BIBLOS | Part I - Is Speaking In Tongues In The Old Testament?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
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I love this podcast. Being able to listen to Godly talk while at work is the best thing ever. Thank you Jesus for the infilling Holy Ghost, and all that it has brought into my life.
Please be Praying for Roxanne Thompkins She had Chemo Yesterday and she has been so sick on her Stomach and Diarrhea. Roxanne needs to be Baptized In Jesus Name Please And She Needs The Holy Ghost.
I had chemo 20 yrs ago. Have her drink Ginger tea. Keep her sipping it all day into the night
And the Lord will make a way
What Im saying about ginger tea is I always kept the tea w me around the clock. Keep it in your system.I never needed the nausea pills for the 8 rounds of chemo.
@@MaryButeau-cq8cb I will tell my Sister In Law. Do You add Honey to it?
@@lindahood9854 no
I Love Biblos Network And First Pentecostal Church In Durham NC
Me too!
Thank you Sis. Linda. We will be praying for Roxanne.
Love the revamp of intro, themes, and studio!
Thank you. Joseph headed up the reboot. He does a great job with Biblos.
Listening later. Thank you Brother Urshan for this great ministry.
I love that thought on how the Holy Ghost is already there but the speaking of tongues is showing the evidence that it’s there. Thankful for the omniprescence of the Holy Ghost!
Such a great lesson indeed. Calgary Alberta Canada😊
I love the new look. Miss the old music 😭❤️
Thank you Bro.Urshan for everything that you do!
Praise God!!!
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Welcome To The Biblos Network
00:01:46 - The Great Born Of The Water Born Of The Spirit Message
00:03:38 - Speaking With Other Tongues
00:05:30 - Speaking In Tongues And The Holy Ghost
00:07:11 - Speaking In Tongues
00:09:07 - Receiving The Holy Ghost
00:10:49 - The New Testament Administration Of The Holy Ghost
00:12:37 - The New Testament Infilling Of The Holy Ghost
00:14:16 - Laughter And The Supernatural Birthing
00:16:17 - The Mockery Of The Supernatural
00:17:53 - Supernatural Births And The Mockery Of The Impossible
00:19:41 - The Supernatural Outpouring Of God's Spirit
00:21:17 - The Minority And The Majority
00:22:59 - God's Destruction And Judgment
00:24:43 - The Failure Of The Majority
00:26:37 - Hearing But Not Listening
00:28:10 - Gathering The Nations And Calling Upon The Name Of The Lord
00:29:58 - The Remnant Of Israel
00:31:40 - The Division Of Tongues At Babylon
00:33:26 - The Giving Of The Torah
00:35:16 - The Voices On Mount Sinai And The Day Of Pentecost
00:36:58 - The New Testament Covenant Of Life
00:38:45 - Speaking In Tongues
Bible in Acts 2:38 commands how we must be saved. When it says ye Shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues does not say you must be saved with one of the fruits of the Spirit. Its the initial sign that Goda spirit is in you. The tongues of Angels may be a different tongue. But it doesn't matter what language it is. When someone receives the Holy Ghost they sometimes speak and earthly language that they never learned or heard of. Only God knows and is in control
Hey Steve! I understand tongues is A evidence as Jesus said it’s one of the songs that will follow those who believe and we see it on display at Pentecost but for one acts 2:38 does not say “with the evidence of the Holy Ghost” in that verse. The main evidence that someone has been saved is their confession of the gospel and their love. Like Jesus said “by this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:35. And also by their fruit you will know them. Moreover, many will say to the Lord didn’t we do all these wonders but he will say depart I never knew you you who practice lawlessness. Remember Balaam. The evidence is the Spirit which we receive when we believe as Ephesians gets at. People can fake tongues but Christ like love cannot be replicated. I say all this as someone who does speak in tongues by the way and I love the gift. I just think we put this gift on such a high pedestal and can do wrong in judging somebody that hasn’t received the gift when we know in the scripture that not all will unless the Holy Spirit enables. Blessings to you
@nigelreid186 Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Utterance means to speak in an unknown language...
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
@@stevequinonez8212 I’m not denying that tongues is unknown language so I’m not sure what your point was in the saying that. Maybe you could clarify? And I believe there is a difference between having the Holy Spirit versus being filled with the Holy Spirit (whereby tongues is also a evidence). Acts 2:4 happened to the apostles who already believed (and sealed by the Holy Spirit) and were breathed on by Jesus given the Holy Spirit but acts 2:38 is to people who just heard the message and hadn’t even repented and it says that they’d receive the gift of the Holy Spirit not the filling (not saying that to say that the promise of being filled wasn’t also for them). It then isn’t recorded that they spoke in tongues. Paul reminds us to be filled with the Holy Spirit which implies that there can be times where as believers we are not. Moreover not every time someone was filled with the Spirit the scripture records that they spoke in tongues, for example when Elizabeth was filled, zacharias just prophesied, Peter in acts 4 only preached, Peter and John in acts 4 only preached, paul in acts 9 only preached , Paul in acts 13 just prophesied, and the disciples in acts 13:52 etc.
Love the new look! Bro.Urshan, it looks like the naysayers are treating you well. 😂😂😂
🙂 I am very thankful for their support. Their zeal helps to expand our reach though I doubt it is in the way they intended.
You can't have the gifts of the spirit until you have the spirit first, to have the gifts of the spirit means you have the spirit from which these gifts come from
Awesome word Pastor
Broad is the road that leads to distruction. Narrow is the road that leads to life.
It's very true.
Isaiah 28 not only states that we would speak with other tongues, but that "they would not hear". He literally prophesies their unbelief in advance. It is such a powerful portion of scripture.
@@pastorurshan Amen!!
I was scared when I found out I had to recieve the Holy ghost, I'm mean think of it, a tangible move of God is going to happen and as our mi is work, yea I was a little scared, but I also know that God isn't going to do anything to hurt me and of course after I got it, my mind made it more then that gentle move of God. So when I got it I remember looking down toward my mouth wondering how long it was going to last, and you'll fight with your mind the rest of your life, because the carnal mind is not subject to the laws of God and neither indeed can be, because that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is Spirit, it's to separate worlds, that of the flesh and that of the spirit, the flesh being the wicked and the spirit being willing and always reaching for the righteousness of God, even sitting bull said a man has 2 dogs fighting in them and a man asked which one wins and he said the one you feed the most, and its the same in the spirit, walk in the spirit that you fullfill not the lust of the flesh, God bless all that will hear in Jesus name
Thank You
Huh, 70 voices makes me think of the 70 disciples Jesus sent out, and also, i wonder about the 120. Is it possible there were 120 languages in existence on the Day of Pentecost.
God's administration of his plan with all the types and shadows and fulfillment of them just shows he is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent deserving of sll the glory, honor, worship, adoration, reverence, and love. And all thst still doesn't fo jim justice. I'm just in awe of him.
People refuse to follow the Bible, but they will cling and believe what other men will say about Biblical matters without doing a thorough research of what they are taking as truth, which is not truth. They are doing away with the Holy Ghost.
Thank you Bro !!
27:51 amen
37:48 HALLELUIAH!!!
Bro. Urshan at the end mixes the Tongues mentioned in 1 Cor.14 and the Tongues in Acts as if there the same because there is no knowledge of interpretation. Paul in chapter 14 is basically saying in a nutshell, if there is a Tongue or Tongues in the Assembly it should only be by 2 or at the most 3 and there better be an interpretation or itt is of no benefit. It is confusion to those visiting. Please take note of Paul's stern requirements
Please take note that you have to read in context. Context is king when interpretation of scripture is happening. The whole issue is about the order of a Church service. Paul did not say one better interpret the tongues spoken. This again is talking about while the pastor is giving a sermon. Worship is the difference, it is supposed to be you and God, why would I try to tell someone they don’t have the right to speak to God through His Holy Ghost? You add words to scripture, that is worse. You read scripture to fit your understanding, not God speaking His understanding. I have been in Pentecostal Church services and have witnessed them honor what Paul taught. I have seen the Pastor stop the person when out of order. I have witnessed one that Spoke in tongues before the actual start of a sermon, and an interpretation was given, and the presence of God was thick. I have also witnessed that all those that speak against this gift are liars. They are like the Pharisees that accused Jesus of having a demon, of which He warned them about blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Ignorance of spiritual things is dangerous.
@hargisP2 Again, excuse me... where does it say when "The Pastor is giving the Sermon"? Give me the verse please. You are adding to the Word when making statements like that. Verses 27,28 says, "IF ANY MAN SPEAK IN A TONGUE (Unknown/Ecstatic) LET IT BE..." What is out of context here. Where are you getting your teaching from? No such wording about Pastor and Sermon here or even a hint of this. Please show the text where it says what you say,or those who taught you this incorrect doctrine
@hargisP2 I have just quoted scripture you have added your thoughts and stories. I never said anything against Speaking in a Tongue/Tongues with an interpretation following. But ongoing Ecstatic Utterances by many during service is incorrect behavior according to Paul's writing, it doesn't edify the body when no one understands what they are saying. See what Paul says vs.6-13. Is Paul speaking out of context?
@@hargisP2What? You have nothing to say?
Copy and paste is your go to.
I wonder why brother Urshan doesn't comment back on any of his audiences comments?
Today I did🙂
@@pastorurshan 😀 Thank you for this message!!
Is it a salvation issue if you dont speak in tounges ? Was it just for those people and not for all?
Acts 2:39 KJVS
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The Bible is the authority not man’s opinion. In all the records of converts they spoke in tongues. Acts 19:1-6 KJVS
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, [2] He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. [3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. [4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
God gives His Holy Ghost to enable us to live with His power to overcome the world. Jesus told the disciples to wait at Jerusalem until the power from on high fell upon them. It is the sign that you have been born of the Spirit John 3:5. Clinging to man’s opinion does not bring salvation. Proverbs 14:12 KJVS
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Unfortunately many have led people astray because of their unbiblical teachings. They teach against the Holy Ghost which is a form of blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Seek God. That’s what I did, and while in worship I began to speak an unknown language. The Bible is truth.
Such anger doesn’t come from God. Screaming doesn’t translate to truth.
Why are you trying to merge Is.28 with Zep.3? Zep.is about the end where God gathers all the kingdoms/nations to pour out His Wrath/Fire/Indignation in vs.8 has nothing to do with Is.28 and God's judgment for Israel's leaders and Priesthood not taking heed to His clear ordinances so now He will put them in bondage of people whom they will not understand. This is why Paul uses this quote in Cor.14 for it is total confusion to speak in a Tongue or Tongues with visitors present, they will think you are mad (barbarians) unless it's only done by at the most 3 followed by Interpretations. Bringing in Acts accounts of Tongues with no Interpretor doesn't prove your argument it is out of context
The Pentecostal Church adheres to that passage, I have witnessed it first hand. The only time they are speaking in tongues at once is during worship and prayer. While worshiping God you shouldn’t be focused on what others are doing. You read the whole chapter out of context. You read your opinion into scripture. I know of Baptist and even Methodist churches that while in worship many were speaking in tongues. Only in the last 30-40 years has the teaching against the Holy Ghost has run God out of the churches. As the Bible predicted the apostasy of the falling away. I checked out the Pentecostal Church and found that the others were liars.
@hargisP2 Excuse me? The context of Is.28 is not, to keep it short, a prophecy of Speaking in Tongues. Read the chapter then read the Biblical Prophecy of this day that Isaiah is talking about in, Deut28:49, Jer.5:15, Ez.3:5-6, Is.33:19. This day was coming the fall of Isreal and why and what was going to transpire and not the Gift of the Holy Ghost! You can stand on whatever you want but it doesn't make you correct. Stick with the Scriptures and not your personal reasoning.
Show me where Paul says it's okay to Speak in a Tongue or Tongues in the Assembly? Why does Paul say that visitors are going to think that you are mad if it's done by many. Verses 27,28 say Don't! Unless there is an Interpretation. Show me where that this is out of context and my opinion.
@hargisP2 Hello. You had all this say the other day and now nothing
@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474 basically to sum it up, all your answers are a somewhat, maybe, not sure, etc. This concludes the conversation. Unless you could have answered yes. All your assumptions, beliefs and thoughts are out the door and mean nothing. Many many people who are filled with the Holy Ghost came from places just like you, questionable, atheism, drugs, alcoholism, abuse, etc, etc. Many people with to much pride. But all these one day told themselves they were gonna let go of their pride and let God have his way and BAM, they were filled. Spoke in OTHER Tongues. Whatever your scientific analogy wants to put it. But it was Gods gift of salvation according to the book of Acts. Until you receive his spirit as instructed for salvation, you cannot speak. For by his spirit we have power. There are testamonials beyond measure how the power of God works in us once we arw filles and gives us the strength to live as he instructs us. A Holy and sanctified life.
There is absolutely nothing mysterious about Biblical "tongues" - and there is only one type - when referring to something spoken, they are nothing more than real, rational language(s); usually, but not always, unknown to those listening to them, but always known by the speaker(s) - it’s their native language (in some cases, it is a language the speaker has learned).
In contrast, the “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing underlying sounds (called phonemes) of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with.
It is, in part, typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, alliteration, assonance, and over-simplification of syllable structure. The "nail in the coffin", so-to-speak, is that _any and all_ phonological rules (rules governing how sounds are put together in a given language - what is allowed and what is disallowed) governing a speaker's native language, will _also_ govern their tongues-speech. That fact alone negates anything that can be construed as 'divine' in nature and cements that fact that it is a self-created phenomenon. Further, this subset of phonemes mentioned above typically contains only those sounds which are easiest to produce physiologically.
Occasionally some speakers will use two or more subsets of phonemes to generate glossolalia, producing what, to them, sounds like two (or more) distinct “tongues languages”, thus claiming to be able to speak in “divers tongues”.
There is absolutely _nothing_ that “tongues-speakers” are producing that cannot be explained in relatively simple linguistic terms.
Conversely, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely _no_ Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s), though it may not be the explanation you want to hear, and it may be one which is radically different from what you believe, or were taught. _Nowhere_ in the Bible is modern tongues-speech advocated or evidenced.
“Praying in the Spirit” does _not_ refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will.
I'm not doubting or questioning the 'tongues experience'; glossolalia as the spiritual tool that it is, can be very powerful and, for many people, the experience is profound. As one commenter put it, “Speaking in tongues distracts the ego/analytical/conscious mind while leaving the subconscious (the heart) wide open to import the divine." Both the spiritual and physical benefits of using this tool are also well documented. Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually _any_ other culture that practices glossolalia. Religious and cultural differences aside, the glossolalia an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way; they just have different explanations and beliefs as to why they’re doing it, and where it comes from. It is only in certain Christian denominations where is it construed as something it never was.
“Tongues” is to some Christian believers a very real and spiritually meaningful experience but consisting of emotional release via non-linguistic ‘free vocalizations’ at best; non-cognitive non language utterance - the subconscious playing with sounds to create what is perceived and interpreted as actual, meaningful speech. In _some_ cases, I would argue that it is clearly a self/mass delusion prompted by such a strong desire to “experience God” that one creates that experience via “tongues”.
‘Tongues’ (read, *‘languages’* ) - the divine gift, is the God/Holy Spirit given ability to effortlessly learn to speak and be understood through real-language barriers. It is not xenoglossy (as many people incorrectly assume), nor is it the self-created non-cognitive non-language utterance of what certain Christian denominations are producing today (modern tongues-speech).
As a point of note, I’m a Linguist, and let me also add here that I am neither a so-called ‘cessationist’ nor a ‘continuationist’ - I do not identify with either term; in fact, I had never heard the two terms until just late in 2016. As far as I’m concerned, quite frankly, since the Biblical reference of “tongues” is to real, rational languages, obviously “tongues” haven’t “ceased”.
It’s always a bit interesting to see how different tongues-speakers skate around what for them is that awkward discrepancy between the real, rational languages of Pentecost and the so-called “prayer language “ of Paul’s letter to the Corinthians. The solution seems to be instituting various “types” of “tongues”. There is only one type of “tongue(s)” in the Bible when referring to something spoken - real rational language(s).
And, no, "speaking in tongues" is nowhere to be found in the OT. The oft quoted passage from Isaiah refers specifically to the Assyrian language.
In Zeph. 3:9 what's being discussed is the problem of lies and the need to restore truthfulness - pure speech is necessary to be honest with God as declared in this verse. Sinners, by definition, are not serving God. Thus, God promises to restore and reconcile us (2 Cor 5:18, 19) by purifying us so that we can serve Him with a pure heart, 1 Tim 1:5, 2 Tim 2:22, Ps 24:4, 51:10, Matt 5:8, etc. Zero to do with tongues-speech.
At Pentecost, the apostles weren’t speaking any language they didn’t already know. The spiritual gift given at Pentecost was not that of languages (though a language miracle did occur), but rather prophesy.
This would take a few pages to explain properly; so, for the sake of brevity, I’m considerably simplifying and ‘bottom lining’ the below.
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit did not give the _language_ (i.e., the means/content) of the apostles’ speech, it gave the _manner_ in which it was spoken.
The Holy Spirit gave the 12 (yep, 12, not 120, but that’s a story for another day) apostles what in the Greek text is “apophtheggesthai”. This word is from “apophtheggomai” which is best translated as “to give bold, authoritative, inspired speech to”. Don’t go to Strong’s and look it up though - “Strong’s” is a _concordance_ , not a lexicon; there’s a _huge_ difference.
Without going into what could be considerable detail, when looking at the “language wherein the attendees were born” there are only two: Aramaic and Greek.
The Jews present at Pentecost came from three areas: Judea, the Western Diaspora and the Eastern Diaspora. “All nations under heaven” is an idiomatic expression - Acts II: 9-11 tells us where those visiting were from.
The “list of nations”, as it’s called, of Acts 2: 9-11 is simply that - a list of countries, lands and nations that tell us where these people were from; *not* what language(s) they spoke, as most people assume. Further, the idea that the “tongues” of Acts II was xenoglossy also stems from this false assumption. In the entire narrative not *one* language is ever referenced by name - ever wonder why?
The miracle of language at Pentecost was making the God of the Jews accessible to all people and moreover, not having to do so in one prescribed language: namely, Hebrew, the sacerdotal language of Judaism. The crowd was expecting to hear Hebrew first followed by translations into Aramaic and Greek as was the tradition and practice of the day; what they got were Aramaic and Greek without Hebrew first. Doing this broke a slew of cultural and religious taboos and was virtually tantamount to heresy which accounts for the crowd’s reaction.
The actual gift being emphasized is the fact that the Holy Spirit has empowered the disciples to _prophesy_ and to boldly proclaim the Word of the Lord, and this is exactly what we find in verse 14. Peter “lifted up his voice and _addressed_ them”, but perhaps a better translation would be that he lifted up his voice and _prophesied._ We tend to think of prophecy as a kind of foretelling of future events, but in the Hebrew use, it was more often associated with _speaking forth_ the Word of the Lord. I would argue that, if looking for a gift of the Holy Spirit to assign to Pentecost, it would be more the gift of Prophesy than of Languages.
No xenoglossy, no modern tongues-speech, just real, rational language(s). There *was* a language miracle at Pentecost provided by the Holy Spirit, no argument there; just not the one most people assume.
I don’t often comment on our episodes. I have less time than in the past and back and forth dialogue can be quite time consuming. This post however caught my attention and I am happy to answer it. Thank you for taking the time to post an erudite rejoinder to my segment on Tongues. I appreciate the effort and the attention to detail. That said, I couldn’t disagree more.
1. Your claim - “There is absolutely nothing mysterious about Biblical ‘tongues’”.
Paul says otherwise. He describes two administrations of tongues in I Cor. 14. One is privately praying to God so that one’s spirit receives edification and one that is the public gift of tongues that is for the edification of the church. Paul says this in verse 2, “For he that speaketh in an UNKNOWN tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN UNDERSTANDETH him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh MYSTERIES.” (Emphasis added for clarity)
Mystery is literally the entire point. I disagree that there is nothing mysterious. Mystery is part and parcel of the experience. God designed it that way. To say there is “nothing mysterious about Biblical tongues” is to fly in the face of the great Apostle to the Gentiles.
2. Your claim - “There is only one type”
I imagine you know this in I Cor. 12 but it bears repeating. Paul highlights the diversities of administrations within the Spirit. One God dividing His work into multiple administrations. “4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.”
One is given the gift of diverse tongues to another the gift of interpretation of those tongues. This gift of tongues must be by two or three at the most and they must be in order. This is the gift of tongues. Those that speak in tongues in Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19 however did not follow this protocol. On the day of Pentecost they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in other tongues. At Cornelius house the same happened as it also did at Samaria and at Ephesus. This is not in accordance with the gift of tongues described in I Cor. 12. We know God is not the author of confusion and we know scripture doesn’t contradict itself. To claim these are not two administrations of the same Spirit is to deny the text itself.
There are even some rabbinical sources that claim that the High Priest would speak in tongues inside of the Holy of Holies with the Urim and Thummim of Ex. 28:30. These are not charismatic or pentecostal scholars, these are Hebrew midrashic claims.
In short, the gift of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues is a different administration of the one Spirit of God. This is born out in both Old Testament and New Testament scripture and in practical experience. Pentecost is sweeping the globe. There are more adherents now than at any other time in history. Overriding the protestations of denominational authorities who claim it is impossible, it is nonsense, it is a xenoglossic , self produced phenomenon (which you seem to disavow), etc.
3. Your claim - “The Holy Spirit gave the 12 (yep, 12, not 120, but that’s a story for another day) apostles…”
The idea that only the twelve did so is without merit in that “cloven tongues like as of fire sat upon each of them…”. Now, I can quote Oneness scholars on this as the sources are abundant, but even those outside our ranks recognize that all 120 received this supernatural gift.
Ellicott -“We must not think of the gift as confined to the Apostles. The context shows that the writer speaks of all who were assembled, not excepting the women, as sharers in it. (Comp. Acts 2:17-18.)”
Benson - “Acts 2:4. They were all filled with the Holy Ghost - That is, all the one hundred and twenty, as appears from Acts 2:1.”
Gill - “Not only the twelve apostles, but the seventy disciples; and it may be all the hundred and twenty, that were together, even women as well as men: Acts 2:17.”
To quote just a few, all 120 received the Holy Ghost in this manner. Peter even states that this is the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy “In the last days I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh.” This would be given to the SONS, DAUGHTERS, YOUNG MEN, OLD MEN, SERVANTS AND HANDMAIDS. (Emphasis added) This corresponded to all those that gathered and subsequently to the 3000 that would receive it later in the day. I disagree strongly on this point (along with most scholars) that this was restricted to the twelve apostles.
4. Your claim - “And, no, "speaking in tongues" is nowhere to be found in the OT. The oft quoted passage from Isaiah refers specifically to the Assyrian language.”
Again, Paul expressly states that Isaiah 28 is absolutely part of the New Testament act of speaking in tongues. “21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.” (I Cor. 14:21). Paul certainly links Isaiah 28 with the New Testament administration of speaking with other tongues. There is no doubt that there was an immediate application concerning Assyria. There is also no doubt that Paul sees it as having another, greater application in the New Testament or else he would not have referenced it.
If you are able to speak learnedly concerning linguistics surely you are acquainted with the Law of Double Reference? That a prophecy is fulfilled in the moment and also will be fulfilled on a cosmic scale in greater scope in the ages to come i.e. the “seed” that would inherit all things Isaac/Jesus, the Davidic Kingdom fulfilled in David immediately and in Christ eschatologically, etc. ? Isaiah 28 is a classic example of the Law of Double Reference and I am a bit surprised you limit its scope to an Old Testament event when Paul takes care to extrapolate from that setting into the New Testament for us.
Here is a quote from Barnes, “(1) It was predicted in the Old Testament that what is here stated would occur in the times of the Messiah. Thus, in Isaiah 28:11, "With ...another tongue will he speak unto this people." Compare 1 Corinthians 14:21 where this passage is expressly applied to the power of speaking foreign languages under the gospel.” Again, this is not a Oneness scholar. Most of Christendom knows Isaiah 28 has a greater New Testament underpinning.
These are just four examples highlighting our theological differences. There are more but these were the most glaring.
I can speak to you from a position of respectful scholarly dispute, but I can also speak from my own personal experience. My great grandfather was converted because he heard his native tongue of Aramaic being spoken by an American woman in a prayer meeting in Chicago. I have personally heard a 10 year old Spanish girl in Honduras in the mountain village of La Colonia Sandy Bay speak in fluent English without knowing it in later conversation. These are striking examples of people speaking in a known language without natural understanding. Those that speak in tongues today are simply continuing what happened on the Day of Pentecost and that which Isaiah, Joel, Zephaniah and even Moses said would come.
@@pastorurshan
PART 1 -
_1. Your claim - “There is absolutely nothing mysterious about Biblical ‘tongues’”._
1Cor. 14:2 is perhaps *the* quintessential verse used by many to “evidence” modern tongues-speech in the Bible.
The whole passage is talking about real, rational language.
Let me use an analogy - If I attend a worship service in “East Haystack”, some remote town in the US out in the middle of nowhere, two things are going to be evident: one; there’s only going to be so many people at that service (i.e. there will be a finite given amount of people there) and two; the chances that anyone speaks anything *but* English is pretty slim to nil.
If I start praying aloud in say Lithuanian, there’s no one at that service that’s going to understand a single word I’m saying. Even though I’m speaking a real language, no one _there_ will understand my “tongue”. That does not mean or imply that no one else understands Lithuanian; just no one at _that particular service._
In this sense, therefore, I am speaking _only to God,_ since he understands all languages. To everyone at the service, even though I’m praying in the Spirit (as defined further below), to the people listening to me, I’m still speaking “mysteries” - i.e. even though I’m praying as I ought, no one understands me. An idiomatic expression to say that no one has a clue what I’m saying as no one speaks my language.
When one looks at the original Greek, the verb which is usually translated as “understandeth/understands” is actually the verb “to hear” in the sense of understanding what you’re hearing someone say. The verb is *not* “to understand”. That part of the verse is more properly “no one hears [him] with understanding”, i.e. no one listening to him understands what he’s saying.
There is _nothing_ in this passage that suggests modern tongues-speech nor is there anything that even _remotely_ suggests that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying. The Greek bears this out; it is the _listeners_ who do not understand, *not* the speaker - no matter how hard modern tongues-speakers want the speaker to also not understand…….unless the author of the text is a bad grammarian, it just isn’t there.
“Praying in the Spirit” does _not_ refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will.
_2. Your claim - “There is only one type”_
1 Cor. 12 - many gifts, one Spirit -
In this section Paul sort of hammers home the concept of a singular deity. Most pre-Christian religions (including, of course, that of the Greeks), consisted of a pantheon of deities; oftentimes, major and minor.
Typically, each deity was responsible for a specific thing/concept. In the Germanic tradition, one would not pray to Tyr for advice/petitions concerning fertility; one prayed to Freja. Similarly, for matters of war, one prayed to Tyr, etc.
Since Paul speaks of several gifts, it would have been natural for Greeks (as well as many other religious cultures represented by Corinth’s multi-cultural make-up) to associate each gift with a specific deity.
Paul is just illustrating here that though there are multiple gifts, in Christianity, they all come from, and are bestowed by, one-in-the-same deity; not several.
With respect to the phrases “divers kinds of tongues” and “diversities of tongues” (1 Cor. 12:10 and 28), one needs to look at what was actually written. First, in v. 10, there is no “various” or “different” here; the passage from the Greek is literally “to another, kinds of languages”. Verse 28 is more straightforward; “kinds of languages”. What is pertinent is that Paul renders ‘kinds’ with the word “genos”. It’s the same root as in our English ‘genus, genetics, genealogy’. It refers specifically to ‘kind(s)’ in the sense of belonging to a ‘family’, ‘race’, ‘people’. A more accurate understanding of “kinds of languages” would be “kinds of languages [belonging to a language family]”. A clear indication that real, rational languages are being referred to here.
Paul’s prohibition about the number of foreign language speakers in a public worship goes with not forbidding languages (“tongues”) - More to the point, he is not forbidding someone at a public worship from praying aloud even though no one else understands a word they’re listening to (ties back to v.2). Better for the person to worship God in a language no one else can understand and thus not benefit from (recall that throughout his letter Paul calls for clarity and understanding at a public worship so that all may benefit, not just the one) than to not pray/worship at all. He does, however, set some ground rules for when this happens by limiting the number of speakers to 2-3. Again, he’s not speaking about, nor is he advocating here for, modern tongues-speech.
With respect to Peter with Cornelius and Paul in Ephesus and things being the same as on Pentecost -
A Roman soldier’s “household” typically consisted of his immediate family, a retinue of fellow soldiers, and numerous slaves.
His relatives, like Cornelius, would have presumably spoken Latin. Educated Romans would have also spoken Greek over Latin. Fellow soldiers also spoke Latin, but as Roman soldiers they could have come from just about anywhere in the Empire. Likewise, and especially, his slaves. For these latter two groups, Latin and Greek would have likely been second/third languages.
In short, though his fellow soldiers, and his slaves, spoke Latin, it may not at all have been their native language(s). His slaves almost certainly not. Like the soldiers, their native language(s) could have come from anywhere in the Roman Empire.
In Cornelius’ household, we have several people who comprised a multi-lingual group. We must also surmise that most of this company also spoke Greek in varying degrees.
From the narrative, we know that the incident is reported from the perspective of Peter and his group, and “They (Peter and his company) heard them speaking in languages (“tongues”) and praising God”.
From this, we can deduce two types of speech here: (1) speech that Peter and his group understood, and (2) speech they did not understand.
Considering Peter and his company report in the narrative that they knew that some of what was said were praises to God, it must have been said in a language they knew (likely Greek, but possibly some recognized Latin). Some of what was said however, they did not understand because it was foreign to them. Peter and his company did not speak, nor apparently recognize, those languages.
When a bi-lingual or multi-lingual speaker utters something suddenly/spur of the moment in an emotional outburst (not to be taken with any negative connotations), the speaker will _always_ revert to their native language. That’s just a known fact. These people here were in the same situation and reverted to languages Peter and his company did not speak. Hence, as far as Peter and his company were concerned, they began “speaking in tongues (read “languages”)”.
The reference to the situation being just as it was on Pentecost is a reference to the _manner_ in which they were speaking (i.e. declaring the mighty works of God in a “bold and authoritative manner”), just as the apostles did on Pentecost - it has nothing to do with what language they were speaking, but rather the _manner_ in which they were speaking, that was the same as on Pentecost.
No modern tongues-speech here; just unrecognized real languages.
Paul in Ephesus -
Like Corinth, Ephesus was a cultural melting pot. It was also on a seaport and boasted what we might call today a “tourist attraction”; one of the seven wonders of the ancient world - the temple of Artemis. It’s quite possible, and given what happened based on the narrative, quite probable, that these individuals Paul met were not native Ephesians; thus, not native speakers of Greek.
Again, there are two types of speech referenced here: one that Paul understood, and one he did not.
We are not told what the native language of Paul’s new friends was. It appears however, that both these people and Paul conversed in the ‘common tongue’ of the day: Greek; a language Paul understood.
When Paul baptized them, they may have simply been, out of joy of receiving the Holy Spirit one may assume, expressing themselves in their native language; one that Paul was obviously not familiar with. The fact that they began speaking in a language unknown to Paul, further lends to the idea that these believers were not native Ephesians.
No modern tongues-speech, just the unnamed native language of these disciples.
The midrash’s reference to the ‘language of God’ is not an allusion to ‘tongues-speech’ - it’s a reference to Hebrew, the sacerdotal language of Judaism, which was giving way to vernaculars.
@@pastorurshan
PART 2 -
_3. Your claim - “The Holy Spirit gave the 12 (yep, 12, not 120, but that’s a story for another day) apostles…”_
It was only the 12 who received the Holy Spirit; not 120. The 120 were gathered when Matthias was chosen to replace Judas; thus, the apostles were again all of “one accord” - that phrase refers to the 12. In other words, Acts 1 closes with the new addition of Matthias. The apostles are back to their complete 12. The “they” Acts 2 opens with (verse one), is referring to the 12; they were all of one accord and in one place, i.e., the 12 apostles.
The earlier part of Acts 1 references Jesus telling the apostles that they will be baptized in the Holy Spirit. That is, the 12 apostles; not 108 other people as well.
Those that spoke were all Galileans, a direct reference to the 12 apostles. In addition, when Peter stood and addressed the crowd, he stood together with the 11, not the 119.
Lastly, the day that the 120 or so met to elect Matthias is not at all the same day as the Pentecost. That’s made clear in Acts 2. 120 may have been gathered to elect Matthias, but on a different day, only the 12 were gathered and received the Holy Spirit. There were about 10 days between the time of the Ascension and the day of Pentecost. Pentecost occurring 50 days after Passover and Jesus ascending on the 40th day. It was during this time that the apostles gathered together with the others to select the 12th apostle. After this was done, there was still time left, during the ten days, until the actual day of Pentecost. This is the reason for the first verse of Acts 2 being worded as it is:‘ And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place.” The “they” here is the 12.
One has to accept that, in order to assert that the day of Pentecost demonstrates 120 disciples initially received the Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit (if one subscribes to Biblical text as being the inspired word of God) and “Luke” the author, are bad grammarians.
The antecedent of ησαν (they were) is Matthias and the eleven.
God's grammar is perfect. If you decide that "they were" is not referring to the previous verse, how far are you going to travel back up the text to connect it? You could even go all the way up to the two men in white robes in verse 11, or the group listed in verse 13 which is a smaller subset of the 120, just the eleven and the women.
Would God really leave us with such a conundrum grammatically speaking? If he would do this, then how many other clear passages are we going to reconnect? Why would God be so arbitrary and unclear?
_4. Your claim - “And, no, "speaking in tongues" is nowhere to be found in the OT. The oft quoted passage from Isaiah refers specifically to the Assyrian language.”_
Again - Seeing the Jews will not hear God speaking by his prophets and ministers, in their own language, they will now hear their enemies speaking to them in a strange language. He will teach them in a manner that will be much more humiliating; he would make use of the barbarous language of foreigners (Assyrian) to bring them to the true knowledge of God. They are now in a distant land, and there, in hearing a strange speech, in living long among foreigners, they should learn the lesson which they refused to do when addressed by the prophets in their own land.
The connection to Pentecost is that people will start to teach and spread the word of God in “foreign” languages - languages other than the sacerdotal language of Judaism, Hebrew. This necessity was completely done away with at Pentecost.
Jewish religious custom and tradition demanded that any teaching, praying, reading, prophesying, etc. done from the temple (where the apostles were) be rendered _first_ in Hebrew, then followed by a translation into the vernacular. There even existed an ecclesiastical office for the individuals who did these translations (called the ‘mertugem’). On Pentecost, the apostles broke this tradition and “began to speak in ‘other’ (i.e. _other_ than Hebrew) languages (Aramaic and Greek), as the Holy Spirit kept giving a bold, authoritative, inspired manner of speaking to them.
The apostles, by help and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, did away with this cultural and religious tradition, and addressed the crowd in Greek and Aramaic; the mother tongue of the attendees, instead of the culturally and religiously correct, and expected tradition of Hebrew first, then translations into the vernaculars.
Hebrew was to be exclusively used during “the declaration of first fruits,” which was the sacred liturgy associated with the festival of Shavuot, or Pentecost. In other words, during this particular festival, the crowds would have expected religious services presented in the holy tongue of Hebrew. But what they ended up hearing were powerful messages in “other tongues.”
This is why it was addressed/referenced again in Acts - people were going to be taught, going to worship and pray, prophesy, etc. in languages other than Hebrew. “With other languages he will speak to his people”. It’s in no way al allusion to tongues-speech.
With respect to tongues as xenoglossy -
There are (unfortunately) absolutely no documented cases of xenoglossy - anywhere. Thousands, if not tens of thousands, of examples of tongues-speech have been studied. Not one was ever found to be a real rational language, living or dead. Despite this, the tongues-speaking community is rife with such examples. The frequency that they are reported suggests that tongues as xenoglossy is relatively common.
The above aside, given the amount of allegedly attested examples of xenoglossy reported by Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians, if one were to apply this attestation to even a relatively small sampling of say 2,000 glossic utterances, it is more than reasonable to conclude that at minimum, a phenomenally conservative estimate would suggest that at least 10 of these samples would yield a real, rational language. As stated above, this has never happened; not even once.
Unfortunately, however, virtually every attested example by the tongues-speaking community seems to be anecdotal at best. The quintessential example circulating several years ago was tongues exhibiting as Hebrew or Aramaic. It got to the point where it was almost cliché and reached virtual urban legend status. Any pastor worth their salt had to have such a story in their repertoire. And, of course, let’s not forget that there was always this one lone Jewish guy in a room full of Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians who just happened to be fluent in Hebrew or knew Aramaic - that alone begs a slew of questions and raises multiple red flags.
I have to almost automatically dismiss ‘tongues’ coming out as English - in Honduras, for example, most schools are bilingual - kids are taught in both English and Spanish as they are expected to know at least some English. In most countries it’s a required language and it’s just too common a language - it’s literally everywhere.
❤❤
Sir, you wrote so much of what you don't really understand nor believe. The Holy Ghost is God speaking through us. If he chooses to make the language as you day, yes the bible says they spoke in OTHER tongues AS the Spirit gave UTTERANCE. " UTTER".. Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
@ Hargis Pennington
_"Totally unbiblical and incorrect."_
What this person is presenting - yes, agreed. If you meant my comment, patently false.
You spelled "scripturally accurate and totally biblical" incorrectly. 🙂
You must have been with the disciples in the upper room to know how the tongues today are not the same. That would make you well over two thousand years old.
@@hargisP2
The Bible is pretty specific as to what they were and what the Holy Spirit gave the 12 at Pentecost.
The Bible doesn’t describe how the tongues sounded, only that there were different languages. You think your opinion is more truthful than the word of God. Your comments to me are ineffective. I have a problem of always checking things out Biblically, prayerfully, seeking God’s answer, and going to the very people accused by others. There is always an agenda when someone so vehemently attacks someone else. I researched History from historians on the matters, I attended the Church services of the Oneness Apostolic Church, and found that everything that others were saying was a flat out lie. I found in written history by men that don’t have a dog in the fight verify What they teach about the first Church and The Doctrine of God is true. That the trinity was brought in the church long after the Apostles had died, and was forced by a pagan ruler to be orthodox in order to have peace. Once people tell lies unknowingly or not, they are not to be trusted on anything they say. Because every comment will be to support the first lie.
By the way there was more than 12
So, let me get this straight...The Apostolic gifts...speaking in tongues. You strongly believe the apostolic gifts are here and for today. If that is so, then so is discernment. If you can recognize tongues then you can equally recognize discernment which none of you guys speak on. So, if someone test the spirits like he is told, has the gift of discernment, found what you are doing to not be of God, YOU IGNORE the person with a gift that God has given us all. You guys simply lack discernment either by choice of by ignorance. I don't think a single one of you actually studied what really happened with the Azusa Street Revival. Who introduced Old Seymour to the practice of speaking in tongues? Does Lucy Farrow ring a bell? She also introduced good old Seymour to Charles Parham right? How about just a glimpse of just Seymour's ignorance... This is Seymour's "understanding of women in ministry and can be found in the September 1907 edition of the Apostolic Faith: Before Jesus ascended to heaven, holy anointing oil had never been poured on a woman's head:But before He organized His church. He called then all into the upper room, both men and women and anointed them with the oil of the Holy Ghost, thus qualifying them all the minister in this Gospel." Where? Where in Bible does it say that? (the oil of the holy ghost part) Seymour was married to Jennie Evans Seymour (who they remained celibate throughout the marriage.) Weird, but let's move on. Who taught Seymour? Who guided Seymour? Who mentored Seymour? Lucy Farrow..why? Listen to this, "Women were so involved in every aspect of his spiritual development; moreover, WOMEN WERE WILLING TO FOLLOW HIS TONGUES DOCTRINE AND EXPERIENCE IT'S FULL EFFECTS AS A PUBLIC WITNESS." i.e. easily deceived!! OH AND BY THE WAY...A FEW YEARS LATER, HE STOPPED ALL WOMEN FROM BEING IN AUTHORITY OVER MEN. DIDN'T KNOW THAT DID YA? A woman (Agnes Ozman) and Charles Parham claimed (Agnes) to have spoken Chinese ( a study no doubt that has been proven that her writings were in fact...NOT CHINESE!!! Just scribble...Nonsense, squiggly lines with no meaning. Since you all will not follow scripture, read a history book...Better yet, TRY to disprove what you believe and if you still believe after that, knock yourselves out. QUIT YOUR JOBS, GET YOUR BUTT IN THESE HOSPITALS AND HEAL SOMEBODY!! GO...SELL ALL YOU HAVE, ACTUALLY DO WHAT JESUS COMMANDED THE ACTUAL APOSTLES TO DO IN MATHEW 10 10 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal ALL manner of sickness and ALL manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; ****YOU ARE NOT ON THIS LIST**** first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. ***** HE INDIVIDUALLY NAMED THEM*****
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.****FREELY**** PREACH ON TITHING THIS SUNDAY****
STOP RIGHT HERE. WHERE DID JESUS TELL THE APOSTLES TO GO? TO THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL!! THAT'S CORRECT. WHERE DID JESUS TELL THE DISCIPLES NOT TO GO? NOT IN THE WAY OF THE GENTILE, ((what are you?)) AND INTO THE CITY OF THE SAMARITANS!! SO, GET A SHIP AND SAIL TO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. BUT, WAIT.....THIS IS THE PART EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU LEAVE OUT AND REFUSE TO DO...THE REST OF THE COMMAND....
**9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
**10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
**11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
You take scripture out of context, you ignore the teachings of Paul, and most have to replace Israel with the Church and why....YOU ARE SCARED OF WOMEN OR YOU ARE ONE. SOME OF YOU MEN HAVE BECOME TIMID LITTLE CHILDREN WHO DRAW INTO A CORNER WHEN CONFRONTED BY A WOMAN (THINK LUST OF THE FLESH)
The Azusa "revival" was more about getting more women into ministry and those women did nothing but deceive men. You have not studied anything but let some fool guide you to a delusion he or she can not and has not proven. You may hear stories, but that is all they are, stories, exaggerated stories. You want to be led by the Holy Spirit? I believe most do. But you CAN NOT DISREGARD THE BIBLE IN DOING SO AND THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING. HERE'S THE KICKER...IT IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT YOU ARE FOLLOWING, IT IS THE KUNDALINI spirit. IT IS PRACTICED IN HINDUISM...YOU KNOW, THAT RELIGION THAT YOU GET THE WORD "KARMA" YOU CHRISTIANS LOVE TO USE BUT, HAVE NO IDEA OF THE TRUE MEANING OF THE WORD. GUESS WHAT, IT AIN'T CHRISTIANITY. LOOK FOR A VIDEO ABOUT THE KUNDALINI SPIRIT AND COMPARE IT TO Pentecostal JERKING MESS YOU PEOPLE DO.
Lastly, many, many people, like myself have studied the scriptures, prayed, tested the spirits and have concluded that based on the only objective evidence left, Ozman's experience was not genuine. Biblically, it is not what is practiced today. You can not do the miracles of the Apostles, no one alive today, no one you've seen on T.V. has ever had the apostolic gifts. Imagine if every believer had the gift to raise the dead. No one would be dead. Healing, forget about it, no C19 around you guys. No cancer, no glasses, no stomach aches, no DRUG OVERDOSES. AHHHH, SO, YOU DIDN'T HEAL THE DRUG ADDICTS SO THEN IT'S PRETTY MUCH YOUR FAULT PEOPLE ARE DYING DUE TO OVERDOSES? BEGS THE QUESTION THOUGH DOESN'T IT. OH AND DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE WEATHER, CONTROLLING THE WEATHER. ALL THE INNOCENT CHILDREN DYING OF CANCER!! WHERE YA AT!!
YOU DON'T WANT TRUTH...YOU SEEK GLORY... YOU THINK YOU ARE GODS (Creflo Dollar said you are)
DO YOU KNOW WHO SPOKE IN "TONGUES BEFORE THE LITTLE GIRL AND BEFORE THE SO CALLED "REVIVAL"
MORMONS IN THE MID 1800'S. UP IN NY. ....YOU GUYS KNOW NOTHING AND YOU WORSHIP LIES
WORRY LESS ABOUT THE SIGNS AND WONDERS AND PRAY FOR DISCERNMENT, BECAUSE WITHOUT IT, YOU WILL BE DECEIVED, WILLFULLY? MAYBE! I CAN'T CONVINCE YOU, HOPEFULLY I CAN ONLY MAKE YOU MAD ENOUGH TO TAKE ME UP ON THE OFFERS THAT I HAVE LAID ON THE TABLE. QUIT YOU JOB, RAISE THE DEAD, DRINK POISON, HANDLE SNAKES, PROVE YOURSELF WRONG, AND FOR THE LOVE OF THE LORD...STOP READING THE NIV!! FINALLY, DON'T GET SO MAD AT ME THAT YOU THINK I'M GOING TO READ YOUR RESPONSE FROM THIS COMMENT ( IF IT STAYS UP ) UNTIL YOU'VE READ "THE TOPEKA OUTPOURING OF 1901" THEN WE CAN HAVE A KNOWLEDGEABLE CONVERSATION. UNTIL THEN...NEVER LET A FOOL GUIDE YOU TO WATER...
Not all other gifts are given to everyone. You are accusing the Holy Ghost of being not from God. That is blaspheming the Holy Ghost, which you did not discern. Your misunderstanding of scripture is not having the gift of discernment. Your anger against the gifts of the Holy Ghost is in line with the adversary. Matthew 12:22-31 KJVS
Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. [23] And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? [24] But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. [25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: [26] And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? [27] And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. [28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. [29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. [30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. [31] Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
You are a Pharisee. Unbelief is your problem. Your discernment has misled you. Ever consider that the devil is leading away from the gifts of the Holy Ghost because he knows that is the power that gives the believer the ability to overcome? How is discernment that goes against God’s word not from the evil one?
@@hargisP2 Nobody is talking about the ability to overcome except you. Believers have the ability to overcome though Christ who strengthens us. I’m not talking about the ability to overcome. I’m talking about the ability to raise the dead, speak in different languages, heal the sick, drink any poison, handle snakes. You give a Bible verse of a conversation between Jesus and the Pharisee. Jesus was speaking first of all, to the Pharisee, not “you” speaking to “me”. Jesus has all power, and Glory, you do not. That’s what you don’t realize and can not come to grips with. You are not a god. My belief begins and ends in Christ, the author and finisher of my faith. My belief is not in man. Yours may be, but not mine. Blasphemy is for the sinner. Not for the believers. Romans 8:1-2. You do not study the Bible apparently, because you take the scripture out of context. You read the Bible as if you are God. “ If Jesus can do it, so can I”. That is delusional. So again, study the Bible, stop taking it out of context, stop reading the Bible as if you are the main character. You are not. You call me a Pharisee because I do not believe in you. Give me a break. You are the fool who believes in only yourself. Jesus proved over and over again He is who he says He is. You, on the other hand have proven nothing but a clear misunderstanding of the true nature of your sins, the lack of knowledge and wisdom. Whether it be by choice or ignorance, you lack, do not possess, and can not perform the gifts of the true and only Apostles of the Bible. That does not make Jesus less than what He says He is, it just makes you less than what you think you are. Humble yourself, and if you can not, like I wrote, that you did not acknowledge, go. Go and raise the dead, heal the sick, what are you waiting for. You call me a Pharisee because I’ve called you out and don’t believe you. That is not blaspheming. You can’t take the fact that you are merely a servant of the Lord and should be thankful you have been called, but you are not a god yourself. What are you scared of? Go and watch a video or listen to a sermon that disagrees with you. I’ve watched thousands that agree with you. I’ve watched thousands of videos that claim to prove the gifts of the Apostles are for today. I’ve also listened to Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyers, Steven Fyrdik. (However he spells it) Bill Johnson, and many, many others who say “ you are gods “. I’ve heard Steven say “I AM GOD!” So, don’t hand me a scripture to read that you’ve taken out of context to prove anything to me. I won’t call it blasphemy, but I will call it ignorant. I would at this time call attention to a scripture written by the Apostle Paul, but you guys ignore the inspired word of God written by him. So, best to you and yours. I won’t comment back to you, you’ve proven you lack everything to have a conversation concerning anything about the Bible. I will not apologize for believing in God, that Christ is my Lord and Savior, and not believing in you.
The Biblos network, you Oneness people don't understand Acts 2: 38. Because it's not what the Biblical Greek says. The translators have misled Biblically ignorant people with Acts 2: 38 and other scriptures on baptism.
You don't have eternal Holy Ghost, you have the spirit of antichrist that's in you, as the Bible says about those who deny the Father AND the Son as two distinct persons in the ONE God.
Nowhere does the Bible say we have to been born of the water, Jesus didn't mention water until Nicodemus said how can a person enter his mother's womb a second time and be born again, so Jesus said just like you had a natural birth when your mother's WATER broke, you need to have a spiritual birth.
Please keep Jn 3: 4--7 in it's right context.
The baptism with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues isn't the initial evidence of salvation. The rebirth is the evidence of salvation, which is a separate experience to the baptism with the Holy Ghost.
The Apostles and disciples in Jn 20: 19-- 22. Anyone who knows the Bible will know that Peter was born again when Jesus breathed the Holy Ghost into them in
Jn 20: 22. Because in Jn 21, Jesus said Peter had the Agape love of God in him, a person can't have the Agape love of God them unless they are born again.
The disciples in Acts 8 were saved and baptised in water, but they weren't baptised with the Holy Ghost until Peter and John came from Jerusalem and laid hands on them.
Saul was saved for three days before he was baptised with the Holy Ghost, Acts 9: 6--17.
The Gentiles were saved just before they were baptised with the Holy Ghost, Acts 11: 14, says the Gentiles were saved when Peter preached the gospel to them.
V1 says they received the Word, as did the disciples in Acts 8: 14. (They were saved before they were baptised with the Holy Ghost).
The disciples in Acts 19 were saved, they could have been saved for up to twenty years, but they weren't baptised with the Holy Ghost until they met Paul.
Paul knew they were saved.
You aren't saved, as the Bible says about those who deny the trinity.
Alan, why do you insist on making the same comment every time? How many times does someone have to argue with you?
Don’t you see that the earth itself has already experienced a water baptism? The Bible says that it repented God that he had made man, and then he buried the earth in water.
When he returns the second time, he will make a new Heaven and new earth. How?
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
2 Peter 3:10 KJV
Water baptism washed away the evil the first time, and then fire baptism will purify the earth for the last time.
The tabernacle of the Old Testament had an altar (repentance), followed by water, and then the next place was the menorah.
The doorposts had to be struck three times with the blood of the Passover lamb. This is representative of the witness of the Spirit, the water, and the blood in 1 John 5.
You believe that you can be saved without the Holy Ghost. That’s not Biblical, Alan. I pray that you see how much God loves you and wants you to be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
@@daltonjames8466 Very well said. II Timothy 2:25
Jesus Loves you !!! It is not by coincidence that you were led to the Bible study !!!
@@Robertsrex941 God led me to tge video to show how unsaved the Oneness people are.
@@daltonjames8466 you Oneness people love twisting the scriptures and making things up, things that oppose the Bible.
Nowhere does the Biblical Greek say water baptism saves, remits sins, washes sins away, regenerates, justifies, puts people into the body of Christ or is needed for salvation.
The translators have misled Biblically ignorant people with scriptures on baptism.
Why don't your leaders see what the Biblical Greek says instead of deceiving you.