What is a DUSSACK Sword? Introduction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2021
- I was asked by a Patron to speak about the dussack (a type of sword) and that's a big topic - here I attempt to give a little introduction mostly for those people who aren't really sure what a dussack is.
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Just to add some points from Bohemia: "tesák" (can be translated to English as either "fang" or maybe "chopper") is in Bohemia often used for anything from long one bladed knife used for hunting and/or fighting but also for falchion or langmesser type blades (often with simple handle nuckle bow or D guard made from the same piece of metal as tang)
and also basic short sword used by poor people (usualy single edged slightly curved)
"Fang" is cooler. Just imagine having a collection of fang swords.
I guess the Polish term "tasak" comes form the same source. I have enconutered it in historical context to describe short, heavy-bladed sidearms of non-melee troops (artillery crews, engineers etc) around the Napoleonic period (if memory serves me).
In modern Polish, the term is applied to a kitchen implement - a heavy chopping knife / cleaver (also, to a butcher's axe).
@@mateuszwisniewski3877 it is possible, from Napoleonic era onwards we used "tesák" for this kind of weapons as well.
Polish "tasak" is a borrowing from Old Czech..
Regular polish continuation of proto Slavic "tesati" is obviously "ciosać". The analogous formation to "tesák" is thus "ciosak" or "ciesak" and those are names for kinds of adzes or pickaxes. Both words were seemingly somehow rare.
I was just thinking about this a few minutes ago. It seems Matt can read minds and travel through time.
Düssack can be derived etymologically from the Slavic word "tesak", meaning blade, or more precisely, some sharp implement used to hew stuff (like wood).
In Polish it would be "tasak" which would mean a meat cleaver :)
(or people)
The word is used in Polish language up till today. It is perfectly understandable. Usage, however, is somewhat restricted to the fine chopping of small pieces of wood at the carpenter's, or (frequently) meat at the butcher's shop. Every Polish child understands it even today.
@@demezon6572 In modern Russian it is usually used to describe some large, fairly bombastic knife, like a bowie, but single edged, not a dagger. It usually does not refer to a meat cleaver or a carpenter's tool.
in slovak its more like a claw or a sharp teeth
Sooooo gooood pronunciation of tesák, Matt! I am from Czechia and I have to say well done!
The word Tesák in Czech means Fang :)
and in polish we have Tasak which means "chopper" :)
As a wood worker, the "knuckle bow" on a wooden practice weapon (as depicted) might have more to do with strengthening the "blade" by providing additional material at the transition from grip to blade, i.e. the junction where the forces will be greatest- especially as you say, handguards were not yet in vogue. Just a thought.
The dussack to me is strangely loveable. It's shape is sometimes doofy, sometimes terrifying. The leather ones that a friend of mine owns have seen heavy use, and dussacks will always remind me of my first timid steps into HEMA, about a year ago.
I love it because it sounds funny :)
curiosity trivia time: as you probably know there is no sources for 16-17 century Polish sabre. Many people see missing link in dussack sources. You can have some basic idea how early sabre was used thanks to dussack sources.
I note the wooden versions you showed historical images are curved. That would go a log way to help explain the similar usage style to later sabers.
The rounded business ends remind me of the fact that the term "waster" can also apply to a simple wooden cudgel used as a weapon in combat rather than for practice.
Finally! I have a Basket-Hilted Cutlass that was obviously an evolution of the Tessack/Dussack and I wanted some content to go with it. 😊
dussack is my favorite sword, just got a custom from Kvetun Armory. Incredible sword.
I did some investigation of the art because I had always been suspect that all of the training dussacks were so short. The suspicion started because of looking at plate O.
My methodology was simple, I went through the art with calipers and I measured all of the woodcuts of the fencers that had their arm and sword parallel with the view plane. I measured from the palm of the hand to the ball of the shoulder. And then I measured from the start of the blade to the point of the blade.
I routinely found that the lengths matched (See caveat below.) The length is an important detail because if The swords are shorter the geometry of the bind changes, even more importantly, the tactical decisions change. If you are attacking with a much shorter sword, then grappling becomes much more important in your tactical decision tree. Meyer does say that he prefers not to grapple with dusack (I certainly do though 😏) in plate O you can clearly see that their palms are even and the tips of both swords are past the center of each other's heads.
The next step of my research was to find the heights of men from that time period in Germany a nd northern Europe. I was actually able to find this information and that mode was 5'9. This is actually common with today. So then I measured from the ball joint of the shoulder to the center of the palm and lo and behold the value that I found was right about 29.5" in.
And so that is why my custom dusack has a 30-in blade and that anyone who tells me that is wrong can GTFO.
Enough for the caveat I mentioned before. There were in fact some dussacks in the art that were the shorter length, however, the fascinating thing there was that those ones were obviously a different construction methodology and one that you frequently find available. The longer ones were made out of a single piece that does look like wood. The shorter ones which have a length in common with the most widely available training dusack today, appear to have a leather blade fastened over a core of wood but leaving the wood handle bare.
Also, as a counterpoint to something you said, Meyer at no point says that the swords being used in the long sword section are "just a training version" nor does he say that about the rapier, or the dagger, or the quarter staff, halberd, spear, or anything including the dusack. So why should we assume that when he said the dosach is the foundation of all single-handed weapons that he meant just the training weapon.
Either way, all of that research that I did was moot because afterwards I found this.
fencingatl.com/blog/2018/8/9/the-tessak-of-norway#:~:text=The%20Tessak%20is%20a%20basket,on%20the%20already%20popular%20Messer.
In his 1600 treatise Meyer is quite clearly saying that the Dussack is the customary weapon of germans. He also says that the Rappier is a new fashion-weapon among the germans, originating from italy. The reason for him treating the rappier as well is that he finds it a very useful and graceful weapon. There is also some inconsistent explanation of his saying that among germans thrusting is only reserved for your most hated enemies and even then its questionable. That doesn't stop him though from encouraging thrusts with any weapon though...
I've heard it said that thrusts were banned in civilian combat, with a street fight expected to only be cuts, to try and reduce lethality. With an unconditional ban on thrusts. Anyone caught thrusting would be treated harshly. Although it's possible this was not applied evenly in practice.
It could be tongue in cheek, "don't you ever do this ... 😉..." Or it could be that if you were in a street fight with a foreigner, you need to know how to thrust because they will be trying to stab you.
If someone is literally trying to kill you, you will resort to any available method to incapacitate your foe.
There might, perhaps, be differences in training where slashes were preferred to thrusts for legal reasons, and these would of course influence people’s fighting style and habits.
cough cough meyer died in the 1571 or so. His treatises past that point would be copies of his 1570 version or ealier drafts.
@@josephdedrick9337 Its the publication date of the second edition print, done posthumously.
Honestly, the "munition dussack" is the most interesting due to its simplicity. A piece of metal hammered into a blade where the tang is bent into a knuckle guard.
I don't think there's any contradiction in Meyer's statement; his rappier is just dussack techniques applied and adapted to this newfangled foreign sword, so it's actually an example of how the dussack operates as the basis for all single handed swords.
@Arigato Cat I think he may simply have meant that the dussack is good for training one-handed swordfighting in general, so doing stuff with it can advance your skills in rappier even though there is an additional more specific trainer for that system.
Edit: Meyer meant, that is.
But the rapier was last.... So that doesn't quite work
@@strydyrhellzrydyr1345 Like, the last thing covered in the book? That only makes more sense then.
Another branch of evolution for the dussack is the hunting sword. Tessak (Tesák) means "Fang" in Czech, which refers to a big knife of some sort, this can be anything within the general shape and size of a bowie knife up to a hunting sword. The connection to it is there even before it gets its characteristic shape of an all steel curved dussack.
I am german. I think in german language countries Langes Messer, Jagdschwert and Dussak have survived as ,Hirschfänger'. The traditional style Hirschfänger, with similarities to noted long knives, are still produced, but today more used for huntsmen's ceremonies or as a honourfull gift/ present.
Ochs HEMA Clubs loves Dussacks and you Matt! Thanks for your content.
One of my favorite swords types. Thank you Matt. Looking forward to seeing more on this topic.
Cheers!
Thank you for this video, Matt. My group trains Meyer so it’s nice to see you focus on one of his most iconic weapons. Can’t wait for more on dussack.
You have hinted at this topic in the past. I think this messer to dusack to saber idea makes a lot of sense. Great video.
Tesak is also used in Serbian for a heavy machete like short sword used predominantly by army engineers and artillery crews, there are examples showing as late as WW1.
You can see very pointed langmessers in froissart battle of crecy painting, pommel cap and knucklebow with riveted wood handle, maybe the soldiers asked the smith to modify the blade for warfare before they go on campaign.
Matt I’ve been waiting for this video. All the videos I see on Dussacks just show and talk about the leather wrapped sparring one.
I would love to learn more about dussacks and their techniques! Great video!
Thank you for this video, Dussacks are my favorite type of sword next the Falchions.
Thank you very much for dussack! As for messer-sabre fencing style progression, I think that Sienewski polish saber school trying to do something like this. Not a total medieval, not total XVIII centuries sabre.
That is terribly interesting. I'm looking forward to more discussion.
Thank you for clarifying, I've heard you mention the dussak in other videos but it's nice to have an actual definition.
Just the tip method of introducing sword types. Love it
I agree wholeheartedly. Great first video.
Very interesting something to consider in selecting a sword. A good video 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Love dussacks/cuttoes/stortas! And that Atrim dussack is absolutely gorgeous!
I would be very interested in a video on the last bit: on how the use of the messer developed into that of the dussack and that into the use of the backword and saber!
I'm super curious in regards to golden age Muslim treatises for Alfanges / Al-khanjal, would love if "those guys" did a revival and translation of their sources, so we could compare to more recent ones with sabers and dussacks.
I believe Americans would call it an "everyday carry". 🤔
A certain Aussie from a movie called 'Crocodile Dundee' would just call that blade a knife.
@@imhigh0013 you misspelt "noife"... 😉
That's about right. Of course I usually carry five or so knives of different lengths and types.
This varies from when I'm in the country and when you I'm in the big cities, however I haven't benn to the city for about two years, since all the bullshit started.
Yes, I agree with the missing link comments about linking Messer to Dussack, then to Saber. I have thought a lot about it myself.
I was looking at the Bloss dussack only an hour ago. Mind reader! 😱
The Dussacks are clearly the older brother of the Cossacks, and so are their swords.
I am fairly certain that is incorrect. Cossack shashka originated in the caucuses and probably has linage going back to Iranian and other eastern designs, not German. In general the Cossacks were heavily influenced by the east. In-fact to this day you see many Cossacks in places like Ukraine practicing with and using in re-enactments shamshir and Hungarian type sabers as well, I don't think I have ever seen them use anything German.
@@-Zevin- It was just a joke based on the similarities in their name.
Ah, BUT, "C" comes before "D"!
@@Intranetusa Hey still a good opportunity to drop some Cossack knowledge. Eastern European weapons need more love.
@@-Zevin- True. Eastern European history is underrated compared to the more popularized Western European history.
Very nice!
Great video, Matt! What was that saber that you were holding during the video? I looks very similar to the Austro-Hungarian M1845 that I recent bought from you, with a different guard.
I almost just bought a Dussack style sword but couldn't find any available in my price range so I opted to get a nice 1917 style cutlass that was on sale.
I was just looking at a cutlass that looks just like that sword. Kingston Arms Cutlass. A beautiful sword
Dussacks is the start of Sabre fencing with its roots in the Messer and connection to the Backsword. The Dussack itself took the direction of becoming Hangers and Cutlasses.
Wow, a sword I own made a cameo in this video.
So what are your impressions of the Kingston Angus Trim "Cutlass" Falchion? (Supposedly the sword is a sort of Frankenstein's Monster of parts he had laying around the workshop, but I have seen pictures of 17th century Storta that look similar).
Tesat' (rus), Tesaty (ukr) - is a verb in most slavic languages. It means, - 'to adze' or 'to remove outer layer of something in the process of carving'. Tesak was a part of army pioneers equipment. I'd say, for me, Tesak is, - a blade weapon that is commonly used as a tool for chopping and carving wood.
Yes, exactly (see my longer comment to be found above). With a tesak/tasak you chop - no quite "carve", but fine chop - the mostly outer layer of a wooden trunk, or meat from the bone of a larger animal, like wild boar, a bear or a bull.
What are your thoughts on the so-called "sinclair saber" i.e. English or Scottish dussacks? Are there any notable differences? Also why might it be that we see the kind of complex hilts on broadswords, backswords, and dussacks kind of disappear in the late 1700s on sabers then come back on the later sabers (at least in England) for a similar level of protection? At least on the swords carried on foot.
'Sinclair sabre' is just the local name given to dussacks. Sinclair was a Scottish mercenary who got beaten up and captured by a bunch of Norwegian farmers with dussacks, and he he brought the design back with him.
@@joadams8022 yes, I'm aware. But I'd expect there might be some regional or local differences. Like frankly most swords.
@@markcarico546 Nothing specific to the Sinclair sabre, although there is a lot of variation in dussacks in general. It's just a relabelling, not a variant like for example Mortuary swords compared to other backswords.
@@joadams8022 Sinclair was killed at the Battle of Kringen so he would not have been able to bring them back from Norway.
Very nice
Is there an advantage for a clipped point? Does it penetrate armor better than a straight point or better for point alignment?
I don't really like the implication here that the wooden dussack was the training weapon for the messer. If you look at, for instance, Paurenfeyndt, his manual illustrates wooden swords that look a lot more like messers, and he calls them messers, while stating they can be used to train for the tessack. By the time Meyer comes around, no one's using messers any more, everyone's got either a longsword or some kind of complex-hilted single-handed sword. I also don't see much support for dussacks being leather. People in the past seem to have had little concern for fighting with wooden weapons, not to mention the obvious use of blunt steel longswords in sportive contexts.
they were certainly made out of wood, but the weapons depicted in meyer are easist to construct when you fit a leather sleeve over a wooden core. This, practically, means that they are much more robust and easy to practise with.
Justifiable either way.
I would say, that by the time of Meyer the longsword wasn't nearly as popular as it was once-- though there's a lot of context necessary. Popular amongst burghers in Germany and Switzerland who wanted a fencing weapon? Surely. But not everyone was packing one by the late 1560s~1570s. It had fallen out of favour with most by the mid 1500s.
The more popular weapons of the age would've certainly been single handed swords like the rapier, especially in the military context considering the advancements in warfare. There were of course exceptions to the rule and none of this is universally true.
I'd reason the dussack would be-- as Mr. Easton suggested-- largely a tool for training with a sword like messers (if not specifically messers)... or other single-edged single handed swords.
@@Xephisto Look up Pieter Bruegel the Elder's painting "Massacre of the Innocents" and check out what swords people are carrying. It's about 50% longswords, 50% single-handed swords, matching Meyer's claim that the longsword is the most popular weapon amongst Germans (though Bruegel was Dutch). And this painting was made about five years before Meyer's 1570 manual. And as for dussacks, eh, in modern usage the word refers both to the wooden training weapons and to a specific type of single-handed weapon that was in use around Meyer's time, and there's a pretty clear link to the tessack which is also a steel sword, so I don't see much reason to believe the term was intended solely to refer to the training weapon (which did in fact resemble a dussack more than it did a messer, though earlier versions did look like messers and were called messers).
Where did you get that Storta from, and will you do a review on it? I need it in my life.
Do the differences between old messer and dussack include the usage of predominant passing footwork vs more linear fw in the latter?
2:29 wow, an accurate medieval depiction of Klaus Kinski in Aguirre - The Wrath of God :)
In Polish tasak is still used as word for chopper mainly kitchen chopper/cleaver but it is also used as word for falchions (langmesser blade with sword grip) while word for langmesser (but also any big knife) is kord. Lot of folks in Polish HEMA think Polish sabre evolved from dussack treatises it sort of has connection with evolution of sabre in Poland we see in art.
I didn't agree with everything but this was well done.
Where did you buy the Falchion in this video, its a very nice piece 👌
I saw a sword like this on the belt of some rather common looking guy in a painting by Bruegel, depicting some kind of festival I think
that is a beautiful sword
Hey Matt can you talk about the weapons and battles of vlad tepes against the ottomans weapons?
It would be even cooler to get a video about that beefy rifle officers sabre
@schologladitoria where did you get that nice Lange messer?
I was shopping around for sabres and arrived at the same thought.
As an axe man I didn't even care one iota about this subject before.
But Matt makes it interesting anyway.
This goes beyond being a great teacher. This is the mark of a popularizer of a field of knowledge. I'm talking Carl Sagan/Neil DeGrasse Tyson-level skill.
"Oh, pish posh, sure Matt's great, but don't even start with that hyperbole," some might think.
Just give him time...
Any suggestions of sources when it comes to axes?
hi matt
What kind of side swords did troops use with 2-handed polearms as their main weapon? In the late Middle Ages in Switzerland practically only 2-handed polearms were used, do these troops also increasingly use long swords and other 2-handed weapons as side arms? I haven't seen many shields in museums or on pictures in switzerland.
Katzbalger
Daggers and short swords (eg, katzbalger) were popular, since the formations were dense and by the time you were using sidearms, you were probably near or in grappling range.
That saber you showed in contrast to the dussak, what model is it?
what is that axe over your right shoulder? the one with the black handle and the inward curvature to the blade
It is interesting how much coarser Swedish sword terminology is when com pared to English. All shorter European single edge swords, from the medieval falchion to the late cutlasses, with messers an dussacks and everything in between, are just called "huggare" in Swedish. If necessary one can of course use the same terms used in English to clarify, but it is much less common and sounds pretty weird.
Where do hangers fit in with dussacks, messers, factions etc?
I'm highly amused by the timing of this video, as I just started writing at story set in the 1630's, and the protagonist carries his grandfather's lange messer, with the hilt and grip reworked to resemble a dussack.
Not enough material in the grip to rework into a dussack/tesak
@@johnjacomb2645 Wouldn't be too hard. Replace the crossguard with a knuckle bow style, then replace the handle scales.
If you really wanted to, you could figure a way to put a pommel on it, but you'd need to fix it into place with a peened peg through it sideways instead of peening the end of the tang.
@@okami36 but that's not really a true dussack/tesak, originally it was a poor man's "saber" so the knuckle bow as you say is part of the sword grip, it follows round and creates the knuckle bow, hence why I say there's not enough material
@@johnjacomb2645 The knuckle bow is part of the crossguard, which is a separate piece of metal from the blade and the tang. Take one off, but a new one on. If you were thinking of taking the old one off and bending it to try to make the bow, then I'd agree, not enough material. Also, I said the converted lange messer resembled a dussack, not that it actually was one.
Can you talk about the mongolian saber and how they may have influenced things?
Wow! this was actually brief video (not 20 min "brief") :D
Unusual, intimidating, strangely attractive weapon. I like.
My favoured term is "Short pointy choppy choppy."
That's a sweet looking patu in the background
in Bohemian, meaning in Czech language Tesák, form of Palaš. There is a weapon known as Český (Bohemian) Tesák and Chodský Palaš.
was the design of the dussack inspired by early eastern European and Central Asian sabres?
So, basically is dussack a transitional sword between lange messer and saber? And is possible with dussack BEGIN drill and exercise to go to the infantry saber???
Side question: Has Elmslie published his typology in a book? I know about it from various discussions on the web but I've never actually seen any references to written work. It would be interesting to read.
No, although a draft was published in 'Das Schwert - Gestalt und Gedanke' (the exhibition catalogue, not the later collection of essays). As far as I know, man's still working on it and has wish list of antiques that need examining.
I suspect it will end up unfinished and unpublished with a death curse on anyone who tries to publish it posthumously.
What is the purpose behind the T shaped blade on the polearm above Matt's right shoulder?
I have heard of the dussack repeatedly, I've used trainer dussacks, but I've never actually seen a real one. I've only seen that image of that crappy one with the guard and blade forged from one piece of metal. But I've never actually just looked at a proper one, I just never thought of it till now.
Does anyone know where Matt's dussack comes from? Looks beautiful
At some point he will have to do a fight review regarding the glorious moulinets of General Grievous.
Do you have any references to the word dussack being used to refer to a real steel edged weapon?
How were they made? They look like they were cut from a pattern. How many blacksmiths were required to arm an invasion force? Please do a podcast about production costs and scale. Thanks for your uploads.
4:15 Well, in polish Tasak, witch is used for that type of sword also mean meat cleaver.
Hello, where did you get the messer 1:39? Thanks.
small mistake noted on 4:40 ish. the french word couteaux is not the one cutlass originates from, it originates from a parent word which is coutelas,
What is the picture at 4:10? and what is it used for?
Does the Dussack use asymmetrical (interlocking) fullers?
I love that Dussack. I haven't seen it before. What is it? It's one of the coolest swords I have seen on your channel other than some sabers that I wouldn't ever be able to afford.
I believe it’s the Kingston Arms Atrim-designed Cutlass.
Kingston Arms Cutlass, designed by Angus Trim. Kingston Arms (aka Hanwei) are usually crap but Angus' input probably makes it worth having.
Years ago, when I was studying the Dussack in Joachim Meyer with the ol' Higgins Armory Museum/Sword Guild, I had thought the word Dussack/Tussack might have been related to "Tusk", and had pondered the idea if they would have been made of "ivory" or, well, tusk. (since there's baleen bayonets for fencing/sparring in 1850s and 1860s context) But anyway, it's an interesting weapon.
Tesák means also fang in Czech. Fang, tusk, similar. Other option is that it came from the word tesat, "to hew". Tesař, the one who does this, is a carpenter.
@@richardaubrecht2822 Tesla...
@@EattinThurs61 Tesla Is a carpenter's tool, yes.
@@richardaubrecht2822 : not a tool, tesla = CARPENTER himself. I've given you a +1 regardless. Yoy are a man of understanding and deep knowledge.
Cf. in Polish "cieśla" (tesla) = a carpenter
@@demezon6572 In Czech, tesla is another word for teslice - adze in English.
man this stuff is interesting
Mr Easton, Or anyone else. Do you know of any historical evidence or examples of old swords being updated to suit more modern times, I'm just wondering if any medieval falchions or early langmessers say 15th C, were converted/rehilted and turned into 16th C early Dussage/ Tessak/ Dussack? Are the blades similar enough to do this and would it have been done do you recon? hmmmm
Whilst I've not heard of a falchion being reworked, I am aware of several sideswords being refitted arming swords and similarly of one specific Bronze Age Greek sword featuring much later hilt furniture.
However to do so to a falchion or messer would require a significant rework of the hilt to accommodate the knuckle bow drawn from the tang; it would be far simpler to change the crossguard for a similar result.
Assuming it was not worn down from use, some blade types remained in use throughout much of the medieval period, which could hypothetically be rehilted to suit later contexts.
that is one fine sword.
"Tasak" in Polish means cleaver (for example meat cleaver), but it can also mean a type of sword, though it's more common to refer to those by "pałasz" (backsword).
Tasak is not the same as pałasz, nor were they associated with each other in the period AFAIK.
The meaning of "pałasz" is indeed palash/backsword, though it generally was semantically close to "saber", see sabers being called "pałasz krzywy/pochyły', literally "bent, crooked pałasz".
Tasak was something distinct, and it most likely covered western falchions, stortas and messers indeed.
Have you heard about the Crusader sword found off the coast of Israel? I bet you would love to examine it in detail once it is cleaned up.
I wonder how well this type of weapon would have worked in bushcraft/camp work tools. Similar to a long machete?
It's a common mistake but it is langES Messer and langES Schwert in German. Not Langmesser and Lamgschwert. The "long" is a divided adjective in this context.
Speaking of civilian sidearms and city laws against carrying a sword... If a person was traveling from town to town and came to a city with a prohibition against wearing a sword, would they be required to hand over the sword before passing the gate, or would it be acceptable to keep in a bundle as long as it was not to hand?
C'mon, you are so out of whack...
Dussack -> tussach (if I hear it correctly) -> tasak. hmmm have sense. Tasak is Polish world for chopper (knife) and falchion (witch is sometimes called half-saber).
What's the length and weight?
Meyer uses dussack as a basis for learning rappier. He literally says it in the intro to dussack.