Guru Drums - Oh no, not another new bearing edge!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2015
- An introduction to the tympanic bearing edge principal from Guru Drums.
Please note: The example shown here is tuned for maximum head sustain - greatly assisted by the new edges. Different tunings (at the same pitch) can offer much shorter note length according to the desired result. Equally, how, where, & on what drum this edge is used, will substantially change the overall result. Here at Guru Drums, we'll only be using this edge in certain applications & on specific constructions as appropriate.
Video showing machining steps • Tympanic bearing edge ... - เพลง
That's a singing tom, that sustain is beautiful.
I got a little teary when you said you'd not patent it, the honesty and integrity along is worth every penny of the price tag. I think I know what my next big purchase is going to be...
Got to love a guy who defines drum technology using a cardboard box.... Excellent!
....... Engineering wise the sound of that revised bearing edge VS the round over without the slight indentation prior to the head laying upon the bearing edge creates a situation where there is far less material of the head contacting the shell at that point, allowing for greater sustain. The full rounded bearing edge will cause the drum head to choke, because there is too much head material touching the drum shell (which makes no sound at all). The slight divot in the design means the drum head does not contact the shell (is not dampened) for the distance between the end of the rounded edge and the bearing edge. Quite basically you have two bearing edges, the one crated by the roundover which would sound quite dead if left alone. And the one created by cutting an additional angle just behind the bearing edge.
I absolutely LOVE that you aren't filing a patent. Open source for the win.
Me too, since my company Seesar Drums, that makes hand percussion influenced by Lovecraftian Weird fiction, uses either a Guru-Timpani edge as described in this video, or a hybrid between the Guru-Timpani edge and a traditional edge typically used within the culture from which the general design of the drum originated. I owe tons to Guru Drums for allowing me to utilize their edge in my work and (not to sound like I'm tooting my own horn) it really makes my drums sound awesome, unique, and professional! Cheers indeed to the fine folks at Guru Drums for this excellent construction method and sharing it!
@@seesarofficial3525 Thank you - you have no idea how much it pleases me to know others are gaining some benefit from this concept :)
6 years later…Guru closes shop😕
So generous of you to share your discovery with the drumming community. Good things will come your way I'm sure. God bless you
Wow. I'd buy your drums just because of this single video. Awesome. :-)
I was impressed with the length of the note on that 10” tom!
WOW, that was soo resonant! Props on keeping it open source
Andy, it's like the Top Gear of drum manufacturing here. Good stuff.
Bravo! I applaud your allowing your new bearing edge to remain in the public domain! When too many parents get applied to any given item or technology said technology does not advance. I came up with a one piece lug box design back in 1982 and set about making sure it would also stay public domain.
I LOVE IT !! Just WOW!! Thanks so much for the finding and for sheering it with the drum world. I definitely use it somehow.
so generous! thank u guru!
Very generous of you guys, and you do make marvelous drums. I’ve been contemplating building some of my own personal drums for me. Thanks for sharing this.
The little bump on the edge actually reminds me of a guitar bridge.It gives the head a break angle similar to that of a guitar string. If the break angle is too shallow then string (and head)sustain will be lost. I think you have the same basic concept here and that could be why it works better with a raised bump(like a saddle on a guitar). I like all the contact on the round part,too. It’s like a wrap around stop bar on a tune-o-matic guitar bridge,also.(Les Paul type). In fact the two pats of the bearing edge correspond perfectly with the two parts of a tune o matic bridge! Makes perfect sense! VERY cool!
Yes, I agree precisely!
Thanks for all the love you Sir are givin to drums, greetings from México.
God bless you guys!
Thanks for sharing your findings and experience. If i use sometime , I promise reference it to you
Fantastic edge! And thank you for keeping it public. Here's to the "Guru Edge" becoming a world wide smash!
Cool concept! and a BIG heart! The world of drumming need more Andy(s)!
I'll spread the word of the new Guru bearing edge! Thank you!
Sounds really good
The Guru edge, has a nice vibration and ring to it...why yes, yes it does.
excelent work!
MASTER!!
Wow. Just... wow.
And thank you!
such a wonderful 10" tom!!
GENIO , MAESTRO !
You're a good guy mr.
This is very similar to the bearing edge shapes used on traditional west African drums.
very interesting , thanks
Very cool
Cool that your new bearing edge is being presented open source. However I'd definitely patent your Supergraphic display system before someone steals it!
Hahahaha :)
That's what I was thinking too.
Your "Super Graphic Display System" makes me love this channel 187% more than I already do. This is great. Thank you! ~Sincerely, someone from the states who isn't batshit. ,,, dot com
Absolutely genius! Why has nobody thought of this before!?
+Derpmuffins The Great pearl has a fully rounded bearing edge on a reference series.
Victor - it's a very different approach
I can tell you why it works better than a radius on one side: without the bead, supplying a break angle, the skin will be able to lift up off the edge on half of the waveform, and it'll basically change the tuning / damp the resonance. With a sharp edge, as on a guitar bridge, the pivot point is sharp and always in the same place. A sitar bridge involves the string being able to lift up off the "shelf" and slap back down onto it.
You guys are cool.
awesome :)
Love it Andy. Great concept. Nice &*^% you to a certain major manufacturer to boot.
Thank you, gents.
Love this kind of innovation without a price tag if only other companies would share ideas the human race would begin to evolve instead of the mass destruction we inflict upon this earth and yes love the British this wouldn't happen anywhere where there are big bucks to be made
I have heard these drums and have to admit they probably are the best sounding drums you could ever own
And we saw it first here so nobody can stick a patient on this innovation
Big hand to the British
Build a huge, boomy Floor tom with that type of bearing edge
That's really smart 😗👌🤜🤛
man, thanks!
Excellent work. Lovely tone and sustain on my favourite size of rack tom. It would've been slightly more effective to compare the drum with the GT bearing edge alongside a drum with a more standard edge.
Once again, a beautifully pure sound :)
I guess drums more than any other instrument lend themselves to being a team sport. You get drummers together and we can all play at once! As a team. Or the traditional Drum Crop.!
If I may ask a couple of questions:
1. Is there a minimum of shell material needed to sculp this edge (in millimeters for instance)?
2. Do you think this edge could be used on thicker shelled drums to improve resonance?
3. If used on a thicker shell, does the wider width of the edge change the desired result?
Thank you for your contribution to the drum world!
Now, i'm thinking of modifying my drums to that bearing edge.
Thinking about round bearing edges and why having the peak works better, my theory is that as the head material flexes up, as it vibrates, the material lifts away from the bearing edge increasing the distance between the fixed points of the head on the shell, changing the "note" and hence killing the wave. The peak maintains the fixed point of the head on the shell helping the wave to ossilate for longer and with a purer form. Thoughts?
Fuck! this is just great!!! What a great idea and I really dig the comraderae (sp)! Thank you folks!!!
This is exactly what I did when I made my first set of drums. I was 14 I believe.
That's rediculous, it sounds so good
With the exception of that tiny little ridge on the last inside ply, this is quite similar to the "full contact" bearing edge that C&C offers on their drums.
If the additional peak was applied to a ply shell construction, it would likely be nearer the middle plies.
whoa ...
🙏❤️🙏
For anyone wanting to hear how we apply this edge, take a listen to this th-cam.com/video/0plNXeGvYsc/w-d-xo.html We use it to increase head sustain of the bottom head whilst putting the brakes on the top head with a very rounded edge. The result is a balanced drum when listening acoustically but a lot of control under close mic's on the top head without resorting to muffling.
This is very exciting and I'm gonna try making it on a demo tom I have somewhere.
However I have one concern; it does look very fragile. Since the edge itself is further into the inside of the drum compared to regular 45/45 edges, it is more prone to be hit by a rogue stick. Also it is a quite delicate profile to make and it seems risky to do on thinner shells without re-rings.
If the shell is hard like maple then I can't imagine a stick hit damaging it...
So cool that you didn't try to profit on it.though, you should've made it so ppl had to source your name. The guru bearing edge (tm) sounds pretty cool
This all sounds and looks handsome :) Still, I have questions. I find the different brand drum heads having a very different side profiles. For example, the Remo heads have much higher profile compared to Aquarian. Combined with the angle, the flat hitting surface of Remos seem to be a bit smaller. Aquarians have a smaller and lower collar area (which helps them to fit on many bearing edges better). Plus, mylar seems to be quite stiff at the molded collar. How do different head brands flex around the rounded outer part especially with lower tuning? Does the new edge work with some particular head brand better? I guess that this type of bearing edge is meant mostly to the tom toms where a longer sustain is desired ? Thanks anyway for the new inventive idea
it looks like one of the ghosts from pacman. interesting design i would like to hear it in action
th-cam.com/video/0plNXeGvYsc/w-d-xo.html
Great video I love it. I have just recently started building stave snare drum how do you think that bearing edge would affect a stave snare drum made out of northern birch with the dimensions 14inch wide and 5inch deep and 1/2 inch thick sides?
We don't believe this edge will bring any significant benefit to the resonant side of a snare drum.
Uhh, I like it! It looks like you,ld need a CNC cutting file to do it right!
I am thinking of making my own drums. What angle are you using on the inside? I am assuming radius is dependent on the shell thickness?
The entire design is dictated by the shell / reinforcement ring thickness. Essentially, it's what you can fit in with the thickness you have available.
it works because there are more diagonal lines.
Fantastic sound. But how is it that the large manufacturers haven't figured this out yet?!
Oh, they've probably seen this, but it's time consuming to create (read - cost), & you need either a thicker shell / thinner shell with reinforcement rings to accommodate it. Also important, is how you apply it as part of the overall design.
Several large manufacturers offer bearing edge options. But only on their higher range drums.
mapex soniclear
@@GustavoUnser Mapex just ripped off an edge used by many for decades - nothing new, & completely different to this edge
@@gurudrums1 ohhh, didn't know that, thanks for replying
I too love this great idea you have came up with, but what are the angles of the inner and outer cuts and is this something I could do at home for my own set. Thanks for sharing your find and knowledge. P.S. I am not a drum builder don't have the money for a new kit but for years been trying to get the sound you have came up with. Thanks again take care.
The outer cut is a radius, the inner cut angle is mostly irrelevant. You could apply this edge if your shells are thick enough, or if your shells have reinforcement rings.
Bearing edges are the most over-thought element of a drum. If edges were understood as a nut / bridge on a guitar we would all be better off. Love and respect.
Ronn, I couldn't agree more, hence me stating it's just another choice to enable you to shape how the drum responds. There's no such thing as a golden ticket feature - the drum industry is fixated on "features". This edge actually does what it says on the tin, but it's how you apply it that either offers value or not. We only use this on one drum series, & that series is designed to sit dialled in under close mic'ing. Essentially we remove the higher overtones from the batter head (the point at which the mic is usually concentrating on) by using a very rounded edge form, then we use this new edge on the resonant side to balance out the drum response. This means we get a lot of control of the batter head, but still have a drum that's capable of delivering a very long note if you want it. Of course, you can tension the drum to deliver shorter notes too, just as with any drum design.
Not unlike the nut on a guitar-
I'd imagine your edge has a much lower tuning capability as well 👌🏼
Hi, Andy! I tried messaging you on your facebook page, but it says you've quit due to health issues :( Very sad to hear and I hope you're doing better. I'm planning on building my own drumkit and was wondering about the timpanic bearing edge. What is the minimum thickness on the shell that you recommend for this edge to work properly?
I’m opposite, struggling to eliminate sustain on toms, on vintage drums that I had to restore, remove wraps duo to bad condition, re-painted & put 10+ layers of lacquer. Too resonant & sustained sound
Please apply for a job narrating Thomas The Tank Engine.
Hahahaha
I'd like to cut this bearing edge on a classic Ludwig set I'm redoing. Where can I get the router/cutter bit? Is that a custom bit?
I've just uploaded this - it should help you :) th-cam.com/video/MLz0tgvSdBc/w-d-xo.html
Is there a router bit that cuts this in one step?
I'm currently building myself a compact drum set as a project for myself and plan to use this edge. I'll have my progress documented on my social media and will definitely refer to it as the Guru bearing edge. That is, should I be successful in executing it.
Do you use a roundover bit raised to the point that the straight will cut into the edge a little for the outside or do you go with a different bit?
Yes exactly, essentially over depth a standard radius cutter.
facebook.com/GuruDrumsLtd/videos/446517478884051/
@@gurudrums1 Fantastic, thanks for answering so quickly!
cool!
I love the concept of round bearing edges trimming off unwanted overtones and generating more of a woody sound!
From the little i know... vintage 50s & 60s drums with reinforcement rings have a combined edge thickness (shell + ring) of 0.3 - 0.5 inches. This thickness allows for a large rounded edge radius and therefore more head to shell contact.
Consider a modern ply shell without re-rings that is not extra thin, but medium-thin to med-thick 0.2 - 0.3 inches (5.0 - 7.6 mm)... Knowing the rounded edge radius will be smaller with slightly reduced head to shell contact than drums with re-rings... will these smaller rounded bearing edges still control the overtones & warm up the sound without reinforcement rings?
Does a snare drum with rounded edges truly lack any of the positive qualities associated with angled edge snare drums?
Ah Bearing edges!!! Well it's a Perfect World rite??? Sorry but I've heard drums from all genre's & well they sound great. Tama drums made in the 80s ( just one example) sound amazing!!! I use many bearing edges on Different drums & mainly large diameter drums more of a round Over as the diameter increases!!! Heads, Rims, woods & shell thickness affect the sound!!! If u had a solid shell with no hardware & that shell could Vibrate 2 it's full potential, it would resonate 2 it's max!!! Mass & insulators mute the drum!!! Less is best Imo!!!
So.... where do we buy this router bit?😁
Glen, use two standard router bits. The outer edge form is cut using a simple radius bit, taking the cut depth beyond the table contact surface to create the lip. Size of radius depends on shell / re-ring thickness.
@@gurudrums1 how does one cut beyond the table surface depth?
Has anyone ever told you that your accent and vocal timbre are exactly like Simon Phillips? You're probably from the same neighborhood.
I call this the "Larry" edge.
Indeed - Larry's kit was the first to use this.
it gonna cost me a fortune on moongel though!
Very noble thing to not patent this, very much like the open source movement with software.
Looked at the comments and surprised I did not find my complaint: For someone talking about "sound" you did not bother producing audio for your video that CAN BE HEARD! I can hear the room in which you recorded the video, not the voice presenting information. Not being able to understand what you explained, the tom tom you struck is the last sound I want to hear from my drums. You feel my tom toms!
if you can't hear this audio, got get your ears checked you silly deaf twat! yes its not studio produced, but he's talking clearly & you can hear it, its just a simple audio clip talking about an idea they had, I'm willing to bet they didn't have the time or budget to go into that, its obviously just a on the fly video in their workshop.
I watched it & understood/heard everything so the video fulfilled its purpose perfectly.
Recording was simple "on the fly" camera audio, no attempt at professional sound manipulation that would open us up to the accusation of "enhancing" the result. The tom sound featured is mostly unusable in most circumstances. This was simply a demonstration of capability. In the real world, the edge has applications, but not everywhere, and only within the concept of the overall instrument design.