How Many Solar Panels Do You Need For A Trolling Motor?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2022
- Trolling Motor Solar Panel Battery Charging on a Small Boat.
Can you run an electric trolling motor off of solar power? Are you considering a solar panel for a small boat? If you're researching a small solar powered boat project, this video covers some of the size and economic aspects of installing solar panels to a tiny boat compared to other approaches. Solar panels can be used on boats for charging batteries. Solar panels can be effective and useful to help maintain batteries. But on a small 12 foot boat will a small solar panel provide any value to help keep a trolling motor battery charged? Are there better and cheaper options to extend the range of my trolling motor? I explore whether a small solar panel could maintain my 12 volt battery for my Minn Kota trolling motor and if not, how much solar or how many solar panels would I need to be able to use my trolling motor all day?
This video addresses questions like:
Can a solar panel keep boat batteries charged?
Can I get more range out of my trolling motor with a solar panel?
What does it cost to add a solar panel to my small boat?
Can I use solar to run my trolling motor?
What would it cost to make a solar powered small boat?
Portable and fixed mount solar panel systems and kits can be used to charge the batteries on a boat. On really small boats or tiny boats, there isn't enough space to place the 100 watt or larger solar panels to keep a 12 volt battery or batteries charged. Solar panels are the current best way to harness energy to recharge batteries while out on the water, but on a small boat that is running an electric trolling motor (like my Minn Kota Riptide 55 12 volt 55 lb thrust motor), solar panels are expensive and bulky and would only be able to recharge my battery if I was boating in the summer, under full sun with the panels well aligned to the sun. Smaller and cheaper solar panel kits will work to recharge a battery that wasn't under a load, but it could take several hours under ideal conditions. If a person is using their trolling motor to travel and then sitting in one place for a while without using the motor, a small solar panel could help and keep a battery charged on a boat.
Interested in some of the items shown in this video?
- 20 Watt portable kit: amzn.to/3Me6gA4
- 600 W solar panel system: amzn.to/3w8tW3l
- 200 W solar panel kit: amzn.to/3sxFhaS
- Portable 200 Watt solar kit: amzn.to/3wbR551
- Trolling motors sold by Amazon: amzn.to/3PlGHyY
- Renogy 100Ah lithium battery: amzn.to/38kaurr
As an Amazon Associate I earn a small commission from qualifying purchases.
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#solarboat #smallboatsolar #boatsolarpanel
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I just had to add my 2 cents. First of all, I have being running the following setup for over a year and have only had to charge my system a couple of times with an electric battery charger. This was only because it was winter (less sunlight hours) and we had a full week of cloudy rainy weather. The whole system cost me roughly $200 since I already had a trolling motor and a battery. Your numbers are probably correct if you run the trolling motor constantly and as the main propulsion for the boat. Most fishing trip I do would be pushing it to use the trolling motor more than 50% of the time. Every time you stop to fish or do something, the solar charger will catch up. I fish every weekend, all day Saturday and half a day on Sunday's. Most of the time when I get home my battery is 90% charged or better. I even charge going down the highway and while it's sitting in my yard. I have a 12 Volt trolling motor(XI5), 100ah lead acid (about to go lithium for weight loss), a $40 charge controller and a 100 watt solar panel in the boat. I also have an addition 100 watt solar panel on the side of my house. I plug this one in when I get home for 200 watts maximum charging. Add another $100 for this one, but I don't think I really need it. I probably should have just bought a 200 watt solar panel for the boat and be done with it. This set up work for me in my 18 foot aluminum bass boat.
So it can work in this situation - and that is how many people do use it (trolling motor as not the main propulsion and only used some of the time) Thanks!
If you use a PWM speed controller you can stretch that out even more. The trolling motor uses the same power regardless of speed setting, any excess is just burned off as heat.
I'm trying to get to the point you're at.
Just calculating the solar panel size that doesn't take up too much room on the boat.
But your system is ideal! Thanks
disclaimer: I don’t own any electric motors for boats or EV’s
I think Wayne was extremely narrow minded in this video. Right now, if you have an electric trolling motor, you may be disconnecting the battery everyday to bring it back to charge. Solar probably solves this daily charge chore… it can also charge the battery when stopped. There’s also draw differences in how you use a trolling motor. Getting from point A to point B would have different draw characteristics than slowly trolling while fishing (depending on current, wind etc)
@@commoguru I had wondered about the PWM speed controller question too. I switched from a Minn Kota Endura trolling motor that uses a heat sink speed controller to a Minn Kota PowerDrive that has what they call their "digital maximizer technology." I believe this is a PWM controller. The way I use the motor is for low speed trolling, 2 or 3 hours at a time. I only have an 78 AH battery and the bigger M-K PowerDrive takes less time to recharge than the smaller Endura did. (Either way my power demands are low enough that I'm not over-taxing even this small battery.) I'm thinking about using a solar panel to recharge the battery next summer just so I don't have to run a long extension cord out to the dock for recharging.
I have just powered my kayak with a 36 lbs trolling motor. It assist us while paddling. I chose two small lithium batteries which fit through a small porthole and keeps it out of the weather. Our range is three hours on setting 3 at a speed of almost 2 miles an hour. Since we have balance issues we needed the widest kayak we could find thus heavy to paddle.
We have an extra battery too. Pretty simple plus the smart 12v charger does a great job of keeping the batteries powered up before hitting the water.
I ran the simplest possible version of a "solar boat" on my local lake for a couple summers. 1x 50lbs-thurst motor, 2x 100AH deep cycle batteries, 1x 100watt panel. I would troll for maybe an hour or two to reach a destination, anchor/beach the boat in the sun while my kids swam for a couple hours and then troll back. Having two big batteries and assuming I would always end up with a net-loss of stored energy made me comfortable enough to omit the charge controller to keep the system super simple. Other than being slow it worked quite well.
This worked for me on my RV. You might want to check the electrolyte levels in your batteries once in a while to make sure you aren't boiling off too much water. If you have to add more than about 12 ounces of water a month to each battery you may need to consider a charge controller . . . or you could disconnect the solar panel periodically to reduce overcharging.
makes no sense when renogy wanderer controllers are $30 to be honest
Based on the fact that my batteries never once reached 100% SoC with the solar panel connected, I'd say that in my use case the extra $30 would have been the thing that made no sense. To be fair though my use case is fringe enough that I don't suggest anyone else do it this way. Basically I was willing to take on the extra hassle of manually protecting my batteries rather than paying for the convenience of a charge controller.
I used solar to charge a battery so we wouldn't have to carry it back and forth from a pond to charge. We didn't go on long trips and the boat wasn't used everyday so it worked great.
How big of a solar charger?
For emergencies having a solar panel to slowly charge batteries, power lights and horns is a good idea, but not for main propulsion on a small boat, more batteries would be simpler and effective
I wish you have included the numbers.
Here are some facts.
a 100watt panel puts out about 5.7 amps per hour under perfect conditions and that only happens for a couple of hours in a day, the rest of the day the output is much lower.
Now ill use my motors as a example. Its the haswing brushless 12v 65# thrust.
Being brushless it has a built in esc so its very efficient.
I run a shunt based meter while running my vessel.
The vessel is a kayak so its small and light.
At half speed iam pulling 24 amps and at full speed iam drawing 46 amps.
the 5 amps from a 100 watt panel isnt even going to make a dent in my run time.
And that 5 amps is only for a couple of hours. The rest of the day its more like 2.5 amps.
Anyone who says otherwise are fibbing!!
Math doesnt lie!!!
Thanks for sharing your real experience numbers!
Our math matches up - I figured that 6 100w panels might be able to do the job in ideal conditions. Six of those panels would totally cover my boat and cost quite a bit of money.
I was considering putting up some data and numbers, but decided to keep this video focused on the aspect that nobody else seems to mention which is the cost of the gear and how much space it would take.
Just run your motor at one tenth of the full power (at 10 %). When going 3,5 mph, the trolling motor only consume 100 W and 100W solar pannel produce just as much electricity as motor uses.If you have 2000 W solar pannel instead of 100 W, then you can run it the whole day long (twice the solar power to account for non ideal conditions).
Funny, I was pulling 3 100 watt panels that ran my Minn-Kota just fine.
I have 22ft sailboat with a 120w permanent solar glued onto the front deck. Its batterybank is always charged up when I come to use it with the 1000w brushed motors on it. It just works!
I absolutely LOVE your videos, Wayne! Keep making Greta content. I build solar powered electric boats as a hobby and my most recent project uses a 120W panel and a 54lb trolling motor. It's called the "solar express MK IV" and without people like you on TH-cam it would've been a lot harder to build! I agree that solar power certainly isn't enough to fully power my boat but it is enough to charge the battery very well while I'm not using it, for every one hour of full speed motoring it only needs about 4 hours in good sun.
Thanks! How many and what kind of batteries are you using on that setup?
@@WayneTheBoatGuy I've got one 100Ah 12V lithium battery, it's good because it can be run down to almost empty without any long term damage.
can you help me buying the right parts and finding the right gear?
@@bensteele4936 that's something most people don't factor in with an AGM battery. All that weight of a 100 ah battery and only 50 ah on tap sucks.
I have a 210 watt solar system that I have used to take my bedroom off grid.
I am amazed how well it works and how quickly my battery recharges everyday.
I have 410 watts in 4 panels but only need half that much.
I have been running two (2 watt) Colman solor batter maintainers for a 24v 80lb thrust minkota Terranova, these keep my two blue tops. I have run two 6 hour days including using the anchor lock in a river and never droppped below 25%. I run this setup on a 18.5' tracker aluminum bass boat.
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I have envisioned doing that sort of thing with a tiny trolling motor on a canoe or similar. The idea is that the solar panels are on a little styrofoam raft (or chain of such things) trailing along behind. Close to the water they won't catch much wind and you can have 600 watts trailing along behind you.
You could eliminate the battery entirely although I'd keep a small battery for voltage regulation and the occasional cloud passes between you and the sun, or go under a bridge or some other shadow situation.
This won't be effective for fishing of course since you are also trailing your hook, but for simple cruising and exploration of bayou and things like that, trailing solar panels behind your small boat would work well.
There's a guy in NZ who has a sort of catamaran setup with panels beside the main hull which is an interesting and possibly more durable and similar idea.
Nope would not work. Wind waves momentum of the raft
@@analogalbacore7166 and the extra drag would defeat the purpose of it. Just use a battery
This is The Ticket! Drag will not be even detectable if the raft is light weight.
I do this regularly, runs my radio and cooling fans too.
Everything you said makes sense. My boat (actually it’s two coleman canoes mated together) is the same way. I have a 4 horse yamaha to go upstream as far as I want to, then trolling motor on the way back. Two deep cycle marine batteries parallel connected will give us plenty of direction control and if it gets late, there’s always a little left for a small light if you need it
dude. i been thinking to make the hull between the kanoes wide enough for solar panels. easily fit 300-400 wats and a big trolling motor ... could also add a sail cause a catamaran is really stable.
I’ve been studying this subject for 6 months. The way you dumb down the process is helpful to me😃👍. It has been quite the challenge trying to do the math regarding, size of electric motor, number of batteries, the multi panel large footprint problem. Your presentation was superior. Series vs parallel is clear now. Thank you for your efforts 👍👍.
Please comment on whatever you know about the higher watt, higher 💰panels- flex vs rigid. It seems like if ya can afford these high end panels, we would cover fewer sq ft with the higher power panels. Please give me your thoughts on that option.
Thanks. Dan
You and I have probably been looking at many of the same videos/websites/forums etc. It seems that in some areas, used panels with higher output are easy to find and not expensive. I never see these things near me, and when I ask follow up questions on other comments that say how easy it is to find cheap and higher output panels they never respond back. It seems that in the next few years we might have panels that provide more watts per square foot and maybe electric motor options that are not expensive and use less electricity. When those things come along, it might be a game changer for many applications.
From what I have read, the flexible panels seem to have two disadvantages - they can get damaged more easily and they don't usually produce as close to their rated output as rigid panels.
If you had just a supplementary solar charger and the two batteries it should effectively give you unlimited range for the day with downtime recharge and the batteries will add great stability to the boat and you only need to put the solar panel up forward out of your way maybe like a little Bimini top or a windbreaker windscreen
Also putting a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) speed controller on the trolling motor would have a net reduction on the energy requirements. Typically a small trolling motor draws full amps at all speeds, with all speeds beneath top speed bleeding off energy into resistors which is lost as heat and lowers motor speed in the process. The PWM in contrast "chops" the DC current up by switching power on and off very quickly in relation to the speed desired; obviously full on at top speed and decreasing as lower speeds are selected. There is much less wasted energy as heat, and less load on the battery. This would make battery draw less, and less solar assist would be needed to top up the battery. I'll leave it to you to work out the details. Good explanation of solar chargers, controllers in your video!
Although a resistive speed control does waste power as heat, it still reduces current draw considerably at lower speeds.
Let's say your motor draws 36 amps at full speed. That represents 1/3 of an ohm of impedance. If you throw another 1/3 of an ohm of resistance in the circuit, you'll only draw 18 amps. Half the current, but 1/4 of the power since the voltage to the motor is also cut in half.
Low speed full amp draw is a myth that i see everywhere. A simple current test would prove that low speed draws considerably less current than high speed.
6.6A at F1 with Minn Kota endura c2 40.
This comment is technically inaccurate.
I'm glad you said "typically" because I've tested that with the Xi5 trolling motor. The Xi5 draws close to 50ah(625watts) at full speed and as I mention earlier is only draw 80 watts(6.4ah) at power level 3 out of 10.
Great video! I have a 13' Smokercraft with a 15hp 2-stroke Mercury & a 35 pound of thrust Minncota.I've extended my range by using 3 group 32 deep cycle batteries [one in the back & 2 up front] I connected them with jumper cable wire & proper battery fittings. Between the gas motor & fully charged batteries I can fish 5 days on the big lakes in Washington state. At 76 getting home is big to me --- Plan A is the gas motor, Plan B is the electric motor, Plan C is to row. Had to use Plan B twice --- took some time but those 3 big batteries never seem to die!! Solar just not practical ---don't bet your life on it!
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Well, this math is valid for USA maybe, but for South Eutope it is rather the oposite: Here 100 Ah deep cycle battery cost arround 200 eur (~usd) and 100W panel 60 eur (~usd). We have arround 250 sunny days a year. Panels have ideal conditions for maximum power from 8:00 AM until 5:00 PM. Before and after this time the produced power is less, but still something. With 2 panels or total 200W you get more than 11 hours of 10A supply current which is more than 110 Ah. Consider that 100 Ah battery may be discharged to 20% maximum, it means that you actualy have 80 Ah from a battery. Conclusion: 200W solar panel in sunny area offers more than 50% power per day than aditional 100 Ah battery.
Why not take the battery out of the circuit then?
Thank you for an honest, sensible evaluation of the solar panel / trolling motor hypotheses.
That was the point of this video!
I built my own charge panel but I I only use mine just to charge while we hang out in the water with the Radio ph ect on. So far so good its easy to forget how long you been drifting or anchored. After all its about the fun and keep it that way.
My experience with solar panels is they exceed their rates power under ideal situ. Also im always amazed how well they perform even on hazy days. Really depends on how dense the cloud cover is.
Depends on the boat and the size. I myself have a Breifcase of 2-100 watt panels with a controller. That is enough to charge while parked fishing which I am most of the time. The panels can then go with me to charge the batteries on land when camping. Not listening to a generator, People love me. Caring about others is worth the money. I do have the gen too, not being creepy.
The "parked while fishing" approach seems to work well for many people - thanks for sharing!!
A mast and sail with a little wind! 😂 I did buy a deep cycle lithium battery for a small boat for 100 dollars. It ran a 30 lb minn kota trolling motor for about six hours of on off fishing. It lasted about 4 to 5 hours on a windy day at a more consistent use. I did like the fact that it was really small and light to handle.
What size battery did you buy for $100? Was it maybe a 50amh battery? That would be almost equal to a 100amh lead acid battery.
And with my solar boat when not in use it will power part of my house needs!
I’ve considered adding a solar panel to my Jon boat while fishing. But it would take up too much space and limit movement.
I am partial to small gas powered engines particularly as auxiliary power for small sailboats. The Suzuki 2.5 hp LS at 31 pounds is perfect on my Lightning sloop (19 ft). With a small extra can of gas, the motor runs forever, and at 4 stroke is so quiet, it is barley more than an electric motor. Powering upriver at low/med throttle is almost like sailing . I hope Wayne can do a more complete review of this motor in a future episode for usage on sailboats!
Hello Wayne and viewers! Gas is at $2.20 per Litre or more in my corner of Western Canada. Probably the same all through-out the country.There are about 4 litres in an "American gallon" .(128 oz) That is $8.80 Canadian dollars for a U.S. gallon of go-juice! Getting up there! We drive or boat less than we used to CHEERS from here!
That certainly stings! Always good to hear from you!
Great video sizing up the options. One side point worth mentioning: If a two battery setup is something one would do every time going out, two 6 volts in series is worth considering. It avoids the parasitic drain issues that come with parallel setups. However, two 12 volts in parallel affords the option to bring only one on short range days. It does come down to preference.
I’m up in Alaska. My 100 watt panel kept my 80 amp battery topped up for around four hours in optimal summer solstice conditions, in a 13 foot pontoon raft with 55 thrust motor set at middle speed. I also oared the raft at the same time to cover more water. Got to explore connected lakes off of Lake Louise near Glennallen. Getting an extra battery though is the next step. Thanks for the math!
Yes, you are correct in your assumptions. You can probably make a custom made, ultra light (carbon) roof with wall to wall cells and use a specialized high efficient motor and light weight Lipo batteries but that would be VERY expensive but it would probably cost more than an expensive ski boat. This type of project would be good for a university team for a solar competition. Seems like i have seen this with solar cars. Even so, there are new breakthroughs in solar cells and solid state lithium batteries just around the corner. (They have been saying that for 10 years)
I already got a bunch of solar panels and equipment I got a 14 foot Jon boat i like to sit in the floor of the boat while I fish for a back support im thinking about mounting a 100w solar panel on the side of boat and putting it on rails so when I get to me fishing spot I can pull it up off the side and it bend over my head it would at like a shade umbrella while it’s putting some charge back into my battery idk what do y’all think
I think the extra battery would be the solution I would choose. Additionally I always keep a set of oars in the boat for those unexpected emergencies or mechanical trouble.
Yeah I always bring my 'spare motor' (which is a paddle) because I stink at using the oars!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy I do the same, paddle is the way to go!
No, it's not the solution. It's the opposite. You want a smaller battery with a lesser recharge rate. Sure you do more cycles, but that's how to design it properly. Also, this type of hull is too light and too small.
Thank you so very much for your video. I like hearing all sides of the conversion (including those that fellow viewers made in the comments) so that I can make the best informed decision for myself. Knowledge is power.
Glad it was helpful! There are so many factors including intended use and advances in technology!
What if I am using it just just for a amp and stereo think it we’ll help the battery last longer I got a eco-worthy 10w panel coming
what do you say about larger as in more powerful electrical motors? i would like to know your opinion on this matter? hope to hear from you. thanks.....
I have another video looking at some of the recent offerings - but only really looking at the upfront cost aspect, because that’s what’s important to many small boat owners.
Is 2023 The Year For Electric Outboard Motors for Boats?
th-cam.com/video/LUhcscm-t38/w-d-xo.html
Most of the time when I am fishing it is for several days and I am bushwhack camping for three days or more. I already have a solar setup that is fairly easy to scale-up. Now having an extra battery to trade with the one on the boat starts to make more sense than trying to have the boat be the place to solar charge the boat battery.
I bought a lifepo battery for a little over 500. The price hurt but I believe it extended my range by more than double and at a quarter of the weight.
I would like to try a LiFePo battery someday!
It will double. You have higher voltage (Constant > 13.00 volts) and you can discharge much lower than a lead acid. Lead acid recommends not to discharge below 50% state of charge. You can discharge a LiFePo4 till the BMS (Battery Management System) shuts you down, which is generally the amp hours stated on the battery. They do say not to do this on a regular basis, but an occasional complete discharge should not hurt it to bad. The BMS takes care of that for you.
Be safe!
Neat idea but I'd use 3 batteries if I needed too. But I think the optimum set up is a gas engine to get you from the dock to your fishing area and then switch to the eletric motor for quite fishing. Also you can get a 6 to 10 hp gas 4 stroke air cooled engine to make it easier
2 hrs is plenty on my pond boat. What do I need to charge my battery while it is docked? I have no electricity at my dock and I tired of hauling it to my barn to charge it.
Solar panels and a charge controller would probably work fine to recharge a battery when docked.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy thx
Excellent information! I’ve been wondering if having a panel onboard was worth it, now I know. Thank you sir!
The discussion needs to include amps. If the panel provides 50% it doubles the useable time. If it provides 50% it will charge the battery in less than 3 days. If you use the boat 2-4 days per week it could all work plus a ~4amp charger will recharge over night.
8amps is a good practical draw for a small boat. 50 usable amp-hrs in the battery. 6hrs of run time. 50W panel is 50% of draw to extend you to 9-12hrs depending on sun. That's a full day and 4amp charger over night will fully recharge the drained 50 amp-hrs.
Agree with all your points. The day may come when solar technology will do the job. Since you have both you can pick which one you need for the day or both.
I’m a true believer and user of a 100w solar panel on my 18.5 Nitro bass boat. Sir you are correct that the panel won’t charge as fast as the draw while running the TM but if you’re anchored or just drifting that panel will add some charge back to the battery(s). A 2amp solar charge for a hour is significant when you’re running low on battery power. Even if it gives you 30 minutes more of running time that may be enough to get you back safely to the dock. I made a T bracket and I use one rod holder to keep the panel angled upwards towards the sun, the panel came with a 30a controller and I added longer 12awg wires to reach the batteries. I fish on Reservoir electric motor only but they do allow you to fire up your gas motor (no wake speed) for emergency purposes to get you back to the dock.
Nice!
Like others in the comments here have said, it depends on your application. Of course, you are correct to say adding another battery is cheaper than adding solar, but maybe you need to keep the boat as light as possible. Then the lightweight flexible panels might be a good idea regardless of cost. But then, they say those don't last very long due to heat damage. Maybe add a mist sprayer or some other way to keep them wet? But I digress. My boat is so tiny that more lead batteries really makes an impact. Solar or lithium could help. Or, I am getting old (59). Maybe I need the whole system to be as light as possible to be able to keep doing this in my old age. There are always "what if" conditions, and I'm not saying you are wrong in the least. For the conditions you laid out, you are 100% correct.
Here's another thought I have been toying with. What about a solar barge that is towed behind the boat? It would be light weight and close to the water, so no wind drag. I wonder how much drag the barge itself would create?
Oh wow thank you for this important information.. I bought a turbo 35 27lbs thrust for my canoe. I bought two 60 w photovoltaic module solar for camping and was considering using it for the trolling motor... I'm glad I caught your video... Also, I don't support lithium harvesting after learning children in Congo Africa are mining it.. Ok thank you friend, marine battery it is... (*!*)
well i did a small cart with a 300w scooter motor, and a few hundred watt solar panels. id' always get the voltage low, but it takes time for it to recharge even though its pushing out power. its just not the same as stored power. i dont know why
Right On!!! Thanks for the reminder that was not an actual solar panel. I almost bought the wrong thing.
lol
My setup on a 27-foot 6,000 lb sailboat is one 35 lb thrust trolling motor and one 52 lb thrust trolling motor each operating at half-speed with one 240 W $35 used solar panel and one 300 $250 watt solar panel with a pulse width modulation controller $60 running to a 5 amp hour lithium iron phosphate battery $35. Yes you heard that right a 5 amp hour lithium iron phosphate battery. You don't need a lot of storage because you're running off the panels. I crank the motor is up to the highest speed that that day's sun will allow me to use without the voltage on the battery dropping which you can tell via the pulse with charge controller. It'll move a 6,000 lb sailboat at approximately two-and-a-half knotts all day in the sun.
LIFEPO4 is the only way to go regardless of the initial cost, they can last 10+ years and 10,000 charging cycles. Plus you would save a significant amount of weight and space. A brushless motor would also dramatically improve the efficiency of the system.
I was just talking about that. My 116 lbs of flooded lead-acid batteries still have another couple of years left, so as they go bad, I will be replacing them with LifePo4 batteries. I just didn't have the money when I put my fishing canoe together. Now, I am regretting the decision. Who knows? Maybe in a couple of years Tesla's "4680" batteries will be on the market and I can skip the whole lithium-iron-phosphate generation, altogether.
Brushless motors aren't really that much more efficient. Just 10% according to one article I read.
I had a puffy life-po once .
Reality is that not all cells/pouches can last 10.000 cycles.
They should make it easy to swap the bad one.
@@joewoodchuck3824 The speed controllers are also more efficient with a brushless set up, so in real world conditions you can expect to see a 20-30% better efficiency from brushless motor / speed controller.
@@theowink a 12 volt LiFePO4 battery typically has 4 cells. Fairly easy to diagnose a bad cell and replace it. Harder with Lithium Ion, you might have 100+ smaller cells in a 12 volt battery. Two totally different animals. I have never had a problem with LiFePO4, but have had so many Li-ion and Li-po batteries go bad, I lost track. I also keep Li-ion and Li-po batteries in a steel box, have also had a few explode.
This was extremely helpful. Thank you!
The other option to help your range would be to use a pulse width modular instead of the speed controller in the trolling motor. (Lots of videos on this) One of the biggest issues with your motor is the draw is the same no matter how fast you are going. The speed controller in the trolling motor again uses heat to lower the output to the motor. Where a "PWM" will control the speed far more efficiently and less drain on your battery.
I have heard about these.
If you get a "brushless" trolling motor they are mostly if not all pulse width modulated and much more efficient than brushed motors, but check manufacturer. They also last much longer.
What electric motors offer this PW modulation as a stock component to the motor?
@@tango-bravo Pretty much all of the bow-mounted from minn kota.
The draw is the same no .matter how fast I'm going? So why do I get double the time on low sleep than on high speed?
nice video. I think using the motor as you duggest short trips to and from. I would use 1 or2 panels on 1 battery. To alleviate the necessity of having to charge battery in any alternative fashion. after all is said and done. It would be an excellent form of off grid water transport worth having in many scenarios. Happy Trails!
Spot on! I run an electric shallow water work boat with electric mud motors, small electric blowers for weed less operation, electric launch wheels and litthium batteries from a Chevy volt....along with a small propane generator and 1200 watts of overhead solar panels! I literally have thousands invested to operate a 14 ft jonboat with 4 ft paneled outriggers and I'm in the middle of a major redesign and refitting. If all I wanted to do is go fishing for an afternoon, none of this would be worthwhile!
Sounds like you have some cool toys! Thanks for watching!!
Great video answered everything I really wanted to know 👍
I was thinking the same thing, get another battery. I was also thinking it would be more economical for my home just to buy the battery bank and forget the panels.
I could charge the batteries at night from the grid when the power is cheap and use it during the day when it's expensive.
To power my 14 ft canoe for an unlimited range, I use a 55 lb trolling motor + two series-29 lead-acid batteries + one small gas generator setup* + one small gaff-rigged sail + one mark-I double-ended paddle. I rarely use the generator setup*.
Half of the time on the water I use just the electric motor; 33% of the time I use the small sail all by itself; 15% of the time I use a combination of the sail and the electric motor ( low throttle); 2% of the time I use the generator setup* to directly power the trolling motor. I use a 15 watt solar panel (with a diode) to trickle-charge one of the batteries while I fish or camp. Back at home, I use a 125v 40 amp charger to charge both batteries at once and I use the 15 watt solar panel (with a diode) to keep them topped off when not in use.
* my generator setup is comprised of a cheap 1000w generator (800w continuous), a cheap 750w inverter, and a good 12v AGM motorcycle battery (350 CCA). The whole setup fits inside my customized crate and weighs around 40 pounds (including the gas and the reserve metal 1-liter refill bottle). When I hook this setup directly to the trolling motor I can only use about half-throttle because of the limitation of the little motorcycle battery. The canoe scoots right along at half-throttle and I seldom go faster than that, anyway (3.5 knots). The generator will run for more than 6 hours on the generator's 2-liter tank. I have never had to use the reserve gas from my 1-liter refill bottle so unless I am going out for many days, I tend to keep my generator only half-full so that I can more easily empty the tank. After returning home I use a squeeze-bulb to empty the tank back into the gas-can and run the generator long enough to top-off the motorcycle battery while the carburetor runs out of gas. It is a bad idea to keep gas in the fuel tank or carburetor for a long time.
I like the setup but that seems like a lot of weight in a 14 foot canoe.
@@robertrichmond3074 The canoe has an 800 lb capacity.
Let's add it up:
2 series 29 deep-cycle batteries at 58 lbs each,
minn-kota motor at 30 lbs,
generator box setup at 40 lbs,
double-ended paddle at 2 pounds,
sail at 2 lbs,
mast at 3 lbs,
solar panel at 2 lb.
It all adds up to about 195 lbs, which is about the mass of another person.
We can take it further:
me at 205 lbs,
fishing and camping gear at 60 lbs (including food and water).
That puts my total cargo weight at 460 lbs, which is slightly more than half of the canoe's rated capacity. I do, however, put the big batteries and generator box in the front half of the canoe unless my son comes along, in which case I put them in the center.
When my son comes with me we add:
teen-aged male at 170 lbs,
extra gear, food and water at 20 lbs.
We are still 150 lbs under the max load, so we can still bring home a bunch of fish. Of course, when he comes along, the canoe sits a bit lower in the water and we assume a slightly slower speed. Back at home, I have a Gorilla Cart that I use to haul it all to and from the canoe and my garage.
@@sailor-rick sounds good,
I have a 50 watt solar panel on my pedal kayak. It charges 2X 12V 7ah batteries that run by fish finder and intermittently my fresh water bait tank. I generally go home at the end of the day with full batteries.
my kayak has 24lb thrust on low speed it is 7 amps. the solar panel averages on a good day 2 amps so it looses 5 amps per hour. but my battery stays charged so is ready an for trolling it adds an hour or so during the day
Off of a 100 watts I usually see 65. I have 200 watts with a 1500 wh battery lithium ion. Solar generator. This generator runs a refridge/freezer at 55 watts , it cycles on and off on DC power and will last about 24 hrs. 1000 watts will give you about 650 watts of solar charging. Off of 200 watts I have seen it get up to 182 from solar panels but usually 200 watts will be 135 watts. 65 % of 100 on a good day and usually about 100 watts in Kansas. It will charge my solar generator and run the freezer. 24 hours as long as I have sun. So I always have a gas generator for back up. I would run both like you said go out with gas let your solar charge and drive back on electric or just to save gas or emergency back up which is always a good thing.
I fully agree. The only conditions under which it will work is if you use the motor say only 20% of the duration of your fishing outing, which in my experience is a realistic guess. However, the second battery does not care if it is cloudy or raining, and is financially a better proposition with technology as it is today.
Exactly!
I really enjoy how right you try to be to the facts "about 60 pounds" shows real weight
I turned my normal 3ish hour trip to 5ish with a 30 watt solar panel , I just use the motor sparingly though. But the battery dies alot harder with the solar panel like there is no indication it is low. It works fine then all of a sudden it's barely able to fight the wind if I wait to long.
Interesting that you motor dies harder. I wonder if it has to do with charge rate - because I've heard slow charging is "better" and maybe your panel is charging fast. But it's nice to hear that a small panel does help when you aren't running all the time!
Great video Wayne. For now, doubling up on the batteries is the best way to extend your range. More cost effective too.😊
I’m currently adding 2 solar panels to the roof of my t-top on a 21ft center console. I have 4 batteries on the boat total (2 in series running 24v for the trolling motor) 1 for my main motor, and 1 for the console/accessories. I’m hoping that by having 2x 200watt solar panels will keep all my lights, navigation, gps, etc. charged and topped off while on fishing trips! I’m not exactly sure if this will be enough to go for what I’m trying to do but I’d assume it could also be a very good backup plan if the main battery was to ever die for some reason.
I don't see why that wouldn't work. A lot of it comes down to having the correct charge controller and fuses in place and the current draw and a T top is a great place to mount panels!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Agree! I have bought 4 different charge controllers. My opinion is Victron controllers are by far the best. They are more expensive, but once I owned one, I will never go back to the others.
those have to be the most expensive solar panels. I have 1.2kw at home, and paid 998$ less than a dollar /watt. I agree with the video points made. there is a reason large sail boats use windmills, they pack more power into a smaller footprint. of course like sun, wind is unpredictable. but you could put a 900watt windmill on that small boat and get a decent charge rate
You have to take into consideration wind and rain too as a small boat can soon become flooded with water how are you going to protect the electrics if your boat gets swamped?
What about like a power station like one of those anker or jackery?
Put a T-top on my 17' key west. Fishing with radio, fish finder and lights just needed to offset the draw while the motor was not running. Just put a 100w BougeRV flexible panel on top of the T-top. $140 total with controller. If I get 2A on the water I'm good. I do have alternator charging from the motor was well and a pull cord if my math is wrong. lol
I have a 16 ft catamaran Hobie cat. Sail mast off. Two 100 watts across front. When sun is perfect panels put out about 4.5 amps 17 volts. My 15 lb thrust motor uses 12 volts at im thinking 7 amps. But clouds hurt this. So I’m using a battery charge controller on each panel. To a lawn mower battery. 320 amphr. This battery can run motor about hour. But idea is to smooth out the highs and lows. I’m considering setting up to be able to by pass battery on very bright day to motor so I can use the 17 volts that will move boat along nice. Other wise I’ll be locked in at controlled charge level.
what if you incorporated the solar panels into the flooring? no need for a roof then and you can get much more panels.
not disagreeing but how often are you running your engine at max draw or even at all as a percentage? so a fiarly small solar setup might double your range if you stop here and there to do some fishing.
EDIT: Ok you speak to this later in the video
Hello! Nice video! Could you please suggest me a light weight battery for my trolling motor HASWING OSAPIAN 40LBS?
Thanks !
If weight is most important - a lithium battery is going to be much lighter than a lead acid or AGM type. However, they are usually twice as expensive as the other types of batteries. The other factor is range/run time. A 100 Amp-hour battery has much more run time than a 50 Ah battery, but of course it is bigger, heavier, and more expensive.
Actually, my Newport 62lb thrust L series is a 12v trolling motor.
1.5 hp.
Another battery + solar =) And I would use the flexible type of solar panels because they are lighter and boat will not be top heavy if you build a roof construction. Solar panels are there to give you extra hours, but it will charge you batteries when boat is not used - for free. 2 batteries = approx 2000-2400w and use 4 flexible panels. Do you have spec. of your motor?
And how many hours do you need to run the boat non-stop?
2 lithium batteries, I myself am deciding on what to use on my Viking profish lite kayak.
I totally agree with you, solar panels are not the solution in extending your battery range.
I know one thing that happens often in our shop, when trolling motor come in for service that are not variable speed, is that after a short time the lifepo4 batteries are notorious in burning out the rheostat at speed 1,2, on those trolling motors regardless of # thrust.
Intermittent use of these motors will be fine, however, trolling at slow speeds will destroy the rheostat, and that is something no one has addressed yet.
That's pretty interesting - both the rheostat and the LiFoPo4 battery "real world" info! Thank you for sharing!!
The newer trolling motors are much more efficient! They now have electronic speed controls. You do not have this problem anymore. Amp draw on power setting on 3 only draws around 6 amps and on 10 close to 50 amps. This was calculated with a Victron Smart Shunt.
Down here in Queensland, Australia it's very sunny. I have 2.1m plastic boat with a 350W canopy panel. It can move the boat on its own, but of course a cloud will stop it. Moreover, the speed is very low. My trolling motor needs at least 10A to go at a reasonable speed.
So are you running a panel with no batteries?
@@WayneTheBoatGuyNo - it's not reliable enough. Just increase the time I can be out.
add wind generotr 400 wwats troñ mirt maxoum369 wats 40 watt chagng full liad
I want to build a sun deck/casting platform for my 12ft jon. Would be rad to make one with a used solar panel and wire it to a trickle charger so my boat is always ready to rock. I also could become an island nomad on the lakes with free charging. From fully dead, my tiny trickle charger takes like 3 days to fully charge it up. My 55lb motor runs for about 5hrs on my big deep cycle. I mainly use my boat on mountain lake camping trips, so itll be charging all day even if im not in the boat. The only other way i could charge would be to jumper cable it to my truck while it runs for a few hours. Thing is, those panels are pretty heavy for my little rooftop boat.
Thanks Wayne, you made a lot of good points with using an electric trolling motor on a smaller boat. I am actually thinking of putting an electric motor as backup on my 14’ (4.01 meter) aluminium runabout. I would most likely be using it in a river and lakes but not sure how powerful it would be against a flowing tide? Or do I just get a little 2hp motor like you have.
Cheers…
I've got a 55lb on a 15' fibreglass, does 3-4kph flat out.it will hold against a strong current but that's about it. Works well for slow trolls around bays and harbour structure for fishing.
A cheap electric trolling motor might not be good enough if your currents and tides are significant. Around me, there isn't much of a current in our river.
@@davesboatingfishinggaming thanks Dave
@@WayneTheBoatGuy thanks Wayne
There is a big drop in price per Watt from 300W panel size and up. Anything smaller is a rip-off aimed at ignorant consumers.
I can only comment on local prices in South Africa - a Canadian Solar 300W panel will cost the equivalent of $100. A 20A EP Solar mppt is $75.
The Panel measures 5ft 6in by 3ft 3in and weighs 41lb. You can easily mount it overhanging the bow to leave you enough usable space. The weight up front will nicely balance the weight of the battery in the stern and allow the hull to run at much lower drag.
A 40lb Riptide draws roughly 200W at speed 4 and it gives me 4mph on a 13ft dingy.
A solar panel will give you much longer service life than a second lead-acid battery.
Even a small panel can benefit the battery. Every amp that you get from solar is one less amp required from the battery. Reduced battery current means you actually get more usable amp-hours from your battery. Depending on the battery's Peukert factor, this would be around 10% additional capacity by reducing current from C/4 to C/8.)
What does make sense id to use solar for aux power on a sail boat. The aux. motor is only needed in & out of the marina and to get home if the wind dies. So you use the solar to charge a battery. So TODAY we are switching to a Hangkai 48V 7hp and a small 4 battery bank used wheel chair batteries. If this works I get the solar panel.
Thanks for the info.
Yeah - sailboats also usually have some decent surfaces for mounting solar panels!
I have been thinking of using solar as a back just to charge while "at the holes". I am running 2- group 27 deep cycles run parrellel on 2 - 30lb thrust motors and barely make it back to the dock sometimes. After seeing this kinda wonder it is worth it and just get another back up battery.
It really depends on how long you're out there (not running the motors), the weather, and how much space you have for a panel.
just get scort 145 hybre8 hour 8 moh 64 míke tejsa cen cell 74 mioe teltic range
On my bass boat, the starting battery is maintained by the engine, but I use solar for the other battery. It only works because I go out on the weekend and park the boat trailer in the sun during the week.
Yeah a small panel can work really well in those situations!
I have a 12'6" Bassmaster pro plastic boat and I've powered it for years with various old 2 strokes, and recently switched to using a 42lb thrust minn kota. It is not quite enough power and also gets warm after 2-3 miles and needs to cool down. I've decided to use an AGNI/Lynch high power DC motor which is 15kw capable however I'm just going to mate it with an old lower unit and run it at 3kw max. I'm also building a solar canopy that can switch to being a sail, so far I am using 2 100ah deep cycle marine batteries but when I switch to the AGNI power unit I'm going to upgrade to 200ah of 48v lithium. I haven't determined the best batteries for that use case however, I'm leaning towards 20ah ebike batteries but they're very expensive
if you could mount a single 200W renogy panel on the bow. that pushes 12A at peak temperature at the right angle, and 8.5A at 35C on a 30 pound thrust motor, at first gear only uses around 5-6 amps. on paper, you could make it work. i put 2x 40W panels on the front of my boat, just because its easier to leave it on the boat 24x7 for a week of camping, than having to remove the battery, setting up the panels. not to mention, you loose out on precious charging time while fishing if you leave the panels on shore. I use panels to charge my jackery and the boat batteries, I was thinking of replacing the 2x40w panels with a renogy 100W or similar, but has to be minimum 100W otherwise i would not have enough power to fish from 6AM to sun up
On certain applications I do see a benefit to have solar panels. Wayne's boat not so much. Especially if you like to fish. Having 6 panels overhead would create so much wind resistance. It would make the boat hard to maneuver and look ridiculous. I use to run two AMG 100Ah batteries all day with a 41 thrust motorguide as my primary on a 12' aluminum boat. 154lbs of batteries + motor. Switched to one (27lbs) 100Ah lithium lost 127lbs in batteries and then added 9.9hp Mercury of 84lbs and a 3 gallon tank. So ya I did almost added all the weight back. So my primary motor being gas I can fish 3 or 4 days with one charge to my battery. No gas motor I could run electric 9 hours on lithium. Charges way faster then AGM or lead acid. 50A Max on the one I purchased. If I run the same 2 AGM's and gas motor and gas tank the weight would be 256lbs.
2 batteries needed, depending on time you go for haha plus oars
Great analysis on the pros and challenges
Great info, and price comparison 👍.
I tried this on my canoe. The best output I got was 60% to 70% of the panel's rated capacity while sitting flat. It was much less in the morning, evening, and winter when the sun's angle was more acute. The panel could only charge at a rate close to the draw at midday, in full sun.
I worked up a course on the lake and ran until the battery no longer was driving the motor at max speed, with and without panel. The range was only a little more with panel. If the wind came up, there were, at times, issues of stability that were not noticeable without panel. Outrigging would most likely solve that problem.
The 175 watt flexible monocrystaline from renogy is good and light i have one. Would be great fornthe boat
I run a solar kit on my canopy but that's to offset the draw for the radio, lights (at night) and fans (Florida can get hot). Any net gain after that is just a bonus imo.
That's cool. Do you have a seperate 'house battery' circuit on your boat?
@@WayneTheBoatGuy no, in the off chance there's any issues I tried to make things as simple as possible for my boys. The trolling motor is on its own fuse but the batteries are in parallel (2x 100 amp/hr) and the wiring is similar to a house, a few circuits off a breaker and switches for everything.
About a year ago I was on a sailing boat in Spain. And they has three panels which were pulling in the same power as was going out. This was for a 30' sailing yacht. I guess if you're living in the murky backwoods....you've got a problem. In the Med, this isn't the same
Greta video, thanks for metric measurements, solar panel great idea but problem is there's no sun in Finland 😂,
thank you for your reply. my ex son in law has an electric motor which you might consider antique , it being at least 20 years old. but it moves his 16 ft. (bass) boat around quite well. i can't recall the name but it has a large top end sort of like a gas driven unit. it has a white color and i believe a ton of batteries. but with that being said, i am too poor to play with those numbers. a14 ft boat and motor is my dream and 1500 $ would be stretching my cash limit. thank you for your info and see you on the web.
I just bought a sailboat with an electric trolling motor. The previous owner would charge them at home, then schlepp them down the dock to the boat. As there’s no shore power where the boat is stored, I’m considering a solar powered trickle charger and spare my back some grief. My concern is knowing how much power I have remaining in the batteries. It’s easy to see how much gas is in the tank of an outboard and my cell phone let’s me know how much juice I have left. Is their an accurate gauge available for a trolling motor running on a couple of deep cycle marine batteries?
I "think" you could buy a cheap volt meter and check them on the boat right before you head out. I plan to play with volt meters some more in the future because when a 12 volt deep cycle battery like mine is "fully charged" it is something like 12.8 volts and apparently when they're 'flat' they're like 11 volts - so it seems to come down to knowing how to read the numbers.
There’s guys in Indonesia, making fiberglass speed boats that do 30 mph don’t have a battery and yes they cover the top of the boat but what happens when fuel runs out
I suggest to use an HJT or TOPCon solar bifacial panels 600W... it is a 2,3m x 1,1m. Anyway I agree with you, at the end not enough power yet from solar panels, need a bit more time.
I use solar for boats and bikes but my panels are on my house and I just take the charged batteries with me. Works for me and the few hours a day I use them👍
For the cost of going solar you could buy a top of the line electric motor powered with a Lithium battery. The range and speed on them are very good. But it's a lot of money for a small boat. I hope to continue to run my little 2-cycle Johnson for many years to come. But if it were to be banned this is the option I would be forced to go with. Hopefully the cost will have come down by then. (As an aside, I wonder if anyone is trying to use a small wind turbine on a boat to keep batteries charged. Though this too would have many of the same types of problems to overcome).
Good points! When I was working on this video, I looked up small wind options. Lots of sail boaters report that they generate MUCH less electricity than a solar panel.
I believe the brand name is Torqueedo
@@innergoof19 Yes - and ePropulsion is another brand
I was looking at this. I would consider using a small camping generator.
Interesting. The math is what is concerning me on my project. I have a 20hp 2 stroke that has a stator. My plan was to run engine to fishing spot and let small 10w solar just charge up for radio or small electronics needed while fishing. The boat engine alone should keep the battery pretty topped off. But i dont know how to figure out if its worth investing into.
In your situation, I would be tempted to try a little solar panel. The draw of a radio and/or other electronics will be very small. If you're really concerned, a jump box might be something to bring along for the ride the first few times you try it.
buy solar radios mine 25 hirs ²000 mga 40 mha solar ell 25 hiyr baryte life
My 24 ft pontoon boat is used just about every day. Been sitting in the water for about 4 straight years and runs on 1 deep cycle 100amphr battery with 2 panels that sit sideways off the back. Generally it's just relaxing pond duty cruising around a 3 acre pond fishing. Panels catch the morning sun and trickle til dark. Has been ready for duty every time. Stays about 13.5 volts. Got tired of my charge controllers getting ruined so don't use one anymore. Charges at 18v but has never made it past 14 volts ever. But if fully charged and possibly over charged... Still shows 13.8 max.