How GOOD Was Marco Pantani REALLY?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ม.ค. 2021
- Marco Pantani is one of the legends of cycling despite only winning 23 wins in his career. But for Pantani, it is more the quality of the wins rather than quantity and how he won. Marco Pantani holds many of the fastest climbing times such as Alpe d'huez, Mortirolo and Piancavallo.
I tried to beat Marco Pantani' Alpez d'huez Record on an E-bike: • I TRIED TO BEAT MARCO ...
Statistics obtained from www.procyclingstats.com
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Check out when I tried to beat Marco Pantani' Alpez d'huez Record on an E-bike: th-cam.com/video/Xmvmhpe3rzw/w-d-xo.html
Loved watching Marco. He just looks so “ right “ on a bike. At one with the machine. Cool on the bike. A brave descender and of course nobody climbed like him. Done it all with style. My hero.
Greatest climber cycling has ever seen.
Doper
@@ostojamartrix they all were back then
@@stihldavebergen3469 i now that and dont like them..
@@ostojamartrix at least he wasn’t doing it whit usa army stuff
🔥✊🏾M😉s Deff!!…👊🏾
So sad how this poor guys life turned out at the end. No doubt the greatest climber ever.
As italian and huge fan of Marco I can truly say that it's career was a roller-coaster from start to finish. The accidents and crash which affected his performances. The Pantani from 1994 could've won tour and Giro 2 more times with the experience of Pantani 1998. The saddest part of his life was when it was kicked out of the giro due to anomalies in his blood. Pantani took the blood test twice. the night before and straight after the exclusion. His blood was regular as for UCI regularation. During that year Pantani had become a serious problem for Italy because is dominance and popularity had taken over other sports. Moreover, the mafia had put serious bet on Pantani losing the Giro for high returns. Pantani Blood commissars didn't come from UCI but from the Italian cycling federation, hence a national body. The same had been corrupt by mafia and paid off to incriminate the Pirate. The test was taken omitting some important procedures and the vial was put away in a jacket pocket instead of being stored according to the regulatory procedures. Pantani exclusion from the Giro was seen by him as an act of power against the same . Someone wanted him out, and wanted to destroy him . Pantani was a motivated, determined and obstinate as person, even his dramatic during the injuries recovery ,always showed the willingness to come back racing . However, he was also very emotionally fragile. From that bloody 5th June 1999 , his morale went completely down, and as a result he entered a negative vortex that led him self destruction. The shame , the embarrassment and the conviction to have been framed , made him losing courage to fight against his enemies. The Italian media , made up stories on him to make audience and viewers and by doing this his depression trapped him in a bubble which he was never able to recover. The people who stood by him were no able to rescue an athlete , a man a hero that only after his death was glorified. The very last climber the cycling world has loved and admired.
He was on EPO since 1995?
I believe that he was not only framed to lose the Giro, but eventually perhaps even murdered, as nobody has yet explained the bruising on both his wrists and ankles. Maybe I'm just naive, but in my opinion - nobody using cocaine as a recreational drug throws a handful into a bottle of water and just drinks it! Even if he was depro and/or suicidal, someone has yet to explain the bruises . . . Many good people have been destroyed by the mob for not complying to their whims and desires.
@@mdk9495 Said bottle of water was not analyzed and "mistakenly" destroyed exactly the morning that an examination permit was signed.
@@mdk9495 what would be the motive for murdering Pantani? He was already in a depressive and self-destructive state, taking "recreational" drugs, broken up with his gf, shamed and suffering nationalist revulsion in the belief that he had cheated. It's much more likely that there was no conspiracy here (although there probably was in the doping allegations and findings) and he just slid into an abyss and it killed him. The Italian police at the time were known as much for incompetence as corruption.
There was an article I read about how the mafia asked him to "lose" the race, and because he didn't they would've lost big money . . . I follow a lot of mob people and the way this went down is mafia through and through. The bruises on both his legs and wrists, added to cocaine mixed in water must make me wonder if he was held down and the stuff forced down his throat. Gotta admit it was all just weird.
I used to watch TDF on my windtrainer in the 90's and I used imagine myself chasing these cycling gods. Marco Pantani what a legend!
I'm from Spain. Marco is my absolute idol, before Miguel Indurain. He is the greatest climber of alltime (with Fede Bahamontes and José Manuel Fuente permission). Is was a pleasure to see his performances. We miss you Marco, we miss your romantic vision of cycling. Rest in peace Pirate ❤. Great video.
Marco Pantani is the greatest pure climber of all time. His time on Ventoux is the fastest ever. The three fastest times ever on Alpe d'Huez are by Marco. Did you read that? The three fastest times up Alpe d'Huez are held by 1)Marco Pantani, 2)Marco Pantani, 3)Marco Pantani.
When he attacked on a climb he didn't just get away and hold it. He flew away like a rocket!
True. Lance Armstrong and Jan Ullrich made similar statements in the past years. They said Marco was the best pure climber they ve ever seen, and they saw them all, be it pre or after Marco.
@@chrisbach1533 considering Marco beat Armstrong fair and square in courchevel 2000, when he was already depressed, cocaine addict and barely training, we could fairly say he was on a whole other level in climbing. In 2000 he weighed 61kg, at his best condition he was 53-54 kg , thats a lot less weight.
Indurain also stated that when Pantani attacks, you sit and go on your own pace
Overall i agree, but when it comes to the Tour 2000 you cant just take Courchevel. Armstrong beat him in Hautacam and on the stage before Courchevel (this wasnt the final climb, maybe it was the Col Izoar or what ever the name of that mountain is), Mont Ventoux it was a draw and Pantani won Courchevel. So in 2000 it was like this:
2 wins for Armstrong
1 win for Pantani
1 draw
So Lance won that in 2000. But like you said Marco was already done during that time.
A very unique rider with a lion's heart, he gave us a lot of great memories.
Simple answer to a simple question. Pantani was one of if not THEE best ever climber.
Marco was and will be the most true and inspiring cyclist. A true lover of cycling with deep knowledge of bikes. The fact that every day was responsible for his bike maintenance makes him beyond everyone by far the most dedicated rider. With respect and focus on cycling. For me as a beginner in 93 gave me courage and vision to discover a sport that still controls my existence. Forever in our hearts, beloved!
We'll never forget Marco.
This man is why I do cycling
I was lucky enough to ride along side Pantani and his Mercatone-Uno squadra during their warm-up on the first stage of the 1998 TDF in Dublin. I was also there to see him win the Mont Ventoux stage of the 2000 TDF - despite yo-yoing 'off the back' virtually all day.
Without doubt.....he was the greatest cyclist I have ever seen and nobody [and I mean NO body] was a better climber. My Hero. RIP il Pirata
The Maradona of the Mountains... both greatly missed.
your comment is such a jewel! salute, sir! 🔥
One of the greatest climbers ever. Love his style....out of the seat, in the drops....unique. Deserves his status as a legend.
love and miss the pirate. A gem of a cyclist and person.
Insanely good. He was a master. Rip ❤
this is soo nostalgic and brings out all the good memories. thanks for this video 🔥
Rest in power, il pirata! ✊🏴☠
I have been following cycling since I started racing in the early 1970s, which doesn't sound that impressive but I am from Australia, where cycling is not that popular. It is very difficult to say who my favourite rider is, but Pantani is in the top 5. This video is very emotional for me because even almost two decades after his untimely death I still feel sad that he felt there was no options left but to take his own life. Cycling really does create such a risk/reward environment for drugs, but when these young men are caught, they are ostracised. It is still rampant, particularly micro dosing. Arguably the most beautiful sport of all, is also one of the most destructive on the athletes. Pantani rest in peace.
He died on my birthday 😔
I lived on Lac Léman, Suisse for 12 years; a few years after he died, my Brit friend was chasing an Italian woman, so we somehow were invited to the Italian woman's friend's birthday party in Lausanne.
A beauty showed up, with a huge pot of risotto aux champignons...it was the best item served. I never met that beauty.
But I made a new friend that night ~ she said "You didn't meet her? She was Marco Pantani's girlfriend, when he died..."
❤️
I loved seeing Pantani ride and I think he never really got over getting thrown off the 1999 Giro.
agree his climbing was hypnotic
I am a massive Pantani fan and know he was murdered as well as having it covered up!
I also love cycling and have virtually all his cycle racing kits from 1995-1998!
It is extremely hard to get certain bits, I have been extremely lucky to source them.
I am also the opposite of him as I am 6'3" tall, and a bit overweight.
I am now 53 years old, and ride my top-end Italian Colnago C60 with Campagnolo Super
Record EPS, Bora Ultra wheels, etc.
oh cool! who cares?
Agree. I have some of his kit, 2 Colnago (c40 and a tecnos master) and just turned 60. I remember watching those epic stages live on sbs tv in Melbourne Australia. Epic
@@MyDemon32 why do you answer little man ....even better lowiq mammal
Go away
Thank you for posting this, his battles made me fall in love with cycling and I say this as an Irish man he is my favorite of all time...thanks again
He is truly a legend of the sport and his legend for sure wont die
my grandfather was a huge cycling fan on couch and so one day about 2011-2012 he told you know that when you were bor pantani died in the same night and as a kid i didn´t really think about it much but now i know that pantani was a pure legend and since i am italian it has a +1 on my sympathy ^^
Of course the answer is he was extremely good!
The best. Simply. I have great memories of him sprinting on the climb, I was a child with my grandpa on the sofa, and pantani in tv. Once which the school we went to see the Giro passing through our town in the dolomitic stage, and we know Pantani was there, in the bunch waiting for the mountain, once home he was not anymore.
Enjoyed that please do more of these
July 1998, Sunday afternoon, shortly after lunch. On the Galbier fog, rain and cold. Marco gets up on the pedals and enters the legend. Forever.
Ciao Pirata, non ti dimenticheremo mai, perché tu vivi in quell'emozione che proviamo ogni volta ripensando a quel giorno, a quel momento, a quello scatto.
He had great style on the bike, it was a delight to watch him, ride on the drops, attacking on the biggest hills in the World, I remember him, he was an artist, an outstanding athlete and also a young man who made mistakes, as we all do. Marco Pantani, I salute you.
Didn't remember anything but the name, but after watching this well done documentary, I get the impression that he might have been one of the best climbers in the sports history.
The passion started with him. He is the reason I ride mostly bianchis .He is the reason I climb in the drops. I wasnt even born when he was in the peloton
I own a Mega proXL an XL Ev2 and a Aria
PS i'm 22
He is a legend no doubt, but he comfortably climbed out of saddle in the drops because he was short.
A champion power lifter once told me (paraphrasing): 'when you get to this level of performance it is no longer about the innate talent or strength of your body, but about your tolerance for performance enhancing drugs. Where one athlete may have more talent, strength and endurance to train while clean, he may only be able to tolerate X of a performance enhancing substance, while a lesser athlete may be able to tolerate 2x of the same substance, allowing him to train harder and gain more performance'. Whatever you think of Pantani and his contemporaries, you can never compare doped athletes to clean ones. It's a totally different set of capabilities.
you really think todays cyclists are clean?
@@cianmckeaney3608 What I think is neither here nor there. But I wouldn't hesitate to claim the top teams are on the bleeding edge of nutrition and recovery technology. In how far these are 'illegal' is anyone's guess, and claiming anything pertaining to the extent they 'will' become illegal would be witchcraft. Unfortunately I don't float.
@@landiepete But.... "you can never compare doped athletes to clean ones. It's a totally different set of capabilities." What? What clean ones, in cycling?
Glad someone pointed this out to all the fanbois. The riders of that era were fun to watch, but we’ll never know how good they really were.
Thanks for putting this together. Brings back a LOT of memories. Marco was awesome and seeing those old kits... wow. I still have the blue Mercatone Uno TdF kit and also a full yellow MU kit (and actually red Pinarello team bike, as I'm a big fan of Eros Poli). Come to think of it, an episode on Eros would be awesome... highlighting his Ventoux stage win.
Glad you enjoyed it
This is really interesting and well put together. It must have taken a lot of time. People can say a lot of things about Pantani, but holy smokes could he ride a bike (doping or not).
Ja so true, such an icon of the sport. My old coach knew him when he was 15 years old and my coach was a pro and Pantani destroyed him and his team-mates on a 5k climb
He was framed!
it's like to believe that the other bikers was not doped..hahahahahha :-)
I remember the excitement I had from watching him as a kid, and how much of a heartbreak I got when it was revealed he was breaking the rules. The memory of seeing him on the drops and climbing up anything at an insane speed is still alive and we are still waiting for someone else to bring that level of excitement again
Well said and yeah his style and agressiveness was amazing
ricco, tried must did the same
did the rest of you break the day you found out they all cheat??
people now are sick pharmaceutical sheep a rider will come from some small village with no vaccines and yawn as he overtakes the sickly riders from rich countries
Non ha infranto nessuna regola
I JUST WATCHED ALL HIS TDF STUFF HERE AND LOVED ALL OF IT ESPECIALLY HIM VS LANCE , ALSO love the facts he still holds the fastest records on all those climbs !! now l gotta go check out his set up
There is a recent Italian movie about Pantani; "The Pantani case - The murder of a champion (2020)". Was to be released in 2020 but I have not seen it.
Brilliant video!
If you watch back his alpe d’huez performance in 1997 - it’s absolutely ridiculous
I am italian and was born in the same city of Pantani, Cesena. I know were he comes from, Cesenatico, a beach city on the Adriatic Sea, not too far from Rimini.
There are statues and murales dedicated to him. We "Romagnoli" and generally italians cry each time Pantani is mentioned or we see an old video of him.
You simply can't stop sobbing in front of his story, his legendary performances, his kind soul.
I was 6 when he won the Giro and Tour, after coming back home from school and lunch time my father stood in front of the tv, watching him. Everybody was so proud of him.
One time a journalist asked Pantani in italian: "Marco how can you go so fast while climbing?"
He replied: "to relieve faster my agony".
I'm sure Marco is one of the top cyclist in history and will always be.
Pantani fue un dios.
Very, Very good video and tribute to one of "THEE GREATS" for sure. Thank you for doing this. I hated Lance Armstrong and I couldn't stand Lance's arrogance by making the statement that he gifted Marco the one on that stage.
Thank you Mike for the kind words! And true agree about Lance's arrogance
Armstrong did a bad thing there, personally I don’t care about all the drugs they took and I do believe Armstrong shouldn’t have been stripped of the seven wins but the one thing I’ll never forgive him for is putting doubt in Marcos mind as to wether he actually won the stage or was given it, that was a low move and was uncalled for.
Excellent video. I love his passion for riding.
A tortured genius . RIP Marco.
Thank you @thecyclingdane for this video! Finally someone who doesn't always focus on the bad things Marco did outside of cycling but on the magical cycling moments he gave us!
Again, as a huge Marco Pantani fan, I thank you! R.I.P. Marco
P.S. you need to work on your pronounciation of Col du Galibier LOL
Appreciate that! :) And yeah that pronunciation after I have no idea why I didnt pick that up lol
The doping was rampant back then but I can always appreciate the shear suffering and competitive will of these gladiators. Amazing and fearless performances. Racing seems more calculated now (perhaps easier to have a bad day with less doping going on). Alaphilippe has brought back some of the old school panache for sure. He may never become a grand tour rider though.
He was REALLY REALLY that good-cycling God! Great video thank you so much!
Fantastic video!
Thank you very much! Glad you liked it :) Will do more
I also ride Bianchis and am a big fan. I have and ride all of his model race bikes: XL Pro, two ev2's and two ev4's. The bikes still hold these climbing records and I would not ride anything else. I also just got an ev4 to restore. Pantani had so much style and heart he distanced himself from all the others especially Armstrong
Pity he didn’t ride a Bianchi built frame. All built by outside builders.
Have you had any trouble with welds or downtubes cracking? Do the frames lose stiffness after many miles of riding?
I am 210 lbs and ride several times a week. This imcludes my XL Pro since 1999. no frame problems with any of them i have seen head tube failires with the ml. i maintain my fleet and make sure everything is tight, oil and functioning.I ride at 125 psi. xl pro, four ev2, 2 ev3 and 2 ev4.A good overhaull every winter.. no issues.
great job man!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it Edward
thank you for this cool video!
He was a Cycling God. Though there remains solid reasons why his record breaking times on the mountains still hold. And may never be beaten. He was drugged to the eyeballs. It does not distract my admiration of him though. Most cyclists were doped up in that era. He was a legend 💪
Theyre still drugged on better more sophisticated bikes and still they cant beat marco or get anywhere near his records but maybe someone will eventually haha
@@edwardo7309 no. Sorry. That's where you're wrong. There is now almost no drug taking compared to the prolific, institutionalized drug taking of the 1990s. Doping tests are so rigorous now that riders and teams barely take these risks which is why stage and grand tour times are several minutes slower than they used to be. Doping riders are rare. Fines are severe and careers are finished.
@@AndyMoore007 I’m sure they still find a way to dope like Bradley wiggins
Please provide empirical evidence for your wild and unsubstantiated claims.
@@stevecooper7038 that’s a very similar response to what Lance Armstrong used to say
Pantani!! The man responsible for me wearing a bandana and Briko sunglasses for the past 20 years. RIP MARCO.
I remember riding down to Brighton to watch the tour in 1994 and we found ourselves outside the carrera team hotel, I managed to bag the team postcard collection and got them all signed except Marcos unfortunately. Great days.
Excellent video.
1998 - what a year !
Marco rode a smaller 44 chainring, not that 36 kindergarten from nowadays.
it is easier when you have 60+ hematocrit level.
@@HudoHudHudec ohhh the good ole days...
Hahahahaha
i have 36\28, but most ppl now have 34\32 kkk
@@HudoHudHudec he only used it on the flat stages. He rode 39 on the mountains
That was a great video! Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
IL PIRATA 😥🚲
I am glad we can appreciate these amazing riders, and that exciting era in cycling. It's bittersweet of course, knowing as much as we know now :/ But nonetheless it was great as a fan. Great riders, great personalities, great controversy...
Great video. Congrats. Pirata is the GOAT. I like Coppi and Merckx, but Pantani would have been the greatest if the mafia hadn't acted.
Marco was the most gifted climber cycling has ever seen; it was an honour to watch him at his best.
You try doing the same climbs he did, and after the distances beforehand. Try doing them in even remotely the same time. That's how good Marco was. Rest in Peace Marco.
please do a viddy on big mig! and maybe one on ulrich bc he’s always an afterthought lol.
Good idea will get around to that as well
the man who gave me the love of cycling.
My 3 favorite climbers Pantani Contador & Ritchie Porte from Australia when he was going well. As l am an Aussie l have 2 put him in there. Contador said a few yrs back if he was picking a rider 4 his team it would be Porte.
The records are not the only reason for his legacy. It was also his willingness to attack and his speed of attack on steeper sections. Since Marco everything has been dominated by teams helping their star riders and by high tech training and racing apps. The riders today just follow what the algorithms tell them. In the 1990s riders were still responsible for their own destinies. Marco was the last of the great cyclists.
definitely. his creativity, racecraft based on insticts, hunger to reverse odds and predictions, taste for epicness, will to create a spectacle for fans whatever it takes. even if the cost was blowing up. and you knew if he in the race, something was going to happen. the par excellence threat to make the race explode everytime road went uphill.
@@leonardofabbri7930 There was some hope that Nairo Quintana would be the new Pantani. But those were big shoes to fill and as I mentioned there were other factors that made it less possible for an individual to shine in that way.
@@nickbamber268 I know, I know and me too at a certain point thought Nairo could bring same style, but the guy evolved into something too hesitant and reluctant to attack. Now he's definitely long time out of his prime with no apparent reason (I seriously believe his real age different than what always officially declared). TDF editions with him, Valverde and Landa all together in Movistar, ending to cancel each other rather than put pressure on SKY team, were grotesque
One of the very best!
After his horrendous stack in the TDF (I forget the year) I was drunk and I half-jokingly put ten quid on him to win both the TDF and the Giro the next year he was able to ride and then forgot about it. Until he did. At 300-1.
Crazy I was watching the Giro at the bottom of the Passo del Giovo that year. Can only remember Miguel Indurain. Wasn't aware that this would have been Marco's 1st win at the Giro.
the best.
He was one of the best for sure. Watching his form in the mountains help me tremendously inside versus exact height weight etc. So I copy the style. Like I meant the world to me! Who is also the fastest man ever down a mountain at over 80 mph. For real
He also did the fastest climbs without a carbon frame, which pretty much says everything. Bravo
Just a sad tale and the person who knows the truth is gone - that documentary The Accidental Death of a Cyclist showed his heartbroken mother and it really made me sad to see her with so many unanswered questions. Everybody knew the state he was in why did nobody help the poor critter - or maybe the Mob had summit to do with it. Bottom line a mother has lost her son tragically and cycling has lost a legend in questionable circumstances- RIP Marco !
Well said
Best climber ever
We'll never know. EPO was the first drug that distorted grades GC talent by making them all homogenous.
Thank you
Great video. What is the background music?
Great champion
If he could have time trialed as well as he climbed he very well could have been a 4 or 5 time champ
Yeah true he lost HUGE time in the time trials
His 1998 tour win was even more remarkable as he lost so much time on the prologue as he basically barely tried on it
Being pulled off the course during the race, that was the end for him. Mentally, it was over. Humiliation is the end for every man
It would have been the best to see Pantani and Contador race each other at their best.
Contador was good but pantani would have battered him
The Pirate 🏴☠️
He was a fighter at the stages -
Super-man. Pantani a clear and great champion. Q: I wonder to what degree, if he doped. No that it matters, some legends transend their vulnerabilities by the nature of their human qualities.
Would you say the same about Lance Armstrong .. if your comment is true .. without caring if they were really doped ??
The greatest climber ever, Grande Pantani.
Greatest ever
the G O A T of the mountain goats.
God bless his soul my friends.
He was decent for a pirate. He may have challenged Merckx if his ears were smaller. They caught a lot of wind.
Bobby Julich (3rd place, 1998 TdF) didn't even try to keep up with Pantani in the mountains.
He was brilliant when he was so doped up he had to be cable tied to the podiums he was do jacked up 😄
I still don't REALLY know how good was Marco Pantani, in absolute terms. Was he racing "enhanced" or not? I prefer to believe that he was supremely naturally gifted and had a beneficial power-to-weight ratio that made him the best climber of his generation, if not for several generations. However, while I prefer to believe that he wasn't on EPO, and that he was framed, I can't help thinking that a) if everyone was doing it you'd be at a disadvantage if you kept to your ethics and didn't use it also, and b) why didn't he strenuously protest his innocence, at the expense of getting a raft of lawyers and gong to court? I suppose his fragile emotional state and inherent self-destructiveness might explain the latter, and he may have had no knowledge of exactly what treatments he was really exposed to by his doctors which might explain the former. While I want to believe that Pantani was pure, I just don't really know! Regardless, if everyone was taking the same substances then Pantani was still relatively that much more superior to the other riders in the Tour, Giro and Vuelta. It's telling though that Pantani's time up Piancovallo still bests even the modern riders by over one minute and thirty seconds in a 36 minute 20 seconds ride.
Great video honoring a great cyclist, and a great man. RIP Marco Pantani.
I have a Jersey from Mercatone Une.... ....great
The pirata . Marco Pantani
It's hard to tell how good Pantani was given most everyone (including Pantani) was juiced to the gill when Pantani was racing. Maybe there ought to be a category of best juiced climber of all time. Pantani wins hands down.
He would probably had been still good without doping, since doping isn't making people fast, but is making fast cyclists even more faster. Doping don't replace training and skills, it just gives an advantage over people not taking it (but of course most did it, and probably all top cyclists back then did)
Well, we will never really know, because of the dope.
That guy was in his twenties, when he raced, but I swear he looked 40+😅
Impossible to say really. Unless we have his base level markers without drug use then we can't tell how much gain he got from PEDs. Seeing as it's unlikely he ever rode as a pro without using drugs we don't have those numbers, so we can't say how good he would have been without them. I guess we can say that out of all the drug users he was one of the best.
Imho I'd only agree in terms of all time comparisons. In that period, with current knowledge of what was going on, I'm quite convinced that it was not the drugs making the difference, because it was a must for them. Pantani, Ullrich and the others were all victims of a dirty game that was completely out of control sadly. Sad that they had to endure the arrogance and the insults of some other athletes thought to be clean, only to be caught later.
no rider has ever won the double giro and tdf since.. while showing images of Alberto Contador, makes me wonder ;)..