What I drew vs. what they built
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Can you spot all the differences between what I drew and what was built? There's one more that I didn't mention in the video see this link: thirtybyforty....
Clear drawings matter, download my template here: thirtybyforty....
Clear drawings matter. Download my template here: thirtybyforty.com/autocad-bundle
Having worked as a designer, draftsman and building contractor there's plenty of errors to go all around on all sides due to laziness, incompetence and too busy to give proper attention. In a perfect world everyone would be working together to catch errors before they become costly mistakes, but in the real world it really ends up falling on the shoulders of the project superintendent to be constantly reviewing plans on details and constantly reviewing construction progress in detail to catch all errors whether they are design error, drawing error, or contractor error in time for a cost effective solution before it becomes a major costly issue. This is why an experienced project supper is so important due to the fact they're the ones at the bottle neck where everything comes together, but all too often contractors make the mistake of assuming they can get someone cheaper with less experience and just manage them from afar at the main office.
Count yourself lucky. Last week I found out that a contractor took it upon himself to remove all the internal walls without consulting the architect or the engineer. 😬
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cold😂😂
Classic! I had “smart ass” carpenter who ignored SA drawings and fixed floor joists to CLS wall lining structure instead to the stone wall 🤦♀️. Exactly under the master bathroom where on plans was natural stone 250kg bath… but wait for explanation- he is in trade since 20 years so he knows better….
@@oooollllmmmm0987 Sadly, a common story. I've lost count of the times a contractor has said to me that "he's always done it that way" when I'm explaining why he's being dangerously ignorant.
The drawings aren’t for the contractor, it’s for the lawyer.
Hahahahahaha. True that
I understand that in college
A lot of comments excusing the GC because they maybe “couldn’t find the information” in the drawings. Majority of builders not knowing how to read drawings is another discussion, but the #1 rule of building with an Architect is if you can’t find information, ASK, never make it up yourself. If you do (and are working with a good architect) you’ll end up re-doing it 99% of the time.
Exactly! The GC will be fixing this to match the drawings...
I am student, but my mentor, who is technical architect constantly tells me the impotance of controlling the work site; he doesnt allow to put concrete without him present, total security for workers everywhere, changes noted and well documented, and if he need to stop the construction because anything, he will, no matter what.
When you sign, you take full responsability for life and even afterlife (literally). At least in my country.
Your mentor is not from the US then. Here, the architect does not have the right to control the site. They have some limited power, but contractors are responsible for ‘means and methods’ not architects.
@@TheCriticalArchitect Spain. Well, here there are different roles, and some of them can only be done by architects and technical architects or engineers. Some of them are about security in the work site.
@@rbasket8
So long story short- here the architect handles the design and ensures the design is correct and well documented. The contractor handles building, handles site safety, handles the method of construction. The roles are strongly divided because the way insurance and lawsuits work here. If the architect tries to become a safety manager, and one day he’s in his office and somebody on the construction site is injured… well then since the architect took over site safety, they are now liable and can be sued for that injury. But their insurance policy will not cover such liabilities.
If there is a problem with the design, the architect is liable. If there is a problem with construction, the GC is liable.
@@TheCriticalArchitect Thanks for the info.
Here in Spain, as I know, architects are also very technical compares to other countries, like UK where the schools are more artistic. This is the education part. But here also the law here puts the architect or whoever signs the project as the last and ultimate responsible, so if anything happens, the justice system will search for the responsible, but contractors as companies can disapear, and other involved in the construction, everyone can disapear except the architect. Nevertheless, if you can prove that you arent responsible as architect, of per example, an accident, you dont get in trouble, but of course this means economic costs and time (lawyers, secures...).
Of course, here you can also divide responsability, one architect, one techincal architect, one structurist. But you also divide earnings.
Also very common here to have multiple contractors working on same place, one for masonry, another one for concrete structure, other for installations, plumbing... I suppose is slighly simpler for the common project in the US as is more common single familiy house, with timber as main material. But I yave no idea (you can explain me if you want).
Don't do that in the USA. Once you start directing the construction on the site, the GC is no longer responsible for anything that occurs on the job site.
You Are.
I’m a commercial GC. I feel your pain.. i would never let that fly from my subs… and after seeing thousands of plans, yours are a joy to look at!
When these videos pop up, I realize more and more how fortunate I was during my ADU process.
745sq ft new build from ground up.. in fact… the ground was even new because we had to remove a pool and build on top!!!
We had some unforeseen changes but the architect and the GC worked well together and communicated appropriately.
I had zero issues. Zero.
Apparently this is very rare.
I fkn love my GC forever and he’s been invited to the wedding 😂🎉❤
Ha, didn't invite the architect?
That amazing man has two kids under 5 so I didn't get to spend everyday with him like I did the GC :P @@30by40 we also had him update a bathroom after, and previously an entire kitchen. He feels like family at this point lol! BUT THE ARCHITECT IS JUST AS AMAZING I PROMISE!!!!
@@30by40 GC blames architect for anything and everything. GC is the hero. Sometimes, anyway. Maybe not this time.
Not these two. They got along very well and worked hard together. Was very nice. @@TimTimTomTom
I design and build high end custom homes. I know from personal experience that it doesn’t always matter how well you design a product there will always be variables that arise in the field. The best finished product results from a solid design that has some flexibility.
My GC built the first and second floor Framing & Wood Structure without putting in ANY of the new Footings/ Piers/cols. which were specified on the structural drawings -
They came back later and had guys dig in all the new footings and build the piers while underneath in the crawl space.
Remarkably the structure has come out very well, but they took a huge risk because they don't read the drawings.
This is J just another example ofhow contractors get into this "gofever" because they're so obsessed with showing how fast they can go . this is a dangerous form of being a "Suck up" to the client.
Many contractors are just like this wherever you go in the world
Excellent dwg, without making any excuses as a contractor, was a conversation about how critical these details in the door are to your design?
I would accept responsibility because they are in the dwgs, however I would also expect the small details be pointed out up front, in detail and discussed with the client. Many times the design hasn’t been detailed with cost and off the shelf products. It’s a team effort, and everyone has a budget.
I agree that good communication is key to building anything which involves lots of custom work and high expectations. We have a weekly site meeting to review upcoming work where we review drawings and details. Mistakes will always be made, I'm just thankful they were willing to make the changes necessary to bring it into compliance with the contract documents!
In my experience, changes in field happen so often. Anything from roof pitch, roofing material, exterior finishes, all electrical drawings etc… around here I just put way less detail into everything. Which sucks, because details matter to me.
100% agree, details matter. Changing roof pitch in the field sounds like a big change...that would make me want to draw more!
Don't say "details matter to me" and "I put less detail into everything" in the same phrase. If details really mattered to you, you'd do them anyways.
@@barnastil591 not if people aren’t willing to pay for them.
@@mantibarlow6272 you need better clients 🤣
Im working as administrator on site. So actually except site manager I am the person who read the plans because I calculate and order all materials. I literally spend hours to use colourful markers to “translate” architects drawings so simple trades. My personal experience is that 99% of trades cannot or don’t want to read a plans.
Made detailed drawings for key rooms in my new home (2.5 month remodel) inspired by your content, and even though it's not my day-to-day profession, they were a ton of fun to make and guided my contractor to a great finish! Also made it clear to my wife what the gameplay was which we all know is the real hurdle! Couple things were missed but overall a great experience. Cheers!
From where I stand you are the most listened to architect on earth.
I designed a house with 30-foot span trusses to allow space flexibility to be age-friendly. The framer stick built the entire thing with 2x12's because he 'doesn't like to use trusses'. There were no joist hangers, no carriage or lag bolts at the deck, toe nails to connect the LVLs. Aside from the foundation, nothing was like what was shown in the drawings. The Building Inspector failed everything until a licensed design professional would certify the work. I not-so-politely said no and walked away.
We are patiently waiting for a proper video 😅,, its been a while Sir. Wish you the best
what i love the most is that some idiots will look at the finish product and blame the architect or the engineer.
"What we have here is a failure to communicate".......Struther Martin from "Cool Hand Luke"
Would be fun to see this taught in architecture schools.
Working with amateurs or people that just don't care is so frustrating :(
It's crazy they did good with the right gable.
Been there.. Every day sadly.. "glad" to see it's not only happening where I am.
The old, let’s-see-what-the-architect-notices-and-what-he-doesn’t-game!
And when I point things out they say, “We don’t need that many track hangers…”
@@30by40 i don't even know if they really mean to not follow the drawings, be it for fun or by principle (which would be pretty dark) or if they just take them as a mere suggestion and nothing more... Did you find that describing more what you want helps?
@@moufrit We worked it out and things are being fixed. It's much easier to square up when you have the drawings to back you up! Hard to argue when you provide enough detail.
I don't know how it woks over there, but in my country the architect is supposed to be on the worksite supervising the building process. It doesn't need to be you personally, but an architect should supervise the worksite not daily but certainly often
Here in the US, if you act in a supervisory role you assume + accept liability, so we 'observe construction', provide field reports and advise the client + contractor when work doesn't conform to the contract documents. I make site visits once a week, but a lot can happen in a week!
@@30by40 That's the same as in the UK. 'Supervision' has lots of legal implications and is why we hardly ever agree to such a role. We only 'observe' and records things we notice.
Weekly site visits would be so much better! In the UK, contractors actively discourage architect and engineer attendance because they just see them as someone to find problems which will cost them money; far easier and cheaper to just do what they want. Obviously a short-sighted approach, but that seems to be how things are done here unfortunately.
It looks like there are plenty of great details in your notes pointing to the items all the items. Does the stone step say how high, the foundation's height to the ground and the difference between the top of the step to the entrance's floor? We use Acceptance Criteria for software development. A story (feature) is not done until it meets all the acceptance criteria.
It's honestly strange that something like a pull can be forgotten, but stranger things happen and inspectors do call the plan preparers. Good to ahve your ducks in a row.
I work in furniture design and this isn't an uncommon situation either 😅
Gosh. I am so glad i can work with German craftsman. This never happened here. There are some issues with raw construction sometimes, but all the ones after tend to make up for it. I get why you wanted to stop architecture in the US.
Yikes.. sounds like a field day for the inspections team.
Thanks for sharing
Finding a good contractor is about as easy as finding an actual fucking unicorn
Understandably, it is the contractor's responsibility. But weekly coordination meetings, or scheduled inspection on the part of the designer help reduce if not eliminate mistakes.
Agree, this was discovered as part of a weekly check-in.
Always !
Is through what you’re saying. 👍
This is happen so often in programming .... jajaja like everyday. sometimes the budget wasn't enough, problems occur.
Archi student from Korea!! Always thank you for the good information sir🫡🫡
Good one !
One thing i hate is that there will always be a degree mismatch between design and reality. Had to argue with my contractors every time that happens
100%...I really hate the arguing part, especially if it's shown clearly in a drawing!
I am confused by degree part what do you mean?
We have all been there. :)
This always happens. They never follow our drawings. They think they know everything.
Contractors hate architects, "I've been building this way for 30 years." Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you've been building things wrong for 30 years. You need rebar in the footer and foundation walls.
That the client doesn't follow the design is not a surprise, unfortunately it is normal or common.
Contractors are undercover designers 😅
wouldn't it be better for both the designer & the contractor if the one who drew the schematics be present on site for better understanding
Most clients wouldn't pay for this level of construction observation @$200-250/hr. Typical site visits are once a week (for me) and I'm always just a phone call away if there are any questions.
Nice nice
Would a rendering of the section drawing help?
3D and renderings can help but it is much harder to make them accourate and you can not mearsure anything from a rendering.
There is a section, just didn't include it in this short. They also had a hardware schedule and door details!
we ve got such an exhausting job sometimes .... they drive me mad most of the time. when you pay attention to your drawings and have this sense of detail it is such annoying to educate the contractors and level them practice....
Hehe.. tell them to tear it all down and rebuild it. Tell them you will not sign off on it.
But their bid was the lowest (and only reasonable bid) so it’s all good..
Progress vs. perfection.
Are these drawings established with AutoCAD or with Revit?
AutoCAD, more here: thirtybyforty.com/autocad-bundle
How do you redline a drawing when all the dims and anno are already red!? ;)
thirtybyforty.com/drawing-templates
Is it revit?
I drew this in AutoCAD, but I also have a Revit template here: architect-entrepreneur.teachable.com/p/30x40-design-workshop-revit-template-complete/
Will that get corrected?
oh yeah...
@@30by40 do you have any influence over the GCs and subcontractors selected by the homeowner/client?
I'm a part of the process, but the Owner's hire the GC and make the final call. Subcontractors are hired by the GC.
Sounds like it was built by professionals.
I am curious to see your door, hardware schedule and spec, did you supercede the 12 board dimension somewhere? seems like it would leave alot of room for interpretation without the board spacing listed.
Door detail shows the board spacing ("match shiplap groove"). Problem was the contractor admitted to ordering a short track, not enough hangers and that they ‘forgot’ to look at the elevations or door details. There’s more to it, check the blogpost linked in the description.
So you are lucky the contracter or projectmanager didnt hire you to draw what they build from your drawings, demanding you to sign off something you didnt design, or had to redesign.
The only thing contractors care about is getting paid. Not to do good, high-standard work.
So CA was not part of your contracted scope, and this was missed by all in the submittals. Architect/GC relationships are critical when design details matter.
CA is part of scope, however, we can't be on-site every day monitoring every installation. Contract documents show what's required, we have weekly meetings, this one was a miss on the GC's part. They fixed it.
A typical Architectural Drawing vs Construction Drawing case; beautiful graphics is unimportant it's just noise but technicality and standardization is first priority!
Hey, please give tips how to work/design in another country, which code should we learn or what should we learn?
Ever been in manufacturing? Drawings are used to wipe your hands.
100% with you. Seating at your house and looking at the drawings is fun, in fact you call them for more Info and they never answer the F phone.
I think they did a pretty good job considering your drawing doesn't use the actual size of readily available materials. Why is you door moved to the left??? Is it because they needed to meet code to support the header? Did the barn door hardware not come in 13ft (1pc)?...Were you going to pay them enough to have it custom made. If you look at the addition of the material on the ends of door. it is there to ensure the door covers the 6' opening as well as lines up with the boards on the structure.
These drawings don't take reality into consideration. I mean, all the boards are exactly 6".
Custom work, custom solutions...believe me, this was all thought through. The GC admitted he didn't look at the drawings once we had the site meeting. All your questions/objections are answered here: thirtybyforty.com/drawn-vs-built
I feel like the wrong scale and the lack of details drawings are the main problem. The proper scale in 1:50 and and developing of each detail would have solve the problem, also attendends to the building site wouldve prevented this kind of situation
I couldn't show the full drawing set and all the details in this short video. This was a zoomed in example of something that happens all the time: in spite of having elevations, notes, sections, door details and a hardware schedule things weren't built to spec. With clear drawings we're able to point to them and say, "This is what you agreed to build."
Blame yourself for not. Being on site often enough
That's a silly comment. 90% of the "differences" are relative to the door installation which definitely occurred in a single day. An Architect can't be onsite every single day. He could have been there on Tuesday and nothing was installed and showed up Thursday and this was all complete. The other 10% he said he was already aware of because of changes during construction.
Couple ways to avoid this. Clearly dimension and note. There are no dimensions on the top rail. Second shop drawings. Our specs are writen so all contractors are required to submit shop drawings for review. And if you dont note it there its not going to end up that way in field.
Door is dimensioned on the door elevation sheet/schedule which are keyed to the door tag in plan, track is on the schedule.
@@30by40 just because it is a unified set of drawings contractors don't always read them. The information is there on the schedule, but if it's also on the elevation that's one less argument you have to have with them to get what is ok the contract documents.
Not reading the drawings, schedules + specs doesn't absolve the GC of the responsibility to construct it according to the contract documents.
@@30by40 It depends to some degree on the type of construction contract. When the contract is "cost-plus", the contractor is often keen to pass along the cost of correcting mistakes as "additional cost" with the notion the way they did it was more efficient and therefore would have saved the owner money. It's often hard to argue against the "saving money" angle, since as an Architect I have no control over material or labor costs. So I often find myself having to pick my battles- and when it's important enough, carefully explain why it was drawn the way it was to show the owner and the contractor that the way it was built was inferior and needs to be redone. Yes, it can be very frustrating.
hell no
Your door track needs to be 13 to 14ft long. Did you verify that the track came in that length? It looks like the contractor reworked the door to fit a 12ft track. likely all that was available. It also looks like the contractor matched the brackets to the studs available (16in centers?). Did you indicate blocking for equal spacing for structural brackets? Did you factor the added expense for welding together a longer rail? The delays for custom door pulls? The client is not going to want to absorb the added costs and the contractor likely discussed it with the home owner and not you because he felt that you didn’t have a grasp of the construction, budget, & timeline. I recognize that the aesthetics are important, but specifying hardware and confirming availability and practicality of the install have to be reviewed. It’s the main part of job management.
As they say, "This ain't my first rodeo..." Track is 12' long (yes, it's available in that length and they admitted they ordered the wrong length). It's an exterior pocket door (you can see on the note) which requires a large continuous header above it so there's plenty of solid nailing to accommodate the hangers spaced as drawn. Door pull is an in-stock item. And lastly, these aren't "added costs" they're the cost of doing the work correctly. They had the drawings, they had the specs, and they had my phone number if they wanted to ask questions. I approve all invoices and scope changes, this is standard project management. Change in scope or schedule is via change order; it's a process.
Contractor includes availibility/lead times and custom pricing when he bids. That's part of his part of the project.
It's just painful to watch
Yea as beautiful as your drawings are, if your contractor cannot find the details he needs to assemble your design he will find another way to do it himself. When you finally did the zoom out to your full drawing it did not have any construction notes on it whatsoever unless it's on another page. You see what I'm getting at here.
I couldn't show the full drawing set and all the details in this short video. This was a zoomed in example of something that happens all the time: in spite of having elevations, notes, sections, door details and a hardware schedule things weren't built to spec. With clear drawings we're able to point to them and say, "This is what you agreed to build."
@@30by40 Inspection dates perhaps? I remember when I was working in this sector we would often do at least a framing inspection with the excuse that we were verifying the plumbing mark outs. I know this doesn't solve the ultimate problem but its useful if the sites are close enough to you.
What you draw not important. Craftman skill makes sense
I think drawings from the architect really do matter. Its his project, he knows what the clients expect, knows composition and general aesthetics. With that being said architecture is not a field where everyone can do what he wants
Both are important!
Sorry, that's clearly rubbish. The drawing is a legally binding document, unlike some nebulous and subjective 'craftsman's skill' over-ride statement which would have no come-back for the client who's paying for something that's not been correctly fabricated.
Typical everyone wants to be In charge