Just celebrated our 21st anniversary 2 days ago. It was not until the last 9 months that I started to realize she is never happy. Every day is the same as the one before. Realizing she was not CAPABLE of being happy no matter what I did for her was devastating. I have sacrificed years with family and friends to give her what she claimed would make her happy only for it to all be a waste of time. Up until my epiphany, I always blamed myself for ruining her life, making her miserable, screwing everything up, never quite doing things the way I should have for her or generally falling short of her expectations. She has disparaged all of my past friendships. my family is kept away. I working ungodly hours to try to support our family (I'm the only who has worked throughout our marriage) so I have a tenuous relationship with our 4 kids. If I do see things they are doing wrong and call them out, it erupts into an argument between my wife and I. I have spent years trying to figure out what was wrong with me and genuinely believing I was at fault. It was so frustrating trying to tear myself apart to figure out why I wasn't GETTING IT. Her narcissistic roots are generational. her grandmother was that way. Her mother is that way. She is that way. my youngest daughter is that way. I have poured myself out since I was 19 years old to make her life better only to find out it could not be done. The only consolation is that at least I know what I'm dealing with and will stop internalizing her blame. Some examples of her manipulation tactics: 1. Sarcastically taking blame for "everything" rather than genuinely accepting that she has done anything wrong. 2. I'm sorry YOU feel that way. 3. Siding with my kids and even her mother against me. 4. She diminishes and even mocks my interests, ideas and beliefs especially when we are arguing. She is likely to ridicule them and pour out contempt that I even think they have any real value. 5. She is very loving and affectionate when we are by ourselves but as soon as someone else is around (namely her mother since my wife has no friends either), I might as well not even be around unless she needs me to do something for her (which tends to be 80% of our conversations). Having no one to even talk to about this has helped maintain her hold on me so the isolation tactic has been effective. I mean look at me, I'm venting a lifetime of frustration to strangers on a 2 year old TH-cam video just because I finally found someone who could define articulate why I have been feeling this way.
I feel your pain. I am in a six year relationship with a covert but have no kids. I am trying to exit but it is not easy as I have don't have many friends anymore and we live together. I only realised once we moved in together 2 years ago. I keep on thinking it will change but I know deep down it won't she is to self centred to change.
Been in exactly the same type of situation for 25 years. She wasn't always this way. Not that I remember. She used the same tactics you described. Her mother was very much in the picture and she was a negative and pessimistic personality to be sure. She would disparage me openly in front of my kids. She helped to isolate my children and she helped to alienate them from me. All while living in my home with us. I haven't seen my dogs, kids or the inside of my home in 7 years. This is becoming epidemic. Your definitely not alone. Be grateful you have your life and your freedom and try to move on. I've been researching this topic for 7 years. In those 7 years I've met men that have not only been alienated from their kids and lost everything they worked their whole lives for but also lost their freedom due to false accusations of violence. One guy I talked to did 4 years in state prison and later took his own life. My wife had an affair the entire time we were together and I just found out. She used me like a tool. She also accused me of violence that I did not commit. Stuck in jail I had to take a plea deal to get out of jail. Worst mistake of my life. Get away. Stay away. Don't look back. She won't change. But she will change you. Sounds like she already has. You can find yourself again. It's difficult. But you can. Good luck.
@@maragirl1658 yeah...I understand that's all you can do. I really do. But how long before that situation becomes so frustrating and heartbreaking for you that it begins to change your character? How long before it gets you caught up in it and you suffer consequences? I don't think we should stand by and watch the downward spiral. Because it affects and infects every person it comes into contact with. It needs to be called out and treated. This behavior has permeated our society at every level and it's thriving. I think it's wrong. But I do realize you cannot make people change. You should be able to kick their ass when they take a piece of your life or your heart or whatever. Eye for an eye. They are all cowards and bully's and they keep winning and getting away with it and their numbers have increased exponentially. Because they didn't get their punch in the face or the gut when they should have. They haven't ever taken their lumps. And they are deathly afraid of it and avoid accountability like the plague. This problem is not going to go away or resolve itself. They are going to ruin us all. Suck us dry. It's just my opinion. I'm sure going around punching people in the mouth wouldn't help either. It might make me feel better tho. 😂🎯
I married one - and never saw it for over 15 years - the mask slips completely off - she ruined my life - took my son - pushed me to the point of suicide - I have nothing but hatred for this person (but still want to love them) - PLEASE protect yourself - it could be your life at stake more than you know!
U know all about these traumatized children (mother or father wounds)..they seduce u with charm & sex ...then your trapped...and since they have this Jezebel spirit and listen to demons...they know how hurt you...in a deeeeep,way ....and pull u back in with sweetness ..niceness..trama bonded...40 years for me before I woke up...and now, still with her, because I'm undone...sick and broke....praying for deliverance for me & her
My daughter is in the process of divorcing a vulnerable narcissist. To Dan.....please hang in there. I know what you mean when you say she ruined your life. I warned my daughter not to marry the creep who relentlessly pursued and even stalked her. He has ruined ALL of our lives. For innocent children have their lives in tormoil.
@@Carbon_Fiber That's just not true at all. You are a man who doesn't have intimate partner relationships with men so how the heck would you know? Statistically there are higher rates of diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder amongst men than women even though culturally the traits are more acceptable in men than in women. Women are more vulnerable to intimate partner intimidation and violence but violence is often not necessary as the threat will do. Women are still often brought up in a way which makes us more likely to take a back seat to men and end up with more of the household or childcare work, on top of working a full time job. You may think you've not come across women who are not narcissistic but you may just never have been attracted to those women because your attachment style was informed by a childhood relationship with a narcissist.
1. The wife is highly neurotic 1:49 2. wife had a history of inconsistent discipline 4:51 3. wife is highly manipulative 6:31 4. wife's self-esteem is contingent upon others - including the husband 7:19 5. the wife is emotionally distant 8:09 6. The wife appears to be shaken to her core when criticized by the husband 9:53 7. the wife has difficulty maintaining a positive self-image 11:15 8. the wife's insight is compromised 13:22 9. the wife puts the phrase taking something personally into an entirely new perspective 14:22 10. envy is converted into shadenfreude 15:31
I was married to a covert narcissist for 20 years, and just about everything in your video matches her. Initially I had no idea, I am into tech and science so psychology for me was in the next multiverse. And yes, according to her I was always at fault, I was never good enough, I was obese when I was just overweight, I was 'a carcass' and I do 3km ocean swims, I would hardly spend any money on myself and yet she would call me a financial abuser, I would spent almost every evening renovating the house for the family and she would tell it meant nothing because she could just get any handyman to do it, and more... She left, and from the day after I felt a weight had fallen off my back! Watching videos like yours makes me realise I was not crazy, or imagining things, so many thanks for this eye opening video!
My ex girlfriend was a vulnerable narcissist. There is no decision in my entire 30 years of living on this planet that I'm more happy about than that one when I decided to break up with her. It was the start of my new self improvement journey.
@@arlilani If you think you need help from someone you should consider going to a therapist who's specialized in narcissism, or talk about it with a real good friend.
@@arlilani I felt exactly the same as you. I ended up cutting her narcissistic supply off and she left me. I didn't relaise that I had cut off her supply at the time but after some research and discussions I've had with a therapist it seems I did and it was the right thing to do. Go and chat with a therapist I wanted to for months before the end of my relationship but at the time no single event was 'bad enough' to justify going and now realise that if I was feeling that way about my partner and already doing the research on TH-cam that IS justification for going to therapy. Good luck out there.
@@arlilani The starting stage is hardest, **ignore the urge of staying with them**, take some distance of few weeks or months, change your atmosphere, you will feel better you can also check videos of Dr. Ramani ,Put your emotional stability your first priority. Last thing to say "Never Give Up".
Yes yes yes to this comment. I’m 31 and going through a separation right now. Finding out this information is beyond mind blowing. Here’s to this next stage in our journey.
My son studied, got a Bachelor’s in law enforcement, an MBA and became an officer- he works a 12 hour day, comes home and cleans, cooks, takes the dog out and puts the toddlers to bed , reads to them but he is the „loser“ according to his wife. She drove a teenager boyfriend to suicide. My accomplished son is aware that he might be in serious danger and told me if anything should happen we should ask police to look into it. What a loveless way to live.
@@lauraescayg7516 --The courts will never side with the father because the courts won't recognize narcissistic personality as a danger. The court will mandate both spousal and child support. He will then be out of the house, will have his wages garnished 50% and then being absent from home, he will be unable to assist/protect his own children from their self absorbed mother. That is why is he staying; he knows how the system works.
Thanks, u are a very good personality disorder explainer. I’m a psychiatric nurse for last thirty years. My father is a vulnerable narcissist I do believe. Listening to your lectures, I have gained much self awareness and confidence. I am grateful 💛
Apparently your profession does not include free therapy or even friendly insights from your coworkers/employers. No insult intended if it sounds that way. I suppose keeping work and home life is the professional way. I guess there isn't much one can do about it anyway, when it's another person. Except gain clarity and understanding that the problem isn't you. It's good to know the behavior has specific signs. There would be much less misery in n the world if these things were taught in high school. In order to avoid relationships with them.
Seriously, I am mind blown!! My mother is a narcissist and he was spot on when it came to describing her and NOW he is seriously on point when it comes to me. I am a narcissist. I just realized 1 year ago that I did not want to be this person anymore and I am on my way to changing myself for the better. I wish he had videos on how to not be a narcissist.
I’m in the same boat ❤️ it’s hard, but I’ve been fighting it for about 3 years since I realized/accepted that I’m a vulnerable narcissist. I’ve found that cultivating genuine intimacy is HUGE in recovering, because it puts you on the same level as the other person in your mind and allows you to feel more genuine empathy for them. So for me, opening up about being a narc to a therapist and to my boyfriend have been huge since now when they “accept me”/“love me”, I believe them fully and I also can love them more. And I’m more able to see my real self because they help me clarify my self image when I ask them about it. It’s SO hard, but it’s worth it ❤️
Social contagion is a sad twist of fate. I'm in a similar situation, and as Ray above mentions, truly authentic relationships are among the best ways of bringing yourself out of vulnerable narcissism. Hope you're improving in this endeavour.
Narcissists have no insight, you have insight so you're well on your way. I think it's the fact we emulate behaviours not that at out core we are truly narcissistic, if we were we wouldn't be here wouldn't be questioning this and wouldn't have insight. I developed rages based on n.father. I was young but it's not the true me, I'm highly empathetic and sensitive. I don't abushers to bolster my ego or self esteem or have a false self. We just learnt ways of being but that's not out core. If it's a core trait it never changes even with information. At my core is empathy, I think it's genetics and environment that shapes ppl 🙋🙋
I'm overwhelmed. Once again you have given clarity to a diagnosis and a word that I believe is overused in our society. I've never heard a professional explain it with such clarity. After going through an insane childhood, witnessing my closest ally, my bother, comitt suicide because of narcissistic abuse. My mother is extremely abusive. In all aspects. The emotional abuse was torture. At least when we got hit with something we understood what happened. The abuse from a narcissist is truly unimaginable. I watched these Dynamics play out between my mom and dad. My dad gave up on his life , got sick & passed away. Knowing my mother was neurotic was a given in our family. I wholeheartedly believe children need to know that it's not their fault it can make all the difference in saving a life. My brother needed to know. It wasn't his fault. When you grow up and that type of atmosphere you are taught it's your fault.
@@reelmermaid8844 Thank you. I am grateful for people that show they are good. It is a gift to see good and that compassion exists it is exactly what helps heal the hurt. It makes it possible to see the light that helps getting through the dark moments . Seeing kindness does exist and it is possible to break the cycle to really change. Thank you!
Yes. My dad recently passed and my mom is a vulnerable narc. I went no contact with her afterwards. This is so accurate to their relation and explains so much
@@lar8200 My Mum is a v narc and may Dad passed 3 years ago. (he is finally at peace after a life time of my Mum) I have become the person she spews venom at now. I know I have 'problems' caused by her as well as witnessing the day to day life of my Mum and Dad. I'm 50 now , and still can't get over it :(
I thought my mom was just a straight up narcissist... Then the next video was this and wow! It's like an arrow in my heart because it is so accurate. My mom also was super inconsistent never knew what action was going to get what response. Chaos
Thank you so much for finally someone talking and explaining vulnerable (covert) narcissism in-depth, with examples and what is actually happening in the core of the narcissistic personality. Vulnerable is so much hard to detected and so much dangerous and no one is talking about it. Grandiose I can spot from 10 mountains, but vulnerable can be everyone with a little or much of introversion and more emotional. Please do more on vulnerable with exact everyday examples and not only in romantic relationships but in different varieties of relationships in society, especially family (mother). I like that you are explaining in a more professional manner, not so much in (like other authors) a conversational style.
I saw this in May 2022. It was the biggest lightbulb moment I have ever had. It explained all the strange weird and hyper frustrating stuff I lived with for years. Thanks Todd, it put the wheels of disconnect and self awareness needed to get away from the mother of my children. I now don’t feel like I’m going insane anymore.
Well it's now middle of June 2022. I hope you are doing better. Hey we're all friggin crazy but we're not always all nuts. It's that fine line between some good Tom Petty songs and some not good Tom Petty songs. And we know there is no such thing as a bad Tom Petty song -- so see -+ you are doing OK. Saving grace. Take care of yourself though p. seriously.n please be safe. We need you. Gail in Central Florida June 13, 2022
They all got exposed after covid. It’s call victory over the fruit of evil. Stay strong and believe in yourself. GOD loves you, your kids need you. Stay strong, calm and peaceful, don’t react to their attacks. You’re always protected. I know exactly what you are talking about, my case with the narcissist was like walking through hell. Believe me, we will be on top at the end. Peace man!
1. Highly Neurotic (1:50) 2. History of Inconsistent Discipline (4:51) 3. Highly Manipulative (6:31) 4. Self Esteem is Contingent Upon Others, Including the Husband (7:18) 5. Emotionally Distant (8:10) 6. Shaken to her Core when Criticized by the Husband (9:52) 7. Difficulty Maintaining a Positive Self image (11:15) 8. The Wife's Incite is Compromised (13:22) 9. Puts the Phrase "Taking Something Personal" into a Whole New Perspective (14:22) 10. Envy is Converted into Schadenfreude(taking joy in others pain) (15:31)
You need to really get a hold of yourself and consider this like a hurricane or some natural disaster if you've manifested this person it is because you need to look at whatever you've been avoiding and letting it ruin your life. Every deficit is now highlighted. It will be simple to work on yourself. They never loved you. They don't know what that is. They will not be happy until you are destroyed. They will only take. Never give. Accept these things- you lived a contrived fantasy - it was not real. You didn't not Lose anything with the relationship ending. You now have a chance to prioritize your life in a way that will have meaning before it is too late. Sure your ego hurts and yes. You've been in an emotional 6 car pike up. Get appropriate care your old self is gone. Look forward. And - living well is the best revenge. God bless all of you struggling to find your way. The pain will diminish. You have a lot of power to take back. Get cracking!
Exactly my beloved ex-wife. Such a beautiful spirit twisted like a pretzel by demons. I love her and I know she carries a deadly evil. I can’t help her. And it is ever between her and God.
40 years with my covert narsicist Jezebel wife.. one year awake...oh the pain...its goes from a bad dream to a nightmare (once u wake up) now i understand why I stayed so long...childhood trauma of unworthiness...and more ...this relationship physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially smashed me ...praying for a way out..still with her...would love to campare notes sometime if possible..
This was a real trip to listen to. I recently broke up with a girlfriend of about five years, and it was insane to think to myself “yep, yep, yep, yep,” as you listed the characteristics. She fulfills almost all of these criterion. She used to completely shut down on my and emotionally close off, and when I attempted to help or understand, she expected me to automatically do so without her having to explain anything.
how many times did she say "if you love someone, you do not need to be told what they need, you will KNOW" and when I would say "huh, what I always heard in the Program and in therapy was 'nobody is a mind reader'. So, please, just tell me how you feel, what you think, and what you want." then she would go over the same complaint for the 12th time about some thoughtless thing I said or did that hurt her feelings, that I apologized for 12 times, and explained my point of view, which she never understood or remembered, and ask/tell me "I thought you said I should tell you how I feel, what I think, and what I want ?! I guess you aren't interested, it's not important to you."
@@myotherusername9224 they expect us to read their minds and feel what they feel. But they have zero interst in what we feel or think. My ex could talk for 1-2 hours about her obsession, but became anoyd/irritated and angry when i talk about my interst for 10 minutes 😂. Their lack of empathy is realy mindbogling and disgusting 🤯. Looking back at it. It all seems insane. They are so cruel. They talk about love and care, but gives nothing in return. Simple things like enjoying a dinner or taking a walk is impossible for the narcissist. They are just a waste of time
My ex-wife is a covert narcissist, and after 14 years, she asked me for a divorce, and began to show all these characteristic (though truth be told she had already exhibited some of them throughout, I only dismissed it thinking it was expected selfishness and attention dependence due to her being a single child). The nine months that followed her unexpected and callous announcement were without question a living hell that she sadistically and unnecessarily put me through. I thank GOD for not only getting me out of their so quickly, but for allowing me to move on with my life.
@@maafg4435 I agree. The fact is, I didn't even have a problem with her "not loving me anymore" or in "wanting a divorce" even though both are not consistent to the Judeo-Christian values you claimed she had also, which is why I even married her, because she claimed that she held the institution of marriage as sacred as I. Which did not turn out to be the case. Now, don't get me wrong. I am not claiming that it would not have hurt me--sure, but I am a reasonable and understanding man--at least I endeavor to be. I consider every perspective, not just my own. So, it was not that she ended our marriage, but HOW she ended it that bothered me, and I believe was not necessary. I mean, had she not tried to gaslight me and make me out to be the "bad guy" to all our family and friends, it would not have been as painful as it was. There was nothing worse than to have family (my sisters, and mostly of her side of the family) and friends (many the ones I met through her) turned on me on a dime--not even wanting to hear my side--they all took her side and judged me a "monster" "toxic" and "master manipulator." Even before I knew what was going on, and reached out to them to help us--they either attacked me, or ignored (blocked) me. I had never felt so isolated and defeated in my life. ONLY GOD was with me. And I thank GOD--and not figuratively either--for helping me during those seven months, especially on the night last year when in her crazed-out state, she had her cousin called the police on me (domestic disturbance call) while I slept. I mean it, It was ONLY by the grace of GOD that the police did not side with her (given the show she and her cousin made that caused them to greet me with guns drawn), but they quickly saw through her and her cousin's lies (I did not realize to what extent until I obtained both the 911 call, and police cam (4) videos. So, instead of arresting me, and forcing me out of our home--as my ex-wife and her cousin (both narcissist) wanted them to do, the police told her to get somethings and find somewhere else to stay "until things cooled down." That was the last night my ex-wife stayed in our house until I moved on five months later.
Shadenfrude ! That’s why my narcissistic ex and her narcissistic daughter always took such pleasure, making fun of and laughing at me, any time I made even an insignificant error! Thank you!!!!
EXCELLENT! As I've witnessed, heavy on the manipulation and passive aggression. Childlike expectations of partner's ability to read her mind and cater to needs, and tantrums when unmet. Silent treatment/avoidance also a big part, often when sparked by misperception (erroneously perceived insult). Great material, and practical resource for understanding, and thence all positives that flow therefrom. Thanks, Doctor Grande. Big Help!!!
That sounds like Enmeshment. When the person expects you to match their emotional state. Or help regulate their emotions for them. Or be their venting outlet. Or all 4 at the same time! They're mad, you have to be mad too. Your happy but they are'nt? Uh oh, they wont like that! How dare you be a seperate individual with your own internal reality. 😔
Wow. This was my mom. When she played the victim, she became a martyr. She was very good at telling if someone was lying or not. She was extremely entitled. She was the Queen Bee of the household. The staunch Matriarch that could not be disobeyed. When one of us 5 kids disobeyed her, that sibling was ostracized, and made to feel lower than dirt. She exerted so much control over everything, everyone in the family, except my father, whom I speculate was a Grandiose Narcissist. I honestly don't know how I escaped becoming a Narcissist myself! I think I may have some traits, but I can feel compassion and empathy for others. And I am more introspective than most. Still, I worry...
Ha, as I read this comment I had to check the name to make sure it wasn't one of my siblings. very similar scenario when I was growing up. I was confused at the overall attention and admiration she got from everyone. Because of how cruel and cold she could be. but because she was always helping others and was available to others, everyone gravitated towards her. She had a lot of good, but also flipped the switch so easily.
Take heart. It is said that if you are worried that you are a narcissist, you are not a narcissist. After 15 years with somebody who sounds very much like with this video describes and also has some borderline traits, I can assure you that I was accused of being a narcissist. I had myself tested. I mean, it’s horrifying, isn’t it? You don’t want to be like that. So, you want to get yourself tested so that you can start receiving some kind of therapy to make you stop being a narcissist. well, anyway, my psychologist actually laughed when I asked her if she thought I was a narcissist. Apparently, they are unable to even contemplate the possibility that they might be a narcissist.
This video helped me so much after I was discarded by my NXW. It happened across my feed as I attempted to distract myself from the grief by watching TH-cam videos, and this opened my eyes and helped me to move on. I'm now in a much healthier relationship, and aside from residual anxiety, I am happy.
Well, you described my disastrous 8 year marriage to a T! I have never been through something so mind blowing and destructive in my life! We have been separated/divorced for 2 years now and it literally took me about a year and a half to start feeling like myself again. And when you described manipulation, I thought and still think my ex is the master of manipulation! I cannot begin to tell you just how caustic our relationship was! I literally shut down and stopped all interaction with her because I knew what would come of it! I lost all confidence in myself and during our last 2 years of marriage, I would literally come home, go to the bedroom and do everything I could to avoid her. She had 3 children from prior marriages and I loved all 3 as if they were my own. And it killed me to see the mental abuse she would put them through. And several times she would physically abuse them. And all 3 were above 18 years old! The hold she had over them was scary to witness and my heart leapt out to them for the cruelty she enacted on them. When we finally separated, it was if I was reborn. I knew if I had stayed, it would have been the death of me! The mental trauma and anguish I went through has soured me towards wanting to date again. I would love nothing more than to find my soulmate. But after everything I was put through, I see red flags with practically every single woman I talk with. I’m sure that they are probably fine ladies but the thought of making another mistake and finding another nutcase prevents me from attempting to take the next step. And many times I find myself wondering if I will ever be happy and whole again? Thank you doc! Listening to this helps me understand how right I was for leaving.
Fight for yourself, go to a therapy❤. Out of narcissistic relationship with men and people - they didn’t want to settle down with family and kids, they were constantly chasing other options. I was never enough for them. Trying to meet new friends and the one to settle down with, but so many of them are projecting their past experience onto me and are afraid of commitment at all. I am left alone in cold.
Best bet is 0 contact. If u are looking for some kind of snow white out here in the real world, best of luck, don't waste your time. All u are going to find is me me me mine, and what I can extract from you. By nature I am not a self centered, greedy person, but seeing I'm a product of my environment, I'm just like everyone else now.
In my marriage, my wife's attitude about the relationship was more in line with a grandiose narcissist. She never showed any interest in establishing a close meaningful bond between us and she sabotaged my attempts to draw us closer.
1.Highly neurotic. Depressive. 2. History of inconsistent discipline in childhood. 3. Wife is highly manipulative. Plays the victim, blames the husband. 4. Wife's self esteem is contingent on others. 5. Wife is emotionally distant. She says she wants to be closer , she is emotionally complex. 6.Wife is shaken to the core when criticised by the husband. She has difficulty regulating emotions. 7. Has difficulty maintaining a positive self image. Failures in her life are turned into big successes in her head. 8.Wife has trouble explaining her feelings. Pronounced lack of insight. 9. "Taking something personally", hypersensitive to differing opinions. Criticises people, ego has to be protected. 10. Envy is converted into schadenfreude. Laughs at and ridicules people.
As for my ex-wife, the childhood "inconsistent discipline" took the form of her BPD Mom loving her at times, and screaming and throwing things at other times without a known reason. That loved-right-now, then scared-and-threatened the next out of no where, was probably the single biggest issue that took my ex-wife from being mostly kind to me, to our ultimate demise when marriage trials came up and she turned vile just as you explained. I knew why she did the things she did as a psych major, but had I known that vulnerable narcissism existed, I wouldn't have let myself or the kids get emotionally abused, or let my loving empath-self get bullied. It's heartbreaking for everyone. Abuse just sucks. It's awful for everyone; and that includes the abuser. Yes, I can still see the girl I loved through all the hate. She's just buried in this. Thank you for defining this (again), in another one of your great videos on this subject! It blesses me, and will bless my kids as they grow up.
I wish my Dad had known of it and could have saved himself... he loved and cared too much and suffered too much for a mirage. Sometimes life brings lessons the hard way.
Sad indeed, i had a counselor recently ask me if it would have made difference if i knew what was going on ? I told the moron bloody right it would have ! I would not have been so confused and angry ! And my kids would not have had to see me that way ! Take care brother 🤝
Thank you for sharing, it means so much. I'm 13 years in this marriage and figured out a few years back she was a narcissist as, things just didn't make sense nor add up, I just didn't know what type. Now I know, in specific and in detail what she really is...with her, adversity is oppertunity and around every corner.
My son married a woman that fits every single point Dr Grande mentions. She managed to drag him to the altar when he returned from Afghanistan. She is so mean to him but has him by the balls because she has 2 kids who he adores and would never want to take them away from their mother
My mom is a covert narcissist and it took me 30 years to realize it… She is a master manipulator who uses guilt trips and gas lighting. A conundrum of insecurities while thinking she’s better than the rest. Narcissist moms seem to favour their sons over daughters which also affected me. Aging is extremely hard for these people as well as so much is put in the exterior, which is causing her mask to slip even more these days. Anything can be perceived as an insult by them and you’ll be given the silent treatment with passive aggressive attitude for days never realizing what you did wrong. These people are dangerous and should be kept at arms length.
Took me 40 years :/ What you have written could have been written about my own mother, word for word. I'm so tired. It's been a year since I went no contact. On Monday, I went up to the park to check on my son, because he'd been gone far longer than agreed, and found her up there sneaking a visit with him. I'm still so angry. Her boundary violations never bloody end.
💡wow! My therapist suggested I was living with a narcissistic wife, but I wouldn’t accept that, but you have nailed it! She is not Grandiose, but vulnerable, which totally makes sense. Thank You!!!!!
Dr Grande, your many videos have given me much insight, understanding and comfort. I’m deeply grateful, thank you so much 🙏🏼 This particular one describes my mother to the T! I’ve gone through so much pain and torture as a child and to another degree as an adult, it is nice to see some of my own hodgepodge ideas borne from years of trying to figure out this most basic of relationship, supported by you and others from an objective and clinical standpoint. It truly helps me see through the gaslighting and overcome the cognitive dissonance. I’m at peace now and better able to relate to her without being caught up in the usual maelstrom of pain, confusion, manipulation and guilt.
This guy nailed EVERY description of my wife exactly. He outlined every reaction that my wife displays in vulnerable narcissistic condition. I’m archiving this video.
I grew up with a narcissistic mother. I don’t want to be anything like her... however, this video definitely highlights some areas where I’m just like her with my husband. It’s hard to hear, but It seems I should seek help. I don’t want to be this way or think this way.
@ohmyfefe My husband and his family are so carefree and loving. Since I didn’t grow up this way, it’s so hard to know what I should be doing as a wife. I’ve learned so much from his parents but a lot more from mine.. I was actually pretty shocked his dad has never talked bad about any of his kids even when they were in the wrong. It blew my mind.
@brandim, it's been 3 years since your comment, did you seek help? did you make any progress? this video describes me unfortunately and i've been struggling to change since i finally acknowledged who i am 4 months ago... i wish there were more helpful resources online and support cirlces for people like me...
@@red-swan-looking-in-the-mirror I haven’t sought out any help on this as of yet. I’ve just been more mindful of my actions and thought processes. My husband is probably the sweetest man alive, yet he’s forgetful and clueless at times. I have to remind myself he’s innocent and good and nothing like my mom or dad. If he forgets it’s not out of spite or that he doesn’t care about me, it’s genuinely that he forgot or didn’t know. It’s hard to understand this coming from my background. There wasn’t a time where my mom or dad “was unaware” and if they forgot something, it was intentional because they wanted attention or just to hurt me. I have to remind myself my husband is good and not view his actions with the same lens that I have to use with my parents, bc they’re not the same at all and it’s a blessing to have him. I want to treat him like the blessing he is.
Yeah! People would laugh at that saying as if it was funny or smart. It seemed to scary and ugly to me. Like happiness in there family was contingent on one person's manic emotional state.
I thought of it as "Mommas not going to feel like taking care of everyone else if she is not taken care of/caring for herself" but ....yeah I can see the scary in it too from a mental health standpoint
The person wearing it could take it as a joke, I think it really depends. Because the narcissistic parent would not be so conscious of their actions and states because of regulatory struggles and mal adaptation. They would deny it probably or feel criticized if the topic was brought up to them.
I've been researching Narcissism, NPD, traits and symptoms, cause and effects,.etc. But have been having real trouble trying to figure out my future X-wife of 13 years. She has traits (Out of 1-10 per personality type, ave. between 1 to 5) of every narcissistic personality type cataloged. But after watching this video,..I now know for a fact she is a true vulnerable narcissist. Every word spoken in this video,..i mean every single damn word,.. is my wife!! I ruined my life thinking i could help her, in many different ways,. it always turned against me, and depending on the flip, the current mood, the sun shined that day,.wtf ever! would have signs thrown in to where, she is more the malignant or covert type in in reactions, manipulation tactics,.promoting or provoking even violence in arguments. pushing me intentionally until things get violent. And after walks away smiling, like mission accomplished. and then takes that in-mind with her smear campaign. plays the victim not only to make me the bad guy, i'm the narcissist,. but also tries to portray the victim to me, even when we're not arguing. and in the snap of a finger,..FLIP,.. she's raging. i could go on & on,. now were separated, i'm caught up in ruminating, trauma bonded,.suicidal thoughts from the shame of it all. and i know its not what i should be doing for myself to heal, move on,. its never ending! I KNOW BETTER,.. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME?????
You've been severely traumatized. I can totally relate and believe me, it does stay with you, you just learn to not let it affect you so much. Hoping you can get to a better place!
I disagree! It's a lot more difficult to be an honest person. E.g. honest with one's self, and not constantly blame, project, and deflect. Being honest means having humility, and taking responsibility for own's own mistakes and shortcomings. I think this takes much more candor and self-awareness, and is thus why many people don't or can't do it. Personally, I don't know how to be anyone other than myself, and I have a strong sense of conviction between right and wrong. I'm not a religious person, or was raised that way. But for some reason ever since I was very young, I've stood up for he kids that were picked on, or spoke back to the teacher who wasn't been fair or nice to myself or other students. I guess I'm just an empath, which I always say is the greatest blessing and curse. I often look back at my life and feel that things would have been so much easier if I weren't one. But I'm proud to be a sensitive and vulnerable human being, and I wear my humanity proudly on my sleeve!
@@OnsceneDC well, i truly do not have a problem being myself, being humble and admitting when I am wrong or could do better. i am always self checking to see how I can do better. I am honest to a fault possibly.
@@conniethingstad1070 I'm curious to know what you mean by "honest to a fault"? Recently I've been giving a lot of thought to the concept of honesty because I've dealt with a lot of deception in my life. I think there are the lies we tell ourselves and then the lies we tell other people.
Great. I had 16 years with a Vulnerable Narcissist. I will have to watch this again. It is an an extremely confusing relationship to have. The lack of insight is very difficult. You correct them for simple thing and your will reap maximum aggression, rage, hostility, etc. They can not attach.
Very true. Zero insight. Zero self-awareness. It's like living with a paradox of constant self-contradiction. Even when you've obeyed, you'll be cast as disobeying. Even when you agree, you'll be cast as disagreeing. It is to live in a perpetual no-win & be told it's all your fault no matter what.
Thank you for this wonderful explanation with my wife 25 years and in the last half, I now realize she has been developing a narcissistic personality. Her mother definitely is so it seems like she is putting those lessons from childhood into motion. Her father abused her mom when she was very young. I feel like she is putting that anger towards him and directing it to me. Though eventually her mother broke her dad down and she became his enabler and he became a feeble dysfunctional alcoholic dependent on the mom for financial support of his alcoholic unemployed lifestyle. Became a stay at home dad 3 years ago after years of my wife asking me to. Now I realize this was all kind of a trap for me. This video is confirming other traits that are in line with my belief that she’s a narcissist. At least now I realize there is little chance of things getting better. Sadly they are only going to get worse. Now I’m left to leave her and deal with all the challenges that life will bring upon me but at least I know I can save myself from things getting so awful that I might find myself in a hole of total despair by her narcissistic ways. One of the things you mention and I had already come to believe is that she has ZERO idea of her feelings. She doesn’t like to share her emotions. And I realize that she doesn’t know what she is feeling. I feel sad for her in that way. Another point is number 10. I started to believe that she was envious of me, of my intellect and how I am able to self reflect and articulate those thoughts and feelings. I sensed that she found pleasure in trying to knock down my ego out of envy. And it really makes sense why she didn’t want me to work. She saw her mom set up her dad in this way as becoming the bread winner. And that made him highly dependent on her. I sacrificed so much for her to have a career in nursing. And sadly after 3 years of not working, I will be setback horribly in my line of work. And also at my age in my 50’s. It’s so painful but at least I have clarity of what needs to be done. I have been feeling like she would just slowly have me kill my self esteem to the point of letting myself fall apart and be driven into the dirt. The sad part is the effect this will have on my kids.
Naw. There are people in my circle of trust who've done me wrong or have been indifferent to my struggles and pain, that I know they can only understand when the same is done unto them, but not necessarily by me. I feel no regret with my satisfaction.
People keep score of remarkable, useless things… This is why there is a parable of the unjust steward, a man who knew to cancel debts of others in order to free himself. If you hold others to account, you yourself are in bondage.
Thank you for this lecture video, realised what is going on in the 7 years of my marriage, the violent reactions to innocuous criticism, the splitting with a rage directed at me as if we've nothing to do with each other, incessant criticism and blaming in private and occasional praise in front of others, the gaslighting, the manipulation, the shifting of blame, my isolation from any meaningful company to express myself and yet no meaningful connection on close proximity, her inability to be happy with herself through a hobby or leisure. The sudden rage for no reason, the resentment if I attended to a relative or a pet because she thought she is neglected, my dread on our anniversary or her birthdays as she will not specify as to what she wants, and later sulking at what she got.. Her condescending attitude towards others,her lack of empathy towards subordinates and even superiors and me.. her ineptitude to do any favour to anyone at a disadvantage. Her sister(grandiose) and mom(vulnerable) having similar traits... Now I have a 5y old son and can't call it quits... Will try some of the suggestions to mitigate the inevitable tensions and uncertainty In this relationship..
I think that out of all comments I've read so far here, that what you're describing sounds the most like what this is to deal with. I know, the passive aggressive stuff, the getting defense and rude whenever one expresses any of their own needs or wants, or when something needs to be done differently. Going into a rage over very small stuff. The quiet arrogance in their tone of voice, in the eyes. I've been there, done that. And yes, the one I deal with has her hobbies too.
You have both described 2 of my relatives precisely and I regret to inform you that it gets worse with age, not better unless ofcourse that narcissistic person wants it to and is willing to do the work. It's like being an alcoholic. There is no cure only treatment.
wow- I read your comment - this is so recognizable: "Her inability to be happy with herself through a hobby or leisure. " "Her ineptitude to do any favour to anyone at a disadvantage"
Thanks, Dr. Grande. Your videos help me on my healing journey. They shift my perspective from "it was all my fault" (as my ex let me believe) to "it was due to her narcissistic personality". This video even made it clear to me, how much my ex herself is a victim of her own personality issues. She behaved abusively, but she was full of shame and fragility. I'm better than that.
This is brilliant and really helpful. I am currently battling to be able to see my newborn son (whom my ex fiancé has withheld from me for 9 months now) in the middle of a smear campaign and have been totally discarded the moment I finally stood up for myself, but so many more things are coming to light now in how she interacted with me and others in the relationship, it was horrible. This explanation highlights so many of those things in a clear and concise way.
I found your explanation very clear and relatable to my situation. 16 years married with a beautiful wife but she scores 9 out of your 10 points. We're now at the point of going to therapy but she's very reluctant in going. So we're doing it for me to control my anger issues. Anger that comes out, once every few weeks after arguing over the same issues every time and letting it building up inside me. And I really want to work on that, but then I need her to make some changes in her behaviour too. She'not able to take any responsibilty, is very jealous, is not thoughtful at all towards me and is very neurotic. If I was just able to change just one of these characteristics.
Dude this is exactly what I deal with...... and I'm struggling to figure things out.... but literally exactly every point you made is what I find is an issue in my wife and I's relationship... she keeps looking for any reason to blame me. And when it's not quite so easy to do so, I'm often gaslit and told basically my life, symptoms, and emotions are all symptomatic of mental health disorders. We fight all the time intensely over almost nothing that can possibly be worth fighting about let alone so intensely. It just escalates everytime. She always has something to "address" with me or my behaviours..There is never a discussion. It's just literally me being told, even if it takes all night, that I'm the problem and I need to understand that fact.. I dont have to argue back for that to happen.. I also continuously try to get help with what I can myself, but that's exactly the issue as well, is I can't get anywhere if she doesn't make changes herself! I feel hopeless. Sometimes it's even really awkward.. and it even feels like I'm dealing with a delusional person. .. Because I would suspect they see how they are acting.. And that its obvious to them that they are acting out in some way. But she seems to actually believe she is right..
did you have any progress after 1 year? did you find any helpeful methods or resources? This video describes me and i desperately want to change, i would appreciate any advice, because no matter how hard i try, i still keep failing in many ways.
Ask them to do something for you. Something small. Something you would do for them with no hesitation. If they are narcissistic or otherwise toxic, it will ALWAYS go at least 1 of 4 ways (though sometimes these reactions may compound): 1. They will act as though they didn’t hear you Depending on how long you’ve been in the relationship, you may ask again. If it’s been long enough, you’re likely to drop the request right then and there. 2. They will promise to do it, but never follow through If you ask again or remind them, they will usually have some kind of excuse. In these cases, they will still never actually fulfill their promise. Their excuse is not a reason for lagging, it is the reason they should be absolved from all expectation whatsoever. Often this excuse will be meaningless or an outright lie. If you don’t buy their excuse, and tell them so, you will experience the wonderful segue into reaction 3: 3. An argument will ensue The argument will be your fault. It could be a small back and forth contending against your request, or it might quickly devolve into them screaming at you. You never know which it will be. They might even say outright that you should never ask or expect anything from them. Usually they will express that you are asking too much, hurting them in some way (financially, emotionally, insulting them, etc), or attack your character. The argument will only end when you relinquish your request + apologize, or start ignoring them completely. If you can ignore them long enough, they may apologize to you. However, the conflict will never feel truly resolved. At this juncture they may actually end up giving you what you asked for. Often this does require you admitting that you don’t really need it, or that you would be fine with what they suggested instead. This leads us to reaction 4: 4. They give you what you asked for, BUT There is ALWAYS a catch. It might be small. They show up late with no apology. They buy you what you wanted, but it’s the wrong color, model, brand, etc. They take you where you wanted to go, but pressure you the whole time you’re getting ready because you’re going to be sooo late. Then they want to leave early anyway. It might be worse. They do it out of anger, and make a big display out of it to scare/hurt you. They hold it over your head until you do something for them first. Or, later on, they use it against you. “I did x for you, so you should do y for me.” No matter what, you never actually feel fulfilled, happy, or loved when they do something for you. Somehow, even from the getgo, there was this deep-seated feeling of guilt and fear, this sense that the “special” things they were doing for you weren’t so special at all. Eventually, you become afraid to ask for anything. You’ve been conditioned to believe you deserve nothing. Ironically, or not, the less demands you make, the worse you will be treated. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done *Metaspyhub@gmail. com* ,,
Know my wife for 15 years. Married to her for 8 years. Only started to realize that she is a vaunrable narcissist. This explains all the confusion I had while knowing her. Didn't understand her behavior. After studying this condition I tried to approach her on it. That was a bad idea. She doesn't know or accept that she is. She took it as an hated attack on her. Now she is filing for deforce. There is so much hatred now. Not surprised to hear that I am the problem. We have a beautiful 5 year old daughter who needs us to be together. Hope my wife will change her mind. I still love her. I am still in love like the day I saw her for the first time. She is still a great wife and wonderfull loving mother. I'll accept her like that but now its a tad to late😢
she'll never change. You overexposed her inner dark emptyness. She will overaccuse you for everything and you'll try to take on you as much blame as possible and showing it arround. You should stay polite , firm and not show any emotion. You should value YOURSELF first. You can tell her that her insight is badly compromised and that you are sorry you haven't recognized this earlier. She will take the blows in ways to accuse you even more and in no way she'll take responsibility for anything. You're in for a lot.
Thank you for your videos on vulnerable narcissist behaviours. I have been researching this subject as I am currently at my wits end with my partner and desperately trying to understand her thought processes and reasoning behind her actions which are 90% in tune with your descriptions. A young child (now 11) has been the glue that has kept us together, 18 years in to a relationship and although heavily invested both financially and with a young child I have had to address the issue head on, with little success, mostly having all problems deflected back at me without any sound logic behind the argument. Further to this her inability to remain calm and discuss problems logically leaves us going nowhere fast. I fully understand that I will become the villan to her dramas when I leave. Luckily for me there are some that have already seen behind the curtain and understand her illusions of happiness are just that, a public show, however I know others will judge my actions, family included, who have fallen for the act. Starting my life over at 45 won't be the easiest thing I've ever done, but the luxury to put my own mind in to a positive, productive place is something money cannot buy.
I would hope that you can be there for your child. Having a stable consistent parent could make the difference between the pattern repeating or not. It can be a long, horrible haul staying, but if your child has to live with a narcissist parent without daily intervention.... I truly hope you can protect your child through this.
Thank you Dr. Grande for this very good explanation. With this I can probably label a family member of mine with this kind of narcissism. And believe me, this person is not easy to handle.
Thank you for bringing this into light, Dr. Grande!! The truth of the matter is this is the source of many problems of narcissistic encounters. The feeling of being vulnerable is justified to project many narcissistic behavioral traits. It is individual responsibility to overcome the feeling of "being vulnerable". Nobody can do anyone's homework, especially when they've got the teaching of good values available for access daily. Again, thank you, Doc, and God bless.🙏🤞
I live in the Mecca of narcissists. But I also come across empaths everyday. To me, these folks stand out even more, so when I come across them I try to hold onto them because they are few!
@M Z I agree that academia is full of narcissists, but I've also encountered many in my own career. For some reason, dealing with narcissists have been a completely different situation in my professional life than my personal life. It's much easier to impose and enforce boundaries with colleagues. However, it's so much more complicated when it's with your own family!
Your videos helped me gain insight regarding my vulnerable narcissistic traits. Of course, one thing is to see it and another thing is to try and change anything. This is one of the most stubborn distortions of thinking, it seems. Who knows how life would have turned out should I have seen and heard this 20 years ago. Glad to see this kind of work popularized.
@@mavrick1297 well it took me 12 years to impose boundaries and to actually realise that I am not responsible for all the bad things that happened to this person! I finally realised that no matter how much I tried to understand them and try to make them happy the bitterness was inside of them and there was nothing I could do or should to help them! These kinds of people use guilt and victim behaviour to make you feel sorry for them! It's all nonsense, drop them and cut contact or learn to day no!
The Schadenfreude. And when her dark mood strikes, the bully comes out. On one or two rare occasions that we had open confrontation she opened up about her wounded childhood, it was apparent an extremely difficulty for her to let go of that pain. But that opportunity to get a good handle on that inner conflict passed because the shame was overpowering her resolve to work past it and move on. And it continues like a rollercoaster ride
I have been reading about and looking at videos about narcissism for the last couple of days, strongly suspecting that my wife falls into that category / personality type. A lot of information regarding narcissism has fit on her but it has never felt close enough or spot on to me, until i found this video! My wife is for sure not of the grandiose type, that is the one that almost all sources on this topic will address, and not the vulnerable type. So THANK YOU for this clarification and breakdown it helps me a lot.
Looking through each comment it is reassuring to see how the garbage I have been going through and currently still am, makes sense. Its hard NOT to feel sorry for them but at the same time they crack you over the head with an emotionally manipulative hammer and you keep thinking... why the hell can't I break away., what the hell is wrong with me!!
Experienced all 10 signs (with ex-wife) and was very frustrating until recently. Before watching your scientifically based videos, there was a sense of toxicity, but could not articulate or define those actions with an understanding of mental health into the constant and continual actions described. For me, it seems these 10 signs are more common than not, and am much more guarded with who I hold hands with.
DeltaDan, Amen Brother!!! Like you it took me almost 15 years of marriage before I saw these signs being revealed by my wife. I suspected depression or borderline, but now after watching hundreds of narcissism videos I'm convinced she's a covert. This spring I reached my breaking point and left her after 25 years. For the prior 18 months she demanded we divorce and wanted me to leave. The day that I left she started hoovering and now denies saying she wanted a divorce. I have to save myself from the devastating cumulative effects of long term abuse, my mental and physical health took a major toll from all the stress she induced in me.
Everyone in this will appears to be narcissistic one way or the the other ,everyone has some kind of childhood past that labels them narcissist. Only Gods can help those who seeks the help and change for better.
I have been doing a lot of research into narcissism for a long time and recently got acquainted with the idea of an overt vs covert narc. I came here after watching a couple of Richard Grannon's videos. This video makes so much sense to me and your last point has just really empowered me and opened my eyes!! Honestly, I got used to being devalued and started to strongly believe there is something wrong with me thanks to the barrage of insults when she was angry. Now I can understand on a much deeper level what is going on. Your last point just had such a profound impact on me. It could indeed be true that I am normal and a good guy and that she cannot stand that to the point where she has to call me idiot, stupid, dumb, loser *insert your favourite insult here*...I cannot thank you enough for making this video.
"say you wanted to get a vehicle that was fuel efficient, and there's only one thing that you can know about this car" *goes into drag/aerodynamics, the weight, the engine* me, an intellectual: How Many Miles Per Gallon
7 years into a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist and I am just starting to figure all of this out. Unfortunately, I and my special needs daughter are financially dependant on my wife, and currently the only way to exit the situation would be to return to my own country, leaving my daughter without her primary carer and alone in the black cloud as you so adequetely described it. The worst part is the realisation of the transfer of some of some the traits of this vulnerability. The insecurity, distrust of friends and equating sex, or lack there-of to a lack of love. The lack of love is unrelated to me, and the lack of intimacy is a part of punishment for bringing a special needs child into her life and causing that change from the obviously preferable grandeous, to the vulnerable. Thank you for helping me begin to understand the dynamic. I hope at the least it will prevent me from keeping her company in the misery.
Been married to a woman like this for over 20 years now. She has no idea, it’s completely integrated, but I remember instances even back when we were dating where her reaction to certain things were completely bizarre and alien to me. There was a time when we were living away from our hometown together and her mom fell and broke her kneecap, she got legitimately angry at me for living out of town instead of recognizing that accidents happen, she has agency and we moved and made the decision together, and that you deal with life as it happens. If you want to help your mom I’ll book you a ticket and off you go. It was so emotionally immature and lacked self awareness that I was more confused than anything. Then over the years I recognized a whole suite of strange behaviors; she could never apologize and would maintain a state of silent rage for months with seemingly no concern or desire for reconciliation. I would have to be the one to approach and even then I’d end up uncorking anger. My professional success would make her uncomfortable. It was practically impossible for her to acknowledge any fault or come to a compromise in any disagreement. She would also have these fits of extreme self loathing. We finally got into counseling and she would almost start onto a script. Like it would be things that didn’t mirror reality. Dr Grande mentions the claim that she “wants a close personal relationship but the husband just doesn’t understand” - she did exactly that, and when I’d call her out on this fantasy, documenting all the times I’d reached out with letters and long winded texts trying to open our relationship up with zero effort to reciprocate on her part, she would literally freeze. When she realized that the therapist could see what she was saying didn’t mesh with the real world she would get viscerally upset and actually stormed out of our final joint session. She had an inability to express her actual feelings or express motivations in relationships. If you described a relationship to her and then asked her to speculate on the motivations of the people in the relationship she would struggle like she’s reaching for the right answer on an exam instead of flowing with a reasoned and rational understanding of normal social/relational dynamics. I remember having this revelation that there’s very little depth there and being horrified and perplexed at the same time. I went through a period of mourning realizing that the connection I wanted to have with her is practically impossible. I love her so I’m still here but it’s weird being with someone who lacks true depth and is incapable of comprehending themselves much less their partner.
Only you can decide what to do, but in my opinion you should leave and safeguard yourself. Narcissists bring nothing but pain and despair. Don't sacrifice yourself for someone who can't be saved. Even firefighters know this. It's tragic, but there's no reason to ruin two lives because of narcissism instead of one. Save yourself while you can.
I have been married to a covert narc for 20 years, the first 10 years were sort of ok while she was a stay at home Mum but in 2012 as the economy worsened I asked her to get a job and help contribute to the familiy and all hell broke loose. She is violent, has had me thrown in jail 3 times and I have appeared in court twice, both which I won. Coverts are bullies and are weak, so the last time the Police came round and I was kicked out of my home that I paid for and my name is on the title and subject to a prenup I had had enough of her and the bent Police Force. I had bought her a car subject to a finance condition which she had not met so I got a metal pole and smashed the Merc to pieces. Of course I was arrested for criminal damage but I won because I had bought the car and paid for it but I believe that taught her she had crossed a boundry and that I am willing to use violence and she has been like a lamb since. I do not talk to her anymore and only discuss our son. She has been trying to replace me by trying to meet up with guys and having affairs but she has caught 3 stds for her trouble. My attitude now is do not interfere with the enemy when they are in the process of distroying themselves. I am sitting this out until the "reset" happens..... I believe they are returning to Common Law which means the crooked courts will enforce my prenup. At the moment my 13 year old has access to me and his Mum which is a good thing and it also gives him the opportunity to see the bahaviour of his own Mum. She goes out all the time meeting random dudes instead of spending time with him. She has already lost her eldest son, she kicked him out because he got a girlfriend and she was not going to tollerate competition with another women. Narcs are just evil people.
@@horiboyablemgtow7842 made my chest tight reading this. Good luck to you. Our son had a health issue which combined with marital stress caused an autoimmune response in me. Be careful and remember to relax, find time meditation and stillness, or you’ll end up subconsciously hurting yourself and end up with some chronic health problem.
The wife takes the phrase ' taking things personally' into an entire different perspective. 😂 Love your sense of humor, dr. Todd. And thank you for your video's. They are so interesting and informative.
My mother has to be a vulnerable narcissist. She was described here perfectly. I’m very empathetic and believe my father was grandiose narcissist. My mother directed most of her issues on me, not my father as much. My one sibling is grandiose. He was the golden child. I’ve often wondered about how similar my brother and mother’s mind work. Narcissism explains it all and with my brother, I believe it’s both nature and nurture. This was so helpful. Thank you.
LMB925 do you think there is any way possible for both parents to be narcissistic? I suspect my mother to be a covert and my father an overt. I must admit that it is very hard for me to accept my mother being one as I was the one taking her side all the time as she was “the victim”....
@@tianaswing3874 Tiana Swing Yes. I think both parents can be narcissist. I too, grew up thinking my father was the abuser and my mother the victim. I saw her as the child and I tried to defend her. As I got older I realized she enjoyed her martyrdom and identified with being a victim. Later, I realized she never did anything she didn't want to do. She never showed any empathy and often was highly manipulative and cruel. I go could on, but it was mostly summed up here and in other similar videos, as I'm sure you can also identify with. I think my mother is without a doubt a covert/vulnerable narcissist, and highly suspect my father is a grandiose/overt. Although, I have some doubt with my father as he seem capable of some level of sympathy and understanding as he got older. I'm not sure, though. It was very little and often was not without motive. Both my parent were extremely cruel and self involved. I certainly don't know if there are other issues at play. Narcissism isn't the only explanation for cruelty and neglect. Either way, I've just started really researching it and there is certainly discussion that indicates you can have both parents be narcissist. Dr. Ramani mentions it several times in her videos. I'm finding both Dr. Todd Grande & Dr. Ramani's videos to be very helpful and have decided to seek therapy. If you haven't seen Dr. Ramani, I suggest doing a search and diving in. This information has really opened my eye. I've considered therapy for a long time, but didn't pursue for so many reasons. My mental state has extremely deteriorated the past several years and hearing all these things that explain so much has given validity to my problems and helped me to realize they aren't a figment of imagination. I think if you suspect both your parents to be narcissist, it is a very real possibility and it'd be a good idea to take Dr. Todd's advice and seek counseling too to help you sort through it. If you suspect it, there's something not right there and it may be helpful to examine it, whatever it ends up being. I sincerely wish the best of luck to you.
LMB925 I’ve only now seen your answer! I’ve watched Dr.Ramani and other related channels for 2 years now. God bless you in your recovery! Sending positive vibes!!!
I've been watching your videos this evening. Very informative. As much as I don't want to admit it, I display many of these traits and traits of BPD. I was diagnosed Bipolar 23 years ago but I'm wondering if I need to have my doctor reevaluate me and add a diagnosis or something. I'm going through a divorce and I'm willing to bet all of this contributed somehow. It makes me sick thinking about it.
Love your videos will continue watching. I've had this type of relaltionships in the past so l decided to stay single and not take women so seriously and watch out for these characteristic in all people. Thank you for your inside knowledge of this type of people.
Dr Grande, Many thanks for your very analytical, educative , and highly enlightening broadcasts. Kindly throw a little more light on the last sign (the 10th ) of a wife with narcissistic traits. Thank you.
😰 this sounds so much like my sister... is there an way to help someone that acts like this? I really miss my sister & I feel we are so distant because she acts this way 😞
You can’t change them but you can recommend they see a therapist to help with their depression/anxiety, as vulnerable narcs will have issues with these things usually. Don’t tell them you think they’re a narc, just act supportive when you tell them they should look into therapy. If they get a good therapist, the therapist will see what’s going on and slowly help them to become more self aware and reduce the other issues.
As a vulnerable narcissist in therapy I am sorry to hear what this type of abuse has done to so many people in the comments. Unfortunately vulnerable narcissism doesn't get diagnosed as such. And therefore is not treated appropriately. I can tell from my own experience. Being in therapy for years no one ever explained to me that there might have been a problem. Only a few weeks ago I realised that the overcompensatory type in addition to my ptsd diagnosis means vulnerable narcissism. In one video Dr. Grande explained how to cover narcissistic traits. It's a bit contra intuitive but it definitely helped to build some meaningful relationships. Which is a small step in the right direction. Still there is a long way to go.
My current partner was with the mother of his children for 30 years and as I read the comments, and listen to this video - I really see what he went through. His motivation to be a provider and stable parent kept him there but he’s really starting to grasp that we was in a abusive relationship and should have left her a long time ago. he’s starting to face the protective habits he created in relationship with her, now that he is with a person who truly relates and loves him. It’s so sad - but healing is possible with patience, consistency and true care.
I am going through the same with my current partner. Tell me, how do you help him heal? Mine has been through so much and struggles with triggers of what she did and trusting that I won't do to him what she did to him
35 years married. This video is as if you were reading the owners manual about her. You hit every single metric. Some that i never considered, but are absolutely correct. Hardest part fir me is having to walk on eggshells. I have to lead in to every comment or conversation with "this isn't about you or I dont mean this in this way" and that still might not be enough to keep her from twisting what I say into something bad about her. I recently went "no contact or silent" , she lost her mind. She just became evil towards me. Started staying out late several nights a week. Didn't come home at all several times. Then she left.
My ex-NPD once told me, "I'm not a good person." Point blank, verbatim. I thought she was talking about our having an affair (I didn't know if she was married, seperated, or what, only that she was very unhappy and looking to get out of her current relationship), but in retrospect I think she had a moment of "clarity" and let it slip. She knows that she has a problem, though imo not exactly what that problem is... and I'd bet a paycheck she doesn't want to know and will run from that knowledge until the day she dies, denying it exists so she can perpetually claim victim status and continue acting as she always has, a covert/vulnerable narcissist.
I was told the exact same 5 words by my ex wife during the initial love bombing phase . I didn’t listen either . 14 years later my life was in shambles and I had no idea who I was .
Wow same she said:"I am evil" but only that one time at the beginning when she needed me to wait before I enter the house, becouse she needed to "clean the room".. well the room was not clean or anything but who cares when you are freshly in "love", huh? :D
Doctor, I would love to hear your take on this. As I'm listening to this, it sounds like "the wife" has adopted negative beliefs about herself from childhood, and she acts according to these beliefs. The reason she can't explain her motives for her behavior shows me it's subconscious, because the language of the subconscious isn't based in logic but primal feeling. She's constantly claiming the romantic interest to be emotionally distant, because that's probably the belief her caretaker projected on to her. That her feelings don't matter. And she's basically running a subconscious program installed in childhood that she can't even explain that enabled her dysfunctional psychological survivalmode. What are your thoughts on this Dr? I feel like in psychiatry we get lost in labels and statistics, while it seems to me that a lot of these behaviors are rooted in beliefs of one self, mostly subconscious. And of course a mix of genetics, but I find it hard to believe genetics are a "death sentence" in these cases. We now know about the science of epigenetics which to me ties into this whole story. The mind is easily fooled by beliefs, we know this. We take it to a whole other level when the "wife" comes to believe at an early age that she must move into a psychological state of survival ,and all it's psychopathological "friends" (behaviors) will save her. Survival sounds like a good reason evolutionarily speaking to turn a (otherwise) pathological "narcissistic"gene on?
And you have nailed why the DSM is such a garbage fire when it comes to diagnosis. Modern psychology/psychiatry does not understand anything about the process of the diseases they claim to treat, and instead rely on poorly constructed (and very unscientific) explanatory models to basically bullshit the public into thinking they are erudite. It's why psychiatric drugs really cause problems. You may enjoy a more rigorously researched (at least cited) perspective than this channel- Dr. Grande is super mainstream and seems very susceptible to societal expectations of gender in particular, which clearly biases his interpretations; part of why we see so much talk on female BPD and male NPD. Check out Mad in America. It's a great resource for counter cultural thought that is rigorously tested and researched.
I find myself wondering sometimes if my wife really loves me. I might be a narcassist. The interesting thing is that my parents were both affectionate to each other and to me. I knew they loved me because they not only said it but showed it in so many ways. If I am a narcassist I certainly can't point to anything my parents did wrong.
@@ChristopherSalisburySalz A narcissist has no ability to take responsibility for any behaviors or self-reflect and analyze their patterns in a logical way as that would require a type of self-esteem that they do not have. The fact that you are able to do that means that you can not have NPD, it could be, however, that you have certain narcissistic characteristics that you are acknowledging within yourself or it could be a whole other issue. You would have to do further research to find out but I can assure you that every narcissist on the planet truly believes that they are perfect or almost perfect and would never ever consider otherwise let alone something as serious as narcissism! LOL
@@ChristopherSalisburySalz if you were a narcissist you wouldn t be here wondering if you were one and you wouldn t care if your partner was and be searching for solution.
@@mimilalla6197 what is it then if you have all of the behaviors Dr. Grande talks about in this video and would say you are a vulnerable narcissist that learned those survival and coping mechanisms in early childhood, and are now aware of it as an adult but it’s so ingrained and subconscious that you still display those behaviors even while working on them? Can’t one be aware of being a narcissist and work on changing those behaviors and thought patterns? Or do you suddenly become not a narcissist once you realize that you are a narcissist because of said realization?
I was raised by a narcissist mother and married a narcissistic husband. Each time you go through the characters of the mental health or lack of I tend to see more of each of them. I had my ex removed from our home. The day he left I told him he reminded me of my mother. I did not know of narcissistic behaviour at the time
I wrote down almost everything you said. I have a 2yo and a 4yo with such a wife. I will take massive determined actions to secure the situation for everybody.
Thank you so much, i have lived for 24 years not knowing that i am like this. I got into so much trouble, and it's not even my fault that my mom raised me in a very unhealthy way. Life is so unfair, when i have a huge disadvantage (mom) life even pushes me deeper because my soul was already very ill and depressed, everyone was mad at me for acting out
Thanks for your work Doc! Totally eye opening for me, a classic Codependent Fat kid with codependent alcoholic/Narcissist divorced parents, married to who I now know is a Vulnerable Narcissist with a laundry list of child hood issues also. Only took me 27 years to figure it out :) Now I get why my wife LOVES those TV shows where "Rich Housewives" show their lives crashing! while they treat each other horribly with a smile on their lifted faces. G.
Dr. Grande- you are describing the family dynamics I've experienced to a "T', especially the strange relationship between my parents. My father was always demonized and devalued by my mother, and I feel like I wasn't allowed to really have a close bond with him because I believe she wanted and needed the constant 'supply' and admiration from my sister and me. My father was always a workaholic, traveled often, and made himself physically and emotionally distant. Interestingly enough, in my parents older age and retirement, my mother has developed a disability and my father has been totally dedicated to caring for her (which I find amazing after all she put him through). Recently I mentioned some of the antagonizing things she often did and said to him, and she adamantly denied it. Throughout her life she has dealt with drug and alcohol problems, and they have also seemed to get better. I think the fact that she is constantly getting attention and admiration from my father, her narcissistic behavior seems to have been minimized. All I can say is that my mother is honestly one of the luckiest women in the world to have a partner like my dad. And I do believe that for once, she actually appreciates him. I'm not sure if vulnerable narcissism can be cured, but I think it mellows with age as they are able to let go of some of the deep insecurities they have. Furthermore, I've seen how my mom used my sister as an "emotional appliance" (and thus I believe my sister developed a lot of BPD and narcissistic traits because of it). Not having her anymore, and being in a more dependent role with my father has turned the tables, and it's been a very interesting dynamic to observe. Unlike most narcissistic family units, I feel like my story doesn't necessarily have a "happy ending". But I've seen some major improvements in my parents lives and their relationship. I would never try to change a narcissist, but I do believe that they can change somewhat based on their age, station in life, and a variety of conditions.
Excellent and precise as usual! I was just wondering if it might be worth mentioning the 'inferiority complex' as major underlying factor? It has been my experience with vulnerable narcissism that this is the key element behind the sense of shame and hyper sensitivity to criticism and self hatred in general which prevents the proper development of intimacy and attachment and a necessary for a bond to form in a mature relationship. The constant need to relieve this impaired sense of self also seems to motivate 'schadenfreude' aspects you refer to. It has also been my experience that the vulnerable narcissist will actually confess that they are feeling inferior and then blameshift and scapegoat their significant other in reaction to this. Like all narcissists, they seem to need to displace this negative self perception onto those closest to them but in the case of VNs the drama is based on their acute sense of victimhood.
That may have been your experience but it is by no means common or a hallmark of the disorder subcategory. In fact consistently seeing/hearing that I'd be looking for a different diagnosis!
@@bigcconservativeguy2534 inferiority complex with vulnerable narcissism VN makes a lot of sense to me. with a grandiose narcissist GN (I've been with both romantically) , there is an ABSENT self, a horrifying terrifying hole where a personality should be and when they are confronted with the need for emotional openness in the relationship, it causes panic to the GN. the VN has a personality but it was crushed and they cycle between keeping it hidden and then flirting with other men to build it up.
Feel like this is making sense for the way my marriage is going, I always get the blame and have always believed it. Thinking it ain’t always my fault glad I stumbled onto this
You’re describing my mother to a tee. I’m 45 years old and wish I had limited my contact with her many years ago, but I am starting now because I won’t have her pulling the same manipulations on my kids that she did on me. Those with similar moms will understand how insidious and destructive it is to be raised by this personality type.
These videos are so incredibly helpful. I've now been able to identify this in my wife. I want to add 2x more toxic behaviors that tend to cause the most harm to me. My wife will trivialize and invalidate my daily efforts, chores, and tasks. She tries to convince me that my time is expendable and there for her to use/waste. Usually this is targeted when she needs to justify her ignoring boundaries/limits. Example: Since I work from home, I have flexibility/availability for tending to the needs of our 3x children. I take them to school & pick them up, which is a huge expenditure of time/energy every day. My wife has told me that, "if you didn't do that, we would just pay someone to, so it's not a big deal". The 2nd toxic behavior. She will often accuse me of gaslighting her as a reaction to me attempting to directly confront her on bad behaviors. Example: She will complain, as a reaction to conversation, that I criticize her too often or question every decision she makes. When I inform her, truthfully, that I'm not being critical of you in the slightest, I'm not even disagreeing with you, she accuses me of gaslighting her.
Sounds like you are gas lighting each other. I have learned to say, "that was not my experience in that situation." Then describe my experience. As soon as we tell someone that their experience is invalid that is gas lighting. Just because she's wrong or unreasonable, it doesn't mean it isn't gas lighting to tell her that. I have learned to reword it with my husband because he is chronically gas lighting me and our child. But he LOVES to mansplain to us how we are gas lighting him. "Well, if that was MY EXPERIENCE, then I'm not gas lighting you." Gender aside, we can communicate our experience of a situation as being different without telling them they're "wrong". Even when they are, which seems to be the pattern. I like to say it is rewriting history to favor him. My mom did the same thing. They both believe, wholeheartedly, that their version is.what happened... It's effed up.
@@thisbeem2714 Gaslighting is a deliberate attempt to deceive or manipulate someone by convincing them that their experience is incorrect. It's a dishonest, reactionary type of behavior with the primary motive being control regardless of whether anything that is said or experienced is accurate or true. My communication with my wife is sincere and is not motivated by deception or control.
Dr. Grande I'm afraid I have to apologize to you from past comments. I misread you.. You just helped me immensely. I now realize my ex wife is a covert narcissist. Every single one of the 10 traits describes my ex perfectly.. Thank you for your professional insights...I am forever grateful....for years my ex labeled me as a narcissist...I'm more on the empathic spectrum.
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Just celebrated our 21st anniversary 2 days ago. It was not until the last 9 months that I started to realize she is never happy. Every day is the same as the one before. Realizing she was not CAPABLE of being happy no matter what I did for her was devastating. I have sacrificed years with family and friends to give her what she claimed would make her happy only for it to all be a waste of time. Up until my epiphany, I always blamed myself for ruining her life, making her miserable, screwing everything up, never quite doing things the way I should have for her or generally falling short of her expectations.
She has disparaged all of my past friendships. my family is kept away. I working ungodly hours to try to support our family (I'm the only who has worked throughout our marriage) so I have a tenuous relationship with our 4 kids. If I do see things they are doing wrong and call them out, it erupts into an argument between my wife and I.
I have spent years trying to figure out what was wrong with me and genuinely believing I was at fault. It was so frustrating trying to tear myself apart to figure out why I wasn't GETTING IT.
Her narcissistic roots are generational. her grandmother was that way. Her mother is that way. She is that way. my youngest daughter is that way.
I have poured myself out since I was 19 years old to make her life better only to find out it could not be done. The only consolation is that at least I know what I'm dealing with and will stop internalizing her blame.
Some examples of her manipulation tactics:
1. Sarcastically taking blame for "everything" rather than genuinely accepting that she has done anything wrong.
2. I'm sorry YOU feel that way.
3. Siding with my kids and even her mother against me.
4. She diminishes and even mocks my interests, ideas and beliefs especially when we are arguing. She is likely to ridicule them and pour out contempt that I even think they have any real value.
5. She is very loving and affectionate when we are by ourselves but as soon as someone else is around (namely her mother since my wife has no friends either), I might as well not even be around unless she needs me to do something for her (which tends to be 80% of our conversations).
Having no one to even talk to about this has helped maintain her hold on me so the isolation tactic has been effective. I mean look at me, I'm venting a lifetime of frustration to strangers on a 2 year old TH-cam video just because I finally found someone who could define articulate why I have been feeling this way.
I feel your pain. I am in a six year relationship with a covert but have no kids. I am trying to exit but it is not easy as I have don't have many friends anymore and we live together. I only realised once we moved in together 2 years ago. I keep on thinking it will change but I know deep down it won't she is to self centred to change.
Praying for both of you. The “never enough” status is a trap set with a bait of future love.
Same here dear frend!!
Been in exactly the same type of situation for 25 years. She wasn't always this way. Not that I remember. She used the same tactics you described. Her mother was very much in the picture and she was a negative and pessimistic personality to be sure. She would disparage me openly in front of my kids. She helped to isolate my children and she helped to alienate them from me. All while living in my home with us. I haven't seen my dogs, kids or the inside of my home in 7 years. This is becoming epidemic. Your definitely not alone. Be grateful you have your life and your freedom and try to move on. I've been researching this topic for 7 years. In those 7 years I've met men that have not only been alienated from their kids and lost everything they worked their whole lives for but also lost their freedom due to false accusations of violence. One guy I talked to did 4 years in state prison and later took his own life.
My wife had an affair the entire time we were together and I just found out. She used me like a tool. She also accused me of violence that I did not commit. Stuck in jail I had to take a plea deal to get out of jail. Worst mistake of my life. Get away. Stay away. Don't look back. She won't change. But she will change you. Sounds like she already has. You can find yourself again. It's difficult. But you can. Good luck.
@@maragirl1658 yeah...I understand that's all you can do. I really do. But how long before that situation becomes so frustrating and heartbreaking for you that it begins to change your character? How long before it gets you caught up in it and you suffer consequences? I don't think we should stand by and watch the downward spiral. Because it affects and infects every person it comes into contact with. It needs to be called out and treated. This behavior has permeated our society at every level and it's thriving. I think it's wrong. But I do realize you cannot make people change. You should be able to kick their ass when they take a piece of your life or your heart or whatever. Eye for an eye. They are all cowards and bully's and they keep winning and getting away with it and their numbers have increased exponentially. Because they didn't get their punch in the face or the gut when they should have. They haven't ever taken their lumps. And they are deathly afraid of it and avoid accountability like the plague. This problem is not going to go away or resolve itself. They are going to ruin us all. Suck us dry. It's just my opinion. I'm sure going around punching people in the mouth wouldn't help either. It might make me feel better tho. 😂🎯
I married one - and never saw it for over 15 years - the mask slips completely off - she ruined my life - took my son - pushed me to the point of suicide - I have nothing but hatred for this person (but still want to love them) - PLEASE protect yourself - it could be your life at stake more than you know!
U know all about these traumatized children (mother or father wounds)..they seduce u with charm & sex ...then your trapped...and since they have this Jezebel spirit and listen to demons...they know how hurt you...in a deeeeep,way ....and pull u back in with sweetness ..niceness..trama bonded...40 years for me before I woke up...and now, still with her, because I'm undone...sick and broke....praying for deliverance for me & her
How are you doing a year later? Keeping busy?
My daughter is in the process of divorcing a vulnerable narcissist. To Dan.....please hang in there. I know what you mean when you say she ruined your life. I warned my daughter not to marry the creep who relentlessly pursued and even stalked her. He has ruined ALL of our lives. For innocent children have their lives in tormoil.
@@Carbon_Fiber
That's just not true at all. You are a man who doesn't have intimate partner relationships with men so how the heck would you know?
Statistically there are higher rates of diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder amongst men than women even though culturally the traits are more acceptable in men than in women.
Women are more vulnerable to intimate partner intimidation and violence but violence is often not necessary as the threat will do. Women are still often brought up in a way which makes us more likely to take a back seat to men and end up with more of the household or childcare work, on top of working a full time job.
You may think you've not come across women who are not narcissistic but you may just never have been attracted to those women because your attachment style was informed by a childhood relationship with a narcissist.
It is in forgiveness that we are forgiven
God bless you
1. The wife is highly neurotic 1:49
2. wife had a history of inconsistent discipline 4:51
3. wife is highly manipulative 6:31
4. wife's self-esteem is contingent upon others - including the husband 7:19
5. the wife is emotionally distant 8:09
6. The wife appears to be shaken to her core when criticized by the husband 9:53
7. the wife has difficulty maintaining a positive self-image 11:15
8. the wife's insight is compromised 13:22
9. the wife puts the phrase taking something personally into an entirely new perspective 14:22
10. envy is converted into shadenfreude 15:31
Thanks! I was looking for this and found you💜 thanks for the effort🙏🏽 God bless you!
Thanks.....I knew my friend has this...sad for husband & daughter
I was married to a covert narcissist for 20 years, and just about everything in your video matches her.
Initially I had no idea, I am into tech and science so psychology for me was in the next multiverse.
And yes, according to her I was always at fault, I was never good enough, I was obese when I was just overweight, I was 'a carcass' and I do 3km ocean swims, I would hardly spend any money on myself and yet she would call me a financial abuser, I would spent almost every evening renovating the house for the family and she would tell it meant nothing because she could just get any handyman to do it, and more...
She left, and from the day after I felt a weight had fallen off my back!
Watching videos like yours makes me realise I was not crazy, or imagining things, so many thanks for this eye opening video!
@@josephvaz1260 You my brother, are not alone... 21 in and her mask came of too!!!!!!!
Now working on putting my BRAIN back together !!!!!!!
@@josephvaz1260 such a pity, you sound like a great familyman and husband.
I hope you can find healing on your path...
Greetings from the Netherlands
My ex girlfriend was a vulnerable narcissist. There is no decision in my entire 30 years of living on this planet that I'm more happy about than that one when I decided to break up with her. It was the start of my new self improvement journey.
I wish i can do it ... i need a help from someone. I am depleting day after day.
@@arlilani If you think you need help from someone you should consider going to a therapist who's specialized in narcissism, or talk about it with a real good friend.
@@arlilani I felt exactly the same as you. I ended up cutting her narcissistic supply off and she left me.
I didn't relaise that I had cut off her supply at the time but after some research and discussions I've had with a therapist it seems I did and it was the right thing to do.
Go and chat with a therapist I wanted to for months before the end of my relationship but at the time no single event was 'bad enough' to justify going and now realise that if I was feeling that way about my partner and already doing the research on TH-cam that IS justification for going to therapy.
Good luck out there.
@@arlilani The starting stage is hardest, **ignore the urge of staying with them**, take some distance of few weeks or months, change your atmosphere, you will feel better you can also check videos of Dr. Ramani ,Put your emotional stability your first priority. Last thing to say "Never Give Up".
Yes yes yes to this comment. I’m 31 and going through a separation right now. Finding out this information is beyond mind blowing. Here’s to this next stage in our journey.
My son studied, got a Bachelor’s in law enforcement, an MBA and became an officer- he works a 12 hour day, comes home and cleans, cooks, takes the dog out and puts the toddlers to bed , reads to them but he is the „loser“ according to his wife. She drove a teenager boyfriend to suicide. My accomplished son is aware that he might be in serious danger and told me if anything should happen we should ask police to look into it. What a loveless way to live.
I lived it too.
Best of luck to him, gonna need it. A loosing indever.
Get him to see a therapist!!! God bless!!
Why is he staying? He needs to document what is happening and file for divorce and custody of the children
@@lauraescayg7516 --The courts will never side with the father because the courts won't recognize narcissistic personality as a danger. The court will mandate both spousal and child support. He will then be out of the house, will have his wages garnished 50% and then being absent from home, he will be unable to assist/protect his own children from their self absorbed mother. That is why is he staying; he knows how the system works.
I've watched so many videos on narcissistic behavior lately and my whole 6 year marriage makes sense now.
Watch patrice o'neal too
@@thomas-ud1fs is he a narc or a victim ?
@@HawkFightTalk hes a comedian who died a decade ago and explained alot about basic female behavior.
Yeah then get out while you can
@Tony Duncan yes, I've had an argument that we need help, therapy, something. She says she doesn't want to go back to taking pills... idk man
Thanks, u are a very good personality disorder explainer. I’m a psychiatric nurse for last thirty years. My father is a vulnerable narcissist I do believe. Listening to your lectures, I have gained much self awareness and confidence. I am grateful 💛
Apparently your profession does not include free therapy or even friendly insights from your coworkers/employers.
No insult intended if it sounds that way. I suppose keeping work and home life is the professional way.
I guess there isn't much one can do about it anyway, when it's another person. Except gain clarity and understanding that the problem isn't you.
It's good to know the behavior has specific signs.
There would be much less misery in n the world if these things were taught in high school.
In order to avoid relationships with them.
Seriously, I am mind blown!! My mother is a narcissist and he was spot on when it came to describing her and NOW he is seriously on point when it comes to me. I am a narcissist. I just realized 1 year ago that I did not want to be this person anymore and I am on my way to changing myself for the better. I wish he had videos on how to not be a narcissist.
I’m in the same boat ❤️ it’s hard, but I’ve been fighting it for about 3 years since I realized/accepted that I’m a vulnerable narcissist. I’ve found that cultivating genuine intimacy is HUGE in recovering, because it puts you on the same level as the other person in your mind and allows you to feel more genuine empathy for them. So for me, opening up about being a narc to a therapist and to my boyfriend have been huge since now when they “accept me”/“love me”, I believe them fully and I also can love them more. And I’m more able to see my real self because they help me clarify my self image when I ask them about it. It’s SO hard, but it’s worth it ❤️
@@raylaughlan5324 thank you for sharing that.
Social contagion is a sad twist of fate. I'm in a similar situation, and as Ray above mentions, truly authentic relationships are among the best ways of bringing yourself out of vulnerable narcissism.
Hope you're improving in this endeavour.
Narcissists have no insight, you have insight so you're well on your way. I think it's the fact we emulate behaviours not that at out core we are truly narcissistic, if we were we wouldn't be here wouldn't be questioning this and wouldn't have insight. I developed rages based on n.father. I was young but it's not the true me, I'm highly empathetic and sensitive. I don't abushers to bolster my ego or self esteem or have a false self. We just learnt ways of being but that's not out core. If it's a core trait it never changes even with information. At my core is empathy, I think it's genetics and environment that shapes ppl 🙋🙋
@@bereal6590 I think it's a 'fawning' technique, to survive with a narc. Like the Stockholm syndrome.
I'm overwhelmed. Once again you have given clarity to a diagnosis and a word that I believe is overused in our society. I've never heard a professional explain it with such clarity. After going through an insane childhood, witnessing my closest ally, my bother, comitt suicide because of narcissistic abuse. My mother is extremely abusive. In all aspects. The emotional abuse was torture. At least when we got hit with something we understood what happened. The abuse from a narcissist is truly unimaginable. I watched these Dynamics play out between my mom and dad. My dad gave up on his life , got sick & passed away. Knowing my mother was neurotic was a given in our family. I wholeheartedly believe children need to know that it's not their fault it can make all the difference in saving a life. My brother needed to know. It wasn't his fault. When you grow up and that type of atmosphere you are taught it's your fault.
I'm so very sorry for your losses. Hope you are in a better place now.
@@reelmermaid8844 Thank you. I am grateful for people that show they are good. It is a gift to see good and that compassion exists it is exactly what helps heal the hurt. It makes it possible to see the light that helps getting through the dark moments . Seeing kindness does exist and it is possible to break the cycle to really change. Thank you!
My mum in a nutshell, so damaging to everyone around her. Very enlightening video Dr. Grande, thank you for taking the time.
Yes. My dad recently passed and my mom is a vulnerable narc. I went no contact with her afterwards. This is so accurate to their relation and explains so much
You & I have the same mom.
@@lar8200 My Mum is a v narc and may Dad passed 3 years ago. (he is finally at peace after a life time of my Mum) I have become the person she spews venom at now. I know I have 'problems' caused by her as well as witnessing the day to day life of my Mum and Dad. I'm 50 now , and still can't get over it :(
I thought my mom was just a straight up narcissist... Then the next video was this and wow! It's like an arrow in my heart because it is so accurate.
My mom also was super inconsistent never knew what action was going to get what response. Chaos
My mum too, it seems like there are a lot of mum's like that
Thank you so much for finally someone talking and explaining vulnerable (covert) narcissism in-depth, with examples and what is actually happening in the core of the narcissistic personality.
Vulnerable is so much hard to detected and so much dangerous and no one is talking about it.
Grandiose I can spot from 10 mountains, but vulnerable can be everyone with a little or much of introversion and more emotional.
Please do more on vulnerable with exact everyday examples and not only in romantic relationships but in different varieties of relationships in society, especially family (mother).
I like that you are explaining in a more professional manner, not so much in (like other authors) a conversational style.
I saw this in May 2022. It was the biggest lightbulb moment I have ever had. It explained all the strange weird and hyper frustrating stuff I lived with for years. Thanks Todd, it put the wheels of disconnect and self awareness needed to get away from the mother of my children. I now don’t feel like I’m going insane anymore.
Well it's now middle of June 2022. I hope you are doing better. Hey we're all friggin crazy but we're not always all nuts. It's that fine line between some good Tom Petty songs and some not good Tom Petty songs. And we know there is no such thing as a bad Tom Petty song -- so see -+ you are doing OK. Saving grace. Take care of yourself though p. seriously.n please be safe. We need you. Gail in Central Florida June 13, 2022
They all got exposed after covid. It’s call victory over the fruit of evil. Stay strong and believe in yourself. GOD loves you, your kids need you. Stay strong, calm and peaceful, don’t react to their attacks. You’re always protected. I know exactly what you are talking about, my case with the narcissist was like walking through hell. Believe me, we will be on top at the end. Peace man!
You will grieve & mourne for your lost but the peace that comes is priceless! No longer taking you under water
1. Highly Neurotic (1:50)
2. History of Inconsistent Discipline (4:51)
3. Highly Manipulative (6:31)
4. Self Esteem is Contingent Upon Others, Including the Husband (7:18)
5. Emotionally Distant (8:10)
6. Shaken to her Core when Criticized by the Husband (9:52)
7. Difficulty Maintaining a Positive Self image (11:15)
8. The Wife's Incite is Compromised (13:22)
9. Puts the Phrase "Taking Something Personal" into a Whole New Perspective (14:22)
10. Envy is Converted into Schadenfreude(taking joy in others pain) (15:31)
You need to really get a hold of yourself and consider this like a hurricane or some natural disaster if you've manifested this person it is because you need to look at whatever you've been avoiding and letting it ruin your life. Every deficit is now highlighted. It will be simple to work on yourself. They never loved you. They don't know what that is. They will not be happy until you are destroyed. They will only take. Never give.
Accept these things- you lived a contrived fantasy - it was not real. You didn't not Lose anything with the relationship ending. You now have a chance to prioritize your life in a way that will have meaning before it is too late. Sure your ego hurts and yes. You've been in an emotional 6 car pike up. Get appropriate care your old self is gone. Look forward. And - living well is the best revenge. God bless all of you struggling to find your way. The pain will diminish. You have a lot of power to take back. Get cracking!
Exactly my beloved ex-wife.
Such a beautiful spirit twisted like a pretzel by demons.
I love her and I know she carries a deadly evil. I can’t help her. And it is ever between her and God.
Like how say that
40 years with my covert narsicist Jezebel wife.. one year awake...oh the pain...its goes from a bad dream to a nightmare (once u wake up) now i understand why I stayed so long...childhood trauma of unworthiness...and more ...this relationship physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially smashed me ...praying for a way out..still with her...would love to campare notes sometime if possible..
If it makes you feel any better, I'm an atheist, and I married the wrong woman too.
@@MultiCappie no not really...but thanks for trying...i think
I feel the exact same about my ex. You are not alone!
This was a real trip to listen to. I recently broke up with a girlfriend of about five years, and it was insane to think to myself “yep, yep, yep, yep,” as you listed the characteristics. She fulfills almost all of these criterion. She used to completely shut down on my and emotionally close off, and when I attempted to help or understand, she expected me to automatically do so without her having to explain anything.
how many times did she say "if you love someone, you do not need to be told what they need, you will KNOW" and when I would say "huh, what I always heard in the Program and in therapy was 'nobody is a mind reader'. So, please, just tell me how you feel, what you think, and what you want." then she would go over the same complaint for the 12th time about some thoughtless thing I said or did that hurt her feelings, that I apologized for 12 times, and explained my point of view, which she never understood or remembered, and ask/tell me "I thought you said I should tell you how I feel, what I think, and what I want ?! I guess you aren't interested, it's not important to you."
@@myotherusername9224 they expect us to read their minds and feel what they feel. But they have zero interst in what we feel or think. My ex could talk for 1-2 hours about her obsession, but became anoyd/irritated and angry when i talk about my interst for 10 minutes 😂.
Their lack of empathy is realy mindbogling and disgusting 🤯.
Looking back at it. It all seems insane. They are so cruel. They talk about love and care, but gives nothing in return. Simple things like enjoying a dinner or taking a walk is impossible for the narcissist.
They are just a waste of time
My ex-wife is a covert narcissist, and after 14 years, she asked me for a divorce, and began to show all these characteristic (though truth be told she had already exhibited some of them throughout, I only dismissed it thinking it was expected selfishness and attention dependence due to her being a single child). The nine months that followed her unexpected and callous announcement were without question a living hell that she sadistically and unnecessarily put me through.
I thank GOD for not only getting me out of their so quickly, but for allowing me to move on with my life.
@@maafg4435 I agree.
The fact is, I didn't even have a problem with her "not loving me anymore" or in "wanting a divorce" even though both are not consistent to the Judeo-Christian values you claimed she had also, which is why I even married her, because she claimed that she held the institution of marriage as sacred as I. Which did not turn out to be the case.
Now, don't get me wrong. I am not claiming that it would not have hurt me--sure, but I am a reasonable and understanding man--at least I endeavor to be. I consider every perspective, not just my own. So, it was not that she ended our marriage, but HOW she ended it that bothered me, and I believe was not necessary.
I mean, had she not tried to gaslight me and make me out to be the "bad guy" to all our family and friends, it would not have been as painful as it was.
There was nothing worse than to have family (my sisters, and mostly of her side of the family) and friends (many the ones I met through her) turned on me on a dime--not even wanting to hear my side--they all took her side and judged me a "monster" "toxic" and "master manipulator."
Even before I knew what was going on, and reached out to them to help us--they either attacked me, or ignored (blocked) me. I had never felt so isolated and defeated in my life. ONLY GOD was with me.
And I thank GOD--and not figuratively either--for helping me during those seven months, especially on the night last year when in her crazed-out state, she had her cousin called the police on me (domestic disturbance call) while I slept.
I mean it, It was ONLY by the grace of GOD that the police did not side with her (given the show she and her cousin made that caused them to greet me with guns drawn), but they quickly saw through her and her cousin's lies (I did not realize to what extent until I obtained both the 911 call, and police cam (4) videos. So, instead of arresting me, and forcing me out of our home--as my ex-wife and her cousin (both narcissist) wanted them to do, the police told her to get somethings and find somewhere else to stay "until things cooled down." That was the last night my ex-wife stayed in our house until I moved on five months later.
Shadenfrude !
That’s why my narcissistic ex and her narcissistic daughter always took such pleasure, making fun of and laughing at me, any time I made even an insignificant error!
Thank you!!!!
oh boy my ex was like that... I tried so hard all the time. walking on eggshells.
Oh boy is this ringing the bells. So glad I am not in that relationship any more.
EXCELLENT! As I've witnessed, heavy on the manipulation and passive aggression. Childlike expectations of partner's ability to read her mind and cater to needs, and tantrums when unmet. Silent treatment/avoidance also a big part, often when sparked by misperception (erroneously perceived insult).
Great material, and practical resource for understanding, and thence all positives that flow therefrom.
Thanks, Doctor Grande. Big Help!!!
That sounds like Enmeshment. When the person expects you to match their emotional state. Or help regulate their emotions for them. Or be their venting outlet. Or all 4 at the same time!
They're mad, you have to be mad too. Your happy but they are'nt? Uh oh, they wont like that! How dare you be a seperate individual with your own internal reality. 😔
@@eps4560 my spouse... Have to protect his ego, have to validate all his emotions and experience them with him.
Thank you for these insights, Dr.Grande. There's so much focus on grandiose narcissism that vulnerable narcissism is often left by the wayside.
Wow. This was my mom. When she played the victim, she became a martyr. She was very good at telling if someone was lying or not. She was extremely entitled. She was the Queen Bee of the household. The staunch Matriarch that could not be disobeyed. When one of us 5 kids disobeyed her, that sibling was ostracized, and made to feel lower than dirt. She exerted so much control over everything, everyone in the family, except my father, whom I speculate was a Grandiose Narcissist.
I honestly don't know how I escaped becoming a Narcissist myself! I think I may have some traits, but I can feel compassion and empathy for others. And I am more introspective than most. Still, I worry...
Ha, as I read this comment I had to check the name to make sure it wasn't one of my siblings. very similar scenario when I was growing up. I was confused at the overall attention and admiration she got from everyone. Because of how cruel and cold she could be. but because she was always helping others and was available to others, everyone gravitated towards her. She had a lot of good, but also flipped the switch so easily.
Take heart. It is said that if you are worried that you are a narcissist, you are not a narcissist. After 15 years with somebody who sounds very much like with this video describes and also has some borderline traits, I can assure you that I was accused of being a narcissist. I had myself tested. I mean, it’s horrifying, isn’t it? You don’t want to be like that. So, you want to get yourself tested so that you can start receiving some kind of therapy to make you stop being a narcissist. well, anyway, my psychologist actually laughed when I asked her if she thought I was a narcissist. Apparently, they are unable to even contemplate the possibility that they might be a narcissist.
This video helped me so much after I was discarded by my NXW. It happened across my feed as I attempted to distract myself from the grief by watching TH-cam videos, and this opened my eyes and helped me to move on. I'm now in a much healthier relationship, and aside from residual anxiety, I am happy.
Well, you described my disastrous 8 year marriage to a T! I have never been through something so mind blowing and destructive in my life! We have been separated/divorced for 2 years now and it literally took me about a year and a half to start feeling like myself again. And when you described manipulation, I thought and still think my ex is the master of manipulation! I cannot begin to tell you just how caustic our relationship was! I literally shut down and stopped all interaction with her because I knew what would come of it! I lost all confidence in myself and during our last 2 years of marriage, I would literally come home, go to the bedroom and do everything I could to avoid her. She had 3 children from prior marriages and I loved all 3 as if they were my own. And it killed me to see the mental abuse she would put them through. And several times she would physically abuse them. And all 3 were above 18 years old! The hold she had over them was scary to witness and my heart leapt out to them for the cruelty she enacted on them. When we finally separated, it was if I was reborn. I knew if I had stayed, it would have been the death of me! The mental trauma and anguish I went through has soured me towards wanting to date again. I would love nothing more than to find my soulmate. But after everything I was put through, I see red flags with practically every single woman I talk with. I’m sure that they are probably fine ladies but the thought of making another mistake and finding another nutcase prevents me from attempting to take the next step. And many times I find myself wondering if I will ever be happy and whole again? Thank you doc! Listening to this helps me understand how right I was for leaving.
Fight for yourself, go to a therapy❤. Out of narcissistic relationship with men and people - they didn’t want to settle down with family and kids, they were constantly chasing other options. I was never enough for them. Trying to meet new friends and the one to settle down with, but so many of them are projecting their past experience onto me and are afraid of commitment at all. I am left alone in cold.
Best bet is 0 contact. If u are looking for some kind of snow white out here in the real world, best of luck, don't waste your time. All u are going to find is me me me mine, and what I can extract from you. By nature I am not a self centered, greedy person, but seeing I'm a product of my environment, I'm just like everyone else now.
You pick a crazy that suits you best brother. May as well be a woman that's very attractive other wise you really ain't getting anything out of it
@@ryannaylor2905 I had a very attractive crazy, and kicked her to the curb w no thought given. Crazy is not cute, it's draining.
Most of them are nutcases
In my marriage, my wife's attitude about the relationship was more in line with a grandiose narcissist. She never showed any interest in establishing a close meaningful bond between us and she sabotaged my attempts to draw us closer.
1.Highly neurotic. Depressive.
2. History of inconsistent discipline in childhood.
3. Wife is highly manipulative. Plays the victim, blames the husband.
4. Wife's self esteem is contingent on others.
5. Wife is emotionally distant. She says she wants to be closer , she is emotionally complex.
6.Wife is shaken to the core when criticised by the husband.
She has difficulty regulating emotions.
7. Has difficulty maintaining a positive self image. Failures in her life are turned into big successes in her head.
8.Wife has trouble explaining her feelings. Pronounced lack of insight.
9. "Taking something personally", hypersensitive to differing opinions. Criticises people, ego has to be protected.
10. Envy is converted into schadenfreude. Laughs at and ridicules people.
As for my ex-wife, the childhood "inconsistent discipline" took the form of her BPD Mom loving her at times, and screaming and throwing things at other times without a known reason. That loved-right-now, then scared-and-threatened the next out of no where, was probably the single biggest issue that took my ex-wife from being mostly kind to me, to our ultimate demise when marriage trials came up and she turned vile just as you explained. I knew why she did the things she did as a psych major, but had I known that vulnerable narcissism existed, I wouldn't have let myself or the kids get emotionally abused, or let my loving empath-self get bullied. It's heartbreaking for everyone. Abuse just sucks. It's awful for everyone; and that includes the abuser. Yes, I can still see the girl I loved through all the hate. She's just buried in this. Thank you for defining this (again), in another one of your great videos on this subject! It blesses me, and will bless my kids as they grow up.
I wish my Dad had known of it and could have saved himself... he loved and cared too much and suffered too much for a mirage. Sometimes life brings lessons the hard way.
Such a sad situation! Thank you for sharing your story and insight.
Sad indeed, i had a counselor recently ask me if it would have made difference if i knew what was going on ? I told the moron bloody right it would have ! I would not have been so confused and angry ! And my kids would not have had to see me that way ! Take care brother 🤝
Thank you for sharing, it means so much. I'm 13 years in this marriage and figured out a few years back she was a narcissist as, things just didn't make sense nor add up, I just didn't know what type. Now I know, in specific and in detail what she really is...with her, adversity is oppertunity and around every corner.
I loved this comment. I also see the beautiful person inside the narcissists in my life. I wish they could heal too.
My son married a woman that fits every single point Dr Grande mentions. She managed to drag him to the altar when he returned from Afghanistan. She is so mean to him but has him by the balls because she has 2 kids who he adores and would never want to take them away from their mother
Loved hearing about the correlates with environment and development of vulnerable narcissism.
My mom is a covert narcissist and it took me 30 years to realize it… She is a master manipulator who uses guilt trips and gas lighting. A conundrum of insecurities while thinking she’s better than the rest. Narcissist moms seem to favour their sons over daughters which also affected me. Aging is extremely hard for these people as well as so much is put in the exterior, which is causing her mask to slip even more these days. Anything can be perceived as an insult by them and you’ll be given the silent treatment with passive aggressive attitude for days never realizing what you did wrong. These people are dangerous and should be kept at arms length.
Sounds like my mum… and I was the black sheep of the family trying to protect my codependent dad…
@@elin_8400 my mom also. My dad i am seeing is a narc, not just a codependent as i previously thought.
@@elin_8400Your Dad should have protected you. I'm also the black sheep, my brother was the golden child.
Took me 40 years :/ What you have written could have been written about my own mother, word for word. I'm so tired. It's been a year since I went no contact. On Monday, I went up to the park to check on my son, because he'd been gone far longer than agreed, and found her up there sneaking a visit with him. I'm still so angry. Her boundary violations never bloody end.
💡wow! My therapist suggested I was living with a narcissistic wife, but I wouldn’t accept that, but you have nailed it! She is not Grandiose, but vulnerable, which totally makes sense. Thank You!!!!!
Dr Grande, your many videos have given me much insight, understanding and comfort. I’m deeply grateful, thank you so much 🙏🏼
This particular one describes my mother to the T! I’ve gone through so much pain and torture as a child and to another degree as an adult, it is nice to see some of my own hodgepodge ideas borne from years of trying to figure out this most basic of relationship, supported by you and others from an objective and clinical standpoint. It truly helps me see through the gaslighting and overcome the cognitive dissonance. I’m at peace now and better able to relate to her without being caught up in the usual maelstrom of pain, confusion, manipulation and guilt.
This guy nailed EVERY description of my wife exactly. He outlined every reaction that my wife displays in vulnerable narcissistic condition. I’m archiving this video.
Definitely going into the favorites folder.
Make sure she doesn't see the archived video or else.
@@TimLagerstrom She doesn't do TH-cam
I grew up with a narcissistic mother. I don’t want to be anything like her... however, this video definitely highlights some areas where I’m just like her with my husband. It’s hard to hear, but It seems I should seek help. I don’t want to be this way or think this way.
@ohmyfefe My husband and his family are so carefree and loving. Since I didn’t grow up this way, it’s so hard to know what I should be doing as a wife. I’ve learned so much from his parents but a lot more from mine.. I was actually pretty shocked his dad has never talked bad about any of his kids even when they were in the wrong. It blew my mind.
@brandim, it's been 3 years since your comment, did you seek help? did you make any progress? this video describes me unfortunately and i've been struggling to change since i finally acknowledged who i am 4 months ago... i wish there were more helpful resources online and support cirlces for people like me...
@@red-swan-looking-in-the-mirror I haven’t sought out any help on this as of yet. I’ve just been more mindful of my actions and thought processes. My husband is probably the sweetest man alive, yet he’s forgetful and clueless at times. I have to remind myself he’s innocent and good and nothing like my mom or dad. If he forgets it’s not out of spite or that he doesn’t care about me, it’s genuinely that he forgot or didn’t know. It’s hard to understand this coming from my background. There wasn’t a time where my mom or dad “was unaware” and if they forgot something, it was intentional because they wanted attention or just to hurt me. I have to remind myself my husband is good and not view his actions with the same lens that I have to use with my parents, bc they’re not the same at all and it’s a blessing to have him. I want to treat him like the blessing he is.
The scariest T-shirt I ever saw on a mother at school: "If Momma ain't happy, then no one is happy."
Yeah! People would laugh at that saying as if it was funny or smart. It seemed to scary and ugly to me. Like happiness in there family was contingent on one person's manic emotional state.
I thought of it as "Mommas not going to feel like taking care of everyone else if she is not taken care of/caring for herself" but ....yeah I can see the scary in it too from a mental health standpoint
@@adamv4951 Perhaps.
@@acolley2891shhh
The person wearing it could take it as a joke, I think it really depends. Because the narcissistic parent would not be so conscious of their actions and states because of regulatory struggles and mal adaptation. They would deny it probably or feel criticized if the topic was brought up to them.
I've been researching Narcissism, NPD, traits and symptoms, cause and effects,.etc. But have been having real trouble trying to figure out my future X-wife of 13 years. She has traits (Out of 1-10 per personality type, ave. between 1 to 5) of every narcissistic personality type cataloged. But after watching this video,..I now know for a fact she is a true vulnerable narcissist. Every word spoken in this video,..i mean every single damn word,.. is my wife!! I ruined my life thinking i could help her, in many different ways,. it always turned against me, and depending on the flip, the current mood, the sun shined that day,.wtf ever! would have signs thrown in to where, she is more the malignant or covert type in in reactions, manipulation tactics,.promoting or provoking even violence in arguments. pushing me intentionally until things get violent. And after walks away smiling, like mission accomplished. and then takes that in-mind with her smear campaign. plays the victim not only to make me the bad guy, i'm the narcissist,. but also tries to portray the victim to me, even when we're not arguing. and in the snap of a finger,..FLIP,.. she's raging. i could go on & on,. now were separated, i'm caught up in ruminating, trauma bonded,.suicidal thoughts from the shame of it all. and i know its not what i should be doing for myself to heal, move on,. its never ending! I KNOW BETTER,.. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME?????
You've been severely traumatized. I can totally relate and believe me, it does stay with you, you just learn to not let it affect you so much. Hoping you can get to a better place!
narcissism just seems like a lot of work. easier to just be an honest person.
we're good, polite, honest people
@@virces6563 a grain of sand honest and a heap of deceit.
I disagree! It's a lot more difficult to be an honest person. E.g. honest with one's self, and not constantly blame, project, and deflect. Being honest means having humility, and taking responsibility for own's own mistakes and shortcomings. I think this takes much more candor and self-awareness, and is thus why many people don't or can't do it. Personally, I don't know how to be anyone other than myself, and I have a strong sense of conviction between right and wrong. I'm not a religious person, or was raised that way. But for some reason ever since I was very young, I've stood up for he kids that were picked on, or spoke back to the teacher who wasn't been fair or nice to myself or other students. I guess I'm just an empath, which I always say is the greatest blessing and curse. I often look back at my life and feel that things would have been so much easier if I weren't one. But I'm proud to be a sensitive and vulnerable human being, and I wear my humanity proudly on my sleeve!
@@OnsceneDC well, i truly do not have a problem being myself, being humble and admitting when I am wrong or could do better. i am always self checking to see how I can do better. I am honest to a fault possibly.
@@conniethingstad1070 I'm curious to know what you mean by "honest to a fault"? Recently I've been giving a lot of thought to the concept of honesty because I've dealt with a lot of deception in my life. I think there are the lies we tell ourselves and then the lies we tell other people.
Great. I had 16 years with a Vulnerable Narcissist. I will have to watch this again. It is an an extremely confusing relationship to have. The lack of insight is very difficult. You correct them for simple thing and your will reap maximum aggression, rage, hostility, etc. They can not attach.
Very true. Zero insight. Zero self-awareness. It's like living with a paradox of constant self-contradiction. Even when you've obeyed, you'll be cast as disobeying. Even when you agree, you'll be cast as disagreeing. It is to live in a perpetual no-win & be told it's all your fault no matter what.
Thank you for this wonderful explanation with my wife 25 years and in the last half, I now realize she has been developing a narcissistic personality. Her mother definitely is so it seems like she is putting those lessons from childhood into motion. Her father abused her mom when she was very young. I feel like she is putting that anger towards him and directing it to me. Though eventually her mother broke her dad down and she became his enabler and he became a feeble dysfunctional alcoholic dependent on the mom for financial support of his alcoholic unemployed lifestyle.
Became a stay at home dad 3 years ago after years of my wife asking me to. Now I realize this was all kind of a trap for me. This video is confirming other traits that are in line with my belief that she’s a narcissist.
At least now I realize there is little chance of things getting better. Sadly they are only going to get worse. Now I’m left to leave her and deal with all the challenges that life will bring upon me but at least I know I can save myself from things getting so awful that I might find myself in a hole of total despair by her narcissistic ways.
One of the things you mention and I had already come to believe is that she has ZERO idea of her feelings. She doesn’t like to share her emotions. And I realize that she doesn’t know what she is feeling. I feel sad for her in that way.
Another point is number 10. I started to believe that she was envious of me, of my intellect and how I am able to self reflect and articulate those thoughts and feelings. I sensed that she found pleasure in trying to knock down my ego out of envy.
And it really makes sense why she didn’t want me to work. She saw her mom set up her dad in this way as becoming the bread winner. And that made him highly dependent on her. I sacrificed so much for her to have a career in nursing. And sadly after 3 years of not working, I will be setback horribly in my line of work. And also at my age in my 50’s.
It’s so painful but at least I have clarity of what needs to be done. I have been feeling like she would just slowly have me kill my self esteem to the point of letting myself fall apart and be driven into the dirt.
The sad part is the effect this will have on my kids.
Man, do I relate to that!
@@mikejohn0088 sorry big Mike
Schadenfreude takes the place of envy?? WOW, Dr! That’s some useful insight.
Mind blown 😳
Naw. There are people in my circle of trust who've done me wrong or have been indifferent to my struggles and pain, that I know they can only understand when the same is done unto them, but not necessarily by me.
I feel no regret with my satisfaction.
@@NickNicometi You just proved the point lmao
People keep score of remarkable, useless things…
This is why there is a parable of the unjust steward, a man who knew to cancel debts of others in order to free himself.
If you hold others to account, you yourself are in bondage.
Thank you for this lecture video, realised what is going on in the 7 years of my marriage, the violent reactions to innocuous criticism, the splitting with a rage directed at me as if we've nothing to do with each other, incessant criticism and blaming in private and occasional praise in front of others, the gaslighting, the manipulation, the shifting of blame, my isolation from any meaningful company to express myself and yet no meaningful connection on close proximity, her inability to be happy with herself through a hobby or leisure. The sudden rage for no reason, the resentment if I attended to a relative or a pet because she thought she is neglected, my dread on our anniversary or her birthdays as she will not specify as to what she wants, and later sulking at what she got..
Her condescending attitude towards others,her lack of empathy towards subordinates and even superiors and me..
her ineptitude to do any favour to anyone at a disadvantage.
Her sister(grandiose) and mom(vulnerable) having similar traits...
Now I have a 5y old son and can't call it quits...
Will try some of the suggestions to mitigate the inevitable tensions and uncertainty In this relationship..
I think that out of all comments I've read so far here, that what you're describing sounds the most like what this is to deal with. I know, the passive aggressive stuff, the getting defense and rude whenever one expresses any of their own needs or wants, or when something needs to be done differently. Going into a rage over very small stuff. The quiet arrogance in their tone of voice, in the eyes. I've been there, done that. And yes, the one I deal with has her hobbies too.
You have both described 2 of my relatives precisely and I regret to inform you that it gets worse with age, not better unless ofcourse that narcissistic person wants it to and is willing to do the work. It's like being an alcoholic. There is no cure only treatment.
What plans do you have to protect your 5 years old son? Are there any concrete steps that you are planning to take?
wow- I read your comment - this is so recognizable:
"Her inability to be happy with herself through a hobby or leisure. "
"Her ineptitude to do any favour to anyone at a disadvantage"
So sad to read this. Take care of yourself brother and hope you can find some peace.
THIS explains a lot! Thank you Dr. Grande.
I get so happy when I see a notification 😉
Thanks, Dr. Grande. Your videos help me on my healing journey. They shift my perspective from "it was all my fault" (as my ex let me believe) to "it was due to her narcissistic personality". This video even made it clear to me, how much my ex herself is a victim of her own personality issues. She behaved abusively, but she was full of shame and fragility. I'm better than that.
This is brilliant and really helpful. I am currently battling to be able to see my newborn son (whom my ex fiancé has withheld from me for 9 months now) in the middle of a smear campaign and have been totally discarded the moment I finally stood up for myself, but so many more things are coming to light now in how she interacted with me and others in the relationship, it was horrible. This explanation highlights so many of those things in a clear and concise way.
I found your explanation very clear and relatable to my situation.
16 years married with a beautiful wife but she scores 9 out of your 10 points.
We're now at the point of going to therapy but she's very reluctant in going. So we're doing it for me to control my anger issues.
Anger that comes out, once every few weeks after arguing over the same issues every time and letting it building up inside me.
And I really want to work on that, but then I need her to make some changes in her behaviour too.
She'not able to take any responsibilty, is very jealous, is not thoughtful at all towards me and is very neurotic.
If I was just able to change just one of these characteristics.
Dude this is exactly what I deal with...... and I'm struggling to figure things out.... but literally exactly every point you made is what I find is an issue in my wife and I's relationship... she keeps looking for any reason to blame me. And when it's not quite so easy to do so, I'm often gaslit and told basically my life, symptoms, and emotions are all symptomatic of mental health disorders.
We fight all the time intensely over almost nothing that can possibly be worth fighting about let alone so intensely.
It just escalates everytime. She always has something to "address" with me or my behaviours..There is never a discussion. It's just literally me being told, even if it takes all night, that I'm the problem and I need to understand that fact.. I dont have to argue back for that to happen.. I also continuously try to get help with what I can myself, but that's exactly the issue as well, is I can't get anywhere if she doesn't make changes herself! I feel hopeless.
Sometimes it's even really awkward.. and it even feels like I'm dealing with a delusional person. .. Because I would suspect they see how they are acting.. And that its obvious to them that they are acting out in some way. But she seems to actually believe she is right..
did you have any progress after 1 year? did you find any helpeful methods or resources? This video describes me and i desperately want to change, i would appreciate any advice, because no matter how hard i try, i still keep failing in many ways.
You're back into the right position in front of the camera doc, because I can see the top of your head again 👍
Brilliant video Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
This has GOT to be my favorite of yours.. it fills in so many blanks I could not understand.
Ask them to do something for you. Something small. Something you would do for them with no hesitation.
If they are narcissistic or otherwise toxic, it will ALWAYS go at least 1 of 4 ways (though sometimes these reactions may compound):
1. They will act as though they didn’t hear you
Depending on how long you’ve been in the relationship, you may ask again. If it’s been long enough, you’re likely to drop the request right then and there.
2. They will promise to do it, but never follow through
If you ask again or remind them, they will usually have some kind of excuse. In these cases, they will still never actually fulfill their promise. Their excuse is not a reason for lagging, it is the reason they should be absolved from all expectation whatsoever. Often this excuse will be meaningless or an outright lie.
If you don’t buy their excuse, and tell them so, you will experience the wonderful segue into reaction 3:
3. An argument will ensue
The argument will be your fault. It could be a small back and forth contending against your request, or it might quickly devolve into them screaming at you. You never know which it will be. They might even say outright that you should never ask or expect anything from them. Usually they will express that you are asking too much, hurting them in some way (financially, emotionally, insulting them, etc), or attack your character.
The argument will only end when you relinquish your request + apologize, or start ignoring them completely. If you can ignore them long enough, they may apologize to you. However, the conflict will never feel truly resolved.
At this juncture they may actually end up giving you what you asked for. Often this does require you admitting that you don’t really need it, or that you would be fine with what they suggested instead. This leads us to reaction 4:
4. They give you what you asked for, BUT
There is ALWAYS a catch. It might be small. They show up late with no apology. They buy you what you wanted, but it’s the wrong color, model, brand, etc. They take you where you wanted to go, but pressure you the whole time you’re getting ready because you’re going to be sooo late. Then they want to leave early anyway.
It might be worse. They do it out of anger, and make a big display out of it to scare/hurt you. They hold it over your head until you do something for them first. Or, later on, they use it against you. “I did x for you, so you should do y for me.” No matter what, you never actually feel fulfilled, happy, or loved when they do something for you. Somehow, even from the getgo, there was this deep-seated feeling of guilt and fear, this sense that the “special” things they were doing for you weren’t so special at all. Eventually, you become afraid to ask for anything. You’ve been conditioned to believe you deserve nothing. Ironically, or not, the less demands you make, the worse you will be treated. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done *Metaspyhub@gmail. com* ,,
Wow this is accurate
Know my wife for 15 years. Married to her for 8 years.
Only started to realize that she is a vaunrable narcissist. This explains all the confusion I had while knowing her. Didn't understand her behavior.
After studying this condition I tried to approach her on it.
That was a bad idea. She doesn't know or accept that she is.
She took it as an hated attack on her.
Now she is filing for deforce.
There is so much hatred now. Not surprised to hear that I am the problem.
We have a beautiful 5 year old daughter who needs us to be together.
Hope my wife will change her mind. I still love her. I am still in love like the day I saw her for the first time.
She is still a great wife and wonderfull loving mother.
I'll accept her like that but now its a tad to late😢
she'll never change. You overexposed her inner dark emptyness. She will overaccuse you for everything and you'll try to take on you as much blame as possible and showing it arround. You should stay polite , firm and not show any emotion. You should value YOURSELF first. You can tell her that her insight is badly compromised and that you are sorry you haven't recognized this earlier. She will take the blows in ways to accuse you even more and in no way she'll take responsibility for anything. You're in for a lot.
Thank you for your videos on vulnerable narcissist behaviours. I have been researching this subject as I am currently at my wits end with my partner and desperately trying to understand her thought processes and reasoning behind her actions which are 90% in tune with your descriptions. A young child (now 11) has been the glue that has kept us together, 18 years in to a relationship and although heavily invested both financially and with a young child I have had to address the issue head on, with little success, mostly having all problems deflected back at me without any sound logic behind the argument. Further to this her inability to remain calm and discuss problems logically leaves us going nowhere fast. I fully understand that I will become the villan to her dramas when I leave. Luckily for me there are some that have already seen behind the curtain and understand her illusions of happiness are just that, a public show, however I know others will judge my actions, family included, who have fallen for the act. Starting my life over at 45 won't be the easiest thing I've ever done, but the luxury to put my own mind in to a positive, productive place is something money cannot buy.
I would hope that you can be there for your child. Having a stable consistent parent could make the difference between the pattern repeating or not.
It can be a long, horrible haul staying, but if your child has to live with a narcissist parent without daily intervention....
I truly hope you can protect your child through this.
Thank you Dr. Grande for this very good explanation.
With this I can probably label a family member of mine with this kind of narcissism.
And believe me, this person is not easy to handle.
Thank you for bringing this into light, Dr. Grande!! The truth of the matter is this is the source of many problems of narcissistic encounters. The feeling of being vulnerable is justified to project many narcissistic behavioral traits. It is individual responsibility to overcome the feeling of "being vulnerable". Nobody can do anyone's homework, especially when they've got the teaching of good values available for access daily. Again, thank you, Doc, and God bless.🙏🤞
After watching these videos I’m starting to think almost every other person is narcissistic, at least around my parts. Holidays are fun. yaaaay! 😏
@Life is a Journey though break. Do you think its related to your work or location?
@Life is a Journey That’s awesome. I’m not in the position to remove people from my life; but I’m trying to establish solid boundaries.
@Dirk Jensen sorry. don’t mean to sound rude. I’m not comfortable answering that particular question.
I live in the Mecca of narcissists. But I also come across empaths everyday. To me, these folks stand out even more, so when I come across them I try to hold onto them because they are few!
@M Z I agree that academia is full of narcissists, but I've also encountered many in my own career. For some reason, dealing with narcissists have been a completely different situation in my professional life than my personal life. It's much easier to impose and enforce boundaries with colleagues. However, it's so much more complicated when it's with your own family!
Your videos helped me gain insight regarding my vulnerable narcissistic traits. Of course, one thing is to see it and another thing is to try and change anything. This is one of the most stubborn distortions of thinking, it seems. Who knows how life would have turned out should I have seen and heard this 20 years ago. Glad to see this kind of work popularized.
Thank you for this presentation. I always find Vulnerable Narcissism a difficult subject to grasp
I really appreciate you giving some insight into the pain behind narcissism.
Best information I’ve seen so far. Thank you
I watched this and ended up being totally horrified everything he said completely describes a particular person in my life!
Same here. What have you done
@@mavrick1297 well it took me 12 years to impose boundaries and to actually realise that I am not responsible for all the bad things that happened to this person! I finally realised that no matter how much I tried to understand them and try to make them happy the bitterness was inside of them and there was nothing I could do or should to help them! These kinds of people use guilt and victim behaviour to make you feel sorry for them! It's all nonsense, drop them and cut contact or learn to day no!
A relatively insignificant video as far as views go, but the impact on my life was vastly significant.
The Schadenfreude. And when her dark mood strikes, the bully comes out.
On one or two rare occasions that we had open confrontation she opened up about her wounded childhood, it was apparent an extremely difficulty for her to let go of that pain. But that opportunity to get a good handle on that inner conflict passed because the shame was overpowering her resolve to work past it and move on. And it continues like a rollercoaster ride
I have been reading about and looking at videos about narcissism for the last couple of days, strongly suspecting that my wife falls into that category / personality type. A lot of information regarding narcissism has fit on her but it has never felt close enough or spot on to me, until i found this video! My wife is for sure not of the grandiose type, that is the one that almost all sources on this topic will address, and not the vulnerable type. So THANK YOU for this clarification and breakdown it helps me a lot.
Thanks Doc, I still needed to hear this a second time.
Looking through each comment it is reassuring to see how the garbage I have been going through and currently still am, makes sense. Its hard NOT to feel sorry for them but at the same time they crack you over the head with an emotionally manipulative hammer and you keep thinking... why the hell can't I break away., what the hell is wrong with me!!
Experienced all 10 signs (with ex-wife) and was very frustrating until recently. Before watching your scientifically based videos, there was a sense of toxicity, but could not articulate or define those actions with an understanding of mental health into the constant and continual actions described. For me, it seems these 10 signs are more common than not, and am much more guarded with who I hold hands with.
DeltaDan, Amen Brother!!! Like you it took me almost 15 years of marriage before I saw these signs being revealed by my wife. I suspected depression or borderline, but now after watching hundreds of narcissism videos I'm convinced she's a covert. This spring I reached my breaking point and left her after 25 years. For the prior 18 months she demanded we divorce and wanted me to leave. The day that I left she started hoovering and now denies saying she wanted a divorce. I have to save myself from the devastating cumulative effects of long term abuse, my mental and physical health took a major toll from all the stress she induced in me.
Everyone in this will appears to be narcissistic one way or the the other ,everyone has some kind of childhood past that labels them narcissist. Only Gods can help those who seeks the help and change for better.
super interesting, I wasn't aware that agreeableness & neurosis was linked with vulnerable narcissism
sleepy_cat situational agreeableness
I have been doing a lot of research into narcissism for a long time and recently got acquainted with the idea of an overt vs covert narc. I came here after watching a couple of Richard Grannon's videos. This video makes so much sense to me and your last point has just really empowered me and opened my eyes!! Honestly, I got used to being devalued and started to strongly believe there is something wrong with me thanks to the barrage of insults when she was angry. Now I can understand on a much deeper level what is going on. Your last point just had such a profound impact on me. It could indeed be true that I am normal and a good guy and that she cannot stand that to the point where she has to call me idiot, stupid, dumb, loser *insert your favourite insult here*...I cannot thank you enough for making this video.
Your explanations rock! I have recently realized that my Mom was a narcissist, & you are exceedingly helpful. Thank you. ♥️✌🏽
This is the best (most easily understood) description of covert narcissism that I have heard. Thank you.
"say you wanted to get a vehicle that was fuel efficient, and there's only one thing that you can know about this car"
*goes into drag/aerodynamics, the weight, the engine*
me, an intellectual: How Many Miles Per Gallon
Rowan S thats exactly what i was thinking.
Me as a German "how many liters per 100km".
Hahahaha!
This is when I knew Doc was a car guy.
7 years into a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist and I am just starting to figure all of this out. Unfortunately, I and my special needs daughter are financially dependant on my wife, and currently the only way to exit the situation would be to return to my own country, leaving my daughter without her primary carer and alone in the black cloud as you so adequetely described it. The worst part is the realisation of the transfer of some of some the traits of this vulnerability. The insecurity, distrust of friends and equating sex, or lack there-of to a lack of love. The lack of love is unrelated to me, and the lack of intimacy is a part of punishment for bringing a special needs child into her life and causing that change from the obviously preferable grandeous, to the vulnerable. Thank you for helping me begin to understand the dynamic. I hope at the least it will prevent me from keeping her company in the misery.
Been married to a woman like this for over 20 years now. She has no idea, it’s completely integrated, but I remember instances even back when we were dating where her reaction to certain things were completely bizarre and alien to me. There was a time when we were living away from our hometown together and her mom fell and broke her kneecap, she got legitimately angry at me for living out of town instead of recognizing that accidents happen, she has agency and we moved and made the decision together, and that you deal with life as it happens. If you want to help your mom I’ll book you a ticket and off you go. It was so emotionally immature and lacked self awareness that I was more confused than anything. Then over the years I recognized a whole suite of strange behaviors; she could never apologize and would maintain a state of silent rage for months with seemingly no concern or desire for reconciliation. I would have to be the one to approach and even then I’d end up uncorking anger. My professional success would make her uncomfortable. It was practically impossible for her to acknowledge any fault or come to a compromise in any disagreement. She would also have these fits of extreme self loathing. We finally got into counseling and she would almost start onto a script. Like it would be things that didn’t mirror reality. Dr Grande mentions the claim that she “wants a close personal relationship but the husband just doesn’t understand” - she did exactly that, and when I’d call her out on this fantasy, documenting all the times I’d reached out with letters and long winded texts trying to open our relationship up with zero effort to reciprocate on her part, she would literally freeze. When she realized that the therapist could see what she was saying didn’t mesh with the real world she would get viscerally upset and actually stormed out of our final joint session. She had an inability to express her actual feelings or express motivations in relationships. If you described a relationship to her and then asked her to speculate on the motivations of the people in the relationship she would struggle like she’s reaching for the right answer on an exam instead of flowing with a reasoned and rational understanding of normal social/relational dynamics. I remember having this revelation that there’s very little depth there and being horrified and perplexed at the same time. I went through a period of mourning realizing that the connection I wanted to have with her is practically impossible. I love her so I’m still here but it’s weird being with someone who lacks true depth and is incapable of comprehending themselves much less their partner.
Interesting analysis.
How can you love an empty shell ?
Only you can decide what to do, but in my opinion you should leave and safeguard yourself. Narcissists bring nothing but pain and despair. Don't sacrifice yourself for someone who can't be saved. Even firefighters know this. It's tragic, but there's no reason to ruin two lives because of narcissism instead of one. Save yourself while you can.
I have been married to a covert narc for 20 years, the first 10 years were sort of ok while she was a stay at home Mum but in 2012 as the economy worsened I asked her to get a job and help contribute to the familiy and all hell broke loose. She is violent, has had me thrown in jail 3 times and I have appeared in court twice, both which I won. Coverts are bullies and are weak, so the last time the Police came round and I was kicked out of my home that I paid for and my name is on the title and subject to a prenup I had had enough of her and the bent Police Force. I had bought her a car subject to a finance condition which she had not met so I got a metal pole and smashed the Merc to pieces. Of course I was arrested for criminal damage but I won because I had bought the car and paid for it but I believe that taught her she had crossed a boundry and that I am willing to use violence and she has been like a lamb since. I do not talk to her anymore and only discuss our son. She has been trying to replace me by trying to meet up with guys and having affairs but she has caught 3 stds for her trouble. My attitude now is do not interfere with the enemy when they are in the process of distroying themselves. I am sitting this out until the "reset" happens..... I believe they are returning to Common Law which means the crooked courts will enforce my prenup. At the moment my 13 year old has access to me and his Mum which is a good thing and it also gives him the opportunity to see the bahaviour of his own Mum. She goes out all the time meeting random dudes instead of spending time with him. She has already lost her eldest son, she kicked him out because he got a girlfriend and she was not going to tollerate competition with another women. Narcs are just evil people.
@@horiboyablemgtow7842 made my chest tight reading this. Good luck to you. Our son had a health issue which combined with marital stress caused an autoimmune response in me. Be careful and remember to relax, find time meditation and stillness, or you’ll end up subconsciously hurting yourself and end up with some chronic health problem.
This is an information bomb worth listening to several times and better than any college lesson I have ever been to.
The wife takes the phrase ' taking things personally' into an entire different perspective. 😂
Love your sense of humor, dr. Todd. And thank you for your video's. They are so interesting and informative.
My mother has to be a vulnerable narcissist. She was described here perfectly. I’m very empathetic and believe my father was grandiose narcissist. My mother directed most of her issues on me, not my father as much. My one sibling is grandiose. He was the golden child. I’ve often wondered about how similar my brother and mother’s mind work. Narcissism explains it all and with my brother, I believe it’s both nature and nurture.
This was so helpful. Thank you.
LMB925 do you think there is any way possible for both parents to be narcissistic? I suspect my mother to be a covert and my father an overt. I must admit that it is very hard for me to accept my mother being one as I was the one taking her side all the time as she was “the victim”....
@@tianaswing3874 Tiana Swing Yes. I think both parents can be narcissist. I too, grew up thinking my father was the abuser and my mother the victim. I saw her as the child and I tried to defend her. As I got older I realized she enjoyed her martyrdom and identified with being a victim. Later, I realized she never did anything she didn't want to do. She never showed any empathy and often was highly manipulative and cruel. I go could on, but it was mostly summed up here and in other similar videos, as I'm sure you can also identify with.
I think my mother is without a doubt a covert/vulnerable narcissist, and highly suspect my father is a grandiose/overt. Although, I have some doubt with my father as he seem capable of some level of sympathy and understanding as he got older. I'm not sure, though. It was very little and often was not without motive. Both my parent were extremely cruel and self involved. I certainly don't know if there are other issues at play. Narcissism isn't the only explanation for cruelty and neglect. Either way, I've just started really researching it and there is certainly discussion that indicates you can have both parents be narcissist. Dr. Ramani mentions it several times in her videos.
I'm finding both Dr. Todd Grande & Dr. Ramani's videos to be very helpful and have decided to seek therapy. If you haven't seen Dr. Ramani, I suggest doing a search and diving in. This information has really opened my eye. I've considered therapy for a long time, but didn't pursue for so many reasons. My mental state has extremely deteriorated the past several years and hearing all these things that explain so much has given validity to my problems and helped me to realize they aren't a figment of imagination.
I think if you suspect both your parents to be narcissist, it is a very real possibility and it'd be a good idea to take Dr. Todd's advice and seek counseling too to help you sort through it. If you suspect it, there's something not right there and it may be helpful to examine it, whatever it ends up being. I sincerely wish the best of luck to you.
LMB925 I’ve only now seen your answer! I’ve watched Dr.Ramani and other related channels for 2 years now. God bless you in your recovery! Sending positive vibes!!!
I've been watching your videos this evening. Very informative. As much as I don't want to admit it, I display many of these traits and traits of BPD. I was diagnosed Bipolar 23 years ago but I'm wondering if I need to have my doctor reevaluate me and add a diagnosis or something. I'm going through a divorce and I'm willing to bet all of this contributed somehow. It makes me sick thinking about it.
Love your videos will continue watching. I've had this type of relaltionships in the past so l decided to stay single and not take women so seriously and watch out for these characteristic in all people. Thank you for your inside knowledge of this type of people.
I watched my Narc mother train my sister to also be a Narc. It's a fascinating dynamic - though not a fun one to live through.
Dr Grande, Many thanks for your very analytical, educative , and highly enlightening broadcasts.
Kindly throw a little more light on the last sign (the 10th ) of a wife with narcissistic traits.
Thank you.
😰 this sounds so much like my sister... is there an way to help someone that acts like this? I really miss my sister & I feel we are so distant because she acts this way 😞
You can’t change them but you can recommend they see a therapist to help with their depression/anxiety, as vulnerable narcs will have issues with these things usually. Don’t tell them you think they’re a narc, just act supportive when you tell them they should look into therapy. If they get a good therapist, the therapist will see what’s going on and slowly help them to become more self aware and reduce the other issues.
As a vulnerable narcissist in therapy I am sorry to hear what this type of abuse has done to so many people in the comments. Unfortunately vulnerable narcissism doesn't get diagnosed as such. And therefore is not treated appropriately. I can tell from my own experience. Being in therapy for years no one ever explained to me that there might have been a problem. Only a few weeks ago I realised that the overcompensatory type in addition to my ptsd diagnosis means vulnerable narcissism. In one video Dr. Grande explained how to cover narcissistic traits. It's a bit contra intuitive but it definitely helped to build some meaningful relationships. Which is a small step in the right direction. Still there is a long way to go.
Oh my god I understand my mother now. Thank you!
Terrifying isn't it
My current partner was with the mother of his children for 30 years and as I read the comments, and listen to this video - I really see what he went through.
His motivation to be a provider and stable parent kept him there but he’s really starting to grasp that we was in a abusive relationship and should have left her a long time ago. he’s starting to face the protective habits he created in relationship with her, now that he is with a person who truly relates and loves him.
It’s so sad - but healing is possible with patience, consistency and true care.
I am going through the same with my current partner. Tell me, how do you help him heal?
Mine has been through so much and struggles with triggers of what she did and trusting that I won't do to him what she did to him
“To exist is to be affronted” is the egomaniacal stance of my separated wife.
35 years married. This video is as if you were reading the owners manual about her. You hit every single metric. Some that i never considered, but are absolutely correct. Hardest part fir me is having to walk on eggshells. I have to lead in to every comment or conversation with "this isn't about you or I dont mean this in this way" and that still might not be enough to keep her from twisting what I say into something bad about her. I recently went "no contact or silent" , she lost her mind. She just became evil towards me. Started staying out late several nights a week. Didn't come home at all several times. Then she left.
My ex-NPD once told me, "I'm not a good person." Point blank, verbatim. I thought she was talking about our having an affair (I didn't know if she was married, seperated, or what, only that she was very unhappy and looking to get out of her current relationship), but in retrospect I think she had a moment of "clarity" and let it slip. She knows that she has a problem, though imo not exactly what that problem is... and I'd bet a paycheck she doesn't want to know and will run from that knowledge until the day she dies, denying it exists so she can perpetually claim victim status and continue acting as she always has, a covert/vulnerable narcissist.
I was told the exact same 5 words by my ex wife during the initial love bombing phase . I didn’t listen either . 14 years later my life was in shambles and I had no idea who I was .
I got "I have a tendency to sabotage my relationships".. should have ran for the hills.
Wow same she said:"I am evil" but only that one time at the beginning when she needed me to wait before I enter the house, becouse she needed to "clean the room".. well the room was not clean or anything but who cares when you are freshly in "love", huh? :D
omg omg, so many years utterly unprotected, thanks a million
Doctor, I would love to hear your take on this. As I'm listening to this, it sounds like "the wife" has adopted negative beliefs about herself from childhood, and she acts according to these beliefs. The reason she can't explain her motives for her behavior shows me it's subconscious, because the language of the subconscious isn't based in logic but primal feeling. She's constantly claiming the romantic interest to be emotionally distant, because that's probably the belief her caretaker projected on to her. That her feelings don't matter. And she's basically running a subconscious program installed in childhood that she can't even explain that enabled her dysfunctional psychological survivalmode. What are your thoughts on this Dr? I feel like in psychiatry we get lost in labels and statistics, while it seems to me that a lot of these behaviors are rooted in beliefs of one self, mostly subconscious. And of course a mix of genetics, but I find it hard to believe genetics are a "death sentence" in these cases. We now know about the science of epigenetics which to me ties into this whole story. The mind is easily fooled by beliefs, we know this. We take it to a whole other level when the "wife" comes to believe at an early age that she must move into a psychological state of survival ,and all it's psychopathological "friends" (behaviors) will save her. Survival sounds like a good reason evolutionarily speaking to turn a (otherwise) pathological "narcissistic"gene on?
And you have nailed why the DSM is such a garbage fire when it comes to diagnosis. Modern psychology/psychiatry does not understand anything about the process of the diseases they claim to treat, and instead rely on poorly constructed (and very unscientific) explanatory models to basically bullshit the public into thinking they are erudite. It's why psychiatric drugs really cause problems. You may enjoy a more rigorously researched (at least cited) perspective than this channel- Dr. Grande is super mainstream and seems very susceptible to societal expectations of gender in particular, which clearly biases his interpretations; part of why we see so much talk on female BPD and male NPD. Check out Mad in America. It's a great resource for counter cultural thought that is rigorously tested and researched.
I find myself wondering sometimes if my wife really loves me. I might be a narcassist. The interesting thing is that my parents were both affectionate to each other and to me. I knew they loved me because they not only said it but showed it in so many ways. If I am a narcassist I certainly can't point to anything my parents did wrong.
@@ChristopherSalisburySalz A narcissist has no ability to take responsibility for any behaviors or self-reflect and analyze their patterns in a logical way as that would require a type of self-esteem that they do not have. The fact that you are able to do that means that you can not have NPD, it could be, however, that you have certain narcissistic characteristics that you are acknowledging within yourself or it could be a whole other issue. You would have to do further research to find out but I can assure you that every narcissist on the planet truly believes that they are perfect or almost perfect and would never ever consider otherwise let alone something as serious as narcissism! LOL
@@ChristopherSalisburySalz if you were a narcissist you wouldn t be here wondering if you were one and you wouldn t care if your partner was and be searching for solution.
@@mimilalla6197 what is it then if you have all of the behaviors Dr. Grande talks about in this video and would say you are a vulnerable narcissist that learned those survival and coping mechanisms in early childhood, and are now aware of it as an adult but it’s so ingrained and subconscious that you still display those behaviors even while working on them? Can’t one be aware of being a narcissist and work on changing those behaviors and thought patterns? Or do you suddenly become not a narcissist once you realize that you are a narcissist because of said realization?
I was raised by a narcissist mother and married a narcissistic husband. Each time you go through the characters of the mental health or lack of I tend to see more of each of them. I had my ex removed from our home. The day he left I told him he reminded me of my mother. I did not know of narcissistic behaviour at the time
In my marriage it was always my fault, yet at the same time there was nothing I could do to fix it either.
Yep. Been there.
I wrote down almost everything you said. I have a 2yo and a 4yo with such a wife. I will take massive determined actions to secure the situation for everybody.
Thank you so much, i have lived for 24 years not knowing that i am like this. I got into so much trouble, and it's not even my fault that my mom raised me in a very unhealthy way. Life is so unfair, when i have a huge disadvantage (mom) life even pushes me deeper because my soul was already very ill and depressed, everyone was mad at me for acting out
Thanks for your work Doc! Totally eye opening for me, a classic Codependent Fat kid with codependent alcoholic/Narcissist divorced parents, married to who I now know is a Vulnerable Narcissist with a laundry list of child hood issues also. Only took me 27 years to figure it out :)
Now I get why my wife LOVES those TV shows where "Rich Housewives" show their lives crashing! while they treat each other horribly with a smile on their lifted faces. G.
Dr. Grande- you are describing the family dynamics I've experienced to a "T', especially the strange relationship between my parents. My father was always demonized and devalued by my mother, and I feel like I wasn't allowed to really have a close bond with him because I believe she wanted and needed the constant 'supply' and admiration from my sister and me. My father was always a workaholic, traveled often, and made himself physically and emotionally distant. Interestingly enough, in my parents older age and retirement, my mother has developed a disability and my father has been totally dedicated to caring for her (which I find amazing after all she put him through). Recently I mentioned some of the antagonizing things she often did and said to him, and she adamantly denied it. Throughout her life she has dealt with drug and alcohol problems, and they have also seemed to get better. I think the fact that she is constantly getting attention and admiration from my father, her narcissistic behavior seems to have been minimized. All I can say is that my mother is honestly one of the luckiest women in the world to have a partner like my dad. And I do believe that for once, she actually appreciates him. I'm not sure if vulnerable narcissism can be cured, but I think it mellows with age as they are able to let go of some of the deep insecurities they have. Furthermore, I've seen how my mom used my sister as an "emotional appliance" (and thus I believe my sister developed a lot of BPD and narcissistic traits because of it). Not having her anymore, and being in a more dependent role with my father has turned the tables, and it's been a very interesting dynamic to observe. Unlike most narcissistic family units, I feel like my story doesn't necessarily have a "happy ending". But I've seen some major improvements in my parents lives and their relationship. I would never try to change a narcissist, but I do believe that they can change somewhat based on their age, station in life, and a variety of conditions.
Dr it's the profound way you transfer your knowledge which is appreciated.
Excellent and precise as usual! I was just wondering if it might be worth mentioning the 'inferiority complex' as major underlying factor? It has been my experience with vulnerable narcissism that this is the key element behind the sense of shame and hyper sensitivity to criticism and self hatred in general which prevents the proper development of intimacy and attachment and a necessary for a bond to form in a mature relationship. The constant need to relieve this impaired sense of self also seems to motivate 'schadenfreude' aspects you refer to. It has also been my experience that the vulnerable narcissist will actually confess that they are feeling inferior and then blameshift and scapegoat their significant other in reaction to this. Like all narcissists, they seem to need to displace this negative self perception onto those closest to them but in the case of VNs the drama is based on their acute sense of victimhood.
That may have been your experience but it is by no means common or a hallmark of the disorder subcategory. In fact consistently seeing/hearing that I'd be looking for a different diagnosis!
@@bigcconservativeguy2534 inferiority complex with vulnerable narcissism VN makes a lot of sense to me.
with a grandiose narcissist GN (I've been with both romantically) , there is an ABSENT self, a horrifying terrifying hole where a personality should be and when they are confronted with the need for emotional openness in the relationship, it causes panic to the GN. the VN has a personality but it was crushed and they cycle between keeping it hidden and then flirting with other men to build it up.
Feel like this is making sense for the way my marriage is going, I always get the blame and have always believed it. Thinking it ain’t always my fault glad I stumbled onto this
You’re describing my mother to a tee. I’m 45 years old and wish I had limited my contact with her many years ago, but I am starting now because I won’t have her pulling the same manipulations on my kids that she did on me. Those with similar moms will understand how insidious and destructive it is to be raised by this personality type.
These videos are so incredibly helpful. I've now been able to identify this in my wife. I want to add 2x more toxic behaviors that tend to cause the most harm to me.
My wife will trivialize and invalidate my daily efforts, chores, and tasks. She tries to convince me that my time is expendable and there for her to use/waste. Usually this is targeted when she needs to justify her ignoring boundaries/limits. Example:
Since I work from home, I have flexibility/availability for tending to the needs of our 3x children. I take them to school & pick them up, which is a huge expenditure of time/energy every day. My wife has told me that, "if you didn't do that, we would just pay someone to, so it's not a big deal".
The 2nd toxic behavior. She will often accuse me of gaslighting her as a reaction to me attempting to directly confront her on bad behaviors. Example: She will complain, as a reaction to conversation, that I criticize her too often or question every decision she makes. When I inform her, truthfully, that I'm not being critical of you in the slightest, I'm not even disagreeing with you, she accuses me of gaslighting her.
Sounds like you are gas lighting each other.
I have learned to say, "that was not my experience in that situation." Then describe my experience.
As soon as we tell someone that their experience is invalid that is gas lighting.
Just because she's wrong or unreasonable, it doesn't mean it isn't gas lighting to tell her that.
I have learned to reword it with my husband because he is chronically gas lighting me and our child. But he LOVES to mansplain to us how we are gas lighting him.
"Well, if that was MY EXPERIENCE, then I'm not gas lighting you."
Gender aside, we can communicate our experience of a situation as being different without telling them they're "wrong". Even when they are, which seems to be the pattern.
I like to say it is rewriting history to favor him. My mom did the same thing. They both believe, wholeheartedly, that their version is.what happened...
It's effed up.
@@thisbeem2714 Gaslighting is a deliberate attempt to deceive or manipulate someone by convincing them that their experience is incorrect. It's a dishonest, reactionary type of behavior with the primary motive being control regardless of whether anything that is said or experienced is accurate or true. My communication with my wife is sincere and is not motivated by deception or control.
@@selmaave9145 ok.
😱the Doctor is smiling for the thumby of this new vid 😁👍rare find!
Dr. Grande I'm afraid I have to apologize to you from past comments. I misread you.. You just helped me immensely. I now realize my ex wife is a covert narcissist. Every single one of the 10 traits describes my ex perfectly.. Thank you for your professional insights...I am forever grateful....for years my ex labeled me as a narcissist...I'm more on the empathic spectrum.