Atheist Debates - Point by Point...Bad Conversations
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- Part of the Atheist Debates Patreon project: / atheistdebates
Everybody makes mistakes and sometimes mood and frustration can push strategy and good discussion right out the window. I'll take a look at a recent email exchange about slavery...and note what I did wrong.
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"Occasionally I like watching some videos on TH-cam that has nothing to do with religion"
Rly? Me too! We have so much in common, Matt.
Matt, good on you for pointing out issues with your own behavior within a conversation that we otherwise wouldn't have even known occurred. Self awareness and criticism is the foundation of improvement.
He isn't listening because he has just talked about it.
Steve, thanks for pointing this out. Self reflection and the ability to identify mistakes is essential to being a good person. I love it when people can say, "Here I goofed up, and here's how to avoid my mistake." Matt's willingness to be transparent about his thought process shows us all how to approach discussion.
Be kind and understanding. When you make a mistake, own up to it, learn and move on as an improved person.
Too many mistakes but not as big as the one he is representing - atheism... L O L ...
Tshaaj, I'm curious. Which of Matt's mistakes do you find the most upsetting? He listed many.
I don't care took much so I don't find it upsetting. I don't pay attention that much to individual's problem.
What an excellent video. I've found myself in disastrous conversations while discussing religion and what a relief it is to know I'm not alone. Just prior to this I watched the "Finding out you are wrong" video, and between the two I've found a bit of confidence in myself. I look back on conversations I've had and can see how they went off the rails. This introspection has a calming effect. It's ok to be wrong. To change your mind. Don't be so focused on what you're going to say next that you lose focus of the conversation itself. Take time to think. It's better to say "give me some time to think about what you just said" than to succumb to the pressure of feeling you have to provide a quick pithy response. Let knowledge be your fuel, not anger or ego. Thanks for sharing, Matt.
Thank you Matt! The way you show flaws in thinking, it helps me out so much in my everyday life. All of these videos are so entertaining thank you!
As a critical listener of divisive conversations online, this is one of my biggest pet peeves: the diluting of a conversation by overplaying one's hand allows the other person to sneak away without feeling the sting of the pointed question buried under a pillow of extra facts.
Your videos and discussions are valuable to me. I end up learning things about my self regardless of the topic you’re covering. Thank you for your content Matt.
About not using your arguments in bulk - I've noticed similiar thing with holocaust deniers flat earthers and other conspiracy theorists. They tend to present a few arguments, then when you debunk all of them they choose one rebuttal they percieve as being the weakest and try to question that one claim.
Yes. Arguing in poor faith.
Trying to win, rather than presenting the best case, and accepting the results.
Lawyers make perfect apologetics, they are paid to inject reasonable doubt regardless, even if their client may be guilty as sin. Right or wrong is not the goal.
Agreed. The emailer is really just presenting extremely strained alternative interpretations to get his god off the hook on a technicality. All of this misses the colossally important point, that this god permitted what can at best be argued as an ambiguous passage in his holy book, “justifying” centuries of slavery by every other reader who didn’t have access to the emailer’s sophisticated apologetic.
I appreciate your call to decency and respect in debates. Thank you for your humility and modesty.
Bravo Matt. I learned and hope to remember. You are an admirable person.
As my dad used to tell me.... "its not about having the right answers, its about having the right questions."
I love listening to this guy. Such a great intellect!
Matt, thank you for all your work and time put into your videos and debates! I'm an atheist and I've always considered slavery immoral but one Christian with his apologetics actually somehow changed my mind on the issue. You're work has helped me gain confidence and logical arguments that defend the idea that slavery is wrong. Thank you!
All I can say is you must have a big problem in the USA with fundamentalism. To me, they are just a set of nutters.
The Wild Monk No athiest's are sure we don't have any evidence for either what came before our current universe or how life started. If we don't know we have no right to claim that a being which we have no evidence for did it. If we don't know then all we can do is look at the universe we perceive and see if it will give us an answer and we need to accept that we may never have an answer. Religions just inject an answer for everything they don't know by saying "God did it" without accepting that is the same as saying "magic did it".
The Wild Monk I assume nothing...unlike people who believe a 2,000 year old book is accurate.
The Wild Monk science has proven itself time and time again to unlock the secrets of reality. Religion has proven to be garbage time and time again.
As for your 'something came from nothing' problem... Does God solve that? Sure, if he is supposedly eternal. I simply postulate there is an eternal universe outside of the observable universe. Who's answer is better? Well, one invents a being, the other supposes the universe is simply bigger than we can observe.
So, any snotty remarks to any of that?
Michael John
Science unlock the secrets of reality? Religion does better. Science is primitive.
_"Who's answer is better? "_
Religion's version is better than yours. "An eternal universe outside of our" doesn't give any meaning or purpose. What are we suppose to do with it?
Do you want to wait in hell to know what we're suppose to do something with it? That's a no-brainer.
Yes, they are a bunch of nutters. Unfortunately, these nutters have all the social and political influence. Try getting elected to anything as a declared non-theist. A Muslim has a better chance of election than an atheist does.
Wonderfully articulated... I hope to watch you Jeff Dee and all hosts and co hosts in years to come...Always great insight and great thoughts to ponder on. X
Great you are doing this, Matt! This is clear thinking..
People need their myths to make them feel as if they have purpose and they think it is their moral compass and its utterly ridiculous.
Thanks for this video, Matt. I think the person emailing you is my brother 😩 I can hardly stand to converse with him, because he is that guy. Really appreciate this video!
Christians often have to do mental gymnastics in regards to the Old Testament, not just the slavery stuff. It's hard to not to lose your cool with people who are willfully ignorant like this.
I get that it's useful to get them to put forward 'their best argument', just to keep the conversation focused. However what they think is their best argument may not actually be their best argument. After hearing your points, they may even agree that it's not their best argument. So, it doesn't really follow that if you defeat what someone currently believes to be their best argument, that you have defeated all their arguments (or that their other arguments will be less convincing).
Thank God I'm an atheist.
I'm a movie fan too and love watching in depth reviews. I highly recommend Renegade Cut on TH-cam. He delves into philosophy and religion within the videos. He recently reviewed two Kirk Cameron faith based movies along with few others. I highly suggest his channel.
I recommend God Awful Movies. Admittedly, it's a podcast, not a video. And I'm _not_ a movie fan (in general), so I guess the snark is what I'm really looking for, huh? :)
Thank you, I will check it out.
2nd for Renegade Cut
Was great to see you and sam harris in Phoenix!
Mario mario ahhh so they did end up pulling krauss off the panel?
T2revell yeah unfortunately they did
just listened yo sam harris give a response to the allegations... he seems quite certain that krauss is guilty. not on all accounts but definitely some.. very sad indeed
I appreciate that you own and learn from your missteps. Thank you for this video.
I received my bachelors degree in English, with honors and high distinction, from Indiana University. I am not a hick. In fact, the lawyer mentioned in this video probably has a similar undergraduate background. I am not a lawyer, however, and never had any desire to become one, as most laws are written with a high degree of ambiguity which allows those guilty of minors offenses to be punished more severely than those guilty of much more serious crimes. Generally speaking, the wealthier or more famous that a person is, the less likely they are to suffer any serious consequences as the result of illegal activities in which they engage. The lawyer with whom you communicated in not necessarily more intelligent than the "hicks" he refers to, just hopefully better able to communicate his thoughts.
As you've mentioned many times, Matt, the Bible is nothing more than an elaborate fairly tale fraught with ambiguities. Nothing it contains is defensible, not even the Ten Commandments, which are addressed by secular laws, lays originating from both religious and secular sources. Atheists are not Satanists, as the latter support religious beliefs which atheists lack. We are not evil people intent upon doing evil things. We go about our lives much the same as most religious people go about theirs, with the exception that we don't rely upon religious texts or beliefs to support our actions. We generally believe that all people, regardless of their sex or skin color, are our equals and should be treated as such.
I'm 63. I grew weary of attempting to engage in meaningful discussions about religion years ago, although I have indirectly influenced others to abandon religion. I guess you could say I helped them to "see the light." We atheists don't live our lives so as to reap the reward of eternal life. We live them to be able to care for ourselves, our loved ones, and others in general, and we hope that we will somehow have positive effects on others. We don't hate Christians, Jews or Muslims because of their beliefs. How odd it is that so many of them hate us for ours. We want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem, for the many challenges that confront humanity and all life on Earth.
Do you care about the afterlife?
No, as I don't believe that it exists.
We have proof it exists. After your physical death God will deny your entry to heaven and you will have no choice but drip to hell by yourself.
Listen to the doctor and professor:
/watch?v=tHcZc-JJEFw
/watch?v=8vj0qKthCgg
Where's my proof? Where's yours? As I said, I grew weary of such debates years ago. I have my beliefs. You have yours. Go away.
Another interesting video. Thank you.
Matt has brainy specs!
I luv him even more now
I can't believe that you don't have a selection on paragraphs that you can simply copy and paste for when you get the same questions over and over again.
Hell, I've done that once or twice. It gets old repeating yourself constantly to intellectually lazy people.
Yes, I used to have a handy PRATT list in SNotes with a few items, but it doesn't matter how clearly and politely you point their mistakes, they won't acknowledge it.
Erick Lopes Too True
Dan TheMan
Yes you are.
Here's the definition straight from a 20sec Google search.
indoctrination
ɪnˌdɒktrɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
"I would never subject children to religious indoctrination"
archaic
teaching; instruction.
" _methods that were approved for indoctrination in divinity_ "
Nope, You are>>Childish
www.dictionary.com/browse/education
We are tought to think for ourselfs, to find solutions to problems and how to find and evaluate available evidence. And to NEVER accept anything at face value. It’s the very opposite of indoctrination.
You however are tought to accept what your co-religionists and priest say on face value, to always (like what the children said in that old Kent Hovind video, Always go with god before any scientist. Look it up) ergo accept what you're told "Un-criticaly" and your tought that doubt and the act of questioning what you're told is a Sin.
So Yes you are the indoctrinated sheepies, just like the definition says.
Heck, you only believe the good book is the word of God because your Priests told you so, whom only believe it because their Priests told them, so on and so forth. You all accepted it at face value without question nor verification of its validity for 2000 years.
Homer Simpson said:
"What if were doing it wrong, what if everytime we go to church we piss of God more and more?"
Everything you believe you have demonstrably accepted on face value.
Isn't the person emailing doing a classical moving the goalpost?
Uhlbelk
Yup
Uhlbelk
how would you know as Matt only gave selected excerpts ... he censored the full thing .... hmmmm
MATT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE PEOPLE - from Eritrea
jhon samuel Wow Eritrea! That is rare :)
Please excuse me if this is rude, but I would love to know a little bit more about your country, if you would be willing to share. If not, that is fine too.
Have a lovely day! - I am from South Africa.
Why would it be rude to politely ask someone about their country? Let’s not let political correctness get in the way of genuine human interaction and curiosity
Jacques du Plessis - Its not rude at all....Eritrea is a small nation with only 5million people, located in north east africa(borderd by the red sea in the east,ethiopia,sudan,djubouti)...Eritrea was same country as Ethiopia in the old times..we are also same people called Habesha(while there are also small ethnic groups)..Eritrea and Ethiopias history is soo old..in fact scientists believe that the first homo sapien(called lucy 3.2million yrs ago) emerged in these lands..Ethiopia(if talking about the past also includs eritrea) was the first country to nationaly(all its people) accept christainity,when its king Ezana was counverted he ,made it a national religeon... ancient monasteries on the highlands of Eritrea are testimonies of our ancient Christian legacies....islam also have a deep history in these lands ,b/c the prophet mohamed took shelter here when the people of mecca tried to kill him for introducing a new theology, after taking shelter ,he took some ethiopians back with him,which on of the became the first ever person to do the Salat(muslim call to prayers)....in fact one of the most ancient if not the ancient l-Sahaba Mosque was built by the disciples of the Prophet Mohammed in 615 A.D...
. Our recent history represents the dark and centuries long clutches of colonialism and to their colossal impacts. Following successive colonial oppression, the gallant Eritrean people oppose the dominance and successive colonial oppression. It is a historic record, where Eritreans fought against giant forces for more than half a century, to define their self-determination. The struggle for independence is a testimony to the strong resistance of Eritreans against relentless and all kinds of fabricated aggression. The sacrifices and commitments of these fighters alongside the fearless people were historically unique and a big lesson to the giant oppressors..nowdays many eritrean people live abroad because of the current polotical system and mainly live in countrues like Ethiopia,uganda,sudan,Egypt europe and us..Eritreas history is very ancient and longe it would take a lot of time to explain..Eritrean history is as old as humanity!
jhon samuel
According to quantum physicists, virtual particles exist briefly as fleeting fluctuations in the fabric of spacetime, like bubbles in beer foam.
"The ‘bubbles’ in the quantum foam are quadrillions of times smaller than atomic nuclei and last for infinitesimal fractions of a second-or in ‘quantum-speak’, the size of a Planck Length for a Planck Time
------
I am showing you the proof that everything came from an unimaginable source (somehow) :
-----
Let two atoms are connected with each other anywhere in the spacetime , X and Y
-----
Planck Length of an atom X= A
Planck Length of an atom Y= B
---------------
--A is nothing without B
--B is nothing without A
--Both of them need each other for THEIR OWN EXISTENCE
-- A didn’t create B
-- B didn’t create A
-- A didn’t create itself
-- B didn’t create itself
------------
They both (and everything) came from an unimaginable source.
-and that creator/unimaginable sent all prophets (approx 124,000 from Prophet Adam to prophet Mohammad) who introduced him and told us about God/Allah, as well as they came to us with the complete and beautiful guidance of mankind from the creator of mankind.
Thank u :)
Paulie Three Balls - I started watching this guys video 2years ago..i admire what he have done through out his time..his tv show ,debate and his presentations.
Great analysis, thanks
These debates notes are gold. Is not my technique, but there are ideas that i can use. I employ a harsher method of discourse. Calm and calculated and never angry. But very snarky. The arguments are mostly repeats of things they heard but don't really comprehend. They are clinging to ancient superstition out of fear. In the immortal words of Rick Sanchez, " there is no god, summer. You need to rip that bandaid sooner then later. You'll thank me later."
The more times I debate with people, the less confidence that I have that anyone can be convinced of anything.
Thank you Matt, that was very good advice.
The "not responding when not in the proper mood" advice is perfect. It happens too often i even replied to Matt in a comment section before without even thinking because it was early in the morning and in a bad mood.
Hell spelling even suffers.
The word used in the original Hebrew is the correct word for 'slave', and is in fact the same word used to describe the position of the Israelites in Egypt. 'עבד' pronounced 'eved' .
Thanks Matt, nice Mea Culpa, no ones perfect. you usually knock it out of the park.
Yay! New vids! Thanks Matt!!
But, Matt, it was "Good Slavery".Same old tired apologetic ad nauseum.
You are a really decent person Matt. I need say no more than that.
thanks Matt
Matt is turning into a snarky old man... love it!
Matt, I totally love your wedding ring! (Off the subject, I know.) If you happen to see this post, could you tell me what it is made of? Thanks in advance.
Shit you upload two videos while I'm drunk sitting in a taco shop? Wtf, I'll watch them again.
This was really helpful with debating. Thanks.
And I have no idea who wrote you. I've always been a big fan of yours
I like that Matt tries to be honest in his introspection. Being objective about ones own thought process is difficult but I think he makes the best attempt he's capable of to not gloss over what he realizes are his mistakes. Matt might not always succeed in eliminating his biases in conversation but we are emotional beings so who really ever does when we are discussing things about which we are passionate?
'The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.'
H.P. Lovecraft
Ftaghn!
+Fluffykeith You okay?
Just saying hiya from a fellow Lovecraft fan, that's all
+Fluffykeith In that case, Ftaghn back to you too, friendly fluffy one!!
BIG FAN! greetings from a dutch dude living in Germany:)
and, the fact that there's a debate about what the book says and/or means, should be a good argument for it not being the word of a deity...if we expect deities to communicate well.
You should have also point out that 1 timothy is an agreed upon forgery. So what that says is kind of irrelevant.
Matt thank you for the information I never had! I would not be an atheist if it was not for you and the Atheist Experience! Thanks for opening my eyes! Till next video...
matt did not open your eyes liar. hew closed your eyes to truth. you just proved how dumb you are for falling for the lies coming from matt. all matt does is lie. you are to dumb to questioin matt. god is real. you went from truth to lies and fairy tales.
johnloves jesus your whole comment is one big lie.
I keep trying to beat my indentured servant in Jesus name but OSHA keeps interrupting.
Gish Gallop = Lengthy Argument Fallacy = Argumentum ad nauseam
very important to realize manstealer is a mistranslation or slave stealer. Thank goodness for Hebrew lexicons.
Regarding the Bible being written in Hebrew. I don't know how much that actually matters to the argument. Assuming the supernatural origin of the ideas in the Bible, there would be an understanding the Bible would be translated to many languages and the languages themselves would change over time.
Additional the would be some type biblical censorship in place. For example, if I desired to produce new bibles which specifically alter the term commandments to encourage the coveting of your neighbors wife and possessions, I would not be able.
So you should be able to use any Bible version in general release for the purpose of discrediting the Bible as a work of devine origin.
Matt, you are absolutely Brilliant! You on your way to be next Hitchens, one day your legacy might even surpass his.
Great advice. I sometimes fall into the same trap
The lengths that the religious will go to try and keep their myth alive is pathetic.. As far as morality is concerned, seeking the truth has far greater value than defending the mass atrocities represented throughout the myth book, the bible. Thank you for all that you do Matt.
They might not know what their best argument is because none of them know why they think what they do
This is what I usually run into. In order for them to formulate their best argument, they would have to consider your potential counter or lack of a counter. In my experience, many theists fail miserably at this, as they will generally attribute silly stereotypes to our stances, that may directly fly in the face of what we are actually trying to convey, then when we break from their script they accuse us of avoiding or refusing to address their "best" argument. Especially irritating is what Matt gets at here, where they automatically assume you have less knowledge of scripture, when you may in fact understand it better than they do, then they proceed with a scripture based argument (which is all they have, but if you corner any theist on scriptural fallacies or contradictions, their inner deist comes out to try to wiggle free)
King Bugs yeah for sure, I don’t understand why people have a need for God, Especially to defend it because there’s no real evidence I like listening to Matt been listening for years
Authentic Makeup
Same. Yeah, me too. Matt taught me a lot from watching his videos. And Atheist Experience.
Argumentum IHopeI'mRightum.
Baron von Quiply More like Argumentum HopeIcanfoolum
Chaos can't bring order. The DNA is a perfect example.
98% of species on earth is extinct which means if god existed then he has a 98% failure rate. That's like taking a test in school and scoring 2%. That's an F.
I wonder if Christians who use the "it wasn't _really_ slavery" apologetic, also consider the fact that things like kidnapping were illegal in antebellum america too as proof that there was no chattel slavery in u.s. history.
re 17:35
You just KNOW that Christopher Hitchens would have had this fellow (the one in an email debate with Matt) in tears and ready to give up christianity with 2 paragraphs of text! That's not any kind of slight against Matt at all. Rather it's a testament to the super-human intellect and machine-gun-power of the Hitch Slap!
You don't!
Ok, the definition and individual understanding of what slavery is, is irrelevant. I'd be asking this guy why he approves of slavery.
matt are you on twitter?
Always people talk about beating slaves. Yet no one seems to mention that a slave is highly unlikely to be able to visit family, ever again after thet are bought. They are at the beck and call of the master all of the time. They do not get to wear what they want , they can not eat what they want, nor voice any opinion at any time contrary to their master's. At any time they can be sold on, so any friendshios are tentative They have no control over their fertility, nor whon they can love. They cease to be people and become just machines.
Brilliant as always Matt.
no it is not. matt loves tro prove how stupid he has cosen tobe. youy agreeing with matt proves how sdumb down you are.
Apart from sanctioned slavery, slavery actually happened in the United States and god just sat back and let it happen
Who are 26 people who didnt like this I wonder ?- I watched this as some pretty sound advice on engaging with people, not necessarily with regards to religion actually, plus some introspection on the pitfalls of being dogmatic and trying to take on too many subjects at the same time, but what are they complaining about exactly ? come on you lot who thumbed it down - be specific so we can understand why?
Yay for CinemaSins!
I learn something most times I watch you, whether this series, Iron Chariot or AXP, & I thank you for that. Trying to balance your approach with "Street Epistemology" is something I'm working on, as I tend to get a bit snarky because its tough for me to believe that anyone actually believes these "fairy tales", but, as I said, I'm working on it!! I saw you in Phoenix w/ Sam Harris & time ran out before I could get in on the Q & A, so, any chance of you & he doing a video on Free Will? I have my own approach to the subject but realize its something I may still need more reading & thinking on. I feel this is an important subject to be clear on, especially if we do move towards a more rational way of looking at Morality!
I don't know if you see all these comments, but if you do catch this one please let me know if such a video w/ Sam is available or forthcoming! Thanks!
two points-
firstly, i had just watched a movie sins vid and then clicked on this one- so for matt to reference those videos is pretty weird.
secondly- have i not seen this before? for something just published it seems very very familiar.
am i going to have to phone the atheist experience and give this as proof of the supernatural?
Those email you received sound a lot like GMan, don't they?
Not at all, they sound far to intelligent far G-man to have typed.
Would it have been useful to point out the difference between the slavery described in Leviticus 25 versus that of Exodus 21? Those two chapters deal with different types of slavery, and it didn't sound as though that distinction was clearly made during the conversation.
Point on the curve.
Troubleshooter125 That's in the video that I previously posted and linked to him
TS125 does his best Emily Litella: OOHHHH! That's DIFFERENT! Never mind!
Do not go looking for morals in the theist, it is not found. It is not allowed.
There is something genuinely scary, to me, about a person who can't rationalize their own morality.
I believe that Theists use the cop-out "Morality is Objective." It ain't.
wrong balstrome1 it is you atheist that has no moral foundation. everything evil is a okay in your atheistic religion.all you atheist do is lie.,
Wrong fight boyo, we atheists are the ones with the moral foundation, we create it for ourselves, we are responsible for it, we enforce it and reward it ourselves. When we do wrong, we know that we are wrong, we also know why we are wrong and we try to assign the appropriate response for that wrong. Our moral system is more refined and developed that any religious one, and all religions borrow from our system, if they want to function in our world. Our rewards and punishments are more just than any religious ones, they are more immediate and more rational and fair. As well as being reasonable and easy to explain to convince others of their validity.
johnloves jesus
Morality is a product of human social behavior. There are explanations why all of us, even you, find some things good and some things evil.
Matt, you should get Richard Carrier & Bart Ehrman to debate.
My new policy, when engaging with apologists online, is to only address their weakest argument. That way I train them to focus on one argument at a time.
I can't speak to your experience, but that's not how I roll. I find some theists doing exactly what you describe, but it depends on the individual.
Well, why don't you try me. Ask me anything, and I will try to answer it well.
Hmm, that's pretty broad, and history isn't my strongest suit. So does that last statement somewhat refute your contention that atheists think they are the smartest people? If you want, I can try to find examples that would disprove your claim that atheists never accomplished anything of value.
11:37 God stole your glasses! I know because they were there and then they weren't! - typical caller on the show ;)
I thought Gish galloping was when you had The Smashing Pumpkins' first album delivered by pony express.
NOW the slavery in the Bible does not mean what it says? Why now? Why didn’t the slave traders, that brought my ancestors here think about it that way? I believe that, that’s the scriptures slave traders used to justify slavery 16th, 17th; 18th, 19th, + centuries
Jesus: I do not condone slavery!
Also Jesus: If you are a slave, well...............sucks to be you i guess.
You are a true genius and a gentleman. All due respect from me. Allow me to ask. Will you please write a new 10 commandments? Ask Aaron Ra for assistance. It doesn't have to be written in stone. But it would probably be close to perfection. A document humanity would most definitely benefit from. You, and yours have truly been a grand resorce for me. I can't thank you enough.
To the point that slaves, by virtue of being property, aren’t due the same rights as normal people, look at 1. Leviticus 27:28-29 (NASB)
“Nevertheless, anything which a man sets apart to the LORD out of all that he has, of man or animal or of the fields of his own property, shall not be sold or redeemed. Anything devoted to destruction is most holy to the LORD.
No one who may have been set apart among men shall be ransomed; he shall surely be put to death.”
So not only is the slave treated no better than and animal, he can be subject to sacrifice by “destruction” ie human sacrifice.
The Bible is evil.
Good analysis, and yeah that guy was as smug and condecending as it gets. Your solution is a good one as it shuts down his arrogant condecending talk and it saves you a lot of time and frustration =)
I am sooo sad, I wanted to see everyone at nonocon in Nash but I gotta work all that day.
Hey that's cool I am subbed to cinemasins too :)
Maaattttttt! Thank you to a great healer!
Penalty is letting them go and having to find a new one
That apologist should either accept what the bible says or should repudiate it. The approach of blatantly altering what is in the texts in attempt to make it sound more palatable is repellent and very dishonest. The bible contains more unabashed brutality, hate, and abhorrent god-commanded savagery than just about anything one could choose to read. I shudder to to think that so many people try to believe that the inhuman horrors contained therein actually happened to real flesh & blood, living humans in the past. Dreadfully heinous barbarity it is.
What on earth is the point of a private conversation with an apologist? They will never change. Discuss/debate publicly, and let your demolition of their points persuade one or two in the audience.
Correctrix That is literally what he's doing in this video. He's made the discussion public.
Kentucky is identical to the Middle East. I've been talkin against religion since I've been on Facebook and shit. Now I am dying in the religious people did it
I wonder what immoral act in the bible, Matt would discus, if he didn't use slavery?
I see some parallels between the multi tiered application of old testament law in the Bible (Torah) and Sharia law in Islam. For example, (and I'm not comparing slavery directly, only the heirarcy displayed in the system) the different rules for Hebrew vs non Hebrew slaves has similarities to Sharia's treatment of the dhimmi status vs true believers.
@16:20 "I work as a lawyer" is very odd phrasing. Why not just say "I am a lawyer?"
How do I get a hold of Matt? I really want his advice on something but I can't get through the busy lines on the call in show and I'm assuming he doesn't respond to TH-cam comments. In this video he's responding to an email, but I don't know his email address.. I'm desperate at this point, so if there's anyone reading this who is smart and has some time to spare, reply and I'll try to explain my dilemma.
Derek Moore ... he's already married buddy 😂
Hahaha, dang it! It was love at first sight what could I say? But in all seriousness, I wanted to ask him for advice on a situation I'm stuck in. I'm 35, married, 2 kids, atheist, no big issues with life, happy go lucky kind of dude. My biggest weakness is a lack of will power. I know I should exercise and eat healthier and cut back on the booze and cigarettes, but it's an enormous struggle. I'm a lazy guy who goes after impulsive simple pleasures more than the type of guy who takes the future seriously and tries to make the hard sacrifices in order to do the right thing.
Then one day I come across Sam Harris saying "free will is an illusion" Now up until that point I hadn't heard that case before. Sam Harris was a person who I felt I could trust, and although his statement didn't "feel right" to me, I wasn't about to assume I knew more than Sam. So I started thinking about my life in a different perspective. If I'm not the author of my thoughts or actions and am not responsible for them, and my life is already predetermined, then why bother stressing over anything? Might as well just sit back and watch the story of my life unfold. So it gave me an excuse to be even lazier and drink even more and smoke even more, and eat pizza everyday. Didn't matter since I can't help myself, I lack free will. Perhaps I'm supposed to be in shape one day but I can't choose to be in shape according to Sam. So it was the perfect philosophy for a lazy b@stard such as myself.
Fast forward to today and I'm in trouble. I've gained 60 lbs, my health and energy are at rock bottom, I smoke a pack and a half a day, I'm a total alcoholic and sometimes drink 18 beers a day, but always at least 6. This isn't working for me, my life is falling apart. I feel like free will must be real or something, or this wouldn't be happening to me. It seems obvious to me that I'm free to make choices and take on responsibilities, and that there are consequences to my choices that are real. But wouldn't that make Sam Harris wrong? I have a hard time believing that he could be wrong since he specializes in neuroscience and he's clearly way more intelligent than I am. Also, it seems all the other scientists agree with him, everywhere you go it seems the general consensus is that there is no free will.
I don't know what to believe anymore, but I don't want to be on the wrong side of science and believe in a falsehood simply because it's better for my health and my future. What should I do? Am I the only one in this predicament? If anyone can help me figure this out I would be very grateful, thanks.
Derek Moore ... I'm a personal trainer and fitness chef who kicks butt in the gym and the kitchen every day. Take it from me, you've got a choice.
You didn't just sit back and watch the story of your life unfold. You are an autonomous being.
You made the decision to light a cig every time you smoked, crack a beer every time you drank, and eat like food was going out of fashion.
Please don't misguide youself into the belief that you were not the one in control. You were and you are in control.
Sam's position amounts to nothing more than a mere technically. Something that would be useful in scientific research models, but not so practical in your life.
He wasn't advocating for people to give up on everything.
Why is your most pressing concern regarding your situation, that of conflicting beliefs? Shouldn't you be more worried about cancer, lung / heart disease, obesity and, generally, the toll your lifestyle is having on your health?
As I'd tell anybody: get off your butt, stop smoking, start moving, see a counsellor about your drinking, get a personal trainer, take control of your health and stop justifying your poor choices with neuroscientic premises.
That sounds like good advice. Truth be told I've already come to that conclusion because it did seem like the obvious truth. However, the reason I wanted to come to Matt is because even though I agree that the physical problems clearly supersede the conflicting beliefs at this point. I still don't like going through life not knowing what the truth is on this issue, especially since it seems so wrong by the evidence in my own life. Is there something about the statement that free will is an illusion that I'm just not getting? And so I wanted to ask Matt because he always seemed to be able to explain philosophical things in a way I could understand. And even though I agree with what you're saying and I am now convinced that free will is as legit as anything.. that still leaves me very confused because Sam and all these other TH-cam videos featuring scientists and intellectuals are all saying there is no free will. So I guess my question is "What is going on here? Can someone explain to me how free will can be real and not real at the same time?" I'm sure it's just some stupid thing that I'm not understanding, or are all those scientists really going around steering people in the wrong direction, if so, why? It doesn't make sense to me because I've always respected the scientists. And it sucks that I was duped by a person I admired like that and I'm just trying to make sense of all this.
Derek Moore ... Sorry, but it sounds like you duped yourself. You completely mistook the "illusion" premise. Instead of testing it out for yourself, using harmless parameters, you chose to jeopardise your health. 😐
For god so loved the world...
He played a 2000+ year game of hide and seek.
.i dont believe in kooks that say they have visions today.
I damn sure dont believe in visions 2000 yrs ago. After eating magic mushrooms.
No, Matt. You are too nice to this apologist.
We don't even have to argue about servitude in the Bible. The fact that Christians make excuses for beating another human being is enough for me to tell them "get lost, you inhumane bigots." Property or not is irrelevant. Inflicting pain on someone with any reason other than self defense is the most disgusting thing to do.
Those that sell slaves today often pretend to be or are theistic. Such people in selling any illegal trafficking know it is wrong , illegal, or immoral perhaps. I wouldn't know how they would personally. However with human trafficking or modern day slavery is big money sadly. All they have is those praying , those paying , and those religious organizations saying they help escaped slaves being mostly women it seems. Though if some one not theist asks for help will they get it from such organizations, or stay stuck in being a slave? Sad thing slavery still exists today. No argument really stops the ignorance or horribleness of it as far as I see.
th-cam.com/video/4YFpCiIam6M/w-d-xo.html
I'm a hick 😬