I recall there being a disastrous class of Swedish trains that choked on pollen in spring, overheated in summer, slid like a bastard in autumn, and choked on snow in the winter, so yep, pretty accurate.
Way back when,the Pennsy had problems with the GG-1's,as the ingested some extremely fine snow,which in turn,blew out the blower motors! Delayed more than a few trains! Led to many modifications over the years,and the noses of those engines,became,no two alike,interesting! Somewhere on the web,I hope,some kind individual has put up the evolution of those arrangements! Thank you! Thank you 😇 😊!!
I really hope you see this Mr Hazzard. This channel, to me, is one of the best on TH-cam in its genre. It’s informative, easy to watch, entertaining and lighthearted. You educate your viewers, in more ways than one. You’ve taught us why and how London is the way it is. Most importantly, you have made some of my journeys quicker, easier and more interesting just based on the things you’ve included in your videos. I appreciate you and your channel Jago. Keep up the good work!
Too true! I've only ever been to London once, so I don't really need to know about many of the topics that Jago covers in his videos, but he does it so well and is so entertaining, that I find it very enjoyable to watch!
I was the guard on the first GWR train to Cheltenham one autumn. We stopped at Kemble just fine,but when we got to Stroud the brakes went on,but the train just slithered through the station,and past. The signal box wouldn’t let us set back,so we had to drop the Stroud passengers off at Stonehouse.
In the 90s I worked a steam tourist train in America. I recall 1 day taking a train of people on a run with a long hill. Our sand was wet too, so it wouldnt funnel down. So I on the engineers side and a guy on the other, sat with our feet on the cow catcher, at 25mph, dumping sand on the railheads with coffee cans of dry sand. Wet leaves were keepin us in the gorge. 11 miles we did it. Never forget that adventure.
From living near a railway, those adhesion trains send cats absolutely crazy when they go past. I guess it's like a hoover and a water gun and a loud thing and a hissing thing all turned up to eleven!
This video brought back memories from lang time ago. In 1983 I did an internship at the Dutch National Railways (NS). Around that time in the north part of the country they had moved from trains with brake shoes on the rim to trains with disk brakes (DH1 and DH2 Wadloper for the dutch readers here). Also this new stock did roll more straight and not slide left-right while moving. If you looked at the top surface of the track you only see a narrow blank surface in the rust where the wheels made contact. Anyway, in that autumn It was a very warm and dry and there had been some complaints that the the gates of a railway crossing went up as the train was at the crossing. We were trying to recreate this problem by throwing lots of leaves on the rails and letting trains go over it (between Groningen and Noord). At a certain moment a train stopped and the driver told us that it just happened again in another town (note it was 1983 and there were no mobile phones).So we jumped in our cars and went over (to Hardegarijp). On that particular traject were a large number of high trees and a dark layer of crushed leaves had formed an insulating layer. Due to the modern train stock this layer was not wiped away. Not long after my internship ended and I do not know what they eventually did to solve the problem. I did hear though that they experimented with a French system with small high voltage spikes. Also, thanks for the interesting videos!
My neighbour (Frank Cossey, now deceased) at our old address worked on the railways as a fireman back in the 1950s. He told me they tried attaching a jet engine to the front of a loco once to melt the ice as it moved forward. However, when they started up the jet engine it only pushed the near 100 ton engine backwards.
Thanks for another great video, Jago. One damp autumn morning some 25 years ago I was on a class 456 commuter train travelling to London Victoria on the South London line. These are 2 car units and in the rush I expect to see two of them linked up to make a 4-car rake. No so that morning, by Peckham Rye the 2-car unit was packed solid with long-suffering commuters. As it approached Denmark Hill station the driver applied the brakes, but to no real effect and the train literally slid through the whole of the 8-car capacity platform, only coming to a halt some 50 yards up the line. Passengers hoping to alight were told to get off at Clapham High Street, and just missing a return train had nearly 30 minutes wait for the next one back. Those were the days!
Quite possibly some trains were out of service due to "flats" developing on the wheels when they slide - another awkward byproduct of leaves. Hence your 2 car train.
I used to drive (?) the subway in Stockholm, Sweden. I'm pretty sure there is no substance on earth that are more slippery than leafs. The explanation I got is that there are a protein in leafs that's innocent enough. Until it gets hot that is. The heat from the wheels makes it change property and is pure evil. The worst thing is that it isn't the same evil the whole track. Some parts can be without it really being an issue, then suddenly you can go half speed, start breaking twice as early and still barely decrease your speed by the platform. My worst experience is going 20 km/h, breaking about 100m before the station and still not be able to stop. When I had passed the platform and let go of the break to just keep going to the next, I was going about 15 km/h. I stayed at 15 and almost didn't get it to stop at that station either. You compared it to ice, rain or bugs. In my experience, ice or rain is no where near as slippery. Rain, specially light sprinkles, gets kind of close-ish. It also makes the debris on the track into a slush. Not as much as the leaves, but still. Snow can be really slippery in small amounts. Counterintuitively heavy snow or heavy rain is annoying at best, but not particularly slippery. The more the better! It is slipper is fudge for the first train that passes in the morning because it pics up all the gunk and virtually clean the track for all the other trains for that day.
Of course keeping the track side clear of trees helps. If you look at old pictures of railways very often the vicinity is empty, and on the BBC news report about the Salisbury crash they highlighted the way the trees had grown in recent years.
As a freight train driver, low adhesion is the bane of my existence. I'm newly qualified too, so it's been a baptism of fire being thrown out there on my own slipping and sliding around with some heavy weights behind me!
Enjoy driving, it's a great career. Even in the autumn. ;) At least with a decent amount of weight and a decent number of vehicles (with progressively cleaner wheels) and tread brakes rather than disc you stand a decent chance of stopping. I've had some sphincter-clenching slides over the years with the lightweight passenger units I drive. The latest batch of disc-braked units I get to 'enjoy' don't even have scrubber blocks because some office-dweller has decreed them as not cost-effective.
As succinct, informative and entertaining as ever. I particularly enjoyed the blink-and-you'll-miss-it quip aboout the meteorological vagaries of the British summertime.
I hear that (on the London Underground, at least, for the sections of line above ground) the trains specially adapted from former passenger stock for dealing with leaves on the line are called RATs, standing for Rail Adhesion Trains.
I once got on a train in Glasgow and got talking to the conductor. He mentioned that on one recent journey, they were losing time due to leaves on the line,and he went up and down the carriages informing the paying passengers of this. One adult piped up and asked if they couldn’t “drive around them”? The concept of a “Rail-way” (the clue’s in the name) had to be explained to him. I wept!
Excellent description of leaves and how they impact rail traffic. Simply put and easy to understand. Thank you for enlightening your viewers. My entire career has been working with railways in various parts of the world, and this is by far the best description of leaves I've ever heard.
For years I've been hearing about the delays caused by leaves on the track but this little video has finally explained the problem and what the rail companies are trying to do about it in a way that I (an average guy) can understand. Thank you Mr. Hazzard.
Yep! I've recently just joined the rail industry and I'm primarily working on the track. We've been briefed on leaves plenty, so if you're in Wessex I'll be clearing the leaves!
1:07 Ice isn't a problem for trains though. Not when it comes to slipperiness at least. Now don't get me wrong, winter can cause problems for trains, but they have virtually nothing to do with icy tracks, at least not in places like the UK or here in Denmark, where I've worked as a train driver for 15 years. One of our main winter problems is how snow can get compacted in rail switches, so they're unable to operate. Snow and ice can also create other problems like making it difficult to close the doors, or covering up signal lights or picking up great amounts of snow under train cars or around the brakes. But slippery tracks because of ice is just not really a thing. Leaves on the line, on the other hand, that is most definitely an issue. The worst possible condition is after a few days or weeks with relatively dry, windy weather, where lots of leaves fall on the tracks and passing trains basically grind them down so they fuse to the top of the rail - and then a slight drizzle comes along to moisten it all up. That is unbelievably slippery. Heavy rain is much better, as it more or less washes it away instead.
As a british rail freight guard, I have had problems with leaves and a 30 wagon coal train has come to a standstill as it entered the slow so blocking both fast and slow tracks giving everybody a headache.
I’m going to admit I thought I knew the score already on this one - wheel spin. Call me smugins. However (now call me Uriah Heep) I had not realised the, clearly dangerous, possibility that mushed-up leaves can result in a train become invisible. So, another fascinating - and informative - video from the pen/camera of Mr Hazard.
Sadly the story has been a little over simplified,yes it is true that a train can disappear from the system but in today's computer controlled railway it has become vital that all trains are tracked as they move along their route. If one becomes lost from the system the computer drops the ball and puts all the signals back to red and awaits devine intervention from the one poor signaler that can pick up the pieces to get the job running again, this poor individual can be dealing with tens of miles of tracks and multiple train's all at the same time , sadly if one goes astray he no longer has the privilege of looking out of the signal box windows to check on its progress through the various track sections using his mark one eyeballs,so much for centralised control of signaling .
London Underground also have sandite trains as well as Network Rail. The Central, Piccadilly and Metropolitan have special trains that spray the tracks with sandite during these months. The Central and Piccadilly have 2 trains (1 for each open section of the line) while the Metropolitan has 1 that covers the line from Neasden and all destinations further west than Neasden (Uxbridge, Amersham etc.)
The other thing was, back in steam days it was very rare for trees to be allowed to grow anywhere within the boundary. Embankments and cuttings would be completely clear of vegetation. These days there're trees all over the railways.
That's because the men who traditionally maintained the track, fencing and vegetation have been replaced by mega machines which only look after the track.
The steam engines also helped to self-regulate vegetation as the hot cinders would set it on fire before it could grow much. This sometimes becomes apparent nowadays when steam specials run and cause lineside fires. Trackside vegetation has increased noticeably over the years, especially in rural areas. A bit frustrating because nice views disappear in summer, so that March and April may now be the best times to travel lines and enjoy good views in sunshine.
Hi Jago from Spain. Thanks for an explanation to those who did not previously know about the story behind the problem. You will have to do the "Wrong type of snow!" next
I can remember reading reports of trains in Adelaide, South Australia being affected by Portuguese Millipedes making their home on the track, getting squashed and reducing traction. The Portuguese Millipede is an introduced pest in Australia and interestingly the first report of the invasive species in South Australia is in my home town of Port Lincoln in 1953, likely via an overseas ship visiting the port.
It is true - a colleague was shipped over to Australia to investigate following an incident. At that time the problem was the use of DC track circuits with , effectively, the wrong power supply/battery arrangement. I believe that some high voltage pulse Track Circuits were installed to break through the compressed millipedes 😄
A footnote to this video: The recent RAIB report on the collision just outside Salisbury in 2021 points to leaf contamination on the rail as one of the immediate causes of the collision. I'm keeping this document to wave at people who complain about this as a cancellation reason. It's an interesting read.
@@mantasr "responsible" seems an odd word to use here on a number of levels - not least, because it was the *SWR* train that went through the red signal. Secondly, unless it's a very clear-cut case, if you're looking for causes of an incident and how not to make it happen again, assigning individual responsibility is very rarely useful, and is often decidedly harmful. This is because it prevents you from addressing structural issues (in this case, that NR weren't looking for rail contamination as often as they could, for example). When complex systems with safety interlocks fail, it is rarely one thing that has gone wrong, or one person who directly bears responsibility. Thirdly, even in fields that are much less safety-critical than rail, it's good methodology to anonymise incidents or investigations or whatever one calls them. This is to minimise the potential impact of politics, favouritism, etc. So I don't totally understand why you'd *expect* to be able to find the name of the GWR driver.
@@mantasr The GWR train was where it was supposed to be. It was hit by an SWR train that had over-run signals because te line had not been treated, and because the line was unexpectedly extra-slippery because of a recent heavy shower. The SWR driver, who had worked for the railways for sixty years, was badly injured and has now retired.
A friend I lost contact with is originally from the Portsmouth area. I once found him a birthday card with a steam train travelling in autumn (where the US has less issue with leaves, but still has the same problem). He did find it incredibly funny because I had heard about this for years.
less problems? i argue we have more! it’s common on multiple lines to have delays due to the leaves, with lines from Maine down to Virginia and the Carolinas being impacted by the leaves….especially the Hudson River valley lines, Lakeshore Limited, and Capitol Limited/Pennsylvanian getting impacted multiple times from September on through December due to the keaves
I work in a toc control room, and it annoys me no end when people joke about something as silly as a leaf on the line being the cause of a cancellation, we had to remove a train from service just yesterday because of suspected wheel contamination causing a track circuit failure, it was potentially a massive danger to have it running
I'm well used to leaves on the line being the reason for a delay at this time of year, but once on a rather windy afternoon, I heard the announcer at Bristol Temple Meads announce a delay due to a gazebo on the line.
The caption of this video has unlocked a core memory, and I am currently sobbing like a child... Leaves on the line, falling so slow Like tiny fragile shells drifting in the foam. Little soldier boy, come marching home Brave soldier boy, come marching home
As a mainline driver, I can confirm a good slide (even at very low speeds) gets your attention and gets you sitting bolt upright very quickly! And I thank you for covering this topic 🍁🍁🍁👍🏻
Crushing leaves releases pectin, the same protein that’s used to jellify fruit pulp into jam. Pectin can also solidify into a very hard & slippery surface when allowed to dry, with most leaves taking as much as half a year to break down into soul. Leaves on the line is a very serious excuse, and way worse for trains to deal with than snow or ice.
Jago,taking a leaf out of your book,on Autumnal antics,you have gone on a slippery slope! Raily got the puns,I hope!! Thank you,for another side excursion on a leafy,and grunge subject! Thank you 😇 😊! Lol!! Thanks 😊!
I've seen the R.A.T. unit (rail adhesion train) nipping up and down the Met line for some weeks now. It's a converted "D" stock train but looks at first glance like a beloved "A" stock. As a result, people have got quite excitedly nostalgic...until they realise.
Thanks for dealing with the problem. It has often occurred to me that the problem is exacerbated by early train routes being placed in cuttings so that the more refined classes would see fewer trains. The cuttings then had trees beside and over them, and hence more leaves on the track. This refusal to see trains as lovely is part of the HS2 tunnel skyrocketing costs owing to tunnels where trains will not interfere with Buckinghamshire (and other county) beauty.
Bonus at the end of this excellent episode was seeing the Central Line platform at Greenford with the semaphore signal on the adjacent Chiltern rail line. 👏👏👍😎
Thanks for your humerous explanation! You may rest assured, though, that this problem is not only plaguing British railways. Over here in Germany (and I assume any other country located in a temperate zone) it‘s just the same every autumn and we, too, have those people sniffing at that presumably lame excuse. Next time I see such a comment I‘ll send them right to this video.
Just this past weekend, I was helping with one the steam locomotives at the Illinois Railway Museum, and noticed a pipe hanging down directly over the rail, just behind the rear-most driver. Turns out that directs steam at the railhead. Perhaps that would wash things off. I know that sometimes old steam locomotives were used to burn weeds off the right of way, also.
I'm not sure if it's a Sandite train but I have been seeing a Network Rail cleaning unit going past my window an awful lot over the last couple of months (Certainly feels a lot more common than it has been the last 10 years or so) Also, my level of nerdiness must be off the charts because I just *had* to tab in and out of the video multiple times trying to figure out which Great Western locomotive was on screen at 3:03 😆 (It was the Saint class 'Lady of Legend' in case anyone else was wondering)
An interesting fact regarding sand causing loss of detection by the track circuits; a train fitted with sanding equipment must have a minimum of six axles following the axle that receives the sand, six axles being enough to either crush or displace the sand sufficiently to keep the track circuit showing occupied. This meant that Pacers could not be fitted with sanding equipment because they only have four axles. Some low speed crashes did occur due to this rule, there was one at Exeter St Davids I think.
Apart from the interesting stuff about the various ways to combat the LOTL issue, what I enjoyed most about this video was all the different examples of locos you showed us Jago. Cheers ! 😎👍
The track circuit problem is one we actually have had many times this autumn in the Netherlands, since for some reason sandite has barely been sprayed on the tracks this year. I feel like almost every week I hear of a train passing over a level crossing that was still open. Also there's actually a low use passenger line that Prorail, the owner of the infrastructure, has decided to shut down for the season. Not being able to stop is also an issue, yesterday even there was a near miss at a station where an intercity service with braking issues almost crashed into the rear of another train. Luckily it was avoided, but still.
Very interesting video indeed, Dear Jago. Albeit so simplistic in nature. How ever the simpler things in our lives often get ignored or just overlooked whilst they still hold their place in the big, overall picture. I recall the steam engines of yesteryear being fitted with sand boxes for use where slippage occurred on steep gradients thus improving traction. But I have not been aware of the problems encountered in the UIK with leaves being turned into greasy mush that create a safety hazard. Black ice may cause a problem in parts of south eastern Australia but unheard of here in Queensland. Thanks again. Every video you make appeals to me. I eagerly await them.
In case someone wonders -- this sort of thing can be a problem on the US side of the pond, too, but much less so -- for two reasons. First place, almost all locomotives have sanding gear (often automatic) -- and use it. The other is the much greater axle loadings usually involved (squish!). Back in the day, though, the Budd RDC cars, which had a light axle loading, caused all kinds of trouble (usually with signals, but also stalling or sliding)
Brilliant as usual, but even more so this evening, this is one of those subjects that passes by without notice yet is critical! Many thanks for such an erudite coverage of the topic👏
I remeber looking at photos of the steam era, and trees and other vegetation are vigourously cut back..nowadays, shrubs and tress are growing much closer to the line...so maybe thats why leaves on the line are much more of a problem now...
Also in the steam era, sparks from the chimney would regularly set fire to leaves and trees by the lineside, removing the cause of the leaves on the line problem.
What an important subject to make a video on. And one that gets overlooked, yet such a profound problem for the railways. I’m not surprised it was you that made it. Well done and thanks
I always wondered why we dont have the same problems in Germany, now I know: For a long time we have been slowly changing from track circuits to wheel counters for train detections. Small sensors count the train axles when entering and leaving a track section and if the number matches the whole train has cleared the section. If you dont rely on track circuits for critical safety data, leafs on the are much less problematic, even though they might still cause small delays due to more careful acceleration and braking.
An even bigger problem with track circuits is automatic signalling, where a build up of mush can actually stop signals reverting to danger, thus allowing another train into the section automatically.
The exact same problem exists here in Finland, as well as snow causing the same issue during winter. People always bitch about the railways apparently still haven't figured a way to deal with a problem that occurs for literally half the year. Then again, it's not like motorists are any better, considering "winter surprises motorists" is a standard news headline that appears like clockwork once a year (you'd think they'd be used to winter coming by now, considering it happens every year, but seems it always comes as a surprise).
Ever since I watched "The Trouble with Mud" in Thomas the Tank Engine/read "Leaves" in The Railway Series, I have always respected the excuse of "leaves on the line".
We used to have some Class 501 units up here with Merseyrail as Sandite units (I think they were reclassified as Class 936). Very odd seeing slam door stock potter about when the weather demanded, not at all like the units we were used to.
Thank you, Mr H, all most informative. (That's all most ... not 'almost' ... just in case you were wondering, or pondering, or ... ) Entirely to your usually high standard. Where would we be without you, I ask myself. Actually, I've just asked your readers. Simon T
Love Mr hazards videos. So informative with that audable chocolate voice. I wish your were my teacher in secondary school, would been a straight A student ❤
In the steam age, vegetation next to the tracks was kept low due to the fire hazard. After the withdrawal of steam traction, the vegetation regrew and now we have trees directly next to the tracks. It looks great and has all the benefits of green vegetation for the global and local climate, but causes operational problems, as you pointed out.
There is also the problem that some wheels, due to lack of friction when braking will lock up (despite anti-lock systems) and get scraped along the track forming flats meaning, if they are bad, that the train has to be taken out of service to get them turned on a wheel lathe. This reduces the number of trains available for services.
I was always pleased to see the RAT (Rail Adhesion Train) on the Met Line as it was the last A-stock train running. I'm not sure what they're using now.
I used to live next to the ECML and always wondered what those noisy grinding trains going past during the night were for- my dad called it the Hell Train😂thanks for the info, Jago!
This isn’t the explanation for what you have described = that would be a rail-head milling train ~ it grinds a very thin layer off the top of the rail-head giving commuter trains a smooth ride
My commute to/from Teddington involved a change at Twickenham on to the Kingston loop via Strawberry Hill. On one occasion the leaf clearing train broke down on the Kingston bound track adjacent to Strawberry Hill depot. We sat at Strawberry Hill for a while as the powers that be decided what to do. Just as I was going to get out and walk the rest of the way, the guard announced that we were going to pull into Fulwell station, where the driver would change ends and reverse back on to the line towards Waterloo. My supervisor at the time was a tedious git who'd crack the same "joke" every time I was late due to a problem with the train... "Wrong kinda leaves on the line? Huh, huh." This time I was ready. "Nearly. Wrong kind of leaf blower on the line."
I had thought it was just an axle loading and adhesion thing with some modern trains being lighter than a steam engine so thanks for the bigger picture. I put an old 1d coin-about 32mm diameter by 1mm or so thick- on tram rails. Since this had been the fad on the last days of service when a lot of places gave up their trams around the 50's, I wanted to try it with the new generation of trams. The tram noticeably bounced as it pretzelled and ejected the coin but it didn't half make me jump as I just assumed (ha!) that it would go through it like a knife butter.
One observation about steam trains, leaves and vegetation... The steam train is, to some degree, self-maintaining in this area because of the tendency of embers from the smokestack to cause trackside fires (not necessarily large ones) which controlled the vegetation. In our climate (UK) these tend to burn out quite quickly but would nonetheless reduce trackside vegetation - see 50s photos of UK trains and the grass covered embankments - no trees or Japanese Knotweed there! In the USA, large areas of the country have very hot, dry Summers and the early trains used the big 'diamond' or 'ballon' smoke stacks to catch more of the embers and reduce the risk of bigger fires in forests and across the plains. Presumably, in later years some clever contraption was designed to achieve the same effect in modern locos. Maybe we should run more mainline steam excursions each year to keep the vegetation under control?
On our tram network the sandy method is still in use and on high rail (not embedded in the streets) they burn the leaves under the rails after a passage of the vacuum cleaner tram… Sometimes-on the gradient up a small hill -I thought “I should go out to help push the tram”…
Nobody has commented what I was thinking: Why not send workers out to clear the leaves? Wouldn’t this be the simplest solution? You could send them out after leaves have been reported to control by a driver or a track inspector, or if there are issues at the signal box, they could be sent out. Or if that area is covered by CCTV, you could send workers out after seeing it on the screen?
Actually in the event of an unreliable track circuit all traffic does not need to be halted - module TS11, section 15.1/2/3 cover the procedures. 3-5 working is common in problem TCB areas, which itself can lead to delays. Apart from obvious breaking and accelerating issues, in many ways the biggest concern when a track circuit is unreliable/failed to operate, is for instance the potential for an associated stop signal reverting, or level crossing not operating correctly (I’m simplifying hugely). Also, in my neck of the woods, NR uses high-pressure water jets only - no sandite. But then this can also cause problems when it removes lubricant, as well as leaf mulch, at points and crossovers. Everyone scoffs, but honestly it’s no joke.
Many a bored commuter's life waiting for the service up to town has been brightened up by the passing of the leaf cleansing train in all shapes, ages, sizes and colours, though yellow seems the most popular. And more than a few irritated commuters have sat in a railway coach with the loud banging of flat spots on the wheels (caused by sliding along the track with locked wheels due to brakes being full on, often during the leafing season). I don't know if its still a problem, but back in my commuting days, trains often used to get withdrawn from service due to flat spots being repaired in the Autumn leading to delays due to stock shortages.
I was hoping for some footage of the LT “RAT”s , vintage stock (a 1959/62 tubes stock train and a D78 subsurface train) converted to Rail Adhesion Trains, both getting plenty of use at this time of year.
I could be wrong, but I thought compressed leaves eventually carbonise, turning into something akin to Teflon, making it much worse than just "slippery mulch".
The four enemies of the railway: spring, summer, autumn and winter.
You omit the fifth - Government interference.
I recall there being a disastrous class of Swedish trains that choked on pollen in spring, overheated in summer, slid like a bastard in autumn, and choked on snow in the winter, so yep, pretty accurate.
The four enemies of the british railways: spring, summer, autumn and winter... corrected... ;-)
Way back when,the Pennsy had problems with the GG-1's,as the ingested some extremely fine snow,which in turn,blew out the blower motors! Delayed more than a few trains! Led to many modifications over the years,and the noses of those engines,became,no two alike,interesting! Somewhere on the web,I hope,some kind individual has put up the evolution of those arrangements! Thank you! Thank you 😇 😊!!
……and passengers.
I really hope you see this Mr Hazzard. This channel, to me, is one of the best on TH-cam in its genre. It’s informative, easy to watch, entertaining and lighthearted. You educate your viewers, in more ways than one. You’ve taught us why and how London is the way it is. Most importantly, you have made some of my journeys quicker, easier and more interesting just based on the things you’ve included in your videos. I appreciate you and your channel Jago. Keep up the good work!
I couldn’t have put it better sir 😊 Fred
He is the youtuber to your viewing :)
Too true! I've only ever been to London once, so I don't really need to know about many of the topics that Jago covers in his videos, but he does it so well and is so entertaining, that I find it very enjoyable to watch!
I was the guard on the first GWR train to Cheltenham one autumn. We stopped at Kemble just fine,but when we got to Stroud the brakes went on,but the train just slithered through the station,and past. The signal box wouldn’t let us set back,so we had to drop the Stroud passengers off at Stonehouse.
In the 90s I worked a steam tourist train in America. I recall 1 day taking a train of people on a run with a long hill. Our sand was wet too, so it wouldnt funnel down. So I on the engineers side and a guy on the other, sat with our feet on the cow catcher, at 25mph, dumping sand on the railheads with coffee cans of dry sand. Wet leaves were keepin us in the gorge. 11 miles we did it. Never forget that adventure.
From living near a railway, those adhesion trains send cats absolutely crazy when they go past. I guess it's like a hoover and a water gun and a loud thing and a hissing thing all turned up to eleven!
Or maybe they're just offended by the filthiness of the locos. I assume a significant proportion of the sandite gets splattered over them.
Wait til you hear a rail grinder going past...
Always makes me imagine cleaning those is a punishment for naughty cleaners...
Mad respect to Jago for ending the video by dropping that leaf pun on the rails of our lives
Jago arboralis...non deciduous.
I wanted to leaf a like just for that.
The scale of the problem is unbeleavable.
This video brought back memories from lang time ago.
In 1983 I did an internship at the Dutch National Railways (NS). Around that time in the north part of the country they had moved from trains with brake shoes on the rim to trains with disk brakes (DH1 and DH2 Wadloper for the dutch readers here). Also this new stock did roll more straight and not slide left-right while moving. If you looked at the top surface of the track you only see a narrow blank surface in the rust where the wheels made contact.
Anyway, in that autumn It was a very warm and dry and there had been some complaints that the the gates of a railway crossing went up as the train was at the crossing.
We were trying to recreate this problem by throwing lots of leaves on the rails and letting trains go over it (between Groningen and Noord). At a certain moment a train stopped and the driver told us that it just happened again in another town (note it was 1983 and there were no mobile phones).So we jumped in our cars and went over (to Hardegarijp).
On that particular traject were a large number of high trees and a dark layer of crushed leaves had formed an insulating layer. Due to the modern train stock this layer was not wiped away.
Not long after my internship ended and I do not know what they eventually did to solve the problem. I did hear though that they experimented with a French system with small high voltage spikes.
Also, thanks for the interesting videos!
My neighbour (Frank Cossey, now deceased) at our old address worked on the railways as a fireman back in the 1950s. He told me they tried attaching a jet engine to the front of a loco once to melt the ice as it moved forward. However, when they started up the jet engine it only pushed the near 100 ton engine backwards.
That's becase the exhaust has to be pointed some 70 plus degrees down, not horizontally!
So that locomotive was... retrofitted?
@@jaakkomantyjarvi7515Oh dear 😂😂
The Swiss manage perfectly well. Might not actually be a jet engine though.
The RAF used jet engines mounted on trolleys to de-ice runways and they didn't go backwards. Much.
Thanks for another great video, Jago. One damp autumn morning some 25 years ago I was on a class 456 commuter train travelling to London Victoria on the South London line. These are 2 car units and in the rush I expect to see two of them linked up to make a 4-car rake. No so that morning, by Peckham Rye the 2-car unit was packed solid with long-suffering commuters. As it approached Denmark Hill station the driver applied the brakes, but to no real effect and the train literally slid through the whole of the 8-car capacity platform, only coming to a halt some 50 yards up the line. Passengers hoping to alight were told to get off at Clapham High Street, and just missing a return train had nearly 30 minutes wait for the next one back. Those were the days!
Quite possibly some trains were out of service due to "flats" developing on the wheels when they slide - another awkward byproduct of leaves. Hence your 2 car train.
I used to drive (?) the subway in Stockholm, Sweden. I'm pretty sure there is no substance on earth that are more slippery than leafs. The explanation I got is that there are a protein in leafs that's innocent enough. Until it gets hot that is. The heat from the wheels makes it change property and is pure evil. The worst thing is that it isn't the same evil the whole track. Some parts can be without it really being an issue, then suddenly you can go half speed, start breaking twice as early and still barely decrease your speed by the platform. My worst experience is going 20 km/h, breaking about 100m before the station and still not be able to stop. When I had passed the platform and let go of the break to just keep going to the next, I was going about 15 km/h. I stayed at 15 and almost didn't get it to stop at that station either.
You compared it to ice, rain or bugs. In my experience, ice or rain is no where near as slippery. Rain, specially light sprinkles, gets kind of close-ish. It also makes the debris on the track into a slush. Not as much as the leaves, but still. Snow can be really slippery in small amounts. Counterintuitively heavy snow or heavy rain is annoying at best, but not particularly slippery. The more the better! It is slipper is fudge for the first train that passes in the morning because it pics up all the gunk and virtually clean the track for all the other trains for that day.
Of course keeping the track side clear of trees helps. If you look at old pictures of railways very often the vicinity is empty, and on the BBC news report about the Salisbury crash they highlighted the way the trees had grown in recent years.
As a freight train driver, low adhesion is the bane of my existence. I'm newly qualified too, so it's been a baptism of fire being thrown out there on my own slipping and sliding around with some heavy weights behind me!
🤔Looking on the bright-side at least with a set of flats 😏it will save you falling🥱 💤💤💤💤for the rest of your shift🤐
Enjoy driving, it's a great career. Even in the autumn. ;)
At least with a decent amount of weight and a decent number of vehicles (with progressively cleaner wheels) and tread brakes rather than disc you stand a decent chance of stopping.
I've had some sphincter-clenching slides over the years with the lightweight passenger units I drive. The latest batch of disc-braked units I get to 'enjoy' don't even have scrubber blocks because some office-dweller has decreed them as not cost-effective.
As succinct, informative and entertaining as ever. I particularly enjoyed the blink-and-you'll-miss-it quip aboout the meteorological vagaries of the British summertime.
0:04 This in depth information is why I watch Jago's videos
And 0:06, too.
😂
I hear that (on the London Underground, at least, for the sections of line above ground) the trains specially adapted from former passenger stock for dealing with leaves on the line are called RATs, standing for Rail Adhesion Trains.
I once got on a train in Glasgow and got talking to the conductor. He mentioned that on one recent journey, they were losing time due to leaves on the line,and he went up and down the carriages informing the paying passengers of this. One adult piped up and asked if they couldn’t “drive around them”? The concept of a “Rail-way” (the clue’s in the name) had to be explained to him. I wept!
Excellent description of leaves and how they impact rail traffic. Simply put and easy to understand. Thank you for enlightening your viewers.
My entire career has been working with railways in various parts of the world, and this is by far the best description of leaves I've ever heard.
Thank you for another tree-mendous video and for turning over a new leaf for us.
For years I've been hearing about the delays caused by leaves on the track but this little video has finally explained the problem and what the rail companies are trying to do about it in a way that I (an average guy) can understand. Thank you Mr. Hazzard.
Yep! I've recently just joined the rail industry and I'm primarily working on the track. We've been briefed on leaves plenty, so if you're in Wessex I'll be clearing the leaves!
1:07 Ice isn't a problem for trains though. Not when it comes to slipperiness at least. Now don't get me wrong, winter can cause problems for trains, but they have virtually nothing to do with icy tracks, at least not in places like the UK or here in Denmark, where I've worked as a train driver for 15 years. One of our main winter problems is how snow can get compacted in rail switches, so they're unable to operate. Snow and ice can also create other problems like making it difficult to close the doors, or covering up signal lights or picking up great amounts of snow under train cars or around the brakes. But slippery tracks because of ice is just not really a thing.
Leaves on the line, on the other hand, that is most definitely an issue. The worst possible condition is after a few days or weeks with relatively dry, windy weather, where lots of leaves fall on the tracks and passing trains basically grind them down so they fuse to the top of the rail - and then a slight drizzle comes along to moisten it all up. That is unbelievably slippery. Heavy rain is much better, as it more or less washes it away instead.
As a british rail freight guard, I have had problems with leaves and a 30 wagon coal train has come to a standstill as it entered the slow so blocking both fast and slow tracks giving everybody a headache.
I’m going to admit I thought I knew the score already on this one - wheel spin. Call me smugins. However (now call me Uriah Heep) I had not realised the, clearly dangerous, possibility that mushed-up leaves can result in a train become invisible. So, another fascinating - and informative - video from the pen/camera of Mr Hazard.
Sadly the story has been a little over simplified,yes it is true that a train can disappear from the system but in today's computer controlled railway it has become vital that all trains are tracked as they move along their route.
If one becomes lost from the system the computer drops the ball and puts all the signals back to red and awaits devine intervention from the one poor signaler that can pick up the pieces to get the job running again, this poor individual can be dealing with tens of miles of tracks and multiple train's all at the same time , sadly if one goes astray he no longer has the privilege of looking out of the signal box windows to check on its progress through the various track sections using his mark one eyeballs,so much for centralised control of signaling .
London Underground also have sandite trains as well as Network Rail. The Central, Piccadilly and Metropolitan have special trains that spray the tracks with sandite during these months. The Central and Piccadilly have 2 trains (1 for each open section of the line) while the Metropolitan has 1 that covers the line from Neasden and all destinations further west than Neasden (Uxbridge, Amersham etc.)
The other thing was, back in steam days it was very rare for trees to be allowed to grow anywhere within the boundary. Embankments and cuttings would be completely clear of vegetation. These days there're trees all over the railways.
That's because the men who traditionally maintained the track, fencing and vegetation have been replaced by mega machines which only look after the track.
Trees are used as a natural sound barrier for nearby housing which probably didn't exist in the age of steam
The steam engines also helped to self-regulate vegetation as the hot cinders would set it on fire before it could grow much. This sometimes becomes apparent nowadays when steam specials run and cause lineside fires. Trackside vegetation has increased noticeably over the years, especially in rural areas. A bit frustrating because nice views disappear in summer, so that March and April may now be the best times to travel lines and enjoy good views in sunshine.
Hi Jago from Spain. Thanks for an explanation to those who did not previously know about the story behind the problem. You will have to do the "Wrong type of snow!" next
We've already had that - powdery snow getting into the points mechanisms!
Nope - getting into the electrical systems of the power units.@@pilnes
@@alejandrayalanbowman367 Also blocks air intakes causing the motors to overheat.
I can remember reading reports of trains in Adelaide, South Australia being affected by Portuguese Millipedes making their home on the track, getting squashed and reducing traction. The Portuguese Millipede is an introduced pest in Australia and interestingly the first report of the invasive species in South Australia is in my home town of Port Lincoln in 1953, likely via an overseas ship visiting the port.
It is true - a colleague was shipped over to Australia to investigate following an incident. At that time the problem was the use of DC track circuits with , effectively, the wrong power supply/battery arrangement. I believe that some high voltage pulse Track Circuits were installed to break through the compressed millipedes 😄
A footnote to this video: The recent RAIB report on the collision just outside Salisbury in 2021 points to leaf contamination on the rail as one of the immediate causes of the collision. I'm keeping this document to wave at people who complain about this as a cancellation reason. It's an interesting read.
Please tell me why it's impossible to find the identity of the GWR driver responsible?
@@mantasr Because the cause was not down to the driver, it was down to leave. There is no advantage to naming and shaming the driver.
@@mantasr "responsible" seems an odd word to use here on a number of levels - not least, because it was the *SWR* train that went through the red signal. Secondly, unless it's a very clear-cut case, if you're looking for causes of an incident and how not to make it happen again, assigning individual responsibility is very rarely useful, and is often decidedly harmful. This is because it prevents you from addressing structural issues (in this case, that NR weren't looking for rail contamination as often as they could, for example). When complex systems with safety interlocks fail, it is rarely one thing that has gone wrong, or one person who directly bears responsibility. Thirdly, even in fields that are much less safety-critical than rail, it's good methodology to anonymise incidents or investigations or whatever one calls them. This is to minimise the potential impact of politics, favouritism, etc. So I don't totally understand why you'd *expect* to be able to find the name of the GWR driver.
@@mantasr The GWR train was where it was supposed to be. It was hit by an SWR train that had over-run signals because te line had not been treated, and because the line was unexpectedly extra-slippery because of a recent heavy shower. The SWR driver, who had worked for the railways for sixty years, was badly injured and has now retired.
@@mantasr GDPR? Not blamed, or 'responsible', so no publicity. Read the RAIB report
A friend I lost contact with is originally from the Portsmouth area. I once found him a birthday card with a steam train travelling in autumn (where the US has less issue with leaves, but still has the same problem). He did find it incredibly funny because I had heard about this for years.
less problems? i argue we have more! it’s common on multiple lines to have delays due to the leaves, with lines from Maine down to Virginia and the Carolinas being impacted by the leaves….especially the Hudson River valley lines, Lakeshore Limited, and Capitol Limited/Pennsylvanian getting impacted multiple times from September on through December due to the keaves
Many thanks for this video Jago
You have explained why the track maintenance vehicle makes SO MUCH NOISE when it passes out house next to the railway!
I work in a toc control room, and it annoys me no end when people joke about something as silly as a leaf on the line being the cause of a cancellation, we had to remove a train from service just yesterday because of suspected wheel contamination causing a track circuit failure, it was potentially a massive danger to have it running
I'm well used to leaves on the line being the reason for a delay at this time of year, but once on a rather windy afternoon, I heard the announcer at Bristol Temple Meads announce a delay due to a gazebo on the line.
I hope this video gets wide viewership, there's a lot of people needing to hear this one
The caption of this video has unlocked a core memory, and I am currently sobbing like a child...
Leaves on the line, falling so slow
Like tiny fragile shells drifting in the foam.
Little soldier boy, come marching home
Brave soldier boy, come marching home
Have a heartfelt hug from a total stranger...
Same.
As a mainline driver, I can confirm a good slide (even at very low speeds) gets your attention and gets you sitting bolt upright very quickly! And I thank you for covering this topic 🍁🍁🍁👍🏻
God that must be the equivalent of aquaplaning in a car...not a nice experience
You know, Jago, the reason I watch your channel, besides being a railway nerd, is that I love the atrocious puns you often use as an outro.
Crushing leaves releases pectin, the same protein that’s used to jellify fruit pulp into jam. Pectin can also solidify into a very hard & slippery surface when allowed to dry, with most leaves taking as much as half a year to break down into soul. Leaves on the line is a very serious excuse, and way worse for trains to deal with than snow or ice.
I love the idea that leaves break down into soul - quite poetic!
Jago,taking a leaf out of your book,on Autumnal antics,you have gone on a slippery slope! Raily got the puns,I hope!! Thank you,for another side excursion on a leafy,and grunge subject! Thank you 😇 😊! Lol!! Thanks 😊!
I've seen the R.A.T. unit (rail adhesion train) nipping up and down the Met line for some weeks now. It's a converted "D" stock train but looks at first glance like a beloved "A" stock. As a result, people have got quite excitedly nostalgic...until they realise.
Thanks for dealing with the problem. It has often occurred to me that the problem is exacerbated by early train routes being placed in cuttings so that the more refined classes would see fewer trains. The cuttings then had trees beside and over them, and hence more leaves on the track. This refusal to see trains as lovely is part of the HS2 tunnel skyrocketing costs owing to tunnels where trains will not interfere with Buckinghamshire (and other county) beauty.
Bonus at the end of this excellent episode was seeing the Central Line platform at Greenford with the semaphore signal on the adjacent Chiltern rail line. 👏👏👍😎
Thanks for your humerous explanation! You may rest assured, though, that this problem is not only plaguing British railways. Over here in Germany (and I assume any other country located in a temperate zone) it‘s just the same every autumn and we, too, have those people sniffing at that presumably lame excuse. Next time I see such a comment I‘ll send them right to this video.
Indeed! It happens also in the Netherlands. See also my other post.
humerous funny bone
So what happened to the ancient ad by the Deutsche Bundesbahn (Alle reden vom Wetter - wir nicht!)?
It happens everywhere, but I suspect every country thinks it a problem unique to them!
Just this past weekend, I was helping with one the steam locomotives at the Illinois Railway Museum, and noticed a pipe hanging down directly over the rail, just behind the rear-most driver. Turns out that directs steam at the railhead. Perhaps that would wash things off. I know that sometimes old steam locomotives were used to burn weeds off the right of way, also.
I thought Leaves on the Line was a platform cafe selling hot tea...
You forgot the "Swedish scrubber" - wire brushes that, as they wore down, allowed the mechanism to short on the third rail!
I'm not sure if it's a Sandite train but I have been seeing a Network Rail cleaning unit going past my window an awful lot over the last couple of months (Certainly feels a lot more common than it has been the last 10 years or so)
Also, my level of nerdiness must be off the charts because I just *had* to tab in and out of the video multiple times trying to figure out which Great Western locomotive was on screen at 3:03 😆
(It was the Saint class 'Lady of Legend' in case anyone else was wondering)
I've seen her at the Severn Valley Railway.😊
An interesting fact regarding sand causing loss of detection by the track circuits; a train fitted with sanding equipment must have a minimum of six axles following the axle that receives the sand, six axles being enough to either crush or displace the sand sufficiently to keep the track circuit showing occupied. This meant that Pacers could not be fitted with sanding equipment because they only have four axles. Some low speed crashes did occur due to this rule, there was one at Exeter St Davids I think.
Apart from the interesting stuff about the various ways to combat the LOTL issue, what I enjoyed most about this video was all the different examples of locos you showed us Jago. Cheers ! 😎👍
The track circuit problem is one we actually have had many times this autumn in the Netherlands, since for some reason sandite has barely been sprayed on the tracks this year. I feel like almost every week I hear of a train passing over a level crossing that was still open. Also there's actually a low use passenger line that Prorail, the owner of the infrastructure, has decided to shut down for the season.
Not being able to stop is also an issue, yesterday even there was a near miss at a station where an intercity service with braking issues almost crashed into the rear of another train. Luckily it was avoided, but still.
Autumn is the time of year when the Rail Head Treatment Trains come out of aestivation. It always perks me up a bit when they appear.
The lungfish of the railways.
New word to me. Thank you.
They've been at my local depot daily for the last week. I'll always walk by them on the way into the office
Nice use of a rare word. Kudos.
Very interesting video indeed, Dear Jago. Albeit so simplistic in nature. How ever the simpler things in our lives often get ignored or just
overlooked whilst they still hold their place in the big, overall picture. I recall the steam engines of yesteryear being fitted with sand boxes
for use where slippage occurred on steep gradients thus improving traction. But I have not been aware of the problems encountered in
the UIK with leaves being turned into greasy mush that create a safety hazard. Black ice may cause a problem in parts of south eastern
Australia but unheard of here in Queensland. Thanks again. Every video you make appeals to me. I eagerly await them.
I love the story about how "ground caterpillar" on the tracks caused problems for traction in Australia!
In case someone wonders -- this sort of thing can be a problem on the US side of the pond, too, but much less so -- for two reasons. First place, almost all locomotives have sanding gear (often automatic) -- and use it. The other is the much greater axle loadings usually involved (squish!). Back in the day, though, the Budd RDC cars, which had a light axle loading, caused all kinds of trouble (usually with signals, but also stalling or sliding)
"And that is where I'll 'leaf' it. Insert collective groan. On the other hand, it wasn't bad enough to see yourself out. Keep up the good work.
Brilliant as usual, but even more so this evening, this is one of those subjects that passes by without notice yet is critical! Many thanks for such an erudite coverage of the topic👏
5:03 - Ah, memories - Greenford on the Central Line, my old station when I lived in London for a year in the 90s.
I remeber looking at photos of the steam era, and trees and other vegetation are vigourously cut back..nowadays, shrubs and tress are growing much closer to the line...so maybe thats why leaves on the line are much more of a problem now...
Also in the steam era, sparks from the chimney would regularly set fire to leaves and trees by the lineside, removing the cause of the leaves on the line problem.
What an important subject to make a video on. And one that gets overlooked, yet such a profound problem for the railways. I’m not surprised it was you that made it. Well done and thanks
Thanks again Jago..it ' leaves ' us viewers much more informed about this age old train problem.
I remember watching ‘Going Underground’ and learning about this. Thanks for the explainer on Sandite. How interesting!
How exciting! The foot crossing between Osborne Road and Hillview Ave! Those miseries at Network Rail closed the other 2 on this line.
The technical phrase is Low Rail Adhesion. The Tyne Wear Metro suffers from this a lot, even without leaves.
I always wondered why we dont have the same problems in Germany, now I know: For a long time we have been slowly changing from track circuits to wheel counters for train detections. Small sensors count the train axles when entering and leaving a track section and if the number matches the whole train has cleared the section. If you dont rely on track circuits for critical safety data, leafs on the are much less problematic, even though they might still cause small delays due to more careful acceleration and braking.
The same here in the UK we are gradually changing to axle counters now, especially on main lines and busy commuter routes.
An even bigger problem with track circuits is automatic signalling, where a build up of mush can actually stop signals reverting to danger, thus allowing another train into the section automatically.
Leaves on the pavement is a problem too, I nearly slipped today running to catch my bus.
Not to mention on cycle tracks.
The exact same problem exists here in Finland, as well as snow causing the same issue during winter. People always bitch about the railways apparently still haven't figured a way to deal with a problem that occurs for literally half the year. Then again, it's not like motorists are any better, considering "winter surprises motorists" is a standard news headline that appears like clockwork once a year (you'd think they'd be used to winter coming by now, considering it happens every year, but seems it always comes as a surprise).
Ever since I watched "The Trouble with Mud" in Thomas the Tank Engine/read "Leaves" in The Railway Series, I have always respected the excuse of "leaves on the line".
In The Netherlands we have a saying that as soon as the leaves fall, the railways fail.
Genuinely cleared that (mush) up. Thanx Jago.
We used to have some Class 501 units up here with Merseyrail as Sandite units (I think they were reclassified as Class 936). Very odd seeing slam door stock potter about when the weather demanded, not at all like the units we were used to.
Yes, leaves are a "hazzard" of the railway.
Thank you, Mr H, all most informative. (That's all most ... not 'almost' ... just in case you were wondering, or pondering, or ... ) Entirely to your usually high standard. Where would we be without you, I ask myself. Actually, I've just asked your readers. Simon T
There’s been a massive increase in the Sandite/water spray trains on the Southampton to Portsmouth line as of late, they’re neat little things
"I will _leave_ it for today."
I felt your groan even as you said it!
Love Mr hazards videos. So informative with that audable chocolate voice. I wish your were my teacher in secondary school, would been a straight A student ❤
That last pun... I'll leave it there ;) Great explanation, Jago! Never thought that this happened!
In the steam age, vegetation next to the tracks was kept low due to the fire hazard. After the withdrawal of steam traction, the vegetation regrew and now we have trees directly next to the tracks. It looks great and has all the benefits of green vegetation for the global and local climate, but causes operational problems, as you pointed out.
There is also the problem that some wheels, due to lack of friction when braking will lock up (despite anti-lock systems) and get scraped along the track forming flats meaning, if they are bad, that the train has to be taken out of service to get them turned on a wheel lathe. This reduces the number of trains available for services.
you cant forget the new leaf blower pacer that was made a few months ago
I was always pleased to see the RAT (Rail Adhesion Train) on the Met Line as it was the last A-stock train running. I'm not sure what they're using now.
Thanks for this, I live and work near to the London to Norwich line, I have often seen the sandite train and wondered what it was doing.
After the first few lines of rhyming, I totally thought this whole video was going to be a poem 😀
Hi Jago, please don't ever leaf out the funny puns, whatever you do!
I used to live next to the ECML and always wondered what those noisy grinding trains going past during the night were for- my dad called it the Hell Train😂thanks for the info, Jago!
This isn’t the explanation for what you have described = that would be a rail-head milling train ~ it grinds a very thin layer off the top of the rail-head giving commuter trains a smooth ride
My commute to/from Teddington involved a change at Twickenham on to the Kingston loop via Strawberry Hill.
On one occasion the leaf clearing train broke down on the Kingston bound track adjacent to Strawberry Hill depot. We sat at Strawberry Hill for a while as the powers that be decided what to do. Just as I was going to get out and walk the rest of the way, the guard announced that we were going to pull into Fulwell station, where the driver would change ends and reverse back on to the line towards Waterloo.
My supervisor at the time was a tedious git who'd crack the same "joke" every time I was late due to a problem with the train... "Wrong kinda leaves on the line? Huh, huh."
This time I was ready.
"Nearly. Wrong kind of leaf blower on the line."
When i saw the 'leaves on the line' legend i immediately thought of Reginald Perin. "Sorry Im late CJ, orphans on the line at Sudbury ".
I had thought it was just an axle loading and adhesion thing with some modern trains being lighter than a steam engine so thanks for the bigger picture.
I put an old 1d coin-about 32mm diameter by 1mm or so thick- on tram rails. Since this had been the fad on the last days of service when a lot of places gave up their trams around the 50's, I wanted to try it with the new generation of trams. The tram noticeably bounced as it pretzelled and ejected the coin but it didn't half make me jump as I just assumed (ha!) that it would go through it like a knife butter.
I'd never heard (or even thought) of the track circuit issue re: sand, but it makes perfect sense...This is why i am subscribed
One observation about steam trains, leaves and vegetation...
The steam train is, to some degree, self-maintaining in this area because of the tendency of embers from the smokestack to cause trackside fires (not necessarily large ones) which controlled the vegetation. In our climate (UK) these tend to burn out quite quickly but would nonetheless reduce trackside vegetation - see 50s photos of UK trains and the grass covered embankments - no trees or Japanese Knotweed there!
In the USA, large areas of the country have very hot, dry Summers and the early trains used the big 'diamond' or 'ballon' smoke stacks to catch more of the embers and reduce the risk of bigger fires in forests and across the plains.
Presumably, in later years some clever contraption was designed to achieve the same effect in modern locos.
Maybe we should run more mainline steam excursions each year to keep the vegetation under control?
On our tram network the sandy method is still in use and on high rail (not embedded in the streets) they burn the leaves under the rails after a passage of the vacuum cleaner tram…
Sometimes-on the gradient up a small hill -I thought “I should go out to help push the tram”…
Nobody has commented what I was thinking: Why not send workers out to clear the leaves? Wouldn’t this be the simplest solution? You could send them out after leaves have been reported to control by a driver or a track inspector, or if there are issues at the signal box, they could be sent out. Or if that area is covered by CCTV, you could send workers out after seeing it on the screen?
That would require staff, something the railway doesn't have enough of!
Actually in the event of an unreliable track circuit all traffic does not need to be halted - module TS11, section 15.1/2/3 cover the procedures. 3-5 working is common in problem TCB areas, which itself can lead to delays.
Apart from obvious breaking and accelerating issues, in many ways the biggest concern when a track circuit is unreliable/failed to operate, is for instance the potential for an associated stop signal reverting, or level crossing not operating correctly (I’m simplifying hugely).
Also, in my neck of the woods, NR uses high-pressure water jets only - no sandite. But then this can also cause problems when it removes lubricant, as well as leaf mulch, at points and crossovers.
Everyone scoffs, but honestly it’s no joke.
That's why they are not supposed to water jet through S&C.
@@ivorwhitecar Yup, they shouldn’t, but they do.
Many a bored commuter's life waiting for the service up to town has been brightened up by the passing of the leaf cleansing train in all shapes, ages, sizes and colours, though yellow seems the most popular.
And more than a few irritated commuters have sat in a railway coach with the loud banging of flat spots on the wheels (caused by sliding along the track with locked wheels due to brakes being full on, often during the leafing season). I don't know if its still a problem, but back in my commuting days, trains often used to get withdrawn from service due to flat spots being repaired in the Autumn leading to delays due to stock shortages.
In the days of steam, the hot blast from the chimney and regular lineside spark burn back and fires used to control a lot of vegetation overgrowth.
I was hoping for some footage of the LT “RAT”s , vintage stock (a 1959/62 tubes stock train and a D78 subsurface train) converted to Rail Adhesion Trains, both getting plenty of use at this time of year.
Brilliant. Thanks for that. You are the leafy pun to kickstart my day.
4:44 aye its my local station! gonna be taking a train from there tomorrow!
I could be wrong, but I thought compressed leaves eventually carbonise, turning into something akin to Teflon, making it much worse than just "slippery mulch".
"But why don't they have these problems in other countries?"
Short answer: they do!
Very good Jago @ 4:50 "And that is where I'll "Leave" it for today" - that is my kind of joke Jago 😄🚂🚂🚂