The league could have used a couple of these great defenders in last night's All-Star game, huh? lol. How many teams are better than the Ultimate Pistons in the East?? CORRECTION: People are freaking out about no Rasheed Wallace, and that's valid. I only forgot to put him on the honorables. I considered him for the roster, but just decided against it, because behind solid bigs like Wallace, Lanier, Rodman and Laimbeer, there just won't be many minutes. I can promise you he'll be on the Portland team though, thats for sure
Having Pistons season tickets since '88, I'd make 3 changes: -Tayshaun 2nd SF, DeBusshere 13th man -Sheed 11th man, Faust out -Dave Bing 12th man, Stackhouse out The other 10 picks are PERFECT! 👍
@@ahkeem0 I agree his best years were in Portland, but he was still an all star in 2006 and 2008 (and even top 15 in mvp voting in '08). Plus he's a big that would add spacing, something this team desperately needs
I'd trade Foust and gimme "Tbe Microwave" Vinnie Johnson. He was an instant bucket off the bench and as you said they'd have trouble spacing the floor. With Vinnie, he'd help to plug that gap immensely 🔥🔥🔥
Dave Bing was a playmaker who excelled at driving the ball to the hoop and either scoring or dishing off to a teammate. He was a top scorer in the NBA during his career, averaging over 20 points per game.
@@sirbradfordofhousejonesI couldn’t agree with you more. Stackhouse over Bing was a real head scratcher. I usually agree with whatever Johny has to say but some of his picks for these all time teams confuse me.
@@henrypope4225This is Jonny from my other account, but I’ll explain my logic. Usually when it comes to spots 12 and 13, I try to fill out the roster with things the teams are lacking. A prime Stackhouse could provide scoring and some floor spacing, which this team desperately needed. As great as Bing was, we don’t know how he could do as a 3 point shooter. Some people will suggest Rasheed Wallace, and yes, that would address some shooting, but I also don’t see him getting many important minutes behind Wallace, Lanier, Rodman and Laimbeer. I’m open to other suggestions, but for me, the 12th and 13th spot is where you fill in the glaring gaps for your team, so I won’t always pick simply the most talented or proven player left on the board
As crazy as it seems to say, Chauncey is my all-time fav PG. Not the BEST, just my favorite, much like that 04 Pistons team is my 2nd favorite team behind my championship Nuggets, of course. I’m so happy to finally see him as a HOF finalist. He was the perfect leader for the greatest underdog team ever, and let’s not forget that he took Melo and my Nuggets to the WCF. Great video as always, Jonny ❤
Initially had him on the roster, but then decided to take him off because of all the great bigs, and then just forgot to write him down on the honorables afterwards. My bad. He SHOULD be on the honorables. He's definitely gonna be on the Blazers though, because peak Wallace was special.
It’s so sad that the history of the Pistons is forgotten because of how bad we are right now. People are starting to think Detroit is a poverty franchise. It is heartbreaking
@@hookseybaby I’m not talking about now. Our franchise is horrible right now. I’m talking about historically. The pistons are so bad right now that people are forgetting how good we were in the past
I'm glad you started Lanier over Laimbeer. Lanier is one of the most underrated players in NBA history. However, I'm one of the many who believes Dave Bing needs to be in the top 13. I understand the reasoning you stated later in the thread, but the man was named to the NBA top 50 and top 75 lists.
Hard to think of rotation players and not consider Vinnie Johnson, he had so many great moments for Detroit. Lindsey Hunter also came to mind, fantastic on-ball defender who could cover bigger guys. Rasheed and Mahorn were also beasts, both underrated defenders. Clifford Robinson, Antonio Mcdyess and John Salley also, but a tier below.
this video made me realize a Scottie Pippen, Kobe, MJ, Rodman and Ben Wallace modern day small ball (but not too small 6'6-6'10) lineup would a nightmare and probably the best wing/atheltic/skillfull and defensive dominating team ever due to sheet wills and competitiveness
This team now would be very good in the 80's it would have been so tough, physically and mentally that beating the would have been almost impossible even for the greatest from this series
There has never been a better wrench in the machine as Lindsey Hunter. Whenever the opposing offence got on a roll, Hunter would come in with fresh legs and harass the PG until they were out of rhythm. That one quality alone was so valuable and reliable it tempts me to put him on my Ultimate Pistons Team.
I think people forget that Bill Laimbeer could shoot threes. He just didn't often because no one thought a 7 footer should be behind the arc in those days.
The correction is in the pinned comment. Narrowly missed the roster due to the great bigs hogging all the minutes, but he SHOULD have been on the HM list
@@jonnyarnett it happens plus it's YOUR list. I'm biased because that's my second favourite player but if I could put a bid on a "How good was Rasheed Wallace" video now, let me do that 😂 I've been a fan for years now and your takes are typically in alignment with mine so continue this series as well as everything else that you do. It is appreciated.
I hate the Pistons, but I didn't realize how many of these players that I loved to watch. Lanier, Laimbeer, Thomas, Joe D, Hill, Mr. Big Shot (the King of College Hill), Dantley, and the Worm. I did not expect this team to be this good nor to have such a difficult time making the last three players... Dave Bing's gotta be there, Dantley, Rasheed (whom I personally detest, but he was a monster), Mahorn, Long, Tripucka, and even Mark Aguirre (who's best days were behind him before landing in Detroit). Also, Rodman did not play much PF in Detroit (according to my memory). I do remember in the 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys that one of them said, "Every night there was going to be a game and a fight. And we were going to win at least one of them." This is a nasty team.
I've debated whether or not Dantley should be on the team. He brings an offensive boost that certainly couldn't hurt. But he had very well-known chemistry issues with Isiah. How much of that was his fault is unclear, but it's no secret that he wanted to be "the guy" on the team, and he'd have even more competition for that role on this Ultimate squad. On the other hand, they did go down to the wire with prime Showtime in '88, and down to the wire with prime Bird-McHale-Parish Celtics in the ECF in '87. Winning cures a lot of team issues, and maybe things would have smoothed out if two or three possessions in those series go differently. Still, looking at the overall makeup of this team, if I want scoring threats, Bing, Hill, and Lanier give me that, and all of them show a willingness to put the team first (again, not saying Isiah didn't play a part in the rift with Dantley. But you simply can't make an Ultimate Pistons team without Isiah).
I think this is an interesting question of that style of basketball are they playing? This Pistons team would be pretty underrated in terms of 3 point shooting (Dumars is a career 38.6%, Rip had two seasons where he was over 44% from 3, if Rasheed was there he was a master of the trick shot, you can see Zeke and Laimbeer developing one), just they all played in eras where no one ever took them or the league was just starting to figure out you can build a sustainable offence around it. If they played today, you could see them along with Billups each shooting 6 threes a game.
Dumars is the most underrated shooting guard in nba history. Not exactly sure where I would rank him but he was awesome. This is coming from a die hard bulls fan who hated the entire city of detriot during the 80s
Hi! i wanted to request a video on your take on the most ENTERTAINING teams of all time (7sol suns, lob city, showtime, or even teams who played beautiful bball like the 2014 spurs) i had seen NOBODY do a video like this
One of my favorite teams personally is the 97 Rockets with Hakeem, Drexler and Barkley. Also, I’m biased as they come, but the 05 Sonics and 90’s Sonic teams are cool.
No joke, I literally had that already written down as a video idea. Thats gonna happen at some point. Should be a fun comments section on that one, because its all about personal preference.
Zeke and Joe D were more than sufficient from beyond the arc. Recency bias may have me putting Sheed over Foust, but other than that, can’t really argue with you on any selection or placement.
Detroit Basketball!! Pistons team I scary physically grid teams down with their suffocating defense and rebounding. Zeke, Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, Bob Leiner, RIP, Prince, Mr. Big Shot.
I think that blake is getting slept on, and I believe that he would be a better fit to this team than Foust. He could help a bit with his 3pt shooting and overall scoring, because Wallace and Rodman ain't got a whole lot of it.
Yeah, Blake actually has a really good case for this team. Since Jonny's rules let you pick a single-season version of a player, 2019 Blake was quite formidable, and may be just what they need. PF may historically be Detroit's weakest position (unless you cheat and slide Rodman or Ben into that spot), and he fills that, gives over two dozen ppg on over 46% shooting, and over 36% from 3. Solid rebounding, too.
This was an interesting team. The seven players from the two championship squads were easy selections, and Bob Lanier and Grant Hill are the best Pistons to never win. I enjoyed learning about the other six players.
No respect for Dave Bing. I love Dumars, Billups, & Hamilton, but Dave Bing should've been either on the 2nd unit or possibly a starter alongside Isiah. I'm shocked you left him off.
Agreed. Lanier's probably the better overall player, but Laimbeer has the chemistry, that "proto-stretch 5" status, and could get in opponents' heads and get to the line (where he shot very well). He could play aggressive and if he happens to get into foul trouble, then opponents get to look forward to dragging a fresh Lanier up and down the court.
I would definitely have Dave bing somewhere on the roster. I think since there are already two point guards who are great facilitators, there is no need for Bing to faciliatate. But I would have him either be a backup shooting guard over Rip Hamilton or coming from the bench over Stackhouse or Prince.
I honestly feel that this is an ultimate team that might go farther in the ultimate playoffs than people might expect. There's just SO much defense it's hard to imagine them having a bad night.
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I'm actually going in alphabetical order of the teams names, which means the Raptors are next. I've already finished the script, and my editor should be working on it soon. The schedule is.... Raptors Rockets Spurs Suns Thunder Timberwolves Trail Blazers ____ COMPILATION, which includes... Warriors Wizards
@@jonnyarnett I know it’s asking for a lot, but a defunct franchises ultimate team could be cool. Highlight guys from places like the Bullets, Redskins, or Olympians. Though I fully understand why it might not make sense to do so. Loving the series and look forward to the rest.
My team !!!!! Can’t wait before I watch I’ll guess 04 pistons starting line up (5) Zeke Joe Hill Bill Rodman Vinny (and/or Cade 😁) Rick or Drummond for size
-Yes, the one I've been waiting for! Some very interesting pulls here (I was expecting DeBusschere, but Foust was a surprise). I like the mindset of mostly sticking with Bad Boys and Going to Work squads, then plugging in a few offensive sparks like Hill and Lanier. -I've seen debate about Stackhouse, and my instinct is to go with Bing. It's tricky, because Stack's 3-point shooting is a known quantity, while Bing played before the 3-point line. But even without it, he cleared 27ppg twice as a Piston, and even though he tended to be a shoot-first PG, was still a better facilitator than Stack, and also a better rebounder. I feel like a version of him playing with a 3-point line would be the bigger scoring and spacing threat, while also offering more in other phases of the game. Also, and this is really subjective, but everything about him in his playing days and afterward indicates the same "team-first" and "focused on fundamentals" attitude that was essential to both of Detroit's championship eras (for similar reasons, Hill should mesh with this roster really well, even if he never got the chance in reality). -Indeed, Detroit's guard play would be terrifying. Isiah, Dumars, Billups, AND Bing could and did all switch from scoring to facilitating at a moment's notice as it was needed, and they're quite rugged defenders as well. Rip's the only one who didn't absolutely excel as a passer, but I guess you don't need FIVE guards for that purpose. -Also, I think it's worth noting that, while Dumars didn't do much from 3 in the '80s, which kinda skewed his career stats, he adapted in the back half of his career and it became a much bigger part of his game. He even held the record of most made 3s in a game for some time. Obviously not at the level of modern shooting, or even his contemporaries like Bird or Miller, but I think it makes this team's worst weakness a bit less glaring. -You've pointed out the damage Detroit's bigs can do, including some lesser-known facts like Laimbeer's outside shooting presence (could he be one of this team's biggest long-range scoring threats?). Something else that I think is worth pointing out is that, while Laimbeer is most known for dishing out fouls, he was also very deliberate and tactical about pissing opponents off and drawing and selling contact, which paired really well with free throw shooting that was over 84% as a Piston. -I don't know if it helps, but Rodman spent most of his time in Detroit as SF rather than PF. I guess it could help mix rotations a bit. Also, you didn't flash the stats, so I feel like people who are mostly familiar with him as a Bull should know he passed 18 rpg twice as a Piston (and while his scoring was still nothing impressive, it was a bit more frequent than as a Bull, scoring almost 10ppg in his best rebounding season. Enough to make him not a total liability). I'm biased, but I think this team would be an EXTREMELY tough out. I've said elsewhere that I think they'd be in the mix for third-best record in the East, but they could definitely give the Celtics and 76ers some very big headaches. After all, most of these guys are used to upsetting some of the sport's GOATs.
Ok, disappointingly late reply on my part, as this is THE team I've been looking forward to most. Very good overall, and, yeah: DE-FENSE! Thanks for the correction about Sheed. My typical all-time roster taps in into the chemistry of the championship teams (with the exception of Hill): 1st unit: Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, Hill, Laimbeer 2nd unit: Billups, Hamilton, Rasheed, Prince, Ben Rotation: Bing, Aguirre, Lanier (but you're right: Lanier should be starting) Keep in mind that Rodman started out as a SF. Can you imagine a frontcourt of Rodman, Laimbeer, and Big Ben? Sick. Lastly: Bring on the sub-80 point final scores! DE-TROIT BASKETBAAALL!
I believe great midrange shooters from the 80s will be great 3pt shooters in today's game. It just wasn't something they did back then so it's really impossible to relate the % then to now, since they placed little value on it back then.
I only forgot to put him on the honorables. I considered him for the roster, but just decided against it, because behind solid bigs like Wallace, Lanier, Rodman and Laimbeer, there just won't be many minutes. I can promise you he'll be on the Portland team though, thats for sure
@@jonnyarnett here's my team: Starters: Zeke, Joe D, Grant Hill, Sheed, Lanier. Bench: Chauncey, Rip, Worm, Lambeer, Ben Wallace. Rotation: Stack, Dave Bing, Bob McAdoo This solves your scoring problem
I posted a correction in the pinned comment. He was supposed to be in there, but just forgot to him on the honorables after I decided to narrowly leave him off the team
I had the same blend of 1988-1990 & 2004 Pistons with a sprinkle of Hill, Stackhouse and Lanier. Just didn't think about Debusschere and Faust! I didn't even know the latter. Dave Bing was also in my mind, I think I would have taken him, big name from another era. Anyway, ten out of twelve names are almost unarguable. You could change Prince with Blake Griffin if you go with peaks and not how much they mattered to the franchise. Griffin was great when he was in Detroit, and could provide offense to a team that lacks some of it. Overall this is a great all-time team with only one player who is top 50 all-time, with a great emphasis on defense and team basketball, and no player from the last 15 years... It's very emblematic of the Pistons!
It's definitely a tough call. Billups did have a string of 7 straight conference finals appearances which is extremely rare and was always one of the leaders of the team. Joe Dumars is kind of on the lowest tier of hall of fame guards and if you just did a straight up resume comparison, Joe had the better career than Billups. I'd probably leave him out just because I like the Hall being reserved for the very best and not include those who were just really good.
Ben Wallace was my first ever fav player when I started watching NBA in 2003. But Jonny you can't play him anywhere else than right below the rim at center.
This team is better I expected but still only a play in tournament team in the east as the Celtics, Bulls, Bucks, 76ers, Heat, and Magic are better. This team would be in the play in tournament with the Knicks, Nets, Cavs. With guys like Wallace, Dumars, Rodman, and Laimbeer, their defense is their calling card. Isiah and Mr. Big Shot give excellent ball handling, passing, and clutch shooting. Hill is dynamic if healthy but that is a big if. I am agree with the starting lineup and second unit. For more shooting I'd replace Prince with the microwave in the end of the bench guys. Defense leads to competitiveness but not enough shooting to be a contender.
Think I'd have thrown in 2018 Blake over Tayshaun just for a bit more offense but this really is a suffocating defense to go against, not a top tier all time team but a pain in the ass one for sure
Coming back to this after the Blazers Ultimate Team upload, where Sheed made the team and was specifically praised for his skills as a stretch 4, and for being an outside threat. Given how much this video emphasizes 3-point shooting as this team's weakness (exaggerating it a bit, in my opinion, and ignoring Dumars' greater emphasis and efficiency with 3s in the mid-90s), Sheed's omission looks all the more glaring with time. I'd swap him for Foust pretty easily. I don't want to instantly dismiss Foust, but from what I've read of his achievements and stats, I'm not convinced he brings something to the table that isn't thoroughly covered by Lanier AND Laimbeer (and the Pistons have yet ANOTHER center with Big Ben, even if he doesn't provide the size or offense of the others). Sheed on the other hand, fills a need that this very video identified as the team's most glaring (and he actually shot more 3s as a Piston at the same efficiency as his Blazer days). And he meets that need while also perfectly complementing this team's strengths (defense, fundamentals, team-oriented play and chemistry).
Mostly on the money, but no Dave Bing is the wildest of takes! I love Tayshaun and Stack, but no way on earth are they worthy of a place over a seven-time All Star and Hall of Famer. Same can be said for George Yardley really.... does smack of recency bias.
Isiah Thomas Chauncey Billups George Yardley Ben Wallace Bob Lanier Dave Bing Grant Hill Dennis Rodman Bailey Howell Larry Foust Joe Dumars Dave DeBusschere Bill Laimbeer
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The league could have used a couple of these great defenders in last night's All-Star game, huh? lol. How many teams are better than the Ultimate Pistons in the East??
CORRECTION: People are freaking out about no Rasheed Wallace, and that's valid. I only forgot to put him on the honorables. I considered him for the roster, but just decided against it, because behind solid bigs like Wallace, Lanier, Rodman and Laimbeer, there just won't be many minutes. I can promise you he'll be on the Portland team though, thats for sure
Not many, I’d say the Lakers, Celtics Warriors & maybe maybe the Spurs are more all-around talented.. in this system
In the East? Celtics, Bucks, 76ers and maybe the Bulls… but that’s a maybe
Asuar Thompson Gonna be on this team in his prime
Maybe? How is it a maybe?
@@celtics17banners84
@@T.H.E.O.R.Y.Pistons owned the Bulls back then because of their defense. You think this version of the pistons can’t do the same??
Jonny watched the All-Star game last night and said "Here's all the defense in the world."
Adam Silver wanted this 🤷
LMAO
That all star game was a disgrace. Worst I've seen in 30 years.
@@MGroot-ou7de Wait until next year. It will be worse
Having Pistons season tickets since '88, I'd make 3 changes:
-Tayshaun 2nd SF, DeBusshere 13th man
-Sheed 11th man, Faust out
-Dave Bing 12th man, Stackhouse out
The other 10 picks are PERFECT! 👍
Right there with you.
Nailed.. I can't see leaving Sheed off..
Did you forget about Wallce? I predicted he would start at PF, yet he isn't even an honorable mention!?
@@Italiancwb125 Sheed = Rasheed Wallace 🤦
@@nathanlawson313 I'm aware. Sorry, I was referring to Jonny's video. To not even have him honorable mention is insane!
Rasheed Wallace man. Not even a mention? Dang
For real Rasheed Wallace should be starting with Big Ben
He had to have forgotten about him...there's no way
Rasheed Wallace
It might be because he wasn't in his prime when the pistons got him
@@ahkeem0 I agree his best years were in Portland, but he was still an all star in 2006 and 2008 (and even top 15 in mvp voting in '08). Plus he's a big that would add spacing, something this team desperately needs
I'd trade Foust and gimme "Tbe Microwave" Vinnie Johnson. He was an instant bucket off the bench and as you said they'd have trouble spacing the floor. With Vinnie, he'd help to plug that gap immensely 🔥🔥🔥
I got his autograph!
Tough list to crack, but I also expected the Microwave on this list
Love seeing Bob Lanier get some love. One of the most underrated legends of the game.
As a Detroiter, I've been looking forward to this
Still waiting for my warriors 😊
Solid squad. Can’t leave off a top 75 player in Bing
Dave Bing was a playmaker who excelled at driving the ball to the hoop and either scoring or dishing off to a teammate.
He was a top scorer in the NBA during his career, averaging over 20 points per game.
Bing was the only omission that bothered me on this one. He was much more impactful historically than either Hamilton or Stackhouse.
I’d take Bing over Stackhouse personally.
@@sirbradfordofhousejonesI couldn’t agree with you more. Stackhouse over Bing was a real head scratcher. I usually agree with whatever Johny has to say but some of his picks for these all time teams confuse me.
@@henrypope4225This is Jonny from my other account, but I’ll explain my logic. Usually when it comes to spots 12 and 13, I try to fill out the roster with things the teams are lacking. A prime Stackhouse could provide scoring and some floor spacing, which this team desperately needed. As great as Bing was, we don’t know how he could do as a 3 point shooter. Some people will suggest Rasheed Wallace, and yes, that would address some shooting, but I also don’t see him getting many important minutes behind Wallace, Lanier, Rodman and Laimbeer. I’m open to other suggestions, but for me, the 12th and 13th spot is where you fill in the glaring gaps for your team, so I won’t always pick simply the most talented or proven player left on the board
Hey man no need to explain your personal SUBJECTIVE choice for an all time team. Appreciate the logical analysis. As per usual.
As crazy as it seems to say, Chauncey is my all-time fav PG. Not the BEST, just my favorite, much like that 04 Pistons team is my 2nd favorite team behind my championship Nuggets, of course. I’m so happy to finally see him as a HOF finalist. He was the perfect leader for the greatest underdog team ever, and let’s not forget that he took Melo and my Nuggets to the WCF.
Great video as always, Jonny ❤
I've been waiting for this one! Good to relive the glory days to distract from the current team. Also no Rasheed?
Initially had him on the roster, but then decided to take him off because of all the great bigs, and then just forgot to write him down on the honorables afterwards. My bad. He SHOULD be on the honorables. He's definitely gonna be on the Blazers though, because peak Wallace was special.
Really makes me think how drafting Melo in the 03 draft could’ve changed our history
It’s so sad that the history of the Pistons is forgotten because of how bad we are right now. People are starting to think Detroit is a poverty franchise. It is heartbreaking
It depends how old you are 😆😅😂
it is impossible to be a successful franchise when you have a bad owner... doesnt matter the sport .... if your CEO is bad then your team will be bad
@@hookseybaby I’m not talking about now. Our franchise is horrible right now. I’m talking about historically. The pistons are so bad right now that people are forgetting how good we were in the past
At least that got e rings its many franchises with zero championships
I'll never forget the Pistons. The 2004 Finals triumph was the biggest Finals upset I have ever seen.
In my "unbiased" opinion, this is the BEST ultimate team. Don't question unbiased being in quotes. Don't think about it 😎
I wanted to see a 4-5 punch of Rodman - Wallace, just to have 6 DPoYs killing everything the opposition tries.
It’d be fun; but it’s not a great idea to have two offensive holes on at the same time. Lanier was a pretty tough SOB himself anyway.
As a Detroiter I say, Dave Bing should have definitely made the list
Can’t argue with that. Only Piston to ever win the scoring title.
I'm glad you started Lanier over Laimbeer. Lanier is one of the most underrated players in NBA history. However, I'm one of the many who believes Dave Bing needs to be in the top 13. I understand the reasoning you stated later in the thread, but the man was named to the NBA top 50 and top 75 lists.
Hard to think of rotation players and not consider Vinnie Johnson, he had so many great moments for Detroit. Lindsey Hunter also came to mind, fantastic on-ball defender who could cover bigger guys. Rasheed and Mahorn were also beasts, both underrated defenders. Clifford Robinson, Antonio Mcdyess and John Salley also, but a tier below.
Thank you Jonny for this video! 😊
Bob Lanier on this, most people born in the 2000s have no idea who he is so they better be watching this!
this video made me realize a Scottie Pippen, Kobe, MJ, Rodman and Ben Wallace modern day small ball (but not too small 6'6-6'10) lineup would a nightmare and probably the best wing/atheltic/skillfull and defensive dominating team ever due to sheet wills and competitiveness
This team now would be very good in the 80's it would have been so tough, physically and mentally that beating the would have been almost impossible even for the greatest from this series
Glad you got at least one Fort Wayne Piston on the list! 👍
Can't argue with you at all. I'd love to see that team play.
I felt like the Pistons are a true sleeper team that could cause upsets. After watching the video I still feel that way! Great video.
Thanks again Jonny
Been WAITING on this one!!
Going into this I am expecting all of the defense.
Edit: Yep, lots of defense. I still love the series
There has never been a better wrench in the machine as Lindsey Hunter. Whenever the opposing offence got on a roll, Hunter would come in with fresh legs and harass the PG until they were out of rhythm. That one quality alone was so valuable and reliable it tempts me to put him on my Ultimate Pistons Team.
You mentioned the lack of 3 point shooting at the end. Its very true but Joe Dumars was also a great shooter like billups
I think people forget that Bill Laimbeer could shoot threes. He just didn't often because no one thought a 7 footer should be behind the arc in those days.
Rasheed not even getting a mention is wild Jonny
The correction is in the pinned comment. Narrowly missed the roster due to the great bigs hogging all the minutes, but he SHOULD have been on the HM list
@@jonnyarnett it happens plus it's YOUR list. I'm biased because that's my second favourite player but if I could put a bid on a "How good was Rasheed Wallace" video now, let me do that 😂 I've been a fan for years now and your takes are typically in alignment with mine so continue this series as well as everything else that you do. It is appreciated.
I was wondering when you'd return to this.
I would say Rasheed Wallace, Andre Drummond, or Rick Mahorn for extra big slot in the rotation. Dave Bing or Vinnie Johnson over Stackhouse
Who would you take out for one of those 3 bigs though? Suggesting names is easy, but taking guys out is the hard part.
@@jonnyarnett true. I don’t know much on Larry Foust other than he played for the Fort Wayne Pistons.
@@jonnyarnettHow about Dave Bing over empty stats Jerry Stackhouse? George Yardley over Larry Foust?
Hello no on Andre or Rick. Neither is them would fit in todays again
@@iMixMaSteR1 just for rebounds and bullying players around
I thought for sure Bing would make it
I hate the Pistons, but I didn't realize how many of these players that I loved to watch. Lanier, Laimbeer, Thomas, Joe D, Hill, Mr. Big Shot (the King of College Hill), Dantley, and the Worm. I did not expect this team to be this good nor to have such a difficult time making the last three players... Dave Bing's gotta be there, Dantley, Rasheed (whom I personally detest, but he was a monster), Mahorn, Long, Tripucka, and even Mark Aguirre (who's best days were behind him before landing in Detroit). Also, Rodman did not play much PF in Detroit (according to my memory).
I do remember in the 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys that one of them said, "Every night there was going to be a game and a fight. And we were going to win at least one of them." This is a nasty team.
I've debated whether or not Dantley should be on the team. He brings an offensive boost that certainly couldn't hurt. But he had very well-known chemistry issues with Isiah. How much of that was his fault is unclear, but it's no secret that he wanted to be "the guy" on the team, and he'd have even more competition for that role on this Ultimate squad.
On the other hand, they did go down to the wire with prime Showtime in '88, and down to the wire with prime Bird-McHale-Parish Celtics in the ECF in '87. Winning cures a lot of team issues, and maybe things would have smoothed out if two or three possessions in those series go differently.
Still, looking at the overall makeup of this team, if I want scoring threats, Bing, Hill, and Lanier give me that, and all of them show a willingness to put the team first (again, not saying Isiah didn't play a part in the rift with Dantley. But you simply can't make an Ultimate Pistons team without Isiah).
You're right that Rodman didn't play much PF in Detroit. When he entered the starting lineup he took Aguirre's spot.
My best all time Pistons starting line-up:
PG: Isiah Thomas
SG: Joe Dumars
SF: Grant Hill
PF: Dennis Rodman
C: Ben Wallace
Lambier in rodman spot cause he can shoot and spread the floor
@countryrah True but I want more flexibility on defence
been waiting for this one
I think this is an interesting question of that style of basketball are they playing?
This Pistons team would be pretty underrated in terms of 3 point shooting (Dumars is a career 38.6%, Rip had two seasons where he was over 44% from 3, if Rasheed was there he was a master of the trick shot, you can see Zeke and Laimbeer developing one), just they all played in eras where no one ever took them or the league was just starting to figure out you can build a sustainable offence around it.
If they played today, you could see them along with Billups each shooting 6 threes a game.
Laimbeer had a 3 point shot, especially for his time. He shot 35 then 36 percent in their championship seasons
@@BiggieTrismegistus For his time sure, but it's still technically about average at best by today's standards.
Dumars is the most underrated shooting guard in nba history. Not exactly sure where I would rank him but he was awesome.
This is coming from a die hard bulls fan who hated the entire city of detriot during the 80s
I have to go with Vinnie Johnson over Jerry Stackhouse. Vinnie Johnson could score while still allowing for ball movement.
Excellent point. Stackhouse was a leading scorer type guy, but could be a bit of a black hole at times with the basketball
@@jonnyarnett Only 40 percent!
A team where you can sub out Ben Wallace for Dennis Rodman is insane
Swap Bing and Sheed for Faust and Stackhouse, everything else is perfect.
I know I say this pretty much every time in this series but... You know your team is deep when Bob McAdoo doesn't make the cut lol
Hi! i wanted to request a video on your take on the most ENTERTAINING teams of all time (7sol suns, lob city, showtime, or even teams who played beautiful bball like the 2014 spurs) i had seen NOBODY do a video like this
One of my favorite teams personally is the 97 Rockets with Hakeem, Drexler and Barkley.
Also, I’m biased as they come, but the 05 Sonics and 90’s Sonic teams are cool.
No joke, I literally had that already written down as a video idea. Thats gonna happen at some point. Should be a fun comments section on that one, because its all about personal preference.
I don't think anyone can beat Showtime on that. lol
Zeke and Joe D were more than sufficient from beyond the arc. Recency bias may have me putting Sheed over Foust, but other than that, can’t really argue with you on any selection or placement.
Detroit Basketball!! Pistons team I scary physically grid teams down with their suffocating defense and rebounding. Zeke, Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, Bob Leiner, RIP, Prince, Mr. Big Shot.
RASHEED WALLACE NOT EVEN MAKING THE HONORABLE MENTIONS IS CRAZY JONNY
I think that blake is getting slept on, and I believe that he would be a better fit to this team than Foust. He could help a bit with his 3pt shooting and overall scoring, because Wallace and Rodman ain't got a whole lot of it.
Yeah, Blake actually has a really good case for this team. Since Jonny's rules let you pick a single-season version of a player, 2019 Blake was quite formidable, and may be just what they need. PF may historically be Detroit's weakest position (unless you cheat and slide Rodman or Ben into that spot), and he fills that, gives over two dozen ppg on over 46% shooting, and over 36% from 3. Solid rebounding, too.
That bucket from Aguirre there at 2:10 was pretty sick lol
This was an interesting team. The seven players from the two championship squads were easy selections, and Bob Lanier and Grant Hill are the best Pistons to never win. I enjoyed learning about the other six players.
Dave Bing was the most egregious omission in this series so far
Wow. I’m surprised you didn’t have Dave Bing as a rotational player. Wow.
Killian Hayes is carrying this team to the promised land 🙏
Cade will replace someone in 10 years
Blake snub is crazy
It’s about damn time
So you build a defensive brick wall so massive, a couple bricks will fly at the rim, but maybe hit an opposing player?
Dumars was also an elite 3points shooter. ANd I believ you have forgotten Rasheed wallace.
Hi Jonny Arnett, please make a video on real slam dunk champions through the years. Thanks🙏🙏🙏🙏
What a GREAT IDEA. Lots of changes in that potential series. Writing it down now...
We all know who #1 is and it’s not close
@@politicalatheist5861I don’t think it is that simple. Could go with Kemp, Jordan, Carter, Griffin, or maybe someone else in forgetting.
Definitely a great idea I believe Serge Ibaka was robbed in 2011
No respect for Dave Bing. I love Dumars, Billups, & Hamilton, but Dave Bing should've been either on the 2nd unit or possibly a starter alongside Isiah. I'm shocked you left him off.
Bill Lambeer SHOULD BE in the starting line with Isiah.Isiah and him had perfect chemistry.
Agreed. Lanier's probably the better overall player, but Laimbeer has the chemistry, that "proto-stretch 5" status, and could get in opponents' heads and get to the line (where he shot very well). He could play aggressive and if he happens to get into foul trouble, then opponents get to look forward to dragging a fresh Lanier up and down the court.
I would definitely have Dave bing somewhere on the roster. I think since there are already two point guards who are great facilitators, there is no need for Bing to faciliatate. But I would have him either be a backup shooting guard over Rip Hamilton or coming from the bench over Stackhouse or Prince.
Dave Bing has to be on this list, replace Jerry stackhouse with David bing.
I honestly feel that this is an ultimate team that might go farther in the ultimate playoffs than people might expect. There's just SO much defense it's hard to imagine them having a bad night.
RAPTORS ULTIMATE VIDEO PLEASE JONNNY
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I'm actually going in alphabetical order of the teams names, which means the Raptors are next. I've already finished the script, and my editor should be working on it soon.
The schedule is....
Raptors
Rockets
Spurs
Suns
Thunder
Timberwolves
Trail Blazers
____
COMPILATION, which includes...
Warriors
Wizards
@@jonnyarnett
I know it’s asking for a lot, but a defunct franchises ultimate team could be cool. Highlight guys from places like the Bullets, Redskins, or Olympians. Though I fully understand why it might not make sense to do so.
Loving the series and look forward to the rest.
Bob Lanier is the most underrated player ever….
My team !!!!! Can’t wait before I watch I’ll guess
04 pistons starting line up (5)
Zeke
Joe
Hill
Bill
Rodman
Vinny (and/or Cade 😁)
Rick or Drummond for size
-Yes, the one I've been waiting for! Some very interesting pulls here (I was expecting DeBusschere, but Foust was a surprise). I like the mindset of mostly sticking with Bad Boys and Going to Work squads, then plugging in a few offensive sparks like Hill and Lanier.
-I've seen debate about Stackhouse, and my instinct is to go with Bing. It's tricky, because Stack's 3-point shooting is a known quantity, while Bing played before the 3-point line. But even without it, he cleared 27ppg twice as a Piston, and even though he tended to be a shoot-first PG, was still a better facilitator than Stack, and also a better rebounder. I feel like a version of him playing with a 3-point line would be the bigger scoring and spacing threat, while also offering more in other phases of the game. Also, and this is really subjective, but everything about him in his playing days and afterward indicates the same "team-first" and "focused on fundamentals" attitude that was essential to both of Detroit's championship eras (for similar reasons, Hill should mesh with this roster really well, even if he never got the chance in reality).
-Indeed, Detroit's guard play would be terrifying. Isiah, Dumars, Billups, AND Bing could and did all switch from scoring to facilitating at a moment's notice as it was needed, and they're quite rugged defenders as well. Rip's the only one who didn't absolutely excel as a passer, but I guess you don't need FIVE guards for that purpose.
-Also, I think it's worth noting that, while Dumars didn't do much from 3 in the '80s, which kinda skewed his career stats, he adapted in the back half of his career and it became a much bigger part of his game. He even held the record of most made 3s in a game for some time. Obviously not at the level of modern shooting, or even his contemporaries like Bird or Miller, but I think it makes this team's worst weakness a bit less glaring.
-You've pointed out the damage Detroit's bigs can do, including some lesser-known facts like Laimbeer's outside shooting presence (could he be one of this team's biggest long-range scoring threats?). Something else that I think is worth pointing out is that, while Laimbeer is most known for dishing out fouls, he was also very deliberate and tactical about pissing opponents off and drawing and selling contact, which paired really well with free throw shooting that was over 84% as a Piston.
-I don't know if it helps, but Rodman spent most of his time in Detroit as SF rather than PF. I guess it could help mix rotations a bit. Also, you didn't flash the stats, so I feel like people who are mostly familiar with him as a Bull should know he passed 18 rpg twice as a Piston (and while his scoring was still nothing impressive, it was a bit more frequent than as a Bull, scoring almost 10ppg in his best rebounding season. Enough to make him not a total liability).
I'm biased, but I think this team would be an EXTREMELY tough out. I've said elsewhere that I think they'd be in the mix for third-best record in the East, but they could definitely give the Celtics and 76ers some very big headaches. After all, most of these guys are used to upsetting some of the sport's GOATs.
Bill Laimbeer is always underrated.
I’m a Celtics fan and I hate the pistons but loved watching Rasheed Wallace play and think it’s absolutely criminal that he didn’t even get mentioned!
"Detroit Defenders" may have been the better name for this franchise 😄
Take it a step further with that suffocating defense: Detroit Stranglers
Coming here from a first take debate about the pistons championship teams😂😂😂
It's going to be amazing when u run these teams thru 2k 💪 Great series!!
Ok, disappointingly late reply on my part, as this is THE team I've been looking forward to most.
Very good overall, and, yeah: DE-FENSE!
Thanks for the correction about Sheed.
My typical all-time roster taps in into the chemistry of the championship teams (with the exception of Hill):
1st unit: Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, Hill, Laimbeer
2nd unit: Billups, Hamilton, Rasheed, Prince, Ben
Rotation: Bing, Aguirre, Lanier (but you're right: Lanier should be starting)
Keep in mind that Rodman started out as a SF. Can you imagine a frontcourt of Rodman, Laimbeer, and Big Ben? Sick.
Lastly:
Bring on the sub-80 point final scores! DE-TROIT BASKETBAAALL!
I believe great midrange shooters from the 80s will be great 3pt shooters in today's game. It just wasn't something they did back then so it's really impossible to relate the % then to now, since they placed little value on it back then.
Even the greatest Celtics and Lakers all time team will having a hard time beating this Pistons team.
Thought Sheed and Adrian Dantley would make it. Also, George Yardley was a beast! His averages are just insane
How do you not have Rasheed Wallace on this team?? He didn't even make honorable mention that's crazy!!
We needed that defense after the all star game
Happy Monday 😊😊
Did you forget that Rasheed Wallace exists?
I only forgot to put him on the honorables. I considered him for the roster, but just decided against it, because behind solid bigs like Wallace, Lanier, Rodman and Laimbeer, there just won't be many minutes. I can promise you he'll be on the Portland team though, thats for sure
@@jonnyarnett here's my team:
Starters: Zeke, Joe D, Grant Hill, Sheed, Lanier.
Bench: Chauncey, Rip, Worm, Lambeer, Ben Wallace.
Rotation: Stack, Dave Bing, Bob McAdoo
This solves your scoring problem
Dare is say the Microwave was more efficient at the roll Stack will be asked to play.
Good video. Good invluding some of the old school players. However, I thought Rasheed would at least make the honorable mention list. 😊
I posted a correction in the pinned comment. He was supposed to be in there, but just forgot to him on the honorables after I decided to narrowly leave him off the team
I had the same blend of 1988-1990 & 2004 Pistons with a sprinkle of Hill, Stackhouse and Lanier. Just didn't think about Debusschere and Faust! I didn't even know the latter. Dave Bing was also in my mind, I think I would have taken him, big name from another era. Anyway, ten out of twelve names are almost unarguable.
You could change Prince with Blake Griffin if you go with peaks and not how much they mattered to the franchise. Griffin was great when he was in Detroit, and could provide offense to a team that lacks some of it.
Overall this is a great all-time team with only one player who is top 50 all-time, with a great emphasis on defense and team basketball, and no player from the last 15 years... It's very emblematic of the Pistons!
Me and a friend keep debating whether or not Billups is a HOFer. In my opinion I don't believe he is. What do you guys think?
It's definitely a tough call. Billups did have a string of 7 straight conference finals appearances which is extremely rare and was always one of the leaders of the team. Joe Dumars is kind of on the lowest tier of hall of fame guards and if you just did a straight up resume comparison, Joe had the better career than Billups. I'd probably leave him out just because I like the Hall being reserved for the very best and not include those who were just really good.
He is a borderline hall of famer. He wouldn’t be one of the best in the hall of fame. But he still has a finals mvp. I think he should make it.
Ben Wallace was my first ever fav player when I started watching NBA in 2003. But Jonny you can't play him anywhere else than right below the rim at center.
I love you Jonny.
This team is better I expected but still only a play in tournament team in the east as the Celtics, Bulls, Bucks, 76ers, Heat, and Magic are better. This team would be in the play in tournament with the Knicks, Nets, Cavs. With guys like Wallace, Dumars, Rodman, and Laimbeer, their defense is their calling card. Isiah and Mr. Big Shot give excellent ball handling, passing, and clutch shooting. Hill is dynamic if healthy but that is a big if. I am agree with the starting lineup and second unit. For more shooting I'd replace Prince with the microwave in the end of the bench guys. Defense leads to competitiveness but not enough shooting to be a contender.
Man the ultimate pistons are stacked. I would have found some place for Rasheed Walkace
Think I'd have thrown in 2018 Blake over Tayshaun just for a bit more offense but this really is a suffocating defense to go against, not a top tier all time team but a pain in the ass one for sure
I really like your intro
nuggets vs pistons is unstoppable force meets immovable object
Just two more teams until you get to the Spurs💪
Oh yes. 🤝
Ultimate Warriors Team next 🫡
Coming back to this after the Blazers Ultimate Team upload, where Sheed made the team and was specifically praised for his skills as a stretch 4, and for being an outside threat. Given how much this video emphasizes 3-point shooting as this team's weakness (exaggerating it a bit, in my opinion, and ignoring Dumars' greater emphasis and efficiency with 3s in the mid-90s), Sheed's omission looks all the more glaring with time.
I'd swap him for Foust pretty easily. I don't want to instantly dismiss Foust, but from what I've read of his achievements and stats, I'm not convinced he brings something to the table that isn't thoroughly covered by Lanier AND Laimbeer (and the Pistons have yet ANOTHER center with Big Ben, even if he doesn't provide the size or offense of the others). Sheed on the other hand, fills a need that this very video identified as the team's most glaring (and he actually shot more 3s as a Piston at the same efficiency as his Blazer days). And he meets that need while also perfectly complementing this team's strengths (defense, fundamentals, team-oriented play and chemistry).
Blake Griffin Pistons should be in this team
Dang kinda sad that the Pistons haven’t had that much great success since 2000s
Mostly on the money, but no Dave Bing is the wildest of takes! I love Tayshaun and Stack, but no way on earth are they worthy of a place over a seven-time All Star and Hall of Famer. Same can be said for George Yardley really.... does smack of recency bias.
You killed me. Why did You forget killian Hayes
Had to come back to the video cause I was pretty sure I missed the moment where Jonny mentioned Sheed... :(
Isiah Thomas
Chauncey Billups
George Yardley
Ben Wallace
Bob Lanier
Dave Bing
Grant Hill
Dennis Rodman
Bailey Howell
Larry Foust
Joe Dumars
Dave DeBusschere
Bill Laimbeer