The Northern City Line: The Tale of the Big Tube
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 เม.ย. 2023
- The Underground line that isn't an Underground line, the Tube that's a train. The Northern City line must be one of the oddest Tube lines ever.
Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/jago...
Patreon: / jagohazzard - บันเทิง
Jago should get an honorary PhD for the level of research he puts into these videos.
He’s certainly no Wikipedia narrator
And a knighthood
@@erik_griswold Arise Sir Jago DeHazzard
Can you imagine if we could connect all of Jago’s work together? An absolute amazingly stunning encyclopaedic work. I look forward to each release.
Amen!
In 1975 I was in London and had go from Tooting to Kings Cross. The disaster had happened a week or so earlier. When the doors opened at Moorgate there was a very hot wave of disinfectant laden air which rushed through the train. We seemed to stop for a long time but I remember thinking "how can anyone work down here to clear the debris in this heat". It was unbearable just sitting in a tube carriage. Even at Kings Cross the air in the train was still warm and all I could smell was disinfectant for the rest of the day.
Some things stay with you a long time after the event. I hope such things can never happen again.
always a good idea for Kings X to change at Stockwell for the Victoria
I've clicked "like", but obviously I don't like the disaster - just giving respect to your experience. :/
For what it's worth they sped up the installation of a system (which is often called "Moorgate Control" although its existence predated the crash) where trainstops would incrementally ensure the train is slowed at the entrance to a terminus platform - trainstops which will cause the train to apply the emergency brakes if tripped are lowered out of the way on a timer, such that if the train is going too fast the timer won't have been reached and the trainstop will trip the tripcock on the train, applying the emergency brakes automatically. A similar thing was later fitted on the mainline with TPWS loops. And of course more recently automatic operation has been fitted on a lot of tube lines which should provide even more protection against this sort of thing. So hopefully indeed nothing of this sort should happen again in the UK.
Actually, likely that everyone knew the cause of the accident. It's still a persistent problem (Chalfont & Latimer near miss 2020).
From it, yes, tripcock system and safety buffers. Also, rotations on short route workings. And investment in health and safety, and risk assessment, oversight of working conditions.
The line was forced back in tunnel under Finsbury Park, with a further connection up to the goods yard, now filled in.
That was terrible. If it was like that at Moorgate a week or so later, I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like on the Northern Line platforms directly below directly after the incident. They must have suspended the main Northern Bank Branch service surely? Moorgate's Northern Line platforms were redecorated a few years afterwards, a plaque in the booking hall remains in reference to the disaster.
One of the most underrated commuter rail systems. Yeah it's run down, but the size of the rolling stock, cross platform transfers and how deep into London you get are some points in its favour
It's good that it's regained a weekend service after an absence of several years, since 1986.
Exactly right. You can get to the Bank end of the City of London without using the tube.
@@hairyaireyAnd with just one simple cross platform interchange at Highbury and Islington, the Victoria Line will whisk you into and out of the West End, or to Stockwell and Brixton .
@@ianmcclavin I had never thought of that, I usually just went down the stairs to the Victoria Line. Most times I was on the platform of Kings Cross underground at the same time the train I had just departed from was arriving in the station.
@@hairyairey Yes, more convenient changing between those two lines at Highbury than via the stairs /escalators, etc at Finsbury Park and less walking involved than King's Cross.
Living in Highbury, my grandfather was a driver on this line before the First World War. He died on the Somme during the war, and his name is on the Metropolitan Railway war memorial at the eastern end of platform 5 at Baker Street station.
Growing up in Highbury, I recall the standard stock in use in the 1950s, and the advent of the Victoria Line in 1968.
The white rectangle?
miserable rainy dull London, please be sure to get plenty of shots when its sunny to cheer us up, thanks
See what John Rogers has found for the walks
Drayton Park is notable in having a changeover from overhead wires to third rail. It's quickly done during the dwell time at the station. It's an echo of the old change pits used for trams changing over from conduit to overhead wires and back. Tramway change pits: now there's a subject for a video.
The same thing happens at Acton Central on the North London line of the Overground. On the West London line it happens between Shepherds Bush and Willesden Junction, in the middle of nowhere.
Same happens between Farringdon and City Thameslink. Although the Overground between Euston and Watford Junction has dedicated third rail platforms at Euston (10 &11) it does go into other platforms at peak times by switching to overhead power. I think from Queens Park onwards, others will know for sure.
There's an interesting fact about the trains on this line. Because the tunnels are so narrow, there's no room to exit on the sides in an emergency if the train gets stuck in the tunnel; the only exit is from the front and back. So when they were bringing in the new rolling stock a couple of years ago, they couldn't use the same ones as on the rest of the Great Northern line; they had to develop a special variant with those emergency doors at each end, and the driver compartment itself has to be offset to the side to make room.
Interesting that they didn't need to do that for the East London line. I don't imagine those tunnels are much wider
That's pretty much the same for all Underground lines though. All tube stock have emergency doors at the front and back. But you are correct about the class 717. It's the only variant of the class 700 series (used for Thameslink) that has a door at the cab ends.
@@mdhazeldine Aren't you 'supposed' to be able to exit on the side of tube trains in an emergency? The tunnels are really narrow, but I always used to think those walkways on the side were for that purpose, never given it much thought however
@@lorddiegocosta3307 The walkways at the side only exist on modern sections of tunnel like the Jubilee Line extension and the Elizabeth Line, but there's not a single model of "Underground" stock that doesn't have an emergency door at the front. Even the Jubilee Line trains need doors because they still have to run through the older, smaller tunnels. In London, the only trains that run through long tunnels without front doors are Thameslink and Elizabeth Line trains. Those tunnels are all bigger.
@@mdhazeldine and the DLR!
Probably the Met only took the line on because they didn't want anyone else stealing the lucrative traffic between the GN line and Moorgate via the Met's Widened Lines.
The curious 4th rail layout, with positive one side and negative the other, only worked because the trains couldn't be turned round, so the positive shoes were always on one (west) side of the train and negative on the other. The CSLR originally had an off-centre conductor rail (because a central one would foul the coupling gear) and again this was practical because the service was a simple shuttle.
Back in 2013, a driver on the Northern City discovered someone had driven an auger (drill bit), about a foot in diameter, into the tunnel near Old Street from a building site above. Neither the Council's Planning Department, the surveyor, the architect, nor the company that did the test soundings had realised the line was there - until the operator of the drilling machine had a visit from a very irate Network Rail official. They had checked with London Transport, but not with Network Rail. And of course, it wasn't on the Tube Map! The RAIB report (google RAIB Old Street 2013) has a diagram showing that 19 pilings were to have been driven right through the northbound tunnel!
The extraordinary thing about that isn't that they lost an auger but they sent another one down. When they lost that one they then dropped metal rods into the hole too! It's amazing that they didn't hit a train.
Not sure why the polarity of the shoes would be important. I suppose if you were charging lead-acid accumulators from the line, you would have to switch them over, but I can't think of anything else polarity-specific in use at the time.
Hello Jago, I remember the Moorgate train crash in 1975. I watched the harrowing news coverage at the time. Many years later, the name Moorgate occurred and I borrowed the book “Moorgate Anatomy of a Railway Disaster” by Sally Holloway from my local library. I still imagine images of the little 1938 stock train running through the station with its motors under power into the dead end tunnel. The terrible loss of lives and the heroic efforts by the emergency services to rescue those still alive and to recover the dead under increasingly deteriorating conditions in the train and the tunnel.
💔
So that's part of why the Victoria line was implemented so well in creating cross platform interchanges even on a tight budget. I still think that subject deserves its own video.
"You are the British Rail to my unwanted tube line" perhaps?
The terminus platforms at Moorgate have always felt kind of spooky to me. The latest modernisation may have made things a but different, but it's impossible not to think of what happened down there
I always exit to the mid placed escalator rather than find the far end
That big fire?
@@longiusaescius2537No. A train crashed into the buffers at Moorgate in 1975. It’s mentioned in the video.
The King’s Cross fire was in 1987.
The underground platforms and passenger tunnels on the NCR are featureless and creepy.
I used to take the Northern City from Moorgate to Alexandra Palace in the mid 1990's. It always tickled me that Moorgate still had Platform Guards with whistles, who would give a shrill blast before a cry of, "All Aboard!" and the doors closing.
Any guard shouting 'all aboard' should face instant dismissal!
@@tooleyheadbang4239 Maybe 'guard' wasn't the correct term for the guy who stays on the platform to signal to the driver that all is ready for departure.
@@eddiewillers1 That certainly is the guard.
It's the cry of "all aboard" that should be cause for dismissal. It's a serious job, not an opportunity to play at being in Casey Jones.
Two things come out of this for me, 1) I worked at National Telephone exchange for a while which was (and may still be) directly above Moorgate station and had the crash happened an hour earlier I may well have been on the train that ran into the end of the tunnel as I used that route to get to work. 2) I travelled on one of the first scheduled services from Welwyn Garden City to Moorgate on the day they began the through service using the Class 313 multiple units. I remember stepping out of the train at Drayton Park to watch to the pantograph come down as the train switched over to third rail before entering the underground section.
I would ride it on family outings from Alexandra Palace to Moorgate for the Barbican Centre. This was with a Capital Card, the big pink tickets before the Travelcard. I loved the 313 trains. The guard would often keep the cab door open and let us look out the back of the train into the tunnel. He would explain what the controls did, and would let us sound the horn! He explained how the 313s were special having both a pantograph and a pickup from the track. He told us to watch and listen for the the train changing power source, dropping the pantograph. Obviously proud of the service, even though the the platforms were / still undecorated and unloved compared to the tube. Alexandra Palace station was a really fun place to travel from as a young kid, with HSTs whizzing through and open days at the neighbouring Bounds Green depot. We'd wave and often get a toot from the HSTs. Great days!
Thanks for taking the time to review my commute! From out in Potters Bar into Moorgate. Its great to ride on a "secret line"; so few people have heard of it. There used to be a depot (as Jago says) at Drayton Park. If you take a look there, you can still see the rails and the inspection pits below.
The northern city line is great, it’s old Network Southeast Liveries on the stations north of Moorgate feel like it had been utterly forgotten since the early 90’s. Even the condition and treatment of the footways in the underground stations feels so very strange compared to the other underground railways in London.
I first rode on the Northern City Line in 1974, in the last few months of London Underground operation, with 1938 Stock. The Drayton Park - Finsbury Park section had long since closed. Although the Circle Line platforms at Moorgate had a modern appearance, (after "burying" them under an office block; they used to be in the open air), the Northern City and the Northern Line had not then been modernised, the Northern City, complete with LT roundels on the platforms, was due to be completely redecorated on takeover by BR anyway. The 313's, which took over from the 1938 Stock, lasted from 1975 right up until their replacement by 717's about 4 years ago. The northbound platform at Highbury still just had cast iron ring tunnel segments exposed on the platform, this was the new diversionary platform built to accommodate the Victoria Line in the 60's, and was therefore just "functional." Roundels on the far platform walls just read "Highbury," instead of "Highbury & Islington."
still does have exposed tunnel segments
@@tomwilmott3426 Yes, but there's been a bit of tiling along the walls since the transfer from London Underground ownership in 1975/6. The segments are still visible overhead. Incidentally, a re-tiling scheme for the sub-surface stations on the line (Moorgate - Highbury) was undertaken in 2020/21. I thought originally that all eight platforms were being done but it seems that only at Moorgate and Essex Road were both platforms re-tiled. At Highbury and Old Street only the northbound platforms have had their tiles replaced, the tiling on the southbound platforms has just been "tidied up" or "patched up." This film of Jago's illustrates some of this.
Yippee, a "feature length" episode. Keep 'em coming, Jago.
Yet again "You spoil my plans for world domination by distracting me, Mr Hazzard", whilst gently stroking a random fluffy animal......
Hazzard...Jago Hazzard
*cue the music*
The London transportation system is such a wonderful bodge. It's amazing that it works at all, much less that it works so well.
I've recently been into the idea of rail development as a powerful tool for landscape history. Because rail has such an unique and identifiable form, you can see the impact on the landscape even after the infrastructure is gone. The best example I can think of is the disused industrial railways of Wales, which paint a clear picture of an exclusively extractive economy focused on moving raw materials directly to the ports for export.
But it also works in an urban context. Disused rights-of-way, old viaducts and bridges, and other examples can tell us much about previous patterns of development, and how area usage has changed and modified over time.
Part of the reason for that if I may just add my ha'porth is the need to restrict the gradients quite severely for the benefit of the steam engines. Steam engines are immensely powerful, but if you use all the power on a steep gradient, they quickly run out of steam. Furthermore, Victorian investors wishing to maximise time savings didn't want meandering railways in the manner of the canals 100 years earlier. All this meant that Britain is full of very heroic landscape work - cuttings, tunnels, embankments and viaducts to straighten the lines both in plan and elevation.
@@1258-Eckhart It's all part of the landscape, heroic or pedestrian.
That power station replaced Bridge Mills opened c1854 by my ancestors. A canal basin was filled in and the bridge was replaced with an early example of concrete bridge construction.
A very interesting line indeed.
I noticed on this line, there are still many holdovers from its days under Network SouthEast. Most notably at Essex Road, the only deep level "tube" station to not in any way be connected to the Tube (and also, only non-Tube station to have a spiral staircase that's probably the height of a fifteen story building, but no such automatic announcements are made at this station, also, unlike at, say, Covent Garden, there's a firedoor leading to the staircase) Another thing of interest, the tube section of this line still has a middle rail, but it's no longer on insulating pots, seems to lie there like some kind of relic.
(Also, Essex Road seems to sometimes have the vibe of "least cared about station that's underground")
Essex Road above ground is an equally fascinating place
I live a stone's throw from Essex Road, and don't use it unless I absolutely have to. Having to drag a baby buggy down there is hell! I wish it were done up to be a proper station one day!
i took this route into school for 7 years 2002-09. miss the old class 313s, impressed you had footage from inside them. as a child I lived yards from the old alexandra palace station and it always pained me that the northern heights plan was never completed. it's a fantastic line that deserves more. a bank extension does seem unfeasible, but it always seemed like it was crying out for an extension southwards, especially with the popularity of new RER/crossrail style things.
A LONG Jago about the Big Tube! 😂
To be fair, I think how the line is used now works really well. Between it and the new link to the Thameslink tunnels there's really great journey options for people coming in via the East Coast mainline.
I just wish better use was made of similar options from the West Coast mainline onto either Primrose Hill & the North London Line (video idea on the old Primrose Hill Station?) or more than just the hourly Southern service onto the West London line.
See my other comment about how many London terminal stations now available on the ECML. Since you can walk from Moorgate to Liverpool Street arguably you can include that too. I am going to ask one day.
This is one of your best. Dedicated to a specific subject but also part of a larger story that you always refer to. Thanks very much.
Teak and mahogany commuter trains - bit of a change from the current wipe-clean plastic and ironing board seats.
I've used this line for visits to Alexandra Palace on exhibition days. It's a strange feeling because the rolling stock is Siemens but there is a lot of tunnel running before it emerges into the light.
Always had a soft spot for this line.
When I first rode the line in 1978 (I now feel old), my Dad explained that the Class 313s changed from overhead current collection to 3rd rail, I was, and still am, fascinated. Dual voltage stock at the time was unheard of!
Yes Nick, the 313's were the first of the dual voltage trains. Next came the 319's when Thameslink started in 1988, 700's and others, like some Electrostars. Eurostsr trains used to do the changeover at high speed, on the approaches to the Channel Tunnel, they didn't even need to stop!!
Great research there Jago.
8 years ago I was in the process of leaving London, but before I went I decided I needed to discover this line and it’s NSE signage. I’m glad I did!! The 1975 Moorgate crash is still a mystery to many.
Back last century part of my route to work was Highbury & Islington to Old St., then for over 1 year Essex Rd instead, then back to Old St until I discover that remaining on the train to Liverpool St & then walking to Old St. was quicker than going via the North London line. The stations were dingy & dark with dank oddly smelling tunnels, so not a pleasant experience despite always being able to get a seat. It was relief after a change of residence to forego having to use it and have a 20 minute walk to work in all weathers.
This was in the BR days and I remember the livery similar to Network S.E.
I thought Marc Brunel invented the tunneling shield, Gratehead just refined the idea
I came here to say the same. There's another name worthy of mention: Peter Barlow. Barlow took Brunel's rather unwieldy, rectangular shield design and improved it, introducing a cylindrical shape, but he died before it could be built. Greathead lived long enough to actually built his design of shield (which bore an uncanny resemblance to Barlow's plans) and went on to use it successfully. Modern tunnel boring machines still bear a lot of resemblance to it.
A very nice documentary :) I'm not a Train Nerd? but history always fascinates me.
Interesting that I JUST published a video of Northern City Line and while research for it was thinking “it would be convenient if Jago had made a rail history video about it”
I'll watch that presently.
Really outstanding video. As someone from across the pond, I was hoping you would cover this subject.
One thing about it doesn’t feel like a Tube line though. The lack of advertising posters on the walls.
The Northern City Line is high on my list of lines to tick off should I ever visit London. A quirky backwater with a fascinating history, it ticks all of my boxes. As for it becoming part of the Overground, I think any plans, if they actually existed, have been put on the backburner due to TfL's finanical woes.
9:10 Goes without saying I wouldn't put that nearly as delicately!
Another educational gem, Jago! Well done! 6:00 mark: rather North American looking rolling-stock, isn't it...
Fascinating 🤨 video as always, Mr. Jago Hazzard. What an epic tale from the tube 🚇 indeed.
I always wondered by the tunnels at Moorgate ran on longer than the station. Now I know why -- they started but didn't finish an extension.
They provided for a sand drag anyway. Not that it helped much in the 1975 crash.
@@dukenukem5768 Unluckily it actually made things worse because the carriages compressed into the tunnel and the wreckage was inaccessible. But nobody could have conceived what would happen, which remains unexplained to this day.
An aside,those GN cars were modeled after American equipment! Their equivalent cars could be found on the Boston Elevated complete with center doors,and the IRT[New York],had composite cars,with similar arrangements! If I remember correctly,the Metropolitan initial electrics,were equipped with center doors also,and the later District stock was following the same path! Basically your options for rolling stock have been limited,and the conventions are pretty much used world wide! Thank you,Jago,your tangents off the main lines are really thought provoking! Thank you 😇 !
Thanks Jago for a fantastically well researched video. I had no idea about the number of different ideas/plans for this line.
Fascinating. One of my local lines, by I seldom use it - but probably should. It's easily forgotten. Thank you for the history, I never really knew how it came to be.
A fascinating article. After the tragedy of Moorgate I worked on the re-electrification of the Moorgate-Drayton Park stretch of this line.
That's was a fantastic video! Best research I've ever seen on the line. Personally don't think it should join London Overground as it is quite well-run (modern trains) atm
Yes, on some lines it's hard to see that changing to the Overground has made any different (Enfield, Chingford etc). The North/West/South/East London routes have been revolutionised by it, but from a lower base. Prefer the current GN trains to Overground trains for long journeys. And I was surprised how difficult it was to get from Highbury to East Croydon via the East London line; I had to jump ship at Canada Water and take the Jubilee to London Bridge to make my connection.
Lived my early life 5 mins walk from Essex road station - I have vague recollections of hearing the about the accident when I was 6 years old, my mum would have hidden that from me being that I was 6 years old. We did used to use that line and I certainly used to use it up to when I moved in 1997.
Essex Road was a spooky station! At one point I think it was pretty much unmanned at certain times back then.
Also, did get stuck in the lifts there once when I was young so wouldn't use them for years after!!! Just to use the stairs which were dark and dirty and quite a lot of them, that was both going up and down! Did go back to using the lifts when I was about 15!
I rode the line occasionally in the 'fifties. Very run down and spooky, especially that long winding passage at Old Street.
For the quality of this video, in terms of the research, editing and presentation, one might say that you're the one with a great head on his shoulders, Mr Hazzard.
One _might_ ....
Hat tip to Jago for the sheer volume of facts squeezed into a 15 minute video. It's the sort of thing that someone should write up for educational purposes ... Respect.
Gainsborough Studios..... where Will Hay, of Oh! Mr Porter fame, made his early films...... So a tenuous railway connection was kept....
Something of a cinderella line! A pithy and excellent video as ever.
Highbury & Islington station is my favourite on that line, as it’s the only place in London where the 80s/90s era Network South East signage meets the 00s era London Overground
Very interesting - such a detailed exposition - thank you. I would imagine that the current experiment with digital signaling on the line (a prototype for the whole East Coast Main Line) may thwart any handover to London Overground.
Nice connection between the Victoria scissors and the Finsbury Park dueling pistols!
Listening to these "plans" I am reminded of the term *"Trial Balloons".* It is a wonder that anything was built at all.
Excellent video Jago, this line has always intrigued me.
9:12 Haha it’s nice to see you putting across your point with such delicacy.
It’s worth pointing out that, even though many Londoners don’t know of the existence of this “obscure” railway line, it is extremely useful for many North Londoners. Although the London Underground (the “tube”) is much more ubiquitous in North London than it is south of the river, there is nevertheless a large part of suburban North London that has no tube service. The Victoria Line stops at Walthamstow, and the Piccadilly line only covers the far western side of Enfield Borough. Most of Enfield relies on rail services: the eastern side has the service (now operated by London Overground), running up the Lea Valley and the branch to Enfield Town. And the middle of the Borough (Bowes Park, Palmers Green, Winchmore Hill, Enfield Chase and North Enfield) has the train service talked about in this video: Stevenage/Hertford to Moorgate. Similarly, people on the eastern side of Barnet borough (New Southgate, Oakleigh Park, New Barnet, Hadley Wood) use the service from Welwyn Garden City to Moorgate.
These services are extremely well-used during weekday peak periods, and are quite well used during the day too. Though off peak passenger numbers going to/from Moorgate and Old Street may be quite low, this is because the bulk of passengers in the day want the West End, so they use the convenient tube interchanges at Highbury & Islington (Victoria Line - cross platform) and Finsbury Park (Victoria Line and Piccadilly Line). If you travel out from Moorgate you’ll see that the services pick up significant numbers of passengers at Highbury and Finsbury Park. It’s just a pity that, after investing in new trains (the old 313 stock was over forty years old when it was replaced), Govia-Thameslink decided to revert to a half-hourly service during the day, instead of the proposed twenty minute service. When the London City line was taken over by BR Eastern Region way back in the 1970s, and the 313 stock trains were new and trendy, the trains ran every 20 mins for a good few years, including on a Sunday!
Sweet wipe at eight and a half minutes.
Brilliant commentary and filming.
Had I been a Great Northern shareholder back then, I think I might have got very dizzy from then many volte-faces the company did!!!
Excellent, a line I see lots of times a week due to traveling from Seven Sisters on the Victoria Line and rarely get on t'other. Great to finally know it's whole story.
Don't forget that Great Northern Railway suburban trains didn't just reach the City via the North London Railway into Broad Street. They also ran on from King's Cross via the Metropolitan Railway's City Widened Lines into Moorgate. This may have been a factor in the Metropolitan's decision to buy the GNCR in 1913 - protecting their existing business.
Both the Broad Street and Moorgate CWL services survived into the mid-1970s, until the through running of suburban trains over the Northern City Line rendered them superfluous.
That was the case (as Thameslink), until fairly recently, when they extended the platforms at Farringdon, and that cut off access to that branch line.
@@katrinabryce Latterly only trains off the Midland line ran to Moorgate via the widened Lines - the Hotel and York Way curves closed in 1975
I travelled on the northern city line when it was pre 1938 standard stock! I'm that old!
Imagine creating a new NW-SE line mostly reusing old trackbed in North London for connecting loose ends, starting at Lothbury with connection to Bank. Going north to Moorgate and the Northern City Line to Finsbury Park, and the Parkland trackbed to Highgate. Following the Northen Line to Fincley Central, take over the branch to Mill Hill East, and relay the tracks to Edgware.
Of course this would mean tunnelling under Mill Hill due to the housing and industry now occupying the old trackbed, but still it could be a very useful line to have.
70 years to get something working? Eerily sounds like me.
Only 70?
I discovered this line many years ago when I lived in Crouch End and worked in Old Street. Used to travel to work on it, cheaper than the tube and faster. I didn't realise that it was the line that had the crash on until after I'd been traveling on the line for several years.Creepy, but less creepy when you're on a full size train.
the Great Northern RR owns the southern part of the Eastern Coast mainline. Whhooo how to keep it all straight. As a tourist visitor to London have never seen or known of this service. I find the DLR and Overground all very confusing, though recently stayed near Greenwich and became more familiar with the DLR. The Overground lines remain a mystery. This hidden line deserves an explore next time
Moorgate the forgotten London central terminus.If you have a ticket say from Newcastle to London Terminals you could technically get off at Stevenage and go to Moorgate.
Or Highbury and Islington. Highbury and Islington is a London Terminal on the Northern City Line, where it doesn't terminate, but not on the Overground, where, on the East London Line, it does terminate 🤷🏻♀.
@@katrinabryce Baker Street is also not a 'London Terminal', or so I'm told.
@@tooleyheadbang4239 Well no, because there aren't any train services that go there
@@katrinabryce Another closure.
Another part of my past gone...
Fascinating tale. Very interesting as I passed Drayton Park station at the weekend and saw it for the first time.
Thank you, Jago, for another in depth and brilliantly researched episode. It looks like the old central conductor rail has been decommissioned and the insulators removed thus lowering the rail out of the way (0:10) . Obviously it was cheaper to do this than remove it OR perhaps someone has plans to reinstate it. Well, might it come in handy sometime in the future? Who knows!
gonna assume that you made this overnight because i rewatched your original northern city line video yesterday as that is definitely how video editing works; thanks jago!
Fantastic video as always Jago 👍
Rob McKenna is a Rain God in Douglas Adams, "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". You seem to have the same effect on the weather 🤣
The 1938 stock where SO! nice and as a boy the newer sliver trains scared me.
Such a small line, yet one with a rich history, even if its final conclusion was what was supposed to happen to it in the first place. Still, excellent and informative as always
Great video thanks Jago
This should be incorporated into the London Overground system.
I agree and suggest that the West Ealing to Greenford line should too. GWR reneged on its promise of a 4 trains per hour schedule, once the service to Paddington was cut back.
72 stock had droplight windows in the side of the cabs like the 67 stock NOT doors. The 72 was a hurried manual version of the 67 auto stock which didn’t allow for the sort of redesign that would have been required to introduce cab doors to an existing body design. ( ex Northern Line train crew)
I really appreciate all of your videos but having grown up in Bowes Park this one is particularly interesting. Thank you!
Aside from the challenging engineering work, the connection from Moorgate to Cannon Street should be in the cross hairs.
Making Cannon Street a through station would remove many path-consuming movements during the peak hours, and reduce the number of platforms required at Cannon Street. Reversals at Moorgate and Cannon Street would be replaced by looping via Deptford or similar in the South, and possibly using the Hertford Loop as the Northern turn-back, by also using the ECS/relief lines from Finsbury Park to Bowes Park, to keep clear of ECML
I’ve noticed over the years that the middle conductor rail is still in place, albeit lowered. I assume this is to minimise changes needed when they converted from 4th to 3rd rail.
I'm not sure how this fits in with the story but I recall trips I used to make in the sixties (I think) with the boy next door (we must have been aged about 8 - 12 living in Tottenham) specifically to catch a steam train from a distant platform at Kings cross. I believe the train started it's journey at Moorgate and we would stay on it until Finsbury Park or Drayton Park. The latter station was a bit out of the way so we used to catch the 210 single decker red bus between FP and DP.
Many thanks Jago for yet another well-researched & well-presented video.
As someone who's lived in Barnet for over 38 years, I've used this line innumerable times to commute into Moorgate from New Barnet station.
I knew sone of its history (mainly the post-Moorgate tube disaster period), so found the rest fascinating. Cheers! 👍
It’s a very useful line. I used to live near Old Street station and used this line often when travelling to places in north London.
Two other little bits I'll leave you to do in another video: the 'other' route to Moorgate via York Road platform and the Widened Lines; and the direct access stairs from the GNC platforms at Finsbury Park to the GNR platforms above. I haven't looked to see when that was put in.
An admirable summary of the convoluted history of this line. I feel that nowadays it does a good job of its original aim of providing a City destination for Great Northern Line suburban trains, and the cross-platform interchange to the Victoria at Highbury is useful. Can't see that the Overground would be an advantage, especially as the current trains with transverse seating are nicer for long journeys than the Overground trains. Only drawback is that the service has been reduced from every 20 minutes to every half hour, and also that a fast service has never been provided via the Hertford Loop exploiting the turnround point at Gordon Hill (the only station to share a name with a famous 1970s referee and a 1970s footballer?).
As someone who's lives along this route from WGC. It's nice to see something that feels a bit more familiar on this channel
What a big tale. So many stops and starts, changes of plan and ownership. I doubt that any other line has had such a turbulent time
It seems Leslie Newson was conscientious, but the previous cases of running through stations might indicate a health issue, mini strokes or similar. There was a backup system in place, the guard's brake control panel, but the 18 year old kid guard, who was late for work, got bored and wandered away, like most young store clerks we see nowadays. I'd say that the negligent guard was the cause, by not providing the expected backup for the driver's health issue. There has been talk of airliners going to single pilot, which would be the time to stop flying.
My theory is that the roundal symbolises a lift platform and the white fenial/Spike is a lift shafts and that explains why the roundal is at the bottom of the shafts ie underground. Don't forget that lifts were ubiquitous when this was designed and bumper Harris was still alive!
You could see these trains on the open section towards Drayton Park Station from Highbury stadium on match days.
My father , an electrician (eventually electrical supervisor) who worked for London Underground between about 1954 to 1992 had to install emergency lights at the Moorgate disaster in 1975 for the emergency service personnel to be able to see what they were doing.
Unsurprisingly he never really wanted to talk about what he saw. It was a horrible mess and extremely disturbing.
Having a new Overground line from Gordon Hill to Moorgate with 4-6 tph would be great
Even better if that also gives a faster service on the Hertford Loop, it is tediously slow at present because of all the inner suburban stops. They may feel though that there isn't enough traffic to justify it. And the recent reduction from 3 tph to 2 tph hasn't helped its credibility as a suburban route.
I had a thought , a problem to the W and C and the Moorgate end of the Northern City Line are the vaults of the Bank of England. I think the Bank of England should vacate the city completely, its walls actually provide blank spaces all around its site which are not in planning talk "active streets". As Billingsgate, Smithfield and Spitalfields Markets have all moved out of London, surely sending at least the financial money and gold holdings away to say Dagenham (on an extended DLR / Improved C2C ), leaving policy in a different location - maybe the west end of Fleet Street around Kings College/LSE area in a new office ?
Few ghosts of Network Southeast in situ nice to see
Thanks again for all your research time spent.
I had the misfortune of commuting on the Moorgate line when it was run by WAGN... trains so old we often referred to them as the rust bucket line. The carriages usually only had the heating turned on in the summer with nothing in the winter - I remember melting in the summer and having to hold my feet off the metal floor of the train during the winter as the floor was so cold. We were told that the problem was the heating could only be turned on and off at the depot therefore they didn't - most likely because maintenance cost money and they weren't in the game of spending money on the trains. However, one of the fellow passengers/victims was an ex railway technician and pointed out that it was easy to turn the heating on and off as the controls were at the end of each carriage and didn't need to be done in a depot.
The service only improved when the franchise was up for contest... and quite deservedly didn't get their franchise renewed. I stopped using the line around that time and shortly after found that the replacement company immediately replaced all the carriages and service was much more pleasant...
In June 1975 I shifted into a new bedsit (do they still exist?) and noticed one of my housemates was walking rather awkwardly. I learned shortly afterwards that he'd been injured in the Moorgate crash. (Many years later he popped up in some film or news-clip revisiting the event, retelling his memories of it.)