Valve Index VR Headset In-Depth Impressions!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- The Valve Index is here! We spend a week testing the Valve Index virtual reality headset and share our extended hands-on impressions for the wider field of view, higher resolution, increased framerate, and speaker audio quality. Plus, how games so far are accommodating the new "knuckles" style Index controllers. Let us know what you'd like to see tested below!
Shot by Gunther Kirsch and edited by Norman Chan
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Tested is:
Adam Savage / donttrythis
Norman Chan / nchan
Simone Giertz / simonegiertz
Joey Fameli www.joeyfameli.com
Gunther Kirsch guntherkirsch.com
Ryan Kiser / ryan.kiser
Kishore Hari / sciencequiche
Sean Charlesworth / cworthdynamics
Jeremy Williams / jerware
Kayte Sabicer / kaytesabicer
Bill Doran / chinbeard
Ariel Waldman / arielwaldman
Darrell Maloney / thebrokennerd83
Kristen Lomasney / krystynlo
Intro bumper by Abe Dieckman
Set design by Danica Johnson / saysdanica
Set build by Asa Hillis www.asahillis.com
Thanks for watching!
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"On my personal head" is one of the best combinations of words ever spoken by a human being.
Well you could own A personal head but not be your own.... like in a closet... would be weird though.
Head is always personal
@@ExplodingPiggy Not if you're giving someone head. Then it's a joint venture.
I knew we wouldn't see HL3 until Valve got their own VR tech in order. Valve was waiting until HL3 could be genre-defining in the same way as HL1 and HL2 before it. Mark my words...
That's going to be a mindblowing experience.
Finally Gordon can communicate with NPCs, but only if the player knows ASL.
Edit: actually having a sign language to speech/text program via gesture recognition would potentially be really cool if it can be developed using this tech, which may not be ready for it.
Would be useful for places like Asia where creating a keyboard that can accommodate all of the characters in a given language has been an engineering nightmare and requires a whole bunch of work arounds.
They have some game that you can use a crowbar that looks exactly like the one from half life. I totally agree and have said the same thing, hl3 will be VR and it will bring VR into the mainstream as a key feature for many games
@@steviesavagery it's kinda hard to be mainstream with how expensive all that equipment still is.
Rd owg i’m not talking “soon”, this is setting up framesworks and testbeds for the future
My takeaway: This headset is pretty nice, BUT THESE CONTROLLERS!
Exactly
Yeah, I need those. I think that was the best part of the video.
Im regretting canceling my pre order now lol
That's what I am blowing my money on. Those controllers I saw on Node or Corridor Crew and I just instantly fell in love with how much more freedom you get with those controllers.
Personally I'm gonna stick with the cv1 until the new valve in a couple years
Watching a 90Hz vs 144Hz demonstration on my 60Hz monitor.
Hmmm
On a 30hz video :P
@@facug21 30 fps, not hz
@@faerie_soup You can say Hz instead of fps.. Hz just means the frequency of something happening each second..
This video is 30fps so you're not getting the full benefit from your 60hz monitor anyway :P
@@Einar979 No because "HZ" is the refresh rate on the MONITOR. In which he said 60hz. The video runs at 30fps. There is a difference.
damn it!
Should I buy *this* or the *999$ pro stand* from apple?!
Ez, stand
Stando tsukai
Lol
to be fair if anyone is complaining about the stand they probably aren't in the market (can't afford) the monitor either
The stand VRs a gimmick duh.
Norm, I remember watching your original oculus DK1 review when it came out and being so excited. I feel like this is the product I've been waiting for since that day. Thanks!
No, Thanks Valve!
@Meepbob...Pimax 8KX is the product I've been waiting for. It is VR 2.0. This Index is more like VR 1.4.
18:08 Valve has said that the additional power is required for the speakers.
Besides the speakers, the integrated USB hub (e.g. for powering the front-facing USB device) also needs additional power.
Am I the only one that prefers headphones? I don't want people hearing me play cringey songs on beatsabers around me thanks.
@@lProN00bl I hated having to use earbuds/headphones on the vive. earbuds because i have small ears and they tend to feel uncomfortable really quickly, and headphones because it adds an extra clunky feeling.
@@lProN00bl Devs who have the headsets already say that if you are more than a few feet from the headset then you can't hear anything. Apparently they are very directional speakers.
@@LordVis Thanks for this I feel a lot better about it now. I'm an august boi so haven't committed yet.
Definitely excited for higher refresh rate VR. Looks like the market is diverging into quick and easy access lower frame rate devices and very high end tethered experiences. 2019 is set to be a great year for VR.
@@Somtric Just because you can't see a difference, doesn't mean that the rest of us can't. It's easy for me to see the difference between 60 and 100+. I even have a couple examples that prove it. Long story short, after I got my 144Hz monitor I noticed two of my games seemed like they were were not running at full 144. After looking both of them up, they were indeed both hard-capped at 60fps.
@@Somtric Your eye balls are broken. They just told you in this review right here right now that they did.
@@Somtric Shut up troll, nothing you say has any value.
I would much rather pay $1000 for this than a new iPhone
GrumblyAirMonk hell yeah, screw iPhone
and a pc pretty much does all of these
(it doesn't track heart rate)
@@Stone815 you need a pc to use the valve index, i think?
Michael Maxime fist, it’s just not a “monitor and controller” there’s the software and technology that allows you to be more immerse. Second: all those things you mentioned can be done on a $200 phone too. Also it’s all about the experience
Firstly, OP says he'd rather buy an Index than the $1k iphone, not that it is better. Secondly, he did not say he does not own a phone. Thus, he might have a cheaper phone which will probably do most of the things you listed.
He is just saying that he personally feels more like buying an index than an ipohone at the same price, and you're reading way more into it.
“It was like a screen door, it was triangular. Whereas this is like a grid.”
Since when are screen doors triangular?!
I think he said rectangular
@@VioletteLundsten he said triangular
He was referring to when you look through a screen door, you can see the mesh edges.
͏͏͏͏FineNerds but those aren’t triangular too.
Haha, I caught that too.. I think he was mixing up screen doors, and chain link fences.. Pentile displays are like looking through a chain link fence.
this controller is the coolest thing to ever come out since video games came out. this just step into another whole level of game play
"I wonder why the index still requires additional power while the Rift S doesn't"
It's the audio. There are widespread issues of Rift S crashing because it tries to draw too much power for its speakers. Turning down the volume or using earphones on the Rift S usually fixes it. Valve's speakers would need a lot more power than USB 3.0 is specced for.
EDIT: and any custom components added to the Frunk may need extra power too. They are future-proofing it, not slapping cheap stuff together and saying "good enough."
@blackmanfu or maybe to run your cappuccino machine in the frunk!
@Mike Studmuffin considering original usb 3.0 is only rated to 4.5 watts (0.9A x 5V) and the usb still has to power the screen, internal components, and the sound, it's no wonder many (but not all) users experience issues with Rift S black screen.
Looks amazing, Getting the knuckles stand alone first. Hopefully they get a wireless solution later.
I'm right there with you. I don't think I'm willing to go back to a wired experience. But I gotta get them knuckles.
Yep, need those controllers, but there's no way I'm getting tied down by a cable again.
What headset do you currently use that isn't wired? The wire and the size of the "sweet spot" on the lenses of my current vive are the major drawbacks for me.
@@rameynoodles152
I'm just using an OG Vive with the Vive Wireless. It's a really good wireless solution that gives me very few issues and I never wire it ever. But it won't solve the sweet spot issue you're having. It all looks pretty good for me.
@@rameynoodles152 Vive and Vive Pro. I don't have issues with getting a sweet spot.
19:30 Knuckles, for those who just ordered the controllers.
"Index Controllers"...no, sorry Valve but I am going to continue calling them "Knuckles"!
Why are they fighting this
@@nathanielreed9507 No idea. Knuckles is clearly the better name for them!
They have to accept
th-cam.com/video/Epe75JrJr4g/w-d-xo.html
@@vertisce2845 Knuckles just doesn't have the same sound, and feel as good
Its sort of how apple names stuff
Uganda approves your message
I love this headset. Currently, tech companies seem to want to make people rely on upgrading their tech to some new model they release each year. With this they included so many great features along with the frunk and cameras that help the headset stand the test of time way past when they would end up becoming outdated. I hope people end up using those front cameras for AR games too. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone made a leap motion app using those cams.
Thanks for a very interesting review guys!
Why hello. 😊
I'm using a 240hz monitor... and i came from a 60 hz panel.
THE DIFFERENCE IS HUGE~!
Can confirm. from 30 (when I was on the PS4) to 144 is night and day. I can't imagine how that effect will be in VR!
Damint tho, every video of this I'm getting teased like hell: I'm part of the second batch, so it's gonna come in September
Yeah the difference between 60Hz and 144 is very noticeable, especially for someone who's been gaming at 60 for over 15 years. There are still a lot of people who think it's placebo, though. Obviously they haven't tried anything over 60.
Damn I just got my 1080TI like 6 months ago now they're telling me I gotta shell out for the headset and another 2080 card just to reach that level of clarity? Guess im sticking with my vive for now. No wonder VR is taking off at a snails pace.
@@juniorc1521 Is the 1080Ti not compatible? Seems like that card should be more than fast enough. Maybe I'm missing something.
@@nhh12345 Well I think Jeremy said to utilize the max 144hz that you would need a 2080 most likely. I ordered the knuckles on pre order release day but was gonna wait a while to see the headset reviews and then make that purchase a little down the road. I just got a 1080Ti about 6 months ago. If I gotta upgrade to a 2080 I think ill pass on the headset altogether and just wait for a next gen headset however long that takes.
Here's what Ars Technica wrote on the sweet spot: (guys read the other reviews released today aswell!!)
Where Rift S subtly improved those factors, however, Index steamrolls the competition. This is most evident when using Index while typing and mousing around a Windows desktop while wearing the headset. When I peripherally peek at a chat interface and a Twitch video stream while typing in a central window, the resulting peripheral pixels are still admittedly a tad blurry, but not as much as with last-gen headsets, and peripheral smearing doesn't begin until the roughly 105-degree point on Index. On the Vive Pro, that peripheral smearing starts at roughly the 80-degree point and is more severe.
That direct comparison to Vive Pro makes me pretty hopeful.
@@suicidalbanananana
It appears that what Norm considers to be the definition of sweet spot and what UploadVR and Ars Technica considers it to be, are not the same. Norm is talking about if the HMD shifts on your face but still maintains visual clarity.
UploadVR and Ars Technica are talking about keeping the HMD stationary on your face and looking around with your eyeballs vs. moving your head/neck to look around. It seems the VR industry has yet to agree on what "sweet spot" actually means.
That eye relief looks much more than 1cm, more like an inch.
Thanks for this. I have always trusted and respected your reviews.
God i cant wait to get my knuckles. Been waiting ever since they first showed them off
I'd like to try Boneworks with those controllers...
That's what it's designed for.
I'd like to try Boneworks full stop.
Unless it's out and I didn't notice.
@@Duhya Not yet, they just released another demo on Node though. I hope it's out by the time my Index ships in September though.
The shiny front panel reminds me of the early oculus rift consumer version concept image. Back when the development kits were getting shipped.
Hoooooo!
as Spongebob would put it '' i dont need it, i dont need it, I DONT NEEEED IT'' and i bought it >.
I _definitely_ don't need it.
...
...
*I NEEEEED IT!*
Mr Krabs when you don't buy it: "Spongebob!"
Mr Krabs when you buy it: "Spooongeeebobbbb...."
Great. Even SpongeBob has it and I don't...
I want it... I want it..! I WANT IT!!!! im broke...
PINKIE UP!!
Hahaha no episode 3 coming.
Wew! was waiting for this. Thanks Jeremy and Norm!
Well we're not getting Episode 3.
But we are getting a new Half Life game.
I could've sworn you said "Thanks Tom and Jerry!" 😂
You guys work SO WELL together! Thank you for the ongoing procurement of genius level thought flows!
The fact the FOV is increased without actually being increased is a big deal to me :)
Hey owner of knuckles dev kit here, there are in fact safety wrist straps in the package. I use them because I have thrown my knuckles on a sweaty beat saber session. Just letting yall know
Thank you! I always had the fear that would happen eventually so I was planning to always use the straps anyway :)
@@LordVis no problem my dude, hit me up with any other questions
This is a really informative look at the hardware. I appreciated the detail on the ergonomics like the foam, in/out headset knob, and arm swing test with the controllers. On the first day using my WMR Acer headset, I found the lenses got scratched by my glasses and I ended up 3d printing lens holders and got $20 prescription lenses. By being able to move the headset outwards, that tells me they solved that problem.
I found with my gear VR that it didn't fit with my glasses correctly. Also with one of the hosts comments about it felt like his eyelashes were about to hit the lenses, mine actually do. My eyelashes and eyebrows are always greasing up the lenses on my glasses and sunglasses, and my Gear VR lenses are not immune.
please make a compare for text legibility between valve index and hp reverb
Yep. Same. I would love reverb text readability with knuckles controllers. Too much to ask? Prolly.
Well it would be subjective anyway I think, obviously smaller text will be sharper on the reverb since it packs more pixels into what is effectively a fairly smaller FOV from what I've understood, however I doubt the reverb is going to be at a level where you can read unzoomed text in a desktop resolution virtually at least without squinting... I have a Pimax 5K+ and I have yet to have any issues reading in game prompts so long as I don't push the resolution too much, in for example VorpX playing normal games. The only exception is when they stick your health bars/number to the far outer edges of the FOV, which a fair bit of games unfortunately do.
nequals 1 no. If you have the base stations and a vice or the usb receivers you can already use wmr with vive wands using openVR input tools
@@noth606 subjective?? steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1359389601 just get this and see what is readable from where
the hp is double the number of pixels and smaller fov than the index it will be way better .....but still not that close to 20/20 human vision
it has the same as the quest i believe. on the quest i can comfortably read text from websites and so on. on the vive it's just to low resolution. on the quest it's just enough to be comfortable
Very excited for mine to come in, but the comments about the optics were very disappointing... Everything else looks great, but I was really excited for new optics...
You have to remember that they've spent a lot of time with all of the newest HMDs coming out this year.
After you've gotten used to the Rift S, HP Reverb, and the other high resolution LCD panels then the Index will feel more incremental.
If all you've experienced before though is the Vive OR CV1 then I think you'll be blown away by the clarity of Index.
upload VR said that the sweetspot is huge compared to all the other headsets and you can look around just with your eyes. They also said that there are rings like on the vive but you only notice them at the edges. All in all the lenses are much better than before
I think the confusion is around definition of the term sweet spot. it seems sweet spot of the index regarding making sure you put the headset on correctly is similar to gen 1 but once it's on correctly there is less distortion in your fov.
@michael b
It appears that what Norm considers to be the definition of sweet spot and what UploadVR considers it to be, are not the same. Norm is talking about if the HMD shifts on your face but still maintains visual clarity. UploadVR is talking about keeping the HMD stationary on your face and looking around with your eyeballs vs. moving your head/neck to look around.
It seems the VR industry has yet to agree on what "sweet spot" actually means.
@@nrosko I saw Norm's clarification later on on Reddit. Definitely more hopeful, but Godrays are still up in the air. There seems to be quite a bit of disparity between reviewers. This could all come down to Jargon, but who knows. Still staying hopeful.
Wow the look of the quality of material looks so much better than any other headset.. Which I suppose you would expect with the price tag..
well vive pro and vive pro eye and pimax r more expensive.... unless the vive pro price is down
What do you know. You do get what you pay for ;-p
My favorite quote about the Index is something like "It looks like at every opportunity they chose the more expensive higher quality option"
I can't wait to play No Man's Sky VR with the Index and Index controllers. This will be soooo sick.
Valve huh? Shame they’ll never make a third generation...
Hey hey hey, let's call this one the first one okay? The Vive was by HTC... technically? So that will give us at least one more to the Index 2 :D
@@blobworksbits7610 So should I wait for the 2.0?
@@Sniperahead i'd expect their next headset to drop around late 2023 to 2026 so if you want the newest in VR for many years to come buy this. However if it's not quite advanced enough for you to put money into it i'm sure the next headset will be much more advanced if you can take the wait. Personally i'll be purchasing this (upgrading from an original rift)
@@das_right9657 ok, see you in VR :P
joseph samano whoosh and you don’t understand the reference
This is what I'm holding out for!
F# metoo
Headset feels a bit underwhelming to me for the price tbh. I’ll wait for gen 2 but this is Valve, so doubt that’ll happen.
@@zenithquasar9623 Gabe said that they were going to make the technology as good as possible before trying to bring the price down, so I'd expect at least one more generation from Valve.
@@h4724-q6j I hope so, just can't trust Valve because they are pretty all around the place.
Waste of money they skipped a lot of corners
Love how Jeremy always sais, it is Jeremy from TEST-ed, as if Norm said it wrong.
i hate it
@24:30 - Lifetime shooter here. Too much grip causes inconsistency. Same with motorcycles, new riders tend to over squeeze subconsciously... nerves. This leads to someting we call "arm Pump". Cramps and fatigue.
Brrraaaapp brraaapp
The sweetspot and godrays sound like a deal breaker to me. For some reason I expected improvements on those, but I guess I'll just stick to my lens modded Vive for now
I am certainly looking forward to this headset. Seems like the perfect upgrade from the original vive/rift.
You can do input config stuff for defaults in steamVR I have my knuckles working with a custom input config
What's your opinion on the analog stick's placement? Is it too far away from the center of the controller to cramp up thumbs?
@@afriendofjamis not really. The hand size change thing makes it so the buttons and stick are always the right distance away. So yeah with that a bit and you'll find what's comfortable I light second from largest setting my self. Also you hardly used the stick in any games.
Have you used them on that drunk bar fight game? Or can you lol.
@@benbionic What do you mean you hardly use the stick in any games? I use the sticks with my Rift for absolutely every game and I hope I can do the same with the Index controllers.
gonzax I think he means games with support for _these_ controllers atm generally focus the gameplay more on the hand and finger tracking aspect.
Cuz why make a *pre-launch* Index game to demonstrate an experience you can get on another older headset? We'll see more diverse games eventually.
I should have preorded day1. Hopefully I get mine by September.
I tried too, but it sold out within minutes... Not to mention many scalpers bought a bunch of them up as well :/
Mr Vuck Fiacom I think they were available all day. Maybe it was with the base stations I was looking at.
26:00, we saw you tesing the bird, and then realize you’re recording😂
13:24 The original vive DID come with headphones. It came with ear buds that attached to a short 3.5mm extension cable that plugged into the headset. They were ok for bundled earbuds, but i have studio headphones so i always used those.
hey miss could i see your panties
I just bought a vive back at Christmas, I knew should have waited...
I'm still gonna buy the knuckles.
You can always sell it and make most of your money back. VR headsets keep most of their value.
How much does it weigh? It looks smaller than the OG Vive so I've been wondering if it's lighter, which would be a big factor for added comfort.
Thats true, I own the Vive and you do feel the weight of it. Would be sweet if Index is lighter than Vive.
I heard the weight was increased. Ballpark from the top of my head was 860g versus something like 600g
@@Mankepanke oof
The Star wars games that can be made with those controllers are gonna be amazing. Force push and pull can now be done now that you can open your hand without dropping the controller.
Not sold on the HMD but I like the controllers and it's a little more FoV so might bite. Just wish someone would come out with Pimax FoV, Vive Pro colors and Oculus like software at 120Hz
Preordered mine and cant bloody wait for it!!
same here =)
As a developer myself, and a fan of martial arts, I've been working on an idea where grip strength improves the power of punches. I really wish more developers were understanding the potential of the Index controllers
Imagine how cool a VR Spider-Man game would be.
Stanley Chan both marvel spiderman movies got their own little mini games where you swing around as spiderman, a full game would be amazing though
I'm really excited about this, it ticks so many boxes. The resolution, refresh rate, controllers, and speakers are all looking awesome. But, at $1000, I am a little disappointed in the god-ray having optics. They are so close to a best available experience, I don't know why they would compromise or skimp or just ignore improving the lenses. Are the lenses interchangeable? Can they be safely removed and replaced with upgraded/prescription lenses by the end user?
Resolution isnt enough for me too. For me the best factors are 1) New Audio model 2) Fov and then comfort, controllers and ofc refresh rate is very important too but if you are seeing or playing something in fast movement. Resolution and Fov are the most important things about VR in general.
@@ariarasti7606 My priorities are a little different. FOV has never been an issue for me, I guess my peripheral vision isn't all that great. The Oculus CV1 is fine for me in that regard, any extra is just bonus.
Resolution though is tricky. Obviously more is better, but we are in a situation where the absolute best performing top of the line $1300 video card can't provide 90+ fps in the most demanding games. As resolution increases, we also need graphic fidelity to increase as well otherwise we will just have more pixels to look at the poor geometry and low-res textures, which means an exponential cuvre in terms of needed performance. I think the resolution they choose is appropriate for right now.
My hope is that nVidia or AMD make some massive breakthrough in performance, whether that is enabling multiple cards for VR rendering, or FOVeated rendering, or some other specific VR optimizations. Then we can move up to 4k per eye at 144Hz, and maybe have the processing power to push those kinds of pixels.
@@ariarasti7606 Resolution does not matter for VR. What makes a clear image in VR is a combination of lens and display design which accounts for the PPD. The Index has 50% more subpixels than the vive pro. The Index is the HMD you want if you are after a clear and crisp image.
I'm really disappointed there are no eye tracking cameras and no downward-facing (body tracking) camera. Feels like that's the final missing hardware piece for basic social interactions hitting parity with in-person interactions.
I honestly never notice god rays beyond dark menu screens with white text.
Everyone else: OMG, new super-amazing VR headset!
Me: so what you're telling me is that there's gonna be a drop in the 2nd-hand HTC vive market price? Nice.
not really , because people will not be selling their lighthouses. And the price of 2 lighthouses and a second hand vive headset you may as well buy a new vive
Everyone is talking about the controllers, I’m glad you guys took the time to cover everything about the headset itself
So excited for the future of VR, i hope in 2 or 3 years we can have a similar experience like this in Quest 2 or something like that
This may be the first half-hour long video I've watched on TH-cam where I actually wanted it to keep going
Probably the most anticipated video for me in recent history, loving it so far!
Jeremy is literally bouncing with excitement at the start of the video. Do we really need to know more?
yes actually
My preordered Valve Index kit arrives Monday, can't wait!
No I loved the flat cable, because it was visually apparent how many twists were in it!
Can't wait. My Index Controller ship in a month.
mine says estimate ship September 30 how???
@@totzfx first wave preorders went out of stock quick as hell. the full kit went out of stock within 24 minutes in the U.S and from there it just kept getting backordered as more people reserved individual parts to get it earlier. First wave ships late june, which I am in as well as OP :P had to be there for the launch countdown to be first wave more or less.
@@dragormeghar2100 I only ordered the Index controllers. The still ship until end of June.
Dragor Meghar your so lucky ;-;
You guys are awesome!! Always so knowledgeable and thorough. Keep it up :-)
so.. is the scuba mask effect gone?... a wider FOV that takes away the scuba mask effect means a world of difference.
You need to go to Pimax for it. But they're a class above Index regarding the pricepoint as well...
A quick note about the audio. Part of the reason it sounds better on Index is because the sound is now properly engaging your entire ear. The outer ear actually plays a significant role in our perception of sounds. When using traditional over-ear headphones like the OG Rift or ear buds, you're actually cutting off that less crucial, but still important part of your aural perception system.
This actually makes me interested in VR gaming when I wasn't before. I'm impressed at the level of immersion that you guys are describing and showed off in the videos.
VR has been like this for years, you are missing out.
Awesome! I'm sticking with my Pimax 5k+ and getting knuckles and will be happy for now. I hope the Index brings more players into VR!
Heads up, AFAIK Knuckles are not operable with Pimax HMD's as of yet.
With that price tag it won't, the rift s and quest will bring more people to it. Especially since Facebook it backing it and pushing ads on FB, INSTA, and a few other sites
Yeah, though, they have said they will support them. Hopefully by the time they ship. There is a work around on the forums though: forum.pimaxvr.com/t/knuckles-controller-index-controller-dont-work-with-pimax-edit-now-it-works-workaround-found/19940/23
We need booth higher end HMD's and more affordable ones for the masses. We have that with both now.
@@trashman9948 They work fine as of a couple months ago. Used Knuckles DVs just a couple hours ago with 5k+.
20:45
When you're addicted to VR but your headset is broken.
XD
Nice!!
Well, i guess im buying a pair... the framerate sounds SICK!
A pair of what? Its not socks
@@ATestamentToTech yet we still call pants a pair. Language is weird.
In terms of max refresh rate that we could see on screens, it depends on the resolution and speed of moving objects, The faster objects move across the screen, such as a mouse, the bigger difference there is from frame to frame, but if the refresh rate is high enough or objects are moving slow enough to where objects such as the mouse, only move one pixel per frame, then it will look perfectly smooth, and the higher the resolution is, the smaller each pixel is, which means the higher resolution you need. Some quick maths... moving a mouse fairly fast on a 165hz 27"" 1440p monitor will result in about 2cm of cursor movement per frame (about 90pixels on a 1440p 27" display), so for this scenario, to make the mouse movement, completely jitter free the monitor would need 90x higher refresh rate so that the cursor moves just one pixel per frame, that's 14,850 fps.... this very fast movement though, so 1-5kHz would be more than good enough for almost any situation. we may never get these refresh rates in our lifetimes though, since game devs focus more on graphics (such as adding raytracing, which brings the fastest cards in the world, down to 1080p 60hz)
The cable from the breakout box to the OG Vive is the same length as the cable from the Trident connector to the Index. Added together, the length length of cable between PC and headset is the same
The field of view comparison shots here seem to only differ in the vertical plain.
I think it's very difficult to show the fov over youtube
My brother swears with the HP Reverb because of the higher resolution. I went for the Valve Index as it's a better total package imo. Could you do a comparision between both of them?
You brother can wait for a VERY LONG time then lol
The god rays on Vive have never bothered me so it looks like I’ll keep that reservation for the headset...for two more months 😩
Latest Vive comes with Vive Pro-style cable to link box FYI
This was a great review, just bought the Index a few days ago for NMS:VR (Beyond) -- Thanks!
How long did it take to ship and arrive ?
@@TheGamingCrypt Takes up to 4 business days depending on how far away you live from chicago (Valve shipping center).
I think you confused people with your sweet spot comments. It appears you are using "sweet spot" for different things.
1. How much you can move your eyeballs around and still get a distortion free clear image ( with the headset adjusted properly )
2. How much you can move your head relative to the headset without losing your clear image.
Maybe we need a different term for each of these.
What I read repeatedly is that once properly adjusted that the Index allows you to look basically edge to edge with your eyeball and get a clear image and I think this is what most people call the sweet spot. This video seemed to contradict that to many people.
Exactly, I refer to #2 as "sweetspot" and I made up a word for #1, "eye look". I based this word on the fact that it refers to you looking with your eyes and that for monitor games "mouse look" refers to looking around the environment with your mouse vs. your eyes with VR.
@@henryyopp9094 Thanks for that clarification. I still think this is a point of confusion because most reviews I've read refer to #1 as sweet spot. Please don't take this as criticism. I'm not saying you are wrong and they are right, just that reviewers are not in agreement on terms.
I just read this in response to what is the sweet spot questions which would support that this review used the term properly. The other term "saccades" is totally foreign to me. However I read many more responses that suggest most people use sweet spot for both. ARGH!!!!
"The sweet spot is the area in the middle of the lens in which your pupil needs to be in order to get a clear image. Having a larger sweet spot makes it easier to position the headset in a way that gives you a clear image, and reduces risk of image blurring if the headset shifts around on your face while moving.
In addition to this, different lenses can allow for varying degrees of saccades (eye movements) while maintaining a clear image. Vive's lenses, for example, don't allow for a lot of eye saccades - if you look away from straight ahead, the image quickly grows increasingly blurry. Rift's lenses allow almost edge-to-edge clarity, and Go's lenses increase this clarity even further."
True Pimax had a very small sweet spot. But once you have it the clarity is sharp at about 130 degrees and softens after that but would require real eyestrain to see it.
I'm so glad i bought base stations for my hybrid Oculus and vive tracker fully body set up, because the only upgrade over the rift imo is the index and that's a steep price to swallow. thank god its only 750$ for me
If I buy the index do I need to buy the base stations too? I don't have any existing VR hardware.
@@meltdowninteractivemedia Yes you will. but make sure to reserve the full kit, it will be cheaper if price is a big factor to you (shipping is free and taxes depend on your state/country) (some states don't make you pay out of state tax so it was a flat price of what I saw with no additional costs). As of now you won't be paying just getting a spot in line to pay later down the year when they fill current back orders. you would be notified via email and have 7 days to pay when received to keep your spot in line for shipping.
If you want the absolute best tracking index is the way to go though. trust me when I say lighthouse tracking is amazing. You will easily get lost in vr. and the new light house's have an even wider FOV so even farther/better tracking. They are also slightly faster in their update speed so the tracking would be even smoother.
Your first time will be damn near magical. kinda jealous the index and controllers will be your first experience as well :P VR is an entirely different amazing level of gaming.
@@dragormeghar2100 thanks for the advice, appreciate it :)
@@meltdowninteractivemedia it depends on what you like to do in vr. if you just want to fly sims or race cars you only need ONE base station an no controllers. For a full roomscale experience you need the complete kit.
@@funghus4714 Thanks yes I think the full kit is the way to go. I'm a game developer too and developing for VR is something I will be doing down the line so it makes sense to be able to do everything neccessary.
Productivity review please?
What's it like reading a .pdf or documentation on a website?
"Comes out in about a month"
Valve: *Releases it an exact month after this videos upload*
Valve Time got so bad the clock rolled back around to "on time."
I expect the audio solution is better because it replicates open-backed headphones. Open-backed headphones have better soundstage, which can give you a good impression of directionality of sound.
Can you go more in depth in terms of clarity say compared to the Vive Pro
I would advise to read some of the other more in depth previews some of which compare the screens of the 2 headsets.
This is probably the review I've been waiting on more than any other over the last couple years. Let's see if my preconceptions are right or wrong...I've been skeptical about the value of the higher hz after reading so many Rift S reviewers say they don't notice 80hz compared to the 90hz of the CV1. Low persistence on the other hand? I'm guessing is equally important, and the Index has very low persistence.
When somebody is used to console 30 fps, they are comfortable with that and don't know any better. If that person switches to a 60 FPS PC experience at some point, they usually notice more fluidity to their in-game motions, and on switching back to 30 FPS , they notice a big decrease in their ability to make tight and accurate maneuvers in a game. If the 60 FPS player then switches to a 120 hz or 144 hz monitor, the increase in fluid motion is just as dramatic as it was to 60 from 30. Once a player is used to the experience of 120 or higher FPS, switching back to 60 FPS again is a noticeable downgrade that the player has trouble adjusting to again. I say all of this from my own experience. Once you get used to 120 hz or more, 60 FPS has a noticeable "lag" and I find it difficult to be anywhere near as competitive. Increasing the frames per second is very much akin to removing layers of separation between yourself and the game, where-as fewer FPS seems like there is an artificial layer of difficulty added, sort of like a slow internet connection that is disrupting the experience. I suspect that playing VR with a higher refresh rate will closely match the experience I had when switching to PC and then upgrading further to a faster monitor.
@@suicidalbanananana you also have to remember that even though psvr is 120hz 98% of games run at 60 fps. With the index and a PC you can push that framerate up to 120 fps and it will make a massive difference
I bet a lot of people trying it wear glasses IRL
You should understand that it's impossible to tell a 10fps difference, but presence doesn't really start until around 70-90hz depending on the person. It's fair to say that sitting at the bare minimum is unacceptable. Perfect example is PSVR which is most often at 60fps and reprojected to 120, but is still noticeable since the software isn't great. Which is why lots of people get sick using it. I've had my vive for 3 years and even I get pretty sick after using the PSVR for more than 20min.
@@suicidalbanananana PSVR is not 120hz, it's reprojected from 60fps. If the software is better, it could be smoothed out, but since the processing power has a very small amount of headroom, the PSVR is simply below the threshold for acceptable VR. It's easy to tell by trying PSVR and then trying PCVR (I own both)
From average consumer this type of tech is best when you buy it 1 - 2 years from release. Softwarwe is better and it should be a bit cheaper
This is very interesting. Cant wait to review the Index when I get my pre-order on June 28
VoodooDE VR Freue mich auf dein Review! :-D
No one mentioned that the lighthouses make an annoying high pitched buzzing noise and uses lasers (probably not healthy being blasted with lasers).
The Audio is the best thing about the Index, great speakers, and adjustable.
I didn't keep it because the price, the sensors noise/lasers, and I found it is heavy and uncomfortable, compared to the Rift S. The fabric is nice but It needs MORE padding, didn't feel like a gel pad to me, maybe they cheaped out on that part on the newer models? 11:45 Oh yeah I did notice it moves out of the sweet spot giving not so sharp display, where Rift S stays in place more without having to strap down so hard it hurts my face.
Field of view and resolution is a little higher on the index over the Rift S but not too big of a difference. Biggest difference is the audio and the price.
Frunk = Kinect style attachment that hangs down for mouth, legs, and hand tracking.
At least that's what I want. :-)
It's for whatever you want. I saw Valve were demonstrating it using an animated LED display.
that would be amazing. Like a thing that extends out and is pointed towards the user's body and has full body tracking. Immersion to the next level
John Zimmerman yeah but it would have to be super light weight or else it could create neck pain.
If you have the V1 tracking system you can get the Vive trackers to track your legs/feet/torso.
Frunk = attachment for robo- fleshlight for immersive vr porn
Fov is the most important for improvement. You only disagree if you never jump from a crappy 90-110 to 170-220
I have a friend with a 5k+ that I have had lots of time with and I heavily disagree. The image is greatly distorted and has tons of issues becasue of this like pupil swim. The lens, display design and headset design have to work together. Pimax is proof of a complete mess that had no thought other than smashing parts together to chase after the highest fidelity possible. I know you will disagree since I bet you are part of the tiny minority that is still delusional about your broken pimax. Oh yes, I've seen the list of backers and how most of them are broken, including the 7 of my own friend's pimaxes, all whom have still not gotten a replacement or reply from Pimax and have had to resort to selling their broken units on ebay like everyone else. You are going to have to face facts at some point. You were swindled.
Oh and the Pimax has a max FOV of 170. Add that to the long list of things Pimax lied about.
It's important but I wouldn't say hands down most important. The cultivation of multiple improvements is what make the finished product stand out above the competition
Since Pimax did the software fix the last couple months that fixed the distortion, added brainwarp and contrast and brightness control it is amazing and every reviewer needs to redo their review. All the early complaints are gone. They even came out with a harder plastic version.
No. I tried pimax 5k+ and went back to odyssey+. The FOV was just nowhere near as important as SDE, black levels and NO DISTORTION.
Before you ask yes this was post the 'distortion fix' (i still have it) and no, the distortion was nowhere near fixed!
@@Tom--Ace I guess I have a normal face as I can no longer see any distortion while playing and it used to bother me at the Large FOV. I guess the Index will have similar black levels with the LCD panels. Odyssey+ is a great budget headset though.
Hi Norm, just a quick question... Do you see a digital display inside the headset when you change the ipd adjustment or do you have to guess?
It's steamvr so it will have a display
Man, this is like the slowest half hour I've ever felt. Not in a bad way, I was just so focused on every word they were saying that time kinda just slowed down
Extra power cable is fantastic if you ask me. USB power feed is so problematic in so many motherboards (and even powered hubs).
Even with 2.5" USB hard disks that supposedly only use USB power, I have solved soooo many problems by changing the USB 3.0 cable with a split cable that plugs on an extra USB port for power (or better a USB charger).
20:44
Controller flingability test.
God rays are disappointing, but I'm still super excited to get mine.
Does it have wireless like VIve?
GOD RAYS for me are by FAR the killer! I can deal with lower resolutions, I can deal with screen door effect, but those god damn god rays are a deal breaker!
@Zatoichi I have news for you... the S has god rays, just not as bad as before! If you tried a Go it would be similar.
@Zatoichi I know You felt like me when you put on that Rift for the first time... Them GOD RAYS SUCKED!
@Zatoichi Well, Oculus Rift S still has godrays, especially if you're out of the fixed lense IPD range, but the effect sure is greatly reduced.
God, those controllers are amazing! Now imagine if they added force feedback with gyros or something...
That's actually a pretty clever way to add responsive "weight" to the controllers. Remember powerball? I member. Getting it to fit to the controllers could be a hurdle and a half though.
@@SaltyMaud yup,
I can’t wait to see Oculus’s product response to the Valve Index. It’s so exciting seeing how far VR has come.
1950: *in 2020 we will have flying cars*
2020: *you can play ROCK PAPER SCISSORS in VR*
Here is my question. Will this personally be your go to headset?
I believe for now, yes. The frame rate and FOV is the sell point.
Holt shit, these controllers are amazing
FreeSync would be amazing for VR, would eliminate the constant toggling.
The problem has been that strobing required for low persistence isn't compatible with VRR/FreeSync. When the framerate dips the scene would get darker. But ASUS just figured out how to solve it with their new monitor (go to BlurBusters (AUS TUF VG32VQ)) so maybe there is hope for VR! Also, lets get HDR while we're at it.
@@mckirkus I have never noticed the screen getting darker on any of my FreeSync monitor... I had some of it when I modded it to a non-FreeSync monitor, but that still wasn't very noticable.
@@AQDuck The problem is when you have blur reduction (strobing) AND FreeSync at the same time. Currently VR and only does blur reduction/low persistence.
SDE started with the DK1 which actually had a grid. It's why one of the top images is from the original VR demo with a representation of the effect superimposed on it.
SDE has been massively reduces since then, but now we're starting to see the subpixelation of the screen, which creates a different effect. RGB has a stronger screen door effect than pentile (because grids are more obvious to us), but the fact is the SDE has been low for a long time. The main problem now isn't actually the SDE but the subpixelation.
As for FPS, it doesn't even matter what we can see. You get artefacting if you ever have something more more than a single pixel in a frame (which is why when you shake a mouse you get multiple mice showing and not a blur). That is something that needs stupidly high FPSes to solve. And that's ignoring that our eyes can easily see 1ms flashes of white light on black.
You do realize that the displays on the Index are extremely low-latency and low persistence, right? Artifacting won't be an issue, lmao.
Arguing that PenTile has less SDE than an RGB-stripe screen of the same resolution tells everyone who reads this "I'm a VR tech illiterate idiot!". What you say ONLY applies if the headsets have the same number of SUBPIXELS not pixels. Aka a 33% lower full pixel resolution RGB stripe panel will have worse SDE than a 33% higher res PenTile one. But PenTile's "irregular grid" only makes up for having a THIRD LESS subpixels in your drunken delusional ass dreams.
What I wish they could do was just put it as a TV for like an Xbox without all the motion control and stuff that way you can play two player like Ark
Hey that's not a bad idea