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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2019
- After 6 years my home solar power installation failed!
But what component failed? let's find out..
FYI: The isolator is a Bendict LS25 PFLH4
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I kinda predicted this back in a previous video when I noted the wear on the box
@Luca Capelli Content creation by doing mistakes.
@Luca Capelli if it still working....don't touch it!
Dave, here's something bigclivedotcom always mentions: For outdoor boxes of electrical installation, it's always advisable to drill a hole on the bottom side so that water can drip out, instead of collecting in there and corroding stuff. So a "weatherproof" casing with one drain hole might not have corroded this isolator switch. Or at least not as badly in such a relatively short time (come on, a rooftop installation, do you really want to change it more than once per decade? Ideally it should last two decades!)
@EEVblog DAVE... This is the reason for the switch recall... and how you have dodged a bullet...
th-cam.com/video/10Gnf-wvF7A/w-d-xo.html
This was on the ABC 2 days ago.
NO plastic on the roof!!,.....jeez
quick search and these are available in aluminium www.katko.com/products/photovoltaic-switches/pva-pvm-photovoltaics-dc-enclosed-switches/
"Check out the sludge on my tip!"
Might want to see a doctor.
UNBELLIVABLE!
Why did i first thing when i hear that in video stop it and check for comments.... vierd :)
Best thing i heard all day ROFL :)
"Phrasing… Boom"
Yep, there it is, near the top, right where I expected it to be.
And that's why BigClive says to drill holes in the bottom, if seals fail, at least water can escape through the holes before it does damage... :)
I do think that will help but it will fail eventually
I'm going to do that with a LED security light fixture replacement. The original ended up with 3 cm of water inside the "sealed" enclosure. None between the back of the unit and building. Humidity pump. Same reason AC fan motors have a drain plug you have to remember to take out the one on the lower end if you replace the motor.
I don't know that i'd recommend that solution since it would allow humidity to effect the entire device. Water would still collect inside with the holes in bottom. Better to solve the seal failure problem. Maybe throw a desicant pack in there for good measure.
@@youtubasoarus This is normal practice on outdoor electrical equipment.
@@Faddnn Could be, doesn't mean it's correct or that it can't be improved upon. That's old world thinking. "We've been using horse and buggy for centuries... why do we need a car?"
Isolator did it's job. It isolated your panels.
@ungratefulmetalpansy youtube comment of the year! Well played sir!
@ungratefulmetalpansy yes, very good.
"Look at the sludge on my tip!"
[concerted roar from the crowd] _"Show us your tips"_
might wanna see a doctor about that
Unbelievable!
Well I'm glad I looked at the comments as someone beat me to it. Well at least we know that there's other people out there who may think the same but not that many tho that actually wanted to post it lol 😂 😂
A dead dingo's donger?
"And the seal couldn't keep the water out."
Seems to have done a reasonable job of keeping it in, though.
Sometimes I think it is better not to seal for that reason. If water gets in it can't get out and it corrodes everything. A weep hole on the bottom might be better to allow it to drain and dry out. I have only seen three ways to guarantee something outside won't fail. Heavy duty expensive sealed enclosures, potting or pressurized with nitrogen. Even conformal coating will fail if moisture sits on it for too much time. I worked with traffic cameras that were pressurized. The system monitored the pressure and as long as it was up then you know nothing can get in. If you don't want to enclose, pot, coat, or pressurize then you need air flow to keep it dry.
Bloody stupid place to put a plastic isolator box fully exposed on its side on the roof it would not have lasted 5 mins in our weather
Yeah I know, like why couldn't he put it under the panel so UV isn't directly on it.
Yep! Or maybe put this switch in some additional enclosure! But I agree! Completely wrong mounting!
yeh it is a bloody stupid place to put but ive seen a ton of them mounted this way
Without looking it up, I don't think the standards allow for rooftop isolators to be mounted in direct sunlight any more. They're usually installed with a shield over them now.
Also, the number of times I've seen installers grumble about our standards requiring rooftop isolators. Frequent failure and fire point.
@@villiersman951 To me this looks like it's deliberately mounted this way so it will break much sooner then it should be.
The isolator on the roof is a requirement in Australia. Yes, they fail all the time.
there is a market for a good product there
My system installed in 2011 doesn't have a rooftop isolator as it wasn't a requirement then. I believe the installation was mandated so that emergency services could isolate the system as some sites have the inverter and switching inside the building.
Only thing I could think of was because the cables go in to the roof space?
Usually due to bad quality, cheap stuff!, people assuming this is a simple device just to turn off and that’s easy and it will Operate just few times, so they don’t care that much about quality.
@mPky1 Often in a structure fire, a "vent hole" will be cut in the roof to clear out smoke or to apply water from above. The isolator is so the panels can be shut off for firefighters to do this safely. I can't imagine how "interesting" it would be to sever wires with 400+ volts unfused DC on tap. :-)
Geez, a $5 metal shade cover to protect the plastic from direct sunlight would have saved a heap of frustration and cost eh?
Also protects from hail impacts.
Yep, or if they just used a properly UV rated box
@@EEVblog Or, even simpler, mount it in the shade of the panels :-/
Perhaps adding a UV stabilized shroud (open on the bottom) to protect the next switch?
Looks like there is enough space to install it under the panel protecte from uv...
That's a band-aid on a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place; what you want is a switch box made from a UV stabilized well-insulating plastic like PTFE, or similar glass-fiber reinforced plastics; or a metal enclosure to begin with. I have no idea about Australian electrical code but an insulated (plastic) electrical switch inside of a metal enclosure is pretty much standard in the US where I live. Metal might rust, but it will never degrade and crack like plastic as long as your gaskets are good. And from a little searching there are much more durable (and expensive) isolation switches for this exact application. Those original switch boxes are cheap crap and not suited for extended UV exposure.
ErikTheRed the problem shouldn’t exist, because there shouldn’t be a switch on the roof in the first place.
My install has a shroud. Seems pretty dodgy to have the switch out in the open like that, especially with the seal facing straight up.
@@athhud if you have a panel fail you need a way to disconnect it from its neighbors without electrocuting yourself.
Fail? That's just called a bad designed box for a switch.
Even the position and angle is wrong, asking for problems.
I have one on my roof for very close to 9 years no, not even a little bit of dirt in it.
Yep. They should have at least stuck it farther back so the panel could shield it some. Rotate it 90 degrees too.
Hence why a shield is a legal requirement. Probably not a legal requirement when that was installed though.
The legal requirement should be that no plastic parts are allowed to be exposed to environment.
exposure will always happen. but near continuous sunlight should be environment that legally mandates a shield so the product is fit for purpose.
@Kevin Miedema Don't be daft plastic, with freaking high voltage and wattage, should not be out in the open in the environment which includes the sun. All plastic deteriorates and becomes brittle when exposed to the outside world but add the sun beating down on it and it turns very brittle in no time flat.
The switch box should have been protected by a small roof against the elements.
@@Okurka. Ultimately it is the CUSTOMER that decides what is acceptable...
That's why we now put them under a stainless steel cover now ...
😉
Yes, the issue is that the stainless steel cover get very hot and transfer all that heat to the isolator.
@@perezc11 This is no issue. First of all there is a gap for air, and more importantly the direct sun would be a lot hotter than the radiation from the steel will ever be.
The seals failed? I dunno, it seemed pretty good at keeping that water in ;)
Leaving plastic in a direct sunlight. You're gonna have a bad time.
Finder TRE Yep there you go.
All the molecules fall out, sorry wear out.
Cheap plastic for sure, which that obviously was. Glass fiber nylon or similar plastics will tend to hold up longer, but durable plastics that I know of aren't particularly UV stable. Ultimately though a low-oxidizing or enameled metal enclosure is what you want, or just a cover over the plastic box with ventilation to keep light out.
@@robthesamplist
"All the molecules fall out"
the freedom molecules.
As BigClive says water always gets in no matter what you do, it's better to have small drain holes on the bottom of enclosures like that, probably shouldn't have been plastic in the first place but I guess metal has short/ground complications instead.
100% agree
Just as the ABC puts a piece out on PV failing in Australia, EEVBlog's PV fails hmmm
Also includes section about failed DC isolators. Do I smell a conspiracy theory?
If it doesn’t turn on, take it apart!
5:20 “Check out the sludge on my tip!” - You should get some cream for that.
I live in the Netherlands. No DC isolator switch afaik. Painting plastic is not a bad idea.
I'm going to glue a plastic "roof" over each switch for extra protection.
Nice video! I bought my inverter in 2000 - a 5K - 24v to 120 AC. I designed and installed the entire system myself at my house. I do not have a DC switch thing you have. I used a controller for the batteries; also from 2000. Hope you well.
My system after 20 years has degraded a lot: 10 panels = 1200 watts - 2 panels broke/failed - the remaining 8 panels after 20 years make: This is: 8 120 Watts panels that are 20 years old: they make: maybe total of 600?? The Great news is that new panels are 70% less: I upgraded this year by adding 5 300 watts of panels. Now my system gets me 8 K watts a day if I run the AC.
You've got the alternative model. Your isolator indicates "on" when it's actually 'off'
You shouldn't have any part of an isolation box with seals facing up. Seals on the top are bound to fail over time especially if subjected to icing conditions.
Notice that the PVC case itself has weathered just fine. Either a poor design or poor mounting location. Perhaps it was designed for outdoor use but not with direct exposure to rain. If it was mounted under the panel there very likely would not be any sign of moisture getting in.
Lots of SUN, some rain, and so on... The sun gets rid of the plasticizers in the seal, and then rain takes care of the rest... Best to have some form of sun shade over the box... That would help keep rain off it to some extent, but would keep the sun off of the thing...
Replace the switch with a connector block untill the new switch comes.
Pointless switch :-(
Maybe do it at night to be safe with the 400V though lol
@@Firecul night time + gloves + wire nuts
@@FindLiberty And a couple of cheap 2USD crocodile clip cables and a webcam might make nice TH-cam content when the sun comes up.
They are required by the law so he got no choice
@@hennochoi the law was obviously not drafted by an electrical engineer!
Top side isolator is for protecting people working on the roof. Inverter side isolators are for protecting people working on the inverter. Makes perfect sense as protection. And by definition an isolator is rated to provide large clearance when open, but no ability to break loads and a low max cycle count (a switch is the opposite). Also notice that the isolators can be locked out in the isolated position using the workman's personal padlock.
These isolators are required to be able to break the DC under load (load break disconnect). ASNZS 5033 doesn't require them in NZ but does in Aus (4.4.1.5 & 4.4.1.6).
In NZ unpluggable connectors are considered sufficient for ensuring isolation at the array, as you can break the load current at the inverter.
Exactly. To be precise, isolators are usually rated to break the load at least once. Meaning breaking the max load can and probably will destroy the isolator in worst case but won't lead to further damage when it gets open under load for some human error reason. Or when the typical mechanical interlock (can't open unless both sides are grounded) fails.
@@shana_dmr These are required to be load-break disconnectors to 60947 for at least a DC-21B duty. That's switching a resistive load, not no load.
In germany you don't install such switches. (On small Solar Systems). Just connect your strings to the inverter :D
In the UK you do install the switches, but they are generally in the attic where they don't see UV exposure.
That switch was evaluated by UL under File E359344 (indicated by the backwards UR symbol) and it was only tested to a Type 1 rating = Indoor use only. It was never tested by UL for outdoor wet-location use, like it is currently being used (which would need a rating of Type 3R, 4, or 6). I do see the switch marked with an IP66 rating, but that was never tested by UL, since that solid line separates the UL "use information" from all the other information that may or may not be certified by another certification agency.
We have an isolator on the roof as well, however, they thoughtfully installed it UNDER the panels so that it's protected from the elements, so luckily no faults so far!
A tiny strip of reflective foil tape over it would have kept the plastic out of UV harms way.
Or even just tape.. Of course you'd need to keep replacing it.
In any system,one would expect the most hi-tech component to fail. Surprisingly, this failure was caused by the most low-tech component
Indeed, I expected something electronic in the inverter to have gone titsup... and require Dave's sleuthing to find the design flaw!
It's for safety, by code it has to be within sight of the controlled device (solar panels). Also the switch (all) should have provisions for LOTO (Lock Out Tag Out) for safety.
We have 4 solar installations at home.
The first is from then 90s and has a earthing, mains DC switch separate from the inverter.
All newer ones use the DC-Breaker of the Sunny Boy, which can only be used limited number of times under load, but is cheap and can easily be replaced.
At least here in Germany there seems to be no additional requirement for a DC breaker switch, as long as the Inverter has one build in.
I also think they are mandatory, because they prevent you pulling and arc when disconnecting the cables (the breaker has to be pulled to gain access to the plugs).
We have never had any issues, even the >23 year old PV system is going strong, though the display of the oldest sunny boy failed at some point, we see no reason to replace it, it is just not well made and as long as the green "working good" LED shines and the metered power is good, it does not really matter.
I think you figured out why they are getting recalled...
Actually the ones being recalled are catching on fire, nothing to do with external ingress
No isolator switch on my system on the roof. (Finland)
Yeah, not common here in the UK either. They rely on the fact the isolator at the inverter can be padlocked with a lockout tagout system
Thanks for sharing
In my work, I usually drill a big hole in the lowest point, to let the water OUT off the IP67 boxes, when in open air...
Whoops, really? It won't be IP67 if you drill a hole in it lol. What you want is a breather to let out the humidity, but stop water/dust ingress
I've also a SMA SunnyBoy. There is a DC Switch on the Inverter itself (Which is also indoors). Apart from that there is no extra switch on the DC Side.
Laws regarding electrical installations are rather strict here in Germany. But one DC switch on the inverter itself seems legal.
I put the switch under the solar panel. Absolutely fine
Felenov-official that’s illegal
@@brycewright2336 No it is not. It is just tucked under the panel so rain does not go on it
Seems like a coat of paint on the switch box might have protected the plastic from UV. Might be worth painting the replacement one.
Yer I was thinking that. Bit of car paint from a rattle can???
You need the isolator on the roof for when work is done on the roof ( safety ) and by the inverter also for safety. Try mounting it physically under a panel ( Switch marked and easily usable ) so you get only reflected UV on to the box. Plan that much farther ahead.
I think it's part of the installation standard now to have a small metal covr over the top of the rooftop isolator to protect from this UV/weather damage
UV + hail...
UV will make it brittle & some hail will beat the ba-jeebus out of it.
Needs a durable shield over it, or under panel install?
Or, make it out of Aluminium?
The second isolator switch is there because if the first one fails you can only hope that the second one does not ;)
If that is the case, which sounds reasonable) why not put it down near the other switch for better access.
Redundancy makes sense, but why is this one in such open weather conditions?
There was a discussion in Germany a few years ago, where one opinion was that these emergency switches might cause more fire hazard then they could do good in case of fire shutdown.
I ALWAYS paint cpvc/pvc as an added uv protection.
Drain holes ? Spiders and other bugs in !
Thanks for the post !
It's totally possible to make a drain hole that keeps bugs out... Though, humidity might make the drain hole more of a bane rather than a boon.
At the very least, some kind of protection beyond just the base plastic is a must in the sun
Maybe cover the new switch housing in reflective foil tape?
A proper weatherproof steel disconnect switch would have been a better choice for a roof mounted switch. That plastic flex conduit tends to disintegrate after several years in the sun, too.
Yep, wrong conduit used. There are other types of plastic conduits that do not fail in UV.
Whilst interning at a solar company, seeing the sparky (electrician) bring back one of those dc isolators with huge arc marks in it due to water ingress was an eye opener.
Our eversolar (now zeversolar) inverter failed after 3 years, luckily just within warranty - so replaced for free! Supposedly it'll pay itself back in 10 years, not if the inverter goes again it won't! Having searched for our model on youtube I found a video of a chap who found the fault to be dead relays, he did quite a large Big Clive style test with lots of exposed parts and got the relays working again by bending them with a screwdriver. :D
Some countries require isolation switches when electrical cables enter into a building.
Shoddy install. Who puts cables in to the top of a box especially outside. Asking for water ingress.
I love stuff like that. I inherited mechanical workshop where electrical work had been done in 1930's that had roof leakages since around 20 years, basically whole building is collapsing. I have a big-ass pre-WW2 circuit breaker (or how they called it in the days "automatic electric switches") where half the case material is rust. Surprise - it still disconnects on overload and passes current when it's on just fine. I have packet switches for light circuits from 1930's that still work just fine. I have high current three-phase connectors using standards that have been obsolete since 1950's that still work just fine. Whole installation is made in the old European style in bended metal pipes, using cables with cloth insulation, with all this weird obsolete stuff, and despite being exposed to 80 years of rain, winter and rodents I installed 30 mA RCD for safety and everything works. Then I have modern plastic three-phase 75A socket that decided to fall apart after few years of usage. Very nice falling apart, when I was removing plug from the socket it decided to remove the business end of the socket and expose live wires ;)
Have you asked someone to quote on replacing all the nice long-lasting metal conduit and switchgear with modern metal equivalents?
This is one of the most useful and valuable videos you've made, mate. Good on ya!
I'm so accustomed to inverters that step up the voltage that I lost track of their actual function.
Hey Dave! Love your channel. Did that short out the panels? Does a prolonged short cause damage?
You can short the array and it doesn't cause any damage.
These update videos are a stark reminder of how fast time flies ...
The purpose of the isolator switch near the panels is for fire fighting (at least from what I know, there may be other reasons). This is so we can isolate the section of cable going down to the inverter, making it safer to spray water on a burning building.
5:22 Oh no, you don't want to get sludge on your tip!
Hahaha, I was going to mention that too
That's what she said
We have an isolator switch on the roof as well as on the wall. I can only guess it's a convenience issue so electricians don't have to climb off/on the roof if they find that they need to turn them off? No idea.
But the power is generated in the panels not from the inverter, so it doesn't make any sense. Only case I can see would be if you had two strings and needed to isolate one of the strings on the roof.
My thoughts exactly. Electricians will risk working on it Live without the inconvenience of climbing down stairs to turn it off.
Craig S The inverter isn't safety certified not to feed mains back onto the panels. internal isolation is absent or only rated for a functional disconnect. Simpler to just disconnect completely during panel work and allow the inverter to be built for max efficiency with lots of PCB traces between AC and DC sides.
It's a safety issue. If I'm working on the inverter and I have the switch at hand I know it's turned off, period. If it's on the roof I'm not sure, there might be another person doing something there and flip the switch. It's the same reason that HV installations have these fancy disconnectors that create a visible gap for people working on the circuit, despite them not being able to disconnect any serious current and all the under load work being done by SF6/oil/whatever super fancy devices.
@@shana_dmr This argument doesn't make sense because the electricity is coming from the panels, the thing you'd be working on up there. Unless that roof switch turns off the sun, it does nothing. The only time that switch does anything useful is when you're working on the wiring between the two switches when it's being installed.
Since you're in Australia you have a shed with some old tin inside it. Get that tin (watch out for snakes), and make a little roof for the isolator (watch out for magpies). Once that's done, follow the chain of electricity, paying attention to where it goes into the nooks and crannies (watch out for spiders). If there's any puddles or other water nearby, make sure to isolate the cable the cables and keep them as dry as possible (watch out for sharks). If you need any parts, head down to Bunnings to get them, as well as a snag and Pasito to eliminate that hunger you've worked up.
I have 2 strings and one of the roof isolators melted during the warranty period so I was able to get it replaced for free. Problem was I was overseas during summer and missed the solar input for a fair amount of my time away. Thankfully it didn't start a fire and I had a house to come back to!
yes, the Clean Energy Regulator (CER) mandates a roof mounted isolator and they are a significant source of failures. The idea is allegedly being reviewed. One thing you can do is put a metal sheild over the roof box to shade it. Some installers do that for you , sometimes you have to find a sheet of aluminium or stainless and mount it yourself. The stupidest idea is to put the isolator under a panel, because when the isolator catches fire you destroy the panel. Sorry, I mean "in the unlikely event that...". Ahem.
Aren't there talks to eliminate the CER since the huge disaster with so-called "renewable energy"?
Just curious why metal or composite enclosures are not used, regulations? I have lots of outdoor 220V outlets that have the typical metal box and the enclosures are absolutely bulletproof. Don't really see how DC voltage coming from panels would be any different when it comes to electrical switch boxes. I'm sure there are far better isolator boxes available, there's no way commercial installations would have something that would deteriorate that quickly. The idea of putting a shield over is putting a band-aid on a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
douro20 Eliminating a basic safety device because some companies sold a bunch of dodgy ones is the kind of stupidity I would expect from politicians and flat Earthers, not people working seriously with electricity.
@@erikthered4929 The thing is that having an isolator on the roof is the stupid idea, and we can't easily fix that. Waterproof metal boxes are available but relatively expensive and as people have said repeatedly, the market is very competitive. So even a good installer is going to find that they just don't make the consideration list if they bump their quotes by $100 for a proper enclosure. Let alone having to explain it every time while trying not to sound like a lying weasel. The industry here is full of lying weasels trying to upsell people.
The people who put my system in fitted a decent plastic enclosure and it was fine after 5 years but when I had the roof replaced so the panels came off then back on they changed the box and also fitted a metal sunscreen.
Don't forget to do a 2min tear down
I ALSO SUGGEST to replace the other one near the inverter
no need to
Great video Dave! Very clear, concise and to the point. Just how I like it :)
The reason I know about for having an Isolation switch on the roof is apparently to help fire fighters disable the system before they fight a fire.
They are instructed to not go on the roof or even fight a fire if the solar system is still active throughout the call.
The concept of rooftop isolators is so ridiculous that Australia is on their own insisting fitment.
Even New Zealand which shares our wiring rules were smart enough to reject that part of the solar wiring standards.
I see a good use of it... firefighter come and switch it off from the outside of the house.
@@honumoorea873
I believe it was the fireys insistence that made these rooftop isolators a requirement.
Ironically though, one wouldn't go on a roof to access these switches if it was on fire;
and it was probably one of these switches that caused the bloody fire.
@@v8snail I do not know the stats about fire and reasons that make them happend. But I know I would put one external isolator outside my house. It would be like saying an electrical (general) panel in house is useless cause when there is fire in the house it can't be accessed, in many cases it can. When firefighters arrive on site, they will first disconnect panels through the switch then they will try to stop the fire. In my country this is mandatory on public buildings. Cause it would imply higher risk for them (high voltage + water = no go).
The switch got to be on an extremity of the array, easily accessible. If the whole roof is on fire then... anyway, there is not a lot to be saved. 😊
A properly installed switch (not the one from the video) would be able to last for a long time.
@@honumoorea873
The isolator in the video is mounted as per the AU standards except panel manufacturers can void the warranty when isolators are attached directly to a panel. They should be mounted to the panel mounting rails or independently close by.
Very few switch enclosures installed in the elements will remain free of moisture ingress as capillary action with heating/cooling cycles is incredibly powerful. It's the high voltage DC that makes them an issue with electrolysis increasing conductive paths and an arc that won't quench as there is no zero crossing sine wave as with AC www.acsolarwarehouse.com/news/solar-fires-dc-arc-faults-on-solar-systems/
No electrical isolator will stop the panels producing voltage up to the isolator anyway, they need to be blocked from light. The isolator at the inverter or breaker box is all fireys need to access. It would be insane to install your house main breaker switch to be exposed to the full effects of the elements, which is why it isn't.
The water stream from a fire hose will not conduct electricity anyway as there not a laminar flow, i.e. there are breaks between the flow of water. I personally have doused 22kV power lines with a fire hose during a pole top fire after being given the false information that the lines were isolated and I felt nothing through the nozzle.
@@v8snail There is one way that is not a continuous flow of water but some are and can't be use in those cases while they could be useful.
Micro inverters solve the problem, some optimizers too, they can be electrically disconnected and automatically do in some circonstances.
This switch is badly placed cause the side of the box which is not waterproof is oriented to the top which is pretty dumb in my opinion. It can be put in a waterproof box. In my "design" panels are on the ground, inverter, batteries are in a small shed behind/under those panels. Firefighters can come and disconnect all from one place. Batteries are in a concrete box.
Circuit breakers on each panels can also be used and electrically open/closed with a common remote. There are many possibilities. And if well done can last for decades. I can't see why a waterproof box would let moisture come in, or course the box got to be protected from UViolet to prevent a too fast deterioration.
I've had the housing for an isolator switch failed replaced it with metal housing never had another problem.
Give it time.. god forbid they use a material that lasts forever like stainless steel.
Stainless steel and others metals are kinda conductive lol. Shit idea
But you could just put it under a metal shield for example
Great video! Thanks for the content.
My inverter failed at year 8 (warranty replacement with an identical unit). The replacement failed just short of 10 years, still under warranty. I am nearing 12 years now but the warranty was only for 10 years. So far, so good.
Maybe a dumb question..but how do you disconnect the power from the panels while you change the switch ?
I'm not sure of the proper way, but I just disconnect the panels from each other.
They use something like MC4 connectors you can easily disconnect each panel from the series line going to the isolator.
Very timely since that 7:30 Report story the other day
I didn't know about that
@@EEVblog Be interested in what you think of the Aus solar panel market. The report makes it sounds like there is a lot of cacky out there.
thanks for showing this. gives me yet another adjustment I would have to calculate in when building my own system here in NZ.
yeah, anything plastic is going to have to be built out of extremely resistant to UV materials, or else replaced by non plastic.
the ozone hole is smaller... but we still have over 40 years before UV levels drop close to normal.
You are lucky that bad switch didn't burn your house down! May need to provide extra weather protection for it. The news down there had a story just this week on how those switches and substandard batteries were catching houses on fire. Glad this was such a minor malfunction!
Cheaply made switch enclosure. Good weather UV resistance enclosures should be 100% waterproof and made out of a fiberglass composition with a gasket for the cover.
The switch prematurely failed because of this poorly made enclosure. Designed to fail and collect water.
You don't want to keep that sludge on your tip. Always clean your tip after use.
That's what she said.
Nothing like a good, high quality galvanized steel box, not effected by the uv light.
In the United States that switch would be located inside of a metal box rated for outdoor wet and full sun applications. The wiring would be in a metallic EMT conduit as well, or possibly in a liquidtight FMC conduit if it needs to be flexible. It wouldn't be in plastic up on a roof.
A UV stable switch box should last 6 years of UV no problem.
The UV stable plastic VHV/UHF mix/amp boxes on antennas last like 10+years in full sun
It must be bad quality, they probably didn't put the right quality/quantity of UV stable additive in the plastic
I had a 20 years old satellite LNB that required a hammer for teardown ;)
I'm sure that no Australian supplier would use anything but the finest components, and their Australian customers would welcome the opportunity to pay for a quality product.
Goods for AUS or NZ have to be full UV stable. We are much closer to the ozone hole than most countries and get lots more UV than other parts of the world. Sometimes UV stable goods intended for general market end up sold in AUS/NZ and the UV protection is not up to the require standard for Aus/NZ market.
That switch doesn't look like it's suitable for external use anyway.
Does it have an IP rating? Are IP ratings a thing in Australia?
According to video description the model is Bendict LS25 PFLH4 and the linked produce catalog say IP66
I just checked mine, they've installed the roof top isolator within a metal enclosure providing some weather protection on 3 sides.
Seems common, I got duped
Fun fact about the inverters, David. They don't have a touch sensor. They have a microphone. If you open it it's to the right of the screen for your model, if I recall correctly
Switch and capillary water through the wire.
yea, messy situation
Any good technic to change a switch like this on a live system? I assume you can not switch off the panels 😁 or with a damn large blanket 😁
Or same as russians landing on Sun - do it during night.
As far as my knowledge goes the panels have inline connectors. I'm guessing that you would unplug the panel nearest to the breaker, but I could be wrong.
The MC4 panel connectors are designed to be unplugged live, they have a long shrouded internal contact. of course it should be done unloaded.
Put a black cloth on top of the panels?
@EEVblog - If you're required by the local building code to replace the isolator switch with a similar unit, consider wrapping aluminium foil duct tape around it to protect the vulnerable seam from sunlight. Don't use the ordinary indoor duct tape that's silver-gray plastic film on cotton cloth, which would probably fail within a year when exposed to the elements. Even wrapping the isolator box with a layer or two of ordinary household aluminium foil would extend its life by a decade or two. Check the condition of the overwrap annually for good measure and replace, if needed.
Yes you have one of the recalled isolators, which were recalled for the exact reason yours failed - not fit for purpose. Apparently there have been a number of house fires caused by it, which burn out the roof before they collapse. According to the government who subsidised these installs, “it’s not a problem for concern”.
It need to be protected from sun. Glue a galvanized plate on top or install it under the panels?
Apparently the regulations don't permit it to be installed under the panels.
For six years, how much did you make selling electricity back to the grid? Were you able to break even?
He has a 5 year update in the description.
TL;DR: His local power company doesn't pay him as much as other areas, so it's going to take 7-8 years to have the system pay for itself. Of course, there are better, cheaper systems now that would turn a profit in only 3-4 years.
See the linked video, 5 year update
@@teknoguy1212 Yes, I paid a bit of premium for this system, so that impacted the payback.
Thanks for both of your reply. I'm moving to a new house and we have solar installed as well, I'm just a bit unsure abour the -40 weather during canadian winter lol.
Don't worry, I can hear your voice over the wind perfectly clear lol.
The reason you need the isolator switch on the roof is to provide a line of sight disconnect for the array. It is a code thing. However, you also need to use a product that is fit for purpose.
Paint the plastic replacement panel.
paint it with silicone lol
@@djrobwilliam1673 paint it with fire and go with something more durable.
$10 worth of duct tape around the isolator switches :-) Next time Muriel!
That is very expensive duct tape. But I was thinking the same thing :-)
many of the DC isolators were changed / checked when it was discovered that polarity mattered because of the side that the arc chutes were on. Many DC isolators were hooked up backwards.
Many don't realize that breaking a DC current is not that easy. At 400 volts it will require a special arc snubbing switch.
"Check out the sludge on my tip!"
Im good Dave :)
May be law, but EVEN THEN it may be just a scam to sell people more junk. ~( 'w')/
That box is probably recalled for lack of uv protection lol. I say when replacement, get one with a grey, uv resistant plastic, that has a flip-down cover.
In the USA it is only required by the inverter and only lugs are used to tie the cables together. Nice video and troubleshooting!
bigclivedotcom is on his way over to disassemble your system, to entertain us!
Wow what a messy failure. How do you change that switch while powered, or can you turn power off to that switch? Will you do it yourself or hire someone? Seems dangerous with that kind of power going to that switch!
Do it at night :)
unplug one of the connectors to the rest of the array first, but only with the system turned off (no current flow).
Just don't ground yourself, and you can work on live circuits all day long. I've had several trees fall on my power lines and talked a lot with the technician that comes out and splices the lines by himself, while live. You have to properly insulate yourself (proper rubber boots and gloves, etc) and use of high quality insulated tools. Considering they can do this on high voltage service lines it shouldn't be a problem here. I haven't watched Dave's previous videos but I'm sure he would know how to do it safely, and I'm not experienced with solar but I imagine you can just disconnect the lines from the panels. Could still be disconnected at the switch box while live as long as the precautions I mentioned were taken; the live end of the wire needs to be secured/controlled to ensure there's no way it could slip or move to create a path for the current.
I'll just get someone I think. Quick job, not worth my time. But at least I troubleshooted it so I can tell them precisely what failed and they won't try and rip me off. The ad money from this video will pay for it :-D
ErikTheRed You forget about the risk of full power arcs if the two DC wires touch each other.
The purpose of the isolator switch directly at the panels is to shut off the high voltage if there is a fire: Those things are a really, really nasty surprise for firefighters as you can't switch the panels off (even at night they will pump out stupid amounts of power if they get lit by a floodlight) and they can provide a deadly electric shock if someone manages to come in contact (and that is not that hard when you have aluminum gear and a lot of somewhat conductive water around those things).
So yes, i would absolutely recommend having a switch up there since having another deathtrap for firefighters is not something you want (if it is not safe for them to perform their duties, they will not go in there).
(Little sidenote: Some firefighters even have huge amounts of black tarp on their vehicles just to cover solar panels)
We went 'cheap' and kept all the outdoor stuff under the porch. Still working though I should clean them to keep the efficiency up...