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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- In the previous episode of our cut resistance series, we learned that diameter alone doesn't reliably indicate a rope's cut resistance. This raises the question: Do any other rope specifications provide useful insights into cut resistance? How can users choose equipment to mitigate the significant risk of rope failure?
In this episode, we explore additional rope characteristics to see if they offer clues about cut resistance.
If we don't find answers here, it suggests two things: First, the varying cut resistance among ropes likely stems from different constructions that users can't easily detect. Second, it underscores the need for a standardized test to reliably measure and communicate this characteristic to users.
The links mentioned in this video are:
A detailed video explaining the testing method:
Cut Resistance of Ropes: Part 1 | EDELRID Knowledge Base
• Cut Resistance of Rope...
The previous episode researching the relevance of the diameter of a rope on its cut resistance:
Cut Resistance of Ropes: Part 2 | EDELRID Knowledge Base
• Cut Resistance of Rope...
Advance your knowledge through our Knowledge Base articles:
- Cut resistance of ropes: edelrid.com/eu...
- Constructional differences in ropes: edelrid.com/eu...
Philippe, I believe the cut resistance research that you and Edelrid are doing is the most important rope research being done today. Thank you!
That cutting length vs breaking strength graph looked suspiciously like a linear relationship for it to be dismissed so quickly.
That stands out to me as well. Makes it feel a little cherry picked and makes the jump to 160kg “to better compare” seem a little suspicious too. Perhaps the description links to a write up though where it is more clear. I am not say they had pre decided the conclusion and worked build evidence for that. Just that from the video alone some choices are a little clunky. Will look for a write up now
Hey, yes I agree that this particularly data set doesn't look as obviously dismissive as the others. However, we of course looked deeper into this (as well as many other facettes not even shown here in this video) and the conclusions still stands that tensile strength does not reliably influence the cut value. Otherwise, this would also have been really low hanging fruit for us and other rope manufacturer. Unfortunately it is not so easy as just to control tensile strength :) We could easily construct ropes with little tensile strength and a great cut value. Maybe an example for this could also be seen at 7:34 where we show the results of a 7mm cord with a much higher cut value then one 11mm rope. For sure the 11mm rope has a much higher tensile strength than the 7mm rope.
"In recent episodes" lol parts 1&2 were 4 years ago. But thanks for the awesome tech developments!
Better late than never!
Thanks for the informative video. Not knowing much about this topic, I was surprised by the degree to which rope construction can affect cut resistance. I would have expected the aramid sheath rope to easily come out on top.
Has there been any progress toward a new UIAA standard for cut resistance based on this testing methodology?
You have the data for this in a table or short write up? You seem to blow past a pretty decent correlation of strength and cut resistance but without knowing what was actually cut it isn’t possible to see if that is just a material difference. Making the data available would be very helpful and interesting
Please click on our video description :) there you'll find links to other videos within this series, as well as relevant Knowledge Base articles.
@@edelrid I did not see the raw data from this video saying what the rope construction or type was for each test here. Maybe a table like that has been added since or maybe I missed it? Where can I find the data from this specific test saying the rope or rope material and the cutting length? Basically where would I see the number you used to make the plots in this video?
@@andrewhunter6536 Hey, yes I agree that this particularly data set doesn't look as obviously dismissive as the others. However, we of course looked deeper into this (as well as many other facettes not even shown here in this video) and the conclusions still stands that tensile strength does not reliably influence the cut value. Otherwise, this would also have been really low hanging fruit for us and other rope manufacturer. Unfortunately it is not so easy as just to control tensile strength :) We could easily construct ropes with little tensile strength and a great cut value. Maybe an example for this could also be seen at 7:34 where we show the results of a 7mm cord with a much higher cut value then one 11mm rope. For sure the 11mm rope has a much higher tensile strength than the 7mm rope.
You werent going to name and shame but which rope was it that had the 120 cm cutting reistance ? was it a heat resistant rope ? They feel so much safer and well made.
We try to stay as neutral as possible within the knowledge base. This is not about products, it should be about a message. And the beautiful thing in this case here is, that we can also braid whatever we want to test ourselves here in our production. Then it is not a known product, but a test sample :)
And on another note: heat resistance is not a defined term, but a marketing buzz word. We will also publish something about this within this year I hope :)
@@philippewestenberger9087will you publish the data with info about the ropes? I asked in a top line comment with more reasons but thought to ask here too
more about this.Ripstop is good ,for static rops ? I like that 9,5 mm but all my descenders work 10 to 12 mm .
Just to make sure we all understand:
Episode 1:
At 1:59 you present a graph showing the leading cause of accidents to be of severed ropes due to sharp objects.
Episode 2:
You display your testing techniques to provide a sense of legitimacy for the following results in episode 3
Episode 3:
You display results of your testing, but refused to make a recommendation based upon said results
Conclusion: Politics
If my goal was to find the safest child car seat, then do crash tests on child car seats, then find the best one but refuse to mention the brand or model of the best performer, I have lost the reason for testing. You have basically said nothing that would help save lives even though your stated goal was to help save lives.
These series of videos had NOTHING to do with saving lives or helping the climbing community. This was a publicity stunt to bring your company business and hopefully sell products. Prove me wrong. Show us which brands and models you tested and which one was the best performer. I bet you won't.
Good that you want to clarify that, because in my opinion you are drawing the wrong conclusions ("for us all") out of this as well as missing the most important ones. But I try to explain in my words:
- Severed ropes due to sharp objects are not generally the leading cause of accidents, but sharp edges are the number one cause for all accidents due to a severed rope.
- The main take-away from Episode 2 is the influence of weight in a rope system on the overall safety regarding sharp edges. It shows, that independent on how safe your rope might be or not be, if you have the chance to lower the weight applied to it, the gains in safety will be much greater than any cut resistant characteristics of your rope.
- The intention of Episode 3 ist to show, that we urgently need a way to quantify cut resistance of ropes as currently climbers can not judge the safety of their rope in regards to sharp objects with the data they get provided.
And staying with that last point. Your shown frustration of not knowing what rope might be the best for your purposes in regards to sharp objects is exactly the point made. And we would like to change this. Maybe we just differ in the approach here. For one, we put 6 years of research into building a test-setup that now, for the first time, provides the possibility to quantify this characteristic for ropes (not as trivial as it might seem, but you saw Episode 1 to understand this). We also provide the cut values within our own rope range for all our dynamic ropes. So within our rope range you can perfectly see which would suit you best. And we also have used the knowledge we gained in those years of research to built products that are perfectly optimized towards the characteristic in question.
What this whole topic is to us here in the development though, is anything but a marketing stunt. We strongly believe in the importance of this proven number one risk for rope failure and will do anything that this is taken seriously and exactly not as a promotion. If we were to publish the values of all our competitors, it would not only be an unfair and disrespectful behaviour towards our competitors, it would then really look like and be a marketing stunt! Knowledge Base videos should be as neutral a source of information as possible and not a product marketing tool! The content comes from the development team, not from any of our commercial departments. And with this in mind, our approach in this matter is to talk about practical implications of our research as well as raise awareness for the urgent need of such a test. We are actively seeking dialogue with our competitors on a factual level and in a working group within the UIAA currently that has been set up specifically for this purpose, we are trying to develop a standard that will subsequently apply to everyone and which will make information about a cut value not only visible then but also objectively reliable for the user.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)