$100,000 Neve Console FAILED in under SIX MONTHS!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- I worked my whole life to finally be able to afford a legendary Neve console. And here's my experience dealing with its failure. And how it sounds vs Reaper!
Get in on the Spectre Digital Summer Slam Super Sale at: spectredigital...
About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
Thanks for checking out my channel & please subscribe!
Remember kids, buying expensive gear doesnt make it better
And if you want to buy good stuff it is going to cost you more though.
😂😂 😂
Damn!
Where have we heard that before? Ahahaha
And not every failure is due to lack of effort. Even the most well engineered cars like konneggseigg have issues once in a while. There's literally no way to make anything tangible prefect
Absolutely nothing is built to last anymore. It’s pathetic really
if you buy a neve at Walmart and they ask if you want to add the extended warranty for $3.99 say YES!!
😂😂😂😂😂
Great laugh for the day! Hahaha!
If I’m spending 100K on a piece of gear, it better outlive my grandkids, never mind myself.
Sadly, it’ll probably last 10-15 at best. Either thru the components failing, or the software connectivity becoming obsolete.
This is why I prefer to work with non-computer stuff (except the Focusrite 18i20) and analog gear, not because I'm a tone snob, but because it can be repaired.
😂 wishful thinking
For $100k - I want the lifespan of an Egyptian pyramid!
Sony was the worst for this, which is why they lost so much market share.
We had a Neve at audio engineering school and it was never NOT broken...;) I feel you!!!
is it bad gear then?
@@AlexanderKorotkov42 fragile.. it couldn't handle the amount of users from his school it seems.
It's ticking all the boxes .
@AudioPilz was it an SAE by any chance?
The "I'm not angry, just disappointed" dad energy is overwhelming, lol.
My friend once said this was the most devastating thing her dad has ever said. She said that she has thereafter lived her life to make that he would never speak those words again. So never underestimate the power of disappointment.
@@jaakkolamminpaa7959 Been there!
Putting computers in his consoles is the exact reason why Rupert Neve was pushed out of his original company he never thought they were reliable enough and thought that they would only lead to more failures in his system and probably close to 40 years later hes still right
I agree 💯. What they're doing is exactly what you said. I think they should:
- Keep the analog console analog.
- Use ADAT or something like that to get the channel information directly to the Console and back to the DAW as an insert. Just like a regular audio interface.
- Put a stupid simple and small thumbprint Operating System in the Console that allows you to have recall; functionality nothing crazy more than that.
Why is that so hard. No, just like windows 10 Midway til now, we have to try and add everything under the sun in it. Just keep it simple.
true that
For $100,000, Neve should be shipping overnight and the swap should be 'plug and play'.
User Error isnt covered
@@dogpdsound Windows guys always blame "user error" lol Software is broken and its the user fault, classic.
Remember the joke where Gates brought everyone to the office for a good/bad news meeting. The bad thing is the world is ending tomorrow. The good news is we won't have to fix Windows...
that's....that's what he said they did...in the video...
The worst when this happens is you lose trust in it. You’re gonna cross your fingers every time you start it now and hope it will work. Forever
@@itsgmani I had the same problem with a couple of Presonus interfaces that gave me the red eye of death... Burned me away from the brand! I got a pair of Motu 8 channel interfaces for 16 analog inputs and never looked back!! Oh and they've been bulletproof for the past ten years!!!
Yeah, just like a faulty car that you are now afraid to take out.
Know this: The windows "automatic repair" has NEVER EVER repaired anyone's windows. Ever. The feature is just there to give you false hope.
I work as an IT tech at a UK university. Whenever the automatic repair option comes up on a computer I’m working on, I reach for my USB stick to reinstall Windows
I actually have had it fix an issue. Probably a drive error issue, like fixing MBR or some such. Anything beyond that, I don’t know even what it does.
Agreed, something like Macrium Reflect, Acronis, Paragon, DriveImage XML (The list goes on)
Has saved me many times.
It can fix small faults in the file system and replace missing files. That's about it.
Haha
I worked as an electrician for a massive TV production company where most of our work was OB in the early 2000s. We had 4 Digital HD trucks of the 12 in total. We had Neve consoles in all 4 of these HD trucks, as an audio nerd I was in awe of these things when i started.
Not so much the repair crew, I don't remember a single week where these desk didn't have a tech working on them. It got to a point that Neve were sending technicians to Australia almost every other month. Eventually, these consoles were ripped out & replaced with Yamaha from memory. Not as featured filled as the Neve, but reliability in TV was king.
Did you try turning it off, and then on again?
Or blowing on it?
Or employing “impact maintenance” (smacking it, hard or soft)?
Or turn it onto channel 3... Or switch it to AUX or hit input a couple of times!!!
Time to float check it.
Take it to the nearest lake and toss it in. If it floats, its fine.
really bro? xD its a console not ur gameboy
Sitting here writing this on my 12+ year old Windows PC that has been used very very much an hard and where not one part has been replaced except for a harddrive (not system drive)that i took from my previous computer which already had a number of years on it, the system drive is still the 12+ year old Samsung SSD. Also the previous computer from 2005 also runs fine with all its original parts including harddrive. This is of course as anecdotal as anyones experience, but in my experience i havent really had any big computer problems since i got windows 7 and now on windows 10 i have never even reinstalled it, its been extremely stable. In the windows XP days it was way more common with problems, i had to ghost the computer since sometimes viruses were impossible to remove and also other problems, i say that as someone that loved XP.
I avoid shady sites and "foreign" flash drives and generally never put my flash drives in other devices my own or Macs.. Usually superstable for yearrrrs!
The longevity question is absolutely key. We now live in a world where built in obsolescence is a design paradigm. For a $30 gizmo that is probably not too bad, but in the $thousands range, it is completely unacceptable.
I feel for you man!
Ikr. I know right. I had a pair of Mackie HR monitors that I have used since the late 90s that finally "died" on me a few months ago. Since I am more hobbyist than serious engineer now, I couldn't justify (to myself or my wife) spending $1500 and up for a set of monitors so I started looking at budget options. And boy, the amount of reviews complaining about a lot of these things failing within a year or two (or barely out of warranty) was frightening. I ended up buying a set of Adam A7Xs and I guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed for a few years.
It's not even designed-in obsolescence from Neve - the consequence of using a commercial operating system is that you're shit out of luck as soon as Microsoft decide it's no longer supported. You don't even get any shelter from that if you use a Mac - Apple's support window is even shorter. And, of course, you can't even update it because the hardware's going to be completely proprietary.
Please tell me nobody's connecting these things to the Internet...
Blame Taiwan - in the late 90's they fucked up some state-sponsored industrial espionage that resulted in virtually every electronic device (since most of it was made in Taiwan at that point) failing after a few months. They stole the formula for low-cost capacitors that were supposed to have a long lifespan and passed it on to all the Taiwanese factories, only the forumula they stole was actually a trap, and was designed to fail after a grace period. As a result, consumer expectations lowered to the point were we now expect electronics to stop working after a year or so, instead of lasting for decades like they did before all this went down.
@despoticmusic I couldn't agree more
@@cynicaloutlook Honestly don't blame Taiwan. Blame the corporate industry for cheap labor exploitation.
Comparatively Korean made components like capacitors & relays of the same era were also notoriously failure prone well into early 2000's products!
I know because I've had to physically replace several.
Ever hear of original Xbox consoles overtime bricking themselves unplugged sitting on a shelf?!
That's why.
Because the shotty Korean capacitors would literally swell, burst, and thus inevitably kill the PCB motherboard.
Another reason why I'd always recommend anyone who's buying a vintage tube amp, or one older than the 2010's?!!
To consider getting a modern capacitor upgrade job done. By a PROFESSIONAL though!!
I once saw some dumbass stick both hands into the back of his Sovtek MIG 50 and get zapped nearly across the FN room!!!
#deathcapacitor
.
Your first mistake.. buying a console based on a… computer. Take it back and get a 100% analog console.
Any tour on the road disagrees. 80% of digital consoles run on embedded windows, and others run on linux. Tours that run analog often have a full spare in the truck because analog consoles still have issues and need constant work.
Absolutely!
@@ddgarage7025 Is glens studio on the road? No? Wtf are you even talking about lmao
@@ddgarage7025 analog consoles d'ont have total breakdowns like digital ( except for the power source un do need a spare one ) correct me if i'm wrong digital consol need the internet or the w'ont work ???
@@Video-C No, digital consoles almost never need internet to work and it's best to keep them off the internet unless you have to (AVID S6Ls sometimes need to). No console is immune to faults but large format analogue consoles these days are old and need maintenance constantly because of their age (in the context of the touring world anyway)
I'm just saying the anti digital comments are silly and no piece of tech is immune to issues. This is coming from someone who still has a few english made analogue consoles.
"I
AM
NOT
ANGRY"
Yeah okay, and I'm the fuckin Pope! I'd be livid 😂
I've noticed that I get angry at the 'small stuff' but if something goes catastrophically to shit, I don't even get mad, I just try to figure out how to fix it and if there's anything I can do. There's like a threshold and past that point I don't even feel anger anymore.
@@rantanen1 I totally relate to getting easily frustrated, yet in major crises, being fairly calm… usually.
I bet the issue was caused by a Windows update that left the system corrupted. Perhaps the computer was turned off while updating. The only way I know it could be fixed is by recovering from a restore point, which are automatically saved so long you have this feature activated.
Is Harley Benton making consoles, yet?
Give them a few years I'm sure they'll try lol
It would run some form of Linux, as the price wouldn't cover the Windows license fee.
LOL
@@TranscendentBen And would be better for it.
Thomann are selling them, at least.
I love my LP8's neem beating them for years and they rarely ever get turned off. I'm super happy I watched your show and bought them as per your recommendations.
I think the correct response is: "My disappointment is... immeasurable... and my day is ruined."
Happy Canada Day! In all seriousness, I'm just seeing this now and hope this comment goes unnoticed so as to not re-traumatize you, Glenn. Bless you, you're always working hard for us!
As neat as the Genesys desks are... There's buying a console, and then there's buying a fly-by-wire nearly completely digitally controlled console that is mostly dead when the computer goes down. This is why I greatly prefer the approach of something like the API 2448 - fully analog board, completely optional traditional moving-faders automation as a small embedded system that also speaks MCU over USB. Their automation is great, and if it does go down, all the primary features of your desk are still working.
I'm surprised a Rupert Neve 5088 wasn't considered either. It's an analog console by the legend and deliberately isn't digital.
@@QuickQuips I'm not sure how many preamps and EQ modules Glen's Genesys has, but the 5088 configured with a comparable channel count, with preamps and EQ on all channels, is potentially in a substantially different price bracket. The 2448 is priced much closer to comparable regardless.
Absolutely. Analog equipment is repairable. I don't buy gear that requires software to work properly. Because eventually it'll be an extremely expensive paperweight
I think the genesis is a great console thing is I don’t live in England. I live here in New York much easier to service my Api love it.
wuz going to say API or RND but it is great how Glenn has outed this situation and how a computer based analog desk is two horse gallops from getting bricked. Wow! Great story.
It should have never been designed around its own computer. It should have been designed to connect to your own, and it should run without one. This is why consoles are obsolete. The console workflow and sound are not, but the consoles themselves are too much of a pain in the ass. I have Harrison Mixbus, and if my computer for that goes down, I just install Harrison Mixbus on another computer and keep going. Consoles are sexy no doubt, and probably a lot of fun, but this and other headaches people get with consoles are why many are selling and decommissioning them now.
A grievance with Neve is called a "Neve-ance".
👏😺👍🍾🙌
Get out
too soon bro wer not there yet :D
I can hear the difference on a iPhone the Neve versions are miles ahead of in the box where you can tell immediately is in the width and depth of the mix
Glenn's Lament:
"Where it's at
I got two dead computers and a microphone..."
Take me home with my Windsor bones
Do it
That was a good drum break
@@pierreblenderbuss9807too bad we couldn’t get it on tape…
@@joshuaporterfield6774if it had been an analogue mixer and tape it would have been fine….
I think I'll stick to an audio interface and a pair of 5" studio monitors if expensive equipment like this is just going to fail after 6 months...
Get a DAW controller from a great brand like ICO and you will have a nice workflow. Almost like a real mixing board
I can't believe it's not Linux-based.
With the hell that JACK, Pulse, and Linux audio in general are? I absolutely totally can believe they didn't want to touch Linux lol
It should be cross compatible eith Linux, windows and Mac
What does it help if it is maybe a hardware prob 😂?
@@Sylkis89 wdym? JACK is amazing
@@Sylkis89 I mean, I get that but it's still less of a headache than...most everything else with Windows.
Hey Glen, 6 months into a warranty is far far better than 1 day outside of the warranty!
The more bells and whistles a system has, the more possibilities of shit hitting the fan.
The phased flipped comparisons were quite interesting, really confirmed that I wasn't just imagining hearing more in the neve mixes.
Spending 100k on products that breakdown is surprisingly common right now
Time to buy a Cybertruck and double the fun.
Space truck, anyone?
Spending 100k... common...
Hey you can buy a Boing for $100,000,000 and it'll still fail you.
Hello, IT guy checking in. Supporting lab equipment with in-built computers is its own special flavor of IT hell, and I simply can't fathom buying a console with an integrated computer that isn't a standard form factor. We have so many pieces of kit that we have to air-gap from other computers cause they have an OS we can't update, plus just finding ways to keep old stuff going if/when the computer that runs the gear fails is miserable.
If you're buying high-end gear with a computer built in, the manufacturer almost certainly expects you to come to them for paid support down the road, or at least be replacing it on a pretty regular interval.
Windows is okay. I've certainly had less problems with Windows at work than I have with Macs, and tons less problems with Windows users whinging about things...That seems to be all Mac users want to do. :(
Any inkling of a faint desire to own a console down the line totally evaporated for me upon watching this. Hope it gets resolved for you, thanks for making this video and the transparency and vulnerability in it!
Looks like an hardware failure, not Windows. Actually Mac isn‘t any better than Windows…
Now you have a giant table you can't even put a coffee on.
Glennnnnnn! The commercial for your summer slam pack commercial took me back to the days of "Crazy Eddy" with prices so low he's insane!!!!!!!
Has the Neve now become the Gibson of consoles? All kidding aside, I work in IT and have seen things fail right out of the box. I always joke that the sweat shop kids overseas had a bad day when those particular components were manufactured.
Haha I have similar experiences, very expensive IT equipment failing fight after install. Linux, Windows based, proprietary OS I've seen it all.
Maybe Fender. There's a G&L equivalent with Rupert Neve Designs.
Glenn, I feel your pain man. After several 'forced obsolescence' upgrades on computer controlled hardware that completely tanked our room, I swore to use my older working gear for as long as I possibly could, even if it wasn't new and shinny anymore. And funny enough, that's the gear that's still works flawlessly every day I get to the Studio. Hoping for a quick solution for ya.
sometimes i wish i had a console, but then i remember how often the maintenance guys were working on the ones in the berklee studios. seemed like one of them was down every few weeks
ofc it was 2017-9 and the digital consoles still ran on windows xp lol
What goes wrong with them usually, sounds quite insane how often they fail?
Hey Glen. Take a week off. You grind and grind and have to remember that we will be here next week as we have been the week before. Just take a break the channel is doing good. Plus I like the out of studio content.
That's a hardware issue and not a Windows issue. Windows is more than capable of running audio reliably.
Bingo!!!
True, but absolutely nothing is built to last anymore…. It’s pathetic really
Windows is much harder to troubleshoot then mac in my experience.
Yeah, I've been on Windows since 95. I use Windows not only for my audio recording but also use it for SolidWorks, Cinema 4D, blender and Maya. I can't tell you the last time I saw a blue screen of death. Mac might be easier if you don't want to learn how to use a computer.
Windows is way harder to fix than Linux and that’s insane considering Linux is the “enthusiast” OS
Glenn, I think you did a better job in this video explaining what you meant around the Neve sounding better. After the first video I was thinking "Well, I'm totally on board with the workflow/process side of things, I can see just being way more productive or being more inspired by the way you interact with the console," but I wasn't sold on sound quality differences being specifically better or worse - I could hear the differences, but I had a hard time trying to decide if I really preferred one over the other, and I was kinda iffy on things because of that.
But going more in-depth here about it being some of the "house sound" from the design and hardware decisions being more to your (and potentially your clients/youtube audience/etc's) liking, I get it. But there's no reason we couldn't accurately model the "rounding off" from the analog circuits or any other EQ-ish effects in the hardware and get the same sort of effect in software.
Thanks for this episode Glenn!!!
Sorry to hear that best wishes for recovery !
A Windows computer is inside a Neve console... holy cow what a desaster !
For everyone saying it's a hardware issue...it's _incredibly_ rare for previously-working hardware to just fail (EDIT: I mean after six months of working perfectly, and after being burn-in tested on leaving a low-volume manufacturer). It's far more likely file corruption due to the heavy shutdown, and Windows really doesn't deal with that very well.
Embedded systems like this should be shipped with a factory disk image on a second drive, so it can be restored to factory settings at any time. Even better, they should come with the capacity for the customer to create and store their own (configured) image at any time. With the prices Neve charge for their desks, it would be a negligible additional cost, and would actually save them money in support costs, for the sake of a bit of development time and £200 on a second NVMe drive (it doesn't even need to be an expensive one, a cheap QLC drive would do the job - doesn't need buckets of endurance, since writes would be _very_ rare).
It would also save them from serious reputational damage in terms of the lack of business continuity experienced by their customers.
That's just not true. Yes, the likelihood of hardware failure goes down after a couple of months, but most hardware that fails, fails within weeks and months of being first used, not seconds. Hell, I've had a GPU die two years into use before, without OC or any shenanigans like that. A friend currently struggles with a faulty GPU, which is about 1 year old.
Infant mortality of hardware can easily range within months of first being used, and saying "it's incredibly rare" is just false. Especially with modern production, where devices and electronics are tested enough to relatively safely rule out that it will be broken upon unboxing. But of course you can't see into the future and tell if a tiny little part on the device is gonna fail 6 months down the line.
For sure Glenn is aware of UPS
Kontron uses EMMC in their default devices, and has everything soldered in (as most tablets have,) That is not OK for something like a console controller. It should have an off the shelf ITX board for embedded systems with changeable ram/storage and use eDP to drive the display.
It's not even a LITTLE bit true that hardware failure is rare. Where are you getting that from? Hardware failures after several months are fairly common, if not even expected. That's why having backups and restore points for job-crucial components is as critical as it is.
@@EivindFalken He's running a UPS a lot better than you can buy at Staples, and a power conditioner unit, for sure.
The Neve Support Team is great. They paid shipping both ways US to England for an issue with my 88m. It cost them more to ship it than it did to make it.
This kind of form factor for a device is designed to exist in another era. Computers didn't exist or were much more serviceable, studios had resident electronics technicians who worked full time on maintenance, service manuals and individual parts were much more accessible without any of this corporate BS. As amazing as they are, these consoles are pretty much unfeasible to own and use professionally and dependably today.
Thanks for this video. For so many reasons. Like all of us, I'm looking forward to seeing this settled for you.
I listened to your A/B mixes on my Dynaudio 5M5a monitors. I really liked the Neve mixes. If those Reaper mixes were mine, I'd be stoked AF..... andI'd still want a Neve. 😂
I'm an IT manager and I manage 100 windows based computers... I rarely encounter failures with windows... but I also harden the systems and have management software in place to ensure daily operation. I am not sure how the neve operates but powering the computer on and off is not something I personally recommend. Thank you for validating the IT profession... You go to a mechanic when your car is broken... you go to the doctor when you are sick... Hire an IT professional to ensure your computer equipment is operating at peak performance. You have taught us so much about recording... and you probably have decent computer knowledge but no man is an island...
This is kind of an outdated perspective. I mean, obviously I'm not going to be doing surgery, but I also don't go to a doctor for every little sniffle. The specialist society is on its way out, and I think this is something we should encourage.
Specialization is how we ended up with lawyers...
@@gunslingersymphony5015 I'd be interested to know what you do for a living... your whole statement is a huge contradiction. Doctors and lawyers are very specialized education. I've been in the IT world for 29 years and can tell you there are very very specialized fields/certifications. As a matter of fact, just because I am an IT manager doesn't mean that I don't hire engineers to do the heavy lifting on projects if I don't have suitable skills to accomplish the task.
@@RobertModica Doctors are specialists. Law is a specialization that only exists because of itself, to the detriment of everyone who is expected to follow it.
Specialization is something to be dealt with out of necessity, not to be maintained as standard practice. One of the greatest advancements we've ever made has been to collect our knowledge and share it publicly. I've learned more from the internet than any school/university, and-apart from the basics that I had down after elementary school-it's been significantly more useful, overall. As far as what I do for a living, I'm a millwright, and I'm currently working on getting into things like web development and cybersec. As much as I love risking my life every time I go to work, AND having to be able to do everyone else's job as well as everything mechanical, AND having to make some engineer's pipe dream actually work in the real world, I really want to experience this whole "work-from-home" thing I keep hearing about.
Also, I'm sorry; I don't see how my previous statement was a contradiction.
@@RobertModica I should add that I respect your position, and don't believe that specialization is, as of yet, outdated. Rather, I believe that being well-rounded should be encouraged.
@@RobertModica I'd also add that I had a nice long response before that which wasn't posted. I'm try to reorganize and retype my thoughts at a later time.
About 20 years ago most cctv brands launched LINUX embeded systems, that still operate almost flawlessly. Those systems are, not just more reliable than windows, but also CHEAPER. Neve NEEED to avaluate that O.S.
Geat content, Glen keep it going!!!!greeting from Chile.
Everytime I think I want a console, I remind myself of all the times I sat around waiting for the studio techs to fix them when I was working in different studios. My perspective comes from a hobbyist mindset though. I am not doing this for a living anymore.
Glenn, I hope you get it all taken care of, and can get back to your normal work flow with ZERO issues in the future.
why do you even need one? Just get one of those API lunchboxes and use channel strips. Should have the same effect..
Another reason I'm ever-impressed by my 1970s MCI console; I've got VCA+mute automation going from my computer thanks to some Eurorack CV converters, and have zero worries about future computer compatibility. There's only a few digital logic chips (and I do mean logic, not CPUs) that are easily replaceable if needed, but that's it!
Why do you not have a bootable image stored for this eventuality?
shouldn't have to have one to keep a fucking MIXING DESK running of all things. SHOULD. NOT. ideally he would have one laying around for general use but if you don't fuck around with your computers more than normal use, you wouldn't know to have one and often won't need one. regardless of what tools you think are prerequisites for what, i think it's stupid to have windows running on a fucking mixing console and that limits its supportable lifespan considerably.
@@kolvis6626 it not to keep it runnning its for disaster recovery. Man u sound way to angry
@@kolvis6626 calm down. A machine that is mission-critical should be ordered with a spares kit, spare power supply etc.
The biggest mix difference was on that third and fourth track, I recall in the original episode pointing out the drums on B were just kicking the other tracks ass on the 3rd track and it also always more dynamic. Looking at the waveforms you can actually see more compression on the reaper mix. I gotta say that fourth is a really good mix, everything sounds powerful, everything fits in it's place, nothing sticks out and is distracting from the total mix, but you can hear everything on the A version, your Neve version the cymbals take over and the snare goes away. Your fan noise issue I've delt with before, especially trying to record vocals without aa booth. I used to have to unplug the fishtank, the condenser mics would pick it up even though it was in another room behind a door.
I know people absolutely love to shit on Windows, but most issues like this are caused by hardware, not software. You could basically say that's what actually getting a blue screen is essentially telling you - you have a hardware issue.
Not had a blue screen in like 7 years lol or when Windows Vista was a thing...
Improper shutdowns-restarts could also eff-up the boot sectors and the FS
I disagree. Most of the times these BSODs are software related. Windows is just not a reliable OS..
By far the most common reason you'll *ever* see a blue screen on a PC (as rare as they are) is with a failing or incompatible/misconfigured HW or its badly written/buggy driver. Speaking as a PC tech with now several decades of experience if it means anything.
But, granted, the second most common reason would probably be a clueless user who thinks they know best that abuses the hell of their system for years on end and then proceeds to whine in every internet thread about how horrible and unreliable Windows are.
But, I mean, there's plenty of those in every field, as this channel tends to prove so frequently...
I have never had an issue with windows OS, just dont be a moron and update it once in a while lol
Its a very reliable OS, as long as you are not a moron.
For a further Neve vs Reaper comparison, I have a couple suggestions:
1 Frequency sweep & white noise comparisons for pure frequency comparisons without the mixing factor
2 For the mixing side of things, how about an approximate amount of time used to do the mixing? Even if the audio was 100% exactly the same, show us the time difference between using the 2 methods of mixing. That is as you said a major factor in the value 🤙
Windows is okay guys.
Cheaping out on the pc hardware is not.
Oh, by the way. Win10 support is supposed to be dropped in Autumn next year😅
Only the mainstream version. The IoT LTSC version (which I suppose is the version running in this console - or at least it should be) will be supported until 2032.
Yes, They said that Windows 10 is the final version of Windows and it's not.😂 Have to replace a laptop that is perfectly fine for simple tasks... Or instal Chrome OS or Linux.
@@RoderikvanReekum why? I plan to rock my "music" PC way past the official support date. At least now
@@jonessperandio plenty of time to buy new $100k console 🤣
@@kennethdarlingtonIf it is not connected to the Internet that is fine but a connected PC without (update) support will become a security risk and it's not recommended. It would be fine if Windows 11 would support older hardware.
Sadly, Neve will most likely stop supporting this as soon as the last warranty out there is expired, then the only way to make your 100k paperweight work again is hoping some hacker opens up the firmware for future modification. Consumer/pro electronics are in a very sad state these days.
If we're talking about decades of support, I definitely would not go with Mac OS. Try running a 30 year old piece of software (or even 10 year old!) On a current version of Mac OS... it ain't gonna happen. Say what you will about Windows but it's still possible to run 30+ year old software on Windows 10/11. Try that on an Apple.
From my expirience all windows problems were from user negligence. Just take care of it a bit, make sure everything is compatible, dont stack shit upon shit and thats about it.
The best macs were those intel Mac pros. Those 2000 dual quad cheesegraters I know a number of guys who run those in studios to this day. Heavy and they run like tanks.
Mac OSX rocks for me... I have El Capitan and works like a charm
@@cycomiles4225 Agreed. And I'm confident this one was no different.
Yup. I can still run Picture Publisher on my Windows 11 laptop... which I started using with Windows 95. Microsoft takes great pain to make things backward compatible. Can't say that with Apple. I'm the lead dev of an open source project, and when ever there's build issues it's with the Mac or Linux builds. I fully expect when there's a new MacOS release that the builds will break. Heck, you can't even count on what connector the next iPhone will use.
It's so rough to see when I've followed your channel for so many years, seen how much it's grown and the tremendous amount of work you've put in too to get to this desk!!!
Failed computer was probably due to manufacturing issue rather than the operating system. I'm running a Windows machine that has gone non-stop for 7 years without a single fault or failure.
Both are fine, but I really think the neve is bigger warmer and has a less harsh mid bite. I like it better.
$100,000 for a software based appliance is craaaazy 😔💀
Welcome to the world of CNC machining.
I’ve found that different DAWs can yield different sounding results because of the differences in the algorithms used to create eq, compressors, etc…
I took a song that I mixed on my AW4416 and then mixed it in Reaper using the Reaper equivalent plugins, and set them to the same settings as I got from my AW4416. Definite difference in sound.
For me it's completely opposite. Windows runs flawless, and Mac well let's just say I want to throw my mac out the window.
Is your windows pc attached to a 50k console?
@@Durkhead What difference does that make? Windows doesn't get less reliable if it has to work on more information, unless were talking about something like 400 simultaneous USB connections heh
@@Homanjer the difference is that looked like a pos windows tablet trying to run a 50k worth of faders and converters
@@Durkhead If the hardware sucks, that's not Windows fault. Apple always charge a premium for the same, or very similar, hardware.
Same. Worked in applecare for some time and made me happy to go to a windows pc every day.
Hey Glenn,
I've done many highly customized PC builds for industrial settings. In today's money I could deck a custom terminal to fit in where the PC is for 2-3k, with top of the line hardware, very easily. Down the road, if you're ever in the scenario where you cannot replace the unit it wouldn't be that insane to have a custom builder rebuild a similar unit to mount.
Is bricking a super expensive mixing system by turning off the power too fast the producer equivalent of a les Paul neck break because you knocked it over?
poor guy man, i really feel for you, that sucks, i know it all got better from another video, hope it stays that way
I live ten miles from the office, give me a shout if there is anything I can do, sound tech Paul at your service
That being Burnley!
The summer of 2016 I purchased a new Presonus StudioLive 16.02 interface/mixer. Loved the sound and functionality. Then, this past February, the unit stopped working. I contacted Customer Support and was told the unit was out of warranty and they would not repair. They further stated that they would not supply parts or repair information to any third party. Never will I buy an interface/mixer combination again. It's an open question if I will ever buy another Presonus product. To end on a positive note, based on one of your videos, 2 years ago i bought a pair of Kali 8. That really stepped up my game.
The Neve kick and snare sound smoother.
good video ( i listen on KRK V6 monitors with MH3 Soundcraft ) the Neve Console sounds better - there is a difference - but 90% of listeners won't hear the difference, Smartphones, laptops and tablets, Smart televisions, small Radios +++
Have Automatic repair ever repaired any pc ever??? I never saw Windows self diagnosing tool fixing any problem ever 😅
windows self diagnosing is equivelent to the lil engine that could "i think i can i think i can "
The reaper mix all ready sounds so nice that’s because you are really good at this job, when I hear the console it’s offering a bit more by adding something to it, especially with the drums,
if I was your client I would pay for the console mix
This is when you rethink the benefits of analog
Broke: Going analog for the sound quality
Woke: Going analog because every OS is garbage now
I love my Kali LP6s! I'm so thankful you brought them to my attention. I would've spent the same amount or more on worse monitors...
The 88RS runs on Windows XP. I've played pinball on them.
Hahaha my studio I work with also uses the 88rs. Broke down often and a tech guy coming over pulling channel strips, replacing parts on the boards. Then they had to leave it on 24/7 cus shutting it down when studio isn't being used cause it to break. Racking up $5k per month on electric bills since the machine room also has to be air conditioned 24/7 everyday through the year. It's cool to look and take pictures with looking like a big shot. But for home studios not recommended.
Yeah there are a couple of them where I work. There is always work being done on them, it's a testament to our techs that they're up and running 99% of the time.
The mixing desk: a great ergonomic concept that always breaks down. This video reminded me of why I shifted away from the buggers.
Well, that sucks Glenn! Sorry you had an issue with a brand new console. On my Live stream last night, a few folks told me that you mentioned my channel in one of your videos. I have not seen it yet but thanks for the shout out. Would love to chat with you one day! :) - David
I can relate. I had two different catastrophic hard drive failures in the last 2 months or so, on 2 different computers. Luckily, I had everything backed up. But it's not the gear itself, or the plugins, or even the programs themselves that I was most concerned about...my problem was recovering custom settings, and shortcuts that I had accumulated over the years...all wiped out!
This type of issue is utterly unacceptable for this type of platform.
I wonder to what extent this could have been identified earlier. Glenn is pretty admittedly not a PC power user. There are a lot of things you can do to identify that you are on the edge of a failure before it happens. But it requires a bit of legwork either in going about learning such tools or in using them.
I think that if you are paying over 100.000 you should not have to put any "leg work" to notice details that alerts you about this kind of stuff
Other than that I think you're absolutely correct!
Yall do realize that old analog neves and ssls and apis need constant repairs too right?
@@potestoniko
I fully agree. You shouldn’t have to do anything when you get a product like this. However, just because Neve should have good diagnostic tools built-in that are easy to use, doesn’t mean you can’t be proactive.
@@nugznmugz
Yes
Can immediately tell there’s a density/weight and a levelling off of the transients in the neve. The digital mixes were still good, but a definite 5-10% increase in polish on the neve
Windows is a perfectly fine OS, comes in an embedded version which is hopefully what Neve have used. I've been stable over 3 systems and 20 years. I think the strengths of MacOS are Core Audio, interface linking, AVB support built in and a (hopefully) stable hardware platform (though there have been issues in that department with some Macs over the years). There used to be other reasons, like needing 3rd party antivirus and/or to stay offline on Windows, and drivers for graphics cards and the like messing with audio performance and causing clicks and dropouts, but that's so 2010.
Cut out the OS wars stuff Glen. The fact that you couldn't recover Windows indicates a hardware issue anyway.
But I do hope you get the issue sorted and that Neve keep working on the platform until it's rock solid.
I feel the same way about Mac/Apple. I have a saying about Apple: If it isn't broke, do something that will break it. If you can boot in safe mode, run an SFC /scannow, and the DKIM commands.
Maybe SSL next time, Glen? New Neve ain’t old Neve.
Like modern SSLs have anything in common with the classic ones. They also sound completely different to a Neve (both modern and old), what a weird comment.
@@jtsotherone damn bro, I see you commented back to people like 5 different times on this video. It’s all in good fun to roast the company, you a FAN I can see lol…touch grass my guy🤦
@@keybored1650 if it's in fun I got no problem with that!
Glenn, I've been following your channel for a while, have learned and employed some of your concepts. Having said that, I listened to this video mixes on different speakers including some JBL 306 MKII studio monitors, I found that your Neve mixes sound more "punchier" and tighter with some enhanced top end and more presence as well. I do agree with you as people need to stay away from cheap ear buds and really listen before commenting. Thks for sharing your knowledge...take care.
So it's a $100k, Windows-based console. I'm shocked, shocked to hear it bricked itself without warning.
I really appreciate the phase flip examples Glenn! I agree that it doesn't make a huge shift in sound, but it is a shift nonetheless. It was weird that I knew I was hearing a tonal shift on my JBLs, but it was hard to define without a comparison. Hope Neve came through on your CPU sir.
Just heard that power shut down early explanation from Neve at the end of the video. I'm a long time windows IT monkey, and under no circumstances should a Windows install fail to this degree. Period. End of story. I've been running Windows recording systems since 2005, and I've never had that big of a failure.
Yeah, it isn't like Apple ever stopped supporting their own tech.
Or supporting 3rd party hardware past certain OS versions, forcing you to either update your hardware, or miss out on new OS features. This is why I switched from Mac back to Windows.
Yeah, my studio runs on windows for years and I've never had any issues
Instead of auto repair, select the option with an admin command prompt. Then run 'sfc /scannow' (no quotes obv). When that is done, run 'DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth' If that doesn't work, select 'restore my pc' but pick the option that says 'keep my files'. That'll fix Win without destroying your existing files. I've made a healthy living fixing Windows machines. I never get to work on Macs as they're usually phased out with no chance of updates by the time someone brings me one.
They generally do sound different. But the different mixes to me were just that, different. The Neve mixes to me were not better or worse than the ITB mixes. They were just different
The automatic cut on that mic has made a few bad cuts, but over all, it's pretty impressive.
Shit, that sucks.
Brother, I was listening to the mixes while I was putting a frame together so I wasn't even watching just listening. I'm listening through some killer Yamaha YST Advanced speakers with a nice subwoofer. I really couldn't tell the difference to be totally honest. Both mixes sounded phenomenal. There was some ever so slight differences I would notice from time to time, especially on the guitars but other than that, chef's kiss!
Audio Engineer and IT Guy here: Neve know that the Support period of a Windows Version is 18 Months.
I deal with this shit daily for Automotive Companies where Production Machines often still run on Windows XP... yes XP.
And the Support People are retired or even dead...
I had a case where a 75 year old guy needed a Windows 98 Virtual Machine to build a Programming Environment to fix a 25 year old Bug in the Software.
I don't know how Neve will support this thing for more than a few years.
As an IT Guy in regards to Music: Leave the IT out the Chain as much as you can.
For embedded devices, Microsoft have an LTSC (Long Term Channel Support) of Windows that is supported for a much longer period; the current LTSC version of Windows 10, for example, is planned to end extended support in 2032 - Windows 11 LTSC hasn't been released yet. These versions don't support the full Windows experience however (because they're designed to be run on single-use embedded systems).
@@cynicaloutlook I know about that but it is still a huge mess. The current LTSC Versions have so much issues (Siemens SPS / RS232 / 488 etc..) that Windows 7 and XP still lives on in industrial environments an nobody supports it that we have to isolate them.
Do you want to isolate a Neve Console in 8 years so it doesn't bring viruses to your Network? No thanks....
It is simply a bad idea to put Windows on such devices.
In the comparison section the neve seems to be more transient overall which does sound better to my ears. It seemingly gives that life and bounciness to the different elements in the mix
The dude that makes fun of players buing 3k guitars that aren't any better than cheaper ones bought a 100k comsole and got burned. Poetic justice. And now he starts asking the questions about longevity anybody with half a braincell would have asked before spending one hundred fuggin gramd on it.
I could hear the differences listening on a really good set of computer speakers. They weren't enormous, but they were obvious, the sound seemed more 'there'. But you really should point out that you are comparing a $100,000 thing to a $225 (for the professional version) thing, so I should hope to high heaven that it would be better! Love your channel, keep up the good work!
If 1000 bassists buy your bass sim, 1000 bands will sound like they have the same bassist.
That’s like saying if 1000 bassists buy bass strings, 1000 bands will sound like they have a the same bassist.
Assuming this was in the same order as the blind video and clips didn't get mixed around from video to video, I was wrong about mix 2!
I typically liked the Reaper mixes better, but mix 2 just sounded better on the Neve to me. Listening to it all again today, I can see how people like the Neve mixes more in general, but they feel a little muffled in a direct AB comparison.
Loved the analysis!