Actually considering the minotaur's history, and the fact the lementers did kinda become traitors....They got good luck on this occassion. They were not wiped out to a man after getting rammed by the minotaurs in a scene only hitdsm could produce.
Honestly It would be hilarious if the were the bastard children of Rogal Dorn and Perturabo. The Zeal of the Black Templars combined with the obedience of the Iron Warriors. Now thats a tool the High Lords of Terra would love to have in their arsenal.
thats not a bad call i consider them iron warrior and war hound while the carcaradons i consider to be night lord and death gaurd the minotaurs are brutal grinding savage and insanely aggressive yet disciplined while the carcaradons are cruel brutal and violent but structured calculated and absolutely all about being thorough
These guys aren't a mix of Death Guard and War hound, they're just flat out Iron Warriors. In tactics, temperment, & aesthetics they're son of Perturabo. And it way more likely that a Bunch of Iron Warriors stuck around than World Eaters. There were Iron Warriors Garrissons that sat out the entire war without even realizing anything was happening. They could have easily cut a deal upon re-discovery.
These guys are far more melee focused then Iron Warriors. IW are all entrenched gun lines and mobile artillery these guys fight like Carcaradons but dress like Ultramarines in bronze
War Hounds are not World eaters. War Hounds are brutal yet disciplined while the World Eaters are brutal and irrational. Even before the butchers nails Angron lead his legion like a savage. And yes one became the other but the tactics, values, goals and way of live are completely different.
@@WasLostButNowAmFound The Iron Warriors are more greek than Canned Dolmas. A wonderful Mix of the Ancient Tyrants, the Byzantines, and with a sprinkling of the Metaxes era dictatorship.
-Lamenters: why didn't you just... kill me? -Minotaurs: you don't fear death, you welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe. -Lamenters: torture? -Minotaurs: Yes. We'll let you live.
It really says something about the Lamenters when even the bronze asshole chapter stays its hand against them, in the end, even when they are fighting on the side of renegades and traitors.
To be fair they gave them one hell of a fight Full chapter strength minotaurs vs about half of the lamenters with many already wounded, and they lasted hours before issuing their surrender Even an asshole has to admit that Sanguinius favourite taxi drivers are worthy warriors
@@DisasterLordseventeen hours of boarding actions aboard the Mater Lachrymarum. The Lamenters had 311 battle-brothers left from that battle by the end, with a little under 100 fighting elsewhere in the Badab War.
I like to think the Minotaurs let the Lamenters live due to mutual understanding. They're both chapters of the cursed founding, probably both with mixed heritage, and under rough circumstances to some extent or another. Either that, or they think that letting the Lamenters live is a worse punishment than wiping them out lol.
Lamenters: “we stand with our friend the astral claws! Administratum overreach ends here- *glass breaks and Stone Cold Steve Austin’s theme plays as a Minotaurs charge in and stunner the poor yellow boys of sanguinius.*
I Fucking love this Chapter. The color scheme, the ferocity, the tactics, Asterion Moloc being utterly terrifying to the point a Custode had to PAUSE to properly assess him and, weirdest of all, they got on alright with the Salamanders of all people during the War of Badab.
Thinking it probably has something to do with conviction. Same reason they spared the Lamentors. Or maybe both chaptors are just really pure and they are into that shit. Like turbo tsundere.
@@KingofAwesomness14 They weren't exactly buddy-buddy but they seemed to show a little more respect to them, probably because they were just as pissed off as they were for the whole "Being betrayed and stealing our gene-seed thing."
@@randomcenturion7264 yea, that's still...new...different. an estranged approach to the minotaurs to be sure, at least to me. but its a welcome estrangement.
I really like the Minotaurs. So many chapters have a super cool and unique gimmick or backstory and long and glorious history of sacrifice and victory and then there’s the Minotaurs who are just ‘they’re dicks. They know they are dicks and they have harnessed the raw warp power of the dickish ways to personally cripple any poor soul that gets on the wrong side of the high lords and get the job done.’ Same reason I kind of like the marines malevolent. You need more callous SOBs to get the job done effectively, and it makes the nice ones shine all the brighter.
There's a lot of mystery behind them too with the fact a custodian saw the chapter master and considered that he might lose if he was to fight the chapter master. The Greek aesthetic is pretty cool. They're known as maddened berzerkers but also listen to the high lords commands as if they were automata
I couldn’t agree more - now I like how cool the Minotaurs look, but I very much do hate them. But I’m glad they exist because they really do highlight the humanitarian chapters.
It should be noted that in the current lore, Minotaurs are no longer the High Lords attack dogs. They fully obey Lord Gulliman to the letter, who left them secret instructions if the High Lords tried to turn on him, in which they of course did. The Minotaurs feigned obedience to the traitors until it was time and then heel turned immediately, with zero hesitation and turned on the High Lords. The obey Gulliman so absolutely they were willing to risk going toe to toe with the Custodes and Imperial Fists on Terra itself.
It occurs to me that another reason the Minotaurs might be a bit wary of Dreadnoughts is because the crusade era marines were too. They were fully aware of the horrible fate of those locked in Dreadnoughts. Maybe the Minotaurs are equally disillusioned.
I lean towards Loyalist Iron Warriors for these lads. The one Chapter that the Minotaurs are actually on pretty good terms with are the Crimson Fists, who originate from their original Chapter Master, Alexis Polux. If the Minotaurs are descended from the loyalist Barabas Dantioch, that means Polux and Dantioch's bond of brotherhood lasted ten millennia, and that would be a shining beam of feel-good amidst all of the grimdark.
So the Minotaurs are overwhelmingly sent out to crush Space Marine rebellions, cultivate complete antipathy to other chapters, have enough gear to fit right into a Great Crusade era army (whose entire point is that it's utterly superior to any modern Space Marine chapter), and have a background that makes them exceptionally loyal. You couldn't get a more tailor-made Praetorian Guard unit if you tried.
@@ambushbob5383 not read that, but if it was once and at the behest and or with the intent to reinstate the old lords? I do not think it counts. Gulliman isn't very liked by astartes in general due to his primaris edict that forced chapters to accept these... foreigners... into their ranks. Gulliman also is seen as a tyrant, a dictator that stole rulership of the empire, did away with a "democratic" senate put in place by the big E and Malcador. And in swoops a warlord that offs the government and leads the empire, by and large out of the blue, and listens to no one but yes men and allowing things even the emperor took steps to limit or stop outright. Controversial and in my opinion a moral good to oppose gulliman... a man who to begin with stole the role from Dorn, and ruled against the favour of most of his surviving brothers.
Interesting take. Personally lean more into Loyalist Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists smacked together or just Loyalist Iron Warriors. Culture of Greek, Pragmatic, use of siege assault vehicles, Controlled Fury, attrition, duty focused, ect. Seems no brainer. Though i also remember hearing some author who was involved with them saying they were Iron Warriors. Honestly. The perfect Loyalist Iron Warriors sucsessor
The melee focus tho hits at Wat Hounds. Also remember that the War Hounds where super loyal and very disciplined and coud stay their hand even in the heat of battle. Dont confuse them whit the latter World Eaters.
Legit my favorite chapter. I believe the original creator said it was an Iron warrior mix when they left black library. Also Asterion Moloc portrays paranoid tendencies at the heart of the labyrinth(their flagship) which was apparently an iron warrior trait
Joke all you want the lamenters put up one hell of a fight against the minotaurs and even had to have had some of their respect as the minotaurs allowed them to surrender
yeah and at the point where it came to fighting, the Lamenters were already beaten, bruised and in less than half the strenght and yet still they put up a fight so damn vicious the minotaurs could not but respect that and accept their surrender when they had all the authority in the galaxy to wipe them out..
Hey arch. I just wanted to say thank you. I have listened to your videos for almost 8 years now. Your videos have always brought me comfort. When my mother died and I was sitting in that hospital room, holding her hand, I was able to relax for about half an hour, listening to your witch cult logistics video. Hope you’re all right man. Just wanted to say thank you.
A fan theory for Asterion Moloch, which I love, which is that Moloch is Thunder Warrior (perhaps Tyranis) who survived the purge and found the secret to super long life (which probably involved being modded into oblivion). This would explain his distain for space marines, which he would pass on to the other Minotaurs. It would also explain how he could make a Custodies pause, as there is an argument to be made that a Thunder Warrior could beat a Custodies in a 1v1 fight, especially as a Custodies fighting abilities varies a lot from story to story.
A chapter of or including stabilized Thunder Warriors, that's a horrifying thought. Might also explain why it shows up as chimerac, no specific original base but shares a lot of trails with many
What if they're prototype primaris which is why Cawl was able to hide his pet project from everyone. He cut a deal with the high lords and made them their own personal pet as a bribe/gift.
They got the coolest dreadnoughts and Termie armors. On one hand I want to hate on them for not treating it with the respect that deserves, but on the other, they got their war material, they got their mission, out they go to finish it.
Let's be fair, letting the Lamenters of all chapters live is a far worse punishment than killing them off. Also possibly proof that the Minotaurs have a sense of humor, but that might be stretching things.
Chimeric geneseed, great crusade equipment, unknown progenitor primarch/Primarchs? Lost Legions power team. Imagine the Emperor tried reaching the Primarchs just after the scattering and only those two were retrieved quickly but at great cost, a father holding two still chested and silent babes.
Definitely think instead of death guard it was the world eaters and iron warriors could explain the grinding assault style and there more directed temperament towards the enemy rather than just frothing at the mouth perterubo was obsessed with showing he was better than dorn so that could easily be flipped to the renegades of the imperium forgot some of his half sons because if you mix those two that’s pretty much what you get warfare wise
This brings up an interesting question, it's been said that the ultramarines got the remainders of the "forgotten" legions who got purged from record Wouldn't that make ultramarines chimeric? Or do they track the geneseed and avoid mingling them That also brings up who knows this secret and if all apothecaries for UM chapters are in the know? Or did they separate them out into distinct chapters at the second founding and then lie that they are all the same stock and their descendants eventually forgot or are a few chapters keeping a secret?
im still under the impression that the minotaurs are iron warrior and war hound while the carcaradons are night lord and death gaurd it just makes too much sense for why they are why they are each
This is 100% my headcannon, but I think the chaptermaster might be Alpharius. And they are the visible side of the Alpha legion working for the imperium. Spearwielding tall "Astartes" Chaptermaster that a Custodes cant seems to be able to defeat. A chapter at always full strength that cant be verified even by the Inquisition. Sudden changes of an older chapter. Having obundant amounts of great crusade Legion Gear, with no clear origin...
I always found the history of the Minotaurs chapter to be really interesting. I was really looking forwards to this video but sadly it's so hard to understand what you are saying nowadays. Honestly I'm a perfect candidate for a Space Marine or Chaos god to swoop up into its ranks. Like whatever restores my hearing at this point. Anyways as always I enjoy the lore videos even if I can't partake of them like I used to. I will continue watching your videos here and there as life sees fit.
Theory: the minotaurs didn't spare the Lamenters. They simply couldn't kill off the last of the chapter. Guns jammed. Swords shattered. Even their hands were mangled by errant shrapnel trying to choke out their foes. Why? Because death would have put an end to their suffering. The worst they could do was to let the Lamenters keep existing
25:20 according to the Soul Drinkers books, a dreadnaught can go into self 'hibernation' for milenia, and come back online by themselves fully operational - with no maintenance ( Daenyathos ).
Barch, how could you forget the Iron Warriors similarities!!! The Minotaurs might have started as Warhounds, but that failed. Iron Warrior geneseed tho??? PERFECTION! It all fits.
Wasn't the Minators involved in attacking Terra in some Ex- Highlord rebellion against Gilly-Man New High Lords ...and they also had Primarus Marines in their chapter before they where standard issue marines?
Yup. They were gonna fight Guiliman's forces, until he pulled a Big Brain counter-coup like it was nothing, then they got ordered by the New High Lords to stand down and did so without a word or hesitation.
Just a thought, but is there a potential for iron warriors being the second portion of the gene seed? They are known for their corpse grinding tactics. Maybe their hiatus was tweaking the balance of iron warrior to war hound expression. Keeping the savagery but promoting the stubbornly obedient temperament. They're no death gaurd in terms of survival, but they're no push overs. It also kinda fits the space Greece esthetic of everyone's favorite angsty Primarch.
Off topic, but since the Tamurkhan DLC is coming out, can you make either a lore video on him, or even better make a series about his campaign? You already did it twice for 40k, why not one for Fantasy, especially for a beloved character and story ?
On the Lamentors. I get the impression that they have the power of Karmic balance. As in most of the time they have bad luck. So it is like runing uphill with a parchute as ttavhed to your back. But when thing get too horrible they bad luck turns to good luck to get back th luck that was taken which is like taken rhe parachute of and running downhill. Allowing them to accomplish tasks even the other Space Marin chapters could not do. Which Arch points out
A chapter created for the sole purpose to hunt down and totally decimate Space Marines, while obeying only the Office of the Senatorum Imperialis. It's just such a brilliant twist and addition to Roboutes Imperium.
I always saw them as Chimeric Iron Warriors and Death Guard, with a splash of Warhounds. They wear the Garb of Olympia proudly and march through all hell to be able to stab you until they are called to stab somewhere else.
On the topic of the Dreadnoughts, there's an odd parallel to be drawn with the Space Wolves, of all people. In the Forge World's "Imperial Armour Apocalypse - Second Edition" they introduced rules for the Contemptor Dreadnought, as well as a couple of Chapter specific variant. The Space Wolves on had an interesting lore blurb, as according to it, the Space Wolves have always considered that particular pattern to be ill-omened, with many of the sagas that mention them almost always being of dark and fell tales, rife with gruesome and bloody deeds even by their standards. Later on this because a bit of self-fulfilling prophesy, as the remaining chassis post-Heresy and Apostasy would mostly be given to warriors that had already bad reputations. So it made me wonder, even putting aside the potential fallen Legion origin of the Minotaurs, if their Contemptors have gained a similar reputation amongst them, and if that also plays a part in the... indifference? That they show the otherwise venerable warriors. I just that there was an odd similarity here.
Read somewhere that one of the writers for badab war supposedly stated minotaurs are of iron warriors geneseed. However minotaurs aggression suggests world eaters more, or if chimeric genessed lore bit is still valid, could very well be both(and/ or have a bit of death guars thrown into the mix as well). Speaking of both, let's see what you guys think of this - a penitent/redemption founding, using traitor geneseed for a loyalist chapter, one for each of the traitor legions. For 12th, we got wrath-hounds - black armor trimmed with bronze(a la red hand destroyers) with bronze helmets for veterans, symbol is pre-heresy fanged maw modified to look like a studded collar and open max of an angry hound at the same time, hence the name, special decoration include chains(to symbolize their discipline) and any pattern that spilled enemy blood forms upon armor surface before cleaning(keeping the outline only) would be quite capable aircraft pilots, favored cqc weapon either an axe(chain or power) or a fist(power or chain), pick one. For 4th legion - got a color scheme(gunmetal blue with silver/steel trim), unique decorations are castle wall and hazard stripe pattern, symbol is a cross between their pre-heresy iron mask and barad-dur tower from lord of the rings, favored cqc weapon a power breaching halberd(with a crowbar on the butt end of the haft for crowbar stuff), skilled tankers and gunners, current working title for them is wallbreakers. Almost got everyone done(the 3rd, 14th and 20th still don't have fixed color scheme yet).
Hm, interesting take on their "Freedom"... I wonder who could be considered more "Free" the Minotaurs with their Edict and backing, or the Carcharadons out in the void without overnight? Interesting take also, on their gene seed. I have only ever heard speculated they were Iron Warriors, chimeric or straight up. Awesome video as always you Norwegian Mountain Monkey😁👍
Arch you bit off the mark there - technology of aspirant's rapid growth was indeed mentioned as something World Eaters dabbled in, but planet where such event was described have been raided by Iron Hands - and technology was looted by them as well, making it way more likely that its Iron Hands geneseed mixed in, not Death Guard. And as for relic vehicles Ferrus'es spawns (with cooperation of Mechanicus) are the ones most capable of maintaining and possibly even producing such constructs.
I'd say iron warriors (which seems to be the consensus if not outright lore) and either Imperial fists or space wolves for the loyalty, and sheer rockcrete wall they have in temperament
I like to think the Lamenters simply were so used to the attrition that they somehow outlasted the minotaurs or theirs a 21st founding kinship that granted them a small mercy.
The State Security of the Highlords of Terra, i almost wonder if they used Angron as the base material and tampered it with a loyalist like Rogal Dorn. I suppose another explanation for the wargear aside from their patrons is if they were originally founded by traitor legion blackshields they could easily have pilfered several traitor equipment stockpiles during and after the Heresy. After all Traitor Legion leadership suffered pretty massive casualties too, and with the remaining traitor primarchs going to play minecraft creative mode with their personalized circles of Hell there's likely a lot of their armories and caches lost to time.
Minotaur is a half man half bull chimera, so it's a cheeky reference to chimeric chapter, while at the same time alluding to Hellenic Spartan aesthetic. My head canon is that the chapter existence is the aligned interest of Lords of Terra and Custodes to keep Astartes on a tighter leash. Lords of Terra surely are annoyed with their autonomy, while for Custodes view all Astartes as traitors just waiting to happen. Remember that not a single Custodes betrayed the Emperor, while half of Astartes did. Considering the mission of the Minatours to annihilate specifically renegade SM and not chaos SM reflects on Custodes past failure to save the Emperor from traitors, not some demons. While Minotaurs are chimeric Astartes, I want to believe that Asterion Moloch himself is a Custodes directing the actions of the chapter. This would explain his gear as no Custodes would donate a relic variant of Guardian Spear to a filthy Astartes, his age, his chapter's gear (Terran Artisan clans are technologically more advanced than Admech and they make gear for Custodes). It would explain his demeanour and insults towards Astartes allies (a good Custodes holds those potential traitors at a spear's length at all times). Most importantly it would finally do real justice towards describing Custodes power. It would however explain the heavy censure not as something against the Inquisition, but as a secret from Astartes who would cry injustice against their autonomy.
What if the Minotaurs are the War Hounds that refused the Butchers Nails when Angron demanded the legion has them fitted? Hidden away by Terra to escape Angrons wrath...
Does anyone else feel like there's no Roman chapter? I know the smurfs exist but they just seem like space Macedonians, or something else. No chapter seems Roman, although the fist might be close. Unless there's a chapter I don't know about, which is highly possible.
I’ve got the image of the Minotaurs getting sent to Vraks with the rest of chapters deployed there. Their tactics and arsenal would’ve been hella appreciated
>Takes the wargear of the Lamenters
>It works flawlessly
>Lamenters lament their bad luck again
The "bad luck brian" meme of M41.
Actually considering the minotaur's history, and the fact the lementers did kinda become traitors....They got good luck on this occassion. They were not wiped out to a man after getting rammed by the minotaurs in a scene only hitdsm could produce.
Honestly It would be hilarious if the were the bastard children of Rogal Dorn and Perturabo.
The Zeal of the Black Templars combined with the obedience of the Iron Warriors.
Now thats a tool the High Lords of Terra would love to have in their arsenal.
thats not a bad call
i consider them iron warrior and war hound
while the carcaradons i consider to be night lord and death gaurd
the minotaurs are brutal grinding savage and insanely aggressive yet disciplined
while the carcaradons are cruel brutal and violent but structured calculated and absolutely all about being thorough
That be funny.
Imperial Fists already follow the rules to such autistic degree they are more Codex-compliant than the Ultramarines
Long live Honsou
These guys aren't a mix of Death Guard and War hound, they're just flat out Iron Warriors. In tactics, temperment, & aesthetics they're son of Perturabo. And it way more likely that a Bunch of Iron Warriors stuck around than World Eaters. There were Iron Warriors Garrissons that sat out the entire war without even realizing anything was happening. They could have easily cut a deal upon re-discovery.
Definitely boys from the fourth legion.
These guys are far more melee focused then Iron Warriors. IW are all entrenched gun lines and mobile artillery these guys fight like Carcaradons but dress like Ultramarines in bronze
War Hounds are not World eaters.
War Hounds are brutal yet disciplined while the World Eaters are brutal and irrational.
Even before the butchers nails Angron lead his legion like a savage.
And yes one became the other but the tactics, values, goals and way of live are completely different.
@@stefankatsarov5806
War Hounds were more the Medic Legion. Big E intended Angron to be a healer after all.
@@TheDubDisciple
>Unaware of how the Iron Warriors Assault Companies fought
Blood for the High Lords! Skulls for the Golden Throne!
The whole Greek Hoplite look they're rocking makes me think that there's some Iron Warrior mixed in as well.
Iron warrior; greek. Huh?
@@WasLostButNowAmFound
The Iron Warriors are more greek than Canned Dolmas. A wonderful Mix of the Ancient Tyrants, the Byzantines, and with a sprinkling of the Metaxes era dictatorship.
@@semi-useful5178 Yellow armoured cousins with their stoicism are more greek than the Iron Whiners.
@@semi-useful5178Yellow Armoured stoics are more greek than the Iron Phonies.
@@WasLostButNowAmFoundTheir homeworld was literally called olympia.
-Lamenters: why didn't you just... kill me?
-Minotaurs: you don't fear death, you welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe.
-Lamenters: torture?
-Minotaurs: Yes. We'll let you live.
"Wow Minotaurs, how come the High Lords let you have two Primarchs?!"
That’s classified
We are Alpharius... I mean Astorian Moloch
Ah the wayward sons of Perturabo. Definitely one of my favorite Chapters.
"Fuck em" personified. I like the attitude Loyalist Iron Warriors have, and Prefered Enemy: Space Marines is a cool concept
I still love the old army rules for Black Templars, being the single deadpan, matter-of-fact line on their data sheet, reading ‘Preferred Enemy: All’
Ah yes, the Minotaurs. If space marines had a federal agent chapter, it would be them.
more lik IRS
"Fk the minotaurs. All my homies hate the minotaurs." -Unknown Lamenter space marine
right before his pants fell down and he tripped into a ditch of shit.
“Agreed, fuck the Minotaurs, bronze rod rammed assholes” -unknown imperial fist while talking to custodian
@@conan2096Hahaha based
“Look at the Lamenters trying to be something other then an eye sore”- Unknown Minotaur Space Marine
I'm sorry, thats just any other loyalist chapter who has had the displeasure of meeting them
It really says something about the Lamenters when even the bronze asshole chapter stays its hand against them, in the end, even when they are fighting on the side of renegades and traitors.
To be fair they gave them one hell of a fight
Full chapter strength minotaurs vs about half of the lamenters with many already wounded, and they lasted hours before issuing their surrender
Even an asshole has to admit that Sanguinius favourite taxi drivers are worthy warriors
@@DisasterLordseventeen hours of boarding actions aboard the Mater Lachrymarum. The Lamenters had 311 battle-brothers left from that battle by the end, with a little under 100 fighting elsewhere in the Badab War.
I like to think the Minotaurs let the Lamenters live due to mutual understanding. They're both chapters of the cursed founding, probably both with mixed heritage, and under rough circumstances to some extent or another. Either that, or they think that letting the Lamenters live is a worse punishment than wiping them out lol.
Lets go with both. They pity them but not that much to put them out of their misery.
Lamenters: “we stand with our friend the astral claws! Administratum overreach ends here- *glass breaks and Stone Cold Steve Austin’s theme plays as a Minotaurs charge in and stunner the poor yellow boys of sanguinius.*
Ah Hell Yeah
oh man i want to see an astares wresting federation now
Lord I can see it. Lol
The Astral clawsssss.s...s.....RED CORSAIRS REMEMBERED THAT!!!!!!
Lord Commander JR: BY THE GAWD EMPEROR ITS THE MINOTAURS WITH STEEL CHAIR BOLT GUNS!
I Fucking love this Chapter. The color scheme, the ferocity, the tactics, Asterion Moloc being utterly terrifying to the point a Custode had to PAUSE to properly assess him and, weirdest of all, they got on alright with the Salamanders of all people during the War of Badab.
Thinking it probably has something to do with conviction. Same reason they spared the Lamentors. Or maybe both chaptors are just really pure and they are into that shit. Like turbo tsundere.
THEY DID WHAT?! THEY GOT ALONG...WITH THE SALAMANDERS?! You must be joking! How?! Why?! Please explain!
@@KingofAwesomness14 They weren't exactly buddy-buddy but they seemed to show a little more respect to them, probably because they were just as pissed off as they were for the whole "Being betrayed and stealing our gene-seed thing."
@@randomcenturion7264 yea, that's still...new...different. an estranged approach to the minotaurs to be sure, at least to me. but its a welcome estrangement.
They even have brothers sent to the Deathwatch. Needless to say, the orientation trips are a sight to behold.
I really like the Minotaurs. So many chapters have a super cool and unique gimmick or backstory and long and glorious history of sacrifice and victory and then there’s the Minotaurs who are just ‘they’re dicks. They know they are dicks and they have harnessed the raw warp power of the dickish ways to personally cripple any poor soul that gets on the wrong side of the high lords and get the job done.’
Same reason I kind of like the marines malevolent. You need more callous SOBs to get the job done effectively, and it makes the nice ones shine all the brighter.
Better than the Space Sharks 🦈 for sure.
There's a lot of mystery behind them too with the fact a custodian saw the chapter master and considered that he might lose if he was to fight the chapter master. The Greek aesthetic is pretty cool. They're known as maddened berzerkers but also listen to the high lords commands as if they were automata
I couldn’t agree more - now I like how cool the Minotaurs look, but I very much do hate them. But I’m glad they exist because they really do highlight the humanitarian chapters.
Yeah, Screw EVERYONE!
It should be noted that in the current lore, Minotaurs are no longer the High Lords attack dogs. They fully obey Lord Gulliman to the letter, who left them secret instructions if the High Lords tried to turn on him, in which they of course did. The Minotaurs feigned obedience to the traitors until it was time and then heel turned immediately, with zero hesitation and turned on the High Lords. The obey Gulliman so absolutely they were willing to risk going toe to toe with the Custodes and Imperial Fists on Terra itself.
It occurs to me that another reason the Minotaurs might be a bit wary of Dreadnoughts is because the crusade era marines were too. They were fully aware of the horrible fate of those locked in Dreadnoughts. Maybe the Minotaurs are equally disillusioned.
I lean towards Loyalist Iron Warriors for these lads.
The one Chapter that the Minotaurs are actually on pretty good terms with are the Crimson Fists, who originate from their original Chapter Master, Alexis Polux.
If the Minotaurs are descended from the loyalist Barabas Dantioch, that means Polux and Dantioch's bond of brotherhood lasted ten millennia, and that would be a shining beam of feel-good amidst all of the grimdark.
Abrasive, superior, aloof and not friendly at all. Peter Turbo: "thats my boys"
So the Minotaurs are overwhelmingly sent out to crush Space Marine rebellions, cultivate complete antipathy to other chapters, have enough gear to fit right into a Great Crusade era army (whose entire point is that it's utterly superior to any modern Space Marine chapter), and have a background that makes them exceptionally loyal.
You couldn't get a more tailor-made Praetorian Guard unit if you tried.
What the roman praetorian guard??? I think they were responsible for killing more emperor's than they saved lol
Sadly the Minotaurs has yet to remove and impose their own emperors(high lords). Preatorians are not loyal, they are mercenary.
@@MrEmioskThey did join a coup against Gilliman, does that count?
@@ambushbob5383 not read that, but if it was once and at the behest and or with the intent to reinstate the old lords? I do not think it counts. Gulliman isn't very liked by astartes in general due to his primaris edict that forced chapters to accept these... foreigners... into their ranks. Gulliman also is seen as a tyrant, a dictator that stole rulership of the empire, did away with a "democratic" senate put in place by the big E and Malcador. And in swoops a warlord that offs the government and leads the empire, by and large out of the blue, and listens to no one but yes men and allowing things even the emperor took steps to limit or stop outright.
Controversial and in my opinion a moral good to oppose gulliman... a man who to begin with stole the role from Dorn, and ruled against the favour of most of his surviving brothers.
Except the praetorian guard held the rulers hostage and would kill them if they didn't appease the guard lmao
Interesting take. Personally lean more into Loyalist Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists smacked together or just Loyalist Iron Warriors. Culture of Greek, Pragmatic, use of siege assault vehicles, Controlled Fury, attrition, duty focused, ect. Seems no brainer. Though i also remember hearing some author who was involved with them saying they were Iron Warriors.
Honestly. The perfect Loyalist Iron Warriors sucsessor
The melee focus tho.
The melee focus tho hits at Wat Hounds.
Also remember that the War Hounds where super loyal and very disciplined and coud stay their hand even in the heat of battle.
Dont confuse them whit the latter World Eaters.
These guys took all of the Lamentaters luck.
Agreed there
And their good wargear too.
Implied they had any from the begining.
Commenting here just to say how excited i am to see Arch's reaction to the new Custodes codex introducing female Custodes.
Legit my favorite chapter. I believe the original creator said it was an Iron warrior mix when they left black library. Also Asterion Moloc portrays paranoid tendencies at the heart of the labyrinth(their flagship) which was apparently an iron warrior trait
Joke all you want the lamenters put up one hell of a fight against the minotaurs and even had to have had some of their respect as the minotaurs allowed them to surrender
yeah and at the point where it came to fighting, the Lamenters were already beaten, bruised and in less than half the strenght and yet still they put up a fight so damn vicious the minotaurs could not but respect that and accept their surrender when they had all the authority in the galaxy to wipe them out..
The Iron Within-otaurs
A loyal hunting dog, one that hasn't bit the hand that feeds them yet.
Minotaur.. hmm a labyrinthine background
Hey arch. I just wanted to say thank you. I have listened to your videos for almost 8 years now. Your videos have always brought me comfort. When my mother died and I was sitting in that hospital room, holding her hand, I was able to relax for about half an hour, listening to your witch cult logistics video. Hope you’re all right man. Just wanted to say thank you.
I think it would also work if the where remnants of the second and eleventh space marine legions this would also explain the edict of silence.
These guys have stuff that can rival the Blood Ravens.
A fan theory for Asterion Moloch, which I love, which is that Moloch is Thunder Warrior (perhaps Tyranis) who survived the purge and found the secret to super long life (which probably involved being modded into oblivion). This would explain his distain for space marines, which he would pass on to the other Minotaurs. It would also explain how he could make a Custodies pause, as there is an argument to be made that a Thunder Warrior could beat a Custodies in a 1v1 fight, especially as a Custodies fighting abilities varies a lot from story to story.
A chapter of or including stabilized Thunder Warriors, that's a horrifying thought. Might also explain why it shows up as chimerac, no specific original base but shares a lot of trails with many
What if they're prototype primaris which is why Cawl was able to hide his pet project from everyone.
He cut a deal with the high lords and made them their own personal pet as a bribe/gift.
They got the coolest dreadnoughts and Termie armors. On one hand I want to hate on them for not treating it with the respect that deserves, but on the other, they got their war material, they got their mission, out they go to finish it.
Let's be fair, letting the Lamenters of all chapters live is a far worse punishment than killing them off. Also possibly proof that the Minotaurs have a sense of humor, but that might be stretching things.
Chimeric geneseed, great crusade equipment, unknown progenitor primarch/Primarchs? Lost Legions power team. Imagine the Emperor tried reaching the Primarchs just after the scattering and only those two were retrieved quickly but at great cost, a father holding two still chested and silent babes.
Would love to see the Minotaurs come to blows with the Space Sharks, that fight would be BADASS!
When I saw the tittle of the video, I knew it would be great and mighty lore.
Definitely think instead of death guard it was the world eaters and iron warriors could explain the grinding assault style and there more directed temperament towards the enemy rather than just frothing at the mouth perterubo was obsessed with showing he was better than dorn so that could easily be flipped to the renegades of the imperium forgot some of his half sons because if you mix those two that’s pretty much what you get warfare wise
3D print your own figurines, photocopy the books, rent your own spaces. You can totally continue the Hobby without Games Workshop
This brings up an interesting question, it's been said that the ultramarines got the remainders of the "forgotten" legions who got purged from record
Wouldn't that make ultramarines chimeric? Or do they track the geneseed and avoid mingling them
That also brings up who knows this secret and if all apothecaries for UM chapters are in the know?
Or did they separate them out into distinct chapters at the second founding and then lie that they are all the same stock and their descendants eventually forgot or are a few chapters keeping a secret?
Been looking forward to this sinds the War for Badab! Great stuff Arch!
Finally an arch video I wanna watch that's not a dig at you just after the end and the death ive been 40klored out
We regret to inform you that Inquisitor Arch is reported missing.
Last we know is that his ship was intercepted by a Space Marine strike cruiser.
Yay! New arch video!
Arch, ya beauty!
Been looking forward to your video on this chapter.
The original Minotaurs may have been a chapter that got wiped out.
im still under the impression that the minotaurs are iron warrior and war hound while the carcaradons are night lord and death gaurd
it just makes too much sense for why they are why they are each
Blackshields give new heraldry and colors. It could exsplain to some extent the chimeric gene-seed.
This is 100% my headcannon, but I think the chaptermaster might be Alpharius. And they are the visible side of the Alpha legion working for the imperium. Spearwielding tall "Astartes" Chaptermaster that a Custodes cant seems to be able to defeat. A chapter at always full strength that cant be verified even by the Inquisition. Sudden changes of an older chapter. Having obundant amounts of great crusade Legion Gear, with no clear origin...
Everyone knows the minotaurs are a loyalist band of alpha legion under cover
I always found the history of the Minotaurs chapter to be really interesting. I was really looking forwards to this video but sadly it's so hard to understand what you are saying nowadays. Honestly I'm a perfect candidate for a Space Marine or Chaos god to swoop up into its ranks. Like whatever restores my hearing at this point. Anyways as always I enjoy the lore videos even if I can't partake of them like I used to. I will continue watching your videos here and there as life sees fit.
Not a bad idea, you take a nearly snuffed out chapter, fill it up with you personal boys and nothing looks sketchy paper work wise.
Theory: the minotaurs didn't spare the Lamenters. They simply couldn't kill off the last of the chapter. Guns jammed. Swords shattered. Even their hands were mangled by errant shrapnel trying to choke out their foes.
Why? Because death would have put an end to their suffering. The worst they could do was to let the Lamenters keep existing
Arch, you seem particularly chill this cast.
COOL, my current space marine army.
God bless you, Alan Bligh, author of the best lore in warhammer
.. The Minotaurs Chapter: as subtle as a punch in the nose!
... The Commissar is pleased! 😎
Imagine they come as just normal Ultramarine successors
These guys get it! Crush the unclean!
I think they were once chimeric of death guard and world eaters, but the tinkering once they disappeared added iron warriors into the mix.
Another fine episode rich in lor. I thank you.
this is the thunder warier that got the big e gean seed way back in the hersy
You’re the man Arch.
25:20 according to the Soul Drinkers books, a dreadnaught can go into self 'hibernation' for milenia, and come back online by themselves fully operational - with no maintenance ( Daenyathos ).
Barch, how could you forget the Iron Warriors similarities!!! The Minotaurs might have started as Warhounds, but that failed. Iron Warrior geneseed tho??? PERFECTION! It all fits.
they're pretty antagonistic in the vaults of terra series, loved those books
Dark Angels and Minotaurs deployed against the same threat would be an eventful action
Wasn't the Minators involved in attacking Terra in some Ex- Highlord rebellion against Gilly-Man New High Lords ...and they also had Primarus Marines in their chapter before they where standard issue marines?
Yup. They were gonna fight Guiliman's forces, until he pulled a Big Brain counter-coup like it was nothing, then they got ordered by the New High Lords to stand down and did so without a word or hesitation.
Yeah, the old High Lord's tried to protect the 40k setting and the Minotaurs pretended to side with them.
Just a thought, but is there a potential for iron warriors being the second portion of the gene seed? They are known for their corpse grinding tactics. Maybe their hiatus was tweaking the balance of iron warrior to war hound expression. Keeping the savagery but promoting the stubbornly obedient temperament. They're no death gaurd in terms of survival, but they're no push overs.
It also kinda fits the space Greece esthetic of everyone's favorite angsty Primarch.
Off topic, but since the Tamurkhan DLC is coming out, can you make either a lore video on him, or even better make a series about his campaign? You already did it twice for 40k, why not one for Fantasy, especially for a beloved character and story ?
I would be interested, plus the iron is
Could it be they spared a fellow cursed founding chapter?
On the Lamentors. I get the impression that they have the power of Karmic balance. As in most of the time they have bad luck. So it is like runing uphill with a parchute as ttavhed to your back. But when thing get too horrible they bad luck turns to good luck to get back th luck that was taken which is like taken rhe parachute of and running downhill. Allowing them to accomplish tasks even the other Space Marin chapters could not do. Which Arch points out
A chapter created for the sole purpose to hunt down and totally decimate Space Marines, while obeying only the Office of the Senatorum Imperialis. It's just such a brilliant twist and addition to Roboutes Imperium.
Greek, prickly, attrition, lots of armor. You'll have a hard time convincing me there isn't some Iron Warrior in there.
Awesome storytelling!
"The imperium is not allowed to waste resources on over kill" I think the imperial gard would disagree good sir. 😂
21:45 "The entire first company of the Terminators Chapter" 😂
So federal agent / ATF themed chapter. You can relay on that they shoot the dissidets cyber mastiff and light the house on fire. 😂
I always saw them as Chimeric Iron Warriors and Death Guard, with a splash of Warhounds. They wear the Garb of Olympia proudly and march through all hell to be able to stab you until they are called to stab somewhere else.
On the topic of the Dreadnoughts, there's an odd parallel to be drawn with the Space Wolves, of all people. In the Forge World's "Imperial Armour Apocalypse - Second Edition" they introduced rules for the Contemptor Dreadnought, as well as a couple of Chapter specific variant. The Space Wolves on had an interesting lore blurb, as according to it, the Space Wolves have always considered that particular pattern to be ill-omened, with many of the sagas that mention them almost always being of dark and fell tales, rife with gruesome and bloody deeds even by their standards. Later on this because a bit of self-fulfilling prophesy, as the remaining chassis post-Heresy and Apostasy would mostly be given to warriors that had already bad reputations.
So it made me wonder, even putting aside the potential fallen Legion origin of the Minotaurs, if their Contemptors have gained a similar reputation amongst them, and if that also plays a part in the... indifference? That they show the otherwise venerable warriors. I just that there was an odd similarity here.
They are probably just ultra marine successors.
Oh boy, another Arch Warhammer 40 0000 K video on Batlemace 40 000 000 chapter on the ManBulls volume of Star Marines. This is a good day
The start to an awesome weekend, with beer in hand and Arch playing, I am ready!
Read somewhere that one of the writers for badab war supposedly stated minotaurs are of iron warriors geneseed. However minotaurs aggression suggests world eaters more, or if chimeric genessed lore bit is still valid, could very well be both(and/ or have a bit of death guars thrown into the mix as well).
Speaking of both, let's see what you guys think of this - a penitent/redemption founding, using traitor geneseed for a loyalist chapter, one for each of the traitor legions. For 12th, we got wrath-hounds - black armor trimmed with bronze(a la red hand destroyers) with bronze helmets for veterans, symbol is pre-heresy fanged maw modified to look like a studded collar and open max of an angry hound at the same time, hence the name, special decoration include chains(to symbolize their discipline) and any pattern that spilled enemy blood forms upon armor surface before cleaning(keeping the outline only) would be quite capable aircraft pilots, favored cqc weapon either an axe(chain or power) or a fist(power or chain), pick one.
For 4th legion - got a color scheme(gunmetal blue with silver/steel trim), unique decorations are castle wall and hazard stripe pattern, symbol is a cross between their pre-heresy iron mask and barad-dur tower from lord of the rings, favored cqc weapon a power breaching halberd(with a crowbar on the butt end of the haft for crowbar stuff), skilled tankers and gunners, current working title for them is wallbreakers. Almost got everyone done(the 3rd, 14th and 20th still don't have fixed color scheme yet).
Hm, interesting take on their "Freedom"... I wonder who could be considered more "Free" the Minotaurs with their Edict and backing, or the Carcharadons out in the void without overnight?
Interesting take also, on their gene seed. I have only ever heard speculated they were Iron Warriors, chimeric or straight up.
Awesome video as always you Norwegian Mountain Monkey😁👍
Gonna need to take the bit about saving a forge world in the past for my own marines. Didn't realize how many power weapons I was giving them.
Arch you bit off the mark there - technology of aspirant's rapid growth was indeed mentioned as something World Eaters dabbled in, but planet where such event was described have been raided by Iron Hands - and technology was looted by them as well, making it way more likely that its Iron Hands geneseed mixed in, not Death Guard. And as for relic vehicles Ferrus'es spawns (with cooperation of Mechanicus) are the ones most capable of maintaining and possibly even producing such constructs.
I'd say iron warriors (which seems to be the consensus if not outright lore) and either Imperial fists or space wolves for the loyalty, and sheer rockcrete wall they have in temperament
I like to think the Lamenters simply were so used to the attrition that they somehow outlasted the minotaurs or theirs a 21st founding kinship that granted them a small mercy.
The State Security of the Highlords of Terra, i almost wonder if they used Angron as the base material and tampered it with a loyalist like Rogal Dorn. I suppose another explanation for the wargear aside from their patrons is if they were originally founded by traitor legion blackshields they could easily have pilfered several traitor equipment stockpiles during and after the Heresy. After all Traitor Legion leadership suffered pretty massive casualties too, and with the remaining traitor primarchs going to play minecraft creative mode with their personalized circles of Hell there's likely a lot of their armories and caches lost to time.
They just added female custodes in the latest codex. Just a heads up
World Eaters + Iron Warriors. They had automatic beef with the Imperial Fists when they were around them.
Oh, I wish Arch would do something, anything, for the castodies. I wish to learn from him how they are made if nothing else.
One of the most Bad-Ass chapters of all!
They just show up and wreck shit any and every time they appear.
Minotaur is a half man half bull chimera, so it's a cheeky reference to chimeric chapter, while at the same time alluding to Hellenic Spartan aesthetic.
My head canon is that the chapter existence is the aligned interest of Lords of Terra and Custodes to keep Astartes on a tighter leash. Lords of Terra surely are annoyed with their autonomy, while for Custodes view all Astartes as traitors just waiting to happen. Remember that not a single Custodes betrayed the Emperor, while half of Astartes did. Considering the mission of the Minatours to annihilate specifically renegade SM and not chaos SM reflects on Custodes past failure to save the Emperor from traitors, not some demons.
While Minotaurs are chimeric Astartes, I want to believe that Asterion Moloch himself is a Custodes directing the actions of the chapter. This would explain his gear as no Custodes would donate a relic variant of Guardian Spear to a filthy Astartes, his age, his chapter's gear (Terran Artisan clans are technologically more advanced than Admech and they make gear for Custodes). It would explain his demeanour and insults towards Astartes allies (a good Custodes holds those potential traitors at a spear's length at all times). Most importantly it would finally do real justice towards describing Custodes power. It would however explain the heavy censure not as something against the Inquisition, but as a secret from Astartes who would cry injustice against their autonomy.
What if the Minotaurs are the War Hounds that refused the Butchers Nails when Angron demanded the legion has them fitted? Hidden away by Terra to escape Angrons wrath...
@Arch Heard someone set Arch's house on fire?! Is this real?
Does anyone else feel like there's no Roman chapter? I know the smurfs exist but they just seem like space Macedonians, or something else. No chapter seems Roman, although the fist might be close. Unless there's a chapter I don't know about, which is highly possible.
Look up some original Thunder Warrior art.
I’ve got the image of the Minotaurs getting sent to Vraks with the rest of chapters deployed there. Their tactics and arsenal would’ve been hella appreciated