Dangerous Behaviour!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ม.ค. 2023
- Location: Malgrat, Spain
Gear: Gong Lemon 5'2 120L, Gong Neutra 6m², Gong Fluid H XL foil 1500cm²
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Great video and you've raised a very important issue that ought to be addressed more often! I'm a windsurfer (first love), winger (my new squeeze) and boater/fisherman (ol' standby). My 3 cents:
1) Practically speaking: As a boater, I've learned (the hard way) to be RADICALLY CAUTIOUS; for example, you have to give any approaching vessel twice the amount of safe leeway -- REGARDLESS of who has the right of way -- because you always have to assume they don't see you. And I apply this whenever I'm windsurfing or winging. So even though my allegiance is to windsurfers, I think the windsurfer could have done more to avoid the collision. At the same time, I empathize with the windsurfer -- when you're in the zone, it's easy to get tunnel vision.
2) Philosophically speaking: Would you rather be right, or would you rather be happy? I'll take the latter (which, again, I've learned the hard way).
3) Responsibly speaking: Regardless of who's at fault, both watermen should confirm that the other waterman is not injured and did not suffer catastrophic damage that would prevent them from making it back to shore. We're all in this together.
I agree 100% with everything you said! If everyone acted according to your principles, we would have no problems on the water.
Rule one should always be to be aware of what’s around you. So often people simply aren’t taught it and then it doesn’t get ingrained in them. But also remember the mental load can be high on beginners so they’re only concentrating on what they’re doing so it’s best to assume they will get in your way and put yourself in a position where they can’t get to, I.e. upwind in the windsurfer’s case, turn around or slow down and wait if that’s not possible. The last thing I would want to do is get wrapped up in kite lines let alone hit someone.
Very true!
Unfortunately my experience is that with kiting some people tend to forget just how dangerous it can be to other people on the water, if you combine that with some narcissism, it is a recipe for disaster. Fortunately there are also some great people kitting that avoid problems in the first place. Being such a popular sport you do find some of the bad ones.
Yes, there are careless people in every sport. Kiting can just be a bit more unpredictable with the "long" gear and sudden turns.
Glad you were both ok! Some spots are becoming overcrowded now, but that guy should have waited, sometimes I have even come off foil and touched down because you just don't know what the other guy is going to do. Ps have you not thought about changing your board leash for a coiled one, I couldn't have all that loose leash 🤣🤙
Yes, it's always better to be safe than sorry, especially in watersports. Funny that you make that comment now, I actually just ordered a coiled leash 😆
for the jibe in lightwind sometime you have to help the wing rotate by pushing the central strut , it's hard to maintain it's above since there not enough wind. I have been practicing the tack for a long time ... as the jibe, but im not passing it very often big wing help at the end of the manoeuver ( passed with a 6m and a 8m) too much wind not helping too because it's make your stall faster, you are right it's easier with switch foot , for regular foot tack you have to think to go upwind as much as you can without stalling , maintaining the wing near your head more behind than in front pass it to the other side pickup handle and make an exaggerated turn to be downwind in the other side to pickup wind and not stall.
For crashing it's can get complicated when it's crowded at the lake i have my fair share of mistake anticipating straight trajectory but not turning , people do both jibe at the same time in a small space good luck to not crash in each other.
Thanks for your tips Youdig! Interesting that you are saying a big wing is beneficial at the end of the tack. The "exaggerated turn" at the end of it is what I am not doing enough and I am stalling to early typically. Where do you foil typically?
In my opinion, the windsurfer is more culprit than the kiter. (And I am windsurfer and don't appreciate kiters). Personnaly I try to avoid to pass close to some one, particuraly from some one starting. When you start before you get planning you are not going in a stable direction.
I am upset by people passing 2 meters down my wind when I do a waterstart.
It's a valid point. As I mentioned the windsurfer should have kept more distance, even though I don't to think he was that close yet. I hate it too when people get too close to me.
Try either race jibe or, my favourite, Heineken jibe. Both allow for smoother and faster jibes without wing catching backwind and slowing you down and are easier to learn than tacks 🙂
That's great advice! I just switched to a smaller board. Once I got used to it, I will try these for sure. Why do you like the Heineken jibe the most? Is it easy to learn with a 6m² wing?
@@windaddict For some reason they feel really "smooth", almost like wings have been designed to actually use them that way. Another thing is that you loose almost no speed. And on top of that it looks really stylish 😁.
As for the wing size I actually learned it on a 6m and had no problem whatsoever, just make sure you're going faster than wind when starting the jibe.
What board size did you switch to? I've been using a 75l (at 88kg weight) for two years now and can get up in 10+ knots, and it's perfect for jumps/freestyle. Only a few days a year when it's 30+ knots I feel like trying out even a smaller board.
@@BLusikPL oh then you are more advanced then me. I just switched down from the 120L to 95L (also 88kg) and have no desire to get on a sinker 😄
There are “rules” to follow on water.
You were on a starboard tack ( right hand forward)
The kiter is on port. You had the right of way.
Unfortunately most kiters / wingers don’t know this rule and act like a asshole when they get it wrong.
Ultimately. Upwind keeps clear,
Port gives way to starboard
The overtaker must avoid collision with people who they’re overtaking.
Always baffles me, all the ocean and you want to ride straight at me or next to me. 😂
Even though I know the rules it’s safer to assume others don’t.
You are completely right!
@@windaddict I’ve kited. Windsurfed/ winged for over 30 plus years in some pretty busy spots.
Santa polla at Alicante can get pretty busy.
It’s best to avoid people even if you have right of way, just assume they don’t know the rules
It’s safer lol 😂
Yes, that's what I do as well. In this case I couldn't avoid the kiter though. I wasn't up on foil so I couldn't maneuver much at all
@@windaddict the kiter should’ve looked both ways before water starting.
You did nothing wrong the guy made a mistake and luckily it wasn’t too bad.
The amount of people who kite that don’t look before turning is ridiculous.
Happy winging, hasta Luego
Most don't know the rules because you do not need a boat license for these sports. I apply the skill rule - if you have the skill and speed you should manuever away from potential collision regardless of whos right or wrong just be aware that on the water anything could happen and factor in some wiggle room.
I have been kiteboarding 20+ years and have not had a collision like this - but must say this is really a no brainer - it could easily be kiteboard vs kiteboarder or wingfoiler vs wingfoiler- conditions are flat / no waves the windsurfer is on a tack and moving upwind? the kiteboard has better visibility for a start no sail so should be factoring this in to avoid the windsurfer and the windsurfer can see the kiteguy in the water and windsurfer has speed and possibility to adjust course, he is probably the more maneuverable vessel. From the kiteboarders side what does he see ? maybe a windsurfer flying along on a tack that will put him on a collision course, maybe he thinks better get up and out of the way quickly... maybe he could have started in the other direction... maybe he did not even see the windsurfer coming and was trying to get his board on and get out of the cold water?
This is a mix of selfish riding and not being observant / to see other riders and calculate their risk to you - I see it all the time - just give others some space.If your on the waves do some bigger tacks beyond the break give others the same access to waves. Go up wind and downwind as needed to avoid people. If your really good don't pressure beginners into tight spots and instead give them the room to recover their board and relaunch.... this is not as hard as it seems just dont be a dick - your upwind tack and keeping your ground is not critical and does not mean your a better rider - in fact if you can mix losing and gaining ground then you are doing pretty good - if you can't do that then maybe you are not skilled yet, or there is not enough wind for your equipment or you need to do longer tacks to get upwind.
Hi Simon. Thanks for your detailed response. You are very right. I wish everyone on the water considered all the things you pointed out.
@@windaddict My pleasure... a little bit more empathy and understanding from both sides would have made it a non issue.... when I am out I am often evaluating the actions of riders in a spot as to the risk - beginners need space and more experienced riders you may equally avoid as you never know what trick they attempting and can be just as oblivious to others when in the zone. I usually only stand my ground on tacks if I have lots of power to get upwind beyond them or if heading downwind puts me into a reef or obstacle.
in kiter's defense starting off - you dont have much means to maneuver (except not starting at all), while windsurfer - is in full control, so he had much more options to avoid the crash, yet he went full on in kiter's direction, seeing everything but not doing much at all to avoid collision, prolly crossing his fingers that he'll be able to dodge at the last second. imo windsurfer is a true a*ole here
You have some valid points. At the end of the day both could have avoided it. And both didn't
I'm not saying that the windsurfer did all that he could to avoid problems, but neither did the kiter, in the majority of such encounters, the windsurfer will have to throw himself into the water or be hit by the lines, and lots of kiters just don't care. Not that I'm defending it, but this video is a rare inversion of the unfortunately common situation, and the kiter is tasting his own venom.
salut je pense que tu as raison concernant le kite. maintenant à malgrat la baie est immense et donc tu peux tres facilement naviguer ailleurs q'en face du club de voile c'est ce que nous faisons à chaque fois qu'on descend naviguer à malgrat en wingfoil. nous nous mettons à l eau en face du club et nous remontons vers la tour0. je pense que pour cette situation, tu n'est pas plus intelligent que le kiteur. a bon entendeur
If there are many people in one spot I will go more upwind or downwind to avoid them. But I it's not my responsibility to do that because of a single kiter. I was not on foil (i.e. basically stationary) and he crashed into me while being on foil. So it's his fault.
My 2-cents a bout that crash: Kiter is static in the water. Windsurfer doesn’t know what the kiter’s intentions are - meaning when he plans to waterstart. The windsurfer is also downwind from the kilter and has already given right of way until the kilter decides to bolt out of the water without looking ahead and crosses the line the windsurfer was on. Definitely the kiter is at fault here. Personally, I would have anticipated what could have happened and would have gone upwind above the kiter. Regardless, the rule is that windsurfers ALWAYS have priority over kiteboarders. But many kiters don’t know that, so better be safe. If I can, I’ll always sail upwind from kiters, thus avoiding rookies uncontrolled launches and the dangerous lines of the kiters that fly their kite too low and who feel they “own” the spot. Cheers!
Thanks for your take on it! I actually didn't know that kiteboarders always have to concede right of way to any non-kiter on the water. Just read about it a little more. That is a great rule, considering that kiting is more complex with the long lines involved and the possibility to completely reverse direction in a second. I agree with most of what you are saying. However it seems to me that for many people staying upwind is considered a premium currency. I.e. someone will truck along as upwind as possible and not concede even if they are on a collision course and don't have right of way. So especially as a windsurfer I prefer to pass people downwind of them. This way you keep your ability to maneuver. If you try really hard to go upwind to avoid someone, you lose speed and it becomes harder to quickly change direction if needed.
@@windaddict upwind or downwind, whatever works to avoid a collision. At my spot, most kiters will do back and forth in front of the launch area and I was just making a point that I try to stay upwind from them where it’s less crowded. The lines are what’s dangerous and if I can choose, I’d cross upwind from a kiter that’s near, otherwise I bear downwind quickly to put more space between us. At my spot, all the local kiters are my friends and many are ex-windsurfers. They know how to manage their equipment and understand that crossing at close range upwind from me makes me nervous! Good luck on your wingfoiling journey. Fun to watch. I tried the wing and I’m gonna stick to windfoiling! Ha!
@@whynowind Makes total sense. Awesome that you know all the people at your spot. Makes things easier for sure. Thanks for your comment! I actually started foiling with windsurf foiling! I used a freestyle board that was "ready to foil". Not a great way to do it, especially in chop. A dedicated board would have been much better. But windsurf foiling is too cumbersome from a gear perspective for me. I still love windsurfing on a fin, but only do that when we go on vacation to areas with strong wind. Videos of that will follow in summer.
@@windaddict Cool! Same here: I prefer fin vs foil but that probably has to do with the fact that I'm better on the fin and my foil is not adapted to my boards. Like you did with your wingfoiling equipment, I just bought a better higher aspect ratio foil kit for windfoiling. I was on a beginner/intermediate foil that I got bored with: too slow, hard to recover from touch-downs (difficult to adjust rake) and hard to keep it down above 21-22mph (no tail wing shims for power adjustments) ...Barely touched it last season. I still plan to windfoil on my hybrid-ish windsurf boards: Taboo Fifty 115 and a 90cm wide Fanatic Falcon Lightwind. I like speed and large and fast jibe curves so I think these boards are just fine for now. The extra swing weight compared to dedicated foil boards isn't too much of an issue when doing straight line riding. Keep posting and you're welcome to check my vids as well! Cheers.
@@whynowind The Tabou Fifty should work very well for foiling with its shape. Will check out your content for sure!
Sorry but wingers are the problem. They need to stick to waves. Not kite spots
Ok