Nintendo: -Can bring back video games after they took stock market crash -Can make iconic gaming masterpieces that inspired a generation to pursue their dreams in gaming -Can make gaming functional for anyone -Can generate massive amounts of hype -Can ignite a spark of wonder and imagination with their intuitive gameplay within seasoned and newcomer gamers Also Nintendo:Still can't run a competent online service in 2020 to save their life and runs an online service that plays in 2005
I've heard excuses like they are nice to their employees and that they make quality games, but what is Nintendo truly? Nobody responds to feedback at the facility except Sakurai, and they really, and I mean REALLY, love their money. How do I know? 4 words: Mario Kart World Tour. Yet, despite all those questionable consumers practices, it's next to impossible to criticize Nintendo on internet. On Reddit, you'll get downvoted to hell by raising the points above. On TH-cam, you'll be raided by angry fanboys... Yes, I know Nintendo is a company who's out for people throat and money, I understand that. Yet, I still wonder how can Nintendo still profit from a family-friendly image with those kind of practices and how so many grown-up people can defend them like their lives depend on it. Some say their games output is good and I somewhat agree, but EA games are good too and yet, no one is afraid to take a dump on the company when they try something fishy. Forza Motorsport is good too and yet, no one is afraid to call Turn10 out on their awful mtx practices. Same goes for the studio behind PUBG, the hate they receive is through the roof, despite PUBG being one of the most successful stories we heard about in the last recent years and a legitimate good game. Their respective fanbase aren't afraid to call them out harshly when they F-up.
@@phantomblue2798 Many people at nintendo may not respond to it but many do listen to it. However like an old stubborn man nintendo is use to not really being able to do anything about it or b not having to because the experience they wanted to put forward is exactly what they gave us and they don't wanna change it. WHICH IS fair and its fine to try and get your players to have a certain experience but this stops at online multiplayer games for the most part. It becomes more and more important to listen to the players atleast to a certain degree but nintendo is like "But we made it this way on purpose so it should stay this way right?" and everyone else there nods their heads in agreement or atleast the majority does. And pretty much every money grubbing game under nintendo's catalog was not made by actual nintendo devs. Its either a smart move to have the blame be able to be placed on some other company, or its ignorance to let their name be slandered by these other companies finding ways to exploit nintendo's library of lovable iconic characters by holding them for ransom (WORLD TOUR). So yea... Nintendo is a good company that while it does definitely like money its clearly a very close secondary goal to putting out good games and honestly nintendo's games are pretty much never not good its only PARTS of them that can be improved which is what makes it so frustrating. Ultimate with good online would easily be a 9.9/10 game but with that online it drops it to 8.0-8.5 territory for me. People too often just like to paint them as virtuous angels that can do no wrong, or a wolf in sheeps clothing putting out an image that they ultimately couldn't care less about and just wanting da MUHNEY. Neither are true but Neither are fully false either
Big Brain: Why not both? We keep both trending so Nintendo will see we are serious about both of these? EDIT: I do mean that we keep both equally trending. So Nintendo knows we want both?
@@slicklyndon1756 why does it need to be trending? Not everyone wants the same character why is everyone trying so hard to make them go in the game didn't they say they already decided all the characters?
@@IAm-zo1bo Ok, but saying nobody wants the same character is such a broad statement, I could say that literally about any other DLC who got in. Nobody is gonna want the same character, there's so many of us it's expected for someone out there to not want a character. Byleth is a massive example. But the hashtag getting out so much is kinda saying something, I may be a massive KH fan, but I was just saying that what's the point of ditching one hashtag for another when you can keep both?? Secondly, there making a second DLC, the first character was a arms character my dude. It's not crazy for it to still be trending.
At this point im just searching for ‘FixUltimateOnline’ on yt, clicking every vid I see, and liking and commenting. Hoping it will make a difference...
Finally, someone who isn't just like "lmao just fix the online, nintendo" and actually acknowledges that it isn't that straightforward. I swear, no one ever mentions netcode, it's always just "fix online".
not to mention *othter* factors that go into online play, latency is almost **never mentioned** except for the console's local connection to the home modem, i tend to only see the generic "fix online" arguments and *bandwidth* be thrown around, to have the best online play especially for frame specific action like smash, the connection to all players *and* the server needs to: >have sub 0 millisecond latency between one another >have no packet loss in transmission >have at least 10Mb/s in both directions >all be using fiber ( none of this telephone line DSL shit everyone uses ) >the console is the only device physically/wirelessly connected to that modem ( livestreaming and voice chat should be done on a *separate internet connection* ) your biggest lag offenders will be players in (unfortunately) rual areas, players who use DSL, players using satellite service my worst experience in any online game ( not even just smash ) was someone in another territory, whose connection kept misplacing internet traffic and had a latency of i shit you not, FIVE minutes
I got banned because my opponents internet connection is bad, and I have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL OVER THAT!!! PISSES ME OFF!! I paid $20 for online, Never again!
The one thing that gets me the most about online, other than the lag from the poor coding, is GSP. It is BY FAR the worst ranking system I have ever seen. In elite smash, you lose 1 match, your ranking tanks, and you win 1, and you barely go up. Literally, go with a freaking Halo or Overwatch style ranking system, everyone starts in Bronze league, and goes up from bronze to silver, gold, platinum, diamond, then champion league. Platinum league can be considered "elite smash" and use points to rank up rather than having GSP. When a person disconnects, you GAIN points not LOSE THEM. And for the love of god, allow us to switch characters when we play the same character. And in elite smash, use the most up to date tournament rules to prevent "GSP hoggers".
What's funny is that most fighting games, like DBFZ, operate in a point-based system with the ranks being just a cosmetic addition. However, those points are not relative to the playerbase, you'll always get Namekian at 70k and Demon at 500k, no matter how many players are there. And what's better, you'll always win more points than you lose against the same player so it encourages rematches more. Sakurai tried so hard at making a ranking point system that appeals to casuals that he forgot about how important is the experience.
At first I cared about GSP but as time passed on I changed my opinion and I was thinking « Alright, I lost 200K I dont care, I just wanna rematch to get better at the game » But 95% of the time people didnt rematch and the thing I realised is that if both you care or you dont care about GSP, it makes the online experience bad. So what I do is almost only battle arenas
@@JaydenXV the online was alot easier not saying it was all great.Atleast when i input something in smash 4 i dont get much input delay.My gc controller stick the rubber, had it for four years.As soon as i start playing ult it breaks.Plus the no gsp made it alot easier.Still the same toxic players.But atleast i could play smoothly.
@@69metersbelow25 Facts. This is going to be a hella controversial statement but I honestly remember having a better gameplay experience in For Glory than in Ultimate's online. Yeah it still lagged, yeah the player were still toxic, but in the end it all seemed like nothing compared to what Ultimate has to offer.
JerryM I got that all the time. It felt so good when I gave the Samus player a dose of his/her own medicine... with a Belmont. Normally I don’t try to be campy when using a Belmont, but I made an exception for this player.
Jason Udosen Not exactly. There are also players who get there by aggressive means, but many are just campers since that’s how they get there in the first place.
I got banned because my opponents internet connection is bad, and I have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL OVER THAT!!! PISSES ME OFF!! I paid $20 for online, Never again!
Implementing rollback netcode after a game has been made is basically not an option for a company as lazy as Nintendo. The real solution is to reduce native input delay like you suggested, on top of that, being able to have connection speed as a preferred rule and make preferred rules actually work is the play.
@Daniel Davies I'm not actually sure. I haven't played Aces. But it is a fairly common feature in fighting games. Even bad netcode games like DBFZ, Guilty Gear and Rivals let you at the very least preview connection speed.
@Daniel Davies yeah and while thats definitely reassuring, it all comes down to the Ultimate dev team. They seem more preoccupied with adding spirits and new characters rather than enriching the core experience.
I used to just be okay with the online, like it was bad obviously, but avoidable, but now I cannot stand it with being locked to playing it since neither of my siblings or parents plays
Lobbies, which can fit so many people, should definitely not be restricted to a single fighting arena. I get that they were trying to replicating an arcade setup but it's not fun to wait for a potentially 8-minute match, especially when you're in the back of a 4-person line. You should be able to just go up to another individual not in a match but in the same lobby and say "Hey, lets fight!" Plain and simple. Hell this would allow for bigger lobbies that feature a beloved ruleset and devalue the preffered ruleset bs we get in "Elite Smash."
If there’s one I wish could be fixed about Smash ultimate, it would definitely be the native input latency. I mean 8 frames, are you kidding me?! Makes moves that already have a larger startup have even more start up. Just makes the whole experience a guessing game. If they could just fix this one thing, it would make me so much happier with the game.
Yeah i dropped like 600 for the switch and smash plus a few other games but mainly JUST for smash and then i get so fucking let down by the shitty online mode. 8(
It'd be nice if we could taunt during quick play. Not being able to spam Ridleys up taunt screech is depressing. Taunts let people express themselves far more than tbagging does. Also, tbagging is commonly seen as a negative gesture where as taunts could convay many more things.
I swear to god Sakurai was stupid to get rid of taunts online. Like I don't give a shit if Taunts can be toxic people will find other ways to be toxic. Also why the hell are taunts in the game if you don't want us using them.
@@criticalyeet1916 bro come on guys, they are obviously trying to make the smash community less toxic by removing taunts. You can’t have everything. Imagine being taunted by someone every time they got a stock
SSBU has been out for almost 2 years now, and people are finally showing it's downsides. It's fun but not flawless. I don't know why it took people so long to properly review this game.
People have talked about this game's horrendous online since launch. it's being brought back up because playing it online is our only choice if we want to play against friends or in tournaments now.
I dont blame you its extremely tilting , you get into elite the first match you prob get is a laggy projectile spammer. I mean I try my best to win those but its so difficult since you cant catch the opponent off guard due to the horrendous lag.
When Smash first came out I was a total noob, so i tanked all my GSP. Now that I know how to play the game im locked in GSP hell. I won 50 Diddy matches in a row and my GSP barely went up, when I lost 1 I was lower than I started. Its frustrating how much GSP you lose compared to how much you win.
I don't believe you won 50 in a row. Even pros would struggle to do that with occasional jank rules, smurfs and other low-GSP BS. That said, the overriding message about being punished for poor early performance rings true.
That's why I dislike playing against a Bowser in a two stocks combat. There will almost always be that one player who will try to steal your last stock.
A toggle to turn off the buffer would also make it feel like there is less input delay. If you try to input a combo involving special for instance, but the lag occurs before your first move comes out, you will be getting a special instead.
The thing is, with the hold buffer, if you're holding the button down, you're more likely to see your move come out. And without it, the best-case scenario is that no move comes out at all. Try recovering in a laggy connection when your up b only registers for one frame
I strongly prefer this situation. I’d rather have to reinput a command than get an outcome I never input. Having a toggle or a slider for the buffer would allow each of us to play how we desire.
@@RunRunRun1901 You can't get moves that you didn't input unless it's with the c stick buffering thing. Your example doesn't make sense either. You would have had to input a special. I'm fine with that cause attack canceling is pretty hype. But, you wouldn't know to input your move again until after you whiff AND you're and able to react. (your reaction time is increased by 180ms.) By that time, while you're recovering for example, you're already dead. If you hold down the move, it'll come out everytime
Good video, only thing to add to it. Bring guests into arenas. Smash 4 could have two players on the same system make a private room but the same can't be done on a paid service? If they actually do end up working on it I would also like to see triples and quad teams online. Make use of all the game's features.
You hit all the key points and I like your solution ideas. I hope they implement them soon. Online is such a piece of work that I’d rather play cpu at times.
bruh why tf in smash online it feels like it takes 2 seconds to jump or hit someone after you click the button???? so damn frustrating!! input latency GOSH DAMNN ITTT
Good that you're contributing to this cause, just two things I disagree with: 10:08 Finding people that use exactly the same rules as you do won't work. It's easy to say that from a 1v1 player's perspective where the ruleset is pretty much standardized and proper opponents can be found, but the current system has so many variables that if you differ from the norm, you're going to have way longer wait times and worse connections. The ability to create rules should probably be reserved for battle arenas and casual play, and we should have a proper 1v1 ranked mode instead. 11:00 I'm neither a netcode expert, but I've heard that implementing a rollback netcode after the game has been made is easier said than done. th-cam.com/video/XDAy8seELLU/w-d-xo.html So we're most likely stuck with the delay netcode, but hey at least it should be easy to improve due to its already garbage state :d
I respect your points, but it's funny that I dropped this video on the same day this #FixUltimate trend started so yeah I just decided to let this video be apart of it lol.
Personally I love the 1v1 2 stcoks tournament mode. But I think they need to separate Smash tourney and 1v1 tourney. Even though 1v1 tournament mode isn’t much of a challenge to win, I love to play it for warming up and not having to worry about losing gsp. If I want to lay back a bit and just play for fun and not for a stupid score, I don’t want to wait for the smash mode to rotate to 1v1.
And the worst part for me is Nintendo literally saying that you should buy a LAN adaptor to get a better connection. So you need to pay 20 more bucks to get an online mode that is still not good...
@@firedodger1265 I have done all of that and quickmatch stills lag, a lot. After dropping smash like 3 years, i dont remember the input lag this bad. I didn't use to have lan or ethernet before, and now, even with that is bad
2:55 Exactly pretty much the only times people rematch is when the other is so trash that they can farm them but then that doesn't work because the opponent leaves
I stopped playing my main characters online because bad habits formed from latent input and lag. I simply found myself mashing because occasionally a solid charged smash atk would hit and kill a lagging young link at 40 😂. Game won’t get fixed but we can hope for a return to sm4sh online. It felt better to me I think
I was so hyped for this game when it was announced. Over 100 stages? Every character from the series history? Ridley!? K. Rool!? Dark Samus!? Banjo!? Castlevania!? And then I played it. After the initial excitement of playing as these long awaited new characters loses its shock, the game's mechanical flaws become very apparent. Single player modes and content are lacking in number and quality - the worst in any Smash game besides the first. The 'Buffer' system is noticeable right away and makes the game feel awkward to play. I can't get used to it without accidentally throwing out smash attacks when I wanted to do a tilt. They should at least let you turn off buffering because to me, it makes the game less fun to play than any previous game. And then the online; options and custom searches are nice in theory, but when it often doesn't work at all, it makes me wish they'd just go back to Smash 4's system. Then there's the net code; the single worst latency I've ever experienced in a video game. Even Brawl was better and Brawl was abysmal. The fact that Nintendo had the nerve to start charging us for online at the launch of this particular game as if it was an incentive is just insulting. Switch's online in general is worse than Wii/U, which was already the worst online service in the history of console gaming. And mark my words - they will NEVER bother to improve it. I wouldn't expect them to ever improve their online infrastructure to be honest. Not until they get some new management.
The GSP system is AWFUL in this game Sometimes I wanna play again and again vs someone better than me and I love to learn against those people since high GSP people don’t quit first match as often But then after playing and losing a lot i go back to low GSP where I get laggy match People who quit after the first match they win Toxic people overall and when I’m back to low GSP I simply don’t want to play the game again for a while This game’s ranking system makes me not wanna play the game anymore sometimes depends if I get toxic people wich happens a lot on low GSP I can’t say anymore except I mostly feel toxic when I play smash online I’d rather play with friends
0:38 You know what's funny when I wanted to play with items for once, I turned Final Smash meter off and items on and you know what the match making system did, it matched me against people with Final Smash meter on and Items off and it only matched against them, except one time when it matched me against someone with stamina.
I don’t get why you’re forced to go back to QP when you lose elite smash. You can play as much as you want and if you lose elite smash, you can still get a rematch regardless. But now the post patch nerfed online. WTF
A think a big thing that people don’t realize about arenas is that you can only have one switch user in an arena. My friend who only has one switch has to take turns with his brother because they can’t both play in the arena at the same time. There’s no excuse for them not adding this feature since animal crossing allows multiple accounts in one switch to play at the same time.
My roommate got EXTREMELY tilted while playing Smash Online. So much so that it discouraged me from buying NSO altogether. But then Animal Crossing came out, and I got NSO so I could trade with my friends and exchange things. Since then, I have tried out Smash Ultimate's Online. The biggest issue is that it's just kind of random the quality of match you'll get. Sometimes you'll get a decent connection, other times there's too much latency to react properly to catch someone who is camping or running away. It's frustrating that I know I have enough skill to beat them anyway, but the lag is holding me back from reacting properly, in a game that is ALL ABOUT reacting to your opponent and learning their habits. After an hour or so of a few good matches, mostly mediocre and some poor, I just have to leave and play against some CPUs. Or play a different game. I've played all of the Super Smash Bros. games except for 64, and I love them all dearly in some way or another, but Ultimate is probably my favorite. If we could get the crisp smoothness of fighting locally and going against human players instead of CPUs who, while better then they've ever been, still fall for dumb traps and are pretty random and hard to read. Man... that would be heavenly.
I'm gonna just have to jump in here and give my (worthless) opinion. LOL So at the start of the video you said Ultimate is in between Splatoon and Mario Maker. I'd actually say its WORSE... MUCH WORSE than either. My reason behind this is INPUT LATENCY. This is a SERIOUS issue in a game that takes move landing precision and perfect timing. I'm not even talking about laggy matches either (like someone with a bad connection). You can have two people with great connections and it still be a horrible experience. When you press a button and it takes upwards (in a good connection) of 10 frames longer for a move to come out over offline play... that's UNACCEPTABLE. Combine this with the buffer system that............................. oh my word.................... just kicks you in the batteries (even in offline but is MUCH worse in online)............... I cannot give Ultimate anything but a clear "F" grade in the online experience department. Honestly, I think Ultimate is the very bottom worst of any online experience I've ever had. We can also take a quick look at GSP. This is literally the WORST possible system they could have picked. Like seriously......... who thought that this would be a good idea? This game should have some kind of game by game star (just my opinion others might be better). You win a game you win a star you lose a game you lose a star. If you DQ or rage quit you still lose a star. NO BANS. Everyone knows Nintendo doesn't punish lag switching etc...... so friggin get rid of bans completely. They're poorly implemented and not necessary. Also, when getting into elite smash you should NOT DROP OUT until the end of a "Smash Season" which should be like a month or two (and that would reset everyone's stars). Also, taunting should return in online play. I don't care about "hurting somone's feelers". Taunting is an intricate part of the mental game of smash. You should be allowed 3-4 taunts a game (to keep taunt parties from happening). These are just my opinions.
You forgot to add the part where if an opponent rage quits/leaves a quick play match, they make you remain at the same gsp. This isn’t exactly fair due to five year olds playing the game and rage quitting after a fair match
I think one of the things Nintendo should take advantage of their friendship with Microsoft is to ask help to set a decent competitive multiplayer network
In my last session, I lost three games in a row. They were all close, but fair. In order to try and recoup my losses, I kept playing. The next three games all ended up with my three different opponents disconnecting just as I was winning (one game I was 3-1 up, one game was after a Sudden Death win and the third was during his final star KO animation). When that spinning white loading circle appears just before the results screen, you know you've been robbed. Losing GSP for losses but gaining none for wins is really depressing :(
i get that making the netcode less laggy might be really difficult, but not fixing things like preffered rules/getting kicked from queue to change character/GSP is inexcusable and lazy.
Tbh I could live with *all of these negatives* as long as Nintendo *would implement a decent netcode* . I'm new to fighters and platform fighters, I have next to no interest in singleplayer campaigns but as a newer player the online in SSBU just isn't fun. I've got a wired 1000mbps connection, an average ping of 2-19 in other games on my PC yet I can instantly feel a huge amount of input lag as soon as I have a SSBU online match even when it's local. Then there's the *actually* laggy matches wich are a mix between a chess match and a slideshow. You have to predict the entire fight and input ahead of time and then watch it unfold in slowmotion slide-show style. I really, really love the game itself but I despise the online play. Even F2P alternatives like Brawlhalla are perfectly playable online (on console or PC with crossplay enabled) and only glitch out every dozen of matches. I'm baffled as to why Nintendo claims to ''have looked into rollback netcode, but decided against it'' or whatever, because they're not doing a good job of providing a better alternative. It's probably my worst online experience since trying CS 1.5 on my first internet connection with 350 ping average. And that's not exaggerated.
It rly hurts me to say this but the online system is a fricking mess. The fact that the preferred rules aren’t always gonna work, the lag is gonna drill the game, and the fact u can’t change characters per person SUCKS. I love playing competitive and during this quarantine I was hoping I could enter online tournaments. Sadly I can’t because ik I’m gonna be sinking in 20 dollars only for the game to explode.
I just want a compatibility meter. I want to be able to see if me and my opponent have connections that work for each other if not, I can have the choice not to accept the match. Instead I walk into a laggy match and me and opponent have to decide who's gonna lose GSP, and I also have to wait for my opponent to kick me off the level because if I SD too much I get suspended from online. Smash online is disturbingly bad. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut Imma keep playing :(
Smash online is so bad that Nintendo should legit be getting sued for that instead of joycon drift. How the hell can you legally make people pay for your online services when they're this bad? It's not even worth $5 a year. PS+ was free 2 gens ago and that was better than this.
TBH, I would be really worried if they added rollback to Ultimate. I feel like they would add too much rollback to it, which can create instances where somebody can teleport across the screen. It would make laggy matches feel even worse, as you literally HAVE to play defensive in order to not get randomly killed. Granted, if it is done well, it would be amazing, but the "done well" part is what I am worried about.
It's actually even worse than you describe. Not only does the game have terrible native input delay, it FORCES at least another 5 frames of delay in online play, no matter the connection. So while other delay-based fighting games like DBFZ or Tekken 7 will try to get the delay as low as possible whenever it can, Smash will ALWAYS have AT LEAST 5 frames of delay. Source: twitter.com/SB_Dax/status/1244270249349771264 Rollback needs to become the standard in not only fighting games, but also multiplayer games like Mario Maker. Delaying inputs is so much worse than the occasional (in 99% of cases, unnoticable) teleport. Imagine if any shooter or something like Mario Kart delayed your inputs online, that shit would immediately become unplayable.
You're arguing for rollback at the end which isn't possible for Nintendo, or at least would cost them more development time than an entire DLC pack (without knowing if it's even possible to pull off) with very little financial incentive. That said, melee netplay enforces a 6 frame buffer most of the time, and that's considered a good connection. For example, pound online for melee had people use a 6 frame buffer.
@@Calebanton It's definitely possible, whether it's financially beneficial for them is a different question. I doubt it is. I have no idea how Melee netplay works. Is buffer the same as delay? If it's the same, then it should allow you to make the buffer/delay lower if the connection between both players allows for it. Forcing more delay than is necessary (which is what Ultimate does) is really bad. You should try to get the input delay as low as possible, or in rollback's case, choose a number you feel comfortable with that won't change during the match.
@@bert6236 I understand that. But even in ideal conditions without crappy hardware, the minimum buffer for melee is still generally agreed to 6. With a 4 frame buffer, all that has to happen is that just for an insanely brief moment, the ping has to spike about 60ms, and then you get slowdown. Even if a connection seems to be below that at the start of the match, chances are very high that it will spike and cause freezing during the match. You simply can't know if it would spike above 80ms at any point in the match without waiting before the match for the length of the match. Melee buffer won't ever go to 5 frames, only if you set it manually there. 5 is a good baseline
I love how dragon ball fighterz has the same problem with battle arenas in smash yet people don’t complain about that but complain about smash ultimate, with not choosing ur characters while waiting in line and not being able to spectate while players are in mid game.
What's also puzzling is, not only does the game coin flip to find who gets their rules, they do it after rematches as well. Meaning someone could get their rules multiple times in a row, instead of just rotating.
I like Ultimate. It took me over 200 hours to change my opinion of it from it being my least favorite Smash when I first started playing (mainly due to changing how defensive options work and having the worse input lag), but I slowly adjusted over time. But I could never take the online seriously due to the issues mentioned in the video. It’s absolutely atrocious and it genuinely bums me out that it is the way it is. For me Ultimate is great when I play just for fun but it’s the worst when it comes to online/competitive.
Sometimes you actually get lucky and somehow win quick play battles, and sometimes it feels like trying to beat Mario 2: the lost levels’ C-3 while half asleep, literally impossible.
One of my main issues with GSP is that the gain/loss is incredibly unbalanced. Between 1 million and 6 million, a win or loss changes your GSP by at least 400,000, and it's about a 20,000 change under 1 million or over 6 million. It seems to suggest "Either you're awful at the game, or great at the game. There's little room for in between." It makes practicing as a character you aren't great on, yet not awful on either, a bit annoying as you're jumping between destroying bad players and getting destroyed by good players.
Good video. This a Japanese developer thing lol... Like they do so many things right and just those few things... Not complete. Like wtf. (Not just for online stuff: like menus, interfaces, general quality of life, etc)
Two things... Arenas need a change to allow multiple players from the same console, me and bro and others have had this complaint, can only do Quickplay doubles if we want to play online together, which has Team Attack off. Need to add that finding doubles on Quickplay if you are alone, btw, via preferred rules is near impossible
Some if not all of the changes you talk about could make the online more toxic, and connections even worse. If you limit matchmaking to people who have the exact same rules matchmaking would either 4 to 5 times as long or you would be matched with people who's connections are significantly worse then what you experience now. Also getting the rules you want every time will result in players only playing stages that favor there character heavily, like samus or little mac only going fd and making the stage unplayable with the amount of camping that would happen. A lot of the changes you want are tied to the maturity level of the player base, and smash is one of the most toxic do anything to win playerbases in gaming. Also rollback won't work for smash, gamestate is to variable and would result in people teleporting everywhere. In the clip you had shown of sf5's lagging rollback marth could either be dashdance out of reach or be jumping above you hitting a dair in the time it would take for the game to catch up. The game moves too fast for rollback, which is why fps games don't rollback because it just isn't plausible with all the movement in the game. Inb4 melee netplay, they have to arrange matches over discord and if you lag you are banned from the discord.
12:12 Actually there is an excuse for smash seeing as there are tons of rulesets and most of them don't work with rollback (especially items) so they can't really add it, and if they do they'd have to go back to For Fun, and For Glory but people hated that.
Glad I watched this video before buying a Switch. I will still buy it though and just train offline. Really was hoping not to go through the same online crap that I went through with Brawl
@@JaydenXV my internet is really good so hopefully I can get some decent playing. At the very least I'm assuming I won't have an issue with my brother who is 30min away from me
11:04 I actually disagree with you on that, because smash has tons of didn't ruleset combinations and most of them wouldn't work online with Roleback as it would be too complicated to implement.
I think the idea you had for a training room in battle arenas is pretty good and I also agree that its annoying to get kicked out of line for switching characters. Although I personally like spectating since I enjoy watching others play. I have my own problem with battle arenas and its that you can't instantly get into spectating if you enter the line too slow. I feel that it should let you watch from the point the match is currently at, waiting in line while not being able to spectate feels boring to me. Also changing music or your stage kicks you out of the line and I dislike it as much as I dislike getting kicked out of the line for switching characters.
Get a LAN adapter, they said. It would make online better, they said. The only difference that made was make my matches more stable, but at least on wifi I could depend on the lag to be able to react. Clean connection with hella delay might be worse.
Forgot to mention the broken rematch function. If you choose to not rematch your opponent you will still probably get in the match with them due to their matchmaking system not excluding the players you don't want to play against
GSP is the worst decision ever. Promotes one and done matches with cheap and spammy victories. There is no rematches or fun, its just who wins once or loses once leaves, you win guy leaves he doesn't wanna lose again, you lose he still backs out because you were adapting to the cheese. Plus battle arena is good if you just wanna go two v two but if you wanna change opponent you have to exit and find another arena or if there are multiple people once you lose once youvwait 10 minutes...
It's very easy to say "delay is immediately bad" but Smash has lots of things to consider, much more than what people seem to understand about netcode. I've yet to see someone explain how rollback would be implemented in Smash without it having some tremendous shortcomings, especially because it's not always a 1v1 no-items match.
Wolf main since day 1. Idk why but I'm pretty good with various characters online but I'm terrible with wolf online. Every movement and spacing is off by a mile. Shit breaks my heart.
I HATE SMASH ONLINE, I DISCONNECT ONCE AND NOW I'M BANNED FOR LIKE TWO HOURS AND ONCE YOU ENTER A MATCH THERE IS NO WAY TO EXIT, SO IF YOU RUN INTO A PLAYER WHO JUST SPAMMING YOU OPTIONS ARE EITHER A. SUFFER AND LOSE GSP, OR B. QUIT AND BANNED FOR TWO HOURS. ALSO YOU CAN'T SEE WHO YOU'RE FIGHTING BEFORE STARTING THE MATCH.
There ain’t nothing like losing 2.4 million GSP in 2 games
Yoda Gaming I was at 6.8 million GSP with Luigi but I lost 2.4 million GSP in two matches
Yoda Gaming yeah it is so BS how GSP works. You win a match? Have 10K GSP. Lose? You gotta pay north of 500K every time you lose. Such BS.
Imagine playing against spamming Ness that is actually good...
And then you win and get 300k
@Average Brenden More like... your opponent rage quits so you get no GSP points for winning
Knowing Nintendo, they won't fix it until Smash 8.
They would still be behind
there's a reason Ultimate means final
@@aIkaIi
What do you mean by that?
@@falcons0267 Well, it might be the last smash game. They seem to be going all out with the fan service.
@@aIkaIi
Yet with shit online
Nintendo:
-Can bring back video games after they took stock market crash
-Can make iconic gaming masterpieces that inspired a generation to pursue their dreams in gaming
-Can make gaming functional for anyone
-Can generate massive amounts of hype
-Can ignite a spark of wonder and imagination with their intuitive gameplay within seasoned and newcomer gamers
Also Nintendo:Still can't run a competent online service in 2020 to save their life and runs an online service that plays in 2005
Their contributions to gaming heavily outweigh that online take.
@@rayminishi689 it makes it even more frustrating, knowing they're capable of doing better but they just don't.
I've heard excuses like they are nice to their employees and that they make quality games, but what is Nintendo truly? Nobody responds to feedback at the facility except Sakurai, and they really, and I mean REALLY, love their money. How do I know? 4 words: Mario Kart World Tour. Yet, despite all those questionable consumers practices, it's next to impossible to criticize Nintendo on internet. On Reddit, you'll get downvoted to hell by raising the points above. On TH-cam, you'll be raided by angry fanboys...
Yes, I know Nintendo is a company who's out for people throat and money, I understand that. Yet, I still wonder how can Nintendo still profit from a family-friendly image with those kind of practices and how so many grown-up people can defend them like their lives depend on it. Some say their games output is good and I somewhat agree, but EA games are good too and yet, no one is afraid to take a dump on the company when they try something fishy. Forza Motorsport is good too and yet, no one is afraid to call Turn10 out on their awful mtx practices. Same goes for the studio behind PUBG, the hate they receive is through the roof, despite PUBG being one of the most successful stories we heard about in the last recent years and a legitimate good game. Their respective fanbase aren't afraid to call them out harshly when they F-up.
@@phantomblue2798 Many people at nintendo may not respond to it but many do listen to it. However like an old stubborn man nintendo is use to not really being able to do anything about it or b not having to because the experience they wanted to put forward is exactly what they gave us and they don't wanna change it. WHICH IS fair and its fine to try and get your players to have a certain experience but this stops at online multiplayer games for the most part. It becomes more and more important to listen to the players atleast to a certain degree but nintendo is like "But we made it this way on purpose so it should stay this way right?" and everyone else there nods their heads in agreement or atleast the majority does. And pretty much every money grubbing game under nintendo's catalog was not made by actual nintendo devs. Its either a smart move to have the blame be able to be placed on some other company, or its ignorance to let their name be slandered by these other companies finding ways to exploit nintendo's library of lovable iconic characters by holding them for ransom (WORLD TOUR). So yea... Nintendo is a good company that while it does definitely like money its clearly a very close secondary goal to putting out good games and honestly nintendo's games are pretty much never not good its only PARTS of them that can be improved which is what makes it so frustrating. Ultimate with good online would easily be a 9.9/10 game but with that online it drops it to 8.0-8.5 territory for me. People too often just like to paint them as virtuous angels that can do no wrong, or a wolf in sheeps clothing putting out an image that they ultimately couldn't care less about and just wanting da MUHNEY. Neither are true but Neither are fully false either
BUT THATS JUST MY OPINION I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING I SAID IS CORRECT FOR A FACT! XD
Man Imma be honest... forget SORA4SMASH Trending, we NEED FixUltimate Trending
Big Brain:
Why not both? We keep both trending so Nintendo will see we are serious about both of these?
EDIT: I do mean that we keep both equally trending. So Nintendo knows we want both?
@@slicklyndon1756 sora4smash is not a complaint if it is y'all sad
@@IAm-zo1bo I'm confused? I just said we keep both trending. I never said it was a complaint.
@@slicklyndon1756 why does it need to be trending? Not everyone wants the same character why is everyone trying so hard to make them go in the game didn't they say they already decided all the characters?
@@IAm-zo1bo Ok, but saying nobody wants the same character is such a broad statement, I could say that literally about any other DLC who got in. Nobody is gonna want the same character, there's so many of us it's expected for someone out there to not want a character. Byleth is a massive example. But the hashtag getting out so much is kinda saying something, I may be a massive KH fan, but I was just saying that what's the point of ditching one hashtag for another when you can keep both?? Secondly, there making a second DLC, the first character was a arms character my dude. It's not crazy for it to still be trending.
Its so bad, theres separate tier lists for both online and offline
Even if the online was good that would probably still be the case
@@JaydenXV Yea, but they would be closer.
At this point im just searching for ‘FixUltimateOnline’ on yt, clicking every vid I see, and liking and commenting.
Hoping it will make a difference...
Same
SMM2 + Online = PURGATORY
#FixSMM2Online
Just joined your squad
It ain't much, but it's honest work.
It wont untill you kill all the boomers at nintendo.
Finally, someone who isn't just like "lmao just fix the online, nintendo" and actually acknowledges that it isn't that straightforward.
I swear, no one ever mentions netcode, it's always just "fix online".
not to mention *othter* factors that go into online play, latency is almost **never mentioned** except for the console's local connection to the home modem, i tend to only see the generic "fix online" arguments and *bandwidth* be thrown around, to have the best online play especially for frame specific action like smash, the connection to all players *and* the server needs to:
>have sub 0 millisecond latency between one another
>have no packet loss in transmission
>have at least 10Mb/s in both directions
>all be using fiber ( none of this telephone line DSL shit everyone uses )
>the console is the only device physically/wirelessly connected to that modem ( livestreaming and voice chat should be done on a *separate internet connection* )
your biggest lag offenders will be players in (unfortunately) rual areas, players who use DSL, players using satellite service
my worst experience in any online game ( not even just smash ) was someone in another territory, whose connection kept misplacing internet traffic and had a latency of i shit you not, FIVE minutes
ugh
Connects to McDonalds WiFi.
“NINTENDO do something about the servers!”
I got banned because my opponents internet connection is bad, and I have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL OVER THAT!!!
PISSES ME OFF!!
I paid $20 for online, Never again!
@@lordbunbury There are no damn servers.
The one thing that gets me the most about online, other than the lag from the poor coding, is GSP. It is BY FAR the worst ranking system I have ever seen. In elite smash, you lose 1 match, your ranking tanks, and you win 1, and you barely go up. Literally, go with a freaking Halo or Overwatch style ranking system, everyone starts in Bronze league, and goes up from bronze to silver, gold, platinum, diamond, then champion league. Platinum league can be considered "elite smash" and use points to rank up rather than having GSP. When a person disconnects, you GAIN points not LOSE THEM. And for the love of god, allow us to switch characters when we play the same character. And in elite smash, use the most up to date tournament rules to prevent "GSP hoggers".
I HATE GSP TOO IT SUUUCKS. I end up playing someone who is way worse than me, and I get freaking cheesed and stuck in 100,000 gsp hell.
What's funny is that most fighting games, like DBFZ, operate in a point-based system with the ranks being just a cosmetic addition. However, those points are not relative to the playerbase, you'll always get Namekian at 70k and Demon at 500k, no matter how many players are there. And what's better, you'll always win more points than you lose against the same player so it encourages rematches more. Sakurai tried so hard at making a ranking point system that appeals to casuals that he forgot about how important is the experience.
GSP is nothing more than a win streak. Which is okay to have as a side thing, but not okay at all to determine match making
It's either elite or you are not
At first I cared about GSP but as time passed on I changed my opinion and I was thinking « Alright, I lost 200K I dont care, I just wanna rematch to get better at the game » But 95% of the time people didnt rematch and the thing I realised is that if both you care or you dont care about GSP, it makes the online experience bad. So what I do is almost only battle arenas
This game is phenomenal but I do wish the online was better It’s been like that for every current smash brothers since brawl
Smash 4 was better
@@JaydenXV the online was alot easier not saying it was all great.Atleast when i input something in smash 4 i dont get much input delay.My gc controller stick the rubber, had it for four years.As soon as i start playing ult it breaks.Plus the no gsp made it alot easier.Still the same toxic players.But atleast i could play smoothly.
@@JaydenXV In this timeline
@@69metersbelow25 Facts. This is going to be a hella controversial statement but I honestly remember having a better gameplay experience in For Glory than in Ultimate's online. Yeah it still lagged, yeah the player were still toxic, but in the end it all seemed like nothing compared to what Ultimate has to offer.
@@JaydenXV don't do that
2:08 the lag is so bad, Pokémon Trainer was just faceplamed and Bowser had to check up on him, lol.
I hate smash ultimate online sometimes
All I get are low tiers and Teabagging Samus’ that camp out neutral B
JerryM I got that all the time. It felt so good when I gave the Samus player a dose of his/her own medicine... with a Belmont. Normally I don’t try to be campy when using a Belmont, but I made an exception for this player.
Elite smash is just high tiers campers
@@aIkaIi really?
Jason Udosen
Not exactly. There are also players who get there by aggressive means, but many are just campers since that’s how they get there in the first place.
@@eddiemate huh I didn't know that
I got banned because my opponents internet connection is bad, and I have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL OVER THAT!!!
PISSES ME OFF!!
I paid $20 for online, Never again!
Implementing rollback netcode after a game has been made is basically not an option for a company as lazy as Nintendo. The real solution is to reduce native input delay like you suggested, on top of that, being able to have connection speed as a preferred rule and make preferred rules actually work is the play.
@Daniel Davies I'm not actually sure. I haven't played Aces. But it is a fairly common feature in fighting games. Even bad netcode games like DBFZ, Guilty Gear and Rivals let you at the very least preview connection speed.
@Daniel Davies yeah and while thats definitely reassuring, it all comes down to the Ultimate dev team. They seem more preoccupied with adding spirits and new characters rather than enriching the core experience.
It’s not just your feeling. Spectating does in fact add lag to the match.
Wait it does?
@@newmoonlex Yes, and it's the exact reason why the game warns you when you create an arena with more than 6 player slots.
I used to just be okay with the online, like it was bad obviously, but avoidable, but now I cannot stand it with being locked to playing it since neither of my siblings or parents plays
Lobbies, which can fit so many people, should definitely not be restricted to a single fighting arena. I get that they were trying to replicating an arcade setup but it's not fun to wait for a potentially 8-minute match, especially when you're in the back of a 4-person line.
You should be able to just go up to another individual not in a match but in the same lobby and say "Hey, lets fight!" Plain and simple. Hell this would allow for bigger lobbies that feature a beloved ruleset and devalue the preffered ruleset bs we get in "Elite Smash."
If there’s one I wish could be fixed about Smash ultimate, it would definitely be the native input latency. I mean 8 frames, are you kidding me?! Makes moves that already have a larger startup have even more start up. Just makes the whole experience a guessing game. If they could just fix this one thing, it would make me so much happier with the game.
Yeah they need to do something bout this online quick I bought the switch just for smash like cmon.
Yeah i dropped like 600 for the switch and smash plus a few other games but mainly JUST for smash and then i get so fucking let down by the shitty online mode. 8(
Magic Bufo facts. im holding back rn was about to drop the money on one and a gamecube controller
Connects to McDonalds WiFi.
“NINTENDO do something about the servers!”
@@lordbunbury shut yo dumbass up
@@darrinbailey4966 I ain’t that street yo homeboy with the switch
It'd be nice if we could taunt during quick play.
Not being able to spam Ridleys up taunt screech is depressing.
Taunts let people express themselves far more than tbagging does.
Also, tbagging is commonly seen as a negative gesture where as taunts could convay many more things.
I should of brought this up too Lol
Taunting made it way more fun
I swear to god Sakurai was stupid to get rid of taunts online. Like I don't give a shit if Taunts can be toxic people will find other ways to be toxic. Also why the hell are taunts in the game if you don't want us using them.
Yeah and including kazuya taunts you're just removing like a lot of moves from one character
@@criticalyeet1916 bro come on guys, they are obviously trying to make the smash community less toxic by removing taunts. You can’t have everything. Imagine being taunted by someone every time they got a stock
SSBU has been out for almost 2 years now, and people are finally showing it's downsides. It's fun but not flawless. I don't know why it took people so long to properly review this game.
This honestly is the biggest gripe for me in this entire game. Online just amplifies some of the flaws that are there.
People have talked about this game's horrendous online since launch. it's being brought back up because playing it online is our only choice if we want to play against friends or in tournaments now.
James Alexander thank you op questions makes no sense we’re in quarantine so of course this will be put to the forefront all we have is online now....
Ultimate is my favorite smash game, but honestly i agree. No game deserves to be worshipped constantly, especially when there are glaring flaws in it.
Smash Ultimate Online is the main reason why I never got to Elite Smash. I can't buy a USB to Ethernet cable so I get a lot of lag
I dont blame you its extremely tilting , you get into elite the first match you prob get is a laggy projectile spammer.
I mean I try my best to win those but its so difficult since you cant catch the opponent off guard due to the horrendous lag.
Here’s how they can fix smash online:
Bring back for fun and for glory
i kind of agree but i dont really wana see battlefield mode go
And remove that stupid ranking system
@@destinee2052 facts I fucking hate gsp
When Smash first came out I was a total noob, so i tanked all my GSP. Now that I know how to play the game im locked in GSP hell. I won 50 Diddy matches in a row and my GSP barely went up, when I lost 1 I was lower than I started. Its frustrating how much GSP you lose compared to how much you win.
I don't believe you won 50 in a row.
Even pros would struggle to do that with occasional jank rules, smurfs and other low-GSP BS.
That said, the overriding message about being punished for poor early performance rings true.
Smash 4 online was also bad! For glory is bad until ultimate came out..... " You don't know what you've got till it's gone!"
You could say that again.
11:56
You guys wanna talk about how guilty gear strive is also getting rollback netcode?
The FGC is gonna have to unfortunately shill the game even if its bad so we can get Rollback in more games
Weirdly enough, this was the first video I’ve seen that actually explained it well besides the one in the description
I’m pretty sure the only reason anyone ever puts their rule set on two stocks is to mess their opponent up and cheese the win.
That's why I dislike playing against a Bowser in a two stocks combat. There will almost always be that one player who will try to steal your last stock.
A toggle to turn off the buffer would also make it feel like there is less input delay. If you try to input a combo involving special for instance, but the lag occurs before your first move comes out, you will be getting a special instead.
The thing is, with the hold buffer, if you're holding the button down, you're more likely to see your move come out. And without it, the best-case scenario is that no move comes out at all. Try recovering in a laggy connection when your up b only registers for one frame
I strongly prefer this situation. I’d rather have to reinput a command than get an outcome I never input. Having a toggle or a slider for the buffer would allow each of us to play how we desire.
@@RunRunRun1901 You can't get moves that you didn't input unless it's with the c stick buffering thing. Your example doesn't make sense either. You would have had to input a special. I'm fine with that cause attack canceling is pretty hype. But, you wouldn't know to input your move again until after you whiff AND you're and able to react. (your reaction time is increased by 180ms.) By that time, while you're recovering for example, you're already dead. If you hold down the move, it'll come out everytime
Caleb1243 you can spam through the lag. You aren’t reacting to the lag ending
@@RunRunRun1901 spamming doesn't always work, which is why people get dropped inputs. Holding down will always work no matter what
Good video, only thing to add to it. Bring guests into arenas. Smash 4 could have two players on the same system make a private room but the same can't be done on a paid service? If they actually do end up working on it I would also like to see triples and quad teams online. Make use of all the game's features.
You hit all the key points and I like your solution ideas. I hope they implement them soon. Online is such a piece of work that I’d rather play cpu at times.
bruh why tf in smash online it feels like it takes 2 seconds to jump or hit someone after you click the button???? so damn frustrating!! input latency GOSH DAMNN ITTT
Thought I was the only one
Good that you're contributing to this cause, just two things I disagree with:
10:08 Finding people that use exactly the same rules as you do won't work. It's easy to say that from a 1v1 player's perspective where the ruleset is pretty much standardized and proper opponents can be found, but the current system has so many variables that if you differ from the norm, you're going to have way longer wait times and worse connections. The ability to create rules should probably be reserved for battle arenas and casual play, and we should have a proper 1v1 ranked mode instead.
11:00 I'm neither a netcode expert, but I've heard that implementing a rollback netcode after the game has been made is easier said than done. th-cam.com/video/XDAy8seELLU/w-d-xo.html So we're most likely stuck with the delay netcode, but hey at least it should be easy to improve due to its already garbage state :d
I respect your points, but it's funny that I dropped this video on the same day this #FixUltimate trend started so yeah I just decided to let this video be apart of it lol.
@@JaydenXV Lol but good job anyways and left a like.
Finally I see someone addressing that gsp makes people leave after one match and encourage lame play
Personally I love the 1v1 2 stcoks tournament mode. But I think they need to separate Smash tourney and 1v1 tourney. Even though 1v1 tournament mode isn’t much of a challenge to win, I love to play it for warming up and not having to worry about losing gsp. If I want to lay back a bit and just play for fun and not for a stupid score, I don’t want to wait for the smash mode to rotate to 1v1.
And the worst part for me is Nintendo literally saying that you should buy a LAN adaptor to get a better connection. So you need to pay 20 more bucks to get an online mode that is still not good...
Plus your router has to be near where you are playing and not everyone is able to have their whole setup next to their router
@@firedodger1265 I have done all of that and quickmatch stills lag, a lot.
After dropping smash like 3 years, i dont remember the input lag this bad.
I didn't use to have lan or ethernet before, and now, even with that is bad
They NEED to add squad strike
Evo 2020 is about to clown on nintendo so hard. Cus its online tourney.
Watch everyone just disregard the results as inaccurate due to poorly implemented online netcode.
@@CoolMintMC well they wouldn't be wrong, there is so much frame delay on wi fi that its basically another mode
@@pandinus1377 True, true.
valy0f doesn’t give much of an excuse for poorly made online mode
Not anymore...
2:55 Exactly pretty much the only times people rematch is when the other is so trash that they can farm them but then that doesn't work because the opponent leaves
I stopped playing my main characters online because bad habits formed from latent input and lag. I simply found myself mashing because occasionally a solid charged smash atk would hit and kill a lagging young link at 40 😂. Game won’t get fixed but we can hope for a return to sm4sh online. It felt better to me I think
I was so hyped for this game when it was announced. Over 100 stages? Every character from the series history? Ridley!? K. Rool!? Dark Samus!? Banjo!? Castlevania!? And then I played it. After the initial excitement of playing as these long awaited new characters loses its shock, the game's mechanical flaws become very apparent.
Single player modes and content are lacking in number and quality - the worst in any Smash game besides the first. The 'Buffer' system is noticeable right away and makes the game feel awkward to play. I can't get used to it without accidentally throwing out smash attacks when I wanted to do a tilt. They should at least let you turn off buffering because to me, it makes the game less fun to play than any previous game. And then the online; options and custom searches are nice in theory, but when it often doesn't work at all, it makes me wish they'd just go back to Smash 4's system. Then there's the net code; the single worst latency I've ever experienced in a video game. Even Brawl was better and Brawl was abysmal. The fact that Nintendo had the nerve to start charging us for online at the launch of this particular game as if it was an incentive is just insulting. Switch's online in general is worse than Wii/U, which was already the worst online service in the history of console gaming.
And mark my words - they will NEVER bother to improve it. I wouldn't expect them to ever improve their online infrastructure to be honest. Not until they get some new management.
The GSP system is AWFUL in this game
Sometimes I wanna play again and again vs someone better than me and I love to learn against those people since high GSP people don’t quit first match as often
But then after playing and losing a lot i go back to low GSP where I get laggy match
People who quit after the first match they win
Toxic people overall and when I’m back to low GSP I simply don’t want to play the game again for a while
This game’s ranking system makes me not wanna play the game anymore sometimes depends if I get toxic people wich happens a lot on low GSP
I can’t say anymore except I mostly feel toxic when I play smash online I’d rather play with friends
Same because there's so much like it's so annoying
0:38 You know what's funny when I wanted to play with items for once, I turned Final Smash meter off and items on and you know what the match making system did, it matched me against people with Final Smash meter on and Items off and it only matched against them, except one time when it matched me against someone with stamina.
I don’t get why you’re forced to go back to QP when you lose elite smash. You can play as much as you want and if you lose elite smash, you can still get a rematch regardless. But now the post patch nerfed online. WTF
A think a big thing that people don’t realize about arenas is that you can only have one switch user in an arena. My friend who only has one switch has to take turns with his brother because they can’t both play in the arena at the same time. There’s no excuse for them not adding this feature since animal crossing allows multiple accounts in one switch to play at the same time.
Online in smash pisses me off especially when u don't have that many to play locally there's no excuse to why the online is so bad
Both players win a match let's finish the set... player left the game.
My roommate got EXTREMELY tilted while playing Smash Online. So much so that it discouraged me from buying NSO altogether. But then Animal Crossing came out, and I got NSO so I could trade with my friends and exchange things. Since then, I have tried out Smash Ultimate's Online.
The biggest issue is that it's just kind of random the quality of match you'll get. Sometimes you'll get a decent connection, other times there's too much latency to react properly to catch someone who is camping or running away. It's frustrating that I know I have enough skill to beat them anyway, but the lag is holding me back from reacting properly, in a game that is ALL ABOUT reacting to your opponent and learning their habits.
After an hour or so of a few good matches, mostly mediocre and some poor, I just have to leave and play against some CPUs. Or play a different game.
I've played all of the Super Smash Bros. games except for 64, and I love them all dearly in some way or another, but Ultimate is probably my favorite. If we could get the crisp smoothness of fighting locally and going against human players instead of CPUs who, while better then they've ever been, still fall for dumb traps and are pretty random and hard to read.
Man... that would be heavenly.
I would really appreciate an option for team damage in co-op online
I'm gonna just have to jump in here and give my (worthless) opinion. LOL
So at the start of the video you said Ultimate is in between Splatoon and Mario Maker. I'd actually say its WORSE... MUCH WORSE than either. My reason behind this is INPUT LATENCY. This is a SERIOUS issue in a game that takes move landing precision and perfect timing. I'm not even talking about laggy matches either (like someone with a bad connection). You can have two people with great connections and it still be a horrible experience. When you press a button and it takes upwards (in a good connection) of 10 frames longer for a move to come out over offline play... that's UNACCEPTABLE. Combine this with the buffer system that............................. oh my word.................... just kicks you in the batteries (even in offline but is MUCH worse in online)............... I cannot give Ultimate anything but a clear "F" grade in the online experience department. Honestly, I think Ultimate is the very bottom worst of any online experience I've ever had.
We can also take a quick look at GSP. This is literally the WORST possible system they could have picked. Like seriously......... who thought that this would be a good idea? This game should have some kind of game by game star (just my opinion others might be better). You win a game you win a star you lose a game you lose a star. If you DQ or rage quit you still lose a star. NO BANS. Everyone knows Nintendo doesn't punish lag switching etc...... so friggin get rid of bans completely. They're poorly implemented and not necessary. Also, when getting into elite smash you should NOT DROP OUT until the end of a "Smash Season" which should be like a month or two (and that would reset everyone's stars).
Also, taunting should return in online play. I don't care about "hurting somone's feelers". Taunting is an intricate part of the mental game of smash. You should be allowed 3-4 taunts a game (to keep taunt parties from happening).
These are just my opinions.
12:39 We can't because of those "but daddy Sakurai work really hard" people.
Don't Blame the creator,Blame the Company
Uncle Shrek EXACTLY.
It’s Sakurai fault we have GSP and terrible connections.
@@timhiltz6323 I get that GSP is bad because he implemented in but the online conection is nintendo's fault
You forgot to add the part where if an opponent rage quits/leaves a quick play match, they make you remain at the same gsp. This isn’t exactly fair due to five year olds playing the game and rage quitting after a fair match
I think one of the things Nintendo should take advantage of their friendship with Microsoft is to ask help to set a decent competitive multiplayer network
In my last session, I lost three games in a row. They were all close, but fair.
In order to try and recoup my losses, I kept playing.
The next three games all ended up with my three different opponents disconnecting just as I was winning (one game I was 3-1 up, one game was after a Sudden Death win and the third was during his final star KO animation).
When that spinning white loading circle appears just before the results screen, you know you've been robbed.
Losing GSP for losses but gaining none for wins is really depressing :(
I love smash but it NEEDS to be fixed
i get that making the netcode less laggy might be really difficult, but not fixing things like preffered rules/getting kicked from queue to change character/GSP is inexcusable and lazy.
And getting zero GSP when your opponent disconnects just before losing his final stock.
Dude, please make sure nintendo sees this, I really want smash online to be fixed, I liked how it was in smash 4, for glory and for fun
It's up to you guys the viewers to share this out and make it big so nintendo can see it.
Tbh I could live with *all of these negatives* as long as Nintendo *would implement a decent netcode* . I'm new to fighters and platform fighters, I have next to no interest in singleplayer campaigns but as a newer player the online in SSBU just isn't fun. I've got a wired 1000mbps connection, an average ping of 2-19 in other games on my PC yet I can instantly feel a huge amount of input lag as soon as I have a SSBU online match even when it's local. Then there's the *actually* laggy matches wich are a mix between a chess match and a slideshow. You have to predict the entire fight and input ahead of time and then watch it unfold in slowmotion slide-show style. I really, really love the game itself but I despise the online play. Even F2P alternatives like Brawlhalla are perfectly playable online (on console or PC with crossplay enabled) and only glitch out every dozen of matches. I'm baffled as to why Nintendo claims to ''have looked into rollback netcode, but decided against it'' or whatever, because they're not doing a good job of providing a better alternative. It's probably my worst online experience since trying CS 1.5 on my first internet connection with 350 ping average. And that's not exaggerated.
It rly hurts me to say this but the online system is a fricking mess. The fact that the preferred rules aren’t always gonna work, the lag is gonna drill the game, and the fact u can’t change characters per person SUCKS. I love playing competitive and during this quarantine I was hoping I could enter online tournaments. Sadly I can’t because ik I’m gonna be sinking in 20 dollars only for the game to explode.
I just want a compatibility meter. I want to be able to see if me and my opponent have connections that work for each other if not, I can have the choice not to accept the match. Instead I walk into a laggy match and me and opponent have to decide who's gonna lose GSP, and I also have to wait for my opponent to kick me off the level because if I SD too much I get suspended from online.
Smash online is disturbingly bad. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut Imma keep playing :(
I mean, if you want to play smash bros, you are locked into Smash Online.
You should probably just stick to play with friends I try to avoid as much quick play online as possible
@@marryrobert9590 I've been liking the online tourneys.
@@kickbeez642 great idea it's a lot better than QuickPay or Elite smash
Why does it feel like these discussions are being buried in the search results in most search engines
Hey did you know I got kicked out Elite Smash because I ran into a Ganondorf that had the stage flooded with items and assist.
Smash online is so bad that Nintendo should legit be getting sued for that instead of joycon drift. How the hell can you legally make people pay for your online services when they're this bad? It's not even worth $5 a year. PS+ was free 2 gens ago and that was better than this.
TBH, I would be really worried if they added rollback to Ultimate. I feel like they would add too much rollback to it, which can create instances where somebody can teleport across the screen. It would make laggy matches feel even worse, as you literally HAVE to play defensive in order to not get randomly killed.
Granted, if it is done well, it would be amazing, but the "done well" part is what I am worried about.
It's actually even worse than you describe. Not only does the game have terrible native input delay, it FORCES at least another 5 frames of delay in online play, no matter the connection. So while other delay-based fighting games like DBFZ or Tekken 7 will try to get the delay as low as possible whenever it can, Smash will ALWAYS have AT LEAST 5 frames of delay. Source: twitter.com/SB_Dax/status/1244270249349771264
Rollback needs to become the standard in not only fighting games, but also multiplayer games like Mario Maker. Delaying inputs is so much worse than the occasional (in 99% of cases, unnoticable) teleport. Imagine if any shooter or something like Mario Kart delayed your inputs online, that shit would immediately become unplayable.
You're arguing for rollback at the end which isn't possible for Nintendo, or at least would cost them more development time than an entire DLC pack (without knowing if it's even possible to pull off) with very little financial incentive. That said, melee netplay enforces a 6 frame buffer most of the time, and that's considered a good connection. For example, pound online for melee had people use a 6 frame buffer.
@@Calebanton It's definitely possible, whether it's financially beneficial for them is a different question. I doubt it is.
I have no idea how Melee netplay works. Is buffer the same as delay? If it's the same, then it should allow you to make the buffer/delay lower if the connection between both players allows for it. Forcing more delay than is necessary (which is what Ultimate does) is really bad. You should try to get the input delay as low as possible, or in rollback's case, choose a number you feel comfortable with that won't change during the match.
@@bert6236 I understand that. But even in ideal conditions without crappy hardware, the minimum buffer for melee is still generally agreed to 6. With a 4 frame buffer, all that has to happen is that just for an insanely brief moment, the ping has to spike about 60ms, and then you get slowdown. Even if a connection seems to be below that at the start of the match, chances are very high that it will spike and cause freezing during the match. You simply can't know if it would spike above 80ms at any point in the match without waiting before the match for the length of the match. Melee buffer won't ever go to 5 frames, only if you set it manually there. 5 is a good baseline
1# gain a fan base that isn't made of cancer
Aaaay shouts out to the Samurai Champloo Nujabes soundtracks
You can get disconnected from a game and it’ll have you banned from playing online for like a half hour .. WTF
I love how dragon ball fighterz has the same problem with battle arenas in smash yet people don’t complain about that but complain about smash ultimate, with not choosing ur characters while waiting in line and not being able to spectate while players are in mid game.
valy0f I beg to differ that Fighterz online is also really bad especially with online delay
10:43 Yoooo OMG CHECK OUT THAT INSANE READ!!!
The day I can play Smash Ultimate near lagless is the day Jesus rises from the dead and proclaims Sakurai as King of Planet Earth
What's also puzzling is, not only does the game coin flip to find who gets their rules, they do it after rematches as well. Meaning someone could get their rules multiple times in a row, instead of just rotating.
I like Ultimate. It took me over 200 hours to change my opinion of it from it being my least favorite Smash when I first started playing (mainly due to changing how defensive options work and having the worse input lag), but I slowly adjusted over time. But I could never take the online seriously due to the issues mentioned in the video. It’s absolutely atrocious and it genuinely bums me out that it is the way it is. For me Ultimate is great when I play just for fun but it’s the worst when it comes to online/competitive.
Thank you for this video! Thanks for your time and your work :)
All I want is Squad Strike online
Same here like that would make my life a lot easier because I was doing something very creative squad strike with my friend earlier today
Sometimes you actually get lucky and somehow win quick play battles, and sometimes it feels like trying to beat Mario 2: the lost levels’ C-3 while half asleep, literally impossible.
Nice video! Keep creating content! Your effort payed off!
One of my main issues with GSP is that the gain/loss is incredibly unbalanced. Between 1 million and 6 million, a win or loss changes your GSP by at least 400,000, and it's about a 20,000 change under 1 million or over 6 million. It seems to suggest "Either you're awful at the game, or great at the game. There's little room for in between." It makes practicing as a character you aren't great on, yet not awful on either, a bit annoying as you're jumping between destroying bad players and getting destroyed by good players.
Good video. This a Japanese developer thing lol... Like they do so many things right and just those few things... Not complete. Like wtf. (Not just for online stuff: like menus, interfaces, general quality of life, etc)
Two things...
Arenas need a change to allow multiple players from the same console, me and bro and others have had this complaint, can only do Quickplay doubles if we want to play online together, which has Team Attack off.
Need to add that finding doubles on Quickplay if you are alone, btw, via preferred rules is near impossible
Some if not all of the changes you talk about could make the online more toxic, and connections even worse. If you limit matchmaking to people who have the exact same rules matchmaking would either 4 to 5 times as long or you would be matched with people who's connections are significantly worse then what you experience now. Also getting the rules you want every time will result in players only playing stages that favor there character heavily, like samus or little mac only going fd and making the stage unplayable with the amount of camping that would happen. A lot of the changes you want are tied to the maturity level of the player base, and smash is one of the most toxic do anything to win playerbases in gaming.
Also rollback won't work for smash, gamestate is to variable and would result in people teleporting everywhere. In the clip you had shown of sf5's lagging rollback marth could either be dashdance out of reach or be jumping above you hitting a dair in the time it would take for the game to catch up. The game moves too fast for rollback, which is why fps games don't rollback because it just isn't plausible with all the movement in the game.
Inb4 melee netplay, they have to arrange matches over discord and if you lag you are banned from the discord.
At last, people like you should be doing these kind of videos... you seemed to have thought it out way more in the end...
12:12 Actually there is an excuse for smash seeing as there are tons of rulesets and most of them don't work with rollback (especially items) so they can't really add it, and if they do they'd have to go back to For Fun, and For Glory but people hated that.
Gotta love the samurai champloo soundtrack at the beginning
I was thinking about the online being like Splatoon where you can walk around different modes or something
i want to have a thing where it shows there bars of internet, there prefferd rules, and the amount of times they have been banned. Agree?
Stick Productions yea
I agree with this video but...
What about taunts?
Glad I watched this video before buying a Switch. I will still buy it though and just train offline. Really was hoping not to go through the same online crap that I went through with Brawl
It ain’t brawl bad especially if you decent internet
@@JaydenXV my internet is really good so hopefully I can get some decent playing. At the very least I'm assuming I won't have an issue with my brother who is 30min away from me
11:04 I actually disagree with you on that, because smash has tons of didn't ruleset combinations and most of them wouldn't work online with Roleback as it would be too complicated to implement.
I remember release date. Holy shit all I got was free for alls
dislikes are from samus mains
I think the idea you had for a training room in battle arenas is pretty good and I also agree that its annoying to get kicked out of line for switching characters. Although I personally like spectating since I enjoy watching others play. I have my own problem with battle arenas and its that you can't instantly get into spectating if you enter the line too slow. I feel that it should let you watch from the point the match is currently at, waiting in line while not being able to spectate feels boring to me. Also changing music or your stage kicks you out of the line and I dislike it as much as I dislike getting kicked out of the line for switching characters.
btw what is the fighting game in the background, Street Fighter IIV perhaps?
Street fighter 5
Get a LAN adapter, they said. It would make online better, they said. The only difference that made was make my matches more stable, but at least on wifi I could depend on the lag to be able to react. Clean connection with hella delay might be worse.
Forgot to mention the broken rematch function. If you choose to not rematch your opponent you will still probably get in the match with them due to their matchmaking system not excluding the players you don't want to play against
The people who upset me the most online are the ones who pick battlefield with Samus or snake, make it 2 minutes 2 stocks. Fucking scrubs
GSP is the worst decision ever. Promotes one and done matches with cheap and spammy victories.
There is no rematches or fun, its just who wins once or loses once leaves, you win guy leaves he doesn't wanna lose again, you lose he still backs out because you were adapting to the cheese.
Plus battle arena is good if you just wanna go two v two but if you wanna change opponent you have to exit and find another arena or if there are multiple people once you lose once youvwait 10 minutes...
It's very easy to say "delay is immediately bad" but Smash has lots of things to consider, much more than what people seem to understand about netcode. I've yet to see someone explain how rollback would be implemented in Smash without it having some tremendous shortcomings, especially because it's not always a 1v1 no-items match.
Wolf main since day 1. Idk why but I'm pretty good with various characters online but I'm terrible with wolf online. Every movement and spacing is off by a mile. Shit breaks my heart.
I HATE SMASH ONLINE, I DISCONNECT ONCE AND NOW I'M BANNED FOR LIKE TWO HOURS AND ONCE YOU ENTER A MATCH THERE IS NO WAY TO EXIT, SO IF YOU RUN INTO A PLAYER WHO JUST SPAMMING YOU OPTIONS ARE EITHER A. SUFFER AND LOSE GSP, OR B. QUIT AND BANNED FOR TWO HOURS. ALSO YOU CAN'T SEE WHO YOU'RE FIGHTING BEFORE STARTING THE MATCH.
Whenever I hear the name “Smash Ultimate Online” I hear: World of Zero Suits, Sonics and Peaches
I'd like to be able to strike specific options in quickplay so they NEVER show up. I want to tell the game I'd rather wait than play stamina mode.
I still don't understand why people play on Stamina on quickplay though. Just go play Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat.