Music Chat: I Am A Pompous A-Hole, Evidently
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2023
- I just wanted to share this particularly juicy message received from one RWS, objecting to my characterization of some works by Hans Rott. This is a juicy one, and especially demented for a number of reasons.
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I have to love an accusation of pomposity that starts "You, sir..."
The irony is too good.
Erik Satie sent a music critic a postcard with the following insult: "You, sir, are an asshole, and I might add, a most unmusical asshole". The critic sued Satie for libel and won.
lolz I cant believe that Brahms tried to blow up that train though... what an a22h0l3.
You have poo pooed some recordings and conductors that I have loved for years. And this only has caused me to look at the works more closely, and explore other recordings on your recommendation. Sometimes I come around to your views and sometimes I don't. And when I don't, I don't have the urge to flame you. Instead I appreciate your insights and knowledge. Thank you Dave.
A healthy attitude. I like some things Dave doesn't, but he's helped me discover so many great things, so that in the end it's all for the good.
Exactly
Totally with you on that.
Exactly!! I still love my beloved Osmo, even though he's critical. Its okay!!
How dare he! You are not pompous.
Joking aside, you are irreverent and humorous (things that are apparently still taboo in the saccharine holier-than-thou classical music scene), and that's why we love you
How dare you question the length of the RING! Oh sorry wrong video.....
Exactly!
The first time I listened to the Samuel/Cincinnati recording of Rott's symphony, I foolishly jumped out of my chair to answer the phone, only then realizing that it was the omnipresent triangle.
I believe that R.W.S. is the dedicatee of the lost 15th variation of Elgar's Enigma Variations. Elgar dropped the movement (subtitled "Dimrod") because he was such an A-Hole.
hehe.
Well; "There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." att. to Aristotle
I love this. I know this type of character. The number of times I get asked after concerts why I don’t play composer X instead of Beethoven or whoever! Composer X is almost always a 19th century composer whose obscurity is fully deserved.
I did perhaps one of the top 10 in temerity to no less than Vladimir Horowitz. In 1976, as he was was proceeding from his limousine to the stage entrance at Ambassador Auditorium in Pasadena Ca., I said from a safe distance, something along the lines that he should play the Liszt (completed by Busoni) Fantasy on The Marriage of Figaro again. Instead of being briskly shooed off by his entourage, he said "Yez, yez, I play dat."
We have lost discourse these days (too much anger). Keep going Dave, speak your heart on music : )
Your channel is amazing! Hours and hours and hours of education and entertainment wrapped in one! Truly a gift. Bless you!
Thanks for watching!
Not only are You a "Pompous A-Hole", You're brutally funny on top of that! I've been following Classics today intermittently for at least 20 years and the quality of the reviews have given me many "A-Ha" moments finding new repertoire and alternative favourite recordings of works I adore (and UCMG is marvellous entertaining visual branch of CT!)
If Rott used a tam tam instead of triangle in the symphony, it’d be a whole different scenario 😂 😉
Damn right!
You are an amazingly knowledgeable musicologist and speaker. I love your channel.
I suspect that Hans Rott and R.W.S caught the same train.
Hi Dave, to my opinion Your videos are treasure for classical music heritage and contribute a-lot to me, personally. Your channel is very much appreciated.
Thank you, Mr. RWS, for giving us all a good laugh. Great work, Dave! 😂
If I were in your shoes right now, I'd probably send him an email back with a picture of that wonderful t-shirt "Abnormal is fine, stupid is not". And maybe throw in a christmas discount. Telling these people to use their own minds and decide for themselves is probably the worst thing to do to them, because it leaves them nothing to fight nor to worship.
I like how it's your obligation to "absolve yourself" for the sake of a complete nobody.
BTW, the Hans Rott Society has an absolutely slammin' website that looks like it hasn't changed since 1995.
Dear Dave, I hardly miss any of your daily videos, except maybe those of detailed musicological analyses that my knowledge is not enough to understand. Your speech is always thorough and never prejudiced, although always direct and highly communicative.
Even in cases of artists I appreciate, such as Ferrier and Furtwangler, I find your technical objections to be well-founded; it's just that, for my taste, I am seduced by the atmosphere of the above artists' performances and I am deeply moved by it.
You are the best, Dave. I have purchased several of your books-snf found them scholarly, well researched and easy to read, being entertaining and chatty in many cases. Your daily video starts my day in a very positive way-a real antidote to the garbage going on the much of the world today.
Kol Hakavod!
Hate mail like this is a weapon much loved by more extreme cult members, who let their warped emotions dominate their intelligence. Your new videos are for me an immediate "go to" every day and I often refer to the older ones too. They are entertaining (e.g. the take-downs of Norrington) as well as highly informative, given your incredibly wide knowledge of the classical music scene. Keep them coming and don't change a thing in your style.
Incidentally Hans Rott is a new name for me and my curiosity is piqued. I'll look for CDs of some of his music.
I’ve heard some say that, but I don’t think so. You are very opinionated but not pompous in any way. And I wouldn’t call you an A-hole. I think you’re very well educated and present your thoughts in regular language, and yes…you are very firm in your opinions. That’s OK with me. I’m sort of the same way.
We more often agree. When we disagree, I like to do so with respect. Over the years, you’ve turned me on to a lot of recordings I had previously dismissed….mostly with the Dresden State Orch.
As always a very enjoyable talk, I love your sence of humour.
You hit the nail on the head when you said how cultish fans can't handle mixed and/or nuanced reviews and neither can many performers. I would say that 99 per cent of the hate mail I receive about my writing is in response to mixed reviews, but never in response to a negative review.
I really enjoy your work, Jed. It has been very helpful to me.
@@OuterGalaxyLounge I like Jed, too. Great insights on piano music in particular.
Hello, I've read a few of your things and have enjoyed them, especially your "Caped Crusader" piece on Raymond Lewenthal for the RCA/Columbia box. Been a big of his for over half a century, wrote him a few letters and talked with him on the phone a couple of times. He was gracious and patient, but not discursively.
Thank you for your kind words. I didn't know Mr. Lewenthal personally, but I did actually hear him play one concert at the Manhattan School of Music more than 40 years ago.
Thanks, David! You're the best
Well... he did call you Sir.
Sir Pompous A-hole has a nice ring to it, kind of like Sir Roger Norrington, don't you think?
Before I watched this video, I had to watch your Rott, Vol.1 review which I'd missed. The end of the Pastoral Prelude reminded me of the end of Arnold's Grand, Grand Overture-- except that Rott meant it seriously.
I have the symphony, but after two playings, it gathers dust on the shelf.
I'd say you did exact justice to Rott.
I love your humour and pomposity and don’t change a thing !, other than love to hear more about the tam tam in symphonies
Must say I just listened to the Rott symphony, and must say I too see moments of great listening and inspiration amongst the weeds. I think Mahler said he knew what he wanted but could not at his youthful age get there. There are certainly some possible foreshadowings of Mahler's 1st amongst the Brucknerian floss; rather glad your Mr. Pomposity pointed me to hear a fascinating if greatly overblown work. Sorry about that, Hottians...
Yesterday came across Beethoven or Bust. Got it. We live in such a wonderful age where the best music ever made is at our fingertips. And hopefully, more to come. Thanks.
Thanks for this. I thought I might be missing something. I've heard a lot of the Rott recordings and was mystified by the comparisons to Mahler. Indeed, I found Mahler's remark about Rott as the inventor of the modern symphony incomprehensible.
Some one who showed tremendous promises was Guillaume Lekeu. His violin sonata is terrific.
The parallels drawn from the topic of this video with the current political climate is profound, thank you!
Dave, in common with just about every music critic/reviewer, you have described works I love as boring or something equally negative; you have described composers I admire as good but not great. This may momentarily upset me but it doesn't make you an a-hole and you should not stop. As you say, you will not! The a-hole is the person who doesn't recognise that critics criticise, reviewers review. I have no doubt at all that if Rott had written wonderful and significant works you would be happy to say so and, as with many other composers, trigger your viewers into hearing them.
I'm a member of some of the Bruckner groups on Facebook. Watching them try and discuss recording is remarkably entertaining, but nothing gets them charged up quite like when your name is mentioned! They had a whole bunch of discussion if they were really in a cult or not... Needless to say they couldn't see the forest through the trees.
Well I am going to come out and say it right now, you are nothing but a wonderful, kind, intelligent, tasteful, humorous and knowledgeable critic of recorded classical music. I enjoy your videos, even the ones about music I do not care for! I do not have time or money to buy and listen to 15 recordings of the Hammerklavier, so I appreciate you recommendations of several versions and your explanations of the differences in the interpretations. This is very helpful and really I enjoy you sense of humor. As far as Hans Rott is concerned, I have not encountered his music, and will probably not voluntarily do so. I am sorry to hear he tragically died young. I do recall that Mozart and Schubert also died quite young, but not before leaving us a mountain load of masterpieces. So I spend more time listening to them than to obscure, (for a reason?) composers. Loved the video you intelligent, humorous and knowledgeable, you absolute wonderful critic! Take that!
Dear David:
I watch their programs on TH-cam from Mexico City.
I find them instructive and very fun.
Some of your comments are awful but most are smart and make me laugh.
It has given me back a great interest in music and a deep analysis of works while retaining a great sense of humor.
Of course he must have detractors but I have his channel as the favorite of my TH-cam subscriptions.
What would I like? Shorter or dosed videos.
With my respect and admiration:
Victor Flores Zavala
@DavesClassicalGuide: I love how you embraced his derogatory description of you and turned it into yet another useful video! Kudos!
Sorry you get flack. You give us so much. What you do is immensely helpful. Love to cats.
I am a pompous A-hole needs to go on a Classics Today T-shirts 😂
Quite a lot of people in the classical music world really don't like Dave. They fail to get the role of the critic as someone who serves the listening public rather than performers. Thank God for Dave, for he doesn't do fawning sycophancy and is therefore worth listening to, whether you agree with him on whatever you happen to love, or not.
The lack of nuance out there should not be surprising, but it is always disappointing the prevalence of critical thinking deficiency in the general populace and in groups specifically. I still like Furtwangler's "Nazi 9th" and Monteux's scrappy Decca recording of Petrushka, both of which Dave hates, but I don't lose my stomach contents over it, lol.
You zero nonsense & down to earth & in this day & age that’s to be commended.
It is a comfort to learn I am not alone. I am fortunate to count a member of the Hans Rott cult amongst my musical circle. He considers Rott's e-major symphony as a Holy Grail of 19th century music, and it is a personal spiritual failing on your part if you fail to recognise it. Well, I think it is an interesting piece, and Rott undoubtedly showed great promise. But what more can one say?
For people who are heavily into Mahler, that big, messy symphony by Hans Rott is definitely worth hearing. It is an interesting element of the musical culture in which massive works that challenged the old musical structures were starting to appear. However, if you are looking for another Mahler and are hoping for a hidden masterpiece, you won't find that here. I've always viewed Hans Rott as an interesting curiosity, and I had no idea that a cult of Rotters had emerged. The Bruckner cult is well known and suitably annoying. Of course, there are the Baxians, but they seem to be more self aware than typical music cultists. I like both Bruckner and Bax, and I even think Rott is worth hearing, but I'm not going to have a hissy fit if someone criticizes them.
I have the misfortune of being interested in some other cultural products that attract nutty fans, so I'm very well aware of this fan cult dynamic. Classical music fandoms are quite tame compared to many of these. Anime fandom is a toxic stew, with obsessive fans (weeaboos) who base their entire identity and sense of self on weird Japanese cartoons. Science fiction fans are infamous generally, and the Star Wars fandom, in particular, is a glorious train wreck that is destroying itself from within. Pop music is well known for this. I'm not into the artists who attract toxic fans today (although the K-Pop fandom is fun to watch for all the wrong reasons), but I like Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, and the Beatles, all of whom attracted some very crazy devotees back in the day. And I've saved the worst for last - video games. I've been a gamer since the late 1970s, which is about as long as I've been into classical music. There have been many generations of pointless console wars, and this sad state of affairs continues to this day. Sadly, I was an active participant in the Atari vs. Commodore rivalry back when I was young and stupid. A few years ago, a bunch of basement-dwelling neckbeards got upset because a few women criticized sexism in their beloved hobby, so they started a harassment campaign that culminated in death threats. These chuds continue to complain loudly, but their complaints sound increasingly desperate, as the culture is finally moving on from them and becoming more inclusive. Online multiplayer gaming is a toxic pit of despair that I refuse to enter, but morbid curiosity drives me to watch from the outside. If you really want to lose faith in humanity, watching this crazy scene will do it. All in all, the classical music fandom is not too bad by comparison. I would much rather deal with a herd of obsessive Brucknerians or a few committed Rotters than even one malodorous basement-dwelling neckbeard whose life revolves around video games.
There is nothing wrong with being a fan of something, but when your entire identity revolves around it to the point that you feel personally attacked when someone doesn't like something that you like, then it has become unhealthy, and you need to step back and reevaluate your priorities.
And that says it all, extremely well!
Like the term Rotters! :)
I love it when you hold up a recording I have and then say what I also think about it, so maybe I'm pompous too.I hope so! 😂
" [To a cultist] qualified praise is even worse than being purely negative." Truer words were never spoken. Memories of my own callow youth attest to it.
Literally LOLed! Thanks for the fun.
Welcome to the club, Dave
I was sad to hear you get anti-semitic hate messages... So much poison on the interwebs... :( For me you're one of the best things on it. You've also made washing dishes (something I spend an ever-astonishingly large amount of time doing, living alone and lacking a dishwasher) significantly less onerous! That is when I mostly listen to you, though also often at bedtime. I find it a nice calming focus for my mind to listen to a talk or two. Anyway, keep rolling Dave! You're constructing a thoroughly amazing and comprehensive body of work which so many people will be able to use as a guide for exploring the greatest thing out there. Cheers!
You know you are winning when you get a message like that. It means your review had substance, which is what these cultists are afraid of. It makes it hard for them to come up with objective reasons why an opinion is wrong! Roll on Dave. You carry on being ‘a pompous A-hole’.
You are not a pompous A-hole, nor a pompous anything else. You're the most interesting, worthwhile, and witty commentator on classical music on TH-cam - or anywhere. I bet RWS will come back, though - these fruitcakes always, or nearly always, do.
"Nuance is the enemy of cultism" (Dave Hurwitz)
Good one!
Generally speaking, when someone starts their argument with a personal attack on the person with whom they disagree, they've already weakened, if not completely undercut, their actual argument.
Usually, when I don't like something you say, I just watch the day's five new videos, and my upset feelings are diluted by all those new opinions, and I calm down.
There is a psychological tendency in many people to sympathize with a person who is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a 'victim' of any kind, as in this instance, the composer died young and went insane. There are many cults or at least obsessions about artists with particular biographical details. Apparently some people think that if you died young and suffered from psychological problems that means you are a misunderstood genius, unjustly treated by humans and history. There are also cases of people who having similar traits themselves, they identify too uncritically with the artist and consider any negative criticism against him as a personal insult. Maybe the guy who sent you the email was in that category.
Never change, Dave.
If you are in the pubic eye you are going to be called either 'pompous' or 'a-hole' or both together. I enjoy your videos even if I don't know enough about classical music to understand them completely.
And you think Bruckner fans are bad ! Serves you right. At least he told you how to redeem yourself. Very helpful.
Yes, apologize to all humanity and any and all life forms in the universe and to the deceased Hans Rott specifically, and give alms daily to Mother Teresa's orphanage and self flagellate with a switch made from the wood in Rott's back yard and write a 20 page essay on why he's a bad bad boy and beg on his knees for forgiveness repeatedly to RWS in particular and take down all videos posted in the last year or so and give at least 50 percent of his income to the Hans Rott Society and maybe, just maybe, RWS will find Dave "absolved." lol, what a clown.
Good Lord. Why do people think critics who don’t share their every view are somehow committing some moral affront? That said, “You, sir, are a pompous asshole” is definitely an attention-grabbing opening gambit. I think you’re an inexhaustible resource and (sometimes) wonderfully cantankerous. In other words, you’re a great critic. Adieu, RWS!
P.S. Why do I own a disc of Rott? Because of a video YOU made.
@@michaelmasiello6752exactly. The only reason I’ve heard of Rott is because of this channel. I enjoyed the symphony in E quite a lot! It’s rather a lot for someone to lob profane insults at our host on the basis of a video which was actually somewhat positive toward the composer!
Dear Mr. Pompous. Can you please do a video on the best recordings of Tchai’s 1812?
Rott's life was so sad and short (he lost his sanity at 22) that you can't help but feel sympathy for him as a person. But as you pointed out, honest critical evaluation of the music is another matter. Even Mahler qualified his praise of Rott by saying, "To be sure, what he wanted was not quite what he achieved. But I know where he aims". Rott cultists will never get that.
BTW Dave, you're not an asshole. To use more hip hop lingo, haters gonna hate.
I find it hilarious that this person thought that the mere threat that he would not watch or read any of your reviews would be enough for you to write an apology article on classics today 😂
Yeah, really, that's some gauntlet to throw down, as if him not engaging Dave's content will have some material effect on the course of the stars and planets or the price of beans. lol
So he's never heard of Classics Today, never heard of Dave Hurwitz, never heard of Hans Rott, but he just happened to be watching a Dave Hurwitz review of Hans Rott? A review that induced the mother of all triggerings? Yeah, I'm calling BS on Mr 'RWS'
30 seconds in and I felt sure you were going to say it was a Furtwänglerianista that was on your case, given your recent mention of his weaknesses (which obviously never, ever existed!!)
But the Hans Rott society? 😅
Didn't see that one coming!!
Whatever you are, I forgive you because you alerted me to the "Remains of Tom Lehrer" album while I was still able to get a copy in good shape and a very reasonable price from a purveyor of used recordings. I am a Tom Lehrer cultist. I confess.
This is just a guess, but I wonder if the letter writer is someone who is working on a doctoral thesis on Hans Rott.
I hadn't watched the original video yet, but now I'm at least intrigued enough to watch it, and probably give Rott Sym #1 a try.
As a “point of order, Mr Speaker”, it is perfectly possible to be a pompous so-and-so and be and be an outstanding musical critic at the same time. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
As my dear father used to say, there's always some fool coming... You have better things to do than concern yourself with this guy, Dave, just concentrate on what you do best. We're right behind you!
If you aim to please everyone, you have nothing worth sharing your opinion on.
"nuance is the enemy of cultism" --> t shirt 👍
I've been called a "coffee asshole" (jokingly by friends,) because I dare to spoil coffee by stirring in a drop of milk. As far as Rott goes, I like the impressive way his symphony begins, but then have to bail out. I think the recordings are more a testament to good conducting, holding a weak work together as well as good playing, bringing out the beauty of the orchestra, over the music itself. One of my composition teachers in music school years ago once mentioned that Beethoven's Consecration of the House Overture was "one of his weakest pieces yet Toscanini made it all sound great." Anyway, thank you for your insightful reviews. I enjoy them very much.
I want to believe Brahms had it in him to blow up a train.
Pomposity and ass-holedness can be endearing and important ingredients in an effective teaching style -- keep up the good work.
Well done Dave 👍 Perfect 😂
I was described as an incorrigible snob because I did not agree that Muti is a phenomenon. Not in the same as your insult but made me feel very proud.
The person who sent you that email, is probably a fan of Djabadary's Piano Concerto. Most likely played in the orchestra that recorded that monster.
Potential discussion idea - how do I know if I’ve drunk the kool aid?
Hans and his sole modern-day admirer, seem to suffer from a bit o' brain-Rott.
Perhaps "I'm a pompous asshole" is potential T-shirt material. It's utterly insane what people feel justified to say behind a screen. As a question, how does one avoid becoming a cult member when interested in a cult composer? My instinct says focusing on the music above biographical notes may be a good start...
Exactly.
Your quote, plus an image of Beethoven in dark sunglasses! classic!
When i was an undergrad, there was an ambulance chasing lawyer on TV who advertised himself as, "I'm an SOB, but I'm YOUR SOB!" Dave, you may be a pompous ahole, but you're OUR pompous ahole! 😉😂
That'x it! My life's ambition fulfilled.
A Hans Rott groupie! Something for everyone online.
I want to see this on your next shirt.
What impertinence. You are the total antithesis of being a pompous sphincter.... you are, and have been for quite some time, the greatest source of enlightenment and profound insight into the world of classical music.... the world is full of wierdos, so please consign this eccentric person to email re-cycling, and forget you ever heard of it. You are fantastic as you are David, so all you have to do is maintain the brilliant person that you are.
Didn't know Hans Rott's music. Soon I will! 😅
I’m now wondering who this person is. I play in a local community orchestra and we have a fellow player who seems to know a lot about Hans Rott. He is the only person I’ve ever known to even mention the composer and he apparently did a term paper on the composer when in college.
By the way, the initials do not match my orchestra colleague.
I looked him up. He runs some kind of scientific expedition organization (Cordell.org),. and if you want to see pompous, have a look at his bio on the website.
as well as his Wikipedia page, which he seems to have written himself.@@DavesClassicalGuide
@@DavesClassicalGuide HAHA
@@DavesClassicalGuide Very much so. What a pompous a-hole.
@@DavesClassicalGuide As said, you and I may disagree here and there, but no one can discount your knowledge of music and your ability to write about it. For that, I will always have the greatest respect.
Talking about lemmings - when are the ALDAa coming??
Soon.
The rain it raineth every day
Upon the just and unjust feller
But most upon the just because
The unjust has the just's umbrella.
No way! Shocking!
Dear Mr. RWS:
You mad, bro?
The world of the arts - including music - fascinates me for the way its adherents indulge in various levels
of insult and abuse towards each other. As if creation wasn't hard enough for its sources without any
need to make life harder for others. Polite debate is always the best course. no matter how ignited
some individuals appear to be in the pursuit of their tastes and opinions. As the old expression here in
the UK advises: Don't get your knickers in a twist!
Our dear Mr. Hurwitz can certainly once in a while err on the side of pompousity, but whether that's a general character trait, is slightly more debatable! 😉
I remember the Roth review and it was ever as balanced and nuanced as Mr. Hurwitz claims it is. And how the complainant can get to the conclusion, he gets to, is quite mysterious. One wonders whether he actually listened to it? What concerns the snide unpleasant remarks and the veiled insinuations, he makes, they are simply just that: unpleasant!
And what's more, they clearly show who is the real A-RWS-hole here! 💣
David provides a great wealth of classical music information and I pretty much don't follow his final recommendations at all.
We all have own own tastes and choices and that's all the matters. Someone else's disapproval aint gonna make you like your treasured recording any less.
On a related topic: a bandmate of mine from the past would say 'Every band needs an asshole...' and he was right.
Should you praise a restaurant that has the potential to serve good food?
I love you, Dave. You are very fair and support your opinions with irrefutable evidence. If anything, you have made pomposity a virtue.
Not that I always agree with you. For instance, Garrick Ohlsson's recordings of the five Beethoven concerti rank up there with Fleischer's, in my opinion, but Ohlsson didn't get a mention in your overview review, no doubt, because he was accompanied by a fine but pedestrian "festival" orchestra, and perhaps because most critics limit appreciation of him to his specialty, Chopin.
Also, maybe I missed it, but I haven't heard you comment on the Beethoven playing of Rudolf Buchbinder or Ivan Moravec. Having listened to their recordings for almost 60 years, I have heard no more nuanced, heroic and satisfying interpretations of Beethoven's sonatas, bagatelles and concerti.
I've made multiple videos about Moravec
Keep at it Dave. I enjoy your erudite, intelligent and humorous posts. I don't always agree with everything you say, but if we all liked the same thing it would be a boring old world. BW, Jeff W
Good point on "badge of honor" when you consider the source, which is the inverse of Groucho Marx's criterion for club membership: I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that has such a member.
I require pomposity in my classical music reviewers.
How dare a critic have opinions!
Keep ignoring the trolls, you're a rock star! 👍
Oy, gevalt!!