I have a fun dumb thing that I realized part way through this game: Tokisaka shrine is a huge pun. “Toki wo sakanoboru” means to go back in time. It may as well be called time travel shrine.
Pat in the end they literally say that they'll grow biological bodies for the "not-real" NPCs because they're such an advanced A.I. that THEY ARE TOTALLY REAL and worthy of living in the real world.
Moreover, rewriting brains of freshly made and aged human bodies with AI copies, DD426'ed Okino-style, is good for creating 6 million educated population for the colony… BUT there is really no reason to equate "real" with "human". What the hell body form is supposed to do with consciousness and level of sapience ? They just as real in simulation or android body as in human one.
well the problem is actually just that its an ancient philosophical problem thats excerbated by an extreme action like rape being brought into the equation. in the real world, philsophically it is impossible to say definitively that you are alive in the body that you think you occupy, which applies to rape obviously. so the characters being ai in a simulation is technically just as real as real life. pat is arguing that in the context of the world they arent real where woolie misunderstands and says all fiction is not real hyperbolically. my only thought is whether the simulation would even allow that at all considering we never see any kids other than chihiro
@@god47398 Have you missed all the school students in all school and outdoors scenes ? As for little kids, they are likely just didn't want to draw more. However, there are women with infants, like in Miwako teleportation scene in Gouto's story.
It takes a lot of stupidity to play through the entirety of 13 Sentinels and come away with the opinion that the AI people aren't real, something which goes against everything the game is trying to tell you.
The existence of Sector 0 and the versions of several characters that jumped the loop by having Universal Control simulate fully conscious and autonomous copies based on the data of their memory scans proves that the simulated population of the Sectors consists of fully sentient individuals. Which makes them equal subjects to the humans as far as most moral considerations are concerned.
The two things I learned from this entire LP is that Woolie "Chemicals" Madden lacks empathy unless it lines up with what he would do, and that he approves a Black Mirror future of punishing bad people.
one thing that kinda annoyed me during this is that i don't think woolie or pat actually understood the point of the 'NPCs' and that it wasn't 'they were AIs so therefore they aren't actually people or have inherent value'. half the relevant characters are 'AIs', and they're all copies of the same people who are also their own distinct individuals. a huge question and theme in the game is what actually defines what a 'person' even is if not a personality and lived personal experiences and it has a pretty clear answer to that. 426 is a copy of a copy of a copy, juro kurabe is LITERALLY an artificial construct that did not exist before tamao created him and put him in izumi's empty brain. the only difference is that he has biological hardware, and that's not a difference the game makes any sort of hay over. none of the NPCs are meant to be simple robots living inside a routine, if they were then universal control would not be necessary in order to control them. if they were just robots that could only understand their routines miwako wouldn't have needed to be memory wiped and reset because getting transported to the 'future' would be so far outside the boundaries of her routine that she wouldn't even be able to recognize something was wrong. the reason that it's important for the 'NPCs' to be warped out of sector 4 is because they are, literally, lives worth saving. i thought that this was obvious when they literally mention installing the AIs into biological bodies and that's only not completely horrifying if you accept the premise that they are literally, already 'people'. tldr miwako is real
Well one of Okino’s outstanding characteristics is that his personality is just a simulation of his original with backed up memories, and he debates Ei over how he doesn’t even think of himself as any different. There’s a whole theme of what exactly even counts as human anymore throughout the game.
@Morcego cinzento and yet these twochucklefucks refuse to see that I think they should replay the game over some 5 more times to see if it gets through their skulls
What Pat said about the outer walls as endless mesh with no bulkhead in sight making more sense as a computer thing is something I hadn't thought about, I thought it would be a white void for a simulation. I guess that mesh is the 3D equivalent of the texture failing to render in Source.
Outside the 15km radius of the city is just the farlands in Minecraft where the world generation doesn't know what to do anymore so it just makes an infinite repeating mesh.
Woolie: Megumi is an absolute trash with no respect for anyone's desires and feelings, and I despise her for it. Anyway, here's a reason why we should put all of the people willing to redeem themselves into a fake universe to survey them for an unknown amount of time - probably a few hundred years - and decide by ourselves whenever or not to let them out.
"one of the worst things you can do to your story is saying it was all a dream. it removes all consequences from your story" all i can hear is pat saying, 'i screwed up that dnd game because they can just say it didnt happen'
The moment I went from not really liking Megumi to really liking her, is when she gets to Iori, and says, "No, this is for me." because she recognizes she's wrong, but now she feels she's too far in and afraid what will happen if she stops.
megumi doesn't even do anything though. like, seriously, all she does is make him food and be nice to him and ask him to be a little nice to her, and he runs away from her because he thinks he's going to hurt her. the only conflict between the two is: "i needed a place to stay and your grandma said i could stay here. by the way i made dinner :)" to which juro replies "whAT?!?! A GiRl anD a GUy lIvINg TOgeTHer?? hOw ScanDoLOus!!!!" while secretly thinking "oh my god shes so perfect but i need to stay away from her or i might hurt her".
@@pketr5 That's actually really important, because someone does allude to some parts of Quantum Mechanics that make certain forms of teleportation impossible or infeasible. Early clue that it's all a simulation.
I like miwako as much as the next guy, but woolie hating megumi for stalker behavior, but liking miwako who is on record taking pictures of gouto without him knowing is throwing me for a loop lol
Woolie's views are so twisted. But he probably didn't even think about that since no harm came from Miwako but Megumi made Juro uncomfortable (by accident!) and shot people. Woolz only gets riled up when defending a victim. So he doesn't even notice his own double standards.
Miwako's stalking is "Teenagers be dumb / crazy" level, Megumi's is "Imma invite myself in your house and rewrite your whole personality" level. The gap between the two is so vast that I can easily understand why one would be (more) OK with Miwako while still disliking Megumi... That and the fact that the game "validates" Megumi's stalking by having her end up with Juro which is just... Yikes.
I read somewhere that that line is supposed to be him "putting on a show", AKA changing his personality and demeanor the same way Ida tried to change for Tomi. Makes that line better
Yeah, that was a major part of Shu’s character, he puts on the loverboy persona because he thinks that will get him the girl, when being himself is ultimately what she likes.
Has Woolie figured out yet that in 2188 Okino was arguing AGAINST sending out Project Ark, and that Ogata had changed his mind because of the wild change in circumstances? Izumi's earlier scene showed that he was willing to put his life on the line for a thread of hope, I don't think the shootout contradicts that, and it's not as simple as "was he a good guy or bad guy."
Wait had 2188 Ogata changed his mind my interpretation of the shootout was that Ogata bringing guns lead to Izumi going "fuck it" and just starts shooting.
@@ReplacementBlue My interpretation is that everyone was already on edge because of the explosion and the energy issue, Ogata brought armed dudes just to be safe, Okino was being the most stubborn and that Izumi ended up shooting him out of frustration/desperation. They didn't count on Takatoshi pulling a John Wick and killing everyone armed though.
@@ReplacementBlue Morimura had to leak the Nanomachines to the black market to get the funding to continue the Ark cause Ogata didn't agree with it and was cutting funding. At that time, Earth and humanity are still alive. It's not until Morimura leaks the Nanomachines that eventually got infected leads to the extinction of humanity. My interpretation was once that happened Ogata went 'The world is basically dead. You still got that fucking Ark, right? Cause we sending it!'
It was really interesting to hear Pat take on the ending. As expected, he considers all the AIs as not real persons and he doesn't care about their fates, but he does make the correct observation that as more information is given, the scope of the danger becomes more and more personal, keeping his attention. I just find it amazing that the game is good enough in making you care about the characters that even missing half of the message still leaves you with a satisfying end conflict and resolution.
Pat is 100% right about the Megumi thing and Woolie is stupid and wont realize that the ONLY reason Juro ever pushed Megumi away is cause he's terrified of killing her cause of his dreams even though it is EXPLICITLY AND CLEARLY stated in the game. Woolie is riding his "bad relationship" bandwagon too hard. She never actually stalks him even.
Juro's brain is being fucked with too, so him not wanting Megumi around is void because he wasn't capable of making rash decisions at the time, because he's not sound of mind. In the real world Megumi is the friend that Juros mom asked to look after because she's worried he'll hurt himself. Edit: Megumi just wanted prevent him from getting his mind replaced. it wasn't just case she liked him.
@@leeohx7174 Right, so it was just looking out for Juro's health when she leapt at the first questionable entity that promised to remind Juro that he's Izumi, going straight against Tamao's own request. Also, Tamao still isn't Juro. If your argument is "Juro's so insane he can't make any decisions" then we'll just fundamentally disagree, it's not even worth debating the amount that Juro likes Megumi or not at that point.
I was 100% behind Pat on the Megumi situation and thinking he was being the reasonable one for once... And then he started with the "it's okay if these fully sentient AI are assaulted in an allyway, they are not real, who cares" bit for no reason and I had to quit the podcast for 15 minutes out of frustration. UGH.
This will probably be my last comment on this issue, Woolie's opinion on Megumi during the playthrough is hilariously bent and he honestly went full Pat when talking about her. Also not helping that his only counter argument was Reggie who's even worse than him because his only argument is "food" (seriously tho, Reggie, what the hell man?). On the other hand, I cant believe it take Pat of all people for Woolie to have a rather normal discussion about Megumi. Was expecting it to go the same way like their discussion on Sekigahara if anything.
I honestly think Reggie just didn't wanna bother getting into a spat with Woolie. When Woolie pushes, Reggie almost never pushes back and just retreats, its not exclusive to this LP. He just laughs it off and let Woolie have the win instead of turning it into a thing.
Yeah, Reggie was trying to throw in there that Megumi was doing it all for Juro Izumi, but Woolie, being how he is, decided to just LATCH on to the "food" bit and ride it into the ground as to completely negate any argument Reggie could've thrown out. It's a shame really
Man, and here i was hoping, that in nearly two hours, we would discuss a bit more than woolie's constant "but those relationships aren't healthy." Well woolie when there are only 10 people left you don't really get to be too picky about the details of the relationship and maybe restarting humanity MIGHT take priority
yeah its really a bit frustrating how long he harps on the subject... it sucks that this seems to be his main take away from such an incredibly cool sci-fi story. as if high schoolers stuck in a looping nightmare simulation are going to have perfectly healthy relationships that we should seek to emulate. some weird virtue signaling or something going on with him and this topic
Get on Nicob's level. Yeah I agree with Pat, he gets the social climate back then being captured correctly can mean problems but you can enjoy it without actively hunting for those problems all the time.
I guess I was the only one that liked the fact that 2188 Ei felt like it was his moral duty to kill Morimura. He gives off the feeling that once he knows what she did he would have done the job pro bono. I fall a little bit pray to the hot morally gray, but I also like hitmen with depth. Since the rest of him is kinda of milk toast, and you only see him for one scene, it at least allows him the illusion of depth which I can always appreciate.
... The Ai has been repeatedly stated that it's so advance that it's indistinguishable from normal people (file no.216) people are literally programming themselves into Ai constructs... Miwako and those other ai's aren't a damn chair! They may not be based on specific people but their sophistication does show humanity. That's literally why Miwako exists as a character to show you that the random Ai is still sentient. Still worth preserving and not worth treating like random bits of data that mean nothing. Literally they are over a million variations of people of a by gone era for the kids to reference humanity.
@Morcego cinzento haha true. There was one detail related to that that seems overlooked. Juro gets more uncomfortable over time because in his story he is understanding his dreams are memories. One of those memories are of him killing her. So yeah he would feel pretty anxious about that. In other words the motivation for his discomfort is from this revelation and not because of the unease of unwanted attention which is a hot button topic here in the west. I get it though. But there is a clear narrative motivation for it and not just a hmmm boundaries issue.
@Morcego cinzento @Morcego cinzento lol that's right! Ogata's intro was definitely meant to set him at a very low bar. It's just a bit odd how hard they get on her for it but Okino's is so much more nefarious and manipulative, cultural boundaries and rules of courtship aside, is absolutely detestable. Which is great writing because it adds a lot of shades to Okino so I'm down for the slime it's entertaining af. But yeah I definitely like woolie's madness about this whole thing actually. It's fun lol I want more tin hat wearing shotgun blasting random guessing. Kinda felt like he was getting a bit left out to dry. Not getting enough back and forth (in the lp. The chat seems to be giving him a hard time) despite the narrative designed top to bottom to indulge in it. Hopefully it doesn't discourage him from doing more of it in the future. It makes for fun if not outlandish talks lol
One of my favorite Pat moments of all time was his first elevator pitch for 13 Sentinels, it sold me pretty much instantly, and now it's my favorite story of the decade. Thanks BB. Spoilers for 13 Sentinels: I fucking hate Ida so much. I hate is creep-ass manipulative personality, I hate how slimy he is in every scene, I hate how selfish he is in the face of extinction. I can't believe the game managed to make me forgive him, this game is so good. Also, there is a shocking amount of post-game battles, and it is SHOCKING how easy it is to break this game's balance over one's knee. Big tip, Super Big Missile+Point Regen. Upgrades+Instant Turn Reset Terminal Upgrade=Instant Win. Natsuno Best Girl, Hijiyama Best Boy, and Woolie is super wrong about Megumi
I think the important is that everyone enjoyed the game higly despite they wrong opinion about why is good or what is good in it, just keep shilling it.
Woolie needs to chill with the associative stuff. Legit made Ei Sekigahara sound like an abuser until he clarified he was talking about someone he knew. Everyday it gets harder to defend Woolie and I'm losing the will to do it
It happens all the time and is really annoying for everyone involved. Woolie gets annoyed because Pat doesn't understand him, Pat gets confused because Woolie starts taking about his opinion on a completely different situation and we get annoyed because we see them go in circles for a while. Woolie, if you want to comment about your opinion on a completely different situation, then first cut your opinion on the original situation and THEN change to the new situation, don't just chain them together, it makes you look like a crazy person who doesn't have their facts straight. That said, after the 13 Sentinels LP and seeing how strong Woolie headcanon is, I am starting to doubt if on most cases he really is talking about a different situation or he is just horribly misremembers the events he is commenting on.
Thank fuck pat dragged woolie kicking and screaming through parts of this spoilercast. Cause holy fuck woolie was adamant in keeping the wheels spinning for pretty much an hour
I think you are missing a layer of the loop, failure to resolve the problem doesn't mean the colonization project is a failure, it just means that the pod facility would be demolished and rebuilt, and since the sector 0 hard drive resides inside the facility all knowledge of the loops of that 5000 years will be physically lost. so of that 20 million years there is no telling how many 5000 year long loops have occurred because the facility needed to be rebuilt.
But at what point does the facility run out of the resources that it gathered from asteroids along the way to the destination planet? Will it use the planet's resources instead? If so, how much, so as not to leave behind an unacceptably low amount avalible to the humans that eventually emerge? I assume renewable energy is a factor, but I just don't see the point of destroying and rebuilding the facility in the same location as that process would be a waste of resources.
@@PredictableEnigma Remember these are self replicating robots not people, fhere could be a line of solar systems 1200 light years long that have swarms of automated robots inhabiting it, stripping every uninhabitable planet to its molten core, star a dyson sphere and continuously pumping resources at sublight for the past 20 million years, probably not but I'm sure there is enough raw material on that planet they are on that was deemed suitable to repopulate humanity that the D's have been mining for god knows how long and rebuilding a facility that looks like the size of a convenience store be a burden.
Also rebuilding that facility to poop out the 15 is the reason the entire project exists so, I'm pretty sure rebuilding it is priority number 1, also remember having a loop going on for eons was never intended, its just a fail safe kicking in, if it wasn't for Shinonome doing the nono they only reason they wouldn't leave the pod first try is maybe like, the growing phase failed and you have defective clones or something.
There is a character who manages to [spoilers] destroy all of humanity after creating a means to save all of humanity, shoots her love, ride mechs, ride horny with a boy on a motorcycle, do classic anime tropes such as run into someone and then pantyshot, manipulate young boys as a hot teacher/nurse, and even become a thousand+ year old loli. If you find these facts interesting, give the game a try.
45:16 keep in mind, Juro K is talking to Shiba the whole time. Someone only HE see's and Megumi is actually concerned while she's being manipulated by Fluffy who only she talks to. Fluffy and Shiba being tge same person
1:25:30 Here's another interesting thought to the terraforming humanity virus: What if the probes encounter a planet that already has life on it? Will they decide to terraform then anyway, wiping out the existing life? What if that life is intelligent enough to be able to fight back? Will the terraforming AI then adapt to have weapons too, turning into real Kaiju?
1:34:35 There's actually some real world basis for some of these things, which would be epigenetics. There's experiments for example where they can train rats to be afraid of a certain noise and then even the next generation of rats is also afraid of that noise despite never having heard it before.
On the subject of the cop, Onishi, Woolie was complaining because a cop saw somebody talking to some girls and didn't drag them downtown on the spot. For funsies, here's my original comment on the subject: Chief: Look, you see one of those boys, black hair, black clothes, just a whole lotta blackness, talking to blonde girls, you bring 'em in. Doesn't matter what they've done, you drag them downtown and give 'em a good scare. It's important to have a name for 'em - they wear a bunch of wool, so we've been calling 'em woolies. Recruit: Did you just use a hard w?!
Ah, of course, Megumi is bad: she and Kurabe have wrong chemicals and you can't have them mix, brudda ! What the world would come to otherwise ? it's just the only morally neat thing to do. Also, only humans are people… because of the Dark Soul, you see.
Two things: One, Ogata only had a chance is because he literally got a repeated groundhogs day loop to sort out his feelings, pat's right. Also Woolie complaining about the cop guy, he is complaining about a person that doesn't exist, not in the AI sense, but in the sense that he's disappointed of a preconception of the character.
For 13 Sentinels to catch on in popularity, the West has to overcome their views on Visual Novels. But we know they won’t. Plus, the fact that this is a very mind fucky kinda game will make most people shy away from it, due to it being not easy to understand and digest. This is unfortunately a niche game that will not click with a lot of people, and it’s probably gonna stay that way. Also, Woolie, your opinions regarding Juro and Megumi are incorrect. Back down from that flimsy hill, it’s not worth dying on.
Woolie's fucking plot-gun I stg "Miura's line tricks you" No, Woolie, it tricked YOU!! Will Woolie ever realize 2188 Ogata had a change of heart about Project Ark after the world went to shit? We just don't know Woolie no, Juro starts running away from her in school because he's afraid he's gonna hurt her like in his murder dreams. HE LITERALLY TELLS HER THAT, TO HER FACE, IN NO ROUNDABOUT TERMS Tamao ANDROID from one loop ago created the Juro Kurabe personality "It doesn't make sense to expect her to act that way" THEN WHY ARE YOU HARPING SO HARD ON HER WOOLIE HOT DAMN "Yandere" NOOO!! WTH WOOLIE, THAT'S RYOKO NO MEGUMI??? Reggie TRIED to make more points above food but YOU kept coming back to it!! I can't believe Pat completely missed out on the point of the AI Lifeforms inside the Simulation and why they matter as PEOPLE
@@Takfloyd damn nigga. If you're gonna be that toxic against ppl with different opinions on a dumb video game, then man I can't even imagine what a loser you might be IRL. Like, calm tf down.
Just something to add to the 16 old brains. I remember some study that showed that it's not only a matter of incomplete brains, but that *certain skills especially regarding to empathy actually become worse again during teenage years* than they were as children. In other words, teenagers are a55holes. Moreso than both children and adults. So things like Okino being an a55 or Megumi being too intrusive are likely to naturally disappear once they have a complete brain at 25 years old. That said, Megumi's decision to shoot people with a gun she doesn't know what it does is not something that can be justified that way, even if it didn't come from a cat. Realistically she might have some sort of mental deficiency or psychological disorder.
1:28:25 Not quite everybody. Brain fried Juro Izumi actually did die effectively. Same for Ryoko and arguably partially Sekigahara. (And of course the hundreds of loops before that.)
I hate whenever Pat's argument boils down to "...but it is/isn't though." It's where the line between his "hyperbole Pat" and "actual weirdo Pat" blurs so much that I can't tell who he's playing as.
after playing the entire game i can say that i agree with all these comments, these two knuckleheads spent two entire hours talking about basically absolutely fucking nothin that's actually interesting.
Woolie thinks that when the facility falls apart, that's the FINAL LOOP, and humanity never restarts on the planet. This is not true. Instead, it's implied that there will be a "harder reset", because the drones will pave over and RECONSTRUCT the facility for a fresh 5000-year lifespan, which resets sector 0, and even the satellite so Miyuki Inaba wouldn't have been spared. So humanity would still have a chance on each of the planets where the facility collapses, because it would keep getting rebuilt by the self-renewing drones on the planet.
It will never cease to amaze and frustrate me how much Woolie misunderstood this game. There were so many points during the LP where the game would say a thing, Woolie would pause and come to the exact OPPOSITE conclusion to what the game JUST EXPLICITLY STATED NOT THIRTY SECONDS PRIOR.
Woolie couldnt be more wrong about Megumi but AI this advanced are just people, Miwako is the best and is real to me. Only reason I finished those battles is so she could her crepes
I think the only problem with the Okino x Hijiama relationship is the brain reading scene and it could be that Okino could see in Hijiama's brain where is actual limit was and that while he was putting up a fuss he was still enjoying it more than not, kinda similar to a safe word with bdsm. At least that's what I'm gonna tell myself.
Uh... Tamao (not No.18 with the cut body takeover plot) is pretty cool and Miwako is a cinnamon bun aside from sneaking Gotou pics. As far as we know Okino 2LA seemed like a stand up guy, and we never see how the other kids 1LA were like.
Double fuck you on Pat's cop-out for "they aren't real" because the literal second to last line of the game was "we're working on giving the AI in the simulation real bodies" so they will be real people, and that cop is gonna need some re-training when he wakes up in a flesh body. So yes it's a valid criticism
I know I'm months late to the conversation at this point but still. I get where Woolie is coming from regarding Megumi and Kurabe, but he completely missed the game explicitly stating that Kurabe is only pushing her away because he has constant dreams of murdering Megumi and their friends. Edit: Just got the one of Pat's absolute worst takes ever regarding the AI characters. Oh boy.
I quit watching the 13 Sentinels streams because of how much overanalyzation and weird timewasting tangents there were (plus how long it took) but according to the comments they STILL didn't get it.
So was the hypocrisy that 2188 Ida was talking about the fact that everyone was like cloning themselves to be messiahs of like the human race and like wanting to back themselves up after finding 2188 Chihiros back up data? Also I actually want to discuss this and I know they touched on it in the videos, but has anyone figured out the order when people died on the colony in 2188? Cause as they go through logs the number goes from 15, to 10, to just 3. We already know it was just Ida 2188 and Ryoko 2188 as the last two, but It’s more so about figuring out the order of events
Remember also for Juro "rejecting" Megumi: As said, Juro is f...d in the head but also: Have you consider JAPAN 1985. Yeah, living with a girl that is your age and NOT your kin in 1985 Japan? OUCH... That's why he doesn't want people to know that they are living together. It's cultural. Also, I played in japanese and watch your playthrough, there is a lot that doesn't translate well in the VA... Even tho the VA is pretty good.
Okay. Fine. I'll bite. I havent watched the video yet, and I don't plan to, so someone tell me, with no spoilers, what the fuck IS this game? Sell me on it.
MVPs are obviously Gouto, Ogata, Takamiya, Muira, and Mr. Yaksoba Pan himself Hijiyama. Honorable Mentions to Tomi, Sekigahara, Izumi, and Okino. Miwako gets her own tier by herself for being so damn cute and awesome. Everyone else is okay. Shinonome is still the worst with Ida being slightly above her.
I loved this game to death. Easily my 2020 GOTY that didn't have "Persona" in the title. I could not for a single moment believe any of the relationships in this game, aside from Hijiyama x Okino, because it's two types of socially awkward intermingling, and maybe Miura x Minami because fluff.
@@YetiCoolBrother The game looks boring cuz the combat is more fun to play than it is to watch, and most of the insane things happening will be revealed through text.
the only thing Megumi that could honestly be considered "stalking" is waiting for him by the school gates and when he goes to his next class. never followed him home, never steal his clothes to smell, or follow him outside of school but Ogata trying to sneak into the girls' changing room to get a peek is considered wholesome. yep, Woolie " The Love Docter" Madden in the house
it was never clear that it was a simulation. especially depending on the order you play story events. you don't really get an obvious hint of that until Shu hits the barrier of the city or Natsuno has that talk with BJ. all the 2188 flashbacks seemed like messages from the future or in the case of tamao's case that when she was "out of town" she was actually in an orbiting space station after timetraveling
@Morcego cinzento How the hell is it "poorly designed" ? It's perfect. Although, I still don't understand how I missed or dismissed the virtual part. Maybe because I didn't want to believe that right until ending Tamao scene with genius explanation why it's done so to begin with.
@Morcego cinzento You mean categorized ? I though so too. They are actually categorized but put in line without additional subcategory menu. I think far worse problem with them is that "new" status is removed after scrolling past, like Woolie does. It should have required holding a button to change status between "new/notice" and "watched". As for "reveals", I think that it how it's intended. At no point I though that game showed something you didn't know or couldn't deduce already, like a spy. The "virtual" part baffles me though but it didn't spoil me, somehow. And I've paid really close attention here and in NicoB's LP.
Wall of text. Big opinions. Spoilers. I guess no one is going to mention that a lot of character's plot points were completely dropped in favor of others. I prefer Iori over Natsuno completely, and Megumi over both of them. Natsuno's entire gameplay is actually playing the wheelchair of the actual character BJ. And as a character, Natsuno ignores all her friends, confronts nothing except with the risk that she should be attacked and survives continuously, there should have been a point where Ogata talked to Natsuno to give her the key, and her relationships (Yuki is barely there, Juro is a scifi buddy who gets dumped with Miura who she only interacts with when he looks for her, and only makes assumptions that happen to be correct.) Her story is ET with a being who knows the secrets of the universe, and she never asks any questions; she gets the answer bot of everything and tells no one anything that the bot could say is crucial to know. It's just BJ's story. Iori is refered to as, "she's just horny" and I would agree, but my issue is that there are several scenes where she's trying to figure things out, and she does more than a lot of the female cast. She tries to tell juro about her dreams as well as the ufo, and that goes no where, and after that, it's just here and Ei, which I found completely disappointing. Yuki's story is one of the worst, by that Tamao is following her and manipulating her memories, but for no known reason is it important. There is at no point in the game that Tamao controlled by 426-izumi is trying to get Yuki to get any info from Ida, which would make a massive amount of sense. In fact, Ida doesn't really play any good role by trying to recruit Yuki. Her story helps others, but despite having a goal of her own, the story doesn't make it all that important to them. Fuck Ryoko. She forgot her childhood friend and is hunting him as a terrorist without question, obeys Ida as a doll, infects Ei's sentinel, and despite the nurse and Gouto knowing what happened to the sentinel's do nothing but allow this troubled more than anyone teen, take a gun and hunt across the sectors without control. "Megumi is absolute trash..." Fuck that! She's trying to restore her handicapped bf's memories and willing to make a deal with the devil to shoot kids for it. I empathize with her goals completely and she wasn't going to do it if it was going to kill anyone anyway. And the no respect to Juro is Juro wanting her to leave regardless of her contract, which is the entire issue from his point. Not to mention, Natsuno literally abandons Miura on Juro. ---------------------------------- The entire game relies on one time things. Juro kills everyone but Ida is why Tomi was rebuilt, which is why she was put into a sentinel, which is why she was transfered into the space station, which is the only reason the game has a success as well. The timer started regardless, so the world would have been invaded regardless of the d code as far as we can tell. None of this would have happened if Morimura, Okino and Izumi made it to sector 0 SOMEHOW!!!! ---------------------------------- Professor Morimura did destroy humanity by selling nano machines on the black market, but in her defense, she was just following Kouji's direction in manipulating her so he can be revived, WHICH SHE DIDN'T DO, selling the machines was to get more funding to FINISH the Ark project, which was already by the beginning was an honest project constantly being fucked by Gouto and Nenji for no reason but to establish colonies. She did nothing wrong beyond trying to lead humanity by transferring her mind into Iori, but they would have needed a leader to a degree, which means she was NEVER going to revive Kouji or at least, let him be the new leader of humanity. The real question is why was Gouto and Nenji's dna stored at all?
Second comment and then I'm gone. Why do people like Natsuno and Miwako? I found them annoying especially Miwako doing nothing really substantial. I found everything Natsuno wasn't doing to be what I dislike about her. Besides that, she has no real relationship scenes in the game that matter besides Miura, who her actions make me dislike a bit more even.
I don’t like the final twist. The game has about 4 twists, each subverting the expected understanding of the world. The first impression is that you have an invasion by monsters that moves backwards in time. Then the game makes you think that it is actually parallel worlds being invaded, and the characters jump back through time across multiple instances. Then the THIRD twist makes you think that there are four sectors co-existing and the invasion moves through these sectors, with the protagonists having to reset the sectors when they fail, being rebuild by nanotechnology, etc. That third impression was the most interesting to me. And then the FOURTH twist - “IT WAS ALL A SIM!” Goddamn Plato’s F-ing cave nonsense. Prey 2017 did the same damn thing, and it’s my most hated twist. It doesn’t ruin the game for me, I still enjoyed it, but I did not like the final twist.
Except that it's great, they somehow out-matrixed the Matrix. And ending to Prey 2017 is awesome. The reason why it's great is "the moral of the story". They were distracting you from it the whole time and then Tamao 2188 comes out and says it: "it's all about THE MEMES, Juro, the DNA of the soul !".
I agree, but i didn't even want the sector story. Once it started dropping hints of that I was hoping it was something else or a half measure with at least SOME time travel, because i honestly wanted a good time travel story with lots of other sci fi elements (like androids, mecha, and nanobots) thrown in. I still thought the game was great though.
Seems like people don’t like the Wookiee take on Megumi cause I was all into that shit since I don’t think her character is that decent in general. She’s lackluster, especially when you have all these other characters. Plus the whole Juro/Megumi ship kinda irks me cause the basis of their relationship is surrounded by genetic sexual attraction n I’m like nah tho
Horizon Zero Dawn was in my opinion a far more interesting and unique take on the whole world being ended by technology angle, it felt a lot more realistic, horrifying and believable and the lore pay off is great, especially if you know the kore implications as to why there's a sequel for it. 13 sentinels on the other hand, at least in my opinion, just felt like it just kept losing steam the more it revealed. The entire story is just way too filled with "animeisms" for me to take a lot of it seriously, or at least as seriously as it wanted to be taken. Also, while it was interesting to see it reference other sci-fi properties, I feel like it did it way too much to the point that the references were the only reason some of the events were even interesting in the first place, as in, the thing that was happening wasn't interesting in its own right, but only because it was a reference to something we already know about. Also, half way through I called the ending basically being similar to Darling in the Franxx, so in my opinion, it really doesn't feel like this games story is as original as people are trying to claim, I mean, you are free to like it if you want, but it isn't as impressive or original of you have played or seen shows in with a similar type of plot.
This game stands out is the way it presents the information to the player as you go through the story. I personally haven't played Horizon, but I can understand comparing it to the world building of this game may not be as interesting. The main appeal I think for most people including myself is the journey to the end that makes this game amazing.
Horizon and 13 Sentinels have a really similar situation, both being man-made extinction events made by greedy misuse of technology that force the survivors to design a way of restarting humanity after they were gone that went wrong because of the actions of an idiot. You even need similar technology, as both require extremely effective methods of production, the ability to make life out of a template and terraforming capabilities, but I wouldn't say that Zero down is more realistic. For one, while ZD is more reduced in scope (staying on earth and all), the apocalypse is also much more severe. ZD extinction event eliminated all forms of life in the planet, including bacteria. Considering that you can make the planet explode and some bacteria would still survive then no, the level of destruction made by the Faro machines is absurd. And having life already exist in the planet makes the reinsertion attempts much more troublesome, specially over such insane amount of time. in 13 Sentinels is just humanity the one screwed over. ZD also shows a much less integrated technology. They already have nanomachines, yet the integration with humans that is shown in 13 Sentinels (and you can bet that a miracle cure like nanomachines would be implemented on humans ASAP) is non-existant in ZD. ZD also has no excuse to not look at at least Lunar inhabitation as a solution, they already had the technology and they had MUCH more time, people and resources that the scientists on 13 Sentinels had. The Faro plague also had no way of following them out of orbit, unlike the nanomachine infection in 13 Sentinels. They did had the "send a ship to the stars" project, which sadly failed miserably, but that is not the only way of using space to your benefit, and if you are already going to spend the rest of your time in a completely sealed bunker, you may as well do it on the moon where a leak is much easier to fix before everyone dies. On the other hand, 13 Sentinels survival project is the repurposing of an already existing space colonization program, which goes a long way in explaining many of the rougher details in the plan. Last, but this is just a personal point, I am not so sure about the hints that the Faro plague lethality comes from Deep Silver, probably because the idiot used it as a base for his new machines AI after losing Elizabeth. Deep Silver was a accident, it's omnicidal tendencies came from nowhere and having that be the catalyst behind all the problems in the story, even if it has been enabled by the idiocy of so many humans, feels cheap. I like HADES, because I understand its motivation, it just wants to do what it was made to do and since the official protocol was sent to hell it is trying to get to the same outcome by different means, but Deep Silver motivation is that it just want to kill everything, and I find that boring.
Better yet, the Project Ark in 13 Sentinels is based on current REAL-LIFE colonization concepts, it's not even fiction. How silly to call it out for "not being original" if it's all based on scientific plans. The damn simulation is a giant training game/self-movie for protagonists, orchestrated by director super-AI based on library of human history and culture, including anime.
I have a fun dumb thing that I realized part way through this game:
Tokisaka shrine is a huge pun. “Toki wo sakanoboru” means to go back in time.
It may as well be called time travel shrine.
Pat in the end they literally say that they'll grow biological bodies for the "not-real" NPCs because they're such an advanced A.I. that THEY ARE TOTALLY REAL and worthy of living in the real world.
Moreover, rewriting brains of freshly made and aged human bodies with AI copies, DD426'ed Okino-style, is good for creating 6 million educated population for the colony… BUT there is really no reason to equate "real" with "human". What the hell body form is supposed to do with consciousness and level of sapience ? They just as real in simulation or android body as in human one.
well the problem is actually just that its an ancient philosophical problem thats excerbated by an extreme action like rape being brought into the equation. in the real world, philsophically it is impossible to say definitively that you are alive in the body that you think you occupy, which applies to rape obviously. so the characters being ai in a simulation is technically just as real as real life. pat is arguing that in the context of the world they arent real where woolie misunderstands and says all fiction is not real hyperbolically. my only thought is whether the simulation would even allow that at all considering we never see any kids other than chihiro
@@god47398 Have you missed all the school students in all school and outdoors scenes ? As for little kids, they are likely just didn't want to draw more. However, there are women with infants, like in Miwako teleportation scene in Gouto's story.
It takes a lot of stupidity to play through the entirety of 13 Sentinels and come away with the opinion that the AI people aren't real, something which goes against everything the game is trying to tell you.
The existence of Sector 0 and the versions of several characters that jumped the loop by having Universal Control simulate fully conscious and autonomous copies based on the data of their memory scans proves that the simulated population of the Sectors consists of fully sentient individuals.
Which makes them equal subjects to the humans as far as most moral considerations are concerned.
Ogata's "I don't give a shit about my limits"
It's still the coolest shit, absolute king.
The two things I learned from this entire LP is that Woolie "Chemicals" Madden lacks empathy unless it lines up with what he would do, and that he approves a Black Mirror future of punishing bad people.
Man Rohan you're always on point. i wanted to say something similar but you said it way better.
@@Pebbleblast It's really amazing how much Woolie believes everyone thinks like him.
@@Pebbleblast is the amazing LP earnest or sarcastic?
@@gameb9oy it's amazing if u want to sitdown to see woolie making 0 progress in multiple 1hr episodes.
Well, I was very amazed by the LP… just not in the conventional way…
one thing that kinda annoyed me during this is that i don't think woolie or pat actually understood the point of the 'NPCs' and that it wasn't 'they were AIs so therefore they aren't actually people or have inherent value'. half the relevant characters are 'AIs', and they're all copies of the same people who are also their own distinct individuals. a huge question and theme in the game is what actually defines what a 'person' even is if not a personality and lived personal experiences and it has a pretty clear answer to that. 426 is a copy of a copy of a copy, juro kurabe is LITERALLY an artificial construct that did not exist before tamao created him and put him in izumi's empty brain. the only difference is that he has biological hardware, and that's not a difference the game makes any sort of hay over.
none of the NPCs are meant to be simple robots living inside a routine, if they were then universal control would not be necessary in order to control them. if they were just robots that could only understand their routines miwako wouldn't have needed to be memory wiped and reset because getting transported to the 'future' would be so far outside the boundaries of her routine that she wouldn't even be able to recognize something was wrong. the reason that it's important for the 'NPCs' to be warped out of sector 4 is because they are, literally, lives worth saving. i thought that this was obvious when they literally mention installing the AIs into biological bodies and that's only not completely horrifying if you accept the premise that they are literally, already 'people'.
tldr miwako is real
Well one of Okino’s outstanding characteristics is that his personality is just a simulation of his original with backed up memories, and he debates Ei over how he doesn’t even think of himself as any different. There’s a whole theme of what exactly even counts as human anymore throughout the game.
@Morcego cinzento and yet these twochucklefucks refuse to see that
I think they should replay the game over some 5 more times to see if it gets through their skulls
Yupp, I totally agree with this.
Also this is the theme Dayvid Cayge totally FAILED to address in DBH.
Nah these guys are way to dense for that. They are on the old "only regular flesh humans are real" train.
Most of the plot and themes went over the head of both of these two, because... they are not very smart.
What Pat said about the outer walls as endless mesh with no bulkhead in sight making more sense as a computer thing is something I hadn't thought about, I thought it would be a white void for a simulation. I guess that mesh is the 3D equivalent of the texture failing to render in Source.
Outside the 15km radius of the city is just the farlands in Minecraft where the world generation doesn't know what to do anymore so it just makes an infinite repeating mesh.
Woolie: Megumi is an absolute trash with no respect for anyone's desires and feelings, and I despise her for it.
Anyway, here's a reason why we should put all of the people willing to redeem themselves into a fake universe to survey them for an unknown amount of time - probably a few hundred years - and decide by ourselves whenever or not to let them out.
(Yes Woolie, this is a joke, I still think that this idea is super dumb and heartless, but I don't mean it as a jab at you, don't take it that way)
But do take it as a jab tho
@@qeridexis8604 yeah it should be a jab into low forward into fireball
@@qeridexis8604 NO! Don’t say that! Always make Darlington feel wrong! Always make him feel outnumbered for his wrong opinions!
I don't have enough balls to be this mean, unfortunately.
"one of the worst things you can do to your story is saying it was all a dream. it removes all consequences from your story"
all i can hear is pat saying, 'i screwed up that dnd game because they can just say it didnt happen'
The moment I went from not really liking Megumi to really liking her, is when she gets to Iori, and says, "No, this is for me." because she recognizes she's wrong, but now she feels she's too far in and afraid what will happen if she stops.
megumi doesn't even do anything though. like, seriously, all she does is make him food and be nice to him and ask him to be a little nice to her, and he runs away from her because he thinks he's going to hurt her. the only conflict between the two is: "i needed a place to stay and your grandma said i could stay here. by the way i made dinner :)" to which juro replies "whAT?!?! A GiRl anD a GUy lIvINg TOgeTHer?? hOw ScanDoLOus!!!!" while secretly thinking "oh my god shes so perfect but i need to stay away from her or i might hurt her".
"Time travel is ridiculous, but let's keep in the grounded level of technology like teleportation"
Since they were in pods the entire time, isnt the teleportation also not real?
@@pketr5 That's actually really important, because someone does allude to some parts of Quantum Mechanics that make certain forms of teleportation impossible or infeasible. Early clue that it's all a simulation.
“It will be a short spoiler cast”
"We'll just talk about the ending" or w/e he said.
It is pretty short.
As these things go for these two...
Yeah, p'short.
True but I could hear a full 3 hours for a spoilercast
I like miwako as much as the next guy, but woolie hating megumi for stalker behavior, but liking miwako who is on record taking pictures of gouto without him knowing is throwing me for a loop lol
Woolie's views are so twisted. But he probably didn't even think about that since no harm came from Miwako but Megumi made Juro uncomfortable (by accident!) and shot people. Woolz only gets riled up when defending a victim. So he doesn't even notice his own double standards.
Miwako's stalking is "Teenagers be dumb / crazy" level, Megumi's is "Imma invite myself in your house and rewrite your whole personality" level.
The gap between the two is so vast that I can easily understand why one would be (more) OK with Miwako while still disliking Megumi...
That and the fact that the game "validates" Megumi's stalking by having her end up with Juro which is just... Yikes.
@@hondshoven8477 dawg this was a year ago lol
@@pl4y4hpl4ys dawg the game released on switch last month lol
@@hondshoven8477 ok? The thread is still a year old
i love when woolie gets mad, says hes not gonna discuss it further, then sealions the already gone subject back into conversation
Time to show off for Yuki Chan
I read somewhere that that line is supposed to be him "putting on a show", AKA changing his personality and demeanor the same way Ida tried to change for Tomi. Makes that line better
Yeah, that was a major part of Shu’s character, he puts on the loverboy persona because he thinks that will get him the girl, when being himself is ultimately what she likes.
By the way woolie talks about Megumi you would think she's the main antagonist in this game lol
Has Woolie figured out yet that in 2188 Okino was arguing AGAINST sending out Project Ark, and that Ogata had changed his mind because of the wild change in circumstances? Izumi's earlier scene showed that he was willing to put his life on the line for a thread of hope, I don't think the shootout contradicts that, and it's not as simple as "was he a good guy or bad guy."
Wait had 2188 Ogata changed his mind my interpretation of the shootout was that Ogata bringing guns lead to Izumi going "fuck it" and just starts shooting.
@@ReplacementBlue My interpretation is that everyone was already on edge because of the explosion and the energy issue, Ogata brought armed dudes just to be safe, Okino was being the most stubborn and that Izumi ended up shooting him out of frustration/desperation. They didn't count on Takatoshi pulling a John Wick and killing everyone armed though.
@@ivanrodeiro9661 hmmmmmm yeah that would make sense
@@ReplacementBlue Morimura had to leak the Nanomachines to the black market to get the funding to continue the Ark cause Ogata didn't agree with it and was cutting funding. At that time, Earth and humanity are still alive. It's not until Morimura leaks the Nanomachines that eventually got infected leads to the extinction of humanity. My interpretation was once that happened Ogata went 'The world is basically dead. You still got that fucking Ark, right? Cause we sending it!'
@@MH4wheel Yeah, but for some fucking reason that never clicked in Woolie's head
It was really interesting to hear Pat take on the ending. As expected, he considers all the AIs as not real persons and he doesn't care about their fates, but he does make the correct observation that as more information is given, the scope of the danger becomes more and more personal, keeping his attention. I just find it amazing that the game is good enough in making you care about the characters that even missing half of the message still leaves you with a satisfying end conflict and resolution.
All the cool sci-fi shit in this game and the guys talked a lot about high schooler relationships.
somehow this still isn't long enough to go over everything that needs to be gone over
Cause woolie had to bitch about megumi for nearly an hour.
@@NeoBluereaper Megumin ? :] I don't think that he watched KonoSuba, his judgementalism would have him explode.
These two aren't smart enough for more than this. Check out NicoB's 10 hour spoiler stream video instead.
Pat is 100% right about the Megumi thing and Woolie is stupid and wont realize that the ONLY reason Juro ever pushed Megumi away is cause he's terrified of killing her cause of his dreams even though it is EXPLICITLY AND CLEARLY stated in the game. Woolie is riding his "bad relationship" bandwagon too hard. She never actually stalks him even.
When Pat is being correct and has more tolerant takes than you, sometimes it's really good to step back to see where you went wrong.
Juro's brain is being fucked with too, so him not wanting Megumi around is void because he wasn't capable of making rash decisions at the time, because he's not sound of mind. In the real world Megumi is the friend that Juros mom asked to look after because she's worried he'll hurt himself.
Edit: Megumi just wanted prevent him from getting his mind replaced. it wasn't just case she liked him.
@@leeohx7174 Right, so it was just looking out for Juro's health when she leapt at the first questionable entity that promised to remind Juro that he's Izumi, going straight against Tamao's own request. Also, Tamao still isn't Juro. If your argument is "Juro's so insane he can't make any decisions" then we'll just fundamentally disagree, it's not even worth debating the amount that Juro likes Megumi or not at that point.
I was 100% behind Pat on the Megumi situation and thinking he was being the reasonable one for once... And then he started with the "it's okay if these fully sentient AI are assaulted in an allyway, they are not real, who cares" bit for no reason and I had to quit the podcast for 15 minutes out of frustration.
UGH.
@@ivanrodeiro9661 You can agree and disagree with opinions from 1 person
This will probably be my last comment on this issue, Woolie's opinion on Megumi during the playthrough is hilariously bent and he honestly went full Pat when talking about her. Also not helping that his only counter argument was Reggie who's even worse than him because his only argument is "food" (seriously tho, Reggie, what the hell man?).
On the other hand, I cant believe it take Pat of all people for Woolie to have a rather normal discussion about Megumi. Was expecting it to go the same way like their discussion on Sekigahara if anything.
The way Woolie is with Megumi is like how Pat was with Darth Vader.
Food tho
I honestly think Reggie just didn't wanna bother getting into a spat with Woolie. When Woolie pushes, Reggie almost never pushes back and just retreats, its not exclusive to this LP. He just laughs it off and let Woolie have the win instead of turning it into a thing.
Yeah, Reggie was trying to throw in there that Megumi was doing it all for Juro Izumi, but Woolie, being how he is, decided to just LATCH on to the "food" bit and ride it into the ground as to completely negate any argument Reggie could've thrown out. It's a shame really
@@NekoKujo6785 They really are meant to be together.
Man, and here i was hoping, that in nearly two hours, we would discuss a bit more than woolie's constant "but those relationships aren't healthy."
Well woolie when there are only 10 people left you don't really get to be too picky about the details of the relationship and maybe restarting humanity MIGHT take priority
yeah its really a bit frustrating how long he harps on the subject... it sucks that this seems to be his main take away from such an incredibly cool sci-fi story. as if high schoolers stuck in a looping nightmare simulation are going to have perfectly healthy relationships that we should seek to emulate. some weird virtue signaling or something going on with him and this topic
Get on Nicob's level.
Yeah I agree with Pat, he gets the social climate back then being captured correctly can mean problems but you can enjoy it without actively hunting for those problems all the time.
I guess I was the only one that liked the fact that 2188 Ei felt like it was his moral duty to kill Morimura. He gives off the feeling that once he knows what she did he would have done the job pro bono. I fall a little bit pray to the hot morally gray, but I also like hitmen with depth. Since the rest of him is kinda of milk toast, and you only see him for one scene, it at least allows him the illusion of depth which I can always appreciate.
Hes a piece is shit monster but hes killing the worst monster in history. And doing his job.
And looking damn good doing it.
... The Ai has been repeatedly stated that it's so advance that it's indistinguishable from normal people (file no.216) people are literally programming themselves into Ai constructs... Miwako and those other ai's aren't a damn chair! They may not be based on specific people but their sophistication does show humanity. That's literally why Miwako exists as a character to show you that the random Ai is still sentient. Still worth preserving and not worth treating like random bits of data that mean nothing. Literally they are over a million variations of people of a by gone era for the kids to reference humanity.
@Morcego cinzento haha true. There was one detail related to that that seems overlooked. Juro gets more uncomfortable over time because in his story he is understanding his dreams are memories. One of those memories are of him killing her. So yeah he would feel pretty anxious about that. In other words the motivation for his discomfort is from this revelation and not because of the unease of unwanted attention which is a hot button topic here in the west. I get it though. But there is a clear narrative motivation for it and not just a hmmm boundaries issue.
@Morcego cinzento @Morcego cinzento lol that's right! Ogata's intro was definitely meant to set him at a very low bar. It's just a bit odd how hard they get on her for it but Okino's is so much more nefarious and manipulative, cultural boundaries and rules of courtship aside, is absolutely detestable. Which is great writing because it adds a lot of shades to Okino so I'm down for the slime it's entertaining af. But yeah I definitely like woolie's madness about this whole thing actually. It's fun lol I want more tin hat wearing shotgun blasting random guessing. Kinda felt like he was getting a bit left out to dry. Not getting enough back and forth (in the lp. The chat seems to be giving him a hard time) despite the narrative designed top to bottom to indulge in it. Hopefully it doesn't discourage him from doing more of it in the future. It makes for fun if not outlandish talks lol
I played this whole game, loved it, but also excited to finally go back and listen to this. 140 minutes and they talked about NOTHING
One of my favorite Pat moments of all time was his first elevator pitch for 13 Sentinels, it sold me pretty much instantly, and now it's my favorite story of the decade. Thanks BB.
Spoilers for 13 Sentinels:
I fucking hate Ida so much. I hate is creep-ass manipulative personality, I hate how slimy he is in every scene, I hate how selfish he is in the face of extinction. I can't believe the game managed to make me forgive him, this game is so good.
Also, there is a shocking amount of post-game battles, and it is SHOCKING how easy it is to break this game's balance over one's knee. Big tip, Super Big Missile+Point Regen. Upgrades+Instant Turn Reset Terminal Upgrade=Instant Win.
Natsuno Best Girl, Hijiyama Best Boy, and Woolie is super wrong about Megumi
I've heard post game goes to 10,000 battles.
warning: Woolie has the same end-goals similar if not worse than Ida when he, Reggie and Punchmom did their Final Thoughts on the game
I think the important is that everyone enjoyed the game higly despite they wrong opinion about why is good or what is good in it, just keep shilling it.
Woolie needs to chill with the associative stuff. Legit made Ei Sekigahara sound like an abuser until he clarified he was talking about someone he knew.
Everyday it gets harder to defend Woolie and I'm losing the will to do it
Baby rage starts now
Only if your bad at paying attention
It happens all the time and is really annoying for everyone involved. Woolie gets annoyed because Pat doesn't understand him, Pat gets confused because Woolie starts taking about his opinion on a completely different situation and we get annoyed because we see them go in circles for a while.
Woolie, if you want to comment about your opinion on a completely different situation, then first cut your opinion on the original situation and THEN change to the new situation, don't just chain them together, it makes you look like a crazy person who doesn't have their facts straight.
That said, after the 13 Sentinels LP and seeing how strong Woolie headcanon is, I am starting to doubt if on most cases he really is talking about a different situation or he is just horribly misremembers the events he is commenting on.
There is zero reason to defend woolie for this playthrough. The amount of wrongs he got in this playthrough are hilarious insane.
im reminded of Liam and Warren.
Thank fuck pat dragged woolie kicking and screaming through parts of this spoilercast. Cause holy fuck woolie was adamant in keeping the wheels spinning for pretty much an hour
I think you are missing a layer of the loop, failure to resolve the problem doesn't mean the colonization project is a failure, it just means that the pod facility would be demolished and rebuilt, and since the sector 0 hard drive resides inside the facility all knowledge of the loops of that 5000 years will be physically lost. so of that 20 million years there is no telling how many 5000 year long loops have occurred because the facility needed to be rebuilt.
But at what point does the facility run out of the resources that it gathered from asteroids along the way to the destination planet? Will it use the planet's resources instead? If so, how much, so as not to leave behind an unacceptably low amount avalible to the humans that eventually emerge? I assume renewable energy is a factor, but I just don't see the point of destroying and rebuilding the facility in the same location as that process would be a waste of resources.
@@PredictableEnigma Remember these are self replicating robots not people, fhere could be a line of solar systems 1200 light years long that have swarms of automated robots inhabiting it, stripping every uninhabitable planet to its molten core, star a dyson sphere and continuously pumping resources at sublight for the past 20 million years, probably not but I'm sure there is enough raw material on that planet they are on that was deemed suitable to repopulate humanity that the D's have been mining for god knows how long and rebuilding a facility that looks like the size of a convenience store be a burden.
Also rebuilding that facility to poop out the 15 is the reason the entire project exists so, I'm pretty sure rebuilding it is priority number 1, also remember having a loop going on for eons was never intended, its just a fail safe kicking in, if it wasn't for Shinonome doing the nono they only reason they wouldn't leave the pod first try is maybe like, the growing phase failed and you have defective clones or something.
I have never watched a single bit of 13 Sentinels. But the length of the Spoilercast is *ominous* .
the game is half off right right now on PSN, go and play it.
otherwise yes binge the LP
I mean NicoB had an 8 hour discussion on the finer details of the game if you want ominous.
As intimidating as certain moments at the character select screen for Woolie.
There is a character who manages to [spoilers]
destroy all of humanity after creating a means to save all of humanity, shoots her love, ride mechs, ride horny with a boy on a motorcycle, do classic anime tropes such as run into someone and then pantyshot, manipulate young boys as a hot teacher/nurse, and even become a thousand+ year old loli.
If you find these facts interesting, give the game a try.
And it barely goes into anything of worth about the game because of Woolie's gripes with anime relationships
45:16 keep in mind, Juro K is talking to Shiba the whole time. Someone only HE see's and Megumi is actually concerned while she's being manipulated by Fluffy who only she talks to. Fluffy and Shiba being tge same person
1:25:30 Here's another interesting thought to the terraforming humanity virus: What if the probes encounter a planet that already has life on it? Will they decide to terraform then anyway, wiping out the existing life? What if that life is intelligent enough to be able to fight back? Will the terraforming AI then adapt to have weapons too, turning into real Kaiju?
1:34:35 There's actually some real world basis for some of these things, which would be epigenetics. There's experiments for example where they can train rats to be afraid of a certain noise and then even the next generation of rats is also afraid of that noise despite never having heard it before.
On the subject of the cop, Onishi, Woolie was complaining because a cop saw somebody talking to some girls and didn't drag them downtown on the spot. For funsies, here's my original comment on the subject:
Chief: Look, you see one of those boys, black hair, black clothes, just a whole lotta blackness, talking to blonde girls, you bring 'em in. Doesn't matter what they've done, you drag them downtown and give 'em a good scare. It's important to have a name for 'em - they wear a bunch of wool, so we've been calling 'em woolies.
Recruit: Did you just use a hard w?!
For reals, no crimes were actually being committed until the alleyway part
AND they're also *kids*
. You I u
Ah, of course, Megumi is bad: she and Kurabe have wrong chemicals and you can't have them mix, brudda !
What the world would come to otherwise ? it's just the only morally neat thing to do.
Also, only humans are people… because of the Dark Soul, you see.
Are the simulation people loaded in when a main character isn't looking at them? Do they turn the corner, A pose and despawn?
The end of this game needed to have NPC's falling through the floor and cars randomly glitching out during the kaiju invaision
The woolie Neo-World Program needs to be animated
Wait, what happened to Megumi during the shootout? Are we sure it wasn't Izumi holding the hand of a young Megumi holding a gun who shot Okino?
I'm only here for the spoilers
Two things: One, Ogata only had a chance is because he literally got a repeated groundhogs day loop to sort out his feelings, pat's right.
Also Woolie complaining about the cop guy, he is complaining about a person that doesn't exist, not in the AI sense, but in the sense that he's disappointed of a preconception of the character.
So we're just going to ignore that the delinquent crew cornered the girls too?
@@jfp4life Oh no he is a piece of shit, but Onishi being a bastard is independent of any percieved posible nobility of the character.
@@fabiangamboa1714 I mean hes called fuckin Onishi the Ogre
@@SnippyFilly114 fair enough!
You are tearing me apart Ida!
Oh hai Gouto
For 13 Sentinels to catch on in popularity, the West has to overcome their views on Visual Novels. But we know they won’t. Plus, the fact that this is a very mind fucky kinda game will make most people shy away from it, due to it being not easy to understand and digest. This is unfortunately a niche game that will not click with a lot of people, and it’s probably gonna stay that way.
Also, Woolie, your opinions regarding Juro and Megumi are incorrect. Back down from that flimsy hill, it’s not worth dying on.
ooh "the west"
scary
@@miguelnewmexico8641 Oh.....YOU!!!!
Woolie's fucking plot-gun I stg
"Miura's line tricks you" No, Woolie, it tricked YOU!!
Will Woolie ever realize 2188 Ogata had a change of heart about Project Ark after the world went to shit? We just don't know
Woolie no, Juro starts running away from her in school because he's afraid he's gonna hurt her like in his murder dreams. HE LITERALLY TELLS HER THAT, TO HER FACE, IN NO ROUNDABOUT TERMS
Tamao ANDROID from one loop ago created the Juro Kurabe personality
"It doesn't make sense to expect her to act that way" THEN WHY ARE YOU HARPING SO HARD ON HER WOOLIE HOT DAMN
"Yandere" NOOO!! WTH WOOLIE, THAT'S RYOKO NO MEGUMI???
Reggie TRIED to make more points above food but YOU kept coming back to it!!
I can't believe Pat completely missed out on the point of the AI Lifeforms inside the Simulation and why they matter as PEOPLE
Both of them are just not really smart enough for this game.
@@Takfloyd damn nigga. If you're gonna be that toxic against ppl with different opinions on a dumb video game, then man I can't even imagine what a loser you might be IRL. Like, calm tf down.
I've never actually had the feeling until watching this that I may be seeing someone who OVERprioritizes consent
Just something to add to the 16 old brains. I remember some study that showed that it's not only a matter of incomplete brains, but that *certain skills especially regarding to empathy actually become worse again during teenage years* than they were as children. In other words, teenagers are a55holes. Moreso than both children and adults. So things like Okino being an a55 or Megumi being too intrusive are likely to naturally disappear once they have a complete brain at 25 years old. That said, Megumi's decision to shoot people with a gun she doesn't know what it does is not something that can be justified that way, even if it didn't come from a cat. Realistically she might have some sort of mental deficiency or psychological disorder.
My 2020 GOTY
1:28:25 Not quite everybody. Brain fried Juro Izumi actually did die effectively. Same for Ryoko and arguably partially Sekigahara. (And of course the hundreds of loops before that.)
I hate whenever Pat's argument boils down to "...but it is/isn't though." It's where the line between his "hyperbole Pat" and "actual weirdo Pat" blurs so much that I can't tell who he's playing as.
1:15:00 ish, when Pat gets like that, you don’t even want to engage with him, might as well just talk into the air.
after playing the entire game i can say that i agree with all these comments, these two knuckleheads spent two entire hours talking about basically absolutely fucking nothin that's actually interesting.
Yea it’s hilarious
This is what I have been waiting for
Btw isn't this plot kinda close to Big O's twist?
my man
Finally!
Didn't play the game but listening to this anyway. Where do I fall on the alignment chart?
Chaotic evil
Chaotic bored
Waited months for this cast only for Pat's mic to be shit.
I guessed it was a simulation at the dented beam
I hope the success of this doesn't kill Vanillawares action games.
Why would it VW have done games like this between action games before.
By success you mean the most poorly selling one?
Woolie thinks that when the facility falls apart, that's the FINAL LOOP, and humanity never restarts on the planet. This is not true. Instead, it's implied that there will be a "harder reset", because the drones will pave over and RECONSTRUCT the facility for a fresh 5000-year lifespan, which resets sector 0, and even the satellite so Miyuki Inaba wouldn't have been spared. So humanity would still have a chance on each of the planets where the facility collapses, because it would keep getting rebuilt by the self-renewing drones on the planet.
It will never cease to amaze and frustrate me how much Woolie misunderstood this game. There were so many points during the LP where the game would say a thing, Woolie would pause and come to the exact OPPOSITE conclusion to what the game JUST EXPLICITLY STATED NOT THIRTY SECONDS PRIOR.
Ei won
Woolie couldnt be more wrong about Megumi but AI this advanced are just people, Miwako is the best and is real to me. Only reason I finished those battles is so she could her crepes
*Woolie asking why Izumi had to be a shit with his approach to everything*
Me: I don’t know Woolie, have you looked at this Grahf?
I think the only problem with the Okino x Hijiama relationship is the brain reading scene and it could be that Okino could see in Hijiama's brain where is actual limit was and that while he was putting up a fuss he was still enjoying it more than not, kinda similar to a safe word with bdsm. At least that's what I'm gonna tell myself.
I have no idea what they are taking about
So wait, Pat didn't stream Sentinel 13?
Anyone know what episode this is?
Are Kurabe, Natsuno, and Miura the closest we got to purity? Everyone else feels like they had some moments of uhh or ugh.
Uh... Tamao (not No.18 with the cut body takeover plot) is pretty cool and Miwako is a cinnamon bun aside from sneaking Gotou pics. As far as we know Okino 2LA seemed like a stand up guy, and we never see how the other kids 1LA were like.
Humanity isn't perfect
Double fuck you on Pat's cop-out for "they aren't real" because the literal second to last line of the game was "we're working on giving the AI in the simulation real bodies" so they will be real people, and that cop is gonna need some re-training when he wakes up in a flesh body. So yes it's a valid criticism
this is very telling about reggie
I know I'm months late to the conversation at this point but still. I get where Woolie is coming from regarding Megumi and Kurabe, but he completely missed the game explicitly stating that Kurabe is only pushing her away because he has constant dreams of murdering Megumi and their friends.
Edit: Just got the one of Pat's absolute worst takes ever regarding the AI characters. Oh boy.
I quit watching the 13 Sentinels streams because of how much overanalyzation and weird timewasting tangents there were (plus how long it took) but according to the comments they STILL didn't get it.
So was the hypocrisy that 2188 Ida was talking about the fact that everyone was like cloning themselves to be messiahs of like the human race and like wanting to back themselves up after finding 2188 Chihiros back up data?
Also I actually want to discuss this and I know they touched on it in the videos, but has anyone figured out the order when people died on the colony in 2188? Cause as they go through logs the number goes from 15, to 10, to just 3. We already know it was just Ida 2188 and Ryoko 2188 as the last two, but It’s more so about figuring out the order of events
1:43:06 That's Ragyo, bro
Ngl Megumi is probably my favorite character and Juro/Megumi is my favorite ship.
wait... 13 Sentinels... The Thirteenth Floor...
coincidence?
This game has a reference to every sci-fi movie I've seen in my life, so yeah let's roll with that.
Woolie is so wrong
Remember also for Juro "rejecting" Megumi:
As said, Juro is f...d in the head but also: Have you consider JAPAN 1985.
Yeah, living with a girl that is your age and NOT your kin in 1985 Japan? OUCH...
That's why he doesn't want people to know that they are living together.
It's cultural.
Also, I played in japanese and watch your playthrough, there is a lot that doesn't translate well in the VA... Even tho the VA is pretty good.
Okay. Fine. I'll bite. I havent watched the video yet, and I don't plan to, so someone tell me, with no spoilers, what the fuck IS this game? Sell me on it.
You still on?
MVPs are obviously Gouto, Ogata, Takamiya, Muira, and Mr. Yaksoba Pan himself Hijiyama.
Honorable Mentions to Tomi, Sekigahara, Izumi, and Okino.
Miwako gets her own tier by herself for being so damn cute and awesome.
Everyone else is okay.
Shinonome is still the worst with Ida being slightly above her.
I SUPPORT WOOLIE AND PAT AND LOVE CASTLE SUPER BEAST
I loved this game to death. Easily my 2020 GOTY that didn't have "Persona" in the title.
I could not for a single moment believe any of the relationships in this game, aside from Hijiyama x Okino, because it's two types of socially awkward intermingling, and maybe Miura x Minami because fluff.
Not even HijiyamaXYakisoba Pan? Or even MorimuraXLatex?
@@Dragon4234 Shit, got me with those. Both relationships dependent on food, funny enough.
I will never play the game but I will listen to Woolie talk about it.
You should play it
@@LordlyWeeb I watched the first couple episodes of Woolie playing it and it looked pretty boring tbh
@@YetiCoolBrother The game looks boring cuz the combat is more fun to play than it is to watch, and most of the insane things happening will be revealed through text.
@@LordlyWeeb I don't think a lot of people would enjoy going through all that. Lotta reading in this game.
@@NekoKujo6785 I hate reading and I love this game. It's fully voiced anyways
Is Wookie some white knight simp? Sheesh
I think Woolie needs professional help. He seems far too close minded for it to be healthy.
INB4 all the inevitable baby-rage over Woolie's "hot" relationship takes.
That's why im here. to be fair his relationship mindset is weird if you listen to the post-talk on his channel.
Baby rage. Isn't that what Woolie has been doing all LP?
Oh damn, so cool.
They're pretty garbage takes bro.
@@LordlyWeeb You're welcome!
the only thing Megumi that could honestly be considered "stalking" is waiting for him by the school gates and when he goes to his next class. never followed him home, never steal his clothes to smell, or follow him outside of school but Ogata trying to sneak into the girls' changing room to get a peek is considered wholesome. yep, Woolie " The Love Docter" Madden in the house
This was pretty clearly all a simulation. The fact that the game treats this as some big reveal is weird.
it was never clear that it was a simulation. especially depending on the order you play story events.
you don't really get an obvious hint of that until Shu hits the barrier of the city or Natsuno has that talk with BJ. all the 2188 flashbacks seemed like messages from the future or in the case of tamao's case that when she was "out of town" she was actually in an orbiting space station after timetraveling
@@KeroKaminaX Sorry, maybe I should have said "It was pretty clear to me." Something about it just said simulation or dream or it's not real.
@Morcego cinzento How the hell is it "poorly designed" ? It's perfect.
Although, I still don't understand how I missed or dismissed the virtual part. Maybe because I didn't want to believe that right until ending Tamao scene with genius explanation why it's done so to begin with.
@Morcego cinzento You mean categorized ? I though so too. They are actually categorized but put in line without additional subcategory menu. I think far worse problem with them is that "new" status is removed after scrolling past, like Woolie does. It should have required holding a button to change status between "new/notice" and "watched".
As for "reveals", I think that it how it's intended. At no point I though that game showed something you didn't know or couldn't deduce already, like a spy. The "virtual" part baffles me though but it didn't spoil me, somehow. And I've paid really close attention here and in NicoB's LP.
Wall of text. Big opinions. Spoilers.
I guess no one is going to mention that a lot of character's plot points were completely dropped in favor of others. I prefer Iori over Natsuno completely, and Megumi over both of them.
Natsuno's entire gameplay is actually playing the wheelchair of the actual character BJ. And as a character, Natsuno ignores all her friends, confronts nothing except with the risk that she should be attacked and survives continuously, there should have been a point where Ogata talked to Natsuno to give her the key, and her relationships (Yuki is barely there, Juro is a scifi buddy who gets dumped with Miura who she only interacts with when he looks for her, and only makes assumptions that happen to be correct.) Her story is ET with a being who knows the secrets of the universe, and she never asks any questions; she gets the answer bot of everything and tells no one anything that the bot could say is crucial to know. It's just BJ's story.
Iori is refered to as, "she's just horny" and I would agree, but my issue is that there are several scenes where she's trying to figure things out, and she does more than a lot of the female cast. She tries to tell juro about her dreams as well as the ufo, and that goes no where, and after that, it's just here and Ei, which I found completely disappointing.
Yuki's story is one of the worst, by that Tamao is following her and manipulating her memories, but for no known reason is it important. There is at no point in the game that Tamao controlled by 426-izumi is trying to get Yuki to get any info from Ida, which would make a massive amount of sense. In fact, Ida doesn't really play any good role by trying to recruit Yuki. Her story helps others, but despite having a goal of her own, the story doesn't make it all that important to them.
Fuck Ryoko. She forgot her childhood friend and is hunting him as a terrorist without question, obeys Ida as a doll, infects Ei's sentinel, and despite the nurse and Gouto knowing what happened to the sentinel's do nothing but allow this troubled more than anyone teen, take a gun and hunt across the sectors without control.
"Megumi is absolute trash..." Fuck that! She's trying to restore her handicapped bf's memories and willing to make a deal with the devil to shoot kids for it. I empathize with her goals completely and she wasn't going to do it if it was going to kill anyone anyway. And the no respect to Juro is Juro wanting her to leave regardless of her contract, which is the entire issue from his point. Not to mention, Natsuno literally abandons Miura on Juro.
----------------------------------
The entire game relies on one time things. Juro kills everyone but Ida is why Tomi was rebuilt, which is why she was put into a sentinel, which is why she was transfered into the space station, which is the only reason the game has a success as well. The timer started regardless, so the world would have been invaded regardless of the d code as far as we can tell. None of this would have happened if Morimura, Okino and Izumi made it to sector 0 SOMEHOW!!!!
----------------------------------
Professor Morimura did destroy humanity by selling nano machines on the black market, but in her defense, she was just following Kouji's direction in manipulating her so he can be revived, WHICH SHE DIDN'T DO, selling the machines was to get more funding to FINISH the Ark project, which was already by the beginning was an honest project constantly being fucked by Gouto and Nenji for no reason but to establish colonies. She did nothing wrong beyond trying to lead humanity by transferring her mind into Iori, but they would have needed a leader to a degree, which means she was NEVER going to revive Kouji or at least, let him be the new leader of humanity.
The real question is why was Gouto and Nenji's dna stored at all?
Damn y'all really coming at woolie on this one chill out on my guy 😂
Second comment and then I'm gone.
Why do people like Natsuno and Miwako? I found them annoying especially Miwako doing nothing really substantial. I found everything Natsuno wasn't doing to be what I dislike about her. Besides that, she has no real relationship scenes in the game that matter besides Miura, who her actions make me dislike a bit more even.
Just thier innocence and positive attitude most likely.
I don’t like the final twist. The game has about 4 twists, each subverting the expected understanding of the world. The first impression is that you have an invasion by monsters that moves backwards in time. Then the game makes you think that it is actually parallel worlds being invaded, and the characters jump back through time across multiple instances. Then the THIRD twist makes you think that there are four sectors co-existing and the invasion moves through these sectors, with the protagonists having to reset the sectors when they fail, being rebuild by nanotechnology, etc.
That third impression was the most interesting to me.
And then the FOURTH twist - “IT WAS ALL A SIM!”
Goddamn Plato’s F-ing cave nonsense. Prey 2017 did the same damn thing, and it’s my most hated twist. It doesn’t ruin the game for me, I still enjoyed it, but I did not like the final twist.
Except that it's great, they somehow out-matrixed the Matrix. And ending to Prey 2017 is awesome.
The reason why it's great is "the moral of the story". They were distracting you from it the whole time and then Tamao 2188 comes out and says it: "it's all about THE MEMES, Juro, the DNA of the soul !".
I agree, but i didn't even want the sector story. Once it started dropping hints of that I was hoping it was something else or a half measure with at least SOME time travel, because i honestly wanted a good time travel story with lots of other sci fi elements (like androids, mecha, and nanobots) thrown in.
I still thought the game was great though.
Seems like people don’t like the Wookiee take on Megumi cause I was all into that shit since I don’t think her character is that decent in general. She’s lackluster, especially when you have all these other characters. Plus the whole Juro/Megumi ship kinda irks me cause the basis of their relationship is surrounded by genetic sexual attraction n I’m like nah tho
I just don’t like Megumi lmao that’s really it she’s nothin special
ok?
genetic sexual attraction..? What..??
Horizon Zero Dawn was in my opinion a far more interesting and unique take on the whole world being ended by technology angle, it felt a lot more realistic, horrifying and believable and the lore pay off is great, especially if you know the kore implications as to why there's a sequel for it.
13 sentinels on the other hand, at least in my opinion, just felt like it just kept losing steam the more it revealed. The entire story is just way too filled with "animeisms" for me to take a lot of it seriously, or at least as seriously as it wanted to be taken. Also, while it was interesting to see it reference other sci-fi properties, I feel like it did it way too much to the point that the references were the only reason some of the events were even interesting in the first place, as in, the thing that was happening wasn't interesting in its own right, but only because it was a reference to something we already know about.
Also, half way through I called the ending basically being similar to Darling in the Franxx, so in my opinion, it really doesn't feel like this games story is as original as people are trying to claim, I mean, you are free to like it if you want, but it isn't as impressive or original of you have played or seen shows in with a similar type of plot.
This game stands out is the way it presents the information to the player as you go through the story. I personally haven't played Horizon, but I can understand comparing it to the world building of this game may not be as interesting. The main appeal I think for most people including myself is the journey to the end that makes this game amazing.
man horizon dumped all of its plot in one room through audio logs it's really not that interesting
Nah
Horizon and 13 Sentinels have a really similar situation, both being man-made extinction events made by greedy misuse of technology that force the survivors to design a way of restarting humanity after they were gone that went wrong because of the actions of an idiot. You even need similar technology, as both require extremely effective methods of production, the ability to make life out of a template and terraforming capabilities, but I wouldn't say that Zero down is more realistic.
For one, while ZD is more reduced in scope (staying on earth and all), the apocalypse is also much more severe. ZD extinction event eliminated all forms of life in the planet, including bacteria. Considering that you can make the planet explode and some bacteria would still survive then no, the level of destruction made by the Faro machines is absurd. And having life already exist in the planet makes the reinsertion attempts much more troublesome, specially over such insane amount of time. in 13 Sentinels is just humanity the one screwed over.
ZD also shows a much less integrated technology. They already have nanomachines, yet the integration with humans that is shown in 13 Sentinels (and you can bet that a miracle cure like nanomachines would be implemented on humans ASAP) is non-existant in ZD. ZD also has no excuse to not look at at least Lunar inhabitation as a solution, they already had the technology and they had MUCH more time, people and resources that the scientists on 13 Sentinels had. The Faro plague also had no way of following them out of orbit, unlike the nanomachine infection in 13 Sentinels. They did had the "send a ship to the stars" project, which sadly failed miserably, but that is not the only way of using space to your benefit, and if you are already going to spend the rest of your time in a completely sealed bunker, you may as well do it on the moon where a leak is much easier to fix before everyone dies.
On the other hand, 13 Sentinels survival project is the repurposing of an already existing space colonization program, which goes a long way in explaining many of the rougher details in the plan.
Last, but this is just a personal point, I am not so sure about the hints that the Faro plague lethality comes from Deep Silver, probably because the idiot used it as a base for his new machines AI after losing Elizabeth. Deep Silver was a accident, it's omnicidal tendencies came from nowhere and having that be the catalyst behind all the problems in the story, even if it has been enabled by the idiocy of so many humans, feels cheap. I like HADES, because I understand its motivation, it just wants to do what it was made to do and since the official protocol was sent to hell it is trying to get to the same outcome by different means, but Deep Silver motivation is that it just want to kill everything, and I find that boring.
Better yet, the Project Ark in 13 Sentinels is based on current REAL-LIFE colonization concepts, it's not even fiction. How silly to call it out for "not being original" if it's all based on scientific plans. The damn simulation is a giant training game/self-movie for protagonists, orchestrated by director super-AI based on library of human history and culture, including anime.