BJJ Experts Breakdown Videos of Aikido Masters • Moriteru Ueshiba, Gozo Shioda
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2018
- BJJ experts analyse two videos of Aikido grand masters demonstrations, pointing out the flaws in logic, training methods and some potential in their technique.
The masters in analysis are Moriteru Ueshiba - grandson of Aikido founder Morihei Ueshiba, who was responsible for expanding the biggest Aikido organization in the world known as Aikikai. The second video features Gozo Shioda, one of the main students of Morihei Ueshiba and famous Aikido master known for a more rough, pre-war style of Aikido.
The two videos are analyzed by Straight Blast Gym Portland's BJJ coaches Cane Prevost (2nd degree BJJ black belt, also Taekwondo black belt), John Mertlich (BJJ brown belt) and Rokas Leonavicius (3rd degree Aikido black belt, BJJ white belt).
This video is the first part of a two part video, where in the second part we will take a look together at one of the Aikido techniques from the video on the mat and will try to make it functional.
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A little explanation why there are Aikido techniques on the knees. The ancestor of modern Aikido is Daito ryu jujitsu by the Takeda family. A few 100 years ago, the duty of the Takeda family was to protect the shogun's palace. In the presence of the shogun, you weren't allowed to stand up, so they had to develop techniques starting from the seiza position. Ueshiba, the founder of modern Aikido, was a pupil of Takeda Sokaku, a master in Daito ryu jujitsu.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
The kneeling exercises come from the Japanese feudal court system. Not all, but some courtrooms had very low ceilings. If you were a samurai representing your retainer, it was possible for you to be attacked in court. So you had to defend yourself without standing. So the idori and Hanza ha dachi series of techniques of Daito Ryu AJJ were a part of the curriculum because it was needed training for their occupation. DR AJJ had the benefit of 1400 years of refinement on the battlefields and courts of feudal Japan. Whereas Aikido was founded in the 1930’s and did not have any pressure testing. I had the pleasure of studying Aikido for 15 years and always wanted to study one of the root arts. Then in 93, I was lucky enough to meet a daito ryu master and decided to start over again with that and will continue until I physically can’t anymore. I have a lot of respect for Aikido practitioners, but I can understand why others may see it as being too fluffy.
Did you learned Aikido for it's rich history or for his poor techniques?
Angelogic not sure if it’s a language barrier or if you meant to be insulting with your question. I moved on from Aikido because I was not satisfied. Others are satisfied with it so good for them. If you want to tear it up, it is an easy target if it makes you feel better. I found that I came away with something valuable from every system I’ve studied, even Aikido.
@@vanillaquale its a barrier language. At that time, because now he closed he's Aikido school and began to do MMA, he was trapped in his martial arts. What I mean by that, at this time, he was so convinced that aikido was effective, he refused to admit that Aikido was more of an art side than of martial side. And you can clearly understand when you see he's numerous video that he was trying to say excuses to protect he's own aikido mind set. I can understand what he was going trough, at that time, because in my own martial arts experience, I had to take my ego aside in order to be open minded in my research of combat effectiveness.
I'm impressed by the respect they show and the constructive observations they make. Very interesting video.
Alex F agreed! “It’s very...uhhhhhh.....beautiful...” lol
Their observations are flawed, They incorrectly assume the Aikido techniques which tells me MAJ should never have been given a black belt. MAJ does not understand AI. The need for force is not MARTIAL...
@@knowledgeishalfthebattle Well ro me Rokas just realised he has not found what he's looking for in Aikido.
From my understanding, Aikido is not about fighting. They are observing Aikido from a one on one bare handed kind of duel fighting standpoint. To me Aikido embrace much more than just this standpoint fighting. But for the kind of effectiveness Rokas is looking for, BJJ and MMA are better. Though I don't believe they're the only answers.
@@Jenjak Inability of anyone to become a real master in any martial art is not a problem of this martial art. Should he go for something simpler? Ofc, i would advice him to buy a pepper spray or/and taser? He is asking a guy that have only 11 years of experience in only BJJ about Aikido? HAHA I saw on my own eyes Aikido masters with 20-25 years of experience that was scared to attack Giampietro Savegnago(in situation 3vs1) and the guy was one of the nicest persons out of over 200 that was there in that building, but his ability to use force used against him against you was just scary and often people was not able to land on the ground safely(because of the speed and perfect technique) and if you are black belt then your attack shuld be real with real good amount of force(or your Aikido training gonna end up like the main hero of this video). Plenty of people all over the world landed in hospital after they fcked up this "cooperation" part when they trying to save own health and doing all that things(ukemi) that this BJJ guy never did in his whole life... When Jacek Wysocki came to our dojo he showed his youngest black belt that came with him and told us how the guy lost all his front teths and after that the young guy told us that he spited out his teeths and said "I am sory" to Wysocki, because it was his fault he was not paying proper attention as he should and because of jis fault he lost his teeths(he was 18 - 19 years old). My sensei also told us how during practice as a young black belt with older black belt he was releasing grip in the middle of technique just to prepare for safe landing. After he did that few time the other guy just used that "free hand" and landed his thumb in my sensei eye(and he got huge black eye and he also was aware whose faul that was)... can you do that in MMA? Ofc no! Buy that is completly real in a street fight. Aikido is not a sport so there is no jury or need to put "martial art" in the name of the style to make it "martial art" when in reality it is only a sport! btw. i would like to point how hard is to find BJJ or MMA masters with 20-25 years of experience... most of the time after that period of time they got so many contusions that they are not able to train... so yea blame Aikido and Ueshiba that was fully aware of that and one of best things of Aikido is that with proper sensei you can have fun with it to the end of your life when others are have to limp and tell stories how agile they was when they was 15-20 years younger!
@@Bialy_1 I find that these videos have only one purpose - to promote a style and a dojo by bashing others - to me, it shows they have little confidence in their dojo and their skills. Rokas was a poor aikidoka, despite his rank and how long he trained. He wasn't critical about his technique while he was training, and when he finally became critical, he wasn't humble nor patient enough to learn what he needed to actually become a good aikidoka. Regrettably, this is common in Aikido. I don't consider my self a role model, by any means, but I've been training for 14 years now, and I'm only a 1st kyu - I'm critical about my technique and I still find I have a lot to learn in order to become proeficient and open my own dojo (that's my objective since I began practicing it). I need to be patient... Then again, maybe I just suck at Aikido :D
I just wanna say that your willingness to learn new stuff made a huge impact on me. I always had very bad grades in math related stuff and, inpired by you, took the steps to end my prejudice and start really learning it. Thank you for this. You are awesome.
Cheers from Brazil and sucess on your journey.
Wow! Thank you so much for sharing this! It means a lot for me to hear that my videos have influence beyond martial arts.
Never stop learning my friend
To be honest, I have questions about just how functional BJJ is in a self-defense scenario. Having attended the Gracie Combatitives Programme and was specifically told by the instructor that you purposely take the fight to the ground (i.e. in a street fight). Without considering whether the attacker may well have friends ready to give you a good kicking. Or considering things such as environment awareness and pre-emption. Or taking into account that the attacker may well gouge eyes, grab your nuts, or pull hair etc and of course grappling and rolling around on the ground is energy consuming. There was no instruction that you need to get back on your feet as quickly as possible if the fight did go to ground. There are times when BJJ skills may be useful in self-defense but it would depend upon the context.
I saw a documentary about a Cook on a warship that single handily took out a small army of terrorists using Aikido. Looked legit to me. Perhaps they should review that.
All I remember about that documentary is the cake.
He did the same thing on a train. 2 times is no coincidence. It's gotta be legit.
@@alejandroallen1949 two *lies are no coincidence. its gotta be bullshit
I see what you did there....
Nice "Under Siege" reference...
@@agahnim0196 if thats at me ive never actually watched under siege
Living in Japan, I can say that it is absolutely true that people sit in seiza as a form of politeness, and it looks like the kneeling stuff are an artifact from Japanese tradition. However, I'd argue that bjj also has artifacts from traditional Japanese culture, most notably the gi, which is essentially a sturdy stand-in for garments of the time. Many gi attacks and grips don't work in modern clothing.
If I wasn’t already subscribed, this video would’ve gotten you another subscriber. I like how observant and thoughtful you are. However, the clincher is how you find reasonable, experienced people to supplement your honest evaluation. Great video!
Serious props to Martial Arts Journey. Few people can adapt to new information and change course in such a major part of their lives like he does. Serious respect man.
Reach out to joe rogan and see if he will have you on his podcast. You deserve a lot of respect for what your doing and anything to do with revealing whats true that is how you really develop your martial arts
Sam J that’s a great idea. That would make a brilliant conversation. How this guy has handled his cognitive dissonance is amazing and demands a lot of respect.
No offense - but Joe Rogan hates podcast guest suggestions.... He's dead against it
@@zakhriskin1602 Just send him this video, he will figure it out on his own
Sam J I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying that, nobody will learn anything from that podcast, it will be Joe repeating everything he’s said a thousand times, “aikido doesn’t work, Jiujitsu and Muay Thai and more practical martial arts do”, this guy in the video is basically a white belt in terms of overall martial arts, they would have nothing to talk about, Joe would be explaining “ya that won’t work, and ya that won’t work” and how to apply a basic guillotine, you can’t make a 3 hour podcast episode of one guy just schooling the other guy and the other guy just listening and asking questions.
The much more effective formula is what Joe is already doing, have PROFESSIONAL fighters on and discuss with them, not have a beginner on and talk about phony aikido techniques.
@@ShiddyShad808but your basing that on lots of assumptions. He already dose have fighters on his podcast i dont see why having different podcasts on is appropriate. I was speaking from the idea that there may be some recognition in the aikido world if they both have a conversation on how he came to admit the martial art he ones believed works in self defense dose not.
Having trained both in BJJ and Aikido, as well as being a professional MMA fighter for many years I am not surprised that most people over look the actual effectiveness of Aikido. Yes, there is a degree of cooperation between Nage and Uke, in training. What art doesn't cooperate while training and learning ? I rarely comment on Aikido videos, especially when people of other arts are doing them (yes I know one of them is an Aikidoist) I say everyone keep underestimating Aikido and for a large part of the Aikido world I agree, not likely to work on the street. But on occasion you find someone who has developed their Aikido for the street. I myself think that many martial art styles breed poor or ill prepared students for the possibility of actual combat as well as creating rude and over confident students. I look less at the art and more at the person using it. I am guilty of grouping people in styles as well, there are many styles I just don't like, yet I am sure that a well trained person, even in an art I don't care for, can be very effective using it, even if I am not. I know of a few arts that believe there droppings don't stink, sort of speaking. Secret : once you spend a bit of time breaking down those arts as well the holes open too. No one art, no matter what anyone thinks, is the beat all / ultimate art for everyone. I like my idea on the topic ... I'm eclectic and gather from many to create what works best for me. Kali for my weapons and hand fighting ranges I use Aikido for my locks and standing grappling and i use Bjj for my ground grappling. combined I have developed an art, for me, that works for me.
Well said🤜🏽
This channel is great because the humility it takes to say, I practiced something I thought was effective for many years, but now we're gonna poke fun at it, IS IMMENSE! Good job to you sir. This mindset is what everyone needs to have. #respect. You're a black belt in my book Sir!
The uke moves to save themselves, and to place themselves into a position to counter if nage makes a mistake. This happens during kaeshi waza, but this video is not a demonstration of kaeshi waza. They fall beautifully because it hurts to fall ugly, which is what happens when an uke doesn’t know how to ukemi. An inexperienced uke makes it much easier to perform the technique, because it much easier to hurt them. Seeing a video and being in the grip of a master are two totally different things. The first looks beautiful and the second you’re seeing bright lights involuntarily flashing in your eyes, praying that your arm doesn’t get dislocated.
Ten years of Aikido and you’re still a beginner. That isn’t true of other martial arts, but it is of Aikido. I’m sorry that your teacher wasn’t able to instill in you a good understanding of the the power of Aikido. Your smirkiness does you no credit, but it’s great that you found something you appreciate better.
well said sir.!
hurts to admit you wasted your time on pretend nonsense that doesnt actually work. wheres your fight videos?
This coming from a guy that can’t even read.
@@WolfgangLizana : Who are you asking? I thought you were asking Thiago.
Watching those clips was actually kind of enlightening. Those moves would be excellent in stage fighting; they're over the top and beautiful without anyone getting hurt. I think that there is value in that.
I live in the Philippines and was a teenager when I learned Aikido, we were instructed to cooperate until the defender understands and executes the technique properly and we were asked to resist or try to land the hit to the defender once the technique is executed and we did. This helped the students learn possible moves for changing situations like wildly charging or whatever attackers.
Both my instructors were Kali and Kickboxing experts so they taught us the value of practicing with real strikes as soon as we learned the technique.
I don't really expect to fight a professional fighter or kickboxer or boxer or MMA fighter because true martial artists don't pick streetfights.
Most of the time, I'm dealing with an upset or intoxicated stranger or friend and I can't beat them up without any consequences so all I can do is evade, redirect, push and run or pin-down when I can.
But Aikido taught me the value of distance and understanding the mechanics of an attack.
If I can't catch a punch or kick, I can stay out of range, parry, pick up a weapon I can throw or strike with or run away.
But that's the main point it's not designed to win tournaments.
If you were to compare aikido to modern weapons, it's probably like a riot shield or a net gun or a fire hose or anything that is considered a Non-Lethal Weapon.
Aikido is not a machine gun like boxing, an assault rifle like Muay Thai or a Garote like BJJ.
Aikido is it's own thing, a tool in a toolbox not something you use and depend on for everything.
Aikido is a philosophical/spiritual form of education personified through physical movement. That is the genius of the founder. It is not intended to be solely self-defense tricks. Concepts are encountered through technique so that they are "realized" by both uke and nage and then extrapolated into life beyond the self-defense scenario. Karatedo is very much the same, where principles are internalized through training that have far reaching applications beyond the utilitarian. In both cases, it is part of "the way" - and that experience is very subtle and often misunderstood by those on the outside or that look only to the direct application. I would not simply say that is "art" but rather a type of sophisticated approach that allows you to progress through life connected in ways beyond the obvious. Yes, there are practical applications, People often say for example that karate would not work as it is traditionally taught yet mae geri, mawashi geri, ushiro geri gyuaku tsuki, kizami tsuki etc. have all been the finishing technique in many mma bouts - and that is what is often confusing,
because there is an overlap. But beyond the finishing technique there is life and the act of living it.
Love the concept
But I would have had the Aikido demos full screen w commentators in inset to better see the techniques being critiqued
I would like to see you add a senior Aikido instructor to your videos on Aikido, someone like Christian Tissier or maybe Guillaume Erard who has done a series of fantastic interviews with some of the greatest teachers (checkout his youtube channel!)
I am not surprised by any of your doubts, i think looking for answers with those who committed their whole life to this art would be interesting.
I've wrestled thru high school, have a 1st dan in Taekwondo, and fancied my self a street fighter. On my first class I was man handled like in the video, even after refusing to first learn how to correctly fall, as I also incorrectly thought it wouldn't work if i didn't know what was coming. It works if and only if one does not anticipate the out come or results, as a wrestler I could maintain balance, but in the striking drills if one punched with out anticipation of being thrown ie a meat head in a bar... it works just as advertised. I felt like a baby deer learning to walk.
Presentation of kneeling attacks is what I was taught in aikido. Cooperative really sums up aiki training
16:20 - Great timing syncing the clapping with the fall
In my humble opinion, Aikido founder Morihei Ueshiba, studied many fighting arts when he was young and also fought in wars as a combatant. Aikido as it is handed down now is his style at old age and having become very religious and anti-violence. While it is extremely valuable by itself, Aikido is more of a Master Class, instead of a complete education in the martial arts, you still need primary school, secondary school, university etc., all stages of training that Eushiba himself had completed but which many current Aikido practitioners lack. Just my 2 cents.
so right
True those masters of old incorporated other styles in their martial arts and back then it was to seriously hurt people as it was a matter of life and death.
If he was ever a soldier, Aikido had nothing to do with it.
Most soldiers can't defeat a BJJ blue belt in H2H
Charles Martel you cannot be serious! These guys are not going to fight you in war! It is not a sports match! They will kill you in war and their is no consequences for holding back in war. Think about it!
@@DarekBirton Maybe with a rifle, of course, I have one too.
If the average grunt is dumb enough to try to kill me with his bare hands, I'd put him to death.
Soldiers don't have any special training in H2H, they come to civilian MMA schools if they want to get good and I've trained with some soldiers there.
They aren't any better than anyone else unless they're SF, those guys are in really great shape.
Soo... aikido is the more elegant/genteel version of WWE wrestling?
WAE - World Aikido Entertainment would be interesting innit :D
I know u did not just spell gentle genteel cmon man ( or girl) 🤦🏾♂️
Unless English is not your first language which should be your only excuse 😂
Pro tip; youre already on the internet, use it to double check yourself before correcting others lol
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genteel
@@primitivojdavis Epic correction fail dude! I spelled it as intended: "GENTEEL" as in polite. WWE is well known to be brash and over the top. My thoughts on aikido based on this video is that it is the opposite of WWE in terms of presentation (brash vs polite), but similar in that it is kind of fake because the "fighters" are cooperating.
And no, English is my second language. Also, "Unless English is not your first language which should be your only excuse" you should check yourself first. Don't embarrass yourself man.
confusecian oooof 😂 my mistake with both things lol 😆 I hope u will accept my humble apologies
Thank you very much for great videos!
Very astute and spot-on comments by the Judoka. As a former Aikido student myself, I couldnt put it more suscinctly ... the style suffers from a practicality standpoint because many of the moves are compromised to varying degrees by reliance on the feeder cooperating with the defender, and the defender knowing and relying on same ... they're both just dancing a set of pre-arranged moves. Replace the cooperation with opposition and most moves have a vastly lower success rate, esp with an attacker that knows what to expect from the defender.
Thank you for vids like this, and a truer commitment to honesy self discovery than most. Many of us start there, but rapidly tend to go astray over time. Familiarity breeds self deluding assumptions.
So, here's what I see as the challenge. Aikido techniques come from jujutsu, which in turn comes from historic japanese warfare. I think the mistake that is constantly made is to judge the practicality of historic Japanese jujutsu techniques (Aikido) in the modern environment of a bjj tournament. I'd love to see some bjj guys put on historic japanese armour, put a couple of swords in their belt and then try to triangle each other.
That's like saying that you'd like to see someone who's crack shot with modern rifle to shoot with a musket. Different context requires different skills, like armored wrestling is more about takedowns and getting space to find a weapon, not about submissions. Going for a choke on an armored opponent is just stupid and would prove or demonstrate nothing.
@@WrathOfPhropet Yes... that's exactly my point.
Neverm0re
I think that was the point.
Granted, for all the talk of how great BJJ, I’ve found that while it’s great at conditioning your body and a great one on one martial art, BJJ has been equally ineffective in various scenarios.
Try pinning a BJJ fighter against a seasoned boxer.
Try pinning a BJJ fighter with military gear against a seasoned Marine.
I mean, there’s much to be said about the effective of martial arts, but if hear “this is much better than that” often times there’s misconceptions.
Both jujutsu and aikido come out of Daito Ryu Aiki-ju-jutsu (which came out of Takeda Ryu Aiki-no-jutsu). Jujutsu lost the aiki while aikido lost the jutsu.
They would still be able to. The issue is I'd like to see an aikido guy use aikido effectively in a practical way.
I am not even into martial arts and I enjoy your channel
Thank you very much! It means a lot for me to hear that ;)
Always had this statement in the dojo I trained, "Blending and cooperation". It was why, in the senior class, we then started pulling techniques apart by being resistant as hell. We always found issues with strict traditional application. The BJJ guys are great. They point out practical issues, discuss evolution of techniques and the need for active resistance to truly test application. This is what Aikido needs, a big shake up......... or an acceptance ( publicly) of the nature of the art. That being it is not directly practical for self defence.
In my opinion, and as you have mentioned in your video, Aikido can't be separated from its cultural and historical roots.
Therefore, if you remember properly, Aikido was studied only with the recommendation given from specialized senseis where their students had previously spent years training and fighting.
Thus, we could take for granted that black belts in other martial arts, such as karate and judo (who used to be historically full-contact sports), where studying Aikido in order to purify their moves and improve their understanding of bushido.
Aikido is pretty much a conceptual art martial. It gives you a great sense of balance, a great coordination and a very good movement vocabulary. However, as these guys mentioned in the video, fighting is not part of Aikido DNA.
Thus, if you don't fight, don't expect yourself to become a fighter. You would be acting under a false premise.
However, you are too critical toward Aikido in my opinion. Of course, if your plan was to learn how to fight, well, you had to pick a discipline where you actively fight.
But Aikido is not useless in itself. If you think about it, if you can take something extremely complicated and make it look good and easy, it means that you have a perfect mastery of the movement.
And notwithstanding the martial art that you are studying (BJJ, Hapkido, Boxing, Wing Chun, Kendo, Tai Chi), mastering something should never be overlooked and dismissed.
Because mastering something is a process per se. If you successfully "learned how to learn", then there is pretty much nothing that could stop you re-learning something new.
In conclusion, I pity the ones who never did anything out of their lives.
Peace and universal love
‘Conceptual martial art’= fantasy.
Looks like a good hobby to practice meditation and self control, I see this as a spiritual martial art
In that case is yoga considered a martial art? Not a dig just a philosophical question what stage do you remove the word martial?
@@Oldhandlewasabitcringe actually it is
Octo pus tai chi also a martial art...
@@Oldhandlewasabitcringe Because aikido have martial roots - Yoga have not. Aikido is budo not Bujutsu. You all want to se technique and aplication in real sitation it is jutsu - technique. Do - way - is about self improvment by practising martial activities not fighting.
an "art" perhaps, but not a martial art
Is there any chance of Rokas having a podcast with Joe Rogan? that would be an amazing conversation I think
I'd love that to happen one day :) He is not that far from where I am right now too. But I guess it takes Joe Rogan to get interested in my work first though ;)
@@MartialArtsJourney still trying to get roy dean an interview with rogan. he's got us petitioning rogan for about 6 months.
@@MartialArtsJourney How's it going Rokas. You're in California right now? Why not contact Sensei Jaime Calderon for an interview? From what I understand, he trained in Tenshin Aikido under Steven Seagal, and he's located in Northern California.
tenshinwarrior.com/
instagram.com/thetenshinwarrior/
Best regards!
I think Joe Rogan is too rude of an a- hole to pay attention to in this case
@@alfonsonajera2439 , Rogan has many people on and had similar topics as this video.
very respectful critiques, no disrespect given and well made points.
I have just learnt a new meaning for what a "feeder" is :)
This was great, can you have people breakdown other martial arts, like Sanuces Ryu?
What I have learnt in my time in martial arts is never to judge anything by video or by simply watching. Go be taught by these guys, find out the deeper principles and concepts...train long enough to understand them, then pass comment.
Not many ppl have enough level intelligence like yours
I completely agree with you. Its the right attitude to have in martial arts. Don't judge it until you have tried it.
It's so easy to criticise...but you tend to look like the silly one yourself. If Rokas is going to spend his time behaving like this, then it's going to do nobody any favours.
I have honestly been through this journey myself - I had my first experience of martial arts via a little JuJutsu taught to my by my Judo instructor at the age of 15. I then found a local JuJutsu club and spent a year being taught what I thought then was JuJutsu...as in I didn't even realise there was more than one style or even what the differences were between them all.
Roll on 3 years and I joined my University JuJutsu club - a very very large UK 'brand' of JuJutsu which frequents many Universities...it moved my understanding on a long way, bringing in what I was then thinking was the best, it was so much more 'real' to me than what came before...
Move on another 5 years and I was now being taught by a branch-off from my University style which addressed many of the issues I had found with my past experiences...though still left me with questions, thoughts, bits which either didn't quite seem right or were expected but never explained or rationalised...still excellent as far as 'modern' UK JuJutsu goes though...unfortunately they have closed up now...
Another few years on, after another gap...marriage, jobs in the way, kids...
I needed to get back into JuJutsu again, and discovered a local club that had actually been around for many years, I just didn't know about it.
Absolutely honestly, at first sight, at first try, it felt and looked weird...in truth it looked fake, just mumbo jumbo about learning the subtleties first, the basic movements, developing these as you get better. As I had nothing 'better' to train, I kept at it...
It took my at least 6 months to start to understand it properly, or at least get close to...I'm now around 8 years in and have never looked back. The base principles or timing, structure break, the concept of redirecting mass, controlling the weapons (fists, feet, whatever), then moved into application and reality.
If you were to look at anything we would demonstrate like the Aikido shown in this video...it would look just as choreographed, just as 'compliant'...but it's a demo...unless you are fully aware of the style and their principles, concepts etc., you cannot and will likely never ever see what they are really showing. You will see a dance, you will not see anything else...
Rokas, you have been burnt by Aikido through your own experience, your own instructor...I was burnt myself, I took the word of people for a long time before I started to question, to wonder...
Indirectly, I've gone back to the roots of JuJutsu, training in a true Koryu style lead by an 85yr old Japanese head of style, who we now have to go visit in person in Japan as he is no longer travelling. There is nothing 'new', no 'modern' martial art is teaching things that work better than the stuff developed basically for killing people, for the battlefield...for people wearing armour, wielding weapons...my own instructor is someone I am lucky to have. Someone who knows the core stuff like its nothing, but also has the life experience and understanding of the applications of these 'dances' and gets us to prove it works, he proves it works...
Rather than diss Aikido, go back to its roots...go find the oldest styles that exist out there, read Angry White Pyjamas if you haven't already...go train in their style (which I think is Tomiki)...unless you go out there and actually research your own roots, I'm not sure you are in any position to laugh and joke about anyone.
I'm sure some Aikido experts could happily watch these three in some BJJ techniques and critique how useless they would be to avoid grappling...which in my opinion, for 'self defence', avoiding grappling and going to the ground is absolutely imperative. I disagree on critiquing from video though, unless it is critiquing others of your own style so you hopefully know exactly what to look for and what should or could be done to make that technique better. You simply cannot know or understand the principles being worked to, and if you are obsessed that a specific thing is important (e.g. that something needs to work in grappling or it's crap) yet the thing you are critiquing is outright trying to avoid grappling, you're kind of banging your head against your own wall.
One comment on the recent Tomiki Aikido review video talks about the apparent efffectiveness of a single shoulder/arm lock or pin to keep someone on their face and front (again, a core principle is likely to be the idea of getting somene pinned on their face/front)...I have no idea of the principles being applied for that in the video, I simply don't know Aikido enough. However I know we have a similar pin position and if you get all the bits in, the person on the ground most definitely cannot get up...and whilst if you can apply pain it works even better, pain compliance is not a neccessity nor should it ever be. Break structure/kuzushi as priority, control the weapons (be them fists or blade etc.), fix a base, pain compliance is secondary...and let's not forget, most or likely all 'locks' are really breaks that are not fully applied...the shoulder pin on the Tomiki video I suspect if simply applied fully will dislocate the shoulder and/or break the arm...but you can't exactly demonstrate that more than once...even throws as most JuJutsu styles perceive them are designed to heavily injure the attacker - if they can't breakfall (though Ukemi doesn't translate as breakfall....) and you throw them to injure, they are not going to get up...
@@GlitchyRijndael Perhaps I misuse terminology...I suspect, but someone with more awareness can maybe confirm, that Aikido has a principle surrounding avoidance of being grabbed...that's not in my mind the same as grappling. Someone grabbing your clothing to land in a punch, or to grab your body to take you down from behind, the side, the front....
We have techniques involving those things, aiming to bring in reactions that stop that grab, to prevent a grip, to connect with the attacker and redirect mass, break structure...
But to try and train to fight an expert in another martial art is getting into Bruce Lee territory...the significant average attacker may be skilled in street fighting but it is not likely they are a martial artist... it's more likely they are drunk and you knocked over their drink.
Trying to put one martial art against another is not really the way to assess effectiveness for self defense...
I am in no way saying Aikido is a special flower, but what I am still saying is that judging effectiveness of something from a video, without actual knowledge of that style and its principles is utterly pointless.
I have to say the talk of techniques working for certain people in certain times hit home for me based on my experience with traditional martial arts training where they taught for 'apparently' self-defence over traditional art reasons. I basically got taught complicated moves which could work but only after you had them caught by surprise or in a responsive state due to other strikes.
Great 👍🏼 analysis - I’m a GJJ blue belt, but also have a few black belts & a red belt in traditional styles (not Aikido). It’s all choreographed until the throw, wrist lock, arm bar, etc. The moves are legit, just hard to pull off against full resistance. However, I’ve gotten wrist locks & such rolling live. Like we start on knees to avoid injury, they go along with the technique to avoid injuries. But as you say, you need resistance to learn what will & will not work on the streets...
Gozo Shioda was absolutely legit. For those that do not know, he cross trained regularly with Mas Oyama and the legendary Kimura.
The same Kimura that crushed Helio Gracie. Kimura himself had talked about firsthand detail of O Sensei's real combat prowess as well.
Gozo shioda himself talked about how he got into Aikido... he thought he could take Morihei Ueshiba down, but he got humbled real quick within a few mins. He trained full time with Morihei after that.
So unless Kimura is a liar and a fraud... which we all know he's not... Gozo Shioda is legit.
Gozo Shioda was a 3rd dan judoka & an experienced kendoka before ever starting to train Aikido. O Sensei was also a master of several hard forms of jujitsu before creating Aikido and originally would not take on anyone who was not already well seasoned in hard martial arts.
The modern form of aikido is impractical and is thought impractically. The basic problem with Aikido these days is it is being thought to people who have not already learned the hard stuff.
@@aikighost exactly! Aikido was originally taught to experienced fighters with multiple styles on their resume already. Abbe Sensei comes to mind as well... a fantastic Judoka, as well as a top level Aikido expert. Also, he's one of the few people to ever defeat Kimura.
It's not really interesting to discuss exaggregated wive's tales of old dead masters. Can you name some living practicioners that are good instead?
@@kullenberg lol, what? Wive's tales? Kimura openly documented this, and he's not some "ancient relic"... he was alive until the 1990's. He was a mixed martial artist before MMA was ever officially even named. He was well versed in Karate, Boxing, Catch Wrestling, and Aikido on top of his already stellar Judo background.
@@AztecUnshaven cool, my mistake then.
G R E A T video!!!!
I admire their humble approach while criticizing what they were watching. Such a martial artist attitude, very... Aikido (?) 😵
For some time now I have this idea in my mind - and this won't be the first time someone says this by no means, but I tend to be careful with such affirmations - but after watching the video and hearing their insights (and Doshu's speech), I feel safe saying that martial efficiency is not the purpose of Aikido. Maybe even for O'Sensei... but definitely not for the post war Aikido. And, if Aikido had martial efficiency as a core concept in some point of it's history, it some how got lost together with it's functionality...
So it's just art.
@@NoNonsenseNumbskull ... hence, it can also be a path. Which is fine, as long we can be honest about it.
Agree.
@@wagutoxD The problem is aikido is not a bunch of moves, like in most martial arts. It is more like a bunch of concepts. Beginners learn the "moves" so in some point they can seek the concepts behind it. Some practioners stay in the first stage and can only see the moves..... But ultimately the concepts fit any martial art and could be applied to any practice.
What you see in the video is demonstration..... Not training. Training with the doshu can be very intense.....
@@Blinducho have been there. I bet it can be pretty aerobic, no doubt about it.
The core problem is the basic concept of Aikido training. The idea I was always exposed - and what a great number of O'Sensei's uchideshi passed on - is the concept of harmony. Even attacking in Aikido is harmonious, it can be fast and powerful, but is harmonious since it is preconceived or arranged. Ppl argue about randori or ju waza, but the relation between uke and nage are always based in harmony.
Now, in a more realistic scenario, you gotta harmonize with conflict/resistance, which blows away the practicality/functionality of any skill the Aikidoka may have. Have you undergone some less orthodox kind of training?
I understand the idea of principles and concepts behind the techniques and appreciate them. I believe that Aikido bokken and jo movements can give some nice pointers to the dynamics of combat, like space, openings and timing, as long as it is well applied/studied. But still, it goes so far. The next step would be sparring, but that sounds like a bad word in the world of Aikido. It may be seen as to ego based; may go against the philosophy of cooperation, so deep in Aikido. Could you share your thoughts about that?
Maybe my experience lacks proper training and that's exactly what made me question my own path in Aikido. I would be really glad if anyone could show me dojo Aikido being applied in a real combat scenario with consistency, something you can recognize as Aikido from top to bottom, not a couple of techniques lost amongst chaos.
Aikido as a martial practice seems to deny conflict, what causes it to not be martial at all.
Pls, I mean no offense. If you could share your experience I would really appreciate it.
It is good to finally see objectivity and observation instead of free bashing. Very mature from everybody.
Really interesting video thanks
After reading the comments all I can say is; So much for peace, love , and harmony.
12:00 this guy is just quoting the people who come to this channel to trash Rokas.
"If he did *my* style of aikido it would have worked!"
But, if you listen to Rokas's reasonings behind Aikido's shortcomings, "lack of pressure testing, compliant partners, doesn't resemble what you'd see in a real fight" etc etc etc
Not all styles of Aikido have these defects. Shodokan does incorporate sparring, Kokikai places importance on resisting the techniques during regular practice, some Aikido styles have many Judo throws and sacrifice throws that are closer to what you would see in MMA, so on and so forth.
Kevin Phillips yes there are definitely elements of certain types of aikido that may be useful, no one can deny that.
However, as they say, “even a broken watch is right twice a day.”
I think Rokas’ criticism of aikido is ok but is limited to the training methodology. The true criticism of aikido lies in the fundamental principles of the art and the applied concepts.
Just in terms of body mechanics, in terms of how people actually act under pressure, aikido is an incredibly low per centage martial art.
Also tomiki aikido for me is the last nail in the coffin as to whether or not aikido can be practically applied. The answer is “no,” during application it looks like terrible, *terrible* judo. Don’t you feel like that any time you watch a tomiki match on TH-cam? That they’d be eaten alive by any competent judo or jujitsu player?
@@jaymiddleton1782 Don't you think if you put together all the good pieces from the various substyles of Aikido (since Aikikai is the "main style") you'd be left with something that had sparring, that had resistance during regular practice, and that had Judo throws as a part of the regular practice (even including sparring)?
The parts are all there. Why isn't Rokas trying to put these parts together?
My style has almost a contempt for Aikikai Aikido... we see it as watered down and willfully unrealistic... I've trained Aikido for 9 years and cross trained BJJ alongside for 3 and I'm still not an Aikido black belt yet. I think Aikido is harder than BJJ is. In my experience, the training really is harder. Not necessarily more grueling but both arts contain sophisticated grappling and since my partners don't just "throw themselves"... the level of correctness required in Aikido refines my understanding of grappling even more than BJJ does.
I agree with these gentlemen's assessment of the aikido demos in this clip. In both situations, the uke ("feeder") is anticipating the demonstrator's technique and is flowing with it, rather than affected by it. These are demos for "public consumption," and as such the participants are putting on a show.
However, there is a huge difference between the two demonstrators and the reasons why their uke are being complicit or cooperative. In the first demonstrator's situation, his uke truly are timing their ukemi (taking of the throws) to coincide with their teacher's movements, and it is like a dance in their cooperative synchrony. But in the case of the second demonstrator, Gozo Shioda, he actually has a lot of power in his techniques, and his demo partners are "tanking" largely to avoid receiving the full brunt of his power and getting hurt.
The underlying reason for these differences is in the body methods of the demonstrators themselves.
Moriteru Ueshiba's aikido relies on centripedal force and "psychological leading" of his partners. In essence, in a "real life" application of this form of aikido, the practitioner causes his opponent to over-extend and overreach himself so that he takes himself off balance, making it easy for the practitioner to exploit it. The attacker basically drops himself into a hole.
In Shioda's form of aikido (which is really not aikido, but its predecessor, Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu), he is using a different methodology that takes the opponent's center of gravity or balance (doesn't trick him into overextending and losing his balance; but actually TAKING his structure). This is kuzushi. Unfortunately, because Shioda's demo partners have to "tank" to avoid injuiry, it makes his work look fake. It's not. To give you a better idea of what pre-WWII aikido (i.e. Daito Ryu) looks like, more realistically, here is an old film from Sen. Robert Kennedy's 1962 visit to Japan. Gozo Shioda was brought in to do a demo of his art for Kennedy and his wife. Sen. Kennedy' was skeptical of what Shioda was doing, and wanted to have one of his burly bodyguards feel Shioda for himself. Shioda effortlessly pinned the man, who was much larger, heavier and stronger than Shioda. It's just a brief demonstration, but it's more realistic because the "opponent" is resisting and non-cooperative. if the link doesn't come up live on this page, you can cut and paste it into your browser window to view it. Enjoy!
th-cam.com/video/4KBbf-xAM38/w-d-xo.html
props to you for lack of a better word, seeing the "inadequacies" of your particular discipline. It takes a big man to say i need to further myself in something else.
I myself have realized TKD can only get one so far. I mite be looking at BJJ myself.
Really enjoying following your journey, great stuff! And, makes me think I should probably be doing something document mine :) -- Jason Wright, W2W Montana Series 1 Competitor, SBG!!
Hey W2W SBG brother! Thanks :)
Rokas, I’ve really enjoyed your videos but I think in your zeal to prove your points (many of which I find valid) that you’ve lost your objectivity. I’m not an Akidoka, although I trained in it for several years decades ago, moving on from it for some of the same reasons you cite. But while I find the training method unrealistic and the techniques idealized, I’ve also discovered many parallel concepts and techniques in other arts, such as Judo, Arnis/Kali, Systema, Karate, Krav Maga, even Boxing and Muay Thai clinch work. Since all martial arts are dealing with the same human body, it shouldn’t be surprising that they share fundamental principles, in this case foot work and redirection, among other elements.
So, while I also find the demonstration videos idealized, I don’t see the principals or even the techniques performed as invalid. An attacker isn’t going to always lunge at an opponent fully committed, the most frequent attack in Akido, but its certainly within the realm of possibility. A palm strike to the face that interrupts an attackers momentum can work, and is a technique used in many other art forms. Ducking to the ground as someone rushes you would require considerable skill to execute, but I see American Football players overshoot tackles all the time. Evasive footwork, pivoting or sidestepping that allows one to use an attackers momentum against them is common to other art forms too.
I hope you will be as skeptical of BJJ as you are now of Akido. BJJ is a great art, and in many ways more practical than Akido, but it also has limitations. Every art does. Even a master BJJ practitioner like Eddie Bravo stated that striking arts are more practical in a street fight, which is simply a concession that while BJJ has tools that are valuable for self defense its not a perfect solution. Don’t let your newfound love of BJJ (again, an excellent martial art) blind you to its weaknesses.
What has made your channel interesting is your open mindedness, positivity and willingness to question. But if you are just trading your obsession with one martial for another, its simply not going to be as compelling. I do look forward to your continued journey with BJJ, but I hope you allow yourself to look beyond it.
Rokas is a disappointing character. For him, commitment to the new religion means trashing the old. For me, martial arts is not a religion. He has lost his objectivity - you are right - and all of the things that once made him interesting to become a third-rate "Me, too!" BJJ cage fighter a decade too late. I am not surprised his former friends have cut ties, because I would, too.
@Moon Sun The f*ck are you talking about?
@@ikemreacts Yes, but he is finally on the path to competently defend himself, which is all he ever wanted. He has given Aikido a chance, it is you who lacks objectivity.
No, he will probably not be a UFC champ or be able to defeat pro MMA fighters but he would kick any Aikido master's ass up and down the block.
Nigel Cox-Hagan
but even Eddie Bravo has changed and added Combat JJ which allows strikes that's how you evolve.
@@ikemreacts It's not that Aikido sucks compared to BJJ, it's that Aikido sucks compared to everything else. Hell, even basketball will make you a better fighter than Aikido.
i have recently discovered your youtube channel. I like them and you very much.
I can not wait to see what you will say about Saito Sensei.
What few if any really talk about in traditional martial arts not Brazilian Ju-Jitsu (BJJ) is how the Traditional Art assumes is attacking in from the Same form of art; a straight arm punch, overhead knife attack; including various chops, and then the assorted traditional kicks - these work in competition against the same martial art - and, all the while by staying up on your feet to score points or punch, chop, or kick someone down. However, even I knew back in the 80s that in order for me to be a better (real) martial artist, I would need to learn the basic of at least three disciplines; Karate (Shotokan, Kempo, Tae kwon do, etc, and Aikido, Jujitsu, or Aikijujutsu, and then Judo, and or, any three combination of martial arts that dealt with punching (strikes), blocking, kicking, and grappling, in a multi-discipline martial arts form to gain an advantage of any average adversary and attacker, or more importantly, attackers...
...similar to, but not exactly, like the Multiple Discipline form that Stephen Hayes taught and for dealing with 'Multiple Attackers' in the form of Togakure-ryū Ninjutsu... I still stand by this today.
Another thing that I don't see from the few BJJ fighters I watched and don't talk about is their fighting style dealing with, Multiple Attackers. Now that BJJ is so well appreciated as a very dominant one-on-one form of fighting and today's go-to style of martial art, it still only teaches single fighter techniques of 'ground fighting.' Even the best BJJ is going to find it difficult to defend him or herself against a multi-person or mob attack, even on the ground. However, in a one-on-one situation, the BJJ form of MA is still the most effective discipline today for real street fighting. However, what I would like to see is first, the teaching of Respect for Martial Arts in general - all of them; regardless of discipline.. and, why it is important to learn Traditional Martial Arts and Technique through a tradition of discipline - it is an art that students develop a sense of respect for tradition that helps the art to be appreciated and preserved; even today.
However, I do encourage others who wish to learn how to learn to 'street fight' is to learn Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as a basis for today's real-world fighting... but this is to say, you will be either fighting professionally or just happen to be a person who is prone to be placed in positions of attack or violence; again, I encourage the art of avoidance. But if I were to suggest that you will never get into a real street fight with multiple attackers, you may want to also train for that reality too; it is likely that someone will be put in this position and avoidance will be no option, and some technique in BJJ will help. But, please keep in mind; BJJ works well for just you and one opponent, but in life, it is often one against one other and backed up by his brah's in a street fight - with sucker punches - because in the real world Street Punk's & Brahs Don't Fight Fair.
I would first rather encourage children to learn a Traditional form of Martial Arts in order to learn about self-respect and self-discipline of the importance of avoiding a fight... to brush of bruised egos and to just walk away -- to walk away from any fight before it starts is a good fight - to learn about 'conflict resolution' is a very important discipline to teach and for students to learn; teach about personal character building and about developing a sense of responsibility around personal respect. It is important to learn about self-defense, but avoiding an unnecessary fight is a form of self-defense. Personal Egos often get into the way of good judgment and self-control, and sadly this is missing in today's world - too much pent up hostility and too bruised egos looking to fight over the most trivial of matters.
Children need to learn to first respect one another and to learn to resolve conflict without fighting, especially refrain from the use of a deadly martial art that in the hands of some children; where they lack real emotional discipline called, 'emotional regulation,' from calm and peaceful self-control - failing to comprehend the consequences of their actions that may result in serious and permanent injury, or in some cases, result in someone else's death. Martial Arts is supposed to teach these forms of discipline - to avoid a fight at all cost and to use only the amount of force necessary to end a fight without unnecessary & excessive use of force. BJJ in the hands of the wrong children and teens is a lethal martial art that needs critical care in good judgment in both the teaching and guidance of the student and from the student who has learned these very dangerous and lethal forms of martial arts.
My suggestion is for martial arts instructors to go back and look at any Martial Arts 'Creed' for a reminder and for daily instruction and guidance to the student... and build Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and All other forms, of Martial Arts strictly around these principles.
Must be really hard to put ego aside, humbly accept ignorance and embrace it as a tool get better. Keep on going, don't stop and kudos to you.
I went to a BJJ school and, knowing how to handle my center of gravity, they could not throw me to the ground (nor I to them in that matter) (sparring with rules like not to hit while grappling). The only way they found (starting from grappling) was to hold on to the training clothes with all their strenght and (after struggling for like a minute) sacrifice their position with their full body weight and most of the times I stayed on top of them on a very comfortable position to strike the face or the groin (not mentioning the strong hit they get to their backs, a thing they think twice without tatami). Sorry guys, BJJ is used on MMA because there´s someone watching on you, the rules protect that kind of fighting banning the attacks that counter that way of fighting. In some black belts I found the same troubles that I found on Aikido videos all over the internet and local dojos. People trying to make techniques without hiting or unbalance the opponent. People trying to force a technique when it should be spontaneous and with perfect timing etc.
What is funny is that some of those BJJ guys are pretty good and they separate the dojo/tournament practice of the selfdefence practice (that happens in some aikido dojos as well). They don't claime to do those techniques on a street situation. No martial art works if you don't understand their principles and when to apply them. What you are right is that in most aikido dojos they tell their students that to hit is wrong or do not train on real attacks because they don't even know how to throw one. That's the case of the guy making the video, when he made the sparring session with the mma guy, he has no idea of when or how to hit, he tries to grab the hands of his oponnent and twist them wich is really funny by the way. I can see why the Aikido people is mad when they see this guy trying to represent them, but the truth is that what he is putting on the spotlight it's true in most dojos. I look for good aikido content on self defence and you will agree that it is veeeeeeryyyy hard to find, not because aikido is bad or it doesn't work, but because of the way people it's training it in the last decades. There are no bad martial arts, but bad practitioners, sadly there´re a lot in aikido.
The main thing I took from my brief time practising Akido was the principle of using your attackers momentum against them. Also the wrist locks :-) Both very useful principles in non lethal self defence. It is a very limited martial art though :-)
What I don't get is the assumption that Aikido masters never get challenged. All the time! If I take uke for a shihan, I don't play along beyond the initial attack and I keep looking for ways out, the lowest form of resistance. Every now and then somebody tries something more fancy, and I've yet to see someone succeeding.
I also wonder how long a BJJ master could last in the last scenario with four people rushing at them. Even if you don't believe the falls, the master manages to keep moving and to stay out of the way of four attackers who mean it, something which is very hard in itself. The dynamics of something like this is so different from rolling on the mat, I wouldn't assume that a BJJ person has much understanding of what it's like with a single person coming at them quickly.
I have seen many Aikido videos but I have never seen footage of such an event. If four regular guys would bumrush an Aikido master he would likely be pinned on the floor in seconds.
@Gangstarji I mean the Aikido guy...
By Akidokas in a dojo.
@@kullenberg I'm looking forward to your video of how a BJJ guy would handle four guys rushing at them. I take that you are not willing to concede that the sensei is moving between those guys extremely deftly?
I remember there being more replies than I'm being shown by youtube now. I was wondering what reason you guys had to assume that the four guys are not attacking seriously. Anyway, seeing the "feeder" for the b&w part handle two people may show you that he certainly is very elegant, even if you don't believe the magic in the parts before the final demo :D th-cam.com/video/SyCvr9bcWII/w-d-xo.htmlm17s (from 3:17).
@@frotzecht3461 the guys rushing in at the sensei in aikido are all still being assisting and not really trying anything other than following and waiting their turn to grab the wrist or forearm and nothing else.
Why not let 4 Muay Thai fighters who won't hold back and really want to land shin kicks on his legs,body and head bumrush him at the same time and we'll see how deftly he gets stretchered out of the dojo!
Let's keep in mind that these are public demonstrations. While training it is not necessarily this graceful or cooperative.
THANK YOU! Was going to write the same. Also there are probably a couple aikido dojos who train realistically and with resistance.
Bullshit.I did Aikido as a teenager and again in my mid 20's.It's all co operative,even in randori.
@Gangstarji Tenshin Aikido mainly, which are mostly of Steven Seagal branch. The Randori that Seagal black belts took is pretty intense. Quite a few of them mentioned getting slammed on their heads from it and losing teeth. Larry reynosa, Matsuoka Sensei, Lenny Sly, Calderon Sensei are some instructors from that lineage.
Pre war aikido had people constantly testing it vs Kosen Judo, Sumo, and Karate with real resistance. Thats why the quality standard was way better back then.
@Gangstarji if you live in the US, theres a few spots you could visit to get a firsthand idea...
As far as youtube footage, i believe there might be still some footage of some Seagals randori testing. Might be still on some older videos from sporadic channels here and there. Possibly on Sensei Lenny Sly's older video clips.
@Gangstarji
Same here. I can't find one too.
I liked the commentary - it is indeed beautiful to watch and the feeder indeed has the harder job. It is choreographed fighting. There's nothing wrong with that, unless its marketed as something woo woo that can take down multiple attackers armed with knives. If you gain spiritual fulfillment and enlightenment and fitness from it then great
Interesting and fair & respectful comments from the BJJ people.
Aikido is great for connection and a lot more bedsides.
Some people do martial arts with an emphasis on martial and fighting. I loved doing aikido as it helped every other movement activity I've done and the principles in conversation, stragey and change etc where a tangible experience of connection and flow is so important.
The sensei I studied with emphasised that kneeling was for technique development. Standing up you can adjust to make up for technique using strength etc. Kneeling gives a different perspective. Much like sitting qigong is complementary to standing qigong (though some other differences).
Shioda reputablely went out regularly looking for people to fight to try out techniques.
This is the first part of a two part video. In the second video take a look at one of the demonstrated techniques on the mat and try to make it functional with pressure testing. Check the next part here: th-cam.com/video/bnkwhkQQ7vI/w-d-xo.html
This is an exhibition, not competition. If you want to say that there is no footage available of sparring and stress testing of Akido techniques then that may be enough strength for your argument. But, for example, I can find a demonstration by Fedor Emilianenko where he is running a seminar and fails to slip a combination because his partner did not execute the correct punch for the slip demonstration. This would not be a good video for critiquing effectiveness of the technique Fedor was demonstrating. I don't think it's meaningful for them to critique Aikido based on cooperativeness of students during an exhibition seminar.
Please. BJJ practitioners just need to show up to Aikido dojos and start asking for sparring. Or a "respectful exchange of technique".
@@crotchy7667 aikido competitions don't exist.
@@jaymiddleton1782 please do some research before making false claims
Donn Mac Fhionnghaile are you going to talk about tomiki aikido? I thought that was just terrible, terrible judo...
Judo, Aikido, BJJ...has the same origin in Japanese Jujutsu arts, I believe instead of making videos to criticize their differences and that aikido is not good for sports like MMA and that BBJ is not good for multiple attackers or armed attackers and overemphasize ground grappling... We must focus on the virtues of each fighting style to develop modern tools of survival in this more and more violent world. Sorry people l live in a third world violent country.
Oss !
It's true BJJ does little to nothing to train you to fight multiple people/people with weapons, but neither does Aikido. I have no qualm with training martial arts for artistic, cultural or spiritual purposes. In fact, it's probably healthier to do that than it is to train for fighting. But it is bad to do something like train Aikido, which is so nakedly ill-equipped to prepare you for real fighting, and then boast about how capable a fighter you've become.
Let's be honest here, whatever claims they may have, no style is "functional against multiple attackers". Even less against armed attackers, and even less than that against multiple armed attackers. You may be incredibly strong and skilled and knock two guys out before they can injure you, but that will also require a little bit of luck, and for your opponents to have no idea what they are doing.
Aikido practicionners are not trained nor equipped to face more than 1 attacker. They can barely face 1 attacker. BJJ and judo are both effective in 1 on 1... and you may get lucky and pull something off in a 2 on 1 (again, if you're remarkably skilled and the gods are smiling on you, or if your attackers are clueless). Your mileage may vary. If facing 3 people, you better have good footwear and even better cardio, because you'll be running for a while, no matter how good you are.
Banzai charges did not work out to well for 99.99999% of the Japanese martial art practitioners in WWII. If your opponent has numbers and/or modern weapons, you gonna die.
@@S.Grenier I'm sorry, but I beg to differ.
I used to train Aikido. Had to stop training due college. Was (still am, I guess) a blue belt. Then there's brown and then black.
We do train against 2 or 3 people attacking at the same time. And yeah, it's the "Aikido chop" and so on, but the basis are all there. How to position yourself, how to use your adversaries as "shields" against the others, and so on.
There are loads of Aikido styles, and mine was one closest to the founder's (Takemusu Kai). For what I have seen, there are styles that really don't have that kind of multiple attackers.
Then again, I really never got into any real fight as an adult (got into some, as a small kid). I know I wouldn't try to apply an Aikido technique 100% as we train it, in a real fight, but I know for sure that if the opportunity presents itself, I'd use some of the principles, such as applying force against an elbow. It's the same as the BJJ guys did.
Focus on a principle and use it when it fits
He says that with a newcomer it wouldn't look elegant etc and it is emphasis on the art not the martial which is a fair point to a degree. Speaking personally when I was a newcomer because I didn't know how to cooperate as they call it I had my wrist and elbow broken! There is a reason it is coreographed and cooperative and that is so you don't get hurt the techniques look gentle and ineffective because of that admittedly but you try kotegeashi against a person without explaining to them how to fall or go with it and watch what happens to their arm! Aikido takes directly from Jujitsu and other well proven arts it is what you make of it like any martial art!
Oh come on what kind of dojo treats a "newcomer" that way, in a aikido school somebody locked you up and applied it through to the extent they broke your wrist AND elbow ? Did somebody hit a gong next ,and geishas started fanning? Sounds like an aikido dream
@@lancehobbs8012 yeah as a newcomer I broke my arm because I didn't know how to fall and your assumption that it was the dojo and not another newcomer that joined with me who did it is kinda fucking dumb!
nice. can you do it again with these guys showing them dean and bookman sensei? or any other cross trained aikikai aikidoka? i think doran sensei was a cop when he first started. nadeau might have been too. or some koichi tohei vids ?
Dear sir, Thank you for your thoughts and visions of your journey. I cannot however escape the feeling that you are trying to prove that aikido does not work? Is that really the question? I fully agree with you that anybody who claims that aikido works as a Martial art, should step into the ring and show that it works. Full stop. Aikido people should stop shouting that it does without stepping into reality. But to me (currently a Yon dan) that was never the point. The basics of aikido are stemming from other traditional martial arts. So there must have been a point in time that those techniques worked. The founder specifically focussed on non-radoori practice in order to free the mind. I am not sure whether he actually wanted his techniques to work in combat. And maybe, with his background in other martial arts and his training he could make aikido work. But current training in aikido is not focussed on actual fighting techniques. Most Ukes do not know how to throw a punch or a strike. But training an art like aikido has its own merits, similar to other traditional martial arts, like learning respect and discipline, soupleness, mind conditioning and all those things. Enjoy your practice and your journey. Focus on your own path. And if aikido was not your path for 10 years, I am sure you did learn something valuable during that time. It is not essential if aikido works or not. Leave it to the other people who claim that aikido is effective, to prove that it is. I would love to see a video from you where you show the similarities between BJJ and Aikido and maybe find things that do work, because I do really enjoy your trains of thought. 🙏🏼 Erik
Well put. Congrats on the 4th dan. I'm a fighter, I trained Kyokushin for many many years before moving onto boxing, BJJ, Thai boxing etc. We are taught to always be respectful of other martial arts. The most useful thing we are taught from aikido (and that's about it for what you learn about it in Kyokushin) is the famous aikido side step. The way we do it, you can cut a nice angle and your weight is properly positioned for a nice roundhouse off your back leg etc. That's something I have always found effective in the ring/on the street. Cutting angles is common in any combat form, as straight lines are limiting, but the aikido approach has always worked for me personally.
EDIT: for anyone reading this who thinks "oh is that all aikido is good for?", well, footwork is everything. And from that modified side step, and the way I use it with my body, I've always been able to use that and fire off a brutal lower roundhouse kick from there. It IS effective, if it works for you.
OSU!
The individual techniques are strong, but the sum of the parts is weak
Thank you for this video. I really appreciate your chennel for its balanced and respectful views. I agree that aikido practice is typically focused more on the art than the martial. I think that brings up a great point. Why does each individual study any martial art? For many, it is more about the art. For instance, I have a good friend who served in MARSOC in Iraq and Afghanistan who chose Aikido study as a way of managing his PTSD. He already knows how to fight, and has proven his skills in actual life or death combat. Aikido is the right form for him. On the other hand, my 10 year old daughter needs to learn how to defend herself, so she recently enrolled in BHH after about 5 years of studying To Shin Do. Do I think her time in TSD was a waste? Absolutely not. Her studies helped her learn about her body, gave her confidence, and she learned some discipline. But I do not believe she learned many practical self defense skills. So again, what is the student interested in learning. When have the "what is the best/most effective" martial art, I think we should keep in mind that its not just about fighting.
Trying to remember the phrase he used: "Adversarial setting", or something like that.This is exactly right; it is how BJJ has been able to benefit from students with Judo and Wrestling backgrounds, because students can come in from anywhere, spar with other students and even the teachers on day 1, and the schools can learn from what works without requiring the new student to be absorbed into the culture first. This also does well to keep everyone humble.
Waste of time. The instructors were respectful.
I know right, the face of the Bjj master is like....😒meh hard pass😄
I understand their skepticism at Shioda Sensei's old demos. However, even though they're just demos and his students are not fully resisting, they're not just falling down either. He really was that strong, and yes it does look almost unreal, but he was strong. He was very respected by one of Judo's top competitors too. Here's an interview Shioda Sensei did with Kimura Sensei. www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/aikido-judo-gozo-shioda-masahiko-kimura/
Shioda Sensei was strong, but yes, in a real fight it doesn't look fancy. His demos were for fun and to show a bit of his power, but he personally didn't care for full on competition. They are demos. BJJ demos of their self-defense techniques don't look like anything special either, nor do anyone's demos, because they're just demos.
I love all martial arts, but really in the end it's all for fun. No one looks that great in a real survival situation, regardless of their art.
l really like the videos you ( Martial Arts Journey ) put up. Though you practice Aikido , you do state the negative sides of the art in some ways. Respect that . l practiced Aikido too for short period of time though my back ground is Karate for the last 40 years . l believe they all work ---- on that " particular " circumstances . Then ,it comes to the question of how often that " Circumstances " actually happens in a real fight ?
Interesting take, traditional martial arts are a different breed then combat sports and I like how that is displayed here. I study BJJ(very new) and I study Tae Kwon Doe (very traditional) and both have incredible value if approached practically. There is no hostility really just technique. well said very well said
Take into account that in old school aikido included atemi or striking in the art; it may help to think of Aikido as a striking throwing and pinning art as opposed to a grappling one and many aspects can be used against multiple attacks also, if you look at BJJ self defence techniques they start getting closer to aikido also.
You really think that garbage was better than western boxing?
If so, you need help.
Nearly every modern asian MA with any effectiveness has dumped their native hand techniques for boxing.
Just do boxing and you will defeat any aikido master in a fight.
They want you to buy BJJ & MMA hype
@@charlesmartel988Um no they haven't. Last time I checked, Judo, Pencak Silat, Lethwei and countless other Asian martial arts haven't abandoned their "hand techniques" for boxing. Boxing works well for Boxing gloves. Modern day Boxing is not designed for bare knuckle fighting. Just like a boxer would destroy an Aikido master. A Lethwei fighter (who has only practised Lethwei) would murder a boxer (who has only boxed) in a bare knuckle fight.
I love how the professor in the white gi elegantly dissed aikido loll
Like a bunch of 8th graders commenting on a college senior course.
Exactly
Great content bro
I would like to point out that the predecessor style of Aikido, Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu, developed the style for sword wielding samurai specifically. The style's primary focus is to counter people trying to stop you from reaching the dominant weapon system of the Tokugawa Shogunate, the Daisho pairing("The age of the country at war" comes to an end and spearmanship and archery arent used as much on a day to day basis). That's the reason why it has counters to wrist grabs. When you see the original version of these Aikido techniques you'll see that when the uke reaches for the wrists or wrist, the hands are placed near the hips to mimic the hand position a samurai would probably use, left hand on top of the scabbard. The right hand seems to mirror the left in placement near the hip. I would argue, that Aikido has very little if any combat efficiency. Aikijujustu would suck in unarmed combat but could be of benefit to people having to hold weapon systems(katanas during the Tokugawa period in Japan and pistols, assault rifles, tactical shotguns in our period globally) or use weapons first and unarmed combat last.
I believe that is Moriteru Ueshiba not Kisshomaru
Sorry, you're right :) Let me correct that
I've been out of Aikido for too long :D
Thanks! Hope you’re enjoying your time here in Oregon!
@@michaelerbe8198 what? is he in Portland?
I am a little past Hood River
wow 11:50 escape rear neck choke by just walking forward XD
why didn't i try this at bbj
Because proper walking technique is part of BJJ I guess.
Clarence Baluca it’s still nonesense.
@@clarkb.582 implying you'd pull that shitty wrist lock off while being choked out. Good luck. Average guy is uncon after 5 seconds of a decent choke.
He isn’t using wrist locks and he isn’t walking forwards. It’s hard to see because the video is small but what’s actually happening is that he turns his left hip towards the right. This brings his right hand in front of his centre and allows him to regain the lost structure on that side of the body. Once he has that he turns his hips back using the recovered structure to bring the right hand with it which allows him to turn. The effect of this though is to give the appearance of just walking forward but that is genuinely not what he’s doing.
It’s also not actually a choke. It’s a combination neck hold and wrist grab. The guy grabbing the neck only does so with one hand, his left hand is actually restraining the left wrist. This actually leaves a lot of room to turn out of it.
There are ways in aikido to escape a rear naked choke but this isn’t one of them, because it’s not a choke.
Of course it’s also worth bearing in mind that this was the All Japan demonstration and being given by the head of the largest/official organisation.
@@JohnSmith-bu1gs its B.S. as are most of what he does, no power= no escape
Here I am Rokas and good afternoon to the two masters commenting the video.
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I'd like to say that to me it's *obvious* you don't see what you expect or viceversa - especially compared to a realistic BJJ match.
I met Aikido in the early '90s and after a few times here and there, I'm attending evening classes with my son ( 7 yrs old ) here where I live.
I'm not sure if it's only me seeing the things in this way, yet here's my 2 cents to the discussion.
I won't even go into the highly philosophical/theoretical sphere, rather I'd love to focus on a couple of points.
As far as I can see, BJJ is a series of techniques for an opponent which is already WAITING for your attack (see feints, grabs) or otherwise expecting you to fight back, or because you hit first for a number of reasons. This is why you have to study how to deal with a situation that's already out of control. And definitely is a very useful martial art. No doubt here. However, Aikido is different in its principle (also not attacking first, if not to unbalance the opponent when he's already willingful to strike you anyway.
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Aikido should surprise your opponent when either he's clearly already attacking (carrying his hit/blow) you no matter what (because he's drunk, bad, presumes to be stronger or whatever) or when he's grabbing you to bully, presuming you won't strike back. All my senseis told me the more willingful is an attack toward you, the more powerful is Aikido (if the person receiving it is able to keep his blood cold and react accordingly, of course) - This kind of video you saw is useless to be debated. You should rather discuss this with those masters, because this is the typical field of practical application on the street. > th-cam.com/video/ZVDV_4xDh4o/w-d-xo.html (another one similar is: th-cam.com/video/lMiE45OmQNM/w-d-xo.html ): look at the first blow he deal with or when one of the bigger guys grabs him on his jacket and he performs a nikyo so that the attacker is out of game (2:35 first video onwards) - of course you may say it's "staged" but basically this is the kind of blows / grabs and the CONTEXT (THIS is the word that you're missing imho) in which they occur.
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In either case, Aikido should make you able to deal with an opponent at his/her very first REAL strike, assumed it's done with full force and intention to go til the end. Feints aren't for Aikido, once one of my senseis told me if they don't want to attack you simply go away - at worst it will be them coming back to you to stop: at that point, when their hand is coming clearly toward you - it's when Aikido works. Not when feinting back and forth. This is what often is misunderstood out there. We're not here to fight but to stop a thing on the very moment, and the ability of an Aikidoka is having success the very first time, because you might not be that lucky next one. You are aware of the attack but you don't provoke it - at worst once the attack has been thrown, you "facilitate" your opponent work coming closer and pushing him to grab / do something you're prepared for or to go for an unbalancing atemi at his face (fake or real it's up to you) - Aikido also gives you a practical defence/footwork against any stick/bat/bottle whatever is used against you. Maybe you fail your defence or maybe things won't work exactly as planned, yet's not being scared of anything yelling you with a bat because you're basically dealing with a shomenuchi / yokomenuchi will help for sure. Aikido tries to make void in front of your opponent so that his own force can be redirected safely. Tell it isn't smart or useful.
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Aikido should make you able to deal with a bullying opponent already close to you and grabbing you/or willing to quite harshly. Evading or counteracting his/her grabs, unbalancing him/her and taking him safely to the ground is what one should be able to do, with the option "if you don't cooperate I'll break your arm". You seem to forget how painful are those levers: you may need several blows to knock you off but only one nikyo (or whatever else) to break your arm/wrist. Third, the youngest of my senseis is about 20/25 yrs old in Aikido and the oldest (now a 6th dan, going for the 7th) is something around 50th yrs old. Can you imagine 50 yrs practicing on footwork and techniques AND trying to grasp its inner core too?
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About Ueshiba and Shioda, did you forget Shioda was able to pin down an US president bodyguard which was twice bigger than him ? that wasn't staged, of course. th-cam.com/video/9dFbX-PoBGM/w-d-xo.html - Not enough, my son performing a perfect technique would be SURELY able to pin down me who am 4x heavier. This is something else that's unique to Aikido. Try a 7 yrs old boxer to knock out an adult if you can !
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Bottom line, we may debate WHICH/WHAT of the Aikido - way of application is entirely useful or effective, and if - once you exit from its purpose - there are other and more effective things / techniques to perform, yet not IF. AIKIDO IS effective, ASSUMED you are skilled to receive a full force attack / first strike / grab and not a series of feints.
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Best regards from Italy.
Long story, but in short, there is a level of Aikido that can be every effective, but still there are things (important things!) missing. Don't forget that to form Aikido, Ueshiba had to take out a lot of hard Aiki-ju-jutsu stuff. It became the law in Japan after WWII.
Context is needed here. Moriteru Ueshiba's demonstration routine is almost always a demonstration of the curriculum of the standard Aikikai shōdan (1st degree black belt) exam (actual exams call for each technique shown here to be repeated several times). Since this is a curriculum demonstration, showing the optimal form of the technique is the goal, and there is no need to add excess power to the throws (as to remove the other person from combat), so it looks really fluid. Also, his partners have taken the same falls for these same techniques thousands of times, so they can tell what technique is happening just by feel of the technique, regardless of the order, so their falls are optimized and beautiful, and admittedly adds to the choreographed look.
Tactically, being able to control your fall can open up opportunities for counters: you see that effect often enough in judo and BJJ matches, although they tend to shape their falls differently than Aikido.
Yeah but it also shows bad technique. Optimal form is misleading because you are never going to see the technique work in that way. I'd like to see a practical application.
The disrespect to Gozo shioda...he saw that he those techniques had realism. 😂😂😂 He couldn’t even fully deny it.
Exactly. When he stated Shioda Kancho had His body forward to be hit really! Shioda was a beast!
Aikido isn't really a martial art, it's just a movement practice that has generalized lots basic patterns that pop up in other martial arts in particular.
For example, you can see the general principles that are in Aikido when you watch Monday night football. It's not that big of a deal.
I practiced Aikido for a long time, then later got into muay thai. At that point in time I was able to apply the general things I learned from Aikido. I got especially good in the clinch, because I had already learned how to listen and be sensitive to how the other person was moving, and understand their intent. And I could use it to really frustrate, fatigue and bang up the other guy. I'd put them thru a real meatgrinder.
Same happens to me, but I'm a ballroom dancer. Not saying that to bash or ridicule, I really just think it's the same principle. In both you learn how to proper read and give clues, so you actually learn how a movement pattern of grappling works and ballroom dancing requires you to grab a hold of your partner because if you don't you aren't dancing, same goes for aikido (and judo, although it relies too much on gi).
I liked how the two BJJ guys are actually very respectful of Aikido and describing what they see as a cooperative event. Despite what they are probably thinking in their heads. What I don't like is the other dude who looks like he's trying to find a reason to smirk, laugh, and perhaps justify his choice.
If you waste 14 years on something next to useless, I am sure you reaction wouldn't be much better.
I would really like to have seen a video critique from two qualified Judoka as to BJJ .
(Having watched 7 min now) I'm disappointed that they never pointed out the obvious question: why would an attacker come at you with a downward chop?
The downward chop could simulate an overhead strike like someone wielding a bottle. More modern Aikido dojos have replaced that attack (shomen uchi) with a more traditional jab, typically to the face.
Normally they have a sword ready along the mat, but using it too often creates complications.
Adamast yea or aikido just fucking sucks
"Practical Aikido" is basicly bad Judo
Aikido is the ballet of self Defense.
I like these observations. It should also be reminded however that there is a difference between a demonstration and a match. Former requires cooperation between participants. Shioda was absolutely the real thing even though some of the performances do look crazy.
Hi
Any chance you could include Aiki ken in your research?
I don't think aikido was ever meant for combat especially looking at the videos of the creator. I think a dance is quiet accurate, its a more spiritual version jujitsu to promote peace between people spaaring/fighters with the defense aspect a secondary goal. If you think of it more in the form of Tai chi it makes more sense , people claim you can use that too for defense but that's not the real goal.
You are pretty much on the money with that! Morihei Ueshiba founded his post war Aikido on harmony and moving in harmony with your opponent and the universe he saw the horrors of war and dedicated his life from that point to peace! If you read any of his books you will find that his art was not designed to harm and his aim not to injure as you rightly say.
next time you do a segment like this, you should have them critique your aikido instructional videos. that way you could get some direct first hand expert criticism and feedback to help you begin to understand that it is you that sucks, not aikido.
That would miss the point. The point is to take a master that virtually all aikidoka would agree is qualified to represent aikido, and then to dissect his technique since it represents the top 1% of aikido performance. Rokas, though I'm sure he's talented at aikido, wouldn't be the guy that most aikidoka agree is best qualified to represent the style.
If we wanted to dissect BJJ techniques, we wouldn't go to local BJJ black belt Joe Bob, we'd probably pull up videos of Eddie Bravo, Shinya Aoki, Keenan Cornelius, Rickson Gracie and so on. That way no BJJer can say "oh well that's not REAL BJJ, that guy sucks, the fact that he made this mistake doesn't mean anything for other BJJers." I'd wager that 99% of BJJ guys would agree that those are fair representatives of BJJ, so if they can't pull off a technique, that reflects pretty poorly on BJJers generally.
No aikido does suck...
Aikido sucks
That would take 5 hours of video.
Best comment under this crapy video. Next time the should comment on this: th-cam.com/video/oKzkSDEN7X8/w-d-xo.html
Did you say that you are learning BJJ in maidstone? where exactly are you learning. I am from maidstone and I plan to start soon.
Tell you what man, I got a yellow belt in judo as a kid and quit shortly after and thats all the hand to hand martial art experience I have. But I do practise Iaido now and I am having a blast. But you have shown me that I need a way to do actual combat since the choregraphed drills in the Kenjutsu parts of our School just arent the same as sparring. So I am taking up Kendo next to Iaido now to fill the gaps. And the best thing is, the headmaster of our school also does this. He is a 7th degree Kendoka and he encourages everyone to practise Kendo too.
I think Aikido could benefit greatly from a headmaster who shares the same views as mine
As far as I know, Imi Lichtenfeld (the founder of Krav Maga) also practiced Aikido among other things. He didn't think it wasn't practical, I suppose.
No, he just copied those techniques that were useful to add to his compiled destruct system.
rokas. pls quit apologizing for aikido and non-practical people. what you guys did here was beautiful and way overdue.
sandai doshu (moriteru) dedicated a whole thing to it in blackbelt magazine. think it was during some big anniversary seminar in hawaii couple years ago. something about the practical people in aikido (military and law enforcement) vs the religious people in aikido (elegant, dance, whatever). everyone needs to respect everyone - if for nothing else for showing up. and yeh, i've had my share of religious folk bragging when they shouldn't. practical people do that too sometimes. usually the more practical they are the less they do that.
i agree with you and love what you're doing and am working through the same process. meanwhile i know from friends before me who have done like dean and bookman and you and alot of cops and military that when you're a bit further in this process, you're gonna pull off an aikido move (probably nikkyo) on an unwilling person and surprise both of ya. i suggest ya be nice. they're gonna think you tore their arm off. probably for hours if not days afterward. and they will change all their attacks so that nikkyo is impossible to get from then on. i've had it with kotagaeshi and sankyo too.
as ever there are stories. a friend trains corrections, emt's, leo and military. he's worked corrections and emt. he changed their sop's and cut workman's comp claims by 95%. he finished the booking process with a sankyo on a repeat customer who routinely damaged officers. the uncooperative prisoner fought the pin 30 min. both arms. by the time he was released, his tendons were so overstretched it took 45 min for his arms to work again. he was face down with arms that didn't work screaming the whole time. gotta know that hurt. pin was gradual and extreme. next day he was fine and a little sore and infinitely grateful to the aikidoka. granted, that friend came from shotokan karate to aikijiujutsu to aikido. and he has infinite experience. just the same, i think anyone in the room who claims aikido is impractical has never trained with someone like this.
keep on and quit apologizing to the religious indignant aikidoka and to the practical students from all walks of life. looking forward to the day when you teach a class like roy dean did on how to improve pins. thank you zdb
"just the same, i think anyone in the room who claims aikido is impractical has never trained with someone like this."
This is so true, yet Rokas seems intent on focusing an entire channel on doing just that. Some of us are trying to respectfully guide him away from making this careless mistake, but channel views and click bait are very tasty temptations....unfortunately.
@@jamesowens9710 i have similar experience to rokas. that's why i like what he's doing. my experience in training with practical aikidoka is that it's hard to translate their skill into my skill. i think matt thornton said it best. it goes to pressure testing and the 80/20 principal. my take is that all arts work well and become the same universal set of skills when the student is consistently trained in all ways to 80% success and 20% absolute failure. without that consist pressure testing, they all devolve to religious beliefs in various directions. kinda curious why rokas didn't have more involvement with sempai who went the direction he's starting out on. people like roy dean? meanwhile, i see the look on his mma teachers' faces when he talks not so well about aikido. even though sandai doshu looks choreographed in this video, it might do us all a favor to talk to someone who's grabbed onto ueshiba sensei. granted he's not matt hughes. then again, he's not a religious leader.
@@jamesowens9710 i don't tell my friends from other arts that aikido sucks. i tell them that i suck. i know people who don't suck. in a number of arts. the real insight comes when you see someone excellent in one art train in another. frequently his skills translate so fast into the new art, it's humbling to everyone around. think bo jackson.
@@jamesowens9710 better yet think gsp or any in how many generations now of mma who gotta learn to keep up with everyone else who is.
@TheGoogler77 th-cam.com/video/-FLC0sWiobE/w-d-xo.html
The guy in blue gets it, definitely someone with experience and understanding. Enough to show the proper respect and open-mindedness to give a proper analysis. What you should discuss with them is the principle of Aiki, not Aikido. Being high-level BJJ practitioners, they should have a good idea. Some have called it the Rickson connection principle, it's the same as Aiki.
I like watching Aikido because it's like two person katas. I was introduced to youtube videos about it by a guy I used to train parkour with. The way they roll feels like it inspired a lot of of parkour rolls. i think it would be cool to create a training regiment that fuses parkour with acroyoga. You would get a more fun less class (pun intended--the only reason I didn't take an aikido class ever is because they are so damn expensive) based version of Aikido
I wonder how many aikido practitioners want to fighr you on a dail basis for showing them honest critiques? Love you vids bro
True.I just had a reply to my comment earlier by someone who swears aikido works because Ueshiba did this or that to.so and so?
They are seriously delusional and offer no credible proof that it works what so ever.
None of them will actually try to fight him because they'd lose. lol
It's actually disturbing how much gleeful is rokas at shitting something he's been doing 14 years.
That being said, i honestly believe aikido to be next to useless, but seeing bjj guys criticizing on that is ridiculous. Their martial art is very popular, but it is sport, 1vs1 with rules. Good luck defending a punch in self defence. Rokas is a bandwagon for starting to do that, of all things.
Also, probably other people are right. Aikido is supposed to be taught to other people already competent at something else, and then they could find the way to apply it
As a human being Rokas is a hypocrite. He will do everything to bash aikido then he will complain that nobody likes him, lol. He is like a 5-year old kid, but he has no future.
Probably like getting out of jail for him, he finally has some confidence in himself.
I have trained in Motobu Ha Shito Ryu which in the United States, later became Kuniba Ha Shito Ryu. But our founder, Kuniba Soke also trained in Judo, and Aikido. His Aikido Sensei was Gozo Shioda. Kuniba Soke's successor in the United States was William (Bill) H. Price Soke, who Kuniba Soke awarded Soke Diako, of Kuniba Ha Shito Ryu, and Kuniba Ha Goshin Budo (Goshin Do). Price Soke always said... Aikido today is only good if your partner is also doing Aikido. He also said, the principals of Aikido are good and work well. BTW, Price Soke was in law enforcement all of his life. He was a Sheriff, and Chief of Police at different times in the state of VA. He was also the lead defensive tacktive instructor for the VA state police, and the VA department of corrections along with other law enforcement agencies. He taught, you never try to control someone with a wrist, or joint lock. That's not what they were originally intended for. Rather, those techniques were to destroy the joint, only as a step towards the finish of a fight. So many people try to use Aikido to try to control an opponent. That's where it fails. Yes, it works very well if your opponent is also doing Aikdo,. But the true pre World War 2 application was Budo. Destroy the joint, to only move on to the final finish.
That's where the Post World War 2 Aikdo failed. It took out the Budo. It tried to teach, one could control an opponent without hurting him. That only works if the opponent is weaker, or doesn't resist. The real original application was to destroy the joint and move on the kill. That's why if fails in practical application so often today.
the cooperation has a lot to do wth the feeder the tore has a weapon that the uke is trying to stop from being used. about the knees --- old dojo has a very low ceiling fighting in a room with a low ceiling. i is old times but there is a lot to learn form the suwari waza- if you can do it sitting you can be better at standing. it is old but it does work i have locked a lot of wresters out. blessings. find a good school. it is the teacher that conveys the correct principals.
For God's sake. Just start sending BJJ practitioners to Aikido dojos and ask for a sparing match. Or a demonstration of technique on a BJJ practitioner. The debate in the comment section is nauseating.
I think that these BJJ gentlemen do not realize that this is just a presentation and techniques .. It is obvious that in a real situation the dynamics all change. Ueshiba sensei already said: "Learn the form, keep the form and get out of the form". I think for those who study any martial art you can understand what he really meant.
Kinda true the kata itself on karate
Fair to look aikido in different angles and perspective. Would be interesting if there is a real match between aikido (master level) and other forms of martial arts.
I did Aikido for a year and have been doing bjj and judo for a few months. In my opinion, I don't think Aikido is completely useless. It just can't be a base martial art. I feel like it helped me catch on quickly to the others, especially judo. I already knew how to fall and how to roll. I've been using irimis and irimi tenkan in randori. Ive managed to do a tenchi nage in judo randori. I also managed to do an aiki otoshi in bjj when we start standing up. Finding wristlocks has helped me on the ground. I feel like a year was enough of Aikido