People are asking whether this exploited length gives excitement and works for the 600m length requirement for harder guest generation. The answer is yes! Whatever length stat the stats window has is the one used for all that stuff.
For reference: 20,196 meters in 23 seconds means an average speed of 3,130 km/h or 1,945 miles/h. I think the intensity should be a little higher than 0.58 Low.
Possible idea for a new video: could we have an analysis of how the game decides when guests should enter the "want to go home" state -- the happiness, money, energy, being lost, etc. that contributes to it? And also if there's any way to get a guest to no longer want to go home, or if that is impossible to change?
I just recently started playing OpenRCT2, and sometimes some of my guests decide to go home pretty much right away. They haven't even spent any money yet. I'm curious why that happens and how to prevent it.
I'm almost certain the main way they "decide" is based on happiness. Otherwise, I think it's sort of random based on how many rides are in your park. Each ride raises the cap, and advertising removes the cap entirely. So once you're above the cap after 6 weeks of marketing, for example, the game likely rolls some randomizer to make some of the happy guests head home. Theoretically, you may have some guests in your park from beginning to the end of the scenario as long as they are happy and they haven't been randomly selected to leave based on your caps. Obviously Marcel could do a more interesting and deep dive, but I bet it works more or less exactly like that.
I think what I heard before is that the "want to go home" state is a random check that rolls against happiness. If the RNG generator rolls a higher number than the guests' current happiness, then the guest will want to go home. I think other factors also influence the outcome though, so I'm hardly knowledgeable on the topic.
I really wonder why Christmas Sawyer picked this method of measuring ride length, instead of giving each track piece a length value and adding that up.
That method can give problems when boomerang coasters only use half a track piece at the top of the hill. On smaller track pieces it won't make a large difference, but on larger ones like large half loops it can easily make a difference of 20 meters or more.
You could probably come up with a better method that counts how many times a car has crossed the ends of each track piece. A different number of crossings between the two ends of one track piece would indicate that piece was only partially traversed, as in the case of the boomerang style rides. In this case, it could compromise by counting only half the length of the piece, which would be an inaccuracy, but would still be more accurate than the current setup. This would require the game to track events about the pieces a car has crossed, though, and that kind of thing has a storage complexity that would scale with the number of pieces in the ride, which I figure would have been an unappealing prospect for the original game.
I feel like this discussion about ride length vs track length points out the real problem - Ride length is meant to be a *time value,* but the game measures it in meters, implying it's actually measuring track length when it's not. This is a case of indirect measurement leading to problems. Of course, this isn't an easy problem to solve. "Time on ride" would clearly vary based on the conditions of the track at that time - How many cars are out of the station or in it, what kind of traffic the ride is getting, etc. The length of the track is something that would not vary and could be accurately calculated, but it also doesn't make a ton of sense to base many calculations based on that - A human being in real life cares more about the time spent on the ride and how fast they're going, which are technically only indirect functions of the track length. The measurement would make a lot more sense if it measured minutes and not meters, basically. And the exploit wouldn't be as surprising, but it might have also lead to a very long ride length *decreasing* stats based on boredom of waiting in a car. Who knows? The game is the way it is now :p
i mean, it's not really a _bad_ method per se considering how dynamic track rides can be, it just ends up with this bit of a logic hole seemingly due to the order of operations being apply speed to car -> increment track length by speed -> check collision, or something similar. basic and functional and doesn't really cause any issue when collision means "crash, test is invalid" or the car can't move on its own accord, but when those stop being the case? then you get this sorta situation where the game is keeping track of movement _before_ it's actually been validated, so movement that ends up negated by collision still counts for the total amount
It don't think it would be entirely unreasonable to patch up this glitch in the next Open RCT2 update, just like the wizards did with the never-ending Hedge Maze.
You could even guess that the ride length is dependant on how your breath smells when you test it. That doesn't necessarily give a number that's more different than the correct answer, but it's definitely more wrong.
I'm curious what happens if you let the ride length overflow and time it just right for a 0 meter ride length. I don't imagine it'd be easy to do this without a TAS or external editor, but how would the game handle this state?
"See, my ride's not that short! It's twenty thousand kilometres long!" The mechanic who's been waiting to finish the test for 30 years now: "Can I pleeeeease go home soon? ;-;"
Hey Marcel! Funny enough, I've been thinking lately that it'd be cool if you could maybe make a ride review of the car ride. I make the ride in every park when possible, since I like the look it adds to the park (even though the throughput is... yeah, kinda bad). Would be cool to see an episode dedicated to this ride! Groetjes Daan
I don't know why but I love watching your videos about stupid little tricks in a game I loved 15 years ago. I started playing again because of you. Even just the green of the grass just has such a nustalgic effect on me. Thank you for all the vids you make. RCT is truly one of the best games ever made. I guess what I'm trying to say is thank you! and keep it up!
The main benefit of it's seen on roller coasters with single cars. If all cars have full loads, a full car can't catch up to an empty car and cause a stall or crash.
Under what circumstances do ride stats get calculated? Is it just the first train after construction? (Also, kinda curious just how extreme you can get the stats to be with this method.)
It's the first car/train/boat that departs the station after the stats have been reset. Stats can be reset by construction (except changing booster/brake speeds), changing the chain lift speed, changing the length of the trains, changing the operating mode, and changing the number of circuits.
@@MarcelVos If changing booster/brake speeds don't change a ride's stats, does that mean you could build a ride with boosters that's just shy of certain stat penalties (like excessive lateral Gs), then increase the booster speeds to increase throughput without incurring the stat penalties?
I think this is probably caused by collision checking moving the car forwards and then checking if it moved too close to another car. The minimal amount of moving the car back and forth adds up over time.
20,196 meters in 23 seconds is 878 m/s, or about 2.6 times the speed of sound (343 m/s). Assuming the last one also has a 23 second ride time (same # of cars, same track), it's schmooving at mach 4.
From the preview, I think I predicted that for some reason, this particular car ride design is game breaking. Given that it gives excitement and can benefit guest generation apparently, maybe I was right! lol
I generally don't like to have overgrown grass in my videos, but this happened by accident and I kept it since it's a nice way to show how long that car ride takes to complete.
I'm guessing this works because the stopped car isn't actually stopped, it's just continuously bumping into the car in front of it and being pushed back and the game doesn't take this backwards motion into account when calculating length
The game does take backwards motion into account, but instead of subtracting it it adds it. This is because boomerang coasters do half their ride length backwards and it would be really weird to have a length of 0 meters.
Question, could you mix this with the sync stations option? Like have a really long ride set your timer for the 2nd car to leave or does it have to work with the loading options?
@Marcel Vos could you make a video about weather and weight in RCT? Does rain make the coasters go faster? How much does passenger weight affect the ratings? Thanks for the great videos!
When using this method, why is the ride time sometimes only under a minute (e.g., 23 sec/6969 meters) and other times several hundred minutes (e.g., 495 min/31415 meters)?
I waited for a while, saved the game, checked the length by unchecking wait for full load, and if it was still below the length I wanted I loaded the saved game and waited for some more. I kept doing that in smaller and smaller increments until I reached the required length. I have 8 backup save files for the 31415m long car ride all at various stages of waiting.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[2/2] ประสบการณ์ขนหัวลุกจากตำนานวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T_kFecQw7Ds/mqdefault.jpg)
People are asking whether this exploited length gives excitement and works for the 600m length requirement for harder guest generation. The answer is yes! Whatever length stat the stats window has is the one used for all that stuff.
Excellent follow up answer to your video.
The long waiting time makes this impractical though
@@VocalMabiMaple For 600 meters you don't need to wait very long though, especially if the track itself is already something like 300m long.
That's cool!
It’s called an exploit for a reason lol.
For reference: 20,196 meters in 23 seconds means an average speed of 3,130 km/h or 1,945 miles/h. I think the intensity should be a little higher than 0.58 Low.
"I want to go on something more thrilling than Car Ride 1."
@@MasterCrash123 🤣
Actually it uses an alcubierre drive and simply folds space over
Should be pointed out the rider would experience this in 22.999901 seconds due to time dilation. Definitely why intensity is only 0.58 ;)
But also note that the ride time is also absurd, so the average speed is 1 km/h
Eventually:
"Marcel decompiles RCT2 and just starts explaining everything in assembly"
That is most definitely the route we are on 😂
I would love to watch this!
A MicroProse exec in 1998 demanded Chris Sawyer's next game have this "jiggle physics" thing he kept hearing about, and this is what we got.
Rct jiggle physics lmao
Possible idea for a new video: could we have an analysis of how the game decides when guests should enter the "want to go home" state -- the happiness, money, energy, being lost, etc. that contributes to it? And also if there's any way to get a guest to no longer want to go home, or if that is impossible to change?
Hundreds of entertainers plus a small park.
I just recently started playing OpenRCT2, and sometimes some of my guests decide to go home pretty much right away. They haven't even spent any money yet. I'm curious why that happens and how to prevent it.
I'm almost certain the main way they "decide" is based on happiness. Otherwise, I think it's sort of random based on how many rides are in your park.
Each ride raises the cap, and advertising removes the cap entirely. So once you're above the cap after 6 weeks of marketing, for example, the game likely rolls some randomizer to make some of the happy guests head home. Theoretically, you may have some guests in your park from beginning to the end of the scenario as long as they are happy and they haven't been randomly selected to leave based on your caps.
Obviously Marcel could do a more interesting and deep dive, but I bet it works more or less exactly like that.
I think what I heard before is that the "want to go home" state is a random check that rolls against happiness. If the RNG generator rolls a higher number than the guests' current happiness, then the guest will want to go home. I think other factors also influence the outcome though, so I'm hardly knowledgeable on the topic.
I really wonder why Christmas Sawyer picked this method of measuring ride length, instead of giving each track piece a length value and adding that up.
That method can give problems when boomerang coasters only use half a track piece at the top of the hill. On smaller track pieces it won't make a large difference, but on larger ones like large half loops it can easily make a difference of 20 meters or more.
@@MarcelVos you're right, it's ride length, not track length.
You could probably come up with a better method that counts how many times a car has crossed the ends of each track piece.
A different number of crossings between the two ends of one track piece would indicate that piece was only partially traversed, as in the case of the boomerang style rides. In this case, it could compromise by counting only half the length of the piece, which would be an inaccuracy, but would still be more accurate than the current setup.
This would require the game to track events about the pieces a car has crossed, though, and that kind of thing has a storage complexity that would scale with the number of pieces in the ride, which I figure would have been an unappealing prospect for the original game.
I feel like this discussion about ride length vs track length points out the real problem - Ride length is meant to be a *time value,* but the game measures it in meters, implying it's actually measuring track length when it's not. This is a case of indirect measurement leading to problems.
Of course, this isn't an easy problem to solve. "Time on ride" would clearly vary based on the conditions of the track at that time - How many cars are out of the station or in it, what kind of traffic the ride is getting, etc. The length of the track is something that would not vary and could be accurately calculated, but it also doesn't make a ton of sense to base many calculations based on that - A human being in real life cares more about the time spent on the ride and how fast they're going, which are technically only indirect functions of the track length.
The measurement would make a lot more sense if it measured minutes and not meters, basically. And the exploit wouldn't be as surprising, but it might have also lead to a very long ride length *decreasing* stats based on boredom of waiting in a car. Who knows? The game is the way it is now :p
i mean, it's not really a _bad_ method per se considering how dynamic track rides can be, it just ends up with this bit of a logic hole seemingly due to the order of operations being apply speed to car -> increment track length by speed -> check collision, or something similar. basic and functional and doesn't really cause any issue when collision means "crash, test is invalid" or the car can't move on its own accord, but when those stop being the case? then you get this sorta situation where the game is keeping track of movement _before_ it's actually been validated, so movement that ends up negated by collision still counts for the total amount
you: "you'd probably say a number between 30 - 80 meters or so"
me, an intellectual who has read the video title: 20 km
It's a great day when Marcel Vos uploads a Roller Coaster Tycoon video for sure.
But... He only uploads Roller Coaster Tycoon video's! XD
@@Frankie_Fish exactly
Would it be bad if he released a cities skyline video.
"length of 6,969 meters"
Nice.
Nice.
nice
Nice
Don't you guys mean _nice nice_
@@HasekuraIsuna Cccccc combo breaker!
It don't think it would be entirely unreasonable to patch up this glitch in the next Open RCT2 update, just like the wizards did with the never-ending Hedge Maze.
i definitely could be more wrong. I could guess that it's 10 meters, for instance. or a trillion.
You could even guess that the ride length is dependant on how your breath smells when you test it. That doesn't necessarily give a number that's more different than the correct answer, but it's definitely more wrong.
I'm curious what happens if you let the ride length overflow and time it just right for a 0 meter ride length. I don't imagine it'd be easy to do this without a TAS or external editor, but how would the game handle this state?
Marcel wrote under some comment that ride length can't overflow and will stay at 32 767 (I think) meters
5:39 Nice.
Nice.
nice
Nice
nice
Nice
Non-Euclidean Car Ride 1 was great!
"Mom we've been on this car ride for years!"
"Hush sweetie, we're gonna be on a Marcel Vos video, you'll understand when you're older"
That is, "You'll understand once we get out of this ride"
"Mom, I am 2000 years old already!"
Now it's waiting for the openRCT2 devs to patch it "just to troll Marcel Vos"
Must have been so hard to get the 31415 and 6969 ride lengths! Always enjoy your content, interesting as always
"See, my ride's not that short! It's twenty thousand kilometres long!"
The mechanic who's been waiting to finish the test for 30 years now: "Can I pleeeeease go home soon? ;-;"
Lol the casual 6969 meters without breaking stride got me
so nice that the sadness of the video being over is always reduced by the banger outro :D
Marcel : "Making a Ride that spans the length of the entire Equator is a simple task. Now you try. First, draw a circle."
5:39 ...very nice
Ah yes, exactly how I remember the Nürburgring Nordschleife. Great recreation!
Legend says Let's Game It Out hasn't uploaded a RCT2 video yet because he's been increasing his ride length for years
IT'S A GOOD DAY WHEN MARCEL UPLOADS
I finished watching. time for a post-marcel depression
Hey Marcel! Funny enough, I've been thinking lately that it'd be cool if you could maybe make a ride review of the car ride. I make the ride in every park when possible, since I like the look it adds to the park (even though the throughput is... yeah, kinda bad).
Would be cool to see an episode dedicated to this ride!
Groetjes Daan
"Any ride length you want."
>Shows a ride that is 1,337 meters long.
Ayyy Marcel with the oldschool gamer jokes.
I don't know why but I love watching your videos about stupid little tricks in a game I loved 15 years ago. I started playing again because of you. Even just the green of the grass just has such a nustalgic effect on me. Thank you for all the vids you make. RCT is truly one of the best games ever made.
I guess what I'm trying to say is thank you! and keep it up!
Imagine a theme park testing a new ride for 4.5 years so they can put "WORLD'S FIRST 20KM TRACK RIDE" in their advertising.
1:01 We’re going clockwise now?
3:39 Watch grass grow. Nice touch!
waaiitt.. could this be used to.. boost ride lengths over the limit needed for 'harder' guest generation?
I don't imagine the non-coaster rides that allow this will provide a high enough intensity for harder guest generation
@@teddy4271 1. it's actually excitement
2. alpine coaster exist in openrct2
0:42 5:49 man, pulling out the old memes
maybe a good idea to make a video explaining the benefits of waiting for a full load??
It increases your chances of successful pregnancy at least.
The main benefit of it's seen on roller coasters with single cars. If all cars have full loads, a full car can't catch up to an empty car and cause a stall or crash.
Wow that's certainly quite a trick to massively extend the ride length far beyond what it actually is!🤯😂👍👏
Under what circumstances do ride stats get calculated? Is it just the first train after construction?
(Also, kinda curious just how extreme you can get the stats to be with this method.)
It's the first car/train/boat that departs the station after the stats have been reset. Stats can be reset by construction (except changing booster/brake speeds), changing the chain lift speed, changing the length of the trains, changing the operating mode, and changing the number of circuits.
@@MarcelVos If changing booster/brake speeds don't change a ride's stats, does that mean you could build a ride with boosters that's just shy of certain stat penalties (like excessive lateral Gs), then increase the booster speeds to increase throughput without incurring the stat penalties?
@@IBeforeAExceptAfterK That indeed works.
@@MarcelVos Demonic! :)
I want to get off Mister Vos' Wild Traffic Stop
Never mind waiting in line to get on the ride, the new anger is waiting in line to get off the ride.
Oh, so the way RCT2 calculates ride length is with speed and time...
...makes for a flexible yet exploitable system...
For those that don't know, a block zone is a section of track which only one car may occupy.
I have never player this game, but for some reason I keep watching these videos whenever they come into my recommended.
Don't some rides of this type have a ride length stat requirement? This can cheese it for sure!
When your park can legally advertise that it has the ride with the longest track in the world, because a test run said so >:)
Didn’t realize rct2 took brownian motion into account, very impressive attention to detail
I finally understand how NASCAR works
Average Measurement Fan: 20 Kilometers
Average Measurement Enjoyer: 12.4 Miles
Top yelp review for the 6,969m ride: "nice"
I didn't know that the log flume could have such a short station with still a lot of boats. I've been wasting so much space!
Marcel, why are you videos the most fascinating thing on earth?? lol
Now I feel obligated to make one that's 69,420m long
6,969 meters. I see what you did there.
We all know what we'll be doing the next time we play rct2....thnx marcel
I think this is probably caused by collision checking moving the car forwards and then checking if it moved too close to another car. The minimal amount of moving the car back and forth adds up over time.
Fun fact: since the ride is only 23 seconds long, to do 20km, they're going at about 3000 km/hr, or roughly 9 times the speed of sound/mach 9
I really like your easter egg of putting the purple color on the 6969 ride. @5:40
At 4:17 I expected the train to go through the station and crash. The disappointment is immeasurable.
Funny that the length is based on the speed, and not the other way around.
Car Ride 1 builds speed for 4 hours to QPU to the ride length stat requirement
20,196 meters in 23 seconds is 878 m/s, or about 2.6 times the speed of sound (343 m/s).
Assuming the last one also has a 23 second ride time (same # of cars, same track), it's schmooving at mach 4.
Haha that one ride had a length of 6,969 meters, nice
I knew that it would be longer than normal because of this being in the Ghost Train Ride Overview (Design 1 had this)
Can you wait so long that you overflow the length variable and display?
No, the length counter stops at 32767 meters on all ride types. Unlike some other stats it cannot overflow.
@@MarcelVos wow i'd just have a ride that's 32Ki metres then. haha
@@MarcelVos damn that means we can't have a ride length of 42069 meters, rip
A ride length of 6969 meters?
Nice!
That is indeed the sexiest length.
3:41 It's taking so long that the grass is growing!
I'd pay good money for a car ride that lasts 45 minutes and most of that is being stuck in traffic at the station
The music gives me a Summoning Salt vibe.
From the preview, I think I predicted that for some reason, this particular car ride design is game breaking. Given that it gives excitement and can benefit guest generation apparently, maybe I was right! lol
Yes, it is.
3:23 weeds growth time lapse
I generally don't like to have overgrown grass in my videos, but this happened by accident and I kept it since it's a nice way to show how long that car ride takes to complete.
Mini Mr. Bones Wild Ride. #therideneverends
So optimized. Such a satisfying yet tense car ride. Is the second car going to hit the first car, aaaaaaahhhhhhhh.....no.
now use this to make a ride even longer and smaller than the 10x10 coaster that you made that is extremley long
Tinder date: So what's your length? Me: That all depends on whether I'm waiting for a full load. (eyebrows)
I'm guessing this works because the stopped car isn't actually stopped, it's just continuously bumping into the car in front of it and being pushed back
and the game doesn't take this backwards motion into account when calculating length
The game does take backwards motion into account, but instead of subtracting it it adds it. This is because boomerang coasters do half their ride length backwards and it would be really weird to have a length of 0 meters.
I love these videos they are always so interesting it just never fails
Daily work commute simulator
I live for these videos
3:36 you got me good there. rofl
5:41 i see youre a man of culture
Nice ride, and pi ride i guess
Question, could you mix this with the sync stations option? Like have a really long ride set your timer for the 2nd car to leave or does it have to work with the loading options?
20,196 meters in 23 seconds... so ~878 m/s or ~3,161 km/h.
So it's only mach ~2,55.
I somehow expected more.
20 km per 23 sec is 3130 km\h. That ride looks too intense for me =D
Average speed: 6 Km/H
Ride time: 23 seconds
Ride length: 20196 m
Math: Seems about right
"I want to get off Car Ride 2"
6969 meters
nice nice
@Marcel Vos could you make a video about weather and weight in RCT? Does rain make the coasters go faster? How much does passenger weight affect the ratings?
Thanks for the great videos!
He did one on passenger weight a good while back, pretty interesting stuff.
Can we take a moment to realize he's in game year 36?
5:45 69 69, you know what you were doing here, Marcel...
Pity the long length doesn't increase the ride stats.
I want to get off Marcel Vos wild ride.
i have a question if you could put a downhill section next to the waiting que (with out crashing) and make the drop down infinte?
One would think that the stat affected would be the ride time instead of ride length.
The ride time was a bit weird as it seemed to sometimes be affected and sometimes not.
Wish i knew this for dk’s long coaster contest
When using this method, why is the ride time sometimes only under a minute (e.g., 23 sec/6969 meters) and other times several hundred minutes (e.g., 495 min/31415 meters)?
I have no idea.
"I want to get off Car Ride 1" :(
Once the ride is fully open and operating, wouldn't the stat change the next time car 1 went all the way around?
What is the longest time a derailed train can stay "airborne"?
so you told us _one_ secret. but how did you get 6969 m and 10π km, exactly?
I waited for a while, saved the game, checked the length by unchecking wait for full load, and if it was still below the length I wanted I loaded the saved game and waited for some more. I kept doing that in smaller and smaller increments until I reached the required length. I have 8 backup save files for the 31415m long car ride all at various stages of waiting.
@@MarcelVos 8 backup saves, and not 9? That seems like a bit of a missed opportunity.
@@MarcelVos i thought you had some other mod up you sleeve, but damn. so much work. for a 2 second joke. thank you Marcel.
0:15 No, I'd say 20 km because I read the title...
Thank you.