@@aygwm I agree. Buckling springs are the best, hands down, but very loud. I do like Matias switches-both clicky and quiet-but there’s something about Topre. I switch off between the two.
Thanks for this thorough review. I have the 84 version of the Niz and I really like it. It was also surprising for me to notice the significant increase in typing accuracy as well. Some learnings I got while researching this that can be worth sharing here: - The small metal spring inside the switches are solely for the purpose of measuring the position of the dome via the changes in the electronic capacitance changes in the spring. They are actually very lightweight so they do not contribute in any significant way to the feel of the keys. - This design allows them to change/tune the triggering point per key. With Niz one you can change the actuation point by Fn+F8 (toggling between three sensitivities)
I am now a happy owner of a niz plum. This baby feels amazing to type on. Thx for the review, really saved me tons of money since i was considering the topre board
I figured out that what I was looking for all this time are those rubber rings that dampen the pullback clack a.k.a. lobster in distress. Which I hate. Which is not an expensive feature and can make every keyboard premium for a small buck...why does nobody add them!?!?!? 😭
Great video, Betty! I thought it may be worth saying just in case someone else hasn't: those mods are stabilised. That's why the top chassis slider wells are bigger on those keys. The stabilisers are inside the housing; you've got to crack the board open and dismantle it down to the PCB before you spot them. They're heavily lubed on HHKBs. Very impressed by that Niz Plum!
I recently bought the Realforce R2 55g tkl (Non-Silent version), I also have the NIZ x87 (Tkl version of the NIZ shown in this video). Originally the NIZ I purchased had 35g, but I eventually upgraded it to 50g. Here's what I noticed, if you're after tactility, it's not a close contest at all. The R2 55g is a tactile king, meanwhile the NIZ at 35g has a linear feel to it. Even when I upgraded the NIZ dome to 50g it still felt quite light. Also the build quality of the keyboards was night and day. The NIZ is nice, but when I unpacked the R2, it made the NIZ feel like cheap plastic. The thing that surprised me the most between the two is the sound of the R2 was actually a lot quieter than the NIZ (Which is silenced), so don't take the sound test in this video seriously because they have a mic when she's typing. Overall, the NIZ feels nice and I even prefer it over any MX style keyboard, but make no mistake, if you want to experience the Topre feel, NIZ is not going to capture that.
@@souperman6406 That's the problem, a lot of these sound tests put microphones near the keyboard that makes it sound louder. In reality it's a fairly quiet keyboard, and even more quiet if it's silenced. I'd say this video is probably a more accurate representation of what the Realforce R2 non-silenced 55g sounds like: th-cam.com/video/8IuWAUDGXoY/w-d-xo.html
As a niz 82 owner, I absolutely love the feel and functionality. I type a lot and the light niz switches make the typing speed and fatigue much better compared to my other mechanical keyboards. The 82 version has the num lock feature as well (not that I use it very often). One thing that didn't get mentioned in this video is that niz lets you choose the actuation distance of the keys (i.e. how far down a press on the switch should be registered as an input), which is possible because the switch uses capacitors so technically you can pick any actuation distance in between. I use this functionality a lot and make my actuation distance very short if I want to type super fast.
I did not know this, holy fuck that makes Niz 100x more interesting to me than topre. Variable actuation is literally the future of keyboards, and if you can get that nice rubber dome tactile feel with variable actuation, that's pretty huge.
"It looks old". Oh cmon, the vintage look is great. Much better than that RGB gamer thing that most keyboards are into. Sure, it's no match for custom keyboards, but it's still great compared to gamer style
Some people instantly forget the “real” tone reviewers, sadly. Click and retention statistics push content creators towards the high energy tone. I’m not sure what I prefer… and I wouldn’t want someone to feel like they couldn’t make a video based on their mood being “off brand.” I guess it doesn’t matter for me so long as the info is good 🤷🏼♂️
I initially bought a niz plum as a work keyboard directly off aliexpress. Thought I was initially impressed by the lower price and feel of the keys. I started to notice issues when typing fast and firmly. Sometimes the keys would double type on a single press. I would have to remember to type very softly for certain keys. After a while I ended up buying a second realforce for work to match the one I had at home. The build quality was good, and I never had any double typing issues. So while I do agree with the price point being more acceptable for plum, the quality control and durability long term might be an issue.
Yeah I read that what you described happened to a few people who bought Niz, and if I remembered correctly the fix was quite simple, something along the lines of a bluetooth receiver reset or software reset or something.
@@percy9228 If you do gaming a lot, it's good to keep a mechanical switch keyboard around. Otherwise, you will not look back once you get Niz. And get the 35g. When you switch from mechanical keyboard the 35g feels like linear, but actually the force curve is really carefully calibrated that your finger will notice it after a while of use, and your fingers will 100% notice & get used to it. Once they do, none of the mechanical keyboard will satisfy you. That's been my experience, also my friend's experience who owns 3 x $1000+ customized mechanical switch build. We just keep coming back to the Niz.
@@crybabyteamo I don't game, starting a computer science course in September and want a keyboard for programming only, I have no experience with mechanical keyboard, but I come across this and I like quiet keyboards, would you recommend it?
I feel like a better comparison would’ve been the silenced version of Topre since it sounds like the clone is trying to copy that version. The FC660C has a silenced version that’s quite similar from what I’ve experienced.
Switch and Click I love my FC660C :) But I don’t think I would love it as much if it wasn’t the silenced version. Make sure you get the right version! FC660C has both the non silenced and silenced~
My lubed + o-ringed cherry brown is very quiet. I guess it's as quiet as topre. If I do the same thing to cherry silent red, I can't imagine how quiet it will be.
@@seattledude2022 I've got the Kailh version of the browns, and I like them but the upstroke is still pretty loud. I don't think that that will change with lubing. Fortunately it's sitting in my own living, so it's not throwing anybody off, except when I'm video conferencing.
@@bartsi7325 well. I found it depends. I had a silent red, o-ringed and lubed. Lubing does make it even quieter. I have two sets of keycaps. O-ring silents one set but not another, so I think this depends on the keycap, mainly the profile. Right now the lubed silent red is quieter than any keyboard I used before, like Dell or Apple magic keyboard.
@@giuseppejoeramundo1452 Typing while on bluetooth is pretty smooth. I don't game on it so maybe someone else can give you better insight about any latency on the subject. I'm sure any wireless keyboard will give you some sort of latency while gaming. Haven't tried it on a Mac, but I connect between Windows and android pretty easily. Can connect up to 3 devices. Never had any connection drop issues so far.
Every single Topre-clone boards use the same rubber dome switches and sheets, which are manufactured by Niz/Plum ! It is said that Niz/plum dome sheets are 10g lighter than their Topre counterparts (45g topre is 55g niz). And since Niz/plum is more comparable to silenced topre switches
@@TheMasterofComment I googled them, and found they still used the Cherry switch, right? I tried both red and brown, but I still tired out after coding for a whole day. So sad.
Thank you Betty for this video, because of this I got my first Niz Plum X87. I come from Cherry MX Blues (yeah I know). For the first minute or so the Niz felt weird and squishy; however, after typing an hour straight (writing this on the 61st minute) I have no pain on my fingers. I also do powerlifting so typing more than an hour on MX Blues always hurt my fingers, especially on deadlifts, I don't think Niz will have any problem like that. It is like typing on clouds, you and the reviews on Amazon are correct. Also, I thought of getting the Camillo MT3 keyset that your husband uses for Niz (Aluminum), however, I am in love of the default keycaps, kind of rough to the touch and those white (oh la la) no videos do justice to how good looking those whites are, just love it. Also, the sound out of the box even for the spacebars and other stabs are just out of this world, dare I say THOCK! I wanted to try this before I jump on to the HHKB wagon, however, this is my end game (also got a sizeable discount from Amazon). Thank you so much for your review, you just won a sub for life.
@@GBR9794 Thank you Grieg, all the best for your search for the ultimate end-game keyboard. I, in my current condition would not prefer the freedom that a custom mech-keyboard offers, too much choices and too many ways for me to spend money and then regret. However, in that regards, Topre or Topre clone is great, you really don't have many choices for them. Want full size then Real force or Niz, want only the essentials then HHKB. Leopold in the middle of the spectrum.
This really seems the board I'm looking for! I almost immediately bought the 82 key version of it. I like having navigational keys (home, pg down/up and end) as primary keys, but still benefitting from the compact size so my mouse can comfortably lie beside it :). Thanks for this great review!
The problem with modern keyboards to me is the MX Housing. The MX type switches are originally designed to be linear switches and although I think the Green Alps are superior in every possible way, linear MX-type switches are great. But when the discussion comes to tactility and/or clickiness the MX type switches fail miserably. Even the Holy Pandas are no match for Topre in these categories imo. I can see and understand what most of the people are looking for when they build a custom keyboard but I prefer older keyboards and relatively niche housing on a switch. Great video by the way!
Topre destroyed my ability to enjoy MX tactile switches. They all feel like a tiny pebble is stuck inside the switch. I just ordered a Boba U4 Silent switch to test since it's apparently close to Topre. Prepared to be disappointed.
I like to use thicker springs for it and not the ones that they give you in the package but it's not like a major diff but it does give me a faster post travel and it feels more responsive but still quite
@@sizl9724 i bought a 68 this time:) 35g. i use it at home with Mac. In the office, i use FC660m's with Cherry MX black, blue, silver, clear and brown switches~
@@sizl9724 i just like to change the feeling between linear, tactile and click... light and heavy. so... mx browns fall to light and tactile, clear is heavy and tactile loooool. seems i need an mx green:)
man, the sound of the niz just does something for me. of course its all opinion with this stuff but holy shit for me it seems WAY better. just ordered one
Another factor for the price of the Realforce is that it’s made in Japan. If that is worth anything to the buyer, there it is. From what I gather, other quality Japanese brands like Filco and Archiss are made in Taiwan. I own 2 Realforce for Mac keyboards. One with the regular topre switches (black color like your review unit) and the other one with the silent switches (purple color). The silent switches seems to be better built than the regular switches: almost no rattle, silent bottoming out and upstroke, and generally feels better to me. Unfortunately, the price, I got the regular version for 24k yen and PFU limited edition (one with the silent switches) for 31k yen. Highest I paid for prebuilds, Topre is the Leica of ready made keyboards.
@@SwitchandClickOfficial You don't need to lube Topre switches, except the stabilizers, which are inside the switches housings, with thick grease. For silencing, I have described various methods on GeekHack. It makes a world of difference, and I personally would not use a non-silenced Topre keyboard. Once silenced, you may change your mind about the Niz.
I just received my NIZ x108 EC RGB keyboard!!!! I replaced the rubber domes, went from 35grams to the 50gram domes. Also, I ordered lots of extra 20gram springs. I installed 20gram springs on all the small keys, and installed 2x20gram springs on all the larger keys. Also , I just had to lube all the keys with dielectric grease. I absolutely love this keyboard and probably won't ever use mx switches ever again!! this is such a quality feel, just lovely to type on. the feel is amazing. thank you for introducing me to the NIZ!
I had the niz for a bit but sold it. I do think its really good though, but ultimately found that i still preferred my aluminum case customs and vintage boards. The EC switches feel really amazing and my typing speed on the niz ex 87 was super fast. Just not a huge fan of the plasticky case and clips to hold it together.
The Niz sounds like you're pouring a bubble bath. They used to be around $75; then they seem to have re-evaluated and stopped going after the low-end market. You can also get heavier bubble sheets for them. It often seems like a lube-based keyboard would be really popular - just springs and lube. ;) I didn't notice the telltale 'thock' of the Topre, so maybe more lube? As for personal taste, 60% (and under) boards seem cramped to the point of being dysfunctional. I could get by on a 65% (with a separate num pad). 75%+ layouts visually scan faster for productivity/professional use IMHO, but I just like keys clustered by function.
Great review and very detailed explanation of everything. Also love the improved production values. Critique: Your head was a bit cut off and your hair was rubbing against the lapel mic. Lighting was fine. Keep making such high quality videos!
I bought that same NIZ earlier in the year and my experience was the same as yours. Straight out of the box into a typing test and it was the fastest and most accurate keyboard I've used (although not close to your speed, lol). I like light switches personally, but I never expected something as light as 35g to be so accurate. I think your analysis is right, it's that extra stiffness at the top of the travel that makes it harder to make errors in comparison to other light switches, like the Gateron Reds I was using previously. I think this keyboard is especially recommended to anyone who likes light and even linear switches, it's so fast and accurate. The layout is also excellent. I have TKL and 60% layout keyboards, as well as full sized and this is probably my favourite. The one feature it may have been worth mentioning is that the NIZ also lets you adjust between 3 different actuation points (Fn + ') which may also help accuracy or speed depending on the typing style (a benefit of EC switches). Out of the box I think it's set to the highest, but I ended up preferring it on the middle setting.
@@fixups6536 Sorry this is probably too late now, lol. But it does have LEDs under the keys. The only issue is that the keys are opaque so you can't see the light through them. You can still see it around the key. It's an odd decision for them to make I thought, but seeing as it's MX compatible it's easy enough to change the keycaps.
When I was doing my research to buy a mechanical keyboard.I accidentally bought Drop+ Gateron Clear and HHKB Hybrid Silent. I will say Topre is still my favourite but Clear switch (I tried on a tester and decide to go with Clear) also is not bad. However, Topre makes me feel very serious typing machine, while Drop and other mechanical keyboard, with the RGB lighting, feels more fun to use. But I did lube, clipped Drops stabiliser, or I just couldn't accept the typing sound on spacebar, whole for HHKB I don't have to do anything, the enter and space keys have the best sound out of box. (And my kid stopped me when she learned that I had the idea to sell my Drop as she likes playing with the lighting effect a lot.) Among all the Topre choices, (HHKB, RealForce and Leopold) HHKB is the only one I want to consider as I don't want to encourage a brand in this year 2200 still using non-detachable micro USB.
Found your channel researching about topre keyboard. Loved the content and the honest review. Constructive criticism: editing needs to improve. e.g. the intro music felt cut-off
One thing I've noticed as I've been using Type Racer to improve my speed is that if I type on a heavy spring for a while when I switch to a light spring my speed and accuracy is dramatically improved temporarily. The effect seems to go away after a few races!
I looked at these. But to be honest, I could not motivate my wallet to get into the mechanical keyboards hobby without investing big time on improving my keyboard skillset completely. So now I'm rolling with a custom ortholinear with an alternative layout. For a person who didn't get into the hobby for social or economical reasons, I couldn't be happier. It's taking me time to get used to my custom setup, but I'm taking conscious control over how I interact with my computer. I don't think an artisan keyboard with fancy RGB would've done that for me ever.
Some people want things to be exactly how they always had it. That's the market for Topre. It made a niche for itself decades ago and everything is exactly the way it was to keep their customers coming back (and to save on costs). Now that high end keyboards are a far bigger market, the new players like Epomaker have the means to try their hand at competing with Topre, but they have a completely different approach because the keyboard world has learned a lot in the decades since Topre stopped changing. So the question is has mechanical keyboards improved beyond (or come near as make no difference to) capacitive, not has Epomaker made a good knock-off of a name brand.
I love Niz Plums so much, I have a lifetime supply of sealed boxed fresh keyboards so I can just plug a new one in if my first Niz ever dies. ITS SOOOOOOOO good. If topre would make a 25g or 30g I might switch back though.
Hey! It's been about one year and I still have my full size keyboard from niz! I love it the same I did as when I first got it. I'm waiting for the new year for the aluminum case! It was because of this video that made me try it :)
I got Niz plum (topre clone) when my FC660C had some issues (loose connection port until I replaced it with the hasu controller - now it's a beast). The Niz felt feather light to press and the feedback bump was not as strong as the FC660C so it was lacking something to me. Once I got the FC660C fixed it became my primary driver again. I use Boba U4 + Iqunix + SA keycaps when I work as I need the F# keys + wireless, but other than that I go back to the topre. Topre feels so unique and sounds amazing.
Got myself a bunch of topre keyboards to find which I like best and now I hate my mechanical keyboard 😂 Settled on the HHKB type 2 hybrid. Got the atom66 for backup just incase. The Atom66 feels a little bit lighter than the HHKB but the HHKB can be wireless which works for in the office. Either of the two for me are great keyboards and the mrs doesn’t complain about noisy keybaords. If you want a quiet keyboard, Topre is the way to go
I stick with Realforce and it's premium price primarily because they are the only keyboard brand that will make variable weighted keyboards which is my preferred style. Variable weight kind of gets a bad wrap thanks to gaming culture and pinky-less typists. But I think it's worth trying if you haven't, especially if you are serious about really mastering classical home-row touch typing.
@@supermarioplushtvshow for me personally it's not a problem since all of the weight of the keystroke is at the top, like a rubber dome typically is. I suspect that as long as you practice good home-row touch typing techniques you will never have that problem since the pinky is the finger that should be actuating the lightest switches.
I really suggest you one day to test the Aliaz 100g switch one day. There are my fav :-) Anyway thanks for this video. I wanted my first keyboard to be an Atom 66, but I ended with a real mechanical (Iqunix F60 2020) and do not regret it.
Is there an RGB cherry stem equivalent that comes close to the comfort/feel of the niz switches? I have the niz plum and it is BY FAR the most comfortable typing experience but I need RGB to quickly highlight specific macros. Can you suggest something that's actually available to easily get / still made?
It's unfortunate that the epomaker mini 84 is discontinued and the micro 84 front print version doesn't have any hope of coming back, I wanted to buy it, I don't like the aesthetics of the 84 pro tho :( great video, I hope you guys continue to make videos and get sponsorships, I really enjoy this channel, hope you guys make a refresh on alt keyboard layouts since it looks to be a common topic nowadays... Or maybe is because I'm in the dvorak community....
few things weird about this video.. 1. You're definition of electro capacitive switches are really off..sort of giving misinformation. 2. The springs aren't there for a "regulated spring force" whatever that means. They're for registering key presses with the PCB, it uses capacitive sensing to detect how far or how much the spring is compressed. Which is why they're considered a hybrid mechanical board. 3. You yourself said you prefer a lighter switch, then why would you compare with a 55g board topre board, those are already very niche and feel very different from their normal 45g board. 4. It's also weird you keep referring to the weight as spring force implying you think the spring is what dictates the weight for topre boards, which is incorrect.. it's the domes that give the weighting. Just makes it seem like you didn't really do proper research of topre boards/switches. 5. You're doing a sound comparison of a silent clone vs normal topre switch, that's like comparing cherry mx blues to a cherry mx clear.. kind of weird. 6. You said the Niz has a lot more features like being mac compatible and bluetooth.. wouldn't a HHKB Professional Hybrid be a better comparison compared to a realforce?
FYI : The niz plum model on your video and the link it's not the same one. I just noticed after I watched several times and I already bought the model in the link which is Niz plum 66 but what you reviewed is Niz 68 . You can noticed by the right shift key since it not the same , the 66 version shared the R shift with the arrow up key . and Now I bought the 66 already. haha it's in my hand now and typing with it. Thanks for the review by the way
Because of your vids I now bought a Niz Plum 84 and what should I say, it really is like typing on clouds. 😊 Now I need to find keycaps for German Layout, mhmm.
Sooo.... I don't want to be that person, but I would really recommend learning more about Topre before making a video about them. Because there are so many mistakes. Ok here we go... 1. The Epomaker has silencing rings on the sliders, but the Realforce doesn't. That's why the upstroke is louder on the Realforce. Realforce also sells keyboards that have silencing rings on the sliders, they are known as their purple sliders. So it's quite a bit of an unfair comparison here. 2. Topre keyboards need just as much modding as Cherry MX keyboards to get the most out of them. They can be lubed, have silencing rings added (an absolute must in my opinion), there are aftermarket cases like the Norbauer that come in aluminum and steel variants, different keycaps, different weights and different dome styles like the BKE domes... The newest trend is to add sound dampening foam between the slider holders and top case, because those can cause rattle. And of course there is case foam, different plate materials, keycaps, etc. 3. The realforce does have stabilizers, but they are underneath that black plastic shielding. And they are factory lubed, but I would definitely recommend lubing them afterwards because it's not enough lube. They need a lot of lube. Like, a loooooot of lube. But because of the rubber domes, you don't really need to worry about making them sluggish. Anyways, I just think this video could use a redo, thank you for the videos nonetheless, it's just this one that I think doesn't have the facts straight.
Bought the Niz Plum and am loving it so far. Only issue I've found is that you can't turn off the caps lock back light on Mac. A minor annoyance if you remap the key to something else like esc.
@@SwitchandClickOfficial Did you do a comparison with adding the springs? Haven't tried yet but was curious if it made a big difference. Thinking of ordering the 20g springs from Niz just in case.
So I have an HHKB and a Realforce. Today I did a Pepsi Challenge. (Dated Gen X reference?) I directly AB'd them with my humble Logitech K850--which I prefer to the MX Keys, K650 and probably even my MX Mechanical with blue switches. But I expected it to get completely outclassed by Topre. It didn't happen. I suppose the overall Topre feel was a bit softer--which I attribute largely to the keycaps actually. But it was very, very close. And then when I consider the 850 is low profile, has a nice built in wrist rest, has a flatter layout which makes it easier to touch type........I mean. I think the K850 wins. I kind of like typing on it more than the Topres. I think Topre is for people who secretly love the soft feel of rubber domes but can't face loving the same kind of keyboards their mom uses or the jerk in their IT department gave them. But what if you could get that key feel but it costs $200--$300? And what if almost no one IRL has ever heard of them? Now you've separated yourself from the unwashed massed. Topre sells exclusivity. But maybe not much more.
@@SwitchandClickOfficial It's good thing. I'm thinking of buying this. I need a nice compact keyboard for the desk and something that I can use without having to constantly hit mute on the Jabra speaker phone for conference calls.
@@knightGunners78 My daily driver for the past year has been a Leopold MX Silent Red board. I just ordered the 55g Topre and will give you a comparison once received.
The amount of your head that's being cut off in the shot is really throwing me off. I had to stop the video to check and make sure my page wasn't partially scrolled or something. Other than that, good job on the comparison. Useful information throughout.
I personally have the same thoughts with topre so it’s cool to know that I’m not the only one, it really just comes down to preference and there is no denying that it’s overpriced
I really like the Realforce R2 board, the feel of topre and the sturdy feel of the base feels good. Personally i prefer heavy switches compared to light switches, which is why I bought the 55g board when I was in Japan 2 years ago. It is easily the best tactile board I have ever typed on. The only qualm I have with the board is the basic layout and lack of detachable cable.
@@SwitchandClickOfficial Actually, another issue I find with the Realforce boards is the latency, polling and scan rate. They're pretty bad for gaming (especially rhythm games). I like the feel of typing on them but don't particularly enjoy gaming with them, so I use them mostly for coding. Gaming was not an intended target audience by Realforce so I guess this is expected.
I literally bought the niz 2021 and just got it. I hate how loud the spacebar is, you should try the smaller niz keyboards with the smaller spacebar. My friend has the mircro 84 and it sounds like a whole different keyboard on every key and has like 0 rattle on the stabilizers. Niz told me to return mine through amazon but after seeing this video I think thats just how loud these spacebars are on the 2021 87 models. Gonna probably try the Micro versions next with the small space bar. EDIT: I was wrong, niz said my spacebar was broke somehow and to exchange it. I exchanged it and it sounds amazing with basically no rattle.
After watching this video I bought the niz plum! It was my favorite keyboard for a year or two but then just recently the space bar just stops registering key presses once every 5 strokes or so 😑 it's very upsetting
After I tried a dozen or so options, I settled on Topre and haven't changed for over 11 years. I use it for everywhere, sitting indoors, dusty places, outdoors, cold, warm, patio. Keyboards with lots of lube are a sign they may not work optimally in hairy homes. If you have pets, Topre's it.
Ironically im looking at this video because my cat pissed on my R2 and fried it (none of the top rows work unfortunately, even after the isopropyl treatment) and i'm looking at a replacement. I honestly feel like my partner just died haha. Im very tempted to get the Niz after watching this, i love the bump of it. I guess its worth mentioning, so, for those who are thinking about Topre switches, just be very very prepared for how tedious the disassembly process is if you ever need to get to the PCB, while a testament to how well built these boards are, putting it back together properly can be a task that takes about an hour or so (especially if you want to clean the entire board after a spill for example).
After 30+ years of using bucking spring, mechanical, rubber dome, chiclet, etc... I settled on Topre and absolutely love it.
Buckling springs are the best for typing in my opinion, however, they are too loud for use at the office. So Topre wins for me.
@@aygwm I agree. Buckling springs are the best, hands down, but very loud. I do like Matias switches-both clicky and quiet-but there’s something about Topre. I switch off between the two.
topre feels like absolute dogwater
there are very very many variants within mechanical though
ok boomer
Thanks for this thorough review. I have the 84 version of the Niz and I really like it. It was also surprising for me to notice the significant increase in typing accuracy as well. Some learnings I got while researching this that can be worth sharing here:
- The small metal spring inside the switches are solely for the purpose of measuring the position of the dome via the changes in the electronic capacitance changes in the spring. They are actually very lightweight so they do not contribute in any significant way to the feel of the keys.
- This design allows them to change/tune the triggering point per key. With Niz one you can change the actuation point by Fn+F8 (toggling between three sensitivities)
That's pretty awesome. I didn't even know that. The manual itself is not very comprehensive
IMO Topre isn't overrated, but it is overpriced. This coming from a RF 87U owner.
True true, so much money
Yeah, I have a Realforce and a Leopold with MX Silvers. The R2 is more than double the $. Not a great value, but great to type on.
It's because it's entirely made in Japan. I wonder if people know that.
@@jonirojonironin5353 why though. They could just outsource to China or Vietnam and make them cheaper and sell more.
@@jonirojonironin5353 no it's because Topre's are patented and they know that they can overprice them, same thing happened with cherry
I am now a happy owner of a niz plum. This baby feels amazing to type on. Thx for the review, really saved me tons of money since i was considering the topre board
Glad I could help!
@@SwitchandClickOfficial do they have Bluetooth connectivity?
Describe what it feels like
Good for gaming?
@@TheChimples perfectly fine
the topre sounds like a lobster trying to escape a pot of boiling water
LOL
Fuck me, this is a great comment.
you might have single handedly ruined my topre switches for me lmaoo
I figured out that what I was looking for all this time are those rubber rings that dampen the pullback clack a.k.a. lobster in distress. Which I hate. Which is not an expensive feature and can make every keyboard premium for a small buck...why does nobody add them!?!?!? 😭
lmfaaao
oh my goodness, i really loved the sound of that niz !! so nice, and nice that you can change the keycaps with standard caps.
Great video, Betty! I thought it may be worth saying just in case someone else hasn't: those mods are stabilised. That's why the top chassis slider wells are bigger on those keys. The stabilisers are inside the housing; you've got to crack the board open and dismantle it down to the PCB before you spot them. They're heavily lubed on HHKBs.
Very impressed by that Niz Plum!
ooh, a controversial topic! Liked!
Thanks!
I recently bought the Realforce R2 55g tkl (Non-Silent version), I also have the NIZ x87 (Tkl version of the NIZ shown in this video). Originally the NIZ I purchased had 35g, but I eventually upgraded it to 50g. Here's what I noticed, if you're after tactility, it's not a close contest at all. The R2 55g is a tactile king, meanwhile the NIZ at 35g has a linear feel to it. Even when I upgraded the NIZ dome to 50g it still felt quite light. Also the build quality of the keyboards was night and day. The NIZ is nice, but when I unpacked the R2, it made the NIZ feel like cheap plastic. The thing that surprised me the most between the two is the sound of the R2 was actually a lot quieter than the NIZ (Which is silenced), so don't take the sound test in this video seriously because they have a mic when she's typing.
Overall, the NIZ feels nice and I even prefer it over any MX style keyboard, but make no mistake, if you want to experience the Topre feel, NIZ is not going to capture that.
are you sure the realforce 55g (non silent) is quieter? every sound test I watch on youtube makes it sound pretty loud
@@souperman6406 That's the problem, a lot of these sound tests put microphones near the keyboard that makes it sound louder. In reality it's a fairly quiet keyboard, and even more quiet if it's silenced.
I'd say this video is probably a more accurate representation of what the Realforce R2 non-silenced 55g sounds like: th-cam.com/video/8IuWAUDGXoY/w-d-xo.html
As a niz 82 owner, I absolutely love the feel and functionality. I type a lot and the light niz switches make the typing speed and fatigue much better compared to my other mechanical keyboards. The 82 version has the num lock feature as well (not that I use it very often). One thing that didn't get mentioned in this video is that niz lets you choose the actuation distance of the keys (i.e. how far down a press on the switch should be registered as an input), which is possible because the switch uses capacitors so technically you can pick any actuation distance in between. I use this functionality a lot and make my actuation distance very short if I want to type super fast.
Thank you for this information!
hey how do you adjust Niz's actuation distance? thanks!
is that for windows only?
Niz is great
I did not know this, holy fuck that makes Niz 100x more interesting to me than topre.
Variable actuation is literally the future of keyboards, and if you can get that nice rubber dome tactile feel with variable actuation, that's pretty huge.
"It looks old". Oh cmon, the vintage look is great. Much better than that RGB gamer thing that most keyboards are into. Sure, it's no match for custom keyboards, but it's still great compared to gamer style
@Akutil a keyboard used to be a luxury now it’s an afterthought if only major companies put more time in their boards
Definitely! Got my HHKB in the off white as I love that vintage look. Serves me well and a lot of people at work have been impressed with it too
I love your reviews. Objective, straight to the point, no need for yelling nor pretending to be super excited all the time. Keeping it real.
Some people instantly forget the “real” tone reviewers, sadly. Click and retention statistics push content creators towards the high energy tone.
I’m not sure what I prefer… and I wouldn’t want someone to feel like they couldn’t make a video based on their mood being “off brand.” I guess it doesn’t matter for me so long as the info is good 🤷🏼♂️
I initially bought a niz plum as a work keyboard directly off aliexpress. Thought I was initially impressed by the lower price and feel of the keys. I started to notice issues when typing fast and firmly. Sometimes the keys would double type on a single press. I would have to remember to type very softly for certain keys. After a while I ended up buying a second realforce for work to match the one I had at home. The build quality was good, and I never had any double typing issues. So while I do agree with the price point being more acceptable for plum, the quality control and durability long term might be an issue.
Yeah I read that what you described happened to a few people who bought Niz, and if I remembered correctly the fix was quite simple, something along the lines of a bluetooth receiver reset or software reset or something.
@@crybabyteamo so in your opinion would you get the Niz of aliexpress?
@@percy9228 If you do gaming a lot, it's good to keep a mechanical switch keyboard around. Otherwise, you will not look back once you get Niz. And get the 35g. When you switch from mechanical keyboard the 35g feels like linear, but actually the force curve is really carefully calibrated that your finger will notice it after a while of use, and your fingers will 100% notice & get used to it. Once they do, none of the mechanical keyboard will satisfy you. That's been my experience, also my friend's experience who owns 3 x $1000+ customized mechanical switch build. We just keep coming back to the Niz.
@@crybabyteamo I don't game, starting a computer science course in September and want a keyboard for programming only, I have no experience with mechanical keyboard, but I come across this and I like quiet keyboards, would you recommend it?
@@percy9228 100%. quietest and most satisfying to type on.
woah is it me or did the production quality just take a huge jump?
great vid switch and click
Thank you for noticing 👌
I have a realforce and love it. It doesn't feel like any cherry switch and if you prefer the feel, it is worth the price.
Definitely a unique feel
I'm so happy I found this video before confirming my order on an hhkb, thank you! SUBSCRIBED!!
Glad I could help!
I feel like a better comparison would’ve been the silenced version of Topre since it sounds like the clone is trying to copy that version. The FC660C has a silenced version that’s quite similar from what I’ve experienced.
Hoping to get a FC660C soon... or mod the Realforce
Switch and Click I love my FC660C :) But I don’t think I would love it as much if it wasn’t the silenced version. Make sure you get the right version! FC660C has both the non silenced and silenced~
this person read all the comments. that is awesome.
Topre is a preference like any switches
100% agree
My lubed + o-ringed cherry brown is very quiet. I guess it's as quiet as topre. If I do the same thing to cherry silent red, I can't imagine how quiet it will be.
@@seattledude2022 I've got the Kailh version of the browns, and I like them but the upstroke is still pretty loud. I don't think that that will change with lubing. Fortunately it's sitting in my own living, so it's not throwing anybody off, except when I'm video conferencing.
@@seattledude2022 o rings and lubing doesn’t make any difference to the silent reds (well, lubing does make them smoother but not quieter)
@@bartsi7325 well. I found it depends. I had a silent red, o-ringed and lubed. Lubing does make it even quieter. I have two sets of keycaps. O-ring silents one set but not another, so I think this depends on the keycap, mainly the profile. Right now the lubed silent red is quieter than any keyboard I used before, like Dell or Apple magic keyboard.
I too have a niz plum
Amazing quality and the THUMP is silency
They are very nice
Niz Plum Atom 68. No springs, 45g electro capacitive switches. ☁️☁️☁️
How's the bluetooth? Does is switch between devices easily?
@@giuseppejoeramundo1452 Typing while on bluetooth is pretty smooth. I don't game on it so maybe someone else can give you better insight about any latency on the subject. I'm sure any wireless keyboard will give you some sort of latency while gaming. Haven't tried it on a Mac, but I connect between Windows and android pretty easily. Can connect up to 3 devices. Never had any connection drop issues so far.
When I hear the niz plum sound... It makes me feel like heavy rain hitting a window pane.... Calming stuff
Every single Topre-clone boards use the same rubber dome switches and sheets, which are manufactured by Niz/Plum !
It is said that Niz/plum dome sheets are 10g lighter than their Topre counterparts (45g topre is 55g niz). And since Niz/plum is more comparable to silenced topre switches
Hey Han. Which one would you like to code heavily with? Thx.
@@INFINITYLOVE520 neither. Blue, orange alps and model f is the best!
@@TheMasterofComment I googled them, and found they still used the Cherry switch, right? I tried both red and brown, but I still tired out after coding for a whole day. So sad.
@@INFINITYLOVE520 no not cherry
@@TheMasterofComment Interesting. Let me dig into it. Thanks.
My first keyboard was actually a Realforce. I couldn't find anything overseas, so I bought one locally available to me.
Thank you Betty for this video, because of this I got my first Niz Plum X87. I come from Cherry MX Blues (yeah I know). For the first minute or so the Niz felt weird and squishy; however, after typing an hour straight (writing this on the 61st minute) I have no pain on my fingers. I also do powerlifting so typing more than an hour on MX Blues always hurt my fingers, especially on deadlifts, I don't think Niz will have any problem like that. It is like typing on clouds, you and the reviews on Amazon are correct.
Also, I thought of getting the Camillo MT3 keyset that your husband uses for Niz (Aluminum), however, I am in love of the default keycaps, kind of rough to the touch and those white (oh la la) no videos do justice to how good looking those whites are, just love it. Also, the sound out of the box even for the spacebars and other stabs are just out of this world, dare I say THOCK!
I wanted to try this before I jump on to the HHKB wagon, however, this is my end game (also got a sizeable discount from Amazon). Thank you so much for your review, you just won a sub for life.
@@GBR9794 Thank you Grieg, all the best for your search for the ultimate end-game keyboard. I, in my current condition would not prefer the freedom that a custom mech-keyboard offers, too much choices and too many ways for me to spend money and then regret. However, in that regards, Topre or Topre clone is great, you really don't have many choices for them. Want full size then Real force or Niz, want only the essentials then HHKB. Leopold in the middle of the spectrum.
Thanks for your honesty in changing you pre-conceived idea about Topre. I'm puzzling about them myself.
This really seems the board I'm looking for! I almost immediately bought the 82 key version of it. I like having navigational keys (home, pg down/up and end) as primary keys, but still benefitting from the compact size so my mouse can comfortably lie beside it :).
Thanks for this great review!
I’ve been wanting to try out Topre switches. The price doesn’t make sense. I just ordered an Epomaker. This makes sense. Great channel.
Glad I could help!
The problem with modern keyboards to me is the MX Housing. The MX type switches are originally designed to be linear switches and although I think the Green Alps are superior in every possible way, linear MX-type switches are great. But when the discussion comes to tactility and/or clickiness the MX type switches fail miserably. Even the Holy Pandas are no match for Topre in these categories imo. I can see and understand what most of the people are looking for when they build a custom keyboard but I prefer older keyboards and relatively niche housing on a switch. Great video by the way!
Topre destroyed my ability to enjoy MX tactile switches. They all feel like a tiny pebble is stuck inside the switch. I just ordered a Boba U4 Silent switch to test since it's apparently close to Topre. Prepared to be disappointed.
Good quantifying review, however, I did feel personally attacked when you kept roasting the realforce’s design. I like my classic keyboard look.
Sorry about that
owned a Niz Mini 84 before. Just preferred the typing sound, more variations of layouts and high-quality stabilizers.
I like to use thicker springs for it and not the ones that they give you in the package but it's not like a major diff but it does give me a faster post travel and it feels more responsive but still quite
@@sizl9724 i bought a 68 this time:) 35g. i use it at home with Mac. In the office, i use FC660m's with Cherry MX black, blue, silver, clear and brown switches~
@@Pleasantviller MX browns!!!! how dare you (joke but still mx browns srsly?)
@@sizl9724 i just like to change the feeling between linear, tactile and click... light and heavy. so... mx browns fall to light and tactile, clear is heavy and tactile loooool. seems i need an mx green:)
@@Pleasantvillerwhich one? the razer one or matcha greens
man, the sound of the niz just does something for me. of course its all opinion with this stuff but holy shit for me it seems WAY better. just ordered one
I love the Realforce boards. They’re so well built for a prebuilt.
Try a Leopold FC660C or FC980C
@@aygwm an FC660C is what I type on everyday
@@aygwm Yeah I heard that the Leopold topre blows them away.
Love this new video setup 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Yay! Thank you!
Pure ASMR. Sounds like the pitter patter of raindrops
Another factor for the price of the Realforce is that it’s made in Japan. If that is worth anything to the buyer, there it is. From what I gather, other quality Japanese brands like Filco and Archiss are made in Taiwan.
I own 2 Realforce for Mac keyboards. One with the regular topre switches (black color like your review unit) and the other one with the silent switches (purple color). The silent switches seems to be better built than the regular switches: almost no rattle, silent bottoming out and upstroke, and generally feels better to me.
Unfortunately, the price, I got the regular version for 24k yen and PFU limited edition (one with the silent switches) for 31k yen. Highest I paid for prebuilds, Topre is the Leica of ready made keyboards.
Someday, I'll mod the Realforce to silence and lube :P
@@SwitchandClickOfficial that would certainly make an interesting video!
@@SwitchandClickOfficial You don't need to lube Topre switches, except the stabilizers, which are inside the switches housings, with thick grease. For silencing, I have described various methods on GeekHack. It makes a world of difference, and I personally would not use a non-silenced Topre keyboard. Once silenced, you may change your mind about the Niz.
Loved the video! The niz plum sounds fantastic
Thanks so much for the support! It really does. Jake's been using it nonstop since I let go of it after this video.
I just received my NIZ x108 EC RGB keyboard!!!! I replaced the rubber domes, went from 35grams to the 50gram domes. Also, I ordered lots of extra 20gram springs. I installed 20gram springs on all the small keys, and installed 2x20gram springs on all the larger keys. Also , I just had to lube all the keys with dielectric grease. I absolutely love this keyboard and probably won't ever use mx switches ever again!! this is such a quality feel, just lovely to type on. the feel is amazing. thank you for introducing me to the NIZ!
Awesome!
I had the niz for a bit but sold it. I do think its really good though, but ultimately found that i still preferred my aluminum case customs and vintage boards. The EC switches feel really amazing and my typing speed on the niz ex 87 was super fast. Just not a huge fan of the plasticky case and clips to hold it together.
EXCELLENT REVIEW! Straigt to the point and very informative. Thank you :)
Glad it was helpful!
Nice, honest, organised and awsome review. Glad I subscribed ! ^^
Awesome, thank you!
Your voice is actually relaxing
The Niz sounds like you're pouring a bubble bath. They used to be around $75; then they seem to have re-evaluated and stopped going after the low-end market. You can also get heavier bubble sheets for them. It often seems like a lube-based keyboard would be really popular - just springs and lube. ;) I didn't notice the telltale 'thock' of the Topre, so maybe more lube?
As for personal taste, 60% (and under) boards seem cramped to the point of being dysfunctional. I could get by on a 65% (with a separate num pad). 75%+ layouts visually scan faster for productivity/professional use IMHO, but I just like keys clustered by function.
Great review and very detailed explanation of everything. Also love the improved production values. Critique: Your head was a bit cut off and your hair was rubbing against the lapel mic. Lighting was fine. Keep making such high quality videos!
Thanks for the tips! I've noticed that too
@@SwitchandClickOfficial Check out the DSLR Video Shooter YT channel. Some great info there!
I bought that same NIZ earlier in the year and my experience was the same as yours. Straight out of the box into a typing test and it was the fastest and most accurate keyboard I've used (although not close to your speed, lol).
I like light switches personally, but I never expected something as light as 35g to be so accurate. I think your analysis is right, it's that extra stiffness at the top of the travel that makes it harder to make errors in comparison to other light switches, like the Gateron Reds I was using previously. I think this keyboard is especially recommended to anyone who likes light and even linear switches, it's so fast and accurate.
The layout is also excellent. I have TKL and 60% layout keyboards, as well as full sized and this is probably my favourite.
The one feature it may have been worth mentioning is that the NIZ also lets you adjust between 3 different actuation points (Fn + ') which may also help accuracy or speed depending on the typing style (a benefit of EC switches). Out of the box I think it's set to the highest, but I ended up preferring it on the middle setting.
Gréât info, I was looking for this bit in the video, but she never mentionned it. Does it have a CapsLock LED?
@@fixups6536 Sorry this is probably too late now, lol. But it does have LEDs under the keys. The only issue is that the keys are opaque so you can't see the light through them. You can still see it around the key. It's an odd decision for them to make I thought, but seeing as it's MX compatible it's easy enough to change the keycaps.
@@iantellam9970 I was asking about the CapsLock LED, the one that lits up when you are typing in capitals.
@@fixups6536 Yes me too. The LED underneath the key lights up when Capslock is on.
@@iantellam9970 OK I see. Thank you!
When I was doing my research to buy a mechanical keyboard.I accidentally bought Drop+ Gateron Clear and HHKB Hybrid Silent. I will say Topre is still my favourite but Clear switch (I tried on a tester and decide to go with Clear) also is not bad. However, Topre makes me feel very serious typing machine, while Drop and other mechanical keyboard, with the RGB lighting, feels more fun to use. But I did lube, clipped Drops stabiliser, or I just couldn't accept the typing sound on spacebar, whole for HHKB I don't have to do anything, the enter and space keys have the best sound out of box. (And my kid stopped me when she learned that I had the idea to sell my Drop as she likes playing with the lighting effect a lot.)
Among all the Topre choices, (HHKB, RealForce and Leopold) HHKB is the only one I want to consider as I don't want to encourage a brand in this year 2200 still using non-detachable micro USB.
Both HHKB and Realforce are produced by the same brand, you know.
Found your channel researching about topre keyboard. Loved the content and the honest review. Constructive criticism: editing needs to improve. e.g. the intro music felt cut-off
Great video, learned a lot more about Niz and decide to buy one!
One thing I've noticed as I've been using Type Racer to improve my speed is that if I type on a heavy spring for a while when I switch to a light spring my speed and accuracy is dramatically improved temporarily. The effect seems to go away after a few races!
Maybe you're overcompensating on the light springs :P
I looked at these. But to be honest, I could not motivate my wallet to get into the mechanical keyboards hobby without investing big time on improving my keyboard skillset completely. So now I'm rolling with a custom ortholinear with an alternative layout. For a person who didn't get into the hobby for social or economical reasons, I couldn't be happier. It's taking me time to get used to my custom setup, but I'm taking conscious control over how I interact with my computer. I don't think an artisan keyboard with fancy RGB would've done that for me ever.
Forgot to say nice video as always !
Thanks again!
Some people want things to be exactly how they always had it. That's the market for Topre. It made a niche for itself decades ago and everything is exactly the way it was to keep their customers coming back (and to save on costs). Now that high end keyboards are a far bigger market, the new players like Epomaker have the means to try their hand at competing with Topre, but they have a completely different approach because the keyboard world has learned a lot in the decades since Topre stopped changing. So the question is has mechanical keyboards improved beyond (or come near as make no difference to) capacitive, not has Epomaker made a good knock-off of a name brand.
Makes sense
Sounds like Epomaker spam to me....
I love Niz Plums so much, I have a lifetime supply of sealed boxed fresh keyboards so I can just plug a new one in if my first Niz ever dies. ITS SOOOOOOOO good. If topre would make a 25g or 30g I might switch back though.
Wait, you bought a bunch of Niz keyboards at the same time?
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 epic consoomer fail amirite.
Hey! It's been about one year and I still have my full size keyboard from niz! I love it the same I did as when I first got it. I'm waiting for the new year for the aluminum case! It was because of this video that made me try it :)
That's awesome!
I want a sound in between the two. The NIZ is good but a little too muted, but the R2 sounds too high-pitched on the upstroke.
I got Niz plum (topre clone) when my FC660C had some issues (loose connection port until I replaced it with the hasu controller - now it's a beast). The Niz felt feather light to press and the feedback bump was not as strong as the FC660C so it was lacking something to me. Once I got the FC660C fixed it became my primary driver again. I use Boba U4 + Iqunix + SA keycaps when I work as I need the F# keys + wireless, but other than that I go back to the topre. Topre feels so unique and sounds amazing.
Got myself a bunch of topre keyboards to find which I like best and now I hate my mechanical keyboard 😂 Settled on the HHKB type 2 hybrid. Got the atom66 for backup just incase. The Atom66 feels a little bit lighter than the HHKB but the HHKB can be wireless which works for in the office. Either of the two for me are great keyboards and the mrs doesn’t complain about noisy keybaords. If you want a quiet keyboard, Topre is the way to go
I stick with Realforce and it's premium price primarily because they are the only keyboard brand that will make variable weighted keyboards which is my preferred style. Variable weight kind of gets a bad wrap thanks to gaming culture and pinky-less typists. But I think it's worth trying if you haven't, especially if you are serious about really mastering classical home-row touch typing.
I've heard some people comment that the lighter keys are easy to actuate by accident on a mixed weight keyboard. Did you notice this too?
@@supermarioplushtvshow for me personally it's not a problem since all of the weight of the keystroke is at the top, like a rubber dome typically is. I suspect that as long as you practice good home-row touch typing techniques you will never have that problem since the pinky is the finger that should be actuating the lightest switches.
I really appreciate the video. It looks like now Niz Keyboards are only to be found on their website, and start at about $180.
You were at 400 subs a few moths ago, great to see how much your channel has grown!
It's been quite a journey! Thanks so much for sticking around
I really suggest you one day to test the Aliaz 100g switch one day. There are my fav :-)
Anyway thanks for this video. I wanted my first keyboard to be an Atom 66, but I ended with a real mechanical (Iqunix F60 2020) and do not regret it.
I bought a bunch of aliaz 70g but haven't come yet
Interesting, I came across Livakivi's HHKB topre non-mechanical switch buy seems to be still cool, keyboard, a kb from 2003.
God bless.
Is there an RGB cherry stem equivalent that comes close to the comfort/feel of the niz switches? I have the niz plum and it is BY FAR the most comfortable typing experience but I need RGB to quickly highlight specific macros. Can you suggest something that's actually available to easily get / still made?
I love the vintage looking keebs ngl
Such a good scratchy thocky sound. It’s hard not to love Topre after you’ve tried other stuff.
It's unfortunate that the epomaker mini 84 is discontinued and the micro 84 front print version doesn't have any hope of coming back, I wanted to buy it, I don't like the aesthetics of the 84 pro tho :( great video, I hope you guys continue to make videos and get sponsorships, I really enjoy this channel, hope you guys make a refresh on alt keyboard layouts since it looks to be a common topic nowadays... Or maybe is because I'm in the dvorak community....
Thanks for the support!
Niz Plum finally getting some attention!
For sure!
Not only overrated but also overpriced
I prefer the epomaker only because it sounds like placing Minecraft cobblestone in a way
few things weird about this video..
1. You're definition of electro capacitive switches are really off..sort of giving misinformation.
2. The springs aren't there for a "regulated spring force" whatever that means. They're for registering key presses with the PCB, it uses capacitive sensing to detect how far or how much the spring is compressed. Which is why they're considered a hybrid mechanical board.
3. You yourself said you prefer a lighter switch, then why would you compare with a 55g board topre board, those are already very niche and feel very different from their normal 45g board.
4. It's also weird you keep referring to the weight as spring force implying you think the spring is what dictates the weight for topre boards, which is incorrect.. it's the domes that give the weighting. Just makes it seem like you didn't really do proper research of topre boards/switches.
5. You're doing a sound comparison of a silent clone vs normal topre switch, that's like comparing cherry mx blues to a cherry mx clear.. kind of weird.
6. You said the Niz has a lot more features like being mac compatible and bluetooth.. wouldn't a HHKB Professional Hybrid be a better comparison compared to a realforce?
Not trying to be the Topre expert, it is my first Topre board. Thanks for the corrections
And how much is a HHKB topre keyboard again?
@@roboticvenom1935 I haz a hhkb topre best
congrats on 13k!!
Thank you so much 😀
Switch and Click np you deserve it 😁
Hoooray! My wife uses the Niz keeb! I've not watched it yet.. hope Niz comes on top :P
I hope so too!
FYI : The niz plum model on your video and the link it's not the same one. I just noticed after I watched several times and I already bought the model in the link which is Niz plum 66
but what you reviewed is Niz 68 . You can noticed by the right shift key since it not the same , the 66 version shared the R shift with the arrow up key . and Now I bought the 66 already. haha it's in my hand now and typing with it. Thanks for the review by the way
Because of your vids I now bought a Niz Plum 84 and what should I say, it really is like typing on clouds. 😊 Now I need to find keycaps for German Layout, mhmm.
Sooo.... I don't want to be that person, but I would really recommend learning more about Topre before making a video about them. Because there are so many mistakes. Ok here we go...
1. The Epomaker has silencing rings on the sliders, but the Realforce doesn't. That's why the upstroke is louder on the Realforce. Realforce also sells keyboards that have silencing rings on the sliders, they are known as their purple sliders. So it's quite a bit of an unfair comparison here.
2. Topre keyboards need just as much modding as Cherry MX keyboards to get the most out of them. They can be lubed, have silencing rings added (an absolute must in my opinion), there are aftermarket cases like the Norbauer that come in aluminum and steel variants, different keycaps, different weights and different dome styles like the BKE domes... The newest trend is to add sound dampening foam between the slider holders and top case, because those can cause rattle. And of course there is case foam, different plate materials, keycaps, etc.
3. The realforce does have stabilizers, but they are underneath that black plastic shielding. And they are factory lubed, but I would definitely recommend lubing them afterwards because it's not enough lube. They need a lot of lube. Like, a loooooot of lube. But because of the rubber domes, you don't really need to worry about making them sluggish.
Anyways, I just think this video could use a redo, thank you for the videos nonetheless, it's just this one that I think doesn't have the facts straight.
All these issues could be excused, just the prices are bloated. So NIZ Plum it is.
Not trying to be a Topre export :P Thanks for the corrections
Bought the Niz Plum and am loving it so far. Only issue I've found is that you can't turn off the caps lock back light on Mac. A minor annoyance if you remap the key to something else like esc.
Oh I see.
@@SwitchandClickOfficial I contacted Niz and they replied it's not possible at the moment (at least on Mac)
@@SwitchandClickOfficial Did you do a comparison with adding the springs? Haven't tried yet but was curious if it made a big difference. Thinking of ordering the 20g springs from Niz just in case.
So I have an HHKB and a Realforce. Today I did a Pepsi Challenge. (Dated Gen X reference?) I directly AB'd them with my humble Logitech K850--which I prefer to the MX Keys, K650 and probably even my MX Mechanical with blue switches. But I expected it to get completely outclassed by Topre. It didn't happen. I suppose the overall Topre feel was a bit softer--which I attribute largely to the keycaps actually. But it was very, very close. And then when I consider the 850 is low profile, has a nice built in wrist rest, has a flatter layout which makes it easier to touch type........I mean. I think the K850 wins. I kind of like typing on it more than the Topres.
I think Topre is for people who secretly love the soft feel of rubber domes but can't face loving the same kind of keyboards their mom uses or the jerk in their IT department gave them. But what if you could get that key feel but it costs $200--$300? And what if almost no one IRL has ever heard of them? Now you've separated yourself from the unwashed massed. Topre sells exclusivity. But maybe not much more.
The Niz Plum sounds like water flowing from rain gutters after a big storm.
Can't tell if that's a good thing or not lol
@@SwitchandClickOfficial It's good thing. I'm thinking of buying this. I need a nice compact keyboard for the desk and something that I can use without having to constantly hit mute on the Jabra speaker phone for conference calls.
how does the 55g compare to a cherry mx red?
Much heavier
@@SwitchandClickOfficial do you think 30g will be closer to a mx red?
@@knightGunners78 My daily driver for the past year has been a Leopold MX Silent Red board. I just ordered the 55g Topre and will give you a comparison once received.
The amount of your head that's being cut off in the shot is really throwing me off. I had to stop the video to check and make sure my page wasn't partially scrolled or something.
Other than that, good job on the comparison. Useful information throughout.
Yeah, I'm still getting the hang of the new backdrop, I'll make sure next video my head is in it
Nice review..Where you bought your keyboard and mouse deskmats/pads please?sorry.please understand.thank you🙂
Desk mats come from various places, check out kit.co/bvan1412/our-budget-deskmats
Switch and Click thank you
the nizz brooo im in love with the sound
Nice to know that I don't have to sacrifice an arm and a leg for a electrostatic capacitive key switch. Great video!
I personally have the same thoughts with topre so it’s cool to know that I’m not the only one, it really just comes down to preference and there is no denying that it’s overpriced
I really like the Realforce R2 board, the feel of topre and the sturdy feel of the base feels good. Personally i prefer heavy switches compared to light switches, which is why I bought the 55g board when I was in Japan 2 years ago. It is easily the best tactile board I have ever typed on.
The only qualm I have with the board is the basic layout and lack of detachable cable.
Fair enough!
@@SwitchandClickOfficial Actually, another issue I find with the Realforce boards is the latency, polling and scan rate. They're pretty bad for gaming (especially rhythm games). I like the feel of typing on them but don't particularly enjoy gaming with them, so I use them mostly for coding.
Gaming was not an intended target audience by Realforce so I guess this is expected.
These sound so scratchy and sticky. The feel of this board I hope is worth the horrid sound.
I’m looking forward to this
I literally bought the niz 2021 and just got it. I hate how loud the spacebar is, you should try the smaller niz keyboards with the smaller spacebar. My friend has the mircro 84 and it sounds like a whole different keyboard on every key and has like 0 rattle on the stabilizers.
Niz told me to return mine through amazon but after seeing this video I think thats just how loud these spacebars are on the 2021 87 models. Gonna probably try the Micro versions next with the small space bar.
EDIT: I was wrong, niz said my spacebar was broke somehow and to exchange it. I exchanged it and it sounds amazing with basically no rattle.
The question, do u like the feel or the sound more when considering Topre keyboard... I guess.
I recently got a full niz plum. I'm planning on getting a tkl niz plum since I'm doing less data entries these days.
After watching this video I bought the niz plum! It was my favorite keyboard for a year or two but then just recently the space bar just stops registering key presses once every 5 strokes or so 😑 it's very upsetting
After I tried a dozen or so options, I settled on Topre and haven't changed for over 11 years. I use it for everywhere, sitting indoors, dusty places, outdoors, cold, warm, patio. Keyboards with lots of lube are a sign they may not work optimally in hairy homes. If you have pets, Topre's it.
You need to try a vintage BTC dome and slider board. Feels great to type on.
Any experience with spacebar foam mods? Just got an Atom 68 and everything sounds great except for the spacebar.
I've tried but it always makes a crinkly noise
Ironically im looking at this video because my cat pissed on my R2 and fried it (none of the top rows work unfortunately, even after the isopropyl treatment) and i'm looking at a replacement. I honestly feel like my partner just died haha. Im very tempted to get the Niz after watching this, i love the bump of it. I guess its worth mentioning, so, for those who are thinking about Topre switches, just be very very prepared for how tedious the disassembly process is if you ever need to get to the PCB, while a testament to how well built these boards are, putting it back together properly can be a task that takes about an hour or so (especially if you want to clean the entire board after a spill for example).
Worth asking actually - what’s the difference between these and the micro82 boards I see around the same price point? Xx
perfect board vid
I just watched this video for the 5th time. I'm waiting on my niz keyboard and should be here in a couple days. I can't stop watching niz videos !
Hope you enjoy it!
Just a clarification. Epomaker is a distributor of NIz. So it's not an Epomaker NIz Plum.
So much rattle though dang.
Omg she sounds so different in old videos
87UW55 for 4 years