That's a good concept! However here sometimes we have wave days with (side)offshore wind and the wind is really weak close to shore where the shorebreak hits. So if your foil is not big enough you are not going to make it through the shorebreak.
Thanks Chris! Agreed! I have a question for you: I am curious how the Curve XL-H performs in waves. With my Fluid XL-H I have just enough speed to ride the waves here in the Mediterranean. The Curve-H must be a bit slower so that worries me, but I hear it is more playful and has much better stall speed. Are you enjoying it in waves? Pumping the Fluid-H is not super easy, so for downwinders (with a wing) it is challenging to use for me. How is pumping on the Curve-H? I bet it's easier. Have you tried doing a wing downwinder with it?
I love it on the waves it's fast enough for 3 to 5ft waves from 7 to 12 seconds period. I use it with freestyle stab to make it faster and turn faster . I have had to stop myself using the curve xlh , to get a feel for my curve 2023 large, as I have not used it much 😅. That's because the H is just so glide and quit fast only foils I can't keep up with are the very high aspect foils . H is a awesome all-rounder after 10 sessions on the curve 2023 large I may be wanting to change that to a curve h in large as well time will tell . Not downwind it yet I would probably try the curve h xxxl 😊 one day when I can afford it
I definitely prefer using a smaller wing and a moderate sized foil. I ride an MA 1450 foil and like my 3.5 m sail. I’m an intermediate level rider, weigh 72k and ride a regular 90 l board
welcome to the club ! the only issue i see it's when the wind is so marginal you need to get a bigger wing to stay up or you will be constantly pumping, 4.5 might be the best unique wing quiver. Another thing that im sad is i cannot longer jump when im using my light wind foil as the wingspan is too big and i risk damaging it. The only reason for a bigger wing in my opinion is to wing when the surf is really clean , which is kind of what you are doing with the dw board. Good luck for the defi wing, i have at least one buddy that going there .
Thank you! True! In the real light wind I need my 6m² wing. Yes the wingspan limiting jumping is a real issue. I don't like that about my Fluid XL-H. I may switch it out for a Veloce XL at some point which should be better suited for connecting waves / downwinding. And the wingspan allows jumping.
Good video, but I would take into account a third variable. The board! With a board like the Cruzader you can afford to carry a foil and/or a smaller wing for the ease of takeoff. Many times we carry oversize simply for takeoff. Once in flight things change. I speak mostly in light winds. All the best!
Very good point! However in this video I wanted to focus more on the tradeoff between wing and foil. Many people have just one board or at least carry just one board to the beach.
Everything mixed up nach Lust und Laune and matching the conditions of the spot. Many times in swell higher than 1,5m you need a 700 or 800 to be able to turn and control without frontfootpreasure. Using small foils actually is less tiring and you can go bigger on the wing, because less resistance under water. For gusty lakes I prefer fast HA foils to glide thru the lulls and a narrow width board makes getting on foil so much easier. My perfect lightwindfoil for 80kg is the curve HL 1100 and for fast waves in more than 15kt plus the 700. AR 8 seems to be the do it all aspect for foils now. Love your videos from the beginning. Hope you get sponsored for your work 😊
Thank you so much for your nice comment! Appreciate it! Interesting that your preferences are more on the smaller foil + big wing side. Probably makes sense for gusty lakes. I feel bad that most of my content focuses on choppy sea conditions. I just don't have any lakes around here.
@@windaddict small foil and small wing, but really depends on conditions. On my Cruzador I mostly use 4sqm and the curve HL. In superlight a 5sqm. I was going on the curve h700 today. It's fast and supercontrol on waves, but the glide of course is limited and I really have to concentrate to stay on foil when I tack with short radius. If you ever come to Sardinia let me know :-)
What's your opinion on the Curve H? The more i read up on the foils that one keeps popping up. XLH is the one I was thinking of. Price to me in NJ with the Titanium Fusealge, cover, screws is just over $700. The Armstrong HA 1180 which is the closest would cost me $930 just for the wing. hard not to buy Gong :)
I was thinking about getting the CurveH but after talking to a Gong Advisor realised that the Veloce v2 (normal version, not HA) is the best fit for me. The CurveH must be very easy to pump but a bit slow. So I got the Veloce XL instead and will make a video about it at some point. Also it's even more affordable than the Curve-H
I just changed a bunch of my quiver. Foils: Gong Sirus XXL (156cm, 2000cm²) Gong Veloce v2 XL (99cm, 1300 cm²) Gong Veloce v2 M (82cm, 900 cm²) Gong Ypra-S S (70cm, 610cm²) Wings: Gong Superpower 6m² 2023 Gong Neutra v2 5m² 2022 Gong Neutra v2 4m² 2022
I take the wingsail which is appropriate for the wind. 3-4-5.5 or 7m2. Most of the time I use a 1600cm2 Gong Veloce V1 (top speed 30km/h). When the 7m2 is not enough for very light wind, I hook on the 2100cm Curve V1 (top speed 28 km/h). I have tried a smaller frontwing of 1200cm2 (Gong Fluid V1) which I can only lift out with my 90kgs killer-body when I am overpowered. And I do not get more speed out of them. What are your topspeeds with the FluidH and the Ypra-S L?
Wow you got a big range of wings! My top speeds are not representative. I never have flatwater conditions and I never push the foils hard to go fast. With the Fluid XL-H I got to about 25 km/h in a recent session. With the Ypra-S L I did 30 km/h, but that one can go a LOT faster. It'll be interesting to see how much I can push it at the Defi Wing as there they usually have flat water with strong winds.
Nice video. How much do you weigh? I’m 76 kg with a 78 l 2022 strapless Cabrihna Code. I have 2 Veloce V2 foils for winging, an L and XL. I have a big quiver of SLS Slicks (6, 5, 4, and 3m). I could probably use a Veloce V2 M for really fast moving steep swell but most of my riding is flatter water and smaller swell. If I want to learn some challenging flatwater moves I love using the Veloce XL with my 5m Slick in winds around 12-16 knots. Great on foil speed range relative to wind strength. Ideal for learning new moves with an upwind component where you need plenty of entry speed but also able to stay on foil as long as possible before stalling (heel-side behind-the-back tack right into a jibe 360 is one example😮)
Thanks! You are asking the key question! I weigh 90 kg. I actually just ordered a Veloce V2 XL! Really excited to try it out. Wow you have many wings! Glad to hear that the Veloce XL is good for learning maneuvers. I felt that the stall speed of my Fluid-H XL was really limiting me.
@@windaddict I owned a Fluid H L for a short time, so probably equivalent to your Fluid H XL at your weight. The few true HA wings I’ve tried (Axis Art’s and Gong Fluid H) are great for their intended niche but they are definitely not “all round” performers imho. Mid aspect foils with just the right level of thickness distribution through the cross-section really provide the best of all worlds. The V2 Veloce’s have been perfect for me. I even owned the V2 Fluids but found they were just a little too low aspect for my taste (really aggressive turning at the expense of some pump and glide. It’s all a balancing act for each style of riding!
Agreed. The Fluid-H is probably fast for its size and has good glide. But in super-choppy / wave conditions that is useless. Are you using both the Veloce XL and L a good amount? Which one is your favorite?
@@windaddict Yep using them both quite a bit depending on wind strength. I do mostly flattish water strapless freestyle, and the XL is actually great for learning new moves in lighter winds (~12-15 kts). Nice top end speed and really low stall speed for my weight (~75 kg). It’s actually easier for me to learn these moves on the XL than the Veloce L in stronger winds. A subset of some my “modest” freestyle moves done on the XL with my 5 and 6m Slick th-cam.com/video/tcCb_Th1GD0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mzZ2ivzAuRC7hipq
Great video. It does get confusing what combo to use. I went ahead and bought the GONG HM79. Like you said, it's hard to beat their price point and quality. For me to get the HM mast with Armstrong it would have been $1500 US and the Gong delivered from France only cost me $725. Got a couple of questions. I did not get the silcone mast protector for the top of the mast; was wondering your thoughts on that and if you add it to your set up. Also, what front wing do you find the best for the small waves? thanks again
Thanks! Yep, bang for the buck is what's up! I always use the silicone mast protector. Otherwise I would be worried about the mast plate scratching my board. I just got a new front wing actually, the Veloce XL. I got it for small to medium size wave riding and downwinding (with wing), i.e. to connect waves. I only used it once so far and there were barely any waves so cannot give a full assessment. But I think I'll really like it.
@@windaddict Thanks. I actually ordered the mast protector today with a new harness. I have a Veloce LT that I was actually going to use for kite foiling. I am going to try that one the next lit day. thanks again SS
Great video! I just downsized my board to a middle length board and helped me tremendously to downsize foil and wing alike when wind is not so strong.
Short answer as a wave rider (i go home if i tis flat): Foil size according to wave size and wing size according to wind strength.
That's a good concept! However here sometimes we have wave days with (side)offshore wind and the wind is really weak close to shore where the shorebreak hits. So if your foil is not big enough you are not going to make it through the shorebreak.
I HAVE to go with big foil AND big wing on my gusty little pond far away from the coast 😂😢
Oh I believe you. With difficult conditions you are forced to oversize your gear
Looking forward to following your Defi journey
Thanks so much! Looking forward to sharing my experience there!
Great vid mate I love the big higher aspect wings for the glide on the wave with as small a wing as possible. Thanks for sharing 😊
Thanks Chris! Agreed! I have a question for you: I am curious how the Curve XL-H performs in waves. With my Fluid XL-H I have just enough speed to ride the waves here in the Mediterranean. The Curve-H must be a bit slower so that worries me, but I hear it is more playful and has much better stall speed. Are you enjoying it in waves? Pumping the Fluid-H is not super easy, so for downwinders (with a wing) it is challenging to use for me. How is pumping on the Curve-H? I bet it's easier. Have you tried doing a wing downwinder with it?
I love it on the waves it's fast enough for 3 to 5ft waves from 7 to 12 seconds period. I use it with freestyle stab to make it faster and turn faster . I have had to stop myself using the curve xlh , to get a feel for my curve 2023 large, as I have not used it much 😅.
That's because the H is just so glide and quit fast only foils I can't keep up with are the very high aspect foils .
H is a awesome all-rounder after 10 sessions on the curve 2023 large I may be wanting to change that to a curve h in large as well time will tell .
Not downwind it yet I would probably try the curve h xxxl 😊 one day when I can afford it
I definitely prefer using a smaller wing and a moderate sized foil. I ride an MA 1450 foil and like my 3.5 m sail. I’m an intermediate level rider, weigh 72k and ride a regular 90 l board
I bet using a 3.5 is nice. 4m² is the smallest I have tried so far
"Run what you brung" as they say.
True!
welcome to the club ! the only issue i see it's when the wind is so marginal you need to get a bigger wing to stay up or you will be constantly pumping, 4.5 might be the best unique wing quiver. Another thing that im sad is i cannot longer jump when im using my light wind foil as the wingspan is too big and i risk damaging it.
The only reason for a bigger wing in my opinion is to wing when the surf is really clean , which is kind of what you are doing with the dw board.
Good luck for the defi wing, i have at least one buddy that going there .
Thank you! True! In the real light wind I need my 6m² wing. Yes the wingspan limiting jumping is a real issue. I don't like that about my Fluid XL-H. I may switch it out for a Veloce XL at some point which should be better suited for connecting waves / downwinding. And the wingspan allows jumping.
If you want to go BIG go SMALL ☝🏻😜
😎
Good video, but I would take into account a third variable. The board! With a board like the Cruzader you can afford to carry a foil and/or a smaller wing for the ease of takeoff. Many times we carry oversize simply for takeoff. Once in flight things change. I speak mostly in light winds. All the best!
Very good point! However in this video I wanted to focus more on the tradeoff between wing and foil. Many people have just one board or at least carry just one board to the beach.
Everything mixed up nach Lust und Laune and matching the conditions of the spot. Many times in swell higher than 1,5m you need a 700 or 800 to be able to turn and control without frontfootpreasure. Using small foils actually is less tiring and you can go bigger on the wing, because less resistance under water. For gusty lakes I prefer fast HA foils to glide thru the lulls and a narrow width board makes getting on foil so much easier. My perfect lightwindfoil for 80kg is the curve HL 1100 and for fast waves in more than 15kt plus the 700. AR 8 seems to be the do it all aspect for foils now. Love your videos from the beginning. Hope you get sponsored for your work 😊
Thank you so much for your nice comment! Appreciate it! Interesting that your preferences are more on the smaller foil + big wing side. Probably makes sense for gusty lakes. I feel bad that most of my content focuses on choppy sea conditions. I just don't have any lakes around here.
@@windaddict small foil and small wing, but really depends on conditions. On my Cruzador I mostly use 4sqm and the curve HL. In superlight a 5sqm. I was going on the curve h700 today. It's fast and supercontrol on waves, but the glide of course is limited and I really have to concentrate to stay on foil when I tack with short radius. If you ever come to Sardinia let me know :-)
I will! I love Sardinia! Where do you foil there?
Everywhere :-)
What's your opinion on the Curve H? The more i read up on the foils that one keeps popping up. XLH is the one I was thinking of. Price to me in NJ with the Titanium Fusealge, cover, screws is just over $700. The Armstrong HA 1180 which is the closest would cost me $930 just for the wing. hard not to buy Gong :)
I was thinking about getting the CurveH but after talking to a Gong Advisor realised that the Veloce v2 (normal version, not HA) is the best fit for me. The CurveH must be very easy to pump but a bit slow. So I got the Veloce XL instead and will make a video about it at some point. Also it's even more affordable than the Curve-H
What's your current quiver with foils and wings?
I just changed a bunch of my quiver.
Foils:
Gong Sirus XXL (156cm, 2000cm²)
Gong Veloce v2 XL (99cm, 1300 cm²)
Gong Veloce v2 M (82cm, 900 cm²)
Gong Ypra-S S (70cm, 610cm²)
Wings:
Gong Superpower 6m² 2023
Gong Neutra v2 5m² 2022
Gong Neutra v2 4m² 2022
I take the wingsail which is appropriate for the wind. 3-4-5.5 or 7m2. Most of the time I use a 1600cm2 Gong Veloce V1 (top speed 30km/h). When the 7m2 is not enough for very light wind, I hook on the 2100cm Curve V1 (top speed 28 km/h). I have tried a smaller frontwing of 1200cm2 (Gong Fluid V1) which I can only lift out with my 90kgs killer-body when I am overpowered. And I do not get more speed out of them. What are your topspeeds with the FluidH and the Ypra-S L?
The Veloce is dead slow compared to an YpraS!
Wow you got a big range of wings! My top speeds are not representative. I never have flatwater conditions and I never push the foils hard to go fast. With the Fluid XL-H I got to about 25 km/h in a recent session. With the Ypra-S L I did 30 km/h, but that one can go a LOT faster. It'll be interesting to see how much I can push it at the Defi Wing as there they usually have flat water with strong winds.
Nice video. How much do you weigh? I’m 76 kg with a 78 l 2022 strapless Cabrihna Code. I have 2 Veloce V2 foils for winging, an L and XL. I have a big quiver of SLS Slicks (6, 5, 4, and 3m). I could probably use a Veloce V2 M for really fast moving steep swell but most of my riding is flatter water and smaller swell. If I want to learn some challenging flatwater moves I love using the Veloce XL with my 5m Slick in winds around 12-16 knots. Great on foil speed range relative to wind strength. Ideal for learning new moves with an upwind component where you need plenty of entry speed but also able to stay on foil as long as possible before stalling (heel-side behind-the-back tack right into a jibe 360 is one example😮)
Thanks! You are asking the key question! I weigh 90 kg. I actually just ordered a Veloce V2 XL! Really excited to try it out. Wow you have many wings! Glad to hear that the Veloce XL is good for learning maneuvers. I felt that the stall speed of my Fluid-H XL was really limiting me.
@@windaddict I owned a Fluid H L for a short time, so probably equivalent to your Fluid H XL at your weight. The few true HA wings I’ve tried (Axis Art’s and Gong Fluid H) are great for their intended niche but they are definitely not “all round” performers imho. Mid aspect foils with just the right level of thickness distribution through the cross-section really provide the best of all worlds. The V2 Veloce’s have been perfect for me. I even owned the V2 Fluids but found they were just a little too low aspect for my taste (really aggressive turning at the expense of some pump and glide. It’s all a balancing act for each style of riding!
Agreed. The Fluid-H is probably fast for its size and has good glide. But in super-choppy / wave conditions that is useless. Are you using both the Veloce XL and L a good amount? Which one is your favorite?
@@windaddict Yep using them both quite a bit depending on wind strength. I do mostly flattish water strapless freestyle, and the XL is actually great for learning new moves in lighter winds (~12-15 kts). Nice top end speed and really low stall speed for my weight (~75 kg). It’s actually easier for me to learn these moves on the XL than the Veloce L in stronger winds. A subset of some my “modest” freestyle moves done on the XL with my 5 and 6m Slick
th-cam.com/video/tcCb_Th1GD0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mzZ2ivzAuRC7hipq
Cool stuff!!
Great video. It does get confusing what combo to use. I went ahead and bought the GONG HM79. Like you said, it's hard to beat their price point and quality. For me to get the HM mast with Armstrong it would have been $1500 US and the Gong delivered from France only cost me $725. Got a couple of questions. I did not get the silcone mast protector for the top of the mast; was wondering your thoughts on that and if you add it to your set up. Also, what front wing do you find the best for the small waves? thanks again
Thanks! Yep, bang for the buck is what's up! I always use the silicone mast protector. Otherwise I would be worried about the mast plate scratching my board. I just got a new front wing actually, the Veloce XL. I got it for small to medium size wave riding and downwinding (with wing), i.e. to connect waves. I only used it once so far and there were barely any waves so cannot give a full assessment. But I think I'll really like it.
@@windaddict Thanks. I actually ordered the mast protector today with a new harness. I have a Veloce LT that I was actually going to use for kite foiling. I am going to try that one the next lit day. thanks again
SS
I ride small foil(550cm2) and big wing
Then you have the perfect setup for racing!! My focus has been on smallish waves that's why I like bigger foils
Gong just feels like a joke brand. I can't think of quality when I think of them.
I disagree