Quoted from Peter Comeau. "I thought would put my official reply into this thread because there’s a lot of misinformation out there and it is worrying owners who, otherwise, would probably be quite happy with their speakers. I don’t want to get into arguments with people who have strong opinions on this subject, but you all deserve to know the difference between fact and BS. So here goes … Resistors: as is typical in the hi-fi manufacturing industry, we use Cermet resistors. These are wirewound resistors encased in a ceramic housing. Generally they do their job very well and have minimal effect on dynamics. You can replace them with Mundorf Supreme and possibly get some benefit. I suspect that is probably the biggest audible difference in the HEADquarter Audio mod. Capacitors: the majority of caps in the standard crossover are polypropylene. There are some high value electrolytics but they are bypassed with PP caps to reduce any distortion. So is there any reason to replace them? You could replace the electrolytics with a load of PP types but you’ll have trouble fitting them on the PCB. I don’t really understand why HEADquarter Audio think that the really superb quality PP cap in the HF section can be improved by a Jantzen type? But I will get hold of some Jantzen caps and do some tests and report back on what I hear, probably after Christmas. Coils: we use silicon iron layered core inductors in the bass and midrange in order to keep DC resistance low. These types of cores have a good hysteresis loop and, in general, I prefer to keep DC resistance low especially for high value inductors in the bass. There would be an audible difference if you replace the midrange coil with an air core but make sure you keep the DC resistance low. Which means a big coil! So you need to Mount it off the PCB and keep it well away and at right angles to the other coils. What is often not appreciated about air core coils is that they are much more prone to electromagnetic interference than cored coils. So, if you’re going to use them, you need to space them well apart. Usually I use two PCBs if I’m going to do this. Terminals: all our terminals are plated copper. Why people want to replace terminals like these I don’t understand. There might be a benefit in using a low metal content terminal like the special ones from WBT. Keeping the metal content low is supposed to reduce eddy current effects. But then you have all the wires and coils inside the speaker, which also contribute these effects, so what are you going to do? Cables: we use good quality connecting cables internally. Some people like exotic cables. You could play around here but IMO the benefits, if any, are minimal. But maybe worth it to some people. Solder connections to drive units: The reason we use push on connectors is to enable easy servicing. I have seen lots of drive units ruined by overheating the terminals when poorly soldered by hasty service mechanics. Years ago I held a blind listening test on soldered vs push on terminals. The results were inconclusive. Here’s why I think that is … We crimp push on terminals onto the cables using high pressure machines. This makes an excellent metal to metal, air free joint. The push on terminals then slide tightly onto the drive unit terminal blades. This wiping action again makes a good metal to metal contact and our terminals are the locking type which means that contact stays stable. With soldered joints the current passes from the cable through solder to the blade. Most solder is an amalgam of different metals which lower its melting point, has a chemical action on the metal to wet it, and is oxidised when it melts and cools. If you’re going to use solder make sure it has a high percentage of silver and solder at the manufacturer’s recommended temperature. Frequency response: Frequency response in axis at 1m doesn’t give you any clue as to how a speaker sounds. The ear/brain system is much more critical of temporal performance and whether the harmonic structure of an impulse is correct/realistic than it is of 3dB changes in frequency level. Also, how you make these measurements is critical. Making a gated response in-room, like GR Research, is prone to huge errors. Compare its results to the Stereophile and Erin’s Audio Corner reviews. Erin and Stereophile accord to the measurements I make as a designer. Nuff said."
What Peter Comeau calls good, we call budget level cheesy parts. Much of what he just stated is total BS. The fact is these were built to a price point and the upgrade offers a considerable performance upgrade for those interested and many have ordered this upgrade. The feedback we get on the upgrade from the customer is overwhelming positive. So the performance speaks for itself.
@@dannyrichie9743the art of making nice speakers for a nice price is the use of not so expensive parts and still get a good sound. This speaker is very good for the price. Upgrading is spending extra money that you don’t want to spend, because then you already did that on more expensive speakers.
@@Freedom89984 The elephant in the room is that Danny also makes and sells speakers -- which is a raging conflict of interest that nobody ever talks about. He even uploaded a YT review once with a title something like, "This is the best speaker we've ever heard in here" and ... it turned out to be HIS OWN SPEAKER. To me, that's disqualifying. Full stop.
@@Freedom89984 It also would have made for a much more interesting reply from Danny if he'd actually spoken to any of the technical points raised by Mr Comeau, which he conspicuously -- *conspicuously* -- did not. Personally I've long suspected that the entire business model falls apart if we ever stop and ask ourselves whose word we're supposed to take about the sonic improvements of the replacement parts.
The graphs will show how accurate a speaker is and not how it sounds. However, the measured responses will reveal problems like out of phase drivers, ringing, break up, stored energy, and response imbalances. And those issues are audible.
@@dannyrichie9743 if all of these “issues” are audible, then how come these speakers sound so good (as evidenced by the reviews and the hundreds of comments listed here)?
The Lintons have become my personal end-game speakers as I near retirement. I absolutely love them. I have paired them with dual SVS SB3000 subwoofers .... and they put the artists in my room, pure and simple.
Very harsh words. In spring 2021, I had the opportunity to listen to these speakers in a special listening room and with many other speakers in a any price range. I loved them right away, they sound very good, especially bass. The most expensive speakers we listened to was 80 000€, but they were weak for me, too many high frequencies and less bass. I thinks this mode makes them like this 80000€ again, too much highs and low bass. There were 3 more audio files in the room, two of them didn't like Wharfedal as much as I did, but the third also liked it very much. I think these speakers are such that they like it very much or not at all. After listening to them, I went and bought these speakers and I am still very satisfied today.
@@borisbulldog If i have 80k€ free money, then Yes, i think, i wouldnt buy those speakers. But I wouldnt buy speakers I heard there, maybe i find something better for this money.
Okay so Erin's Audio Corner reviewed these he does the most detailed measurements of anyone. His measurements don't show any of the issues yours did and neither did Stereophiles? Subjectively and objectively these speakers do great with reviewers and customers? But somehow with you these speakers are measuring so bad that's they need upgrades that cost 50% of the total original cost of the speakers? Something doesn't feel right here 🤔
Danny probably measure them without the grills. Grills have wave guide so they are essential for good response. Not trying to defend him. Just my thought. Erin is the way to go for sure.
So I think Danny measures between the tweeter and the mid-range, and Erin measures at tweeter level, hence different results. Erin's -10º vertical is a better match to Danny's on-axis. Which is correct? I guess it depends on the height of your stands and the listening position. Also, GR-Research expensive replacement parts are not just about improving the frequency response. There are other elements to sound quality that do not show up in graphs.
His modus operandi is to sell his oils..... haven’t watched too many of his videos(3-4), just comes across to me as someone dodgy and dishonest. (No evidence, just gut feelings from observing his mannerisms etc.... and I could be wrong).
@@franciscocunhaetavora9132You didn’t listen to Danny. You made up all this? He said that he measured at tweeter level. He uses an industrial standard for speaker measurement and Erin got a Kipple machine. Gives almost same result but Erin’s dig deeper. He changed the frequency response to the better, if you looked and listened. Changed the balance between the speakers. If you swap all the parts on a crossover to better parts, but with exactly same values, it will measure the same. Understand that! BUT the sound quality goes up several steps. If you haven’t experienced this yourself, then your are in for a treat when you do it yourself. If you haven’t experienced it yourself and don’t know the difference, then don’t make sour comments. Better parts makes it sound better. Same on your car, better tires gives you a better ride, handling, endurance and grip. Remember, these speakers was build to a nice, friendly market price point.
People who love the Wharfedale sound, will like the Lintons. I agree, the company could have invested a little more on the crossover components and drivers, and I believe that the more improved Lintons can sell well even at $2500. But even without the upgrades, I believe the Lintons as they are now, will attract a lot of audiophiles like me. I started many years ago with my first Wharfedales, the Diamond 5 and moved on to other Diamonds powered now by a tube integrated amplifier with EL 34's. Warm, smooth and beautiful music. I visited a friend's home the other night to listen to his $278,000 Focal speakers in his listening room, and a pair of $20,000. M40 Harbeths in his living room. I liked the Harbeths and found the Focals overwhelming even threatening but still impressive. Happy to get back home and listen comfortably to my stereo system which I bought brand new 8 years ago for around $1,400. Marantz cd, Cayin EL34 integrated tube amp, Diamond 10.4 floorstanders in my bedroom. Sublime contentment.
Exactly. Peter Corneau sad in the interview himself, that the final crossover design was version 11. He was chasing particular warm, classic tonality and wasn't content until he reached it. This is also one of the reasons the rest of my gear (multiple amps and CD players) all almost predominantly Yamaha, which is another hifi company that follows that specific idiom - 'sound first, technology second'.
I worked in the audio industry for over two decades. I have read or viewed well over 1000 reviews since the late 90's. I remember reading many professional reviewers' comments that they had run the industry lab testing on a product and the labs looked great. They couldn't wait to set the test product up in their listening room only to be disappointed in their listening tests. I've never read a review where someone said the lab results were so darned good, that they didn't bother to listen. Specs don't always tell the whole story. Maybe someday we can just listen to a good sounding speaker and enjoy it.
@@StrangerInParadise58 Until you hear speakers that truly don't need correcting. It's like driving a VW bug, not knowing about Lexus. The bug seems fine. Then one day you drive a Lexus. Glad you love em.
@@daleboylen6427 Thanks for your perspective. I completely understand it, but I’ve come to adopt and appreciate a different perspective. Fortunately, I have heard & owned the kind of speakers of which you speak. But I prefer the Lintons. One of the cardinal realities of audio and human hearing is the relative nature of personal audio preferences and nirvana. When people forget or overlook this reality, they often get befuddled by what puts a smile on another person’s face. But this is their problem, not that of the person with the smile. In other words, some people prefer a Volkswagen Bug over a Lexus any day. 😊 I am sure you are more than aware of this reality, but it plays central to these types of discussions and is often overlooked or forgotten. This is true not just in the realm of audio, but in almost every other area of life as well. Just keeping it real. Thanks again - I appreciate it.
$1,400 with the amazing stands. The cabinet is three layers, MDO and chip board + the Wood veneer is beautiful. Set-up: the tweeters go to the insde, so there is a definite R/L speaker. I would love to have a pair. Love my Wharffie Evo 4.3 and 4.2. Hands off my Wharffie's geek!
Well if the cabinet is MDO, we're sorry about this, there must have been a mistake in our production chain. One can always try to sell them back arguing it's real walnut, so you can quaduple the price. And that would be a nice deal.
Well Viv...they are real oak veneer but rather than the solid MDO of other manufacturers the walls are three layers with chip board at the inside layer, with purpose. This is the only neg review about these speakers. Excellent for the price.n before I'd f around adding $800 worth of aftermarket to these I'd just purchase the Wharfedale Evo 4.4, no brainer.
@@hmrowland6114 yeah this guys entire business is built around the typical audiophile FOMO. Once you learn to stop measuring and just start listening your life as an audiophile improves vastly. You invest more time enjoying music and way less obsessing about your next incremental tweak.
Initial measurements graph is the one most would prefer as sounds more pleasing to majority of music lovers and is designed as such with purpose. It should sound warm and not detailed as with new parts. Sound signature is suppose to recreate vintage sound that goes along with the looks. Not all speakers are to be upgraded!
The Lintons are supposed to be listened with the grilles on. I preferred the Sonus Faber Lumina III to the Lintons, but the Lintons are awesome speakers.
I am using a MiniDSP in conjunction with the Wharfedale Linton. I believe this is the best way to EQ the speakers to your meet your listening preference. Much cheaper without opening up the speakers. The main disadvantage is I could never achieve the increased sensitivity compare to the crossover upgrade. Then again, at the original 88 to 89 sensitivity, this is already quite good to begin with.
You reviewed the Wharfdale Linton and you found it had a "choppy" frequency response, and you revealed a curve you captured with your equipment of the Linton on loan to your shop that was in fact choppy, as you say. Stereophile magazine has reviewed a Wharfdale Linton pair that were decidedly not choppy, and the graph from their equipment demonstrated a frequency response free from choppiness. Why would Stereophile hide the choppiness? They don't sell expensive upgrades to Wharfdale Lintons and many other commercial products as you do. They don't stand to gain from frequency response that does not in fact exist. Then you accused Wharfdale of using "cheesy" parts in their crossovers. You discussed the various kinds of parts you prefer to see in such crossovers, but you neglected to discuss the vast increase in price. I'm quite sure that the price of the Wharfdale Lintons was a major factor in their popularity. The same purchaser probably wouldn't buy the Lintons at the price you would make them with your "non-cheesy" parts. An example of a "cheesy" part as described by you is a 4.7 microfarad non-polarized electrolytic capacitor that can be purchased from a parts supplier for sixty-seven cents. That is the kind of part most often used by most speaker manufacturers. An example of the kind of part you would rather use is a film capacitor, and most speaker builders would not use such a part in that location. Why? A 4.7 microfarad film capacitor will cost you eighty-six dollars from the same parts supplier. Imagine using six or eight such capacitors. That is a fantastic price increase that does not make a change in sound quality that most people can hear. You would be hard-pressed to demonstrate the increase in sound quality between the "cheesy" capacitor and the eighty-six dollar capacitor. You'd be hard-pressed to measure the difference between the two parts. I can imagine why you might neglect to mention this price difference. In fact the sixty-seven cent part is not cheesy at all. You would be hard-pressed to hear the difference, and your customer would probably choose the "cheesy" part if he was informed about the price difference.
Also, there is no single response graph that encapsulates what the speaker will end up sounding like. Speakers have different curves at every angle and since we are going to hear multiple arrivals from the listening position (unless we listen in an anechoic chamber) manufacturers often have to sacrifice a perfectly flat on-axis response to achieve a flatter room response. This also means not all rooms are suitable for a given speaker. Peter Comeau is a very experienced engineer and I have a hard time believing these speakers did not meet his design criteria.
First of all International Audio Group owns Wharfedale, Quad, Mission, Luxman, Castle Acoustics, and Tag McLaren. How much advertising, kickbacks and industry junkets do you think those brands provide stereophile and their reps? Secondly, the parts these mid-fi Lintons are made with are on par with $600 polks. Ok sure that's common, but they're just low grade parts no matter how you rationalize it. Now I'm not saying an upgrade makes sense here. I mean why spend that money on making a midfi speaker a bit better when you could just buy better speakers? But you barging in here with your bad logic and unfounded assertions sounds like you have an agenda.
I'm sorry but that's not true, I've done a few blind tests to compare the caps. I even asked people who have nothing with audio. They all picked the expensive caps out... I tried to fool them and they still picked them out. It was quite a bummer for me cos from that point I needed to spent more money for my self build, and every single time when I design a crossover it's quite confrontating. ( my apologies for the bad grammar, I'm dutch🙈)
Sir, I'm an old lover of Hi Fidelity from back in the 70's.. I am now diving back into HiFi .. I never was able to own any HiFi components of real value before, so I'm starting from scratch. so after listing and watching your videos and learning about the true engineering, it makes me want to take apart the components I already have just to see what's inside. I enjoy your videos it helps me to carefully select my future purchases... I'm at a budget level of $2k maybe $3k for any speakers or amps. Thanks for your educational videos it's helping me tremendously!
I love my Lintons and I have no problem with them designing to a price point. It is to be expected. I would much rather them leave room for improvement in the crossover than anywhere else. Besides, for the price, this speaker has proven to be a winner by many peoples ears. Ive planned to replace a few parts in the crossover but im a tad hesitant to change the design completely. I'll be looking forward to know how people respond to Danny's re-design.
If you have been in a mastering studio, you know that you absolutely don't want that "measurement perfection" in your leaving room ;) . The room correction is the first thing to do before any cross over tweeking or binding post replacement because frequency ring and bad reverberation is way more annoying than " cheesy parts " if you own those wonderful speakers.
Apart from the drivers, isn't the crossover the next most important component? I think the speaker manufacturers spend more effort / money on the cabinets than the crossovers, but the cabinets have less of and effect on the sound quality than the crossover. Surely a well braced plain MDF box is all you need but most people want their speakers to look good. This is why the DIY route gives you far more bang for your buck. Spend 90% on quality components and make the box as fancy as you want. You can start with a plain box and upgrade to some fancy veneer later on when funds allow.
@@miheadhurts Yes the crossover is important but despite the 'cheesy' parts inside, I still have respect for the product Wharfedale made. Besides, the narrative I've heard before Danny's video is that this speaker's performance punches above it's price point. I've seen nothing but good reviews. There are plenty of speakers with 'cheesy' parts that sound fantastic. If you want more then you will spend more.
@@P194-s3i no doubt they sound great but the parts might cost Wharfedale $300-$400. If you spend the same amount on the XLS Encore then you are likely to have a better speaker in the Encore. The Hi Fi manufacturers cannot compete with the the GR Research business model. Wharfedale get the speaker made in China, pay a decent amount for the packaging, ship to the US, pay import duty, send to distributors, send to the store and add tax then sell to the consumer. DIY isn't for everyone, but for those who are handy, it's the best way to build an awesome speaker for the least amount of cash. I'm weighing up with going with the pimped out Encores or Lii Audio Betsy open baffles. The Encores would suit my room better.
OK, so I don't own these, but for some reason I want to defend them.. I would like speakers with somewhat flat response, because that's a good starting point, and I have a treated room that I will treat more, and I use my speakers to mix records. So, that's one use case. Another, more typical use case is that you buy speakers and put them in your untreated living room and those speakers will either compliment the room acoustics or not. Maybe your room is large and light on bass - these might sound full where other speakers might sound thin. On the other hand, maybe your room has thick carpets so it's boxy and dark - you might want a speaker that measures bright and has a big dip at 800 hz. Beyond that, there is taste. So if you own these, and like them, it's very possible that things lined up for you. I say all of this because I have speakers that measure very flat in my mix room that are awesome for that, and I also have vintage speakers in my living room that I know there is no way they measure anywhere near flat, and they kick butt in that room by looking and sounding fun!
Same here! But if I was forced to choose between my Focal (Twin be) and the Linton, I'll choose the Linton :). The imaging is far better on the focal however...
Couldn’t agree more. Frequency response and other characteristics of speakers are like how you prefer your food to be seasoned. Some like some spice, others like some zest. Heck some people even enjoy pineapple on their pizza. The obsession with perfectly flat frequency response - not sure I get it.
Well, to a certain point, of course, but isn't it why EQ was put in use to begin with. -To EQUALize -To flatten the response? New speakers might not even have crossovers anymore, now more and more come with in-built amps with DSP. That's progress and I very much look forward to mass-production from more manufacturers.
@@BIGGIEsmalls13 Pineapple, which is sweet, paired with a salty meat, such as ham or Canadian bacon, paired with a spicy sauce, maybe with sun-ripened tomatoes, can balance the variety of flavors very nicely. Mixing sweet with spicy is a cliché in Sichuan cuisine. Pineapple isn't one of my favorite pizza toppings, but, if there's a fresh pineapple and Canadian bacon pizza on a buffet, I'll grab a slice or two.
I don't know... I own these as well, I love the warmth and tonality of these, highs could be a little cleaner and center imaging could be more spot on, but what I found after testing with various equipment and placement they do have a sound that keeps you engaged. "Even better with the right equipment" they are smooth and easy on the ears. I would be tempted to hear the difference however if you, yourself didn't or couldn't do a A/B comparison before and after the changes I would be skeptical to purchase at $731 without real world listening. I would be afraid it would change the tonality that makes these so good. I get the fact that these use cheap parts on the crossover but that has everything to do with price/performance and target audience they were going for. Were not talking Wilson Audio, Joseph Audio here with there spare no expense crossover/cabinet designs. The designer himself "Peter Comeau" spends hours/months of listening and tweaking before releasing his designs which the Linton's are one of those designs. You managed to do it in what 2 -3 weeks with no listening, based on graphs? I'm not trying to bash you and I am certainly not questioning your technical ability because you do excellent work but you should offer a trial or partial money back for at least the crossover it's self if the sound isn't up to par... Or give a few out to Linton owners as a real world test! Watch Peter the Linton's designer here - th-cam.com/video/F1WYNCZqOKY/w-d-xo.html
The upgrade isn't going to loose or give up anything that they had. It is going to take every aspect to another level (or two or three levels). And I have spent a carriers worth of time comparing the sonic signature of these parts. So I know exactly what the before and after effects are going to be. I have never had anyone say the smearing of those cheesy parts sure sounded better than the much cleaner sound of the higher quality parts.
Hi Danny, I'm a fan and long time watcher myself. I've often wondered if you actually listen to the speakers in stereo with proper placement before redesigning crossovers? Most of the time I get the impression you only have one speaker on hand and go purely off of measurements. These Lintons, for example, are voiced to sit on the included stands. Did you have the stands to listen to them?
@@deeplyclosetedindividual Listening to a poorly designed speaker or a speaker full of budget level parts is not useful in correcting what is wrong with them. I can hear the problems and quickly note the sound of a speaker playing through a wet blanket, but in the end I need to take the measurements to see the issues and get an idea of what will be needed to fix them. The upgrade in parts quality has more to do with how they sound in this case. The redesign just slightly rebalanced them to a more accurate level. No Rez takes care of the cabinet resonance issues of a large unbraced box, and new wiring and tube connectors improve clarity as well.
I'm exactly in the same position! There is something « magic » about those speakers in my point of view. A reviewer said: With those, you focus on the music performance not the sound of the speaker or technicality. And indeed they are more forgiving for poor or old recording but when you listen to something really well recorded, they shine...
@@deeplyclosetedindividual Fried, if you've watched enough of Danny's videos you'll find that he's a knowledgeable designer with a one track mind. There can only be one way for speakers to measure. One quality level for crossover parts, well, unless those parts are in his base level crossovers then they're okay. He loves to use the term "fix" when nothing is actually broken. It's merely that a speaker doesn't measure the way he wants it to measure. If someone thinks they like the same sort of sound Danny likes then they should just buy his kits rather than buying a speaker and sending it in to him in order to try and change it into something they like. The Lintons do have a smoky, bass heavy sound and a lot of people like that. Different strokes for different folks except in GR land.
My one critique: Danny assumes we all want flat frequency response or close to it. That's so misguided. Omg, speaker designers voice speakers how they want to for a reason. Some speakers are going for prominent vocals. Some are going for added bass. Some are going for low listening fatigue, etc. Some try to balance all three. Danny, please consider making crossover improvements which don't target frequency response too much. Please target better phase integration, directivity improvements, and distortion improvements/decay results. Consider not fussing about boosted areas and specific dips. They're often intended. Hint: most people enjoy more bass, better speech clarity (boosting a few regions humans don't hear well) and a way of reducing listening fatigue (cutting frequencies which resonate in the human ear canal). The revised ANSI Fletcher Munson curves provide the clues.
i agree...all videos are about make them ( speakers) "flat"., almost stripping "personality" from the product to achieve uniformity...I thought he (Danny) needs to work for the government...impose the control over crowds- don't be too loud, don't be too quiet, don't look like that, etc.
A more accurate frequency response is minor compared to what I focus on. Most of the corrections or real improvements that I make can be seen in a the spectral decay. That is where the most audible problems and real distortions can be seen. I also look at overall responses in the vertical and horizontal off axis. Strong improvements are also made from the quality of parts used along with removing poor connections and insertion losses of cheesy binding posts and wire. Further improvements are made by controlling cabinet wall resonances. These are more comprehensive and complete upgrades.
@@oleplanthafer7034 how was it a mic drop? Hint: it wasn't. He thinks he doesn't change the frequency response all that much, while I think he tends to flatten things out a bit too much while not focusing on other criteria I find more important. It is true that he often smooths the impedance results which does make a speaker easier to drive. Our disagreement is a matter of scale. It's nice to hear that the frequency response in his mind isn't always the most important improvement he makes. Phase, distortion, decay, and impedance are in my mind a better area to focus on than using most of the time on these upgrade videos talking about frequency response.
What puzzles me is the supposed reverence to the original Linton and Denton. I remember the 70s incarnations of these were cheap and not very good sounding speakers. Dull and boxy. They went through a number of iterations but none I recall were reviewed that well. The name certainly had a long production run though.
How could a speaker get, what seems to be, unanimous rave reviews across the board and have such a choppy response? Does that mean frequency response is somehow irrelevant? If there are negative--even mildly negative-- reviews out there, I haven't seen them. One of the most jaw dropping statements made about this speaker came from Erin's Audio Corner in his recently released video "My Top Five Speakers at ANY COST". He picked the Lintons in this group! -- And he owns a Klippel Near Field Acoustic Scanning System--as far as I know, the most powerful (and expensive) speaker measurement system on the planet. I can understand that these products use cheaper parts to fit into a certain price category, but I can't understand why these large companies, with very large budgets to hire top design engineers, would intentionally put out a poorly designed system. Where am I figuring wrong?
Some of those reviewers are really using budget level or mid fi level systems in rooms that are not well treated or set up well. So the bar isn't set very high.
ERINS AUDIO CORNER measured these, using a Far more accurate measurement system, and got a quite flat response with none of the uneven response?? He was not selling anything, nor had anything to gain from his review and measurements. Danny did you possibly do something wrong here, as your measurements are not matching up to a few very well respected set of measurements?
Our measuring system is also extremely accurate and considered reference level. Our measurements also match perfectly others in the industry. It is much more likely that there is a variance in production models that they send out.
I have finally finished installing the Danny designed upgrades to one of my two Lintons. I took the opportunity to A/B listen test the unmodified and Danny upgraded version in mono. Okay - so they are certainly not the same speakers. To be clear, the originals did not have the sound signature I enjoy (too laid back, midrange clarity was less than what I like, etc), thus why I went the upgrade path. The Danny designed version sounds much more upfront (not in your face) and the midrange clarity is astounding and the bass remains tight with (maybe) more extension. To my ears, the changes made by Danny in the frequency response are responsible for many of the positive (to me) changes. However, this upgrade has convinced me of the value of the parts quality! Listening over and over again to the same song on both speakers (alternating) was enough to 'sell' me. The major differences were in the treble and midrange - listening to Lumineers "Dead Sea", I could hear the separation of instruments, voices, and notes on individual instruments. Further, the lead singers voice can sometimes be a bit fatiguing over the unmodified Lintons, but this was gone with the modified one. Technical details - I used all the supplied upgrade parts except the tube connectors and no rez. I did not use the tube connectors because I did not wish to modify the cabinet. I did not use no Rez b/c the box is separated by the midrange tube (cabinet within cabinet) and the new crossover parts take up a lot of space, so I felt there was insufficient space left. So, instead I used roof membrane (rubberized asphalt adhesive backed by layer of high density cross laminated polyethylene) throughout the cabinet and then installed the crossover components on top. Other equipment: Benchmark pre-amp and dac, Schitt Aegir mono amp.
@@willbrown8433 It is pricey, but it took the speakers from not my taste to ones that I thoroughly enjoy. If I had not updated them, they would be back in a box or I would have sold them. There isn't really any comparison between the unmodified (fine) and the modified (really good). I have written more about this on the one of the other audio forms. Summary - for me it was very much worth it. The midrange is now incredible clear and articulate; i can hear details that were not present before. Hope that helps.
Awesome post. Finally someone speaking the truth. Lintons are horrible for treble and midrange, bass is awesome. It's unfortunate because they just sound dull, lack clarity and vocals are just bad. I'm considering spending money on upgrades, or just selling them. You play Hans Zimmer Curse of Black Pearl or Medley and you realize you miss 1/3 of the instruments. Sad experience.
Thanks for posting the feedback on this one, but you are still missing some of the performance offered by the upgrade. The No Rez will do a much better job of controlling the cabinet resonances and it is air volume neutral while the stuff that you used actually takes up air space. The reason the No Rez is air space neutral is that the added foam layer slows down the airflow in the box making the box act as if it is larger. So it give you deep and well controlled bass without shifting the tuning frequency to a higher range. The tube connectors will also improve clarity quite a bit and across the board to each end of it range. They are definitely worth the effort.
I replaced my $8k Proac speakers with the LIntons and love them. They are $1,499. including the nice steel stands and they sound great to me and should never be used with the grills off. I clicked the link but it's dead, so I assume no one is interested in buy the "upgrade".
Thanks for letting us know the link is broken. We'll fix that shortly. Actually, quite a few people have been interested in this one. We have sold a lot of them, and if you think they sound great now, you will be amazed at how much better they can sound.
Nice upgrade to the design. I'm not sure I agree that all wide baffle speakers image poorly though compared to narrow baffle speakers. It depends on how well they are designed. Narrow baffles do inherently image better but you typically have the baffle step problems with the sharp dip in the bass response which is almost impossible to remove effectively with filters. Not so much of an issue with wide baffle speakers which have made a bit of a comeback recently.Take the JBL L100 Classic for example which images superbly well for a chunky speaker.
I really did not find them bad relative to price , yes it is colored , yes does not image that wide , but really has something about the sound that is correct and keeps coming back. Relative on the bass , i liked it , powerful but supple If it was me , I would put better parts on it , something that would keep that vintage kind of balance ( Jantzen alumni series capacitors for example , Duelund bypass caps, air core inductors yes, ) and would change the intern cable for Duelund tinned copper cable or old western electric one.
The NEW Wharfedale Dovedale speakers actually have TWO PC Boards isolated from each other for their crossover network. One for the bass and the other for the mid/treble! Look for some of the TH-cam videos of Peter Comeau from Wharfedale talking about crossover designs. His knowledge of them FAR EXCEED's Dannys knowledge.
@@dannyrichie9743 Did you even bother to watch the video? I didn't think so. While I respect your knowledge and channel, what you say is not the LAST WORD in Speaker and crossover design!
@@dontcare563 Well, I know one thing for sure. Whoever is designing crossovers for Wharfedale certainly is not the guy to be praising. We just had the Wharfedale Denton in for upgrades. Man, that thing was a mess.
I've had mine for a month now running a LS3 pre and B&K mono amps and I get a great soundstage on these in my room and love the sound. If the upgrade improves the sound that would be even more amazing.
I love watching Danny's name & shame videos but it doesn't always have to be all or nothing either, recently bought a pair of Dali Oberon 5's which review very well for their pricepoint, found them to have a boomy, boxy type sound which I hate, had a sheet of wool type wadding from a previous purchase laying around, so just filled some gaps in the cabinet with it, hey presto, now love my speakers, upgrade cost zero 🙂
I own these and would never change the original design of any internal parts. The sound is beautiful and especially for the price, very hard to beat this performance and price point together in one speaker and its a three way....just a gorgeous sounding speaker. Can't wait for the dovetail's.
They're supposed to have that warmed up bass region, makes them sound rich and warm at low to medium volume levels. I wonder how incredible you could have made it with some tweaks that left the woofer alone.
The Lintons sound good in room. Especially lived-in rooms with some clutter and padding about it. They work great in the near field as well. You can already buy/build $2000 worth of flatter measuring speakers if that's what you want, without trying to second-guess this design's so-called faults. There is no shortage of people complaining about, or trying to 'warm' up flatter measuring speakers and many end up on the auction block regardless. Most people that are into smooth and low distortion music will like these. I could keep these as main speakers from here on out.
Remember those giant Fisher stereo systems? I think you could get them at places like Sear's or JC Penney's. The speakers were probably close to 5 feet tall, & had 15" woofers.
I have a pair of Mirage here that are four feet tall and sound very good. They are music they have a driver on both sides..bi polar I think it's called.
someone sent me a comment saying "So many amazing mixes have been done using these speakers, how do I explain that"? Many MORE mixes have been done on Yamaha NS10's than on Lintons. Few would ever refer to NS10's as "amazing speakers" Many mixes are done on Genelec speakers with very high order crossovers. Many mixes were done on old JBL 4311's. The way I explain that is simple: great engineers. Not great speakers. Example, I took a pair of speakers a physicist friend designed to a studio on Maui where Willie Nelson has recorded. The guy was using Genelec's. I left them with him over the weekend. When I returned to pick them up, he said they dropped his jaw and he was unprepared for the sound that came out of them and how DEEPLY he could hear into his mixes. A mastering engineer at Sony felt the same way. My friends speakers cut his mastering time in half, he said. You can mix on ANY speaker. I'm unaware of any studios using Linton's as mixing monitors, but stranger things have happened. As a recording engineer I ask ONE THING of monitors: DON'T SCREW UP THE WAVEFORM.
All very true. Many people that mix or master never really hear what is in the recording. We used to have a local recording studio come by ever few days to listen to something they mixed. Then they would go remix and come back again. I finally sold him a pair of mini monitors to mix with so that he could hear what he was listening for. I don't think he ever used his Mackies again.
Growing up in the 70's many British speakers had a laid-back but relaxing sound which had its followers. Their construction quality was ok and if they weren't overdriven they lasted long enough to be handed-down to someone else. Now China produces many "British" loudspeakers to an impeccable fit and finish with veneer & colour options to match one's decor. The question is, do these sound better than the originals and is there some preserved gold-standard to which we can compare?
I am listening to mine right now. After 100 hours of use, I can say that I 'like' them. I can see their appeal for some types of music and the aesthetics of the the vintage frame and stands is a winner for me. But I don't 'love' them and have been itching to mod them. There are noticible flaws that are not related to room acoustics or placement. It's the speakers! First: they are not 'bass heavy', they are bass sloppy. There seems to be constant struggle between the bass driver and the bass from the rear ports. Add in that hollow cabinet, and it just sounds 'wrong'. It's impossible to just ignore it, as the bass (I don't even want to call it frequency) changes with each step you take. I even thought of adding a pair of Kef KC-62 subs just to conceal the issue. But still; overall, there is something I really 'like' about the overall sound. I'm sure the prominent mid section plays a key role. And I do like a warmer vintage throwback sound. But the tweeter - well? The tweeter sounded terrible and gradually did become tolerable. I can't pin down what the issue is, but many others have pointed toward "grainy". I'm willing to bet that they really cheaped out on crossover parts where they were needed for the tweeter. Maybe there was a stylistic choice to choke the tweeter so that it didn't interfere with the desired 'vintage' sound. Maybe they limited the tweeter so as not to outshine their higher tier speakers. But it had to be 'choice' to let this speaker go to market with such a glaring flaw. Aside: I have a pet pigeon who I adopted from the Humane Society with rickets, malformed bones, multiple broken bones, and just overall bad health. I gave that pigeon all the love and care and good nourishment I can. Today, he is a strong little cocky beautiful playful happy pigeon. I think these speakers have so much to offer once they're given what they need. I'm really glad that Danny and others have been able to show that there is hope for correcting the failings of this speaker. I believe there really is something special about these speakers that deserves effort to nurture them to the next level.
Keep in mind that we measured a production model and not a pair sent out for review. So there may be quite a bit of variance between units. Also, this upgrade is not just about the frequency response. The crossover parts were super cheap and cheesy. The cabinets resonated badly. The wiring was poor. The connectors were a bottleneck, etc. We made huge improvements to these in multiple areas.
I love this style of speaker. I've repaired and upgraded many pairs of Ditton 44s and just love that 70s style. Yes they have issues with having such a big front baffle and that trim round the face doesn't help but they are beautiful. Like you Danny I do wish manufacturers would put better parts in their crossovers.
I did a direct comparison of these with my dealer, using my amp, with the Triangle 40th Anniversary Comètes. I bought the Comètes. I had thought the Lintons would be quite good, but was quite disappointed. The sounded dull, slow and woolly. The cost of the upgrade kit puts them roughly in the same price category of the Comètes, maybe even higher.
Congrats on the Cometes. I think Triangle speakers are superb, I have the Titus EZ and they are the best small speaker I've heard under £1000: agile, punchy, sweet, capable of big dynamic sweeps but also great delicacy. I'm sure the Cometes would be very special, particularly the anniversary edition.
I've chosen simpler way. First i got rid of connectors and soldered wires to posts on drivers. Then I've gradually changed most of the Lintons crossover components for better ones with the exception of adding one bypass cap on C1 position. Pathaudio and Mundorf resistors, Jantzen Silver cap on C1 (slightly too extended heights but much more details, Miflex bypass cap helps), Jantzen Superior and Standard and Miflex KPCU capacitors. All together cost half of what Danny did. Lintons became much cleaner in midrange and bass, they are faster, breathe easier, are more dynamic and image better due to better tolerances of the components. What is most important, they retain most of their character. Haven't done any measurements but I can tell they sound closer to what I would like to hear, being a classical musician, conductor and an opera singer. One interesting thing I've noticed the other day when doing mastering with my not quite studio reference AKG K242HD headphones, that I like a lot for their lushness and pleasant midrange, is that they sound almost exactly the same as Lintons.
Danny, which reasonably cheap 15uF cap would you suggest on C3 high pass positition if I would like to get more realistic timber mostly on cymbals and better attack, transient response? Does changing this cap even matter all that much? I wouldn't risk with another Jantzen as they all seem a bit to smooth, silky with slight lack of texture. Though they are much much better than those original Chinese caps.
@@dannyrichie9743 sorry, C3 cap is second capacitor in high pass signal path. Comes after inductor. I guess this cap works as additional trimming of frequency drop curvature? It's hard to find good info about this specific design on internet.
I think these were never meant to have flat frequency curve. More like warm sounding with vintage look. What I have heard Wharfedale Evo-series is more "hifi speaker" sounding with flatter frequency curve. Wharfedale EVO 4.2 is fantastic in my opinion. I greatly appreciate work what Danny has done to it. Looking at the improved frequency curve it looks more something what I would like.
Would be great to see an upgrade to the EVO 4.2. Have owned them paired together with an Yamaha A-S2100 amplifier. Think they would be even better after an upgrade with better components.
I have these since a few months. aside from measurements (which mean exactly that, nothing), I can safely say that these speakers are the first pair I have owned (and i'm 42 now, so i had quite a few) that actually sing, and make music. They have an uncanny way of getting me into the music, like you are being envelopped by a blanket of music. If you have special memories about a song, trust me, thesse will take you right back to that moment. They draw out emotion like no other (and that is what music is). These werent made to be measured, they were made to be listened to. A few hours with these will make that abundantly clear. in every aspect. 10/10 , would buy again.
It is not just about the measurements. They had a lot of other issues, not least of which was the crossovers were garbage. If you like them in stock form then you would really love them after the upgrade. It takes them to a whole new level.
@@dannyrichie9743 you have clearly not read my post. Why would I want to "upgrade" the crossovers (which alter the sound and signature) when they do for me what I have described? I don't give a rat's a** what's in there. They sound fantastic to me and that's all that counts. A measurement or a good or bad crossover doesn't change anything about how they make me feel when I listen to them - and that is pure bliss.
@@fredspekvet5875 You're happy and that's good, but whether or not improvements in sound quality (in all areas) would not improve your enjoyment or how you feel when listening is pure speculation.
Can’t recommend it stock?! It’s a 1k speaker what were you expecting? 😁 Where would the profit come from if they used more expensive parts? It would be a more expensive better performing product. It’s like saying, this Ford Focus is cheap but it doesn’t drive like an Audi A3 because it’s got cheap parts and they need upgrading to make it acceptable. It’s cheaper for a reason. 🤯
That is an issue. I mean if Wharfedale could make a version at say $2500 instead of $1500 that sounds demonstrably better, they really ought to do so. Many people looking for "end game" speakers would jump on them in a heartbeat. Maybe Wharfedale expects them to look upstream at their more expensive offerings I guess, but you sacrifice the nice old school looks and beauty.
I just re-watched The Audiophiliac´s review. His observations match Danny's comments of parts quality and frequency response pretty much 100%. I am stunned!
The Audiophiliac always say to not trust the measurements so much but listen for yourself. That is a very good recommendation. If I recall correctly, he loves the B&W 606... ask Danny about those...
@@raymoore8435 yeah and it seems to me Danny doesn't provide upgrades to speakers he doesn't like. There are a couple of examples already. A lot of people think that if a speaker can be upgraded then it sucks. That's not how I see it. Steve's comments on frequency response match Danny's measurements and comments, and Steve's comments on treble quality match Danny's assessment of poor parts quality in the treble crossover circuit.
The original crossover was probably designed to sound like an old fashion box speaker with a house curve. This is the one time I don't see the logic of upgrading. Most people probably bought it knowing what it is. Over priced for what it is in my opinion. I'm glad he had it on the table I thought they were bigger.
@@ChicagoRob2 he kind of is in some ways. Not every speaker is supposed to have a perfectly flat frequency response. Some people WANT a bit of resonance or accentuated high end response. Sound is subjective. He must know this.
@@sergeysmelnik The Stereophile frequency response measurement is very similar to Danny’s. I also read several complaints from actual Linton owners of elevated bass, excessive warmth, and rolled off highs.
talking about narrow baffle, that is why i designed my speaker with 106mm baffle width, then a 45 degree angle backward for 40mm. as narrow as i could get the woofers to fit.
These are excellent speakers but great when upgraded. Change to better crossover components(Mundorf and Jatzen, use same values), New binding post, solder all wires directly to the drivers with quality silver and treat all driver membranes with C37 lacquer. And then…you will have a serius high end speaker ($10k-$15k in my opinion compared to others that I own).
I've watched about 20 of these vids and have yet to hear anything describing sound that would make me like or dislike a speaker. Im convinced of absolutely nothing other than knowing I will trust my ears over measurements.
Yep, me too as I found this channel a couple weeks back. No mention of actual listening sessions, just measurements. One would think there would be a before and after music listening test? -Or to the benefit of the channel; it could be just that he is so experienced in both listening and measuring, that he KNOWS how it sounds. Don't know, but I also wonder about the assumingly only focus on measuring.
By now you should have figured out that he is offering upgrades to mass produced speakers for people who already own those speakers and want to make them a little better. He is not doing speaker reveiws. Simple.
@@fredygump5578 Well, problem is that he kinda is reviewing. And while he has a business, there is incentive for him to find something wrong with every speaker, so the sales on upgrade goes well. That's where the other side of the story comes in; the, maybe blind, listening test, before and after upgrade. Without this, we can't seem to know if it is an objective bit or an subjective plug for more sales..
@@mrpeterfromgodknowswhere Yeah, I guess it is totally outrageous that a company would try to sell you their products and services! And you're probably right--every speaker on the market is designed to absolute perfection, so no improvements can be made to any of them. It's silly to even try, right?
@@fredygump5578 Fredy, you're misinterpreting me a bit, I think. I'm just pointing out the lack of apparent objectivity, which, if present, would be far more convincing of the product he is selling. This could be done with an a/b listening session by other likeminded hifi "nerds" e.g. in a collab.
Basically every speaker I have seen you review has 'cheesy' parts. Yet many were highly rated. I am doubting how stuff looks on your charts really matters much. But, it's good for your business.
That is kind of bizarre... I own the Linton and I love them. They are colored but not at all with the regular "V shape". The mid are really revealing and I can easily judge subtleties of a mastering on those. After your review of Sony's sscs5 I got them for my 5.1 home setup. From a measurement point of view, the Sony seems "way better" to you. In reality, the Linton are 10 times better with there flaws then the Sony .... And I'm pretty sure the Sony with your modification would not at all compete with the Linton as is (I would be very curious to hear that). This commentary come from a sound engineer working with Focal 5k $ monitor speakers in a tuned room all day long... nevertheless , your channel is very interesting and I guess there is an explanation on that gap between my "in reality impression" versus measurements....
@@dannyrichie9743 I can imagine that with a well integrated sub it could improve dramatically (not so much with my "ok" 5.1 regular sub...) In my perception, even the mids of the Linton are way more full and interesting ( for exemple listening to a good recording of Mel Tormé with a big band, the voice is rich and the separation and details of the horns is better and I don't think that's a sub thing....) in classical music the "paper" tone of those mid is very pleasing particularly with strings. I don't enjoy orchestral recording as much on my Focal with beryllium tweeters.... maybe it's just a color that is well suited for some style of music that I like in my living room... the way that the Linton react to transients is interesting two.... the details are there but unlike the Focal, it is never "shouty". it's like a "tube compression" . I wonder how mesurements can show that kind of quality...
@@guystpierrecomposer The measurements don't show quality. They show accuracy. If you like the Linton in stock form then you'd probably really love them after the upgrade. The Focal model has a hot top end that is a little hard to take at limes. So it is a completely different sounding speaker. Those are loaded with mostly cheesy parts too and that's a problem with them as well.
@@guystpierrecomposer are you referring to the Focal trio 6 or 11 ? I have the 11 and am very happy with it . It’s very impressive that these Lintons are up there in sound quality ! Thanks for sharing .
Interestingly, I auditioned the Lintons last week as a possible replacement for my refurbished AR-2ax speakers. I did not like the roughness of the Linton's high frequencies and felt that my old ARs were better in most respects, except for efficiency and sound at low volumes. In the end I passed and will continue searching unless I can find something much better than the ARs
If we all wanted a flat frequency response we'd all have some sort of studio monitor. I listen to studio monitors most of the day at work ( A pair of Adam Audio S3X-V and/or Neumann KH80s with sub) and I don't need that analytical sound when I go home. I need speakers that sound good, feel good. Not speakers that rip apart every mix.
I agree. I have a pair of 80s speakers we use for vinyl and sometimes for a couple of minutes I get lost in time. The crossovers are simple on those Boston Acoustics but I love the sound.
@@sergeysmelnik I will check it out. I liked GR videos and figured that I bet some speakers could use some new parts but he says you ca not find a good pair of 1500 dollar speakers. The KEF q series are very good and the upgrade from him for those was just something that cleared a little bump. They have some issues like all speakers but for 350 a pair US they are very good. The floor standing q series is good as well.
This is why this speaker is so popular right now -overripe bass is great for classic rock hello Zep II -it also has neato stands that store LP’s as well -a throwback design for sure -
Every speaker has its own sound. That's why we have different speakers! If all speakers had the same flat response and gain, they'd all sound the same. Don't really get the idea of these videos other than selling these "upgrade" kits.
@Lloyd Stout a TH-cam video is what got me started back into vinyl. I could hear the sound quality difference over my phone without without even being hooked up to a Bluetooth speaker! Some sound quality differences can definitely be heard on TH-cam. Probably not the best medium for comparing products but I have heard it done and could clearly hear differences.
Unfortunately only one speaker was sent in to us for evaluation.. But there are some A/B comparisons of the RP600M Danny did an update for. But in my experience, there's a lot of auditory information that gets lost in the recording vs in person, even with a bi-neural "head" and TH-cam compounds that by removing all information above 16KHz, where a lot of "air" and spatial cues reside. That said there are often still a lot of differences you can still hear, despite the imperfect of the recording/uploading process.
@@hoth2112 TH-cam only compresses over 16khz when your select lower quality video, choosing the highest resolution will give you the original frequency range
I wonder what you would think of my old Philips' from 70's.. the baffle is even wider than this one, for sure sounds better with grill on but that's how they were designed
one of the best measuring speaker of all times, damn near perfect, if you touch them you should go straight to the seventh circle. stop being a snake oil schill.
Based on whose measurements? Show me an independent 3rd party measuring them, not Stereophile that reaps lots of ad revenue from IAG who owns many brands, including Wharfedale. I wish someone would send G-R a set of Evo 4.4 speakers for testing and any "upgrades" to see how they compare to the Lintons.
No surprises here, with a big hollow-sounding box and spaced drivers. Shame the measurements don't show the box output.Maybe the box resonances flatten out the total response? 🎶😉🎶
I have watched many of your videos in order to deepen my understanding of audio reproduction and I appreciate that you take a data-testing approach to your reviews, it overrides the subjective nature of how a speaker sounds. What have learned? High-quality audio reproduction is not cheap and extremely nuanced.
Many speaker designers intentionally make that kind of somewhat sloped (from bottom to top) frequency response and claim that in a regular room it sounds better this way.
Designed to be used with grilles on with tweeters facing inwards. Using the word 'performance' is misleading. Someone in the UK has modded the cross overs and now can't sell them on eBay. Why do you want to biwire, why? These are hifi speakers for music not films using a receiver. It's all just crap. I don't owe them, but I have listened to them on their stands, properly run in with six hifi amps including class AB, G and D. Music is about emotion and pleasure, I am not twelve and consequently graphs don't impress me. Ridiculously out of context blatent sales attempt. Oh, I am an aerospace electronics engineer of 56 years.
I have them hooked up to my Luxman el84 amp, absolute heaven (25m2 room). Are there better? Certainly. At this price though, they are just fantastic (classical and jazz mostly)
I'm only new to your station but I've watched many of your video's and noticed that regardless of make or price of speakers you seem to find problems with them which is cool. I have two question's the first being is there a speaker on the market you have heard that don't need any kind of tweaking at all Have you ever worked in a company that manufactures speakers ?
Any speaker can be improved or upgraded. We even offer upgrades to our own models. There are some gems out there that don't need much tweaking. I also have done design work for many other companies. My designs have won just about every industry award there is.
They’re great sounding speakers right out of the box as long as you place them correctly in the room, they give speakers twice the price a run for their money. The construction of the drivers with die cast baskets and Kevlar cones and double skinned cabinet are really good.
I find reviewers, particularly TH-cam reviewers love everything. $85.00/pair (shipped) speakers blow their minds. If those who know about audio, measurements, wiggles in impedance curves, step response tests, etc question them, they are immediately hit with the "Audiophiles are full of crap" mantra. I'm sure you hear daily "You're just trying to sell me worthless upgrades" They don't understand that parts matter. Design matters. Crossover topology matters. Truth is 99% of the TH-cam reviewers would fail a simple Q&A asking about what the test data actually means. It's exhausting trying to educate them as they simply don't care to learn.
@@shiraz1736 Amazing huh? The tests do not back up those statements. Music is NOT recorded with certain frequencies in reverse polarity. (Recording engineer here). Why on earth play it back that way? Then call that product "amazing". Shows a lack of knowledge. It's ok to like it. If you want to buy them go ahead. You'll sell them though once the "Amazing" wears off.
Guys like Steve Gutenberg and Herb Reichert have been listening to the good, the bad, and the ugly for 40+ years. They know good sound well enough that they don't need a frequency response graph to recognize a good or a bad component. And if they "love everything", it's because they aren't bothering to do reviews of the crap, when there's good stuff to review. Why would they waste their time reviewing a piece of crap?
@@tedhersh9095 Have I heard the Linton's Nope. Heard, sold, owned, auditioned Henry Kloss speakers going back to his A/R days, sold Advents, Boston's, KLH's. I'm familiar with what his speakers sound like. I can also read and understand measurements. Don't really NEED to hear them. I'm 100% sure my opinion of KLH designs are not going to change by hearing them. It's the CROSSOVER that's the issue, and I can hear ALL high order crossovers.
Ok, pre-disclosure I have not heard these speakers. What I have heard is the sort of predecessors - the Wharfedale Dentons. I use them in my lawyers office with a Technics 1200 turntable. OK it is for looks but I still needed them to sound good. The Dentons were overwhelmingly fabulous. Yes, bass shy but that is it! I am surmising the Lintons can only be better. I am sure an audiophile who has a decent sub can run these and they are good for 10 plus years.
Lintons sound good to many ears that prefer their bass but for a tiny bit more you can get the KLH Model 5 which is more revealing and the bass is more accurate and faster.
I have the Lintons. We replaced a cap and a condenser I think for the high frequencies. That really helped the high frequency smooth out. I'm wondering about your setup. How much work is it to put the new crossover in? Thank you .
That sounds like it would be a good listen. The retro looks are appealing. Maybe some felt or foam on the baffle would help. I get the feeling that Wharfedale wanted a slightly vintage sound, a nod to designs they had in the 1960s and 1970s, old Wharfedales seemed a bit warm, mid-forward and a bit soft in the treble. They would have used paper drivers and would probably have been designed around low wattage amplifiers. I guess these would still sound modern, more revealing and give reasonable bass at normal to low volumes. Modern recordings have almost too much treble so the down tilt would have been good at balancing the sound. I don’t know, I haven’t auditioned them. What did they sound like playing music? I am guessing they covered their tracks well by being easy to listen to. I would love to get a review of the standard vs the GR modified version. The new one must be transformed. Please let us know how they compare playing music in a review situation.
Nice results. Have a pair of the Wharfedale Denton 80th. Same sound signature, boosted bass and recessed highs. The highs also sound grainy at times. Overall like the speakers just wish they were more balanced and refined. Any plans to analyze the Dentons or the Triangle BR03?
Forget about the measurements. How do these sound? If your approach is to adapt a set of speakers to measure to the same parameters / benchmark surely it will loose its characteristics and all start to sound the same? Surely if they sound good, they sound good regardless of the measurements? IDK, Im starting to trust my ears more and have replaced all of my gear in the process and have become much more content with my setup.
The measurements just show accuracy, not how they sound. The upgrades in components, tube connectors, new wiring, and No Rez have much more to do with how they sound.
As for today, April 9 of 2023, Danny have double amount of comments on these speakers then Erin’s Corner. He do fire up people with his upgrades. Some people don’t like changes and especially expensive changes that speaker manufacturers avoid to do in order to meet a price point. Danny reduced the crossover parts. Why? Both Erin and Danny found some issues around 1-2 kHz. Danny gives us an expensive kit, but the parts cost and it does take this speakers to a better level then before. Even reduces the parts then original. Those who have heard theses speakers both before and after, they know.
We need review of the classic JAMO Concert 8 bookshelf speakers🤔 Would be very curious to hear your thoughts and recommendations on those in the future 🙏
I have a pair of Linton's that I purchased in the spring of 2020. I'm an old timer and have these Linton's paired with a my restored Marantz 2270 that I purchased back in college around 1974 or 75. My wife and I do enjoy the Linton's warm sound but I've often wondered if they sounded a bit muddy at times. Our music preferences are varied as I listen to my old Pink Floyd albums along with newer pop as well. I stumbled across this video while looking at a few other audiophile reviews. I'll admit I'm a bit intrigued by this upgrade and wonder what type of skill level is needed to complete the upgrade. I'm assuming the work is completed from the front by removing the speakers and there is no need to break out the sawzall and open the backside. :) I did a bit of soldering when I was much younger as my father was an electronics repair man and unfortunately I didn't pick up all his skills but do have all his old irons. With this video being relatively new has anyone actually made the upgrade besides Danny and can speak to the merits of the upgrade both in sound quality and ease of doing the upgrade itself?
I've done some upgrades on my lintons. Lay lintons on their back, remove bas driver, unscrew and unplug the board from terminals and you should get enough room to do the work. No need to unsolder other wires. Most of the muddiness comes from the electrolytic 22uf midrange capacitor, you will also gain clarity if you change 6.8uf tweeter capacitor for something better. This will give you most benefits for not much work and money spent. You can also change sandcast resistors on high pass and midrange path with some better wire-wound resistors. Next you could change all of those yellow Spirit capacitors. I could say they make the sound of Lintons with their smooth character but they are just smoothing transients, not letting the details and natural sound come through.
Quoted from Peter Comeau.
"I thought would put my official reply into this thread because there’s a lot of misinformation out there and it is worrying owners who, otherwise, would probably be quite happy with their speakers. I don’t want to get into arguments with people who have strong opinions on this subject, but you all deserve to know the difference between fact and BS. So here goes …
Resistors: as is typical in the hi-fi manufacturing industry, we use Cermet resistors. These are wirewound resistors encased in a ceramic housing. Generally they do their job very well and have minimal effect on dynamics. You can replace them with Mundorf Supreme and possibly get some benefit. I suspect that is probably the biggest audible difference in the HEADquarter Audio mod.
Capacitors: the majority of caps in the standard crossover are polypropylene. There are some high value electrolytics but they are bypassed with PP caps to reduce any distortion. So is there any reason to replace them? You could replace the electrolytics with a load of PP types but you’ll have trouble fitting them on the PCB.
I don’t really understand why HEADquarter Audio think that the really superb quality PP cap in the HF section can be improved by a Jantzen type? But I will get hold of some Jantzen caps and do some tests and report back on what I hear, probably after Christmas.
Coils: we use silicon iron layered core inductors in the bass and midrange in order to keep DC resistance low. These types of cores have a good hysteresis loop and, in general, I prefer to keep DC resistance low especially for high value inductors in the bass. There would be an audible difference if you replace the midrange coil with an air core but make sure you keep the DC resistance low. Which means a big coil! So you need to Mount it off the PCB and keep it well away and at right angles to the other coils.
What is often not appreciated about air core coils is that they are much more prone to electromagnetic interference than cored coils. So, if you’re going to use them, you need to space them well apart. Usually I use two PCBs if I’m going to do this.
Terminals: all our terminals are plated copper. Why people want to replace terminals like these I don’t understand. There might be a benefit in using a low metal content terminal like the special ones from WBT. Keeping the metal content low is supposed to reduce eddy current effects. But then you have all the wires and coils inside the speaker, which also contribute these effects, so what are you going to do?
Cables: we use good quality connecting cables internally. Some people like exotic cables. You could play around here but IMO the benefits, if any, are minimal. But maybe worth it to some people.
Solder connections to drive units: The reason we use push on connectors is to enable easy servicing. I have seen lots of drive units ruined by overheating the terminals when poorly soldered by hasty service mechanics. Years ago I held a blind listening test on soldered vs push on terminals. The results were inconclusive. Here’s why I think that is …
We crimp push on terminals onto the cables using high pressure machines. This makes an excellent metal to metal, air free joint. The push on terminals then slide tightly onto the drive unit terminal blades. This wiping action again makes a good metal to metal contact and our terminals are the locking type which means that contact stays stable. With soldered joints the current passes from the cable through solder to the blade. Most solder is an amalgam of different metals which lower its melting point, has a chemical action on the metal to wet it, and is oxidised when it melts and cools. If you’re going to use solder make sure it has a high percentage of silver and solder at the manufacturer’s recommended temperature.
Frequency response: Frequency response in axis at 1m doesn’t give you any clue as to how a speaker sounds. The ear/brain system is much more critical of temporal performance and whether the harmonic structure of an impulse is correct/realistic than it is of 3dB changes in frequency level. Also, how you make these measurements is critical. Making a gated response in-room, like GR Research, is prone to huge errors. Compare its results to the Stereophile and Erin’s Audio Corner reviews. Erin and Stereophile accord to the measurements I make as a designer.
Nuff said."
Thanks for this one! 👌
What Peter Comeau calls good, we call budget level cheesy parts. Much of what he just stated is total BS. The fact is these were built to a price point and the upgrade offers a considerable performance upgrade for those interested and many have ordered this upgrade. The feedback we get on the upgrade from the customer is overwhelming positive. So the performance speaks for itself.
@@dannyrichie9743the art of making nice speakers for a nice price is the use of not so expensive parts and still get a good sound. This speaker is very good for the price. Upgrading is spending extra money that you don’t want to spend, because then you already did that on more expensive speakers.
@@Freedom89984 The elephant in the room is that Danny also makes and sells speakers -- which is a raging conflict of interest that nobody ever talks about. He even uploaded a YT review once with a title something like, "This is the best speaker we've ever heard in here" and ... it turned out to be HIS OWN SPEAKER. To me, that's disqualifying. Full stop.
@@Freedom89984 It also would have made for a much more interesting reply from Danny if he'd actually spoken to any of the technical points raised by Mr Comeau, which he conspicuously -- *conspicuously* -- did not. Personally I've long suspected that the entire business model falls apart if we ever stop and ask ourselves whose word we're supposed to take about the sonic improvements of the replacement parts.
I like the sound of the Linton's as is, if I would upgrade, I assume it would be too bright for me.
Thank goodness I listen to speakers and not graph's.
The graphs will show how accurate a speaker is and not how it sounds. However, the measured responses will reveal problems like out of phase drivers, ringing, break up, stored energy, and response imbalances. And those issues are audible.
It's all so ridiculous...
@@dannyrichie9743 Every Speaker's I own and listen to have there own character's. This makes it special and exciting.
If the graphs show a +15db boost 15khz-20khz they're going to be pretty awful harsh sounding they are
@@dannyrichie9743 if all of these “issues” are audible, then how come these speakers sound so good (as evidenced by the reviews and the hundreds of comments listed here)?
The Lintons have become my personal end-game speakers as I near retirement. I absolutely love them. I have paired them with dual SVS SB3000 subwoofers .... and they put the artists in my room, pure and simple.
Do you use them purely for your stereo set up or do you use this with a home theater system as well?
I agree................These are giant killers ........and I don't care what the ISSUES are.........they satisfy me and that's all that matters!!!
Heard these numerous times with various electronics and consistently sounded like mud. But their owners loved them.
End game , Lol 🫢
@@tms372 Yes, absolutely … for me. Still true to this day. Have you found yours?
Sound amazing whatever they threw in there. Love it the way it is. Smooth, soundstage is great.
i have them in one of my systems and love them indeed, they are definitly coloured but have good warm sound that i like.
Very harsh words. In spring 2021, I had the opportunity to listen to these speakers in a special listening room and with many other speakers in a any price range. I loved them right away, they sound very good, especially bass. The most expensive speakers we listened to was 80 000€, but they were weak for me, too many high frequencies and less bass. I thinks this mode makes them like this 80000€ again, too much highs and low bass. There were 3 more audio files in the room, two of them didn't like Wharfedal as much as I did, but the third also liked it very much. I think these speakers are such that they like it very much or not at all. After listening to them, I went and bought these speakers and I am still very satisfied today.
I’m pretty sure if you had 80,000euros in your bank account you would have chose those instead of the Lintons.
@@borisbulldog If i have 80k€ free money, then Yes, i think, i wouldnt buy those speakers. But I wouldnt buy speakers I heard there, maybe i find something better for this money.
@@borisbulldog Unless he is hard-of-hearing, like most Linton owners.
Are those audio files (sic) kept in a filing cabinet¿
@@robertherman1146 What an ignorant comment. Linton owners are hard-of-hearing? Silly..
Okay so Erin's Audio Corner reviewed these he does the most detailed measurements of anyone. His measurements don't show any of the issues yours did and neither did Stereophiles? Subjectively and objectively these speakers do great with reviewers and customers? But somehow with you these speakers are measuring so bad that's they need upgrades that cost 50% of the total original cost of the speakers? Something doesn't feel right here 🤔
Danny probably measure them without the grills. Grills have wave guide so they are essential for good response. Not trying to defend him. Just my thought. Erin is the way to go for sure.
So I think Danny measures between the tweeter and the mid-range, and Erin measures at tweeter level, hence different results. Erin's -10º vertical is a better match to Danny's on-axis. Which is correct? I guess it depends on the height of your stands and the listening position.
Also, GR-Research expensive replacement parts are not just about improving the frequency response. There are other elements to sound quality that do not show up in graphs.
His modus operandi is to sell his oils..... haven’t watched too many of his videos(3-4), just comes across to me as someone dodgy and dishonest. (No evidence, just gut feelings from observing his mannerisms etc.... and I could be wrong).
@@franciscocunhaetavora9132 Erin measures with a Klippel and Danny measures at tweeter level. You are mistaken on both accounts.
@@franciscocunhaetavora9132You didn’t listen to Danny. You made up all this? He said that he measured at tweeter level. He uses an industrial standard for speaker measurement and Erin got a Kipple machine. Gives almost same result but Erin’s dig deeper. He changed the frequency response to the better, if you looked and listened. Changed the balance between the speakers. If you swap all the parts on a crossover to better parts, but with exactly same values, it will measure the same. Understand that! BUT the sound quality goes up several steps. If you haven’t experienced this yourself, then your are in for a treat when you do it yourself. If you haven’t experienced it yourself and don’t know the difference, then don’t make sour comments. Better parts makes it sound better. Same on your car, better tires gives you a better ride, handling, endurance and grip. Remember, these speakers was build to a nice, friendly market price point.
People who love the Wharfedale sound, will like the Lintons. I agree, the company could have invested a little more on the crossover components and drivers, and I believe that the more improved Lintons can sell well even at $2500. But even without the upgrades, I believe the Lintons as they are now, will attract a lot of audiophiles like me. I started many years ago with my first Wharfedales, the Diamond 5 and moved on to other Diamonds powered now by a tube integrated amplifier with EL 34's. Warm, smooth and beautiful music. I visited a friend's home the other night to listen to his $278,000 Focal speakers in his listening room, and a pair of $20,000. M40 Harbeths in his living room. I liked the Harbeths and found the Focals overwhelming even threatening but still impressive. Happy to get back home and listen comfortably to my stereo system which I bought brand new 8 years ago for around $1,400. Marantz cd, Cayin EL34 integrated tube amp, Diamond 10.4 floorstanders in my bedroom. Sublime contentment.
That is great!!!! More expensive is not always better!!! I have the Lintons and like them the best.....and my other speakers are more expensive!!
Exactly. Peter Corneau sad in the interview himself, that the final crossover design was version 11. He was chasing particular warm, classic tonality and wasn't content until he reached it. This is also one of the reasons the rest of my gear (multiple amps and CD players) all almost predominantly Yamaha, which is another hifi company that follows that specific idiom - 'sound first, technology second'.
Danny is in business to bad mouth most other speaker makers so he can sale his kits. Watch Audio Science review and you'll see he's mostly B.S.
I worked in the audio industry for over two decades. I have read or viewed well over 1000 reviews since the late 90's. I remember reading many professional reviewers' comments that they had run the industry lab testing on a product and the labs looked great. They couldn't wait to set the test product up in their listening room only to be disappointed in their listening tests. I've never read a review where someone said the lab results were so darned good, that they didn't bother to listen. Specs don't always tell the whole story. Maybe someday we can just listen to a good sounding speaker and enjoy it.
If you just want to listen to a good sounding speaker and enjoy it then I have you covered.
My Linton's don't need correcting, they sound freaking amazing.
Ditto!
@@StrangerInParadise58 Until you hear speakers that truly don't need correcting. It's like driving a VW bug, not knowing about Lexus. The bug seems fine. Then one day you drive a Lexus. Glad you love em.
@@daleboylen6427 Thanks for your perspective. I completely understand it, but I’ve come to adopt and appreciate a different perspective. Fortunately, I have heard & owned the kind of speakers of which you speak. But I prefer the Lintons. One of the cardinal realities of audio and human hearing is the relative nature of personal audio preferences and nirvana. When people forget or overlook this reality, they often get befuddled by what puts a smile on another person’s face. But this is their problem, not that of the person with the smile. In other words, some people prefer a Volkswagen Bug over a Lexus any day. 😊
I am sure you are more than aware of this reality, but it plays central to these types of discussions and is often overlooked or forgotten. This is true not just in the realm of audio, but in almost every other area of life as well. Just keeping it real. Thanks again - I appreciate it.
these were measured extensively. They don't need correcting.
😂
$1,400 with the amazing stands. The cabinet is three layers, MDO and chip board + the Wood veneer is beautiful. Set-up: the tweeters go to the insde, so there is a definite R/L speaker. I would love to have a pair. Love my Wharffie Evo 4.3 and 4.2. Hands off my Wharffie's geek!
where are you seeing that price? I see them for $1800 with stands in most places.
Well if the cabinet is MDO, we're sorry about this, there must have been a mistake in our production chain. One can always try to sell them back arguing it's real walnut, so you can quaduple the price. And that would be a nice deal.
Well Viv...they are real oak veneer but rather than the solid MDO of other manufacturers the walls are three layers with chip board at the inside layer, with purpose. This is the only neg review about these speakers. Excellent for the price.n before I'd f around adding $800 worth of aftermarket to these I'd just purchase the Wharfedale Evo 4.4, no brainer.
@@hmrowland6114 yeah this guys entire business is built around the typical audiophile FOMO. Once you learn to stop measuring and just start listening your life as an audiophile improves vastly. You invest more time enjoying music and way less obsessing about your next incremental tweak.
@@CliffForster Can we get an Amen, brother? You are so right.
Initial measurements graph is the one most would prefer as sounds more pleasing to majority of music lovers and is designed as such with purpose. It should sound warm and not detailed as with new parts.
Sound signature is suppose to recreate vintage sound that goes along with the looks.
Not all speakers are to be upgraded!
Well said !
The Lintons are supposed to be listened with the grilles on.
I preferred the Sonus Faber Lumina III to the Lintons, but the Lintons are awesome speakers.
I am using a MiniDSP in conjunction with the Wharfedale Linton. I believe this is the best way to EQ the speakers to your meet your listening preference. Much cheaper without opening up the speakers. The main disadvantage is I could never achieve the increased sensitivity compare to the crossover upgrade. Then again, at the original 88 to 89 sensitivity, this is already quite good to begin with.
85,1dB/2,8v meassured. Which is very good real value.
You reviewed the Wharfdale Linton and you found it had a "choppy" frequency response, and you revealed a curve you captured with your equipment of the Linton on loan to your shop that was in fact choppy, as you say. Stereophile magazine has reviewed a Wharfdale Linton pair that were decidedly not choppy, and the graph from their equipment demonstrated a frequency response free from choppiness. Why would Stereophile hide the choppiness? They don't sell expensive upgrades to Wharfdale Lintons and many other commercial products as you do. They don't stand to gain from frequency response that does not in fact exist.
Then you accused Wharfdale of using "cheesy" parts in their crossovers. You discussed the various kinds of parts you prefer to see in such crossovers, but you neglected to discuss the vast increase in price. I'm quite sure that the price of the Wharfdale Lintons was a major factor in their popularity. The same purchaser probably wouldn't buy the Lintons at the price you would make them with your "non-cheesy" parts.
An example of a "cheesy" part as described by you is a 4.7 microfarad non-polarized electrolytic capacitor that can be purchased from a parts supplier for sixty-seven cents. That is the kind of part most often used by most speaker manufacturers.
An example of the kind of part you would rather use is a film capacitor, and most speaker builders would not use such a part in that location. Why? A 4.7 microfarad film capacitor will cost you eighty-six dollars from the same parts supplier. Imagine using six or eight such capacitors. That is a fantastic price increase that does not make a change in sound quality that most people can hear. You would be hard-pressed to demonstrate the increase in sound quality between the "cheesy" capacitor and the eighty-six dollar capacitor. You'd be hard-pressed to measure the difference between the two parts. I can imagine why you might neglect to mention this price difference. In fact the sixty-seven cent part is not cheesy at all. You would be hard-pressed to hear the difference, and your customer would probably choose the "cheesy" part if he was informed about the price difference.
Also, there is no single response graph that encapsulates what the speaker will end up sounding like. Speakers have different curves at every angle and since we are going to hear multiple arrivals from the listening position (unless we listen in an anechoic chamber) manufacturers often have to sacrifice a perfectly flat on-axis response to achieve a flatter room response. This also means not all rooms are suitable for a given speaker. Peter Comeau is a very experienced engineer and I have a hard time believing these speakers did not meet his design criteria.
First of all International Audio Group owns Wharfedale, Quad, Mission, Luxman, Castle Acoustics, and Tag McLaren. How much advertising, kickbacks and industry junkets do you think those brands provide stereophile and their reps? Secondly, the parts these mid-fi Lintons are made with are on par with $600 polks. Ok sure that's common, but they're just low grade parts no matter how you rationalize it.
Now I'm not saying an upgrade makes sense here. I mean why spend that money on making a midfi speaker a bit better when you could just buy better speakers? But you barging in here with your bad logic and unfounded assertions sounds like you have an agenda.
Boom.
I'm sorry but that's not true, I've done a few blind tests to compare the caps. I even asked people who have nothing with audio. They all picked the expensive caps out... I tried to fool them and they still picked them out. It was quite a bummer for me cos from that point I needed to spent more money for my self build, and every single time when I design a crossover it's quite confrontating. ( my apologies for the bad grammar, I'm dutch🙈)
Interesting how you are wrong on every count.
Sir, I'm an old lover of Hi Fidelity from back in the 70's.. I am now diving back into HiFi .. I never was able to own any HiFi components of real value before, so I'm starting from scratch. so after listing and watching your videos and learning about the true engineering, it makes me want to take apart the components I already have just to see what's inside. I enjoy your videos it helps me to carefully select my future purchases... I'm at a budget level of $2k maybe $3k for any speakers or amps. Thanks for your educational videos it's helping me tremendously!
Love my Lintons as-is from the factory.
I love my Lintons and I have no problem with them designing to a price point. It is to be expected. I would much rather them leave room for improvement in the crossover than anywhere else. Besides, for the price, this speaker has proven to be a winner by many peoples ears. Ive planned to replace a few parts in the crossover but im a tad hesitant to change the design completely. I'll be looking forward to know how people respond to Danny's re-design.
If you have been in a mastering studio, you know that you absolutely don't want that "measurement perfection" in your leaving room ;) . The room correction is the first thing to do before any cross over tweeking or binding post replacement because frequency ring and bad reverberation is way more annoying than " cheesy parts " if you own those wonderful speakers.
All very good points.
Apart from the drivers, isn't the crossover the next most important component? I think the speaker manufacturers spend more effort / money on the cabinets than the crossovers, but the cabinets have less of and effect on the sound quality than the crossover. Surely a well braced plain MDF box is all you need but most people want their speakers to look good.
This is why the DIY route gives you far more bang for your buck. Spend 90% on quality components and make the box as fancy as you want. You can start with a plain box and upgrade to some fancy veneer later on when funds allow.
@@miheadhurts Yes the crossover is important but despite the 'cheesy' parts inside, I still have respect for the product Wharfedale made. Besides, the narrative I've heard before Danny's video is that this speaker's performance punches above it's price point. I've seen nothing but good reviews. There are plenty of speakers with 'cheesy' parts that sound fantastic. If you want more then you will spend more.
@@P194-s3i no doubt they sound great but the parts might cost Wharfedale $300-$400. If you spend the same amount on the XLS Encore then you are likely to have a better speaker in the Encore. The Hi Fi manufacturers cannot compete with the the GR Research business model. Wharfedale get the speaker made in China, pay a decent amount for the packaging, ship to the US, pay import duty, send to distributors, send to the store and add tax then sell to the consumer. DIY isn't for everyone, but for those who are handy, it's the best way to build an awesome speaker for the least amount of cash. I'm weighing up with going with the pimped out Encores or Lii Audio Betsy open baffles. The Encores would suit my room better.
OK, so I don't own these, but for some reason I want to defend them.. I would like speakers with somewhat flat response, because that's a good starting point, and I have a treated room that I will treat more, and I use my speakers to mix records. So, that's one use case. Another, more typical use case is that you buy speakers and put them in your untreated living room and those speakers will either compliment the room acoustics or not. Maybe your room is large and light on bass - these might sound full where other speakers might sound thin. On the other hand, maybe your room has thick carpets so it's boxy and dark - you might want a speaker that measures bright and has a big dip at 800 hz. Beyond that, there is taste. So if you own these, and like them, it's very possible that things lined up for you. I say all of this because I have speakers that measure very flat in my mix room that are awesome for that, and I also have vintage speakers in my living room that I know there is no way they measure anywhere near flat, and they kick butt in that room by looking and sounding fun!
Same here! But if I was forced to choose between my Focal (Twin be) and the Linton, I'll choose the Linton :). The imaging is far better on the focal however...
Couldn’t agree more. Frequency response and other characteristics of speakers are like how you prefer your food to be seasoned. Some like some spice, others like some zest. Heck some people even enjoy pineapple on their pizza. The obsession with perfectly flat frequency response - not sure I get it.
Pineapple? pizza? That's illegal where I live.
Well, to a certain point, of course, but isn't it why EQ was put in use to begin with. -To EQUALize -To flatten the response? New speakers might not even have crossovers anymore, now more and more come with in-built amps with DSP. That's progress and I very much look forward to mass-production from more manufacturers.
@@BIGGIEsmalls13 Pineapple, which is sweet, paired with a salty meat, such as ham or Canadian bacon, paired with a spicy sauce, maybe with sun-ripened tomatoes, can balance the variety of flavors very nicely. Mixing sweet with spicy is a cliché in Sichuan cuisine.
Pineapple isn't one of my favorite pizza toppings, but, if there's a fresh pineapple and Canadian bacon pizza on a buffet, I'll grab a slice or two.
I don't know... I own these as well, I love the warmth and tonality of these, highs could be a little cleaner and center imaging could be more spot on, but what I found after testing with various equipment and placement they do have a sound that keeps you engaged. "Even better with the right equipment" they are smooth and easy on the ears. I would be tempted to hear the difference however if you, yourself didn't or couldn't do a A/B comparison before and after the changes I would be skeptical to purchase at $731 without real world listening. I would be afraid it would change the tonality that makes these so good. I get the fact that these use cheap parts on the crossover but that has everything to do with price/performance and target audience they were going for. Were not talking Wilson Audio, Joseph Audio here with there spare no expense crossover/cabinet designs. The designer himself "Peter Comeau" spends hours/months of listening and tweaking before releasing his designs which the Linton's are one of those designs. You managed to do it in what 2 -3 weeks with no listening, based on graphs? I'm not trying to bash you and I am certainly not questioning your technical ability because you do excellent work but you should offer a trial or partial money back for at least the crossover it's self if the sound isn't up to par... Or give a few out to Linton owners as a real world test! Watch Peter the Linton's designer here - th-cam.com/video/F1WYNCZqOKY/w-d-xo.html
The upgrade isn't going to loose or give up anything that they had. It is going to take every aspect to another level (or two or three levels). And I have spent a carriers worth of time comparing the sonic signature of these parts. So I know exactly what the before and after effects are going to be.
I have never had anyone say the smearing of those cheesy parts sure sounded better than the much cleaner sound of the higher quality parts.
Hi Danny, I'm a fan and long time watcher myself. I've often wondered if you actually listen to the speakers in stereo with proper placement before redesigning crossovers? Most of the time I get the impression you only have one speaker on hand and go purely off of measurements.
These Lintons, for example, are voiced to sit on the included stands. Did you have the stands to listen to them?
@@deeplyclosetedindividual Listening to a poorly designed speaker or a speaker full of budget level parts is not useful in correcting what is wrong with them. I can hear the problems and quickly note the sound of a speaker playing through a wet blanket, but in the end I need to take the measurements to see the issues and get an idea of what will be needed to fix them.
The upgrade in parts quality has more to do with how they sound in this case. The redesign just slightly rebalanced them to a more accurate level. No Rez takes care of the cabinet resonance issues of a large unbraced box, and new wiring and tube connectors improve clarity as well.
I'm exactly in the same position! There is something « magic » about those speakers in my point of view. A reviewer said: With those, you focus on the music performance not the sound of the speaker or technicality. And indeed they are more forgiving for poor or old recording but when you listen to something really well recorded, they shine...
@@deeplyclosetedindividual Fried, if you've watched enough of Danny's videos you'll find that he's a knowledgeable designer with a one track mind. There can only be one way for speakers to measure. One quality level for crossover parts, well, unless those parts are in his base level crossovers then they're okay. He loves to use the term "fix" when nothing is actually broken. It's merely that a speaker doesn't measure the way he wants it to measure. If someone thinks they like the same sort of sound Danny likes then they should just buy his kits rather than buying a speaker and sending it in to him in order to try and change it into something they like.
The Lintons do have a smoky, bass heavy sound and a lot of people like that. Different strokes for different folks except in GR land.
My one critique: Danny assumes we all want flat frequency response or close to it. That's so misguided.
Omg, speaker designers voice speakers how they want to for a reason. Some speakers are going for prominent vocals. Some are going for added bass. Some are going for low listening fatigue, etc. Some try to balance all three.
Danny, please consider making crossover improvements which don't target frequency response too much.
Please target better phase integration, directivity improvements, and distortion improvements/decay results.
Consider not fussing about boosted areas and specific dips. They're often intended. Hint: most people enjoy more bass, better speech clarity (boosting a few regions humans don't hear well) and a way of reducing listening fatigue (cutting frequencies which resonate in the human ear canal). The revised ANSI Fletcher Munson curves provide the clues.
i agree...all videos are about make them ( speakers) "flat"., almost stripping "personality" from the product to achieve uniformity...I thought he (Danny) needs to work for the government...impose the control over crowds- don't be too loud, don't be too quiet, don't look like that, etc.
A more accurate frequency response is minor compared to what I focus on. Most of the corrections or real improvements that I make can be seen in a the spectral decay. That is where the most audible problems and real distortions can be seen. I also look at overall responses in the vertical and horizontal off axis. Strong improvements are also made from the quality of parts used along with removing poor connections and insertion losses of cheesy binding posts and wire. Further improvements are made by controlling cabinet wall resonances. These are more comprehensive and complete upgrades.
@@dannyrichie9743 ok, thanks for the clarification. And keep producing great content, I really do enjoy it.
@Danny Richie: Mic Drop! 😄
@@oleplanthafer7034 how was it a mic drop? Hint: it wasn't.
He thinks he doesn't change the frequency response all that much, while I think he tends to flatten things out a bit too much while not focusing on other criteria I find more important.
It is true that he often smooths the impedance results which does make a speaker easier to drive.
Our disagreement is a matter of scale. It's nice to hear that the frequency response in his mind isn't always the most important improvement he makes.
Phase, distortion, decay, and impedance are in my mind a better area to focus on than using most of the time on these upgrade videos talking about frequency response.
What puzzles me is the supposed reverence to the original Linton and Denton. I remember the 70s incarnations of these were cheap and not very good sounding speakers. Dull and boxy. They went through a number of iterations but none I recall were reviewed that well. The name certainly had a long production run though.
"The name certainly had a long production run though." Usually an indication that SOMEBODY liked them.
@@careylymanjones or that they had a good marketing department and idiots didnt know how much they sucked.
@@careylymanjones Or that Sears bought up a gazillion units and sold them cheap to the masses.
they are awesome without any upgrade.
Hardly....
How could a speaker get, what seems to be, unanimous rave reviews across the board and have such a choppy response? Does that mean frequency response is somehow irrelevant? If there are negative--even mildly negative-- reviews out there, I haven't seen them. One of the most jaw dropping statements made about this speaker came from Erin's Audio Corner in his recently released video "My Top Five Speakers at ANY COST". He picked the Lintons in this group! -- And he owns a Klippel Near Field Acoustic Scanning System--as far as I know, the most powerful (and expensive) speaker measurement system on the planet.
I can understand that these products use cheaper parts to fit into a certain price category, but I can't understand why these large companies, with very large budgets to hire top design engineers, would intentionally put out a poorly designed system. Where am I figuring wrong?
Some of those reviewers are really using budget level or mid fi level systems in rooms that are not well treated or set up well. So the bar isn't set very high.
ERINS AUDIO CORNER measured these, using a Far more accurate measurement system, and got a quite flat response with none of the uneven response?? He was not selling anything, nor had anything to gain from his review and measurements. Danny did you possibly do something wrong here, as your measurements are not matching up to a few very well respected set of measurements?
Our measuring system is also extremely accurate and considered reference level. Our measurements also match perfectly others in the industry. It is much more likely that there is a variance in production models that they send out.
I have finally finished installing the Danny designed upgrades to one of my two Lintons. I took the opportunity to A/B listen test the unmodified and Danny upgraded version in mono. Okay - so they are certainly not the same speakers. To be clear, the originals did not have the sound signature I enjoy (too laid back, midrange clarity was less than what I like, etc), thus why I went the upgrade path. The Danny designed version sounds much more upfront (not in your face) and the midrange clarity is astounding and the bass remains tight with (maybe) more extension. To my ears, the changes made by Danny in the frequency response are responsible for many of the positive (to me) changes. However, this upgrade has convinced me of the value of the parts quality! Listening over and over again to the same song on both speakers (alternating) was enough to 'sell' me. The major differences were in the treble and midrange - listening to Lumineers "Dead Sea", I could hear the separation of instruments, voices, and notes on individual instruments. Further, the lead singers voice can sometimes be a bit fatiguing over the unmodified Lintons, but this was gone with the modified one. Technical details - I used all the supplied upgrade parts except the tube connectors and no rez. I did not use the tube connectors because I did not wish to modify the cabinet. I did not use no Rez b/c the box is separated by the midrange tube (cabinet within cabinet) and the new crossover parts take up a lot of space, so I felt there was insufficient space left. So, instead I used roof membrane (rubberized asphalt adhesive backed by layer of high density cross laminated polyethylene) throughout the cabinet and then installed the crossover components on top. Other equipment: Benchmark pre-amp and dac, Schitt Aegir mono amp.
Hey Robert, did you get the second one done? Do you think you got value for money? I am hesitating it’s a lot of cash!
@@willbrown8433 It is pricey, but it took the speakers from not my taste to ones that I thoroughly enjoy. If I had not updated them, they would be back in a box or I would have sold them. There isn't really any comparison between the unmodified (fine) and the modified (really good). I have written more about this on the one of the other audio forms. Summary - for me it was very much worth it. The midrange is now incredible clear and articulate; i can hear details that were not present before. Hope that helps.
Awesome post. Finally someone speaking the truth. Lintons are horrible for treble and midrange, bass is awesome. It's unfortunate because they just sound dull, lack clarity and vocals are just bad. I'm considering spending money on upgrades, or just selling them. You play Hans Zimmer Curse of Black Pearl or Medley and you realize you miss 1/3 of the instruments. Sad experience.
Congrats, u ruined ur Lintons.
Thanks for posting the feedback on this one, but you are still missing some of the performance offered by the upgrade. The No Rez will do a much better job of controlling the cabinet resonances and it is air volume neutral while the stuff that you used actually takes up air space. The reason the No Rez is air space neutral is that the added foam layer slows down the airflow in the box making the box act as if it is larger. So it give you deep and well controlled bass without shifting the tuning frequency to a higher range.
The tube connectors will also improve clarity quite a bit and across the board to each end of it range. They are definitely worth the effort.
I replaced my $8k Proac speakers with the LIntons and love them. They are $1,499. including the nice steel stands and they sound great to me and should never be used with the grills off. I clicked the link but it's dead, so I assume no one is interested in buy the "upgrade".
Thanks for letting us know the link is broken. We'll fix that shortly. Actually, quite a few people have been interested in this one. We have sold a lot of them, and if you think they sound great now, you will be amazed at how much better they can sound.
2:08 Yeah the manufacturer recommends using the grills for sure. Wharfedale is known for this.
12:06 Bless you for correcting yourself and using the adverb. Made my day.
Nice upgrade to the design. I'm not sure I agree that all wide baffle speakers image poorly though compared to narrow baffle speakers. It depends on how well they are designed. Narrow baffles do inherently image better but you typically have the baffle step problems with the sharp dip in the bass response which is almost impossible to remove effectively with filters. Not so much of an issue with wide baffle speakers which have made a bit of a comeback recently.Take the JBL L100 Classic for example which images superbly well for a chunky speaker.
Bingo!!!
I really did not find them bad relative to price , yes it is colored , yes does not image that wide , but really has something about the sound that is correct and keeps coming back.
Relative on the bass , i liked it , powerful but supple
If it was me , I would put better parts on it , something that would keep that vintage kind of balance ( Jantzen alumni series capacitors for example , Duelund bypass caps, air core inductors yes, ) and would change the intern cable for Duelund tinned copper cable or old western electric one.
The NEW Wharfedale Dovedale speakers actually have TWO PC Boards isolated from each other for their crossover network. One for the bass and the other for the mid/treble! Look for some of the TH-cam videos of Peter Comeau from Wharfedale talking about crossover designs. His knowledge of them FAR EXCEED's Dannys knowledge.
If loading a speaker up with the cheapest and cheesiest parts money can buy makes a guy appear smart then I am fighting a loosing battle.
@@dannyrichie9743 Did you even bother to watch the video? I didn't think so. While I respect your knowledge and channel, what you say is not the LAST WORD in Speaker and crossover design!
@@dontcare563 Well, I know one thing for sure. Whoever is designing crossovers for Wharfedale certainly is not the guy to be praising. We just had the Wharfedale Denton in for upgrades. Man, that thing was a mess.
@@dannyrichie9743 I'm specifically talking about the new Dovedale.
@@dontcare563 Go ahead and find some photo's of the crossover.
I've had mine for a month now running a LS3 pre and B&K mono amps and I get a great soundstage on these in my room and love the sound. If the upgrade improves the sound that would be even more amazing.
Let us know if you do it.
I love watching Danny's name & shame videos but it doesn't always have to be all or nothing either, recently bought a pair of Dali Oberon 5's which review very well for their pricepoint, found them to have a boomy, boxy type sound which I hate, had a sheet of wool type wadding from a previous purchase laying around, so just filled some gaps in the cabinet with it, hey presto, now love my speakers, upgrade cost zero 🙂
I own these and would never change the original design of any internal parts. The sound is beautiful and especially for the price, very hard to beat this performance and price point together in one speaker and its a three way....just a gorgeous sounding speaker. Can't wait for the dovetail's.
When you get tired of mediocrity let me know. Our upgrade takes them up several levels.
@@dannyrichie9743 would be great if you offered drop in PCB/crossover. That way a noob doesn't have to disassemble existing crossover and fit parts.
@@johnsmith-i5j7i To make it worth making the circuit boards I'd have to have 500 or 1000 of them made.
They're supposed to have that warmed up bass region, makes them sound rich and warm at low to medium volume levels. I wonder how incredible you could have made it with some tweaks that left the woofer alone.
In most applications the bottom end is far from warm. That type of balance will be boomy in most rooms.
wharfedales from denton 80th, 85th, and linton need a good amount of time to break in and paired with a lively amp
That's why I have started to like the narrow cabinets, and smaller drivers. With a sub I think you get better sound.
That kind of setup would probably sound better than any Tower speakers for the same price. If you can get the sub integrated well. Or even two subs!
I've been hoping someone would eventually send these in.
Sounds like they should have gone to the dump.. for the money..
The Lintons sound good in room. Especially lived-in rooms with some clutter and padding about it. They work great in the near field as well. You can already buy/build $2000 worth of flatter measuring speakers if that's what you want, without trying to second-guess this design's so-called faults.
There is no shortage of people complaining about, or trying to 'warm' up flatter measuring speakers and many end up on the auction block regardless. Most people that are into smooth and low distortion music will like these. I could keep these as main speakers from here on out.
Remember those giant Fisher stereo systems? I think you could get them at places like Sear's or JC Penney's. The speakers were probably close to 5 feet tall, & had 15" woofers.
I have a pair of Mirage here that are four feet tall and sound very good. They are music they have a driver on both sides..bi polar I think it's called.
I do remember them. They had half-inch thick unbraced cabinets and the cheapest drivers and one-cap crossovers you could buy. 100% for looks.
someone sent me a comment saying "So many amazing mixes have been done using these speakers, how do I explain that"?
Many MORE mixes have been done on Yamaha NS10's than on Lintons. Few would ever refer to NS10's as "amazing speakers"
Many mixes are done on Genelec speakers with very high order crossovers.
Many mixes were done on old JBL 4311's.
The way I explain that is simple: great engineers. Not great speakers.
Example, I took a pair of speakers a physicist friend designed to a studio on Maui where Willie Nelson has recorded. The guy was using Genelec's.
I left them with him over the weekend.
When I returned to pick them up, he said they dropped his jaw and he was unprepared for the sound that came out of them and how DEEPLY he could hear into his mixes.
A mastering engineer at Sony felt the same way. My friends speakers cut his mastering time in half, he said.
You can mix on ANY speaker. I'm unaware of any studios using Linton's as mixing monitors, but stranger things have happened.
As a recording engineer I ask ONE THING of monitors: DON'T SCREW UP THE WAVEFORM.
All very true. Many people that mix or master never really hear what is in the recording. We used to have a local recording studio come by ever few days to listen to something they mixed. Then they would go remix and come back again. I finally sold him a pair of mini monitors to mix with so that he could hear what he was listening for. I don't think he ever used his Mackies again.
Growing up in the 70's many British speakers had a laid-back but relaxing sound which had its followers. Their construction quality was ok and if they weren't overdriven they lasted long enough to be handed-down to someone else. Now China produces many "British" loudspeakers to an impeccable fit and finish with veneer & colour options to match one's decor. The question is, do these sound better than the originals and is there some preserved gold-standard to which we can compare?
I am listening to mine right now. After 100 hours of use, I can say that I 'like' them. I can see their appeal for some types of music and the aesthetics of the the vintage frame and stands is a winner for me. But I don't 'love' them and have been itching to mod them. There are noticible flaws that are not related to room acoustics or placement. It's the speakers! First: they are not 'bass heavy', they are bass sloppy. There seems to be constant struggle between the bass driver and the bass from the rear ports. Add in that hollow cabinet, and it just sounds 'wrong'. It's impossible to just ignore it, as the bass (I don't even want to call it frequency) changes with each step you take. I even thought of adding a pair of Kef KC-62 subs just to conceal the issue. But still; overall, there is something I really 'like' about the overall sound. I'm sure the prominent mid section plays a key role. And I do like a warmer vintage throwback sound. But the tweeter - well? The tweeter sounded terrible and gradually did become tolerable. I can't pin down what the issue is, but many others have pointed toward "grainy". I'm willing to bet that they really cheaped out on crossover parts where they were needed for the tweeter. Maybe there was a stylistic choice to choke the tweeter so that it didn't interfere with the desired 'vintage' sound. Maybe they limited the tweeter so as not to outshine their higher tier speakers. But it had to be 'choice' to let this speaker go to market with such a glaring flaw.
Aside: I have a pet pigeon who I adopted from the Humane Society with rickets, malformed bones, multiple broken bones, and just overall bad health. I gave that pigeon all the love and care and good nourishment I can. Today, he is a strong little cocky beautiful playful happy pigeon. I think these speakers have so much to offer once they're given what they need. I'm really glad that Danny and others have been able to show that there is hope for correcting the failings of this speaker. I believe there really is something special about these speakers that deserves effort to nurture them to the next level.
Full measurements here. They are flat flat, without any crossover changes: th-cam.com/video/CaxknyOrf3I/w-d-xo.html
Keep in mind that we measured a production model and not a pair sent out for review. So there may be quite a bit of variance between units. Also, this upgrade is not just about the frequency response. The crossover parts were super cheap and cheesy. The cabinets resonated badly. The wiring was poor. The connectors were a bottleneck, etc. We made huge improvements to these in multiple areas.
I love this style of speaker. I've repaired and upgraded many pairs of Ditton 44s and just love that 70s style. Yes they have issues with having such a big front baffle and that trim round the face doesn't help but they are beautiful. Like you Danny I do wish manufacturers would put better parts in their crossovers.
Their not there.
I did a direct comparison of these with my dealer, using my amp, with the Triangle 40th Anniversary Comètes. I bought the Comètes. I had thought the Lintons would be quite good, but was quite disappointed. The sounded dull, slow and woolly. The cost of the upgrade kit puts them roughly in the same price category of the Comètes, maybe even higher.
Congrats on the Cometes. I think Triangle speakers are superb, I have the Titus EZ and they are the best small speaker I've heard under £1000: agile, punchy, sweet, capable of big dynamic sweeps but also great delicacy. I'm sure the Cometes would be very special, particularly the anniversary edition.
@Ruben Ramero It seems to drive many other speakers very well.
I've chosen simpler way. First i got rid of connectors and soldered wires to posts on drivers. Then I've gradually changed most of the Lintons crossover components for better ones with the exception of adding one bypass cap on C1 position. Pathaudio and Mundorf resistors, Jantzen Silver cap on C1 (slightly too extended heights but much more details, Miflex bypass cap helps), Jantzen Superior and Standard and Miflex KPCU capacitors. All together cost half of what Danny did. Lintons became much cleaner in midrange and bass, they are faster, breathe easier, are more dynamic and image better due to better tolerances of the components. What is most important, they retain most of their character. Haven't done any measurements but I can tell they sound closer to what I would like to hear, being a classical musician, conductor and an opera singer.
One interesting thing I've noticed the other day when doing mastering with my not quite studio reference AKG K242HD headphones, that I like a lot for their lushness and pleasant midrange, is that they sound almost exactly the same as Lintons.
Danny, which reasonably cheap 15uF cap would you suggest on C3 high pass positition if I would like to get more realistic timber mostly on cymbals and better attack, transient response? Does changing this cap even matter all that much? I wouldn't risk with another Jantzen as they all seem a bit to smooth, silky with slight lack of texture. Though they are much much better than those original Chinese caps.
@@miharoskar I don't have the original crossover here anymore.
@@dannyrichie9743 sorry, C3 cap is second capacitor in high pass signal path. Comes after inductor. I guess this cap works as additional trimming of frequency drop curvature? It's hard to find good info about this specific design on internet.
@@miharoskar If it is a second cap in the tweeter circuit then it needs to be the same type of cap as the first one in the tweeter circuit.
@@dannyrichie9743 thank you
I think these were never meant to have flat frequency curve. More like warm sounding with vintage look. What I have heard Wharfedale Evo-series is more "hifi speaker" sounding with flatter frequency curve. Wharfedale EVO 4.2 is fantastic in my opinion. I greatly appreciate work what Danny has done to it. Looking at the improved frequency curve it looks more something what I would like.
Would be great to see an upgrade to the EVO 4.2.
Have owned them paired together with an Yamaha A-S2100 amplifier.
Think they would be even better after an upgrade with better components.
I have these since a few months. aside from measurements (which mean exactly that, nothing), I can safely say that these speakers are the first pair I have owned (and i'm 42 now, so i had quite a few) that actually sing, and make music. They have an uncanny way of getting me into the music, like you are being envelopped by a blanket of music. If you have special memories about a song, trust me, thesse will take you right back to that moment. They draw out emotion like no other (and that is what music is). These werent made to be measured, they were made to be listened to. A few hours with these will make that abundantly clear. in every aspect. 10/10 , would buy again.
It is not just about the measurements. They had a lot of other issues, not least of which was the crossovers were garbage. If you like them in stock form then you would really love them after the upgrade. It takes them to a whole new level.
@@dannyrichie9743 you have clearly not read my post. Why would I want to "upgrade" the crossovers (which alter the sound and signature) when they do for me what I have described? I don't give a rat's a** what's in there. They sound fantastic to me and that's all that counts. A measurement or a good or bad crossover doesn't change anything about how they make me feel when I listen to them - and that is pure bliss.
@@fredspekvet5875 You're happy and that's good, but whether or not improvements in sound quality (in all areas) would not improve your enjoyment or how you feel when listening is pure speculation.
Can’t recommend it stock?! It’s a 1k speaker what were you expecting? 😁 Where would the profit come from if they used more expensive parts? It would be a more expensive better performing product. It’s like saying, this Ford Focus is cheap but it doesn’t drive like an Audi A3 because it’s got cheap parts and they need upgrading to make it acceptable. It’s cheaper for a reason. 🤯
Your analogy is flawed though. Had both cars and the focus drives much better! But get the gist of your post 👍
@@Supashoppa69 😆
That is an issue. I mean if Wharfedale could make a version at say $2500 instead of $1500 that sounds demonstrably better, they really ought to do so. Many people looking for "end game" speakers would jump on them in a heartbeat. Maybe Wharfedale expects them to look upstream at their more expensive offerings I guess, but you sacrifice the nice old school looks and beauty.
I just re-watched The Audiophiliac´s review. His observations match Danny's comments of parts quality and frequency response pretty much 100%. I am stunned!
The Audiophiliac always say to not trust the measurements so much but listen for yourself. That is a very good recommendation. If I recall correctly, he loves the B&W 606... ask Danny about those...
@@guystpierrecomposer jo
I watched it too, and that’s not true! He doesn’t review products he doesn’t like, said so himself.
@@raymoore8435 yeah and it seems to me Danny doesn't provide upgrades to speakers he doesn't like. There are a couple of examples already. A lot of people think that if a speaker can be upgraded then it sucks. That's not how I see it.
Steve's comments on frequency response match Danny's measurements and comments, and Steve's comments on treble quality match Danny's assessment of poor parts quality in the treble crossover circuit.
The original crossover was probably designed to sound like an old fashion box speaker with a house curve. This is the one time I don't see the logic of upgrading. Most people probably bought it knowing what it is. Over priced for what it is in my opinion. I'm glad he had it on the table I thought they were bigger.
Wharfedale fans are going to lose their minds over this. It's supposed to be coloured and the cabinet is supposed to be hollow and resonant.
He’s basically full of shit
You take it too hard. Danny is just not into smearing.
@@raymoore8435 That’s a bold statement.
@@ChicagoRob2 he kind of is in some ways. Not every speaker is supposed to have a perfectly flat frequency response. Some people WANT a bit of resonance or accentuated high end response. Sound is subjective. He must know this.
@@sergeysmelnik The Stereophile frequency response measurement is very similar to Danny’s. I also read several complaints from actual Linton owners of elevated bass, excessive warmth, and rolled off highs.
talking about narrow baffle, that is why i designed my speaker with 106mm baffle width, then a 45 degree angle backward for 40mm.
as narrow as i could get the woofers to fit.
Thank you for the clean, honest review!
honest, or honestly trying to sell something?
These are excellent speakers but great when upgraded. Change to better crossover components(Mundorf and Jatzen, use same values), New binding post, solder all wires directly to the drivers with quality silver and treat all driver membranes with C37 lacquer. And then…you will have a serius high end speaker ($10k-$15k in my opinion compared to others that I own).
I've watched about 20 of these vids and have yet to hear anything describing sound that would make me like or dislike a speaker. Im convinced of absolutely nothing other than knowing I will trust my ears over measurements.
Yep, me too as I found this channel a couple weeks back. No mention of actual listening sessions, just measurements. One would think there would be a before and after music listening test? -Or to the benefit of the channel; it could be just that he is so experienced in both listening and measuring, that he KNOWS how it sounds. Don't know, but I also wonder about the assumingly only focus on measuring.
By now you should have figured out that he is offering upgrades to mass produced speakers for people who already own those speakers and want to make them a little better. He is not doing speaker reveiws. Simple.
@@fredygump5578 Well, problem is that he kinda is reviewing. And while he has a business, there is incentive for him to find something wrong with every speaker, so the sales on upgrade goes well.
That's where the other side of the story comes in; the, maybe blind, listening test, before and after upgrade. Without this, we can't seem to know if it is an objective bit or an subjective plug for more sales..
@@mrpeterfromgodknowswhere Yeah, I guess it is totally outrageous that a company would try to sell you their products and services! And you're probably right--every speaker on the market is designed to absolute perfection, so no improvements can be made to any of them. It's silly to even try, right?
@@fredygump5578 Fredy, you're misinterpreting me a bit, I think.
I'm just pointing out the lack of apparent objectivity, which, if present, would be far more convincing of the product he is selling. This could be done with an a/b listening session by other likeminded hifi "nerds" e.g. in a collab.
Basically every speaker I have seen you review has 'cheesy' parts. Yet many were highly rated. I am doubting how stuff looks on your charts really matters much. But, it's good for your business.
That is kind of bizarre... I own the Linton and I love them. They are colored but not at all with the regular "V shape". The mid are really revealing and I can easily judge subtleties of a mastering on those. After your review of Sony's sscs5 I got them for my 5.1 home setup. From a measurement point of view, the Sony seems "way better" to you. In reality, the Linton are 10 times better with there flaws then the Sony .... And I'm pretty sure the Sony with your modification would not at all compete with the Linton as is (I would be very curious to hear that). This commentary come from a sound engineer working with Focal 5k $ monitor speakers in a tuned room all day long... nevertheless , your channel is very interesting and I guess there is an explanation on that gap between my "in reality impression" versus measurements....
The modified Sony's and a sub would better them in some ways and give them a run for their money in others. They have their strengths in other areas.
@@dannyrichie9743 I can imagine that with a well integrated sub it could improve dramatically (not so much with my "ok" 5.1 regular sub...) In my perception, even the mids of the Linton are way more full and interesting ( for exemple listening to a good recording of Mel Tormé with a big band, the voice is rich and the separation and details of the horns is better and I don't think that's a sub thing....) in classical music the "paper" tone of those mid is very pleasing particularly with strings. I don't enjoy orchestral recording as much on my Focal with beryllium tweeters.... maybe it's just a color that is well suited for some style of music that I like in my living room... the way that the Linton react to transients is interesting two.... the details are there but unlike the Focal, it is never "shouty". it's like a "tube compression" . I wonder how mesurements can show that kind of quality...
@@guystpierrecomposer The measurements don't show quality. They show accuracy.
If you like the Linton in stock form then you'd probably really love them after the upgrade.
The Focal model has a hot top end that is a little hard to take at limes. So it is a completely different sounding speaker. Those are loaded with mostly cheesy parts too and that's a problem with them as well.
@@guystpierrecomposer are you referring to the Focal trio 6 or 11 ? I have the 11 and am very happy with it . It’s very impressive that these Lintons are up there in sound quality ! Thanks for sharing .
N bb bbb iv c.4.
Interestingly, I auditioned the Lintons last week as a possible replacement for my refurbished AR-2ax speakers. I did not like the roughness of the Linton's high frequencies and felt that my old ARs were better in most respects, except for efficiency and sound at low volumes. In the end I passed and will continue searching unless I can find something much better than the ARs
If we all wanted a flat frequency response we'd all have some sort of studio monitor. I listen to studio monitors most of the day at work ( A pair of Adam Audio S3X-V and/or Neumann KH80s with sub) and I don't need that analytical sound when I go home. I need speakers that sound good, feel good. Not speakers that rip apart every mix.
I agree. I have a pair of 80s speakers we use for vinyl and sometimes for a couple of minutes I get lost in time. The crossovers are simple on those Boston Acoustics but I love the sound.
@@sergeysmelnik
I will check it out. I liked GR videos and figured that I bet some speakers could use some new parts but he says you ca not find a good pair of 1500 dollar speakers. The KEF q series are very good and the upgrade from him for those was just something that cleared a little bump. They have some issues like all speakers but for 350 a pair US they are very good. The floor standing q series is good as well.
This is why this speaker is so popular right now -overripe bass is great for classic rock hello Zep II -it also has neato stands that store LP’s as well -a throwback design for sure -
@+❶ ❸３１７１❼３➃❼❹viaWhatsApp prize ?
Every speaker has its own sound. That's why we have different speakers! If all speakers had the same flat response and gain, they'd all sound the same. Don't really get the idea of these videos other than selling these "upgrade" kits.
I'd certainly be interested to see a review of a pair of Quad ESL-57 - and a crossover diagnose and upgrade .... or better still, a stacked pair ....
Me to
It's be great to get before and after sound demos.
I would like to see if Danny could hear any differences after his changes. I mean completely blind where he has no idea Wich is being played.
@Lloyd Stout a TH-cam video is what got me started back into vinyl. I could hear the sound quality difference over my phone without without even being hooked up to a Bluetooth speaker! Some sound quality differences can definitely be heard on TH-cam. Probably not the best medium for comparing products but I have heard it done and could clearly hear differences.
Unfortunately only one speaker was sent in to us for evaluation..
But there are some A/B comparisons of the RP600M Danny did an update for.
But in my experience, there's a lot of auditory information that gets lost in the recording vs in person, even with a bi-neural "head" and TH-cam compounds that by removing all information above 16KHz, where a lot of "air" and spatial cues reside.
That said there are often still a lot of differences you can still hear, despite the imperfect of the recording/uploading process.
@@hoth2112 TH-cam only compresses over 16khz when your select lower quality video, choosing the highest resolution will give you the original frequency range
@@Daminlk that must be a newer feature then as it's not something I've heard of until now.
No photo of the new crossover ???
Would have been nice to have a little detail about the actual sound before and after.
Hmmm, the poster seems to really like LOOKING at the sound of the music; as for me, I'd rather enjoy LISTENING to the music...
I am wondering how much of distortion is added by those "cheesy parts" in comparison to the distortion of speaker drivers themselves.
I wonder what you would think of my old Philips' from 70's.. the baffle is even wider than this one, for sure sounds better with grill on but that's how they were designed
one of the best measuring speaker of all times, damn near perfect, if you touch them you should go straight to the seventh circle. stop being a snake oil schill.
Based on whose measurements? Show me an independent 3rd party measuring them, not Stereophile that reaps lots of ad revenue from IAG who owns many brands, including Wharfedale. I wish someone would send G-R a set of Evo 4.4 speakers for testing and any "upgrades" to see how they compare to the Lintons.
I want them so bad! I want manufacturers to produce more old school type speakers.
No surprises here, with a big hollow-sounding box and spaced drivers.
Shame the measurements don't show the box output.Maybe the box resonances flatten out the total response?
🎶😉🎶
For the price they’re amazing speakers
I have watched many of your videos in order to deepen my understanding of audio reproduction and I appreciate that you take a data-testing approach to your reviews, it overrides the subjective nature of how a speaker sounds. What have learned? High-quality audio reproduction is not cheap and extremely nuanced.
That response to me is killer. Right where "I" want it. That would be awesome with 140 to 165 watts. These and the KLH 5s are awesome.
very AVID 103 reminiscent.
Many speaker designers intentionally make that kind of somewhat sloped (from bottom to top) frequency response and claim that in a regular room it sounds better this way.
That's pretty odd as the biggest problem for most rooms is bass boominess.
Designed to be used with grilles on with tweeters facing inwards. Using the word 'performance' is misleading. Someone in the UK has modded the cross overs and now can't sell them on eBay. Why do you want to biwire, why? These are hifi speakers for music not films using a receiver. It's all just crap. I don't owe them, but I have listened to them on their stands, properly run in with six hifi amps including class AB, G and D. Music is about emotion and pleasure, I am not twelve and consequently graphs don't impress me. Ridiculously out of context blatent sales attempt.
Oh, I am an aerospace electronics engineer of 56 years.
I have them hooked up to my Luxman el84 amp, absolute heaven (25m2 room). Are there better? Certainly. At this price though, they are just fantastic (classical and jazz mostly)
I'm only new to your station but I've watched many of your video's and noticed that regardless of make or price of speakers you seem to find problems with them which is cool. I have two question's the first being is there a speaker on the market you have heard that don't need any kind of tweaking at all
Have you ever worked in a company that manufactures speakers ?
Any speaker can be improved or upgraded. We even offer upgrades to our own models. There are some gems out there that don't need much tweaking. I also have done design work for many other companies. My designs have won just about every industry award there is.
They’re great sounding speakers right out of the box as long as you place them correctly in the room, they give speakers twice the price a run for their money. The construction of the drivers with die cast baskets and Kevlar cones and double skinned cabinet are really good.
They sound great in the right room placement and amplification. I wonder if this guy actually listens to his speakers using.......music.
They'll give any speakers a run for the money, if you're in this for the sake of music listening, that is. Incredible speakers.
Merry Christmas 🎄
Thanks for all the great vids n info 👍🏻
@+❶ ❸３１７１❼３➃❼❹viaWhatsApp I won ?
Peter Comeau designed these speakers to be used with the grills on - all of their heritage-type speakers are designed this way.
I find reviewers, particularly TH-cam reviewers love everything. $85.00/pair (shipped) speakers blow their minds. If those who know about audio, measurements, wiggles in impedance curves, step response tests, etc question them, they are immediately hit with the "Audiophiles are full of crap" mantra.
I'm sure you hear daily "You're just trying to sell me worthless upgrades" They don't understand that parts matter. Design matters. Crossover topology matters.
Truth is 99% of the TH-cam reviewers would fail a simple Q&A asking about what the test data actually means. It's exhausting trying to educate them as they simply don't care to learn.
Strange you say that with so many comments around you saying they own them and there amazing.
@@shiraz1736 Amazing huh? The tests do not back up those statements. Music is NOT recorded with certain frequencies in reverse polarity. (Recording engineer here). Why on earth play it back that way? Then call that product "amazing". Shows a lack of knowledge. It's ok to like it. If you want to buy them go ahead. You'll sell them though once the "Amazing" wears off.
Guys like Steve Gutenberg and Herb Reichert have been listening to the good, the bad, and the ugly for 40+ years. They know good sound well enough that they don't need a frequency response graph to recognize a good or a bad component. And if they "love everything", it's because they aren't bothering to do reviews of the crap, when there's good stuff to review. Why would they waste their time reviewing a piece of crap?
Dale, let me guess, you’ve never even heard these…
@@tedhersh9095 Have I heard the Linton's Nope. Heard, sold, owned, auditioned Henry Kloss speakers going back to his A/R days, sold Advents, Boston's, KLH's. I'm familiar with what his speakers sound like. I can also read and understand measurements. Don't really NEED to hear them. I'm 100% sure my opinion of KLH designs are not going to change by hearing them. It's the CROSSOVER that's the issue, and I can hear ALL high order crossovers.
Ok, pre-disclosure I have not heard these speakers. What I have heard is the sort of predecessors - the Wharfedale Dentons. I use them in my lawyers office with a Technics 1200 turntable. OK it is for looks but I still needed them to sound good. The Dentons were overwhelmingly fabulous. Yes, bass shy but that is it! I am surmising the Lintons can only be better. I am sure an audiophile who has a decent sub can run these and they are good for 10 plus years.
I feel like the Super Lintons are an answer to this.
Lintons sound good to many ears that prefer their bass but for a tiny bit more you can get the KLH Model 5 which is more revealing and the bass is more accurate and faster.
The Model 5 isnt as accurate objectively. Full spins of both speakers on Erin's channel.
I have the Lintons. We replaced a cap and a condenser I think for the high frequencies. That really helped the high frequency smooth out. I'm wondering about your setup. How much work is it to put the new crossover in? Thank you .
Pretty simple.
I am no expert but when I was allowed to listen to the lintons…I liked them more than the Heresys
I’ve been doing series crossover between the woofer and mid for years. It’s my go to in a 3 way with a good mid.
It's all well and good using equipment to measure certain things but we all listen with our ears .
That sounds like it would be a good listen. The retro looks are appealing. Maybe some felt or foam on the baffle would help.
I get the feeling that Wharfedale wanted a slightly vintage sound, a nod to designs they had in the 1960s and 1970s, old Wharfedales seemed a bit warm, mid-forward and a bit soft in the treble. They would have used paper drivers and would probably have been designed around low wattage amplifiers. I guess these would still sound modern, more revealing and give reasonable bass at normal to low volumes. Modern recordings have almost too much treble so the down tilt would have been good at balancing the sound. I don’t know, I haven’t auditioned them. What did they sound like playing music? I am guessing they covered their tracks well by being easy to listen to. I would love to get a review of the standard vs the GR modified version. The new one must be transformed. Please let us know how they compare playing music in a review situation.
Nice results.
Have a pair of the Wharfedale Denton 80th. Same sound signature, boosted bass and recessed highs. The highs also sound grainy at times. Overall like the speakers just wish they were more balanced and refined.
Any plans to analyze the Dentons or the Triangle BR03?
I never plan to upgrade anything. I just work on whatever people send in.
Forget about the measurements. How do these sound?
If your approach is to adapt a set of speakers to measure to the same parameters / benchmark surely it will loose its characteristics and all start to sound the same?
Surely if they sound good, they sound good regardless of the measurements?
IDK, Im starting to trust my ears more and have replaced all of my gear in the process and have become much more content with my setup.
The measurements just show accuracy, not how they sound. The upgrades in components, tube connectors, new wiring, and No Rez have much more to do with how they sound.
Thanks, I did hear them but passed. I like the Legacy HD monitors. More detail and tighter bass.
As for today, April 9 of 2023, Danny have double amount of comments on these speakers then Erin’s Corner. He do fire up people with his upgrades. Some people don’t like changes and especially expensive changes that speaker manufacturers avoid to do in order to meet a price point. Danny reduced the crossover parts. Why? Both Erin and Danny found some issues around 1-2 kHz. Danny gives us an expensive kit, but the parts cost and it does take this speakers to a better level then before. Even reduces the parts then original. Those who have heard theses speakers both before and after, they know.
The PIR of the Lintons are not bad at all, just a very slight dip between 1-3khz. These speakers measure great stock.
A big crossover would rob box volume. Have to bring out a big crossover variant with bigger boxes.
It doesn't take up enough air space to matter.
thank you for your time and info.
We need review of the classic JAMO Concert 8 bookshelf speakers🤔 Would be very curious to hear your thoughts and recommendations on those in the future 🙏
We just did. Keep an eye out for the next video.
I have a pair of Linton's that I purchased in the spring of 2020. I'm an old timer and have these Linton's paired with a my restored Marantz 2270 that I purchased back in college around 1974 or 75. My wife and I do enjoy the Linton's warm sound but I've often wondered if they sounded a bit muddy at times. Our music preferences are varied as I listen to my old Pink Floyd albums along with newer pop as well.
I stumbled across this video while looking at a few other audiophile reviews. I'll admit I'm a bit intrigued by this upgrade and wonder what type of skill level is needed to complete the upgrade. I'm assuming the work is completed from the front by removing the speakers and there is no need to break out the sawzall and open the backside. :) I did a bit of soldering when I was much younger as my father was an electronics repair man and unfortunately I didn't pick up all his skills but do have all his old irons. With this video being relatively new has anyone actually made the upgrade besides Danny and can speak to the merits of the upgrade both in sound quality and ease of doing the upgrade itself?
I've done some upgrades on my lintons. Lay lintons on their back, remove bas driver, unscrew and unplug the board from terminals and you should get enough room to do the work. No need to unsolder other wires. Most of the muddiness comes from the electrolytic 22uf midrange capacitor, you will also gain clarity if you change 6.8uf tweeter capacitor for something better. This will give you most benefits for not much work and money spent. You can also change sandcast resistors on high pass and midrange path with some better wire-wound resistors. Next you could change all of those yellow Spirit capacitors. I could say they make the sound of Lintons with their smooth character but they are just smoothing transients, not letting the details and natural sound come through.