Most indie developers that make retro styled games make ones that somehow manage to make modern machines sweat, the developers of Retro City Rampage manage to make their retro style game run on a real NES. Slight difference in dedication there. XD
I listened to talks he made about when he ported it to DOS. It was nice to listen to a like minded developer who still sees optimize code as something developers should know and do. To many today rely on machines being super fast to make up for their lack in optimization. I remember when the rage was HTML 5, new JS features, local storage etc. Many were like "now we can build ANYTHING in HTML/JS and don't need to use C++, C# etc anymore". My thought was, sure you CAN and it would be totally idiotic. Why waste a order of magnitude in processing power just to make up for the choice of programming language? I use several scripting languages, PHP for web development, C# for some stuff and at work. But I ALWAYS come back to C++ since it gives you so much control.
@@DanielLiljeberg The reason to use JS/HTML5/WebGL is that it runs everywhere. And as someone who works on pretty nice WebGL games, you have to spend a fair amount of time on optimizations if you want nice performance and impressive graphics that still run on a 5 year old phone. Granted, it doesn't compare to the low level optimizations you had to use to run anything playable on these old machines. Plus the tooling today is so much better than decades ago.
@@SomePotato "The reason to use JS/HTML5/WebGL is that it runs everywhere", no it doesn't. It runs on platforms that support JS/HTML/WebGL. Sure, they happen to be many, but don't confuse it with magic that makes it run everywhere. There is still work needed to get all the required boilerplate requirements running in order to use the technologies on any platform. And yes, I agree that tooling today is better. But that doesn't mean that they are right. We have taken many technologies and twisted them to suit other needs. Why? Because someone who wanted to fill that other need often knew the technology in question and thus used that to fill it. But we are still left at the place that just because you can accomplish a goal with some given technology it doesn't mean that was the best choice of technology for the job in question. Giving up most of the control about execution when for instance creating a game IS an issue. Relying on several layers that are black magic boxes, virtual machines etc. Uncontrolled garbage collection, potential issues in the virtual machine etc can all drastically affect the performance and behavior of the software without us being able to anticipate it. Sure, we can mask the underlying issues with it due to the processing power we have at our fingertips today. Now, don't get me wrong. I think it's a good thing that ease of use languages and platforms exist that can get people into programming quickly and solve a specific need in a few lines of code is a great thing. But from there, one should evolve to find different technologies and platforms to take them further down the rabbit hole, not Frankenstein the hell out of the thing they started out with to make everything using it. Using some, less than optimal language to solve a personal problem is fine too. But if you decide to use PHP to release a game you want to charge $60 for I would start to scratch my head. Flash is a nice example of where it was used for a lot of stuff that it really shouldn't have been used for. And the reliance on the Flash creators to release bug-free, high performance, software to power it all was a major issue.
I'm a software developer and you have all my respect. If operating systems and programs were made with such attention to details, computers would not need all those lots of memory, solid disks and processors to run basic things. Congratulations.
Not that I am aware. I'm pretty sure the memory is read only. I've seen things like carts that allow you to load ROMs directly from an SD card, but I have no idea if you can actually just make a genuine NES cart with a custom ROM on your own.
This is fucking impressive. I've been studying programming languages for a couple of years, and also making chiptunes and learning about console related stuff, and this is just a work of pure engineering.
+Rambo20ize Well, at 100 polygons per frame and at 5fps it should be possible, but nothing realistic here; the best you could get is to Mario64's level of graphics
One of my favorite videos on TH-cam, frankly. I'm really sick of developers hacking together some extremely lazy, millions of colors, software-scaled (and maybe 3d) "pixel art", adding some chiptune-ish music and calling the result "8-bit". Now, THIS is true 8-bit! THIS is true talent! It's completely fascinating to see this guy overcome the brutal hardware limits, and make something amazing with extremely limited resources! P.S. congratulations on porting the thing to DOS :D
I bought this on 360 and I literally played it for 8 hours straight. Being 35 now and from the cart generation, this is a masterpiece and a great kickback to 80s/90s. I still brag about this game to all my friends.
Amazing work. You are a very gifted programmer. It amazes me these day how few people are truly able to work effectively in such low level. I wish I had more money as would love to pay you to program
Incredible that you were able to port the game and retain so much fidelity! I really want to give it a go and make something with your assembler program. As a fellow coder, I salute you.
Just started playing your game 3 days ago. I'm really enjoying but I gotta say, after this video, I have a whole new level of respect and appreciation for your creation and for you. Thank you for this amazing work.
This is awesome. I've been following the development of RCR since the Grand Theftendo days, probably back in 2005 or so. So I was very glad to see it finally released last year, and I purchased it for the PS3 for my birthday. I enjoyed the hell out of it, and it really gave me hope that I could create, produce, and publish my own game someday. Thanks so much for such a fun game.
This is insane, excellent work! It shows how progression of game design isn't strictly tied to technology like most people think. If this would have dropped when the NES first came out it would have created a design ripple effect for decades, much like “Endtroducing” did to many music genres in the mid 90s.
This is why I absolutely love passion projects and indie games. As a researcher, this video is really fascinating. I always appreciate how much hard work goes into these kinds of things. It’s absolutely beautiful to see passionate people make such fantastic games. This is why Retro City Rampage is such a masterpiece. It still holds up all these years later. Such an outstanding game.
So rad, you're a genius! I always wondered how they created the game music and the square, triangle, noise and 1-bit drums was an eye-opener. I need to download Impulse Tracker for my Sound Blaster Live! :)
This is brilliant. I remember following the development of what was then a GTA clone way back in my last years of secondary school. I was sad to see the project appeared to stagnate, but was really happy when RCR finally came out. Releasing this version of the game, in many ways, completes the circle. Thank you.
It's already dead and its all thanks to Brian - docs are broken in many places, there are no examples or basic macros and Brian is not interested in fixing it. So is the wiz-lang (another high-level assembly thing). Thanks god for NES Maker which uses asm6 - still not NESHLA, but is better than NESASM or ca65.
To each their own. The humor mostly appeals to people who grew up with these games. I'm 29 right now, and playing this game was a huge nostalgia trip to my childhood. Seeing all of those classic references and parodies had me in stitches. I can definitely understand younger gamers just not getting it.
This looks amazing. I do want to say though, I see many people writing original NES games recently use these tiny sprites so they can get away with a lot performance wise, but that probably only works and looks good because we use high res screens, and wouldn't have worked with low quality blurry 1989 TV monitors. There's a reason why most classic NES games used much bigger sprites.
Excellent video and very well explained. I've only seen a few individuals online actually know about, and explain any of this, correctly, and you are one of those few... who, in all reality, explained it the best. Excellent job on the coding and all of the hard work, it really paid off!
Holy crap... This must have been one of the absolute best videos I've ever watched! Does your custom assembler language also work with or can be adapted to other 8 bit CPUs based on the 6502 like the HuC3280A? If so, then THANK YOU VERY MUCH! It's great to see your game running on a real NES, and I'd really like to experiment with that too, except on the Turbografx 16 of course because that's my thing...
If you liked this video, should check this video ot, too: th-cam.com/video/ZWQ0591PAxM/w-d-xo.html They made a game that fits on an actual NES game cartridge (40kb) and is actually available for purchase on the NES
You should a video like this for more retro systems, explaining the limitations and possibilities of each console. It's very informative and entertaining.
I just watched your GDC talk and I came here, you're a real wizard and RCR is an awesome game. Nowadays some devs can't even worry about making their games run at 60fps, many retro stylized titles are locked at 30fps, they look chuggy and even with their requirements you need a powerful machine to run them, and you sir made your game run on a NES... what can I say? I don't know if you're working on a new title but I'd love to have a game like RCR with multiplayer, maybe for RCR 2?
I would like to see a game design program for the NES much like RPG Maker in making Japanese style rpg games where no coding is required. I'll pay $50 for a product like that. The programmers back in the 80's had it rough. Now when I play my old collection I have a greater sense of appreciation of the games.
There is Dezaemon for the NES but it's for making 2D shmups only... ..The Commodore 64 which is the home computer technological equivalent has many game design apps for it....i'm sure these days it's would be possible to make the game on the c64 then port to the NES..
Awesome stuff!!! Very interesting and shows you must pretty much be a genius to have made that lol!! Love RCR, can't wait to hear about your next project :)
RCR is the perfect example for when it comes to a consoles true potential. Most systems are disbanded or replaced before programmers can truly squeeze out the full potential of the hardware. This is why I was very disappointed with the release of the Xbox One and the PlayStation 4. Both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 have yet to reach their true power, and now that they have been replaced we likely will never know if these new consoles were even necessary.
I disagree; the PS3 and Xbox 360 are very weak. They cannot achieve what never consoles can. Sure, this video shows that you can manage very cool things on old hardware, but a whole load of things had to be changed, and the graphical quality suffered because of it. The old gen consoles only still look decent because of very intelligent work and attention to player psychology. For example, the player character in most games will be a LOT more detailed than the surrounding objects, very elaborate level of detail schemes go on to ensure the closest objects are the most detailed, and a lot of intelligence with using certain graphical techniques to increase performance. So, certainly a lot of clever tricks are used... but we've used them all up. Remember that back in the NES days, nintendo made most of the games for the console, and competition was low. Nowadays, there is a very heavy graphical race between games companies, and teams of hundreds of people working on games, on which dozens can be working on graphics alone. We're hitting the limits faster because more smart minds are working on them, and a lot more competition encourages AAA companies to put more work into using every last bit of performance from the consoles.
***** Many games have separate dedicated graphics programmers for separate consoles, and most generic engines don't limit the graphics much (and if they do, any decent license will supply the source code, for a AAA company). Anyways, low tech doesn't last forever. There ARE games which would be possible on PS4, but not PS3 (at any reasonable framerate), even when just considering gameplay and not graphics. The only real source I can give is that I've done a lot of programming and game development (I once made a small 2d game engine), and I also have friends who have worked (or are working) in the industry.
I love when procrastination turns into the exact thing that I need for my homework. I am taking an assembly language class right now and this video gave me some really interesting things to think about. Thanks for all the explanations!
Wonderful breakdown of the NES system and the process of making a game for such limited hardware. Absolutely amazing work you have done on RCR, thank you for a great video and a fantastic game!
This is so cool! One of the best games made in the last 30 years. It’s amazing, with all the advances in video games and technology some of the best games ever were made in 8 and 16 bit (and STILL are)! I am as excited for Shakedown Hawaii I can barely control myself.
I'd love to be able to say I understand half of that, but I don't. I just can't get my head around code! You sir, are a true artist, and I have thoroughly enjoyed playing the game which you so painstakingly made for so long. I've followed the project for the best part of a decade, (I actually emailed you in the GrandTheftendo days seeing if you needed any graphics making!) and have so much respect for your incredible talent, as well as for all the time and effort you put into this. Thank you!
I loved this game since its orignal release. Bought the vinyl record, PC, PS3 and Vita versions. Just waiting on my boxed copy of the game to show up now :3
Thanks so much for providing us with such a great retro game. I know they'll sentence me to death by saying this but i enjoy retro city rampage more than gta 4 or 5.
Given the extra hardware present on the cartridges of Rom City Rampage (if ever it was to be printed), what would the price of a cartridge be had it been sold in 1989, adjusted for inflation?
Did you try using C and find that it actually added too much overhead? I accept without evidence that C++ is too expensive, but plain C generally translates into assembly in a simple and predictable way. It's sometimes been described as "high-level" or "portable" assembly language. I would think that you could do fine with simple C code and critical sections written in assembly. If you tried it out and I'm wrong, I'd love to hear more about what specifically you found.
A few things: With such an underpowered machine, calling functions can be expensive, so when writing in assembly you're able to use registers as params and return values in efficient ways, and not push/pop things on the stack excessively. Can't rely on a compiler to do things at that level. Additionally, the ROM bank sizes are small so you're constantly having to decide what stays in the main area, and what is wrapped to jump to/from a bank. This system also only has 8-bit registers, so you'd have massive overhead from C using 16-bit or even 32-bit variables freely -- while there were 16-bit ints back in the day in C, and you could have it as 8-bit ints, it would require a lot of work to write everything based around 8-bit ints. The system's also very limited in RAM - 2K base, 8K extended. Even if C was doable, when such limited power like this, any % boost you can get with assembly would be night and day.
VblankEntertainment Thanks for responding and explaining some of the issues. I was expecting you'd explain why I was wrong, and your answer makes perfect sense. It sounds to me like it would've been a really fun project. It's fantastic that you did this and made a video about it. It's not a genre I generally play, but I just bought the game and look forward to trying it out. :-)
As a 6502 (Atari) programmer, I'd like to add that when your system resources are so low, you tend to bend your code to the system instead of writing things in the most readable and logical way. When coding for speed, storing data in unconventional arrangements (reversed or split into page aligned tables for quick offset calculations to avoid pointer math) or self-modifying code can yield massive performance gains. It can take some time to rearrange tasks to reduce 6502 register loads and stores to a minimum. When you look at Atari 2600 code (a system with only 4K of addressable ROM and 128 bytes of RAM), you'll see space saving techniques that can take quite a while to unravel and would never be possible outside of hand-optimized assembly.
Wow I really enjoyed watching your video - super informative and the graphics look amazing! I am just staring out with NES development and assembler :-)
I wrote a simple platformer game for the original GameBoy for my CS bachelor's degree in 2002-3, using SDCC (Small Devices C Compiler) and a couple of flash cartridges (and emulators). It was really fun learning about the hardware features of a system optimized for games, while also having to deal with its limitations. I still can't believe how much of a performance increase I got from tracking player score as separate, individual digits instead of a single, multi-digit value for example.
This is an incredibly cool video; thank you for sharing this process, I do believe I'm going to have to get a copy of this. Now I just have to decide PC, PS3 or Wii. :)
Optimizing a game like the 8 bit version of RCR would be doable for a single person if you are dedicated and really know what you are doing, but optimizing a game like Skyrim or GTA V is several orders of magnitude more difficult and needs teams of programmers who are at the top of their game and even then they will not do as good a job as would of been possible in the 8 bit era owing to the sheer enormity of the task.
Me too...this game is basically my old Amstrad CPC or SEGA Master System in Open World...I'm still playing it every chance I get, it's more than just an homage to retro gaming, it's also one of the best games ever IMHO! Still not bored after all these months...
Amazing video! I would love to get more details about NES development, how to hook up the console to a PC/MAC how to write on the screen buffer, how sprites work etc. Do you plan to write some more articles about your ROM development? You should open a blog! :P
I never knew how these games were produced until I saw this video. How could a beginner with light programming knowledge in modified C get into the 6502 assembly language? Any tutorials out there? Great video by the way
The NES actually used a Ricoh 2A03 CPU which, while based on the 6502, lacked things like BCD and other instructions, but added some additional hardware for sound generation.
Checked out the trailer after watching this and thought it looked insanely awesome so I definitely bought it. (50% off this weekend). Tiny download and the game is wicked sick fun.
I soldered a wire once
Me too. Burned my finger.
Well I fixed a broken headset once...
No way that's crazy man
I didn't even do that.
Well i smacked my computer until it worked
Most indie developers that make retro styled games make ones that somehow manage to make modern machines sweat, the developers of Retro City Rampage manage to make their retro style game run on a real NES. Slight difference in dedication there. XD
I listened to talks he made about when he ported it to DOS. It was nice to listen to a like minded developer who still sees optimize code as something developers should know and do. To many today rely on machines being super fast to make up for their lack in optimization. I remember when the rage was HTML 5, new JS features, local storage etc. Many were like "now we can build ANYTHING in HTML/JS and don't need to use C++, C# etc anymore". My thought was, sure you CAN and it would be totally idiotic. Why waste a order of magnitude in processing power just to make up for the choice of programming language?
I use several scripting languages, PHP for web development, C# for some stuff and at work. But I ALWAYS come back to C++ since it gives you so much control.
Better look up micro mages then :)
True 8-bit doesnt exist anymore
@@DanielLiljeberg The reason to use JS/HTML5/WebGL is that it runs everywhere. And as someone who works on pretty nice WebGL games, you have to spend a fair amount of time on optimizations if you want nice performance and impressive graphics that still run on a 5 year old phone. Granted, it doesn't compare to the low level optimizations you had to use to run anything playable on these old machines. Plus the tooling today is so much better than decades ago.
@@SomePotato "The reason to use JS/HTML5/WebGL is that it runs everywhere", no it doesn't. It runs on platforms that support JS/HTML/WebGL. Sure, they happen to be many, but don't confuse it with magic that makes it run everywhere. There is still work needed to get all the required boilerplate requirements running in order to use the technologies on any platform.
And yes, I agree that tooling today is better. But that doesn't mean that they are right. We have taken many technologies and twisted them to suit other needs. Why? Because someone who wanted to fill that other need often knew the technology in question and thus used that to fill it. But we are still left at the place that just because you can accomplish a goal with some given technology it doesn't mean that was the best choice of technology for the job in question.
Giving up most of the control about execution when for instance creating a game IS an issue. Relying on several layers that are black magic boxes, virtual machines etc. Uncontrolled garbage collection, potential issues in the virtual machine etc can all drastically affect the performance and behavior of the software without us being able to anticipate it. Sure, we can mask the underlying issues with it due to the processing power we have at our fingertips today.
Now, don't get me wrong. I think it's a good thing that ease of use languages and platforms exist that can get people into programming quickly and solve a specific need in a few lines of code is a great thing. But from there, one should evolve to find different technologies and platforms to take them further down the rabbit hole, not Frankenstein the hell out of the thing they started out with to make everything using it. Using some, less than optimal language to solve a personal problem is fine too. But if you decide to use PHP to release a game you want to charge $60 for I would start to scratch my head. Flash is a nice example of where it was used for a lot of stuff that it really shouldn't have been used for. And the reliance on the Flash creators to release bug-free, high performance, software to power it all was a major issue.
I'm a software developer and you have all my respect.
If operating systems and programs were made with such attention to details, computers would not need all those lots of memory, solid disks and processors to run basic things. Congratulations.
If this actually ever saw a release on an NES cart I'd snatch it up in an instant
Christian Kallevig could you write over an existing nes cart?
Not that I am aware. I'm pretty sure the memory is read only.
I've seen things like carts that allow you to load ROMs directly from an SD card, but I have no idea if you can actually just make a genuine NES cart with a custom ROM on your own.
Well, for now you can get the ROM onto a good flashcart (like Everdrive N8).
Chinese bootleg companies have been selling unauthorized NES games since the glory days of the NES, so it's possible.
where can I get the rom?
Should be called Retro City ROMpage tbh
No
Yes
D: All of the above
This guy is tremendously talented. bravo
This is fucking impressive. I've been studying programming languages for a couple of years, and also making chiptunes and learning about console related stuff, and this is just a work of pure engineering.
This guy could port crysis 3 to n64!
everybodyXD Is that possible?
+Rambo20ize Well, at 100 polygons per frame and at 5fps it should be possible, but nothing realistic here; the best you could get is to Mario64's level of graphics
+soundspark what about Conker's bad fur day?
i think crysis 3 on the gamecube would be more interesting.
@@Rambo20ize if you believe in yourself, and know how to optimize, ANYTHING is possible.
I own the 3DS version of this, which came with the NES prototype. Now I know what it is and why it was included. :D
Dude u can play the prototype version in the android just go to dr.cho's house and press y in front of the tv
@@ploopy8483 and in Nolans arcade
The fact that these guys put a retro version of their game in the game is true GAMECEPTION.
One of my favorite videos on TH-cam, frankly.
I'm really sick of developers hacking together some extremely lazy, millions of colors, software-scaled (and maybe 3d) "pixel art", adding some chiptune-ish music and calling the result "8-bit".
Now, THIS is true 8-bit! THIS is true talent! It's completely fascinating to see this guy overcome the brutal hardware limits, and make something amazing with extremely limited resources!
P.S. congratulations on porting the thing to DOS :D
I bought this on 360 and I literally played it for 8 hours straight.
Being 35 now and from the cart generation, this is a masterpiece and a great kickback to 80s/90s. I still brag about this game to all my friends.
Amazing work. You are a very gifted programmer. It amazes me these day how few people are truly able to work effectively in such low level. I wish I had more money as would love to pay you to program
I love how creative these old school games had to be and many of them are still fun to play today.
Incredible that you were able to port the game and retain so much fidelity! I really want to give it a go and make something with your assembler program. As a fellow coder, I salute you.
Just started playing your game 3 days ago. I'm really enjoying but I gotta say, after this video, I have a whole new level of respect and appreciation for your creation and for you.
Thank you for this amazing work.
This was amazing to watch! Thanks for sharing your insight into the creation of such a fun game.
virt is the headlining composer for the actual game itself so it is obviously used with permission
Porque não lança Shakedown Hawaii para Android Ios 😀🙏👍❤️😃
This is awesome. I've been following the development of RCR since the Grand Theftendo days, probably back in 2005 or so. So I was very glad to see it finally released last year, and I purchased it for the PS3 for my birthday. I enjoyed the hell out of it, and it really gave me hope that I could create, produce, and publish my own game someday. Thanks so much for such a fun game.
This is insane, excellent work! It shows how progression of game design isn't strictly tied to technology like most people think. If this would have dropped when the NES first came out it would have created a design ripple effect for decades, much like “Endtroducing” did to many music genres in the mid 90s.
This is why I absolutely love passion projects and indie games.
As a researcher, this video is really fascinating.
I always appreciate how much hard work goes into these kinds of things.
It’s absolutely beautiful to see passionate people make such fantastic games.
This is why Retro City Rampage is such a masterpiece.
It still holds up all these years later.
Such an outstanding game.
So rad, you're a genius! I always wondered how they created the game music and the square, triangle, noise and 1-bit drums was an eye-opener. I need to download Impulse Tracker for my Sound Blaster Live! :)
This is brilliant. I remember following the development of what was then a GTA clone way back in my last years of secondary school. I was sad to see the project appeared to stagnate, but was really happy when RCR finally came out. Releasing this version of the game, in many ways, completes the circle. Thank you.
This video is great!!! Thank you so much, I learned a lot with this
Currently learning ASM and working on my own cart. This video is amazing and makes me even more excited to keep working on my NES endeavors.
It's hard to believe that the NESHLA only had 10 downloads and 5 starred only once on sourceforge... please don't let this project die...
It's already dead and its all thanks to Brian - docs are broken in many places, there are no examples or basic macros and Brian is not interested in fixing it. So is the wiz-lang (another high-level assembly thing). Thanks god for NES Maker which uses asm6 - still not NESHLA, but is better than NESASM or ca65.
To each their own. The humor mostly appeals to people who grew up with these games. I'm 29 right now, and playing this game was a huge nostalgia trip to my childhood. Seeing all of those classic references and parodies had me in stitches. I can definitely understand younger gamers just not getting it.
This looks amazing. I do want to say though, I see many people writing original NES games recently use these tiny sprites so they can get away with a lot performance wise, but that probably only works and looks good because we use high res screens, and wouldn't have worked with low quality blurry 1989 TV monitors. There's a reason why most classic NES games used much bigger sprites.
i LOVE retro city rampage -- i can't wait for the new title!
subbed, so glad this popped up on my feed
Excellent video and very well explained. I've only seen a few individuals online actually know about, and explain any of this, correctly, and you are one of those few... who, in all reality, explained it the best. Excellent job on the coding and all of the hard work, it really paid off!
Eat your heart out, Rockstar Games!
no u
@@ajdhjaoakdn2ndgoogleaccoun929 😂👌
What do they have to do with this? 🤣
@@Abel-Alvarez Gta ....
Holy crap... This must have been one of the absolute best videos I've ever watched!
Does your custom assembler language also work with or can be adapted to other 8 bit CPUs based on the 6502 like the HuC3280A? If so, then THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
It's great to see your game running on a real NES, and I'd really like to experiment with that too, except on the Turbografx 16 of course because that's my thing...
If you liked this video, should check this video ot, too:
th-cam.com/video/ZWQ0591PAxM/w-d-xo.html
They made a game that fits on an actual NES game cartridge (40kb) and is actually available for purchase on the NES
Dude... you're a bad ass.
you're a fucking wizard.
Can't believe there are such an amazing people out there like you. You are a true genius.
There is enormous talent that went into this. Super impressed.
I have been looking for the information you provided in the video about the NES. This was very informative. Thank you.
You should a video like this for more retro systems, explaining the limitations and possibilities of each console. It's very informative and entertaining.
You are a programming genius. Can't wait for your new game!
I'm a very satisfied player of RCR on Steam. Thank you, mate, for the game and for sharing this video. Cheers!
I just watched your GDC talk and I came here, you're a real wizard and RCR is an awesome game.
Nowadays some devs can't even worry about making their games run at 60fps, many retro stylized titles are locked at 30fps, they look chuggy and even with their requirements you need a powerful machine to run them, and you sir made your game run on a NES... what can I say?
I don't know if you're working on a new title but I'd love to have a game like RCR with multiplayer, maybe for RCR 2?
I would like to see a game design program for the NES much like RPG Maker in making Japanese style rpg games where no coding is required. I'll pay $50 for a product like that. The programmers back in the 80's had it rough. Now when I play my old collection I have a greater sense of appreciation of the games.
There is Dezaemon for the NES but it's for making 2D shmups only...
..The Commodore 64 which is the home computer technological equivalent has many game design apps for it....i'm sure these days it's would be possible to make the game on the c64 then port to the NES..
I like some of the 2D games sold on Steam store which looks vintage like Shovel Knight.
Amazing insight into developing a complex game for the NES. Thanks for making this video!
Awesome stuff!!! Very interesting and shows you must pretty much be a genius to have made that lol!! Love RCR, can't wait to hear about your next project :)
Thanks for making ROM City Rampage!
RCR is the perfect example for when it comes to a consoles true potential. Most systems are disbanded or replaced before programmers can truly squeeze out the full potential of the hardware. This is why I was very disappointed with the release of the Xbox One and the PlayStation 4. Both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 have yet to reach their true power, and now that they have been replaced we likely will never know if these new consoles were even necessary.
I disagree; the PS3 and Xbox 360 are very weak. They cannot achieve what never consoles can. Sure, this video shows that you can manage very cool things on old hardware, but a whole load of things had to be changed, and the graphical quality suffered because of it.
The old gen consoles only still look decent because of very intelligent work and attention to player psychology. For example, the player character in most games will be a LOT more detailed than the surrounding objects, very elaborate level of detail schemes go on to ensure the closest objects are the most detailed, and a lot of intelligence with using certain graphical techniques to increase performance.
So, certainly a lot of clever tricks are used... but we've used them all up. Remember that back in the NES days, nintendo made most of the games for the console, and competition was low. Nowadays, there is a very heavy graphical race between games companies, and teams of hundreds of people working on games, on which dozens can be working on graphics alone. We're hitting the limits faster because more smart minds are working on them, and a lot more competition encourages AAA companies to put more work into using every last bit of performance from the consoles.
***** Many games have separate dedicated graphics programmers for separate consoles, and most generic engines don't limit the graphics much (and if they do, any decent license will supply the source code, for a AAA company).
Anyways, low tech doesn't last forever. There ARE games which would be possible on PS4, but not PS3 (at any reasonable framerate), even when just considering gameplay and not graphics.
The only real source I can give is that I've done a lot of programming and game development (I once made a small 2d game engine), and I also have friends who have worked (or are working) in the industry.
That was amazing. Hope you make more videos like this in the future, you explain your work so well
I love when procrastination turns into the exact thing that I need for my homework. I am taking an assembly language class right now and this video gave me some really interesting things to think about. Thanks for all the explanations!
Wonderful breakdown of the NES system and the process of making a game for such limited hardware. Absolutely amazing work you have done on RCR, thank you for a great video and a fantastic game!
This is so cool! One of the best games made in the last 30 years. It’s amazing, with all the advances in video games and technology some of the best games ever were made in 8 and 16 bit (and STILL are)! I am as excited for Shakedown Hawaii I can barely control myself.
This is really incredible and mindboggling to me. I really dig your passion.
very interesting i love learning about this type of stuff it helps gain a new appreciation for things
Very interesting vid, nice to see how games are written, plus you taught me something about old school games as well as. :)
This is so awesome! You are some serious serious talented developer ;). Love the work! Absolutely.
Very fascinating. And I love the video's opening music. Nice touch.
Thank you very much for putting this video together!
good work! hearing about how programmers had to squeeze every last bit out of old hardware makes me wonder what they could do today.
Great work. Love behind-the-scenes stuff like this for NES.
I'd love to be able to say I understand half of that, but I don't. I just can't get my head around code! You sir, are a true artist, and I have thoroughly enjoyed playing the game which you so painstakingly made for so long. I've followed the project for the best part of a decade, (I actually emailed you in the GrandTheftendo days seeing if you needed any graphics making!) and have so much respect for your incredible talent, as well as for all the time and effort you put into this. Thank you!
I really appreciate the effort you put into this video. Thanks.
I loved this game since its orignal release. Bought the vinyl record, PC, PS3 and Vita versions. Just waiting on my boxed copy of the game to show up now :3
Thanks so much for providing us with such a great retro game. I know they'll sentence me to death by saying this but i enjoy retro city rampage more than gta 4 or 5.
Agreed
Given the extra hardware present on the cartridges of Rom City Rampage (if ever it was to be printed), what would the price of a cartridge be had it been sold in 1989, adjusted for inflation?
Did you try using C and find that it actually added too much overhead? I accept without evidence that C++ is too expensive, but plain C generally translates into assembly in a simple and predictable way. It's sometimes been described as "high-level" or "portable" assembly language. I would think that you could do fine with simple C code and critical sections written in assembly. If you tried it out and I'm wrong, I'd love to hear more about what specifically you found.
A few things: With such an underpowered machine, calling functions can be expensive, so when writing in assembly you're able to use registers as params and return values in efficient ways, and not push/pop things on the stack excessively. Can't rely on a compiler to do things at that level. Additionally, the ROM bank sizes are small so you're constantly having to decide what stays in the main area, and what is wrapped to jump to/from a bank. This system also only has 8-bit registers, so you'd have massive overhead from C using 16-bit or even 32-bit variables freely -- while there were 16-bit ints back in the day in C, and you could have it as 8-bit ints, it would require a lot of work to write everything based around 8-bit ints. The system's also very limited in RAM - 2K base, 8K extended. Even if C was doable, when such limited power like this, any % boost you can get with assembly would be night and day.
VblankEntertainment Thanks for responding and explaining some of the issues. I was expecting you'd explain why I was wrong, and your answer makes perfect sense. It sounds to me like it would've been a really fun project. It's fantastic that you did this and made a video about it. It's not a genre I generally play, but I just bought the game and look forward to trying it out. :-)
As a 6502 (Atari) programmer, I'd like to add that when your system resources are so low, you tend to bend your code to the system instead of writing things in the most readable and logical way. When coding for speed, storing data in unconventional arrangements (reversed or split into page aligned tables for quick offset calculations to avoid pointer math) or self-modifying code can yield massive performance gains. It can take some time to rearrange tasks to reduce 6502 register loads and stores to a minimum. When you look at Atari 2600 code (a system with only 4K of addressable ROM and 128 bytes of RAM), you'll see space saving techniques that can take quite a while to unravel and would never be possible outside of hand-optimized assembly.
This is soooooo awesome! I take of all my hats for you, Jedi master!
Wow I really enjoyed watching your video - super informative and the graphics look amazing! I am just staring out with NES development and assembler :-)
i love this game! thanks for all your work! also, thanks for language localization!
I wrote a simple platformer game for the original GameBoy for my CS bachelor's degree in 2002-3, using SDCC (Small Devices C Compiler) and a couple of flash cartridges (and emulators).
It was really fun learning about the hardware features of a system optimized for games, while also having to deal with its limitations.
I still can't believe how much of a performance increase I got from tracking player score as separate, individual digits instead of a single, multi-digit value for example.
This is cool. No, even better, this is the manliest thing imaginable in the IT world!
Kudos to you sir, kudos!
Amazing. Absolutely jaw-dropping. You're the man, man.
Amazing video, thanks for doing it! Great to see insight into real 8 bit instead of "throw some pixels in there and call it 8 bit"
This is an incredibly cool video; thank you for sharing this process, I do believe I'm going to have to get a copy of this. Now I just have to decide PC, PS3 or Wii. :)
Genuinely interesting to watch. Thanks.
Awesome video and awesome game. One of my favorites from last year
A genius Rom repros of this could be quite a hit!!!
Nice notes & commentary, makes for a good watch.
YOU Created RCR? Incredible!
AMAZING! Very informative. Helped me with my C64 assembly projects.
I love playing RCR on my vita, keep up the good work
the game was ported to MS-DOS and almost for the NES! WOW! That's incredible! :D
Optimizing a game like the 8 bit version of RCR would be doable for a single person if you are dedicated and really know what you are doing, but optimizing a game like Skyrim or GTA V is several orders of magnitude more difficult and needs teams of programmers who are at the top of their game and even then they will not do as good a job as would of been possible in the 8 bit era owing to the sheer enormity of the task.
I like the fact that you made the Wiiware version fit by making the chiptune actual NES chiptune.
Me too...this game is basically my old Amstrad CPC or SEGA Master System in Open World...I'm still playing it every chance I get, it's more than just an homage to retro gaming, it's also one of the best games ever IMHO! Still not bored after all these months...
Dear Vblank, im here to ask you! please continue your work with retro rom and ad sound to it! i really wanna play it on a rela nes!
I like how this game takes place in VANCOUVER!
Amazing video! I would love to get more details about NES development, how to hook up the console to a PC/MAC how to write on the screen buffer, how sprites work etc. Do you plan to write some more articles about your ROM development? You should open a blog! :P
amazing stuff this as I grew up on the NES at age 10 years old
If RCR was released in the late 80's it'd be a cult classic.
I never knew how these games were produced until I saw this video. How could a beginner with light programming knowledge in modified C get into the 6502 assembly language? Any tutorials out there? Great video by the way
Nerdy Nights and NESdev wiki is your friend.
In this game you find more than 20 references under a minute!
The NES actually used a Ricoh 2A03 CPU which, while based on the 6502, lacked things like BCD and other instructions, but added some additional hardware for sound generation.
Damn, you rock dude! Kudos for you!
Checked out the trailer after watching this and thought it looked insanely awesome so I definitely bought it. (50% off this weekend). Tiny download and the game is wicked sick fun.
Now, I'm going to select "The Brian Provinciano" style from the barber shop in Retro City and use that
Impressive! I've always wanted to develop for retro systems with my own carts, such as games for the N64
It's playable from within Retro City Rampage on PC/Steam/WiiWare. There's another video on my channel here which shows how to get to it.
This is quite fascinating!
You, my friend, are a genius.
I love the way how you love RCR
Thanks for this! And THANK YOU for bringing RCR to Wii! Here's hoping for a Wii U port!