How to Install a Tankless Water Heater | Ask This Old House
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ม.ค. 2018
- Ask This Old House plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey heads to Milwaukee to install an instantaneous water heater.
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Richard installed an RUR Super High Efficiency Plus instantaneous hot water heater [amzn.to/2JxgPk3], manufactured by Rinnai [www.rinnai.us/].
Cost: $2000
Skill Level: Expert
Tools List for Installing a Tankless Water Heater:
Pipe wrench [amzn.to/30C1bcN]
Drill [amzn.to/2xMFxWQ]
Hole saw [amzn.to/2JuwyjA]
Shopping List:
1” gas line and fittings [amzn.to/2XN1e3E]
4” PVC pipe and fittings [amzn.to/2XO6Pa1]
PVC glue [amzn.to/2Jy9wsd]
Teflon tape [amzn.to/2xQB45f]
copper pipe and fittings [amzn.to/2JxhRwo]
Pipe cutter [amzn.to/30vgHa5]
Steps:
1. An installation like this that involves gas piping is best left to a licensed, professional plumber.
2. Shut off the water and the gas to the hot water tank. Drain the water out of the tank and remove the old tank.
3. The new water heater may require a larger gas line, which will need to be run from the gas meter to the water heater.
4. Using the hole saw, drill a hole on the outside of the house near the location of the water heater. Run PVC pipes for the fresh air intake and vent through that hole.
5. Connect the cold water supply line to the water heater and the hot lines out of the heater using the _” copper pipe.
6. An on-demand water heater requires an electrical outlet. An electrician may need to assist in adding one near the installation location.
7. A cross-over valve can be installed at the furthest plumbing fixture to allow the built-in recirculation pump to keep hot water at the ready.
8. Turn on the cold water supply, gas supply, and power to the water heater and test.
Resources:
Expert assistance for this project was provided by Budiac Plumbing & Heating, Inc of Milwaukee, WIsconsin.
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Homeowners have a virtual truckload of questions for us on smaller projects, and we're ready to answer. Ask This Old House solves the steady stream of home improvement problems faced by our viewers-and we make house calls! Ask This Old House features some familiar faces from This Old House, including Kevin O'Connor, general contractor Tom Silva, plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey, and landscape contractor Roger Cook.
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How to Install a Tankless Water Heater | Ask This Old House
/ thisoldhouse - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I was on a housecall last month and witnessed a HotPoint water heater from 1948 still up n running fine!
How the hell?
@@Joshuam808. Yeah bro the manual was still sitting on top of it haha
It’s a tankless job but someone’s got to do it 🤠
If you do something right, people won't know you've done anything at all. I finally realized that Richard is an excellent host, and this was a good example of that.
My favorite part was them looking each other in the eye while asking if it feels good fondling the water
LOL
I eat eggs
As a master plumber in Texas i love how they installed the service valves
I'm in Texas and need a master plumber! Wish TX wasn't so big or that there was a way to reach folks on here!
I love the nice music while they work. When I do things, there is swearing, smashed thumbs, gouged hands !!!!
😂 you sound like me.
I'm really glad he took the time to explain all the issues with these type of units and the solutions for the issues. Very nice video.
I installed a Takagi unit 21 years ago and it it still works great. As for maintenance I only ran a cleaning solution thru it about 5 years ago. I would recommend tankless all day long! As to why I did it, I had converted my double to a single and got rid of two hot water tanks.
Thank you so much - that's exactly what I was wondering - how to maintain it!
8:44 This man's sense of humor is always great
I put one in and I love it. A friend put one in with a circulating pump and he said the problem is instead of waiting for hot water, he often times will turn on the cold, and it's hot and he has to wait for cold. He decided to just turn the pump off.
There must be a problem with the bridge valve.
Very clean good looking install on that tankless water heater. I also like the zip ties under the sink to hold everything neatly together.
Thanks Rich! Your a true professional! I'm going to upgrade when the time comes!
I love it when Richard puts on his glasses
Dude, it's a tankless job but somebody's gotta do it.
ericlogos I see this exact comment on just about every tankless water heater video lol. By the way you’re welcome lol
Don't get me started!!!
Prepperjon hahahahaha
Ha! Get it?
Lol 🤣🤣🤣
Richard Trethewey is pro. I always walk away with some excellent life learning info, about plumbing that is valuable for homeowner.
Thanks! This really helped me in my decision to go tankless.
I lived in an apartment in Korea. The tankless water heater was part of the radiant heating system, too. It's the thermal mass approach to heating, so that could add more benefit. I always had hot water very quickly.
👍
I saw that on a build of a cabin. Great idea!
I have an old school gas water-heater.
I lost power for 3 days, because a neighbors tree fell on my house and truck, and tore the electrical straight from the meter socket.
Even though it was winter, and the house got down to 52 at night, hot water still worked and was welcome.
I don't think I will ever go with a tankless, or power-vent type water heater.
(Until the government forces us, of course.)
I should add, that all water faucets are at the opposite side of the house from the water heater.
If I had to go tankless, I would want the tankless heater to be installed right in that area, which means running a gas line.
In a really bad situation the water in a water heater can be used as a water source.
True! Most people install a battery backup so their tankless heater can operate a few days without power. (Some people install a small storage tank along with the tankless heater. ) Tankless and storage tank can each have their uses depending on your situation.
I've always had a big tank water heater, and I always have to wait for hot water. In Japan, I had one of these things and the hot water came on really quickly!
I wanna work for you boddy. Plumbing is a fun job. You did it clean and logic. Congrats!!
The one thing people are forgetting here is the endless hot water supply these unit provide. My Rinnai tankless unit provides endless hot water, so the days of cold showers are a thing of the past. No regular water heater can do that , excluding a boiler. And yes I have seen a big difference in the amount of money I am saving on heating water. Btw I leave in northern US.
I mean it costs few hundred bucks to heat an avg water heater yearly. Your paying how much to install this and get rid of the old unit? Around double the cost of a standard tank unit. All that for 30% cost savings on the high end? So around 100-200 bucks a year in savings? But tankless supposedly last 5 to 10 years longer then a tank unit. So you will see a return after 4-5 years. This is all of course if the tankless last longer, is 30% more efficient, all the extra connections dont need repairs and if the costs are only x2 the cost of standard. When i did some bids on my house the cost for tankless was x3 times more. In any case you should see a return after at least 6-10 years...give or take. Worth it? Idk
@@BobBob-we3wr bob we use this for decades in the netherlands and i must say the one they using is outdated the world leading brand is intergas try to get that brand.
And also here the instal and machine comined is around 1300 dollars so those 4/5k prices in the states ar a rwal rip off.
Ofc all house alrdy have a pipe system here in the netherlands so its only connect and tune and its done.
@@BobBob-we3wr In my view the biggest advantages to tankless are 1) unlimited shower/bath lengths and 2) direct vent. The cheap tank models use room air for combustion and have a gap between the exhaust and the chimney connect, which is a dumb way to do things--what if your bath or kitchen is just a bit too strong, or the wind is blowing the wrong way? Of course, standard efficient direct vent models do exist, but then the cost difference is almost nil.
Beautiful install. Love the strut brackets. Professional plumbing right there. You can tell Richard didn’t do the work on this one. M12 tubing cutter is a game changer along with the M18 pro press. M18 hole hog is awesome. Love all the beautiful Milwaukee tools. Rinnai’s are the best!
This unit had a copper heat exchanger though. Very susceptible to bad water issues. Stainless is better.
That was a Rennai? Been looking at them for 10 years as the quality seems pretty good. I still have not installed one yet because plumbing up here in Boston is so expensive... I just saw the control panel with the name...:)
Same here in NY smh plumbers are asking for
$4000 up to $7000 for an install on a tankless
It’s ridiculous because I already have a tankless I need a replacement and they’re charging as if I’m putting one in for the first time it’s crazy what they’re asking to put one in
That's pretty cheap considering you guys live in a high cost area here in idaho. It costs $10,000, not even done by licensed plumbers 😢😢😢
@@cappz477 It's going to cost me less than $1000 for the install and the heater/fuses/tubing/6AWG. Lucky enough to know how to do it. Just as you watched this video, you can watch in-depth videos on how to do the installs for Gas/Electric Tankless units. You might be able to install it yourself if you contact your city and ask about Home Owner Permits for self renovations. It really isn't that difficult to do if you are a capable person.
If you have trouble doing even basic repairs on things around the home though, you'd be better off paying more for someone qualified to do it.
If only we had these guys down in Florida. Such bad work in Florida. Great info on the recirculating versions like the Rinnia RUR98iN (Natural Gas... P is Propane). Spoke with Rinnia today and these guys explained it better.
Awesome,.. I just watched this same program yesterday, on PBS👍
This was fascinating. I have a tankless water heater, but I don't have one of those bronze valves you showed under the sink that circulates the water into the cold line. I need to look into that, because in our kitchen, it does take quite a while to get the hot water over to it, since it is on the opposite side of the house as the tankless water heater.
Bruce A. Ulrich that tankless has a built in pump as well
My master bath is the farthest away from my tank hot water heater. It takes a couple of minutes to get hot water to it. Maybe three.
The house came with a recirculation pump. I hate the thing and simply unplugged it. Nobody takes showers at hard-defined times - good luck with narrowing that down to even an 8 hour window. So the pump would need to run all the time, driving the gas bill into the stratosphere (even in July) and it would make the tank heater work extra hard - all for the benefit of making the water less cold.
You see here's the deal with the recirculation pump: All it did was make the water less cold. In no way would anyone still want to get into the shower with the less-cold water coming out of the shower head. So every bit as much water would be wasted to get the appropriately hot water to the shower - all for the benefit of a sky high gas bill and a harder working tank heater.
Even if robots lived here and they took showers only at predefined times, the net result would be every bit as much water wasted, *much* more gas would be used, and the hot water heater would have to work *much* harder.
Total, epic, fail.
@@gskibum I'm kind of glad you mentioned this because I am curious myself as to how to tackle that. My plumber is coming to install one but today... I'm sure you know gas is not as cheap as it was when this video was made. So I am nervous about switching from the electric hot water heater I currently have to a tankless gas water heater right now. I have well water so I'm not terribly worried about wasting 1-2 minutes to heat up my showers. I am terribly worried about wasting gas, especially in the warmer months when I normally don't have to right now. Kind of in the fence here about even switching to a gas instant hot water heater.
@@Little_Bitz Hi LilBits. I may have caused some confusion. I was talking about those recirculation pumps that are supposed to remedy the problem of wasting water because the water coming from a hot water faucet is very cold for the first spell.
A real good friend of mine is an HVAC guy I trust a whole lot. He's moved on from residential work to large enterprise installs. He swears by tankless, although I suppose the choice between gas or electric comes down to the cost of electricity in your area, and how much it may increase.
Where I live, gas is still the way to go.
Richard is obviously a big fan of the tankless which no doubt has its benefits but no mention of the upfront high costs and annual service needed on the unit.
The need for annual flushing is the result of hard water; minerals in the water build up in the heating pipes. Use of a water softener practically eliminates the annual service.
Fair. Poor people are not the people whose houses are getting worked on on TOH, that's for sure :D
I live in Italy and this is the main system that we adopt for hot water.
My water heater was made in 4/77 A Jackson heater and still works great
I wish this was live on Facebook so I could have told the guy to move over 2 feet to his left so he could stand straight up. I’m 6’5” I know the struggles
I love our tankless. In our 6 bed, 4 bath house with dish washer and laundry we never run out of hot water. For our Airbnb that's pretty important. We have a mid-efficiency Rheem that uses about 10 - 14 therms of natural gas a month. At 40.9 cents a therm that's about $4.90 - $5.73, or $58.80 - $68.71 a year in operating costs. I shopped the net and found a new RTG-95DVLN-1 for $799.00 (shipping included and no sales tax) and installed it myself using CPVC pipe and Sharkbites to tie into the existing copper. Piece of cake. The only real challenge has been venting through the wall of the basement to the outside. The stainless steel concentric vent pipe has cost about $375.00. When the time comes to descale I've seen on TH-cam the heaters can be descaled with clear vinegar. My plumber wanted $300+ to do it. I'm of the opinion most plumbers don't understand tankless heaters and are scared of them, which would explain why they trash talk them. After 10+ years we are on our second tankless ...
I'm a plumber and that's a very biased untrue opinion. Also how do you know how much gas your unit uses each month unless that's the only thing running off of gas?
@@pauljohnson8154 how much does it cost to install this unit if you have all utilities like water and gas near it all you need to do is connect everything together..
@@bajarizo7255 it varies a lot, many times if you are replacing a gas tank type water heater your gas line is undersized for a tankless, regionally what plumbers charge changes quite a bit
No aspersion on plumbers generally, but I agree some do not want to install a tankless when the storage tank is familiar to install. I wouldn’t say they don’t understand them but several advised against one but would only say they’re “more maintenance.” Which can be true but some new ones have scale prevention.
plumbing a lot different in America then in Australia, i did plumbing for 5 years, just installed an instantaneous the other day. Only have to run 3/4 inch for the gas line to the heater, we use copper for gas pipe, and our hot lines are 1/2 inch which is all you need (our cold main lines are 3/4 inch as well). Where most people solder bends, we just use the pipe benders, and most joints are silver brazed (while some plumbers still soft solder, but not near as common, obviously not on the gas line though). But most new houses have poly pipe except the front run from the water meter to the house, the garden taps etc. I like seeing how other countries do things different.
You are the master my friend!!👍👍👍 very good job
One advantage to the good ole tank style water heater is the simple fact that it contains 40-50 gallons of water. About 20 years ago I lived in an area that had a forest fire. My house was nowhere near the fire but the cities main water dept building was consumed by the fire. The supply of water to homes stopped because of it. Luckily my water heater had a special valve to prevent water from going backwards in the supply side pipe. I attached a hose to the drain valve and filled 5 gal containers. We had more than enough water to get us through until the water dept cam back online.
I have a Japanese made Rinnai hot water heater. I've been quite impressed with it's performance. I don't have the recirc feature, so you do have to wait a little for the water to get hot. It's not too bad since most of my water appliances are fairly close to the heater. It's really nice not having to pay to heat water up all the time when you aren't home or not needing hot water.
an not paying the gas company it keep the hot water on
I have to wait for hot water to get from my tank to my tap anyway, so what's the difference in that?
But most homeowners will have to pay for installation of larger diameter gas supply lines or higher capacity electric supply, new wiring (with surge suppressor), perhaps additional vent piping unless they live in the south and want an exterior installation, regular professional descaling, etc. And, if your area is prone to power failures, there's no power for the gas igniter, so, no hot water. Many will never recoup the added expenses and would be better off just adding an insulating tank cover, if their units aren't well-insulated.
wholeNwon I believe there is a pilot flame in some of them same as a tank style water heater
I'm not aware of any. Maybe you can provide an example. The nature of a tankless design might make it impractical.
We love Richard. Always.
He did the great job for install the new water heater.
I like how they touched hands at the end.
I don't understand the complaint about waiting for hot water. I have a water tank now and I have to wait for hot water when I turn the faucet on.
@@fixedguitar47 These are problems everywhere America may be developed well through the hard work people put in but these are still inconveniences that exist everywhere.
5 gallons for me at shower. I do not shower with cold water... so i save it to flush... 5 gallons adds up... wife showers separately so 10 gallons down drain daily,then the sink kitchen..
Those are awesome if someone know how to size it up properly and its water on demand not that ur faucet gets its like NOW for that u need a hot water recirculation system
@@fixedguitar47 i know im a plumber but alot of plumbers dont know how to size it up properly thats why ppl complain
I don't think it's meant to be a complaint as much as I think people believe tankless means instant. I think they could say it better though.
Immaculate clean work
I had an instant on back in the 1980’s- loved it- saved mucho $ on gas
Did you buy a fake ID to enter the US with all that mucho you saved ?
In of event of catastrophic proportions if you have a tank water heater say 40 to 50 gals that would go along ways . There are ways to make a tank water heater almost instant.
You have to wait for hot water on either Tankless or Standard water heater some people just like to fuss.
No. The problem comes when multiple people need to take hot showers at once. Often one tank of hot water simply isn't enough. That's why it's important to have tank-less because it has unlimited hot water.
With tankless heaters, one faucet at a time gets water, others will get some and if someone else turns on a faucet, hello cold shower. For 35 bucks a year in extra energy used, ( you will spend more than that on worse things) I have a tankless heater feeding my water heater so there's. Always 30 gallons of hot water available for use. Never run out of hot water even if every faucet is on at the same time
@@billgrant2116 was that complicated to combine
?
@@billgrant2116 Not true at all, do your research. Tankless water-heaters are designed 2 ways; for amount of flow (for one or more fixtures simultaneously) and rise of temp from a specific input temp (water from the ground). If you undersize your WH because you're cheap or uneducated about what's needed for your volume or points of use, then you will def not get the results you expect. Do your homework and size your WH to your fixtures and number of uses simultaneously. Don't get the cheapest one, it never pans out
@@JB-de8ts agreed! I have the largest one available for 4 bathrooms. And we are never in the cold ever. No matter how long we have it on for. Not only that it’s about 125$ cheaper each month compared to an electric water heater. So I’m not really sure what that other guy was talking about.
that recirculation explanation at the end blew my mind!
He does a great job explaining. I finally understand it without being a plumber.
Great job guys!
Looks Like Milwaukee is now sponsoring This Old House? See a lot of their tools in this video they are great for plumbers though.
Well the job was done in Milwaukee soooo Milwaukee tools ;)
chillywilly3610 too bad their tools are made in China
Milwaukee is the only one building a lot of these specialized plumbing tools, so you will continue to see more of them in plumbing videos until other tool companies catch on.
True but usually brands that don't have a sponsorship with TOH have the logos' covered.
Aaaa
1. Most average plumbers are not familiar with how to troubleshoot these when they break.
2. Youd have to have someone from the manufacturer repair it
3. They are not 100% on demand, you have body sprays, multiple showers and a lot of fixtures using hot water especially at the same time the unit cannot heat the water fast enough with the large amount of water flow.
4. Not all plumbing supply houses/hardware stores carry parts for these.
electric tankless water heater not gonna keep up with demand but gas will, in the regular size homes. Also you can put 2 of them
Well I guess living in america sucks then. I might as well move to europe where people actually know how to fix these things and know lots more about them then dealing with the archaic tank type water heater
Btw, I live in Georgia so It's not like I moved here.
If by any chance some day you come to NH and want to record a video let me know. I like how you explain everything to the people, I’m an automotive technician and I also explain to customers like you, so they know what is going on with there vehicles. Good videos 👍👍👍
Thank you for all the information 👍🏻
I find it humorous when people say "hot water heater".
I f you have a whole house gas-fired backup generator installed, make sure the guy Generac or Kohler sends out has the knowledge to assess whether the gas supply can run the generator, your gas furnaces, AND an instantaneous water heater simultaneously.
In my opinion I am not really a huge fan of these Tankless water heaters, here's why, There are a lot of bells and whistles on these units, I know that they don't take up a lot of space and they are efficient in many ways but, you are dealing with a lot of extra parts on this heater, the best one in my opinion is the PowerVent tank water heaters, because they have less bells and whistles and they are still energy efficient. That's only my opinion though, everyone is allowed to have an opinion.
Lol this person is very fortunate to have all that space to work with. My water heater is in a very small area and is a lot more difficult to work with,
WORKS GREAT, 5000 DOLLARS LATER !
Have you ever priced a tankless water heater? They are about the same cost as a tank heater. $2,000 at the very high end...or under a grand for not so much. Considering they last 2-3 times longer, they are much cheaper overall. That's not even counting the energy savings.
Don’t forget the labor cost, unless you are DIY
Nice job on the install!! Myth the tankless water heater only heats the water on demand....the tankless runs at low heat through the heat ex changer so it isn't a shock to the system when the there is demand for hot water. The savings is so minimum between the tank and tankless hot water heaters it is not worth it to change out the system unless space is needed or the demand for hot water is high enough that the tank heater isn't keeping up with the demand for usage. The savings goes down the drain when you have to descale the tankless system and also goes away on the install. The tankless and tank hot water heaters last about the same time depending on usage, maintenance, and luck. Parts for the tankless are very expensive!!!
Most manufacturers are now coming out with models that can use 1/2" gas lines which makes installation easier than easy.
I just bought a house in south Milwaukee. I need to do this. Switch from electric. There is gas available but need to do the conversion. I looked for a video and this was Milwaukee! Thank you. Now to find some help
Excellent video I loved this, very useful!
Surprised to see you here
@@answernotfound5278 I enjoy these videos as much as making them
I enjoy your lawn videos and your grass, in the summer, Is just beautiful!
@@SilverCymbal I think your lawn in the summer is so beautiful
@@answernotfound5278 I really appreciate that. Lots more stuff coming this Spring & Summer too
I already have a thankless family. Why would I want a thankless water heater?
great videos, love the show.
I work on Andrew's water heaters gas fired I think they came from the U S .VERY GOOD it was part of a system at Hampton court palace..back in the day .
Brave man with that hole saw directly into asbestos siding with no PPE.
Water actually goes through the condensing heat exchanger first then the copper heat exchanger, it's more efficient that way
I was thinking that sounded backwards when he said it. You'd have to have the cold incoming water chilling the pipes to get the condensation, while essentially pre-heating the water before it goes into the main heat exchanger.
Blue Monster, strut and clean lines. Nice install. A fellow Tradesman.
i'm blown away too
I still think tank water heaters are better, we have never had issues with hot waters. We can have 3 showers on at the same time for as long as they want. A better alternative to save money would be the heaters that go directly on the shower faucet.
Me too
> We can have 3 showers on at the same time for as long as they want
That can only happen if your incoming water temperature is very high, you have drainwater heat recovery at every shower, have a *very* large tank (>100 gallons) or a high output tank (e.g. AO Smith Vertex), "as long as you want" being really short, or some combination of the above.
I think Richard had a bet with someone that he could use the phrase "well hung unit" in a piece that made the air.
Nice, especially as it's Richard
Love the ProPress by Viega!!!
Excellent video. I'm buying!!
When I look at the code for installing gas appliances, I believe the sediment trap should be installed directly below the vertical gas line, rather than at a 90 degree horizontal tee feed as shown here.
I had a crossover with recirculating pump to have immediate hot water at the kitchen sink (80 feet from the heater) but uninstalled it after it caused major leaks in the copper plumbing. Turns out that the constant flow slowly eats away inside the copper until you get a pin hole leak. Any imperfection inside the pipe including solder or leftover flux are potential points for this erosion to occur. I would like to see TOH address this as it is a known issue for copper plumbing.
They have an older video on copper corrosion. They brought in an engineer with cutaway examples of various corrosion scenarios (stagnation, high velocity, flux, iron).
th-cam.com/video/nD5lMITzx_Y/w-d-xo.html
Very interesting. Thanks for the addition.
Gracias muchachos!!! I am getting a tankless water heater, I trust you all.
Hi, do you have an in-depth water heater (gas or electric) replacement video? I have basic knowledge of how to replace but only some of the why’s.
I’d really like to know the science behind why each typical step is performed. For example:
1.shutting water off at house valve vs. cold water valve to heater.
2. opening the cold side, hot side, or midway on all fixtures to drain the system and how opening the fixtures creates vents to help drain the system.
3. How to drain the water heater gravity vs. transfer pump
4. when to know that the system is drained and your good to go to cut out heater
Thanks for your great content!
The homeowner could step like two feet to his right and not have to duck at all. Way to go director!
OMG I know right! Heeheehee.
He didn't exactly show how to install it. He just installs it. With little to no explanation.
This really isn't a diy type project. This is more of a general overview on what goes on with an install.
The earlier seasons were better but installing a natural gas tankless water heater is out of the scope for most diy people.
Haha right! 5 min of history, 2 min montage of installation and 3 min of how it’ll make the house better
yeah and he uses a pro press, which 99.9% of DIYers dont own
We rented one at our local hardware store, if that helps you.
I just installed a 50 gallon low profile, Minnesota code is pipe insulation only on hot water side, on his old one it was on both...
weve had them in the uk for years,the only problem is in time the diaphram the boiler goes, when this happens you will need to bring the pressure back up.
Every tank I replaced was 15 to 20 years old. Not 10 lol. You might save $7 a month with this. Good luck making that money back...
I have a tankless water heater that ics more than 35 years old and still going strong. I know I would have gone through at least two tank type water heaters by now. I also know that I have saved on my monthly gas bill as well by at least 10%. Well worth the extra $
You don't have a tankless from the 80's
@Paul Johnson, He very well could. The first tankless water heater was invented by Stiebel-Eltron in 1929.
And electric cars were invented before gas powered ones. The technology to make them practical in any residential setting has only been around the last 20 ish years. Also most of the first tankless heaters had copper heat exchangers and are not known for lasting.
Watching This from europe, i’m thinking why don’t you use a combi heater. It heats the water. But also heats the water for the radiators trough out the house. Which you could implement to the hot air system you all seem to have in the house.
J.D. Willemsen just like feet and inches they like to use archaic methods.
Most newer American homes use forced air HVAC systems, which accommodate air conditioning. Radiator systems aren't unheard of, but not especially common.
Sup3rFly88 imperial is better than metric in every single real world application
It just hasn’t been out long enough for installers to be comfortable with the installation yet. And only a few companies have brought that kind of tech yet.
what radiators are you talking about, this has forced central air and natural gas heat
Thermal Expansion tank is only required on a closed water system UPC 608.3. Newsflash: on a tankless all thermal expansion is instantly released when you open a faucet and use hot water. Basically, it's just there for looks.
Just saw this video and the expansion tank comment in the video is just plain wrong. Too bad between the two plumbing gurus, the commentary could not get it right. Consult with the manufacturer for their comments so the end result is at the same high standard we have come to expect from "Old House" videos. Tony (above) commented on this error over two years ago and yet no errata from the TH-cam provider.
Electric car station in the corner..these guys are awesome!
Expansion tank requires only on a closed loop.
Wondering the same thing. Only needed when heating water IN A CLOSED SYSTEM. Tankless only comes on when faucet is turned on, creating an OPEN SYSTEM.
@@Isaiah5417GdLk because they have recirc pump on and cross connection in the system, it's closed system when pump is running
Also a draw back on tankless hot water. The enemy to these systems is hard water. You must descale every 6 months if you don’t have soft water. There’s a process that has to be done that was not mentioned.
I live in Italy, we have hard water and i had a tankless water heater since 2001. the only thing that we have to do is call someone to check the heater every year to check the parts and if everything is ok
A water softener will remove the minerals and eliminate the need for annual descaling.
Vinegar works great where I live. $.50 sounds totally manageable :)!
i may be wrong, but i think that's called latent heat of evaporation, its a term we use in air conditioning alot, not that the waters evaporating but if the heat is exiting into the piping that heat is getting soaked by the water, which to me is a BRILLIANT solution
He Richard installed my viessman boiler NEVER HAD ANY Problems. NUFF SAID.
Viessman good
I have a tankless water heater and love it. There are two issues with it which, as long as you know about them, are just fine to live with. Issue 1 - takes a while longer to get hot water is described at 7:22. Issue 2 - Consider doing dishes in the kitchen sink by hand. You turn the water on, then off, then on again, etc. Each time you turn the water off the tankless heater turns off. Then when you turn the water back on and the heater turns on too. Great! BUT some cold water sneaks through the heater before it can get hot. Thus you get a small chunk of cold water sandwiched between the hot water on either side.
cold water isnt sneaking through. there is cold water in the lines that has to get out before the heated water gets to you. terms like on demand, or instant hot water, are no longer used in the industry because of this reason. they now use the term unlimited hot water.
I'm not clear on how this is different from tank water. I've never lived anywhere where I didn't have to wait for the hot water to show up from the tank...seems the same to me in that regard since it's not like the water doesn't cool once it's in the pipes waiting on me. Thanks for sharing this - I happen to do dishes by hand but it's good to know a DW might need considerations on this.
@@lindsaywilliambrown808 - The big difference is that a tankless water heater will provide an endless amount of hot water. A tanked water will eventually run out of hot water especially if you have teenagers! The secondary benefit with tankless heaters is that they are cheaper to run as they only use energy (gas/electricity) when you are using hot water. A tanked water heater is constantly heating water even in the middle of the night, doing dishes or not, or when you are away on a week's vacation.
We have seen these in RIO for decades, however never seen a expansion tank !
yeah it is not needed, he even pointed to the same valve that will release the preassure IF it gets too high... *rolls eyes* and the circulation trick is not needed either, even with a tank heater you need to wait for the hot water to arrive at the faucet, no change there AT ALL. Running circulation just means you heat water that will then just cool down in the pipes afterwards anyways + needing expensive valves + a pump... The tankless heater is plenty enough
The expansion tank is required by code in municipalities where there are check-valves on the domestic water supply.
@@LiLBitsDK if u got a big system allot of radiators and piping u need 1. Else u can refill the closed system everytime after ur heated ur house because the presure difference is so big between heating and not heating. the automatic valve will spit out so much when ur heating that when the system is cold after heating the pressure in the closed system dropped way too much.
Very good tips and good Learning project do it yourself video
100% clear instruction...
What's with the complaints about waiting for hot water? You have to wait with any water heater, tank or not.
@peter d
You're grammar makes no sense.
Most efficient way would be to have small hot water heaters near each fixture that demands hot water. I believe other countries tend to do it that way (for example, have a small unit above the shower head dedicated to heating shower water etc)
I have a coil in my oil burner. Its the best I never run out of heat
Richard Iam a plumber and I love the American way .
With the re-circulation setup, you're kind of losing much of the benefit of a tankless system, as you end up creating a small and often poorly insulated tanked hot water system.
If you're looking at going to a tankless hot water, then it is a good idea to strongly consider a short-run system instead of a central re-circulation. That is, don't have a heater in the basement, put it under the sink, or in the wall behind the shower, and minimize the distance between the heater and where you're actually using the hot water. (Yes, this can be difficult to retrofit in some homes, but it is a small concession in design to keep in mind if you're doing new construction or major renovations.)
Sitting down to evaluate your options may mean you're going with multiple smaller on-demand heaters spread around a home to come out with the most cost effective and efficient system.
He did say you can set it to start circulating at certain times of the day ?
While you can set it to help limit how much efficiency you lose over the course of a full day, you will still be hard pressed to get the same overall efficiency in a re-circulator setup as you will in a short-run tankless.
If nothing else you should remember to be very careful to properly insulate your hot water runs and keep them isolated from heat sinks, and ideally use a system that can auto inspect the crossover valve usage - You really don't want your tankless system trying to keep up if that valve jams open.
Not sure how common they are on mainstream commercial hardware, but I for one get a bit of a kick out of things like heating systems that can email me a monthly report, or send out an 'emergency' email if it detects something weird going on with itself.
I agree, can't beat the shortest run but if your lines are Super insulated, and they can be, I know because I was a Union Pipe insulator for 13yrs on commercial buildings, you can keep your losses down to about 6% over a 100ft run. And those one-way valves that go under the sink that he used are pretty much fail proof and work for decades with no problems.
That was a lot of expensive work if a professional was being paid. Lots of stand-by loss was built into the system from the start.
In Europe, these are installed at the point of use. Installing them 100 feet away negates all benefits. They often require huge gas or electrical upgrades, negating savings. They operate only at full power (150 MPH), must heat cold pipes and then leave hot water to waste in the pipes. High maintenance usually means yearly visits to maintain the warranty. We've removed more than we've installed.
We can make electricity, but we can't make gas. For anyone looking to move toward energy independence via eliminating waste + small renewables, Heap Pump Water Heaters (HPWHs) are a better option, installed with a D'mand circulator to get hot water quickly with virtually no waste. Instead of 65% efficiency with gas (Coefficient of Performance (COP) 0.65), and 95-98% for electricity (COP 0.95), heat pump water heaters (HPWH) harvest the heat present and operate at 250-300% efficiency (COP 2.5-3.0). Federal tax credits only sweeten the deal in addition to the monthly energy savings. Your frig pumps heat (BTUs) "out" and HPWHs pump that same heat "in". For the kind of money people spend for a tankless and the additionally required upgrades, they can get a Sanden at 450% efficiency (COP pf 4.5). Ten-year warranty, and if the anode is serviced, should last a lot longer.
Most of what you said isn't true
We still have almost 100 years of KNOWN natural gas deposits left. Your advice isn’t saving the planet any time soon, and it ignores how a lot of electricity is made. In America, almost HALF of electricity is made with natural gas
I wanted a heat pump water heater but it cannot be installed in our utility room because of air intake requirements. We went tankless because of other reasons
Love the show. Richard's voice reminds me of the chef from Food Wishes channel.
Old house rocks.
🤔 how did he installed it. Because all I got was an overview.
Need to be licensed. You could blow up the block if you don’t know what your doing..
The real lesson here is, pay $5k to have it done.
Hear in FL we could never vent directly under a window.
Shawn Wenrich
You can have a tankless unit installed on the exterior of your home...
Hahaha
Still can't mount an outdoor unit under an interior window.
To my knowledge, you can’t do that anywhere.
Unless you like breathing carbonmonxide!
When we remodeled our master bath I added a 3/4” insulated return line to the tankless water heater...which was equipped with a bronze recirculate pump. I have a manually ( momentary) switch in the bathroom with a motion detector to press when we want to use the sink or the shower.By the time you brush your teeth the water is hot for shaving. The motion detector keeps the water circulating for several minutes for time to shower but shuts off after a couple of minutes of leaving the room. The insulated return lines reduces the amount of gas heating to keep at temperature at the preset level. This has worked great for 10 years.
Brilliant!