowadays because they know there are a lot of people like us whom they can make a lot of money out of. We're a massive business for them... Just keep that in mind. I've seen a few videos of artists who I look up to and they always say, "it doesn't matter what college or uni you went to, if your work is awesome and you're a cool person, then welcome to the team". In terms of free learning sources... TH-cam, Polycount, Artstation, 80 Level, World of Level Design are my main sources. Hope that helped a little dude :).
Same here, uni taught me lots of theoretical knowledge which I value, like ludology etc, but I learned absolutely no practical skills, I only had one course on 3D modelling in the whole degree and none on concept art. Thank God for channels like this, and for free education.
I’m changing careers to animation. If you can do free or cheaper alternatives. Do it. I’m doing a mentorship from my cousin, and he has worked in stop motion, 3d, and 2D. He is very knowledgeable. I plan to just work with him and help him out to learn rather than go back to school. Also doing some online stuff. No way I’m going back to Uni after how they failed me with my last career choice. Gave me zero skills.
Really, really useful video with so many valuable insights. One of my main take always was the making an effort to go to the pub and network. This is something that continues to hold me back today. so it was reassuring to hear you have a somewhat similar tenancy (valuing your alone time) but still recognise the need to make an effort to socialise.
Yes indeed, socialising is a big part of it. Sure, you can definitely get a job through your skills alone, but it's significantly easier if you have good friends on the inside.
Amazing and informative video that I wish I had seen before. I am currently starting my third year, even tho this video is made for before you start your uni I still can use these tips to my benefits as its not too late. Thank you
oh gosh I can relate so much... I decided to stop after my second year even if I could go to 3rd year bc of this. :/ I always feel like I would never be good enough in this industry and would never be able to erase my debt it haunts me everytime.
This video is amazing. I myself am in a 3d school now and i have no idea what my level is. Am i good enough or am i totally off. It makes me insanely worried about the end of school.
This is an incredibly tricky question to answer, like youre saying. The way you can get some metrics here is to search for junior artists who's doing something similar to what you want to do. Find them on linkedin and see if you can find their student reel, the one they used to get their first job. If you find a couple of them, you'll get a general feel as to what level you need to be at. I also highly recommend posting your work on social media, like facebook groups, artstation and twitter to get exposure and feedback on your work. This way you get a way more accurate view of your current portfolio. Be very careful when it comes to comparing yourself to other students in your school, as that might not be a representative level of the industry. The way I did it was to find some amazing artists online and I tried to strive for that quality by working my butt off, without comparing myself to my peers in school. I hope this helps! :) /Henning
so i know this is an old video but I am currently at a school in Germany -> full CG for 15 months Whole thing is very similar to GNONOM but for like 20K (still expensive, but you arent in dept for the rest of your life) Experienced teachers and the amount of stuff i learned in the past 7 months is insane. I had no experience in 3D at all and we learn like everything -> from Modelling, Texturing, Lighting, Animation, CFX, learned a little bit of classical drawing, Compositing --> almost the full pipeline Yes its true.. you have to put in the hours -> i have classes on sunday and im doing nothing else then working But I enjoy it so much and my progress is so fast -> you can see the differences in days Should you go to CG school -> if you can afford it and if its a good school (meaning alumnis working in the industry etc) and if you are willing to give up your personal life -> YES. YES. YES
Ok when y’all were talking about the tuition cost being 9000 my jaw dropped. I understand there’s a bit of a difference in currencies because I live in the US but some of the schools I looked at tuition was 50000 as a starting point for 1 year.
I've neglected my studies a lot during home schooling (I do 3d animation) now approaching my last year and I really want to punch myself because I regret it cause I have many gaps in my workflow understanding
I'm 100% self-taught. I've been doing 2d vector art in CorelDRAW for about 20 years now (since I was 10) and just started Blender and ZBrush as of last month which I've picked up on fairly quick. I still wanna learn animations and explore Substance Painter more though as a hobby. I use Corel professionally for a job as well as converting 3D art into 2.5D for CNC work, which is why I create objects first in Blender then convert them over to ZBrush to sculpt. Then convert to .stl and import them into Aspire, bake the component, generate the toolpaths, etc. So, in essence, you dont need to go to school, BUT it does help! They'll look at your resume and your professional qualifications. If you have none, you'll likely not be hired. Getting to know people and having that type of reference will definitely help. Another thing is that you should always save your projects and catalog them! This is a MUST!
Went to art school but for a different field, advertising. Graduated but when I started looking for work, my education was below the standards for employment. Most of the stuff they taught me were basically the standard a decade ago. Didn't even learn photoshop 'til I was in my 4th year. But there's also a good thing, they taught me the traditional way; anatomy, perspective, sculpture, etc. Now I'm working for a toy company and planning to try my luck (or skills) on character designing :)
@@sociallyresponsiblexenomor7608 Well, its more about having the focus for 8 hours straight, and 99% of people do not have that, noone can keep focused for that long. You need the grind of 8 hrs just sculpting faces and shit to actually get good at it.
Ive been learning cg stuff via youtube for about a year now. Im applying for a school so I can have a working visa later on. I did a lot of reaserch and found a decent school, looking forward to making some like minded friends. Its 1:30 a.m. but I had to watch this, I like these talks, they shed light on some areas.
FlippedNormals Durham college in Canada, its 3 years. I cant go to Vfs because its 1 year only and I wont be able to get a working visa later on :/ Do u have any specific advice? I could use some right now :)
Sure, here are some general thoughts: - If you're attending the college, make sure that you don't blindly trust the school at all! Do your own research and if something seems weird, make sure that you talk to somebody outside the school to make sure it's all good - Figure out really exactly why you want to go to school and then spend your time really learning what you want to focus on. If you want to become a concept artist, don't spend too much time learning in-depth FX or rigging; spend it on art fundamentals. - Spend some time getting a fundamental understanding of all the steps in 3D, so that you know how it's all connected. - LEARN ART FUNDAMENTALS! I cant stress how important this is. Software changes all the time, but the art fundamentals never change. They are applicable if you do photography, compositing, life drawing etc. - If possible, attend every single life drawing session there is. I hope this helps! :) /H
I attended a school in the states. The school was well taught and very demanding the first year, but I noticed the sometime in my second year the quality of work started to dwindle as the students around me were given passing grades despite their work being exceptionally poor. By the end of that year the school announced it was currently involved in a lawsuit that would end with the campus closing, but they guaranteed to teach out the course until we graduated. Anyone still in their first year would need to either transfer to another campus or drop out. I chose to continue my education for the degree (considering I had already taken out loans for over half of it, I didn't want that money to be a waste.) despite knowing that my skills wouldn't improve much. All of the qualified instructors left and horribly unqualified teachers took their place. The final projects were all team projects and the students had little to none of the required skills resulting in abysmal finished projects. My portfolio show during graduation was the most embarrassing moment of my life. I received a Bachelors Degree that got me a job in banking that I hate. I am tens of thousands of dollars in debt and will be for the foreseeable future. I also grew to hate both myself and the field I had once loved. Do not go to school. If you love this field - push yourself and learn on your own. The resources are out there. Please don't make the same mistake that I did.
I just got into a school called DigiPen, and they say they have 80% placement rate! Lately I've been not sure about whether it would be worth my money to go there, the only thing school does for me that I can't do well on my own is pretty much just enforced motivation. This video validated me lol Also, love discussions like this! It's like a podcast, and I don't know of any podcasts that talk about this stuff
I'd be very sceptical towards the 80 percent claim for sure. Do they have data showing where the students got jobs and in what positions? If they mostly got runners positions or jobs which are barely relevant to what they studied, that's incredibly misleading. Definitely make sure to just power through! And thanks! We are going to do more of these discussions in the future. /H
One benefit to going to a visual-effects oriented school, and by this I mean a private school that focuses strictly on VFX (programs, theory, etc), is connections. Lots of them, at least Gnomon and TTTC, have instructors and owners that are in the industry and have numerous active dialogues with studios in their area, and beyond. So they're constantly recommending students who put in the work and have good reels. And these students' reels are typically put on the top of reels from people who cold-applied. Their reputation is also on the line when it comes to post-graduation job placement rates, so unlike "other" schools that simply chuck students out the door without helping them find jobs (cough VFS), VFX-oriented schools will try to help you out. I know that TTTC, at least, will even hire artists with specific VFX skillsets if you want to specialize in something very particular and need that extra "edge" to make your reel more appealing for employers. Again, though, effort is key.
LMAO I'm $120,000 in dept but at the moment I only have to payback 40,000 until I get a career job starting at 60k+. I currently work just a 9-5 for 22k-24k a year while trying to maintain my sanity and better my skills in 3d. I feel like the guy in a zombie movie that's getting swarmed and chomped on, and doesn't want to turn, and there is no way out, so he pops his self or has someone do it for him lmao....that is what it's like going to school is for art...going to "Art Institute" schools. It's waaaay cheaper to get classes online like CGMA, Mold3d, 3D CGMA, New Masters, Gumroad, Cubebrush...etc.
Absolutely brilliant video I live in the UK and go to college I'm 17. College is very inefficient in the ways it teaches the CG software and skills, I Mostly do extra work outside of college in my own time making projects and challenges learning new software and skills, such as zbrush, Maya, fractals, compositing software ect. Getting into this industry seems difficult and the education system has never seemed more seperated from the work environment. It seems most companies won't even look any further at someone unless they have a degree in something nowadays regardless of what it is because it invokes an impression of tenacity. I have heard of a CG company called Double negative who work on big block buster movies, I don't know if you have heard or worked with them either, but I could appreciate some advise on where I could look for contacts to get my foot in the door while learning all of these skills. I haven't yet specialised as I'm still not exactly sure of what I want to do in this vast industry but I'm absolutely Certain that I would work hard to achieve a position in the industry.
Hey Daniel! So we actually both work on movies for Double Negative in London, so you could say I'm somehow familiar with it :) I think you're already doing the right thing by working your butt off next to school. This is how I got started too. Do tons of personal projects and learn as much as you can on your own. Once you're at a comfortable level, try to get into a smaller studio to get experience and to get your foot in the door. If you want to work in VFX, figure out what position you want to go for and then specialise based on this position. Find people who are experts in the field you want to go into and learn exactly what it takes. In the film industry, we are mostly specialists (I work as a character/creature artist, and not much outside of that). We've written several articles on this, which might help you: flippednormals.com/blog/creative-students-handbook-introduction/ flippednormals.com/blog/the-creative-students-handbook-reels-portfolios/ flippednormals.com/blog/creative-students-handbook-schools/ In short: Work a lot and learn as much as you can, have a goal in mind and then work towards that. You don't have to start at a AAA studio right away; it's absolutely OK to start in a smaller place. I hope this helps! :) /Henning
FlippedNormals thanks for the advise really appreciate it. Very assuring watching the video you spoke my mind. Everything I don't like about the system you brought up in the video which is very assuring as seems I understand quite well. I have a lot to learn still I'm very much a beginner with zbrush and compositing software and have been learning modeling in Maya and digital painting such as Matt painting and concept art. Using the wacom tablet from a 2d plane to a 3d environment was tedious at first but I think I'm slowly getting the hang of it. I kind of dislike pixologic because they have no student liscenses with their software and are expensive so I have to crack it unfortunately because I just have no money and want to learn. If you're interested I can send you a few renders new and old to show you where I'm at currently and where I'm heading if that's ok. Thanks for your kind response really enjoy your content
So glad I found this. Im currently struggling with the idea that I SHOULD have some degree in order to become a concept artist (I’m one of those people who had the you-need-school-to-succeed idea ingrained) but I’m already after a degree in a completely different field and kind of desperate to start making real money :( So the choice is to spend more to hopefully rebrand into another industry or maybe try to do it on my own. It’s all confusing and I wish someone told me you could pursue concept art when I was in high school.
this happens in japan too. usually the teachers are a person who are not able to get a job as an artist, but just got a job as a teacher because the 3D artist's demand is high. I had a teacher who only taught MAYA using NURBS curve. and not even use Polygon modelling. i expected more from them. I studied from digital tutors more in one day, from the school's 4 year program. there is a huge demand of ZBrush / Maya / substance painter but , usually the teachers don't know the software. and teaches some bs methods... and usually school is pricy. but the teachers don't get that payment. which is really bad for students / teachers.
Thanks for your comment! It's interesting hearing the perspective of what it's like in Japan too. It's beyond crazy to me that you can be a Maya teacher with that little knowledge of how anything is done. There's a reason why online training is becoming more popular. /H
Everything said in the video, I personally agree with it all. However, there's this one thing that people don't mention as much and that is to get a Visa when you want to work abroad in your favorite studios. It's been messing me up personally, the thought of it. Because as a self learning 3D artist, I don't have a degree and I hear from many people that it'd be very difficult in my life to succeed into getting a good job in a company I want to work for because most of them are in USA/Ca/UK and not having a degree would definitely cause many issues to get the working Visa. If someone's more educated in this topic than I am, please let me know your thoughts about it. Because when self studying is emphasized a lot, I wonder why this topic doesn't come up as much if it causes so many issues.
As i'm currently studying Game Art at a renowned university, here's my take on that topic. I went into this with quite some knowledge about every aspect of the courses. The beginning really was like "We want to include everyone, even people who haven't even touched a computer", which was fine for me. This went on for a few months, before we actually started using Maya and working in 3D. This started the, in my opinion, worst part(s) of the whole thing. We just got a document with a roughly specified task and some example projects. So far so good. When finished, we got our grades and "feedback" for specific categories. Doesn't sound too bad, right? This "feedback" consists of mostly copy&paste paragraphs with very vague formulations of issues. No examples given, you have to figure those issues out yourself. Even the situations where you are among, if not the best in class popped up for me. And as you already said, it drags me down SO much, it's unbelievable. Why even go there or attend lessons when everything feels like a waste of time? In my opinion, ONLY go to art school, if you have no or just very little experience in the field you wanna study. You'll be stuck being forced to rush everything, not even enjoying it. It's the worst when you already know what you're doing. Everything that was taught in my last year, you're better off learning yourself through relaxed practice. The feeling of just pumping out things based on a dumb document and then not even getting helpful feedback is NOT worth it. Also, at least my school, is just teaching you the technical aspects of the tools. No aesthetics, good design etc. Though i have to say, that art schools in my country aren't as expensive as in the US. It's not even 1/10th in price. But the taught things probably are the same.
Hi, would you make a video about your progress from the beginning to now? It would be really interesting to see the improvement through the school, first job and so on. Your videos are great, thank you for what you are doing.
I'm in my last two weeks of school, and I'm putting my finishing touches on my final exam right now. And I'm kind of torn, I made the "mistake" of taking an online study, since the classroom course were just crazy expensive, and it turned out I were the only student in the online class.. Meaning I got none of the networking opportunities I was hoping for. I also got stuck with a couple of teachers that weren't really interested in communicating with me. It was heartbreaking, and I paid a lot of money, each semester cost me around 4000,- usd. This really sucked, and now in hindsight when looking at my student debt, I regret it. But at the same time I discovered something I truly love (I had no prior 3D experience, and picked the course because it seemed fun), and I'm happy I got experience from working within the frames of a pitch and a set deadline, which a lot of self-taught artists probably will never experience until they're suddenly doing freelance or they're actually hired. Would I attend school again for learning 3D art? Nah, probably not. Most of my skills so far I have acquired through youtube anyway, so I could complete my assignments. I feel like a lot of my time was wasted doing assignments I weren't really passionate about, it's not fun doing three weeks of particles and vfx when you feel like your time would be better spent practicing modelling or sculpting.
I'd say it depends on your individual learning preference. Some people learn best by given a couple pointers and then let loose to learn/improve on their own with very little guidance. Other people learn best by being given a point by point play of what to do and why. My biggest tip would be this: Be VERY careful about costs! It's getting STUPIDLY EXPENSIVE to go to a specialized school (like a CG school, say Vancouver Film School, DAVE School, Gnomon, Full Sail University, etc). For a bonus tip...don't forget to enjoy the little things in life.
I agree I’m 21 and I’m at my last year studying 3D and story telling. If I hadn’t spent time after school and week ends at drawing and sculpting for fun I would still have a shitty level. And I still have to work harder to get real good. Looking after an internship last year was a big slap in my face. I was proud of what I did and had good grades but for the studios I’ve applied to I was shit, it was a revelation to me. I past the next 2 months rebuild everything to show only the best of myself.. and I got one where I learned even more :) Curiosity and really like to keep learning stuff everyday is the thing that keeps me motivated everyday (and the dream to work for big things :D )
Thank you for your comment! :) It's very interesting hearing your opinion on this. The pattern seems to be the same for a lot of people: If you dont work your ass off during school, you wont improve, and the schools gives you an unrealistic view on how easy it is to get a job. I hope you're doing better now and that you're having more luck with internships! :) /Henning
I live in a small town in Australia, currently 22 and I'm debating weather or not I should go to University, with what I found all 3D related courses are located in city areas though. I learned all I know at home from self teaching and tutorials but I wanna learn as much as I can, I can do it online but thing is the main reason why I wanna go to University is to meet people, experience real life and working with others, learn with others and from, and converse with people in person who are interested and crazy about the same stuff I'm crazy about. Can't really get the same energy as you do from online. Plus my socialising skills need some work as do my team working skills and I wanna improve on those, mostly due because of my introverted tendencies and anxiety. I just don't know what to do.
This is exactly the reason it's so hard to talk about uni, as on one hand, it's incredibly expensive, but on the other it could be a really good life choice. I'd say, if you go to good uni (research it well!) and you wont be in debt for life, it could be worth it. 100k of student loans will NOT be worth it in this industry.
Yeah, I might sit on it for awhile then while researching my options, asking around even and see what happens. I really appreciate the response and advice, glad I found you guys. :)
It really depends on your field of study. Animation? Rigging? Texturing? Programming? ALL OF IT LIKE ME AND A BUNCH OF OTHER PEOPLE? I learned everything on my own and am successfully making independent games. There's just so much to learn that even school can't cover all of it unless you specialize. However I got stuck on animation and had 0 experience with Maya when I started, it was too vast and frustrating. (Now it seems so small and neatly organized.) So I paid a great deal of cash to learn just animation at CG Spectrum and it's one of the best decisions I made. Within two months I was competent at animation via my own hard daily practice with a guided tutor to show me Maya. I could have learned it on my own, honestly, but that 2 months smashed the walls down of how long it would have taken.
This is great video! Thx a lot!! I agree with you 120%. In any field you wanna dive in, nothing will lift you to next level as hard work, a lot work (work and work).Yes, we wanna more vids like this.
just getting into 3d modeling i got zbrush and maya.. I was debating on 3ds max or maya. I got the Wacom intous pro pen tablet but I might get this one.. good content. im doing your tutorial with sparten helmet. ..thanks for the knowledge.. God bless you
I think this was a wonderful discussion. Many relevant issues were brought up. However, I think there is another thing to think about. What happens if you leave the CG industry and you don't have a Bachelor's degree? What happens if you get sick of working 60 to 80 hours a week? The bachelor's degree (or Masters Degree), as crappy as it is, does have other benefits. Another thing you should look for in a GOOD school is whether it exposes you to new ideas. Will you be introduced to ideas and concepts that will change the way you view the world? Anyways, great channel, just wanted to add to the discussion.
I've pretty much decided I am going to go to a Brick and Mortar school next year (Herfordshire 3D Animation & Modelling) but there was a lot of great information in this video that I'm definitely going to use and there are definitely a lot of universities/schools here in the UK that I know are just trying to get the tuition fee's from people or having been riding on their name for years now to just get people in the door (...cough...Brighton...cough)
Agree but sometimes with the advancements in both technologies and software techniques. For instance Rendering systems switching from maya nodes to mental Ray to Arnold now can be a bit tricky as lighting/matcaps/utilities switch to a totally different let’s say headache all the time. I opened up a file that I made a while ago with maya nodes. All the objects were bright green. I can’t afford Keyshot but I would rather render my scenes with a software that has a physical camera/lighting. If you have talent. And have been working with the softwares for a while than there’s nothing to stop you Except for print work.
If you feel you absolutely must go to school and get a degree, then I say forget getting an art degree all together, most of the time it's just a waste unless you are already pretty good and focus on networking. By all means take some art electives like life drawing classes and other fundamentals, but instead focus on a more general and practical major with classes that will improve your business and communication skills. Stuff that will be useful no matter what you go on to do. A 2 year associate degree ought to be more than enough for what you need in most cases. It will be way cheaper, take up a lot less of your time, and give you something to fall back on if it turns out your interest in art isn't at the hardcore obsession level you need to stick with it for the long haul. Then just spend all your free time learning and improving on your art. I'd also say if you are lucky enough to still be in middle or high school while contemplating these things, then don't waste your time waiting for school to hold your hand; start taking your art seriously on your own straight away. There is more than enough resources available on the web right now than you will ever need to get quite good at art. But that journey is a long one, probably upwards of a decade before you could confidently carry your own weight at a professional level - 5 or 6 to just be worth considering letting you get your foot in the door (which - if you hadn't noticed - is a lot longer than what most school programs run for).
I always love hearing people who live anywhere but America talking about what they perceive as absurd increases in tuition cost. Here in the US, a full tuition can cost 6 digits at some universities. Land of the free!
Went to a relatively cheap art school, paying about half of what the tuition seems to be for most normal folks for other schools, the vast majority of it is crap but there are about 5 other students I've befriended who I think could really make it in the industry (very talented, very kind) and a professor who's lesson's have been absolutely invaluable and has offerer me industry positions and says he hopes to provide more in the future. I learned most things online but THAT I got from school
I really liked your talk/ podcast, super inspiring and half way through your video I got a notification from LinkedIn that I had just been accepted to join the Cinema 4D group. I'm just about to consider my first post. Thanks Guys!
I'm getting my BA in Game Art and Development...however, I'm also putting in hours and hours every day working on my craft to get better to develop the skills that I learned. Like you've said, you have to put in the work. School is giving me a foundation, but it's up to me to work on becoming proficient.
Wish I'd found this TH-cam channel before spending $12,000 (would have been $30,000 had I not been in a car crash forcing me to withdraw) I've learned more on my own (with a bit of TH-cam help) then I did in school PLUS the prof teaching zBrush himself learned by watching online tutorials... It was a real slap in the face
I think one of the biggest challenges is access to programs. I have ZBrush, Rhino, and KeyShot for ZBrush because they are "relatively" inexpensive and I've learned everything from TH-cam and a few online courses I've paid for. Would love to learn Maya but it is way too expensive and you have to be enrolled in an accredited school to get the free student version. For me, that is the biggest hurdle because all the studios want you to know Maya since that seems to be the industry standard.
That's actually a really good point.. software can be crazy expensive, which is a huge problem for a lot of people, unfortunately. Thanks for bringing it up!
You should buy Maya LT. You can learn the basics of Maya without paying a crazy amount :) I use Maya LT every day at work and it's perfect for modelling for games. Hope this helps!
Learning Blender, at 37 I don't seem myself jumping into the VXF, game or film industry lol. I think there is still a lot of work that could be done as a 3D generalist by working on product & architectural visualization, connecting eco... Got into the game a lil late
pretty sure student version of maya actually works without being accredited a school, or could just write a random school. But on this subject I like that several programs are starting to have noncommercial free software:) Really helps to be able to learn what is needed to get a job within the industry:) or in my case be able to experiment with stuff from home even if I do have a junior position in vfx:P
Seeing this while I start my first 3D class in a very expensive school in the US in a couple of weeks is really making me nervous. I know some people say you don't need school for all this but I feel it will be more difficult for me if I don't to school, but I don't want to make a bad decision here. BTW what are some of the best websites/ youtube channels/ online resources and books were people go to learn everything. I love FlippedNormals too, great job guys! .. Also what do you guys think about the school Gnomon, any thoughts, cons and/or pros?
Hey, thanks a lot for your comment. If you want some good advice once youre in school: - Work your absolute ass off. Take full advantage of the fact that you have time dedicated to learning. - Connect with people online (we have a discord on hub.flippednormals.com) to make sure that you wont get locked into a bubble - which can so easily happen. - Spend time learning core principles (we have a playlist with a bunch of videos on this) - Get a second opinion on your work and dont trust your teachers 100%. - If you see that it's not working out for you, drop out. You dont want to spend 2-3 more years in the school costing you potentially 100s of thousands of dollars just to toughen it out. Debt is a real killed later in life. Gnomon is fantastic - but VERY expensive. I'd only attend it if money wasnt an issue. If I had to take up loans to attend it, I would be very hesitant. No school is good enough to be worth $150,000 in debt, no matter what they might say. I hope this helps! :) /Henning
Great vid guys. Just want to mention few things: 1) Amount of hours you put in does not make you better than others. You will know the program better that's for sure, but we're not programming software here, we're doing Art (based on Creativity + some technical stuff) and you can't teach creativity, let me repeat that.. you can not teach creativity (either you have it or you don't). 2) You forgot to mention how certain Universities have co-op programs with major studios to get their feet wet as interns. This is a huge advantage/benefit that only student get (secured job after graduation). 3) You also not mentioning the permits/residence requirements, which most of these CG studio have for their jobs. It's blatant discriminatory but a reality for many folks out there (no matter how good they are). 4) I agree that a great Portfolio is good for you but you need more than that, including connections and a work permit, that often only a University may offer. That is if you want to work in a studio... if you just want to freelance, then you can earn some good money by yourself without going into that crap (debts for life).
On the topic of not putting in the time or engaging with fellow classmates, what was I supposed to do when I worked a very demanding forklift job? I never had time to finish my assignments or meet my classmates. I've since moved up to District Manager in the 8 years I've been with this freight company; I'm 25 now and constantly reminded that I don't want to be doing this job my entire life and actually get out and meet people.
I'm currently 24 years in age living in the US, and I'm seriously debating on taking 3D modeling courses such as tutorials or mentorships once I get a computer, but I'm so afraid of this because I had disregarded this dream 3 years ago due to life issues that had occured... but as time went on close friends and my older brother told me I should pursue it again 🥺 idk man this is rough
Don't be afraid To start 3d modeling I don't want to force you But i think it could be Good for you And what i mean by that It could be a satisfying process and it could be something that you focus on Instead of the things that happen to you in life. And who knows you might get a job As 3d modeler. You Also Could make Cool projects. The possibilities are endless if you put in the work to learn ect. Im Also starting to 3d model And it's fun it's also gives me something to do. I hope this helps 😁
The school argument is a tough one because Most of the people that would hire you is more concerned about the quality of your work, not where you went to school. BUT!!.. That said!, They do value 'some' schools that always churn out the best artists that are pre-trained, already up to speed with the workflow of their business and can get up and running in their pipeline right away. The problem is that "those schools' are crazy expensive, and will likely put you in debt, something that can sit on your shoulders for the next 20 years of your life, AFTER graduation. Here's the deal. You can learn the software on your own. Most of the best Artist do, long before they go to school, which makes the school itself offer little more than simply the degree. Thing is, that 'little more' is where schools can make your career, as that little more goes a long long way. That 'little more' being Job Recruiters that visit your school to recruit annually. and its really what your paying for, NOT the Art101 lessons, but the 2 opportunities that present themselves both in Junior Year and Senior Year, when Job recruiters come to your school looking for the best artists. In that situation your work is not judged by who knows Hundreds of thousands of applicants, but instead only those few students in your class, and only those who actually presented demo reels. Basically meaning schools enable students work to be seen, while other people must apply for jobs via the jobs own web site, or at best dropped off at a recruiters desk at an annual convention like Siggraph, comicon or g3 , typically getting lost in the sea of other applicants. Schools, the top schools which job recruiters visit annually, pride themselves on being one the few that job recruiters visit every year, and their hired alumni. The best of which willi tout the percentage of students that get hired by recruiters every year. And its why they charge as much as they do, because you the student have the opportunity to actually get your work seen. The other 'little' bonus with going to a school is the value in making friends in school. Yes this one maybe even more important than recruiters coming to the school, Because its more likely for you to get a job if you have friends that can help each other get jobs. Friends even go further than just jobs, as they become a measure to your work. You inspire them and they inspire you. And when they get a job, they make friends who all communicate as to who's hiring and who's not. Basically an inside line to what you need where and when. something you don't have going at it alone. So when it comes to schools. particularly the best ones, its not all about the work which you can learn on your own, rather its about knowing How to work, the perks and amenities of the school itself and the people you meet. Its about your work getting into the hands of job recruiters and actually being seen. Does it mean you will get a job? actually no. But your odds are much greater than going at it alone, The eyes of those who recruit can be looking for specific things that your work does not display. You can be an amazing artist, but if your work is all about copying other peoples work, lifting ideas from known films, with no originality of your own, then despite all your means to replicate others work perfectly, a recruiter may assess you as not being an artist at all, just someone who copies artists who have a brilliant thought process and vision. One recruiter may hate that, looking for artist with originality, another may love that needing someone who can Follow a given workflow and style. You may not be an ARTIST but you do have enough Artistic skills to get the job. or not.
Continued>> As for those who goto school but dont get a job. Thats a real tough one. Because the weight of being in debt falls heavily on ones shoulders. Often forcing you to put your dreams and ambitions aside while you take odd jobs to get by and cover school bills that reduce the quality of your day to day life, debt with no eval. Its without question a bitter pill unlike the person who didnt goto school and is use to working odd jobs and dont have that additional burden of debt reducing their quality of life. You must content with the knowledge of having gone to school applied and not been hired. Its a blow to ones dreams and ego. And your likely to run around in circles wondering where you went wrong in your work. why didnt they hire you. very very bad times to say the least. And at that point school would appear to be the worst thing you could have ever done. BUT, those amenities are still in play. because as an alumni, you have the opportunity to apply again to recruiters that come to your school, the school with its inside information from both recruiters and alumni pass on job information that often doesnt go out to the mainstream public. despite not having got the job during your attendance your still afforded those perks and amenities if you take them. If not then you find yourself in the same position as those who dont goto school accept for one last thing. your degree. which means the recruiter knows your upbringing, knows you have at least gone to a worthy school and have graduated to meet their most minimum requirements. As for the people that dont goto school you have the benefit of no financial burden, and that huge! in terms of quality of life. you have freedom and can maneuver in life as desired since school debt does not force you to take undesired employment paths. If you can get the job of your dreams without school, then more power to you. because what all employers want more than anything is a person with experience.
I completely agree that art school or college can be a waste of time and money. But i'd like to tell the other side of the story. I'm indonesian, graduated from probably the most expensive college in my country. After i graduated i still can't sculpt in Zbrush, doesn't understand what a normal map is. I learned everything i know about game modeling on youtube and jobs. A year after, i got a life-changing job in Japan which requires a working visa which requires me to have at least 10 years of experience or a degree. Fortunately for me, I got the latter. The company hiring you probably won't care about your degree. But for other bureaus, that's all that matters. I'm not saying people need to go to college just in case they'll need the degree. But nevertheless, it's an option worth considering.
Hi! Yes - this is one of the points we're trying to make too, that in order to get a visa, a degree can be a great help. I'm curious, if you didnt learn much in college, what did you guys do during school?
We actually learned a lot of things which is the main problem. We don't have open curriculum here, so we were mandated to learn everything provided by the course. From traditional arts like painting, clay sculpting, traditional animation, etc to 2d and 3d arts. But we only learned the basics, they don't even teach us about specular, gloss maps or texturing in general.
This happened to me with sound engineering school. Paid around 20K USD, taught by "self-taught" individuals, didn't get a job and if i did i'd be slaving, barely pay my student loan, not to mention i have a life to live (rent, food, etc). I was expected to do that for years before something paid off. I know many people who quit half way through ( i wish i had done that) and most importantly more than half the class still didn't know what the hell they were doing by the end of the program. Sad, sad, sad. Oh and international students sometime pay about twice as much. Just insane.
The school's name is Recording Arts Canada. It's located in Montreal. And i find the most susceptible people or rather people who fall for this are the youth, between 17 and 25. Like i was when i attended, and everyone else in my class. My advice for anyone thinking about going to school for these sorts of program (i think your video touched on that) Dont go to school unless you're a professional who needs to brush up on his skills. If you're already working in the industry, i think it's perfect for you. These schools target the youth and sell them a dream that 90% of them will never attain. And of course, they always show off their "students who made it" but no one knows who they are, never seen or heard of them, some of them are made up and like you guys said in the video, its mathematically impossible to not have a few students who are working in the industry, if they've been in business for 20+ years.
This is a tricky subject. There is no doubt that you don't legally need to go to art school/enroll in a "game art" program to get a job in game art. This isn't like trying to be a nurse (need to graduate from a nursing program, need to past the nclex etc...). But I think the question people who want to get in the industry without going to school for it have to ask themselves, "How confident am in my portfolio when I am competing against grads with portfolios and who went to school specifically for game art?" Ideally I would like to believe that when you apply for an art job, the odds of your application being move forward or rejected is entirely or a large portion of that decision making is on the strength of your portfolio so even if you have no degree or no experience in 3d modeling, environment design etc... if your portfolio is what X studio is looking for you will advance in the interview/get the job etc... At the same though you can't help but wonder that if there are studios out there where HR simply culls all the people who either don't have experience or a degree in the field. So if you are applying for that 3d artist role and your degree/experience has nothing to do with 3d art then your application is eliminated right away and your portfolio that you poured everything into never gets looked at in the first place. Put it this way, if 400 people apply for that one prop artist role at Riot, Blizzard, Rockstar etc... then I went to believe that someone will go through each and every one of those 400 portfolios and make a choice from there- but at the same time it would not shock me if HR decided to "trim the fat" before even taking a look at portfolios. So to those trying to make as an artist without school, you have to ask yourself "How confident am I that my portfolio will make it past HR, that even if I don't have that game art degree my portfolio will still be looked at?" Lastly I will say that most of the time when I see a post on LinkedIn about someone entering the art field for the first time ("Dreams really do come true, first day at Blizzard/X studio etc...") when I click on that person's profile and scroll down to the education section the education background is almost always some type of game art, 3d art, game animation- overall "game art" related degree. There really are not to many examples of got a degree in history, English, Psychology then got the Game art job unless the History grad, the English grad etc... went back to school/did some online program for Game art. That is not to say that the English grads, the history grads never do get a job in Game art, I am sure they do but it is pretty clear that majority of first time 3d artist have a degree in or related to game art. So either HR is recruiting exclusively from people who went to school for game art or the game art grads tend to have the best portfolio. And I want to be clear, I am not here to discourage people going for a career in the 3d industry, if it is your passion then I believe it is worth pursing. But at the same time I want to be realistic, there are far, far, far more people who want a job in game art than there are openings- please be aware of your competition, be aware that you are not only competing against people with portfolios but they have degrees in game art as well.
The proposition you raise is called gambling. "Will paying these thousands (or tens of thousands [or hundreds of thousands]) of dollars give me a step ahead of others in my desired industry?" It is by playing on the anxieties that lead to this kind of gambling that allow universities to rake in money from so many different people in so many different fields.
I'm in my second year of college as a 3D game artist and i must say it is the biggest waste of my time. I think i could have learned alot more in a shorter amount of time from watching tutorials or reading books. Most students feel this way and at the end of this year we are forced to go on an internship at a game-creating company while most of us don't even have a proper portfolio yet. We only learn the very basics sadly. Most of the time you need to work on your portfolio outside school but there is almost no time since you end late every day and that combined with homework from other classes it becomes very busy.
This is the exact reason we made this video, as we've seen this exact scenario happen time and time again. It's honestly shocking how bad the state of the educational system is once you actually start looking at it. If a CG school makes you spend most of your time on non-CG related topics, they are wasting everyone's time! CG is way more of a trade than academic exploration.
FlippedNormals Thank you for your reply! I was wondering if you have any advice for going on an internship. I am afraid that i won't be good enough and that I will only bother others with the mistakes i make.
Time is a great value of school, Younger guys and girls might not appreciate this going straight from school to university. I spent time doing my fair share of crappy jobs to realise how valuable having the time to improve on these things is. Improving in the right direction is something else though and what you touched on a lot. Nice video..... If outsourcing retopology to India is becoming standard is it still something you should show an understanding in on your reel?
Hey! You should definitely still have a good understanding of topology if you want to be a modeller. While you might not do as much of it as 10 years ago, it's still one of the core skills a modeller has. We made a video on this last week: th-cam.com/video/s2CYuRxFUSI/w-d-xo.html
I did go to school and I don't regret it because I've met people who today are my best friends. But I agree, you will learn more one youtube FOR SURE. In the USA, schools are so expensive.. I think you shouldn't spend such an amazing amount of money for education (buy food, health care or a house instead). In Europe, some of the best schools offer free education in affiliation with a mid-working contract (formation en "alternance"). It's good because you're working in the industry, plus being at school working in groups of students and you're free to chose what you will do. That's cool. But I believe the only thing is: you're as good as you're being passionate about doing the things you love (art etc). But you have to work and get your shit done. Cheers !
IF you live OUTSIDE US then go to school for the degree. If you want to have a job abroad or in US that is. IF you live in US then no need to go. We all learn BETTER by ourselves with the help of internet (online class) and this kind of channel. Still a Portfolio is the most important and communication as well as personality. IMO this is a must for artist. 1.) Portfolio 2.) Communication 3.) Personality --------4.) Degree (if you live outside US) Awesome video!
Thanks a lot! Absolutely! - I think your raking here is pretty solid. The degree can definitely help if you require a visa, but if you're working in the country where you have citizenship or in a union like the EU, this isn't something you have to worry about.
I thought I did all the research. I was proven wrong. I feel like I know basics now, even some specifics, but it just seems like I'm missing important skills in every single field. I'm in 3rd year and I'm basically teaching myself how to texture and bake maps. We were taught how to sculpt in zbrush and retopo in maya and then they basically were like "here is your finished model" no one told us there were other steps after that, like displacement maps and they still haven't taught us how to make one. It is just so frustrating. I am missing so many bits and bobs and it feels like I have wasted my time and money. I know I'm not good enough and it is keeping me awake at night. I literally don't know what to do...
At least your school taught you how to retopo in Maya or use other methods to modelling. My school only taught us very basic modelling, texturing skills and other skills at a surface level. The teacher never taught us how to make good rigs and animation skills in "3d animation class", feedbacks given from him were not useful either. I can't even find any work from my teacher when I search his name online, and heck he never worked in the industry and only worked at the IT department inside the school. Thank god TH-cam exists so I can learn how to bake maps and create better characters for my animation.
Well, in Norway the rent on your loan is silly low, its basically free money, because the rent is lower than the inflation, so the money you borrow will be worth a lot less in the future when you pay it back so you are basically earning money, and, if you for some reason cant pay back, or don't have a job or get sick, they delete rents or they delete the loan if you are unable to work.
After 30 years your student loan is dropped, also student loan is charged after reaching the £25,000 wage mark in a job (I think this only applies for EU students). Still, its quite a hassle for NonEU. Anyways thanks for your discussion and usual content, kinda inspires me to do more :)
I have a Masters in Design (finished University in 1999) and was recently asked by a family friend about going to university and I really couldn't recommend it. There are so many fantastic resources, lessons, and tools available now online, I've learned far more from TH-cam in the last year than I ever learned on my degree. Companies need to stop saying they want applicants with Degrees for creative jobs. When I hire it is only the portfolio that is important (and personality). btw, Don't send a job application/C.V. without a link to your portfolio!
I just finished general studies high school (gymnazium) and got hired by euro truck simulator as a 3d modeller with no previous 3d experience x'D ..they gave me one month to complete their task and learn maya.. now, I'm self-learning in my spare time
Totally awesome talk!!! BTW, I hold a B.A. in Industrial Design (specialized in CAD-CAM) and I'm taking a Master in Project Management, but I really love digital arts and some months ago I decided to drop a well paid career in Product Design + Engineering and also decided to start a career as a freelance 3D concept sculptor and concept artist. I'm 32 (2018) and I won't do a long course into a school to get into this industry, so, what should I do to get that? I know that I have to strenghten my 3D sculpting, digital drawing/painting and art fundamentals, and also I have to build a great portfolio of fully rendered characters, creatures and objetcs. But which can be the steps to get there or the skills that I must have, from the self-learning point that I'm starting?? I could use some advice for that. :D
Hey Diego! that's a really interesting career move, for sure! Congrats on having the courage to pursue what you believe in :) So if you want to be a concept sculptor, there are two main pillars you have to get very comfortable with: - Figure sculpting. Everything you do is based on a solid understanding of figure sculpting and anatomy. It's really the basis for all the characters and creatures you'll do. While the anatomy might vary a bit between animals and humans, the core understanding of it is the exactly the same. I highly recommend that you check out Scott Eatons anatomy and figure sculpting courses, as they are phenomenal: www.scott-eaton.com/anatomy-for-artists-online-course Next to taking courses, just sculpt like crazy. Do speed-sculpts where you set yourself an hour or two to finish a complete sculpture (doesnt have to look good) and do longer studies where you really get in-depth regarding the human figure. - Design. The second part of being a concept sculptor is to have a solid understanding of design and appeal. If you're being asked to make a 200 meter tall giant, you need to be able to provide them with a lot of very interesting and quick designs. Study already good character designs and figure out what makes them work. Also do tons of your own original designs. We have a couple of tools which can help you, over at FlippedNormals.com. The Creature Kit has a bunch of premade shapes which makes character design a lot easier. Im using this personally a lot on the movies Im designing for. flippednormals.com/tutorial/flippednormals-creature-kit/ Creature Concepting in ZBrush - we cover the overall process we use to design a good creature in ZBrush. It's a whole bunch of theory and practical sculpting combined into one course. flippednormals.com/tutorial/creature-concepting-zbrush/ I hope this helps! :)
Wow...!!!! Thanks for such a detailed and awesome response. Do you think that I can substitute Modo with something else, to keep low my initial costs? (I'm thinking about Substance or Marmoset) On the other side, you think that is necessary to know tools like Substance Painter, Marvelous Designer and Marmoset Toolbag, for concept work? Or they are more production-oriented? Thanks in advance!!! :D
No problem! Glad to help :D Blender is completely free and can do everything modo can, plus way more. It's a bit quirky, but it's also extremely powerful. Keep in mind that no studios are using it, but the same is also true for Modo (at least as their main software). I'd definitely recommend learning Maya (or Max) if you're interested in working in production, but if you're a freelance artist, that's less important. Have a great weekend! /H
Personal experience: Finish school, get pressured by parents to go study. Wanna learn 3D modeling/level design, options are limited. Find a college with bachelor on GameDev that has 3D modeling class on second year. Bingo!. sign up. And then it hits: quality of studies is lower than in school itself, and the other classes... scripting, databases, HTML, etc.(I am an artist ffs) At scond semester I question myself what the hell am I doing there. Friends suggests to go for a QA in Unity. Actually make it. And thing kicks off: amazing people, good salary, I am near the industry that I dream of. Networking is through the roof. Meet engine devs that worked in triple A companies, made the games I grew up on. This gives me fresh air, reminds me of what I seek. Since college is pile of ... waste of time, take a gap year. Hit Blender tutorials with double enthusiasm. After a while friend invites to work in their indie studio in Sweden junior 3D, conditions are way worse but hey its The Window, take it or leave it. Take a second gap year because my college is kind to allow it, move to sweden, be modeling for half a year. Get my game on the next level, find a job offering for low poly mobile game company(advertisement does not include company's name), hit it just for sport's sake, can I make it or not Actually do make it. Now I work for SuperCell and never been more happy. No one ever asked me if I have finished a single thing. Everyne I talked to just asked for my ArtStation. This fall I have to continue my studies or pay and leave. Thanks god studying is dirt cheap compared to what you spoke in the video. Guess who is not wasting his time and leaving the college?
Ive been really stressed out about going or not going to a school for months now, one of the problems is not knowing many schools. And you cant always find them easily unless they are amazingly good. But the biggest problem I have is I know my work is'nt up to standards and Ive been Goofing around with little to show for. And its a huge thing to spend years paying for something that isnt emediately paying off. It also doesnt help that ive lost a clear direction of what I really want to do, (a school can help me explore that possibly) Allot of the schools im interested in have a "project" kind of way of teaching. The first year will have normal classes, but afther that it will just be projects and no classes. In one school "they will teach you when you ask for a certain thing, if you want to learn interfaces you'll have to ask and then they only teach whichever you need at that time for your project" I Dont know how I feel about this aproach of teaching. the student work seems really good. They only take the best in. But im afraid that with the schools I might choose the first year seems really good, exploratory and has all the new classes and things to try, but then you have 3 more years of just making projects. wich may or may not be good for your portfolio, and in one case the school owns your work (games), so you can make a part 2 if you ever want to sell it, but not sell the original. Im sorry for the long post, but I dont really know what to do anymore and id like other views on this if possible Thank you
@@FlippedNormals Im located in holland, thinking about Breda University of Applied Sciences, or else a more traditional / illustrative study in an art academy. Ive also visited HKU - Hogeschool voor de Kunsten Utrecht, wich also has "game art" but the student work wasnt as good as in Breda. so Id rather do a more illustrative study there then and develop my art.
In the US, student debt is a bubble which is currently at 1.48 trillion dollars. Kids are taught that they're worthless without a degree, and a top art school costs about $160,000. Student loan debt can't be easily discharged through bankruptcy, so it's a great business for the schools and the banks. Not only do you have to be good enough to get hired at a studio, you also have to live in an area where there are plenty of studios because a lot of positions are short-term based. It wouldn't be terrible if a lot of those art school behemoths in the US would just collapse. The quality of online education is phenomenal nowadays.
Im currently going to a school that teaches both cgi and programming and since exams in programming are quite hard I spend so much time learning programming when I actually want to spend my time focusing on sculpting, modeling and learning animation
I'm in 4th year in a 3D design course now and I'm no where near the skill level I would have expected to be at, I realised that the course wasn't teaching me anything real fairly quick and I was just wasting my time ticking boxes to pass, but unfortunately there wasn't an alternative course I could do where I'm from so I'm just in it for the degree at the and so at least I could work abroad after I spend a couple of years getting my skills up to scratch, on the bright side I've only really waited my time and not put myself in massive debt
I had the opportunity to study in Vancouver (either of the two big ones in that city) and I still do. The thing is, I declined because of how expensive it would be. I didn't even know if I wanted to get that kind of job as a 3D modeler (getting hired by those companies isn't the only way of being a 3D artist). I'm doing quite good, and my skills are helping me a lot on the freelance world as I practice and grow. But sometimes I still wornder if I made the right choice, or if I'm foolish to let go an opportunity like that one. I mean, I already knew 3D and wasn't terrible. And surely I would've learned and improved a lot there, but would it have been even close to compensate for that insane price?
Hey, guys. Love the videos. Direct, to the point and pulling no punches. I do have a question that really isn’t related here so forgive me for that. I am learning Maya on my own through TH-cam videos and I am starting to learn Zbrush to help with my meshes. I’m getting somewhat comfortable with the tools I use most in Maya; I’ve only been at it for two months. I’m now getting to the point where I am thinking about size and dimensions and how important they are. For example, you make an interior of a room. You know the ceiling is eight feet and the thickness of the walls are four inches and the doors and windows are whatever. The question I have is, how important is it to get exacting sizes and how do you do that in Maya? I know how to use the measure tool but that’s after the fact and it may not be as accurate as I want it. Is there a way, like in CAD programs, that you can tell Maya this wall is four inches thick or this counter is this high. If not, how do you guys do it? Thank you for any help you can give. Joseph
Hey Joseph. Thanks a lot for your kind comment! :) So most of time, I find that accurate measurements aren't *that* important, unless you're trying to replicate something specific, like a camera or an exact room, etc. Most shaders today are physically based, so they do take overall scale into consideration, but if a wall is 4 or 5 inches, that's not going to matter a whole lot. The exception to this is if you're using sub surface scattering (SSS); it matters a lot if an ear is 5mm or 3 cm thick :) It's more important that you're working in real-world units though, so that the lights and shaders respond in an accurate manner. I prefer to set my units to CM in the preferences, as one Maya unit is now 1 cm. I hope this helps! /Henning
the keyword you mentioned is 'trustworthy'... there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding/misuse of this concept... people are not worthy of trust until they have proven that to you... it is at your own risk if you just assume other people are trustworthy until you find out differently... especially for such life decisions as... your health... career directions... large expenditures... and so on... the only really trustworthy person for these things is yourself... and if you can't trust yourself... you certainly are not in any position to trust someone else... might be brutal... but it is the truth.
Hi there! thanks for the video explaining about Schools. Overall, I could agree that School is so expensive these days especially in my experience as an international student myself that even more expensive than domestic students. Aside from that I'd like to know how to get in the industry if you are self studying. Portfolio is definitely the first thing to pay attention to. but how do we get recognition from employers especially from abroad? How to deal with paperwork (especially work permit and stuff like that). I'd appreciate if you could elaborate more on it. Darius
What are your thoughts on India regarding this, as I want to be an modeller artist but as you said most of the studios do the retopo and other jobs, and higher end studios(disney, pixar) are not here. can I work here for a while and then apply for studios abraod?
Great talk you guys, seriously I think I learned a lot and I think you really helped me. I have a question though and I really want to know everyone's opinion about this one because I want to get as much feedback as possible. My question in so: I have been doing 3D for around 3-4 years now and I don't think that I am professionally good enough to work at a triple A studio or anything like that but I don't think that I am bad. I have acquired a lot of knowledge when it comes to 3D and the tools I use to make the things I want to make. It seems to be going well for me but I have a huge dilemma - I use Blender. I feel so comfortable and efficient when I use it and I think I can do great things with it but no one is hiring people who use it, and because of it I am afraid nobody will hire me. Am I forced to switch to Maya or 3dsmax? I really want to know what you guys think here. Say you were as good as you are right now but in Blender - would you get hired or would you have to do something about it? Thanks everyone!
Hey! Thanks a lot! I'm glad it's helpful :) So keep in mind that you don't have to go from a hobbyist/student to working at a AAA studio, as very few people do. I'd say a better way is to join a smaller studio and then go from there. The truth is though that you will have to learn either Max or Maya. In VFX, we exclusively use Maya (apart from maybe the odd studio here and there), so I'd highly recommend that you learn the tool of the trade. To put it like this, when you apply for jobs, you have so many other people competing with you and you want to be as strong as possible. If there are two equal candidates, but one can start from day 1 as he knows Maya and the other will spend 6 months getting up to speed, you're at a disadvantage. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that Blender is worse than Maya, just that good knowledge of the tool a studio uses will be a huge benefit. I hope this helps! /Henning
Whoa thanks for the quick reply! Hmm I see. This makes sense to me and I do want to be the best I can be so I will do it! I think I really needed to hear it from someone in the industry so I really know what I should do next (even if its not what I hoped to hear haha). Thank you so much! I will definitely work on porting myself into Maya and be more flexible to the industry's needs in the future haha :D
I'm kinda in the same place as you are, I have a good workflow and reached a speed at which I'm really comfortable. I don't even feel limited in any way by Blenders capabilities, but I think I'll have to convert to either max or Maya in the long run, because only indie studios and a few other companies use blender. I've heard that it's okay if you use blender, as long as it doesn't interrupt the studios workflow, but I don't really have the experience...
Portfolio is more important in the mind of your employer and customer than paperwork, like degrees and certs. Your portfolio is the face of your working capabilities, whether you work in art, production, or sales.
"You aren't allowed to drink but you're allowed to make financial decisions that will haunt you for the rest of your life" Damn, what a quote.....
It's true though, isnt it? Being a lot in debt from a very early age can significantly cripple you later in life - which is an insane choice to make when you're in your teens.
Yes! Its crazy!
God yes. I entered uni at the age of 17 here in Australia. I legally couldn't drink but I'm already about maybe 9-12k in debt.
@@irismartyn4088 but how that much?
@@steve00alt70 uni is expensive in Australia. Luckily we have student loan called hecs so nothing is out of pocket, but the subjects for me cost 2-4k and I was doing 4 (minimum required)
Great video. And as a former art institute student, I will ride on the previous comments by also saying to avoid them like the plague. Absurdly overpriced tuition, predatory tactics, and an "education" that is not even close to up to snuff. You're better off learning from youtube exclusively or looking to schools in Europe as the US schools are way too expensive. Another alternative is also taking CGMA classes. You don't need a degree in this field, so save your money.
Thanks for your input! It's very interesting hearing from people who's gone through one of these expensive schools. It's amazing what you can learn from online training today (Such as FlippedNormals *cough cough*)
Haha indeed. Online training is honestly what helped me get my first industry job right out of school. I could have very well ended up as another student horror story had it not been for Gonomon, TH-cam, 3dMotive, etc. Again, massive props to you guys for putting out this video, I wish i could go back in time and show to it my high-school self.
I will add in to this.
please dont do 100% youtube. use it as a side thing.
Find a website like Pluralsite. Learn the basics , work flows of the programs.
Then go find a website directly taught by the Artist. Like Ryan Kinglien and stuff. This are more of workshop classes that help teach you the art side and the industry side. So you can become better.
Just youtube will have you all over the place.
Jan Wyss, 100%
I really want to drop out of my art school, because they didn taught the fundamentals well at all, and had us learn many unrelated subjects. For example, we didn learn any techniques shown in scott robertson's perspective book and they expect us to design and paint characters, creatures, vehicles and environments. But i really want to work overseas like in US as they are really no job opportunities in my country but i need a degree to be a working visa in other countries, i really hate this...
I am mainly self-taught in CG. I read from many books and watch many video tutorials.
That's a great way to learn CG :) Far cheaper than attending school, for sure.
That's my favorite kind of apple.
Which books do you read?
WhoFedHacker I use mainly open-source softwares, none of overpriced rentals. I find some good books in Amazon. There, I always read highly critical reviews before buying books. I used to buy magazines like 3D World, Computer Art, etc.
I’ve been taking pursuing a career in the animation industry a lot more seriously recently and this video has been EXTREMELY helpful. Even though I am not a VFX artist, this is some really valuable information. Thank you so much for sharing!
Speaking from experience, Truth is you don't have to.
If you are very self motivated, you can learn everything on your own. EVERYTHING is online now, even critical feedback from top artists in the industry. Clients only care about your talent and skill, and your portfolio will speak for itself. Traditional art skills is still more desirable than technical mastery of cg tools.
However, if you are the kind of person that is not self motivated and impatient, then your learning curve will be much slower than someone who is forced to study and work at school. Also the best thing about school is the social environment you get to hone your maturity in, and the social network you get. Definitely prepares you to deal with the office environment much more than if you are just home schooling on your own, which in my opinion does the exact opposite, makes you rusty on dealing with the politics of an office environment. But of course, you can always go "freelance" and see if that works out better for you.
Thanks for your comment! We agree with everything you just said now, and it's a pretty good summary of the video. All the info you need is online, but schools are fantastic for networking and meeting friends.
Yeah, that was a main reason I wanted to go the route of a class, my productive side had been falling behind a lot on me over the last few years, and I felt like it needed a firm kick, and what better way than to have rigid deadlines I can't just keep pushing off, which is what a class environment could provide.
Also been a great way to help push me out of my comfort zone to try more things I might of otherwise just pushed to the side to try 'someday'.
I went to art college and took a course in fine art and design. It was hugely deficient.
After college, I re-taught myself to everything and unlearned bad habits. I am familiar with the old-schooled ways of sketching and painting, portraiture too. I had read many vintage art books that were very useful. Also, I picked up tips from renown traditional artists, some whose artist parents gave them old-schooled training. One elderly nun in high school gave me traditional art training which was more than I had ever picked up in art college. In her art classes with tight rules, I practised lots of cross hatches in pencil shading, but no joining the ends of hatches. Also, I was forbidden to use eraser during exercises.
Most art schools today *DON'T* teach right the skills in traditional art, nothing like what Andrew Loomis, Joseph Redouté, Hans Holbein, Caravaggio, and other old masters were taught in their old days. They don't even know how to ink comics the old Marvel way.
When I watch videos of today's Disney's key animators roughing out their sketches, they are drawing hairy outlines instead of sweeps of bold quick strokes. Their pace of sketching is *TOO LEISURED* by pre-1950s' art school standards. Some don't even hold the pencils the right way, the bad habit resulting in Artist's Callus on fingers.
Traditional art training is immensely useful to anybody in CG. In 3d modelling, I start character from a hip and work my way outwards. Sometimes, I start from feet up to head, while most artists today normally start from head to feet. I choose only whatever ways that are economical and quick. In portraiture, I start from nose which is the most central feature; from there, I work my way outwards. That way is *BETTER* and *QUICKER* than starting from eyes, especially when you are working on a moving sitter who won't sit or stand absolutely still for you. It is truly the old-schooled way.
Guys, this is pure gold. I was about tO go out for jogging, and I was writing a comment tO suggest you to put these talks on sound Cloud, and ...oh wait, it's already There! Great job , really.
Haha :D Exactly! We figured it would be nice to have as a podcast too and not just on YT. Also, thanks! Much appreciated.
/H
Don't go to school, learn online. Learn ART fundamentals. I did everything the "wrong way" and still ended up working on Black Panther due to my art skills and being a pleasant person to be around (I think! :P) Now I will say this if you are purely after a "job" then yes maybe go to the right school and you can be a cg clerk for the rest of your life... but if you are trying to be a competent artist and this is a lifelong ambition mind you not something you do for a job... then learn everything you can. Great vids guys!
so cool man Ive been folowing you on artstation for at least 2 years.
I can't agree more with you - the key is to learn art fundamentals. If you don't have them, everything will feel like a struggle. That was one of the main reasons I went to school actually, as I wanted to learn the fundamentals. Technical 3D you can always learn from courses, but the fundamentals can be tricky to get by yourself.
Also congrats on your success so far! You have some lovely pieces on ArtStation :)
/Henning
Cheers, buddy!
Thanks Henning... you guys are killing it! Look forward to seeing more work from you guys and always a pleasure to see more Flipped Normals content pop up on my feed!
Thanks a lot, man! Much appreciated. Looking forward to your input on our future videos :)
/H
Would love to see you guys talk about good habit vs bad habits to learning CG and how to make the most of your time learning especially for all the freelancers or self-taught individualds.
digging the new wave of videos Henning and Morten!!
Thanks a lot! We really appreciate it.
Man oh man, if only I heard this four years ago. xD A lot of what you guys touched on about colleges for CG is very true and it's something I'm going through right now. Luckily, I have an indie job that pays decently...but I'm nowhere near being able to hit the companies in my area.. I figured it's going to be another 1-3 years or so of working on my portfolio before I can reach my dream company. Which is super sad because the college I went through wasn't very cheap at all, was supposed to be this amazing college that has a ton of companies like Bungie, Blizzard, Amazon, start ups like V1 Interactive, etc. come through and the college is always like, "Oh we make the best of the best and because of it, everybody who graduates gets in with a triple A company!" Not very true, unless you're a programmer at that college. It was good for networking, which is also super important for getting a job in the industry. I've seen people with mediocre skills get jobs just because of the people they knew.
During my studies, I always had to do a ton of self learning because the professors weren't doing a good job. To this day, I'm having to go back through and fill holes that should have been filled in my freshman/sophomore year. I know they changed their BFA program a bit, but it's still not really worth it. You can spend less money and get good quality information through things like Cubebrush, Pluralsight, TH-cam tutorials even, books like Valorie L Winslow or books through 3Dtotal, forms, etc. I've been using a lot of these things and it has helped a ton.
A really inspiring talk to listen to while I am working on my projects! Would love to hear some more.
Parts of this talk are very recognisable.. I went to an awful university first. Although it was cheap because it was in The Netherlands. It was absolutely one of the worst games art universities but I only realised that after the second year, because I had no experience and knowledge about the games industry beforehand.They showed off all these people that had worked at Guerrilla Games, who did indeed maybe attend the uni but only for one or two years. Most of them failed the uni because they did so much work at home evading the essays etc, but it did gave them proper jobs at big studios. Now the uni uses their names for their marketing
Now I'm attending an university for my MA in the UK that is one of the top Games Art courses and everything that I learned at my BA in four years they showed me how to do properly in 4 months. Getting proper feedback and have motivating classmates around you is so important!
(Yes I know a MA is useless to have in the industry, I have my own reasons for doing this)
Thanks for your comment! I feel you're spot on here: You often don't realize the course is terrible until you're a few years in, or worst case, you've finished it. When you're a rookie, it's impossible to judge the quality of the course.
This is also the exact thing we're talking about in the video: Just because somebody now works at GG, doesnt mean it's related to the school. I've met very talented people who are where they are not because of their school, but DESPITE their school; they actually felt their uni was hindering their career. This is obviously not true for all schools, but for far too many, this story repeats itself.
I'm glad that your current course is a lot better than the former one! Can I ask which school youre attending now?
/Henning
I'm attending the University of Hertfordshire. The nice thing with the MA here is that it is actually just one full year. There is only MA class one morning and one afternoon, mostly for learning academic research and doing bigger projects. However we can attend every class of the BA from their first to third year, which really made it worth its money for me. It's nice seeing companies coming in, doing live briefs for companies etc. It's useful getting direct feedback from the industry, while being in a safe environment.
Also an interesting note maybe; As soon as i put "Hertfordshire" on my LinkedIn/Artstation profile I got a lot more traffic/ freelance offers.
Ah cool! I've heard a lot of good things about Hertfordshire; it seems like one of the few courses in the UK which is worth attending. Glad you're having a good time! :)
My husband and I talk all the time about how much money we feel like we've wasted going to school.
If you CAN, don't. IF you have a mentor or can learn by yourself, do it. You're going to save yourself from possibly hundreds of thousands of $$$ creating "school projects" that you will never look back at and think "Oh yes I can put this on my portfolio."
On the good side of school, College is where I met some of my best friends, met irreplaceable connections, and even got recommendations for some of my first freelancing jobs. I grew as an artist because I was forced to learn things I may or may not have wanted to learn. It pushed me to learn 3D and understand the different elements, even if my discipline doesn't revolve around most of it. It's also such a valuable source to have instructors help you face to face because they can truly explain to you things that pertain to YOUR project that saves hours of research for (possibly) one simple answer.
There are so many resources out there now though; We have books, video tutorials like here on TH-cam, Lynda.com, Pluralsight.com, CGCookie, I could go on and on.
A lot of artists in College in their free time will learn different trades this way anyways, so why not try before getting into school? (If you're interested).
If you are learning 3D, join clubs. Join discords. Get out there and ask people to genuinely help you out and most people will. There are so many opportunities for either, college or not. Nobody is born knowing Blender or Maya, or whatever. Anybody learning art is going to take the same steps of "learn, practice, work". So, get out there artists, do your thing!
Hey, I couldn't agree more with your comment. Unfortunately we see way too many people who feel they wasted an insane amount of money going to art school. The resources your mentioned are absolutely worth their weight in gold, as the information they present is at least as good as most universities, if not a lot better.
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You guys are awesome. I've only recently decided to try my dream at working in this field. I have been doing this as a hobby for years, dreaming of it becoming a career. My husband went to college for art and he hated it, leaving with skills he, for the most part, already had. He is very talented at creating realistic and beautiful skins, textures, and designs. For him this video is 100% right and he made it no where by going to art school, people only cared about his quality of work.
My dream is to work on video games, to understand how to create a well designed model, character, etc for any potential job.
I've been practicing day and night, watching videos and learning from your channel as well as many other sources.
My dream is to help make beautiful video games, but ultimately to produce a game with my friends, my husband, and hopefully be successful. I need more experience first, I need skills I dont yet have.
We all share this dream, we are anxious to work hard and learn our trade so we have something to bring to the table.
I'm stuck though, while I know my practice has made me better over time I'm still very unsure.
What, in y'all's opinion, is a good place to start? Freelance work, CG clerk, applying directly to studios, etc. What is the best option that you know of; I have no clue where to begin.
I know I'm not a great artist like you guys, I have taught myself everything I know.
My biggest concern is starting somewhere too advanced and failing, getting a bad reputation.
Or starting too low and ending up never going anywhere, in a place that doesn't challenge me or give me anything to learn.
Thanks guys, even if you dont respond, I always appreciate the videos.
I will keep working and hopefully someday I can look back here with a copy of my own game being sold.
Its nice that u aspire to be an artist
I loved drawing from a young age In elemwntary school we had this class were we wrote a small text about a topic and then we drew something similar to the topic i loved that so much when it was the time to draw ever since i was the picasso of the school Untill i gradueated i went for coding in uni and i hate it I do 3d now as self taught
My theory is that school makes u hate every bit of the trade u want to be When i joined uni i remwmber that the teachers made me hate the lessons But i mean i like art more anyways compared to coding
I feel kinda lost on how to get a job even in a small studio after improving my skills tho
In my own judgement u should focus on marketing ur art and selling ur own art first Its a + if u have people in ur circle to form a mini indie studio
I wonder how much u have improved and if ur doing well after 3 years have passed
I’m studying at Full Sail University. You’re video’s have helped me understand this stuff very quickly. Thanks for all the help so far.
This is one of the best CG channels I have ever found! You are helping me so much!
Amazing! :D That makes us really happy to hear. Thanks!
I went to school to get to be around individuals who had similar goals to me, I choose my school for what I thought were the right reasons. Every art class I took I felt helped me towards my goals, until I hit my CGI course, the instructor knew less than I did to the point where I lead classes with the teacher following along with the rest of the class and asking me more questions than any other student.
I ended up teaching so much that I never worked on my own portfolio, my lesson plans were mostly off the cuff and focused on questions posed by the class. Now I work in a completely different field with very little ability to apply any of my knowledge. So my word of advice is try and sit in on a high level class before you get through 75% of your coursework without a safety net in place and nowhere to go.
Thanks a lot for sharing your story. It really breaks me hearing the very real consequences of bad CG/art schools. Students aren't just pawns in a game, but very real people who suffer very real consequences as a result. Are you doing CG in your spare time now, or have you quit completely?
/Henning
Yes, you can learn all the technical skills you need online. But school is very good at forcing you to work, it motivates you and makes you work with people you usually wouldn't work with. It teaches you professional practice and how to work with others. You'll struggle to develop that working at home by yourself on a solo project.
Learning how to work with others and deal with team members who aren't pulling their weight isn't something you can learn online.
It also gives you structure, and something to follow. You just have to go to the right uni.
I went to uni, but I also did a load of online courses/ tutorials in my own time because I wanted to be the best I could be within 3 years. It annoyed me that alot of the things I learnt online weren't taught at uni, but I still value what I learnt from going to uni. It's great life experience.
So I think it's worth it, but only if you work hard, attend every class, and don't expect going to uni to be a one way ticket into the industry. You still have to work hard in your own time to get a job.
bigben xxl what university you went?
I'm pulling out my hair reading the comments. I have a masters and work for one of the top entertainment brands in the world. I know people who own their own companies and have ivy league degrees. It is possible to earn a degree and study as you please. There's also an assumption of working in the arts because we studied the arts. I am happy to have a broader education. I don't want to be the audio engineer who only studies music and ends up a** out when the industry shifts.
"But school is very good at forcing you to work it motivates you?" what a Bulshit! Bulshit asf!! probably your motivate coz of the debt and tuition you waste and also time yes it motivate.....thiers so many things that can motivate you!!...
Who are you to say what motivates someone else?
Exactly, if you have to be motived to do something. Maybe it's not the field or something you should do.
I feel like what you guys are talking about is so true, but the thing is, making these wise decisions, doing your research properly, having proper insights and doing good cost/benefit analyses, these are things that most 16-18 year olds haven't figured out yet... and educational institutions know this. It's a sad state of affairs and a trap I myself am still stuck in. By the time these students come to realize their mistake, they're already in too deep. Lucky are the viewers who watch this vid and have yet to pick a college. Anyway, thanks for all your info, a few vids from you guys have indeed taught me more than my "art education" taught me in 3 years. They don't even understand the concept of sculpting.
From my experience, I definitely cant recommend college. I'm 3 years into college, the first year I went to a foundation course, learned a variation of skills but the lecturers couldn't teach specifics for the life of them, AKA; The lecturer teaching animation/ anything to do with software was the graphics design lecturer... so he knew the literal bare minimum on each thing. Year 2, I got into second year at an IT doing animation, because they needed more numbers and every lecturer I talked to in the colleges and unis said that animation was the closest thing to concept art (which I really wanted to do)... I spend 80% of my time animating... 19% sculpting and 1% concept... I still do my own stuff in my spare time but that seriously cant compare to concept designers who spend 12 hours a day on their craft.
I decided to move into 3D because of the things the college taught, I enjoyed that and I picked it up really quickly. It didn't help that the college hired someone who was fluent at 3D Studio Max to teach Maya... The college uses Macs and 3DS Max doesn't work on Macs and we couldn't exactly learn Max from him (In his defense the college didn't say he would be teaching Maya so I would blame it on the art department for poorly communicating the job details). We just finished year 3 and I don't have the skills I need to land a job. I can't use Zbrush, Substance Painter, etc. which the college has refused to touch (which im learning in my spare time now) I'm being pushed by my parents to do 4th year, because they are convinced that a piece of paper with a stamp of approval from an institute of technology will get me a job in art.
I think I did earn some valuable experience from college, it did force me to learn to figure stuff out for myself and it got me aware of events where I could meet other artists from the industry and different colleges, and it sorta taught that having a deadline (no matter how long) can be good motivation to work harder. At the same time, a 2 hours video of how to self-teach would have also done the trick. I will convince my parents to let me take a year out (if they don't threaten to kick me out of the house again) to work on an actual portfolio because college has been dragging my standard down the drain in the areas I actually want to advance.
Being a teacher in one of the smaller, cheaper 3D/VFX schools in Europe, this was very interesting to listen to. It's absolutely ridiculous that some schools can get up to 100k or even more. Hell, even 50k is too much, if you ask me. In my humble opinion, no one should ever actually acquire a crippling debt without any guarantees and there are no guarantees in this field.
One thing I cannot agree more about is parents and grades. I would honestly just eliminate grades from our school and just leave nothing but feedback in evaluations of student works and reels. But parents seems to always demand grades and it's seems to be futile to explain to them that no one, literally no one will ask for their kid's school grade while considering hiring them.
Interesting discussion, guys, thanks!
Thanks Nick - Much appreciated! Its really interesting hearing your perspective from a teachers point of view. Do you have any ideas on how to improve general education in our field?
/H
Good question, but I don't think I have any idea how to improve it overall :D
The thing is those kind of predatory schools that you mentioned don't understand that there is a symbiotic relationship between students and the school. The school has a self-interest in making sure its students have impressive reels and go on to work for big studios, because then the school itself has an impressive reel and its students can give positive feedback about the school, especially to big companies. The problem here is that, as you've noted, some students choose the schools so carelessly that they don't even take interests in reels. The school that does not show a student reel (and a good one at that) should never be able to get a single student, but this is more of a problem of capitalism overall than of VFX. We assume that the market will balance itself out and the bad products will disappear, because there will be no buyers for them, however this assumes that all the consumers are educated and rational ones and nothing could be further from the truth. Sadly, there will always be people from whom such businesses will gain.
As for the overpriced schools, I have no idea how it got that bad, but I suppose that's not only a problem of VFX either and has more to do with social phenomenons of which I'm unaware.
P.S. I think my students loved your channel! Will probably make my job easier :D
I actually got a degree in game design but then decided several years later to get into art. I started off self teaching with online tutorials to get up to date on my tools, but realized I needed a bit more structure. My job gave me access to Udemy, but even then it felt too loosey goosey. I got back into online classes only because with my transferred credits, I was able to focus entirely on art courses and get my BA degree in 1 single year of classes for a pretty low cost (relatively). The program is pretty accelerated, so it has a lot of holes, but ive used it to help structure my own studies on the side with various tutorials. Many of the professors have also helped answer questions that youtube or reddit have failed me in. So my case was prettttttty lucky in school being a worthwhile endeavor, but idk that I'd suggest an entire, expensive 4 year program unless you're SURE you're passionate about it and have no idea where to start / struggle with intrinsic motivation.
I feel like the top reason I would consider going to school is just for the social aspect. To be around people and make good friends. That's honestly the only thing that really has me torn right now. I feel as if it's far better to learn on my own but then... how do I get to know people? How do I stay sane by myself?
Honestly, thats one of the best reasons for attending a uni. It's really fantastic for that.
Sorry to necropost but this is absolutely one of the main reasons I started to go to Full Sail. It really bears down on you to network and put yourself out there, get known and find a job. Not a lot of unis really do that though which is questionable as to why they are teaching students how to regurgitate information in tests instead of teaching them how to work in their field.
You guys are awesome. I have your podcasts running while I work...and yes I am learning from youtube videos like yours because of all reasons you explained so nicely here. Keep up the good work!
I feel I've wasted 3 years of my life at uni, even though I graduated. They taught very little about 3d modelling, plus what they taught were out of date methods. If I had the choice to learn via online sources such as courses and youtube, I would. But I was pressured into staying on at uni by my parents because it was seen as "the way to get a job and be successful in life". For this industry, it simply isn't the case. The only upside to going to uni, was meeting the other students.
My advice if you're considering going to uni, be sure to know exactly what they say they'll teach you, plus who your tutors are. Because from my experience, I had tutors who were ex-students from the year before and they were terrible tutors. This video highlights exactly my experience in that respect.
After uni I chose to take an online course focused on 3d modelling and game art that lasted 3 months. And from that ONE course I felt that I learnt more than I did in the 3 years I was at uni. A lot of my friends from uni felt scammed by choosing to study there. So, to those thinking about going to uni, look into online courses first (hell, even free sources and forums), and get a good idea about what discipline you want to follow. You'll save time and money, guaranteed.
Shannen Matnarudin thanks for posting your experiences. I keep coming back to this video to see what people are saying. I think what might be a nice idea, if possible on this video, is to create a poll of opinions as to which 'online course' destination people are using. I'm sure this info is also on forums as well though. Would you be willing to share which course and uni you studied Shannen? Perhaps also your online destination? It gets real hard to decide.. Udemy, course era, future learn, open university, pluralsight. A lot of those I listed are wide ranging (business, art, IT , etc, ) whereas a couple I heard of recently 'Animation Mentor' and the expensive 'Escape Studios' (run by a college I'm London) (postgrad) course, are dedicated to 3d. Escape studios in particular, just to look at it for moment... They have industrial links with MPC, THE MILL, and ubisoft (in games) where they take students on directly to those companies as interns. Quite special. But veeeery expensive. Escape studios course for example (1year, £10k), even £15k for one of their courses. AnimationMenor though I've heard from 2 people who made it into rockstar games (North) afterward. *talent obviously not a direct result of the course.
Hey dude :). My course at uni was games design, so it was really broad in a sense. Initially I was told we'd learn about 3d, which I was stoked about because I wanted to become a 3d artist. But we barely covered it during my time there. I tried persuading my parents to let me leave and learn online. Unfortunately, they didn't see past it. I prefer not to give my uni away... it wasn't a prestigious one I'll say that :P
After uni was done, a friend of mine from uni (who left after the first year) recommended taking a course that was focused on game art. I decided to take the course because the biggest hurdle for me at the time was understanding the software and the workflow, which I knew practically nothing about. And that's what the course taught me. It boosted my understanding how stuff worked. The course itself was from Game Art Institute and I took it at the start of 2016. It was a mentorship I think I paid around £700 for 3 months, which may seem on the pricey side, but if you think uni costs £9k per year and you're only in 2-3 days per week for that? Not bad :P.
If you're looking for a course, I'd first say look into mentorships because they are more likely to teach current workflows, plus the 1 to 1 aspect is great. I think the most I've paid for any tutorial online is £20 aside from that game art course. Usually, I find artists who I like on Artstation, browse their work and then stumble across a tutorial they've uploaded or one that links to a tutorial they've made, which you pay for. I've purchased perhaps 5 or so tutorials from Gumroad and Udemy by following through from Artstation.
So in hindsight, if I had the choice again, I'd choose to do a course that is focused on a specific area. And if you can find a good mentor, then consider giving it a shot.
Before you decide to do a course, first work out where you're at in terms of; your own knowledge, how you feel and what you want to do. Because the chances are there's a free answer out there. I've never heard of Escape Studios before but they look ok and internships are opportunities that not many people get a chance to be a part of. But again, do research into the mentors and what they teach, the software you'll be using etc. There are a lot of courses popping up everywhere nowadays because they know there are a lot of people like us whom they can make a lot of money out of. We're a massive business for them... Just keep that in mind.
I've seen a few videos of artists who I look up to and they always say, "it doesn't matter what college or uni you went to, if your work is awesome and you're a cool person, then welcome to the team".
In terms of free learning sources... TH-cam, Polycount, Artstation, 80 Level, World of Level Design are my main sources. Hope that helped a little dude :).
Same here, uni taught me lots of theoretical knowledge which I value, like ludology etc, but I learned absolutely no practical skills, I only had one course on 3D modelling in the whole degree and none on concept art. Thank God for channels like this, and for free education.
I’m changing careers to animation. If you can do free or cheaper alternatives. Do it. I’m doing a mentorship from my cousin, and he has worked in stop motion, 3d, and 2D. He is very knowledgeable. I plan to just work with him and help him out to learn rather than go back to school. Also doing some online stuff. No way I’m going back to Uni after how they failed me with my last career choice. Gave me zero skills.
Really, really useful video with so many valuable insights. One of my main take always was the making an effort to go to the pub and network. This is something that continues to hold me back today. so it was reassuring to hear you have a somewhat similar tenancy (valuing your alone time) but still recognise the need to make an effort to socialise.
Yes indeed, socialising is a big part of it. Sure, you can definitely get a job through your skills alone, but it's significantly easier if you have good friends on the inside.
Amazing and informative video that I wish I had seen before. I am currently starting my third year, even tho this video is made for before you start your uni I still can use these tips to my benefits as its not too late. Thank you
Me, in my 3rd year, deeply in debt, and not even halfway sure of my skills: So like... +100 Self Doubt
oh gosh I can relate so much... I decided to stop after my second year even if I could go to 3rd year bc of this. :/ I always feel like I would never be good enough in this industry and would never be able to erase my debt it haunts me everytime.
@@elarys5363 well, I did graduate and I can tell you it doesn't help with the self-confidence issues
@@leestoichkova Did you find a job though? :0
@@elarys5363 Still jobless and proud lol
@@leestoichkova damn. Hope you'll find :/
This video is amazing. I myself am in a 3d school now and i have no idea what my level is. Am i good enough or am i totally off. It makes me insanely worried about the end of school.
This is an incredibly tricky question to answer, like youre saying. The way you can get some metrics here is to search for junior artists who's doing something similar to what you want to do. Find them on linkedin and see if you can find their student reel, the one they used to get their first job. If you find a couple of them, you'll get a general feel as to what level you need to be at.
I also highly recommend posting your work on social media, like facebook groups, artstation and twitter to get exposure and feedback on your work. This way you get a way more accurate view of your current portfolio.
Be very careful when it comes to comparing yourself to other students in your school, as that might not be a representative level of the industry. The way I did it was to find some amazing artists online and I tried to strive for that quality by working my butt off, without comparing myself to my peers in school.
I hope this helps! :)
/Henning
I’m self taught and watched a lot of your videos which have helped me improve tremendously
so i know this is an old video but
I am currently at a school in Germany -> full CG for 15 months
Whole thing is very similar to GNONOM but for like 20K (still expensive, but you arent in dept for the rest of your life)
Experienced teachers and the amount of stuff i learned in the past 7 months is insane. I had no experience in 3D at all and we learn like everything -> from Modelling, Texturing, Lighting, Animation, CFX, learned a little bit of classical drawing, Compositing --> almost the full pipeline
Yes its true.. you have to put in the hours -> i have classes on sunday and im doing nothing else then working
But I enjoy it so much and my progress is so fast -> you can see the differences in days
Should you go to CG school -> if you can afford it and if its a good school (meaning alumnis working in the industry etc) and if you are willing to give up your personal life -> YES. YES. YES
Ok when y’all were talking about the tuition cost being 9000 my jaw dropped. I understand there’s a bit of a difference in currencies because I live in the US but some of the schools I looked at tuition was 50000 as a starting point for 1 year.
"i've seen people pick their education and they spend less time on that than they spend on their amazon purchases" haha, jeez
Its true!
I've neglected my studies a lot during home schooling (I do 3d animation) now approaching my last year and I really want to punch myself because I regret it cause I have many gaps in my workflow understanding
I'm 100% self-taught. I've been doing 2d vector art in CorelDRAW for about 20 years now (since I was 10) and just started Blender and ZBrush as of last month which I've picked up on fairly quick. I still wanna learn animations and explore Substance Painter more though as a hobby.
I use Corel professionally for a job as well as converting 3D art into 2.5D for CNC work, which is why I create objects first in Blender then convert them over to ZBrush to sculpt. Then convert to .stl and import them into Aspire, bake the component, generate the toolpaths, etc.
So, in essence, you dont need to go to school, BUT it does help! They'll look at your resume and your professional qualifications. If you have none, you'll likely not be hired. Getting to know people and having that type of reference will definitely help.
Another thing is that you should always save your projects and catalog them! This is a MUST!
Went to art school but for a different field, advertising. Graduated but when I started looking for work, my education was below the standards for employment. Most of the stuff they taught me were basically the standard a decade ago. Didn't even learn photoshop 'til I was in my 4th year. But there's also a good thing, they taught me the traditional way; anatomy, perspective, sculpture, etc. Now I'm working for a toy company and planning to try my luck (or skills) on character designing :)
Sometimes you can do more in 2 hours than in 7-8. Imperative is to be organised. When you're organised you can spend even less. Quality not quantity.
8 hours of dedicated organized practice is better than 2 hours of the same, that's just the hard fact.
@@sociallyresponsiblexenomor7608 Well, its more about having the focus for 8 hours straight, and 99% of people do not have that, noone can keep focused for that long.
You need the grind of 8 hrs just sculpting faces and shit to actually get good at it.
Yep, the optimal number of focused work the brain can take is 4 hours max.
Ive been learning cg stuff via youtube for about a year now. Im applying for a school so I can have a working visa later on. I did a lot of reaserch and found a decent school, looking forward to making some like minded friends. Its 1:30 a.m. but I had to watch this, I like these talks, they shed light on some areas.
Thanks for watching our videos! Much appreciated :) Best of luck to you when applying for schools. Which ones are you thinking of going to?
FlippedNormals Durham college in Canada, its 3 years. I cant go to Vfs because its 1 year only and I wont be able to get a working visa later on :/ Do u have any specific advice? I could use some right now :)
Sure, here are some general thoughts:
- If you're attending the college, make sure that you don't blindly trust the school at all! Do your own research and if something seems weird, make sure that you talk to somebody outside the school to make sure it's all good
- Figure out really exactly why you want to go to school and then spend your time really learning what you want to focus on. If you want to become a concept artist, don't spend too much time learning in-depth FX or rigging; spend it on art fundamentals.
- Spend some time getting a fundamental understanding of all the steps in 3D, so that you know how it's all connected.
- LEARN ART FUNDAMENTALS! I cant stress how important this is. Software changes all the time, but the art fundamentals never change. They are applicable if you do photography, compositing, life drawing etc.
- If possible, attend every single life drawing session there is.
I hope this helps! :)
/H
Thank you! Ill make sure to be sceptical, and learn the fundamentals.
I attended a school in the states. The school was well taught and very demanding the first year, but I noticed the sometime in my second year the quality of work started to dwindle as the students around me were given passing grades despite their work being exceptionally poor. By the end of that year the school announced it was currently involved in a lawsuit that would end with the campus closing, but they guaranteed to teach out the course until we graduated. Anyone still in their first year would need to either transfer to another campus or drop out.
I chose to continue my education for the degree (considering I had already taken out loans for over half of it, I didn't want that money to be a waste.) despite knowing that my skills wouldn't improve much. All of the qualified instructors left and horribly unqualified teachers took their place. The final projects were all team projects and the students had little to none of the required skills resulting in abysmal finished projects.
My portfolio show during graduation was the most embarrassing moment of my life. I received a Bachelors Degree that got me a job in banking that I hate. I am tens of thousands of dollars in debt and will be for the foreseeable future. I also grew to hate both myself and the field I had once loved.
Do not go to school. If you love this field - push yourself and learn on your own. The resources are out there. Please don't make the same mistake that I did.
I just got into a school called DigiPen, and they say they have 80% placement rate! Lately I've been not sure about whether it would be worth my money to go there, the only thing school does for me that I can't do well on my own is pretty much just enforced motivation. This video validated me lol
Also, love discussions like this! It's like a podcast, and I don't know of any podcasts that talk about this stuff
I'd be very sceptical towards the 80 percent claim for sure. Do they have data showing where the students got jobs and in what positions? If they mostly got runners positions or jobs which are barely relevant to what they studied, that's incredibly misleading. Definitely make sure to just power through!
And thanks! We are going to do more of these discussions in the future.
/H
One benefit to going to a visual-effects oriented school, and by this I mean a private school that focuses strictly on VFX (programs, theory, etc), is connections. Lots of them, at least Gnomon and TTTC, have instructors and owners that are in the industry and have numerous active dialogues with studios in their area, and beyond. So they're constantly recommending students who put in the work and have good reels. And these students' reels are typically put on the top of reels from people who cold-applied. Their reputation is also on the line when it comes to post-graduation job placement rates, so unlike "other" schools that simply chuck students out the door without helping them find jobs (cough VFS), VFX-oriented schools will try to help you out. I know that TTTC, at least, will even hire artists with specific VFX skillsets if you want to specialize in something very particular and need that extra "edge" to make your reel more appealing for employers. Again, though, effort is key.
LMAO I'm $120,000 in dept but at the moment I only have to payback 40,000 until I get a career job starting at 60k+. I currently work just a 9-5 for 22k-24k a year while trying to maintain my sanity and better my skills in 3d. I feel like the guy in a zombie movie that's getting swarmed and chomped on, and doesn't want to turn, and there is no way out, so he pops his self or has someone do it for him lmao....that is what it's like going to school is for art...going to "Art Institute" schools. It's waaaay cheaper to get classes online like CGMA, Mold3d, 3D CGMA, New Masters, Gumroad, Cubebrush...etc.
Thanks a lot for your comment! Jesus, 120,000 in debt is rough... Do you mind if I ask which school you attended?
Absolutely brilliant video I live in the UK and go to college I'm 17. College is very inefficient in the ways it teaches the CG software and skills, I Mostly do extra work outside of college in my own time making projects and challenges learning new software and skills, such as zbrush, Maya, fractals, compositing software ect. Getting into this industry seems difficult and the education system has never seemed more seperated from the work environment. It seems most companies won't even look any further at someone unless they have a degree in something nowadays regardless of what it is because it invokes an impression of tenacity. I have heard of a CG company called Double negative who work on big block buster movies, I don't know if you have heard or worked with them either, but I could appreciate some advise on where I could look for contacts to get my foot in the door while learning all of these skills. I haven't yet specialised as I'm still not exactly sure of what I want to do in this vast industry but I'm absolutely Certain that I would work hard to achieve a position in the industry.
Hey Daniel! So we actually both work on movies for Double Negative in London, so you could say I'm somehow familiar with it :)
I think you're already doing the right thing by working your butt off next to school. This is how I got started too. Do tons of personal projects and learn as much as you can on your own. Once you're at a comfortable level, try to get into a smaller studio to get experience and to get your foot in the door.
If you want to work in VFX, figure out what position you want to go for and then specialise based on this position. Find people who are experts in the field you want to go into and learn exactly what it takes. In the film industry, we are mostly specialists (I work as a character/creature artist, and not much outside of that).
We've written several articles on this, which might help you:
flippednormals.com/blog/creative-students-handbook-introduction/
flippednormals.com/blog/the-creative-students-handbook-reels-portfolios/
flippednormals.com/blog/creative-students-handbook-schools/
In short: Work a lot and learn as much as you can, have a goal in mind and then work towards that. You don't have to start at a AAA studio right away; it's absolutely OK to start in a smaller place.
I hope this helps! :)
/Henning
FlippedNormals thanks for the advise really appreciate it. Very assuring watching the video you spoke my mind. Everything I don't like about the system you brought up in the video which is very assuring as seems I understand quite well. I have a lot to learn still I'm very much a beginner with zbrush and compositing software and have been learning modeling in Maya and digital painting such as Matt painting and concept art. Using the wacom tablet from a 2d plane to a 3d environment was tedious at first but I think I'm slowly getting the hang of it. I kind of dislike pixologic because they have no student liscenses with their software and are expensive so I have to crack it unfortunately because I just have no money and want to learn. If you're interested I can send you a few renders new and old to show you where I'm at currently and where I'm heading if that's ok. Thanks for your kind response really enjoy your content
So glad I found this. Im currently struggling with the idea that I SHOULD have some degree in order to become a concept artist (I’m one of those people who had the you-need-school-to-succeed idea ingrained) but I’m already after a degree in a completely different field and kind of desperate to start making real money :( So the choice is to spend more to hopefully rebrand into another industry or maybe try to do it on my own. It’s all confusing and I wish someone told me you could pursue concept art when I was in high school.
this happens in japan too. usually the teachers are a person who are not able to get a job as an artist, but just got a job as a teacher because the 3D artist's demand is high. I had a teacher who only taught MAYA using NURBS curve. and not even use Polygon modelling. i expected more from them. I studied from digital tutors more in one day, from the school's 4 year program.
there is a huge demand of ZBrush / Maya / substance painter but , usually the teachers don't know the software. and teaches some bs methods... and usually school is pricy. but the teachers don't get that payment. which is really bad for students / teachers.
Thanks for your comment! It's interesting hearing the perspective of what it's like in Japan too. It's beyond crazy to me that you can be a Maya teacher with that little knowledge of how anything is done. There's a reason why online training is becoming more popular.
/H
Everything said in the video, I personally agree with it all. However, there's this one thing that people don't mention as much and that is to get a Visa when you want to work abroad in your favorite studios. It's been messing me up personally, the thought of it. Because as a self learning 3D artist, I don't have a degree and I hear from many people that it'd be very difficult in my life to succeed into getting a good job in a company I want to work for because most of them are in USA/Ca/UK and not having a degree would definitely cause many issues to get the working Visa.
If someone's more educated in this topic than I am, please let me know your thoughts about it. Because when self studying is emphasized a lot, I wonder why this topic doesn't come up as much if it causes so many issues.
As i'm currently studying Game Art at a renowned university, here's my take on that topic.
I went into this with quite some knowledge about every aspect of the courses. The beginning really was like "We want to include everyone, even people who haven't even touched a computer", which was fine for me. This went on for a few months, before we actually started using Maya and working in 3D. This started the, in my opinion, worst part(s) of the whole thing. We just got a document with a roughly specified task and some example projects. So far so good. When finished, we got our grades and "feedback" for specific categories. Doesn't sound too bad, right? This "feedback" consists of mostly copy&paste paragraphs with very vague formulations of issues. No examples given, you have to figure those issues out yourself.
Even the situations where you are among, if not the best in class popped up for me. And as you already said, it drags me down SO much, it's unbelievable. Why even go there or attend lessons when everything feels like a waste of time?
In my opinion, ONLY go to art school, if you have no or just very little experience in the field you wanna study.
You'll be stuck being forced to rush everything, not even enjoying it. It's the worst when you already know what you're doing. Everything that was taught in my last year, you're better off learning yourself through relaxed practice.
The feeling of just pumping out things based on a dumb document and then not even getting helpful feedback is NOT worth it. Also, at least my school, is just teaching you the technical aspects of the tools. No aesthetics, good design etc.
Though i have to say, that art schools in my country aren't as expensive as in the US. It's not even 1/10th in price. But the taught things probably are the same.
Hi, would you make a video about your progress from the beginning to now? It would be really interesting to see the improvement through the school, first job and so on. Your videos are great, thank you for what you are doing.
Thanks! Thats a really good idea. I'll write this down.
I'm in my last two weeks of school, and I'm putting my finishing touches on my final exam right now. And I'm kind of torn, I made the "mistake" of taking an online study, since the classroom course were just crazy expensive, and it turned out I were the only student in the online class.. Meaning I got none of the networking opportunities I was hoping for. I also got stuck with a couple of teachers that weren't really interested in communicating with me. It was heartbreaking, and I paid a lot of money, each semester cost me around 4000,- usd. This really sucked, and now in hindsight when looking at my student debt, I regret it.
But at the same time I discovered something I truly love (I had no prior 3D experience, and picked the course because it seemed fun), and I'm happy I got experience from working within the frames of a pitch and a set deadline, which a lot of self-taught artists probably will never experience until they're suddenly doing freelance or they're actually hired.
Would I attend school again for learning 3D art?
Nah, probably not. Most of my skills so far I have acquired through youtube anyway, so I could complete my assignments.
I feel like a lot of my time was wasted doing assignments I weren't really passionate about, it's not fun doing three weeks of particles and vfx when you feel like your time would be better spent practicing modelling or sculpting.
I'd say it depends on your individual learning preference. Some people learn best by given a couple pointers and then let loose to learn/improve on their own with very little guidance. Other people learn best by being given a point by point play of what to do and why.
My biggest tip would be this: Be VERY careful about costs! It's getting STUPIDLY EXPENSIVE to go to a specialized school (like a CG school, say Vancouver Film School, DAVE School, Gnomon, Full Sail University, etc). For a bonus tip...don't forget to enjoy the little things in life.
I agree I’m 21 and I’m at my last year studying 3D and story telling. If I hadn’t spent time after school and week ends at drawing and sculpting for fun I would still have a shitty level. And I still have to work harder to get real good. Looking after an internship last year was a big slap in my face. I was proud of what I did and had good grades but for the studios I’ve applied to I was shit, it was a revelation to me. I past the next 2 months rebuild everything to show only the best of myself.. and I got one where I learned even more :)
Curiosity and really like to keep learning stuff everyday is the thing that keeps me motivated everyday (and the dream to work for big things :D )
Thank you for your comment! :) It's very interesting hearing your opinion on this. The pattern seems to be the same for a lot of people: If you dont work your ass off during school, you wont improve, and the schools gives you an unrealistic view on how easy it is to get a job.
I hope you're doing better now and that you're having more luck with internships! :)
/Henning
Just found your videos, really enjoy them!
I live in a small town in Australia, currently 22 and I'm debating weather or not I should go to University, with what I found all 3D related courses are located in city areas though. I learned all I know at home from self teaching and tutorials but I wanna learn as much as I can, I can do it online but thing is the main reason why I wanna go to University is to meet people, experience real life and working with others, learn with others and from, and converse with people in person who are interested and crazy about the same stuff I'm crazy about. Can't really get the same energy as you do from online. Plus my socialising skills need some work as do my team working skills and I wanna improve on those, mostly due because of my introverted tendencies and anxiety.
I just don't know what to do.
This is exactly the reason it's so hard to talk about uni, as on one hand, it's incredibly expensive, but on the other it could be a really good life choice. I'd say, if you go to good uni (research it well!) and you wont be in debt for life, it could be worth it. 100k of student loans will NOT be worth it in this industry.
Yeah, I might sit on it for awhile then while researching my options, asking around even and see what happens. I really appreciate the response and advice, glad I found you guys. :)
It really depends on your field of study. Animation? Rigging? Texturing? Programming? ALL OF IT LIKE ME AND A BUNCH OF OTHER PEOPLE? I learned everything on my own and am successfully making independent games. There's just so much to learn that even school can't cover all of it unless you specialize. However I got stuck on animation and had 0 experience with Maya when I started, it was too vast and frustrating. (Now it seems so small and neatly organized.) So I paid a great deal of cash to learn just animation at CG Spectrum and it's one of the best decisions I made. Within two months I was competent at animation via my own hard daily practice with a guided tutor to show me Maya. I could have learned it on my own, honestly, but that 2 months smashed the walls down of how long it would have taken.
Probably the best advice I've heard about this industry .... and I've been in it for a long time.
This is great video! Thx a lot!! I agree with you 120%. In any field you wanna dive in, nothing will lift you to next level as hard work, a lot work (work and work).Yes, we wanna more vids like this.
Amazing, thank you! There's really no other way of putting it: Nothing can replace hard work, no matter what the school tells you.
just getting into 3d modeling i got zbrush and maya.. I was debating on 3ds max or maya. I got the Wacom intous pro pen tablet but I might get this one.. good content. im doing your tutorial with sparten helmet. ..thanks for the knowledge.. God bless you
I think this was a wonderful discussion. Many relevant issues were brought up. However, I think there is another thing to think about. What happens if you leave the CG industry and you don't have a Bachelor's degree? What happens if you get sick of working 60 to 80 hours a week? The bachelor's degree (or Masters Degree), as crappy as it is, does have other benefits. Another thing you should look for in a GOOD school is whether it exposes you to new ideas. Will you be introduced to ideas and concepts that will change the way you view the world? Anyways, great channel, just wanted to add to the discussion.
Great point! Thanks for your comment :)
I've pretty much decided I am going to go to a Brick and Mortar school next year (Herfordshire 3D Animation & Modelling) but there was a lot of great information in this video that I'm definitely going to use and there are definitely a lot of universities/schools here in the UK that I know are just trying to get the tuition fee's from people or having been riding on their name for years now to just get people in the door (...cough...Brighton...cough)
It's about the friends we made along the way
Thank you for the video :D!
Agree but sometimes with the advancements in both technologies and software techniques. For instance Rendering systems switching from maya nodes to mental Ray to Arnold now can be a bit tricky as lighting/matcaps/utilities switch to a totally different let’s say headache all the time. I opened up a file that I made a while ago with maya nodes. All the objects were bright green. I can’t afford Keyshot but I would rather render my scenes with a software that has a physical camera/lighting.
If you have talent. And have been working with the softwares for a while than there’s nothing to stop you Except for print work.
If you feel you absolutely must go to school and get a degree, then I say forget getting an art degree all together, most of the time it's just a waste unless you are already pretty good and focus on networking. By all means take some art electives like life drawing classes and other fundamentals, but instead focus on a more general and practical major with classes that will improve your business and communication skills. Stuff that will be useful no matter what you go on to do. A 2 year associate degree ought to be more than enough for what you need in most cases.
It will be way cheaper, take up a lot less of your time, and give you something to fall back on if it turns out your interest in art isn't at the hardcore obsession level you need to stick with it for the long haul. Then just spend all your free time learning and improving on your art.
I'd also say if you are lucky enough to still be in middle or high school while contemplating these things, then don't waste your time waiting for school to hold your hand; start taking your art seriously on your own straight away. There is more than enough resources available on the web right now than you will ever need to get quite good at art. But that journey is a long one, probably upwards of a decade before you could confidently carry your own weight at a professional level - 5 or 6 to just be worth considering letting you get your foot in the door (which - if you hadn't noticed - is a lot longer than what most school programs run for).
I always love hearing people who live anywhere but America talking about what they perceive as absurd increases in tuition cost. Here in the US, a full tuition can cost 6 digits at some universities. Land of the free!
Went to a relatively cheap art school, paying about half of what the tuition seems to be for most normal folks for other schools, the vast majority of it is crap but there are about 5 other students I've befriended who I think could really make it in the industry (very talented, very kind) and a professor who's lesson's have been absolutely invaluable and has offerer me industry positions and says he hopes to provide more in the future. I learned most things online but THAT I got from school
I really liked your talk/ podcast, super inspiring and half way through your video I got a notification from LinkedIn that I had just been accepted to join the Cinema 4D group. I'm just about to consider my first post. Thanks Guys!
I'm getting my BA in Game Art and Development...however, I'm also putting in hours and hours every day working on my craft to get better to develop the skills that I learned. Like you've said, you have to put in the work. School is giving me a foundation, but it's up to me to work on becoming proficient.
Thats our thinking too - the school will not give you the skills, just a platform which allows you to learn. Best of luck with your BA!
/H
Wish I'd found this TH-cam channel before spending $12,000 (would have been $30,000 had I not been in a car crash forcing me to withdraw)
I've learned more on my own (with a bit of TH-cam help) then I did in school
PLUS the prof teaching zBrush himself learned by watching online tutorials... It was a real slap in the face
I think one of the biggest challenges is access to programs. I have ZBrush, Rhino, and KeyShot for ZBrush because they are "relatively" inexpensive and I've learned everything from TH-cam and a few online courses I've paid for. Would love to learn Maya but it is way too expensive and you have to be enrolled in an accredited school to get the free student version. For me, that is the biggest hurdle because all the studios want you to know Maya since that seems to be the industry standard.
That's actually a really good point.. software can be crazy expensive, which is a huge problem for a lot of people, unfortunately. Thanks for bringing it up!
You should buy Maya LT. You can learn the basics of Maya without paying a crazy amount :) I use Maya LT every day at work and it's perfect for modelling for games. Hope this helps!
Carlos Ferreira Or you get cracked version of those programma's xD.
Learning Blender, at 37 I don't seem myself jumping into the VXF, game or film industry lol. I think there is still a lot of work that could be done as a 3D generalist by working on product & architectural visualization, connecting eco... Got into the game a lil late
pretty sure student version of maya actually works without being accredited a school, or could just write a random school. But on this subject I like that several programs are starting to have noncommercial free software:) Really helps to be able to learn what is needed to get a job within the industry:) or in my case be able to experiment with stuff from home even if I do have a junior position in vfx:P
Seeing this while I start my first 3D class in a very expensive school in the US in a couple of weeks is really making me nervous. I know some people say you don't need school for all this but I feel it will be more difficult for me if I don't to school, but I don't want to make a bad decision here. BTW what are some of the best websites/ youtube channels/ online resources and books were people go to learn everything. I love FlippedNormals too, great job guys! .. Also what do you guys think about the school Gnomon, any thoughts, cons and/or pros?
Hey, thanks a lot for your comment. If you want some good advice once youre in school:
- Work your absolute ass off. Take full advantage of the fact that you have time dedicated to learning.
- Connect with people online (we have a discord on hub.flippednormals.com) to make sure that you wont get locked into a bubble - which can so easily happen.
- Spend time learning core principles (we have a playlist with a bunch of videos on this)
- Get a second opinion on your work and dont trust your teachers 100%.
- If you see that it's not working out for you, drop out. You dont want to spend 2-3 more years in the school costing you potentially 100s of thousands of dollars just to toughen it out. Debt is a real killed later in life.
Gnomon is fantastic - but VERY expensive. I'd only attend it if money wasnt an issue. If I had to take up loans to attend it, I would be very hesitant. No school is good enough to be worth $150,000 in debt, no matter what they might say.
I hope this helps! :)
/Henning
How is it going for you now?
Great vid guys. Just want to mention few things:
1) Amount of hours you put in does not make you better than others. You will know the program better that's for sure, but we're not programming software here, we're doing Art (based on Creativity + some technical stuff) and you can't teach creativity, let me repeat that.. you can not teach creativity (either you have it or you don't).
2) You forgot to mention how certain Universities have co-op programs with major studios to get their feet wet as interns. This is a huge advantage/benefit that only student get (secured job after graduation).
3) You also not mentioning the permits/residence requirements, which most of these CG studio have for their jobs. It's blatant discriminatory but a reality for many folks out there (no matter how good they are).
4) I agree that a great Portfolio is good for you but you need more than that, including connections and a work permit, that often only a University may offer. That is if you want to work in a studio... if you just want to freelance, then you can earn some good money by yourself without going into that crap (debts for life).
On the topic of not putting in the time or engaging with fellow classmates, what was I supposed to do when I worked a very demanding forklift job? I never had time to finish my assignments or meet my classmates. I've since moved up to District Manager in the 8 years I've been with this freight company; I'm 25 now and constantly reminded that I don't want to be doing this job my entire life and actually get out and meet people.
I'm currently 24 years in age living in the US, and I'm seriously debating on taking 3D modeling courses such as tutorials or mentorships once I get a computer, but I'm so afraid of this because I had disregarded this dream 3 years ago due to life issues that had occured... but as time went on close friends and my older brother told me I should pursue it again 🥺 idk man this is rough
Don't be afraid To start 3d modeling I don't want to force you But i think it could be Good for you And what i mean by that It could be a satisfying process and it could be something that you focus on Instead of the things that happen to you in life. And who knows you might get a job As 3d modeler. You Also Could make Cool projects. The possibilities are endless if you put in the work to learn ect. Im Also starting to 3d model And it's fun it's also gives me something to do. I hope this helps 😁
The school argument is a tough one because Most of the people that would hire you is more concerned about the quality of your work, not where you went to school. BUT!!.. That said!, They do value 'some' schools that always churn out the best artists that are pre-trained, already up to speed with the workflow of their business and can get up and running in their pipeline right away.
The problem is that "those schools' are crazy expensive, and will likely put you in debt, something that can sit on your shoulders for the next 20 years of your life, AFTER graduation. Here's the deal. You can learn the software on your own. Most of the best Artist do, long before they go to school, which makes the school itself offer little more than simply the degree. Thing is, that 'little more' is where schools can make your career, as that little more goes a long long way. That 'little more' being Job Recruiters that visit your school to recruit annually. and its really what your paying for, NOT the Art101 lessons, but the 2 opportunities that present themselves both in Junior Year and Senior Year, when Job recruiters come to your school looking for the best artists. In that situation your work is not judged by who knows Hundreds of thousands of applicants, but instead only those few students in your class, and only those who actually presented demo reels. Basically meaning schools enable students work to be seen, while other people must apply for jobs via the jobs own web site, or at best dropped off at a recruiters desk at an annual convention like Siggraph, comicon or g3 , typically getting lost in the sea of other applicants. Schools, the top schools which job recruiters visit annually, pride themselves on being one the few that job recruiters visit every year, and their hired alumni. The best of which willi tout the percentage of students that get hired by recruiters every year. And its why they charge as much as they do, because you the student have the opportunity to actually get your work seen. The other 'little' bonus with going to a school is the value in making friends in school. Yes this one maybe even more important than recruiters coming to the school, Because its more likely for you to get a job if you have friends that can help each other get jobs. Friends even go further than just jobs, as they become a measure to your work. You inspire them and they inspire you. And when they get a job, they make friends who all communicate as to who's hiring and who's not. Basically an inside line to what you need where and when. something you don't have going at it alone. So when it comes to schools. particularly the best ones, its not all about the work which you can learn on your own, rather its about knowing How to work, the perks and amenities of the school itself and the people you meet. Its about your work getting into the hands of job recruiters and actually being seen. Does it mean you will get a job? actually no. But your odds are much greater than going at it alone, The eyes of those who recruit can be looking for specific things that your work does not display. You can be an amazing artist, but if your work is all about copying other peoples work, lifting ideas from known films, with no originality of your own, then despite all your means to replicate others work perfectly, a recruiter may assess you as not being an artist at all, just someone who copies artists who have a brilliant thought process and vision. One recruiter may hate that, looking for artist with originality, another may love that needing someone who can Follow a given workflow and style. You may not be an ARTIST but you do have enough Artistic skills to get the job. or not.
Continued>> As for those who goto school but dont get a job. Thats a real tough one. Because the weight of being in debt falls heavily on ones shoulders. Often forcing you to put your dreams and ambitions aside while you take odd jobs to get by and cover school bills that reduce the quality of your day to day life, debt with no eval. Its without question a bitter pill unlike the person who didnt goto school and is use to working odd jobs and dont have that additional burden of debt reducing their quality of life. You must content with the knowledge of having gone to school applied and not been hired. Its a blow to ones dreams and ego. And your likely to run around in circles wondering where you went wrong in your work. why didnt they hire you. very very bad times to say the least. And at that point school would appear to be the worst thing you could have ever done. BUT, those amenities are still in play. because as an alumni, you have the opportunity to apply again to recruiters that come to your school, the school with its inside information from both recruiters and alumni pass on job information that often doesnt go out to the mainstream public. despite not having got the job during your attendance your still afforded those perks and amenities if you take them. If not then you find yourself in the same position as those who dont goto school accept for one last thing. your degree. which means the recruiter knows your upbringing, knows you have at least gone to a worthy school and have graduated to meet their most minimum requirements. As for the people that dont goto school you have the benefit of no financial burden, and that huge! in terms of quality of life. you have freedom and can maneuver in life as desired since school debt does not force you to take undesired employment paths. If you can get the job of your dreams without school, then more power to you. because what all employers want more than anything is a person with experience.
I completely agree that art school or college can be a waste of time and money. But i'd like to tell the other side of the story. I'm indonesian, graduated from probably the most expensive college in my country. After i graduated i still can't sculpt in Zbrush, doesn't understand what a normal map is. I learned everything i know about game modeling on youtube and jobs. A year after, i got a life-changing job in Japan which requires a working visa which requires me to have at least 10 years of experience or a degree. Fortunately for me, I got the latter.
The company hiring you probably won't care about your degree. But for other bureaus, that's all that matters. I'm not saying people need to go to college just in case they'll need the degree. But nevertheless, it's an option worth considering.
Hi! Yes - this is one of the points we're trying to make too, that in order to get a visa, a degree can be a great help.
I'm curious, if you didnt learn much in college, what did you guys do during school?
We actually learned a lot of things which is the main problem. We don't have open curriculum here, so we were mandated to learn everything provided by the course. From traditional arts like painting, clay sculpting, traditional animation, etc to 2d and 3d arts. But we only learned the basics, they don't even teach us about specular, gloss maps or texturing in general.
This happened to me with sound engineering school. Paid around 20K USD, taught by "self-taught" individuals, didn't get a job and if i did i'd be slaving, barely pay my student loan, not to mention i have a life to live (rent, food, etc). I was expected to do that for years before something paid off. I know many people who quit half way through ( i wish i had done that) and most importantly more than half the class still didn't know what the hell they were doing by the end of the program. Sad, sad, sad. Oh and international students sometime pay about twice as much. Just insane.
That's really sad to hear... Do you mind saying what the school was as a warning to other people?
The school's name is Recording Arts Canada. It's located in Montreal. And i find the most susceptible people or rather people who fall for this are the youth, between 17 and 25. Like i was when i attended, and everyone else in my class.
My advice for anyone thinking about going to school for these sorts of program (i think your video touched on that) Dont go to school unless you're a professional who needs to brush up on his skills. If you're already working in the industry, i think it's perfect for you.
These schools target the youth and sell them a dream that 90% of them will never attain. And of course, they always show off their "students who made it" but no one knows who they are, never seen or heard of them, some of them are made up and like you guys said in the video, its mathematically impossible to not have a few students who are working in the industry, if they've been in business for 20+ years.
This is a tricky subject. There is no doubt that you don't legally need to go to art school/enroll in a "game art" program to get a job in game art. This isn't like trying to be a nurse (need to graduate from a nursing program, need to past the nclex etc...). But I think the question people who want to get in the industry without going to school for it have to ask themselves, "How confident am in my portfolio when I am competing against grads with portfolios and who went to school specifically for game art?"
Ideally I would like to believe that when you apply for an art job, the odds of your application being move forward or rejected is entirely or a large portion of that decision making is on the strength of your portfolio so even if you have no degree or no experience in 3d modeling, environment design etc... if your portfolio is what X studio is looking for you will advance in the interview/get the job etc... At the same though you can't help but wonder that if there are studios out there where HR simply culls all the people who either don't have experience or a degree in the field. So if you are applying for that 3d artist role and your degree/experience has nothing to do with 3d art then your application is eliminated right away and your portfolio that you poured everything into never gets looked at in the first place.
Put it this way, if 400 people apply for that one prop artist role at Riot, Blizzard, Rockstar etc... then I went to believe that someone will go through each and every one of those 400 portfolios and make a choice from there- but at the same time it would not shock me if HR decided to "trim the fat" before even taking a look at portfolios. So to those trying to make as an artist without school, you have to ask yourself "How confident am I that my portfolio will make it past HR, that even if I don't have that game art degree my portfolio will still be looked at?"
Lastly I will say that most of the time when I see a post on LinkedIn about someone entering the art field for the first time ("Dreams really do come true, first day at Blizzard/X studio etc...") when I click on that person's profile and scroll down to the education section the education background is almost always some type of game art, 3d art, game animation- overall "game art" related degree. There really are not to many examples of got a degree in history, English, Psychology then got the Game art job unless the History grad, the English grad etc... went back to school/did some online program for Game art. That is not to say that the English grads, the history grads never do get a job in Game art, I am sure they do but it is pretty clear that majority of first time 3d artist have a degree in or related to game art. So either HR is recruiting exclusively from people who went to school for game art or the game art grads tend to have the best portfolio.
And I want to be clear, I am not here to discourage people going for a career in the 3d industry, if it is your passion then I believe it is worth pursing. But at the same time I want to be realistic, there are far, far, far more people who want a job in game art than there are openings- please be aware of your competition, be aware that you are not only competing against people with portfolios but they have degrees in game art as well.
The proposition you raise is called gambling. "Will paying these thousands (or tens of thousands [or hundreds of thousands]) of dollars give me a step ahead of others in my desired industry?"
It is by playing on the anxieties that lead to this kind of gambling that allow universities to rake in money from so many different people in so many different fields.
I'm in my second year of college as a 3D game artist and i must say it is the biggest waste of my time. I think i could have learned alot more in a shorter amount of time from watching tutorials or reading books. Most students feel this way and at the end of this year we are forced to go on an internship at a game-creating company while most of us don't even have a proper portfolio yet. We only learn the very basics sadly. Most of the time you need to work on your portfolio outside school but there is almost no time since you end late every day and that combined with homework from other classes it becomes very busy.
This is the exact reason we made this video, as we've seen this exact scenario happen time and time again. It's honestly shocking how bad the state of the educational system is once you actually start looking at it. If a CG school makes you spend most of your time on non-CG related topics, they are wasting everyone's time! CG is way more of a trade than academic exploration.
FlippedNormals Thank you for your reply! I was wondering if you have any advice for going on an internship. I am afraid that i won't be good enough and that I will only bother others with the mistakes i make.
Are you talking of a school such as Gnomon? I’m kinda afraid this will end up happening to me too...
Time is a great value of school, Younger guys and girls might not appreciate this going straight from school to university. I spent time doing my fair share of crappy jobs to realise how valuable having the time to improve on these things is. Improving in the right direction is something else though and what you touched on a lot. Nice video..... If outsourcing retopology to India is becoming standard is it still something you should show an understanding in on your reel?
Hey! You should definitely still have a good understanding of topology if you want to be a modeller. While you might not do as much of it as 10 years ago, it's still one of the core skills a modeller has. We made a video on this last week:
th-cam.com/video/s2CYuRxFUSI/w-d-xo.html
Great, I can retopo a head with confidence now :) keep up the great work!
I did go to school and I don't regret it because I've met people who today are my best friends. But I agree, you will learn more one youtube FOR SURE. In the USA, schools are so expensive.. I think you shouldn't spend such an amazing amount of money for education (buy food, health care or a house instead). In Europe, some of the best schools offer free education in affiliation with a mid-working contract (formation en "alternance"). It's good because you're working in the industry, plus being at school working in groups of students and you're free to chose what you will do. That's cool. But I believe the only thing is: you're as good as you're being passionate about doing the things you love (art etc). But you have to work and get your shit done. Cheers !
IF you live OUTSIDE US then go to school for the degree. If you want to have a job abroad or in US that is.
IF you live in US then no need to go. We all learn BETTER by ourselves with the help of internet (online class) and this kind of channel.
Still a Portfolio is the most important and communication as well as personality.
IMO this is a must for artist.
1.) Portfolio 2.) Communication 3.) Personality --------4.) Degree (if you live outside US)
Awesome video!
Thanks a lot!
Absolutely! - I think your raking here is pretty solid. The degree can definitely help if you require a visa, but if you're working in the country where you have citizenship or in a union like the EU, this isn't something you have to worry about.
I thought I did all the research. I was proven wrong. I feel like I know basics now, even some specifics, but it just seems like I'm missing important skills in every single field. I'm in 3rd year and I'm basically teaching myself how to texture and bake maps. We were taught how to sculpt in zbrush and retopo in maya and then they basically were like "here is your finished model" no one told us there were other steps after that, like displacement maps and they still haven't taught us how to make one. It is just so frustrating. I am missing so many bits and bobs and it feels like I have wasted my time and money. I know I'm not good enough and it is keeping me awake at night. I literally don't know what to do...
At least your school taught you how to retopo in Maya or use other methods to modelling. My school only taught us very basic modelling, texturing skills and other skills at a surface level. The teacher never taught us how to make good rigs and animation skills in "3d animation class", feedbacks given from him were not useful either. I can't even find any work from my teacher when I search his name online, and heck he never worked in the industry and only worked at the IT department inside the school. Thank god TH-cam exists so I can learn how to bake maps and create better characters for my animation.
Well, in Norway the rent on your loan is silly low, its basically free money, because the rent is lower than the inflation, so the money you borrow will be worth a lot less in the future when you pay it back so you are basically earning money, and, if you for some reason cant pay back, or don't have a job or get sick, they delete rents or they delete the loan if you are unable to work.
After 30 years your student loan is dropped, also student loan is charged after reaching the £25,000 wage mark in a job (I think this only applies for EU students). Still, its quite a hassle for NonEU.
Anyways thanks for your discussion and usual content, kinda inspires me to do more :)
In the US, you can not file for bankruptcy for school loans. It's a lose-lose situation for most people.
that's only in the uk
I have a Masters in Design (finished University in 1999) and was recently asked by a family friend about going to university and I really couldn't recommend it. There are so many fantastic resources, lessons, and tools available now online, I've learned far more from TH-cam in the last year than I ever learned on my degree.
Companies need to stop saying they want applicants with Degrees for creative jobs. When I hire it is only the portfolio that is important (and personality). btw, Don't send a job application/C.V. without a link to your portfolio!
I just finished general studies high school (gymnazium) and got hired by euro truck simulator as a 3d modeller with no previous 3d experience x'D ..they gave me one month to complete their task and learn maya.. now, I'm self-learning in my spare time
Totally awesome talk!!! BTW, I hold a B.A. in Industrial Design (specialized in CAD-CAM) and I'm taking a Master in Project Management, but I really love digital arts and some months ago I decided to drop a well paid career in Product Design + Engineering and also decided to start a career as a freelance 3D concept sculptor and concept artist. I'm 32 (2018) and I won't do a long course into a school to get into this industry, so, what should I do to get that? I know that I have to strenghten my 3D sculpting, digital drawing/painting and art fundamentals, and also I have to build a great portfolio of fully rendered characters, creatures and objetcs. But which can be the steps to get there or the skills that I must have, from the self-learning point that I'm starting?? I could use some advice for that. :D
Hey Diego! that's a really interesting career move, for sure! Congrats on having the courage to pursue what you believe in :)
So if you want to be a concept sculptor, there are two main pillars you have to get very comfortable with:
- Figure sculpting. Everything you do is based on a solid understanding of figure sculpting and anatomy. It's really the basis for all the characters and creatures you'll do. While the anatomy might vary a bit between animals and humans, the core understanding of it is the exactly the same. I highly recommend that you check out Scott Eatons anatomy and figure sculpting courses, as they are phenomenal:
www.scott-eaton.com/anatomy-for-artists-online-course
Next to taking courses, just sculpt like crazy. Do speed-sculpts where you set yourself an hour or two to finish a complete sculpture (doesnt have to look good) and do longer studies where you really get in-depth regarding the human figure.
- Design. The second part of being a concept sculptor is to have a solid understanding of design and appeal. If you're being asked to make a 200 meter tall giant, you need to be able to provide them with a lot of very interesting and quick designs. Study already good character designs and figure out what makes them work. Also do tons of your own original designs.
We have a couple of tools which can help you, over at FlippedNormals.com.
The Creature Kit has a bunch of premade shapes which makes character design a lot easier. Im using this personally a lot on the movies Im designing for.
flippednormals.com/tutorial/flippednormals-creature-kit/
Creature Concepting in ZBrush - we cover the overall process we use to design a good creature in ZBrush. It's a whole bunch of theory and practical sculpting combined into one course.
flippednormals.com/tutorial/creature-concepting-zbrush/
I hope this helps! :)
Wow...!!!! Thanks for such a detailed and awesome response. Do you think that I can substitute Modo with something else, to keep low my initial costs? (I'm thinking about Substance or Marmoset) On the other side, you think that is necessary to know tools like Substance Painter, Marvelous Designer and Marmoset Toolbag, for concept work? Or they are more production-oriented? Thanks in advance!!! :D
No problem! Glad to help :D
Blender is completely free and can do everything modo can, plus way more. It's a bit quirky, but it's also extremely powerful. Keep in mind that no studios are using it, but the same is also true for Modo (at least as their main software). I'd definitely recommend learning Maya (or Max) if you're interested in working in production, but if you're a freelance artist, that's less important.
Have a great weekend!
/H
This video should have quadnipple the views it has now.
Extremely relevant video for Gens Y and Z.
Personal experience:
Finish school, get pressured by parents to go study. Wanna learn 3D modeling/level design, options are limited. Find a college with bachelor on GameDev that has 3D modeling class on second year. Bingo!. sign up. And then it hits: quality of studies is lower than in school itself, and the other classes... scripting, databases, HTML, etc.(I am an artist ffs) At scond semester I question myself what the hell am I doing there.
Friends suggests to go for a QA in Unity. Actually make it. And thing kicks off: amazing people, good salary, I am near the industry that I dream of. Networking is through the roof. Meet engine devs that worked in triple A companies, made the games I grew up on. This gives me fresh air, reminds me of what I seek. Since college is pile of ... waste of time, take a gap year. Hit Blender tutorials with double enthusiasm. After a while friend invites to work in their indie studio in Sweden junior 3D, conditions are way worse but hey its The Window, take it or leave it. Take a second gap year because my college is kind to allow it, move to sweden, be modeling for half a year. Get my game on the next level, find a job offering for low poly mobile game company(advertisement does not include company's name), hit it just for sport's sake, can I make it or not Actually do make it.
Now I work for SuperCell and never been more happy.
No one ever asked me if I have finished a single thing.
Everyne I talked to just asked for my ArtStation.
This fall I have to continue my studies or pay and leave. Thanks god studying is dirt cheap compared to what you spoke in the video. Guess who is not wasting his time and leaving the college?
Ive been really stressed out about going or not going to a school for months now, one of the problems is not knowing many schools. And you cant always find them easily unless they are amazingly good. But the biggest problem I have is I know my work is'nt up to standards and Ive been Goofing around with little to show for. And its a huge thing to spend years paying for something that isnt emediately paying off.
It also doesnt help that ive lost a clear direction of what I really want to do, (a school can help me explore that possibly)
Allot of the schools im interested in have a "project" kind of way of teaching. The first year will have normal classes, but afther that it will just be projects and no classes.
In one school "they will teach you when you ask for a certain thing, if you want to learn interfaces you'll have to ask and then they only teach whichever you need at that time for your project" I Dont know how I feel about this aproach of teaching. the student work seems really good. They only take the best in. But im afraid that with the schools I might choose the first year seems really good, exploratory and has all the new classes and things to try, but then you have 3 more years of just making projects. wich may or may not be good for your portfolio, and in one case the school owns your work (games), so you can make a part 2 if you ever want to sell it, but not sell the original.
Im sorry for the long post,
but I dont really know what to do anymore and id like other views on this if possible
Thank you
Hey, thanks for your post
Also - feel free to join our Discord :) You can talk to us more about this here:
discord.gg/uXtDUqs
@@FlippedNormals Im located in holland, thinking about Breda University of Applied Sciences, or else a more traditional / illustrative study in an art academy. Ive also visited HKU - Hogeschool voor de Kunsten Utrecht, wich also has "game art" but the student work wasnt as good as in Breda. so Id rather do a more illustrative study there then and develop my art.
can you guys suggest some good youtube channels like flipped normals where we cam learn 3d software from very starting to professional level
In the US, student debt is a bubble which is currently at 1.48 trillion dollars. Kids are taught that they're worthless without a degree, and a top art school costs about $160,000. Student loan debt can't be easily discharged through bankruptcy, so it's a great business for the schools and the banks. Not only do you have to be good enough to get hired at a studio, you also have to live in an area where there are plenty of studios because a lot of positions are short-term based. It wouldn't be terrible if a lot of those art school behemoths in the US would just collapse. The quality of online education is phenomenal nowadays.
Im currently going to a school that teaches both cgi and programming and since exams in programming are quite hard I spend so much time learning programming when I actually want to spend my time focusing on sculpting, modeling and learning animation
I'm in 4th year in a 3D design course now and I'm no where near the skill level I would have expected to be at, I realised that the course wasn't teaching me anything real fairly quick and I was just wasting my time ticking boxes to pass, but unfortunately there wasn't an alternative course I could do where I'm from so I'm just in it for the degree at the and so at least I could work abroad after I spend a couple of years getting my skills up to scratch, on the bright side I've only really waited my time and not put myself in massive debt
Iv thought of going to school for 3d, less for the technical aspect, but for more the theory behind color, animation, lighting, etc.
I had the opportunity to study in Vancouver (either of the two big ones in that city) and I still do. The thing is, I declined because of how expensive it would be. I didn't even know if I wanted to get that kind of job as a 3D modeler (getting hired by those companies isn't the only way of being a 3D artist). I'm doing quite good, and my skills are helping me a lot on the freelance world as I practice and grow. But sometimes I still wornder if I made the right choice, or if I'm foolish to let go an opportunity like that one. I mean, I already knew 3D and wasn't terrible. And surely I would've learned and improved a lot there, but would it have been even close to compensate for that insane price?
I’ve been watching this channel for years but until now I realize you guys come from nordic！Could you talk about the CG industry there ？
Hey, guys. Love the videos. Direct, to the point and pulling no punches. I do have a question that really isn’t related here so forgive me for that. I am learning Maya on my own through TH-cam videos and I am starting to learn Zbrush to help with my meshes. I’m getting somewhat comfortable with the tools I use most in Maya; I’ve only been at it for two months. I’m now getting to the point where I am thinking about size and dimensions and how important they are. For example, you make an interior of a room. You know the ceiling is eight feet and the thickness of the walls are four inches and the doors and windows are whatever. The question I have is, how important is it to get exacting sizes and how do you do that in Maya? I know how to use the measure tool but that’s after the fact and it may not be as accurate as I want it. Is there a way, like in CAD programs, that you can tell Maya this wall is four inches thick or this counter is this high. If not, how do you guys do it?
Thank you for any help you can give.
Joseph
Hey Joseph. Thanks a lot for your kind comment! :)
So most of time, I find that accurate measurements aren't *that* important, unless you're trying to replicate something specific, like a camera or an exact room, etc. Most shaders today are physically based, so they do take overall scale into consideration, but if a wall is 4 or 5 inches, that's not going to matter a whole lot. The exception to this is if you're using sub surface scattering (SSS); it matters a lot if an ear is 5mm or 3 cm thick :)
It's more important that you're working in real-world units though, so that the lights and shaders respond in an accurate manner. I prefer to set my units to CM in the preferences, as one Maya unit is now 1 cm.
I hope this helps!
/Henning
the keyword you mentioned is 'trustworthy'... there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding/misuse of this concept... people are not worthy of trust until they have proven that to you... it is at your own risk if you just assume other people are trustworthy until you find out differently... especially for such life decisions as... your health... career directions... large expenditures... and so on... the only really trustworthy person for these things is yourself... and if you can't trust yourself... you certainly are not in any position to trust someone else... might be brutal... but it is the truth.
Hi there! thanks for the video explaining about Schools.
Overall, I could agree that School is so expensive these days especially in my experience as an international student myself that even more expensive than domestic students. Aside from that I'd like to know how to get in the industry if you are self studying. Portfolio is definitely the first thing to pay attention to. but how do we get recognition from employers especially from abroad? How to deal with paperwork (especially work permit and stuff like that). I'd appreciate if you could elaborate more on it.
Darius
What are your thoughts on India regarding this, as I want to be an modeller artist but as you said most of the studios do the retopo and other jobs, and higher end studios(disney, pixar) are not here. can I work here for a while and then apply for studios abraod?
Great talk you guys, seriously I think I learned a lot and I think you really helped me.
I have a question though and I really want to know everyone's opinion about this one because I want to get as much feedback as possible. My question in so:
I have been doing 3D for around 3-4 years now and I don't think that I am professionally good enough to work at a triple A studio or anything like that but I don't think that I am bad. I have acquired a lot of knowledge when it comes to 3D and the tools I use to make the things I want to make. It seems to be going well for me but I have a huge dilemma - I use Blender. I feel so comfortable and efficient when I use it and I think I can do great things with it but no one is hiring people who use it, and because of it I am afraid nobody will hire me. Am I forced to switch to Maya or 3dsmax? I really want to know what you guys think here. Say you were as good as you are right now but in Blender - would you get hired or would you have to do something about it?
Thanks everyone!
Hey! Thanks a lot! I'm glad it's helpful :)
So keep in mind that you don't have to go from a hobbyist/student to working at a AAA studio, as very few people do. I'd say a better way is to join a smaller studio and then go from there.
The truth is though that you will have to learn either Max or Maya. In VFX, we exclusively use Maya (apart from maybe the odd studio here and there), so I'd highly recommend that you learn the tool of the trade. To put it like this, when you apply for jobs, you have so many other people competing with you and you want to be as strong as possible. If there are two equal candidates, but one can start from day 1 as he knows Maya and the other will spend 6 months getting up to speed, you're at a disadvantage.
Keep in mind that I'm not saying that Blender is worse than Maya, just that good knowledge of the tool a studio uses will be a huge benefit.
I hope this helps!
/Henning
Whoa thanks for the quick reply!
Hmm I see. This makes sense to me and I do want to be the best I can be so I will do it! I think I really needed to hear it from someone in the industry so I really know what I should do next (even if its not what I hoped to hear haha).
Thank you so much! I will definitely work on porting myself into Maya and be more flexible to the industry's needs in the future haha :D
Perfect, sounds good! Best of luck to you! :)
/H
Haha thanks!
I hope you guys will keep making these discussion videos :D
I'm kinda in the same place as you are, I have a good workflow and reached a speed at which I'm really comfortable. I don't even feel limited in any way by Blenders capabilities, but I think I'll have to convert to either max or Maya in the long run, because only indie studios and a few other companies use blender. I've heard that it's okay if you use blender, as long as it doesn't interrupt the studios workflow, but I don't really have the experience...
Portfolio is more important in the mind of your employer and customer than paperwork, like degrees and certs.
Your portfolio is the face of your working capabilities, whether you work in art, production, or sales.