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EEVblog 1385 - 8kW Home Solar Power System EXPANSION!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 เม.ย. 2021
- Dave explands his 3kW home solar power system to 8kW using new 370W LG NEON 2 panels and Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters!
The complete installation video. Time lapse videos and other analysis videos to come on the EEVblog2 channel.
Thanks to LG Australia, Enphase and Clenergy:
www.lgenergy.c...
enphase.com/en...
Clenergy racking: www.clenergy.c...
UPDATE: The question has come up about the 295W microinverter on a 370W panel, see the follow-up video: • EEVblog 1386 - 295W In...
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*UPDATE*: If you follow me on Twitter you might already know this, and as many people have commented on below. The 5.1kW LG panel system will only output 4.13kW using the Enphase IQ7+ inverters. Because if you read the datasheet it only has a maximum output capacity of 290VA (295VA peak). So 14 x 290W = 4.06kW (4.13kW peak).
VIDEO HERE: th-cam.com/video/x4ER6I8Y9gA/w-d-xo.html
This is Enphases response, it's about about solar clipping and solar rating , I'll have to do a video covering this. Basically, it's not a problem for most system in many parts of the world, but it means there will be clipping and power loss (undercapicity) on high solar insolation days in summer.
With my old 3kW (12 x 250W) panels they did in fact output the full 250W rating in summer on many days because in Sydney we regularly get 1000W/sqm solar insolation in summer time, not 800W like they work from. I have almost 8 years of data that shows this to be true. If I hooked these 14 x 370W panels to a >5kW string inverter I have no doubt I'll get 5.1kW peak out of it in summer time.
So UNDERSTAND if you are using Enphase microinverters, they do not manufacture a module that will give the full 370W peak output power if you are in a high insolation area in summer time. As I said, most likely not an issue at all outside of summer time, or in many parts of the world.
Of course that will only be for a shortish peak during the day, but still, you are potentially limiting your panels when your inverter's output power does not match the panel.
For this system I am already peaking at the maximum 4.13kW peak in April. So my system will definitely cklip in summer time, it's just a matter of how much energy this wastes. I estimate as high as 10% on a really high solar insolation and completely clear day.
Their response:
"In order to increase the total energy yield over the lifetime of the system it is common practice to oversize the PV module (DC rating) to the Inverter size (AC Inverter maximum continuous power output rating). In Australia, the most common system size is 6.6 kWp on a 5 kVA string Inverter, this is a 133% DC:AC oversizing ratio. The maximum oversizing allowable in Australia for STC rebates is 133% or 0.75/maximum continuous power output of the inverter.
Although Microinverters convert DC to AC power at the panel level, oversizing is still important to generate a greater energy yield over the lifetime of the system. For 370 W PV modules we recommend the IQ7+ which is rated to 290 VA, a ratio of 127.6% (less than 133%). More information can be found in the following documents: enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/IQ7A_Vs_IQ7plus_in_Australia.pdf and enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/Enphase-Tech-Brief-Why-Larger-EN-US_0.pdf
The commonly paired modules information on our US website, is a bit mis-leading as we would not recommend any PV module be paired with less than a ratio of 1:1 at an absolute minimum, the peak output of IQ7A is 366 VA so the minimum PV modules size for the IQ7A would be 365/370 W. However as per the documents above we always recommend oversizing by at least 125% as in most circumstances it will be beneficial with greater energy yield over the lifetime of the system.
The other important factor to consider is that the PV modules do not always operate at Standard Test Conditions (STC lab) values, they often operate at Nominal module operating temperature (NMOT) values which are also given on the PV module data sheet. For the LG 370 W PV modules you can see the NOCT values below:
ttps://www.lgenergy.com.au/uploads/download_files/c368443778f812ed588ab828f94d48665c29a89f.pdf
Here you can see that the 370 W LG PV modules at NMOT only output 279 W which is more realistic than STC values which are tested in a lab at perfect conditions. Other factors could reduce this further these are; soiling, shading, angle and orientation."
What a waste of time...
@@elmin2323 Well, probably a waste of about 10-15% capacity in peak summertime. Likely no problem outside of then.
@@EEVblog just disappointing not pay for what your getting
@@elmin2323 Well they are now trying to explain to me that this "inverter clipping" can actualy be beneficial in terms of total energy output. As the inverter efficency curve can be more optimised to deliver better effiency at other times. They still haven't convinced me pf that though until they show me the actual characteristic curves, and it's ultimately an A-B comparison with another inverter system.
They pointed me to this: www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2019/12/how-to-maximize-solar-installation-value-using-inverter-clipping/
@@EEVblog sounds like a lot of bs 😉
Imagine having Dave leaping around while you are trying to get the job done!
Imagine Dave doing a commercial for your company, your supplier, and presenting your good and professional work. And there is also a free solar system...
How's that?;)
@@dieSpinnt agreed
When you're on the job and Dave has taken apart your multimeter
@@dieSpinnt spot on, bet thats their better crew.
Like a kid at Christmas. ;-)
I was just about to think "why in earths name would the panels be facing north, the sun's never shining from the north"
Then I remembered that I live in europe and that the world is round
what ? I thought the world was flat ! ;)
This video was filmed upside down bro
Actually it sucks so much it’s inverted now, but north and south are still the same.
Same here, didn't though the (-: thing before
But, but, I've seen the doco Beyond The Curve, are you saying they aren't right?
Dave: "You can't do a teardown on these inverters, they're completely potted". BigClive: "Were just going to soak these in a tub of acetone for about 6 hours and then we'll begin the teardown" :-D
Another Big Clive fan I see lol
The purpose of potting is not to improve performances, but to stop repairing and copying of the circuit inside and no tear downs. You will find another trick is to sand off the numbers on the chips, and do a lot in software that cannot be read from the chip either. These low shitty tactics by the manufacture should be dealt with by the market you the customer not purchasing these products no matter how good it is, tell them to not pot the unit and we will do business.
@@bjtaudio Potting has its uses aside from that. In this case it is to prevent moisture ingress.
@@bjtaudio It is on a roof, i think we can pass bashing this one for being potted...
@@bjtaudio In high voltage applications, transformers are potted to insulate the wires better than air and enamel can do to prevent arcing. Entire fluorescent tube ballasts are potted for the same reason. Electric guitar pickups are potted in wax to mitigate microphonic feedback. Potting is most definitely used for more purposes than to obscure the circuit.
Thanks Dave for the business hope you enjoy the system and our service we are available anytime. Regards Vini team Finese see you soon when you want to install the battery
Thanks, check your email, there is a problem!
Rut roh
@@EEVblog Uh oh.,...!
“..for the business….” they supplied and installed for free didn’t they????
It's so weird to me that people complain about being able to see solar panels on a room. Personally, I love seeing solar panels!
Yeah. To me, that's like complaining that you can see the roof shingles. Kinda happy they're there, tbh...
Same. Id like to buy a whole solar roof. Forget the tesla solar roof just solar panels that look like what they are making up the whole roof
Everyone complains. It is part of human nature. For example, even if a woman marries the best male in the world, she will complain about him being too flirtatious with other women because of her own insecurity.
@@ps3301 You are projecting so hard you are about to shift to your DR.
Solar panels are considered very posh where I am, so people want to show them off
46:30 typical. Brand new and it's got a big greasy pawprint on it already.
I came here to say that!
Dave just copyrighted his new panels with his hand print. ;-)
The hand prints triggered me also
As an accredited CEC installer, watching these guys that are described as LG's top installers is just disappointing. Where to begin.
-Everyone starts off having their harness *actually connected* to an anchor point and then quickly abandons that. Like wearing one but not connected offers you any sort of protection.
-Using plastic/nylon cable ties (the cable restraint system has to last the life of the system. Nylon cable ties last approx 2-5 years out doors so can't be used. If you use cable ties, the stainless steel variants are the proper ones to use)
-Reusing a 7 year old D.C isolator. This is just annoying. A brand new and better designed unit costs $35 excluding GST for god's sake. We all know how water/moisture ingress in the RTI is usually the cause of most solar fires, so why risk it by using an old one when a new and better designed one costs just $35?
-Using dektites designed for tin roofs instead of the proper, much larger, versions for tile roof penetrations
-Incorrect IP rating junction box used on the roof (with a questionable gland). Don't even get me started on the silicone job they did there ffs.
-Having different length end rails is just such poor workmanship.
-Tiles at some rail bracket locations are clearly not correctly seated and in turn pushed up risking water ingress (CEC claim that not me)
At the end of the day, ultimately, you can have the best hardware but if it's installed poorly then each one is just a point of failure. The fact that they did all of this while being recorded just shows they genuinely don't know and just haven't been trained correctly. One of LG's top installers.
Hi Dave, Just finished single handedly constructing/installing and doing all the wiring for the 11KW solar install at my place. So nice to see my insanely high electricity bills drop 90+%. Didn't do a roof mount because that requires way more red tape/systems. Also didn't do grid sell either because that gives the "authorities" the leg in to stick their nose into your business. I can't say I'm surprised that they'll start to penalize you for grid sell - I'm sure that'll be coming to the US before the drop of a hat. Most of my neighbors are going solar too and one whose been on Solar the longest said he's now starting to owe the electricity company money again! ... figures :-/ It gets super windy here in my corner of Connecticut so I'll be adding a small wind turbine for those days when the sun doesn't want to cooperate. Good luck with the new system!
I want to go completely energy independent with a battery solution as well.
@@EEVblog Yes, exactly. I have 9600AH of LiFePo batteries that run the house from when the sun goes down over night. As we roll into spring they are at about 48% when the sun comes up the following morning. I'm DIY'ing another 54000AH of lithium batteries and data center backup batteries for periods when there's no sun for 4 or more days. I also gave myself the opportunity to switch back to grid if things go really tits up - hopefully I won't be needing that but it's good to know the option is there.
@@vincei4252 I'll need a few weeks of data to see where we are at before decidign on what size system is needed. I can accurately guess seasonal variation based on the existing system data.
@@EEVblog Battery solution is very expensive and I heard somebody live on the small hill he just do a small scale pumped storage hydroelectricity system with a bucket a pump many pipes and a small creek under the hill. Thats very clever and cheap. But the efficiency is sacrificed.
@@chenli9734 Pumping water is cheaper than a new battery for sure at least if the hill is close and you can make a good elevation for the reservoir.
You missed the oppotunity to do an april fools joke about installing a solar driveway 🤣
'Check out' 32:15
@@barrieshepherd7694 I saw it, what I meant was that he should have done a separate video about it back when it was the 1st 🙂
But he did make the Solar Driveway joke!
Didn't think of that, but yeah would have been funny. Timing was was minute though
this reminds me, how long i have been watching dave
I bumped into this channel just before the install of the old panels. Yepp, 's been a while, and it never got boring! ^^)
Me too, how the years go back so quickly, when Dave said 8 Years ago I was like this 😲 🙀
Australia has its advantages over North West UK 🇬🇧
Hi Dave, I Long to cover my house and barn with solar panels. However, as a Ham Radio operator I live in fear of R.F.I. after hearing horror stories on inverters from many Hams. I never believe sales Wank about this ( How to do know a salesman is lying? His lips are moving. ) Constantly fight R.F.I. here. Printer power bricks that wipe out 2 meters, Computer monitor power bricks that wipe out HF and even "Clean" Ham Radio power supplies ( Yaesu and Astron switchers ) that produce tons of "noise" on ELF/VLF. I am forever throwing out power bricks and replacing them with analog supplies. I think it would make a great video for you to invite an R.F.I. compliance firm to visit your installation with their "Sniffer" gear and go over the system. Have them cover from 10 KHz to 450 MHz. Thanks for a great video. Vern
Get another hobby. I lived a couple of doors down from a ham radio enthusiast a few years back, whenever he transmitted it swamped my TV reception. Annoying but the worse case was when his son would get on and just transmit his awful music. Complaints to him got nowhere. Hence my tolerance for ham radio operators is minimal.
Put some cover on them so they don't get damaged from rain 😎
And the UV exposure will degrade the materials over time, so a cover would make them last a lot longer!
Just think how utterly stupid that would be if road traffic ran over it!
@@fredygump5578 exactly
No lie, I lol'd at this one.
@@fredygump5578
Especially in Australiab done of the highest UV in the world.
Hey day I think the date code is YY/MM/DD
@@blitzwing1 It's extremely common in IT and some industries, as it's much easier to sort the dates, (and also language/format agnostic)
26 is certainly not the month or year and 10 isn't likely to be the year either but 20 is very likely so. That should sort it out
@@blitzwing1 here in Sweden we write dates as YYYY-MM-DD, according to ISO 8601, and it's the best thing ever. I grew up in Russia where dates are written as DD/MM/YYYY, and that causes a lot of confusion with American MM/DD/YYYY dates. to add insult to injury, I'm a software engineer and I had to write heuristics for distinguishing between all those at some point in my career. never again.
Worked it out instantly
@@AcheForWake Same here. I'm from Sweden and this date code is common here.
It's basically a sponsored video but, I'm very happy for you and the channel ^^
Yes and no. Dave calls it as he sees it and I don't really think that who supplies the panels is as important to us as the details behind the install and the equipment. I actually think that Dave giving it the rubber stamp actually means something. We watch his vids constantly and appreciate his input, his views and his opinions and I see this as no different. I know that you weren't having a shot at him, and neither am I, at you. Cheers.
@EEVblog That manufacturing date is going to be in YY/MM/DD format - none of this DD/MM/YYYY rubbish! That missing century though... that's gonna to piss off the ISO 8601 aficionados!
YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS is the way to do it, like MySQL timestamps, and they sort properly in lists.
@@ahaveland Until we make the switch to metric time units...
46:30 that hand print on the panel setting anyone's OCD off?
YES!!! I saw that, & my eyes started twitching.
It reminded me of how people put hand prints in fresh concrete sidewalks.
Perhaps they put it there just for you :)
I got the Enphase system. Boosted my confidence in it to know Dave was willing to put it on this roof. I thought it was great, now its even better. The Enphase API is great, as is hacking against the local Envoy. I hope you look into a battery. Be great to see what you select.
Whichever one is supplied for no cost probably.
Hi there Dave I'll be watching your TH-cam quite a few years now and what I've learnt now about solo panels and how it is installed and the right inverters and the LG side panels I didn't realise there was a lot of work involved yes what a top job those guys did and I learnt a lot to
Remember watching when you first installed the solar system and it’s awesome to see you’re upgrading it even more! :D really enjoyed this video
Anti-seize paste prevents problems with old screws that refuse to work many years later. It has proven very effective in high corrosive conditions with steel-on-steel, aluminum-to-aluminum, and many other applications.
Agreed, the ceramic based ones really seem to stand up to the worst the environment can throw at them.
Back in the day, we used to coat those fasteners with Vaseline, & then maybe wrap putty around the whole connection to weatherproof them.
Can you monitor the Enphase controller directly without connecting to the dodgy cloud service? I can see horror stories about trying to get per-panel monitoring out of Enphase Australia and many Australian installers, I also don't want my data in some corporate database or my system to be remotely controllable via the Internet.
Perfect timing on this video. I am in the process of planning a 7KW system that revolves around a Sunny Boy and Sunny Island. I agonized over the thought of using Microinverters but chickened out based on the possible maintenance issues. The inverter is the most common part to fail and my Solar Tech insisted that having 12 of them is going to be a lot more problems than using just one, especially if that one is a Sunny Boy. BTW I am also going to be using LG 370W panels and an LG Lion battery system.
You have to remember that each microinverter doesn't have to work as hard as a single sunyboy, if half the microinverter's failed in a system, the other half still work unlike the sunyboy which do fail also.. replacing a microinverter is cheaper than replacing a sunyboy... Then there's the efficiency.... A sunyboy can't compete with that...
Your solution is much better for efficiency under peak conditions. Dave's install with 370W panels but only 290VA IQ7+ inverters is non-ideal. There are better microinverters for the job, but you can't go wrong with your Sunny Boy setup in terms of ease of serviceability, price, and efficiency.
@@billjohnson3344 I kind of feel that the solar Tech is leading me down the right path. He offers any of the systems, so no benefit to him either way, but he recommends the Sunny Island and Sunny Boy Combo. I will be putting up the another 12 panels within a month of seeing how well the first twelve work out. The Microinverters are great in that you can loose a couple and not have an issue. The down side is that as the tech says is that you need a truck roll each time one fails and he seems to think that they will reach a point in age when they will start failing one after another. As he said, after maybe 5 years you will be calling me every two months to replace one. He said the SMA stuff will typically last for way over 10 years and at that point it's one truck roll.
Had a change in plans as Islanding Energy using the Sunny Boy/ Sunny Island combo is a PITA. I ended up using a Sol-Ark 12K inverter and Fortress Batteries. Sooo much easier and cheaper to work with and it's super flexible. With a 4ms transfer time you don't even notice a power outage and the batteries and PV keep supplying energy together during a daytime outage.
I think you could have put two rows of panels on that roof - idea for future expansions. Dave powering the entire continent!
Dave: You want the panels in the north.
Me: What!?
Also me: Ah, yea. He is down under!
Hi Dave, at 03:43 "I've seen no degradation of performance", do micro-meteorites making holes in them not count degradation? :-)
did you ever find out what it was that make the hole in the that Solar panel?
Most likely a meteorite - I found one on my roof a couple of years ago. They are more common than people think.
We have microinverters on our 10.5KW system (2 strings). Only had one fail in the last 3 years, but most importantly didn't bring down the entire grid. Great stuff!
Cool to see the new system going in! Correction on the US installs: our solar inverters are also 240v output, unless it's a really old panel. Centre-tapped neutral for the home loads, but the panel is fed with 240v.
The Enphase IQ microinverters in particular only have L1 and L2 240V 2-wire red/black connection with no neutral or ground connection as they are electrically double-insulated. In a 120V/240V split-phase system the neutral potential is enforced by autoformer action in the grid utility distribution transformer's secondary when the load is unbalanced.
28:38 I think the date format is YY/MM/DD, so the manufacture date would be October 26th 2020.
wow thats a shitty format
@@hoodiedude4204 still makes more sense than the yankees
@@hoodiedude4204 YYMMDD makes great sense because you can use a simple numerical sort and they will end up properly ordered. It's also the most common system used in South Korea (in Korean you would naturally say that date as 2020년 10월 26일).
@@hoodiedude4204 it's the standard ISO format.
@@hoodiedude4204 literally the iso standard. Nothing else should be used
Thanks for making me feel inadequate with my “measly” 6kW system!
What should I say with 0.5kW with single double channel microinverter? ;)
@@volkhen0 , LOL, but 0.5kW is still better than zero kilowatt.
I love my LG Neon2 black 320 panels!
Installed 13 of them exactly 2 years ago. (
South facing at a 40 degree angle, with optimisers and connected to a SolarEdge inverter.
Produced 9,66MegaWatt so far.... roughly 4700kwh per year.
Living in The Netherlands with our climate that is so amazing to me! Best descision ever.
It's South in the UK aswell. I used to install them, A 4Kw system about 12 - 13 years ago was about £14k but 4Kw was the max you could have on a domestic property. The governmental payback was £0.48 ph at the time if I remember correctly. It dropped substantially within a 2year period though. People were furious
No ferrules on the wiring in that controller box - amateurs!
🙄
Maybe I missed something but I guess it's all solid core?
The taught cables between the microinverters and the support rail also makes me shudder.
@@Okurka. say’a it’a in’a Italiano.
I took a shot at the FallPro usage. This is why you should never let anyone record you working. XD
The unpleasant truth about claimed output of the panel - is that it is almost unreachable under normal or even ideal circumstances, because of the infrared heat wavelenghts from the sun. I have 7500W system in ideal conditions, and it has been able to produce 7kWh only few days per year - it's when it is abnormally freezing cold day and super sunny at the same time. The 99% of the time my 7500W system will produce about 5400W max at direct 100% sun light in Phoenix, Arizona.
Funny how my 3kW system routinely got 3kW or more in summer
@@EEVblog wtf? it is interesting indeed! I'm sure you noticed what your LG370N label says under "Standard Test Condition" footnote - Cell temperature = 25C. Is it even possible to keep cell temperature at 25C under direct sunlight?
@@EEVblog would you like to do an experiment? Take a small 25W solar panel, and compare its output under different temperature settings. Air flow... ice bath... perhaps?
Microinverters are so nice. i wish more installers would use them. So easy to expand afterwards and if one fails its cheaper than the whole big inverter going down.
How often do the string inverters fail?
This is the best solar installation video I've seen on TH-cam, thank you Dave!
Looking forward to see the 5 year performance summary for those expanded panels
"WARNING: Hot Surface: To reduce the risk of burns, do not touch."
Hehehehe yeah that'll reduce the risk alright.
I saw this too and wondered what it would take for lawyers to admit that something eliminates the risk of burns. I feel like your bases are covered by not touching it. (Yes, I know that something could get so hot as to radiate heat and burn you -- cooks things really nicely in the oven. But for some reason I don't think they get quite that hot.)
I would have also accepted, "Hot surface: do not touch with remaining hand."
@@JonathanRockway Actually I had a metal tools laying in the sun for 15 minutes and when I picked it up my hand with sizzle of course I dropped it and put some gloves on
Thumbs up for all the guys and gals that do these installs. Most of us work in comfy ac all day long.
They're finding out that the "25 year expected lifespan" on panels was very pessimistic. Given what we're seeing in the field with panels approaching that lifespan, it seems like they're still putting out a heck of a lot of power at 25 years and people are now saying they'll be good for 35 or even 40 years or more.
I'm using panels from 1992, they output 70% of the original power.
@@EngineersFear Yup still far from time to replace and I understand that newer panels should last even longer.
@@John_Ridley well then, that makes the pro nuclear energy people's argument that panels don't last long and that they are going to end up in a landfill as toxic waste kinda a moot point!
There's a second hand market in Australia that is growing due to people upgrading their 15 year old 1.5kw system and the old panels which aren't as powerful as the new versions are still outputting well within spec!
Only time will tell how long they last but bear in mind that they are semiconductors, and like all semiconductor technology if treated properly will last a very long time!
I have transistors that are in the output stage of an amplifier that was built in 1973 still going strong today!
There's vacuum tubes that even older that are still going strong today!
So I feel that if the panels aren't damaged by hail or overheated... They just might last a human lifetime! Only time will tell...
The down point with enphase IQ7+ is that they need an internet connection to be regulated from Inphase servers in order to claim the 5y warranty. My house, here in Greece, has no ground internet connection what so ever.
More over, who knows if Enphase will still be in business in 10 or 20 years? What happens then? Your entire collection of micro inverters turn into bricks or something?
If you walked on a tile roof in the USA, you would hear 'Crunch, Crunch, Crunch' as all the tiles break.
You can tell Milan is genuinely excited about the quality of the panels. He doesn't come across like a trained LG salesman.
Your neighborhood is beautiful look at all those neat trees! Have to visit Aus and NZ someday
Skip NZ
Classic sburban Sydney....created many years ago when the sheep were fat and life was easy. Look at recent developments: Gutter on gutter and concrete everywhere.
Hey Dave Long time viewer and enjoy your content even though it's often over my head. I up until very recently used to install solar in Brisbane. I can definitely say your job looked like it would have sucked to put it lightly. Those poor guys were only smiling on the outside. Terracotta roof, system decommission, system decommission and new system.
lol. Too true, mate.
Yep, wouldn't have been fun, they earn their money. They needed all 7 guys.
Each pannel is 370W and it's dedicated inverter is 290VA I assume 290W as power factor should be 0.99. So maybe better with a big inverter as you lose almost 80W at peak...plus lower efficiency with microinverter.
he got it for free so that's why he wasn't complaining
I just noticed this after a few people mentioned it. Will see what Enphase have to say. The datasheet says suitable for over 400W panels, but then also does say 290VA output max. If that's true that's disappointing.
@@EEVblog And not only that, with microinverters and storage you add a few conversion stages for the storage (ac-> dc-> ac) which will lower efficiency some more.
@@kruppin Most storage systems are not coupled directly to the DC of the panels anyhow.
They are 97% efficient. Not too much to complain about there.
Just updated my solar system as well, went from 180w to 340 watt panels. Looked at the N-phase stuff and decided it wasn't worth the expenditure for me as we have no trees. The only thing I would say is make sure the inverter exceeds your panel output. Most installers will give you an inverter 10-20% smaller than your max panel output. What I have noticed is panels these days are really dam efficient and will easily blow past the recommended smaller inverters max input. It doesn't damage the inverter, it just means the excess is turned into heat and not power.
Hi Dave. Great upgrade. Here in the UK I have had a 4 KW system split between east and west roofs since Nov. 2011. With the feed in tariff and allowing for power used paid for itself Jan 2019. March 2021 a big upgrade to 9.2 KW adding another 16 panels. All now in roof. 2 inverters and one 8.2 KW battery (which will be added to later). Since completion I am now only importing between 0.1 and 0.3 KW per day off the grid and able to charge the Hyundia Kona.
48 minutes of Dave enthusiastically waffling on about the new solar system. I've got my coffee in hand, lets ride.
Countries like Australia should make solar PV installations and air heat pumps, mandatory in new constructions.
Marburg in Germany has made solar mandatory
And mandate housing be affordable too, right?
I think so too but most new home buyers go for PV and reverse cycle ac anyway. Because it make sense over here.
Love Hillsong... and yeah, I'm a EE for over 35 years and techno nerd as well as a long time supporter of EEVBlog... that comment really spoiled the episode for me.
Hi Dave:
Good to see the expansion of the "free energy" system :)
However, I'm curios, most of the micro inverters I've seen have a Step Wave (PWM) output and not a pure sine wave output.... Since it is grid tied system... It does not really matter. But I'd like your expert take on that.... !
Cheers !!
This is definitely my dream, be able to power my house all day and night without having to deal with local electricity company
Cool, what storage do you use?
@@Blasterxp keyword: dream.
The guys had fall protection on, but they never connected their lanyard. That fall protection is useless
It's not useless if it keeps OSHA off their back.
@@johnalexander2349 it is useless if it is not used correctly. So let’s say they fall, and die. You say to OSHA. “They had their fall arrest system on.” OSHA will laugh at u, fine u, and u will be liable for a civil suit.
@@roccorossetti7579 If if if. And if they don't fall?
@@johnalexander2349 it is not “If”. Instead it is “When”.
@@roccorossetti7579 If that was true, there'd be no such thing as a retired construction worker.
The hand-prints on the finished new install...your trademark, Dave? If the Govt. says you gotta pay them to export, will you install a bigger 'power-wall' or the like? Those micro's don't look like they're easy or cheap to replace but it makes sense to have the panels paralleled in case of, as you often said, one fails or gets pooped on! Fantastic, every home should have one! Cheers for letting us see the installation Dave. Keep well, you and the family.
Enphase Envoy is the way to go, also the controller you can interface directly to pick up power usage if you want some real smarts.
Yep, being charged to deliver electricity would push my buttons too.
Right? Like well fuck you guys I'll burn every watt of power I make myself then.
id start selling to the house next door, screw the utilities
From a certain point of view it makes sense. Do you think the power grid grows on trees? The problem though is if they try to charge residents with small installations as if it was another power co-operative providing energy for hundreds of homes.
@@rob_i208 I'm quite sure that connection fees and distribution maintenance fees, etc, etc would remain unchanged. I'm pretty sure that you pay monthly fees even if you don't use any electricity whatsoever. Another item if interest, I'm sure that the cost to buy a unit of electrical energy is much higher than the credit received for a sold unit of electrical energy.
@@bertblankenstein3738 Likewise if I were to open up a 100Mw solar power plant that I'd have to pay some sort of charge to whoever operates the power grid so that I can sell them my electricity.
As you said I'm sure fees in my power bill of me buying power also go towards operating this power grid, especially if I'm not buying my power from the company that operates my grid.
What I'm saying is that there should be some sort of middle ground. Especially residences that sell power during the day and use power during the night you'd think they're already paying their fair share to operate the power grid. However residences that generate enough power that they almost always sell their capacity to the grid and never pay anybody money should have some percentage of their profits go towards operating the grid.
Agh! That junction box is a bit how-ya-doing!
I suspect that Dave's just trolling at this point.
Nope, that's all apparently par for the course in 'ustralia...
That's a pretty typical Australian meter box.
This is Australia, mate.
The panel's 41.80V open-circuit voltage is spec'd at 25C, but at colder temperatures such as 0C it will be -25C times that panel's temperature coefficient of -0.26% for an additional 1.625V in cold weather. This can be appreciably on high cell count panels and/or long strings.
I have 42 370 Watt panels going on my roof in about 8 weeks ($39.9K USD system and install price). It won't pay off in my lifetime, but it make me feel good.
46:30 Might want to clean the fingerprints off for maximum efficiency.
Legrand breakers ! 👍 The best ! Hello to your French viewers 🇫🇷
I got mine two years ago. My mains cable came preconfigured with a "tap" for the microinverters so there were no splices in the cable on the roof. Thanks for sharing.
Interesting switchboard there: rewireable fuse and old meter alongside the solar components.
Wow... from all the previous roof shots, I was under the illusion that your house is in the middle of nowhere :D
It is. Sydney is *no where* that people want to live. 🤭
@@josephking6515 it's probably why a lot of people are moving from Sydney and moving to Melbourne...
I mean, have you ever seen their roads? It makes no sense 😂.... Every single time you go out for a drive, you have a high chance of never making it back home LoL... As long as you remember to head south first if you want to go north LoL.
@@PeterMilanovski Mate, Melbourne roads are not that much better either. I don't know why the stupid governments don't borrow more money they need at these interest rates and fix all and add more infrastructure that is needed or even desired for the future. It will create jobs and fix up the neglect that all govts have been responsible for. Shame the present clown had to far cup the FTTP NBN though. 🤬
@@josephking6515 road conditions are one thing and that's something that you can definitely say that is due to neglect but Sydney roads! Who is responsible for waking up the person who designed that catastrophe?
I'm sure that you are aware, most of the roads that are being put in at the moment had already been decided since the 70's if not earlier! I would have thought by now that Sydney would have had enough time to say "hang on a minute mate! There's something very wrong with our roads! Maybe we should sit down and have a good look at it again"..
We used to have a freeway exit on the right side many years ago but thankfully we got rid of it! But Sydney still has a few the last time that I was up there, imagine sticking to the left expecting to get of and at the last minute you spot it on the other side of the road!!! Yeah, not today F#¢ker! Better luck next time!
Whether it's this clown, the last clown, the next clown! It's all the same! Scomo was a gonner after the bushfires but he kinda stepped up for covid and people have largely forgotten about the shitfuckery he got up to during the bushfires.. I'm glad that he didn't do what trump did.. Australian history shows that the Aussie Polly's have always done right by the people during pandemic time's! The only people whining were the people who don't know their own countries history! We have all been through it before except for the fact that you and I weren't there to experience it first hand. Just as the Spanish flue influenza of 1918, Australia acted quickly with the lockdown's and kept the deaths to a minimum!
I don't know about you but for me it's almost like it never happened! So much for all those people who claimed that things were going to be different! Oh and let's not forget all the 5G nutter's... Where are they all now? Probably planning their next cell tower burning LoL...
Anyway, I really do like Sydney... But their road system really drove me crazy! They were working on it last time I was there and hopefully it's a lot better by now... I have to check in on it the next time I'm up that end...
@@PeterMilanovski You might want to revise your ScoMo comments re Covid in light of the past couple of months (it is January 2022 now).
How does a 290VA inverter on a 370W panel add up?
In Germany we are charged for for using our self-produced electricity (for systems > 30kW). Still feed-in tariffs though. Of course coal power plants can use their self-produced electricity free of charge (pumps and stuff). Friggin fossils
I've recommended LG Panels to a friend because after a massive amount of research they are no doubt the BEST ! 🤳👍 Philip from Bowdon in Cheshire 🇬🇧
Have had a 13.5kW Enphase system running 17 months. LOVE IT! Net Zero, as my electric supplier banks my exported kWh.
I worked with major solar farm "group". They would only touch branded Japanese & Korean panels.
price 1/3 of a Teslawall pr kwh
I'm sure they were trying to work the adage: Quality doesn't cost, it pays.
1:26 Yep, sounds like something a Government would do. Penalising you for helping to supplement critical national infrastructure they've probably not maintained all that well 🤦
That's what I thought too. That's so anti anticipatory. Why not motivate the private sector to build the infrastructure. From what I know Australia has a big coal lobby which will probably make sure that any renewable energy stuff will be hampered as much as possible.
I suspect that maybe their power companies are starting to be less profitable with so many people producing solar energy. So in order to keep the business from dying, they need to charge private producers. It makes no sense, but I'm guessing it's a bit different from EU and NA where we need that extra generation for the grid to meet demands and so private producers are still paid.
@@Fluvance Load balancing and production balancing is really important too. With so much solar on rooftops and _currently_ no way for the grid to control feed in, there can be oversupply. The grid basically needs to be redesigned to be more tolerant of sporadic production.
@@_BangDroid_ yeah, unfortunately not a lot of people understand that
The current RW Australian hates solar & loves coal, so they love to penalise people for doing the right thing.
I have my 6kW system facing north, east and west (2 strings). Went that way because I have been working from home since 2007, so I get all day generation with the system very rarely going below 5kW for most of the day. (5kW is max here in WA to ensure you still get the FIT, etc...).
Put my system in in 2015 as a 3.3kW (with a 5kW inverter) then later added the east/west string in 2017 to take it to the full 6kW max that the 5kW Fronius Primo would take.
Also got the Fronius smart meter installed with the 2nd lot, best investment I ever made :)
Way to go i did the same.
I also have Enphase. The microinverters in the US are 240V. Most homes have 240V. We split the phase so each phase to neutral is 120V. There's also a phone app for the Enphase. I've had mine running for 5 years with no issues.
Yeah you beat me to the correction.
Pff! Those you tubers, getting all the good stuff for free! 🙄
Get as much as you can!!! 😁👍
@@Okurka. totally worth it!
*Everybody* still benefits if somebody else gets solar.
However, there may be short term exceptions for those working in the fossil fuel industry and politicians owned by them, but we're in this for the long haul.
@@Okurka. You like breathing clean air and drinking clean water and having a liveable climate? Everybody pays much more for the damage to those systems than paltry green subsidies, while the fossil fuel industry gets *5.3 trillion* USD in subsidies every year.
You should be outraged at that, not at the benefits that solar panels bring everyone.
@@Okurka. What pollution is that? Melting sand to make silicon?
All aspects of solar panel production from mining, refining, transportation, commissioning and recycling can all be done using renewable energy, without a drop of fossil fuels needed anywhere in that lifecycle, perhaps with the exception of lubrication.
Yes, I have no kids, and built my own EV.
And you have no counter argument whatsoever.
@@Okurka. recycled 18650s saved from landfill.
I wish you build a battery storage module, so you dont send it back on the grid, but use it later that day. Aka teslawall, but home made.
Yes, that would be an interesting project. He could then be immune to the grid going down.
Lithium batteries are expensive for the amount of energy they store they also don't live all that long.
The new liquid metal batteries and the zinc flow batteries look like a better answer. Both types are basically brought back to the new condition after each charge/discharge cycle.
Dave already marked his new panels with his signature hand print! Coyprighted until the sun don't shine!
;-)
Excellent. We are going solar this year and are using the Enphase micro-inverters
how is the RF noise from the micro inverter's? here they r starting to have a LOT of problems with that. they have put airfield radar and communication out of service.
Link to this? I have worked on this equipment, I find that hard to believe.
@@aussiegruber86 you have worked wit this type of installation and do not know of the RF noise issue? ONE micro inverter can stay below the guidelines. a handfull of them do not. and of all solar installation's doen in Europa only 33% was under the threshold. the LED bulbs is a big problem as well.. when you turn on your light the DAB radio go down.
www.elinstallatoren.se/2020/05/darfor-stor-solcellerna/
Nice dirty handprints on the new panels. I thought washing down the new panels also would have been a standard commissioning task.
The IQ7+ inverters max at about 295W, so peak production of your system will be 4.130 KW.
I just noticed this after a few people mentioned it. Will see what Enphase have to say. The datasheet says suitable for over 400W panels, but then also does say 290VA output max. If that's true that's disappointing.
@@EEVblog The solar panels peak power can be rarely achieved and the power that is clipped is just the top of the "bell" so I think the looses will be not that much. Anyways Enphase has now a 350W inverter, the IQ7A.
@@Aleuli73 That is probably why they offloaded their leftover stock of the old model to Dave :-)
Now he can buy the new ones at list price :-)
I have a 10k system with the Enphase Micro inverters and so far I have great results. The web based app is very good and gives lots of details and history right down to the panel level. I have been in a cherry picker all day (tomorrow too) today topping trees that block morning and afternoon sun. Only 2 small electric bills this year, hopefully cutting down these last few (25ish) trees will mean no electric bills......until more grow back..... One drawback they need to see utility power before they will work so if the power goes out you get nothing...
370W solar panels but the microinverters are limited to max 290VA on the AC output. I guess the inverters can not drop in price as fast as solar panels so cables, inverters and mounting racks start to become the bottleneck dropping the price.
I just noticed this after a few people mentioned it. Will see what Enphase have to say. The datasheet says suitable for over 400W panels, but then also does say 290VA output max. If that's true that's disappointing.
@@EEVblog It is not unusual for the PV panel or array to be higher rated than the inverter. The panel is 370W STC but (Standard Test Conditions) means panels are at +25C and they get 1000W/m^2 from the sun so direct sun at noon. For the panels to be at +25C ambient will need to be around -10C so not very common at your location thus panels will be producing less at peak than that STC rating.
Over a full year that extra energy lost due to inverters limiting the output to 290VA (305W needed from panels to cover the inverter losses) will be so insignificant maybe just 1 or 2% that it will not make sense to pay extra for say 350VA inverters.
And this 370W panels will produce significantly more energy than say just having 305W panels to perfectly match the inverter.
@@electrodacus Agree that a new IQ7A (349VA) would be overkill, but a IQ7X (315VA) would have been a better match for these panels than the IQ7+.
@@billjohnson3344 The IQ7+ (290VA) is $174 The IQ7X is specifically designed for 96 cell panels while the IQ7A (349VA) will be overkill and significantly more expensive $204
The $40 extra can buy you another 80W of solar PV
They recommend the IQ7+ for 60 and 72 cell panels in the range of 235W to 440W so the 370W is well within that range while the IQ7A that is newer is recommended for 60,66 and 72 cell panels (66 cell panels started to appear as intermediary) and that can handle 350W to 460W panels so the 370W will have been on the lower range thus overkill.
I think IQ7+ was a good decision for this panels.
@@electrodacus Agree the other microinverter flavors are more expensive. IQ7+ is not $174 at volume prices, but point taken. Enphase actually doesn't have a good offering for these panels as like you say the 'X' is typically used for the higher voltage panels, and the 'A' is even more $. But Dave should have been given the choice of using the 'A', as this whole thing seems like it is a surprise to him. As he is about efficiency, he may have made that choice even though a bit more expensive (as he did for high quality solar panels). Installer and Enphase should have been more forthcoming that his 5kW array is really a 4kW array with the equipment chosen for the job. What they recommend is just because that's what they have, but 78% clipping is not normal design target - even understanding temperature and non-STC.
Weird that your wife wants to hide the panels; i'd want to show them off. Different kinds of people i guess.
She likes the tiles. Many other houses in the street have their panels visible and it's not a great look to be honest.
@@EEVblog there could also be a risk of theft ?
BTW is there any hailstorms in ausy land ?
@@EEVblog Women, right? Personally, I don't like the look of tiles either. Aesthetically, I think tiles vs panels are equally ugly. All things considered, I think that panels win just because they're cooler.
@@fortheregm1249 they are literally on TH-cam do you think they are really hidden ^^
Wife engineering. It is a thing men must deal with worldwide.
If you are removing screws, you want the tip to strip before the screw. So, the tips selected to remove old screws should be made from softer metal then the screw installed. Tips can be changed at the ready.
Love the running commentary and the comments about you wondering at how sealed they are (and it shows "They're fully potted.") It makes it really fun! Thanks for sharing with us!
Edit: And I think the data plate at 29:15 that shows 201026 for the date may be YY/MM/DD so it would be the 26th of October, 2020 which is completely likely as they're not bleeding edge but still close... That aside, you're by and large one of my favorite TH-camrs from Down Under. Have a great day, and much love from Washington State in the USA.
And as to the double isolator system, it would make sense to cut off any power closer to the point of generation (the panels) whenever possible to prevent electrocution hazards.
And firmware update right after install would make me feel good knowing it is fully up to date.
1:26... So sell your surplus to your neighbors.... There is no way I'd get charged to increase the energy company's output or just keep it to yourself and store it.
18:31... Don't like the rat's nest.
I'll keep it for myself :-D
Can’t sell to your neighbors without grid usage. You best believe you are getting shat on the moment you create your own (sub) grid because we can’t have that now.
@@EEVblog You need a big arse battery! ;)
I wonder how many YY/MM/DD comments we'll see? I have counted six so far, including mine.
The enphase monthly summary figures email appears in the frankly insane US MM-DD-YYYY format, even for systems installed outside of the US.
It really makes my head hurt!
Maybe if Dave takes the piss in a video they might fix it, they haven't done anything since I reported it in their community 4 months ago.
Well done! These new LG modules have many thinner busbars that are also tubular shaped. This kind of grid is supposed to leave more surface area available for photon absorption and the tubular shape is supposed to reflect some scattered photons back down to the module instead of reflecting it back as a normal busbar would. This and packing the cells closer together and reducing the chamfer are some of the ways you can increase the declared module efficiency from say 19.8% to 20.3% or get a 21.8% to 22.0%.
What? These panels are absorbing photon's? Are you sure? I would love to actually see a photon let alone one being absorbed.... As far as I'm aware, no one has actually seen one yet so if you have, then I would be very interested in how you have achieved what no one else has been able to do... Otherwise it's just a theory which basically means that it's just someone's idea of what could be but it really could be anything!
Theoretical Science is just junk science... Let's just stick with what we actually know and stop using the theories like they are fact's...
@@PeterMilanovski Have you seen your brain? Perhaps you don't have one! You can't POSSIBLY know it's there unless you open up and see it!
Interesting as always👍👍
Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us👍😀
Not misses Evblog approved 😅
"they had these ones lying around" whaaat ....
800K subscribers, mate. ;)
A friend of ours runs his solar panels in series so quite a high DC voltage, something like 200V dc. His panels are on a corrugated steel sheet roof and the rest of the building is wood. That makes a conductive roof on top of insulating walls. If you tough the roof you get a good shock off it. I think earthing the panels racks is a good idea.
My 5KW system (19 panels, 285 W each) has been producing an average of 17KWH/day over the last 1200 days. My latitude is 44.8 degrees North. I do clean the snow off in the winter. It has reduced my electric bill by an average of $53US/month. I like that.
"No issues whatsoever" for 8 years.
I guess Dave forgot about the metroit impact shattering a panel... 🤣
Oh, yeah, and that...
Dave, should have paved your driveway with them. Much better street appeal.
Also put LEDs inside to change markings. Freaking Solar Roadways FTW! ;)
Wife would not be happy. Happy wife, happy life.
I just had a quote done on an 18 panel system over here in Perth, WA. It was around $8K for the cheaper Risen Solar Technology panels and a cheaper inverter (SoFar). An extra $1K for the SMA inverter. I'm waiting on getting quotes back on someone who can do LG panels here. I just wanted to see the difference in price vs performance. There's a fair bit of information online about how much performance LG improves vs someone like Risen - but there isn't much on the price ROI that I could easily find. Over here we get approx $3K back from the government.
I am always impressed by how much of the world takes workplace safety so seriously. I'm in Ohio. I had some work done on my chimney. The guy had a tee-shirt and shorts on. He did not need his ladder, he climbed up my TV tower. Mexico is amazing. I saw guys working at 75 feet eating lunch sitting on the edge of a new floor on a high-rise. Footwear consisted of flip-flops. Headgear was a baseball cap.
not putting panels where you want is how you stay married
"Not a lick of trouble," apart from the time something fell out of the sky and smashed a panel. And the time there was a single point failure that took down the whole system.
I know you've just added a bunch of air conditioners, but one decently cheap storage option is to just store heat-pumped cold water to use for air conditioning. 2kl of water usable between 5 and 16 degrees celsius works out to 25kWh of storage. If your heat pump is working at a COP of 4 that could sink ~6kWh of energy if you suddenly aren't load-matching, and would be usable overnight.
That's equivalent of running a 18000btu system for 5 hours at full tilt.
Ah, the dreadfull aluminium corrosion. same problem on cars also, a steel bolt in aluminium bracket/bushing and often must cut or drill it out and replace the whole bushing instead of just disassemble it..
Love how everyone have a harness and you wander around them without any (wish my roof was this flat when walking on it, mine is ~45° and glaced concrete)