There seems to be some confusion as to whether or not this is canon or my own head-canon, so here is the inspiration for this video about the official behind the scenes reasoning that went into the Burn: intl.startrek.com/news/the-science-behind-discoverys-burn . Where I speculate or make assumptions, I point out in the video, notably the "resonance of Dilithium" as seen in TNG's S2E15 "Pen Pals", hope this helps clarify :)
"scientific" or not, the very idea is rancid garbage. Were I the showrunner and I was handed a script like that...I would have tossed it in the recycle bin immediately, hoping it would find it's true home as a component of "bathroom tissue".
@@seanmachado7681 I was shocked when i watched the episode that revealed this on a flight. This is lazy, nonsensical writing. These writers were clearly not hired based on ability.
@@alakani TNG was a good *TV show*, especially after season 3. There is not, has not, and likely NEVER WILL BE any Life Lessons. ST of ANY VARIANT is a science fiction entertainment product. Even TOS for all the social commentary was a TV show described as "wagon train to the stars" which could be *cheaply made* per Roddenberry. GOOD STORIES do not need 'compromise'. You can write ABOUT compromise but your story should NOT HAVE PLOT HOLES so big you can put the station from DS9 though them. A bad ridiculous plotline makes a bad story.
Alien cries, dilithium blows up everywhere...alien cries later on, ships nearby don't blow up. Also, dilithium apparently changed from a control item that lasted years to a resource that is consumed like fuel.
@@christophernemeth421 Didn’t Spock more or less invent recrystallising dilithium in Star Trek IV? Obviously that was refined by TNG so you didn’t even have to remove the crystals from the warp core.
@@mb2000 and even then there’s discussions of mining colonies, Voyager needs to resupply. Maybe recrystallising takes the consumption down to 1% but it’s still used-up. And even if individual ships hardly ever needed new dilithium, there’s always ships getting destroyed and new ones being built.
The temporal Cold War was an idiotic story idea, imo, just like all of ST:D and the Kurtz’verse. But that’s really just my opinion. I grew watching the original series, movies, TNG, and DS9 but the franchise took a nose dive in ST:V and Ent when they took neat ideas and and screwed them up completely. But hey if you like those or the current stuff that’s great, I’m truly happy people enjoy it. I just don’t.
@@tarn1135 I enjoyed the idea of the Temporal Cold War, but the execution left a lot to be desired. The revelation that they hadn't really decided who Future Guy was sums it up. How do you _not_ have that aspect decided before you start using the character? And it being future Archer doesn't make _any_ sense.
@@tarn1135 The Temporal stuff in Enterprise was pretty bad because it came off as the writers and producers throwing a bone and claiming to be furthering the narrative universe even though they were doing a prequel series. Can't have your cake and eat it too. This trashy Nu Trek by contrast takes the cake, because on top of the Temporal Cold War they heave some cop out about why the Feds or other powers didn't just jump back in time and prevent this stupid cataclysm. They sent Daniels back to nudge Enterprise along and prevent the Sphere Builders from winning, but can't do the same thing for this idiotic "Burn" nonsense because reasons.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel Another problem was, that they ignored some Voyager Episodes. If there is a disturbance in the temporal flow, the Temporal Agency sends a ship to correct this incident
I thought the reason for "the Burn" was incredibly weak. An awful choice of reasoning. When I first heard of the premise of all warp drives going bust and the Burn, I immediately thought of Omega. One of my favourite Voyager episodes.. That it was a Crybaby with mutations was awfully weak and I despise it. If the writers wanted to subvert expectations, they went waaay too far. If they wanted a Kelpian arc in Season 3 for Saru to experience, it should and COULD have been done in a different way. I think the Burn was a bunch of BS. I enjoyed the premise of a Federation in shambles and the mystery of the Burn, but Su'Kal was incredibly weak. Yes, repairing subspace from Omega damage would have been a stretch, but Omega still has enough mystery to be played with. Instead of wrecking subspace, there could have been a "lighter", but further reaction due to an experiment gone wrong, that made dilithium react. It could have e.g merely been the Omega "shockwave" without the actual "explosion" at the center. And Discovery/Federation had to stop the scheduled repeat of the experiment.. Or something else.. but Su'Kal was weak and bummed me out as the "cause".
They had a believable and KNOWN excuse for a scenario like "The Burn", from all the way back in the days of STNG. The episode Force of Nature spoke of how Warp Travel damaged Sub-Space. That could have easily been expanded upon, and used as a legitimate reason for why Warp is dangerous and unreliable
@@MrTurbowhitey Boy did they backtrack on that one ^^ It was never mentioned again in DS9, Voyager, etc.. I watched that episode not too long ago. That it wasn't "explained away" to the viewer was kinda sad.. Instead they went with a "Let's just forget that ever happened" Not even a little dropped line of "Since the ecofriendly Warp update to prevent the subspace damage this and that.." Discovery could have fixed that.. "Commander Burnham, a few years before the Dominion War Starfleet and the other Alpha quadrant powers had adapted warp drives to not damage subspace. You wouldn't know that, but your theory doesn't add up. We knew about the phenomenon you just accused Starfleet of. It was solved after your departure to the future." But naah.. Su'Kal. :D
They could have easily thrown in the Kelpians as well. Have them conduct some wacky experiment with dilithium to proove their value to the Federation as a potential member
I didn’t know unrefined dilithium ore was still intact and usable, that’s nice. Now you just have to figure out how to go into a subspace realm entirely made up of dilithium
I had the impression that all dilithium refined or not that was not actively regulating power was not destroyed. The explosions were unregulated power as in matter antimatter reactions or a singularity implosion and any dilithium not in use was just fine. Basically the sympathetic vibration simply interfered with the ability to regulate power. I would also suspect that dilithium was not the only way to regulate power, just the most compact and lowest mass method of doing so perhaps to the point of other methods only being suitable with stationary reactors. Also, it is the warp plasma in the nacelles that create the warp field which is consistent with our theories of the Alcubierre drive, warp plasma has been shown to be stable in containers on both Enterprise and Voyager, we saw a warp capable shuttle on The Motion Picture which only had disposable nacelles not a reactor, life support pods seem to travel FTL to reach habitable planets, moons and asteroids and normal shuttles also travel distances that would require FTL, yes I know the runabouts had reactors but it's all the other shuttles I'm referencing. I suspect these low warp vehicles used stored warp plasma. We have a precedence for this as we had small steam locomotives without boilers to push and pull cars around in a rail yard, these used a large vacuum insulated de-gas bottle to hold steam filled from a stationary boiler. Tge same coukd be true with low warp escape pods and shuttles. I would expect that post burn FTL travel would be on low warp ships with large storage containers that stored warp plasma from stationary reactors at least till they determined that using dilithium appeared safe again. I had hoped to see an old ship that was like that, with huge tanks.
@@johnwang9914 there’s also the fact that Zefram Cochrane’s Phoenix was able to achieve warp not using dilithoum but using a nuclear reaction from a nuclear missile… so yes the dilithoum Burn kinda makes sense if you view Dilithium’s subspace component as being roughly analogous to reaction of Plutonium
@@DancingRasputin Which is another reason why I think low warp by bottled warp plasma from stationary reactors was possible. Zefram Cochrane could've slowly accumulated warp plasma with energy from say nuclear reactors over a long period of time for the short warp flight. I doubt the nuclear core of the nuclear weapon would be used for power except perhaps to seed a Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactor which would produce it's own nuclear fuel from the wastes from mining of pretty much anything, literally from rocks, quite suitable for a post apocalyptic world. I think the analogy is more akin to the silicon transistor or diode which was the latest technology of the 60's when Star Trek TOS was created, dilithium only regulated power. There's no need for dilithium to participate in the actual generation of power which we know are matter antimatter reactions with the Federation and an artificial singularity with the Romulans, both methods we already have the actual math for without any McGuffins. There's no need for dilithium to have anything to do with subspace except for the Kelpian scream to somehow propagate FTL but even subspace would not be fast enough to explain the simultaneous burn however the mycelium network would be fast enough so there are mechanisms in lore that can, it's just not subspace.
All the screens just have this Omega Symbol with a little volume speaker icon in the middle Captain? Oh no, that means a shouty Kelpian, we're all doomed
I loved the build up to the revelation of it. Sadly I felt the Burn once they revealed it was a screaming kelpian. Lol But your videos are always awesome. Keep up the good work Rick.
S3 really shit the bed IMO...Wasted a perfect opportunity to have another season of epic battles with the emerald chain and to delve deeper into Section 31 in favour of a screaming kelpian man-baby using the force to blow up dilithium and to harp on Adira not being a girl anymore (which they could have tied neatly into the fact that she's a trill symbiont that has lived many lives as many genders but didn't) ...Not sure I'm going to be tuning into S4 with the same amount of loyalty or enthusiasm as with previous seasons or at all TBH.
@ LMAO. A biological adult whose tantrum destroyed civilization, kept in a naive, child-like state from existing in a "safe space", unable to independently transition to, accept or function in the reality of the real world. Sounds about right. At least the writers are consistent.
I've pointed this out before, but for the Burn to be as important as it became in Discovery, a few things have to be true. 1) Dilithium MUST be an absolutely vital component in ANY and ALL methods of generating power for warp drive. We don't actually see the reactors for most races, so we're all assuming that most or all races use Matter/Anti-Matter Reactors, but the reality is, even in the Alpha Quadrant we've only seen Dilithium being used in this specific manner in Federation ships and Klingon ships. We never see what any other races use to generate power. 1a) This also assumes that any other use of Dilithium beyond regulating M/AM reactions will be as catastrophic if the Dilithiium goes inert 1b) Romulan mining of Dilithium simply means that it's an important resource, it does not mean that it's being used in an Aritifical Quantum Singularity drive, nor does it mean that an AQS is the only technology that the Romulans use for power generation. The fact of the matter is, the AQS has never been described in enough detail to make an assumption as to what components are necessary. It could be that M/AM reactors aren't sufficiently powerful for a ship that is 1.5 Kilometers long, and must be capable of shielding or cloaking itself AND simultaneously traveling at warp 9.6. That does not mean that smaller Romulan ships use an AQS and it does not mean that they don't also utilize M/AM reactors. 2) It assumes that every implementation of FTL is functionally similar to the Federation's implementation of Warp drive, and we've already seen multiple examples of races using other technologies to achieve FTL. This is an extension of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, if there is infinite diversity, then there are infinite methods of accomplishing the same goal, it is illogical to assume that everyone uses technology that is equally reliant upon the same materials. The Burn as a concept is cool, but the way it was written is stupid
I especially want to point out Species 8472 and Gomtuu. These are races that are or use biological starships, and they are capable of FTL speeds. In order for the Burn to be as important as Discovery makes it out to be, these ships MUST find Dilithium simply to function. Rather, Gomtuu evolved with the capability to travel FTL, it's unlikely that a creature evolved to require gather either Dilithium or Anti-matter. As for Species 8472, they come from a different spatial plane, where life and matter interact very differently from our own and it is unlikely that in their universe, the same material would have to be present in order for them to enter our universe and be capable of traveling at FTL.
I also just remembered that Laas, the Changeling was capable of traveling at FTL speeds without a ship as well. The point being, if FTL is possible as a biological function, then Dilithium is not a necessary component.
The Romulans use a forced quantum singularity to power there D’Deridex class starships. It was mentioned in a couple of TNG episodes and the FOCUS of at least two. No dilithium.
@@RobKMusic I'm not going to say there's NO dilithium in an AQS (or FQS, I've seen it called both) but my point really is that Discovery made this one material an absolute necessity in all forms of FTL, and it has to be that way for their story to work; Dilithium must be a vital component in every FTL or everyone must be using M/AM, there is no other way to make the Burn work. And I don't think the franchise (call it the canon if you like) backs that up.
@@marcusmanchester7095 Also, if using dilithium is necessary to access subspace in FTL drives, wouldn't that mean the burn killed all subspace communications as well? How do they access subspace for the communication devices without it? And if they can still access it, couldn't that method be used for warp drive as well?
I think the "BIG" reveal should've been something like an ancient Iconian gateway, that the crew of KSF Khi'eth could've discovered and try fiddling with it. You know to try and replicate it to replace the need for warp drive, and them doing this could have caused the "BURN".
@Simr Khera it would still be 1000x better and less contrived than a screaming kelpien. They could hand wave it away and say something like "Oh this is an iconian research station and independent of the main gateway network." And I would accept that over "I'm sad, and my sadness makes things goes boom."
i'm still disappointed the Kelpian predator race wasn't secretly another phase of the Kelpian lifecycle, the race would have been a wonderful double niven reference if they'd done that.
@@ManabiLT Kzinti and Caitians are not the same race. Kzinti appeared in TAS "The Slaver Weapon" and were definitely distinct from M'Ress and other Caitians.
@@ManabiLT Kzinti are supposed to be about eight foot tall and straight up eat people, since they are obligate carnivores and make absolutely no distinction between sapient and non-sapient animals when it comes to their food.
7:45 Yea I think some of the disappointment was also due to people were expecting some grand conspiracy behind the Burn, but nope... just a mutated Kelpian that was bombarded by some "strange energies" while in the womb...btw can't wait to hear your thoughts on the new Lower Decks eps:P
if it was a small scale thing and a one off episode sure, but the single thing that destroyed the federation and the big reveal of the season..... booooo
@@hellfish2309 the song was the distress call. It’s just a popular melody Federation-wide, which is galaxy-wide by this time. Like twinkle twinkle little star.
They could just have redesigned the warp drives to use nuclear energy like firsts zephram cocraine warp engine , or something better , but no , they just "gave up"
@@christianrissotto.gordohom3478 they didn't even have to do that they would just use the same singularity cores that the Romulans use without fucking missing a step
@@michaelkeha Yes but didnt the romulan singularities use dilithium as well? as far as i know dilithium is used to stabilize the energy from the reaction of matter/antimatter choke.
This is just one of those sad cases where the fact that something has an explanation doesn't make it any less stupid. The idea of a catastrophic event that prevents or severely impedes warp travel across the galaxy is not bad in itself. But the way it was done is just bad, bad writing. Not sure if it's worse than the magic mushroom drive, but it's up there. Tom Paris' warp 10 shuttle is jealous: they only made one Voyager episode around it. In modern Trek it would've gotten an entire season around it.
Can you start with the pacific garbage patch, or anthropogenic climate change, or the fact that sociopathy is over 20 times more prevalent among CEOs and politicians, or how society let that happen, or something, instead of trying to wreck like the only show in the history of humanity that has ever tried to make people with autism not feel like crap?
@@alakani the value you personally derive from something shouldn't be affected by the fact other people have a different opinion to yours. If you love the show, more power to you. I can't and wouldn't take that away from you. Besides, I don't *hate* Discovery and I'm not trying to wreck anything. Not to mention that, being just a random guy on the Internet, I don't have the power to 'wreck' Discovery even if I wanted. That doesn't mean though that I'm gonna pretend to enjoy what are, in my opinion, some bad writing decisions. You are, of course, free to disagree. Peace.
That was part of the reason it was such a dissapointment. We followed Burnham as she gathered clues and theorized what could it be along with her, only for the answer to be something so outlandish that no one, not even someone inuniverse, could have posibly figure it out. If it was overhyped for 12 episodes.
You mean like the planet of women who appeared out of thin air and killed people one at a time, which turned out to be a poorly-programmed security system from a crashed starship? Or maybe the immortal human who was slowly dying because he couldn't survive outside Earth's atmosphere for more than a few centuries, and for some reason couldn't just go back to Earth? Or maybe that one where "parallel development" was so exact that they had a copy of the Declaration of Independence? Yeah, classic Trek was always so scientifically thorough and well-thought-out...
@@DeaconBlues117 Well if you understand the parallel universe hypothesis at all, like taking 20s to read up on it, then the parallel development episode makes sense......
@@shawnp7313 That had nothing at all to do with the multiversal interpretation of quantum theory. The world in that episode was in _the same universe_ as the Earth that Kirk hailed from, not some multiversal offshoot where the Third World War was so devastating that the planet never recovered from it. Instead, it was based on the concept of parallel development of planets - except that this theory denotes the idea of worlds _similar but not identical_ to Earth developing around other singleton G-type stars, and life evolving on them that is similar to our own (possibly even to the point of primate-equivalents becoming the dominant life form). The theory of parallel development does not extend to societies, and most certainly not to the exact wording of historical documents.
I dislike the idea of how the burn happened, a person's scream of great destroyed countless starships? I would rather it have been some ' screw you ' weapon from the temporal war, particularly if it was one of Starfleets secret projects that showed THEM braking the accords and it was their fault.
This is Kurtzman Track, not even Trek. I doubt more than one or two people in that laugh factory of a writers' room even has an inkling what the Temporal Cold War is.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel seeing as new trek has taken every opportunity to reference enterprise, the temporal cold war, and time travel in general I'm pretty fucking sure the writer's think enterprise was a reboot not a prequel.
I personally don't like that warp drive and dilithium based reactors are still commonly used in the 32nd century. Seems weird to me that a huge galactic power like the federation would be technologicaly stagnant for so long.
The problem is that dilithium is so plentiful, there's very little incentive to invest time and resources into alternatives. That's changing, at least in Star Trek Discovery.
You’d have to assume something came along that was not merely “as good as” warp or warp-based travel, but so much better than it that it would justify the replacement of a well established and perfectly suitable drive system. Technology doesn’t replace older technology just because it is new. It has to be better by enough margin for there to be a reason to adopt it for it to replace it.
@Darth Revan Quantum singularities are used as power sources, as opposed to the matter-antimatter reactors common in the Federation and the Klingon Empire. Dilithium is used to enable warp travel by focusing said energies.
Yeah .... no. More likely is a "No mutated kelpian children allowed" sign. As a side note I don't see how Sukal is going to prosper or even survive on the outside where everyone and their pet hamster has suffered losses and hardships because of him. It is still starfleet we are talking about but that is a severely diminished starfleet with only a fraction of it's former glory/size. If that secret gets out they are not really able to stop violent repercussions.
@@JesusKreist It's weird that you think people would blame the kid. It's even weirder that you think after suffering loss, they wouldn't empathize with the kid who suffered loss making the burn happen.
I think you miss the point. Maybe I’m wrong but once Su’Kal is taken away from the dilithium planet, he won’t be able to cause that effect again. At the very least, if he is still able to render refined dilithium inert, away from the planet he’d have an extremely reduced amount of power and he is a single individual with this unique trait so not really anything anyone needs to worry about on a large scale again. Unless he is intent on returning to the dilithium planet to cause havoc, but that doesn’t seem to match with the character as portrayed so far
@@redapol5678 I understand the point, the joke is that when an incident occurs, especially if it results in damages, most organizations require filling out a “what happened” form, and part of that would be “what steps are taken to prevent this from happening again”, even if it was a one in a million freak accident.
@@LePedant The burn was a violent catastrophe costing millions of lives and caused even more families grievances. No matter how much the humans allegedly have evolved to a point they don't think about revenge (bs btw) that isn't true for other races. The klingons for example. Based on what we know they will have viewed the burn as a targeted coward terrorist attack. Similarly the romulans, cardassians, ... and even ferengi.
An error; the romulan singularity drives did NOT in fact require dilithium to function. So ships with such energy drives was likely spared from "the burn".
The thing that bugs me the most about the Burn is that it only works if everyone in the galaxy is still using dilithium-regulated Warp drives. The Burn occurs almost exactly 1,000 years after the human invention of the warp drive. For contrast, Voyager takes place 300 years after the human invention of Warp drive, and by the end of that show Starfleet is already experimenting heavily with non-Dilithium, Faster-Than-Warp travel. Are the writers trying to tell me that Starfleet, and everyone else in the galaxy, completely abandoned quantum slipstream, transwarp, coaxial warp, whatever the Traveler was doing, the Caretaker Array, artificial wormholes, Paris's unspeakable salamander drive, fluidic space, whatever technology the Voth were using, and anything else they might have come up with in the intervening 700 years? Pretty much everything else in Discovery Season 3 had the same problem, too. The only significant advances I could see were programmable matter, which was probably 50 to 100 years away at the end of Voyager given the state of holographic technology, and personal transporters, which you might be able to convince me would take another 200 years, tops. Jumping the crew of the Discovery 900 years into the future should have been an opportunity to come up with some completely fantastical, unimaginable technologies. Instead we got reconfigurable controls and slightly more convenient ship to surface transportation.
It seems like personal transporters would be a security nightmare as well. How do you avoid crew beaming themselves into another's quarters, or secure sections of the ship either on purpose or by accident? Plus it allows crew to beam on and off the ship at will, as long as they're in range.
Don't forget ships that look like a jacked-up Tesla in space with the secondary hull and nacelles not even connected to the saucer/chevron primary hull. Such stupid aesthetic and design choices on top of everything else. You're absolutely right, though. 50 years away with "programmable matter"? Not even. They had a working grasp of "particle synthesis" by the end of Voyager. They had reverse engineered slipstream, which explicitly did NOT use dilithium, they just couldn't get it to work properly as one Fed ship stranded in an uncharted quadrant. I seriously doubt that with the full resources of the UFP they couldn't have perfected the tech. From the start it was all poorly written inconsistent BS.
At some point very shortly after programmable matter, everyone would have the option for Stargate-style ascention, like Wesley in TNG - and it was already hard enough to depict the inside of the Q continuum
@@The_Lucent_Archangel They came up with tech, but that doesn't mean it's useful to travel long distances. There are many ways to design an aircraft, but there is a reason all long distance aircraft are large planes with jet engines. Helicopters or propeller planes don't work when flying halfway around the world. Also, programmable matter and faster than light travel are two different things. FTL is not possible in our universe, that's why they go into subspace.
Sukal is as special as Burnham... That show is full of unicorns. The one ship that can teleport anywhere. A human with a stable trill symbiont. An engineer who is the sole person who can drive the said ship. A captain who seems to get all the answers with the most minimal of research who is also the unspoken child of one of the most legendary families in Federation history.
Star Trek has always featured unicorns, what do you mean? Worf is the only Klingon in Starfleet, Geordi is essentially the only outwardly disabled individual we really get to know, Data is the only android in Starfleet, hell Sisko is all KINDS of "right place at the right time because the script says he's the Emissary", he's walking talking plot armor because the Prophets already know his role. This is not new, it's just not the stuff you grew up on, and that's fine.
@@TypingHazard Certainly, but the issue nearly all main character in STD are unicorns. Other trek shows generally have between 0 and 2 unicorn, depending on how you'd count, and often times their unicorn isn't really that special, certainly not on the near mythic status most of STD's unicorns fit in. TOS's Unicorn is arguably spock, which is simply the only alien on the ship of an allied planet and in the context of other Trek as mundane of a unicorn there is. TNG had Worf and Data, Worf is again pretty basic case. Data is the first real bordering mythical unicorn on trek. DS9 had Sisko which certainly was mythical level of unicorn. Beyond that not really unless you want to count Worf again. VOY had Seven, more mundane than Sisko but not by much. And Kes, but that was for 2 episodes. ENT had T'Pol and Phlox, those are on the level of Spock and Worf simply for being unique aliens on the ship. And most of those unicorns didn't really have any more special abilities unique to them or some main plot important birthright. Out of all unicorns up till that point Sisko, Seven and Data only truly have unique abilities. And only really Sisko has some unique thing that isn't basically robot powers. Than we get to STD, we have Burnham which not only has some mythical military record, has a mother that is a time altering tech angel, big (formerly unnamed and unknown) sister of Spock. Evil lady from and body double from an alternative universe that was also the emperor there. Engineer that is the only person in the universe that can drive the ship. Guy that's last of his race that can speak and commune to animals. Fish guy that made an interstellar communicator while his species barely invented fire and revolutionized his species after he got picked up by (for him) aliens and came back after becoming a captain. Girl that is the first and only human that can host a Trill. Dude that had a race change and a secret agent. Dude that basically killed all warp with a scream. Before mentioned time altering tech angel that also happened to be the mom of main character. And that's the unicorns I can think of from the top of my head, I wouldn't even remotely surprised if there were more.
@@Anthyrion sadly common, and what is worse, is that the owners will tell the fans to shut up, that is theirs, steal it and try to sell it for money. CBS All Access, Warhammer+, Disney+.
If ya want a head canon: exactly the same but replace the screaming dude with some sort of random dying star, I don’t know. Course, then it’s fairly similar to the Hobus Supernova…
Which is another absurd plot device. If i were in charge of Star Trek, i'd remove all of the kurtzman shows, and the tie-in to abrams film from cannon.. then i'd get some genuinely good writers working on some proper trek.
The J.J. destruction of the Romulan Star Empire while something I find rather silly seems a little more believable than "The Burn". Either way Kurtzman or JarJar, they are both a bunch of pretentious Hollywood Hacks. Trek and Wars and anything you had nostalgia over is dead. Let it go, make something new instead of reanimate corpses for your selfish nostalgia.
@@claudeblue2281 At least the omega particle was well fleshed out and explained. As well as the omega particle being the original matter of the Big Bang and as such has some unique properties. The reasonability of the omega particle is not the same as for instance, a strange planet combined with an oddly supernatural environmentally induced random mutation in a rare polyploidy individual which was triggered by an extreme emotional experience... basically “magic rocks made a chosen one magic and his feeling changed the world”... that doesn’t sound like Trek to me but some fantasy story. Where is the science? 🤷♂️
@@CertifiablyIngame The Dominion should be around. They were far older than the Federation during DS9's Dominion War. Two thousand years according to Weyoun if memory serves.
The Borg were seemingly destroyed or made vastly less powerful, as their ships are in transit constantly (and you need to have your regular warp drive engaged for the Borg transwarp drive, as Seven said one time). The transwarp corridors were completely packed with debris. I’d buy that the Dominion are around and reclaimed territories just like the Chain though.
Found one of the people who priced me out of the house I grew up in, via NIMBYIsm, giving into the demands of sociopathic executives and landlords, not caring that Dorsey convinced DPW to spray homeless people with fire hoses in winter, not even realizing that they didn't shit everywhere before they started getting murdered. A few guys with shitty plastic boxcutters ended civilization as we knew it in real life, snd your lifestyle and attitude are trying to end what little is left
I agree. It is the single most stupidest idea that Kurtzman's Star Trek has created. At least until whatever the threat is in season 4 since it seems to involve a gravitational anomaly. I bet it will be just as stupid or even worse than "The Burn".
How else where they going to make a grossly outdated archaic ship relevant in the far future and by that extension keeping Micheal Burnham the most important person who has ever lived across every reality.
This ending was cliché and incredibly unsatisfying. The plot device of a supernatural child who can’t control their emotions causing immeasurable damage is so overused that I fully expected it as soon as the distress call was identified. It was a disappointing way to wrap up a story with a lot of potential.
It would be different if it was tied into the ascension of a Q type individual. That could of been why the predator species tried to keep the Kelpians primitive, because they endanger the entire galaxy when they ascend... but we would need better writers for that.
Now the Federation has a weapon. Should Section 31 figure out how to duplicate and control this power. Imagine if they could make the dilithium become inert on an opposing ship?
That's a good proposition. But one major challenge is getting it to focus on the targeted dilithium only and not spreading throughout space and damaging their own vessels.
I’m surprised 31 never built more Pegasus-style cloaking devices and use them to, I dunno, fly down into planets and drop off thousands of proton torpedoes down in the mantle or even the core to have them detonate and destroy which ever seat of power they choose. It’s not like there wasn’t a conspiracy to make all volcanoes on the Klingon homeworld to erupt simultaneously
Because I guess time ships don't exist anymore, anywhere. Just like how the spore drive was classified and apparently no other species anywhere in the whole of the multiverse ever figured it out, since there aren't a bunch of ships just popping in and out randomly at any given time.
@@BaconMinion I think because of the significance of the event - it was impossible to erase it, and attempts to remove the burn were successful, but they created an analogue of the Kelvin timeline, I think that it is possible to correct the event within one timeline up to a certain small scale (within the universe) Wesley Crusher could intervene, he does not need ships
"The burn" happened because they wanted to get rid of the Roddenberry vision of an optimistic, positive future. That had to go, to be replaced with the modern taste for a dystopia where everyoen has gone back into isolationist little mini-hells. The fact that it's full of plot holes big enough to drive mammoths through is irrelevant. Like - why did the Federation start to run out of dilithium, when it's established there were MANY older civilisations MANY pof which were as big or bigger, why hadn't they used it all up in their time? Why not just steal or copy the Romulan system which uses a singularity to power their warp drives, not antimatter? And let's just ignore the endless systems that didn;t use warp drive (long range transporters, iconian gateways, the Caretaker displament wave, transwarp conduits, soliton wave, slipstream drive...etc). Hilarious they were sdaying that the Federation never moved on _The same technology for over a thousand years_ - on Earth that is the gap between crude mechanical clocks and quantum computers LOL. And in TNG it was actually established with recompositing technology the crystals in essence had an unlimitted lifetime, and dilithium was nowhere near as precious as it had been in Kirk's era.
The problem isn't whether or not the Burn makes sense, the problem is that they weren't able to build a good story around it. Every Trek show/movie have mistakes or elements that don't make much sense. Do any of the Changeling's abilities make sense? Does it make sense they can change their mass or turn into a space faring creature or fog or even chemical reactions like fire? Does it make sense that they can copy something so perfectly that the most advanced scanners can't tell the difference. Not really. But they built a great story around the Founders and the Dominion and made them great villains.
I think their big problem was trying to resolve both the burn and the chain plots in the same episode, resulting in neither having a satisfactory ending.
The concept of the Burn could have been fine. But an autistic screech destroying all antimatter mediators in a galaxy is just dumb. There's a subjective threshold for every member in the audience beyond which the suspension of disbelief gets turned into eyerolls and sour feelings. The writers of Discovery seem to be committed to blundering past that threshold nearly every episode.
No...it still doesn't. If the "scream" had that effect, then the link between crystals would have caused a" burn" every time a warp core overloaded. This is by far your most "stretched" effort to take a very problematic story line and support it. Of course it makes no sense. Processed dilithium isn't raw material ground up, mixed with other material and cast into something new. The dilithium crystals are cut to specific geometries to serve as reaction modulators. TNG, STO, and Voyager, and several films discuss this many times. You are right about one thing. We didn't know dilithium had a subspace interaction as part of its structure until they needed it as a plot device. No one thought of it before because dilithium could not have a subspace component because subspace is not an existing sublayer but a path through existing layers made possible by creating a warp shell. You wedge through the layers. As a naturally occurring material, dilithium would not have the ability to be between layers of the quantum brane of space-time. It may be able to share energies with different layers but not between them. The entire Omega particle story line would refute the story line for the burn...as well as TNG : A Force of Nature. I would lastly reiterate that the Phoenix did not have access to dilithium but was warp capable.
Well, the Phoenix was also a hell of a lot slower then any other ships we see. With a limited power source and engine design the Phoenix didnt need dilitium. It would have been nice if Enterprise had given us more back story to the Phoenix and its drive and maybe explained it was the Vulcan's that introduced humanity to dilitium.
@@dennisreed6345 the pheonix was a warp ship...that is all that is neccessary. Size doesn't matter. Creating a warp shell does. After that it is only regeneration rate that matters.
honestly would have been better from a story POV if the burn was caused by the method of time travel they implemented. This would also remove any space jesus bullshit as everyone would know it's ultimately Lil Mike's Fault
Yes... yes this would have been awesome. I don't think they'd do that to Burnham, tho it'd be a great irony given her last name. :) Also fk Burnham, worst main cast character imo. She was cool during season 1/2
Glad I haven't watched that series. It absolutely defies my ability to suspend my disbelief. "All dilithium crystals in use explode because of a sad alien."
@@seanmachado7681 It's hardly the first time some weird crap caused something on a massive scale. Look what happened to the Husnock, for instance. Self-proclaimed Trekkies are bashing this, and forget that TOS and TNG are literally FULL of similar events, just not on a galactic scale.
So I'm an old school fan- and I have all the tech manuals etc from "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" on up. Historically speaking- Dilithium is not a part of the Warp Drive per se- Dilithium was used as a reaction moderator in the Matter/Anti-matter reactor- and nothing more. Now I know those books are kinda "Apocrypha" if you will, but it's consistent with what's shown on screen all the way up to Voyager and Enterprise.
Season 3 is a mess and the whole burn event is just beyond my suspension of disbelief. The authors didn't even try to explain what happened with a remotely similar event from the past so that I could say "It's unlikely but possible". The Burn burned itself badly.
The whole invention of dilithium partially existing in subspace strikes me as serving only to justify the Burn. If dilithium is a regulator for matter/antimatter reactions, there's no need for it to have any subspace component.
It's dumb because by the 31st century, why were ships still using 1000 year old propulsion technology? Not slipstream, or transwarp, or even the essentially instant travel temporal drives without the now banned time travel component? Nevermind getting the daft spore drive out of the archives. Hell even if you go with the OG warp cores still being around, why not adopt Romulan style engines afterwards? No dilithium there.
IKR? This is supposed to be almost a thousand years later and they are still using 1000 year old technology for war drive. What about slipstream and transwarp? Did the writers even watch Star Trek besides the TNG movies? And the Romulans used singluarity cores for their warp drives. And they have time travel, so they couldn't go back in the past and obtain dilithium from a planet that won't be discovered to have dilitihium for years? This is why DISCO is just so damn stupid.
Soooooooooo many plotholes yea this was stupid he killed millions or billions of people sooo the who plot was stupid and I stopped watching the show...
Dilithium is used to regulate matter/antimatter reactions. So yeah, ships using M/AM that had their dilithium go all weird would basically have a warp core breach. However, this would NOT affect things like the Romulan singularity drive. It is very possible to make warp drives that don't use dilithium, you just need a different power source other than M/AM.
I thought The Burn was great, but the cause was ridiculous. The writers should have made The Burn by Omega Molecule experimentations, which we learned was extremely dangerous from Voyager. At least that makes more sense. The damage to subspace Omega creates could have taken an entire season plot to try and fix it.
I’m not a fan of the “Kurtsmanverse”, the whole thing is driving me nuts.... a fungus driven craft.....a scream destroys dilithium.....Picard reduced to a sniveling shell of the iconic leader he was. You couldn’t rationalize to convince me there is anything good about the latest trek. But I’ve always liked your videos, keep up the good work man!
The lead character is a strong and complex character and is very well portrayed by Soniqua Martin. S1 an S2 were both fairly decent imo but S3 was pretty bad.
Couldn't agree more. I enjoyed the first season but it soon became apparent this is not Star Trek but 'The Michael Burnham Show' - that is, a show more or less centred around one character rather than an entire crew of diverse people with entire episodes devoted to developing them. There are of course a lot of characters who do develop but it lacks the lovely combination of depth and playfulness of previous Treks. I won't be watching season 4, I couldn't even bear season 3. Fair play to those who like it, I've seen much worse.
Dumb stuff happened in Trek all the time, but the new era just doesn’t forget about it at the end of the episode. They build whole seasons around silly stuff instead of discarding the concept after an hour. And I am into it. One time in TNG a guy named Kevin got sad and wiped out tens of billions of sentient beings in an instant. Voyager got stranded in the delta quadrant because a banjo playing rock wanted to see if he could have sex with the people on board. TOS has a big purple force field surrounding the galaxy that might turn you into a god if you go near it. Trek has always had extremely silly and campy concepts that have huge repercussions. Also Picard’s depiction in the new series is near-perfect. Calling him “sniveling” makes me feel like you don’t empathize with people with trauma and personal demons. He’s never been depicted as a paragon of strength, just as someone who tries to find the courage to do the right thing in the end.
Picard what?! You obviously didn’t pay attention to his role in TNG, he was portrayed as a person of strength and leadership, especially in the early episodes. That’s why his crew respected him and wanted to follow him to the end of the galaxy.
So, this is replicatable right? Now that Starfleet knows it's possible they probably don't need a screaming child, people could set up dilithium bombs or guns which send out burn waves and disrupt any warp cores... So warp travel is even more dangerous than ever, unless you can somehow create failsafe warp reactors.
It's very apparent why the Burn occurred, and who is responsible. It's all Burnham's fault. She meddled, and liberated the Kelpiens. Once again, meddled in interstellar affairs. And because of that, Kelpiens were out there. So she is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths at least. And instead of anybody putting the pieces together, especially after having access to her complete service record, she failed upwards.
like this angle. it could have really challenged this series weird obsession with Lil Mike always being correct. Additionally it would play well with the theme of Predetermined destiny/the Cosmic Order being disrupted. The Grey area Starfleet hates to skirt....That some may have to die for many to live
The Hack, Kurtzman simply needed a flimsy premise so that he could convert the Andromeda storyline into the Star Trek universe. Kurtzman is not a good writer. He steals characters and plot ideas from indie game developers. Kurtzman is not a good person. Don't be like Kurtzman.
*at this point M NIGHT SHAMALAN is a genius and that is terrifying to say* considering we all thought he was ROCK BOTTOM. I can’t believe it got worse 🤮
There could've been such an easy explanation, what happend, that made all FTL journeys impossible: Omega Particles. Somebody could've experimented with them and failed so that Warp Speed travel isn't possible anymore.
@@BirthquakeRecords Yes, i wrote it before he mentioned it. But it's still a better explanation than the "burn". Hmm. Does "burn" stands for Michael BURNham?
To have the Burn be caused by the Omega Particle would mean the current writers would have to know something about Star Trek. That's asking far too much from them.
@@KyleClements I know. I respect fans, who are saying, that they like STD, but i seriously don't understand them. I was willing to give the show a chance, even that a black female first officer sounded like the usual SJW stuff. And after Season 1 i never watched a complete episode of this. Only reviews and even that was enough to give me headeache
Ronald D. Moore said that Zefram Cochrane's Pheonix used either a nuclear fission or fusion reactor to power its warp drive. This makes sense as the Pheonix was basically a modified nuclear missile and dilithium cannot be found on Earth.
(Paraphrasing in part, as I can't find the quote online) "Transwarp corridors are a deathtrap, tachyon solar sails are slow as shit, and unless you've got some benamite, which nobody does, we can't use quantum slipstream."
K, well, they could shield an entire planet but couldn't power faster than light travel without dilithium. Also they somehow had the technology to literally transport through space and time, yet relied on what would have been a primitive form of interstellar travel by comparison. I don't think power is a problem, just bad writing by people who sort of looked at memory alpha to figure out what star trek was about. The rest they made up and spent time on making mockey Spock the bestest evar because she's black.
Quantum singularities (like the Romulan Warbird). You could probably build a reactor that facilitates a matter-antimatter reaction without using dilithium, too, but i suppose a purely energy field based solution would be less stable.
Thing is, the research and "science" was there, just not translated to the screen in full, this topic was inspired by the official article covering it. Still got some issues, mind.
@@LePedant It seems you didn’t understand my original comment. At the moment in the video, he’s talking about REFINING dilithium… That’s a requirement to use it for warp travel. I’m referring to SYNTHESIZING dilithium so they don’t have to mine it at all. “Synthesize” as in make more through some fabrication process. It boggles my mind that in 900 years they invented “reprogrammable matter”, but didn’t figure out a way to synthesize/create dilithium and still depend on mining it.
@@spencerdiniz Wait wait wait? You are complaining because you feel like they should have been able to synthesize a non-synthesizable material because of time? They established some things can't be synthesized in Star Trek. Latium is another one, along with Di-lithium.
The child was able to scream across subspace because he is the chosen one foretold in the prophecy, the one who will destroy the Sith and bring balance to the verse.
The problem with the entire concept, is that dilithium, while an important part of Starfleet and other species engine designs, it's just a part of one mechanism, for one particular way of achieving FTL travel. It's like if suddenly gasoline became inert in 1960. We certainly had other ways to power vehicles, such as electricity and steam. They wouldn't have been as efficient as gasoline, but would have enabled society to function until they did become more efficient. There were quite a few alternative technologies that were brought up in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, even Enterprise. From space folding transporters, to iconian gateways, to funding a way to make the Soliton Wave technology work.
Trying to make dilithium make sense is fun! what if the matter/antimatter reaction generates immense energy and the warp engines dump it into the dilithium. Since the dilithium exists in both realms it can be thought of as a lens of sorts. the warp engine focuses and shapes the energy it's dumping into subspace, generating he warp bubble. Trying to shunt an immense amount of energy into a subspace lens to generate a shape on the other side would require a lot of computer power to stay on top of it. In addition to what you said in this video, if this subspace lens went from clear to opaque, all the immense energy that should have gone into subspace would stay inside regular space and then the ship's electrons and nuclei decide go separate ways.
The fact that Romulans mine dilithium doesn't mean singularity warp drives require it. The Romulans are most likely mining it as an export commodity to maintain leverage over vassal species.
The universe written by the writers of Discovery is as good as my singing under the shower. Somewhat acceptable to me but horrible to others. What ever explanation there will be, Discovery will never be a part of "my" sense of Star Trek. "Picard" was sadly not was I was expecting for but it's far more "Star Trek" than Discovery will ever be.
That's really pushing it considering STP was just as shit as STD, if not more insulting since they ruined not only Picard as a character but also Seven and Itcheb along with other things. Topping it off with a shitty Mass Effect ripoff at the end.
@@louisalectube Really? A diplomat of the Star Fleet, one of the best captains of the Federation that saved Star Fleet multiple times gets reduced to a dementia ridden old man who is always yelled at by smug women isn't a ruined character? Did you even watch TNG before or did you just jump into STP?
The burn is one of those things I just accept happened and quietly try move past it. What still bugs me is the melody that every race in the galaxy seemed to know somehow being the crashed Kelpian ships distress call. Was that transmitted through subspace with the burn?
So... The Federation forgot about the Fusion-powered shuttlecraft from the 24th Century? And the Soliton Wave? And Artificial Wormholes that were nearly done by DS9? Or Transwarp Conduits and drives? And what about Romulan Singularity Warp Cores? And Nobody Reverse Engineered or Rediscovered how The Borg and Iconians can teleport through space without a ship? Heck nobody even tried Tachyon Sailing for goodness sake? There were so many alternatives to Dilithium warp cores even in TNG/DS9/VOY, and that's supposed to be centuries before The Burn! Did the writers of STD even watch Star Trek?
From memory, mine not memory alpha, he used some kind of fusion cell and barely went FTL. The dilithium seemed to be a stabiliser for the M/AM reaction, without it a warp reactor doesn't work all that well. Another fairly well reasoned hypothesis is that they used their piezoelectric properties to convert the M/AM reaction into electricity to power everything.
@@andrewbutton2039 the Phoenix being fusion powered makes sense but I’ve heard that official sources state it was powered by M/AM...if you can believe some people in the woods can find or manufacture and store Store antimatter. Fusion power enabling low warp factors is consistent with the TOS romulan Warburg being much slower than the Enterprise abs Scott saying that ship had only ‘impulse’ power.
Good question. Also if dilithium is so rare, how does waiting for a species to achieve ftl to make first contact make any sense? Wouldn't there be many inhabitable worlds, perhaps even entire solar systems, that completely lack the element? And if Starfleet and the rest of the galaxy can't make ftl work without dilithium, how could any species ever be expected to achieve it on their own first? The Burn not only makes no sense in how it happened, but it also exposes elitism and foolishness with the very idea of the Prime Directive. Have the bad luck to be born in an area with no dilithium, and thus no ability to ever develop stable and safe ftl? Well, it looks like you'll have to remain ignorant about the galactic community for "your own good."
My biggest issue with Star Trek Discovery now every season now is a Galaxy ending disaster. During its run in Star Trek next generation they never ran across any species that was capable of doing that at a whim. It was always something that would affect the federation but not destroy it
Did the writers change the lore theory behind the use of dilithium? I used to have a copy of the Starfleet Manual and the technical manual on the Enterprise D (both from late 90s I think) And I seem to recall that somewhere in there it was explained that Dilithium is the only "matter" substance that is transparent to "anti-matter" allowing the antimatter stream in a warp core to be focused onto the matter stream allowing the safe reaction of the 2. Can anyone confirm this?
i read that too, the dilithium in the warp reactor was exposed to elmag. radiation, what allowed it to mix matter and antimatter and make warp plasma, which was transported to the warp nacelles. there the interaction of the warp plasma and the verterium cortenide in the warp colis created the warp effect.
That's one of the issues with Star Trek canon, if it's not on screen, then it doesn't get treated as canon by future writing. The best case is that it gets used as inspiration, like Lower Deck's USS Titan. Going forwards, they have said that anything the release in any media is canon, but they've already skewed that too.
Then I'm very sorry for your headcanon, as it's now different from the official timeline. All this happens/happened/will happen in the so-called "Prime Timeline", home of all the other Star Trek TV series as well.
@@DeaconBlues117 People always forget that the prime timeline was destroyed in Enterprise when the Xindi probe did an interplanetary 911 and killed millions of humans that lived pre-TNG. That undoubtedly changed the timeline and all subsequent instalments post Enterprise are the after effects of the temporal Cold War causing havoc on the timeline. Thus, making cannon inconsistent as the time lines are continuing to diverge. The Red Angel story arc is but one example of the timeline starting to break apart... lol, anyway the in all seriousness the prime timeline does with the temporal Cold War in Enterprise. Everything else has been parallel timelines. It doesn’t have to be said explicitly, it’s an obvious conclusion of Enterprise’s narrative with regard to the rest of the franchise. There is room to save the franchise but it would take epic writing. Something STD or Trek doesn’t have at the moment.
@@DeaconBlues117 I argue that it's not, since it utilizes too many major changes from the official timeline, and it takes a lot of inspiration from the Kelvin timeline. CBS can say whatever it wants, but it's far too inconsistent to make sense with established content.
@@ManicPandaz I don't know if the prime timeline is "destroyed", but perhaps it's simply where the bar is set and other timelines are trying to stay as close to it as possible? Could be a driving force behind the temporal cold war, protecting the prime timeline at critical points of divergence (such as the Xindi probe attack). If so it allows Discovery to get away with many of its plot inconsistencies while also "claiming" to be part of the prime timeline as it's just another divergence. Just a theory, the writing in Discovery leaves a lot to be desired and makes this more difficult than needed.
@@Ragefor3Dayz CBS can "say whatever it wants" because CBS, as owner of the IP, *defines* canon. You're free to disagree, I suppose, but that's your headcanon, not the official timeline any more than someone's AO3 Cap/Bucky slashfic is official Marvel canon. As for "inconsistencies", if things looking like they "always" have is your marker, there's no way TOS and DS9 are in the same universe. Starships move differently, weapons work differently, the Enterprise hit warp 14 in one TOS episode but now warp 10 is an absolute universal speed limit...
Anyone remember there was a point in TNG where all ships were forced to go under warp 5 due to tears in subspace or something like that? Why not integrate that plot line into the burn instead of what we were given instead? From what I remember that plot was kind of swept under the rug, but it could’ve been great to see the repercussions. Not the best explanation and would need to be delved deeper but it’s at least leaps beyond what STD tried to do
To summarize... A kid injected with Dilithium DNA to survive on a planet filled with dilithium and become an Earth Bender, he scream and caused the entire universe of dilithium to explode...except the planet his on...
Even assuming that the planet amplified the scream, there still is the matter of the inverse square law. Unless the energy was on the magnitude of a supernova which is probably impossible the inverse square law must not apply. Since the inverse square law is a matter of geometry the only way I can see of avoiding it would be that the subspace component of dilithium crystals are all linked together in some way (some form of filament between them) and thus the "burn" energy just follows the filament and does not spread out all over space and this would negate the inverse square law. This theory presents an interesting possibility for future writers since in a battle your ship's dilithium crystals and the enemy's ship dilithium crystals are connected in subspace and it should be possible to send something nasty from your ship to the enemy ship down this connection.
In my opinion, the lack of forethought by the writers of discovery is exactly why it shouldn't have been made or "made cannon". Now that this ridiculous catastrophe has been written into the lore of trek then it really screws up any future stories that involve FTL travel unless you use the ridiculous spore drive. Dont get me wrong, I liked season one but season two seemed to start stretching things.and I like all trek not just 1 or 2 facets or franchises.
A magic planet made of space rock fuel and an explosion that almost destroyed civilization as a whole? All caused by a kid who had a temper tantrum? That makes sense?
Thank you for taking the time to explain this. Also the more I learn about Stat Trek discovery the less I actually want to watch it, what a stupid reason...
Of course, they forgot one thing...while the speed of light isn't a limiting factor, distance has shown to be a problem with subspace communications. The Voyager for instance couldn't communicate with Earth for much of its trip. So no, still not buying it. They may have used an existing mechanism within Trek, but still stupid.
It was even a major plot point in the season that the Burn occurred everywhere simultaneously. Starfleet couldn't triangulate the source because it didn't propagate, it was just as if someone briefly unchecked the "does dilithium work?" checkbox in the universe's settings.
@@SabertoothSeal Is that correct? Wasn't a plot point the fact that Burnham (of course) discovered that there was a billionth-of-a-billionth time-lag for some of the ships, and that's how they triangulated The Burn's point of origin?
@@astralplane6182 I've forgotten the details; I thought there was something on the seed ship that pointed the way to them. But if what you're saying is true that I'm even more disappointed than I was before!
@@SabertoothSeal Which is ironic because in the 24th century they could track subspace signals fairly easily. Assuming the exponential development of technology, even with this explanation, that was a single point of origin and should have easily been tracked.
I'm confused why the Romulans didn't take over the quadrant. Singularity engines don't seem to need dilithium. Its a non replicated resource meaning that it is quite valuable and finite. Seems like its an easy way for the Romulans to make money, explaining the mines.
Watched Discovery right up until that moment, yet still somehow kept going.. then they had the turbolift fight - the "internal open space of the starship is that of a small nation, just an empty void of space, nothing in it, despite of the ship not actually being all that big. Turbolift just flies through a giant empty void inside a spaceship. That's when the show lost me, that exact moment.
The Burn plot was one of the biggest let-downs in all of sci-fi. Was it a plot by The Dominion? The Borg's revenge for what Janeway did to them? A new enemy unleashing a new weapon? No, it was caused by some mentally challenged alien. I had not seen a let-down like that since it was revealed meatballs with teeth was literally eating the past in The Langoliers.
After 120yrs, Discovery should’ve either encountered a massive Romulan Star Empire or everyone using blackhole reactors instead of antimatter warp cores, after a massive rebellion or civil war between Romulans and their “subjects”. (Romulans use black holes to power their ships)
The notion that dilithium crosses into subspace was covered in a non-Canon Star Trek novel from years ago. I'm trying to remember which one it was, but I'm suspecting that it _Prime Directive_ .
Let's not try to justify what is a bad plot: 1. The explosion should have affected reactors on planets as well, which apparently did not happen. 2. The genetic mutation to live in subspace is illogical because genes live in normal space, it's like saying an individual change from a 3-dimensional being to a 4-dimensional one. 3. Only refined dilithium exploded, so natural dilithium should still be abundant according to Tom Paris, who said "it’s found everywhere." 4. The Federation shouldn't have collapsed solely due to difficulties in space transport, as long-range communications are well-established. 5. Alien races like the Romulans do not use dilithium, so The Burn shouldn't have been catastrophic for everyone. A recovery would have been quick at the very least. 6. Dilithium can be regenerated according to a discovery by Spock, so there shouldn't be a shortage of this resource. It just not make any sense.
@@Marinealver or some species messing around with banned Omega particles. Regardless which other more realistic in cannon options (subspace destroying particles, time travel shenanigans, wars, supernova's, divine intervention, etc) they could've chose from for the story to explain the burn, they went with a mutant screaming alien... smh...
@@Greylan Omega particles wouldn't have worked anyways, given they destroy the ability to warp PERIOD, AND destroy subspace comms as well. But all you apparent lore nerds forget that.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 Those were just examples and they could've used something similar to the particles that was discovered/invented before the discovery's jump to the future that may've been similar or based on the containment device Seven constructed for the Omega episode that could've failed and resulted in the catastrophe. And once again any of them would've worked better story wise and been more believable than a "screaming mutant alien" on one planet somehow causing instabilities in Dylithium throughout the quadrant. But feel free to white knight for the show/poor story writing if you feel the need.
Actually if remember the Romulan ships didnt use dilithium. they used a micro-singularity for power. so they shouldn't have been affected by the Burn at all.
Mutation is like in dnd and you roll the dice. The rarity within rarity is rolling a natural 20 8 times in a row on a d20. It can be done I did it once years ago. But never since then.
It would have been better if The Burn had been the intentional or unintentional result of a weapon. Designed by any number of races in a bid for more power, Klingon, Carcassonne, Borg, Species 8427, or even Section 31.
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There seems to be some confusion as to whether or not this is canon or my own head-canon, so here is the inspiration for this video about the official behind the scenes reasoning that went into the Burn: intl.startrek.com/news/the-science-behind-discoverys-burn . Where I speculate or make assumptions, I point out in the video, notably the "resonance of Dilithium" as seen in TNG's S2E15 "Pen Pals", hope this helps clarify :)
"scientific" or not, the very idea is rancid garbage.
Were I the showrunner and I was handed a script like that...I would have tossed it in the recycle bin immediately, hoping it would find it's true home as a component of "bathroom tissue".
@@seanmachado7681 What a lovely attempt at the empathy and spirit of inclusion and compromise we learned from TNG
Cannon or not wouldn't mean nothing to me. I just enjoy a good dialog without that, which you are providing @Certifiably Ingame 🙌😎
@@seanmachado7681 I was shocked when i watched the episode that revealed this on a flight. This is lazy, nonsensical writing. These writers were clearly not hired based on ability.
@@alakani TNG was a good *TV show*, especially after season 3. There is not, has not, and likely NEVER WILL BE any Life Lessons.
ST of ANY VARIANT is a science fiction entertainment product. Even TOS for all the social commentary was a TV show described as "wagon train to the stars" which could be *cheaply made* per Roddenberry.
GOOD STORIES do not need 'compromise'. You can write ABOUT compromise but your story should NOT HAVE PLOT HOLES so big you can put the station from DS9 though them.
A bad ridiculous plotline makes a bad story.
Alien cries, dilithium blows up everywhere...alien cries later on, ships nearby don't blow up. Also, dilithium apparently changed from a control item that lasted years to a resource that is consumed like fuel.
LaForge even explains to Scotty that in TNG era they can prevent the dilithium from breaking down so it lasts indefinitely
And it regenerates too, thanks to a clever 23rd century Vulcan.
@@christophernemeth421 Didn’t Spock more or less invent recrystallising dilithium in Star Trek IV? Obviously that was refined by TNG so you didn’t even have to remove the crystals from the warp core.
@@mb2000 you are right. I forgot about that.
@@mb2000 and even then there’s discussions of mining colonies, Voyager needs to resupply. Maybe recrystallising takes the consumption down to 1% but it’s still used-up. And even if individual ships hardly ever needed new dilithium, there’s always ships getting destroyed and new ones being built.
I'd like it more if was the aftermath of the temporal cold war
That makes much more sense. If something was going to break the universe it'd be that
The temporal Cold War was an idiotic story idea, imo, just like all of ST:D and the Kurtz’verse. But that’s really just my opinion. I grew watching the original series, movies, TNG, and DS9 but the franchise took a nose dive in ST:V and Ent when they took neat ideas and and screwed them up completely. But hey if you like those or the current stuff that’s great, I’m truly happy people enjoy it. I just don’t.
@@tarn1135 I enjoyed the idea of the Temporal Cold War, but the execution left a lot to be desired. The revelation that they hadn't really decided who Future Guy was sums it up. How do you _not_ have that aspect decided before you start using the character? And it being future Archer doesn't make _any_ sense.
@@tarn1135 The Temporal stuff in Enterprise was pretty bad because it came off as the writers and producers throwing a bone and claiming to be furthering the narrative universe even though they were doing a prequel series. Can't have your cake and eat it too. This trashy Nu Trek by contrast takes the cake, because on top of the Temporal Cold War they heave some cop out about why the Feds or other powers didn't just jump back in time and prevent this stupid cataclysm.
They sent Daniels back to nudge Enterprise along and prevent the Sphere Builders from winning, but can't do the same thing for this idiotic "Burn" nonsense because reasons.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel Another problem was, that they ignored some Voyager Episodes. If there is a disturbance in the temporal flow, the Temporal Agency sends a ship to correct this incident
I thought the reason for "the Burn" was incredibly weak. An awful choice of reasoning. When I first heard of the premise of all warp drives going bust and the Burn, I immediately thought of Omega. One of my favourite Voyager episodes.. That it was a Crybaby with mutations was awfully weak and I despise it. If the writers wanted to subvert expectations, they went waaay too far. If they wanted a Kelpian arc in Season 3 for Saru to experience, it should and COULD have been done in a different way. I think the Burn was a bunch of BS. I enjoyed the premise of a Federation in shambles and the mystery of the Burn, but Su'Kal was incredibly weak.
Yes, repairing subspace from Omega damage would have been a stretch, but Omega still has enough mystery to be played with. Instead of wrecking subspace, there could have been a "lighter", but further reaction due to an experiment gone wrong, that made dilithium react. It could have e.g merely been the Omega "shockwave" without the actual "explosion" at the center. And Discovery/Federation had to stop the scheduled repeat of the experiment..
Or something else.. but Su'Kal was weak and bummed me out as the "cause".
They had a believable and KNOWN excuse for a scenario like "The Burn", from all the way back in the days of STNG.
The episode Force of Nature spoke of how Warp Travel damaged Sub-Space.
That could have easily been expanded upon, and used as a legitimate reason for why Warp is dangerous and unreliable
this
@@MrTurbowhitey Boy did they backtrack on that one ^^ It was never mentioned again in DS9, Voyager, etc.. I watched that episode not too long ago. That it wasn't "explained away" to the viewer was kinda sad.. Instead they went with a "Let's just forget that ever happened"
Not even a little dropped line of "Since the ecofriendly Warp update to prevent the subspace damage this and that.."
Discovery could have fixed that.. "Commander Burnham, a few years before the Dominion War Starfleet and the other Alpha quadrant powers had adapted warp drives to not damage subspace. You wouldn't know that, but your theory doesn't add up. We knew about the phenomenon you just accused Starfleet of. It was solved after your departure to the future."
But naah.. Su'Kal. :D
They could have easily thrown in the Kelpians as well. Have them conduct some wacky experiment with dilithium to proove their value to the Federation as a potential member
@@fabianfeilcke7220 I think they wanted Saru to have a parental/father figure story.. Sure. Just don't make the kid the cause of the Burn XD
I didn’t know unrefined dilithium ore was still intact and usable, that’s nice. Now you just have to figure out how to go into a subspace realm entirely made up of dilithium
Or figure out how to give a subspace component to ordinary matter.
I had the impression that all dilithium refined or not that was not actively regulating power was not destroyed. The explosions were unregulated power as in matter antimatter reactions or a singularity implosion and any dilithium not in use was just fine. Basically the sympathetic vibration simply interfered with the ability to regulate power.
I would also suspect that dilithium was not the only way to regulate power, just the most compact and lowest mass method of doing so perhaps to the point of other methods only being suitable with stationary reactors.
Also, it is the warp plasma in the nacelles that create the warp field which is consistent with our theories of the Alcubierre drive, warp plasma has been shown to be stable in containers on both Enterprise and Voyager, we saw a warp capable shuttle on The Motion Picture which only had disposable nacelles not a reactor, life support pods seem to travel FTL to reach habitable planets, moons and asteroids and normal shuttles also travel distances that would require FTL, yes I know the runabouts had reactors but it's all the other shuttles I'm referencing. I suspect these low warp vehicles used stored warp plasma. We have a precedence for this as we had small steam locomotives without boilers to push and pull cars around in a rail yard, these used a large vacuum insulated de-gas bottle to hold steam filled from a stationary boiler. Tge same coukd be true with low warp escape pods and shuttles. I would expect that post burn FTL travel would be on low warp ships with large storage containers that stored warp plasma from stationary reactors at least till they determined that using dilithium appeared safe again. I had hoped to see an old ship that was like that, with huge tanks.
wasnt there some mention of comets going FTL due to dilithium content?
@@johnwang9914 there’s also the fact that Zefram Cochrane’s Phoenix was able to achieve warp not using dilithoum but using a nuclear reaction from a nuclear missile… so yes the dilithoum Burn kinda makes sense if you view Dilithium’s subspace component as being roughly analogous to reaction of Plutonium
@@DancingRasputin Which is another reason why I think low warp by bottled warp plasma from stationary reactors was possible. Zefram Cochrane could've slowly accumulated warp plasma with energy from say nuclear reactors over a long period of time for the short warp flight.
I doubt the nuclear core of the nuclear weapon would be used for power except perhaps to seed a Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactor which would produce it's own nuclear fuel from the wastes from mining of pretty much anything, literally from rocks, quite suitable for a post apocalyptic world.
I think the analogy is more akin to the silicon transistor or diode which was the latest technology of the 60's when Star Trek TOS was created, dilithium only regulated power. There's no need for dilithium to participate in the actual generation of power which we know are matter antimatter reactions with the Federation and an artificial singularity with the Romulans, both methods we already have the actual math for without any McGuffins. There's no need for dilithium to have anything to do with subspace except for the Kelpian scream to somehow propagate FTL but even subspace would not be fast enough to explain the simultaneous burn however the mycelium network would be fast enough so there are mechanisms in lore that can, it's just not subspace.
All the screens just have this Omega Symbol with a little volume speaker icon in the middle Captain?
Oh no, that means a shouty Kelpian, we're all doomed
I loved the build up to the revelation of it. Sadly I felt the Burn once they revealed it was a screaming kelpian. Lol
But your videos are always awesome. Keep up the good work Rick.
S3 really shit the bed IMO...Wasted a perfect opportunity to have another season of epic battles with the emerald chain and to delve deeper into Section 31 in favour of a screaming kelpian man-baby using the force to blow up dilithium and to harp on Adira not being a girl anymore (which they could have tied neatly into the fact that she's a trill symbiont that has lived many lives as many genders but didn't) ...Not sure I'm going to be tuning into S4 with the same amount of loyalty or enthusiasm as with previous seasons or at all TBH.
A screaming Kelpian in his "safe space" nonetheless.
I felt the same about series 1 and 2. The stakes were high, I was interested. And then the resolution was terrible.
@@RobKMusic the funny thing about that is that precisely that "safe space" is what left that Kelpian unprepared to confront death.
@ LMAO. A biological adult whose tantrum destroyed civilization, kept in a naive, child-like state from existing in a "safe space", unable to independently transition to, accept or function in the reality of the real world. Sounds about right. At least the writers are consistent.
I've pointed this out before, but for the Burn to be as important as it became in Discovery, a few things have to be true.
1) Dilithium MUST be an absolutely vital component in ANY and ALL methods of generating power for warp drive. We don't actually see the reactors for most races, so we're all assuming that most or all races use Matter/Anti-Matter Reactors, but the reality is, even in the Alpha Quadrant we've only seen Dilithium being used in this specific manner in Federation ships and Klingon ships. We never see what any other races use to generate power.
1a) This also assumes that any other use of Dilithium beyond regulating M/AM reactions will be as catastrophic if the Dilithiium goes inert
1b) Romulan mining of Dilithium simply means that it's an important resource, it does not mean that it's being used in an Aritifical Quantum Singularity drive, nor does it mean that an AQS is the only technology that the Romulans use for power generation. The fact of the matter is, the AQS has never been described in enough detail to make an assumption as to what components are necessary. It could be that M/AM reactors aren't sufficiently powerful for a ship that is 1.5 Kilometers long, and must be capable of shielding or cloaking itself AND simultaneously traveling at warp 9.6. That does not mean that smaller Romulan ships use an AQS and it does not mean that they don't also utilize M/AM reactors.
2) It assumes that every implementation of FTL is functionally similar to the Federation's implementation of Warp drive, and we've already seen multiple examples of races using other technologies to achieve FTL. This is an extension of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, if there is infinite diversity, then there are infinite methods of accomplishing the same goal, it is illogical to assume that everyone uses technology that is equally reliant upon the same materials.
The Burn as a concept is cool, but the way it was written is stupid
I especially want to point out Species 8472 and Gomtuu. These are races that are or use biological starships, and they are capable of FTL speeds. In order for the Burn to be as important as Discovery makes it out to be, these ships MUST find Dilithium simply to function. Rather, Gomtuu evolved with the capability to travel FTL, it's unlikely that a creature evolved to require gather either Dilithium or Anti-matter. As for Species 8472, they come from a different spatial plane, where life and matter interact very differently from our own and it is unlikely that in their universe, the same material would have to be present in order for them to enter our universe and be capable of traveling at FTL.
I also just remembered that Laas, the Changeling was capable of traveling at FTL speeds without a ship as well. The point being, if FTL is possible as a biological function, then Dilithium is not a necessary component.
The Romulans use a forced quantum singularity to power there D’Deridex class starships. It was mentioned in a couple of TNG episodes and the FOCUS of at least two. No dilithium.
@@RobKMusic I'm not going to say there's NO dilithium in an AQS (or FQS, I've seen it called both) but my point really is that Discovery made this one material an absolute necessity in all forms of FTL, and it has to be that way for their story to work; Dilithium must be a vital component in every FTL or everyone must be using M/AM, there is no other way to make the Burn work. And I don't think the franchise (call it the canon if you like) backs that up.
@@marcusmanchester7095 Also, if using dilithium is necessary to access subspace in FTL drives, wouldn't that mean the burn killed all subspace communications as well? How do they access subspace for the communication devices without it? And if they can still access it, couldn't that method be used for warp drive as well?
I think the "BIG" reveal should've been something like an ancient Iconian gateway, that the crew of KSF Khi'eth could've discovered and try fiddling with it. You know to try and replicate it to replace the need for warp drive, and them doing this could have caused the "BURN".
Chef's kiss.
@Simr Khera it would still be 1000x better and less contrived than a screaming kelpien. They could hand wave it away and say something like "Oh this is an iconian research station and independent of the main gateway network." And I would accept that over "I'm sad, and my sadness makes things goes boom."
i'm still disappointed the Kelpian predator race wasn't secretly another phase of the Kelpian lifecycle, the race would have been a wonderful double niven reference if they'd done that.
I just want the Kzinti to officially be part of Star Trek again. I want giant sassy cat people, tossing Klingons about like rag-dolls
@@weldonwin Commander T'Ana, the chief medical officer of the Cerritos, is a Caitin and in _Lower Decks_.
@@ManabiLT Kzinti and Caitians are not the same race. Kzinti appeared in TAS "The Slaver Weapon" and were definitely distinct from M'Ress and other Caitians.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel Oh yeah, I forgot they showed up separately.
@@ManabiLT Kzinti are supposed to be about eight foot tall and straight up eat people, since they are obligate carnivores and make absolutely no distinction between sapient and non-sapient animals when it comes to their food.
7:45 Yea I think some of the disappointment was also due to people were expecting some grand conspiracy behind the Burn, but nope... just a mutated Kelpian that was bombarded by some "strange energies" while in the womb...btw can't wait to hear your thoughts on the new Lower Decks eps:P
if it was a small scale thing and a one off episode sure, but the single thing that destroyed the federation and the big reveal of the season..... booooo
Also that stupid ‘song’ thing never really got explained or justified its inclusion in the writing
Lower Decks is based
@@hellfish2309 the song was the distress call. It’s just a popular melody Federation-wide, which is galaxy-wide by this time. Like twinkle twinkle little star.
“Does the burn make sense?”
TLDR - No..
They could just have redesigned the warp drives to use nuclear energy like firsts zephram cocraine warp engine , or something better , but no , they just "gave up"
@@christianrissotto.gordohom3478 they didn't even have to do that they would just use the same singularity cores that the Romulans use without fucking missing a step
@@michaelkeha Yes but didnt the romulan singularities use dilithium as well? as far as i know dilithium is used to stabilize the energy from the reaction of matter/antimatter choke.
This is just one of those sad cases where the fact that something has an explanation doesn't make it any less stupid.
The idea of a catastrophic event that prevents or severely impedes warp travel across the galaxy is not bad in itself. But the way it was done is just bad, bad writing. Not sure if it's worse than the magic mushroom drive, but it's up there. Tom Paris' warp 10 shuttle is jealous: they only made one Voyager episode around it. In modern Trek it would've gotten an entire season around it.
Can you start with the pacific garbage patch, or anthropogenic climate change, or the fact that sociopathy is over 20 times more prevalent among CEOs and politicians, or how society let that happen, or something, instead of trying to wreck like the only show in the history of humanity that has ever tried to make people with autism not feel like crap?
Thank you for pointing out the utter bullshit that is in this pathetic ass excuse for writing!
@@alakani WTF are you talking about? AFAICT Barclay had Asperger's (like me) and anyway, how you feel is up to you.
@@alakani Saying the writing of the show is bad doesn't impact the autism-positive character in any way.
@@alakani the value you personally derive from something shouldn't be affected by the fact other people have a different opinion to yours. If you love the show, more power to you. I can't and wouldn't take that away from you.
Besides, I don't *hate* Discovery and I'm not trying to wreck anything. Not to mention that, being just a random guy on the Internet, I don't have the power to 'wreck' Discovery even if I wanted. That doesn't mean though that I'm gonna pretend to enjoy what are, in my opinion, some bad writing decisions. You are, of course, free to disagree. Peace.
Classic trek probably would have done the entire burn arc as a 2-3 parter and probably explained it better.
That was part of the reason it was such a dissapointment. We followed Burnham as she gathered clues and theorized what could it be along with her, only for the answer to be something so outlandish that no one, not even someone inuniverse, could have posibly figure it out. If it was overhyped for 12 episodes.
You mean like the planet of women who appeared out of thin air and killed people one at a time, which turned out to be a poorly-programmed security system from a crashed starship? Or maybe the immortal human who was slowly dying because he couldn't survive outside Earth's atmosphere for more than a few centuries, and for some reason couldn't just go back to Earth? Or maybe that one where "parallel development" was so exact that they had a copy of the Declaration of Independence?
Yeah, classic Trek was always so scientifically thorough and well-thought-out...
@@DeaconBlues117 Literally nobody in this thread said that classic Trek was scientifically accurate or even well thought out.
@@DeaconBlues117 Well if you understand the parallel universe hypothesis at all, like taking 20s to read up on it, then the parallel development episode makes sense......
@@shawnp7313 That had nothing at all to do with the multiversal interpretation of quantum theory. The world in that episode was in _the same universe_ as the Earth that Kirk hailed from, not some multiversal offshoot where the Third World War was so devastating that the planet never recovered from it.
Instead, it was based on the concept of parallel development of planets - except that this theory denotes the idea of worlds _similar but not identical_ to Earth developing around other singleton G-type stars, and life evolving on them that is similar to our own (possibly even to the point of primate-equivalents becoming the dominant life form). The theory of parallel development does not extend to societies, and most certainly not to the exact wording of historical documents.
What actually happened: bad writers.
Interesting enough this is the reason for pretty much all Star Trek that ever existed.
@@pllpsy665 Luckily for TOS, there was an incredible scene-chewing actor available to make it wonderful
Winner 🏆🏆🏆
You obviously don't remember seasons 1 and 2 of TNG. So. Much. Cringe.
@@OptimusWombat remember kids, just because old trek had terrible writing at times it makes terribly written stuff today fine!
I dislike the idea of how the burn happened, a person's scream of great destroyed countless starships?
I would rather it have been some ' screw you ' weapon from the temporal war, particularly if it was one of Starfleets secret projects that showed THEM braking the accords and it was their fault.
This is Kurtzman Track, not even Trek. I doubt more than one or two people in that laugh factory of a writers' room even has an inkling what the Temporal Cold War is.
This is far too deep and interesting to have happened, hahaha. And that makes me sad.
They should have had Q destroy all the Dilithium.
Breaking.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel seeing as new trek has taken every opportunity to reference enterprise, the temporal cold war, and time travel in general I'm pretty fucking sure the writer's think enterprise was a reboot not a prequel.
I personally don't like that warp drive and dilithium based reactors are still commonly used in the 32nd century. Seems weird to me that a huge galactic power like the federation would be technologicaly stagnant for so long.
No weirder than the stagnation in the imaginations of TV sci-fi writers.
The Dominion has been using warp drive so long they had a hand in designing Klingons.
The problem is that dilithium is so plentiful, there's very little incentive to invest time and resources into alternatives. That's changing, at least in Star Trek Discovery.
You’d have to assume something came along that was not merely “as good as” warp or warp-based travel, but so much better than it that it would justify the replacement of a well established and perfectly suitable drive system.
Technology doesn’t replace older technology just because it is new. It has to be better by enough margin for there to be a reason to adopt it for it to replace it.
@Darth Revan Quantum singularities are used as power sources, as opposed to the matter-antimatter reactors common in the Federation and the Klingon Empire. Dilithium is used to enable warp travel by focusing said energies.
I always enjoy how you put these things into perspective.
now they need to figure out how to weaponize that Kalpian as a warp core breach weapon to take out the Borg and such enemy's for
Now all starships are required to have a sign “No sad faces” near the dilithium chamber.
Yeah .... no.
More likely is a "No mutated kelpian children allowed" sign.
As a side note I don't see how Sukal is going to prosper or even survive on the outside where everyone and their pet hamster has suffered losses and hardships because of him.
It is still starfleet we are talking about but that is a severely diminished starfleet with only a fraction of it's former glory/size. If that secret gets out they are not really able to stop violent repercussions.
@@JesusKreist It's weird that you think people would blame the kid. It's even weirder that you think after suffering loss, they wouldn't empathize with the kid who suffered loss making the burn happen.
I think you miss the point. Maybe I’m wrong but once Su’Kal is taken away from the dilithium planet, he won’t be able to cause that effect again. At the very least, if he is still able to render refined dilithium inert, away from the planet he’d have an extremely reduced amount of power and he is a single individual with this unique trait so not really anything anyone needs to worry about on a large scale again. Unless he is intent on returning to the dilithium planet to cause havoc, but that doesn’t seem to match with the character as portrayed so far
@@redapol5678 I understand the point, the joke is that when an incident occurs, especially if it results in damages, most organizations require filling out a “what happened” form, and part of that would be “what steps are taken to prevent this from happening again”, even if it was a one in a million freak accident.
@@LePedant
The burn was a violent catastrophe costing millions of lives and caused even more families grievances.
No matter how much the humans allegedly have evolved to a point they don't think about revenge (bs btw) that isn't true for other races.
The klingons for example. Based on what we know they will have viewed the burn as a targeted coward terrorist attack.
Similarly the romulans, cardassians, ... and even ferengi.
still think some one somewhere could have come up with something better than "a child screamed".
That someone would probably have been an Asian or white male though and was thus already banned from having a say in modern Trek.
@@cympimpin20 ?
I wish they hadn't done it at all. A universe where nobody except the Discovery crew can travel is boring and dumb.
An error; the romulan singularity drives did NOT in fact require dilithium to function. So ships with such energy drives was likely spared from "the burn".
The thing that bugs me the most about the Burn is that it only works if everyone in the galaxy is still using dilithium-regulated Warp drives. The Burn occurs almost exactly 1,000 years after the human invention of the warp drive. For contrast, Voyager takes place 300 years after the human invention of Warp drive, and by the end of that show Starfleet is already experimenting heavily with non-Dilithium, Faster-Than-Warp travel. Are the writers trying to tell me that Starfleet, and everyone else in the galaxy, completely abandoned quantum slipstream, transwarp, coaxial warp, whatever the Traveler was doing, the Caretaker Array, artificial wormholes, Paris's unspeakable salamander drive, fluidic space, whatever technology the Voth were using, and anything else they might have come up with in the intervening 700 years?
Pretty much everything else in Discovery Season 3 had the same problem, too. The only significant advances I could see were programmable matter, which was probably 50 to 100 years away at the end of Voyager given the state of holographic technology, and personal transporters, which you might be able to convince me would take another 200 years, tops. Jumping the crew of the Discovery 900 years into the future should have been an opportunity to come up with some completely fantastical, unimaginable technologies. Instead we got reconfigurable controls and slightly more convenient ship to surface transportation.
It seems like personal transporters would be a security nightmare as well. How do you avoid crew beaming themselves into another's quarters, or secure sections of the ship either on purpose or by accident? Plus it allows crew to beam on and off the ship at will, as long as they're in range.
Don't forget ships that look like a jacked-up Tesla in space with the secondary hull and nacelles not even connected to the saucer/chevron primary hull. Such stupid aesthetic and design choices on top of everything else. You're absolutely right, though. 50 years away with "programmable matter"? Not even. They had a working grasp of "particle synthesis" by the end of Voyager. They had reverse engineered slipstream, which explicitly did NOT use dilithium, they just couldn't get it to work properly as one Fed ship stranded in an uncharted quadrant. I seriously doubt that with the full resources of the UFP they couldn't have perfected the tech. From the start it was all poorly written inconsistent BS.
At some point very shortly after programmable matter, everyone would have the option for Stargate-style ascention, like Wesley in TNG - and it was already hard enough to depict the inside of the Q continuum
Not to mention that the Romulans don't use Dilithium anyway, they use those singularity engine things.
@@The_Lucent_Archangel They came up with tech, but that doesn't mean it's useful to travel long distances. There are many ways to design an aircraft, but there is a reason all long distance aircraft are large planes with jet engines. Helicopters or propeller planes don't work when flying halfway around the world.
Also, programmable matter and faster than light travel are two different things. FTL is not possible in our universe, that's why they go into subspace.
Sukal is as special as Burnham... That show is full of unicorns. The one ship that can teleport anywhere. A human with a stable trill symbiont. An engineer who is the sole person who can drive the said ship. A captain who seems to get all the answers with the most minimal of research who is also the unspoken child of one of the most legendary families in Federation history.
Conceptually I don't mind the teleporting ship and the human-with-trill because they're premises. The other examples are lazy writing though.
@@davidtormsen8004 The burn was a dumb idea, but typical of Discovery. A show full no talent hack writers.
Star Trek has always featured unicorns, what do you mean? Worf is the only Klingon in Starfleet, Geordi is essentially the only outwardly disabled individual we really get to know, Data is the only android in Starfleet, hell Sisko is all KINDS of "right place at the right time because the script says he's the Emissary", he's walking talking plot armor because the Prophets already know his role.
This is not new, it's just not the stuff you grew up on, and that's fine.
@@TypingHazard Certainly, but the issue nearly all main character in STD are unicorns. Other trek shows generally have between 0 and 2 unicorn, depending on how you'd count, and often times their unicorn isn't really that special, certainly not on the near mythic status most of STD's unicorns fit in.
TOS's Unicorn is arguably spock, which is simply the only alien on the ship of an allied planet and in the context of other Trek as mundane of a unicorn there is.
TNG had Worf and Data, Worf is again pretty basic case. Data is the first real bordering mythical unicorn on trek.
DS9 had Sisko which certainly was mythical level of unicorn. Beyond that not really unless you want to count Worf again.
VOY had Seven, more mundane than Sisko but not by much. And Kes, but that was for 2 episodes.
ENT had T'Pol and Phlox, those are on the level of Spock and Worf simply for being unique aliens on the ship.
And most of those unicorns didn't really have any more special abilities unique to them or some main plot important birthright. Out of all unicorns up till that point Sisko, Seven and Data only truly have unique abilities. And only really Sisko has some unique thing that isn't basically robot powers.
Than we get to STD, we have Burnham which not only has some mythical military record, has a mother that is a time altering tech angel, big (formerly unnamed and unknown) sister of Spock. Evil lady from and body double from an alternative universe that was also the emperor there. Engineer that is the only person in the universe that can drive the ship. Guy that's last of his race that can speak and commune to animals. Fish guy that made an interstellar communicator while his species barely invented fire and revolutionized his species after he got picked up by (for him) aliens and came back after becoming a captain. Girl that is the first and only human that can host a Trill. Dude that had a race change and a secret agent. Dude that basically killed all warp with a scream. Before mentioned time altering tech angel that also happened to be the mom of main character. And that's the unicorns I can think of from the top of my head, I wouldn't even remotely surprised if there were more.
@@relo999 ok, but you're making my point for me
I think you've put more thought into The Burn than the show writers did.
It's sad, that fans put more effort in the show, than the show writers themselfs do
@@Anthyrion I guess for some of us it`s passion, and for most of them it`s "just a job"
@@CMstacker Right. But is it to much, that todays writers could have both? A Job, that they do with passion?
@@Anthyrion sadly common, and what is worse, is that the owners will tell the fans to shut up, that is theirs, steal it and try to sell it for money. CBS All Access, Warhammer+, Disney+.
Wasn't this all just a retelling of the thought the writers put into it?
If ya want a head canon: exactly the same but replace the screaming dude with some sort of random dying star, I don’t know.
Course, then it’s fairly similar to the Hobus Supernova…
Which is another absurd plot device. If i were in charge of Star Trek, i'd remove all of the kurtzman shows, and the tie-in to abrams film from cannon.. then i'd get some genuinely good writers working on some proper trek.
or omega particle
The J.J. destruction of the Romulan Star Empire while something I find rather silly seems a little more believable than "The Burn".
Either way Kurtzman or JarJar, they are both a bunch of pretentious Hollywood Hacks. Trek and Wars and anything you had nostalgia over is dead. Let it go, make something new instead of reanimate corpses for your selfish nostalgia.
Also similar to the Praxis explosion. Another thing that inexplicably travelled faster than the speed of light.
@@claudeblue2281 At least the omega particle was well fleshed out and explained. As well as the omega particle being the original matter of the Big Bang and as such has some unique properties. The reasonability of the omega particle is not the same as for instance, a strange planet combined with an oddly supernatural environmentally induced random mutation in a rare polyploidy individual which was triggered by an extreme emotional experience... basically “magic rocks made a chosen one magic and his feeling changed the world”... that doesn’t sound like Trek to me but some fantasy story. Where is the science? 🤷♂️
What I'd really like to know is how this affected other interstellar powers such as The Borg and The Dominion.
Or even if they were still around 790 years after even Picard...
@@CertifiablyIngame The Dominion should be around. They were far older than the Federation during DS9's Dominion War. Two thousand years according to Weyoun if memory serves.
Alex Kurtzman would have to watch DS9 for that.
The Borg were seemingly destroyed or made vastly less powerful, as their ships are in transit constantly (and you need to have your regular warp drive engaged for the Borg transwarp drive, as Seven said one time). The transwarp corridors were completely packed with debris. I’d buy that the Dominion are around and reclaimed territories just like the Chain though.
I believe Romulans don't use dilithium warp cores. They used artificial singularities. So they should still be flying around.
It made sense until it was blamed on an individual's emotional tantrum...
Yes. This was rape on the whole genre.
@@thomasputko1080 rape isn't powerful enough to describe this cluster f'ck of a revelation.
I don't know. Having it be due to the emotional instability of a man child seems in theme for the series.
Why?
Yes, that was a bloody joke. After that I don't count that as Star Trek at all.
"The Burn" is the single stupidest idea that anyone has come up with in star trek
some kid screams and it's the end of civiilzation as anyone knows it
Found one of the people who priced me out of the house I grew up in, via NIMBYIsm, giving into the demands of sociopathic executives and landlords, not caring that Dorsey convinced DPW to spray homeless people with fire hoses in winter, not even realizing that they didn't shit everywhere before they started getting murdered. A few guys with shitty plastic boxcutters ended civilization as we knew it in real life, snd your lifestyle and attitude are trying to end what little is left
I agree. It is the single most stupidest idea that Kurtzman's Star Trek has created. At least until whatever the threat is in season 4 since it seems to involve a gravitational anomaly. I bet it will be just as stupid or even worse than "The Burn".
Yea that explanation made no sense
How else where they going to make a grossly outdated archaic ship relevant in the far future and by that extension keeping Micheal Burnham the most important person who has ever lived across every reality.
Kid screams, kills billions, almost destroys civilization as we know it, but somehow, he'll end up as 'Part of the Crew'.
basically the whole third season is an analogy of greta thunberg "how dare you" shenanigans
That power emanating across cyberspace from that ending made me spit out my tea, it burned...
This ending was cliché and incredibly unsatisfying. The plot device of a supernatural child who can’t control their emotions causing immeasurable damage is so overused that I fully expected it as soon as the distress call was identified.
It was a disappointing way to wrap up a story with a lot of potential.
It would be different if it was tied into the ascension of a Q type individual. That could of been why the predator species tried to keep the Kelpians primitive, because they endanger the entire galaxy when they ascend... but we would need better writers for that.
Now the Federation has a weapon. Should Section 31 figure out how to duplicate and control this power. Imagine if they could make the dilithium become inert on an opposing ship?
That's a good proposition. But one major challenge is getting it to focus on the targeted dilithium only and not spreading throughout space and damaging their own vessels.
@@90najay exactly. That's why I said controlling the power would be necessary.
I’m surprised 31 never built more Pegasus-style cloaking devices and use them to, I dunno, fly down into planets and drop off thousands of proton torpedoes down in the mantle or even the core to have them detonate and destroy which ever seat of power they choose. It’s not like there wasn’t a conspiracy to make all volcanoes on the Klingon homeworld to erupt simultaneously
I like the Waaa at the end, since that is what essentially happened.
Why they don't time travel before the burn and fix it?
Because I guess time ships don't exist anymore, anywhere.
Just like how the spore drive was classified and apparently no other species anywhere in the whole of the multiverse ever figured it out, since there aren't a bunch of ships just popping in and out randomly at any given time.
@@BaconMinion I think because of the significance of the event - it was impossible to erase it, and attempts to remove the burn were successful, but they created an analogue of the Kelvin timeline, I think that it is possible to correct the event within one timeline up to a certain small scale (within the universe) Wesley Crusher could intervene, he does not need ships
"The burn" happened because they wanted to get rid of the Roddenberry vision of an optimistic, positive future. That had to go, to be replaced with the modern taste for a dystopia where everyoen has gone back into isolationist little mini-hells. The fact that it's full of plot holes big enough to drive mammoths through is irrelevant. Like - why did the Federation start to run out of dilithium, when it's established there were MANY older civilisations MANY pof which were as big or bigger, why hadn't they used it all up in their time? Why not just steal or copy the Romulan system which uses a singularity to power their warp drives, not antimatter? And let's just ignore the endless systems that didn;t use warp drive (long range transporters, iconian gateways, the Caretaker displament wave, transwarp conduits, soliton wave, slipstream drive...etc). Hilarious they were sdaying that the Federation never moved on _The same technology for over a thousand years_ - on Earth that is the gap between crude mechanical clocks and quantum computers LOL. And in TNG it was actually established with recompositing technology the crystals in essence had an unlimitted lifetime, and dilithium was nowhere near as precious as it had been in Kirk's era.
No it was because a kelpian/kurtzian wanted his mommy.
Thats the whole story, they wanted the Utopia destroyed, much like in Picard...
This!!!
The problem isn't whether or not the Burn makes sense, the problem is that they weren't able to build a good story around it. Every Trek show/movie have mistakes or elements that don't make much sense. Do any of the Changeling's abilities make sense? Does it make sense they can change their mass or turn into a space faring creature or fog or even chemical reactions like fire? Does it make sense that they can copy something so perfectly that the most advanced scanners can't tell the difference. Not really. But they built a great story around the Founders and the Dominion and made them great villains.
I think their big problem was trying to resolve both the burn and the chain plots in the same episode, resulting in neither having a satisfactory ending.
The concept of the Burn could have been fine. But an autistic screech destroying all antimatter mediators in a galaxy is just dumb. There's a subjective threshold for every member in the audience beyond which the suspension of disbelief gets turned into eyerolls and sour feelings. The writers of Discovery seem to be committed to blundering past that threshold nearly every episode.
No...it still doesn't. If the "scream" had that effect, then the link between crystals would have caused a" burn" every time a warp core overloaded. This is by far your most "stretched" effort to take a very problematic story line and support it. Of course it makes no sense. Processed dilithium isn't raw material ground up, mixed with other material and cast into something new. The dilithium crystals are cut to specific geometries to serve as reaction modulators. TNG, STO, and Voyager, and several films discuss this many times.
You are right about one thing. We didn't know dilithium had a subspace interaction as part of its structure until they needed it as a plot device. No one thought of it before because dilithium could not have a subspace component because subspace is not an existing sublayer but a path through existing layers made possible by creating a warp shell. You wedge through the layers. As a naturally occurring material, dilithium would not have the ability to be between layers of the quantum brane of space-time. It may be able to share energies with different layers but not between them. The entire Omega particle story line would refute the story line for the burn...as well as TNG : A Force of Nature.
I would lastly reiterate that the Phoenix did not have access to dilithium but was warp capable.
Aren't warp, dilithium, subspace, the Omega particle, and the Phoenix also plot devices that weren't mentioned until needed?
Well, the Phoenix was also a hell of a lot slower then any other ships we see. With a limited power source and engine design the Phoenix didnt need dilitium. It would have been nice if Enterprise had given us more back story to the Phoenix and its drive and maybe explained it was the Vulcan's that introduced humanity to dilitium.
@@JaredLS10 and the Phoenix was very small
The Phoenix was very small and slow and the trip was short
@@dennisreed6345 the pheonix was a warp ship...that is all that is neccessary. Size doesn't matter. Creating a warp shell does. After that it is only regeneration rate that matters.
honestly would have been better from a story POV if the burn was caused by the method of time travel they implemented. This would also remove any space jesus bullshit as everyone would know it's ultimately Lil Mike's Fault
Yes... yes this would have been awesome. I don't think they'd do that to Burnham, tho it'd be a great irony given her last name. :)
Also fk Burnham, worst main cast character imo. She was cool during season 1/2
Glad I haven't watched that series. It absolutely defies my ability to suspend my disbelief.
"All dilithium crystals in use explode because of a sad alien."
Same here.
Everything I've heard of this show has been bad.
@@JB-1138 it's an awful show.
It's hardly the first time Star Trek's done that. Or the fiftieth.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 it's hardly the first time Star Trek made dilithium explode from crying aliens? Can you explain what you mean by "that"?
@@seanmachado7681 It's hardly the first time some weird crap caused something on a massive scale. Look what happened to the Husnock, for instance.
Self-proclaimed Trekkies are bashing this, and forget that TOS and TNG are literally FULL of similar events, just not on a galactic scale.
So I'm an old school fan- and I have all the tech manuals etc from "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" on up. Historically speaking- Dilithium is not a part of the Warp Drive per se- Dilithium was used as a reaction moderator in the Matter/Anti-matter reactor- and nothing more. Now I know those books are kinda "Apocrypha" if you will, but it's consistent with what's shown on screen all the way up to Voyager and Enterprise.
Season 3 is a mess and the whole burn event is just beyond my suspension of disbelief. The authors didn't even try to explain what happened with a remotely similar event from the past so that I could say "It's unlikely but possible". The Burn burned itself badly.
The whole invention of dilithium partially existing in subspace strikes me as serving only to justify the Burn. If dilithium is a regulator for matter/antimatter reactions, there's no need for it to have any subspace component.
Rick, thank-you for explaining this. It was a dark shade of fuzzy gray for me.
Is it just me or is the image of Su'kal screaming at 0:29-ish incredibly cursed?
The one at the very end of the video is worse. >:)
@@CertifiablyIngame Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
It's dumb because by the 31st century, why were ships still using 1000 year old propulsion technology? Not slipstream, or transwarp, or even the essentially instant travel temporal drives without the now banned time travel component? Nevermind getting the daft spore drive out of the archives. Hell even if you go with the OG warp cores still being around, why not adopt Romulan style engines afterwards? No dilithium there.
IKR? This is supposed to be almost a thousand years later and they are still using 1000 year old technology for war drive. What about slipstream and transwarp? Did the writers even watch Star Trek besides the TNG movies? And the Romulans used singluarity cores for their warp drives. And they have time travel, so they couldn't go back in the past and obtain dilithium from a planet that won't be discovered to have dilitihium for years? This is why DISCO is just so damn stupid.
Soooooooooo many plotholes yea this was stupid he killed millions or billions of people sooo the who plot was stupid and I stopped watching the show...
Dilithium is used to regulate matter/antimatter reactions. So yeah, ships using M/AM that had their dilithium go all weird would basically have a warp core breach. However, this would NOT affect things like the Romulan singularity drive. It is very possible to make warp drives that don't use dilithium, you just need a different power source other than M/AM.
The season 3 mystery was the most anticlimactic garbage of all time.
Agreed
I thought The Burn was great, but the cause was ridiculous. The writers should have made The Burn by Omega Molecule experimentations, which we learned was extremely dangerous from Voyager. At least that makes more sense. The damage to subspace Omega creates could have taken an entire season plot to try and fix it.
The writers love messing with Star Trek cannon, first spore drive now this nonsense, it’s a shame really.
Just a whole other level of bullshit!
At least when _Lower Decks_ messes with canon, they do it respectfully. (Like the future statue of Chief O'Brien.)
@@ManabiLT true true
You forgot transforming klingons into fish-monsters
@@claudiussmith8798 oh yes of course.
I’m not a fan of the “Kurtsmanverse”, the whole thing is driving me nuts.... a fungus driven craft.....a scream destroys dilithium.....Picard reduced to a sniveling shell of the iconic leader he was. You couldn’t rationalize to convince me there is anything good about the latest trek.
But I’ve always liked your videos, keep up the good work man!
The lead character is a strong and complex character and is very well portrayed by Soniqua Martin. S1 an S2 were both fairly decent imo but S3 was pretty bad.
Couldn't agree more. I enjoyed the first season but it soon became apparent this is not Star Trek but 'The Michael Burnham Show' - that is, a show more or less centred around one character rather than an entire crew of diverse people with entire episodes devoted to developing them. There are of course a lot of characters who do develop but it lacks the lovely combination of depth and playfulness of previous Treks. I won't be watching season 4, I couldn't even bear season 3. Fair play to those who like it, I've seen much worse.
Dumb stuff happened in Trek all the time, but the new era just doesn’t forget about it at the end of the episode. They build whole seasons around silly stuff instead of discarding the concept after an hour. And I am into it.
One time in TNG a guy named Kevin got sad and wiped out tens of billions of sentient beings in an instant.
Voyager got stranded in the delta quadrant because a banjo playing rock wanted to see if he could have sex with the people on board.
TOS has a big purple force field surrounding the galaxy that might turn you into a god if you go near it.
Trek has always had extremely silly and campy concepts that have huge repercussions.
Also Picard’s depiction in the new series is near-perfect. Calling him “sniveling” makes me feel like you don’t empathize with people with trauma and personal demons. He’s never been depicted as a paragon of strength, just as someone who tries to find the courage to do the right thing in the end.
Picard what?! You obviously didn’t pay attention to his role in TNG, he was portrayed as a person of strength and leadership, especially in the early episodes. That’s why his crew respected him and wanted to follow him to the end of the galaxy.
@@BirthquakeRecords "a banjo playing rock" I laughed.
It's Kurtzman physics...
A reminder why I gave up on Discovery
So, this is replicatable right? Now that Starfleet knows it's possible they probably don't need a screaming child, people could set up dilithium bombs or guns which send out burn waves and disrupt any warp cores... So warp travel is even more dangerous than ever, unless you can somehow create failsafe warp reactors.
just dont use a federation style warpdrive... problem solved.
It's very apparent why the Burn occurred, and who is responsible. It's all Burnham's fault. She meddled, and liberated the Kelpiens. Once again, meddled in interstellar affairs. And because of that, Kelpiens were out there. So she is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths at least. And instead of anybody putting the pieces together, especially after having access to her complete service record, she failed upwards.
No. That was Georgiou. If you want to blame anyone, it's Georgiou.
@@talideon she only liberated one. Burnham liberated all of them from the B'aul.
like this angle. it could have really challenged this series weird obsession with Lil Mike always being correct. Additionally it would play well with the theme of Predetermined destiny/the Cosmic Order being disrupted. The Grey area Starfleet hates to skirt....That some may have to die for many to live
@@Casvaleon they would never challenge Mikey Spock, she is the SJW of the Cosmos.
The Hack, Kurtzman simply needed a flimsy premise so that he could convert the Andromeda storyline into the Star Trek universe. Kurtzman is not a good writer. He steals characters and plot ideas from indie game developers. Kurtzman is not a good person. Don't be like Kurtzman.
*at this point M NIGHT SHAMALAN is a genius and that is terrifying to say* considering we all thought he was ROCK BOTTOM. I can’t believe it got worse 🤮
There could've been such an easy explanation, what happend, that made all FTL journeys impossible: Omega Particles. Somebody could've experimented with them and failed so that Warp Speed travel isn't possible anymore.
This is addressed in the video
@@BirthquakeRecords Yes, i wrote it before he mentioned it. But it's still a better explanation than the "burn". Hmm. Does "burn" stands for Michael BURNham?
To have the Burn be caused by the Omega Particle would mean the current writers would have to know something about Star Trek. That's asking far too much from them.
@@KyleClements I know. I respect fans, who are saying, that they like STD, but i seriously don't understand them. I was willing to give the show a chance, even that a black female first officer sounded like the usual SJW stuff. And after Season 1 i never watched a complete episode of this. Only reviews and even that was enough to give me headeache
@@KyleClements Yes, but what you forget (because you're an idiot) is they DID know, they just didn't want Warp Trvael to be impossible PERIOD.
This makes me curious about alternate (non-dilithium-based) power sources in Trek.
Ronald D. Moore said that Zefram Cochrane's Pheonix used either a nuclear fission or fusion reactor to power its warp drive. This makes sense as the Pheonix was basically a modified nuclear missile and dilithium cannot be found on Earth.
@@kevinkhc3904 Which also makes sense if you look at the older Trek technical manuals...impulse engines are run by a secondary fusion reactor.
(Paraphrasing in part, as I can't find the quote online) "Transwarp corridors are a deathtrap, tachyon solar sails are slow as shit, and unless you've got some benamite, which nobody does, we can't use quantum slipstream."
K, well, they could shield an entire planet but couldn't power faster than light travel without dilithium. Also they somehow had the technology to literally transport through space and time, yet relied on what would have been a primitive form of interstellar travel by comparison. I don't think power is a problem, just bad writing by people who sort of looked at memory alpha to figure out what star trek was about. The rest they made up and spent time on making mockey Spock the bestest evar because she's black.
Quantum singularities (like the Romulan Warbird). You could probably build a reactor that facilitates a matter-antimatter reaction without using dilithium, too, but i suppose a purely energy field based solution would be less stable.
Well that's a lot better than what they showed us... which was that it seemed to be caused by some screaming weirdo. Nice work, Rick!
Thing is, the research and "science" was there, just not translated to the screen in full, this topic was inspired by the official article covering it. Still got some issues, mind.
The Burn was crap… and also, what’s crap is how 900 years in the future no one figure out how to synthesize dilithium.
What are you talking about??? No one forgot how to synthesize dilithium. You clearly didn't understand what was going on in the show.
@@LePedant Please, explain.
@@spencerdiniz Literally, 0:44 seconds into the video. It can explain it better than I can.
@@LePedant It seems you didn’t understand my original comment. At the moment in the video, he’s talking about REFINING dilithium… That’s a requirement to use it for warp travel. I’m referring to SYNTHESIZING dilithium so they don’t have to mine it at all. “Synthesize” as in make more through some fabrication process. It boggles my mind that in 900 years they invented “reprogrammable matter”, but didn’t figure out a way to synthesize/create dilithium and still depend on mining it.
@@spencerdiniz Wait wait wait? You are complaining because you feel like they should have been able to synthesize a non-synthesizable material because of time?
They established some things can't be synthesized in Star Trek. Latium is another one, along with Di-lithium.
The child was able to scream across subspace because he is the chosen one foretold in the prophecy, the one who will destroy the Sith and bring balance to the verse.
damnitI was not prepared for the end. now I have coffee up my nose!
Sorrynotsorry :D
The problem with the entire concept, is that dilithium, while an important part of Starfleet and other species engine designs, it's just a part of one mechanism, for one particular way of achieving FTL travel. It's like if suddenly gasoline became inert in 1960. We certainly had other ways to power vehicles, such as electricity and steam. They wouldn't have been as efficient as gasoline, but would have enabled society to function until they did become more efficient.
There were quite a few alternative technologies that were brought up in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, even Enterprise.
From space folding transporters, to iconian gateways, to funding a way to make the Soliton Wave technology work.
Trying to make dilithium make sense is fun! what if the matter/antimatter reaction generates immense energy and the warp engines dump it into the dilithium. Since the dilithium exists in both realms it can be thought of as a lens of sorts. the warp engine focuses and shapes the energy it's dumping into subspace, generating he warp bubble. Trying to shunt an immense amount of energy into a subspace lens to generate a shape on the other side would require a lot of computer power to stay on top of it.
In addition to what you said in this video, if this subspace lens went from clear to opaque, all the immense energy that should have gone into subspace would stay inside regular space and then the ship's electrons and nuclei decide go separate ways.
The fact that Romulans mine dilithium doesn't mean singularity warp drives require it. The Romulans are most likely mining it as an export commodity to maintain leverage over vassal species.
The universe written by the writers of Discovery is as good as my singing under the shower. Somewhat acceptable to me but horrible to others. What ever explanation there will be, Discovery will never be a part of "my" sense of Star Trek. "Picard" was sadly not was I was expecting for but it's far more "Star Trek" than Discovery will ever be.
1966-2005
Whoa! You said something positive about Picard?? Wow! I too enjoyed it. It certainly wasn't the shitshow that mindless haters make it out to be.
That's really pushing it considering STP was just as shit as STD, if not more insulting since they ruined not only Picard as a character but also Seven and Itcheb along with other things. Topping it off with a shitty Mass Effect ripoff at the end.
@@Mate397 I really have no idea what people mean when they say they "ruined" Picard's character. smh
@@louisalectube Really? A diplomat of the Star Fleet, one of the best captains of the Federation that saved Star Fleet multiple times gets reduced to a dementia ridden old man who is always yelled at by smug women isn't a ruined character? Did you even watch TNG before or did you just jump into STP?
I don't think the federation temporal division wouldn't see this coming
The burn is one of those things I just accept happened and quietly try move past it.
What still bugs me is the melody that every race in the galaxy seemed to know somehow being the crashed Kelpian ships distress call. Was that transmitted through subspace with the burn?
So... The Federation forgot about the Fusion-powered shuttlecraft from the 24th Century? And the Soliton Wave? And Artificial Wormholes that were nearly done by DS9? Or Transwarp Conduits and drives? And what about Romulan Singularity Warp Cores? And Nobody Reverse Engineered or Rediscovered how The Borg and Iconians can teleport through space without a ship? Heck nobody even tried Tachyon Sailing for goodness sake? There were so many alternatives to Dilithium warp cores even in TNG/DS9/VOY, and that's supposed to be centuries before The Burn! Did the writers of STD even watch Star Trek?
Question. How did Cochrane build the first human warp ship without dilithium?
Fusion power, probably
A very legitimate question.
From memory, mine not memory alpha, he used some kind of fusion cell and barely went FTL. The dilithium seemed to be a stabiliser for the M/AM reaction, without it a warp reactor doesn't work all that well. Another fairly well reasoned hypothesis is that they used their piezoelectric properties to convert the M/AM reaction into electricity to power everything.
@@andrewbutton2039 the Phoenix being fusion powered makes sense but I’ve heard that official sources state it was powered by M/AM...if you can believe some people in the woods can find or manufacture and store Store antimatter. Fusion power enabling low warp factors is consistent with the TOS romulan Warburg being much slower than the Enterprise abs Scott saying that ship had only ‘impulse’ power.
Good question. Also if dilithium is so rare, how does waiting for a species to achieve ftl to make first contact make any sense? Wouldn't there be many inhabitable worlds, perhaps even entire solar systems, that completely lack the element? And if Starfleet and the rest of the galaxy can't make ftl work without dilithium, how could any species ever be expected to achieve it on their own first? The Burn not only makes no sense in how it happened, but it also exposes elitism and foolishness with the very idea of the Prime Directive. Have the bad luck to be born in an area with no dilithium, and thus no ability to ever develop stable and safe ftl? Well, it looks like you'll have to remain ignorant about the galactic community for "your own good."
My biggest issue with Star Trek Discovery now every season now is a Galaxy ending disaster. During its run in Star Trek next generation they never ran across any species that was capable of doing that at a whim. It was always something that would affect the federation but not destroy it
I love the post credits snippet....made me snort my tea!! Interesting video though. Thank you.
It's Kurtzman alright. Give the man a toy and he breaks it
Did the writers change the lore theory behind the use of dilithium? I used to have a copy of the Starfleet Manual and the technical manual on the Enterprise D (both from late 90s I think) And I seem to recall that somewhere in there it was explained that Dilithium is the only "matter" substance that is transparent to "anti-matter" allowing the antimatter stream in a warp core to be focused onto the matter stream allowing the safe reaction of the 2. Can anyone confirm this?
i read that too, the dilithium in the warp reactor was exposed to elmag. radiation, what allowed it to mix matter and antimatter and make warp plasma, which was transported to the warp nacelles. there the interaction of the warp plasma and the verterium cortenide in the warp colis created the warp effect.
The books aren't canon ever end of story.
That's one of the issues with Star Trek canon, if it's not on screen, then it doesn't get treated as canon by future writing. The best case is that it gets used as inspiration, like Lower Deck's USS Titan. Going forwards, they have said that anything the release in any media is canon, but they've already skewed that too.
@@PeterMydlo that's a lot more detailed than I remember. But thanks I was remembering it correctly then.
It's nice that this all happens in a parallel universe of lore, because there's no way I'd accept this as canon material in the prime timeline
Then I'm very sorry for your headcanon, as it's now different from the official timeline. All this happens/happened/will happen in the so-called "Prime Timeline", home of all the other Star Trek TV series as well.
@@DeaconBlues117 People always forget that the prime timeline was destroyed in Enterprise when the Xindi probe did an interplanetary 911 and killed millions of humans that lived pre-TNG. That undoubtedly changed the timeline and all subsequent instalments post Enterprise are the after effects of the temporal Cold War causing havoc on the timeline. Thus, making cannon inconsistent as the time lines are continuing to diverge. The Red Angel story arc is but one example of the timeline starting to break apart... lol, anyway the in all seriousness the prime timeline does with the temporal Cold War in Enterprise. Everything else has been parallel timelines. It doesn’t have to be said explicitly, it’s an obvious conclusion of Enterprise’s narrative with regard to the rest of the franchise. There is room to save the franchise but it would take epic writing. Something STD or Trek doesn’t have at the moment.
@@DeaconBlues117 I argue that it's not, since it utilizes too many major changes from the official timeline, and it takes a lot of inspiration from the Kelvin timeline. CBS can say whatever it wants, but it's far too inconsistent to make sense with established content.
@@ManicPandaz I don't know if the prime timeline is "destroyed", but perhaps it's simply where the bar is set and other timelines are trying to stay as close to it as possible? Could be a driving force behind the temporal cold war, protecting the prime timeline at critical points of divergence (such as the Xindi probe attack). If so it allows Discovery to get away with many of its plot inconsistencies while also "claiming" to be part of the prime timeline as it's just another divergence. Just a theory, the writing in Discovery leaves a lot to be desired and makes this more difficult than needed.
@@Ragefor3Dayz CBS can "say whatever it wants" because CBS, as owner of the IP, *defines* canon. You're free to disagree, I suppose, but that's your headcanon, not the official timeline any more than someone's AO3 Cap/Bucky slashfic is official Marvel canon.
As for "inconsistencies", if things looking like they "always" have is your marker, there's no way TOS and DS9 are in the same universe. Starships move differently, weapons work differently, the Enterprise hit warp 14 in one TOS episode but now warp 10 is an absolute universal speed limit...
Anyone remember there was a point in TNG where all ships were forced to go under warp 5 due to tears in subspace or something like that? Why not integrate that plot line into the burn instead of what we were given instead? From what I remember that plot was kind of swept under the rug, but it could’ve been great to see the repercussions. Not the best explanation and would need to be delved deeper but it’s at least leaps beyond what STD tried to do
Makes sense to the Holy would libre eareles. Their fuel burns them up. That is to say global warming. They will have to invent subspace bicycles. lol!
To summarize... A kid injected with Dilithium DNA to survive on a planet filled with dilithium and become an Earth Bender, he scream and caused the entire universe of dilithium to explode...except the planet his on...
Thanks was super confused by this and just finished discovery a few weeks ago.
Even assuming that the planet amplified the scream, there still is the matter of the inverse square law. Unless the energy was on the magnitude of a supernova which is probably impossible the inverse square law must not apply. Since the inverse square law is a matter of geometry the only way I can see of avoiding it would be that the subspace component of dilithium crystals are all linked together in some way (some form of filament between them) and thus the "burn" energy just follows the filament and does not spread out all over space and this would negate the inverse square law. This theory presents an interesting possibility for future writers since in a battle your ship's dilithium crystals and the enemy's ship dilithium crystals are connected in subspace and it should be possible to send something nasty from your ship to the enemy ship down this connection.
In my opinion, the lack of forethought by the writers of discovery is exactly why it shouldn't have been made or "made cannon". Now that this ridiculous catastrophe has been written into the lore of trek then it really screws up any future stories that involve FTL travel unless you use the ridiculous spore drive. Dont get me wrong, I liked season one but season two seemed to start stretching things.and I like all trek not just 1 or 2 facets or franchises.
This is the single worst reason for a crysis in all of Star Trek.
Baby cries, Dilithium goes boom. F that, what kind of hot garbage that was.
A magic planet made of space rock fuel and an explosion that almost destroyed civilization as a whole? All caused by a kid who had a temper tantrum?
That makes sense?
Well all we need is a time travel episode to destroy the ship the kid was on and WALLA the Federation is at full strength again. :-)
But Time Travel bad!
The "Treaty" says so!
A "Treaty" that no one but the federation honors or remembered exists
Does in Star Trek. It's hardly the first time. Look at the shit Q does. Or V'ger. Or the Prophets. Or a Douwd.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this.
Also the more I learn about Stat Trek discovery the less I actually want to watch it, what a stupid reason...
Of course, they forgot one thing...while the speed of light isn't a limiting factor, distance has shown to be a problem with subspace communications. The Voyager for instance couldn't communicate with Earth for much of its trip. So no, still not buying it. They may have used an existing mechanism within Trek, but still stupid.
It was even a major plot point in the season that the Burn occurred everywhere simultaneously. Starfleet couldn't triangulate the source because it didn't propagate, it was just as if someone briefly unchecked the "does dilithium work?" checkbox in the universe's settings.
@@SabertoothSeal Is that correct? Wasn't a plot point the fact that Burnham (of course) discovered that there was a billionth-of-a-billionth time-lag for some of the ships, and that's how they triangulated The Burn's point of origin?
@@astralplane6182 I've forgotten the details; I thought there was something on the seed ship that pointed the way to them. But if what you're saying is true that I'm even more disappointed than I was before!
@@SabertoothSeal Which is ironic because in the 24th century they could track subspace signals fairly easily. Assuming the exponential development of technology, even with this explanation, that was a single point of origin and should have easily been tracked.
I'm confused why the Romulans didn't take over the quadrant. Singularity engines don't seem to need dilithium. Its a non replicated resource meaning that it is quite valuable and finite. Seems like its an easy way for the Romulans to make money, explaining the mines.
Hey why not look into the ships and technology of Space Battleship Yamato.
Ditto
Yesss I'd like that
Watched Discovery right up until that moment, yet still somehow kept going.. then they had the turbolift fight - the "internal open space of the starship is that of a small nation, just an empty void of space, nothing in it, despite of the ship not actually being all that big. Turbolift just flies through a giant empty void inside a spaceship.
That's when the show lost me, that exact moment.
The scream that caused the Burn was powered by the Dark Side of the Force...
It was either Cylons or Daleks.
The Burn: Good idea
Screaming child causing it: god awful fucking idea
The Burn plot was one of the biggest let-downs in all of sci-fi. Was it a plot by The Dominion? The Borg's revenge for what Janeway did to them? A new enemy unleashing a new weapon? No, it was caused by some mentally challenged alien. I had not seen a let-down like that since it was revealed meatballs with teeth was literally eating the past in The Langoliers.
ST:D caused the "burn."
After 120yrs, Discovery should’ve either encountered a massive Romulan Star Empire or everyone using blackhole reactors instead of antimatter warp cores, after a massive rebellion or civil war between Romulans and their “subjects”. (Romulans use black holes to power their ships)
One wonders why everyone didn't just switch to Romulan-style singularity cores.
He covered it. Starts at 2:20 of the video.
One Kelpian was a MAJOR disappointment. They could've went in so many, better directions with this. Omega would've been the best option.
The notion that dilithium crosses into subspace was covered in a non-Canon Star Trek novel from years ago. I'm trying to remember which one it was, but I'm suspecting that it _Prime Directive_ .
Thank you! I couldn't remember where I'd seen this before. Couple of minutes googling confirms its the TOS novel: Prime Directive!
@@CertifiablyIngame that's great! It's weird that I can remember stuff like this, but not what I had for lunch yesterday :p
Let's not try to justify what is a bad plot:
1. The explosion should have affected reactors on planets as well, which apparently did not happen.
2. The genetic mutation to live in subspace is illogical because genes live in normal space, it's like saying an individual change from a 3-dimensional being to a 4-dimensional one.
3. Only refined dilithium exploded, so natural dilithium should still be abundant according to Tom Paris, who said "it’s found everywhere."
4. The Federation shouldn't have collapsed solely due to difficulties in space transport, as long-range communications are well-established.
5. Alien races like the Romulans do not use dilithium, so The Burn shouldn't have been catastrophic for everyone. A recovery would have been quick at the very least.
6. Dilithium can be regenerated according to a discovery by Spock, so there shouldn't be a shortage of this resource.
It just not make any sense.
According to Trekyards the Romulan do use Dilithium, they channel the energy from the singularity into it .( because I asked them this very question)
I kinda thought the Burn was caused by people messing around with space/time, along with the events of STO and space time just went "F you all."
As if they forgot about Q
@@Marinealver or some species messing around with banned Omega particles. Regardless which other more realistic in cannon options (subspace destroying particles, time travel shenanigans, wars, supernova's, divine intervention, etc) they could've chose from for the story to explain the burn, they went with a mutant screaming alien... smh...
@@Greylan Omega particles wouldn't have worked anyways, given they destroy the ability to warp PERIOD, AND destroy subspace comms as well.
But all you apparent lore nerds forget that.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 Those were just examples and they could've used something similar to the particles that was discovered/invented before the discovery's jump to the future that may've been similar or based on the containment device Seven constructed for the Omega episode that could've failed and resulted in the catastrophe. And once again any of them would've worked better story wise and been more believable than a "screaming mutant alien" on one planet somehow causing instabilities in Dylithium throughout the quadrant. But feel free to white knight for the show/poor story writing if you feel the need.
Actually if remember the Romulan ships didnt use dilithium. they used a micro-singularity for power. so they shouldn't have been affected by the Burn at all.
Don't question it, or else you are not a real Star Trek fan... so I am told
I can't wait to hear Mike and Rich talk about this.
I hope they do a big episode on season 3.
Mutation is like in dnd and you roll the dice. The rarity within rarity is rolling a natural 20 8 times in a row on a d20. It can be done I did it once years ago. But never since then.
It would have been better if The Burn had been the intentional or unintentional result of a weapon. Designed by any number of races in a bid for more power, Klingon, Carcassonne, Borg, Species 8427, or even Section 31.