As someone who has been to rehab a few times, I watched this special right before my last trip, and it very much speaks to me. As an addict, yes there are a lot of dark things you know you need to contend with, but at least for me, I need to be able to make light of them too. I have so many stories that are hilarious to me but horrifying to other people, but if you let those things stay horrifying in your own mind then you run the risk of letting yourself fall back in to that dark place again. I feel like this special was made by an addict FOR addicts. It may seem shallow, and in some ways it is, but I think he sums in up best when he says about the Rolex story, "That was a story I was willing to tell you."
i was about to comment the same thing. i’m not an addict, but i have some pretty dark traumas. my sister has a lot of the same ones, so this special reminded me of how we talk to each other. laughing over shared trauma is so cathartic and comforting because you know that you don’t need to explain yourself, we both know that this is messed up and exactly how it feels, so we can cut the chatter of trying to get someone to empathize. the details of the situations are more nuanced because they’re broadly the same, but the funny quirks of those experiences can be so isolating without someone to laugh alongside you. this was a great video and analysis! it really made me digest this special from some new angles
EXACTLY! Comedy is subjective and all, but I came here to say that I disagree with the notion that John should’ve been more somber. No way! For one, this was a show for addicts imo. But even aside from that, addiction hardly needs to be laboriously spelled out for any audience, especially in a comedy routine. If he had gotten up there and was super detailed in recounting his life story, was sad and serious it REALLY would’ve been unlike John and it would’ve been just another addiction sob story. Addiction sucks, as does most of life. That’s literally what stand up comedy is about. Mocking life’s crushing blows by laughing in its face. We cry when we begin to heal, but we laugh once the wounds have closed.
i know i have made some of the dumbest decisions of my life on coke that i would never do sober because they really do dissociate you from your real self
While ultimately the creator of this video argues that its not necessary, multiple other comedians have been able to approach even this detachment with more tenderness/curiosity. Hell, I would say "This is not happening" is pretty much entirely predicated on this very thing.
12:43 did you miss the point of why he returned to that cadence? In the story he's telling, he's high on coke. It tracks well with the insinuation that the drugs are why his delivery was high paced in previous specials. It's like how he's similarly animated when he's talking about the first night in the rehab
@@thequestion8697 after the weird shane gillis video and now this I have lost faith in this guys' ability to critically analyze comedy. His Inside video made me a fan but he's lost me tbh
i think when you are talking about how his delivery comes back to energetic unironically its because he is acting out a moment when he is high and unreasonable, in a way he is still referencing how he was back then
I had this same thought! But in all fairness to CWE, most of the special is John talking about things that happened before he went to Rehab, so it can feel like a bit of a cop out - maybe it's fair to say, yeah, he was telling one of his high-energy classic joke styles.
"Baby J" was my favorite comedy special in such a long time. Also, he does mention his son and his divorce. And he has given more vulnerable interviews. That doesn't necessarily have to be his stand-up act. I thought Baby J was his best work to date.
IDK, I don't think I really want deep introspection from Mulaney in one of his specials. I'm there because I like the style of comedy he puts out. Personally, I was actually really worried going into this special that it would get super serious and sad. He also doesn't owe us any glimpses into his life. If there are things he doesn't want to go into detail about, that's his right. The only thing the comedian owes an audience is jokes.
I'll take what he wants to put out, but I think you're right that Mulaney shouldn't be compelled to deliver an hour of introspective angst just because it's a trend in comedy (a trend I love, but a trend nonetheless.) Mulaney never went that deep before. Maybe that's a product of his desire to put on a facade to hide all this stuff, which obviously became a destructive instinct. But it may just be that he's not that kind of comedian, and the "why" of it doesn't matter. Of course, his personal woes became a matter of public record for the simple reason that celebrities aren't really afforded enough privacy, especially when their personality is a central part of their brand, as is the case for any comedian. And had he simply not mentioned any of it, the silence would have been deafening, as it is with Louis CK's profound lack of introspection about his own public woes. I don't think Mulaney owed his audience his introspection. But I think, given that he trades on his persona, his public scandals affect that persona, whether or not he or his audience like it. This is probably going to be the only deep dive we get about his addiction troubles, for the simple reason that he's more interested in covering other matters with his comedy. And he made sure to keep a barrier between himself and his audience. "This is the stuff I'm willing to tell you." I think it was necessary to just clear the air, and not leave people wondering, "What's REALLY going on with John?" But I suspect, for the most part, he'll be back to just being silly John Mulaney soon enough, and leave train wreck John behind.
I've always felt that this special is almost a mockery of what social media posters want from John: A sobering recollection of his past sins and to apologize or sob to them about getting a divorce. When he approaches the darkness and pulls right back out again, i see it as him marking a line in the sand like he's saying "I'm here to entertain you, you're not my therapist and if the dark truth isn't funny it isn't yours to see"
Thats all fine and good but that doesn't mean the end result is good comedy/performance. I thought it was fine but by far the worst full length Mulaney special, precisely because I found a lot of that "approaching the darkness and pulling back" as pretty tedious and neither very funny or cathartic.
@@4thcutiemarkcrusaderis that true? There are comedians that go up to that line, Mullaney isn't one of them. That's ok. I think this creator does a good job of interrogating his expectations and balancing it with what he enjoyed about the special. I'm not sure what else we could demand as an audience. I feel like alot of the critical comments are just perturbed he's being critiqued at all.
He's an entertainer and this is his medium. He doesn't owe us any realism. We demand that of him which is why so many people were so shocked of his fall. He only addressed his addiction because it would have been weird not to. He doesn't need to go deep, that's not for us. I think you're expecting more than you're owed.
That was my take as well and I think that may be where some of the quick cut offs in storytelling and his overly performative demeanor may be coming from. We're not his friends, we're not his family, we're his income source and we're not owed every detail of his life and drug and alcohol induced downfall, nor his undoubtedly dark experiences in rehab, his divorce, and recovery. He told us a lot of banger jokes, but we're not really there for a full psychological breakdown, therapist assessment, and show of remorse. And we're certainly not entitled to that either.
lol I feel the exact opposite; I spend a lot of time in AA groups and a lot of addicts won’t shut the hell up about all the terrible things they did and how terribly they feel about it.
@@samuelhoward7213 Ok so that's addict to addict. And also in active recovery. Remember, he says that right out of rehab Mulaney was more open! But there's idk, I'm not gonna speculate on John, but the addict I'm closest with definitely has a really hard time opening up about CERTAIN emotional things. He'll tell me all the awful things he does but like the video says, it's like telling stories about a character, not himself.
I think the minimal mention of his divorce was likely due to an NDA. His ex wife’s recent memoir also perplexingly leaves Mulaney out completely, despite that being the main promotional draw of the book.
@@4thcutiemarkcrusader agreed! But I do think it’s interesting what he chooses to share and what he withholds. He even comments on the nature of the information he’s willing to share vs not in the special.
I saw this special live twice: once in Las Vegas and once in MSG in NYC. Both times, his performance felt raw, genuine, and hilariously unfiltered. I was so excited for it to be released on Netflix. When the actual special came out, it was absolutely missing something that made it so good in the live shows. It almost felt like he wrote the jokes past their ripe. In the interest of joke writing, I believe he tried to perfect them so much that he lost the rawness which was supposed to be the entire point.
I also saw this on tour and I think part of what was missing was that in the live shows he also asks to talk to someone from the audience who has been to rehab. The audience member, who is likely from where the show takes place brings it home. They bring up that their intervention may have been at a local restaurant or one of the outings was to a small town everyone knows about. For me I think that was what brought the show the vulnerability and rawness that you are talking about. However having this type of interaction recorded and put on Netflix could lead to privacy issues and they would need heavy legal vetting. Thoughts?
I feel like on tour he felt more comfortable being raw and vulnerable because those jokes weren't going to get out of that room and the audience was one that wasn't hostile to him, but on the Netflix special he was more guarded because the content is public and there it will be analyzed and scrutinized, especially considering the reactions that happened to the divorce, would be having an audience ready to use his vulnerability against him
This is what comedians do. their process is cutting and re-working and refining until they get it "perfect" to record. As a performer I can also offer insight that he probably closed himself off a bit for recording because it's one thing for just a full (albeit large) theatre to see you say things you've done that you aren't proud of and be raw and open it's another to know it's going out to the world and you no longer know who the hell will see it. Like one day his kids will see his comedy so he also might have dialed it a different direction a bit for their sake. I can't speak to his motives obviously, but a recording will never feel the same as a live show.
7:37 I kinda like the fact that he didn't get too into the details. The details probably aren't as funny as the story, AND it separates his comedy from just being story telling. I think it's healthy for the audience and Mulaney to have that distance where we don't know the full story
I think this is an incredibly well written critique of the content & delivery of Baby J as a comedy special... in a vacuum. Unfortunately the thesis of the argument falls flat for me because it seems contingent on the idea that Baby J owed us some kind of cathartic and vulnerable explanation about where Mulaney has been recently, based on personal information about him that we found out whether he wanted us to know or not. And in turn any critique of what it could have or should have been to hit harder is psychoanalyzing where Mulaney's mind should be been or what he should have said. But if that what he was thinking or wanted to say, it's likely he would have just said it. Mulaney's comedy style has always been giving us just enough information to laugh at a ridiculous story, and also think to ourselves "wow that's kinda messed up," if you take a second to consider it. He's never been one to give massive amounts of vulnerable details, especially not within a standup special. Baby J is the same level of vulnerable as any former Mulaney special, and that's okay because it never really owed us any more vulnerability than that. Mulaney never chose to divulge the personal information we got to ruminate on before the special started. This is the first time we've had a situation where, in anticipation for a special, we've been wondering if he was going to address something specific rather than going in blind and letting him set up his own topic, details, and ensuing stories. Baby J might not be enlightening about the darker details of Mulaney's last few years. But it absolutely feels like an authentic and recognizable return for a self-admitted life-long addict and human being trying to continue the comedy career that was almost derailed when a bunch of private matters that no one truly knows the reality of and which he never gave us any reason to believe he wanted us to know, became public discussion topics.
This is how I feel with retrospect as well. Man told us about countless blackout stories it seemed like and he drank *a whole bottle of perfume* he wore a suit on stage and looked out together so people just kinda assumed that about him cause he's charming and funny and clearly successful, but I really don't think he was out there ever perpetuating this "I'm a cookie cutter chill vanilla guy" idea that a lot of people falsely ascribed to him. Baby J felt solidly in line with his other specials to me.
I think you’re right that he’s a bit surfacey. And I think you’re also right in that we might be asking too much to expect otherwise. Considering just how recent the whole relapse/rehab experience is, the idea that Mulaney has processed his history and motivations enough to dig that deeply and make it funny seems like a tall order. I think it’s key that he points out, after the Rolex story, that these are the stories he is willing to share. There is more going on he’s not willing to share. I’m sure he’s not done dealing with it all, and, as long as he knows that, I’m fine letting him have his boundaries. I do think we can demand too much vulnerability out of public figures. He took a lot of heat for being publicly happy about becoming a father when we all know the timing of it is not something any therapist would recommend. But since his plan was clearly to go forward with it, telling everyone that he’s scared or might actually be ambivalent about having a baby would just hurt the kid. That’s a story you tell with your adult child next to you, secure in your love, not when it’s all still happening. Are we truly concerned that the polished performance means he’s pretending things are cleaner than they are or do we just want to be able to say “I knew it” if things get bad for him again?
I always thought the subtitle "A Wide Ranging Conversation" was a reference to the last joke in the set where he does that interview while coked out of his mind and the interviewer described the interview as "a wide ranging conversation"
I feel like the koala bear's changing callback is more there to show the dichotomy between his two selves, the drug addict and the father, not necessarily to show how far he has come but to show the split in worlds.
when watching this i got quite heated, but I want to emphasize that if you have a strong need for vulnerability in stand-up comedy then maybe look further into yourself. 1) we shouldn’t have expectations for former drug addicts to be vulnerable. (doesn’t feel great, just a weird pressure to put on someone) 2) if your looking for vulnerability go watch interviews or a drama or something that can satisfy that urge All i’m saying is that in all respect I don’t think that there needed to be vulnerability in the show. (other than that good job on the vid, editing was good)
Well said! Why not just demand a print out of his medical records? If you want to listen to stories of addicts told with true vulnerability, there are plenty of places to find that. I don’t know why one would demand it of a comedy special. It was a vulnerable story to divulge. We already got far more than we were ever entitled to.
I don’t think the argument is that vulnerability is required, it’s far more that Mulaney kinda promised vulnerability and then didn’t deliver to an extent that was worthwhile.
@@shadeofthelamp1218 honestly that’s a very good point, and to be honest I didn’t think that the maker of the video essay meant he needed it, but the fact that he was underwhelmed with the amount of vulnerability in the special, was were I was getting so heated over. (now this is might be me misunderstanding some stuff here and if I’m wrong feel free to correct me). Idk if John Mulaney did say that he will get vulnerable during the show, yes the title card does say ‘A Wide Ranging Conversation’, but keep in mind that’s a reference to the interview at the end. Also a wide ranging conversation doesn’t necessarily mean vulnerability, it could just mean a bunch of new and interesting topics. In the show after Mulaney tells the watch story he states “that’s what he’s willing to share”, which feels like him setting up a personal boundary and the fact we don’t see him get more vulnerable than the watch story and the interview, tells us the point at which he feels uncomfortable. Thank you for bringing this up, it was a good point and if you would like to elaborate further on it, i’m genuinely all ears. If not all good have a lovely holidays.
I feel validated in this comment. I'm a little bit past the criticism about the phone call at rehab, and I couldn't help but feel weird. Like: "Sounds like this guy just wants a TED talk from John Mulany about his addiction instead of making a stand-up set with dark humor intended for laughter."
@@shadeofthelamp1218The special was also criticized for being too dark and vulnerable. It's really a subjective thing, and he got a lot of backlash for the stuff he did share, so I think it's best to just enjoy the jokes and the amount of stuff he willingly shared.
This isnt totally directed at this video alone but in general I feel like the think pieces about JM and what he didnt share are just people being (at least partly)furstrated they didnt get the tea. And/or people who feel entitled to answers and details because they were invested.
As someone who has also struggled with addiction/rehab, I often cannot share what are ultimately very humiliating and dark stories without extreme comedic detachment. Respectfully, I think he may just be doing the heavy introspective work in private, and that's alright with me. After the heaviness of things like "Inside" and "Rothaniel" getting "Baby J" felt like a hug from an old friend.
This special means a lot to me. I actually got sent to residential treatment for self harm the exact same day he got sent to rehab (dec 18). My favorite part is when, after previously saying baby changing stations are useless except to do cocaine off of, he later comes back and realizes that he needs to use one for its actual intended purpose. It's such a small moment but it really resonated with me, i spent so long repairing my relationships with inanimate objects that i had previously used to hurt myself.
12:20 This entire segment of the video is something that makes me question your entire thesis statement. Mulaney highlighting how as a younger man, he was coked out of his mind onstage, and then later miming how he was coked out of his mind walking into his own intervention are related. He was a cokehead. He's mimicking how he used to behave, and he's doing it in a way that is exaggerated, but highlights how his previous behavior was bad. He never describes it positively, it's always described and acted out as a negative thing. The whole bit is "Hey I acted like a cokehead onstage, but got away with it, but behind the scenes this was also how I was and it was bad" EDIT: This is clearly a stylistic thing where you would prefer John Mulaney to be more open, raw, and vulnerable, which has never really been his style. He's always been light and absurd, which makes him talking about these heavy subjects interesting (and absurd in terms of his comedy persona, which is usually light). James Acaster is also someone who works very absurd and very offbeat, but he has never shied away from getting incredibly serious in the moment in his specials. Both of them are incredible comics, but it's a weird parallel to make.
In the best way, I disagree with your take - I think it takes a lot of strength to come out and tell everyone the stories of when you are at your most vulnerable. Some people cope in different ways, and if that’s through comedy and his stand up shows, that’s his way of coping. I know comedy is subjective, but I think it was really funny and heartwarming despite the darkness of his situation. It gave me hope during times I felt stuck like he did. This may just be my take, but I think you are way overthinking this, I’m sorry.
12:44 he’s acting as his addicted self right? It makes even more sense that he’s doing his old schtick. I liked the video but I don’t think this is a good criticism.
Only partially related, but I think Mulaney's best work isn't his stand-up (which I do love), but The Sack Lunch Bunch, which I watch once a year and is a perfectly formed object that dabbles in his weird ironic distance in ways clever and touching. The songs are also great.
Sack Lunch Bunch is outstanding! Something about the tone is perfect for Mulaney’s voice. Childlike but mature, ironic but sincere. And Jake Gyllenhaal obv haha
@@ComedyWithoutErrors I completely agree! I really hope he gets commissioned to make more, it's a brilliant format. I love how much spotlight he puts on the kids too. Not to mention David Byrne
It so interesting hearing someone talk about this special, when it first came out I remember how excited I was and then I saw the special and most of the jokes didn't really land with me... I wasn't sure why but the points you menioned put some of those thoughts into words, thank u
Bro, I just listened to you for a half an hour and all I got was you came into the special with some pre-expectations and when they weren’t met, you perceived it as bad. It was a solid special from someone going through a change in their life come on, dude
I will say as someone who saw the show while it was still From Scratch but very close to it being Baby J - the biggest thing that was missing in the Netflix special was this set he did about his son and the baby formula shortage - it was very timely so makes sense he cut it for something that was gonna live on past the one performance but it really connected his past and present as he joked about using his drug finding abilities to get more formula for his son. It really showed a new side of him as he talked about his son
Go see live shows if you want more authenticity. Having seen this tour live, there was a huge difference to the special. You want to be tricked into feeling like you're in the room with someone, but there isn't a substitute for that.
You were so thorough, the answer is in your analysis: Mulaney has such need for positive attention (and he is aware of it) that he can't risk the cruel vulverability of self-examination the way Acaster for example does. Consequently, he'll never achieve that level of connection with the audience and the chance to create something truly meaningful. And I say that as a fan of both of them, and comedy in general. Mulaney is too aware of his public persona and gutted by the response to its latest unravelling to prob it deeper. still, i enjoy his comedy for what it is. insightful video!
Acaster's established on-stage persona is completely different, where in terms of tone both his early irreverent routines and his more confessional aren't nearly as "at odds" (so to speak) with each other as the perception of Mulaney's "split" personality. the gulf doesn't seem nearly as wide, where to bridge that gap would feel like way more a stretch. (same with Carmichael, who's always had a very laid-back and introspective demeanor, even pre-Rothaniel.) also James doesn't have nearly as big of a platform and audience base as John does. hopefully that'll change-i'm of the belief that Acaster should be one of the absolute biggest standups of his generation, rather than the relatively niche/cult status he's had for too long. but maybe even his ego would also swallow itself whole, who knows?
I wish he had been aware enough to not hurt and embarrass his ex so thoroughly and publicly. Aware of his own need for attention and aware of how to save face by pushing others in the path of destruction
@chelscara It's weird how parasocial people are about their relationship. They had been separated by that point. People are allowed to get divorced and move on.
I showed this special to people who were addicted to cocaine and it helped them get off it. I loved the special because of the balance between comedy and seriousness, but i love it so much more because of how well it speaks to addicts
I feel it would have been strange and honestly a bit shitty for him to bring his ex wife and current wife into this special. This is a special about his addiction and now sobriety. Of course I’m sure his addiction played a role in the way things went down, but it truly is not our business nor his business to share to his massive audience. I think it’d also be shitty for him to get on stage and tell his feelings and perspective on the “drama” which would leave his ex wife and current wife without any way to give their input in the same way. Also, again- it’s not our business. I don’t think anyone involved owes some kind of explanation. I think it’d be distasteful to say the least for John Mulaney to use that situation as emotional leverage in a special that has nothing to do with it. It’d be very jarring. Also, the baby changing tray bit was great. 100% earned imo. It does not come off as him using his child for a more emotional sentiment from the audience. He’s nodding to a part of his past and how he has come to a point in his life where he doesn’t view all surafaces as placed to do coke on. You know, “My duckling days are behind me, Quack Quack”.
I always get very worried with extremely vulnerable comedians on stage because it seems like there's such a huge risk of processing trauma On Stage With An Audience (instead of with friends, family, a therapist etc.) being one of the worst, most dysfunctional things for the actual human, the comedian. I loved James Acaster's "Cold Lasagna," but I needed that moment when he said something like, "If I'm talking about it with you, I'm Way over it. I have friends, I have a therapist, and that's where I go when I'm still actually processing the trauma." I think you're right to focus on your expectations going into "Baby J." I also expected more vulnerability because of how it was initially marketed, but it wasn't as jarring for me, as it sounds like it was for you, that he talked about these things on stage like John Mulaney The Performer. Those were still personal and difficult moments that he chose to share but he did it through the medium of his style of comedy performance. I think that's a perfectly fine decision for him to make about exactly how much he wants to share with people he doesn't know. I'm not Mulaney's family, I'm his audience. Maybe your taste in comedy is just a bit different than what John Mulaney wants to make right now. That doesn't have to mean either of you are doing something wrong.
8:30 - Roasted? That's the whole point of the joke. They laughed, as did the audience. It landed as a part of the routine. Is he going to say it, is he going to say it, oh he said it. What are you talking about?
I think the realness mixed with its hilarity really worked for me. I thought it was such a funny and earnest watch, and I wasnt aware of his addiction going in I just saw that he had a new special and watched it
I think to say a stand up comedy special about dark subject matter wasnt dark or real enough for you sort of tells me that you don't know many people who've gone through horrible shit and use humor to cope. They don't say the darkest shit possible related to their circumstances, because it doesn’t make them feel better AND it's not funny. It just... makes everyone sad.
Like that awful Hannah Gaddy, spilling her trauma all over the stage so the audience applauds her ... but they don't laugh. Because she hasn't dealt with it enough to be able to make it funny? Maybe.
I think using James Acaster's 'Cold Lasagna' is the perfect example for what 'Baby J' could and arguable should have been. Acaster didn't go to rehab but he did have a serious mental health crisis that threated both his life and career- and his first special coming back was a complete break from his known persona of many years. He went from the most emotionally-distanced, absurdist, abstract type comedy he'd been known for doing for many years to detailing thoughts of suicide, inappropriate therapist behavior, and the brutal endings of relationships both professional and personal... and somehow managed to make it funny. Very funny. Conversely while there were moments in Baby J that I think were genuinely hilarious, the overall tone is so cold and detached from the basics of humanity that the main feeling I was left with was disgust. I should have felt empathy for Mulaney's struggles. Here's one of my favorite comedians going through this unimaginably dark time but I felt more sorry for Pete Davidson in the recreation of their phone call were Pete worried people would blame him, than I did for Mulaney in the entire runtime of the show. Because it was vulnerable. And honest. The problem with John Mulaney's new comedy isn't that he's sober now and 'not zaney anymore' as he clearly still is. It's that he feels fake. And mean. That watch pawning story made me hate him. How can you talk about pissing money away like that with the world the way it is and expect people to be on your side? Conversely, Acaster's special also incorporates social issues as a way of 'rebooting his persona', and by letting us know that even though he is finally going to talk about himself, he is not ONLY going to talk about himself. I know plenty of people will disagree with me and that's fine. But at the very least please watch James Acaster's Cold Lasagna Hate Myself 1999 (perhaps back to back with Baby J) before rushing to argue with me.
I think that story about the watch could be considered pretty real and honest. I mean he was really revealing how petty and desperate he was feeling and being honest about the levels he stooped to. and was willing to tell it despite the fact that it was ugly and would make others hate him.
I think him telling stories that show how narcissistic and cruel and selfish he can be IS his way of being vulnerable. He cares so much about what people think of him that it consumed him for years. Now here he is, not pretending to be the squeaky clean wife guy from the 1900s, but telling you the dark underbelly of who he really is. He’s not this perfect silly little guy. He’s an addict who has done terrible ridiculous heartbreaking shit. And he KNOWS it’s terrible, but it’s not his job to perform pity and contrition. It’s his job to be funny. Telling those stories is vulnerable, but in his way. He knows you might hate him, and he’s willing to take that risk, and THAT is brave for someone like him
I don’t want to be too negative but I think you have some really odd expectations, and I think you’ve let overthinking get out of control with this video.
Man this is a crazy deep analysis. I am super stoned right now but I feel like this is the most in-depth analysis of a comedian's work I can even remember ever hearing. Amazing. Definitely a new subscriber. Love it
You left out one of the prime moments of his recovery time - playing Chip in the Rescue Rangers movie. There's promos he cut for that where he sounds absolutely dead inside.
I remember getting tickets to Baby J in New Orleans when he was touring, and it really was such whiplash to go in expecting the older John Mulaney and seeing this more open and real John whose style was simply different. I don't think I gave it much credit at the live show itself because of how much that whiplash hit me, but looking back on it I do genuinely think it's fantastic :)
Siobhan Brier Aguilar has an incredible video discussing Mulaney’s ex’s memoir, and I think that video pairs so well with this one because it shows a different side of Mulaney. Wherever the special didnt dig deep enough, I feel like that can be explained by how censored his wife feels in her memoir, and how difficult he is as a person to understand despite how relatable his standup can be. We’ll never know who these people really are, and its honestly weird how adamantly Mulaney wants it to stay that way.
What you're wanting is for his stage persona to be in the same place as his real life persona after having going through a rough period. A couple problems with that: 1) That's too jarring for the audience who came to see a brand-name established well before the drugs and 2) It's too difficult to invent this early by a guy who has just come out of a rough period and is still getting situated in this new phase of his life. The special you wanted to see could only be made after this one, but by then he'll have moved on and the material will delve into still other things in his life. Unless he relapses, but I don't know that he'd get a sequel. Comparison from my own life: I had a rough time as a new parent. At the time I could make jokes specific to the situation, but they were all surface-level comments; I couldn't have given you the additional levels where I'm philosophical about the situation or vulnerability to comment on my mistakes. That takes time. It's hard to give meta commentary while you're still processing everything. Only Deadpool can comment on the situation while in the situation; that's why it's funny. Sam Harris commented that he often found out what his books were really about after he took them out on tour. While you're writing the book, you think you're becoming an expert on the subject and making a singular point, but it's only after you start mixing with the public and having to clarify points or answer questions that you find out what you were really trying to say. The book wasn't the final product so much as a concrete starting point. So it is with a lot of works. Actors cringe at the performance they turned in because they realize there was room to add a bit more. Directors see where they could have shifted the literal or figurative focus to foreshadow something. And I'm sure even John immediately saw moments where he could have made his special more, well, special.
Appreciate examination of comedy and from a comedian I enjoy. It reminds me, I thought the same, “could’ve shared more” then also thought, “enjoy what he desires to present.” The latter, is how I took it in.
30:06 On likability, Siobhan Brier Aguilar does a great review of Anne-Marie Tendler's memoir, but she also considerably talks about John Mulaney and this special. She says, " Have you learned nothing? You called likeability a prison so why are you knocking down the door of the jail trying to get locked up again, this time with your babies." I think John Mulaney is still tightly holding on to this polished family man persona that he had before Baby J which makes his supposed "growth" and "vulnerability" so much harder to believe as an audience.
Yeah that video was interesting in how much grace the creator ultimately gave someone who wrote a whole memoir with little to no real self reflection regarding her issues and her life. It was missing what u would expect from a memoir. And this video is interesting in that making a comedy special should be funny at the end of the day but the criticism is that they wanted him to dig deeper into things that simply might not be something he wanted to make into jokes. I dont think the expectation for a stand up should be unpacking enough issues that people find u believably venerable.
@@leviackerman5249 he's allowed to have a family and occasionally talk about them. He's not even showing them on social media after the initial new feeling of being a dad. His firstborn's birthday was a few days ago and not a peep from John (and Olivia only showed the party and thanked the catering with only a glimpse of the kid). He's doing normal dad stuff and has a busy career and the way some people examine his every move is appalling, annoying and extremely unflattering to themselves. As for the memoir, I read it, because I wanted to hear the ex's side of the story on her own life. My main takeaway was she should get a job and stop blaming others for her parents' and her own inability to deal with her own problems causing her issues.
@reen4450 i dont think its about what can or cant be made into a funny joke. i think theres an elephant in the room. and as a comedian its your job to shine a bright light when theres an elephant and say "look everybody its an elephant. cmon lets talk about it, its right here we can all see it." but even while acknowledging the elephant, hes acting like the elephant is no longer in the room and thats why its okay to talk about it now.
@@MMCLLC7 Can u clarify what elephant u mean so i know where talking about the same thing lol Cause I feel like he briefly acknowledged things in the sing songy thing he did at the very beginning and then chose to foucs on material about his addiction. Obviously we as the audience can be satisfied or unsatisfied with what he chose to do material about but its not his job to make sure he addresses every question or concern of the audience.
Thing is, he wasn’t a family man? At least, they were supposed to be DINKs and he very loudly proclaimed that in his shows. He was doing the “wife guy” schtick like Ned from the try Guys. then he knocked up the mistress. So now he’s pivoting to family man since uh, can’t claim you’re this ever loving loyal guy cause you ain’t….
while you aren't wrong about what the routine could have been - I feel like you are missing the fact that it's his show and this was probably a conscious choice to go for a less deep tone. I personally think it's impressive for him to feel not only comfortable to talk about his addictions, but to actually make a whole show be about it. It's his choice for how introspective vs lighthearted he wants to make it, because you can't really do both sincerely. I don't think he failed in any aspects of creating a well-made special, so it feels weird for the video to spend so long focusing on something which was probably considered by Mulaney, before he ultimately took it another direction as is his choice.
@@invalidopinion5384 I know, so I don't get why he spent so long on it. Mentioning it as a possible idea sure, but it seems like it's being presented as an actual criticism
Agreed. Our presenter would have done this special differently if he were in Mulaney's shoes? Sure, fine, good for them - but not particularly interesting in itself.
this sort of critique (of, uh, another critic's critique) has always struck me as so bloodless: "yeah, well, the thing you're criticizing was actually a conscious decision by the artist, so because it was a conscious decision by the artist, then i don't understand why you're criticizing it because, well... the artist did it and you didn't." wow. what insight.
@@mnchls i mean, do u think that teenage dream-era katy perry is bad bc its not radiohead? to what degree do u think u should be critiquing the thing bc it successfully pulled off something u can recognize as a choice it made versus critiquing the thing bc of failing to pull off something u can recognize as a choice it made? do u think that instead of recognizing that the dumb pop song wants to be a dumb pop song and critiquing it by that standard, we should instead compare it to japanese math rock? tho i dont know if that applies to baby J. i got the sense that it wanted to be much more confessional than it actually was
I'm not sure how deep he got into benzos addiction. Klonopin can be extremely bad which I know he took. I have protracted withdrawals 4 years later. These aren't psychological withdrawals which are horrible too, but a unique feature is there can still be physiological or seemingly physiological withdrawal years later It's weird. I've quit drinking which sucked, and quit all nicotine which was awful, but personally benzos destroyed me. It was a hell that terrifies me. If he's in a similar place, I don't know if he can ever reconcile that. I don't know if he can ever talk about it without detachment. At least not in a very controlled environment involving doctors that say terms like 'cognitive' and 'spectrum' I'm not excusing it or anything. Just trying to show in a clumsy ass way where his mind might be. I know I'm hyper focusing on just one point but I'm not exactly brilliant lol anyway great video
Halfway through your tearing apart Mulaney's art: "But is this fair of me? Who am I to say any of this?" Literally one second later: "Another thing I didn't like is ____________."
Good observations. I took a storytelling class and tried telling a story about when I shoplifted $13 of cleaning supplies. The class feedback was that I seemed “proud” of the accomplishment which wasn’t supposed to be the story tale. I felt that with Baby J. He’s a little too proud of himself still being an asshole. He hasn’t changed, he’s revealing he’s an asshole but he’s proud of it (still). It was off-putting the way you point out.
I think alot of your criticisms do not take into account that many of the examples you pointed out about him feeling detached from the jokes were all of the parts that he was talking about active addiction. It would make sense for him to feel disconnected from that material if he is not in that same mindset as he was under the influence. His quick, snappy delivery was all part of him impersonating his addicted self, of course, he would be quick and snappy in the delivery because it's part of the bit because he is showing you how starkly different he felt in addiction. All of that rambling and putting those 'bows' on the jokes were literally his way of giving the audience a sight into his mind because those are framed as his internal monologue as an addict.
I figure if similar 1950s style entertainers like Bing Crosby were describing their alcoholism or similar as part of a variety routine they’d probably keep it pretty light and surfacey too.
That Baby J joke makes me think of Hannah Gadsby talking about comedy and her story about being beaten up. How if she told a part of the story, it was an amusing anecdote, but it hid an ugly and necessary truth from her marginalized life. I think that's what bugs me about how Mulaney is addressing his experiences. He has every right to be glib and tell jokes, but I don't know how his audience can be unaware of the darkness he's papering over. Or at least, _I_ can't be unaware, so I can't really laugh at the Rolex story. By clinging to his persona, the stories feel like something out of a Pitch Meeting: "That sounds super traumatic, that must have really affected you. How'd you get over it?" "Oh it was super simple. Barely an inconvenience!"
@@xrphoenix7194 Sure, but... ok, the closest comparison in the comedy world is Richard Pryor talking about freebasing and the time he accidentally set himself on fire. And that's probably an unfair comparison, we're talking about two different styles of comedy and similar subjects with wildly different outcomes. But I think that underlines the weakness of Mulaney's style for this subject matter. It doesn't feel cathartic, it feels like someone trying desperately to demonstrate how he's fine, he's fine, he's fine, he's over it. And that may be me. But for me, knowing what I know about what John Mulaney's been through (I've not been following it in detail, but...), I find it interesting that his life has changed dramatically, his goals have changed (he used to talk about never wanting kids) but his comedy style has stayed functionally the same despite his cliams that he no longer needs attention. That's a powerful life preserver. Or straitjacket. Or both.
@@csblakeleyI dont think he claimed he doesnt need attention. He admitted he loves attention. But either way I dont see what that would have to do with changing his comedy style. He has a clear voice and style why would he change that just because things in his life are different. Most people that like him like his style of comedy....most people that like any specific comic likes the style of comedy they do and if they want a different style they look to a different person.
It’s been a while since I watched Baby J, but I remember feeling similarly taken aback by Mulaney’s detached persona in this special. I know he doesn’t owe his audience vulnerability, and at the same time, I don’t think it is unreasonable for the audience to crave it. Mulaney’s previous specials relied on his likability. Jokes like “chase through the subway” depend on our perception of Mulaney being endearingly awkward and good-natured. It’s a harmless joke because we believe(d) Mulaney to be a harmless person. That is why the heel turn in Baby J was so jarring: his jokes stopped feeling harmless. In every story in Baby J, Mulaney casts himself as the villain. Over and over again, he tells us how terrible he was, to the point where even his dealer seems sympathetic by comparison. I’m sure this was intentional, and it could have been very poignant if it felt more honest - if it felt like we were watching a man who had reflected on his wrongdoings and taken accountability, truly and deeply. Instead, he gives us a laundry list of reasons to dislike him with no evidence to the contrary. He destroys the likability that his comedy relied so heavily on, and in favor of what? What payoff does he give us to break the tension he has built up? There is no catharsis in Mulaney’s confessions, no real resolution to offset the heaviness in his stories. Baby J just feels hollow.
I mean this entire special is exactly what it is like when you are with an addict whether it's friends or dating. It's almost like they are completely unaware.
This is such a weird video and made me very uncomfortably. Telling a public figure, "you should have been more open and vulnerable about this horrible part of your life" is just so so weird and frankly a little gross
Got to watch from scratch when Mulaney visited Green Bay a few years ago. I appreciate your mention of the change in tone as that show felt deeply personal and real.
You need friends not comedians lmao the way people see comedy now completely defeats the purpose. “Less funny more sad, tell me more about you stop making me laugh you’re too funny” it’s a standup special not group therapy
After watching your standup it makes sense that you would have the bias that standup needs to be completely vulnerable. I liked your standup but I think it got to be self indulgent and more about yourself than entertaining the audience. You played a clip of John saying that at 23:50 he wanted to be more of an entertainer instead of somberly expressing facts. Maybe the shift from the early sets to the final product was tweaking it to give more joy and entertainment to more people. You have a narrow view of what makes a successful standup set. Jerrod Carmichael gave you the closest thing to what it seems like you are asking for and it didn’t seem like you liked that either so idk what you want.
honestly, i really loved the special all your points are completely valid and I loved the video but he doesn't owe us an explanation on being an addict, its his personal thing what he puts on the table is whats up for speaking about
if you didn't like the baby j punchline then we clearly have different comedic tastes. i came into it wanting a comedy special, you came into it wanting a tell-all memoir. idk why you had this expectation but you clearly struggle to let it go.
I could really resonate with Baby J as a recovering addict. There are so many stories that I might find really darkly funny, but other people just look at as depressing and horrifying.
“Baby J” is tough because it feels like the more I watched, the more it felt like watching it was enabling him. Going back to stand-up and touring so quickly and spending so little time in rehab was such a huge red flag and it’s like I was participating in the current self-medication
i think expecting him to further exploit his trauma for a “more interesting special” is deeply unfair. he doesn’t scratch the surface more than he needs to and i don’t think that’s a bad thing. i personally loved the special, but even if i hadn’t i still believe that that closeness vs detachedness with the stories you’re telling really shouldn’t be critiqued by the public. it’s such an intimate thing to question.
While i agree that he does not answer all of the questions surrounding his addiction, well... Should he ? Why would he owe us that ? he Gives just enough information that we need, i don't feel like he owes us an in depth psychological analysis of himself, he did great with this special to me
this has everything I love in a video essay. The explaining the function/theories of comedy was great, the Bergson quote really cements this video as a comedic critique. I also always appreciate Flight of the Conchords. I think Mulaney attributed his comedic success to drug use- which is greatly unfortunate because he has spent decades fine-tuning his timing and cadence.That amount of time needs concentration and passion that drug use doesn't offer. Baby J was Mulaney at the most uncomfortable I have seen him, his technical skills really carried. I'm excited to hear his jokes when he has relaxed into his sobriety :]
As far as the differences between early shows and the final polished special, I’ll say: I saw Mulaney at a 40 capacity theater in LA years and years ago, just doing a small set, and his whole energy was so different from anything I’d ever seen him do. You got the sense that you were seeing a more “real” him, something closer to how you’d imagine he is with his friends. He was wearing a tshirt and jeans, and the rhythm and energy weren’t at all the fast-paced, theatrical thing we see in his filmed specials. My guess is he’s a comedian who plays to the room he’s in. And the way he polishes his act for the filmed version is completely intentional. But gosh did I love seeing him play that small room with that rough, relaxed energy. Try to see him in a smaller venue someday if you can!
Saw from scratch in Atlantic City. Honestly laughed a bunch but it wasn’t like his past work. I’d recently lost my last grandparent so hearing those dead grandparent jokes got under my skin. I’m also a writer/author so words and this stuff hit me in many similar ways. Not everything needs to be talked about but man there’s always parts to hide.
Saw a (long) video critic of his ex's book, and between that video (it's great, check it out) and this one, I can't help but feel that he has carefully crafted his persona all along, wich is not a bad thing in itself, but I think it is not completely honest, especially considering that this special has that "sincere" or "conffesionary" approach. His comedy is great, both the writing and the acting, but I feel that as consumers we need to have a critical perspective, so as not to fall for a charming character without thinking twice about it.
i think the whole tone of the special was perfect for the time and context. when the news all came out it was hard to imagine that being the same guy that the audience knew from his previous persona. when i saw the show live on tour, i remember wondering what i was going into, but it felt correct. it was like “oh ya this is the same guy from before, hes just gone through some shit now” if he had come out there and given us a hannah gadsby style dark comedy monologue, it would have only furthered the gap between the perception we all had and what had come as such a shock in the news
I just started the video and I'm already mindboggled-pure clean comedy from John Mulaney? So some people DO completely remove from memory the times he spoke about being an alcoholic and addict. I'm flabbergasted every time someone talks about his old routines as something that was cute and harmless. The suit and haircut did blind you all. (Also how much more personal did you want him to get? The man admitted he let himself be sexually harassed for a prescription and indirectly pointed out that's one of the things he's willing to tell you. Did you want him to delve into that)
As for not scratching beneath the surface, I appreciate it. I appreciate that he withholds the juicy stuff because it's no one's business but his. He's entitled to privacy and as he himself says, 1) don't believe the persona, 2)you only get to know what he chooses to tell you and you have no right to be whiny about it. The gossip and drama is unnecessary for understanding that he's put himself through dark stuff because of insecurity and now he's trying to heal and move on. I am once again left disappointed by the entitlement of people wanting to dissect and eviscerate someone for morbid curiosity. Take the jokes he gives you and either laugh or find someone else.
Also I'm glad he didn't include the divorce. I tolerated the jokes about his relationships, I never cared for the wife (found her annoying actually), and I wouldn't have cared for divorce jokes. I'm hoping to never hear about that one woman again after having to bite my tongue on how insufferable she came across for me, both through jokes, clips like from Comedians in Cars getting Coffee, and other people's accounts. I made an effort to be civil and fair by reading her memoir and whoa she didn't do a favour to herself. Also it's obvious there's an NDA in place. I'm happy for it. Let them both shut up about it.
@@uns33n no, I said I read it to try and be fair in my opinion of her. Her own words should be my best chance for that. It's unfortunate that they just reinforced my dislike.
Yeah but this glib and cheerful attitude toward his past addiction and other trauma is nothing new for Mulaney. He's talked about his addiction in his comedy in the past, and always in this same "tee-hee oh well" sort of way that yes, seemed a bit unhealthy to me. Maybe you address this later in the video, but I lost interest because your apparent thesis (as posed at the beginning of the video) that he's *newly* disingenuous doesn't make sense.
I've read his ex book and....I kinda get it why he drank, and I say this as a woman ok? no misogyny or anything, but it totally changed how I saw John, at first when the divorce happened and right after marriage, I was like "wtf???" but now I'm like 'yeah, I get it"
Finding the comedy in a previous self strikes me as pretty vulnerable. I suppose I am wondering what catharsis you need from him and what questions you wanted answered.
Brilliant video. I really enjoyed Baby J. But I agree with your analysis. The slightly glitzy way it's shot is adding an element, be fascinating with something like this to release it with a second recording in a basement comedy club. Have you seen Django Golds self published special on here? Would recommend.
I think your perspective is a fascinating one and there are elements where I agree. But I fundamentally disagree with your thesis statement, which I think you also acknowledge may not be appropriate for a comedian. It’s a comedy show. Make me laugh. Be personal and provocative if you like, but make me laugh. It’s your job. It’s a hill Norm Macdonald *literally* died on. He revealed himself personally only when it suited the comedy. For this reason and this reason alone, Baby J is pretty damn good. Not great. But good.
I honestly left this video confused on what you wanted from him in this special. I feel like his special was the most relatable of his and is the one i enjoyed the most. It was vulnerable and acknowledged the audience like “hey we all know what happened its time to laugh at it” and managed that balance between hilarity and traumadumping. The comment made about his drawn out “winter coats” bit was the only thing i really understood and felt was an incredible analysis but everything else was just a bit too subjective rather than being objective criticisms of where the comedy fell flat.
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As someone who has been to rehab a few times, I watched this special right before my last trip, and it very much speaks to me. As an addict, yes there are a lot of dark things you know you need to contend with, but at least for me, I need to be able to make light of them too. I have so many stories that are hilarious to me but horrifying to other people, but if you let those things stay horrifying in your own mind then you run the risk of letting yourself fall back in to that dark place again. I feel like this special was made by an addict FOR addicts. It may seem shallow, and in some ways it is, but I think he sums in up best when he says about the Rolex story, "That was a story I was willing to tell you."
❤
Exactly. Well said.
i was about to comment the same thing. i’m not an addict, but i have some pretty dark traumas. my sister has a lot of the same ones, so this special reminded me of how we talk to each other. laughing over shared trauma is so cathartic and comforting because you know that you don’t need to explain yourself, we both know that this is messed up and exactly how it feels, so we can cut the chatter of trying to get someone to empathize. the details of the situations are more nuanced because they’re broadly the same, but the funny quirks of those experiences can be so isolating without someone to laugh alongside you.
this was a great video and analysis! it really made me digest this special from some new angles
Thank you !! so well said
Such a great special.
If a doctor in rehab tells you "it scares me how good you are at presenting like everything's fine," that's not a compliment.
Incredibly deep and profound insight there, Professor.
He’s not acting like it’s a compliment
I don’t think he thought it was, it’s just a true statement.
haha yea
Depends on how much you value compartmentalizing and other narcissistic traits
“your name better fucking not be John” is my favourite joke from the special haha
Everytime I’ve met a “John” since watching the special that’s all that runs through my head
i agree though, the “they call me baby j out on these streets” felt awkward and unnecessary the first couple times
@@magic8ballin yeah I didn’t really find that part funny
*your
@@feverprole thanks
"on the other, he seems oddly detatched from the stories he's recounting" dude have you ever met drugs?
or comedians?
EXACTLY! Comedy is subjective and all, but I came here to say that I disagree with the notion that John should’ve been more somber. No way! For one, this was a show for addicts imo. But even aside from that, addiction hardly needs to be laboriously spelled out for any audience, especially in a comedy routine. If he had gotten up there and was super detailed in recounting his life story, was sad and serious it REALLY would’ve been unlike John and it would’ve been just another addiction sob story. Addiction sucks, as does most of life. That’s literally what stand up comedy is about. Mocking life’s crushing blows by laughing in its face. We cry when we begin to heal, but we laugh once the wounds have closed.
i know i have made some of the dumbest decisions of my life on coke that i would never do sober because they really do dissociate you from your real self
@@TheReluctantVloggerhe literally acknowledges that and checks himself and others for that very notion later in the video.
While ultimately the creator of this video argues that its not necessary, multiple other comedians have been able to approach even this detachment with more tenderness/curiosity. Hell, I would say "This is not happening" is pretty much entirely predicated on this very thing.
12:43 did you miss the point of why he returned to that cadence? In the story he's telling, he's high on coke. It tracks well with the insinuation that the drugs are why his delivery was high paced in previous specials. It's like how he's similarly animated when he's talking about the first night in the rehab
I noticed that as well. The few times he ever gets like that in the special are the times he was acting out being under the influence of drugs.
This dude is straight up just ignoring half the special to support his arguments.
@@thequestion8697 after the weird shane gillis video and now this I have lost faith in this guys' ability to critically analyze comedy. His Inside video made me a fan but he's lost me tbh
i think when you are talking about how his delivery comes back to energetic unironically its because he is acting out a moment when he is high and unreasonable, in a way he is still referencing how he was back then
I had this same thought! But in all fairness to CWE, most of the special is John talking about things that happened before he went to Rehab, so it can feel like a bit of a cop out - maybe it's fair to say, yeah, he was telling one of his high-energy classic joke styles.
Very much so
Like when you tell a story about a time you were drunk, so you slur your speech.
Not hard to understand
"a wide ranging conversation" is a nod to the article
Thank you!
"Baby J" was my favorite comedy special in such a long time. Also, he does mention his son and his divorce. And he has given more vulnerable interviews. That doesn't necessarily have to be his stand-up act. I thought Baby J was his best work to date.
IDK, I don't think I really want deep introspection from Mulaney in one of his specials. I'm there because I like the style of comedy he puts out. Personally, I was actually really worried going into this special that it would get super serious and sad.
He also doesn't owe us any glimpses into his life. If there are things he doesn't want to go into detail about, that's his right. The only thing the comedian owes an audience is jokes.
I'll take what he wants to put out, but I think you're right that Mulaney shouldn't be compelled to deliver an hour of introspective angst just because it's a trend in comedy (a trend I love, but a trend nonetheless.) Mulaney never went that deep before. Maybe that's a product of his desire to put on a facade to hide all this stuff, which obviously became a destructive instinct. But it may just be that he's not that kind of comedian, and the "why" of it doesn't matter.
Of course, his personal woes became a matter of public record for the simple reason that celebrities aren't really afforded enough privacy, especially when their personality is a central part of their brand, as is the case for any comedian. And had he simply not mentioned any of it, the silence would have been deafening, as it is with Louis CK's profound lack of introspection about his own public woes. I don't think Mulaney owed his audience his introspection. But I think, given that he trades on his persona, his public scandals affect that persona, whether or not he or his audience like it. This is probably going to be the only deep dive we get about his addiction troubles, for the simple reason that he's more interested in covering other matters with his comedy. And he made sure to keep a barrier between himself and his audience. "This is the stuff I'm willing to tell you."
I think it was necessary to just clear the air, and not leave people wondering, "What's REALLY going on with John?" But I suspect, for the most part, he'll be back to just being silly John Mulaney soon enough, and leave train wreck John behind.
The creator literally addresses this directly like 2/3 through the video.
@ If someone addresses a potential criticism in their video, it doesn't automatically invalidate that criticism.
I've always felt that this special is almost a mockery of what social media posters want from John: A sobering recollection of his past sins and to apologize or sob to them about getting a divorce. When he approaches the darkness and pulls right back out again, i see it as him marking a line in the sand like he's saying "I'm here to entertain you, you're not my therapist and if the dark truth isn't funny it isn't yours to see"
Thats all fine and good but that doesn't mean the end result is good comedy/performance. I thought it was fine but by far the worst full length Mulaney special, precisely because I found a lot of that "approaching the darkness and pulling back" as pretty tedious and neither very funny or cathartic.
20:04 "So what am I criticizing? Or are my problems with the special really about my own false expectations?" It's that. It's that second thing.
LMAO YEAH, a stand-up set isn't the place to unload all the trauma he's been through. It just wouldn't be stand-up at that point
@@4thcutiemarkcrusaderis that true? There are comedians that go up to that line, Mullaney isn't one of them. That's ok. I think this creator does a good job of interrogating his expectations and balancing it with what he enjoyed about the special. I'm not sure what else we could demand as an audience. I feel like alot of the critical comments are just perturbed he's being critiqued at all.
He's an entertainer and this is his medium. He doesn't owe us any realism. We demand that of him which is why so many people were so shocked of his fall. He only addressed his addiction because it would have been weird not to. He doesn't need to go deep, that's not for us. I think you're expecting more than you're owed.
That was my take as well and I think that may be where some of the quick cut offs in storytelling and his overly performative demeanor may be coming from. We're not his friends, we're not his family, we're his income source and we're not owed every detail of his life and drug and alcohol induced downfall, nor his undoubtedly dark experiences in rehab, his divorce, and recovery. He told us a lot of banger jokes, but we're not really there for a full psychological breakdown, therapist assessment, and show of remorse. And we're certainly not entitled to that either.
did you watch the whole video ? He did say that mulaney doesnt owe him anything. And he questioned wanting that from mulaney is “wrong” on him
@@Leeknaurrr Yes, I watched the entire thing, thus my response.
@@Leeknaurrr bro shit on him for damn near a half an hour, and then put on a token gesture at the end. This guy is doing nothing but killing the frog.
i agree, i think us expecting him to exploit his trauma for a “more interesting special” is so unfair
Have you been close with any addicts before? The avoiding the uncomfortable is very common
lol I feel the exact opposite; I spend a lot of time in AA groups and a lot of addicts won’t shut the hell up about all the terrible things they did and how terribly they feel about it.
@@samuelhoward7213 Ok so that's addict to addict. And also in active recovery. Remember, he says that right out of rehab Mulaney was more open! But there's idk, I'm not gonna speculate on John, but the addict I'm closest with definitely has a really hard time opening up about CERTAIN emotional things. He'll tell me all the awful things he does but like the video says, it's like telling stories about a character, not himself.
I like “those old winter coats.” It feels like a line out of a Robert Frost poem, haha.
I think the minimal mention of his divorce was likely due to an NDA. His ex wife’s recent memoir also perplexingly leaves Mulaney out completely, despite that being the main promotional draw of the book.
It’s a whole lot shellacking, very meticulous
Yeah, John Mulany has a personal life, he doesn't own us anything with his experiances with divorce or rehab.
@@4thcutiemarkcrusader agreed! But I do think it’s interesting what he chooses to share and what he withholds. He even comments on the nature of the information he’s willing to share vs not in the special.
I saw this special live twice: once in Las Vegas and once in MSG in NYC. Both times, his performance felt raw, genuine, and hilariously unfiltered. I was so excited for it to be released on Netflix. When the actual special came out, it was absolutely missing something that made it so good in the live shows. It almost felt like he wrote the jokes past their ripe. In the interest of joke writing, I believe he tried to perfect them so much that he lost the rawness which was supposed to be the entire point.
Or is it that you've heard the jokes three times now?
This is interesting to hear, thanks for sharing
I also saw this on tour and I think part of what was missing was that in the live shows he also asks to talk to someone from the audience who has been to rehab. The audience member, who is likely from where the show takes place brings it home. They bring up that their intervention may have been at a local restaurant or one of the outings was to a small town everyone knows about. For me I think that was what brought the show the vulnerability and rawness that you are talking about. However having this type of interaction recorded and put on Netflix could lead to privacy issues and they would need heavy legal vetting. Thoughts?
I feel like on tour he felt more comfortable being raw and vulnerable because those jokes weren't going to get out of that room and the audience was one that wasn't hostile to him, but on the Netflix special he was more guarded because the content is public and there it will be analyzed and scrutinized, especially considering the reactions that happened to the divorce, would be having an audience ready to use his vulnerability against him
This is what comedians do. their process is cutting and re-working and refining until they get it "perfect" to record. As a performer I can also offer insight that he probably closed himself off a bit for recording because it's one thing for just a full (albeit large) theatre to see you say things you've done that you aren't proud of and be raw and open it's another to know it's going out to the world and you no longer know who the hell will see it. Like one day his kids will see his comedy so he also might have dialed it a different direction a bit for their sake. I can't speak to his motives obviously, but a recording will never feel the same as a live show.
7:37 I kinda like the fact that he didn't get too into the details. The details probably aren't as funny as the story, AND it separates his comedy from just being story telling. I think it's healthy for the audience and Mulaney to have that distance where we don't know the full story
I think this is an incredibly well written critique of the content & delivery of Baby J as a comedy special... in a vacuum. Unfortunately the thesis of the argument falls flat for me because it seems contingent on the idea that Baby J owed us some kind of cathartic and vulnerable explanation about where Mulaney has been recently, based on personal information about him that we found out whether he wanted us to know or not. And in turn any critique of what it could have or should have been to hit harder is psychoanalyzing where Mulaney's mind should be been or what he should have said. But if that what he was thinking or wanted to say, it's likely he would have just said it.
Mulaney's comedy style has always been giving us just enough information to laugh at a ridiculous story, and also think to ourselves "wow that's kinda messed up," if you take a second to consider it. He's never been one to give massive amounts of vulnerable details, especially not within a standup special. Baby J is the same level of vulnerable as any former Mulaney special, and that's okay because it never really owed us any more vulnerability than that. Mulaney never chose to divulge the personal information we got to ruminate on before the special started. This is the first time we've had a situation where, in anticipation for a special, we've been wondering if he was going to address something specific rather than going in blind and letting him set up his own topic, details, and ensuing stories.
Baby J might not be enlightening about the darker details of Mulaney's last few years. But it absolutely feels like an authentic and recognizable return for a self-admitted life-long addict and human being trying to continue the comedy career that was almost derailed when a bunch of private matters that no one truly knows the reality of and which he never gave us any reason to believe he wanted us to know, became public discussion topics.
This is how I feel with retrospect as well. Man told us about countless blackout stories it seemed like and he drank *a whole bottle of perfume* he wore a suit on stage and looked out together so people just kinda assumed that about him cause he's charming and funny and clearly successful, but I really don't think he was out there ever perpetuating this "I'm a cookie cutter chill vanilla guy" idea that a lot of people falsely ascribed to him. Baby J felt solidly in line with his other specials to me.
I think you’re right that he’s a bit surfacey. And I think you’re also right in that we might be asking too much to expect otherwise. Considering just how recent the whole relapse/rehab experience is, the idea that Mulaney has processed his history and motivations enough to dig that deeply and make it funny seems like a tall order.
I think it’s key that he points out, after the Rolex story, that these are the stories he is willing to share. There is more going on he’s not willing to share.
I’m sure he’s not done dealing with it all, and, as long as he knows that, I’m fine letting him have his boundaries.
I do think we can demand too much vulnerability out of public figures. He took a lot of heat for being publicly happy about becoming a father when we all know the timing of it is not something any therapist would recommend.
But since his plan was clearly to go forward with it, telling everyone that he’s scared or might actually be ambivalent about having a baby would just hurt the kid. That’s a story you tell with your adult child next to you, secure in your love, not when it’s all still happening.
Are we truly concerned that the polished performance means he’s pretending things are cleaner than they are or do we just want to be able to say “I knew it” if things get bad for him again?
I always thought the subtitle "A Wide Ranging Conversation" was a reference to the last joke in the set where he does that interview while coked out of his mind and the interviewer described the interview as "a wide ranging conversation"
I feel like the koala bear's changing callback is more there to show the dichotomy between his two selves, the drug addict and the father, not necessarily to show how far he has come but to show the split in worlds.
and how it is always with him, even when he's trying to do his best as a father. It's cruel and a tease and it's who you are.
This was one of my favorite parts of
@@nicole-mq2dk exactly, the cocain snorting man with an old winter coat and a farhter trying his best are one in the same and he has to live with it
when watching this i got quite heated, but I want to emphasize that if you have a strong need for vulnerability in stand-up comedy then maybe look further into yourself.
1) we shouldn’t have expectations for former drug addicts to be vulnerable. (doesn’t feel great, just a weird pressure to put on someone)
2) if your looking for vulnerability go watch interviews or a drama or something that can satisfy that urge
All i’m saying is that in all respect I don’t think that there needed to be vulnerability in the show.
(other than that good job on the vid, editing was good)
Well said!
Why not just demand a print out of his medical records?
If you want to listen to stories of addicts told with true vulnerability, there are plenty of places to find that. I don’t know why one would demand it of a comedy special.
It was a vulnerable story to divulge. We already got far more than we were ever entitled to.
I don’t think the argument is that vulnerability is required, it’s far more that Mulaney kinda promised vulnerability and then didn’t deliver to an extent that was worthwhile.
@@shadeofthelamp1218 honestly that’s a very good point, and to be honest I didn’t think that the maker of the video essay meant he needed it, but the fact that he was underwhelmed with the amount of vulnerability in the special, was were I was getting so heated over.
(now this is might be me misunderstanding some stuff here and if I’m wrong feel free to correct me).
Idk if John Mulaney did say that he will get vulnerable during the show, yes the title card does say ‘A Wide Ranging Conversation’, but keep in mind that’s a reference to the interview at the end. Also a wide ranging conversation doesn’t necessarily mean vulnerability, it could just mean a bunch of new and interesting topics.
In the show after Mulaney tells the watch story he states “that’s what he’s willing to share”, which feels like him setting up a personal boundary and the fact we don’t see him get more vulnerable than the watch story and the interview, tells us the point at which he feels uncomfortable.
Thank you for bringing this up, it was a good point and if you would like to elaborate further on it, i’m genuinely all ears. If not all good have a lovely holidays.
I feel validated in this comment. I'm a little bit past the criticism about the phone call at rehab, and I couldn't help but feel weird. Like: "Sounds like this guy just wants a TED talk from John Mulany about his addiction instead of making a stand-up set with dark humor intended for laughter."
@@shadeofthelamp1218The special was also criticized for being too dark and vulnerable. It's really a subjective thing, and he got a lot of backlash for the stuff he did share, so I think it's best to just enjoy the jokes and the amount of stuff he willingly shared.
This isnt totally directed at this video alone but in general I feel like the think pieces about JM and what he didnt share are just people being (at least partly)furstrated they didnt get the tea. And/or people who feel entitled to answers and details because they were invested.
As someone who has also struggled with addiction/rehab, I often cannot share what are ultimately very humiliating and dark stories without extreme comedic detachment. Respectfully, I think he may just be doing the heavy introspective work in private, and that's alright with me. After the heaviness of things like "Inside" and "Rothaniel" getting "Baby J" felt like a hug from an old friend.
This special means a lot to me. I actually got sent to residential treatment for self harm the exact same day he got sent to rehab (dec 18). My favorite part is when, after previously saying baby changing stations are useless except to do cocaine off of, he later comes back and realizes that he needs to use one for its actual intended purpose. It's such a small moment but it really resonated with me, i spent so long repairing my relationships with inanimate objects that i had previously used to hurt myself.
12:20 This entire segment of the video is something that makes me question your entire thesis statement. Mulaney highlighting how as a younger man, he was coked out of his mind onstage, and then later miming how he was coked out of his mind walking into his own intervention are related. He was a cokehead. He's mimicking how he used to behave, and he's doing it in a way that is exaggerated, but highlights how his previous behavior was bad. He never describes it positively, it's always described and acted out as a negative thing. The whole bit is "Hey I acted like a cokehead onstage, but got away with it, but behind the scenes this was also how I was and it was bad"
EDIT: This is clearly a stylistic thing where you would prefer John Mulaney to be more open, raw, and vulnerable, which has never really been his style. He's always been light and absurd, which makes him talking about these heavy subjects interesting (and absurd in terms of his comedy persona, which is usually light). James Acaster is also someone who works very absurd and very offbeat, but he has never shied away from getting incredibly serious in the moment in his specials. Both of them are incredible comics, but it's a weird parallel to make.
In the best way, I disagree with your take - I think it takes a lot of strength to come out and tell everyone the stories of when you are at your most vulnerable. Some people cope in different ways, and if that’s through comedy and his stand up shows, that’s his way of coping. I know comedy is subjective, but I think it was really funny and heartwarming despite the darkness of his situation. It gave me hope during times I felt stuck like he did. This may just be my take, but I think you are way overthinking this, I’m sorry.
I feel the same. Well said!
12:44 he’s acting as his addicted self right? It makes even more sense that he’s doing his old schtick. I liked the video but I don’t think this is a good criticism.
Only partially related, but I think Mulaney's best work isn't his stand-up (which I do love), but The Sack Lunch Bunch, which I watch once a year and is a perfectly formed object that dabbles in his weird ironic distance in ways clever and touching. The songs are also great.
Sack Lunch Bunch is outstanding! Something about the tone is perfect for Mulaney’s voice. Childlike but mature, ironic but sincere. And Jake Gyllenhaal obv haha
@@ComedyWithoutErrors I completely agree! I really hope he gets commissioned to make more, it's a brilliant format. I love how much spotlight he puts on the kids too. Not to mention David Byrne
it shows that many commentators didn’t watch the video fully, as you clearly addressed complaints. I enjoyed your thoughts - great video
It so interesting hearing someone talk about this special, when it first came out I remember how excited I was and then I saw the special and most of the jokes didn't really land with me... I wasn't sure why but the points you menioned put some of those thoughts into words, thank u
13:02 "He seems so cheerfully detached... Like he's talking about someone else." I mean, that's what being addicted to drugs can be like.
Bro, I just listened to you for a half an hour and all I got was you came into the special with some pre-expectations and when they weren’t met, you perceived it as bad. It was a solid special from someone going through a change in their life come on, dude
I will say as someone who saw the show while it was still From Scratch but very close to it being Baby J - the biggest thing that was missing in the Netflix special was this set he did about his son and the baby formula shortage - it was very timely so makes sense he cut it for something that was gonna live on past the one performance but it really connected his past and present as he joked about using his drug finding abilities to get more formula for his son. It really showed a new side of him as he talked about his son
Go see live shows if you want more authenticity. Having seen this tour live, there was a huge difference to the special. You want to be tricked into feeling like you're in the room with someone, but there isn't a substitute for that.
You were so thorough, the answer is in your analysis: Mulaney has such need for positive attention (and he is aware of it) that he can't risk the cruel vulverability of self-examination the way Acaster for example does. Consequently, he'll never achieve that level of connection with the audience and the chance to create something truly meaningful. And I say that as a fan of both of them, and comedy in general. Mulaney is too aware of his public persona and gutted by the response to its latest unravelling to prob it deeper. still, i enjoy his comedy for what it is. insightful video!
Acaster's established on-stage persona is completely different, where in terms of tone both his early irreverent routines and his more confessional aren't nearly as "at odds" (so to speak) with each other as the perception of Mulaney's "split" personality. the gulf doesn't seem nearly as wide, where to bridge that gap would feel like way more a stretch. (same with Carmichael, who's always had a very laid-back and introspective demeanor, even pre-Rothaniel.) also James doesn't have nearly as big of a platform and audience base as John does. hopefully that'll change-i'm of the belief that Acaster should be one of the absolute biggest standups of his generation, rather than the relatively niche/cult status he's had for too long. but maybe even his ego would also swallow itself whole, who knows?
I wish he had been aware enough to not hurt and embarrass his ex so thoroughly and publicly. Aware of his own need for attention and aware of how to save face by pushing others in the path of destruction
@chelscara It's weird how parasocial people are about their relationship. They had been separated by that point. People are allowed to get divorced and move on.
I showed this special to people who were addicted to cocaine and it helped them get off it. I loved the special because of the balance between comedy and seriousness, but i love it so much more because of how well it speaks to addicts
I feel it would have been strange and honestly a bit shitty for him to bring his ex wife and current wife into this special. This is a special about his addiction and now sobriety. Of course I’m sure his addiction played a role in the way things went down, but it truly is not our business nor his business to share to his massive audience.
I think it’d also be shitty for him to get on stage and tell his feelings and perspective on the “drama” which would leave his ex wife and current wife without any way to give their input in the same way. Also, again- it’s not our business. I don’t think anyone involved owes some kind of explanation.
I think it’d be distasteful to say the least for John Mulaney to use that situation as emotional leverage in a special that has nothing to do with it. It’d be very jarring. Also, the baby changing tray bit was great. 100% earned imo. It does not come off as him using his child for a more emotional sentiment from the audience. He’s nodding to a part of his past and how he has come to a point in his life where he doesn’t view all surafaces as placed to do coke on. You know, “My duckling days are behind me, Quack Quack”.
I always get very worried with extremely vulnerable comedians on stage because it seems like there's such a huge risk of processing trauma On Stage With An Audience (instead of with friends, family, a therapist etc.) being one of the worst, most dysfunctional things for the actual human, the comedian. I loved James Acaster's "Cold Lasagna," but I needed that moment when he said something like, "If I'm talking about it with you, I'm Way over it. I have friends, I have a therapist, and that's where I go when I'm still actually processing the trauma."
I think you're right to focus on your expectations going into "Baby J." I also expected more vulnerability because of how it was initially marketed, but it wasn't as jarring for me, as it sounds like it was for you, that he talked about these things on stage like John Mulaney The Performer. Those were still personal and difficult moments that he chose to share but he did it through the medium of his style of comedy performance. I think that's a perfectly fine decision for him to make about exactly how much he wants to share with people he doesn't know. I'm not Mulaney's family, I'm his audience. Maybe your taste in comedy is just a bit different than what John Mulaney wants to make right now. That doesn't have to mean either of you are doing something wrong.
8:30 - Roasted? That's the whole point of the joke. They laughed, as did the audience. It landed as a part of the routine. Is he going to say it, is he going to say it, oh he said it. What are you talking about?
I think the realness mixed with its hilarity really worked for me. I thought it was such a funny and earnest watch, and I wasnt aware of his addiction going in I just saw that he had a new special and watched it
I loved the special honestly. Think its his best in awhile.
He talked about being a blackout alcoholic in his first major special. If people were surprised by rehab, they just weren’t listening.
I think to say a stand up comedy special about dark subject matter wasnt dark or real enough for you sort of tells me that you don't know many people who've gone through horrible shit and use humor to cope. They don't say the darkest shit possible related to their circumstances, because it doesn’t make them feel better AND it's not funny. It just... makes everyone sad.
Like that awful Hannah Gaddy, spilling her trauma all over the stage so the audience applauds her ... but they don't laugh. Because she hasn't dealt with it enough to be able to make it funny? Maybe.
I think using James Acaster's 'Cold Lasagna' is the perfect example for what 'Baby J' could and arguable should have been. Acaster didn't go to rehab but he did have a serious mental health crisis that threated both his life and career- and his first special coming back was a complete break from his known persona of many years. He went from the most emotionally-distanced, absurdist, abstract type comedy he'd been known for doing for many years to detailing thoughts of suicide, inappropriate therapist behavior, and the brutal endings of relationships both professional and personal... and somehow managed to make it funny. Very funny. Conversely while there were moments in Baby J that I think were genuinely hilarious, the overall tone is so cold and detached from the basics of humanity that the main feeling I was left with was disgust. I should have felt empathy for Mulaney's struggles. Here's one of my favorite comedians going through this unimaginably dark time but I felt more sorry for Pete Davidson in the recreation of their phone call were Pete worried people would blame him, than I did for Mulaney in the entire runtime of the show. Because it was vulnerable. And honest. The problem with John Mulaney's new comedy isn't that he's sober now and 'not zaney anymore' as he clearly still is. It's that he feels fake. And mean. That watch pawning story made me hate him. How can you talk about pissing money away like that with the world the way it is and expect people to be on your side?
Conversely, Acaster's special also incorporates social issues as a way of 'rebooting his persona', and by letting us know that even though he is finally going to talk about himself, he is not ONLY going to talk about himself.
I know plenty of people will disagree with me and that's fine. But at the very least please watch James Acaster's Cold Lasagna Hate Myself 1999 (perhaps back to back with Baby J) before rushing to argue with me.
great great constructive comparison!!
I think that story about the watch could be considered pretty real and honest. I mean he was really revealing how petty and desperate he was feeling and being honest about the levels he stooped to. and was willing to tell it despite the fact that it was ugly and would make others hate him.
I think him telling stories that show how narcissistic and cruel and selfish he can be IS his way of being vulnerable. He cares so much about what people think of him that it consumed him for years. Now here he is, not pretending to be the squeaky clean wife guy from the 1900s, but telling you the dark underbelly of who he really is. He’s not this perfect silly little guy. He’s an addict who has done terrible ridiculous heartbreaking shit. And he KNOWS it’s terrible, but it’s not his job to perform pity and contrition. It’s his job to be funny. Telling those stories is vulnerable, but in his way. He knows you might hate him, and he’s willing to take that risk, and THAT is brave for someone like him
I haven't seen the special in question, but now that I have seen your video, I feel compelled to see Mulaney's specials. Excellent work.
I don’t want to be too negative but I think you have some really odd expectations, and I think you’ve let overthinking get out of control with this video.
Man this is a crazy deep analysis. I am super stoned right now but I feel like this is the most in-depth analysis of a comedian's work I can even remember ever hearing. Amazing. Definitely a new subscriber. Love it
Oh, you're in for a treat with this channel. His analysis of various comedians' styles and comedic devices is excellent.
"We all went to rehab, and we all got divorced, and now our rep-u-tation is diiiiferent!" (Stuck in my head for days!) 😂😂
You left out one of the prime moments of his recovery time - playing Chip in the Rescue Rangers movie. There's promos he cut for that where he sounds absolutely dead inside.
I remember getting tickets to Baby J in New Orleans when he was touring, and it really was such whiplash to go in expecting the older John Mulaney and seeing this more open and real John whose style was simply different. I don't think I gave it much credit at the live show itself because of how much that whiplash hit me, but looking back on it I do genuinely think it's fantastic :)
Siobhan Brier Aguilar has an incredible video discussing Mulaney’s ex’s memoir, and I think that video pairs so well with this one because it shows a different side of Mulaney. Wherever the special didnt dig deep enough, I feel like that can be explained by how censored his wife feels in her memoir, and how difficult he is as a person to understand despite how relatable his standup can be. We’ll never know who these people really are, and its honestly weird how adamantly Mulaney wants it to stay that way.
What you're wanting is for his stage persona to be in the same place as his real life persona after having going through a rough period. A couple problems with that: 1) That's too jarring for the audience who came to see a brand-name established well before the drugs and 2) It's too difficult to invent this early by a guy who has just come out of a rough period and is still getting situated in this new phase of his life. The special you wanted to see could only be made after this one, but by then he'll have moved on and the material will delve into still other things in his life. Unless he relapses, but I don't know that he'd get a sequel.
Comparison from my own life: I had a rough time as a new parent. At the time I could make jokes specific to the situation, but they were all surface-level comments; I couldn't have given you the additional levels where I'm philosophical about the situation or vulnerability to comment on my mistakes. That takes time. It's hard to give meta commentary while you're still processing everything. Only Deadpool can comment on the situation while in the situation; that's why it's funny.
Sam Harris commented that he often found out what his books were really about after he took them out on tour. While you're writing the book, you think you're becoming an expert on the subject and making a singular point, but it's only after you start mixing with the public and having to clarify points or answer questions that you find out what you were really trying to say. The book wasn't the final product so much as a concrete starting point. So it is with a lot of works. Actors cringe at the performance they turned in because they realize there was room to add a bit more. Directors see where they could have shifted the literal or figurative focus to foreshadow something. And I'm sure even John immediately saw moments where he could have made his special more, well, special.
Appreciate examination of comedy and from a comedian I enjoy.
It reminds me, I thought the same, “could’ve shared more” then also thought, “enjoy what he desires to present.” The latter, is how I took it in.
30:06 On likability, Siobhan Brier Aguilar does a great review of Anne-Marie Tendler's memoir, but she also considerably talks about John Mulaney and this special. She says, " Have you learned nothing? You called likeability a prison so why are you knocking down the door of the jail trying to get locked up again, this time with your babies." I think John Mulaney is still tightly holding on to this polished family man persona that he had before Baby J which makes his supposed "growth" and "vulnerability" so much harder to believe as an audience.
Yeah that video was interesting in how much grace the creator ultimately gave someone who wrote a whole memoir with little to no real self reflection regarding her issues and her life. It was missing what u would expect from a memoir.
And this video is interesting in that making a comedy special should be funny at the end of the day but the criticism is that they wanted him to dig deeper into things that simply might not be something he wanted to make into jokes.
I dont think the expectation for a stand up should be unpacking enough issues that people find u believably venerable.
@@leviackerman5249 he's allowed to have a family and occasionally talk about them. He's not even showing them on social media after the initial new feeling of being a dad. His firstborn's birthday was a few days ago and not a peep from John (and Olivia only showed the party and thanked the catering with only a glimpse of the kid). He's doing normal dad stuff and has a busy career and the way some people examine his every move is appalling, annoying and extremely unflattering to themselves.
As for the memoir, I read it, because I wanted to hear the ex's side of the story on her own life. My main takeaway was she should get a job and stop blaming others for her parents' and her own inability to deal with her own problems causing her issues.
@reen4450 i dont think its about what can or cant be made into a funny joke. i think theres an elephant in the room. and as a comedian its your job to shine a bright light when theres an elephant and say "look everybody its an elephant. cmon lets talk about it, its right here we can all see it." but even while acknowledging the elephant, hes acting like the elephant is no longer in the room and thats why its okay to talk about it now.
@@MMCLLC7 Can u clarify what elephant u mean so i know where talking about the same thing lol Cause I feel like he briefly acknowledged things in the sing songy thing he did at the very beginning and then chose to foucs on material about his addiction. Obviously we as the audience can be satisfied or unsatisfied with what he chose to do material about but its not his job to make sure he addresses every question or concern of the audience.
Thing is, he wasn’t a family man? At least, they were supposed to be DINKs and he very loudly proclaimed that in his shows. He was doing the “wife guy” schtick like Ned from the try Guys. then he knocked up the mistress. So now he’s pivoting to family man since uh, can’t claim you’re this ever loving loyal guy cause you ain’t….
while you aren't wrong about what the routine could have been - I feel like you are missing the fact that it's his show and this was probably a conscious choice to go for a less deep tone. I personally think it's impressive for him to feel not only comfortable to talk about his addictions, but to actually make a whole show be about it. It's his choice for how introspective vs lighthearted he wants to make it, because you can't really do both sincerely. I don't think he failed in any aspects of creating a well-made special, so it feels weird for the video to spend so long focusing on something which was probably considered by Mulaney, before he ultimately took it another direction as is his choice.
This was basically acknowledged in the video already
@@invalidopinion5384 I know, so I don't get why he spent so long on it. Mentioning it as a possible idea sure, but it seems like it's being presented as an actual criticism
Agreed. Our presenter would have done this special differently if he were in Mulaney's shoes? Sure, fine, good for them - but not particularly interesting in itself.
this sort of critique (of, uh, another critic's critique) has always struck me as so bloodless: "yeah, well, the thing you're criticizing was actually a conscious decision by the artist, so because it was a conscious decision by the artist, then i don't understand why you're criticizing it because, well... the artist did it and you didn't."
wow. what insight.
@@mnchls i mean, do u think that teenage dream-era katy perry is bad bc its not radiohead?
to what degree do u think u should be critiquing the thing bc it successfully pulled off something u can recognize as a choice it made versus critiquing the thing bc of failing to pull off something u can recognize as a choice it made?
do u think that instead of recognizing that the dumb pop song wants to be a dumb pop song and critiquing it by that standard, we should instead compare it to japanese math rock?
tho i dont know if that applies to baby J. i got the sense that it wanted to be much more confessional than it actually was
I'm not sure how deep he got into benzos addiction. Klonopin can be extremely bad which I know he took. I have protracted withdrawals 4 years later. These aren't psychological withdrawals which are horrible too, but a unique feature is there can still be physiological or seemingly physiological withdrawal years later
It's weird. I've quit drinking which sucked, and quit all nicotine which was awful, but personally benzos destroyed me. It was a hell that terrifies me. If he's in a similar place, I don't know if he can ever reconcile that. I don't know if he can ever talk about it without detachment. At least not in a very controlled environment involving doctors that say terms like 'cognitive' and 'spectrum'
I'm not excusing it or anything. Just trying to show in a clumsy ass way where his mind might be. I know I'm hyper focusing on just one point but I'm not exactly brilliant lol anyway great video
Halfway through your tearing apart Mulaney's art: "But is this fair of me? Who am I to say any of this?"
Literally one second later: "Another thing I didn't like is ____________."
Mulaney himself doesn't call what he does art, he calls himself an entertainer. Bro is saying why he didn't find it as entertaining.
Good observations. I took a storytelling class and tried telling a story about when I shoplifted $13 of cleaning supplies. The class feedback was that I seemed “proud” of the accomplishment which wasn’t supposed to be the story tale. I felt that with Baby J. He’s a little too proud of himself still being an asshole. He hasn’t changed, he’s revealing he’s an asshole but he’s proud of it (still). It was off-putting the way you point out.
I love this channel so much. The parallel between mulaney and acaster is something i wasn't ready for. Keep up the amazing work
I think alot of your criticisms do not take into account that many of the examples you pointed out about him feeling detached from the jokes were all of the parts that he was talking about active addiction. It would make sense for him to feel disconnected from that material if he is not in that same mindset as he was under the influence. His quick, snappy delivery was all part of him impersonating his addicted self, of course, he would be quick and snappy in the delivery because it's part of the bit because he is showing you how starkly different he felt in addiction. All of that rambling and putting those 'bows' on the jokes were literally his way of giving the audience a sight into his mind because those are framed as his internal monologue as an addict.
I figure if similar 1950s style entertainers like Bing Crosby were describing their alcoholism or similar as part of a variety routine they’d probably keep it pretty light and surfacey too.
That Baby J joke makes me think of Hannah Gadsby talking about comedy and her story about being beaten up. How if she told a part of the story, it was an amusing anecdote, but it hid an ugly and necessary truth from her marginalized life.
I think that's what bugs me about how Mulaney is addressing his experiences. He has every right to be glib and tell jokes, but I don't know how his audience can be unaware of the darkness he's papering over. Or at least, _I_ can't be unaware, so I can't really laugh at the Rolex story. By clinging to his persona, the stories feel like something out of a Pitch Meeting: "That sounds super traumatic, that must have really affected you. How'd you get over it?" "Oh it was super simple. Barely an inconvenience!"
Wowowowowow!
Oh dude the Nanette comparison! 1000000%, you just absolutely nailed it thankyou!
That's the point though? The dark subject matter is why it's especially funny.
@@xrphoenix7194 Sure, but... ok, the closest comparison in the comedy world is Richard Pryor talking about freebasing and the time he accidentally set himself on fire. And that's probably an unfair comparison, we're talking about two different styles of comedy and similar subjects with wildly different outcomes. But I think that underlines the weakness of Mulaney's style for this subject matter. It doesn't feel cathartic, it feels like someone trying desperately to demonstrate how he's fine, he's fine, he's fine, he's over it.
And that may be me. But for me, knowing what I know about what John Mulaney's been through (I've not been following it in detail, but...), I find it interesting that his life has changed dramatically, his goals have changed (he used to talk about never wanting kids) but his comedy style has stayed functionally the same despite his cliams that he no longer needs attention. That's a powerful life preserver. Or straitjacket. Or both.
@@csblakeleyI dont think he claimed he doesnt need attention. He admitted he loves attention. But either way I dont see what that would have to do with changing his comedy style. He has a clear voice and style why would he change that just because things in his life are different. Most people that like him like his style of comedy....most people that like any specific comic likes the style of comedy they do and if they want a different style they look to a different person.
It’s been a while since I watched Baby J, but I remember feeling similarly taken aback by Mulaney’s detached persona in this special. I know he doesn’t owe his audience vulnerability, and at the same time, I don’t think it is unreasonable for the audience to crave it. Mulaney’s previous specials relied on his likability. Jokes like “chase through the subway” depend on our perception of Mulaney being endearingly awkward and good-natured. It’s a harmless joke because we believe(d) Mulaney to be a harmless person. That is why the heel turn in Baby J was so jarring: his jokes stopped feeling harmless.
In every story in Baby J, Mulaney casts himself as the villain. Over and over again, he tells us how terrible he was, to the point where even his dealer seems sympathetic by comparison. I’m sure this was intentional, and it could have been very poignant if it felt more honest - if it felt like we were watching a man who had reflected on his wrongdoings and taken accountability, truly and deeply. Instead, he gives us a laundry list of reasons to dislike him with no evidence to the contrary. He destroys the likability that his comedy relied so heavily on, and in favor of what? What payoff does he give us to break the tension he has built up? There is no catharsis in Mulaney’s confessions, no real resolution to offset the heaviness in his stories. Baby J just feels hollow.
I mean this entire special is exactly what it is like when you are with an addict whether it's friends or dating. It's almost like they are completely unaware.
It was super funny, so it did its job.
This is such a weird video and made me very uncomfortably. Telling a public figure, "you should have been more open and vulnerable about this horrible part of your life" is just so so weird and frankly a little gross
Idk if you finished the video, but it does critique that parasocial perspective that you are referring to
@@evanfinke6265 lamp shading if anything. Just because he acknowledged that's what he was doing doesn't mean it isn't a bad thing to do
Great to hear Chris Kent mentioned by Acaster, hes a gem here in Ireland. One of the best.
Got to watch from scratch when Mulaney visited Green Bay a few years ago. I appreciate your mention of the change in tone as that show felt deeply personal and real.
You need friends not comedians lmao the way people see comedy now completely defeats the purpose. “Less funny more sad, tell me more about you stop making me laugh you’re too funny” it’s a standup special not group therapy
After watching your standup it makes sense that you would have the bias that standup needs to be completely vulnerable. I liked your standup but I think it got to be self indulgent and more about yourself than entertaining the audience. You played a clip of John saying that at 23:50 he wanted to be more of an entertainer instead of somberly expressing facts. Maybe the shift from the early sets to the final product was tweaking it to give more joy and entertainment to more people. You have a narrow view of what makes a successful standup set. Jerrod Carmichael gave you the closest thing to what it seems like you are asking for and it didn’t seem like you liked that either so idk what you want.
You talk about pissing your pants in class with no punchline.
honestly, i really loved the special
all your points are completely valid and I loved the video but he doesn't owe us an explanation on being an addict, its his personal thing
what he puts on the table is whats up for speaking about
if you didn't like the baby j punchline then we clearly have different comedic tastes. i came into it wanting a comedy special, you came into it wanting a tell-all memoir. idk why you had this expectation but you clearly struggle to let it go.
I could really resonate with Baby J as a recovering addict. There are so many stories that I might find really darkly funny, but other people just look at as depressing and horrifying.
“Baby J” is tough because it feels like the more I watched, the more it felt like watching it was enabling him. Going back to stand-up and touring so quickly and spending so little time in rehab was such a huge red flag and it’s like I was participating in the current self-medication
i think expecting him to further exploit his trauma for a “more interesting special” is deeply unfair. he doesn’t scratch the surface more than he needs to and i don’t think that’s a bad thing. i personally loved the special, but even if i hadn’t i still believe that that closeness vs detachedness with the stories you’re telling really shouldn’t be critiqued by the public. it’s such an intimate thing to question.
Recovery gives people a whole new perspective. He's still figuring out what that is.
Ayyyyyyy my boy reviewing my boy!
This video is great, I'm a big fan of Mulaney's earlier specials and found Baby J to be off-putting, but I didn't know why. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for expressing things so well, I really appreciate this video
He did mention the divorce briefly in his opening song
While i agree that he does not answer all of the questions surrounding his addiction, well... Should he ? Why would he owe us that ? he Gives just enough information that we need, i don't feel like he owes us an in depth psychological analysis of himself, he did great with this special to me
this has everything I love in a video essay. The explaining the function/theories of comedy was great, the Bergson quote really cements this video as a comedic critique. I also always appreciate Flight of the Conchords. I think Mulaney attributed his comedic success to drug use- which is greatly unfortunate because he has spent decades fine-tuning his timing and cadence.That amount of time needs concentration and passion that drug use doesn't offer. Baby J was Mulaney at the most uncomfortable I have seen him, his technical skills really carried. I'm excited to hear his jokes when he has relaxed into his sobriety :]
As far as the differences between early shows and the final polished special, I’ll say: I saw Mulaney at a 40 capacity theater in LA years and years ago, just doing a small set, and his whole energy was so different from anything I’d ever seen him do. You got the sense that you were seeing a more “real” him, something closer to how you’d imagine he is with his friends. He was wearing a tshirt and jeans, and the rhythm and energy weren’t at all the fast-paced, theatrical thing we see in his filmed specials. My guess is he’s a comedian who plays to the room he’s in. And the way he polishes his act for the filmed version is completely intentional.
But gosh did I love seeing him play that small room with that rough, relaxed energy. Try to see him in a smaller venue someday if you can!
I dont know, as a psychiatric paciente, I love the special, the pacing and lack of thereof, It is just how the Mind of many people Works.
Saw from scratch in Atlantic City. Honestly laughed a bunch but it wasn’t like his past work. I’d recently lost my last grandparent so hearing those dead grandparent jokes got under my skin. I’m also a writer/author so words and this stuff hit me in many similar ways. Not everything needs to be talked about but man there’s always parts to hide.
this reminded me that video essays are supposed to be poignant
Saw a (long) video critic of his ex's book, and between that video (it's great, check it out) and this one, I can't help but feel that he has carefully crafted his persona all along, wich is not a bad thing in itself, but I think it is not completely honest, especially considering that this special has that "sincere" or "conffesionary" approach. His comedy is great, both the writing and the acting, but I feel that as consumers we need to have a critical perspective, so as not to fall for a charming character without thinking twice about it.
If you're expecting "honesty" from a standup comedian I think you need a lot more than a "critical perspective" to get your head right.
He still cares what people think, that's why he can't get too vulnerable.
i think the whole tone of the special was perfect for the time and context. when the news all came out it was hard to imagine that being the same guy that the audience knew from his previous persona. when i saw the show live on tour, i remember wondering what i was going into, but it felt correct. it was like “oh ya this is the same guy from before, hes just gone through some shit now”
if he had come out there and given us a hannah gadsby style dark comedy monologue, it would have only furthered the gap between the perception we all had and what had come as such a shock in the news
I just started the video and I'm already mindboggled-pure clean comedy from John Mulaney? So some people DO completely remove from memory the times he spoke about being an alcoholic and addict. I'm flabbergasted every time someone talks about his old routines as something that was cute and harmless. The suit and haircut did blind you all.
(Also how much more personal did you want him to get? The man admitted he let himself be sexually harassed for a prescription and indirectly pointed out that's one of the things he's willing to tell you. Did you want him to delve into that)
As for not scratching beneath the surface, I appreciate it. I appreciate that he withholds the juicy stuff because it's no one's business but his. He's entitled to privacy and as he himself says, 1) don't believe the persona, 2)you only get to know what he chooses to tell you and you have no right to be whiny about it. The gossip and drama is unnecessary for understanding that he's put himself through dark stuff because of insecurity and now he's trying to heal and move on.
I am once again left disappointed by the entitlement of people wanting to dissect and eviscerate someone for morbid curiosity. Take the jokes he gives you and either laugh or find someone else.
Also I'm glad he didn't include the divorce. I tolerated the jokes about his relationships, I never cared for the wife (found her annoying actually), and I wouldn't have cared for divorce jokes. I'm hoping to never hear about that one woman again after having to bite my tongue on how insufferable she came across for me, both through jokes, clips like from Comedians in Cars getting Coffee, and other people's accounts. I made an effort to be civil and fair by reading her memoir and whoa she didn't do a favour to herself.
Also it's obvious there's an NDA in place. I'm happy for it. Let them both shut up about it.
You hateread a memoir? Thats so fuckin odd
@@uns33n no, I said I read it to try and be fair in my opinion of her. Her own words should be my best chance for that. It's unfortunate that they just reinforced my dislike.
@beaq6755 that's more weird. You don't know this woman at all.
Yeah but this glib and cheerful attitude toward his past addiction and other trauma is nothing new for Mulaney. He's talked about his addiction in his comedy in the past, and always in this same "tee-hee oh well" sort of way that yes, seemed a bit unhealthy to me. Maybe you address this later in the video, but I lost interest because your apparent thesis (as posed at the beginning of the video) that he's *newly* disingenuous doesn't make sense.
I've read his ex book and....I kinda get it why he drank, and I say this as a woman ok? no misogyny or anything, but it totally changed how I saw John, at first when the divorce happened and right after marriage, I was like "wtf???" but now I'm like 'yeah, I get it"
You mean th book she was nda’d out of actually writing anything of substance in?
From my own experience, i differently think he is going to relapse and find fewer friends interested in helping him
Finding the comedy in a previous self strikes me as pretty vulnerable. I suppose I am wondering what catharsis you need from him and what questions you wanted answered.
Brilliant video. I really enjoyed Baby J. But I agree with your analysis. The slightly glitzy way it's shot is adding an element, be fascinating with something like this to release it with a second recording in a basement comedy club.
Have you seen Django Golds self published special on here? Would recommend.
I haven’t! I’ll make sure to check it out
I think your perspective is a fascinating one and there are elements where I agree. But I fundamentally disagree with your thesis statement, which I think you also acknowledge may not be appropriate for a comedian. It’s a comedy show. Make me laugh. Be personal and provocative if you like, but make me laugh. It’s your job. It’s a hill Norm Macdonald *literally* died on. He revealed himself personally only when it suited the comedy. For this reason and this reason alone, Baby J is pretty damn good. Not great. But good.
guys i dont think he gets it
I honestly left this video confused on what you wanted from him in this special. I feel like his special was the most relatable of his and is the one i enjoyed the most. It was vulnerable and acknowledged the audience like “hey we all know what happened its time to laugh at it” and managed that balance between hilarity and traumadumping. The comment made about his drawn out “winter coats” bit was the only thing i really understood and felt was an incredible analysis but everything else was just a bit too subjective rather than being objective criticisms of where the comedy fell flat.
I like how you connected James and John, I always thought they had a similar kind of comedy but James had a more polished version