I think the negatives to this game are really part of the reason I want to play it so badly. Especially the idea of cascading failure and playing repeatedly to truly figure the game out. It reminds me of FromSoft games, my favorite set of games in existence. There's some subconscious draw for me when a game beats me down that badly. I can't help but go back and try to do better, and the satisfaction of seeing something new has always been worth the frustration such a game throws at you. Sadly I haven't had the stability to pick it up yet, but it is a goal of mine and I look forward to the day I find this behemoth of gaming sitting on my doorstep.
I really like KD: M, it's the crown of my gaming collection, but man, watching /months/ of game play vanish because of a single bad roll or unfortunate card draw is awful. There is a difference because in FromSoft stuff, the point is that you fail, learn, get better and then prevail. In KD:M, you can do /everything/ right and still randomly fail.
I appreciate you making a video that gives some tougher critiques to a game that you love. Many of the things you talked about were reasons why I won't consider getting into this game, but I still love seeing content you make about it!
Thanks so much :) I think if you really know and love something - you should be able to know its flaws and why it might not fit others! I don't want you to play and lord forbid by this game - if it is not for you! Or any game in that sense!
Only 6 minutes in the video, but I can already say that this is an absolutely brilliant idea and fills an important hole within the boardgame youtubers. Personally, when I try to decide if I want to get a boardgame or not, I can quickly identify the elements that appeal to me. It is usually much more complicated to figure out why said game would be a bad fit. (Actually that's true for anything, not just boardgames). I think analyzing flaws in a product and deciding if you can live with them is a very mature and intelligent way of shopping. Knowing that you love KDM makes your Confirmation Bias video much more weight too, and it also gives you more credibility as a whole. I will be using these videos in the future when I'm on the fence about a game. Keep it up.
Honestly he's be able to stop selling it special order, and instead sell it in stores, if he offered a version that forwent the miniatures. Just use carboard standees. The minis, while awesome, don't ACTUALLY add anything to the game. This would increase his sales SIGNIFICANTLY. And the creator could just leave a link, or several, in the book to go buy the minis if they wanted, as well as expansions. It would be a smarter business decision, because for years I did not buy because of that cost being so prohibitive (it was on sale when I got it), and he's admitted the reason it CAN'T be in stores, and costs SO much, is those minis.
I gotta say, you mention nightmare accounting like it’s a bad thing. As a career accountant and avid enthusiast of the macabre, this sounds right up my alley.
I like the concept of this video series. I'd love to see Tainted Grail (I see it behind you all the time), and 7th Continent. I also wouldn't mind recent thoughts on Oathsworn, as I'm on the fence about late pledging it.
Glad your digging the idea :) - Tainted Grail and 7th con require some more play! However, I would love to cover them this way! Oath - I need to play a lot before I could criticize it fairly.
Great video. When I play my copy of KDM, I have to make a mental flip in my mind that I am no longer meta'ing a game, that I am instead just along for an incredible story. It helps me deal with the difficulty of the game and the constant failure.
Knowing how much you like KDM and seeing how much of the content you still have in shrink wrap is a visceral feeling. I am trying to not glance at my hobby shelf with un-assembled sprues and half painted quarries....
Great content! I've had the game for over 5 years now and never opened it because I have so many other games and it's also so intimidating to open and learn a new long and tedious mechanic. Also I would have to play solo and this video help me put things in a better perspective to actually open it up and play it. At the moment I am enjoying tainted grail so once I complete it or at least half then I'll take a peak at KDM. Thanks again for the content!
This is hands down one of the best formats on board games i've ever seen. I started watching board game related videos about 10 years ago, but just after I watched this I realized how much I want more diverse oppinions on board games and in general. And I think it helped a lot that you know the game so well and that you do love it, because thats why your critique is very in depth and on point. I strongly believe that more diverse oppinions help our hobby to be more inclusive and mature. Changing perspectives even playing devil's advocate can help understanding oppinions that are not your own. And that is the dawn of empathy. And thats what our hobby needs. And probably our world. BTW first time I've watched your channel.
Watching this video makes me want to play my base copy of KDM. The only reason I can't is that I am working on moving so I have been packing. Also I'm almost 50 and I still enjoy playing my games.
Im suprised someone your age plays this game I wont get it because the theme is a bit too much and if my 50 year old dad saw the content of the game he you flip out saying its demonic probably. And the price is just so much I might as well get a bunch of huge games for 100 dollars a piece like gloomhaven.
51 here and I have all of it. It’s amazing and Adam Poots always overdelivers, so I went big on his latest Kickstarter too. I also have lots and lots of resins. 😂😂
Don't know who you are, your pedigree, or your usual format. Stumbled onto this video randomly and LOVE IT! Thank you for this. Subscribed and will be checking out your catalog.
Gloomhaven, Middara, Oathsworn, Eitherfeilds... really anything that you may need to commit a year or two to play would be ripe choices to pick. I love the content! Keep it up!
I think I’m realizing some ‘bad’ choices when all the huge campaigns you mentioned I’ve backed or preordered. I really hope my son grows up to like boardgames so I can play with him.
@@gulnaga4386 my gaming group is joking that I'm set well into retirement age with all of the "big campaign" games I've backed. But with games like Monopoly, Life, Sorry... they just don't hold interest the way Kingdom Death does. This video inspired me to go prime my Dragon king so I can paint it and start my first People of the Stars campaign and take up my Fall gaming schedule.
The point about hunting White Lions over and over again is a fair point - base game has two many nemesis and not much quarry monsters to stop it from feeling repeatable (saying as a person who plays KDM at least once a week during last 2.5 years), without expansions like Gorm it's ok for 1-2 first successfull campaigns. As for growing older and delays - same thing, cant agree more. Perfect requires time, not all however will make this far. Thank you for this honest review, it's what many gamers experience if they own at least the core box. Nevertheless I dont own other big board games so it is probably a per-life hobby game ;)
At least with KD:M, there is a theoretical cap to how much you can spend until you have everything...assuming Poots is able to put everything up on the store to begin with.
There are a lot of us crazy persons, GW made a $375 million business based on those crazy people. Imho enough room for more crazy people playing KDM. ;-) Also, ever went all in on a CMoN KS project, that can easily set you back $700+. KDM to date is about three of those projects for those of us who backed the intitial KS projects (or late pledge blackfriday deals). If you want it now, you're going to spend a lot more...
A great video series. It has been the kind of game I like to watch gameplay of. A visual novel, I would never have the time, playgroup, money or paint tome. Beasts of war stopped their series. I have felt a bit lost without a new series. Looking forward to your KDM videos
Really interesting video. This game seems so cool but I can't get past the time commitment and getting a consistent play group. I appreciate the honesty in the conversation. Just recently getting into board games and trying to find some good ones for my collection.
Its funny. We made a similar podcast on my german kdm channel and we came to the same results. I really enjoyed your view on the things and i totally agree. Its the holy grail of boardgaming for me but i understand eveyone who cant engage as much into the game as we did, mainly because of the theme or the money and time invest this game provides. And its not the classic hero rushing crushing monster destroying game many people would search for. Keep going, and greetings :)
Damn! Now I'm glad that I cancelled my pledge when the second edition came out. Way too much randomness for my taste. I'll stick with Frostgrave and Rangers of Shadow deep instead 😁
wonderful video, was having a tough time with deciding on this game and based on the time points you brought up, i believe i will wait a year or two before i try getting into this
Great set of videos. Look forward to more in this style. KD was my first board game love. First introduction into mini building, painting, and really board games in general. I play solo, and even enjoy the pen and paper accounting side of it. But the last time i played i got until the last few lantern years of the people of sun campaign and felt way too overwhelmed playing solo with over 50 pages of character sheets and memos around me. Kind of put me off playing for a bit, but a month has passed and I'm ready to jump back into the madness.
All fair points, except perhaps about the theme. Nudity, guts and gore I don't have an issue with, this is a game for grownups not children, which is a part of it appeal. One point you missed is the multiplayer aspect, you cannot play this game 4 people too many times one player will have to sit out. 2 player is good and 3 player is mostly good. This is mostly due to deaths during hunts which will leave players without anything to do for the entire evening. That is the primary thing I personally hate about the game I love. Death in the settlement phase is perfectly fine, and tells the story of a grim world.
Still - it does make it wrong for a lot of people and for a large group - I think that is fair even if I have had fun with the groups I have played with. :)
I would actually say the theme is for adolescents, not grownups - it's like 40k in that way, it tries extremely hard to appeal to the edgy teenage boy demographic with some of its theming. A lot of older people find it juvenile. Because, to be honest, some of it absolutely is, which is a shame. If the theming was more *actually* mature, it'd get a LOT more play than it does. And no, "cracks in the ground" will never be perfectly fine. It's probably the single poorest designed event in any game I've ever played and the only thing I've ever seen that made people quit a game outright on the spot :P
Hey Quack! First of all in imho this is one of your best videos on this channel. Only a big love can provide big pain. And - honestly speaking, this video is full of pain. But I'm with you. Ervey word is totally true and could also be my words. But something more positive. I won, sry played, this game through 2 times and still love it more then all other games I own. Keep on track Quack, it wont make you happy but it's worth it playing through. Thanks for this Video. I'm exited which games provide enough soul to talk in this kind of format. Greetings from Austria.
I really liked this video concept. It really works for me. It's like an expanded right for you wrong for you, but also a deeper conversation. I would love to see one like this for Gloomhaven and other big-box higher-priced games (like the games of Vital Lacerda) or games with just a ton of additional content (like Arkham Horror the card game).
Yeah! I think this format is fantastic. Especially when the subject of the topic is a game people love and/or have a personal love for it. I've never played KDM, only found out about it thru your channel (is it right for your video), and I seriously can see myself getting the game if I had people around me who would love to put some hours with it. After doing some research and watching your videos, I believe this game is a type of a game in which, you must commit not only time but, put an effort to get immersed within the game. I'm definitely happy that this game exists, I just hope @kingdomdeath would reply to your tweets sometime soon lol.
Yes - I would never do this format on a game that is already getting beet up or people don't care about. This is 100% one that takes over for a time :) and I love that about it! I also with they would talk to me.
Love this format! You did convince me to not buy KDM but I was almost there anyway. Hearing about all the delays and the lack of communication from the company and the price tag to be honest made me hesitant. I am a Gloomhaven fan and I think that I will be kick happier starting with that. Waiting for Frosthaven got next year. I would over to see you do this with Gloomhaven, even though I like it I think you have some awesome opinions. Great job brother!
A neighbor randomly gave me like 40 brand new pieces. Prior i had never heard of this game, nor had anyone i know as well. So i looked it up and stumbled on this gem of a video! Dude,thank you for informing me about this. And such an amazing video as well!
Love KDM (only had since gencon 2019) but time is a major requirement. I definitely got too many games at once and feel like I need to play them before going back to KDM. KDM is definitely a game I'll continue to love long after the other games get old. Problem is more games keep coming. Love more KDM and think this series could be a good one.
I agree with all your points. The only extra criticism I would give is that it can be somewhat boring for a full group of players....I’ve found that one or two people get really into the mechanics and the others just sit and wait to be told when to roll dice. There’s not a lot of player agency or choice. That being said it is also my holy grail of gaming, far and away my favorite board game and really shines with a couple dedicated players that want to get everything out of it.
All very valid points. Still love the game though. I tend to play with a couple of house rules that mitigate ridiculous brutality. I have no shame about altering the things that would otherwise keep me from getting it to the table. I may not get the bragging rights of beating the game on hard mode, but I get to experience the content and the rush of a win amongst so many brutal defeats.
What an interesting video series! I hope it does well and we get more really high profile games. For my part, your last point hits the hardest especially in the world we're living in. Who knows where we'll be a year down the line much less three or five!
I have not yet included any expansion (yet, I have played more than 100 hours or 150 I forgot) :-) And yet I have 5 that are, if I may say so, beautifully painted. I spent at least as much time (probably more) on painting the minis :-)
More Root is always good! And @Quackalope... i would -love- an 8 player Twilight Imperium 4e game once the expansion hits w/ you, Jan, and BoardgameCo! It would be a Marathon, needed to be broken up in multiple vids but... oh my yes.
Love this format. Super interested in KDM so this was really helpful. Would love to see more vids like this especially of games you really like. Keep up the good work!
I feel the exact same way about the game. I love the vibe, and it has given me an amazing hobby, but the only reason anyone actually likes the game is because they are too monetarily invested to be objective about it. Warhammer has the same issues. I own the fact that I am never going to finish it, I will never see everything it has to offer, and that if I am going to enjoy the game, I basically have to write my own ruleset just to enjoy myself. But still, I don't regret a single second or cent spent with it. I need Poots to be more transparent and forthcoming about the future of the game before I will pre-order any more content. I will only buy product when it is available on the website, and only if it is actually relevant to the game. No more single figures.
Enjoyed the format. I agree with all the points and still consider this one of my all time favorite games. My group played every week for 14 months and beat it the first time through. My only regret is purchasing the later expansions because I doubt they will ever get played. One of the things that has always confuses me is why I can enjoy kingdom death monster but am often repelled by other games with dark themes.
I picked this up on during their yearly Black Friday sale. This is worth mentioning as it lessens the price issue a little. I was waiting to play this with a friend but after watching you other video I may just forge ahead and play on my own as i think it looks awesome!
That was a perfect spot on guide. But yes still play the game, but the frustrations and the downsides are totally backed from my side. Special the last to. To keep Tracy on the hit and damage numbers while rolling the dices are hard. But most of all. The delay, and the lack of communication from KDM, I also ordered the Kickstarter for more that 5 years ago. And I still haven't received all I ordered. They just keep posponing, and it's so frustrating. I didn't wanna start the game untill I had it all. And now my excitement for the game is gone. In the beginning I was so excited, but now I'm just like. Meehh... But then me and 2 friends tried out the game any way. And it's a perfect game. I don't regret getting it. But the downside you are pointing out are so correct. specially the last to. And Specially the last one. Because it was not needed, if Adam and KDM just keeps their timeline or just took their Kickstarter supporter more seriously. It could have been avoided. A little delay is ok, but not this long.
I'm sorry to say this (as an all in KD:M fan not fanboy) but the first thing I saw from you was your first interview with Adam and I thought "Oh no, not another fanboy with nothing but the same questions that any reviewer that never played KD:M would ask" but these two videos are just great. Kudos to you. Hell, I'm even giving a thums up for both. :) Keep doing these videos (even the criticals) you got a new subscriber here.
I'm 34 and have a core friend group that meets for three day weekends about 4 times a year. Years ago was at a crossroads between Gloomhaven and KDM. Chose Gloomhaven, based on this video it seems I made the right choice. With our silly schedule, we feel a lot of pressure to not fail scenarios for fear of retreading content on a time crunch. I'll also add that while playing with friends in person is an irreplaceable experience, games with deep mechanics like this often made us feel that a computer doing the "dark accounting" you're talking about would make the game go much faster and be more enjoyable. This turned out to be totally true in our experience, the PC version of Gloomhaven is excellent and much faster, for the tabletop we farmed out a lot of the calculation to an app called Gloomhaven Helper, which had similar effects. I wonder if KDM will ever be a videogame...I know that sidelines a lot of the hobbyist appeal though.
I feel like KDM is the 40k for boardgamers, large hobby portion & cost. That said its still my favourite game to get to the table, its a puzzle in risk mitigation. I fully agree the time commitment to progress is insane ive hit the end once in about 12 attempts average years take about an hour and a half for me. The flower knight is a great expansion and is like tuning the difficulty down a step if you are looking for that. Alternatively just removing the murder event while a houserule can also ease up some of the punishment and is personal preference.
Thousands of dollar in cost may be true but it is still cheaper than most war games. I have spent more on Fallout Wasteland Warfare and probably 10x more on 40k over the years.
I played this game for the first time yesterday and I had a miserable time. I really appreciate your videos on it, you went into a lot of detail and hit similar points that I felt both positive and negative. I think I would rather do literally anything else though rather than play this over complicated and just unfun game. I think it's unfun and hard for the sake of being unfun and hard. For the money I'd rather invest in WH40K, Magic the Gathering, or Gloomhaven and a stack of other board games. They're fun, complex, and don't make me wish I had hours of my life back after playing them (my wallet feels differently but that's here nor there)
I made this comment sort of poking fun midway through the video about your rule book, we had to replace our rulebook because it was falling apart, it fell off of laps, had a broken spine and had pages well used. I in no way wanted to diminish your use of time or hrs spent playing. When in all seriousness it truely does come down to TIME. Not that I saw you as old or young, it just wasnt in my mind. I will be 32 come September, and it was wholesome, funny and depressing when you talked about if you will be into this when you are 30. It's scary to think about this game and time....am I wasting it? How would this play out if I had kids, a spouse, if I wasnt where I was now due to my past relationship? Kingdom Death is all consuming, I have the core, expansions, the 3d terrain, the fan content from your coverage, my roommate and I are making fan content, i made a board game table, bought a massive display case, I mod and paint the models, all for KDM. I work semi full time/part time, so that supports the habit, but I find KDM taking away from other things I could be spending my time on. Our time is insanely valuable. A coworker was like why dont you do this, and I had to explain that it wasnt worth my time. Kdm is a glorious game if you have the time, your book and minis show that, I dont mean for that to be negative. The time you spend is creating glorious content, and I cant wait for more, cant wait to spend my valuable time watching them. I dont make it through all of your videos and sometimes they are on in the background, but the KDM content is what I'm here for. I cant stand to watch people just play or teach KDM, no one has truely captured it. I think if you kept things short and sweet and leaned into the story aspect, told us your unique character names and maybe played SOTF so they'd stay around longer you could make content on play by plays of those characters. I dont want to tell you how to create, I'm sure what you make KDM related will be awesome, and I'll watch it. (Sorry novel). Keep up the great work Jesse.
I like the format and honesty - it is what it is. Maybe, Gloomhaven and Tainted Grail would fit this? Really anything that requires a huge investment of time/money is worth looking at from both sides.
First time on this channel and I have got to say, you have one of the most in depth descriptions of a review I have ever seen. Listening to your opinions seem very honest and unbiased. This video was 5 reasons not to buy this game but instead what I took was a bunch of reasons why this game is cool and a bunch of reasons why it is not. If I was planning on buying this game you would have legit told me everything I needed to know before my purchase. I'm deff going to be looking at this channel for more of your reviews!
Nice video. I was scared off from getting Gloomhaven because of the implied time commitment. That means I never felt the slightest temptation to buy KDM, but so many people seem to love it that I've always wondered at the attraction. For me the turn-offs are the dark theme, the cost, building & painting the minis, and the amount of time the game requires.
I don't care about the dark theme, but agree with the other turn-offs. An extra turn-off for me is the lack of a pdf rulebook. Not having the search function to quickly find a rule during play is kinda annoying. But the bigger problem is that whenever I think about buying a game, I prefer to go trough the rulebook beforehand, to then determine if the game is right for me. Not having the option to check on the specifics of gameplay, makes me extremely hesitant to buy any boardgame, combined with all the other barriers, I don't see me buying this game any time soon.
Even as a backer on Kickstarter, who got in on the best deals they had in limited quantity on Frogdog level that included every single expansion, and add-on possible, backing the first and second campaign ran $1856, which does not include shipping for the large amount of stuff that has yet to actually ship. On top of that, picking up all one off add-ons he has released since 2014 through the KD web site ran an additional $1461, and that was not even close to all of them, since many of them sell out in minutes of the email announcing them go out. So it is essentially impossible to buy all the content for the game, since large amounts of it are sold in very limited quantities and are *POOF* gone before you can even get a chance to buy them even if you want to. Even "reprints" of figures and content sell out in minutes to hours, with the coolest miniatures that include game cards going so fast that unless you are specifically watching for them every single day you will miss them. So that is $3317.80 for the "bulk" of the game, at very high and no longer possible discounts. I cant even imagine how much trying to get all of that would cost now. I would imagine double to triple that price, if it is even possible to get it all.
Only just found KD this year via a post sharing the monsters and fell in love immediately. Unfortunately, in watching this *very* informative video, I am very certain I am not going to be getting it. Ignoring all the hurdles of gameplay, the price is definitely a sticking point. I'm probably just going to end up collecting a few of the models I find most interesting and leave it there. Thank for such an informative video, critiques of media by those who love it are among the most valuable one can find when trying to judge if that media is something you're going to enjoy.
Ive had my finger on the trigger with this game for months now.. You're one of the few reviewers that can hold my attention with this kind of in depth conversation! Very solid dude 🙂👍 thx for the video!
I honestly don't think I would have enjoyed KDM if my first experience was getting the core box. But because I first experienced a heavily scripted TTS mod, it handled so many things for me.
So appreciate you looking at the reasons we might not like it. I have too many new games at the moment to be able to focus so much time to only 1 game! I'll have to look at it later :)
Hi Jesse! I subscribed to your channel from Alex at Boardgame Co's suggestion. No KDM for me, because I don't want nudity in the house scarring my kiddos if they get into it, and I choose not to view nudity or sexual content for myself either. You seem well- versed with the game and I'd like to ask: I have pledges for Aeon Trespass Odyssey and Oathsworn. Do either of those 2 games seem to have a scope or premise akin to kdm? If not, is there another, more appropriate game you would suggest that does?
Glad to have you here! They each make interesting promises and many seem to think they will deliver. If I am honest - I don't expect them to win me over from KDM and the new things Poots is producing. However, I am very interested in them both!
@@Quackalope alright, very cool! We shall play the wait and see game. I hope we wind up with a family friendly epic gaming experience out of it! Thanks for having me!
I had the same experiences, but i didnt go full in on the game as you did. I bought the 1.5 game as a Kickstarter backer and i started the game several times with different gaming groups and friends. Each one of these groups thought i was crazy for paying that much for this game but wanted to give it a try and actually they gave it 2-3 tries each bc they felt bad for my investment. But in the end all of them said "i'm out!" because this game is so relentless and unforgiving that all of them lost the interest in playing it. It makes you really feel depressed about all that happens. You might start good and kill Lions and get good ressources. But then you suddenly draw "Murder" two times in a row and loose all your experienced fighters, just a lantern year before the Butcher arrives... And this is not even close to encounters later on, but it was enough to demotivate experienced and grown up player groups. So after 1-2 years i sold the game because i didnt have anyone in my surroundings who would like to play this with me and playing it alone is possible but it just isnt the same when you laugh at each other for being unlucky with our rolls only to get headchomped by a head targeting attack from a monster. Thanks for the review and i hope you wont loose players faster then your settlers XD
this is my first video of yours i've watched and im subbing! You're so well spoken to do this in one take, and your critiques are sincere and clearly show how much you care about the medium. Looking forward to seeing your other videos ^^
Okay, so post video comment :D Phenomenal, as always, but I have to agree, I've only played one game on TTS, and the game is so much work. I love hard games, I play Arkham, but one thing I love is getting attached to a character, pimping them out, doing cool stuff, and here, bad dice rolls and it's all over, regardless of what's happening. It just feels bad sometimes. I find the silence to be kinda strange, but not deal breaking. Maybe the thing that puts me off the most is the theme, Arkham is a bit out there, but it's always fairly tame for family to maybe see (ignoring any particularly sensitive family). I wouldn't even want people googling KDM let along seeing it. That on top of the setup time, actually building mini's instead of just opening a box of phenomenal mini's puts this in the TTS category for me. TTS is the perfect environment for me to play this in personally, but I miss out on that tabletop feel that I know you love. Too rambling but keep it up, you robot impersinator you :D
Post video Post comment, comment responce! I would agree it is a lot of work :) and you should not fall in love! Granted . . . I still do! However you should not! The game 100% feels bad . . . almost all the time! I also, understand the art style :P - It is not for most people! Beep. . . beep... boop.
Finally got a chance to watch this, great points and basically everything I was thinking, especially time, people and money. I'll probably still get it in the future, but I don't NEED it immediately. Thank you 😊
Sound just like it's not your type of game, and not because it's a bad game. I was slightly interested in the game but the more you talked about it, the more i wanted to play it so I got the mod on Tabletop simulator and will play a game soon. Thanks for the recommendation
Hey :) - I would encourage you to check out the paired video to this one! I am glad I could show off KDM to you - if it still sounds right for you - I am sure you will love it!
Hello. So I do have a comment and many questions. I'm very new to board gaming, maybe 6 months now. I would say that I have collected 20 or so games over this time and only played 2 of them. There are no board game communities around my area and, due to the nature of my job, I live alone. 2 days ago I ordered Kingdom Death: Monster 1.5 and it is currently en route to me. I have no figure building experience and no character painting experience. What is the best way for me to enjoy this game solo? What tools should I purchase so that I can attempt the character builds and should I even attempt to paint them? Also, what other things will I need to purchase to maximize the storage efficiency of the game? I am afraid that I may have bitten off too much for such a beginner. Any feedback would be invaluable and appreciated. Cheers!
This is fantastic! But you won’t scare me away! Kingdom Death has already twisted my mind. I play on TTS for reasons already discussed in this vid lol I want the physical game for sure. Two games I would love to see you cover in this format are D&D and Kilforth. In the past two months I have put over 100 hours into Gloom of Kilforth and Shadows of Kilforth (both games combined together) And prior to those games I put almost 100 hours into KDM on TTS. I have only ever played KDM solo and have only gotten to the Phoenix. Wonderful job! Have you tried the Kilforth games or any games from Hall or Nothing Productions?
Really enjoyed this format. Critiquing what we love is a really valuable discussion and it gives other people, who might not be as familiar with the topic, a rather unique insight.
Great video. I have been wanting this game forever and trying to not spoil anything I feel you have gave me great enough insight to understand what I'm getting into without major spoilers! Fantastic!
On the subject of randomness, what I’ve learned after 500+ hours into this game is that while the game is heavy RNG and the dice can just choose whether you win or lose sometimes, you can mitigate a lot of this by planning. By planning I mean by ordering your turns correctly in a fight, deciding who to bring on each hunt/nemesis encounter, what weapon proficiencies to prioritize, spreading gear well, and what innovations to get. And this may sound really basic but I mean your planning must start from the beginning of the game and payoff at the end of the game. I:E, always having someone master fist and tooth starting at the prologue by throwing a founding stone at the white lion at the start to get a guaranteed +1 strength, making sure the survivors in front of the white lion move to the sides and attack first so they don’t get grabbed on reaction. Another would be NOT taking your best survivors to phoenix but taking only your youngest ones so they don’t age out. Or storing your survivors who are gold smoke knight ready so they don’t die. Or do things like finding exploits in the game. (Infinite insanity from white lion + immortal = unkillable via damage, husk of destiny + slender man secret fighting art = untargetable infinite movement and extra strength roll, double dagger mastery = turn 1 kill) I could go on and on about how you could side things in your favor, but I will say that no new player/group would know this and would get creamed immediately. And a lot of the cool stuff is in the expansions, and a lot of the good stuff, base kdm is rough and the only way to beat gold smoke night would be stuff like red charm, crit builds, phoenix armor plus big strength stats and the like. Tho the worst part about this game is the settlement events like plague and cracks in the ground, if you get plague within 2-3 lantern years just restart, if not then rush bloodletting and ammonia so you make it through easy. But cracks in the ground is just stupid, same with murder, where you are pretty much guaranteed to lose a survivor. Tho I guess with murder you could age a useless guy with phoenix so he’s higher hunt exp than everyone and will just be the fall guy for that event.
Great discussion. I enjoy the format; an honest discussion on the problems with a game. There should be more of this, as gamers we tend to over look these issue due to our rose covered glasses for a game we love.
Thank you for this vid. #3 - investing so many hours just to lose over and over and over is the most frustrating, fun-hindering aspect of this awesome game for me. I believe the Community Edition updates can help mitigate those poor odds (I don't really think Campaign of Death's corrections will help make it easier, no sir).
Best way to enjoy KDM:
1) Find a guy that has it
2) Play it with them for free
Haha :) this works
@@Quackalope Would love to, but have none
It is not a game I want to own but would looove to play.
i'm that guy :P i have all the wave 1 expansions too
I just got my copy for free……
@@furretthefuzzynoodle3896 how did you get it for free?
Oh man, I've been excited for this format! We can finally unveil it!
Hahah - Quack!
00:00:00 - Hello, hello
00:01:10 - Why Confirmation Bias
00:02:50 - KDM Overview
00:04:03 - Cost
00:05:54 - Theme
00:07:50 - Randomness
00:10:47 - Time Investment
00:13:20 - Hobbyist Game
00:14:20 - Your Only Game
00:14:47 - Cascading Failure
00:17:26 - Dark Accounting
00:21:35 - Delays and Publisher Engagement
Quack.
thank you
I think the negatives to this game are really part of the reason I want to play it so badly. Especially the idea of cascading failure and playing repeatedly to truly figure the game out. It reminds me of FromSoft games, my favorite set of games in existence. There's some subconscious draw for me when a game beats me down that badly. I can't help but go back and try to do better, and the satisfaction of seeing something new has always been worth the frustration such a game throws at you. Sadly I haven't had the stability to pick it up yet, but it is a goal of mine and I look forward to the day I find this behemoth of gaming sitting on my doorstep.
One day :) - I am excited for you!
I really like KD: M, it's the crown of my gaming collection, but man, watching /months/ of game play vanish because of a single bad roll or unfortunate card draw is awful.
There is a difference because in FromSoft stuff, the point is that you fail, learn, get better and then prevail. In KD:M, you can do /everything/ right and still randomly fail.
It's exactly like a fromsoftware game interestingly enough this makes Elden Rings lore look like a happy setting in comparison 😂😂😂
$700 AUD
someone stop me from buying KDM
I bought KDM and have all the expansions and extras and paitned so much of it, oh god
@@indeimaus how much eas everything?? I have to knoe
I appreciate you making a video that gives some tougher critiques to a game that you love. Many of the things you talked about were reasons why I won't consider getting into this game, but I still love seeing content you make about it!
Thanks so much :) I think if you really know and love something - you should be able to know its flaws and why it might not fit others! I don't want you to play and lord forbid by this game - if it is not for you! Or any game in that sense!
Only 6 minutes in the video, but I can already say that this is an absolutely brilliant idea and fills an important hole within the boardgame youtubers.
Personally, when I try to decide if I want to get a boardgame or not, I can quickly identify the elements that appeal to me. It is usually much more complicated to figure out why said game would be a bad fit. (Actually that's true for anything, not just boardgames). I think analyzing flaws in a product and deciding if you can live with them is a very mature and intelligent way of shopping.
Knowing that you love KDM makes your Confirmation Bias video much more weight too, and it also gives you more credibility as a whole.
I will be using these videos in the future when I'm on the fence about a game.
Keep it up.
After reading the Berserk manga, KDM allows me to come to terms with existentialism and unspeakable horror in a game format
Honestly he's be able to stop selling it special order, and instead sell it in stores, if he offered a version that forwent the miniatures. Just use carboard standees. The minis, while awesome, don't ACTUALLY add anything to the game. This would increase his sales SIGNIFICANTLY. And the creator could just leave a link, or several, in the book to go buy the minis if they wanted, as well as expansions. It would be a smarter business decision, because for years I did not buy because of that cost being so prohibitive (it was on sale when I got it), and he's admitted the reason it CAN'T be in stores, and costs SO much, is those minis.
I gotta say, you mention nightmare accounting like it’s a bad thing. As a career accountant and avid enthusiast of the macabre, this sounds right up my alley.
100%
I like the concept of this video series.
I'd love to see Tainted Grail (I see it behind you all the time), and 7th Continent.
I also wouldn't mind recent thoughts on Oathsworn, as I'm on the fence about late pledging it.
Glad your digging the idea :) - Tainted Grail and 7th con require some more play! However, I would love to cover them this way! Oath - I need to play a lot before I could criticize it fairly.
tainted grail and 7th are super good picks
Great video. When I play my copy of KDM, I have to make a mental flip in my mind that I am no longer meta'ing a game, that I am instead just along for an incredible story. It helps me deal with the difficulty of the game and the constant failure.
I think that is needed sometimes!
Knowing how much you like KDM and seeing how much of the content you still have in shrink wrap is a visceral feeling. I am trying to not glance at my hobby shelf with un-assembled sprues and half painted quarries....
Haha I am sorry for both of us
Great content! I've had the game for over 5 years now and never opened it because I have so many other games and it's also so intimidating to open and learn a new long and tedious mechanic. Also I would have to play solo and this video help me put things in a better perspective to actually open it up and play it. At the moment I am enjoying tainted grail so once I complete it or at least half then I'll take a peak at KDM. Thanks again for the content!
Did you end up ever playing it?
This is hands down one of the best formats on board games i've ever seen.
I started watching board game related videos about 10 years ago, but just after I watched this I realized how much I want more diverse oppinions on board games and in general.
And I think it helped a lot that you know the game so well and that you do love it, because thats why your critique is very in depth and on point.
I strongly believe that more diverse oppinions help our hobby to be more inclusive and mature. Changing perspectives even playing devil's advocate can help understanding oppinions that are not your own. And that is the dawn of empathy.
And thats what our hobby needs.
And probably our world.
BTW first time I've watched your channel.
Oh . . . well thank you
Watching this video makes me want to play my base copy of KDM. The only reason I can't is that I am working on moving so I have been packing. Also I'm almost 50 and I still enjoy playing my games.
And you . . . are a true KDM fan :)
Im suprised someone your age plays this game I wont get it because the theme is a bit too much and if my 50 year old dad saw the content of the game he you flip out saying its demonic probably. And the price is just so much I might as well get a bunch of huge games for 100 dollars a piece like gloomhaven.
@@Urek968 Boardgames are for everyone if you enjoyed it :)
51 here and I have all of it. It’s amazing and Adam Poots always overdelivers, so I went big on his latest Kickstarter too. I also have lots and lots of resins. 😂😂
Don't know who you are, your pedigree, or your usual format. Stumbled onto this video randomly and LOVE IT! Thank you for this. Subscribed and will be checking out your catalog.
Glad to have you :) more of this format will be coming soon!
Gloomhaven, Middara, Oathsworn, Eitherfeilds... really anything that you may need to commit a year or two to play would be ripe choices to pick.
I love the content! Keep it up!
Hahah xD - I’ll have all of those ready . . . In about a year
Seconded.
I think I’m realizing some ‘bad’ choices when all the huge campaigns you mentioned I’ve backed or preordered. I really hope my son grows up to like boardgames so I can play with him.
@@gulnaga4386 my gaming group is joking that I'm set well into retirement age with all of the "big campaign" games I've backed. But with games like Monopoly, Life, Sorry... they just don't hold interest the way Kingdom Death does. This video inspired me to go prime my Dragon king so I can paint it and start my first People of the Stars campaign and take up my Fall gaming schedule.
@@crystulas2598 Yeah, I feel KDM will always be there. I need to finish assembling the expansion creatures and actually start painting them.
My friend actually got the game so I"m super excited to sit down and play. Been looking into it and we can't wait!
I hope you have a blast!
The point about hunting White Lions over and over again is a fair point - base game has two many nemesis and not much quarry monsters to stop it from feeling repeatable (saying as a person who plays KDM at least once a week during last 2.5 years), without expansions like Gorm it's ok for 1-2 first successfull campaigns. As for growing older and delays - same thing, cant agree more. Perfect requires time, not all however will make this far. Thank you for this honest review, it's what many gamers experience if they own at least the core box. Nevertheless I dont own other big board games so it is probably a per-life hobby game ;)
The expansions help for sure! I think KDM is my . . . hobby game! That and RPGS
He: Most money on this game then on your whole collection....
Me: You should see my Wh 40k collection painted .... Believe me, I am a crazy person
Haha
At least with KD:M, there is a theoretical cap to how much you can spend until you have everything...assuming Poots is able to put everything up on the store to begin with.
There are a lot of us crazy persons, GW made a $375 million business based on those crazy people. Imho enough room for more crazy people playing KDM. ;-) Also, ever went all in on a CMoN KS project, that can easily set you back $700+. KDM to date is about three of those projects for those of us who backed the intitial KS projects (or late pledge blackfriday deals). If you want it now, you're going to spend a lot more...
@@Cergorachdid you mention bloodborne the board game??? I could have sworn you mentioned bloodborne the board game.
I was on the fence about this game now I'm definitely getting it.
A great video series. It has been the kind of game I like to watch gameplay of. A visual novel, I would never have the time, playgroup, money or paint tome. Beasts of war stopped their series. I have felt a bit lost without a new series. Looking forward to your KDM videos
Really interesting video. This game seems so cool but I can't get past the time commitment and getting a consistent play group. I appreciate the honesty in the conversation. Just recently getting into board games and trying to find some good ones for my collection.
Glad to have you in this hobby!
Its funny. We made a similar podcast on my german kdm channel and we came to the same results. I really enjoyed your view on the things and i totally agree. Its the holy grail of boardgaming for me but i understand eveyone who cant engage as much into the game as we did, mainly because of the theme or the money and time invest this game provides. And its not the classic hero rushing crushing monster destroying game many people would search for. Keep going, and greetings :)
Nice! I am glad we matched up - thank you and I will keep it up!
I really really appreciate this format! It is not only honest but also accurate. Keep going on ;)
Glad to hear it! Quack!
I wasn't aware that the pledge manager opened back up again periodically.
I realize that wasn't the intended takeaway from this.
Haha - it does every black friday! Quack!
Thank you for finally putting my mind at ease with the continual challenge I have of wrestling with buying this game.
Damn! Now I'm glad that I cancelled my pledge when the second edition came out. Way too much randomness for my taste. I'll stick with Frostgrave and Rangers of Shadow deep instead 😁
Haha - I need to look them up! :)
Great format indeed!
More to come!
wonderful video, was having a tough time with deciding on this game and based on the time points you brought up, i believe i will wait a year or two before i try getting into this
Great set of videos. Look forward to more in this style. KD was my first board game love. First introduction into mini building, painting, and really board games in general.
I play solo, and even enjoy the pen and paper accounting side of it. But the last time i played i got until the last few lantern years of the people of sun campaign and felt way too overwhelmed playing solo with over 50 pages of character sheets and memos around me. Kind of put me off playing for a bit, but a month has passed and I'm ready to jump back into the madness.
More are on the way! Quack!
All fair points, except perhaps about the theme. Nudity, guts and gore I don't have an issue with, this is a game for grownups not children, which is a part of it appeal.
One point you missed is the multiplayer aspect, you cannot play this game 4 people too many times one player will have to sit out. 2 player is good and 3 player is mostly good. This is mostly due to deaths during hunts which will leave players without anything to do for the entire evening. That is the primary thing I personally hate about the game I love.
Death in the settlement phase is perfectly fine, and tells the story of a grim world.
Still - it does make it wrong for a lot of people and for a large group - I think that is fair even if I have had fun with the groups I have played with. :)
I would actually say the theme is for adolescents, not grownups - it's like 40k in that way, it tries extremely hard to appeal to the edgy teenage boy demographic with some of its theming. A lot of older people find it juvenile. Because, to be honest, some of it absolutely is, which is a shame. If the theming was more *actually* mature, it'd get a LOT more play than it does.
And no, "cracks in the ground" will never be perfectly fine. It's probably the single poorest designed event in any game I've ever played and the only thing I've ever seen that made people quit a game outright on the spot :P
What an interesting concept. When I finish this video- I’ll respond to add to the conversation!
Hope you enjoy it!
Nice shots of the Gigalion. I actually just ordered that and Echoes of Death 2 from Black Friday!
Hey Quack! First of all in imho this is one of your best videos on this channel. Only a big love can provide big pain. And - honestly speaking, this video is full of pain. But I'm with you. Ervey word is totally true and could also be my words.
But something more positive. I won, sry played, this game through 2 times and still love it more then all other games I own. Keep on track Quack, it wont make you happy but it's worth it playing through.
Thanks for this Video. I'm exited which games provide enough soul to talk in this kind of format. Greetings from Austria.
Thanks so much :) your words are 100% true! Quack!
I really liked this video concept. It really works for me. It's like an expanded right for you wrong for you, but also a deeper conversation. I would love to see one like this for Gloomhaven and other big-box higher-priced games (like the games of Vital Lacerda) or games with just a ton of additional content (like Arkham Horror the card game).
I hope I can keep it up :) - need to play them a lot! Quack!
Really appreciate this channel, really like this format!
Thanks! Working on more of them now :)
Love the format of this video, can’t wait to see the other side. Every point you made is valid and spot on... and yet the game is so worth it all !
Haha - I agree with you! Still worth it for sure!
This is by far the best table top game i have ever played.
Yeah! I think this format is fantastic. Especially when the subject of the topic is a game people love and/or have a personal love for it. I've never played KDM, only found out about it thru your channel (is it right for your video), and I seriously can see myself getting the game if I had people around me who would love to put some hours with it.
After doing some research and watching your videos, I believe this game is a type of a game in which, you must commit not only time but, put an effort to get immersed within the game. I'm definitely happy that this game exists, I just hope @kingdomdeath would reply to your tweets sometime soon lol.
Yes - I would never do this format on a game that is already getting beet up or people don't care about.
This is 100% one that takes over for a time :) and I love that about it! I also with they would talk to me.
I agree with pretty much everything and still went all in during Black Friday 2018.
So did I :)
This was a really good video. I too am a die hard KDM fan but I whole heartedly agree with this review.
Thanks so much :) I am glad you checked it out!
Love this format! You did convince me to not buy KDM but I was almost there anyway. Hearing about all the delays and the lack of communication from the company and the price tag to be honest made me hesitant. I am a Gloomhaven fan and I think that I will be kick happier starting with that. Waiting for Frosthaven got next year. I would over to see you do this with Gloomhaven, even though I like it I think you have some awesome opinions. Great job brother!
Hey :) I am glad I could show it off - if you do ever get KDM . . . you should be confident and not cautious! Gloom would be a fun one to dive into!
Excellent format idea, keep it going!
Glad you enjoyed it!
A neighbor randomly gave me like 40 brand new pieces. Prior i had never heard of this game, nor had anyone i know as well. So i looked it up and stumbled on this gem of a video! Dude,thank you for informing me about this. And such an amazing video as well!
Not one of these put me off, as a matter of fact it made my want to get it more. :)
Hahah xD - well - then I hope the other side of the conversation ruins it for you!
Just make sure to share it, my favorite thing about KDM are the crazy and emergent stories. Friends give them texture.
Oh - if you enjoy that GuL . . . Come check the free kdm episode on the Patreon.
same exactly for me, it's just not his game, not that it's a bad game
Same for me
Love KDM (only had since gencon 2019) but time is a major requirement. I definitely got too many games at once and feel like I need to play them before going back to KDM. KDM is definitely a game I'll continue to love long after the other games get old. Problem is more games keep coming. Love more KDM and think this series could be a good one.
Amazing video.
Tabletop Simulator has made the time and accounting point a little less painful for me. Going to check the other video now.
I agree with all your points. The only extra criticism I would give is that it can be somewhat boring for a full group of players....I’ve found that one or two people get really into the mechanics and the others just sit and wait to be told when to roll dice. There’s not a lot of player agency or choice. That being said it is also my holy grail of gaming, far and away my favorite board game and really shines with a couple dedicated players that want to get everything out of it.
Yea - I have had a blast in my groups but I can see that for some players for sure!
All very valid points. Still love the game though. I tend to play with a couple of house rules that mitigate ridiculous brutality. I have no shame about altering the things that would otherwise keep me from getting it to the table. I may not get the bragging rights of beating the game on hard mode, but I get to experience the content and the rush of a win amongst so many brutal defeats.
Play the game how is it fun :)
My only main house rule is I never lose BOTH survivors if I fail an intimacy roll. It's just too brutal.
What an interesting video series! I hope it does well and we get more really high profile games. For my part, your last point hits the hardest especially in the world we're living in. Who knows where we'll be a year down the line much less three or five!
Yea . . . I feel that. I have changed so much and my life has changed so much over the last few years - who knows when I am 30 :)
I have not yet included any expansion (yet, I have played more than 100 hours or 150 I forgot) :-) And yet I have 5 that are, if I may say so, beautifully painted. I spent at least as much time (probably more) on painting the minis :-)
I took forever on my first few minis XD
What a great video. Cant w8 for the next game in this format :-)
Haha have any ideas?
@@Quackalope Terraforming Mars, Cloudspire, Dominion, Massive Darkness 1, Tainted Grail, Eclipse
Love this format. Thanks for uploading
Thank u for your previus work! I d love to see this format for middara too! Great job man!
Cool idea. Scythe, Root, and Twilight Imperium 4 would be good ones I think.
Oh! Two of those I can do . . . Like tomorrow :P
I would love to see one on twilight imperium, great suggestion!
Maybe Vast?
More Root is always good! And @Quackalope... i would -love- an 8 player Twilight Imperium 4e game once the expansion hits w/ you, Jan, and BoardgameCo! It would be a Marathon, needed to be broken up in multiple vids but... oh my yes.
I would love to do it - but gathering than many people and figuring out production would be the challenge - :)
Really nice format! I'll leave a sub and am looking forward to your upcoming work.
Love this format. Super interested in KDM so this was really helpful. Would love to see more vids like this especially of games you really like. Keep up the good work!
That is the plan! Quack!
I feel the exact same way about the game. I love the vibe, and it has given me an amazing hobby, but the only reason anyone actually likes the game is because they are too monetarily invested to be objective about it. Warhammer has the same issues. I own the fact that I am never going to finish it, I will never see everything it has to offer, and that if I am going to enjoy the game, I basically have to write my own ruleset just to enjoy myself. But still, I don't regret a single second or cent spent with it. I need Poots to be more transparent and forthcoming about the future of the game before I will pre-order any more content. I will only buy product when it is available on the website, and only if it is actually relevant to the game. No more single figures.
Yea I can understand that for sure! Still no regrets :)
@@Quackalope I am an all in sort of person
@@HeathAldrich So am I :) Quack!
Enjoyed the format. I agree with all the points and still consider this one of my all time favorite games. My group played every week for 14 months and beat it the first time through. My only regret is purchasing the later expansions because I doubt they will ever get played. One of the things that has always confuses me is why I can enjoy kingdom death monster but am often repelled by other games with dark themes.
Haha - I can't help you with the them XD or why you enjoy it! I think the gameplay is very solid so that might help!
I picked this up on during their yearly Black Friday sale. This is worth mentioning as it lessens the price issue a little. I was waiting to play this with a friend but after watching you other video I may just forge ahead and play on my own as i think it looks awesome!
That was a perfect spot on guide. But yes still play the game, but the frustrations and the downsides are totally backed from my side. Special the last to. To keep Tracy on the hit and damage numbers while rolling the dices are hard. But most of all. The delay, and the lack of communication from KDM, I also ordered the Kickstarter for more that 5 years ago. And I still haven't received all I ordered. They just keep posponing, and it's so frustrating. I didn't wanna start the game untill I had it all. And now my excitement for the game is gone. In the beginning I was so excited, but now I'm just like. Meehh...
But then me and 2 friends tried out the game any way. And it's a perfect game. I don't regret getting it. But the downside you are pointing out are so correct. specially the last to. And Specially the last one. Because it was not needed, if Adam and KDM just keeps their timeline or just took their Kickstarter supporter more seriously. It could have been avoided. A little delay is ok, but not this long.
Would love to see a Root version of this. Thinking about pre-ordering all of it together before it sells out again.
We have a full right for you / wrong for you that you may want to check out :) - Root is on the list though!
Shut Up and Sit down did a wonderful job as explaining the good and bad of Root!
I'm sorry to say this (as an all in KD:M fan not fanboy) but the first thing I saw from you was your first interview with Adam and I thought "Oh no, not another fanboy with nothing but the same questions that any reviewer that never played KD:M would ask" but these two videos are just great. Kudos to you. Hell, I'm even giving a thums up for both. :) Keep doing these videos (even the criticals) you got a new subscriber here.
Thanks so much :) I am really glad both have been top quality - for someone who is a KDM fan! I am right there with you
I'm 34 and have a core friend group that meets for three day weekends about 4 times a year. Years ago was at a crossroads between Gloomhaven and KDM. Chose Gloomhaven, based on this video it seems I made the right choice. With our silly schedule, we feel a lot of pressure to not fail scenarios for fear of retreading content on a time crunch.
I'll also add that while playing with friends in person is an irreplaceable experience, games with deep mechanics like this often made us feel that a computer doing the "dark accounting" you're talking about would make the game go much faster and be more enjoyable. This turned out to be totally true in our experience, the PC version of Gloomhaven is excellent and much faster, for the tabletop we farmed out a lot of the calculation to an app called Gloomhaven Helper, which had similar effects. I wonder if KDM will ever be a videogame...I know that sidelines a lot of the hobbyist appeal though.
I feel like KDM is the 40k for boardgamers, large hobby portion & cost.
That said its still my favourite game to get to the table, its a puzzle in risk mitigation. I fully agree the time commitment to progress is insane ive hit the end once in about 12 attempts average years take about an hour and a half for me.
The flower knight is a great expansion and is like tuning the difficulty down a step if you are looking for that. Alternatively just removing the murder event while a houserule can also ease up some of the punishment and is personal preference.
I agree about 40k :P and doing some house rules can certainly save the day!
Thousands of dollar in cost may be true but it is still cheaper than most war games. I have spent more on Fallout Wasteland Warfare and probably 10x more on 40k over the years.
Haha - for sure! XD for a BG it is crazy - not the hobby market it leans into!
Solid video, info always appreciated. Gotta this man more subs!
I played this game for the first time yesterday and I had a miserable time. I really appreciate your videos on it, you went into a lot of detail and hit similar points that I felt both positive and negative. I think I would rather do literally anything else though rather than play this over complicated and just unfun game. I think it's unfun and hard for the sake of being unfun and hard.
For the money I'd rather invest in WH40K, Magic the Gathering, or Gloomhaven and a stack of other board games. They're fun, complex, and don't make me wish I had hours of my life back after playing them (my wallet feels differently but that's here nor there)
"Havent made it to the end yet" ya that rulebook is way too pristine
Hahah - that rule book has about 100 hours in it :) - I am very protective.
I made this comment sort of poking fun midway through the video about your rule book, we had to replace our rulebook because it was falling apart, it fell off of laps, had a broken spine and had pages well used. I in no way wanted to diminish your use of time or hrs spent playing. When in all seriousness it truely does come down to TIME. Not that I saw you as old or young, it just wasnt in my mind. I will be 32 come September, and it was wholesome, funny and depressing when you talked about if you will be into this when you are 30. It's scary to think about this game and time....am I wasting it? How would this play out if I had kids, a spouse, if I wasnt where I was now due to my past relationship? Kingdom Death is all consuming, I have the core, expansions, the 3d terrain, the fan content from your coverage, my roommate and I are making fan content, i made a board game table, bought a massive display case, I mod and paint the models, all for KDM. I work semi full time/part time, so that supports the habit, but I find KDM taking away from other things I could be spending my time on. Our time is insanely valuable. A coworker was like why dont you do this, and I had to explain that it wasnt worth my time.
Kdm is a glorious game if you have the time, your book and minis show that, I dont mean for that to be negative. The time you spend is creating glorious content, and I cant wait for more, cant wait to spend my valuable time watching them. I dont make it through all of your videos and sometimes they are on in the background, but the KDM content is what I'm here for.
I cant stand to watch people just play or teach KDM, no one has truely captured it. I think if you kept things short and sweet and leaned into the story aspect, told us your unique character names and maybe played SOTF so they'd stay around longer you could make content on play by plays of those characters. I dont want to tell you how to create, I'm sure what you make KDM related will be awesome, and I'll watch it. (Sorry novel).
Keep up the great work Jesse.
I like the format and honesty - it is what it is. Maybe, Gloomhaven and Tainted Grail would fit this? Really anything that requires a huge investment of time/money is worth looking at from both sides.
Quack! :) working on them!
First time on this channel and I have got to say, you have one of the most in depth descriptions of a review I have ever seen. Listening to your opinions seem very honest and unbiased. This video was 5 reasons not to buy this game but instead what I took was a bunch of reasons why this game is cool and a bunch of reasons why it is not. If I was planning on buying this game you would have legit told me everything I needed to know before my purchase. I'm deff going to be looking at this channel for more of your reviews!
Nice video. I was scared off from getting Gloomhaven because of the implied time commitment. That means I never felt the slightest temptation to buy KDM, but so many people seem to love it that I've always wondered at the attraction. For me the turn-offs are the dark theme, the cost, building & painting the minis, and the amount of time the game requires.
I think those are all reasonable!
I don't care about the dark theme, but agree with the other turn-offs.
An extra turn-off for me is the lack of a pdf rulebook. Not having the search function to quickly find a rule during play is kinda annoying. But the bigger problem is that whenever I think about buying a game, I prefer to go trough the rulebook beforehand, to then determine if the game is right for me.
Not having the option to check on the specifics of gameplay, makes me extremely hesitant to buy any boardgame, combined with all the other barriers, I don't see me buying this game any time soon.
Even as a backer on Kickstarter, who got in on the best deals they had in limited quantity on Frogdog level that included every single expansion, and add-on possible, backing the first and second campaign ran $1856, which does not include shipping for the large amount of stuff that has yet to actually ship.
On top of that, picking up all one off add-ons he has released since 2014 through the KD web site ran an additional $1461, and that was not even close to all of them, since many of them sell out in minutes of the email announcing them go out. So it is essentially impossible to buy all the content for the game, since large amounts of it are sold in very limited quantities and are *POOF* gone before you can even get a chance to buy them even if you want to. Even "reprints" of figures and content sell out in minutes to hours, with the coolest miniatures that include game cards going so fast that unless you are specifically watching for them every single day you will miss them.
So that is $3317.80 for the "bulk" of the game, at very high and no longer possible discounts. I cant even imagine how much trying to get all of that would cost now. I would imagine double to triple that price, if it is even possible to get it all.
wow, well done video, randomly came across you channel and you definitely just got another sub
Only just found KD this year via a post sharing the monsters and fell in love immediately. Unfortunately, in watching this *very* informative video, I am very certain I am not going to be getting it. Ignoring all the hurdles of gameplay, the price is definitely a sticking point. I'm probably just going to end up collecting a few of the models I find most interesting and leave it there.
Thank for such an informative video, critiques of media by those who love it are among the most valuable one can find when trying to judge if that media is something you're going to enjoy.
Ive had my finger on the trigger with this game for months now.. You're one of the few reviewers that can hold my attention with this kind of in depth conversation! Very solid dude 🙂👍 thx for the video!
But it, build it, dive deep into it
Thanks so much - hope we helped you get a feel for it :)
Great format!
Thanks!!
I honestly don't think I would have enjoyed KDM if my first experience was getting the core box. But because I first experienced a heavily scripted TTS mod, it handled so many things for me.
Oh and don't forget King's Coin ;-)
Haha - see I would not have liked it if TTS was my first swing :) I just put up with TTS.
So appreciate you looking at the reasons we might not like it. I have too many new games at the moment to be able to focus so much time to only 1 game! I'll have to look at it later :)
Let me know :)
Hi Jesse! I subscribed to your channel from Alex at Boardgame Co's suggestion. No KDM for me, because I don't want nudity in the house scarring my kiddos if they get into it, and I choose not to view nudity or sexual content for myself either. You seem well- versed with the game and I'd like to ask:
I have pledges for Aeon Trespass Odyssey and Oathsworn. Do either of those 2 games seem to have a scope or premise akin to kdm? If not, is there another, more appropriate game you would suggest that does?
Glad to have you here!
They each make interesting promises and many seem to think they will deliver. If I am honest - I don't expect them to win me over from KDM and the new things Poots is producing. However, I am very interested in them both!
@@Quackalope alright, very cool! We shall play the wait and see game. I hope we wind up with a family friendly epic gaming experience out of it! Thanks for having me!
I had the same experiences, but i didnt go full in on the game as you did. I bought the 1.5 game as a Kickstarter backer and i started the game several times with different gaming groups and friends. Each one of these groups thought i was crazy for paying that much for this game but wanted to give it a try and actually they gave it 2-3 tries each bc they felt bad for my investment. But in the end all of them said "i'm out!" because this game is so relentless and unforgiving that all of them lost the interest in playing it. It makes you really feel depressed about all that happens. You might start good and kill Lions and get good ressources. But then you suddenly draw "Murder" two times in a row and loose all your experienced fighters, just a lantern year before the Butcher arrives...
And this is not even close to encounters later on, but it was enough to demotivate experienced and grown up player groups.
So after 1-2 years i sold the game because i didnt have anyone in my surroundings who would like to play this with me and playing it alone is possible but it just isnt the same when you laugh at each other for being unlucky with our rolls only to get headchomped by a head targeting attack from a monster.
Thanks for the review and i hope you wont loose players faster then your settlers XD
this is my first video of yours i've watched and im subbing! You're so well spoken to do this in one take, and your critiques are sincere and clearly show how much you care about the medium. Looking forward to seeing your other videos ^^
Thank you so much!! Quack!
Okay, so post video comment :D Phenomenal, as always, but I have to agree, I've only played one game on TTS, and the game is so much work. I love hard games, I play Arkham, but one thing I love is getting attached to a character, pimping them out, doing cool stuff, and here, bad dice rolls and it's all over, regardless of what's happening. It just feels bad sometimes. I find the silence to be kinda strange, but not deal breaking. Maybe the thing that puts me off the most is the theme, Arkham is a bit out there, but it's always fairly tame for family to maybe see (ignoring any particularly sensitive family). I wouldn't even want people googling KDM let along seeing it. That on top of the setup time, actually building mini's instead of just opening a box of phenomenal mini's puts this in the TTS category for me. TTS is the perfect environment for me to play this in personally, but I miss out on that tabletop feel that I know you love. Too rambling but keep it up, you robot impersinator you :D
Post video Post comment, comment responce!
I would agree it is a lot of work :) and you should not fall in love! Granted . . . I still do! However you should not!
The game 100% feels bad . . . almost all the time! I also, understand the art style :P - It is not for most people!
Beep. . . beep... boop.
Finally got a chance to watch this, great points and basically everything I was thinking, especially time, people and money. I'll probably still get it in the future, but I don't NEED it immediately. Thank you 😊
Sound just like it's not your type of game, and not because it's a bad game. I was slightly interested in the game but the more you talked about it, the more i wanted to play it so I got the mod on Tabletop simulator and will play a game soon. Thanks for the recommendation
Hey :) - I would encourage you to check out the paired video to this one! I am glad I could show off KDM to you - if it still sounds right for you - I am sure you will love it!
Hello. So I do have a comment and many questions. I'm very new to board gaming, maybe 6 months now. I would say that I have collected 20 or so games over this time and only played 2 of them. There are no board game communities around my area and, due to the nature of my job, I live alone. 2 days ago I ordered Kingdom Death: Monster 1.5 and it is currently en route to me. I have no figure building experience and no character painting experience. What is the best way for me to enjoy this game solo? What tools should I purchase so that I can attempt the character builds and should I even attempt to paint them? Also, what other things will I need to purchase to maximize the storage efficiency of the game? I am afraid that I may have bitten off too much for such a beginner. Any feedback would be invaluable and appreciated.
Cheers!
This is fantastic! But you won’t scare me away! Kingdom Death has already twisted my mind. I play on TTS for reasons already discussed in this vid lol I want the physical game for sure. Two games I would love to see you cover in this format are D&D and Kilforth. In the past two months I have put over 100 hours into Gloom of Kilforth and Shadows of Kilforth (both games combined together) And prior to those games I put almost 100 hours into KDM on TTS. I have only ever played KDM solo and have only gotten to the Phoenix. Wonderful job! Have you tried the Kilforth games or any games from Hall or Nothing Productions?
I have not tried them yet - but I am googling them now :)
Really enjoyed this format. Critiquing what we love is a really valuable discussion and it gives other people, who might not be as familiar with the topic, a rather unique insight.
Thanks! That is the hope :)
Great video. I have been wanting this game forever and trying to not spoil anything I feel you have gave me great enough insight to understand what I'm getting into without major spoilers! Fantastic!
you forgot the Continental limitation and import/export costs, plus lack of global warehouses or publishment in hobby stores ....
True - although not something I thought of due to living in the states.
Love the format
I just watched both videos on KDM and you are really selling it well. Do more games like this
On the subject of randomness, what I’ve learned after 500+ hours into this game is that while the game is heavy RNG and the dice can just choose whether you win or lose sometimes, you can mitigate a lot of this by planning. By planning I mean by ordering your turns correctly in a fight, deciding who to bring on each hunt/nemesis encounter, what weapon proficiencies to prioritize, spreading gear well, and what innovations to get. And this may sound really basic but I mean your planning must start from the beginning of the game and payoff at the end of the game. I:E, always having someone master fist and tooth starting at the prologue by throwing a founding stone at the white lion at the start to get a guaranteed +1 strength, making sure the survivors in front of the white lion move to the sides and attack first so they don’t get grabbed on reaction. Another would be NOT taking your best survivors to phoenix but taking only your youngest ones so they don’t age out. Or storing your survivors who are gold smoke knight ready so they don’t die. Or do things like finding exploits in the game. (Infinite insanity from white lion + immortal = unkillable via damage, husk of destiny + slender man secret fighting art = untargetable infinite movement and extra strength roll, double dagger mastery = turn 1 kill) I could go on and on about how you could side things in your favor, but I will say that no new player/group would know this and would get creamed immediately. And a lot of the cool stuff is in the expansions, and a lot of the good stuff, base kdm is rough and the only way to beat gold smoke night would be stuff like red charm, crit builds, phoenix armor plus big strength stats and the like. Tho the worst part about this game is the settlement events like plague and cracks in the ground, if you get plague within 2-3 lantern years just restart, if not then rush bloodletting and ammonia so you make it through easy. But cracks in the ground is just stupid, same with murder, where you are pretty much guaranteed to lose a survivor. Tho I guess with murder you could age a useless guy with phoenix so he’s higher hunt exp than everyone and will just be the fall guy for that event.
Great discussion. I enjoy the format; an honest discussion on the problems with a game. There should be more of this, as gamers we tend to over look these issue due to our rose covered glasses for a game we love.
Thank you for this vid.
#3 - investing so many hours just to lose over and over and over is the most frustrating, fun-hindering aspect of this awesome game for me.
I believe the Community Edition updates can help mitigate those poor odds (I don't really think Campaign of Death's corrections will help make it easier, no sir).
I can totally understand that frustration! I think some game changes to mediate that can help people experience it!
Great job brother
Thank you!
You left out the main reason. It's not Aeon Trespass Odyssey.
No. :P
Aeon Trespass Odyssey has me curious. Not for the KDM aspect but... exploration. @BoardGameCo, you talked me into Aeon and Oathsworn w/ your videos.
Haha - I am intrigued by both of them - but no where near as hopeful as others.
Haha ... good joke. I like your sense of humor ... ;P Without KD:M there is no AT:O ... it's only a clone of KD:M with some (nice?) modifications.
What are some alternatives to KDM for solo playing?