Oh mannnn Ray. We've all been there before. I could feel the struggle throughout this process to ultimately end the way you work so hard to avoid. I had this happen on a 95 Millenia with the 2.5L KL, on a bolt next to the frame rail. I ended up welding threads to the broken off bolt and using it as a stud with a nut. It worked, but I wasn't proud. Glad I could come up with an engine to help you get this thing back on the road.
We love watching both of these channels! My wife even watches with me. Now she knows why repairs cost so much. Lots of complicated work and love the networking with Eric. Good Day and God Bless!
Hey Ray, Use the old water pump as a drill guide. You might have to make a drill bushing to go in the water pump to match a drill that is 80% of the bold diameter.
Great idea, I would also drill out all of the remaining bolt , Then call in a really good aluminum welder to fill in the hole, grind and file it as flat as possible , Use your old water pump trick again and line up the new hole, drill and tap. Got to be cheaper than a replacement engine.
Make a guide bush/sleeve to fit the water pump with the inside diameter of the sleeve the diameter needed to tap the thread afterwards. Oxy acetylene on the bolt first and get it red hot would have probably released it, before it sheared.
Next time, put the old pump back on and use it to center a drill bit of the size of the bolt. That will give you a nice dimple in the middle of the broken bolt. Once you have that, it’s much easier to drill out the bolt without damaging the threads, using progressively larger , preferably left handed, drill bits, until you get to one size below the bolt size. If the remains have not come free by then, you can use a tap to finish off. If that still doesn’t do it, then a helicoil insert is the only option, but at least the hole will still be centred correctly.
100% agree, id even over size the bolt if it had to be drilled all the way out and aluminum taps really easy with the right tapping fluids. I worked in a machine shop. JOB SHOP not car repair shop but we made motor parts and other stuff.
This is not a “mistake”. This is corrosion of a bolt on an old engine. Old things break. Ray, you did nothing wrong. Read the comments of some of your followers. Many of them have good ideas to work around this. I admire you standing by this and your willingness to replace the motor.
If it breaks when coming apart, then the fastener is the problem. If it breaks when you are putting it together, you are the problem. As my old mechanic buddy once said!
@@jameshill3165 actually he did a bumch wrong. He started out trying to take that bolt off with the cordless miluakee wratchet which on the first impact of the hammer exceeds the torque rating of those little waterpump fasteners.
@@MAGA_EXTREM1STBut the torque required to remove the bolt shouldn't exceed the bolts strength, regardless of what tool you use, unless there's corrosion, which was the case. If him using that ratchet was at fault it would've broke when he applied said ratchet.
Ray, a couple of suggestions with respect to this situation. 1) buy left handed drill bits. These often work as backing these broken bolts out once you've removed enough of the meat of them. 2) Get a mini-inductor RF heater. Yes, Eric O. is the god of the cutting torch but few are as good at using one, and not setting the car on fire, as he is. Nonetheless heat is normally the answer. A question: Is your welder flux core or 75/25 gas. If you're cheap a simple CO2 tank will work for the purposes you're using your welder for but produces a lot more spatter than the 75/25. The problem with flux core is the flux contaminates the weld when used in the manner you were trying to. If you're laying down a bead it's fine as you can wire brush or chip the flux off but when you're on and off the trigger this becomes a problem as the flux inclusions weaken the weld as you apparently found out. Just trying to help.
not sure if this engine is cast steel or aluminium. but in case of aluminium those induction heaters have another advantage. as you heat only the bolt (yeah, tricky depending on how litle sticks out, but doable) there is way less risk of melting or cracking anything with a torch. especially around those machined gasket surfaces.
*_Call a machine shop or a call local machinist shop and hire someone to do it in their off time. 2. If you already fk up or they can come to you go to them!!!! Jesus christ!!! Where are the smart people!!!_*
*_Not to knock all your welding tips down but that bolt wasn't going to come back out and he should at that point drilled out the hole, welded it back in and drill/tap the hole again...20 minute repair tops_*
Ps… to get the broken stud extractor out, remember though hardened it is still steel. The trick is to use an ordinary welder, not a MIG and tap an ordinary welding rod on the extractor. It will arc and stick the rod to the broken extractor. The extractor thread it’s self is not stuck so you can just turn the welding and unscrew, remembering it is a left hand thread. This technique also works well on broken head bolts etc. 😀
Ray, your integrity is such that you included this video as part of the process. Some might be inclined to just make this job "disappear" from TH-cam viewers and move on. You show the realities of wrenching on cars, warts and all. Sometimes, we learn solutions together. You'll get this figured out, and then it's on to the next job.
Boy does this take me back. Machinist for 40 years. Sometimes they just don’t go your way. Before it gets this bad, grind a flat surface on your stud, use a center punch(spring loaded works well too). If you have to drill make sure it’s on center and straight. Ez outs usually won’t work if they’re engaged in two dissimilar metals. Someone else mentioned using the old pump to locate center. I once made an adapter to mount a mag drill on a Farmall tractor just to drill two broken studs. Aluminum/corrosion can complicate things in old engines. Good luck.
Ray use the welder on the easyout. It will do 2 things. Soften the metal making it drillable and also help relive the corrosion. Second drill the bolt out to the diameter of the inside of the threads. Then use a pick and chip away at the left threads. they will peel out. When you drill the bolt be sure to drill completely thru the bolt it gives you an out to drive any broken pieces out. To drill hard steel use a cobolt drill bit they stand up better to hard steel. drill slow and use lube to keep the drill cool.
I feel the problem is drilling through the bolt without drifting off into the block. Any good trick to avoid this when all you can get at it with is a hand drill. Makes me wonder if I could design a drill guide to thread onto the stud or into the threaded hole if the bolt breaks deep... Heck if I can imagine it someone has already tried it, And if it isn't a standard tool then it doesn't work as I would want it to... Still can't help but think on it some more.
@@blahorgaslisk7763They have guides like that, I have a set but rarely use them because after a while of extracting many broken bolts and studs you get pretty good with a drill.
It's good to see that Ray is willing to share his mistakes along with his wins. The bolt broke but not because Ray did anything wrong. Stuff just happens when working on any piece of machinery.
Ray some advice after the fact. Easy outs are useless unless the bolt is not really stuck. They are brittle like taps and will break. Get yourself some left hand drill bits. File the bolt shank flat on the face and carefully center punch. start drilling with the left hand drills, stopping with the tap drill size for the existing thread. You will most likely be able to unwind the remaining thread out from the stuck bolt. If not, you can use a helicoil to bring the thread back to the original size or use a larger bolt and retap the hole.
@@thecuss6817 I agree EZ outs are useless but left hand drills can do some great things when removing stuck bolts. 45 years as a master machinist, I have removed my share of problem fasteners.
A small comment: before the easy-out, I may have considered drilling out the broken bolt further. You probably were not centered, but if you were, the closer you got to the thread hole size, maybe you could have collapsed the bolt with a chisel. You couldn't have been any worse off than you ended up.. Oh well, these things happen, Ray. It was not your fault. The bolt broke off, yes, but it was Subaru who designed a bolt into the water jacket that could corrode and seize in the block. You're a good mechanic, Ray.
I had this on a Subaru before, I bolted the old water pump back on as a guide, then wrapped a 5.5 mm drill in electrical tape until it was a close fit in the old pump. Then drilled the bolt center out which left me with just the threads in the hole. I then grabbed the end thread with needle nose pliers and pulled. It came out like a spring unwinding Job rescued. Unfortunately you now have an easy out stuck in the hole. I never use easy outs (never out) as for me they always end this way. If you can weld to the broken easy out and pull it back out you can still use the old pump method.
Ray, another option is to acquire a couple carbide drill bits.. they will drill out the ez-out, in fact, they will maintain an edge while getting red hot. I used to use these to remove snapped off mold ejector pins (harder than the hubs of hell) as a tool maker. Also, you can try using a hard punch about the size of the bolt diameter and hitting directly on the face of the broken bolt which normally will pop out the ez-out stub. Have done this on broken exhaust manifold bolts in exactly the same spot you are in. Feel your pain!
I once went through eight ez-outs (snap, snap, snap...) on one broken bolt on an excavator and ended up drilling out the bolt to chisel out the threads anyway.
I did one on a 2007 Forester. Had the same issue on all the water pump bolts. Used a soldering gun to heat the bolt up and it eventually came out. Took liike 4 or 5 hours !
I needed to remove the hose connector fitting for the garden hose reel cart. It was corroded on so tight that when trying to loosen the nut connector, it completely snapped the water connection valve off at the assembly, I thought I’d have to buy an entire new hose reel cart. What I did was, buy a hose repair kit with a new connector adapter. It worked perfectly and no leaks. There’s always a way to fix what’s “broken” thank you for your honesty and showing us how we’re all human and things don’t go how we planned or hoped for, no matter how hard we try but I know you will find the way to repair the resolve the issue. Can’t wait for the updated video. Thank you Ray 🙏🏼
NOT YOUR FAULT. Steel in aluminum corrodes and it can be almost impossible to overcome. Bravo to you for posting this video, Ray. I did something like this once before on a component that was irreplaceable, then I broke a tap off. it was ugly. It made me wonder if I'd bought more expensive taps and easy outs this would not have happened. Problem is, the high carbon steel needed to cut metal ends up being more brittle. You end up blaming yourself because the drill bit walked or the angle was wrong. Most of us are one broken bolt away from being over our heads.
This is one of the reasons I don’t miss being a technician. You never know when you’re one bolt away from a catastrophe. Stay positive Ray. Put it behind you and move forward.
@@46bovine that’s the tricky part. It’s not the customers fault, but also not Rays. I think it’s likely a risk a business takes. I’d be curious to know what a business would normally do in this situation. (Or Ray for that matter) as far as what the customer pays. It’s already an old vehicle and likely not worth the fix already
@@timewa851 Nope. Even if the stud is snapped flush with the block, welding a washer onto it and then a nut works very well. I do it all the time. He can still do it now by welding something onto the easy out and then removing it. Why he doesn't try rather than just buying an engine I don't know. Works like 97.5% of the time. Welding to the washer is better than trying to weld to a nut since the washer is thin and you have a much better chance of getting a solid weld to the stud rather than arcing to the nut which is what seems to have been happening to him. Plus the extra heat getting into the block and stud from welding the washer helps release the stud from the block. I just did at least 8 of these on my Tundra frame that I swapped from a rotted one to a newer one. If you want a video I'll send you one to show how effective it is.
Another comment. Your order of escalation could have been better. Start the drilling process first when you still had a 1/4" of the bolt standing out away from the block. 1) Use a right angle die grinder to flatten the remaining sticking out bolt. 2) Use a center punch to make an indentation as close to the center of the bolt as possible to prevent bit wonder. 3) Start with a 1/8" diameter drill, the one you used flexed way too much giving you an off center hole. 3) I recommend using a MAC, Norseman Vortex bit or Astro Pneumatic Turbo bit. All of these bits have drill point ends that look like a step drill, these tend to wonder less than conventional bits. If you drill the hole slightly oversized it doesn't matter as you need to drill an oversized hole for a Helicoil anyway so it's not that big of a deal. Once you have the Helicoil in you can either reinsert the bolt or make a stud from a bolt to complete the job.
As long as you are pulling the motor and it's a good one, take it to a machine shop and have them deal with it. Your efforts won't be wasted and it will be cheaper than replacement. If they will let you observe how it's done, your skill set will be improved.
Ray the most important part is the fact you were honest about it and exhausted all efforts to fix your mistake. That broken bolt was not your fault. You were doomed from the start.
Hi Ray, I would not give up on that engine unless you need it as a core. You could always fix it and keep it as a spare long block. I retired at the end of 2020 after spinning wrenches for 38 years. I was they guy everyone called when they ran into situations like this. I would install the old part and use a drill bushing, a NEW left-hand jobber-length Titanium Nitride bit, and lots of patience. Titanium Nitride bits are harder than Cobalt. The downside is you can't sharpen them because the TiN is only a coating, so for critical jobs like this, I consider them a single-use item. I used to buy my 1/8" jobber length TiN bits in bulk packages to save money.
Great advice, Ray if you can afford to fix the engine afte it's removed, i'm sure there's a market for the long block. I really appreciate your videos and your honesty - keep the faith every business has these times.
Worst case, try to find a reliable small machine shop who can try and safe the block without further butchering the stuff. Maybe some other youtuber would be willing to do it. If not for this car, at leasthe could salvage and sell the engine and cut his losses. with that broken eazy out and only hand tools even the old pump as a drill bushing might not do you any good here. the housing might be too soft, but with a good hard drill it might even work as it prevents the drill from wandering around. geting that thing out definitely is quite a task. and you cannot put unlimited amounts of heat in this engine block, as it might warp the machined surface. I am wondering, is this enginge cast steel or aluminium? if the second there might be even a risk melting some aluminium before the broken bolt gets hot enough. I guess rather precise machining is all that can be done here.
had the same thing happen. used a diamond bit with my dermal tool to get the e z out -out about 2 hr then put the old pump back on with 2 bolts tight . then use a drill bit that will just go in the hole to drill out the broke bolt. take pump back off and drill hole out to the right size for a HeliCoil . kit come's with the right size drill bit and tap for the coil. install coil and it is much better then new. this will bring it back to the right size bolt.
When it broke off near flush, I'd have reached for my small stash of short thin bushings, used them to get a useful drill bit centered in the bore in the waterpump, and then I'd have used the water pump as a jig to drill out the broken bolt. Once that was out, I'd have helicoiled the hole. BTW, using any easy-out smaller than 6mm in tip diameter is a guarantee of a failed repair in my experience. I pretty much don't even try to use them at all, I gave up on them a good 40 years ago. I'll make a jig to center the drill before I'll trust an easy-out to not break. They're really that useless when you've got a soft steel bolt seized in an aluminum hole.
Hey Ray, this is just another challenge! There are a number of options available short of replacing the engine/block assembly as indicated by the comments of your channels followers in this video…I’ve used a number of those tips and tricks myself with great success! Don’t waste time on stress, develop a plan of attack and get back at it. Good luck, Ray 👍
Ray, have you considered using a helicoil? You would drill the hole to the appropriate size, insert the helicoil and you would be good to go, The main thing is that you would need to precisely drill the hole in the block so you might have to pull the engine to do it right.
Hey Ray. Get a piece of short copper pipe with the inside diameter just larger than the bolt size, and build up your weld through the inside of the copper pipe. It's always worked for me. Remove the pipe and then weld your nut onto that. Take care.
Speaking from experience in having ez outs break on me I know a few tricks to get them out. 1) use an auto center punch repeatedly at an angle to loosen it. 2) same thing with a regular small chisel or punch and hammer. 3) use a pencil grinder or Dremel and show that ez out whos boss. I normally use a McMaster Carr double cut ball. I cannot remember the part number but get a few different sizes just in case
@@572Btriode snap-on doesn't even make their own ezouts. I believe Irwin Hanson makes them and snap-on puts their name on them. At least that's what my snap-on guy told me when I had to wait over a year to get some of mine replaced under warranty.
Im so surprised that no one had suggested a set of Left Hand Drills, which all you do is drill by repeatedly increasing diameters until nearly the diameter of the hole is reached. Normally, before you get to the largest drill that will go into the hole is reached, the old bolt thread comes sliding out on your drill. It does tak a little patience, as you have to drill very carefully. But L/H or anti-clockwise drills have gotten me out of many a scrape. Hope that will help you for the future, as "easy outs", I have learned, are very rarely easy outs 😢 Oh, and by the way, i learned that 20 years ago from an old Audi mechanic who was fixing my water pump on an old Saab. All he did was grind it flat, centre punched it, and drilled very gently 3 sizes, and out it came. Magic 🎉
Hey Ray, I am a retired Mek a nek, of over 40 years. There was nothing that you could do, Doomed from the start (You felt it) Cross metal corrosion. I didn't read all the comments, But there is some good advice. I have done more than my share of these. YOU CAN DO IT! The longest one that I have done took almost 16 hours. 1st "PB Blaster" about every 10 minutes. Remove Radiator, Grille and any other obstacles. Try a small, strong pair of needle nose to remove Extractor (Righty/Loosey). If that doesn't work then a good tap with a Center Punch May shatter it. Next go buy 2 sets of LH or reverse drill bits. sometimes with these it pulls the broken piece out as you drill. if not then a Heli coil is the last resort. I liked the comment of using the old water pump as a guide, but it looks like you are pretty centered. Most important is Patience. Get frustrated, step back and take a breath. OHMS WATTAGE, OHMS WATTAGE. You Got This!
Ray...I've done way more of these Subie timing belts and head gaskets than I'd like to admit to...when you line up the engine for a timing belt and that crank is on the mark the pistons aren't actually anywhere near the heads. Seems like some engineer at Subaru designed the timing marks so that no cylinder is at top dead center when all the marks are lined up...but the closest any piston to a head is literally half way up the bore. If a cam should slip during a timing belt job....just line the cam's timing marks back up and try again...zero chance of damage.
also the damage is from the force of the impact, when doing by hand if you feel it hit thats an oops and back up, no harm done. but if it's out of time and runs like that it effectively punches itself thus the critical damage
One thing you may want to invest in for future use is a set of reverse drill bits so that if it comes to drilling out a bolt like that, it may end up walking itself out as you drill, thus saving you this kind of headache.
Ray you may have a couple of options. Mark the block to maintain the stud centre location, drill out the whole mess, tap the new hole. From here you have two options, drill out the waterpump to fit an oversized stud or Bolt , or you can use two bolts. one to fit the new thread then a smaller bolt (with the head removed) welded to the oversized one to fit the existing waterpump and turn the mess into a stud. Another option you have is to build up the remains of the bolt as you were doing, then weld some thread (bolt with head removed) onto what you have built up to turn the whole lot into a stud. I do not know if you will have the physical room to refit a waterpump, but it may give you some more options. Good luck with it, Nah you don't need luck, you are bloody good at what you do. Cheers from Australia
If it was me I would probably try to drill it out and helicoil it. It's a waterpump, I think it would probably be able to take the clamping force for the gasket.
I agree with Chris Ts "try" methods. The job can't get any worse Ray. There's no winning with corrosion at the end of the threads. It was doomed before "Pop'n Thee Hood".
Here is something I have done in the past. I took a smaller bolt and cut it and made a stud and nut to seal the water pump. Just added a gob of siilicone and tightened just enough to seal it.(Worked) 5 yrs and still holding 100% Good Luck
The only thing worse than seeing an honest mechanic fail on this bolt is seeing how much it hurts you for being an honest mechanic. Kudos ray for keeping integrity and doing the right thing even when its the hardest thing to do. Takes guts and show you really care.
A suggestion to try next time Ray, try unscrewing the brass nozzle from over the tip of your welder when next welding a nut over a stud. You are welding without shielding gas (ie. flux core welding) so that nozzle serves no purpose when doing what you are doing. You will get a better view and might build stronger welds because you will be able to see whether the weld wire is contacting the point between the nut edge and stud rather than just welding a pool from the middle of the stud. Humour me and try it as an experiment.
I have had good luck welding a larger flat washer to the stud first then weld the nut to the washer. You can get more surface weld that way and not likely to break off. Using water or freeze to cool it and shock it somewhat will help also.
My go to method when you have a broken stud that is sticking out is to use a pair of vice grips that you clamp on as hard as you can. I dont think it has ever failed me.
Ray, had to watch this twice, to make sure I saw what I did see. I felt your pain and suffering. Sometimes you get your xss handed to you by something you’ve done before. Unfortunately it happens to all of us and the simplest of things become a real nightmare. Ignore comments from those that say they could have done better, as they weren’t there. It could have been a poorly manufactured bolt that had multiple hairline fractures. You will never know. Thank goodness that “I Do Cars” could help you out of your situation, by selling you another engine. The really sad/bad part is the amount of time and $ you have, and will continue to loose on that repair job. This is another reason that most shops won’t install customer parts. The markup on parts helps you to be able to cover unusual situations like this. Shake off the bad day and come back stronger tomorrow. We are all cheering you on, especially your endeavor to run a good honest repair shop.
As an ex-mechanic I totally feel for you. I have watched the work that you do and I am so impressed. You take on work that I would have run a mile from in my working days. You did nothing wrong with this, it was a mine waiting to be stepped on and you were just unlucky.
Hang in there Ray. You do such an amazing job working on cars for a living while videoing everything… I have had this happen to me at my place of work, I know the frustrations it causes. Amazing work Ray!!!
I’ve been there several times in my 30+ yrs as a dairy processing plant mechanic. I see others suggested using the old pump as a guide. Of course best done BEFORE breaking off the tap, however, there IS a tool that removes broken taps. Basically hard wires that slide into the tap grooves, and you back out the tap by turning the tool. I’ve used it and it works about half the time. So using the pump as a guide, use a drill that fits snugly in the hole to get a good centered dimple in the broken bolt, then you can pull the pump and drill out the bolt to the proper size to tap. Hang in there brother, thanks for being real!
Had this happen to me back in 2020 while replacing a water pump on a '65 Buick Wildcat with a 401 cu in engine. There were like a dozen 1/4 inch fine threaded bolts and the threads were almost non existent. Spent hours with easy outs, drilling, etc. Finally ended up using a carbon rod out of the center of a size D flashlight battery and running it through a pencil sharpener to give it a nice point then connected it to the positive battery end and placed the tip against the broken ez out until it turned cherry red and lost its temper. Then drilled out the ez out, bolt and all and used a 5/16 to 1/4 inch threaded insert. Ended up having to repeat the process a total of 5 times to save the timing cover. Took me almost three days and had to walk away for about an hour between each insert. Mainly to get away from the customer who did his best to camp out for the entire process. Finally ended up convincing his wife to haul him out of the shop. It worked out perfectly, and that Buick was an awesome ride. 34,225 original miles, even the interior was all original and looked like no one had ever sat in it. Love your videos sir. Having been a professional wrench twister for over 55 years, It is refreshing to see an expert mechanic working in actual realistic situations. Rusty bolts and oil leaks that don't appear to have an actual source. jobs with 8 hour book times that you can do in 1 or 2 hours and others that book out like 8 units (48 minutes) that take over an hour just to get to the part. I'm 72 and still wrenching, and it's a joy to watch a tech that approaches each job with common sense and experience not just following some flow chart and then firing the parts cannon. I spent most of my life following those parts cannon guys and actually repairing the problem, usually for less than ten cents on the dollar of those insane estimates. Please keep up the posting. It's the best therapy for an old guy who's lost his faith in the aftermarket repair industry. God bless ya Ray,
This is a really good video of what can go wrong AND the consequences when something does go wrong. As others have stated earlier "we have all been there." Thanks for including the hard stuff.
Love ya, Ray. Getting caught up in the job happens to everyone. My best advice is to STOP. A replacement bolt takes time to get, so your schedule is hit already. Once you've got a good look at your problem back off, calm down and then take time listing all of your options for dealing with it, what will help and what will hurt. If you couldn't get it out the engine would have to be pulled and stripped then both actions have to be weighed for improving your chances for success. May open more options as well.
Ray, don't let this one get the best of you, you did everything you could and did it correctly! I KNOW you can get the rest of it out, you just need some time away from it to regain your patience and clear perspective. YOU GOT THIS BUDDY! You're one of the best mechanics I've ever seen! I HAVE FAITH IN YOU MAN!
I keep a set of left-hand twist drills on hand for just this reason. Start out small and step up in size. At some point you will have removed enough material that the shell of the bolt will spin out as you drill. I’ve had much better results than using a tap-out. This damaged engine could also be saved after taken out by taking it to a machine shop and having the tap-out burnt out and an insert installed. We use these all the time to burn out broken taps and it works a treat.
I was a mechanic at a major beef plant for 7 years. Its this type of stresses that made me go back to being a butcher! Imagine a saw was broke, and bosses all around me yelling to hurry the hell up because the production line is down! Snapped off bolts, snapped off easy outs and countless number of drill bits . Here i am cutting meat again! I feel your pain Ray!😮
This video has comforted me somewhat. To know that an expert like Ray can be defeated by a corroded bolt makes my many defeats with corroded bolts a bit more bearable.....And also makes my horror and terror when I find yet another stuck bolt a bit less soul destroying.
I have to say - big reason I come back time after time is your honesty. We all have been there - mine was rebooting domain server / print server combo on a weekend, lost raid card - had to work all weekend and cancel plans - to get us back into business. I know not even close - just know even your fans/friends are behind you. Heck so many have your back in their thoughts and going to check out your merch as a way to help even a little. Bless you.
What you need is a guide to be able to drill straight into the broken easyout/bolt. You might try bolting the old water pump back on using it as a guide to drill the bolt out. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but if you're looking at swapping an engine it's worth a try.
Busted screws/bolts/nuts happen all the time. Part of life. I am a retired gunsmith, so I don't know if my technique for removing stuck (either too tight or corrosion) screws would work on stuck automotive bolts. But here goes. I would first pour some Kroil ( I have no association with them) on the head of the screw or threads if accessible. Gun was oriented so the screw shaft was vertical in orientation. Then I would give a sharp smack with a hammer on a brass punch positioned on the head of the screw. More Kroil, another smack, more Kroil. Then go home. In the morning the screws normally came out easily. Important point here is to let the lubricant (Kroil) sit for several hours before applying torque.
I know this pain very well. Broken bolts in an aluminium block/Cylinder head can and are hard to get out. In my opinion Ray, too much torque was used and rushing the removal is not a good combination. I would have used an old-school manual rig spanner so I could 'FEEL" the bolt and work it out slowly so as not to break it off. I am a retired motor mechanic and have come across this hundreds of times. Lots of WORDS are yelled out and walkaways and timeouts to rethink what I had done wrong and how to fix it without destroying what I was supposed to repair. You did the right thing and let us see a mistake made warts and all. I myself have a broken exhaust stud on a very rare, very vintage Skyline. The engine is a 3L straight 6 OHC and stud number 12 at the back of the head had broken off from thermal cycling and age and was a 1990s Nissan factory recall to replace these 12 studs. The factory exhaust manifold warped causing the studs to snap off level with the head surface. The only fix was to install after-market headers 6 into 2 then 2 into 1 3-inch collector to the Catalytic converter. It's been 15 years and the broken stud has not been repaired because it is not leaking and no other studs have broken. "Why fix something that is not causing trouble?" The 34-year-old engine has never been touched other than 1 water pump and a timing belt. The engine only has 122k miles since it was built and I do not want to disturb a perfectly running engine to fix 1 broken stud. To repair this stud would mean removing the cylinder head as there is no room to work on it as there is a 1.5-inch clearance between the back engine and the firewall, So it's being left as is. Love your channel Rayman.
Hi ray, the solution that no one has suggested and I would find to be the simplest thing to do is to drill out the mess, Tap the hole for a helicoil to be inserted that is then the size of the original bolt, acquire a replacement bolt or two and no one would be the wiser and it wouldn't be expensive as replacing the whole engine.
Ray is such a nice person and honest. Wish his business was near me. I had a Honda dealer snap off two spark plugs in the head of my CNG civic. They had the exact procedure done that you spoke of. But they made me pay for it.
@@Chairman750 that was my question too. We went back and forth over it. They didn’t want to budge and I needed my commuter car to get to my job. I spent thousands there because I don’t know how to work on a natural gas car. But I’m gonna learn. They lost a customer over $300.
@AstroBoy AU You can't drill out a snapped Easy-Out. They are hardened steel, normal drill bits won't even scratch them. Did you miss the part in the video where Ray tells us about that? The snapped bolt is not the immediate problem now.
Ray, you might want to call around and see if a local machinist could take a crack at it. I've seen a machinist disolve a bolt with salted water electrolysis. Broken taps can also be removed the same way.
And with this physics degree you have what does cold do to corrosion…and if he’s working with aluminum head would cold do anything? Or do you just try to be the smartest one in the room
@@adamdurham7643 Enough posturing. Heat works. They even make tools for heating bolts in engine blocks… aluminum or not. I was also wondering why Ray didn’t try a torch before breaking it.
Wax and a blow torch. Heat the broken stud, then throw wax on it. Then vise grip/plyers to unscrew it out. The wax will melt and seep into the threads and break the corrosion off. If it starts to seize repeat the process. I’ve done this on every broken stud I’ve encountered and works like a champ!
My best friend has been an automotive machinist for 30+ years. He is a wizard at removing broken bolts. BTW if you think broken bolts in a car are a nightmare to get out, try ones in stereos. Tiny ones you can't weld to. Loved it when the cheap soft steel screws corroded to the brass inserts. Don't you have anyone in your area with a metal disintegrator? His method was level bolt off, center punch , then progressively larger drill buts with mass lube until he could either get a remover in or go in with a pick and remove the threads with it. I truly feel your pain.
Nothing but respect for you Ray. My fingers were crossed and I even caught myself holding my breath hoping this would work out. Still, you knew when to say enough was enough. Like I said, nothing but respect for you.
Hi Ray, Just thinking, I'm a locksmith, and when drilling safes, locksmiths use "BUTTER BITS" from PRO-LOK. These bits can drill through a ball bearing. Using the water pump guide idea, this should drill through the easy-out. And, you can get hardened drill bushings there too. Don't beat yourself up over this, I'm 72 and this has happened to me a lot. You'll come out fine! Your friend Dave.🥸
You are an excellent businessman, buying another engine even though you were not responsible for the bolt breaking off. Three cheers for Eric for finding another engine. I think you and Eric make great, informative videos.
Hi Ray, big hello from the UK. I feel your pain. I've given up with easy outs.. I've broke far too many, so now I drill out the stud including the threads and use helicoils....keep up the videos and don't get downhearted my friend! Take care.
Makes me jealous AF to see how clean these Florida vehicles are. I did a clutch on my mates 05 reg 2.2 Mondeo the other month. I ended up breaking half a dozen bolts in the process every one of which I either had to drill and tap or weld a new captive nut on and several were a fight to the death even with heat and air tools. I was so mad. I could not be a professional mechanic, there would be to much swearing a tool throwing!
As someone who deals with rusted junk all the time I feel your pain. For me I would grab an old water pump, toss it on a drill press or better a mill, and drill the mounting hole out to accept a hardened bushing that is a size smaller internally than the broken bolt. Then bolt the pump on. Lube the crap out of the bushing. Then use a carbide end mill that slips into the bushing to cut the bolt and easy out out of the hole. Cut a second or two, blow the chips out and repeat until the hole is open. Now go in and clear out what is left of the bolt threads with a drill and install a time-sert. Have done this a few times on blocks and heads where the corrosion or the ham fisted moron cross threaded bolts in aluminum. Basically the same process you use to drill out manifold bolts, just using the water pump as the guide (and to keep the swarf out of the engine)
I note that ‘South Main Auto” uses Magnetic Induction Heater to get the stud red hot before extraction - unfortunately too late. He was using such a tool to remove manifold studs. If possible you could have drilled out to a larger diameter, tapped the hole and then used a larger diameter bolt or a thread screw sleeve. Maybe a skilled welder could plug the hole so that you could drill tap and start again.
I feel for you Ray, been there done that also in my mechanics days. BUT I will say this, give up on it for a day or two then come back have another go. I find this often helps, clears the mind and sometimes brings a fresh outlook. This should be savable without a replacement block, which MAY have other inherent problems...good luck !!!
This sort of thing happens all the time here in the UK, after a while you get used to drilling out broken bolts/studs and re-tapping threads, it just becomes normal in the end.
After broken stud removed (EDM), use helicoil or other thread repair, then get back to work. Alternatively, drill up to next size, thread, back to work. The accessory casting hole can be drilled up to new screw clearance diameter. Apply antiseize to those screws.
Ray I have removed 100s of this type of bolts and the first step is to stop and think before making it worst and in my experience if heat hasnt made a difference then dont even consider an easy out To remove this I would have used the water pump housing as a drill guide to centre drill the end of the bolt then moving in small increments starting with 3mm then 3.5mm then 4mm until you get to the inner diameter of thread 5mm for a 6mm bolt then you have a chance of getting the remaining thead out if this can be done then run a tap down to clean it up or a drill to set up a thread insert Takes time but nearly always works
Ray this is why people love ya and trust you! I don't know many people that would have not shown this to the world. This will pay off in spades for you down the line.
Ray - you displayed lots of courage to post this video. You didn’t have to and no one would have known the difference. Good on ya’, mate. Good luck with the rest of the job and the customer.
@@defresurrection courage that he posted what happened. do you tell everyone your failures or just your wins? most of us shy away from telling the world when we have failures.
so +Rainman Ray's Repairs had the same issue, but with a stud for the mainifold on a saab 9-5. broke off before entered the shop 1 of the studs. basically fix was. not weld etc. what we did was. Drill through it lose the tension of the stud, with that we used a reverse threader/screw extractor. basically that drill through broke it lose and it was free to move again. so next time you encounter the issue drill through it with a small drill. then go up in size and then use a reverse threader/screw extractor. and it should come out as a charm.
In my previous life as a motorcycle mechanic, I feel your pain. Drilling into steel bolts stuck in alloy can go either way, the bad times can be demoralising and it takes a big person to hand over to someone better equiped (tool and skill). That block is not scrap, the bolt can be drilled out in a jig with guided bit. Worse case drilled oversize and a plug inserted, best case would be a helicoil.
Absolutely, and use the old water pump as a drilling guild. Done this type of job many time. With the correct tools, a job is easier to a successful end result.
How many "Mechanics" have done this, and just patched it up and sent it on? Probably more than anyone would want to know. But Ray has shown just how a real mechanic would handle a situation like this. If I were the owner of the car, and Ray reached out to me about this, I'd tell him, to just make sure the replacement unit is up to spec, and that I'd pay for whatever the replacement block needed to make it so. The reason I say this, is because Ray was going to have to do these things to the old block, because it was leaking all over the place, so it wouldn't be right, to make him pay for the things, that he was going to have to do anyway. Also, make sure, that the replacement has had the head gaskets replaced, because that was a really bad flaw in those engines. If you don't I guarantee, you'll be doing it, once you get the new engine done, then find it has a bad head gasket leak, which might've been why the engine was salvaged in the first place. Other than that, the H-4 is a pretty bullet proof engine.
If I was the owner of this car, liked it enough and could afford it, I'd tell Ray don't worry about getting a used engine and resealing it, get a quality rebuilt instead, and of course I'd pay for it.
@@JeffDeWitt Sounds like another awesome alternative! A salvaged engine block, is going to cause even more headaches down the road. From the looks of the car, someone loves that car, and I'd say would be willing to spend the extra money, on a certified rebuilt in its place. This, to me anyway, is a happy accident, and one that will make this car a pleasure to drive again.
seems like you and your wife are working very hard thank you so much for the videos I can not wait each day until i see one, but today i feel very sorry for you but in life things happen i have been there and know what it is like ,thanks for this video
I feel the pain with this one. Disaster! 2 cents incoming! Thinking about it.. it could be salvaged, i reckon. Getting tool steel red hot basically softens it, i.e. the extractor that broke could be softened by heating with a torch or welder(while protecting the surroundings) and may allow for the next step. Copy the bolt pattern and transfer it to some steel plate. Drill the pattern (at minimum bit size for our troublesome hole) and bolt the plate back onto the pump interface. This will act as a guide for the drill. Drill out the old bolt and its threads with an end mill or similar stainless steel cutting bit (brand new and super sharp). You can increase the drill size a couple of times till your almost to the threads alternativley just drill it out completely and replace the threads with a locking insert to match the broken bolt. upstairs202 mentiones something similar with using an old pump. A jig is the same principle but may allow you to increase the drill size slowly by increasing the pilot hole size on the jig. Either way its a ballache! Keep up the good work!
Hey Ray I agree with Duncan drilling out is the only way to go with something like that using the old water pump as a template is really smart. I have had this problem in the past and had pretty good success good luck
Ouch Mr Ray. Hate to see that. Maybe once block is taken out the stud can be milled out with a small carbide endmill? We do that at work alot. It's tedious but usually we can get broken bolts and taps out. Good luck 👍🏼👍🏼
Maybe the block will go back to I Do Cars for that very thing. Probably could drill put the hole if you could mount the block on a drill press so the drill or mill doesn’t wander. Impossible to do by hand.
Man I wanted to see you get it out, was hoping you would anyway. I’m a machinist by trade. Invest in some left handed drill bits. Sometimes just drilling with that bit will just back it out. Key word “sometimes “. Enjoy all your content and your positive attitude.
Ray, take heart bud. It takes a real man to admit to mistakes and you're a GIANT among real men. I only hope the customer realizes what a great technician and shop owner you are because another person might have worked the situation around to making it the customer's problem. Also talk with the customer and show him this video, he may be willing to put some extra money in the pot for you.
What's with you people and MISTAKES. The bolt broke, blame the bolt, not Ray. Talk to the customer?😂 So because it didn't make the video it didn't happen. Ray, ignore these people.
Just drill out the bolt and Clean the threads you can drill out the broken bolt without hitting the threads if your careful and then just clean the threads with a thread chaser and good to go @Rainman Ray's Repairs
I always took the whole engine out for better control. It’s a lot more work, but you have much better control over removal of a critical seized stud like this.
Sometimes the simplest jobs end up being the biggest PITAS ever! I know how you feel, Ray. Many times I have spent a lot of time on a simple job that has given me a crap load of grief and jobs that you think are going to be a nightmare end up being a piece of cake. On a side note, that engine looks unnecessarily super over complicated. The thing I liked about the LS in my old Silverado was the simplicity and mostly easy access to service it. Have a great weekend my friend👍
Honestly sir, it’s not the technician that isn’t willing to accept defeat, the shop owner normally pushes the tech to carry forward, even when we are in a position to cut our losses, spoken as a 25 year retired certified mechanic
It's not a mistake, not on Ray's part anyways. Probably the bird brain that installed that bolt on the assembly line cross threaded it and shipped it anyways. What was done was done before it even got to Ray.
Welding onto the easy out will soften it, being a carbon steel, and then you should be able drill the hole out with a carbide drill bit. Going to have to go slow, and maybe repeat a few times with heat to get the easy out softened as you go along. Maybe going to have to pull the motor to work on the block, but it does not need to be replaced because of this. Damage to the aluminum can be repaired with welding and machining if that happens, also a good outcome.
i was refreshing a old 302 block for my ranger and had the same stuff go sideways. two intake manifold bolts, and a water pump bolt. i started with drilling, but made sure to punch a centerpoint for the drill. took it way out to the edge and ran a tap to clean the threads. last one the tap snapped. pick and small needle nose and finally backed it out. what a pita. goodluck!
not really. heating the bolt makes it expand.its good for stuck nuts. if anything then should have tried with freeze spray inside the drilled hole but i think its a lost cause. that freeze spray is usually only used when making electric circuits and not something a mechanic uses. maybe he can be lucky to crush that extractor tip in the hole when he get engine out and have enough room to apply a little violence . the odds are slim but worth a try. works on broken taps.
As I said before south main auto has a very specific procedure for removing these bolts, its starts with grinding the bolt end to give a fresh steel surface for welding, then welding a nut, then third is heating the bolt and nut to cherry red and letting cool before attempting to remove. Eric says he can hear the crud on the bolt cooking in the block as you heat it, he is getting 90% effective removal without headaches.
With the bolt being so far out I would've just hit it with a hammer a few times. Then notch the bolt and use a big flathead screwdriver to extract it. Even if the threads messed up, they're so far at the beginning of the hole you could easily retap the threads. This might not work but it's always worth a try. Regardless if that doesn't work, a machine shop can extract it and fix the threads for you.
Oh mannnn Ray. We've all been there before. I could feel the struggle throughout this process to ultimately end the way you work so hard to avoid. I had this happen on a 95 Millenia with the 2.5L KL, on a bolt next to the frame rail. I ended up welding threads to the broken off bolt and using it as a stud with a nut. It worked, but I wasn't proud. Glad I could come up with an engine to help you get this thing back on the road.
OMG! I've been waiting to see this happen! I thought it would be Scott from VEHCOR though since you seem to be nearby.
Yeah, I had the same idea.
Ha cool of you.
We love watching both of these channels! My wife even watches with me. Now she knows why repairs cost so much. Lots of complicated work and love the networking with Eric. Good Day and God Bless!
All the people to Pin and you choose this guy. 🙄😂
Hey Ray, Use the old water pump as a drill guide. You might have to make a drill bushing to go in the water pump to match a drill that is 80% of the bold diameter.
Great idea, I would also drill out all of the remaining bolt , Then call in a really good aluminum welder to fill in the hole, grind and file it as flat as possible , Use your old water pump trick again and line up the new hole, drill and tap. Got to be cheaper than a replacement engine.
Make a guide bush/sleeve to fit the water pump with the inside diameter of the sleeve the diameter needed to tap the thread afterwards.
Oxy acetylene on the bolt first and get it red hot would have probably released it, before it sheared.
Yes sajing that this engen is toast is like saying that videos from India are all fake.
yes use old pump drill it it will work what have u got to lose, u can fix it ray give it a day an fix it
Great idea
put water pump back on ,use the hole as a guide to center drill bit
,drill center with small bit then helicoil it
42 years of auto repair and that sinking feeling when a bolt breaks hasn't changed a bit....it still hurts.
Next time, put the old pump back on and use it to center a drill bit of the size of the bolt. That will give you a nice dimple in the middle of the broken bolt.
Once you have that, it’s much easier to drill out the bolt without damaging the threads, using progressively larger , preferably left handed, drill bits, until you get to one size below the bolt size.
If the remains have not come free by then, you can use a tap to finish off.
If that still doesn’t do it, then a helicoil insert is the only option, but at least the hole will still be centred correctly.
Super good idea there.
Great idea.
@duncancremin1708 What I would do. And probably go up a size on the bolt and helicoil it.
Exactly correct. Have had success with this method, always a bit nerve wracking !
100% agree, id even over size the bolt if it had to be drilled all the way out and aluminum taps really easy with the right tapping fluids. I worked in a machine shop. JOB SHOP not car repair shop but we made motor parts and other stuff.
This is not a “mistake”. This is corrosion of a bolt on an old engine. Old things break. Ray, you did nothing wrong. Read the comments of some of your followers. Many of them have good ideas to work around this. I admire you standing by this and your willingness to replace the motor.
If it breaks when coming apart, then the fastener is the problem. If it breaks when you are putting it together, you are the problem. As my old mechanic buddy once said!
@@jameshill3165 actually he did a bumch wrong. He started out trying to take that bolt off with the cordless miluakee wratchet which on the first impact of the hammer exceeds the torque rating of those little waterpump fasteners.
God the overwhelming cringey fake positivity is so fking cringe.
@@MAGA_EXTREM1STBut the torque required to remove the bolt shouldn't exceed the bolts strength, regardless of what tool you use, unless there's corrosion, which was the case. If him using that ratchet was at fault it would've broke when he applied said ratchet.
@@MAGA_EXTREM1ST yep the torque on those things is 12 fur pounces
Ray, a couple of suggestions with respect to this situation. 1) buy left handed drill bits. These often work as backing these broken bolts out once you've removed enough of the meat of them. 2) Get a mini-inductor RF heater. Yes, Eric O. is the god of the cutting torch but few are as good at using one, and not setting the car on fire, as he is. Nonetheless heat is normally the answer. A question: Is your welder flux core or 75/25 gas. If you're cheap a simple CO2 tank will work for the purposes you're using your welder for but produces a lot more spatter than the 75/25. The problem with flux core is the flux contaminates the weld when used in the manner you were trying to. If you're laying down a bead it's fine as you can wire brush or chip the flux off but when you're on and off the trigger this becomes a problem as the flux inclusions weaken the weld as you apparently found out. Just trying to help.
I use both of these and with the induction heater I never have bolts seize
not sure if this engine is cast steel or aluminium. but in case of aluminium those induction heaters have another advantage. as you heat only the bolt (yeah, tricky depending on how litle sticks out, but doable) there is way less risk of melting or cracking anything with a torch. especially around those machined gasket surfaces.
I am going to find me some left handed drill bits!!! Thank you for the tips
*_Call a machine shop or a call local machinist shop and hire someone to do it in their off time. 2. If you already fk up or they can come to you go to them!!!! Jesus christ!!! Where are the smart people!!!_*
*_Not to knock all your welding tips down but that bolt wasn't going to come back out and he should at that point drilled out the hole, welded it back in and drill/tap the hole again...20 minute repair tops_*
Ps… to get the broken stud extractor out, remember though hardened it is still steel. The trick is to use an ordinary welder, not a MIG and tap an ordinary welding rod on the extractor. It will arc and stick the rod to the broken extractor. The extractor thread it’s self is not stuck so you can just turn the welding and unscrew, remembering it is a left hand thread. This technique also works well on broken head bolts etc. 😀
Ray, your integrity is such that you included this video as part of the process. Some might be inclined to just make this job "disappear" from TH-cam viewers and move on. You show the realities of wrenching on cars, warts and all. Sometimes, we learn solutions together.
You'll get this figured out, and then it's on to the next job.
Boy does this take me back. Machinist for 40 years. Sometimes they just don’t go your way. Before it gets this bad, grind a flat surface on your stud, use a center punch(spring loaded works well too). If you have to drill make sure it’s on center and straight. Ez outs usually won’t work if they’re engaged in two dissimilar metals. Someone else mentioned using the old pump to locate center. I once made an adapter to mount a mag drill on a Farmall tractor just to drill two broken studs. Aluminum/corrosion can complicate things in old engines. Good luck.
Ray use the welder on the easyout. It will do 2 things. Soften the metal making it drillable and also help relive the corrosion. Second drill the bolt out to the diameter of the inside of the threads. Then use a pick and chip away at the left threads. they will peel out. When you drill the bolt be sure to drill completely thru the bolt it gives you an out to drive any broken pieces out.
To drill hard steel use a cobolt drill bit they stand up better to hard steel. drill slow and use lube to keep the drill cool.
That is a good suggestion. Anneal the easyout material.
I feel the problem is drilling through the bolt without drifting off into the block. Any good trick to avoid this when all you can get at it with is a hand drill. Makes me wonder if I could design a drill guide to thread onto the stud or into the threaded hole if the bolt breaks deep... Heck if I can imagine it someone has already tried it, And if it isn't a standard tool then it doesn't work as I would want it to...
Still can't help but think on it some more.
that's risky because you might drill into the block by accident
@@blahorgaslisk7763They have guides like that, I have a set but rarely use them because after a while of extracting many broken bolts and studs you get pretty good with a drill.
It's good to see that Ray is willing to share his mistakes along with his wins. The bolt broke but not because Ray did anything wrong. Stuff just happens when working on any piece of machinery.
Absolutely!
Was it a mistrake?
Then it wouldn't be a mistake if it wasn't his fault.
@@kaarsgaarn It was mistrakeish,,,,which is totally different than a mistake. 😁
So sorry to see this happen. Sometimes life throws you a curve ball.
Ray some advice after the fact. Easy outs are useless unless the bolt is not really stuck. They are brittle like taps and will break. Get yourself some left hand drill bits. File the bolt shank flat on the face and carefully center punch. start drilling with the left hand drills, stopping with the tap drill size for the existing thread. You will most likely be able to unwind the remaining thread out from the stuck bolt. If not, you can use a helicoil to bring the thread back to the original size or use a larger bolt and retap the hole.
🎯
I was thinking to drill and re-tap, not to try an EZ Out. If really stuck, EZ Outs and left hand drill bits are somewhat "iffy".
@@thecuss6817 I agree EZ outs are useless but left hand drills can do some great things when removing stuck bolts. 45 years as a master machinist, I have removed my share of problem fasteners.
A small comment: before the easy-out, I may have considered drilling out the broken bolt further. You probably were not centered, but if you were, the closer you got to the thread hole size, maybe you could have collapsed the bolt with a chisel. You couldn't have been any worse off than you ended up.. Oh well, these things happen, Ray. It was not your fault. The bolt broke off, yes, but it was Subaru who designed a bolt into the water jacket that could corrode and seize in the block. You're a good mechanic, Ray.
I had this on a Subaru before, I bolted the old water pump back on as a guide, then wrapped a 5.5 mm drill in electrical tape until it was a close fit in the old pump. Then drilled the bolt center out which left me with just the threads in the hole. I then grabbed the end thread with needle nose pliers and pulled. It came out like a spring unwinding Job rescued. Unfortunately you now have an easy out stuck in the hole. I never use easy outs (never out) as for me they always end this way. If you can weld to the broken easy out and pull it back out you can still use the old pump method.
I feel for you Ray, that’s got to be the most frustrating thing. All mechanical jobs are a broken bolt away from being an expensive nightmare
Ray, another option is to acquire a couple carbide drill bits.. they will drill out the ez-out, in fact, they will maintain an edge while getting red hot. I used to use these to remove snapped off mold ejector pins (harder than the hubs of hell) as a tool maker. Also, you can try using a hard punch about the size of the bolt diameter and hitting directly on the face of the broken bolt which normally will pop out the ez-out stub. Have done this on broken exhaust manifold bolts in exactly the same spot you are in. Feel your pain!
Carbide Bits are your friend. Watched millwrights do this on hundreds of broken bolts in the industrial turbine world.
I once went through eight ez-outs (snap, snap, snap...) on one broken bolt on an excavator and ended up drilling out the bolt to chisel out the threads anyway.
This is just insane to replace an engine over one bolt.This is why I'm not a car mechanic but a pretty good house mechanic.Keep up the good work Ray
I did one on a 2007 Forester. Had the same issue on all the water pump bolts. Used a soldering gun to heat the bolt up and it eventually came out. Took liike 4 or 5 hours !
I needed to remove the hose connector fitting for the garden hose reel cart. It was corroded on so tight that when trying to loosen the nut connector, it completely snapped the water connection valve off at the assembly, I thought I’d have to buy an entire new hose reel cart. What I did was, buy a hose repair kit with a new connector adapter. It worked perfectly and no leaks. There’s always a way to fix what’s “broken” thank you for your honesty and showing us how we’re all human and things don’t go how we planned or hoped for, no matter how hard we try but I know you will find the way to repair the resolve the issue. Can’t wait for the updated video. Thank you Ray 🙏🏼
NOT YOUR FAULT. Steel in aluminum corrodes and it can be almost impossible to overcome. Bravo to you for posting this video, Ray. I did something like this once before on a component that was irreplaceable, then I broke a tap off. it was ugly. It made me wonder if I'd bought more expensive taps and easy outs this would not have happened. Problem is, the high carbon steel needed to cut metal ends up being more brittle. You end up blaming yourself because the drill bit walked or the angle was wrong. Most of us are one broken bolt away from being over our heads.
This is one of the reasons I don’t miss being a technician. You never know when you’re one bolt away from a catastrophe. Stay positive Ray. Put it behind you and move forward.
i always think like that midway in a engine rebuild or any other big job 😂 But at the end when al is good, im chill again.
For sure . Not fun when it goes sideways. 😞
That’s a cat’s a$$-trophe! Unfortunately a costly one. Hopefully the customer will at least pick up some of the extra cost, perhaps even all of it.
And it’s usually near the end of the process; e.g., all the oil pans bolts out, and the last one is stripped, same with water pump.
@@46bovine that’s the tricky part. It’s not the customers fault, but also not Rays. I think it’s likely a risk a business takes. I’d be curious to know what a business would normally do in this situation. (Or Ray for that matter) as far as what the customer pays. It’s already an old vehicle and likely not worth the fix already
Instead of trying to build up the stud, weld a washer onto it and then weld a nut on top of the washer. works great.
IF he had started like that, 75% chance a different outcome. : (
@@timewa851 Nope. Even if the stud is snapped flush with the block, welding a washer onto it and then a nut works very well. I do it all the time.
He can still do it now by welding something onto the easy out and then removing it. Why he doesn't try rather than just buying an engine I don't know.
Works like 97.5% of the time. Welding to the washer is better than trying to weld to a nut since the washer is thin and you have a much better chance of getting a solid weld to the stud rather than arcing to the nut which is what seems to have been happening to him.
Plus the extra heat getting into the block and stud from welding the washer helps release the stud from the block. I just did at least 8 of these on my Tundra frame that I swapped from a rotted one to a newer one.
If you want a video I'll send you one to show how effective it is.
Another comment. Your order of escalation could have been better. Start the drilling process first when you still had a 1/4" of the bolt standing out away from the block. 1) Use a right angle die grinder to flatten the remaining sticking out bolt. 2) Use a center punch to make an indentation as close to the center of the bolt as possible to prevent bit wonder. 3) Start with a 1/8" diameter drill, the one you used flexed way too much giving you an off center hole. 3) I recommend using a MAC, Norseman Vortex bit or Astro Pneumatic Turbo bit. All of these bits have drill point ends that look like a step drill, these tend to wonder less than conventional bits. If you drill the hole slightly oversized it doesn't matter as you need to drill an oversized hole for a Helicoil anyway so it's not that big of a deal. Once you have the Helicoil in you can either reinsert the bolt or make a stud from a bolt to complete the job.
As long as you are pulling the motor and it's a good one, take it to a machine shop and have them deal with it. Your efforts won't be wasted and it will be cheaper than replacement. If they will let you observe how it's done, your skill set will be improved.
Ray the most important part is the fact you were honest about it and exhausted all efforts to fix your mistake. That broken bolt was not your fault. You were doomed from the start.
Hi Ray, I would not give up on that engine unless you need it as a core. You could always fix it and keep it as a spare long block. I retired at the end of 2020 after spinning wrenches for 38 years. I was they guy everyone called when they ran into situations like this. I would install the old part and use a drill bushing, a NEW left-hand jobber-length Titanium Nitride bit, and lots of patience. Titanium Nitride bits are harder than Cobalt. The downside is you can't sharpen them because the TiN is only a coating, so for critical jobs like this, I consider them a single-use item. I used to buy my 1/8" jobber length TiN bits in bulk packages to save money.
Great advice, Ray if you can afford to fix the engine afte it's removed, i'm sure there's a market for the long block. I really appreciate your videos and your honesty - keep the faith every business has these times.
Worst case, try to find a reliable small machine shop who can try and safe the block without further butchering the stuff. Maybe some other youtuber would be willing to do it. If not for this car, at leasthe could salvage and sell the engine and cut his losses.
with that broken eazy out and only hand tools even the old pump as a drill bushing might not do you any good here. the housing might be too soft, but with a good hard drill it might even work as it prevents the drill from wandering around. geting that thing out definitely is quite a task. and you cannot put unlimited amounts of heat in this engine block, as it might warp the machined surface. I am wondering, is this enginge cast steel or aluminium? if the second there might be even a risk melting some aluminium before the broken bolt gets hot enough.
I guess rather precise machining is all that can be done here.
JAMSI could get it out
had the same thing happen. used a diamond bit with my dermal tool to get the e z out -out about 2 hr then put the old pump back on with 2 bolts tight . then use a drill bit that will just go in the hole to drill out the broke bolt. take pump back off and drill hole out to the right size for a HeliCoil . kit come's with the right size drill bit and tap for the coil. install coil and it is much better then new. this will bring it back to the right size bolt.
When it broke off near flush, I'd have reached for my small stash of short thin bushings, used them to get a useful drill bit centered in the bore in the waterpump, and then I'd have used the water pump as a jig to drill out the broken bolt. Once that was out, I'd have helicoiled the hole. BTW, using any easy-out smaller than 6mm in tip diameter is a guarantee of a failed repair in my experience. I pretty much don't even try to use them at all, I gave up on them a good 40 years ago. I'll make a jig to center the drill before I'll trust an easy-out to not break. They're really that useless when you've got a soft steel bolt seized in an aluminum hole.
Hey Ray, this is just another challenge! There are a number of options available short of replacing the engine/block assembly as indicated by the comments of your channels followers in this video…I’ve used a number of those tips and tricks myself with great success! Don’t waste time on stress, develop a plan of attack and get back at it. Good luck, Ray 👍
Ray, have you considered using a helicoil? You would drill the hole to the appropriate size, insert the helicoil and you would be good to go, The main thing is that you would need to precisely drill the hole in the block so you might have to pull the engine to do it right.
Hey Ray. Get a piece of short copper pipe with the inside diameter just larger than the bolt size, and build up your weld through the inside of the copper pipe. It's always worked for me. Remove the pipe and then weld your nut onto that. Take care.
Speaking from experience in having ez outs break on me I know a few tricks to get them out. 1) use an auto center punch repeatedly at an angle to loosen it. 2) same thing with a regular small chisel or punch and hammer. 3) use a pencil grinder or Dremel and show that ez out whos boss. I normally use a McMaster Carr double cut ball. I cannot remember the part number but get a few different sizes just in case
Ez-outs; neither "ez" or "out" I have ever found and must surely be made by the Snap-Off Tool Company.
@@572Btriode snap-on doesn't even make their own ezouts. I believe Irwin Hanson makes them and snap-on puts their name on them. At least that's what my snap-on guy told me when I had to wait over a year to get some of mine replaced under warranty.
@@tomhart6370 Umm, I think you need to read again what I wrote. . . . . . . . . .
🙂
@@572Btriode Oh I read it. I just use the term snap-on and snap-off interchangeably since their tools brake so often.
@@tomhart6370 🙂
Im so surprised that no one had suggested a set of Left Hand Drills, which all you do is drill by repeatedly increasing diameters until nearly the diameter of the hole is reached. Normally, before you get to the largest drill that will go into the hole is reached, the old bolt thread comes sliding out on your drill. It does tak a little patience, as you have to drill very carefully. But L/H or anti-clockwise drills have gotten me out of many a scrape. Hope that will help you for the future, as "easy outs", I have learned, are very rarely easy outs 😢
Oh, and by the way, i learned that 20 years ago from an old Audi mechanic who was fixing my water pump on an old Saab. All he did was grind it flat, centre punched it, and drilled very gently 3 sizes, and out it came. Magic 🎉
Hey Ray, I am a retired Mek a nek, of over 40 years. There was nothing that you could do, Doomed from the start (You felt it) Cross metal corrosion. I didn't read all the comments, But there is some good advice. I have done more than my share of these. YOU CAN DO IT! The longest one that I have done took almost 16 hours. 1st "PB Blaster" about every 10 minutes. Remove Radiator, Grille and any other obstacles. Try a small, strong pair of needle nose to remove Extractor (Righty/Loosey). If that doesn't work then a good tap with a Center Punch May shatter it. Next go buy 2 sets of LH or reverse drill bits. sometimes with these it pulls the broken piece out as you drill. if not then a Heli coil is the last resort. I liked the comment of using the old water pump as a guide, but it looks like you are pretty centered. Most important is Patience. Get frustrated, step back and take a breath. OHMS WATTAGE, OHMS WATTAGE. You Got This!
Ray...I've done way more of these Subie timing belts and head gaskets than I'd like to admit to...when you line up the engine for a timing belt and that crank is on the mark the pistons aren't actually anywhere near the heads. Seems like some engineer at Subaru designed the timing marks so that no cylinder is at top dead center when all the marks are lined up...but the closest any piston to a head is literally half way up the bore. If a cam should slip during a timing belt job....just line the cam's timing marks back up and try again...zero chance of damage.
That’s interesting thx
@@RainmanRaysRepairs can confirm this is correct. While not necessary, google company23, they sell some good tools for Subaru (and some others)
also the damage is from the force of the impact, when doing by hand if you feel it hit thats an oops and back up, no harm done. but if it's out of time and runs like that it effectively punches itself thus the critical damage
One thing you may want to invest in for future use is a set of reverse drill bits so that if it comes to drilling out a bolt like that, it may end up walking itself out as you drill, thus saving you this kind of headache.
Ray you may have a couple of options. Mark the block to maintain the stud centre location, drill out the whole mess, tap the new hole. From here you have two options, drill out the waterpump to fit an oversized stud or Bolt , or you can use two bolts. one to fit the new thread then a smaller bolt (with the head removed) welded to the oversized one to fit the existing waterpump and turn the mess into a stud.
Another option you have is to build up the remains of the bolt as you were doing, then weld some thread (bolt with head removed) onto what you have built up to turn the whole lot into a stud. I do not know if you will have the physical room to refit a waterpump, but it may give you some more options.
Good luck with it, Nah you don't need luck, you are bloody good at what you do.
Cheers from Australia
I agree with drill and tap. Helicoils or the like would work here as well.
That was on the cards up to the eazyout breaking. Surely the eazyout is such a high carbon steel tool most drill bits wouldn't touch it.
If it was me I would probably try to drill it out and helicoil it. It's a waterpump, I think it would probably be able to take the clamping force for the gasket.
I agree with Chris Ts "try" methods. The job can't get any worse Ray.
There's no winning with corrosion at the end of the threads. It was doomed before "Pop'n Thee Hood".
Better yet, use an EDM machine to erode the remains of the stud & EZout.
Here is something I have done in the past. I took a smaller bolt and cut it and made a stud and nut to seal the water pump. Just added a gob of siilicone and tightened just enough to seal it.(Worked) 5 yrs and still holding 100% Good Luck
The only thing worse than seeing an honest mechanic fail on this bolt is seeing how much it hurts you for being an honest mechanic. Kudos ray for keeping integrity and doing the right thing even when its the hardest thing to do. Takes guts and show you really care.
A suggestion to try next time Ray,
try unscrewing the brass nozzle from over the tip of your welder when next welding a nut over a stud. You are welding without shielding gas (ie. flux core welding) so that nozzle serves no purpose when doing what you are doing. You will get a better view and might build stronger welds because you will be able to see whether the weld wire is contacting the point between the nut edge and stud rather than just welding a pool from the middle of the stud. Humour me and try it as an experiment.
I have had good luck welding a larger flat washer to the stud first then weld the nut to the washer. You can get more surface weld that way and not likely to break off. Using water or freeze to cool it and shock it somewhat will help also.
My go to method when you have a broken stud that is sticking out is to use a pair of vice grips that you clamp on as hard as you can. I dont think it has ever failed me.
Ray, had to watch this twice, to make sure I saw what I did see. I felt your pain and suffering. Sometimes you get your xss handed to you by something you’ve done before. Unfortunately it happens to all of us and the simplest of things become a real nightmare. Ignore comments from those that say they could have done better, as they weren’t there. It could have been a poorly manufactured bolt that had multiple hairline fractures. You will never know. Thank goodness that “I Do Cars” could help you out of your situation, by selling you another engine. The really sad/bad part is the amount of time and $ you have, and will continue to loose on that repair job. This is another reason that most shops won’t install customer parts. The markup on parts helps you to be able to cover unusual situations like this.
Shake off the bad day and come back stronger tomorrow. We are all cheering you on, especially your endeavor to run a good honest repair shop.
Feel so sorry for you, Ray. Alot of us have all been in that type of situation one time or another. Your patience is admirable, and commendable!!
As an ex-mechanic I totally feel for you. I have watched the work that you do and I am so impressed. You take on work that I would have run a mile from in my working days. You did nothing wrong with this, it was a mine waiting to be stepped on and you were just unlucky.
Hang in there Ray. You do such an amazing job working on cars for a living while videoing everything… I have had this happen to me at my place of work, I know the frustrations it causes. Amazing work Ray!!!
I’ve been there several times in my 30+ yrs as a dairy processing plant mechanic. I see others suggested using the old pump as a guide. Of course best done BEFORE breaking off the tap, however, there IS a tool that removes broken taps. Basically hard wires that slide into the tap grooves, and you back out the tap by turning the tool. I’ve used it and it works about half the time. So using the pump as a guide, use a drill that fits snugly in the hole to get a good centered dimple in the broken bolt, then you can pull the pump and drill out the bolt to the proper size to tap. Hang in there brother, thanks for being real!
Had this happen to me back in 2020 while replacing a water pump on a '65 Buick Wildcat with a 401 cu in engine. There were like a dozen 1/4 inch fine threaded bolts and the threads were almost non existent. Spent hours with easy outs, drilling, etc. Finally ended up using a carbon rod out of the center of a size D flashlight battery and running it through a pencil sharpener to give it a nice point then connected it to the positive battery end and placed the tip against the broken ez out until it turned cherry red and lost its temper. Then drilled out the ez out, bolt and all and used a 5/16 to 1/4 inch threaded insert. Ended up having to repeat the process a total of 5 times to save the timing cover. Took me almost three days and had to walk away for about an hour between each insert. Mainly to get away from the customer who did his best to camp out for the entire process. Finally ended up convincing his wife to haul him out of the shop. It worked out perfectly, and that Buick was an awesome ride. 34,225 original miles, even the interior was all original and looked like no one had ever sat in it.
Love your videos sir. Having been a professional wrench twister for over 55 years, It is refreshing to see an expert mechanic working in actual realistic situations. Rusty bolts and oil leaks that don't appear to have an actual source. jobs with 8 hour book times that you can do in 1 or 2 hours and others that book out like 8 units (48 minutes) that take over an hour just to get to the part. I'm 72 and still wrenching, and it's a joy to watch a tech that approaches each job with common sense and experience not just following some flow chart and then firing the parts cannon. I spent most of my life following those parts cannon guys and actually repairing the problem, usually for less than ten cents on the dollar of those insane estimates.
Please keep up the posting. It's the best therapy for an old guy who's lost his faith in the aftermarket repair industry. God bless ya Ray,
This is a really good video of what can go wrong AND the consequences when something does go wrong. As others have stated earlier "we have all been there." Thanks for including the hard stuff.
Love ya, Ray. Getting caught up in the job happens to everyone. My best advice is to STOP. A replacement bolt takes time to get, so your schedule is hit already. Once you've got a good look at your problem back off, calm down and then take time listing all of your options for dealing with it, what will help and what will hurt. If you couldn't get it out the engine would have to be pulled and stripped then both actions have to be weighed for improving your chances for success. May open more options as well.
Ray, don't let this one get the best of you, you did everything you could and did it correctly! I KNOW you can get the rest of it out, you just need some time away from it to regain your patience and clear perspective. YOU GOT THIS BUDDY! You're one of the best mechanics I've ever seen! I HAVE FAITH IN YOU MAN!
I keep a set of left-hand twist drills on hand for just this reason. Start out small and step up in size. At some point you will have removed enough material that the shell of the bolt will spin out as you drill. I’ve had much better results than using a tap-out.
This damaged engine could also be saved after taken out by taking it to a machine shop and having the tap-out burnt out and an insert installed. We use these all the time to burn out broken taps and it works a treat.
I was a mechanic at a major beef plant for 7 years. Its this type of stresses that made me go back to being a butcher! Imagine a saw was broke, and bosses all around me yelling to hurry the hell up because the production line is down! Snapped off bolts, snapped off easy outs and countless number of drill bits . Here i am cutting meat again! I feel your pain Ray!😮
This video has comforted me somewhat. To know that an expert like Ray can be defeated by a corroded bolt makes my many defeats with corroded bolts a bit more bearable.....And also makes my horror and terror when I find yet another stuck bolt a bit less soul destroying.
I have to say - big reason I come back time after time is your honesty. We all have been there - mine was rebooting domain server / print server combo on a weekend, lost raid card - had to work all weekend and cancel plans - to get us back into business. I know not even close - just know even your fans/friends are behind you. Heck so many have your back in their thoughts and going to check out your merch as a way to help even a little. Bless you.
What you need is a guide to be able to drill straight into the broken easyout/bolt. You might try bolting the old water pump back on using it as a guide to drill the bolt out. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but if you're looking at swapping an engine it's worth a try.
Busted screws/bolts/nuts happen all the time. Part of life.
I am a retired gunsmith, so I don't know if my technique for removing stuck (either too tight or corrosion) screws would work on stuck automotive bolts. But here goes.
I would first pour some Kroil ( I have no association with them) on the head of the screw or threads if accessible. Gun was oriented so the screw shaft was vertical in orientation. Then I would give a sharp smack with a hammer on a brass punch positioned on the head of the screw. More Kroil, another smack, more Kroil. Then go home. In the morning the screws normally came out easily. Important point here is to let the lubricant (Kroil) sit for several hours before applying torque.
I know this pain very well. Broken bolts in an aluminium block/Cylinder head can and are hard to get out. In my opinion Ray, too much torque was used and rushing the removal is not a good combination. I would have used an old-school manual rig spanner so I could 'FEEL" the bolt and work it out slowly so as not to break it off. I am a retired motor mechanic and have come across this hundreds of times. Lots of WORDS are yelled out and walkaways and timeouts to rethink what I had done wrong and how to fix it without destroying what I was supposed to repair.
You did the right thing and let us see a mistake made warts and all.
I myself have a broken exhaust stud on a very rare, very vintage Skyline. The engine is a 3L straight 6 OHC and stud number 12 at the back of the head had broken off from thermal cycling and age and was a 1990s Nissan factory recall to replace these 12 studs. The factory exhaust manifold warped causing the studs to snap off level with the head surface. The only fix was to install after-market headers 6 into 2 then 2 into 1 3-inch collector to the Catalytic converter. It's been 15 years and the broken stud has not been repaired because it is not leaking and no other studs have broken. "Why fix something that is not causing trouble?"
The 34-year-old engine has never been touched other than 1 water pump and a timing belt. The engine only has 122k miles since it was built and I do not want to disturb a perfectly running engine to fix 1 broken stud. To repair this stud would mean removing the cylinder head as there is no room to work on it as there is a 1.5-inch clearance between the back engine and the firewall, So it's being left as is. Love your channel Rayman.
Hi ray, the solution that no one has suggested and I would find to be the simplest thing to do is to drill out the mess, Tap the hole for a helicoil to be inserted that is then the size of the original bolt, acquire a replacement bolt or two and no one would be the wiser and it wouldn't be expensive as replacing the whole engine.
Ray is such a nice person and honest. Wish his business was near me. I had a Honda dealer snap off two spark plugs in the head of my CNG civic. They had the exact procedure done that you spoke of. But they made me pay for it.
@@PumaPete How is that your fault? Customers don't pay for mechanics errors. That's on them. Go talk to the owner of the dealership.
@@Chairman750 that was my question too. We went back and forth over it. They didn’t want to budge and I needed my commuter car to get to my job. I spent thousands there because I don’t know how to work on a natural gas car. But I’m gonna learn. They lost a customer over $300.
@@PumaPete Yep. I would read up on everything and watch as many youtube vids and do my own work. Good luck. Take care. Ken
@AstroBoy AU You can't drill out a snapped Easy-Out. They are hardened steel, normal drill bits won't even scratch them. Did you miss the part in the video where Ray tells us about that? The snapped bolt is not the immediate problem now.
Ray, you might want to call around and see if a local machinist could take a crack at it. I've seen a machinist disolve a bolt with salted water electrolysis. Broken taps can also be removed the same way.
Physics Ray, the heat expands the bolt making it tighter in the block. After welding use a "Freeze spray" to chill the bolt to shrink it.
Quenching.
And with this physics degree you have what does cold do to corrosion…and if he’s working with aluminum head would cold do anything? Or do you just try to be the smartest one in the room
@@adamdurham7643 Enough posturing. Heat works. They even make tools for heating bolts in engine blocks… aluminum or not. I was also wondering why Ray didn’t try a torch before breaking it.
@@IFIXCASTLES …especially when quenched with penetrating lubricant. It can actually pull the lube through the threads.
@@emmettturner9452 cool
Wax and a blow torch. Heat the broken stud, then throw wax on it. Then vise grip/plyers to unscrew it out. The wax will melt and seep into the threads and break the corrosion off. If it starts to seize repeat the process. I’ve done this on every broken stud I’ve encountered and works like a champ!
My best friend has been an automotive machinist for 30+ years. He is a wizard at removing broken bolts. BTW if you think broken bolts in a car are a nightmare to get out, try ones in stereos. Tiny ones you can't weld to. Loved it when the cheap soft steel screws corroded to the brass inserts. Don't you have anyone in your area with a metal disintegrator?
His method was level bolt off, center punch , then progressively larger drill buts with mass lube until he could either get a remover in or go in with a pick and remove the threads with it.
I truly feel your pain.
Nothing but respect for you Ray. My fingers were crossed and I even caught myself holding my breath hoping this would work out. Still, you knew when to say enough was enough. Like I said, nothing but respect for you.
Hi Ray,
Just thinking,
I'm a locksmith, and when drilling safes, locksmiths use "BUTTER BITS" from PRO-LOK. These bits can drill through a ball bearing. Using the water pump guide idea, this should drill through the easy-out. And, you can get hardened drill bushings there too.
Don't beat yourself up over this, I'm 72 and this has happened to me a lot. You'll come out fine!
Your friend Dave.🥸
That might work for you. I checked with this company and they only sell to locksmiths.
You are an excellent businessman, buying another engine even though you were not responsible for the bolt breaking off. Three cheers for Eric for finding another engine. I think you and Eric make great, informative videos.
Hi Ray, big hello from the UK. I feel your pain. I've given up with easy outs.. I've broke far too many, so now I drill out the stud including the threads and use helicoils....keep up the videos and don't get downhearted my friend! Take care.
Go for the helicoils. Don't rush, don't panic.
Makes me jealous AF to see how clean these Florida vehicles are. I did a clutch on my mates 05 reg 2.2 Mondeo the other month. I ended up breaking half a dozen bolts in the process every one of which I either had to drill and tap or weld a new captive nut on and several were a fight to the death even with heat and air tools. I was so mad. I could not be a professional mechanic, there would be to much swearing a tool throwing!
That’s the way to do it 👊🏻
As someone who deals with rusted junk all the time I feel your pain. For me I would grab an old water pump, toss it on a drill press or better a mill, and drill the mounting hole out to accept a hardened bushing that is a size smaller internally than the broken bolt. Then bolt the pump on. Lube the crap out of the bushing. Then use a carbide end mill that slips into the bushing to cut the bolt and easy out out of the hole. Cut a second or two, blow the chips out and repeat until the hole is open. Now go in and clear out what is left of the bolt threads with a drill and install a time-sert. Have done this a few times on blocks and heads where the corrosion or the ham fisted moron cross threaded bolts in aluminum. Basically the same process you use to drill out manifold bolts, just using the water pump as the guide (and to keep the swarf out of the engine)
I note that ‘South Main Auto” uses Magnetic Induction Heater to get the stud red hot before extraction - unfortunately too late. He was using such a tool to remove manifold studs.
If possible you could have drilled out to a larger diameter, tapped the hole and then used a larger diameter bolt or a thread screw sleeve.
Maybe a skilled welder could plug the hole so that you could drill tap and start again.
I feel for you Ray, been there done that also in my mechanics days. BUT I will say this, give up on it for a day or two then come back have another go. I find this often helps, clears the mind and sometimes brings a fresh outlook. This should be savable without a replacement block, which MAY have other inherent problems...good luck !!!
This sort of thing happens all the time here in the UK, after a while you get used to drilling out broken bolts/studs and re-tapping threads, it just becomes normal in the end.
Don't give up on it because I think you can do it. You're a great mechanic.
After broken stud removed (EDM), use helicoil or other thread repair, then get back to work. Alternatively, drill up to next size, thread, back to work. The accessory casting hole can be drilled up to new screw clearance diameter. Apply antiseize to those screws.
Ray I have removed 100s of this type of bolts and the first step is to stop and think before making it worst and in my experience if heat hasnt made a difference then dont even consider an easy out
To remove this I would have used the water pump housing as a drill guide to centre drill the end of the bolt then moving in small increments starting with 3mm then 3.5mm then 4mm until you get to the inner diameter of thread 5mm for a 6mm bolt then you have a chance of getting the remaining thead out if this can be done then run a tap down to clean it up or a drill to set up a thread insert
Takes time but nearly always works
We feel your pain Ray! We know your going to make it right, and that's what sets you apart from the rest! 😁
Ray this is why people love ya and trust you! I don't know many people that would have not shown this to the world. This will pay off in spades for you down the line.
Ray - you displayed lots of courage to post this video. You didn’t have to and no one would have known the difference. Good on ya’, mate. Good luck with the rest of the job and the customer.
Courage because the bolt snapped? Your bar is set really low.
@@defresurrection courage that he posted what happened. do you tell everyone your failures or just your wins? most of us shy away from telling the world when we have failures.
With a reputation and brand to protect, honesty is the only policy. I learned at a young age that a lie creates more problems than it solves.
so +Rainman Ray's Repairs had the same issue, but with a stud for the mainifold on a saab 9-5. broke off before entered the shop 1 of the studs. basically fix was. not weld etc. what we did was. Drill through it lose the tension of the stud, with that we used a reverse threader/screw extractor. basically that drill through broke it lose and it was free to move again. so next time you encounter the issue drill through it with a small drill. then go up in size and then use a reverse threader/screw extractor. and it should come out as a charm.
In my previous life as a motorcycle mechanic, I feel your pain. Drilling into steel bolts stuck in alloy can go either way, the bad times can be demoralising and it takes a big person to hand over to someone better equiped (tool and skill). That block is not scrap, the bolt can be drilled out in a jig with guided bit. Worse case drilled oversize and a plug inserted, best case would be a helicoil.
You seriously need to purchase a group of left turning (reverse) drill bits. 97% of the time they will back the stuck unit out!
And if they don't you can often collapse the remaining stud wall, a win either way.
Absolutely, and use the old water pump as a drilling guild.
Done this type of job many time. With the correct tools, a job is easier to a successful end result.
And drill it out the biggest you can before hitting the threads, that will losen it up everytime.
I would have ground the top of the stud flat to make a better starting point for drilling.
@@ericpaul4575 Exactly RIGHT!!!!!!!!
How many "Mechanics" have done this, and just patched it up and sent it on?
Probably more than anyone would want to know.
But Ray has shown just how a real mechanic would handle a situation like this.
If I were the owner of the car, and Ray reached out to me about this, I'd tell him, to just make sure the replacement unit is up to spec, and that I'd pay for whatever the replacement block needed to make it so.
The reason I say this, is because Ray was going to have to do these things to the old block, because it was leaking all over the place, so it wouldn't be right, to make him pay for the things, that he was going to have to do anyway.
Also, make sure, that the replacement has had the head gaskets replaced, because that was a really bad flaw in those engines.
If you don't I guarantee, you'll be doing it, once you get the new engine done, then find it has a bad head gasket leak, which might've been why the engine was salvaged in the first place.
Other than that, the H-4 is a pretty bullet proof engine.
If I was the owner of this car, liked it enough and could afford it, I'd tell Ray don't worry about getting a used engine and resealing it, get a quality rebuilt instead, and of course I'd pay for it.
Slap the water pump on with some JB Weld in place of the gasket. Problem solved.😀
@@JeffDeWitt Sounds like another awesome alternative!
A salvaged engine block, is going to cause even more headaches down the road.
From the looks of the car, someone loves that car, and I'd say would be willing to spend the extra money, on a certified rebuilt in its place.
This, to me anyway, is a happy accident, and one that will make this car a pleasure to drive again.
@@skipper2285 That's what many would do, LOL!
seems like you and your wife are working very hard thank you so much for the videos I can not wait each day until i see one, but today i feel very sorry for you but in life things happen i have been there and know what it is like ,thanks for this video
I feel the pain with this one. Disaster!
2 cents incoming! Thinking about it.. it could be salvaged, i reckon. Getting tool steel red hot basically softens it, i.e. the extractor that broke could be softened by heating with a torch or welder(while protecting the surroundings) and may allow for the next step. Copy the bolt pattern and transfer it to some steel plate. Drill the pattern (at minimum bit size for our troublesome hole) and bolt the plate back onto the pump interface. This will act as a guide for the drill. Drill out the old bolt and its threads with an end mill or similar stainless steel cutting bit (brand new and super sharp). You can increase the drill size a couple of times till your almost to the threads alternativley just drill it out completely and replace the threads with a locking insert to match the broken bolt.
upstairs202 mentiones something similar with using an old pump. A jig is the same principle but may allow you to increase the drill size slowly by increasing the pilot hole size on the jig.
Either way its a ballache!
Keep up the good work!
Hey Ray I agree with Duncan drilling out is the only way to go with something like that using the old water pump as a template is really smart. I have had this problem in the past and had pretty good success good luck
Ouch Mr Ray. Hate to see that.
Maybe once block is taken out the stud can be milled out with a small carbide endmill?
We do that at work alot. It's tedious but usually we can get broken bolts and taps out.
Good luck 👍🏼👍🏼
Maybe the block will go back to I Do Cars for that very thing. Probably could drill put the hole if you could mount the block on a drill press so the drill or mill doesn’t wander. Impossible to do by hand.
@@StrongDreamsWaitHere
Yes sir that's how we do it. Did not mean completely by hand
Man I wanted to see you get it out, was hoping you would anyway. I’m a machinist by trade. Invest in some left handed drill bits. Sometimes just drilling with that bit will just back it out. Key word “sometimes “. Enjoy all your content and your positive attitude.
Ray, take heart bud. It takes a real man to admit to mistakes and you're a GIANT among real men. I only hope the customer realizes what a great technician and shop owner you are because another person might have worked the situation around to making it the customer's problem. Also talk with the customer and show him this video, he may be willing to put some extra money in the pot for you.
What's with you people and MISTAKES. The bolt broke, blame the bolt, not Ray.
Talk to the customer?😂 So because it didn't make the video it didn't happen. Ray, ignore these people.
Just drill out the bolt and Clean the threads you can drill out the broken bolt without hitting the threads if your careful and then just clean the threads with a thread chaser and good to go @Rainman Ray's Repairs
I always took the whole engine out for better control. It’s a lot more work, but you have much better control over removal of a critical seized stud like this.
Sometimes the simplest jobs end up being the biggest PITAS ever! I know how you feel, Ray. Many times I have spent a lot of time on a simple job that has given me a crap load of grief and jobs that you think are going to be a nightmare end up being a piece of cake. On a side note, that engine looks unnecessarily super over complicated. The thing I liked about the LS in my old Silverado was the simplicity and mostly easy access to service it. Have a great weekend my friend👍
More people need to be like Ray and admit mistakes accept defeat and keep moving forward.
Agreed, it would be easy to not post repairs that went wrong. Strong showing of Ray's character to post them.
Honestly sir, it’s not the technician that isn’t willing to accept defeat, the shop owner normally pushes the tech to carry forward, even when we are in a position to cut our losses, spoken as a 25 year retired certified mechanic
It's not a mistake, not on Ray's part anyways. Probably the bird brain that installed that bolt on the assembly line cross threaded it and shipped it anyways. What was done was done before it even got to Ray.
Not Sure that was a "Mistake" Nothing could have Stopped that bolt from Breaking , That is corrosion , Steel and Aluminum seized together
What mistake? This happens. No bird brain either. Just normal stuff.
Welding onto the easy out will soften it, being a carbon steel, and then you should be able drill the hole out with a carbide drill bit.
Going to have to go slow, and maybe repeat a few times with heat to get the easy out softened as you go along.
Maybe going to have to pull the motor to work on the block, but it does not need to be replaced because of this.
Damage to the aluminum can be repaired with welding and machining if that happens, also a good outcome.
Excellent that you guys are helping each other in the struggle 🙏 Thank you all for your integrity 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
i was refreshing a old 302 block for my ranger and had the same stuff go sideways. two intake manifold bolts, and a water pump bolt. i started with drilling, but made sure to punch a centerpoint for the drill. took it way out to the edge and ran a tap to clean the threads. last one the tap snapped. pick and small needle nose and finally backed it out. what a pita. goodluck!
good day to you Ray always love watching you fix cars but the most important thing is to have yourself a great day Ray
Just love your name Gary
Put old pump back and use it as a drill guide silly.
The stuck bolt seems to have been a perfect use for an induction heater.
Just posted the same before reading yours!
not really. heating the bolt makes it expand.its good for stuck nuts. if anything then should have tried with freeze spray inside the drilled hole but i think its a lost cause. that freeze spray is usually only used when making electric circuits and not something a mechanic uses. maybe he can be lucky to crush that extractor tip in the hole when he get engine out and have enough room to apply a little violence . the odds are slim but worth a try. works on broken taps.
@@MrLarsgren
The heat/cool cycles, especially to red hot, will often break up corrosion.
Maybe hire a spark eroder to clear the hole. If the bolt was corroded, is the hole a through hole? Can it be drilled over size and a heli coil fitted?
…or even just a torch. Surprised Ray didn’t try a blow torch first.
As I said before south main auto has a very specific procedure for removing these bolts, its starts with grinding the bolt end to give a fresh steel surface for welding, then welding a nut, then third is heating the bolt and nut to cherry red and letting cool before attempting to remove. Eric says he can hear the crud on the bolt cooking in the block as you heat it, he is getting 90% effective removal without headaches.
With the bolt being so far out I would've just hit it with a hammer a few times. Then notch the bolt and use a big flathead screwdriver to extract it. Even if the threads messed up, they're so far at the beginning of the hole you could easily retap the threads. This might not work but it's always worth a try.
Regardless if that doesn't work, a machine shop can extract it and fix the threads for you.
I wish I could find a trust worthy mechanic as you Ray.. Love the channel!