Oklahoma Freethought Convention 2011 (speech 1 of 5) - Dr. William Morgan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- (This is a re-upload of a 4-year-old clip that was removed from TH-cam over a copyright claim by Universal over a short video segment inside Dr. Morgan's presentation. The clip has been removed and the speech re-uploaded here.)
DR. WILLIAM MORGAN: To the Mountaintop and Down: A True Believer's Journey from Faith to Agnosticism
On July 30th, 2011, the Atheist Community of Tulsa held a one-day event at All Souls Unitarian Church (yes...a church). Speakers included Dr. William Morgan, biologist Abbie Smith, The Thinking Atheist, AronRa and Matt Dillahunty.
The first speaker, Bill Morgan, has an M.A. in Political Science and Ph.D in History from the University of Southern California. In 1965, Dr. Morgan was appointed to the founding faculty of Oral Roberts University and rose from Instructor to Professor of History in 1973. He was a true believer.
Now an agnostic and private businessman, Dr. Morgan speaks about his experiences at ORU and his journey out of superstition into reason.
"The Bible's Hidden Secrets" video.pbs.org/video/1051895565/
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This is great, I had not realized his speeches were available.
Thanks Seth.
+God Was Bored. Watch Christopher HItchens and Richard Dawkins vids.
What a marvelous speaker!
watch the whole thing lol now I must go to bed gotta wake up early I was only planning to watch a few minutes I'm sure we have all been there =D
there's something wrong with the laws when a massive company like universal can get a long video removed because of a tiny segment inside it.
ElectroPagan
that's as may be, but unless you want them kicking in your door or whatever, isn't it more useful to lobby to get the law changed?
it may be futile, but sometimes it's not. by contrast, I can't see any good coming from stripping it back to the bare bones quite as far as you do.
ElectroPagan
_"... i.e. begging our masters for permission to do something..."_
are you suggesting that elections are fixed-as in behind the scenes, not just because the extremely wealthy can donate unreasonable amounts of money-or that politicians don't have any real power?
_"You really don't see voluntaryism... as infinitely superior to..."_
that's not what I said. but if you're talking about entirely removing coercion, who's going to enforce that? how will they do that?
it's easy to be a pacifist, as long as you're never attacked.
_"... being locked in a rape room..."_
assuming you mean prison, here, why not just *_say_* that? hyperbole makes you sound like a fanatic, makes it hard to understand you, and makes it sound like you're trying to persuade with shock rather than facts.
I'd appreciate it if you could dial it back a bit.
ElectroPagan
_"... government is a dangerous extortion racket..."_
that's as may be, but good luck living a productive life without it.
_"And you essentially _*_did_*_ say..."_
no, I said something vague, which you are interpreting that way.
_"And, aside form you, who said anything about pacifism?"_
from google:
*analogy*
/əˈnalədʒi/
noun
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
"an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"
look, I'm done. if you're not listening, there's not a lot of point in talking to you. you're hurting your own cause-whatever that may be, because I'm _still_ not sure about that. as long as you ignore reality-that voluntaryism is a utopian impossibility-you're going to miss areas where we *_could_*_ actually_ get _closer_ to that ideal.
+ElectroPagan Government is not a separate thing. Government is you. Government is me. The violence you decry? It's your violence. Rather than us all running around beating the crap out of people who believe differently or have things we want, we have society. That's where we all agree not to steal, kill, hurt or rape each other. We come up with laws, falling into two categories. .. abstaining from actions or accepting a duty to perform an action. This entire construct is based on the violence potential of the individuals that make it up.
If someone breaks the law... The answer is to express violence. However, rather than everyone just embracing that and going on a lynching... We nominate violence agents. Soldiers, police etc. Those permitted to use otherwise prohibited violence to stop the breaking of the social contract.
This is the base upon which all social constructs are formed. Wolf packs, families, human tribes, nations, churches. Everything. Our modern western world attempts to fill the space between breaking the law and violence with lots of other safety gaps. Arbitration, fines, sanctions etc. Rights of appeal and tons of other fluff. However, as a law breaker, if you are determined to take this to violence without relenting? Then our violence will be tested against yours... and if we are millions and you are one.... We win.
This is why society works.
This is how society works.
Government is how we regulate our society. It can be anything, a minimalistic arbiter of disagreements, an overwhelming edifice of bureaucracy, a corrupt oligarchy... whatever. However never forget it is you and me. WE are the society, WE are the government and to pretend that we are not is a lie.
Now sometimes... I will not agree with you, and the rest of us. Sometimes it will be you who disagrees or someone else. We may, as a group, attempt to accommodate that person. We in the west like to cling to ideas of freedom, so in most cases we begin with the default position of permission. If I invent a new concoction, I'm free to produce it, you to drink it and enjoy its effects. I'm fine so long as it doesn't kill you. However, if the folk we put in place to decide on stuff decide that the concoction is illegal... then it is.
We can argue, we can petition for the law or the law makers to be changed, but the mechanism needs to be used to effect change because we design the mechanism to wield force against law breakers.
If the government isn't to your liking, change it. But never pretend that you are not a part of it.
People giving Dr. Morgan shit because of the Horus thing... it may have been a mistake but the rest of his speech was brilliant, I loved listening to him and I think he's quite awesome.
I used to listen to this to go to sleep in my college years when it first came out I love these
thanks seth!
i have missed this.
this is a pwerful speech. with living facts shared.
thank you to the army quarter-master general! that needs to be shared everywhere.
Awesome, I was looking for this!
Isn't there something in the Fair Use Act where you can use small clips of something in a satirical or education form?
He really should not have brought up that Horus nonsense at the end. I ONLY hear that version of the Horus story from atheists trying to draw parallels with Jesus. When I read the actual Egyptian myths and legends, the story is very different. Horus father, Osiris, was murdered and cut in pieces by Typhoon (aka Set). Set spread the pieces all over Egypt. Horus's mom, Isis, traveled throughout all of Egypt and found all the pieces except the penis, which had been eaten by a fish. She than put the body back together, made an artificial penis for it and engaged in furry necrophilia with her dead husband while in the form of a bird. THAT was Horus's conception. Hardly what I would call virginal. He didn't travel about preaching, didn't have 12 disciples and didn't heal the sick. Instead, he engaged in a series of convoluted and magical battles with Set that involved a lot of sexual trickery, transformations into various animals and a comical farce of a divine court trial. He was never slain and so never rose after 3 days from a tomb. Get your Egyptian Myths from Egyptologists, not from the Zeitgeist movie!
Alyenbird Cool story
Thanks. It gets even better. Look up "The Contendings of Horus and Set" for the whole thing. Note: Due to the difficulties of translating a several-thousand-years-dead language, every version you read will be a bit different, especially in the small details. I recommend reading the same story through several different sources.
he just used the "re-tread" example
Legend!
Should have much more views.
UK here, nowhere as near religious as the USA but still poison.....
this was freaking awesome
Thank You Seth ...
I need to find more of Dr. William Morgan ... This guy is fucking funny ...
is there a version of the bible exposed with all the historical errors/inconsistencies corrected? damn apologists just keep pointing them out
Unfortunately the end piece on Horus is not actually true at all, there is no Primary source that proves this to be the case. Historians with PHD's do not have any evidence of this. As discussed by our very own Atheist Historian, Richard Carrier here - th-cam.com/video/m0tdxc4jX2s/w-d-xo.html
So, I went to look up the thing about having to leave the camp to poop in my bible (because I like to highlight anything I find really stupid or ridiculous), and I happened across Deut 23:10. Basically, if a man in a warzone pisses the bed or jizzes in his pants overnight, he has to leave camp all day, without washing until sunset, and then he's allowed back. I couldn't stop laughing at this for five minutes after I figured that out. This is so childish.
Noooooooo. He quoted Zeitgeist! Ahhhhh!
Roan7995 I know right!? NOT EVEN A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH RIGHT!? just saw something and shit it out on everyone there....now I MUST presume every word out of his mouth could have been the same method...I now KNOW that I shouldn't take this guy as someone to cares about truth or at least cares about giving truth untill i verify each thing he said in this vid.....fuck...waste....of time...wish they showed the clip at the start of the vid....save me alot of time...
Roan7995 Oh god. I'm not watching this presentation then if that's potentially the level of research that went into this
ThePharphis and guess what...it is literally...the last clip shown....after all that time.
+Roan7995 ;_; Yeah, I just got to it. D'ooohhh. I mean, I mostly agree with the speech, but his standards are not very high.
Roan7995 Got the same feeling here. Ending the talk with a clip from such unreliable source kind of cuts his credibility, doesn't it?
Bill so very sad for you!
"An agnostic."
There was no such thing as Dec. 25 in 3000 BC, because no roman calender existed. Isis was no virgin and Horus was fathered by a resurrected Osiris with a golden penis. The rest is also made up. Of course there are parallels in all ancient myths, but a perfect match over a time span of 3000 years would be miraculous and would even suggest that it has something to do with reality (which it doesn't).
+Etothe2iPi Just say--it's all SHITE !
lorell1218