I'm paddling for about 4 years now and really want to be able to paddle in winter, since that time brings not only the worst weather, but also the most beautiful, calm days. But... I'm not that athletic, or sporty (read: short, obese...) so finding suitable winter-kayaking-clothing is hard. Also, after trying some neoprene stuff early last summer, I quickly decided neoprene is definitely not for me. So my only option really is a drysuit. Due to the higher cost I don't have it yet, but I'm about to go shopping for some thermowear, paddling shoes or booties and.. a drysuit. I'm telling this to show there can be other factors that might shift one's interest from wet- to drysuit and vice versa.
In the fall, winter and spring I wear a drysuit. What goes underneath depends on the water temperature. Normally its 1-2 layers of wool (thermal layers) and just sweatpants and sweatshirt. I've been in the water a couple of times like this, and its fairly nice not to get that shocking experience from really cold water. Also being able to just paddle on without being wet and potentially getting cold is great. Norway tend to get frickin' cold at times, and for my own sake i think the drysuit is a better option. In the summertime its t-shirt, pfd and shorts! It's the most liberating feeling! :-P haha
Thanks for the video, great advice. My winter paddling set up is quite similar. My disclaimer, I only do flatwater paddling, no whitewater anywhere nearby. I use a rec kayak so no sprayskirt. i wear thermal top/bottoms under a full 3/2 wetsuit, polar fleece top, sweat pants, and a windbreaker top and bottoms. For the feet 1 mm neoprene socks, wool socks and 7mm neoprene booties. For the hands, I used to use 5mm neoprene gloves, which worked great, but experimented with pogies this year, which was great, but I did have fears of what my hands would feel like if i had to swim for any extended amount of time. On my head I take along a variety of hats, a 2mm neoprene beanie, knitted watchcaps, and a balaclava, depending on temps, winds, and how hot I am getting I will switch between all 3 and no hat at all. It was heartening to see someone using a similar system doing even more extreme kayaking. Thanks again!!
I finally got a chance to try out a drytop paired with a farmer johns 3mm suit. I was on a multi-day trip. The air temps were hot (ranging from 68 F to 80's-90's F throughout the day) and the water was quite swim-able without a wetsuit on but would eventually feel cold. I didn't measure the water temperature, probably in low 70's F. The drytop paired with the farmer john did not keep the water out but did slow it down and prevent flushing. My unprotected arms could feel the colder water through the drytop. In the water, the top provided very little cold protection by itself as would be expected. At some point, I would like to get a neoprene jacket and pants and see how that works both separately and paired with the farmer johns. I wore the farmer johns without the top for the most part as it was hot, too hot to wear together. To cool off, I would jump in. That provided nice cooling for a while once I got out. For this trip, just the farmer john was the best solution in my opinion. A drysuit would have been way too hot and would have provided very little protection for an extended immersion. It will take a while but will try to post if and when I get a chance to do other tests.
If you don't want to invest in a drysuit, you just don't get invited on winter and early spring whitewater trips out here in the pacific northwest. Class IV stuff in winter rain conditions are crazy enough as is, but the last thing any of us out here want is to be paddling with someone who is underprepared and battling hypothermia in every eddy. FWIW there are plenty if cheaper drysuit options out there besides the usual whitewater brands. Plenty of my rubber boat pushing friends use kitesurfing drysuits, they're almost as durable, and they flex better than most whitewater suits, and they are noticeably cheaper. Regardless, once you've paddled in drysuit in the winter, you will never go back to neoprene.
In any case everyone should always test their setup throughly, if you can’t stay warm in it it’s indeed not a good setup. But this works for me. And class IV is something I would be battling with regardless!! 🤣🤣🤣
I wonder how long you will swim in 4 deg Celius water with your setup? 5 to 10min, then the hypothermal shock will knock you out. That means you can swim a distance between 100 to 200 metres before drowning! But if you only paddle on very small rivers and have your changing clothes in a water tight bag on your body (also functions as a second rescue float), your choice could work without dying immediately after capsizing. For open waters and big rivers-good luck...
Een hele goedenavond Ik zat zelf te twijfelen aan een drysuit omdat wij natuurlijk in Nederland wonen en onze temperaturen van de rivieren en kanalen zijn niet zo warm Waar zullen we het beste in Nederland aan kunnen trekken een drysuit of die meerdere lagen kleding Dat is mijn vraag
Goede video. Dik 20 jaar geleden was ik een fanatiek kajak vaarder, bij voorkeur op zee of ander groot water. Gebruikte toen exact dezelfde set-up. Nu, zoveel jaar verder, overweeg ik de hobby weer op te pakken en het leek er even op dat iedereen tegenwoordig een droogpak draagt en de good old long John uit de gratie is geraakt. Goed dat je laat zien dat je dus ook voor minder geld veilig het koude water op kunt.
I have an NRS dry top with Palm Atom Bibs. The idea being a fairly good semi-dry suit that I can make more comfortable in the summer by getting a short sleeve dry top. Did float in the water for about as long as it would take to re-enter my sit-on-top kayak and stayed pretty dry.May have been a little wet from sweat (I over dressed on my under layers) or may have had a trickle make its way to my arm pit. Either way, unless I was lost at sea separated from my boat, I think I'd be just fine. I also have a farmer John wetsuit that I can pair with my dry top or light weight neoprene top if I want to go that route.
The cold shock has me kind of worried tbh in winter here low 40s water temps would be good if surfing to have the wetsuit like 5/4 or thicker but on the kayak idk but yeah a grand is something I don't have atm
Cold shock I feel is from surprise but if you know how it feels and what to expect I feel like it can be managed. Went kayaking last week, and the air temp was 27 degrees. We walked across 3 frozen lakes and had a great time. We had spare clothes in dry bags and had one person dump, but we we were only 30 min from home at that point so he didn't even change clothes. Once the water in his waders warmed he was good to go. We also had extra gloves and good layers on and along... Just be prepared for the worst, we also have stripped down to swim in the ice water at times to see our reactions in a controlled environment.
Thanks for the tip re layering under a wetsuit. 25 years ago I was a whitewater canoeist using Kokotat drysuit in winter and farmer john drysuit is spring/fall. 70yo now and using wetsuit for flatwater canoeing for exercise, wildlife viewing, and much river cleanup. Equipment has changed a bit. I like stretch seals which wetsuit has for ankles & wrists. Potomac river marshes below DC/Anacostia are covered with plastic, glass, and aluminum, mostly bottles and cans. Wish heavy river littering was drowning offense.
I use the very same set up as you same Cag aswell!! Quick question.. have u tried a 5mm long john wetsuit ???? I use a gul response 3mm at the moment for sea kayaking...that's my main use so for coastal trips later in the year would there be any benefit to a 5mm long john? I'm wondering if it will add much more protection from the cold . Thanks great video
never tried one! I would imagine it be quite rigid and hard to move.. I think (but you might want to test this) simply layering up might be your best bet!!
@@PaddlinDutchman thanks for reply 👍 I have just ordered a palm inferno 5mm long john style just to see how it compares to the 3mm . Looking forward to trying it out now 👍 will keep ya posted
@@TheDesignerDan the 5mm long john arrived but I could have done with next size up as I felt a little restricted I returned it but the same long John's had increased in price quiet a bit so o decided to bit the bullet and buy a dry suit after a chilly experience in my wet suit ! I would imagen the 5mm may be a bit to much suit for kayaking Sorry I can't help more
Peddel zo'n beetje in dezelfde setup(s) als jij. Heb wel een droogpak, maar heb er eigenlijk echt een hekel aan, dus die zit meestal voor nood onder een van de dekluiken in deze tijd...
@@PaddlinDutchman het gebrek aan comfort van de seals (vooral nek irriteerd met stoppels e/o fris geschoren) en de kwetsbaarheid daarvan. Waterdichtheid is ook wat overrated bij de oppervlaktepakken, levensduur en de prijs, blijft toch duur spul...
Ya me to. But I live in Colorado. Most of my lakes freeze over except for a few down south. I use a wet suit from January to March. Plus I dona lot of night fishing in my kayak
I used a similar setup in Monterey for kayak surf landing/launching practice with periodic out-of-boat moments last weekend (March 7). I had no long john bottoms but a full 3/2 wetsuit plus thermal shirt plus a fleece jacket and a paddling jacket. Water temp was 11°C/52°F. Maybe 8 to 10 kt winds. (Wind chill makes it more like 6degC/42degF). I had a thin liner hat under my helmet. I am 6', 160 lbs. I was warm enough at first but got chilled after a couple hours. All day like that and I would be hypothermic. A wetsuit hood would have helped but I'd need a bigger helmet. Granted my paddling jacket is not a dry top, but it was flooded in the first few minutes of paddling so it wouldn't have mattered. I guess what I'm saying is that this system may work for 0, 1 or even 2 immersions, but I'm skeptical that it's good for longer periods or wetter days. I think Ryan James is saying the same.
Excatly the info i needed to hear at this time! Was thinking about dressing/preparing myself in the same way and wondering if it is a good idea or not 😅 i'll let you know if it is working for me ✌️
I'm paddling for about 4 years now and really want to be able to paddle in winter, since that time brings not only the worst weather, but also the most beautiful, calm days.
But... I'm not that athletic, or sporty (read: short, obese...) so finding suitable winter-kayaking-clothing is hard. Also, after trying some neoprene stuff early last summer, I quickly decided neoprene is definitely not for me. So my only option really is a drysuit. Due to the higher cost I don't have it yet, but I'm about to go shopping for some thermowear, paddling shoes or booties and.. a drysuit.
I'm telling this to show there can be other factors that might shift one's interest from wet- to drysuit and vice versa.
In the fall, winter and spring I wear a drysuit. What goes underneath depends on the water temperature. Normally its 1-2 layers of wool (thermal layers) and just sweatpants and sweatshirt. I've been in the water a couple of times like this, and its fairly nice not to get that shocking experience from really cold water. Also being able to just paddle on without being wet and potentially getting cold is great. Norway tend to get frickin' cold at times, and for my own sake i think the drysuit is a better option.
In the summertime its t-shirt, pfd and shorts! It's the most liberating feeling! :-P haha
Awesome, definitely, I also like the minimal summer setup best :p less stuff to haul around 😂
Thanks for the video, great advice. My winter paddling set up is quite similar. My disclaimer, I only do flatwater paddling, no whitewater anywhere nearby. I use a rec kayak so no sprayskirt. i wear thermal top/bottoms under a full 3/2 wetsuit, polar fleece top, sweat pants, and a windbreaker top and bottoms. For the feet 1 mm neoprene socks, wool socks and 7mm neoprene booties. For the hands, I used to use 5mm neoprene gloves, which worked great, but experimented with pogies this year, which was great, but I did have fears of what my hands would feel like if i had to swim for any extended amount of time. On my head I take along a variety of hats, a 2mm neoprene beanie, knitted watchcaps, and a balaclava, depending on temps, winds, and how hot I am getting I will switch between all 3 and no hat at all. It was heartening to see someone using a similar system doing even more extreme kayaking. Thanks again!!
Thanks! Also got my hands on some pogies this year 🤣🤣 and really liked them to!
I finally got a chance to try out a drytop paired with a farmer johns 3mm suit. I was on a multi-day trip. The air temps were hot (ranging from 68 F to 80's-90's F throughout the day) and the water was quite swim-able without a wetsuit on but would eventually feel cold. I didn't measure the water temperature, probably in low 70's F. The drytop paired with the farmer john did not keep the water out but did slow it down and prevent flushing. My unprotected arms could feel the colder water through the drytop. In the water, the top provided very little cold protection by itself as would be expected. At some point, I would like to get a neoprene jacket and pants and see how that works both separately and paired with the farmer johns.
I wore the farmer johns without the top for the most part as it was hot, too hot to wear together. To cool off, I would jump in. That provided nice cooling for a while once I got out. For this trip, just the farmer john was the best solution in my opinion. A drysuit would have been way too hot and would have provided very little protection for an extended immersion.
It will take a while but will try to post if and when I get a chance to do other tests.
Your only like 100 or 200 off of a dry suit lol I have Amazon all of this 😂 if your saving 100 to 200 bucks to sweat balls don’t make much sense
If you don't want to invest in a drysuit, you just don't get invited on winter and early spring whitewater trips out here in the pacific northwest. Class IV stuff in winter rain conditions are crazy enough as is, but the last thing any of us out here want is to be paddling with someone who is underprepared and battling hypothermia in every eddy. FWIW there are plenty if cheaper drysuit options out there besides the usual whitewater brands. Plenty of my rubber boat pushing friends use kitesurfing drysuits, they're almost as durable, and they flex better than most whitewater suits, and they are noticeably cheaper. Regardless, once you've paddled in drysuit in the winter, you will never go back to neoprene.
In any case everyone should always test their setup throughly, if you can’t stay warm in it it’s indeed not a good setup. But this works for me. And class IV is something I would be battling with regardless!! 🤣🤣🤣
I wonder how long you will swim in 4 deg Celius water with your setup? 5 to 10min, then the hypothermal shock will knock you out. That means you can swim a distance between 100 to 200 metres before drowning!
But if you only paddle on very small rivers and have your changing clothes in a water tight bag on your body (also functions as a second rescue float), your choice could work without dying immediately after capsizing. For open waters and big rivers-good luck...
@ryan James any brands you can recommend?
2024 & JUST the top is now more expensive than your entire outfit was during filming. 😢
Een hele goedenavond Ik zat zelf te twijfelen aan een drysuit omdat wij natuurlijk in Nederland wonen en onze temperaturen van de rivieren en kanalen zijn niet zo warm Waar zullen we het beste in Nederland aan kunnen trekken een drysuit of die meerdere lagen kleding Dat is mijn vraag
Goede video. Dik 20 jaar geleden was ik een fanatiek kajak vaarder, bij voorkeur op zee of ander groot water. Gebruikte toen exact dezelfde set-up. Nu, zoveel jaar verder, overweeg ik de hobby weer op te pakken en het leek er even op dat iedereen tegenwoordig een droogpak draagt en de good old long John uit de gratie is geraakt. Goed dat je laat zien dat je dus ook voor minder geld veilig het koude water op kunt.
The wetsuit under the dry top is a move I'm going to have to start doing! Great informative video as always. Keep it up!
Thanks!
buy the 70 euro ali drysuit and revieuw it
I have an NRS dry top with Palm Atom Bibs. The idea being a fairly good semi-dry suit that I can make more comfortable in the summer by getting a short sleeve dry top. Did float in the water for about as long as it would take to re-enter my sit-on-top kayak and stayed pretty dry.May have been a little wet from sweat (I over dressed on my under layers) or may have had a trickle make its way to my arm pit. Either way, unless I was lost at sea separated from my boat, I think I'd be just fine. I also have a farmer John wetsuit that I can pair with my dry top or light weight neoprene top if I want to go that route.
Sounds like a good setup!
One year later would you still recommend this set-up for frigid Dutch canals in the winter? Or better to spend €500 on a budget drysuit?
Yes still recommend it!
@@PaddlinDutchman Yup..........you got no brain.
The cold shock has me kind of worried tbh in winter here low 40s water temps would be good if surfing to have the wetsuit like 5/4 or thicker but on the kayak idk but yeah a grand is something I don't have atm
Cold shock I feel is from surprise but if you know how it feels and what to expect I feel like it can be managed. Went kayaking last week, and the air temp was 27 degrees. We walked across 3 frozen lakes and had a great time. We had spare clothes in dry bags and had one person dump, but we we were only 30 min from home at that point so he didn't even change clothes. Once the water in his waders warmed he was good to go. We also had extra gloves and good layers on and along... Just be prepared for the worst, we also have stripped down to swim in the ice water at times to see our reactions in a controlled environment.
What are your thoughts on the 120°F rule? If the water temperature plus the air temperature is below 120°F then wear a survival suit.
He doesn't have a clue.
Thanks for the tip re layering under a wetsuit. 25 years ago I was a whitewater canoeist using Kokotat drysuit in winter and farmer john drysuit is spring/fall. 70yo now and using wetsuit for flatwater canoeing for exercise, wildlife viewing, and much river cleanup. Equipment has changed a bit. I like stretch seals which wetsuit has for ankles & wrists. Potomac river marshes below DC/Anacostia are covered with plastic, glass, and aluminum, mostly bottles and cans. Wish heavy river littering was drowning offense.
I use the very same set up as you same Cag aswell!!
Quick question.. have u tried a 5mm long john wetsuit ????
I use a gul response 3mm at the moment for sea kayaking...that's my main use so for coastal trips later in the year would there be any benefit to a 5mm long john?
I'm wondering if it will add much more protection from the cold .
Thanks great video
never tried one! I would imagine it be quite rigid and hard to move.. I think (but you might want to test this) simply layering up might be your best bet!!
@@PaddlinDutchman thanks for reply 👍 I have just ordered a palm inferno 5mm long john style just to see how it compares to the 3mm . Looking forward to trying it out now 👍 will keep ya posted
Hi @@82HEADCASE, what was your experience with this in the end?
@@TheDesignerDan the 5mm long john arrived but I could have done with next size up as I felt a little restricted I returned it but the same long John's had increased in price quiet a bit so o decided to bit the bullet and buy a dry suit after a chilly experience in my wet suit !
I would imagen the 5mm may be a bit to much suit for kayaking
Sorry I can't help more
Peddel zo'n beetje in dezelfde setup(s) als jij. Heb wel een droogpak, maar heb er eigenlijk echt een hekel aan, dus die zit meestal voor nood onder een van de dekluiken in deze tijd...
Benieuwd wat je vervelend vind aan je/een droogpak? Zit zelf namelijk wel te denken om de overstap te maken (ooit)...
@@PaddlinDutchman het gebrek aan comfort van de seals (vooral nek irriteerd met stoppels e/o fris geschoren) en de kwetsbaarheid daarvan. Waterdichtheid is ook wat overrated bij de oppervlaktepakken, levensduur en de prijs, blijft toch duur spul...
looking nice ;-)
thanks! 💪
How much are the wet suits?
Wear some cheap waders to kayak fish. No problem. Been doing it for years
Ya me to.
But I live in Colorado. Most of my lakes freeze over except for a few down south. I use a wet suit from January to March. Plus I dona lot of night fishing in my kayak
I used a similar setup in Monterey for kayak surf landing/launching practice with periodic out-of-boat moments last weekend (March 7). I had no long john bottoms but a full 3/2 wetsuit plus thermal shirt plus a fleece jacket and a paddling jacket. Water temp was 11°C/52°F. Maybe 8 to 10 kt winds. (Wind chill makes it more like 6degC/42degF). I had a thin liner hat under my helmet. I am 6', 160 lbs. I was warm enough at first but got chilled after a couple hours. All day like that and I would be hypothermic. A wetsuit hood would have helped but I'd need a bigger helmet. Granted my paddling jacket is not a dry top, but it was flooded in the first few minutes of paddling so it wouldn't have mattered. I guess what I'm saying is that this system may work for 0, 1 or even 2 immersions, but I'm skeptical that it's good for longer periods or wetter days. I think Ryan James is saying the same.
Excatly the info i needed to hear at this time! Was thinking about dressing/preparing myself in the same way and wondering if it is a good idea or not 😅 i'll let you know if it is working for me ✌️
Thank you, man! 🤙
Thanks! It works for me! I did forgot to mention I off course also wear a PFD and spraydeck 💪
@@PaddlinDutchman good for you! 💪😁
..And i'm quite sure it will also work for me, since i handle cold water/weather very well :D
This is the worst advice from a youtuber i've seen in years.
Some great advice there. Thank you 🙂
NO. See my comment on this page.
Excellent !
NO. See my comment on this page.