Great testing! Great information - would still love to see dynamic testing procedure developed in the future. Where the rope would move over the sharp edge. Maybe this machine could be modified to quickly pull the rope over that sharp disk while the disk spins at the same time - while increasing the load from 0 to max load and measure when it breaks :D
If you watch part 1 of the series, you'll see that the disc does spin and they measure the length of the disc travel before the rope fails :). Love all of your videos btw!
The test tries to make it comparable. A dynamic scenario will not help with this. However, we also did tests of course if the results match the practice. However, 50% of the documented accidents where rope failed are static scenarios... And the real number is probably much bigger as what usually gets documented are sport related accidents not working at height ones...
Great video! Could you do a more decision-relevant comparison? For example: How does a singlerope(80kg) compare to two twin/half ropes (80kg). Your theory implies a massive win for the twin/half rope as the weight on each individual twin/half rope is only half (40kg). I think this would be a highly relevant information for alpine climbing and alpine rapelling!
LOVED the details in this video! Can't wait for the next part in the series! (And also very curious how the Swift Protect compares in cut resistance in this scenario).
Hi ! Did u also tried to do some tests about ropes which is e.g. 10 years old ? Could be quite common in half/ twin ropes which is not used regurarly but sometimes in a year ... I would like to see comparison between new/ 5 years / 10 years lets say slightly used
Okay nice so when I abseil when solo toproping on 2 fixed strains I am s lot safer than abseiling on a single strain with a grigri I think about getting the swift tho bc I am very scared about rope cutting tho
You doubled the weight but only increased the diameter of the rope by a little. Maybe a whole set of tests with various weights and a little more variation in the rope diameter would be a lot more informative.
We got 25% increased cut section and only some 16ish% gain in cut resistance. On the other Hand, 50% decreased weight gave use more than 4x the cut resistance.
What is the cutting length for the 10mm rope loaded with 80kg? Did you repeat these tests a few times? You can't draw scientific conclusions with a single data set, simply because you assume your machine has good reproducibility!
Your conclusions do not seem to follow from your results. The graph indicates that smaller ropes do not allow for cut resistance improvements with decreased loading, but thicker ropes do. Therefore, a safety-oriented climber should BOTH reduce load AND use thicker rope. This is a thoughtful experimental setup, so I want to give benefit of the doubt, but I don’t understand why you didn’t come to that same conclusion.
Hi there! Thanks for the hint! The "dude" is actually Tommy Caldwell using our Giga Jul belay device, which you can use as an assisted braking device also in abseiling mode. To abseil from a single but solid (!) bolt is sometimes necessary. Hope this helps!
@@edelrid Ich besitze zwar kein Giga Jul aber leider muss ich sagen, dass eine unterstütze Bremse auch nicht hilft, wenn man die Kontrolle verliert. Dies habe ich mit einigen Kletterkollegen und qualifizierten Klettertrainern getestet. Benutzt wurde dafür das Alpine UP welches auf einem ähnlichen Prinzip funktioniert wie das Giga Jul...(Karabiner klemmt das Seil ein) Öffnet man den Klemmmechanismus zu weit, wodurch man zwangsläufig die Kontrolle verlieren kann, so würde das Gerät nicht wieder von alleine blockieren, da Hitze und Kinetische Energie dafür sorgen, dass die "Bremskraftunterstützung" nicht mehr ausreicht. Ist eine Bremsunterstützung beim Ablassen jetzt sinnvoll? Ja sie bringt ein plus an Sicherheit, ist aber nicht das "Nonplusultra", da ein normaler Tube im Doppelseil mit Handschuhen ebenfalls eine Menge Reibung erzeugt und man auch mit einem Giga Jul schnell die Kontrolle verlieren kann. --> Prusik ist meiner Meinung nach am Besten... P.S. wenn man die Kontrolle verloren hat, braucht man etwa 7m, gute Handschuhe und eine Menge Handkraft um sich wieder zufangen. *Also nicht nachmachen!!!...* Wir haben uns *hintersichert* und zusätzlich eine Bouldermatte verwendet, falls etwas schief geht. Mit dem einzelnen Bohrhacken kann ich Edelrid zustimmen. Manchmal erfordert es, dass Risiko einzugehen und sich an einem Bohrhacken abzulassen. Zumal das in dem Video ein Klebehacken zu sein scheint, der sehr sicher ist... Ich persönlich verzichte beim Abseilen auch auf eine Prusik. Wenn es die Situation erfordert (z.B. Mehrseillänge spät in der Nacht) verwende ich natürlich schon eine Prusik.
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Great testing! Great information - would still love to see dynamic testing procedure developed in the future. Where the rope would move over the sharp edge. Maybe this machine could be modified to quickly pull the rope over that sharp disk while the disk spins at the same time - while increasing the load from 0 to max load and measure when it breaks :D
If you watch part 1 of the series, you'll see that the disc does spin and they measure the length of the disc travel before the rope fails :). Love all of your videos btw!
The test tries to make it comparable. A dynamic scenario will not help with this. However, we also did tests of course if the results match the practice. However, 50% of the documented accidents where rope failed are static scenarios... And the real number is probably much bigger as what usually gets documented are sport related accidents not working at height ones...
Great video! Could you do a more decision-relevant comparison? For example: How does a singlerope(80kg) compare to two twin/half ropes (80kg). Your theory implies a massive win for the twin/half rope as the weight on each individual twin/half rope is only half (40kg). I think this would be a highly relevant information for alpine climbing and alpine rapelling!
Thank you for the video. Great knowledge to possess. And great presentation by Philippe!
LOVED the details in this video! Can't wait for the next part in the series! (And also very curious how the Swift Protect compares in cut resistance in this scenario).
th-cam.com/video/g3JGe6OKKkk/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/J6mbkuTHvyg/w-d-xo.html
Very good information. I’ll reconsider doing simul rappels in the future.
I would like to see the other cut/abrasion machine/test ideas Edelrid had.
Super interesting!
Great video, really useful information thank you.
Hi ! Did u also tried to do some tests about ropes which is e.g. 10 years old ?
Could be quite common in half/ twin ropes which is not used regurarly but sometimes in a year ...
I would like to see comparison between new/ 5 years / 10 years lets say slightly used
Okay nice so when I abseil when solo toproping on 2 fixed strains I am s lot safer than abseiling on a single strain with a grigri
I think about getting the swift tho bc I am very scared about rope cutting tho
Even better -- rappel one by one. The top is not running over a edge as long as you don't pendulum sideways on the rappel.
You doubled the weight but only increased the diameter of the rope by a little. Maybe a whole set of tests with various weights and a little more variation in the rope diameter would be a lot more informative.
We got 25% increased cut section and only some 16ish% gain in cut resistance. On the other Hand, 50% decreased weight gave use more than 4x the cut resistance.
What is the cutting length for the 10mm rope loaded with 80kg?
Did you repeat these tests a few times?
You can't draw scientific conclusions with a single data set, simply because you assume your machine has good reproducibility!
Give that guy a comb !
Your conclusions do not seem to follow from your results. The graph indicates that smaller ropes do not allow for cut resistance improvements with decreased loading, but thicker ropes do. Therefore, a safety-oriented climber should BOTH reduce load AND use thicker rope. This is a thoughtful experimental setup, so I want to give benefit of the doubt, but I don’t understand why you didn’t come to that same conclusion.
Are you seeing the same graph as everyone else?
Maybe skip the end shot of the dude abseiling on a single bolt and no prusik
Hi there! Thanks for the hint! The "dude" is actually Tommy Caldwell using our Giga Jul belay device, which you can use as an assisted braking device also in abseiling mode. To abseil from a single but solid (!) bolt is sometimes necessary. Hope this helps!
@@edelrid Ich besitze zwar kein Giga Jul aber leider muss ich sagen, dass eine unterstütze Bremse auch nicht hilft, wenn man die Kontrolle verliert. Dies habe ich mit einigen Kletterkollegen und qualifizierten Klettertrainern getestet. Benutzt wurde dafür das Alpine UP welches auf einem ähnlichen Prinzip funktioniert wie das Giga Jul...(Karabiner klemmt das Seil ein)
Öffnet man den Klemmmechanismus zu weit, wodurch man zwangsläufig die Kontrolle verlieren kann, so würde das Gerät nicht wieder von alleine blockieren, da Hitze und Kinetische Energie dafür sorgen, dass die "Bremskraftunterstützung" nicht mehr ausreicht.
Ist eine Bremsunterstützung beim Ablassen jetzt sinnvoll? Ja sie bringt ein plus an Sicherheit, ist aber nicht das "Nonplusultra", da ein normaler Tube im Doppelseil mit Handschuhen ebenfalls eine Menge Reibung erzeugt und man auch mit einem Giga Jul schnell die Kontrolle verlieren kann. --> Prusik ist meiner Meinung nach am Besten...
P.S. wenn man die Kontrolle verloren hat, braucht man etwa 7m, gute Handschuhe und eine Menge Handkraft um sich wieder zufangen. *Also nicht nachmachen!!!...* Wir haben uns *hintersichert* und zusätzlich eine Bouldermatte verwendet, falls etwas schief geht.
Mit dem einzelnen Bohrhacken kann ich Edelrid zustimmen. Manchmal erfordert es, dass Risiko einzugehen und sich an einem Bohrhacken abzulassen. Zumal das in dem Video ein Klebehacken zu sein scheint, der sehr sicher ist... Ich persönlich verzichte beim Abseilen auch auf eine Prusik. Wenn es die Situation erfordert (z.B. Mehrseillänge spät in der Nacht) verwende ich natürlich schon eine Prusik.