Haha, needed this today💗. Literally, a few hours ago was informed by a family member that I was in a cult because I choose to wear dresses/skirts. Funny thing through, is the same family member shortly later told me she felt like I was a better person and more happy since going back to church and reconnecting with God. Friends and family can believe we are in a cult, but they cannot deny the change God has done in our lives for the better!!
@@Dallendh Yes, we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8). However, after being saved if we allow God, He will start working on the inside of us. What is on the inside manifest itself outwardly. You are correct though it was not the skirt that did the change in my life but the power of God .
Pastor Urshan, I have never heard holiness taught with this much detail from the Old Testament. The clean and unclean animals really blew my mind. Once you broke that down, I was stunned at how much it made sense. Thank you for your study and interpreting of the word of God.
Whenever conversations come up about outward appearance I often recall a comment that Pastor Johnny Godair made one Sunday night as he was reading the verses in the New Testament about the demoniac running naked among the tombs. He said this goes to show you that the more devils you have, the less clothes you have on. After he encountered Jesus who cast the devils out of him, the next scene we see is him fully clothed, in his right mind, and sitting at the feet of Jesus. Pastor Godair said this illustrates that the devil is trying to pull your clothes off but Jesus is trying to put them on. The love for Jesus and the gratitude for what He did was so dramatic that this man did not want to leave the presence of Jesus; the change in him was automatic.
Chapters: 00:00 Welcome And Introduction 02:00 Apostolic Distinctives: Modesty And Lifestyle Choices 03:42 Challenges Faced By Former Apostolic Groups 05:19 Addressing Misconceptions About Oneness Pentecostalism 07:13 Understanding Apostolic Teachings On Authority And Holiness 08:45 Understanding Religious Extremism And Its Impact 10:37 Remaining Faithful In Unjust Circumstances 12:46 The True Meaning Of Holiness In Christianity 14:18 The Debate On Holiness And Appearance 16:05 The Dangers Of Following Personal Desires 17:52 Inner Holiness Vs. Outward Appearance 19:34 Holiness Principles Of Clean And Unclean Animals 21:25 The Metaphor Of Unclean Animals And Honest Conversations 23:04 The Consequences Of Straying From Holiness 25:00 Interpreting Deuteronomy 22:5: Gender Distinction In Apostolic Faith 26:47 The Principle Of Distinction In Biblical Creation 28:24 Theological Distinctions Between Man And Woman In The Bible 30:05 Understanding Gender Roles In Biblical Texts 31:48 The Role Of Family Structure In Social Stability 33:30 Gender Distinction And Religious Interpretations 35:09 Biblical Perspectives On Gender Roles And Clothing 36:45 Deuteronomy 225 And The Moral Order 38:25 Distinctions In Ancient Clothing And Moral Implications 40:17 Understanding Holiness Through Conduct
I love listening to these dialogues! I've been apostolic for 30+ years and I love the distinction of genders in dress. I love that I can be in a crowded place far from home and recognize other apostolics by sight. I love feeling feminine in my long modest skirts. I loved it from day one, coming out of a religious upbringing that left one "to do that which was right in his own eyes" when it came to lifestyle and dress. The other two Abrahamic faiths have gender distinction in their orthodoxy. As was mentioned, this is foundational from creation. Even animals are in many cases distinguished in gender by outward appearance. When I dress in the morning it is my daily reminder to seek the Lord and walk in his will.
Went to a event years back. Saw an Apostolic family. First question I asked was “ Are you Pentecostals?” Yes was the answer. Next question, “Are you Apostolic ??” The answer was “Yes” My reply was “Praise the Lord “. We enjoyed a good conversation. I never left the Movement. Never called our group a Church….but a movement.
@@buckeyewill2166 For the record. We must not mistake Islam as being Abrahamic, because the Word of God is God. John 1 KJV, but these are great points that you mention.
Holiness is not only the inward manifesting itself outwardly in dress; it is in speech, conduct, maturation, etc., which has been addressed on Biblos before.
In the short period time that I have been listening to the apostolic message I am learning more about the God of my dreams. If that means that I am becoming part of a "cult", then okay. The messages have brought me closer to Jesus.
Thank you for this podcast. I'm so thankful for the truth. I'm so thankful for the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm so thankful that Jesus Christ died for my wretched sins. I'm so thankful for the mercy of God.
It’s sad 😞 here in Louisiana we have so many church letting go of their outward Holiness .. they call it new age Pentecost.. when my husband and I was getting back in church we had to visit several to find one that still teaches holiness principles.. at one of the churches I was told,” that God spoke to one of the ladies and told her to cut her hair because it gave her headaches”. She told me! Her hair hit below her knees and now it stays at her shoulders. God spoke to her and then confirmed it. A lot of times these church call themselves nondenominational. However now that is not the case. I love my outward show of inward change. It isn’t something that bothers me or that I fight. There is beauty in outward holiness and I hate so many are letting it go. 😢 It confuses backsliders too! One of the churches we were visiting I told the pastor people are doing things I did when I backslid . I called it backsliding and they are calling it liberation … We need good teachers to rise up and teach biblical truths that will open people’s eyes as to why holiness principles are so important..
I live in Louisiana too and wasn't raised Pentecostal, we thought no church in our area still taught like what is being spoke about here we found one! Our Pastor is sold out and loves the word of God and preaches and teaches all of this 🙏🙌🙏
I grew up in the Apostolic faith. I no longer identify myself in any “faith” but I am just a Jesus loving individual! I love God and I not only read the Bible but I am studying it so I can truly understand God’s heart. I was one of those hurt individuals. That hurt runs deep. Outward appearance and following the standards given to me by my pastors over the last 20+ years was stressed so hard that I had the belief that if I didn’t follow them all, I was lost. Hell bound. I had so much fear and anxiety. I believe in modesty. I believe in holiness. My problem lies with things like sleeve length, the length of a skirt, showing my shoulders, wedding rings, etc. my mindset was that if anyone I saw outside of these set standards meant they were not going to get into heaven. It was such a sad way to look at people. I am 31 years old and I struggle now because of how strong those standards were placed on me. If I wear loosely fitting pants that were made for women to wear (cut in a way that a man cannot fit) am I going to hell? I struggle with this.
I’ve only been Apostolic for 5 years and didn’t have any church experience growing up. I agree that it is sad seeing in public women wear pants, or people wearing wedding rings, or revealing clothing, colored hair, etc. you name it. Anything you consider a standard… we are not the judge and I think it’s a lot healthier to look at people and think they are learning about Jesus and drawing closer to God. We really don’t know if they just got the Holy Ghost and were baptized and might be in the early stages of having holiness appear on the outside. Idk if this response helps with the struggle you mentioned in your comment. To answer your question about wearing pants fitted for women, I would say it’s about gender distinction. I’m not gonna condemn anyone for clothing because I think ultimately it goes back to the heart. There’s women in my church I know don’t wear skirts/dresses in public but always do to church… idk how to answer that and I’m not gonna condemn them either but the Bible is clear on gender distinctions and if you don’t wanna follow it… well that’s between you and God and forcing standards isn’t helping anyone either. I’ll be praying for you sis 🙏❤️ at the end of the day I think it’s about wanting to please God even if it’s not convenient or popular. One thing to note is all women wore skirts/dresses in the world 70 years ago as they did for hundreds of years. Now all of a sudden they wear yoga pants and sports bras out. Society has changed, not Gods word. And even if I’m wrong I’d rather error on the side of caution
I am a firm believer that we need to let people get their own convictions, especially a new convert. 35 years ago when I first started going to church some ladies on my second visit told me I needed to wear dresses. I had such a rebellious attitude about it, I said Ok. And after they left my house (after a bible study) I went into my bedroom with a big old attitude and put on a dress, I ripped that dress off sooo quickly I may have tore it, lol. It was maybe two years later that God started dealing with me. I prayed about it an asked God how he wanted me to dress. An evangelist at another church I started attending said in the last days that the women were going to look like the men, and the men look like the women. That night I went home and threw all my pants in the trash. And btw. he didnt even mention that women should not wear pants. I wear dresses now because I know in my heart that is how God wants me to dress, not because I let somebody force that way of thinking on me. People dont want to ask God that because they truly dont want to hear what He has to say. God bless.
@@susanspatz9501 that’s amazing and I 100% agree that new converts need to get those convictions for themselves. God will deal with people about that stuff overtime and the church shouldn’t force it or try to rush the process. I also think there’s a balance of teaching holiness too but it’s got to be done with the right spirit and not be taught too early to new converts
@@nickkkk495 It took me many years in church to change my way of thinking about that type of thing. I truly believe that God wants us all to wear dresses, but like I said we all need to get our own convictions about it. I brought a friend/neighbor of mine to church, she went on a regular basis, one time when she stopped going I went to her house and seen that she was wearing pants, I had a big self righteous attitude about it and told her she needs to stop wearing pants. I think it was maybe the very next Sunday that our Pastor preached about that, he said very clearly that its not our business to tell others how to dress. Boy, did I get a wake-up call.
1 John 2:27 “But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
People are going to argue about this until Jesus returns. I believe if you truly fall in love with Jesus you have no issues with following holiness principles bc they draw you nearer to the one whom you claim to love the most. And certainly our heavenly Father has put us under our shepherds for good reason. If that shepherd is out of line with God. Pray about it and ask God to show you and your leader and have a good open honest conversation about it. Instead of bashing an entire group of people with zero attempts at clearing up misunderstanding and the reason we follow holiness the way we do.
For me it comes down to relationship with God if you know him then you won’t have a problem doing what he wants or asks of you. It comes to my mind when God Ask Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac.. he knew God was faithful..
Look at Oklahoma. There is practically a "Holiness Church" every mile. There is a holiness highway. They have the same standards as Apostolic yet no one says anything negative about them. I made friends at a local holiness church and it is almost exactly like The Apostolic church. While many Apostolic folks seem like they have a need to apologize for holiness, the men and women at the holiness are unapologetically proud to be holiness and separated from worldliness . I love that. They don't watch tv but theybare allowed to have i phones and computers and video and some of the churches upload recorded services onto TH-cam tube.
I had a dream of 3 states North Carolina was one state, there was Ohio, and Utah. Im waiting for an answer from the Lord tonwhat it means. Iam so glad that thenscripture is someady to underatand via the HolyGhost
How do I accept holiness standards and not be critical of others. I mean wearing modesty is easy to comprehend. It's other specifics I have trouble finding scripture especially length of hair for men. I need to find the scripures for these things for if anyone asks me. I recieved conviction for my hair length at home, shortly after I got saved, before I heard 1 sermon about it. The next conviction I experienced was rock and roll music. About 11 years later itbwas exposing hair on my chest.
I attended a little apostolic church with about a range of 5-20 people at any given time and clothing got you behind the pulpit before a good prayer life. People would dress to please the pastor and at home kept their house filthy treated their kids and foster kids like tax write offs but in church they got the good seats It’s like a story a preacher told : a pastor was building a church and when the foundation was laid he called all his friends over and said look at this foundation. 1 year later he invites them back and says look at my foundation 5 yrs 10 yrs after 30 yrs the pastors dies and his friends show up and there is nothing but a foundation He had the foundation of Acts 2:38 no walls no roof no doors no windows just a foundation and that church had 5 members after 30 yrs That is a true description of that little church I attended There is a new pastor there now so we will see if he builds walls roof windows and doors. If people in a church look exactly the same you are not winning people who got caught up in the world. Tats battle scars maybe a earring maybe a lady wearing pants and cut hair
Modesty is beautiful in men and women in the church. I was drawn to the modesty when I came into truth! I have no problem with teaching women and men to wear modest apparel and the dress for a woman worn modesty is spot on. Where I struggle and have for years is in us men wearing the pants! I wish he had not interrupted you when you began talking on the robes! The original “ God garment” was a coat. I feel the men here in our culture has fallen short! We are grafted in the Hebrew vine. We should not follow cultural norms here. That’s a cop out to me. I love Biblos….. drink coffee from my Biblos cup daily. Blessings
19:18 I also believe that animals that only chew the kud(?) but don't have a split hoof only have it internally are unclean. Animals that have the split hoof but don't chew the kud only have it externally (pigs). You have to have it both internally and externally.
There are apostolic churches now, that have made small groups play the series" The Chosen " and even after the alarm was sounded off about the main character "Jesus " had actually layed at the grave of an former Jesus movement guy, and prayed to the dead for answers and supposedly the church doors flung opened and an organ note played and he took it as a sign that he was to play the dead man's character in a movie about the dead guy. The Chosen was still made to be shown in homes and even at church. Scary so very scary.
Church people know not to mention "The Chosen" (which I have never seen and never would) or the involvement of sports around me. I don't cringe, make faces, or anything, they just know my stance that I don't agree with those forms of entertainment.
There has to be a standard of holiness (to some extent) being taught by the preacher or the people will lack conviction. In many charismatuc churches the people have trouble discerning conviction from condemnation. Some of those places have liberty for clothing but lack liberty in worship and don't allow for spontaneous moves of the spirit. They are only allowed to worship on Q when prompted by the preacher and spontaneous worship is often considered an interuption. ...and don't run the isles or they might sit you down and tell you you're out of order. If I had to pick between liberty in attire and maximum liberty in worship, guess which one I'm going to pick.I also noticed many charismatic camps acn be very manipulative in other areas that don't have anything to do with how one dresses. Some are manipulative about tithes and offerings.
Praise Him, brother urshan. Through my studies. And internet dialogs with trini's is that their false prophet has made a 2nd gospel. And they have actually said this to me, that there are 2 gospels, one for the Jew and 1 for the gentile. Which is a lie from the pit of Hell. They believe where paul says in Roman's 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: And by this, they swear a doctrine of truth. But we know that even the apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 3:15-16 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. We know all Gods word applies to all. There is only one church that belongs to Jesus. And that is the one that was birthed on the day of Pentecost. Scripture calls those that swear by this doctrine are UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST. This is what the Merriam Webster dictionary says about the word wrest. 1. to pull, force, or move by violent wringing or twisting movements 2. to gain with difficulty by or as if by force, violence, or determined labor. I love the Apostolic doctrine it is of God and I praise my Lord and my God. And He alone is worthy of my worship and praise. God bless brother.
If my husband likes when I wear red I’ll wear it everyday! When God has a “favorite “ I’ll wear it everyday! God loves Holiness … Amen! If I concern myself with my own holiness and not others or others lack there of it’s part of holiness. A God called Pastor has authority to address this issue and I can be concerned what’s asked of me but the rest I can’t be concerned with.
Jesus said from the abundance of the heart the mouth speakth. So every action that a man does it's already conceived in the heart. People will always leave their first love in the church as the saints in Ephesus. In the church there will be always people who envy and covet the things of this world
Question: how do you arrive at the comparison between holiness and the clean and unclean animals? It seems like a stretch to me. You could make that same point without making this comparison. Also, in the New Testament these become clean.
The serpent knew as soon as Eve said "Neither shall ye touch it" that Eve did not know the Word of God, for God never said that they could not touch the fruit. There is some good old fashioned Exploring God's Word for ya! Enjoying the podcast!
Ephesians 8:2-9 is Acts 2:38, Grace is what gets us to the cross where the blood can work in our lives it is that grace that Paul is talking about Ephesians in the church of Ephesus, it is that faith that when we step out that we are also saved by Faith that works is dead and that in fact doesn’t allow grace to work. Grace and Faith are a double sided coin Paul speaks of grace and James speaks of faith.
As a former United Penecostal and apostolic the importance of "looking" holy i.e. dresses, skirts, long hair, no make up etc…..took PRECEDENCE over incorporating the teachings of Jesus in our hearts. It is ALWAYS the outward appearance that is of UPMOST IMPORTANCE that even in the first few minutes of your video that you are speaking of! Unfortunately, the teaching of gossiping, arrogance, jealousies aren’t so important to push as you don’t wear those as OUTWARD APPEARANCE. An example of the OUTWARD APPEARANCE being most important was a young girl getting pregnant by a church leader and as her SIN was visible then of course she was shunned and sent off to a family in another city. Now as the SIN wasn’t visible on the male then he continued in his position. Again, many that come into a church it takes just a few seconds for the person (usually the female) to be sized up and judged by this "holiness" measurement. No, thank you! We walked away from this legalistic movement because despite your speaking of God’s love the ultimate measurement is based on whether you meet the OUTWARD APPEARANCE!
Yes unfortunately many do focus on it too much, the inside determines the outside and not the other way around. That being said, if there is chapter and verse for these teachings then they are true and it does no good to deny them and say "I'm free to do what I want". There are many things I don't agree with the church on, because as much as I have looked in the Bible I don't see reason for certain teachings. But be very careful about pushing back on things just for the sake of it, God didn't write every specific thing that He doesn't want us to do but there is very clear reasoning behind the majority of holiness teachings. 1 Corinthians 6:12 NKJV All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. If you are Holy on the inside it will show, and if you're unholy on the inside it'll show too. I don't comply with everything that the pastor might want, but if the Bible says it or lays out a principle concerning it, I'll do it.
Rejecting all outward holiness simply because a misguided person puts too much emphasis on it is like saying, “I’m gonna quit eating food because I know a few people who eat WAY too much!” Can we (as fallible humans) be overzealous at times? Sure. Does it mean we should not concern ourselves with the outward appearance of our temple of God? Of course not. If you study about the dress standards of the early church, they were much more strict than we are today. I pray that your experience at church wouldn’t cause you to be hurt so badly that you throw out these very important principles of holiness. God bless!
I am part of an Apostolic church that does emphasize inner holiness as well as outward. And my pastor isn't the only one. It's hard to be accurate and make blanket statements at the same time. There are definitely good pastors that love God and preach/teach sound doctrine. God bless you 🙏
Ah! A gentleman AND a scholar! I enjoy linguistic gamesmanship as much as the next man. Indulge me. If we take a look beyond the cursory glance at Google we will find that denominal is an earlier form of denominative. In the context to which you refer (grammar) it does indeed mean “derived from a noun”. I however am using it in its older form which means “ conferring or constituting a distinctive designation or name” which aligns with the actual word denomination. The word “denomination” is used to separate people into sects of religious order circa 1893 while the older usage is pre-1400. Both usages arise from the Greek word for name “onoma “ which evolved into the Latin prefix de- “completely” and “nominare “ which means to name a people. Though I didn’t intend to use it in the context you speak of, if it helps to avoid confusion, I’ll work to use the modern form you seem to like as opposed to the older form from which it springs.
Pants pertain to a Male. Even the restroom signage tells you this. In World War 2 times, females started wearing pants to fill the jobs of absent males. That doesn't make it right or justify it. Females should not be wearing pants. Aside from that on a separate note, I wear what I call short pants in hot times. They are loose fitting pants that go below the knee. I would consider those that are snug fitting and above the knee as not dressing in moderation and I would not consider them as "short pants" but as something more like underwear. Going around in underwear is not dressing in moderation.
T.S. 16:45 You make light of what Scriptures say about being led by the Spirit because it is brought out by other churches and yet that is what the the Scriptures say. Infact, you say that we need to be controlled by the pulpit in these areas. You make fun of what it could be like if you let the saints go, but again that is what the scriptures tell us. Did the saint receive a different. or lesser Spirit than you? Paul is writing that the saint be governed by the Spirit. Gal. 5 put away the works of the flesh, and he names them. Now what is so hard to understand about that? Be led by the Spirit, and he wrote this to a church that was worse off than the Corinthians. You can tell by the way he addresses them and why? because they were wanting to be governed by the law/bondage and not by His Spirit. He even said, because he was so angry with them; "who hath bewitched you?..."
Our outward appearance is not righteousness itself; it's the outward growth of righteousness. Agreed - every decision we make is an outgrowth of God's Spirit at work in us. However, based on your arguments it sounds like if one detaches himself from these specific holiness teachings he's lost truth altogether, and so to walk with Jesus a different way is to not really walk with Him. Are all sincere Christ-following people who don't look like you all not truly righteous? How do you account for the different standards in different churches in your movement? Rings, sleeve length, makeup, nail polish, even head coverings - there's variance in the application of all that. If you couldn't tell, I'm speaking as one who has left the UPC (not at all hurt and grateful for my upbringing) and honestly come to different conclusions on these teachings. I walk daily with Jesus, read His Word, and have a community of believers around me seeking to grow God's kingdom and growing it - with fruit and love abounding more than I ever saw in my UPC churches. The heart may be wicked and deceitful, but God can know it. Is that not what He sees when man looks on the outward? Does God not change our heart when He fills it? I understand my potential for depravity, and at the same time, God is making me to be more like Him.
I believe in the Apostolic doctrine as written in the word of God line upon line and precept upon precept. We do have some teachings that are not bible nor something the Spirit has given us. Men of God were taught these things and they have locked their hearts on it and will say things about it and are dead wrong. Beards- and I do not mean to criticize. I believe in outward holiness as the Bible teaches. But men are taught that to be beardless is Gods way. David and his men wore beards. The children of Ammon shaved their beards to shame them. The prophecy said they plucked the beard of Jesus the messiah. God gave facial hair to distinguish men from women. I am called to be an evangelist and a teacher. I have heard many pastors who are anointed men of God erroneously teach this. Could this be ignored ? Yes. But my family has to travel the country for work. We have had to sit in assemblies hungry for God. Doing the work of God even in unfamilar cities. Walking with God in consecration. But the Pastor stands behind the pulpit and says I believe men should be clean shaven every day.
There is NO biblical mandate for women to wear dresses. It is a decision made by Pastors in the West based on cultural norms. At most a Church leader could say “we feel this is honoring to God, and help maintain a distinction between the sexes”. They cannot and absolutely should not say this is God’s commandment and you are sinning if you don’t do this.
They may not have but might as well have. @@MrJimgogo I know someone who's church calls out men for not wearing white shirts. Literally said, "If you're wearing a pink shirt, you're going to hell." How unbiblical. What if there was a visitor there? I doubt they'd want to be a part of that environment.
@apostolic7rox one Church does not speak for all, that's like saying there was a sinner a Church and since they messed up once I'm done with them? All people can change and be forgiven
TH-cam apparently will not allow me to respond to this comment. I’ve tried five times and it keeps taking my response down. I suspect it is because it is in reference to cross-dressing.
Haha, needed this today💗. Literally, a few hours ago was informed by a family member that I was in a cult because I choose to wear dresses/skirts. Funny thing through, is the same family member shortly later told me she felt like I was a better person and more happy since going back to church and reconnecting with God. Friends and family can believe we are in a cult, but they cannot deny the change God has done in our lives for the better!!
But the skirt had nothing to do with it, it was the inner fruit and manifistation that was evident.
@@Dallendh Yes, we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8). However, after being saved if we allow God, He will start working on the inside of us. What is on the inside manifest itself outwardly. You are correct though it was not the skirt that did the change in my life but the power of God .
That's awesome! 😁
Pastor Urshan, I have never heard holiness taught with this much detail from the Old Testament. The clean and unclean animals really blew my mind. Once you broke that down, I was stunned at how much it made sense. Thank you for your study and interpreting of the word of God.
I’m glad it can be a help.🙂
Whenever conversations come up about outward appearance I often recall a comment that Pastor Johnny Godair made one Sunday night as he was reading the verses in the New Testament about the demoniac running naked among the tombs. He said this goes to show you that the more devils you have, the less clothes you have on. After he encountered Jesus who cast the devils out of him, the next scene we see is him fully clothed, in his right mind, and sitting at the feet of Jesus. Pastor Godair said this illustrates that the devil is trying to pull your clothes off but Jesus is trying to put them on. The love for Jesus and the gratitude for what He did was so dramatic that this man did not want to leave the presence of Jesus; the change in him was automatic.
Chapters:
00:00 Welcome And Introduction
02:00 Apostolic Distinctives: Modesty And Lifestyle Choices
03:42 Challenges Faced By Former Apostolic Groups
05:19 Addressing Misconceptions About Oneness Pentecostalism
07:13 Understanding Apostolic Teachings On Authority And Holiness
08:45 Understanding Religious Extremism And Its Impact
10:37 Remaining Faithful In Unjust Circumstances
12:46 The True Meaning Of Holiness In Christianity
14:18 The Debate On Holiness And Appearance
16:05 The Dangers Of Following Personal Desires
17:52 Inner Holiness Vs. Outward Appearance
19:34 Holiness Principles Of Clean And Unclean Animals
21:25 The Metaphor Of Unclean Animals And Honest Conversations
23:04 The Consequences Of Straying From Holiness
25:00 Interpreting Deuteronomy 22:5: Gender Distinction In Apostolic Faith
26:47 The Principle Of Distinction In Biblical Creation
28:24 Theological Distinctions Between Man And Woman In The Bible
30:05 Understanding Gender Roles In Biblical Texts
31:48 The Role Of Family Structure In Social Stability
33:30 Gender Distinction And Religious Interpretations
35:09 Biblical Perspectives On Gender Roles And Clothing
36:45 Deuteronomy 225 And The Moral Order
38:25 Distinctions In Ancient Clothing And Moral Implications
40:17 Understanding Holiness Through Conduct
I love listening to these dialogues! I've been apostolic for 30+ years and I love the distinction of genders in dress. I love that I can be in a crowded place far from home and recognize other apostolics by sight. I love feeling feminine in my long modest skirts. I loved it from day one, coming out of a religious upbringing that left one "to do that which was right in his own eyes" when it came to lifestyle and dress. The other two Abrahamic faiths have gender distinction in their orthodoxy. As was mentioned, this is foundational from creation. Even animals are in many cases distinguished in gender by outward appearance. When I dress in the morning it is my daily reminder to seek the Lord and walk in his will.
Went to a event years back. Saw an Apostolic family. First question I asked was “ Are you Pentecostals?” Yes was the answer. Next question, “Are you Apostolic ??” The answer was “Yes” My reply was “Praise the Lord “. We enjoyed a good conversation.
I never left the Movement. Never called our group a Church….but a movement.
@@buckeyewill2166 For the record. We must not mistake Islam as being Abrahamic, because the Word of God is God. John 1 KJV, but these are great points that you mention.
@steve.coulon9846 Point well taken.
Been serving the
Lord for 50 years Ilove our standards💜
Holiness is not only the inward manifesting itself outwardly in dress; it is in speech, conduct, maturation, etc., which has been addressed on Biblos before.
Well said. Clothing is a small part of a much greater whole.
If my husband likes when I wear red I’ll wear it everyday! When God has a “favorite “ I’ll wear it everyday! God loves Holiness … Amen!
I Love Biblos Network And First Pentecostal Church In Durham NC
In the short period time that I have been listening to the apostolic message I am learning more about the God of my dreams. If that means that I am becoming part of a "cult", then okay. The messages have brought me closer to Jesus.
Thank you for this podcast. I'm so thankful for the truth. I'm so thankful for the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm so thankful that Jesus Christ died for my wretched sins. I'm so thankful for the mercy of God.
Thank you for doing this podcast on this subject. It is needed! I love Jesus and Acts 2:38 -39 changed my life 🙌
It’s sad 😞 here in Louisiana we have so many church letting go of their outward Holiness .. they call it new age Pentecost.. when my husband and I was getting back in church we had to visit several to find one that still teaches holiness principles.. at one of the churches I was told,” that God spoke to one of the ladies and told her to cut her hair because it gave her headaches”. She told me! Her hair hit below her knees and now it stays at her shoulders. God spoke to her and then confirmed it.
A lot of times these church call themselves nondenominational. However now that is not the case. I love my outward show of inward change. It isn’t something that bothers me or that I fight. There is beauty in outward holiness and I hate so many are letting it go. 😢
It confuses backsliders too! One of the churches we were visiting I told the pastor people are doing things I did when I backslid . I called it backsliding and they are calling it liberation … We need good teachers to rise up and teach biblical truths that will open people’s eyes as to why holiness principles are so important..
Yes… nail polish ..fancy nails,,, etc
@@SharonHenscheid Or French nails.
I live in Louisiana too and wasn't raised Pentecostal, we thought no church in our area still taught like what is being spoke about here we found one! Our Pastor is sold out and loves the word of God and preaches and teaches all of this 🙏🙌🙏
I grew up in the Apostolic faith. I no longer identify myself in any “faith” but I am just a Jesus loving individual! I love God and I not only read the Bible but I am studying it so I can truly understand God’s heart. I was one of those hurt individuals. That hurt runs deep. Outward appearance and following the standards given to me by my pastors over the last 20+ years was stressed so hard that I had the belief that if I didn’t follow them all, I was lost. Hell bound. I had so much fear and anxiety. I believe in modesty. I believe in holiness. My problem lies with things like sleeve length, the length of a skirt, showing my shoulders, wedding rings, etc. my mindset was that if anyone I saw outside of these set standards meant they were not going to get into heaven. It was such a sad way to look at people. I am 31 years old and I struggle now because of how strong those standards were placed on me. If I wear loosely fitting pants that were made for women to wear (cut in a way that a man cannot fit) am I going to hell? I struggle with this.
I’ve only been Apostolic for 5 years and didn’t have any church experience growing up. I agree that it is sad seeing in public women wear pants, or people wearing wedding rings, or revealing clothing, colored hair, etc. you name it. Anything you consider a standard… we are not the judge and I think it’s a lot healthier to look at people and think they are learning about Jesus and drawing closer to God. We really don’t know if they just got the Holy Ghost and were baptized and might be in the early stages of having holiness appear on the outside. Idk if this response helps with the struggle you mentioned in your comment.
To answer your question about wearing pants fitted for women, I would say it’s about gender distinction. I’m not gonna condemn anyone for clothing because I think ultimately it goes back to the heart. There’s women in my church I know don’t wear skirts/dresses in public but always do to church… idk how to answer that and I’m not gonna condemn them either but the Bible is clear on gender distinctions and if you don’t wanna follow it… well that’s between you and God and forcing standards isn’t helping anyone either. I’ll be praying for you sis 🙏❤️ at the end of the day I think it’s about wanting to please God even if it’s not convenient or popular. One thing to note is all women wore skirts/dresses in the world 70 years ago as they did for hundreds of years. Now all of a sudden they wear yoga pants and sports bras out. Society has changed, not Gods word. And even if I’m wrong I’d rather error on the side of caution
Also, I just listened to part 2. Would love for you to listen to it and your feedback!
I am a firm believer that we need to let people get their own convictions, especially a new convert. 35 years ago when I first started going to church some ladies on my second visit told me I needed to wear dresses. I had such a rebellious attitude about it, I said Ok. And after they left my house (after a bible study) I went into my bedroom with a big old attitude and put on a dress, I ripped that dress off sooo quickly I may have tore it, lol. It was maybe two years later that God started dealing with me. I prayed about it an asked God how he wanted me to dress. An evangelist at another church I started attending said in the last days that the women were going to look like the men, and the men look like the women. That night I went home and threw all my pants in the trash. And btw. he didnt even mention that women should not wear pants. I wear dresses now because I know in my heart that is how God wants me to dress, not because I let somebody force that way of thinking on me. People dont want to ask God that because they truly dont want to hear what He has to say. God bless.
@@susanspatz9501 that’s amazing and I 100% agree that new converts need to get those convictions for themselves. God will deal with people about that stuff overtime and the church shouldn’t force it or try to rush the process. I also think there’s a balance of teaching holiness too but it’s got to be done with the right spirit and not be taught too early to new converts
@@nickkkk495 It took me many years in church to change my way of thinking about that type of thing. I truly believe that God wants us all to wear dresses, but like I said we all need to get our own convictions about it. I brought a friend/neighbor of mine to church, she went on a regular basis, one time when she stopped going I went to her house and seen that she was wearing pants, I had a big self righteous attitude about it and told her she needs to stop wearing pants. I think it was maybe the very next Sunday that our Pastor preached about that, he said very clearly that its not our business to tell others how to dress. Boy, did I get a wake-up call.
Praise the Lord!
Can’t wait for part 2!
1 John 2:27
“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
This is so good !!! Thank you 😎
From the abundance of the heart the mouth speak.
This is sooo good!!!
Thank God for holiness I love it I want to be more and more like Jesus ❤️ he said be ye holy as I am holy so with out it we shall not see God..
People are going to argue about this until Jesus returns. I believe if you truly fall in love with Jesus you have no issues with following holiness principles bc they draw you nearer to the one whom you claim to love the most. And certainly our heavenly Father has put us under our shepherds for good reason. If that shepherd is out of line with God. Pray about it and ask God to show you and your leader and have a good open honest conversation about it. Instead of bashing an entire group of people with zero attempts at clearing up misunderstanding and the reason we follow holiness the way we do.
Very well said.
For me it comes down to relationship with God if you know him then you won’t have a problem doing what he wants or asks of you. It comes to my mind when God Ask Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac.. he knew God was faithful..
Look at Oklahoma. There is practically a "Holiness Church" every mile. There is a holiness highway. They have the same standards as Apostolic yet no one says anything negative about them. I made friends at a local holiness church and it is almost exactly like The Apostolic church.
While many Apostolic folks seem like they have a need to apologize for holiness, the men and women at the holiness are unapologetically proud to be holiness and separated from worldliness . I love that. They don't watch tv but theybare allowed to have i phones and computers and video and some of the churches upload recorded services onto TH-cam tube.
I had a dream of 3 states North Carolina was one state, there was Ohio, and Utah. Im waiting for an answer from the Lord tonwhat it means. Iam so glad that thenscripture is someady to underatand via the HolyGhost
How do I accept holiness standards and not be critical of others. I mean wearing modesty is easy to comprehend. It's other specifics I have trouble finding scripture especially length of hair for men. I need to find the scripures for these things for if anyone asks me.
I recieved conviction for my hair length at home, shortly after I got saved, before I heard 1 sermon about it. The next conviction I experienced was rock and roll music. About 11 years later itbwas exposing hair on my chest.
We will die without pure doctrine. So looking forward to Part 2.
I attended a little apostolic church with about a range of 5-20 people at any given time and clothing got you behind the pulpit before a good prayer life. People would dress to please the pastor and at home kept their house filthy treated their kids and foster kids like tax write offs but in church they got the good seats It’s like a story a preacher told : a pastor was building a church and when the foundation was laid he called all his friends over and said look at this foundation. 1 year later he invites them back and says look at my foundation 5 yrs 10 yrs after 30 yrs the pastors dies and his friends show up and there is nothing but a foundation He had the foundation of Acts 2:38 no walls no roof no doors no windows just a foundation and that church had 5 members after 30 yrs That is a true description of that little church I attended There is a new pastor there now so we will see if he builds walls roof windows and doors. If people in a church look exactly the same you are not winning people who got caught up in the world. Tats battle scars maybe a earring maybe a lady wearing pants and cut hair
I understand. That’s a sad story. There should absolutely be folks coming in from all stages of their faith.
Modesty is beautiful in men and women in the church. I was drawn to the modesty when I came into truth! I have no problem with teaching women and men to wear modest apparel and the dress for a woman worn modesty is spot on. Where I struggle and have for years is in us men wearing the pants! I wish he had not interrupted you when you began talking on the robes! The original “ God garment” was a coat. I feel the men here in our culture has fallen short! We are grafted in the Hebrew vine. We should not follow cultural norms here. That’s a cop out to me. I love Biblos….. drink coffee from my Biblos cup daily. Blessings
19:18 I also believe that animals that only chew the kud(?) but don't have a split hoof only have it internally are unclean. Animals that have the split hoof but don't chew the kud only have it externally (pigs). You have to have it both internally and externally.
Question: where in the story of Adam and Eve does it show distinction between the covering for Adam and the covering for Eve?
There are apostolic churches now, that have made small groups play the series" The Chosen " and even after the alarm was sounded off about the main character "Jesus " had actually layed at the grave of an former Jesus movement guy, and prayed to the dead for answers and supposedly the church doors flung opened and an organ note played and he took it as a sign that he was to play the dead man's character in a movie about the dead guy. The Chosen was still made to be shown in homes and even at church. Scary so very scary.
Church people know not to mention "The Chosen" (which I have never seen and never would) or the involvement of sports around me. I don't cringe, make faces, or anything, they just know my stance that I don't agree with those forms of entertainment.
There has to be a standard of holiness (to some extent) being taught by the preacher or the people will lack conviction. In many charismatuc churches the people have trouble discerning conviction from condemnation. Some of those places have liberty for clothing but lack liberty in worship and don't allow for spontaneous moves of the spirit. They are only allowed to worship on Q when prompted by the preacher and spontaneous worship is often considered an interuption. ...and don't run the isles or they might sit you down and tell you you're out of order.
If I had to pick between liberty in attire and maximum liberty in worship, guess which one I'm going to pick.I also noticed many charismatic camps acn be very manipulative in other areas that don't have anything to do with how one dresses. Some are manipulative about tithes and offerings.
Praise Him, brother urshan. Through my studies. And internet dialogs with trini's is that their false prophet has made a 2nd gospel.
And they have actually said this to me, that there are 2 gospels, one for the Jew and 1 for the gentile. Which is a lie from the pit of Hell.
They believe where paul says in
Roman's 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
And by this, they swear a doctrine of truth. But we know that even the apostle Peter said in
2 Peter 3:15-16
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
We know all Gods word applies to all. There is only one church that belongs to Jesus. And that is the one that was birthed on the day of Pentecost.
Scripture calls those that swear by this doctrine are UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST.
This is what the Merriam Webster dictionary says about the word wrest.
1. to pull, force, or move by violent wringing or twisting movements
2. to gain with difficulty by or as if by force, violence, or determined labor.
I love the Apostolic doctrine it is of God and I praise my Lord and my God. And He alone is worthy of my worship and praise.
God bless brother.
If my husband likes when I wear red I’ll wear it everyday! When God has a “favorite “ I’ll wear it everyday! God loves Holiness … Amen!
If I concern myself with my own holiness and not others or others lack there of it’s part of holiness.
A God called Pastor has authority to address this issue and I can be concerned what’s asked of me but the rest I can’t be concerned with.
Jesus said from the abundance of the heart the mouth speakth. So every action that a man does it's already conceived in the heart. People will always leave their first love in the church as the saints in Ephesus. In the church there will be always people who envy and covet the things of this world
What are the writings referred to at the 31 minute mark?
Proverbs 28:26 he that trusteth in his own heart is a fool.
Question: how do you arrive at the comparison between holiness and the clean and unclean animals? It seems like a stretch to me. You could make that same point without making this comparison. Also, in the New Testament these become clean.
@TheBiblosNetwork your “they leave because they’ve been hurt” explanation won’t work in front of your maker.
The serpent knew as soon as Eve said "Neither shall ye touch it" that Eve did not know the Word of God, for God never said that they could not touch the fruit. There is some good old fashioned Exploring God's Word for ya! Enjoying the podcast!
Ephesians 8:2-9 is Acts 2:38,
Grace is what gets us to the cross where the blood can work in our lives it is that grace that Paul is talking about Ephesians in the church of Ephesus, it is that faith that when we step out that we are also saved by Faith that works is dead and that in fact doesn’t allow grace to work. Grace and Faith are a double sided coin Paul speaks of grace and James speaks of faith.
As a former United Penecostal and apostolic the importance of "looking" holy i.e. dresses, skirts, long hair, no make up etc…..took PRECEDENCE over incorporating the teachings of Jesus in our hearts. It is ALWAYS the outward appearance that is of UPMOST IMPORTANCE that even in the first few minutes of your video that you are speaking of! Unfortunately, the teaching of gossiping, arrogance, jealousies aren’t so important to push as you don’t wear those as OUTWARD APPEARANCE. An example of the OUTWARD APPEARANCE being most important was a young girl getting pregnant by a church leader and as her SIN was visible then of course she was shunned and sent off to a family in another city. Now as the SIN wasn’t visible on the male then he continued in his position. Again, many that come into a church it takes just a few seconds for the person (usually the female) to be sized up and judged by this "holiness" measurement. No, thank you! We walked away from this legalistic movement because despite your speaking of God’s love the ultimate measurement is based on whether you meet the OUTWARD APPEARANCE!
Yes unfortunately many do focus on it too much, the inside determines the outside and not the other way around. That being said, if there is chapter and verse for these teachings then they are true and it does no good to deny them and say "I'm free to do what I want". There are many things I don't agree with the church on, because as much as I have looked in the Bible I don't see reason for certain teachings. But be very careful about pushing back on things just for the sake of it, God didn't write every specific thing that He doesn't want us to do but there is very clear reasoning behind the majority of holiness teachings.
1 Corinthians 6:12 NKJV
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
If you are Holy on the inside it will show, and if you're unholy on the inside it'll show too. I don't comply with everything that the pastor might want, but if the Bible says it or lays out a principle concerning it, I'll do it.
Rejecting all outward holiness simply because a misguided person puts too much emphasis on it is like saying, “I’m gonna quit eating food because I know a few people who eat WAY too much!”
Can we (as fallible humans) be overzealous at times? Sure. Does it mean we should not concern ourselves with the outward appearance of our temple of God? Of course not.
If you study about the dress standards of the early church, they were much more strict than we are today.
I pray that your experience at church wouldn’t cause you to be hurt so badly that you throw out these very important principles of holiness. God bless!
I am part of an Apostolic church that does emphasize inner holiness as well as outward. And my pastor isn't the only one. It's hard to be accurate and make blanket statements at the same time. There are definitely good pastors that love God and preach/teach sound doctrine. God bless you 🙏
@@daltonjames8466where is a good place to study dress standards of the early church? I’ve been curious and wanting to look into it more
What scripture forbids facial hair on men?
It’s right next to the one that says “thou shalt not smoke weed”.🙂
@@pastorurshan did they confiscate Jesus’ weed before or after they plucked his beard?
They leave and lash out cuz of hurt feelings.
They could just go to the Lord to see how they could handle the hurt
Also, “denominal” is NOT a word that applies to churches. You mean “denominational”.
“Denominal” is a grammar term and means “derived from a noun”.
Ah! A gentleman AND a scholar!
I enjoy linguistic gamesmanship as much as the next man. Indulge me.
If we take a look beyond the cursory glance at Google we will find that denominal is an earlier form of denominative. In the context to which you refer (grammar) it does indeed mean “derived from a noun”.
I however am using it in its older form which means “ conferring or constituting a distinctive designation or name” which aligns with the actual word denomination. The word “denomination” is used to separate people into sects of religious order circa 1893 while the older usage is pre-1400.
Both usages arise from the Greek word for name “onoma “ which evolved into the Latin prefix de- “completely” and “nominare “ which means to name a people.
Though I didn’t intend to use it in the context you speak of, if it helps to avoid confusion, I’ll work to use the modern form you seem to like as opposed to the older form from which it springs.
Pants pertain to a Male. Even the restroom signage tells you this. In World War 2 times, females started wearing pants to fill the jobs of absent males. That doesn't make it right or justify it. Females should not be wearing pants.
Aside from that on a separate note, I wear what I call short pants in hot times. They are loose fitting pants that go below the knee. I would consider those that are snug fitting and above the knee as not dressing in moderation and I would not consider them as "short pants" but as something more like underwear. Going around in underwear is not dressing in moderation.
T.S. 16:45 You make light of what Scriptures say about being led by the Spirit because it is brought out by other churches and yet that is what the the Scriptures say. Infact, you say that we need to be controlled by the pulpit in these areas. You make fun of what it could be like if you let the saints go, but again that is what the scriptures tell us. Did the saint receive a different. or lesser Spirit than you? Paul is writing that the saint be governed by the Spirit. Gal. 5 put away the works of the flesh, and he names them. Now what is so hard to understand about that? Be led by the Spirit, and he wrote this to a church that was worse off than the Corinthians. You can tell by the way he addresses them and why? because they were wanting to be governed by the law/bondage and not by His Spirit. He even said, because he was so angry with them; "who hath bewitched you?..."
Our outward appearance is not righteousness itself; it's the outward growth of righteousness. Agreed - every decision we make is an outgrowth of God's Spirit at work in us.
However, based on your arguments it sounds like if one detaches himself from these specific holiness teachings he's lost truth altogether, and so to walk with Jesus a different way is to not really walk with Him. Are all sincere Christ-following people who don't look like you all not truly righteous? How do you account for the different standards in different churches in your movement? Rings, sleeve length, makeup, nail polish, even head coverings - there's variance in the application of all that.
If you couldn't tell, I'm speaking as one who has left the UPC (not at all hurt and grateful for my upbringing) and honestly come to different conclusions on these teachings. I walk daily with Jesus, read His Word, and have a community of believers around me seeking to grow God's kingdom and growing it - with fruit and love abounding more than I ever saw in my UPC churches.
The heart may be wicked and deceitful, but God can know it. Is that not what He sees when man looks on the outward? Does God not change our heart when He fills it? I understand my potential for depravity, and at the same time, God is making me to be more like Him.
I believe in the Apostolic doctrine as written in the word of God line upon line and precept upon precept.
We do have some teachings that are not bible nor something the Spirit has given us. Men of God were taught these things and they have locked their hearts on it and will say things about it and are dead wrong.
Beards- and I do not mean to criticize. I believe in outward holiness as the Bible teaches. But men are taught that to be beardless is Gods way. David and his men wore beards. The children of Ammon shaved their beards to shame them. The prophecy said they plucked the beard of Jesus the messiah. God gave facial hair to distinguish men from women. I am called to be an evangelist and a teacher. I have heard many pastors who are anointed men of God erroneously teach this.
Could this be ignored ? Yes. But my family has to travel the country for work. We have had to sit in assemblies hungry for God. Doing the work of God even in unfamilar cities. Walking with God in consecration. But the Pastor stands behind the pulpit and says I believe men should be clean shaven every day.
There is NO biblical mandate for women to wear dresses. It is a decision made by Pastors in the West based on cultural norms.
At most a Church leader could say “we feel this is honoring to God, and help maintain a distinction between the sexes”.
They cannot and absolutely should not say this is God’s commandment and you are sinning if you don’t do this.
they didn't call it a sin he says at the beginning of the video, what about uncut hair for women?
They may not have but might as well have. @@MrJimgogo
I know someone who's church calls out men for not wearing white shirts. Literally said, "If you're wearing a pink shirt, you're going to hell." How unbiblical. What if there was a visitor there? I doubt they'd want to be a part of that environment.
@apostolic7rox one Church does not speak for all, that's like saying there was a sinner a Church and since they messed up once I'm done with them? All people can change and be forgiven
If anyone is so worried about wearing sex designed for the opposite sex why do women wear high heels? High heels were originally for men.
TH-cam apparently will not allow me to respond to this comment. I’ve tried five times and it keeps taking my response down.
I suspect it is because it is in reference to cross-dressing.
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