Imagine in 20 years when some of the more modern weapons have become “forgotten”! we’ll all be lighting the comments up like yo this shit is fire I remember these!! Lol I always think about the older folk in the gun community watching these videos!
You are VERY privileged to have been able to shoot section 5 firearms here in the UK. At my club one guy is a section 5 dealer and he brings down select fire rifles etc to the club. But when he is shooting not only can we not have a go we can't even be on the same range as him. We can't even see him shoot.
srspower Yet they allow cadets to shoot section 5 firearms all the time (L98A2 cadet GP is 5.56 semi automatic and the L86A2 LSW is semi/fully automatic select fire). There is no reason that a person can't shoot someone else's section 5 firearm, they just can't legally own it without the licence. Sounds like your club are just being arseholes.
That is pretty much what the German army did for their Afghanistan deployment. They retro-fitted G3 rifles with scopes and some mods to make them DMR-like.
Yeah, but G3 were available, new stuff must be ordered and bought and that takes a long time. Of course there are better options than the G3, but they had to use something with a larger calibre.
What we (the UK) did was issue our previous Sniper Rifle (the 7.62 L96 / L118 - same Accuracy International family as our current ones, the Lapua Magnum L115) to the Designated Marksmen whilst the selection and production of the L129 was underway.
@@davitdavid7165 Not being able to hold sight picture between rounds isn't a good job. Probably why SOCOM cancelled their procurement order back in 2010.
It might interest you to know that for about 6 years most, if not all the British military L129A1's had the wrong optic. Some fool procured the TA648-50 with a .50 BMG bullet drop compensator reticles opposed to the TA648-308 model.
@@abritishguy7295 , correct; the pen pushers had no idea there were specific scopes for individual calibers of rifles. I dare say, most non-"skill at arms" trained military service members would likely make the same error...
I'm British and really appreciate these videos, learned so much about domestic firearms and firearm history in general - really love the mechanical aspect of it, especially on the old bolt actions and early machine guns =)
The heavy is more of a designation for it's caliber, rather than it's actual weight. It's chambered for 7.62 Nato. Whereas The Scar Light is chambered in 5.56 Nato.
I work at that range and can tell you thousands of rounds are in those butts. The fence is to stop empty cases flying up the bank and buggering up the mowers. Ian didn’t even hand out a t shirt which was a bit disappointing.
I absolutely loved this weapon system. Hands down the finest rifle i have had the privilege to use. We used both that and the Sniper support version on Herrick 17. The one weapon i would love to own in the future.
Bottom 2 are SLRs, upper 2 are FN FALs. Different safety, large knob on SLR, small on FN. Also rear sight is higher on the SLR but folds down when not in use. FN is fixed.
@Oliver Googlypops SLRs don't like the sand box at all according to my old uncle. Also,he wasn't the heaviest built squadie ever and the SLR bossed him around , tabbing and slotting...and that's without the ability to go full auto remember.
The British Army has such a patchy record over the years for adopting firearms. Some greats like the SMLE, Bren, SLR & FN MAG and some stinkers like the early SA80 (a relative of mine was involved in this decision I'm sad to say). Good to see us quickly identifying the need and finding the ideal weapon to fill it. This looks like a fine rifle.
Really our problems all date back to the US insisting on making the 7.62 NATO the standard rather than the superior .280 British which led to the EM-2 rifle being dropped so our small arms industry went a generation without making anything and simply lost their necessary skills. Which is a real shame because the EM-2 was a fantastic weapon and easily the best assault rifle around at the time.
I think using the SMLE for so long, (while a really adequate bolt action rifle for combat at the time, especially with doctrine and training that favoured it) really was a detriment to British military small arms, all the new talent at Enfield while designing the later stages of what would result in the SA80 weren't the generation who designed previous small arms, and didn't have the proper experience. Not to mention the adoption of the FAL was kind of stunted from the start when the US forced the rest of NATO into using 7.62x5mm instead of .280 British like many agreed was a fine round, with the promise that they'd also adopt the FAL, which they went back on anyway. Things might have been different if Britain's EM-2 had been adopted more widely before being dropped and development continued naturally along that route instead of being shelved and only the bullpup concept being tinkered with every decade for ages with more and more bad ergonomic choices added along the way. Add on top of that Enfield is pretty much being sold at that point so a low point for staff's pride in their work.
I bought an LMT MWS and I absolutely love it... I ended up selling my M1A that was all tricked out and don't miss it... even a little bit. BTW it was cool to see Ian on Gun Stories last night. Keep on rockin' in the free world.
I've had a hold of this weapon and looking down the scope is an absolute pleasure, Magnificently crisp reticle and the sight picture is amazing. I think it costs more than the weapon it sits on aswell, but when you use it you can see why. Great review Ian, its cool you featured the exact weapons tested aswell.
Thank you for all the work you put into these video's. It really is so refreshing to hear someone who's done their research and remains objective! Love your work!
Hey Ian, quick tip for precision shooting. When the gun is supported, like on a bipod, your firing hand is only there to pull the trigger. So don't wrap your strong hand thumb around the grip. Keep it inline with the rest of your strong hand, so for you your thumb will rest on the left side of the grip. This reduces the chance your firing hand will pull your shot off target.
Hey Ian ! I was an Operations Specialist ( radar operator ) in the US Navy from 1985 to 1995 . I was trained and qualified with the M14 Rifle as a member of the security forces on both of my ships and on shore duty as a military policeman . I was somewhat angry when the DOD took away the fleets M14s . The army and marines gave us a superb weapon that they thought was obsolete , only to take them away when they realized their blunder . I know I'll catch flack for saying it , but I don't care . 5.56mm is a poodle shooter , always was , always will be . The Marines that trained me at Ships Self Defense Force at Little Creek VA , and the Marine trainers at Security Yokosuka Japan all stated that the M14 was a superior weapon to the M16 . My dream rifle is an LRB Arms M14s receiver with a barrel chambered in .260 Remington mated to a Sage stock , firing 140 or 142 grain match bullets . What do you think ?
See here for a rough answer. www.full30.com/video/6618755f336970e55e6c50c1fe894ff8 Even if you love the cartridge, there are far simpler, more accurate, lighter, more reliable guns to fire it. An Ar10 variant does that job far better, as would something like an FNScar heavy, ACR, etc.
As a fellow Southpaw, I’d MUCH rather get my hands on one of those than the goddamn L85 I’m supposed to deal with. “Sir, I’m left-handed and left eye dominant.” “Not anymore, you’re not!” FFS...
You aint a proper leftie if you can't be the righties with your right hand. At least I always did. They also told me I couldn't fire my personal weapon (Stirling SMG) left handed. I showed them that you could. Of course it was a right handed range guy who said you can't. It helped to fire with both, so I could shoot around the left and right hand corner of buildings :)
@@oh_hi_mark8586 Generally, right handed people are right eye dominant and left handed people left handed dominant. However I shoot right handed with my right eye but I am left handed. People who cannot do this generally have an eye problem and would not pass military medicals. A friend of mine is left handed and still uses his left eye when right shouldering a weapon. He looks very odd.
@@modelrailwaynoob I get that. I was kinda refering to getting empty cases launched in your face. If you missed that joke then I'd be worried if you tried to specialise as a sniper
@@oh_hi_mark8586 it was a shit joke kid. Listen to soldiers and former soldiers who actually know and learn something. You don't get anything in your face if you do it properly.
Always a pleasure watching your uploads. Very interesting and you present it very well. Always learning about different and new things from you. Very pleased and happy with your material. From the UK... Good work..
Forgotten Weapons I know you're not that much of a shooter, but when you were shooting at the table I saw you were shooting right handed. Why didn't you go left the handed there at the moment? I'm sure that would have been better.
i really enjoyed the video. ever since i saw the L129 A1 i loved it and i especailly loved the 6x optic. im really happy you decided to make a video on it. thanks and i hope to see many more great videos to come! keep up the great work of keeping forgotten weapons alive.
Now to explain to our Colonial Cousins, BV is a Boiling Vessel. Tea Bags are a modern abomination where by the TEA (That is something you can drink other than Coffe , it is not poisinous. ) leafs are wedged between two bits of towel, so they don't spread out into the cup. We do not dump it into the local harbour by the way. It is not true that the British Army interupts it's battles at 4 pm every day for Afternoon Tea. Battles are fought in bettween the time it takes the kettle to boil and the TEA to brew, About 3 minutes is accepted as the correct interval. I hope this clears any Cultural Clashes. :-)
So? People will pay a fortune for Coffe beans that have been through the a Civet cat. Adds a whole new outlook to eat S*it and die. though WHY did someone want to try it in the first place?
LMT is truly my go to rifle. Their products are rock solid. Not for people whom are sensitive to weight ... these rifles are made to last Pick up a few of them and you’ll be happy:)
we need a device that is capable of launching a pommel over 300 meters using a counterweight. Either that or you shoot them with the rifle and than run up to them and smack them with your back up pommel
That first shot was a practice shot you’re all good.Another great video by the way.Doubt I would have learned anything about this very interesting piece of hardware without your channel. Thank you
According to the trials unit the LMT L129A1 performed better, they were procured under whats called a 'UOR' (Urgent Operational Requirement). With a UOR pricing is not the key consideration just getting the best performance to the soldier as soon as possible. A UOR is paid for out of the Treasury's emergency contingency fund not the Ministry of Defence Budget. There is a catch at the end of a conflict equipment procured under a UOR has to be disposed of/sold off to provide best value to the Tax Payer and dissuade the Military from using it as a sneaky way to increase their budget! If the military wants to keep a UOR procured weapons system they have to pay a quarter of its purchase value out of their own budget to the Treasury. That means most UOR procured equipment is not kept for the long term, the L129A1 is being kept but the MOD had to pay the Treasury for the pleasure.
It was mainly price. The HK417 was actually adopted by some units before the L129A1 was procured, most significantly by special forces and the SFSG, but it was also used by the Royal Marines for a period but was replaced once the L129A1 became standard.
No the L129A1 performed better than the HK417 that is the reason given by the Infantry Trials & Development unit at Warminster (ITDU). Whilst the LMT rifle was cheaper that was not the primary consideration as this was a UOR and the money was coming from the Treasury contingency fund. Performance especially in hot sandy conditions was the primary consideration not cost. By all accounts the former head of the ITDU is utterly sick of people making that assumption about cost. The L129A1 from LMT won out performance wise, if the HK417 had performed better it would have been selected!
Having been in the Australian Army in the 80's, as we lost our SLR and were issued a Austeyr, a minority of us were wtf there is a need for 7.62. And gulf war mark1, I heard the armies of the world realise 7.62 is far from dead, and see the Australian Army adopt a H&K same idea sniping and LMG. Pretty stupid. Defence get a new "concept" thats it black and white no grey. A LMG role in 7.62 is suddenly needed. Alas, sadly, we had tooling for SLR and could have just maintained 1 per squad no dramas no added cost
Definitely does seem the concept that while 5.56's lighter round means more ammo for achieving fire superiority, a lot of armies are revisiting the concept of longer effective range and more accurate shots to achieve the same suppression effect. Like us Brits used to have with the Lee Enfield rifle section's rate of fire. Russia seemed to pick up on the concept of the squad marksman much much earlier with their SVD and only now in the past couple of decades have we in the West caught on and taken it seriously.
I understand the concept of the assault rifle. The future is all going to be urban warfare so 5.56 out to a few hundred meters is fine. But when you take it into the desert those distances tend to stretch out a bit. Your idea of retaining a few FALs would have been a great solution until more modern 7.62s like the L129A1 or HK417 came along. Seems the more tools in the army's toolkit the better.
GunFun ZS I found it to be equal to if not less than a Tavor. At 300 yards I got get a round a second off on a 10 or 12 inch target. The rifle settled fast. Now, the reason is the PWS muzzle device. The SCARs the military use use a flash hider so that's probably why.
Nice video! Didn't realise you visited us here in the UK and also write for ARES. Since you "enjoy" our country roads so much I'd reccomend you head over to the MOD ranges in Brecon, Wales when you're over next. I always have great fun shooting up there!
This isn't direct impingement, but then again neither is the AR-15. Direct impingement is where a gas tube simply blows gas against the face of the bolt carrier, whereas in the AR system the gas in directed inside the bolt which itself acts as a piston. The problem is, I do not believe that there is a proper name for this system, so most people just incorrectly call it direct gas impingement even though it isn't.
I’ve read multiple comments about using old L1A1’s, G3’s, M14’s, or similar rifles. Having tested one of these I can say that the LMT 308 MWS is far superior to any of those. It’s more compact, modular so it’s mission scalable, and more accurate than any of those. One that I tested would shoot 1/2 to 3/4 M.O.A. groups with Fed 308M 168’s. That was with the 1/11.25 twist stainless barrel, and Leupold Mark 6 3X18 scope. I fired those groups with a Surefire Socom 762 RC suppressor on it. Also fired a .637 5 shot group at night with a PVS-22 UNS on it. My FNH SCAR 17S with a chrome lined 13 inch barrel, same scope and suppressor would shoot groups right around 1 MOA. Although it was lighter and slightly shorter. I’d take either of those newer designs over any of those old ones.
I know the Brits we worked with seemed to like them but they were also brand new in 09-10. The slow mo is also a great examole of how am ARs brass defector works.
Sounds as if you live in England! Carrying anything in public will eventually become a crime if the present trend continues.I' m just glad I can live under the radar and get through the day with no trouble or hassle. Wouldn't fancy being a car driver now though,God knows they get a load of persecution from all quarters.
@@dirkbruere How do I explain away the Mare's Leg strapped to my thigh? Always wanted one after seeing Woodie Strode packing one in the Bronson film,"Once Upon A Time In The West",but he didn't last very long.Couldn't beat a hand gun and harmonica.
Pretty much the same rifle was adopted by the NZ Army for the same use. LMT has also be chosen to supply AR-15 variants to replace the Steyr AUG as the main infantry rifle. Given that even the French are replacing their FAMAS with (pretty much) an AR-15 variant, were Bullpups just a 70's/80's aberration that have been proved a failed concept, or have they been rather hard done by?
Bullpups have upsides and downsides. They've been tried in certain roles and many have not found what they wanted in them (FAMAS, L85 probably eventually) and many have (Dragunov SVU, P90, DSR-1).
I know this guy who ordered his back in March of 2012.......and now with all the barrel changes..........that crap is off the hook versatile.........so they say.........he said he paid 2650 back then.
Hi all. Any info Ian on how it performs in the traditional rifleman role compared to standard British rifle. What I mean is in its squad role it surely has to be able to be used effectively in for instance, a room clearing role. Are their any tactical ramifications if it significantly underperforms in these kind of situations?
I would guess that the extra length and the scope magnification would make it much more impractical for these kind of operations in comparison to the L85.
Still works fine. Not ideal in a tight building, but it has a red dot for short range work, and still puts holes in things if you pull the trigger. No worse than a guy swinging around a FAL or M14.
Emperor_Xenolius true, one of the design missions of the L85 was supposed to be jumping out of the back of a Land Rover, kicking in a house door in West Belfast and clearing the house. Bulpups have their problems but the are generally good in tight spaces.
magic bit of kit. that's what I miss about being in the forces. I used the SLR in the back ground. hard hitting 7.62 round very accurate well over 600 metres just a blast to fire. I would love to fondle that new weapon.
sadcide You're so wrong. The HK417 was the original "We need an AR-10 but lets build are own." Which is still wrong, because it's a piston gun vs a DI gun.
The HK417 is less accurate that's why even the Bundewehr chose the civilian Version MR308 (semi auto instead of select fire) as basis for their new G28 DMR As for the G36 that's a combination of Problems, the biggest beeing the polymer Parts (if they get to warm) and the second beeing quality differences in the ammunition Both things that (in my amateur opinion) could probably be fixed by making the Gun a bit "bulkier" by using more Metal Parts and better Quality Controll for the Ammo Some special Units already use the HK416 i don't the a problem in just replacing the G36 with that It is already two Years since the they decided to replace the G36 because of it's "Problems", so i find it kinda strange that they still have no idea with what to replace it with the MR308 (G28) and HK416 (Both beeing HK Guns) in use Seems more like a political decision not a real problem with the Gun (or at least the Gun System by just using different Materials) itself I CAN'T imagine that the Germany Army never shot 90 Rounds or more through that Gun (that's when it supposedly gets inaccurate) to test it's accuracy when the Gun is hot, i'm not a fucking Weapons Expert and testing a hot Gun's accuracy seem really obvious for me
oh look! ANOTHER AR VARIANT..... this is definitely not a "forgotten weapon" but then again i would listen to Ian talk about rocks all day if he did a video on it so i guess this will do.
Xtorin O'hern quite right, he should just change the channel name to "interesting weapons" and be done with it. iv a good mind to contact the advertising standards agency to report a breach of their regulations.
He speaks like a homosexual nerd that frequently hangs out at openly gay English bars... fuckin gay little 3 musketeer looking bearded ponytail pulling gagelow
forgotten weapon there a request from a french fan : could you make a video on the french frf2 sniper rifle ? none of the several youtube sniper rifles videos refers to it
Okay I was willing to let it go for one video but I can't take it any longer. Is anyone else bothered by the fact the A.R.E.S. logo hoplite is holding a boar hunting spear? The head of which looks like the Cold Steel boar spear no less?
me, kinda. Mostly, I find the whole "spartan" fad and mythology to be tiresome. Just like the proliferation of Punisher skulls on everything, or zombie whatever.
Hi Ian, could you do me a favour? Reach over your right shoulder and flip the safety catches up on those SLRs , thanks. Curse my ex-UK Forces induced gun OCD ;-) ta mate.
In England the "sniper support dude" is called the "sniper support chap".
In Scottish units, he's called Jimmy
Or Scouse
Bloke
In Scotland he’s called the sniper support jock.
he is then promoted to sniper support lad
I'm not the only one who REALLY likes when Ian covers modern weapons alongside the collectible ones as well, right?
]p0
Nope
cannot double click like for really liking. unlike :( sad
Modern weapons are future collectibles. :)
Imagine in 20 years when some of the more modern weapons have become “forgotten”! we’ll all be lighting the comments up like yo this shit is fire I remember these!! Lol I always think about the older folk in the gun community watching these videos!
You are VERY privileged to have been able to shoot section 5 firearms here in the UK. At my club one guy is a section 5 dealer and he brings down select fire rifles etc to the club. But when he is shooting not only can we not have a go we can't even be on the same range as him. We can't even see him shoot.
Hey, i didn't know you were a fellow disciple of gun jesus!
It makes him sound like a mythical creature. The mysterious being that, according to legend possesses centerfire guns. Like a gun Jesus or something.
srspower Yet they allow cadets to shoot section 5 firearms all the time (L98A2 cadet GP is 5.56 semi automatic and the L86A2 LSW is semi/fully automatic select fire). There is no reason that a person can't shoot someone else's section 5 firearm, they just can't legally own it without the licence. Sounds like your club are just being arseholes.
PaddyInf Cadets do need to do a two day training course on the rifles however, they aren't just allowed to let rip...
They should ban movies with guns in them for the UK market. For the children.
The Germans also needed such a rifle, guess what... "Hans we have thousands of old G3 in stock!" - "Say no more..."
>tfw your civvie rifle is better than your high performance military rifle in trials
That is pretty much what the German army did for their Afghanistan deployment. They retro-fitted G3 rifles with scopes and some mods to make them DMR-like.
Yeah, but G3 were available, new stuff must be ordered and bought and that takes a long time. Of course there are better options than the G3, but they had to use something with a larger calibre.
More like hundred thousands.
What we (the UK) did was issue our previous Sniper Rifle (the 7.62 L96 / L118 - same Accuracy International family as our current ones, the Lapua Magnum L115) to the Designated Marksmen whilst the selection and production of the L129 was underway.
"One of the problems with the SCAR Heavy is that it was too light."
Man, I love this level of irony in the gun world
That's some pretty heavy irony
@@fademusic1980 Pun intended?
@@ChaplainPhantasm quite.
You did too good of a job! We dont like it!
@@davitdavid7165 Not being able to hold sight picture between rounds isn't a good job. Probably why SOCOM cancelled their procurement order back in 2010.
It might interest you to know that for about 6 years most, if not all the British military L129A1's had the wrong optic. Some fool procured the TA648-50 with a .50 BMG bullet drop compensator reticles opposed to the TA648-308 model.
we have 20,000 pen pushers, yet they cant even get the right scope for a rifle....
@@abritishguy7295 , correct; the pen pushers had no idea there were specific scopes for individual calibers of rifles. I dare say, most non-"skill at arms" trained military service members would likely make the same error...
@@mjmorgan2114 yep, the sad reality of the British army and it's government
@@abritishguy7295 I doubt they're any better in other countries.
@@ryanbrewis6990 but the UK has some of the most incompetent ones though
Great to see you in the UK hope you're having a good time.
It's not france so I'm sure he hates it
@@timturbo7727 no one likes France, its just a middle east ghetto. saw less terrorists in Afghanistan
@@SirZanZa And they have half the Muslim population of 3rd world Russia.
"that arms the sniper's support... Dude".
Love ya, Ian.
I'm British and really appreciate these videos, learned so much about domestic firearms and firearm history in general - really love the mechanical aspect of it, especially on the old bolt actions and early machine guns =)
Love seeing companies like LMT win modern contracts.
"Too light." Never knew such a problem could exist for a gun. Its also funny the H in the Scar H stands for "Heavy".
Try rechambering a .22lr rifle to .50BMG.
Heavy, as in "heavy caliber":7.62
The heavy is more of a designation for it's caliber, rather than it's actual weight. It's chambered for 7.62 Nato. Whereas The Scar Light is chambered in 5.56 Nato.
If you think about it, the weight of the gun counteracts the recoil kick.
I thought it meant heavy barrel.
The scar is more of a large (bigger than 556) assault rifle, surprised to hear it was even a contender.
SCAR Heavy is too light... the irony is palpable.
You can tell Ian is in England when he goes on the range because there are singing birds a wooden fence and the range looks hardly used!
I work at that range and can tell you thousands of rounds are in those butts. The fence is to stop empty cases flying up the bank and buggering up the mowers. Ian didn’t even hand out a t shirt which was a bit disappointing.
ThunderBuddy I’m afraid not its a military range
Well he isn't in the US that's for sure, after all you guys just kill students in collages....you all must be so proud.
Huh? Not many actually shootings in Collages, maybe a picture of one ...... I am guessing you didnt make it to college
A collage of dead students? Pretty grim art project, I'd say.
I have a hard time believing anyone has forgotten about a rifle this badass.
I absolutely loved this weapon system. Hands down the finest rifle i have had the privilege to use. We used both that and the Sniper support version on Herrick 17. The one weapon i would love to own in the future.
Look at those SLRs.
killzone isa Only the bottom one is a SLR, the rest are actual FALs.
killzone isa I carried an enfield build l1a2 heavier barreled l1 with 10 power scope cheek rest and modified pistol grip it was very accurate.
no they are all SLRs
Bottom 2 are SLRs, upper 2 are FN FALs.
Different safety, large knob on SLR, small on FN.
Also rear sight is higher on the SLR but folds down when not in use. FN is fixed.
@Oliver Googlypops SLRs don't like the sand box at all according to my old uncle. Also,he wasn't the heaviest built squadie ever and the SLR bossed him around , tabbing and slotting...and that's without the ability to go full auto remember.
Ian is in the UK?! Huge fan of your work, and thanks for featuring some great (and not so great) British firearms. Keep up the fantastic work :)
I can tell you from first hand use this is a fantastic weapon system.
It's a nice rifle, but a bit on the heavy side for me as a combat weapon or for long hikes
The British Army has such a patchy record over the years for adopting firearms. Some greats like the SMLE, Bren, SLR & FN MAG and some stinkers like the early SA80 (a relative of mine was involved in this decision I'm sad to say). Good to see us quickly identifying the need and finding the ideal weapon to fill it. This looks like a fine rifle.
This isn’t replacing the sa80 we’re not allowed in a sharpshooter using this and it’s a good weapon system but I would prefer the sa80a2 in my opinion
Can't wait to get to shoot the L85A3!!!
The sa80a2 is a good rifle and i cant waiy to try the sa80a3
Really our problems all date back to the US insisting on making the 7.62 NATO the standard rather than the superior .280 British which led to the EM-2 rifle being dropped so our small arms industry went a generation without making anything and simply lost their necessary skills. Which is a real shame because the EM-2 was a fantastic weapon and easily the best assault rifle around at the time.
I think using the SMLE for so long, (while a really adequate bolt action rifle for combat at the time, especially with doctrine and training that favoured it) really was a detriment to British military small arms, all the new talent at Enfield while designing the later stages of what would result in the SA80 weren't the generation who designed previous small arms, and didn't have the proper experience.
Not to mention the adoption of the FAL was kind of stunted from the start when the US forced the rest of NATO into using 7.62x5mm instead of .280 British like many agreed was a fine round, with the promise that they'd also adopt the FAL, which they went back on anyway. Things might have been different if Britain's EM-2 had been adopted more widely before being dropped and development continued naturally along that route instead of being shelved and only the bullpup concept being tinkered with every decade for ages with more and more bad ergonomic choices added along the way.
Add on top of that Enfield is pretty much being sold at that point so a low point for staff's pride in their work.
As an Englishman interested in this rifle and having been disappointed with what I could find out easily online - THANK YOU
I bought an LMT MWS and I absolutely love it... I ended up selling my M1A that was all tricked out and don't miss it... even a little bit.
BTW it was cool to see Ian on Gun Stories last night.
Keep on rockin' in the free world.
I've had a hold of this weapon and looking down the scope is an absolute pleasure, Magnificently crisp reticle and the sight picture is amazing. I think it costs more than the weapon it sits on aswell, but when you use it you can see why. Great review Ian, its cool you featured the exact weapons tested aswell.
"The problem they had with the Scar Heavy interestingly, it was too light." dunno why but that line killed me.
That took a little bit for me to process lmao
Thank you for all the work you put into these video's. It really is so refreshing to hear someone who's done their research and remains objective! Love your work!
oh boy ian's in the UK
get hyped for him sieging windsor castle to look at napoleon's hunting shotgun
I greatly enjoy how you've turned a bunch of obscure knowledge into something like a career.
this guy has the most awesome job ever
Hey Ian, quick tip for precision shooting. When the gun is supported, like on a bipod, your firing hand is only there to pull the trigger. So don't wrap your strong hand thumb around the grip. Keep it inline with the rest of your strong hand, so for you your thumb will rest on the left side of the grip. This reduces the chance your firing hand will pull your shot off target.
The birds haven't returned yet in Winnipeg, and I found the soundtrack behind the shooting component quite refreshing.
Hey Ian ! I was an Operations Specialist ( radar operator ) in the US Navy from 1985 to 1995 . I was trained and qualified with the M14 Rifle as a member of the security forces on both of my ships and on shore duty as a military policeman . I was somewhat angry when the DOD took away the fleets M14s . The army and marines gave us a superb weapon that they thought was obsolete , only to take them away when they realized their blunder . I know I'll catch flack for saying it , but I don't care . 5.56mm is a poodle shooter , always was , always will be . The Marines that trained me at Ships Self Defense Force at Little Creek VA , and the Marine trainers at Security Yokosuka Japan all stated that the M14 was a superior weapon to the M16 . My dream rifle is an LRB Arms M14s receiver with a barrel chambered in .260 Remington mated to a Sage stock , firing 140 or 142 grain match bullets . What do you think ?
See here for a rough answer. www.full30.com/video/6618755f336970e55e6c50c1fe894ff8
Even if you love the cartridge, there are far simpler, more accurate, lighter, more reliable guns to fire it. An Ar10 variant does that job far better, as would something like an FNScar heavy, ACR, etc.
some of the poodle shooter beliefs are dispelled here th-cam.com/video/wJBnxPd0Ubk/w-d-xo.html
As a fellow Southpaw, I’d MUCH rather get my hands on one of those than the goddamn L85 I’m supposed to deal with. “Sir, I’m left-handed and left eye dominant.” “Not anymore, you’re not!” FFS...
You aint a proper leftie if you can't be the righties with your right hand. At least I always did. They also told me I couldn't fire my personal weapon (Stirling SMG) left handed. I showed them that you could. Of course it was a right handed range guy who said you can't. It helped to fire with both, so I could shoot around the left and right hand corner of buildings :)
If you did fire it left handed you'd be left eye domin-. Left eyed.
@@oh_hi_mark8586 Generally, right handed people are right eye dominant and left handed people left handed dominant. However I shoot right handed with my right eye but I am left handed. People who cannot do this generally have an eye problem and would not pass military medicals. A friend of mine is left handed and still uses his left eye when right shouldering a weapon. He looks very odd.
@@modelrailwaynoob I get that. I was kinda refering to getting empty cases launched in your face.
If you missed that joke then I'd be worried if you tried to specialise as a sniper
@@oh_hi_mark8586 it was a shit joke kid. Listen to soldiers and former soldiers who actually know and learn something. You don't get anything in your face if you do it properly.
Always a pleasure watching your uploads. Very interesting and you present it very well. Always learning about different and new things from you. Very pleased and happy with your material.
From the UK... Good work..
Amazing that you have been able to access such a weapon and facility here in the UK.
Things are looking up
Hope you enjoy your visit
Did you earn a badge?
Not even close. :)
Forgotten Weapons I know you're not that much of a shooter, but when you were shooting at the table I saw you were shooting right handed. Why didn't you go left the handed there at the moment? I'm sure that would have been better.
What distance were you shooting from?
Shouldn't have shot your 'Soupaw', Ian. =]
Royal Marine then dude? Hats off to you
Hi Ian, Do you think NATO should standardize 7.62x51 magazines just like the 5.56x45 STANAG mags?
They should have done that since the G3 era
I think they should, the magazine is one of the corners of gun design, a bad mag can ruin a good gun.
it's cool you got to come over here, hope you had a good time.
Good to see the scar HEAVY lives up to its name
Well FAL translates to Light Automatic Rifle.
love whenever Ian references an expensive gun related to the one his talking about.... *pulls expensive rifles from under desk*
The second I saw the DI vents, I got really happy
i really enjoyed the video. ever since i saw the L129 A1 i loved it and i especailly loved the 6x optic. im really happy you decided to make a video on it. thanks and i hope to see many more great videos to come! keep up the great work of keeping forgotten weapons alive.
"The SCAR-H is too light"
Sounds like the military alright
Incredible that you got the chance to do that! Good on you and thank you to Shriven armory for allowing it to happen. :) I miss the UK
I love this rifle. I'll be training with it soon
This thing looks so cool. Nice to see UK army get to use some cool guns now and not just SA80 variations.
@@transamination The SA80 L85A2 is honestly extreamly good good right now, but yes I agree ;D
have you left yet?
@@mrpusser0348 yeah I’m out now
@@MrH1990s aren’t we all 😂
I studied at the DAUK, a fantastic place to study, lots of hisotry fantastic tutors and again a full armoury is always a bonus.
Has he ran out of actual forgotten weapons lol. Love this channel
Fantastic rifle, and a fantastic review. Love how you touched on the ACOG 6x38mm too.
I just have one important question; does it make tea?
No, but it does potentially make teabags out of bad guys.
You need a BV on a British military vehicle for that ;-)
Now to explain to our Colonial Cousins, BV is a Boiling Vessel. Tea Bags are a modern abomination where by the TEA (That is something you can drink other than Coffe , it is not poisinous. ) leafs are wedged between two bits of towel, so they don't spread out into the cup. We do not dump it into the local harbour by the way. It is not true that the British Army interupts it's battles at 4 pm every day for Afternoon Tea. Battles are fought in bettween the time it takes the kettle to boil and the TEA to brew, About 3 minutes is accepted as the correct interval. I hope this clears any Cultural Clashes. :-)
So? People will pay a fortune for Coffe beans that have been through the a Civet cat. Adds a whole new outlook to eat S*it and die. though WHY did someone want to try it in the first place?
+51WCDodge I think r h was joking, but that's an excellent response.
LMT is truly my go to rifle. Their products are rock solid. Not for people whom are sensitive to weight ... these rifles are made to last Pick up a few of them and you’ll be happy:)
The AR-10 is a great platform
Serviceable for a semi auto over a traditional bolt action sniper system
So cool to have you in the UK Ian. Hope you enjoy your stay.
But does it have a pommel you can throw?
word burst aaaayyy lmao
we need a device that is capable of launching a pommel over 300 meters using a counterweight. Either that or you shoot them with the rifle and than run up to them and smack them with your back up pommel
As a firearm, it lacks the feature. The bayonet however may do as for the honor the queen we must finish our enemies rightly !.
+ratbike rider i like where you are going with this
End him rightly!
That first shot was a practice shot you’re all good.Another great video by the way.Doubt I would have learned anything about this very interesting piece of hardware without your channel. Thank you
@Ian Was there a reason why they didn't go for the HK417?
Or was it just the usual HK pricing.
Just curious since i am german.
According to the trials unit the LMT L129A1 performed better, they were procured under whats called a 'UOR' (Urgent Operational Requirement). With a UOR pricing is not the key consideration just getting the best performance to the soldier as soon as possible. A UOR is paid for out of the Treasury's emergency contingency fund not the Ministry of Defence Budget.
There is a catch at the end of a conflict equipment procured under a UOR has to be disposed of/sold off to provide best value to the Tax Payer and dissuade the Military from using it as a sneaky way to increase their budget! If the military wants to keep a UOR procured weapons system they have to pay a quarter of its purchase value out of their own budget to the Treasury. That means most UOR procured equipment is not kept for the long term, the L129A1 is being kept but the MOD had to pay the Treasury for the pleasure.
thanks
It was mainly price. The HK417 was actually adopted by some units before the L129A1 was procured, most significantly by special forces and the SFSG, but it was also used by the Royal Marines for a period but was replaced once the L129A1 became standard.
The former head of the trials unit is thoroughly sick of people asking that question by all accounts!
No the L129A1 performed better than the HK417 that is the reason given by the Infantry Trials & Development unit at Warminster (ITDU). Whilst the LMT rifle was cheaper that was not the primary consideration as this was a UOR and the money was coming from the Treasury contingency fund. Performance especially in hot sandy conditions was the primary consideration not cost.
By all accounts the former head of the ITDU is utterly sick of people making that assumption about cost.
The L129A1 from LMT won out performance wise, if the HK417 had performed better it would have been selected!
I really enjoy your knowledge of British weapons, please continue!
Comparing one of these western DMR's to the Dragunov would be interesting I think
DesRoin well he’s in the right place I’m pretty sure they’d have one in the armoury to do the comparison.
Informative & entertaining as per usual Ian. From one left handed shooter to another thank you for your hard work & consistently solid content.
Having been in the Australian Army in the 80's, as we lost our SLR and were issued a Austeyr, a minority of us were wtf there is a need for 7.62. And gulf war mark1, I heard the armies of the world realise 7.62 is far from dead, and see the Australian Army adopt a H&K same idea sniping and LMG.
Pretty stupid. Defence get a new "concept" thats it black and white no grey. A LMG role in 7.62 is suddenly needed. Alas, sadly, we had tooling for SLR and could have just maintained 1 per squad no dramas no added cost
Definitely does seem the concept that while 5.56's lighter round means more ammo for achieving fire superiority, a lot of armies are revisiting the concept of longer effective range and more accurate shots to achieve the same suppression effect. Like us Brits used to have with the Lee Enfield rifle section's rate of fire.
Russia seemed to pick up on the concept of the squad marksman much much earlier with their SVD and only now in the past couple of decades have we in the West caught on and taken it seriously.
I understand the concept of the assault rifle. The future is all going to be urban warfare so 5.56 out to a few hundred meters is fine. But when you take it into the desert those distances tend to stretch out a bit. Your idea of retaining a few FALs would have been a great solution until more modern 7.62s like the L129A1 or HK417 came along. Seems the more tools in the army's toolkit the better.
I'm so jealous Ian that you get to fondle and shoot all these amazing pieces of history!
I am here today at the Defense academy in the UK, courtesy of Ares: The God Of War.
he's not a god, God created him
@@jbloun911 He's still a god.
@@linusdn2777 no he's not. He's below the one true God. Dumb fallen angel
I love the echo, makes youbsoumd more authoritative.
"the sniper's support dude" lol
LMT has made the L129a1 available to the public. They are a beast of a rifle.
Interesting, I feel the SCAR-H is one of the lightest recoiling 7.62 rifles i have shot
Pop
it isn't just total recoil, it's how disturbed is the sight picture, shot to shot.
GunFun ZS I found it to be equal to if not less than a Tavor. At 300 yards I got get a round a second off on a 10 or 12 inch target. The rifle settled fast. Now, the reason is the PWS muzzle device. The SCARs the military use use a flash hider so that's probably why.
Ever held a MG3? Super accurate, even from the shoulder. You can just fire it perfectly on target for the entire belt.
Looks like a really nice rifle, and a good kit for future operations.
depending where exactly in the UK gun jesus is, i want to take him for a beer
Nice video! Didn't realise you visited us here in the UK and also write for ARES. Since you "enjoy" our country roads so much I'd reccomend you head over to the MOD ranges in Brecon, Wales when you're over next. I always have great fun shooting up there!
Great video as always Ian, I really like the L129A1 rifle. Reminds of an M4/M16 platform, I mean that's basically what it is.
it isn't a m4/m16 platform
im calm, just pointing out the obvious
This isn't direct impingement, but then again neither is the AR-15. Direct impingement is where a gas tube simply blows gas against the face of the bolt carrier, whereas in the AR system the gas in directed inside the bolt which itself acts as a piston. The problem is, I do not believe that there is a proper name for this system, so most people just incorrectly call it direct gas impingement even though it isn't.
wait... you're not a weapon expert, but you know it all? interesting
Internal gas piston, as opposed to external gas piston, such as the HK416.
As always Ian , another great video !! Thanks , love what you do for us !! 👍
"A very nice piece of kit :D "
I love watching the history of the weapons and how they came to be
That original AR-10 on the wall, though...
That old AR10 in the upper right has me drooling.
Yeah, I'm not too familiar with guns so when I saw the thumbnail, I thought "Oh it's an ar15 with an Acog"
How bout that trigger reset eh? Nice
I’ve read multiple comments about using old L1A1’s, G3’s, M14’s, or similar rifles. Having tested one of these I can say that the LMT 308 MWS is far superior to any of those. It’s more compact, modular so it’s mission scalable, and more accurate than any of those. One that I tested would shoot 1/2 to 3/4 M.O.A. groups with Fed 308M 168’s. That was with the 1/11.25 twist stainless barrel, and Leupold Mark 6 3X18 scope. I fired those groups with a Surefire Socom 762 RC suppressor on it. Also fired a .637 5 shot group at night with a PVS-22 UNS on it. My FNH SCAR 17S with a chrome lined 13 inch barrel, same scope and suppressor would shoot groups right around 1 MOA. Although it was lighter and slightly shorter. I’d take either of those newer designs over any of those old ones.
You're in the UK? Any chance you'll be turning up in the Royal Armouries in Leeds?
I know the Brits we worked with seemed to like them but they were also brand new in 09-10. The slow mo is also a great examole of how am ARs brass defector works.
He was later jailed for wielding a spoon in public.
You got a license for that spoon?
What a ridiculous comment...... He only received a fine and cannot go back to that town anymore.
Sounds as if you live in England! Carrying anything in public will eventually become a crime if the present trend continues.I' m just glad I can live under the radar and get through the day with no trouble or hassle. Wouldn't fancy being a car driver now though,God knows they get a load of persecution from all quarters.
@@dirkbruere How do I explain away the Mare's Leg strapped to my thigh? Always wanted one after seeing Woodie Strode packing one in the Bronson film,"Once Upon A Time In The West",but he didn't last very long.Couldn't beat a hand gun and harmonica.
@@philipbailey9670 yeah, have ya'?
Finally an AR without a jam enhancer that isn't garbage.
Great to see England having great taste by having many parts made in the good old USA by the way Britain still thinks of us as family.
And the US military adopts a german gun XD
You're the black sheep of the family lol.
Certainly a fine piece of American ingenuity like this cannot be forgotten. The AR has served our allies well.
Pretty much the same rifle was adopted by the NZ Army for the same use. LMT has also be chosen to supply AR-15 variants to replace the Steyr AUG as the main infantry rifle.
Given that even the French are replacing their FAMAS with (pretty much) an AR-15 variant, were Bullpups just a 70's/80's aberration that have been proved a failed concept, or have they been rather hard done by?
Bullpups are good weapons. The FAMAS is just a terrible one and the AUG is just old, not bad
Bullpups have upsides and downsides. They've been tried in certain roles and many have not found what they wanted in them (FAMAS, L85 probably eventually) and many have (Dragunov SVU, P90, DSR-1).
@@mr_beezlebub3985 the Aug is good but the 1.5x (I think) optic I had on mine was absolutely useless!
It's always great to see how the gun performs in action.
Did you get your badge Ian?
Ha! No.
Aaaaaaw....Great video.
"A very nice piece of kit" indeed.
LMT makes super nice stuff.
I know this guy who ordered his back in March of 2012.......and now with all the barrel changes..........that crap is off the hook versatile.........so they say.........he said he paid 2650 back then.
When the SLR gets "replaced" but they essentially bring it back into service anyway
Brilliant rifle, very accurate and just really nice to handle, no complaints from me or anyone else I know who used it
Hi all. Any info Ian on how it performs in the traditional rifleman role compared to standard British rifle. What I mean is in its squad role it surely has to be able to be used effectively in for instance, a room clearing role. Are their any tactical ramifications if it significantly underperforms in these kind of situations?
I would guess that the extra length and the scope magnification would make it much more impractical for these kind of operations in comparison to the L85.
The rifle is too heavy for that role. The ammunition is FAR to heavy for that role.
Still works fine. Not ideal in a tight building, but it has a red dot for short range work, and still puts holes in things if you pull the trigger. No worse than a guy swinging around a FAL or M14.
Emperor_Xenolius true, one of the design missions of the L85 was supposed to be jumping out of the back of a Land Rover, kicking in a house door in West Belfast and clearing the house. Bulpups have their problems but the are generally good in tight spaces.
" No worse than a guy swinging around a FAL or M14." guess why they stopped using M14s and FALs lol
Really informative, clear and concise. The major tv networks could do worse than get you to present some weapons shows.
How was your group?
Not so great, but not because of any problem with the rifle.
Forgotten Weapons needs to have his elbow on the table
Or being a lefty, shoot lefty.
Why did you shoot it right handed?
ian takes slow motion film of the action when it fires but if you shoot it left handed you cover up the frame with your arm which spoils the look.
magic bit of kit. that's what I miss about being in the forces. I used the SLR in the back ground. hard hitting 7.62 round very accurate well over 600 metres just a blast to fire. I would love to fondle that new weapon.
"we need a hk417 but lets make our own"
sadcide You're so wrong. The HK417 was the original "We need an AR-10 but lets build are own."
Which is still wrong, because it's a piston gun vs a DI gun.
HK usually makes everything better, so i assumed they would like to copy the better gun.
sadcide Yet the H&K was the inferior rifle for what they needed..
HK has paid a lot of money for people to believe that
The HK417 is less accurate that's why even the Bundewehr chose the civilian Version MR308 (semi auto instead of select fire) as basis for their new G28 DMR
As for the G36 that's a combination of Problems, the biggest beeing the polymer Parts (if they get to warm) and the second beeing quality differences in the ammunition
Both things that (in my amateur opinion) could probably be fixed by making the Gun a bit "bulkier" by using more Metal Parts and better Quality Controll for the Ammo
Some special Units already use the HK416 i don't the a problem in just replacing the G36 with that
It is already two Years since the they decided to replace the G36 because of it's "Problems", so i find it kinda strange that they still have no idea with what to replace it with the MR308 (G28) and HK416 (Both beeing HK Guns) in use
Seems more like a political decision not a real problem with the Gun (or at least the Gun System by just using different Materials) itself
I CAN'T imagine that the Germany Army never shot 90 Rounds or more through that Gun (that's when it supposedly gets inaccurate) to test it's accuracy when the Gun is hot, i'm not a fucking Weapons Expert and testing a hot Gun's accuracy seem really obvious for me
Nice to see some SLRs with original wood furniture on the wall behind you.
oh look! ANOTHER AR VARIANT..... this is definitely not a "forgotten weapon" but then again i would listen to Ian talk about rocks all day if he did a video on it so i guess this will do.
Xtorin O'hern quite right, he should just change the channel name to "interesting weapons" and be done with it. iv a good mind to contact the advertising standards agency to report a breach of their regulations.
it was a joke bro
Rocks: the original forgotten weapon.
He speaks like a homosexual nerd that frequently hangs out at openly gay English bars... fuckin gay little 3 musketeer looking bearded ponytail pulling gagelow
It's been the standard weapon (L119) of 43 commando for over a yr now. www.sofmag.com/43-commando-switches-to-c8-carbine/
Nice to see a shell deflector that actually works.
forgotten weapon there a request from a french fan : could you make a video on the french frf2 sniper rifle ? none of the several youtube sniper rifles videos refers to it
I would love to; just have to find one. They are very hard to get outside of the French military.
ok and do you think you will able to get your hands on it someday ?
please try
He just did an interview with their creator last week on the topic.
Another excellent and very insightful video, keep em coming.
Okay I was willing to let it go for one video but I can't take it any longer. Is anyone else bothered by the fact the A.R.E.S. logo hoplite is holding a boar hunting spear? The head of which looks like the Cold Steel boar spear no less?
As far as I can tell, no - nobody else is bothered.
me, kinda. Mostly, I find the whole "spartan" fad and mythology to be tiresome. Just like the proliferation of Punisher skulls on everything, or zombie whatever.
loahnuh Ah, a spear nerd.
"Sniper Support Dude"= new name for Spotter
Hi Ian, could you do me a favour? Reach over your right shoulder and flip the safety catches up on those SLRs , thanks. Curse my ex-UK Forces induced gun OCD ;-) ta mate.
One of the best rifles in Squad.